comments_imageCOMMENTS: 69

Facebook and MySpace Users Are Clearly Divided Along Class Lines

The inequalities and divisions in society have emerged online in social networks despite the belief that everyone is connected by the Internet.
September 3, 2009  |  
 
 
 
LIKE THIS ARTICLE ?
Join our mailing list:

Sign up to stay up to date on the latest headlines via email.

 
 
Advertisement
 

This talk was written for a specific audience -- the attendees of the Personal Democracy Forum, an annual conference on innovations in social networking, technology and politics. This audience is primarily American, primarily liberal-leaning, primarily white and primarily involved professionally in politics in one way or another. Keep this audience in mind when I'm talking about "we" here.

Good morning!

Many of us in this room have had our lives transformed by technology. Some of us have grown up with tech, while others have embraced it as adults. Many of us have become enamored with tech and its transformative potential. And because of this, many of us have become technology advocates. We've worked our way into different institutions, preaching about new opportunities introduced because of the Internet.

Furthermore, many in this room have been active in transforming politics through technology. We've leveraged technology for fundraising and getting out the vote. We could go on and on about political events that have been shaped by technology, from the Obama campaign to the post-election Iranian protests.

All of this is brilliant and powerful, exciting and motivating. But I'm also worried. I'm worried about the rhetoric we use when we talk about technology.

Given what we've experienced and what we witness today, we tend to believe that these technologies are the great equalizers, that they can help anyone participate, that the technologies in and of themselves can revitalize democracy.

In other words, we tend to believe in a certain utopian myth of the Internet as the savior. What if this weren't true?

There's nothing more tricky than standing up in front of a room full of people passionate about transforming society at a conference on big ideas and asking you to do a privilege check, but I'm going to do so anyhow because I'm a masochist.

More acutely, I think that we need to unpack what's happening with technology in order to productively engage with the development of technology. You need to understand the sticking points in order to move the needle in the right direction.

I want to ask a favor here today. I want you to step away from the technohyperbole for just a moment and think about issues of inequality and social stratification with me. I want you to think about the ways in which technology is not equally available or equally transformative.

For decades, we've assumed that inequality in relation to technology has everything to do with "access" and that if we fix the access problem, all will be fine. This is the grand narrative of concepts like the "digital divide."

Yet, increasingly, we're seeing people with similar levels of access engage in fundamentally different ways. And we're seeing a social media landscape where participation "choice" leads to a digital reproduction of social divisions. This is most salient in the States, which is intentionally the focus of my talk here today.

MySpace versus Facebook

Rather than staying in land of abstract, let's go concrete. To do so, let's deal directly with a very specific case study: MySpace versus Facebook.

How many of you currently use Facebook? [90 percent-plus of the audience raises their hands.] How many of you currently use MySpace? [A few lone figures raise their hands.] Look around.

Two weeks ago, comScore released numbers showing that Facebook and MySpace were neck-and-neck in terms of unique user visits in the U.S. The meta-narrative was that Facebook was winning in the States, and that MySpace was dying.

I would argue that the numbers can be read differently. The numbers show that MySpace has neither grown nor faded in the last year, while Facebook has expanded rapidly and has finally reached the same size.

Of course, this is not to say that Facebook isn't doing tremendously. In a business environment where monetization is shaky, the only definition of success is "growth." Given that, it's reasonable to see Facebook as more successful than MySpace this year.

But we still need to account for the fact that as many people visit MySpace as Facebook and that, as exemplified by the people in this room, that's not because there's a complete overlap of users. Even if you think that Facebook is winning the game, we need to account for the fact that 70 million people in the U.S. visited MySpace. That's not small potatoes.

As is the case in many situations, teenagers are a darn good indicator of broader trends.

I'm an ethnographer. For the last four years, I've been traveling the United States, talking to American teenagers about their use of social media. During the 2006-2007 school year, I started noticing a trend.

In each school, in each part of the country, there were teens who opted for MySpace and teens who opted for Facebook. (There were also plenty of teens who used both.) At the beginning of the school year, teens were asking, "Are you on MySpace? Yes or No?" At the end of the school year, the question had transformed to "MySpace or Facebook?"

Given this transformation, I started analyzing my data to understand the transition. I also went back into the field to specifically talk to teens about the tensions between MySpace and Facebook. What follows are quotes from my fieldwork.


danah boyd is a social media researcher at Microsoft Research New England and a is fellow at Harvard Law School's Berkman Center for Internet and Society.

To follow her work and findings, go to:

Email
Print
Share
Post on reddit
Post on stumbleupon
Post on facebook
Post on digg
Post on twitter
Post on delicious
LIKED THIS ARTICLE? JOIN OUR EMAIL LIST
Stay up to date with the latest AlterNet headlines via email
See more stories tagged with: class, speech, inequality, myspace, facebook, social networks, dana boyd


Comments are closed-

It's easy to blame the Boomers and Gen X for becoming materialistic snobs, but the hyper-
Posted by: and_abottleofrum on Sep 3, 2009 12:37 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
privileged cohort of Gen Y, the most spoiled group in world history, stands to become even worse. These kids will be dangerous to the ideals of equality, even if some of them speak in the language of "social progress."

Were it up to me they'd be subjected to a dictatorship of the proletariat, relegated to virtual slave status, to teach them about life at the bottom. This is true justice: the high must be made low and the low must be made high.

Beware the spoiled snots among the younger generation. It's a very divided generation, so there are many good working-class kids among it. But the spoiled ones are more spoiled than ever before.

They may prove to be the worst generation of leaders ever produced unless they are barred from power by sociopolitical upheaval.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» So, you're really stupid. Posted by: leTerrassier
» Ah - Kids these days Posted by: UnEasyOne

Comments are closed-

Also it's interesting to see how racism persists among the privileged kids.
Posted by: and_abottleofrum on Sep 3, 2009 12:54 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The rhetoric usually emphasizes the decline of racism among the younger generation, but the quotes from kids mentioned in this article show the desire of many of the snot children to differentiate themselves from what which is considered ghetto (the snobs of Gen Y have made "ghetto" an adjective, by the way).

Having been reared in post-Reagan Darwinistic, status-obsessed culture, these spoiled fuckwits have all kinds of psychological complexes related to their status insecurities and their pounding desire to be "better" than others. These kids are unfit to lead in the future.

The working class of the younger generation should be the cohort that ascends to power in due time. They possess the realism, and the virtues of hard work, that define true leaders. They are the hope of the future. The spoiled shitheads are the shame of our society.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Moreover it's amazing anyone could be so dumb to believe the internet would
Posted by: and_abottleofrum on Sep 3, 2009 1:20 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
eliminate haughty social barriers that have existed for millennia. These techno-utopians need basic education in real life, rather than living in a cocoon of rarefied abstractions. It's entertaining to look back at how idiotic these scientific triumphalists have been regarding the supposed panacea effects of the internet when it comes to dissolving social and geographic barriers.

People like to associate with their own. Nothing will change this. What needs to change is the people in power, so that the producers, the blue-collar workers, hold all power in society. They do all the useful work, so they must have all authority.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

WHITE PRIVILEGE
Posted by: dave1616 on Sep 3, 2009 3:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yeeessss ... Very Gooood Childrens .

Now ... We've ALL had our naps , and milk - break is over ... Let's open our Crayon boxes now ...

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Ugh, not this Facebook vs Myspace thing again.
Posted by: esuriospiritus on Sep 3, 2009 4:27 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article is filled with anecdotal data. Only ghetto people use Myspace? Hey, whatever makes you and your colleagues feel better. I used both websites moderately in the past (2006-ish and prior) and did not notice any such trend. If you want to come back with some real statistical data, be my guest, but until then, try not to paint such broad statements about large groups of people whom you don't even know based on what a bunch of kids say.

For the record, I do not currently maintain a profile on any social networking site, so don't look at my above paragraph as trying to defend Myspace, because I happen to believe that all social networks are for people who are either completely self-absorbed or highly self-conscious and in need of validation from others and would never advocate one over the other.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Clearly divided by class?
Posted by: ismac76 on Sep 3, 2009 6:18 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hmmmm. that seems a bit of a stretch.

There was one casual remark that suggested that. Myspace and Facebook were both designed by white guys who are probably pretty well off at this point regardless of whether they went to an ivy league school or not. Myspace was the first social networking site, but it was much more music orientated. Myspace is useful for finding out when a performer or an act is on tour, or releases new material without having to look it up, kind of a one stop shop for that kind of stuff. And, then there is self promotion, alot of people with demos and what not set up sites so they could have a local show and people had the option of listening to them based on the music content of their myspace they had posted

I used to be on both and then decided to go with just facebook mostly because news corp. bought myspace out and I was loath to think of my blogs and other personal info becoming their intellectual property, or even a single uptick contributing to their advertising revenue. It kind of feels more like a popularity contest too with the top friends and the friend generators, the time people spend tweaking their layout.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

You must be joking?!
Posted by: theScale on Sep 3, 2009 7:25 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What is going on at AlterNet. Joke of an article, really. It's MySpace and Facebook!! Get over it!!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: You must be joking?! Posted by: mercianomad

Comments are closed-

Hate Murdoch, Prefer Myspace
Posted by: Gravitas on Sep 3, 2009 7:41 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I hate Murdoch who I understand owns Myspace. But I still prefer it over facebook. Facebook is boring! I like the graphics. Instead of shopping for consumer goods, when I get the urge I can just find some cute comments and save myself money. And I like changing my profile seasonally. Much easier than redecorating!

www.myspace.com/vortexresister113

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Freedom isn't enough for some liberals
Posted by: rational_moderate on Sep 3, 2009 7:58 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I should start out by saying I mostly identify with the label "liberal", at least relative to the US populace.

Anyone can freely join either of these networks, and pretty much everybody knows about both of them.

And surprise, people join networks where their friends and colleagues are!

Leave it up to guilty liberals to turn this into a racism thing, and of course the "blame" is always pointed towards the rich, white people. In this context, one could just as well argue that the people who opt for MySpace are the racist, elitists ("street cred" and all that kind of crap).

There's plenty of real oppression dealt out by governments and corporations, why do we concern ourselves with arenas where there is none.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Simple
Posted by: QQOblivion on Sep 3, 2009 8:10 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's simple really. The REALLY cool kids don't use either Facebook or Myspace.

They have a life, and are too smart to post their info for phishers to steal.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Simple Posted by: leTerrassier
» RE: Simple Posted by: charles000

Comments are closed-

Advertising & celebrity fanaticism killed Myspace for me
Posted by: tlCampbell on Sep 3, 2009 8:14 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm an adult who at one point had both a Myspace and Facebook account for keeping in touch with friends and family. I opted to drop Myspace due to its ridiculous advertising that targeted a younger audience and was just downright obnoxious in content.

Facebook has advertising but nothing compared to the nonsense at Myspace.

This may account for some of division lines talked about, possibly more so with older users. Some people really would like to network without the hype and some are not as tolerant of it as others.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Modern dialogue
Posted by: Col. Jackleg on Sep 3, 2009 8:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
MySpace, Facebook, Twitter and every gimmick that espouses text-messaging may well account for the stupidity level in USA, Inc. that has seen us Tarped into oblivion. There is an old adage in this capitalist sinkhole and it goes like this: "sell or be sold!" The marketing of the entire genre of modern communication has made the lemmings believe that a few hundred bucks per month is a good idea to promote bullshit, the one product that withstands all economic disasters. P.T. Barnum nailed it years ago with his prophetic: "there's a sucker born every minute and two to take his money." As the mindless rove about the desolation that is USA, Inc., let us all hook onto this marvelous technology and remind ourselves and the world that "we are #1." Careful now Colonel, you are acting like a "c..."

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Quantitative Data
Posted by: radiofreestl on Sep 3, 2009 8:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"If you want to come back with some real statistical data, be my guest, but until then, try not to paint such broad statements about large groups of people whom you don't even know based on what a bunch of kids say."

See here and here.

(I do think the criticism is a bit disingenuous. Qualitative research does have a place in inquiry, and danah has spent years traveling across the country talking to teens. Even if the perception of class division exists, the consequences of this division are real.)

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Thank you for this. Posted by: esuriospiritus
» RE: Quantitative Data Posted by: YogiBear

Comments are closed-

Equal opportunity social notworking.
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Sep 3, 2009 8:56 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Conquering real life > Internet.Bob post something cool on my 'wall'.

If you choose to make Facebook your platform for civic activity, you are implicitly suggesting that a specific class of people is more worth your time and attention than others.

Of course, as with many, many, many other decisions regarding free association.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Inanity Overkill
Posted by: MT512 on Sep 3, 2009 9:17 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think this article was about 500,000 words too long, and like some other posters it seems to be making a mountain of a molehill, though granted, its tone isn't exactly hysterical and panicked.

I cannot understand the mass appeal of either site. It's been nice sort of reconnecting to people from ages past, but I don't get the people who LIVE on them. "Picking up Junior from soccer practice." "Going down the hall for coffee." Also they are ugly as sin and poorly organized. Some of it is my ignorance and a lack of motivation to figure it all out, but they're confusing and cluttered. The games and endless requests and stupid surveys are childish and annoying. "What flavor of jelly bean are you?" "What kind of bacteriophage are you?" "What political assassination are you?"

Oh, the inanity!

I don't really even get how there is "the other" on either site. Do most users actually just browse around strangers' pages? Why would you really care? So I've never gotten an impression of MySpace being "for" racial minorities and FaceBook being "for" whites. But then, I don't live on those sites.

It's all annoying bullshit to me and I spend the barest minimum on either site, just because I have friends who use them.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Questioning motivations rather than facts...
Posted by: poetac on Sep 3, 2009 9:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've been using the internet since 1985 as part of my work. I have also been using the web, primarily for information and to some extent for shopping, since the early 1990s. I was on MySpace first because I thought social networking was interesting and because I have some younger (thirty-something) friends with bands who had pages they use for promotion, as the author says. From early on I found the pages with elaborate "wallpaper" extremely irritating and hard to read, as also the fact that often when one navigates to a page, an mp3 file is opened and starts playing automatically. And then there were the animated ads...

All in all I found MySpace, as an older person, teeth-gratingly unpleasant to use or explore beyond the sites of my friends. However, as the author argues, I finally left MySpace because very few people I knew were on there.

When I joined Facebook, which I did to make contact with former students and colleagues after the death of my small alternative college in early 2008, I quickly encountered not only many of them but also relatives and old friends. But the biggest surprise was all the political pages and sites: labor, environmental, and so forth. I am now in networks with ex-Muslim or liberal Muslim opponents of sharia law, with Iranian leftists and other secularist oppositionists, with Canadian and British labor activists, with groups trying to push through health-care reform, and so forth--and with black intellectuals, activists, and political figures across the country. For someone in his fifties like me, the clean layout of Facebook (despite minor annoyances in the new design) is hugely easier to use. So yes, I think "class" enters the picture in this divide, and I completely agree that race is also likely a factor. But I also think that age and education are probably more determinant. This is probably reinforced by the fact that older less-educated people are less likely to be highly computer-literate because unlike their kids they did not grow up with the internet and the web.

Incidentally, "ghetto" as an adjective was not dreamed up by privileged white kids so far as I know--and I live in Oakland, one of the blackest cities in America north of the Mason-Dixon line. "Ghetto" as a modifier has been around for a decade and I have heard black kids use it as well as white (or Asian, for that matter; Southeast Asian second-gen teens in East Oaktown call each other "nigga" just like the black and latino kids do)--as in "Man, don't be pullin that ghetto-ass shit around here!"

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

US is segregating into a leader class and a loser class.
Posted by: billwald on Sep 3, 2009 9:55 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Race" has become an euphemism "African-American," which has become a self designated classification. Half the people who claim minority status as "black" are, in fact, and in practice, white trash.

Young people are self-segregating on the basis of ambition, IQ, and education, not race, religion, and ethnic origin. The middle class will disappear and we will end up with a 19th century or earlier social system.

The good thing is that, thanks to increased productivity, the nature of poverty has changed. People on welfare now have every sort of consumer good that the rich people have. The BIG difference is that rich people don't stand in lines to get their stuff.

The new poverty class will be kept under control with cheapfast food, cheap clothing, cheap housing, cheap booze and the sports channel . . . shades of 1st century Rome.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

A Question For Those Who Question The Existence Of Racism In Their Own Lives
Posted by: desidid on Sep 3, 2009 10:20 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How many white liberals on this line can honestly say that when they spend time with friends who are black, that where they go and who is there isn't determined by who the dominant group is? I have 3 white god children, I love them and their parents, but if we are spending time together it is more likely that I'm in the minority than they are. Occassionally that is reversed but by and large my discomfort is not considered. Now they are good people who understand racism, as a concept, but not in how it plays out in our personal relationship. I challenge each of you to think back on these friendships and honestly discuss how often you've been willing to put yourselves in an uncomfortable situation, because it is something your "black" friend wants to do? Ask yourselves how often you assume that your friend is comfortable because you are.

I grew up in white middle-class neighborhoods all my life and I can't think of a time when my friends asked if I was comfortable being either the only black person or the other black person. If you can see yourself in what I'm saying, ask yourself who is the real friend the person willing to be uncomfortable for you or you. Then ask yourself why you would never consider how they might feel.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Nice to see this article
Posted by: JBravoEcho11 on Sep 3, 2009 10:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I started college with the beginning of facebook. My entering class was the beginning of the divide. The ones who went to good schools got on first. So it was basically me and my honors friends on facebook.

Myspace for the college-less, lesser colleges, and old people.

As it progressed and other colleges got added the trend remained the same with pretty much the same segment remaining on facebook with a few more friends here and there.

Myspace was still for the college-less basically high schoolers and pervs looking for high schoolers. And then celebrities that realized how "cool" myspace was (comedians and bands)

Now that high schoolers can get on facebook still uses the system of networks to keep people at bay. I open myself to my college but I don't have to let anyone who didn't go to my university see my profile. The stratification remains. Whereas on myspace, any creep can still see my stuff (or now I guess no one can but what's the point in that).

Although facebook has completely opened up there it's still not a free-for-all like myspace is. That is the divide between the two networks. Initial perception and format.

Also with myspace the loading times were so dumb. I hated having to surf peoples pages with my comp on mute in case anyone had any stupid music.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Here's a marketing...
Posted by: jzelensk on Sep 3, 2009 10:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
angle on this that appeared back in the late 1990's before either MySpace or FaceBook existed. In his article:

"Breaking up America: the Dark Side of Target Marketing"

author Joseph Turow, writing in AMERICAN DEMOGRAPHICS Magazine (Nov. 1997 issue), argued that the successful refinement of target marketing was well on the way to segmenting media itself with the result that all of the stimuli that Americans were exposed to, whether entertainment or commercial in nature, were tearing us apart as a nation. People have long since stopped mingling along all kinds of lines - not just their hobbies and the types of things that entertain them (stock car racing or opera).

But further, this segmenting of us as a people was beginning to creep into politics as well. The meta-messsage of brilliant target marketing is now not only "buy our products," it is "those other folks (unlike you) just aren't cool," or worse, are evil. Today, isn't that exactly what the meta message is? Haven't the very media outlets themselves ceased being general windows on America, and become pipelines for only one line or worldview? So far Turow has hit the nail on the head in making the connection between commercial target marketing and, as he says, the "breaking up of America." This development should be flashing lights before our eyes, but we seem to be blind to it.

His article is worth the read. I think that it aligns well with Danah Boyd's column.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

We may not ever achieve economic equality but we can fight for economic justice like vigilantes.
Posted by: maxpayne on Sep 3, 2009 12:54 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And no guns are needed here.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Interesting piece.... wish it was LONGER
Posted by: DaBear on Sep 3, 2009 12:55 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Seriously... I wanted to see the data, the methodology, the experience danah had doing this study. I get that she stacked the support with quotes to fit the premise, but I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt that there's some basis for it that just wouldn't fit in the talk/presentation.

I'm on FB because my SIL "made me." Ironically she's never on it now. Go figure. She won't come to my house to visit because we live "ghetto" compared to her (it's a guess but the odd behavior now compared to when we had the crappy condo in the white-bread yuppity part of our exurban hellhole seems to support the inference).

I was on MySpace in the early days but it was such a sluggish interface I was driven half insane by the stoopid of it all. The music sharing thing was fun until that got modified for the anti-pirate freakazoids' tastes. I hear from the kids there are workarounds but to be honest I'm on Alternet too much to waste time on bullshit social networks with crappy interfaces.

oh the irony

FB works because family's on it and the bulk of 'em are on the other side of the continent. HS buds and college compadres as well. You go where people are if you wanna shoot the shit.

I hear from my oldest kid all the time about FB and how her friends are on it--OK I had no idea FB is open to HS kids but middle school kids?! WTF? You can't sign a god damned TOS if you're a minor so how is that done exactly? That's been my ace-in-the-hole for sayin' no to her all this time. Damnable FB. Anyone explain that to me? Cuz I don't get that at all. You gotta be able to agree to be able to use something that has legal implications and constraints. How is this set-aside by FB?

But yeah, the context of FB in her school and the crowd I wish to hell she'd get away from (but that's the honors and college-prep track for ya'... dominated by owning classholes) is pretty damned condescending about FB over MS. OTOH that's kids sometimes too, they have pretty one-dimensional thinking until they're in their late teens. Imperial Consciousness before they get to Socialized Consciousness and all that. Of course the other aspect of that is the owning-class conservative USD that dictates policy and who only dropped DARE due to budget cuts (never mind the monumental evidence that innoculation schemes are bullshit). These grownups without a clue hold regular seminars for parents and kids about every terror under the sun just waiting to gut their little ones and sell them to Africa or some "horrible" place. Jeebus. The internet is a subject of pure holy terror for these people. So if FB has a perception of safety than yeah, one could reasonably infer that's what's behind the FB preference among heavily programmed school kids.

I like this piece though. It's interesting stuff.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

It is not society but knowledge that is critical
Posted by: freedem on Sep 3, 2009 1:13 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Back before Aol was "all you can eat" that divide was rising. Compuserve was all formal and business and Aol was all about social connections and chat rooms.I had accounts at both trying to stay under the time limits.

Then AOL did as everyone should have and went "All you Can Eat". Before the week was out the weak were out, Aol bought Compuserve in an effort to keep the difference, but got only (needed) computer infrastructure, as nothing else was worth much. Aol sought to monetize what it had given for free, and discovered that the huge influx that had come in went out just as quickly.

But what it brings most is not social mobility as much as information mobility and comment mobility. Only in the Internet is there wide access to information, very low cost to starting your own press, and the ability to have two way conversations with Power, and allow others to see and chime in on that conversation.

The last time there was this much change in information mobility was with the printing press, though there were several smaller blips. What is missing from the analysis is who and what is driving the Facebook/Myspace divide. At the heart of Myspace is Rupert Murdoch, who both knows his audience, and how to manipulate them. And I see that rather than a cultural divide as what is offsetting.

There is an intellectual divide of who is still conned and who is not that has a class aspect to it, just as the tech/financial divide still makes some folk unable to have the time or energy to spend learning even how to learn, or thinking in nuances.

All this is not a barrier to any who would like to overcome those limitations or at least less a barrier than it used to be and our most recent Supreme Court Justice is an example, but that is now more easy if there is access to a computer at all.

Of greater concern is those with little or no access, as theirs indeed becomes another universe, and a separate reality. Even across social divides awareness of the blatantly obvious can travel, but what is not seen is not obvious.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

The nature of friendship
Posted by: YogiBear on Sep 3, 2009 2:21 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I chose Facebook for it's ease of use. I created a MySpace page years ago but quickly gave it up becuse it was too easy for spammers to become your "friend." People I know on MySpace use it to sell their music or for other business; F-book users with a cause or business are more easily separated out. You can become a fan or join their group, but you aren't "freinds" with their business as if it's the same thing.

Plus 90 percent of MySpace wallpapers drove me crazy.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: The nature of friendship Posted by: YogiBear

Comments are closed-

Design differences between Myspace and Facebook
Posted by: gGreen on Sep 3, 2009 11:17 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The design differences between Myspace and facebook attract different people.

On facebook, people use their actual names. On myspace, this is impossible, since somebody with your same name has probably already claimed your name. This leaves users of myspace choosing names that are arcane, like jHOnathan125wizard.

The scandals that hit myspace, from the abductions to the fleeing to foreign countries, are designed out of facebook. Facebook requires users to actively exchange names and accept each other, while myspace allows users to passively let anybody read their pages.

The stratification between myspace and facebook is like the stratification between Lexuses and Pimpmobiles, a cultural example of the effects of the terrible injustice that has been happening for hundreds of years.

If John Wilkes Booth had failed at assassinating Abraham Lincoln like Booth's co conspirators, racicism in the south would be less severe. It is amazing that a primative deringer pistol is affecting 21st century networks and their use.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Watch out! The political correctness thought police are coming to a scoial network near you!!!
Posted by: charles000 on Sep 6, 2009 10:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Watch out! The political correctness thought police are coming to a social network near you!!!

OK, all kidding aside, this has got to be the silliest, desperate attempt to justify article space on Alternet I've ever seen.

C'mon Alternet, surely you can do better than this.

" We desperately need to address issues of access and media . . . "

I get the passion and the way over the top desperate need to invent a cause to rally around and feel self important about, but really, I've seen better, more relevant material come out of Berkeley High School students.

I should point out at this juncture that I've been a Berkeley resident (and former local student) for 30+ years.

"While we've made tremendous strides in certain battles, the war is not over . . . "


No, maybe "the war" isn't over, but perhaps actual intelligent thought and genuine critical thinking might be.

My parting thought for the author of this missive would be the following -

If mom and dad paid for your college education, and this is the result, they might have legitimate grounds for demanding a refund.

Alternet, please get better material for future publication.

Of course, there is another viewpoint for consideration here . . .

The potential for comedy skit material in this meandering diatribe is endless.

I don't think a single hackneyed cliche' has been missed, and believe me, I've heard them all.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

So what?
Posted by: hackbut on Sep 6, 2009 8:26 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People will always congregate with their peers for probably the same reason the author congregates with her peers - mutual interest, so this was just a lot of wind.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Someone 'splain to me....
Posted by: ohb0b on Sep 6, 2009 9:33 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm not a Facebook, Twitter, or MySpace user, I find no compelling ned to constantly tell everyone what I'm doing, plus I wonder how some of these folks get through job interviews if the employer goes to their pages.

I didn't have the time or inclination to slog through the entire article. (I wish the author would have used the "five w's" of journalism in the first paragraph.)

My question is:
Which one is supposedly high class and which one is low class?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

tiffany jewelry
Posted by: lily234 on Sep 24, 2009 2:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you want to get a piece of tiffany jewelry in silver as
tiffany bracelet,
tiffany bangle or

tiffany pendant,you can choose www.tiffanyonlinestore.us. Here you can get any kinds of jewelry that you want.The
tiffany bangles,
tiffany bracelets,
tiffany pendants and other jewelry from this website are with high-quality.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

tiffany jewelry
Posted by: lily234 on Sep 24, 2009 2:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you want to get a piece of tiffany jewelry in silver as
tiffany bracelet,
tiffany bangle or

tiffany pendant,you can choose www.tiffanyonlinestore.us. Here you can get any kinds of jewelry that you want.The
tiffany bangles,
tiffany bracelets,
tiffany pendants and other jewelry from this website are with high-quality.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

tiffany jewelry
Posted by: lily234 on Sep 24, 2009 2:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you want to get a piece of tiffany jewelry in silver as
tiffany bracelet,
tiffany bangle or

tiffany pendant,you can choose www.tiffanyonlinestore.us. Here you can get any kinds of jewelry that you want.The
tiffany bangles,
tiffany bracelets,
tiffany pendants and other jewelry from this website are with high-quality.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

tiffany jewelry
Posted by: lily234 on Sep 24, 2009 2:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you want to get a piece of tiffany jewelry in silver as
tiffany bracelet,
tiffany bangle or

tiffany pendant,you can choose www.tiffanyonlinestore.us. Here you can get any kinds of jewelry that you want.The
tiffany bangles,
tiffany bracelets,
tiffany pendants and other jewelry from this website are with high-quality.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Alternet Comments:

Comments are closed-

It's easy to blame the Boomers and Gen X for becoming materialistic snobs, but the hyper-
Posted by: and_abottleofrum on Sep 3, 2009 12:37 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
privileged cohort of Gen Y, the most spoiled group in world history, stands to become even worse. These kids will be dangerous to the ideals of equality, even if some of them speak in the language of "social progress."

Were it up to me they'd be subjected to a dictatorship of the proletariat, relegated to virtual slave status, to teach them about life at the bottom. This is true justice: the high must be made low and the low must be made high.

Beware the spoiled snots among the younger generation. It's a very divided generation, so there are many good working-class kids among it. But the spoiled ones are more spoiled than ever before.

They may prove to be the worst generation of leaders ever produced unless they are barred from power by sociopolitical upheaval.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» So, you're really stupid. Posted by: leTerrassier
» Ah - Kids these days Posted by: UnEasyOne

Comments are closed-

Also it's interesting to see how racism persists among the privileged kids.
Posted by: and_abottleofrum on Sep 3, 2009 12:54 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The rhetoric usually emphasizes the decline of racism among the younger generation, but the quotes from kids mentioned in this article show the desire of many of the snot children to differentiate themselves from what which is considered ghetto (the snobs of Gen Y have made "ghetto" an adjective, by the way).

Having been reared in post-Reagan Darwinistic, status-obsessed culture, these spoiled fuckwits have all kinds of psychological complexes related to their status insecurities and their pounding desire to be "better" than others. These kids are unfit to lead in the future.

The working class of the younger generation should be the cohort that ascends to power in due time. They possess the realism, and the virtues of hard work, that define true leaders. They are the hope of the future. The spoiled shitheads are the shame of our society.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Moreover it's amazing anyone could be so dumb to believe the internet would
Posted by: and_abottleofrum on Sep 3, 2009 1:20 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
eliminate haughty social barriers that have existed for millennia. These techno-utopians need basic education in real life, rather than living in a cocoon of rarefied abstractions. It's entertaining to look back at how idiotic these scientific triumphalists have been regarding the supposed panacea effects of the internet when it comes to dissolving social and geographic barriers.

People like to associate with their own. Nothing will change this. What needs to change is the people in power, so that the producers, the blue-collar workers, hold all power in society. They do all the useful work, so they must have all authority.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

WHITE PRIVILEGE
Posted by: dave1616 on Sep 3, 2009 3:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yeeessss ... Very Gooood Childrens .

Now ... We've ALL had our naps , and milk - break is over ... Let's open our Crayon boxes now ...

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Ugh, not this Facebook vs Myspace thing again.
Posted by: esuriospiritus on Sep 3, 2009 4:27 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article is filled with anecdotal data. Only ghetto people use Myspace? Hey, whatever makes you and your colleagues feel better. I used both websites moderately in the past (2006-ish and prior) and did not notice any such trend. If you want to come back with some real statistical data, be my guest, but until then, try not to paint such broad statements about large groups of people whom you don't even know based on what a bunch of kids say.

For the record, I do not currently maintain a profile on any social networking site, so don't look at my above paragraph as trying to defend Myspace, because I happen to believe that all social networks are for people who are either completely self-absorbed or highly self-conscious and in need of validation from others and would never advocate one over the other.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Clearly divided by class?
Posted by: ismac76 on Sep 3, 2009 6:18 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hmmmm. that seems a bit of a stretch.

There was one casual remark that suggested that. Myspace and Facebook were both designed by white guys who are probably pretty well off at this point regardless of whether they went to an ivy league school or not. Myspace was the first social networking site, but it was much more music orientated. Myspace is useful for finding out when a performer or an act is on tour, or releases new material without having to look it up, kind of a one stop shop for that kind of stuff. And, then there is self promotion, alot of people with demos and what not set up sites so they could have a local show and people had the option of listening to them based on the music content of their myspace they had posted

I used to be on both and then decided to go with just facebook mostly because news corp. bought myspace out and I was loath to think of my blogs and other personal info becoming their intellectual property, or even a single uptick contributing to their advertising revenue. It kind of feels more like a popularity contest too with the top friends and the friend generators, the time people spend tweaking their layout.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

You must be joking?!
Posted by: theScale on Sep 3, 2009 7:25 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What is going on at AlterNet. Joke of an article, really. It's MySpace and Facebook!! Get over it!!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: You must be joking?! Posted by: mercianomad

Comments are closed-

Hate Murdoch, Prefer Myspace
Posted by: Gravitas on Sep 3, 2009 7:41 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I hate Murdoch who I understand owns Myspace. But I still prefer it over facebook. Facebook is boring! I like the graphics. Instead of shopping for consumer goods, when I get the urge I can just find some cute comments and save myself money. And I like changing my profile seasonally. Much easier than redecorating!

www.myspace.com/vortexresister113

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Freedom isn't enough for some liberals
Posted by: rational_moderate on Sep 3, 2009 7:58 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I should start out by saying I mostly identify with the label "liberal", at least relative to the US populace.

Anyone can freely join either of these networks, and pretty much everybody knows about both of them.

And surprise, people join networks where their friends and colleagues are!

Leave it up to guilty liberals to turn this into a racism thing, and of course the "blame" is always pointed towards the rich, white people. In this context, one could just as well argue that the people who opt for MySpace are the racist, elitists ("street cred" and all that kind of crap).

There's plenty of real oppression dealt out by governments and corporations, why do we concern ourselves with arenas where there is none.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Simple
Posted by: QQOblivion on Sep 3, 2009 8:10 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's simple really. The REALLY cool kids don't use either Facebook or Myspace.

They have a life, and are too smart to post their info for phishers to steal.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Simple Posted by: leTerrassier
» RE: Simple Posted by: charles000

Comments are closed-

Advertising & celebrity fanaticism killed Myspace for me
Posted by: tlCampbell on Sep 3, 2009 8:14 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm an adult who at one point had both a Myspace and Facebook account for keeping in touch with friends and family. I opted to drop Myspace due to its ridiculous advertising that targeted a younger audience and was just downright obnoxious in content.

Facebook has advertising but nothing compared to the nonsense at Myspace.

This may account for some of division lines talked about, possibly more so with older users. Some people really would like to network without the hype and some are not as tolerant of it as others.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Modern dialogue
Posted by: Col. Jackleg on Sep 3, 2009 8:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
MySpace, Facebook, Twitter and every gimmick that espouses text-messaging may well account for the stupidity level in USA, Inc. that has seen us Tarped into oblivion. There is an old adage in this capitalist sinkhole and it goes like this: "sell or be sold!" The marketing of the entire genre of modern communication has made the lemmings believe that a few hundred bucks per month is a good idea to promote bullshit, the one product that withstands all economic disasters. P.T. Barnum nailed it years ago with his prophetic: "there's a sucker born every minute and two to take his money." As the mindless rove about the desolation that is USA, Inc., let us all hook onto this marvelous technology and remind ourselves and the world that "we are #1." Careful now Colonel, you are acting like a "c..."

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Quantitative Data
Posted by: radiofreestl on Sep 3, 2009 8:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"If you want to come back with some real statistical data, be my guest, but until then, try not to paint such broad statements about large groups of people whom you don't even know based on what a bunch of kids say."

See here and here.

(I do think the criticism is a bit disingenuous. Qualitative research does have a place in inquiry, and danah has spent years traveling across the country talking to teens. Even if the perception of class division exists, the consequences of this division are real.)

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Thank you for this. Posted by: esuriospiritus
» RE: Quantitative Data Posted by: YogiBear

Comments are closed-

Equal opportunity social notworking.
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Sep 3, 2009 8:56 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Conquering real life > Internet.Bob post something cool on my 'wall'.

If you choose to make Facebook your platform for civic activity, you are implicitly suggesting that a specific class of people is more worth your time and attention than others.

Of course, as with many, many, many other decisions regarding free association.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Inanity Overkill
Posted by: MT512 on Sep 3, 2009 9:17 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think this article was about 500,000 words too long, and like some other posters it seems to be making a mountain of a molehill, though granted, its tone isn't exactly hysterical and panicked.

I cannot understand the mass appeal of either site. It's been nice sort of reconnecting to people from ages past, but I don't get the people who LIVE on them. "Picking up Junior from soccer practice." "Going down the hall for coffee." Also they are ugly as sin and poorly organized. Some of it is my ignorance and a lack of motivation to figure it all out, but they're confusing and cluttered. The games and endless requests and stupid surveys are childish and annoying. "What flavor of jelly bean are you?" "What kind of bacteriophage are you?" "What political assassination are you?"

Oh, the inanity!

I don't really even get how there is "the other" on either site. Do most users actually just browse around strangers' pages? Why would you really care? So I've never gotten an impression of MySpace being "for" racial minorities and FaceBook being "for" whites. But then, I don't live on those sites.

It's all annoying bullshit to me and I spend the barest minimum on either site, just because I have friends who use them.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Questioning motivations rather than facts...
Posted by: poetac on Sep 3, 2009 9:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've been using the internet since 1985 as part of my work. I have also been using the web, primarily for information and to some extent for shopping, since the early 1990s. I was on MySpace first because I thought social networking was interesting and because I have some younger (thirty-something) friends with bands who had pages they use for promotion, as the author says. From early on I found the pages with elaborate "wallpaper" extremely irritating and hard to read, as also the fact that often when one navigates to a page, an mp3 file is opened and starts playing automatically. And then there were the animated ads...

All in all I found MySpace, as an older person, teeth-gratingly unpleasant to use or explore beyond the sites of my friends. However, as the author argues, I finally left MySpace because very few people I knew were on there.

When I joined Facebook, which I did to make contact with former students and colleagues after the death of my small alternative college in early 2008, I quickly encountered not only many of them but also relatives and old friends. But the biggest surprise was all the political pages and sites: labor, environmental, and so forth. I am now in networks with ex-Muslim or liberal Muslim opponents of sharia law, with Iranian leftists and other secularist oppositionists, with Canadian and British labor activists, with groups trying to push through health-care reform, and so forth--and with black intellectuals, activists, and political figures across the country. For someone in his fifties like me, the clean layout of Facebook (despite minor annoyances in the new design) is hugely easier to use. So yes, I think "class" enters the picture in this divide, and I completely agree that race is also likely a factor. But I also think that age and education are probably more determinant. This is probably reinforced by the fact that older less-educated people are less likely to be highly computer-literate because unlike their kids they did not grow up with the internet and the web.

Incidentally, "ghetto" as an adjective was not dreamed up by privileged white kids so far as I know--and I live in Oakland, one of the blackest cities in America north of the Mason-Dixon line. "Ghetto" as a modifier has been around for a decade and I have heard black kids use it as well as white (or Asian, for that matter; Southeast Asian second-gen teens in East Oaktown call each other "nigga" just like the black and latino kids do)--as in "Man, don't be pullin that ghetto-ass shit around here!"

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

US is segregating into a leader class and a loser class.
Posted by: billwald on Sep 3, 2009 9:55 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Race" has become an euphemism "African-American," which has become a self designated classification. Half the people who claim minority status as "black" are, in fact, and in practice, white trash.

Young people are self-segregating on the basis of ambition, IQ, and education, not race, religion, and ethnic origin. The middle class will disappear and we will end up with a 19th century or earlier social system.

The good thing is that, thanks to increased productivity, the nature of poverty has changed. People on welfare now have every sort of consumer good that the rich people have. The BIG difference is that rich people don't stand in lines to get their stuff.

The new poverty class will be kept under control with cheapfast food, cheap clothing, cheap housing, cheap booze and the sports channel . . . shades of 1st century Rome.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

A Question For Those Who Question The Existence Of Racism In Their Own Lives
Posted by: desidid on Sep 3, 2009 10:20 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How many white liberals on this line can honestly say that when they spend time with friends who are black, that where they go and who is there isn't determined by who the dominant group is? I have 3 white god children, I love them and their parents, but if we are spending time together it is more likely that I'm in the minority than they are. Occassionally that is reversed but by and large my discomfort is not considered. Now they are good people who understand racism, as a concept, but not in how it plays out in our personal relationship. I challenge each of you to think back on these friendships and honestly discuss how often you've been willing to put yourselves in an uncomfortable situation, because it is something your "black" friend wants to do? Ask yourselves how often you assume that your friend is comfortable because you are.

I grew up in white middle-class neighborhoods all my life and I can't think of a time when my friends asked if I was comfortable being either the only black person or the other black person. If you can see yourself in what I'm saying, ask yourself who is the real friend the person willing to be uncomfortable for you or you. Then ask yourself why you would never consider how they might feel.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Nice to see this article
Posted by: JBravoEcho11 on Sep 3, 2009 10:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I started college with the beginning of facebook. My entering class was the beginning of the divide. The ones who went to good schools got on first. So it was basically me and my honors friends on facebook.

Myspace for the college-less, lesser colleges, and old people.

As it progressed and other colleges got added the trend remained the same with pretty much the same segment remaining on facebook with a few more friends here and there.

Myspace was still for the college-less basically high schoolers and pervs looking for high schoolers. And then celebrities that realized how "cool" myspace was (comedians and bands)

Now that high schoolers can get on facebook still uses the system of networks to keep people at bay. I open myself to my college but I don't have to let anyone who didn't go to my university see my profile. The stratification remains. Whereas on myspace, any creep can still see my stuff (or now I guess no one can but what's the point in that).

Although facebook has completely opened up there it's still not a free-for-all like myspace is. That is the divide between the two networks. Initial perception and format.

Also with myspace the loading times were so dumb. I hated having to surf peoples pages with my comp on mute in case anyone had any stupid music.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Here's a marketing...
Posted by: jzelensk on Sep 3, 2009 10:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
angle on this that appeared back in the late 1990's before either MySpace or FaceBook existed. In his article:

"Breaking up America: the Dark Side of Target Marketing"

author Joseph Turow, writing in AMERICAN DEMOGRAPHICS Magazine (Nov. 1997 issue), argued that the successful refinement of target marketing was well on the way to segmenting media itself with the result that all of the stimuli that Americans were exposed to, whether entertainment or commercial in nature, were tearing us apart as a nation. People have long since stopped mingling along all kinds of lines - not just their hobbies and the types of things that entertain them (stock car racing or opera).

But further, this segmenting of us as a people was beginning to creep into politics as well. The meta-messsage of brilliant target marketing is now not only "buy our products," it is "those other folks (unlike you) just aren't cool," or worse, are evil. Today, isn't that exactly what the meta message is? Haven't the very media outlets themselves ceased being general windows on America, and become pipelines for only one line or worldview? So far Turow has hit the nail on the head in making the connection between commercial target marketing and, as he says, the "breaking up of America." This development should be flashing lights before our eyes, but we seem to be blind to it.

His article is worth the read. I think that it aligns well with Danah Boyd's column.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

We may not ever achieve economic equality but we can fight for economic justice like vigilantes.
Posted by: maxpayne on Sep 3, 2009 12:54 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And no guns are needed here.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Interesting piece.... wish it was LONGER
Posted by: DaBear on Sep 3, 2009 12:55 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Seriously... I wanted to see the data, the methodology, the experience danah had doing this study. I get that she stacked the support with quotes to fit the premise, but I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt that there's some basis for it that just wouldn't fit in the talk/presentation.

I'm on FB because my SIL "made me." Ironically she's never on it now. Go figure. She won't come to my house to visit because we live "ghetto" compared to her (it's a guess but the odd behavior now compared to when we had the crappy condo in the white-bread yuppity part of our exurban hellhole seems to support the inference).

I was on MySpace in the early days but it was such a sluggish interface I was driven half insane by the stoopid of it all. The music sharing thing was fun until that got modified for the anti-pirate freakazoids' tastes. I hear from the kids there are workarounds but to be honest I'm on Alternet too much to waste time on bullshit social networks with crappy interfaces.

oh the irony

FB works because family's on it and the bulk of 'em are on the other side of the continent. HS buds and college compadres as well. You go where people are if you wanna shoot the shit.

I hear from my oldest kid all the time about FB and how her friends are on it--OK I had no idea FB is open to HS kids but middle school kids?! WTF? You can't sign a god damned TOS if you're a minor so how is that done exactly? That's been my ace-in-the-hole for sayin' no to her all this time. Damnable FB. Anyone explain that to me? Cuz I don't get that at all. You gotta be able to agree to be able to use something that has legal implications and constraints. How is this set-aside by FB?

But yeah, the context of FB in her school and the crowd I wish to hell she'd get away from (but that's the honors and college-prep track for ya'... dominated by owning classholes) is pretty damned condescending about FB over MS. OTOH that's kids sometimes too, they have pretty one-dimensional thinking until they're in their late teens. Imperial Consciousness before they get to Socialized Consciousness and all that. Of course the other aspect of that is the owning-class conservative USD that dictates policy and who only dropped DARE due to budget cuts (never mind the monumental evidence that innoculation schemes are bullshit). These grownups without a clue hold regular seminars for parents and kids about every terror under the sun just waiting to gut their little ones and sell them to Africa or some "horrible" place. Jeebus. The internet is a subject of pure holy terror for these people. So if FB has a perception of safety than yeah, one could reasonably infer that's what's behind the FB preference among heavily programmed school kids.

I like this piece though. It's interesting stuff.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

It is not society but knowledge that is critical
Posted by: freedem on Sep 3, 2009 1:13 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Back before Aol was "all you can eat" that divide was rising. Compuserve was all formal and business and Aol was all about social connections and chat rooms.I had accounts at both trying to stay under the time limits.

Then AOL did as everyone should have and went "All you Can Eat". Before the week was out the weak were out, Aol bought Compuserve in an effort to keep the difference, but got only (needed) computer infrastructure, as nothing else was worth much. Aol sought to monetize what it had given for free, and discovered that the huge influx that had come in went out just as quickly.

But what it brings most is not social mobility as much as information mobility and comment mobility. Only in the Internet is there wide access to information, very low cost to starting your own press, and the ability to have two way conversations with Power, and allow others to see and chime in on that conversation.

The last time there was this much change in information mobility was with the printing press, though there were several smaller blips. What is missing from the analysis is who and what is driving the Facebook/Myspace divide. At the heart of Myspace is Rupert Murdoch, who both knows his audience, and how to manipulate them. And I see that rather than a cultural divide as what is offsetting.

There is an intellectual divide of who is still conned and who is not that has a class aspect to it, just as the tech/financial divide still makes some folk unable to have the time or energy to spend learning even how to learn, or thinking in nuances.

All this is not a barrier to any who would like to overcome those limitations or at least less a barrier than it used to be and our most recent Supreme Court Justice is an example, but that is now more easy if there is access to a computer at all.

Of greater concern is those with little or no access, as theirs indeed becomes another universe, and a separate reality. Even across social divides awareness of the blatantly obvious can travel, but what is not seen is not obvious.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

The nature of friendship
Posted by: YogiBear on Sep 3, 2009 2:21 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I chose Facebook for it's ease of use. I created a MySpace page years ago but quickly gave it up becuse it was too easy for spammers to become your "friend." People I know on MySpace use it to sell their music or for other business; F-book users with a cause or business are more easily separated out. You can become a fan or join their group, but you aren't "freinds" with their business as if it's the same thing.

Plus 90 percent of MySpace wallpapers drove me crazy.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: The nature of friendship Posted by: YogiBear

Comments are closed-

Design differences between Myspace and Facebook
Posted by: gGreen on Sep 3, 2009 11:17 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The design differences between Myspace and facebook attract different people.

On facebook, people use their actual names. On myspace, this is impossible, since somebody with your same name has probably already claimed your name. This leaves users of myspace choosing names that are arcane, like jHOnathan125wizard.

The scandals that hit myspace, from the abductions to the fleeing to foreign countries, are designed out of facebook. Facebook requires users to actively exchange names and accept each other, while myspace allows users to passively let anybody read their pages.

The stratification between myspace and facebook is like the stratification between Lexuses and Pimpmobiles, a cultural example of the effects of the terrible injustice that has been happening for hundreds of years.

If John Wilkes Booth had failed at assassinating Abraham Lincoln like Booth's co conspirators, racicism in the south would be less severe. It is amazing that a primative deringer pistol is affecting 21st century networks and their use.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Watch out! The political correctness thought police are coming to a scoial network near you!!!
Posted by: charles000 on Sep 6, 2009 10:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Watch out! The political correctness thought police are coming to a social network near you!!!

OK, all kidding aside, this has got to be the silliest, desperate attempt to justify article space on Alternet I've ever seen.

C'mon Alternet, surely you can do better than this.

" We desperately need to address issues of access and media . . . "

I get the passion and the way over the top desperate need to invent a cause to rally around and feel self important about, but really, I've seen better, more relevant material come out of Berkeley High School students.

I should point out at this juncture that I've been a Berkeley resident (and former local student) for 30+ years.

"While we've made tremendous strides in certain battles, the war is not over . . . "


No, maybe "the war" isn't over, but perhaps actual intelligent thought and genuine critical thinking might be.

My parting thought for the author of this missive would be the following -

If mom and dad paid for your college education, and this is the result, they might have legitimate grounds for demanding a refund.

Alternet, please get better material for future publication.

Of course, there is another viewpoint for consideration here . . .

The potential for comedy skit material in this meandering diatribe is endless.

I don't think a single hackneyed cliche' has been missed, and believe me, I've heard them all.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

So what?
Posted by: hackbut on Sep 6, 2009 8:26 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People will always congregate with their peers for probably the same reason the author congregates with her peers - mutual interest, so this was just a lot of wind.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Someone 'splain to me....
Posted by: ohb0b on Sep 6, 2009 9:33 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm not a Facebook, Twitter, or MySpace user, I find no compelling ned to constantly tell everyone what I'm doing, plus I wonder how some of these folks get through job interviews if the employer goes to their pages.

I didn't have the time or inclination to slog through the entire article. (I wish the author would have used the "five w's" of journalism in the first paragraph.)

My question is:
Which one is supposedly high class and which one is low class?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

tiffany jewelry
Posted by: lily234 on Sep 24, 2009 2:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you want to get a piece of tiffany jewelry in silver as
tiffany bracelet,
tiffany bangle or

tiffany pendant,you can choose www.tiffanyonlinestore.us. Here you can get any kinds of jewelry that you want.The
tiffany bangles,
tiffany bracelets,
tiffany pendants and other jewelry from this website are with high-quality.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

tiffany jewelry
Posted by: lily234 on Sep 24, 2009 2:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you want to get a piece of tiffany jewelry in silver as
tiffany bracelet,
tiffany bangle or

tiffany pendant,you can choose www.tiffanyonlinestore.us. Here you can get any kinds of jewelry that you want.The
tiffany bangles,
tiffany bracelets,
tiffany pendants and other jewelry from this website are with high-quality.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

tiffany jewelry
Posted by: lily234 on Sep 24, 2009 2:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you want to get a piece of tiffany jewelry in silver as
tiffany bracelet,
tiffany bangle or

tiffany pendant,you can choose www.tiffanyonlinestore.us. Here you can get any kinds of jewelry that you want.The
tiffany bangles,
tiffany bracelets,
tiffany pendants and other jewelry from this website are with high-quality.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

tiffany jewelry
Posted by: lily234 on Sep 24, 2009 2:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you want to get a piece of tiffany jewelry in silver as
tiffany bracelet,
tiffany bangle or

tiffany pendant,you can choose www.tiffanyonlinestore.us. Here you can get any kinds of jewelry that you want.The
tiffany bangles,
tiffany bracelets,
tiffany pendants and other jewelry from this website are with high-quality.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

 
Advertisement
From The Blog
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Most Read
Most Emailed
Most Discussed
On REDDIT
On DIGG
 
loading ...
POWERED BY DIGG'S USERS