COMMENTS: 200
Skip Gates: The Ivy League Is Not Real Life
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Editor's note: The person who submitted this piece to "This Week in Blackness" published it under the pseudonym "a Phantom Negro" because "Dr. Henry Louis Gates has reach and influence in the academy."
The Ivy League is not real life. College in general is not real life, and the Ivy League is a more fantastic version of college. The amenities are better, the rules are flexible and everyone, student and faculty alike, is well aware that the realities of life as most people know it are merely a peculiar footnote to the day to day of campus life. I do not speak out of turn when I say this. I know because I am in and of that world.
As a Black Ivy Leaguer, something funny happens as you become ensconced in ivy. You’re smart enough to understand that race and racism is a reality, you deal with on a daily basis, but you also know that your university ID sets you apart. Does this mean you are kept from hurtful incidents? No, but it is to say that much of the outrage felt at a racial slight is replaced by outrage at a class slight. Sure; we get pissed, knowing we’re getting hassled because we’re Black, but the real indignation comes from being hassled as members of an elite group. How dare you hassle me? I go to school here. I got to work here. That second part of the thought is always present. I go to school here. I go to work here. When the Ivy League Effect is going full tilt, our Black compass gets confused; the realities we know to exist become other peoples’ problems.
True story: One night, years ago, many of the Black students at school were throwing a party in a dormitory common area when three police officers arrived, flashlights searching the crowd. Nobody moved, nobody left, nobody did anything but keep dancing as three police officers walked through the crowd, flashlights in faces. I didn’t run either. In fact, I wondered if they were chasing someone on foot and wondered if they’d run into the party.
That could only happen in the Ivy League. Three cops come into a party and nobody, surreptitiously or otherwise, made for an exit? It seems like the beginning of a joke. On one hand, you could argue that this is a sign of progress; a sign that we’ve moved past the days of fearing police presence. I say that quasi-luxury is brought on by the muscle backing these students (and, by extension, the faculty) -- the school. All the lessons about dealing with police as a Black person seem to have no place in the Ivory Tower. We can forget those lessons because, more than we’re Black in America, we’re Ivy Leaguers.
Which brings me to Skip Gates. He isn’t outraged because he feels he was the victim of racial profiling by the police (that dubious honor goes to his foolish neighbor). He’s outraged because he was the victim of class profiling. He didn’t resent being identitified as Black; he resented being identified as that kind of Black, the kind of Black that can be hassled and pushed around by simpleton cops. How dare you hassle me? I’m Skip Gates: Harvard professor!
Skip has fallen victim to the Ivy League Effect. Check out his articles–you can definitely go to The Root–the website he is Editor-in-Chief of–if you want to see a repository for the whole masturbatory display. He all but says, “Do I look like that type of (Black) person? I was wearing a blazer and a polo shirt!” Gates is Ivy League pissed with a dash of Black anger. Not the other way around. Is this to say the police weren’t in the wrong? Hardly. As a person is familiar with the Cambridge/Boston PD, the prospect of some procedural malfeasance on their part is entirely believable if not an abject certainty.
But I’m also sure, the good doctor was talking some shit. The Ivy League Effect, when it’s potent, wouldn’t allow otherwise. It made Gates forget that, no matter what, even when you’re right, you don’t talk shit to the police. And that’s not a matter of manhood or pride; it’s a question of survival. Why? Because you’re Black before you’re a Harvard professor. Because, in an extreme case, you can’t tell your side of the story if you get shot reaching for your ID. As a Black man and a Harvard professor, Gates’ thought process should have been: “Wow. I am so thoroughly pissed right now. When this current situation is resolved and am out of harm’s way, I’m going down to the station and I’m going to use my considerable influence to make heads roll. But right now, I need to be the smart one, remember all the details and not give him any reason to escalate this situation.” That’s what any of my fellow colleagues have done, guns drawn on them at night in the middle of campus by the police. They didn’t get loud; they got smart. They diffused the situation, then got pissed and did something about it. And I assure you, they did so with much less juice than Dr. Gates.
I remember when I heard about the story, I couldn’t help but think: Wow, that Ivy League Effect has washed out his healthy fear of the police. Yikes.
Can he be outraged? ABSOLUTELY. The circumstance should outrage any person that happened to. But why is he outraged? Because he didn’t think the Black Tax applied to him anymore. In his mind, he was Skip Gates, well-regarded Harvard professor who was being treated poorly in his home by the police. Believe me, if this took place at North Carolina State his sense of indignation would be far different and his ability to garner attention would be much less. And if he was just a working-class stiff? Forget it.
But this didn’t happen anywhere else. It happened in Cambridge on Ivy turf and now, his story has taken on Paul Bunyon-esque qualities. If you didn’t know better, you’d think a lynch mob was waiting outside Gates’ door with the rope and the hitching wagon before Ving Rhames came along and saved the day.
Skip Gates thought that he’d worked hard enough, achieved enough, become Harvard enough that this sort of treatment did not apply to him. And now, rather than channel that outrage in a such a way that is subtle but effective, he’s very publicly suffering the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune, having ‘joined the ranks of the million incarcerated Black men in America.’ That’s laughable. He does not see those million men as kin and he doesn’t, by and large, give a damn about those guys. He’s merely annoyed that such an annoyance as police misconduct found its way into his home. If he read about this story happening to a plumber in Roxbury, he’d shake his head in disappointment and then go on with his life.
So before we heed the call of racism, let’s be mindful of the tower from which that call came. This has something to do with race. But it as a lot more to do with messing with Skip Gates.
The Ivy League Effect, people. The Ivy League Effect.
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Posted by: cplot on Jul 27, 2009 1:05 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This sort of thing happens to citizens throughout the country on a daily basis. We should thank Henry Louis Gates for making a federal case out of this. However the fascists in this country are using it as opportunity to extend their abuse of the Constitution and the spirit and laws of this country. Instead it should serve as an example of a situation that should never again happen.
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» RE: What James Crowley did was an outrage!
Posted by: shirleyj
» No address listed on the asshole's ID
Posted by: xvictor
» RE: No address listed on the asshole's ID
Posted by: mythmorph
» The asshole did NOT produce Driver ID!!!
Posted by: xvictor
» RE: The asshole did NOT produce Driver ID!!!
Posted by: drmflorida
» Where did you see that Gates produced TWO Ids?
Posted by: xvictor
» Monday Crowley interview
Posted by: netminnow
» RE: Monday Crowley interview
Posted by: orwellturns
» RE: What James Crowley did was an outrage!
Posted by: progressive-life
» RE: What James Crowley did was an outrage!
Posted by: mythmorph
» RE: What James Crowley did was an outrage!
Posted by: progressive-life
» Mr. Pointy Head just can't help himself!
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Mr. Pointy Head just can't help himself!
Posted by: Knot_Rich
» My little puppy
Posted by: progressive-life
» RE: My little puppy
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: My little puppy
Posted by: progressive-life
» RE: What James Crowley did was an outrage!
Posted by: Wacre
» RE: What James Crowley did was an outrage!
Posted by: progressive-life
» RE: What James Crowley did was an outrage!
Posted by: proudleftist
» RE: What James Crowley did was an outrage!
Posted by: progressive-life
» RE: What James Crowley did was NOT an outrage!
Posted by: Pegaleg
» RE: What James Crowley did was NOT an outrage!
Posted by: Wacre
» RE: What James Crowley did was NOT an outrage!
Posted by: progressive-life
» you are right
Posted by: progressive-life
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Posted by: cplot on Jul 27, 2009 1:15 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Polonius on Jul 27, 2009 1:49 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What should Dr. Gates have done? What should others do, whether professors or plumbers? Kiss the cop ass forever? If a cop gets burned messing with Dr. Gates, doesn't that help the next guy, even if he's a plumber, or even a lumpenprole?
This blatherer doesn't know what he's talking about, but here's one thing you really can know: you can read the police report. Look it up. The cop acknowledges he believed Dr. Gates was who he said he was and that he lived there -- END of any reason for the cop to be there at all. His report says that after he believed Gates was entitled to be in his house he asked him to go outside. Dr. Gates had plenty of reason to yell at the guy and if the sergeant had had a lick of sense -- and if he weren't a racist -- he would simply have left, even with this little black guy yelling at him, which is what the sergeant says the guy in his own home was doing.
But no, the cop had to have the last word/prove who was boss/demonstrate his power/ show this uppity little n . . . -- take your pick, I don't know. He didn't have the sense or the decency to just leave, no, he had to arrest him with absolutely no justification. There's nothing in the law -- even in Massachusetts -- that forbids rudeness to a policeman, and nothing in the law requires you to modulate your tone when you are yelling at someone who has turned himself into a trespasser.
I hope the good professor sues them until their gums bleed.
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» RE: PoloniusMonk
Posted by: beachcomberT
» RE: PoloniusMonk
Posted by: Wacre
» RE: PoloniusMonk
Posted by: netminnow
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Posted by: shikejian on Jul 27, 2009 2:00 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ever notice how the people who yell about being classist and how class arguments are only muddying the water, for there is no class difference in the US, are the middle and upper classes?
This event would never have made front page news, much less national news, if Gates had not been a man with prestige and power. This is Anonymous's point, and it's right on target. It's good, though, for it points up the incipient racism that (doesn't) exists in America. Without power and prestige and the priviledge this buys, you are worthless pieces of shit.
Class issues are important. Very much so. As a working class academic, this plays out in the rest of your career. You can't have those kinds of friends, you can't have those values, you can't talk like that, you can't...and you sure as hell have a harder time making it through the maze to get that kind of education!
The Gates gateway is a double barrelled shotgun and Anonymous is the only one (so far) to see this. The "system" should be attacked with both barrels, not just one! The backlash on the racist barrel will be negative; the backlash on the classist barrel...well, that will be very illuminating indeed!
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» RE: ever notice. . .
Posted by: netminnow
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Posted by: Perry Logan on Jul 27, 2009 2:56 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you're sick at an Ivy League college, are you any less sick? If you're suffering at an Ivy League school, are you not really suffering?
If you die at an Ivy League college, are you any less dead? Nothing is real; everything is permitted.
Holes in History
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Posted by: davy on Jul 27, 2009 3:20 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: x pat jerk in Britian
Posted by: mythmorph
» RE: x pat jerk in Britian
Posted by: Knot_Rich
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Posted by: parrotuya on Jul 27, 2009 4:01 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: georgekat on Jul 27, 2009 4:08 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
HUH?
Did Gates just arrive from Mars?
He is 50-something yrs old and he just realized -when it happened to him - that Black men are targeted by police?
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» RE: Gates reveals his status as a privileged person
Posted by: Kita
» RE: Gates reveals his status as a privileged person
Posted by: mythmorph
» RE: Gates reveals his status as a privileged person
Posted by: netminnow
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Posted by: fg on Jul 27, 2009 4:23 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: JenniferBedingfield on Jul 27, 2009 4:47 AM
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» RE: IVY League, anyone?
Posted by: mythmorph
» RE: IVY League, anyone?
Posted by: Lex Thomas
» You mean like that overpuffed Ivy grad Ralph Nader?
Posted by: brunowe
» At least Nader was honest and helpful unlike Bush and Obama.
Posted by: Lex Thomas
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Posted by: picket on Jul 27, 2009 4:48 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"... President Obama was wrong to say Sgt Crowley has been stupid to arrest Gates. He should have said Sgt Crowley had ABUSED HIS POWER."
"The Man was arrested in his home after falsely being suspected of being a burglar by a policeman who made the arrest solely out of pique at being disrespected by the man he was wrongly suspecting."
Thanks Dave Lindorff...taken from his "Cops Gone Wild"
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Posted by: xvictor on Jul 27, 2009 4:49 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
At least that's the report spread around.
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» RE: Hmmmm.....no mention of the black officer who was with Crowley
Posted by: Morell
» Black cop covering up for a "racist" white cop?
Posted by: xvictor
» RE: Hmmmm.....no mention of the black officer who was with Crowley
Posted by: mythmorph
» RE: Hmmmm.....no mention of the black officer who was with Crowley
Posted by: stormchilde1975
» RE: Hmmmm.....no mention of the black officer who was with Crowley
Posted by: cplot
» RE: The Thin Blue Line
Posted by: desidid
» Is President Obama part of that "The Thin Blue Line"?
Posted by: xvictor
» RE: In Fact He Has Not Been Quiet
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Hmmmm.....no mention of the black officer who was with Crowley
Posted by: Wacre
» I see. So the arresting cop's partner is just being a good 'house nigger'.
Posted by: xvictor
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Posted by: xvictor on Jul 27, 2009 5:13 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The truth is, this could have happened to any of us. Yell at a cop, even just say the wrong thing at the wrong time to the wrong cop, and you are likely to spend a few hours sans liberte.
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» RE: What you get for being a privileged asshole
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» RE: What you get for being a privileged asshole
Posted by: Morell
» RE: What you get for being a privileged asshole
Posted by: AZLBRAX07
» Yup, Gates was the "sensitive" one alright!!
Posted by: xvictor
» RE: What you get for being a privileged asshole
Posted by: Morell
» RE: What you get for being an American citizen
Posted by: desidid
» "..I will let them know they picked the wrong one.."
Posted by: xvictor
» RE: What you get for being a privileged asshole
Posted by: Knot_Rich
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Posted by: turtlewoman18 on Jul 27, 2009 5:20 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» My neighbor says that Gates and Obama have forfeited their rights to ever call the cops!
Posted by: Beck
» RE: My neighbor says that Gates and Obama have forfeited their rights to ever call the cops!
Posted by: Morell
» RE: Your neighbor? So what?
Posted by: mythmorph
» "..after producing proof that he was in his own home.."
Posted by: xvictor
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Posted by: Dee1276 on Jul 27, 2009 5:30 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Thanks for printing this essay
Posted by: VZEQICVA
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Posted by: peacelf on Jul 27, 2009 5:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the White Male Club, white males make the rules that govern all American life, including laws, but more importantly, social norms, culture and the superiority of the white male.
The fact that every institution from education to government, corporations to baseball are all governed by white male club rules helps explain Dr. Gates' outrage slightly more than the Harvard bubble hypothesis. Look at the charge brought against Gates: disorderly conduct.
Even the lawyer for Crowley's union agreed that disorderly conduct is an enigmatic charge, used too often and thrown out of court frequently. In fact, I've seen it used to punish innocent citizens just as often as naught.
And disorderly conduct wreaks of police statism and white male power. In the case of Gates, his outrage over police harassment cannot be judged against "if he were white." A whole new set of dynamics would've occurred if Gates was white. Or, I should say, not occurred.
I don't think the same set of events would have happened if Gates was white. Institutional racism took over when the officer heard two Black men were trying to break into a home. That goes for Black officers as well. White male club rules cross racial boundaries.
The white officer didn't know Gates, most likely had underlying assumptions and prejudices that even racial profiling training couldn't remove--unless he was taught to critique his own power as a white male and institutional white supremacy. Gates was doomed from the start, unless he kept his mouth shut and did exactly what the officer asked of him, as the author of the article above states.
But, Gates didn't respect authority whether from racial indignation or Harvarditis. If Crowley was racially sensitive, though, he could have easily diffused the situation by explaining to Dr. Gates the reasons for his action, that he thought maybe there was a domestic violence issue, or that Gates was being kidnapped, which is why Crowley asked Gates to step outside in the beginning. There are many things Crowley could have done, including patience.
Instead, according to accounts, Crowley refused to give Gates his badge number and ignored Gates' questions, even after he found Gates was alone in his residence. Was Crowley so indignant at Gates' anger and frustration that he had to punish Gates with silence and, then, eventually arrest him for the trumped up, vague charge of disorderly conduct?
Crowley was racially profiling. He just didn't know it.
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» RE: Skipping around the issues of institutional racism
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Skipping around the issues of institutional racism
Posted by: americansheep
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Posted by: Allstar Cookie on Jul 27, 2009 5:52 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What a bunch of bullshit!!
If Gates were as white as a sheet of paper.....he would have been arrested.
You do NOT berate and antagonize a police officer, no matter what your opinion is about them.
Allstar Cookie
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» That's right...
Posted by: ETSpoon
» Since when did THIS become a right-wing value?
Posted by: Beck
» RE: Typical Comments from Alternet Readers
Posted by: Morell
» RE: Typical Comments from Alternet Readers
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» RE: Typical Comments from Alternet Readers
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Typical Comments from Alternet Readers
Posted by: Morell
» Legally Wrong, Streetwise Right.
Posted by: americansheep
» RE: Typical Comments from Alternet Readers
Posted by: Kita
» RE: Typical Comments from Alternet Readers
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» RE: Typical Comments from Allstar "Rookie?"
Posted by: mythmorph
» RE: Typical Comments from Allstar "Rookie?"
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» RE: Typical Comment from White Wingnut
Posted by: mythmorph
» RE: Your Idiotic Post Becoming Very Typical Here
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Typical Comments from Alternet Readers
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Posted by: ETSpoon on Jul 27, 2009 5:59 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Cops Lie
Posted by: wbblack
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Posted by: littlepitcher on Jul 27, 2009 6:04 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Gates admitted that his experience is common to both poor whites and to blacks. I'd go further than this: Mike Wallace has been incarcerated for disorderly conduct, and he is a rich white male. I've been jugged on the same charge, and I am a white female, unemployed and living in my truck at the time of the arrest.
The choice is simple, if repulsive--either shuffle and Tom without the ankle cuffs, or with them. They own us all.
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Posted by: Beck on Jul 27, 2009 6:12 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We seem to increasingly live in a world of straw men, like the argument that "we" wouldn't care had this been a plumber. You know what, though? Even if that were true, if "we" DIDN'T care about a plumber, that wouldn't make this right. It wouldn't cancel this particular case.
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» RE: You bet I'd care if it was a plumber. I HAVE cared.
Posted by: VZEQICVA
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Posted by: Allstar Cookie on Jul 27, 2009 6:16 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I had a black tenant that was 3 months behind in rent.
I had enough of her crap.....posted an eviction....she wound up moving out anyway.
That was a relief. It was futile to go after the money, I just wanted her out of my life.
Except I didn't realize until a day later that she stole my appliances. A stove I let her use and a refrigerator that I was storing. Both in impeccable condition.
The white police officers said I couldn't prove that she stole anything. I got screwed!
6 months later, I found out from a neighbor that she moved just one street over from my rental. Got the address......called the landlord. He said she would be out by ‘the weekend’, because, surprise....she was being evicted.
Sunday night, I drive by the house.....and there it is.....sitting in the driveway....on its side....in the snow....is a refrigerator. I figured...since I had the freon removed....she probably had it sitting outside thinking it didn't work. Moron! Steal a perfectly good refrigerator and you can’t even get a technician to look at it.
It was mine......I took a picture of the model number......and then.....she came out onto the porch. She was supposed to be gone.....she called the police.
I pleaded with the officer to check her kitchen......."I guarantee you there's a Magic Chef stove in there....I have the model number and Landlord Statement proving it's mine!"
Fat chance.
The 2 white police officers arrest the white as a ghost landlord and the black asshole scumbag drug addict single mom gets a good laugh and has three months of my money.....and a nice stove!
Sitting in a jail cell for 4 hours…….I kept my mouth shut……and basically could do nothing but laugh about it.
Allstar Cookie
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» RE: If cops are all racist....how...
Posted by: Morell
» RE: If cops are all racist....how...
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» RE: If cops are all racist....how...
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» RE: If cops are all racist....how...
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» RE: If cops are all racist....how...
Posted by: wbblack
» RE: If cops are all racist....how...
Posted by: mythmorph
» RE: If cops are all racist....how...
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» Allstar Cookie... you may be a racist if...
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Allstar Cookie... you may be a racist if...
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» RE: Ever Hear Of Small Claims
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» RE: ver Hear Of Small Claims
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» RE: Unfortunately You Should Have
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Posted by: Purple Girl on Jul 27, 2009 6:20 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But where real blame falls is on the Cop. It is his Duty to "Serve & Protect". To do so you must not only assess the situation accurately, but also control it. To Escalate a encounter, not only endangers the cop and suspect, but the general public. Guns start blazing, bullets fly.
Which one was on the 'job'? Under the restictions of Policies and procedure.Supposedly Versed and trained in handling confrontational interacts. Carrying a Gun??
The Fact that cop allowed the situation to get out of control to the point he had a middle aged man in handcuffs in posh Cambridge, tells you this Cop lacks the training required to de escalate situations, that presents a public concern. and it may not be just this one cop, perhaps the entire force must be re evaluated for their 'De escalation' skills.Perhaps the Training programs themselves if nationalized.
There are plenty of occupations which require the skills of De escalation- Nursing, Psych Care, firefighting, social work.... It is a mandatory skill for success in those fields- and in law enforcement it's paramount.
The pic of Prof Gates in handcuff should be more humilating to the Cop than to Gates. That Cop Failed as a professional.
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» RE: Good Post, Purple Girl
Posted by: mythmorph
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Posted by: Beck on Jul 27, 2009 6:24 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: I'm assuming that everyone who thinks the cops were in the right would be okay with them. . .
Posted by: cmaciain
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Posted by: Brb007 on Jul 27, 2009 6:55 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Would I be offended that a cop pushed his way into my home with accusations and then once proven it was my home, did not withdraw offering a sincere, humble apology? You BET I would and my emotions and voice would probably escalate as a result.
Anyone can call the police and make a false or ill-assumed complaint. Does that give police license to burst into peoples lives and homes, unjustifiably, simply because some crack pot neighbor or passerby assumes the worst and calls in a complaint? I highly doubt that is does.
Disorderly conduct, in basic form is defined as an offense involving disturbance of the public peace and decency. How was Skip Gates being indecent by verbally defending his right as a citizen in his own home? Were there complaints, by other neighbors or residents about Skip Gates reactions of raising his voice and disturbing their peace and decency? Were the police who were responding and causing a scene not disturbing public peace and decency, by prolonging a situation which could have been easily de-escalated by an apology and exiting?
If these charges were legitimate and warranted, why were the charges dropped, after the cop used/abused his authority to make an arrest and a point to Gates? If Gates truly was disturbing the public peace and decency, why were the charges not founded and upheld? It cannot be both ways here. By the department dropping the charges, they are basically admitting no justification and thereby admitting wrong doing on the part of the officer ... plain and simple.
When a person is accused of and charged with an offense, there should be a reasonable certainty that the offense was clear and apparent and that police action is warranted to stop any escalation that may cause and/or escalate a public disturbance. This obviously was not the case or charges would not have been dropped.
When has it become illegal to voice your opinion, opposition to and disgust over unnecessary force and invasion of privacy in your own home, when you have done nothing wrong? If the door had been broken open and the officer had seen justifiable evidence that a break in was apparent, I would easily concede that his actions were appropriate. There were no reports of broken doors, glass or even tools that would suggest a break in. While people so easily opine about this situation, there are legal aspects and civil rights being overlooked here and few seem to be focusing on actual scene observation and legal justification for the officer's actions.
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» RE: Disorderly Conduct Charged Dropped! Good!
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» "what I understand was TWO forms of ID" -- Where did you see this?
Posted by: xvictor
» RE: "what I understand was TWO forms of ID" -- Where did you see this?
Posted by: Brb007
» RE: "what I understand was TWO forms of ID" -- Where did you see this?
Posted by: stormchilde1975
» I should add
Posted by: stormchilde1975
» Actually there's no reason to believe YOU!!!
Posted by: xvictor
» RE: TWO forms of ID indeed.
Posted by: mythmorph
» Where did you see that?
Posted by: xvictor
» Stick your fingers in your ears and go nyuh...
Posted by: stormchilde1975
» "Theroot"???? YOU GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!!!!!
Posted by: xvictor
» Sorry, I'm quite serious.
Posted by: stormchilde1975
» It is affiliated with the Washington Post:
Posted by: stormchilde1975
» RE: "what I understand was TWO forms of ID" -- Where did you see this?
Posted by: desidid
» Let Me Guess: and GATES was the source, right????
Posted by: xvictor
Comments are closed-
Posted by: americansheep on Jul 27, 2009 6:55 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: PROTECT EXPRESSIVE DISORDER? Actually, we DO have the right to talk...
Posted by: VZEQICVA
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Posted by: rwshea on Jul 27, 2009 7:04 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
C'mon! This IS about CLASS, not race. But all the news is about racists, black and white...of every color! You guys are stuck in 1975 or something.
Divide and conquer working again and again and again...
You're your own worst enemies on this. Easily used and on to the next bait and switch.
People need to bust out of their nicely padded ideological bubbles. Preaching to the choir accomplishes nothing.
Observer
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» RE: You folks are easy...
Posted by: mythmorph
» RE: You folks are easy...
Posted by: rwshea
» rwshea, can you read?
Posted by: netminnow
» rwshea, can you read?
Posted by: netminnow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: AZLBRAX07 on Jul 27, 2009 7:08 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Boosheet!
If I saw someone I didn't recognize forcing a neighbor's front door…night or day…I guarantee you I'd be calling the cops and/ or confronting that person with a gun in hand….and I wouldn't give a damn about that person's ethnicity, either!
I call it being a good neighbor, NOT "racial profiling"…and I know that my neighbor would do the same for me!
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» RE: "RACIAL PROFILING"???
Posted by: Kita
» RE: "RACIAL PROFILING"??? 911 tape
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: "RACIAL PROFILING"???
Posted by: Brb007
» RE: "RACIAL PROFILING"???
Posted by: mythmorph
» RE: "RACIAL PROFILING"???
Posted by: mythmorph
» RE: "RACIAL PROFILING"???
Posted by: cmaciain
Comments are closed-
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jul 27, 2009 7:26 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: INTERESTING COMMENT FROM A NEWARK, NJ POLICEMAN
Posted by: Morell
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Posted by: garella on Jul 27, 2009 7:37 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I chose to read it thinking, "Let's see how stupid this is."
A better headline and subhead would have made me read it in the expectation of an insightful perspective, which it was.
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Posted by: PaulK on Jul 27, 2009 7:42 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let this equally be a lesson to the other eminent racial profiling researchers. You have power in your words, in your knowledge of the law and society, and in what sets cops off. Don't run to your intellectual power immediately and use it. If you feel that you're going to take a bust, don't overplay your hand. See if the cop will make it into a truly outrageous bust.
I get the feeling that when Gates said, "Do you know who I am?", he meant not that he taught for Harvard but that he specifically studied racial profiling, and the cop could easily get nailed nationally, which is what happened. The cop, being naive, may have assumed that Gates was referring to some deliberately unspecified political connection.
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» RE: Phobias and Power Scary!
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Phobias and Power
Posted by: mythmorph
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Posted by: xvictor on Jul 27, 2009 7:50 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Gates and "the boy who cried wolf"
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Gates and "the boy who cried wolf"
Posted by: stormchilde1975
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Posted by: letrightbedone on Jul 27, 2009 9:16 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: xvictor on Jul 27, 2009 9:53 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Those are the facts for the discomfited few here.
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» RE: Those Are Your Facts And You Are Entitled To Them
Posted by: desidid
» Since when has a politician EVER apologized, eh?
Posted by: xvictor
» RE: You Obviously Don't Have A TV And Can't Read
Posted by: desidid
» In what world
Posted by: stormchilde1975
Comments are closed-
Posted by: stormchilde1975 on Jul 27, 2009 10:11 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Meanwhile, if you want to be taken seriously, you'll have to do (and cite) research, instead of employing the argumentative equivalent of holding your breath until you turn blue.
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Posted by: BlueTigress on Jul 27, 2009 10:16 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think he may have just picked the wrong person to vent at.
I also don't think the cop was 100% innocent either.
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Posted by: Phe on Jul 27, 2009 10:30 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Forget the fact that his neighbor didn't realize after countless times of seeing him that he LIVED there, or that she called the police or that he had a key or that the police entered his home or that he showed ID. This man was arrested IN HIS HOUSE for breaking and entering. That's an oxymoron and huge blemish on the history of Cambridge police. That was stupid and if the president was white, and went to a state university NOBODY would have questioned that. How do I know this? Look at all the crap Bush got away with unquestioned.
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» RE: But I ask this
Posted by: cmaciain
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Posted by: greatferm on Jul 27, 2009 10:34 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Two Alpha Dogs meet, and what they do, always, is contend for dominance.
Usually the Alpha Dog defending his territory wins, but one Dog has handcuffs, so he has a leg up.
And what does an Alpha Dog do when he has his leg up ?
Makes no difference that one dog is black, and one is white
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» RE: Sophisticated analysis of simple situation
Posted by: Morell
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Posted by: melpol on Jul 27, 2009 10:38 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Why do we always....
Posted by: Fencerider
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Posted by: Fencerider on Jul 27, 2009 11:23 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This way, they may have a shred of empathy, dignity, intelligence and respect for ALL those that they vow to "protect and serve". As it is, mostly Cops just "project & unnerve".
I found it despicable how the "Blue Mafia" and their union reps just stood their and blindly went on the defensive of Crowley and all Cops everywhere. Not even taking into consideration that one of theirs could be at least 50% culpable. The blue line in Boston is never on time!
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» RE: I have an idea....
Posted by: VZEQICVA
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Posted by: desidid on Jul 27, 2009 11:36 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» According to the NYT
Posted by: stormchilde1975
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Posted by: melpol on Jul 27, 2009 12:39 PM
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Posted by: stormchilde1975 on Jul 27, 2009 12:41 PM
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Only two people were present during the exchange between Gates and Crowley. They have given widely divergent accounts of what went down. You seem to favor Crowley over Gates, for reasons that you refuse to disclose. Most sane people would find them equally credible, or favor Gates. Why? Because the charges against Gates were dropped before he made his comments. Crowley, on the other hand, filed his report in the shadow of possible internal investigation and/or a civil suit. He had every reason to paint Gates as a loony and himself as perfectly responsible.
So why do you totally write off Gates' version of the story while treating Crowley's as gospel? Prejudice. I don't know what kind of prejudice, but it's the only reasonable answer.
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» Sorry, I have
Posted by: stormchilde1975
» RE: Talk show logic
Posted by: cmaciain
» My judgment is based on evidence
Posted by: stormchilde1975
» RE: My judgment is based on evidence
Posted by: cmaciain
» I'm not against Crowley
Posted by: stormchilde1975
» correction:
Posted by: stormchilde1975
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Posted by: gjohloc@hotmail.com on Jul 27, 2009 1:07 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Defenestrator on Jul 27, 2009 1:39 PM
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» Yikes.
Posted by: stormchilde1975
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Posted by: puf_almighty on Jul 27, 2009 2:13 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don't get me wrong, I'm just as down as anyone else to gripe about pigs, but this is silly. Ivy league, black, whatever, the dude was a belligerent asshole to a cop while caught doing something illegal. What do you expect?
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Posted by: jejer on Jul 27, 2009 2:38 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: what.....?
Posted by: jingles
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Posted by: jingles on Jul 27, 2009 3:14 PM
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Posted by: stormchilde1975 on Jul 27, 2009 3:26 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"...Ms. Whalen’s lawyer said she never mentioned race to Sergeant Crowley.
“She didn’t speak to Sergeant Crowley at the scene except to say, ‘I’m the one who called,’ ” the lawyer, Wendy J. Murphy, said. “And he said, ‘Wait right there,’ and walked into the house. She never used the word black and never said the word ‘backpacks’ to anyone.”
If Crowley is making up this business about a witness seeing two black guys with backpacks, what else is he making up? More and more, I find it hard to treat him as an honest, well-meaning person.
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Posted by: reelman on Jul 28, 2009 7:08 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Characteristics of State Prison inmates
* Women were 6.6% of the State prison inmates in 2001, up from 6% in 1995.
* Sixty-four percent of prison inmates belonged to racial or ethnic minorities in 2001.
* An estimated 57% of inmates were under age 35 in 2001.
Characteristics of jail inmates in 2000
* Jail inmates were older on average in 2002 than 1996: 38% were age 35 or older, up from 32% in 1996.
* More than 6 in 10 persons in local jails in 2002 were racial or ethnic minorities, unchanged from 1996.
* An estimated 40% were black; 19%, Hispanic, 1% American Indian; 1% Asian; and 3% of more than one race/ethnicity.
CRAWFISH NOTE:The factual data above from the BOJ Statistics website is about as accurate as one can quickly get.
What stats jump out at you? What facts above would make any law enforcement agency or person show more scrutiny or suspicion of wrongdoing?
Why can’t we ALL realize the real truth of criminal activity tendencies or profiles or percentages?
Why is there still the political game and name-calling abuse ploy?
Until these crime stats change significantly the justifiable suspicious caution will exist. Denial is not the answer.
http://conservablogs.com/theconservativecrawfish
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» RE: CRIME STATS AND REALITY
Posted by: proudleftist
» RE: CRIME STATS AND REALITY
Posted by: gemelabuena
» RE: This Arrest Debunks Your Theory
Posted by: desidid
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Posted by: xmvince on Jul 29, 2009 2:20 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Everyone should buy a tazer and taze the hell out of a police officer if he is abusing your rights like this.
Would be funny + righteous.
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Posted by: desidid on Jul 29, 2009 2:54 PM
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» May have been a mistake
Posted by: YogiBear
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Posted by: YogiBear on Aug 1, 2009 1:18 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Quannah: Your story has nothing whatsoever to do with race other than it shows you make the classic racist mistake of taking the actions of one person and relating it to the entire race of that person. You show your own bigotry in your little story.
Cookie: The majority of people on this website feel that the actions of a few racist cops equates to ALL cops being racists. If this really were true, then regardless of my situation the night I was arrested, the cops would have ignored any pleas from me or my ex-tenant, and would have just thrown her in jail. "
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Posted by: C. Rich on Aug 1, 2009 8:07 AM
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http://americaspeaksink.com/2009/07/lets-talk-about-race/
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Posted by: cplot on Jul 27, 2009 1:05 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This sort of thing happens to citizens throughout the country on a daily basis. We should thank Henry Louis Gates for making a federal case out of this. However the fascists in this country are using it as opportunity to extend their abuse of the Constitution and the spirit and laws of this country. Instead it should serve as an example of a situation that should never again happen.
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» RE: What James Crowley did was an outrage!
Posted by: shirleyj
» No address listed on the asshole's ID
Posted by: xvictor
» RE: No address listed on the asshole's ID
Posted by: mythmorph
» The asshole did NOT produce Driver ID!!!
Posted by: xvictor
» RE: The asshole did NOT produce Driver ID!!!
Posted by: drmflorida
» Where did you see that Gates produced TWO Ids?
Posted by: xvictor
» Monday Crowley interview
Posted by: netminnow
» RE: Monday Crowley interview
Posted by: orwellturns
» RE: What James Crowley did was an outrage!
Posted by: progressive-life
» RE: What James Crowley did was an outrage!
Posted by: mythmorph
» RE: What James Crowley did was an outrage!
Posted by: progressive-life
» Mr. Pointy Head just can't help himself!
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Mr. Pointy Head just can't help himself!
Posted by: Knot_Rich
» My little puppy
Posted by: progressive-life
» RE: My little puppy
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: My little puppy
Posted by: progressive-life
» RE: What James Crowley did was an outrage!
Posted by: Wacre
» RE: What James Crowley did was an outrage!
Posted by: progressive-life
» RE: What James Crowley did was an outrage!
Posted by: proudleftist
» RE: What James Crowley did was an outrage!
Posted by: progressive-life
» RE: What James Crowley did was NOT an outrage!
Posted by: Pegaleg
» RE: What James Crowley did was NOT an outrage!
Posted by: Wacre
» RE: What James Crowley did was NOT an outrage!
Posted by: progressive-life
» you are right
Posted by: progressive-life
Comments are closed-
Posted by: cplot on Jul 27, 2009 1:15 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Polonius on Jul 27, 2009 1:49 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What should Dr. Gates have done? What should others do, whether professors or plumbers? Kiss the cop ass forever? If a cop gets burned messing with Dr. Gates, doesn't that help the next guy, even if he's a plumber, or even a lumpenprole?
This blatherer doesn't know what he's talking about, but here's one thing you really can know: you can read the police report. Look it up. The cop acknowledges he believed Dr. Gates was who he said he was and that he lived there -- END of any reason for the cop to be there at all. His report says that after he believed Gates was entitled to be in his house he asked him to go outside. Dr. Gates had plenty of reason to yell at the guy and if the sergeant had had a lick of sense -- and if he weren't a racist -- he would simply have left, even with this little black guy yelling at him, which is what the sergeant says the guy in his own home was doing.
But no, the cop had to have the last word/prove who was boss/demonstrate his power/ show this uppity little n . . . -- take your pick, I don't know. He didn't have the sense or the decency to just leave, no, he had to arrest him with absolutely no justification. There's nothing in the law -- even in Massachusetts -- that forbids rudeness to a policeman, and nothing in the law requires you to modulate your tone when you are yelling at someone who has turned himself into a trespasser.
I hope the good professor sues them until their gums bleed.
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» RE: PoloniusMonk
Posted by: beachcomberT
» RE: PoloniusMonk
Posted by: Wacre
» RE: PoloniusMonk
Posted by: netminnow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: shikejian on Jul 27, 2009 2:00 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ever notice how the people who yell about being classist and how class arguments are only muddying the water, for there is no class difference in the US, are the middle and upper classes?
This event would never have made front page news, much less national news, if Gates had not been a man with prestige and power. This is Anonymous's point, and it's right on target. It's good, though, for it points up the incipient racism that (doesn't) exists in America. Without power and prestige and the priviledge this buys, you are worthless pieces of shit.
Class issues are important. Very much so. As a working class academic, this plays out in the rest of your career. You can't have those kinds of friends, you can't have those values, you can't talk like that, you can't...and you sure as hell have a harder time making it through the maze to get that kind of education!
The Gates gateway is a double barrelled shotgun and Anonymous is the only one (so far) to see this. The "system" should be attacked with both barrels, not just one! The backlash on the racist barrel will be negative; the backlash on the classist barrel...well, that will be very illuminating indeed!
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» RE: ever notice. . .
Posted by: netminnow
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Posted by: Perry Logan on Jul 27, 2009 2:56 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you're sick at an Ivy League college, are you any less sick? If you're suffering at an Ivy League school, are you not really suffering?
If you die at an Ivy League college, are you any less dead? Nothing is real; everything is permitted.
Holes in History
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Posted by: davy on Jul 27, 2009 3:20 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: x pat jerk in Britian
Posted by: mythmorph
» RE: x pat jerk in Britian
Posted by: Knot_Rich
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Posted by: parrotuya on Jul 27, 2009 4:01 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: georgekat on Jul 27, 2009 4:08 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
HUH?
Did Gates just arrive from Mars?
He is 50-something yrs old and he just realized -when it happened to him - that Black men are targeted by police?
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» RE: Gates reveals his status as a privileged person
Posted by: Kita
» RE: Gates reveals his status as a privileged person
Posted by: mythmorph
» RE: Gates reveals his status as a privileged person
Posted by: netminnow
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Posted by: fg on Jul 27, 2009 4:23 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: JenniferBedingfield on Jul 27, 2009 4:47 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: IVY League, anyone?
Posted by: mythmorph
» RE: IVY League, anyone?
Posted by: Lex Thomas
» You mean like that overpuffed Ivy grad Ralph Nader?
Posted by: brunowe
» At least Nader was honest and helpful unlike Bush and Obama.
Posted by: Lex Thomas
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Posted by: picket on Jul 27, 2009 4:48 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"... President Obama was wrong to say Sgt Crowley has been stupid to arrest Gates. He should have said Sgt Crowley had ABUSED HIS POWER."
"The Man was arrested in his home after falsely being suspected of being a burglar by a policeman who made the arrest solely out of pique at being disrespected by the man he was wrongly suspecting."
Thanks Dave Lindorff...taken from his "Cops Gone Wild"
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Posted by: xvictor on Jul 27, 2009 4:49 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
At least that's the report spread around.
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» RE: Hmmmm.....no mention of the black officer who was with Crowley
Posted by: Morell
» Black cop covering up for a "racist" white cop?
Posted by: xvictor
» RE: Hmmmm.....no mention of the black officer who was with Crowley
Posted by: mythmorph
» RE: Hmmmm.....no mention of the black officer who was with Crowley
Posted by: stormchilde1975
» RE: Hmmmm.....no mention of the black officer who was with Crowley
Posted by: cplot
» RE: The Thin Blue Line
Posted by: desidid
» Is President Obama part of that "The Thin Blue Line"?
Posted by: xvictor
» RE: In Fact He Has Not Been Quiet
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Hmmmm.....no mention of the black officer who was with Crowley
Posted by: Wacre
» I see. So the arresting cop's partner is just being a good 'house nigger'.
Posted by: xvictor
Comments are closed-
Posted by: xvictor on Jul 27, 2009 5:13 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The truth is, this could have happened to any of us. Yell at a cop, even just say the wrong thing at the wrong time to the wrong cop, and you are likely to spend a few hours sans liberte.
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» RE: What you get for being a privileged asshole
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» RE: What you get for being a privileged asshole
Posted by: Morell
» RE: What you get for being a privileged asshole
Posted by: AZLBRAX07
» Yup, Gates was the "sensitive" one alright!!
Posted by: xvictor
» RE: What you get for being a privileged asshole
Posted by: Morell
» RE: What you get for being an American citizen
Posted by: desidid
» "..I will let them know they picked the wrong one.."
Posted by: xvictor
» RE: What you get for being a privileged asshole
Posted by: Knot_Rich
Comments are closed-
Posted by: turtlewoman18 on Jul 27, 2009 5:20 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» My neighbor says that Gates and Obama have forfeited their rights to ever call the cops!
Posted by: Beck
» RE: My neighbor says that Gates and Obama have forfeited their rights to ever call the cops!
Posted by: Morell
» RE: Your neighbor? So what?
Posted by: mythmorph
» "..after producing proof that he was in his own home.."
Posted by: xvictor
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Posted by: Dee1276 on Jul 27, 2009 5:30 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Thanks for printing this essay
Posted by: VZEQICVA
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Posted by: peacelf on Jul 27, 2009 5:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the White Male Club, white males make the rules that govern all American life, including laws, but more importantly, social norms, culture and the superiority of the white male.
The fact that every institution from education to government, corporations to baseball are all governed by white male club rules helps explain Dr. Gates' outrage slightly more than the Harvard bubble hypothesis. Look at the charge brought against Gates: disorderly conduct.
Even the lawyer for Crowley's union agreed that disorderly conduct is an enigmatic charge, used too often and thrown out of court frequently. In fact, I've seen it used to punish innocent citizens just as often as naught.
And disorderly conduct wreaks of police statism and white male power. In the case of Gates, his outrage over police harassment cannot be judged against "if he were white." A whole new set of dynamics would've occurred if Gates was white. Or, I should say, not occurred.
I don't think the same set of events would have happened if Gates was white. Institutional racism took over when the officer heard two Black men were trying to break into a home. That goes for Black officers as well. White male club rules cross racial boundaries.
The white officer didn't know Gates, most likely had underlying assumptions and prejudices that even racial profiling training couldn't remove--unless he was taught to critique his own power as a white male and institutional white supremacy. Gates was doomed from the start, unless he kept his mouth shut and did exactly what the officer asked of him, as the author of the article above states.
But, Gates didn't respect authority whether from racial indignation or Harvarditis. If Crowley was racially sensitive, though, he could have easily diffused the situation by explaining to Dr. Gates the reasons for his action, that he thought maybe there was a domestic violence issue, or that Gates was being kidnapped, which is why Crowley asked Gates to step outside in the beginning. There are many things Crowley could have done, including patience.
Instead, according to accounts, Crowley refused to give Gates his badge number and ignored Gates' questions, even after he found Gates was alone in his residence. Was Crowley so indignant at Gates' anger and frustration that he had to punish Gates with silence and, then, eventually arrest him for the trumped up, vague charge of disorderly conduct?
Crowley was racially profiling. He just didn't know it.
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» RE: Skipping around the issues of institutional racism
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Skipping around the issues of institutional racism
Posted by: americansheep
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Allstar Cookie on Jul 27, 2009 5:52 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What a bunch of bullshit!!
If Gates were as white as a sheet of paper.....he would have been arrested.
You do NOT berate and antagonize a police officer, no matter what your opinion is about them.
Allstar Cookie
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» That's right...
Posted by: ETSpoon
» Since when did THIS become a right-wing value?
Posted by: Beck
» RE: Typical Comments from Alternet Readers
Posted by: Morell
» RE: Typical Comments from Alternet Readers
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» RE: Typical Comments from Alternet Readers
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Typical Comments from Alternet Readers
Posted by: Morell
» Legally Wrong, Streetwise Right.
Posted by: americansheep
» RE: Typical Comments from Alternet Readers
Posted by: Kita
» RE: Typical Comments from Alternet Readers
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» RE: Typical Comments from Allstar "Rookie?"
Posted by: mythmorph
» RE: Typical Comments from Allstar "Rookie?"
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» RE: Typical Comment from White Wingnut
Posted by: mythmorph
» RE: Your Idiotic Post Becoming Very Typical Here
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Typical Comments from Alternet Readers
Posted by: hagwind
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ETSpoon on Jul 27, 2009 5:59 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Cops Lie
Posted by: wbblack
Comments are closed-
Posted by: littlepitcher on Jul 27, 2009 6:04 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Gates admitted that his experience is common to both poor whites and to blacks. I'd go further than this: Mike Wallace has been incarcerated for disorderly conduct, and he is a rich white male. I've been jugged on the same charge, and I am a white female, unemployed and living in my truck at the time of the arrest.
The choice is simple, if repulsive--either shuffle and Tom without the ankle cuffs, or with them. They own us all.
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Posted by: Beck on Jul 27, 2009 6:12 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We seem to increasingly live in a world of straw men, like the argument that "we" wouldn't care had this been a plumber. You know what, though? Even if that were true, if "we" DIDN'T care about a plumber, that wouldn't make this right. It wouldn't cancel this particular case.
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» RE: You bet I'd care if it was a plumber. I HAVE cared.
Posted by: VZEQICVA
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Posted by: Allstar Cookie on Jul 27, 2009 6:16 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I had a black tenant that was 3 months behind in rent.
I had enough of her crap.....posted an eviction....she wound up moving out anyway.
That was a relief. It was futile to go after the money, I just wanted her out of my life.
Except I didn't realize until a day later that she stole my appliances. A stove I let her use and a refrigerator that I was storing. Both in impeccable condition.
The white police officers said I couldn't prove that she stole anything. I got screwed!
6 months later, I found out from a neighbor that she moved just one street over from my rental. Got the address......called the landlord. He said she would be out by ‘the weekend’, because, surprise....she was being evicted.
Sunday night, I drive by the house.....and there it is.....sitting in the driveway....on its side....in the snow....is a refrigerator. I figured...since I had the freon removed....she probably had it sitting outside thinking it didn't work. Moron! Steal a perfectly good refrigerator and you can’t even get a technician to look at it.
It was mine......I took a picture of the model number......and then.....she came out onto the porch. She was supposed to be gone.....she called the police.
I pleaded with the officer to check her kitchen......."I guarantee you there's a Magic Chef stove in there....I have the model number and Landlord Statement proving it's mine!"
Fat chance.
The 2 white police officers arrest the white as a ghost landlord and the black asshole scumbag drug addict single mom gets a good laugh and has three months of my money.....and a nice stove!
Sitting in a jail cell for 4 hours…….I kept my mouth shut……and basically could do nothing but laugh about it.
Allstar Cookie
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» RE: If cops are all racist....how...
Posted by: Morell
» RE: If cops are all racist....how...
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» RE: If cops are all racist....how...
Posted by: Kita
» RE: If cops are all racist....how...
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» RE: If cops are all racist....how...
Posted by: wbblack
» RE: If cops are all racist....how...
Posted by: mythmorph
» RE: If cops are all racist....how...
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» Allstar Cookie... you may be a racist if...
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Allstar Cookie... you may be a racist if...
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» RE: Ever Hear Of Small Claims
Posted by: desidid
» RE: ver Hear Of Small Claims
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» RE: Unfortunately You Should Have
Posted by: desidid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Purple Girl on Jul 27, 2009 6:20 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But where real blame falls is on the Cop. It is his Duty to "Serve & Protect". To do so you must not only assess the situation accurately, but also control it. To Escalate a encounter, not only endangers the cop and suspect, but the general public. Guns start blazing, bullets fly.
Which one was on the 'job'? Under the restictions of Policies and procedure.Supposedly Versed and trained in handling confrontational interacts. Carrying a Gun??
The Fact that cop allowed the situation to get out of control to the point he had a middle aged man in handcuffs in posh Cambridge, tells you this Cop lacks the training required to de escalate situations, that presents a public concern. and it may not be just this one cop, perhaps the entire force must be re evaluated for their 'De escalation' skills.Perhaps the Training programs themselves if nationalized.
There are plenty of occupations which require the skills of De escalation- Nursing, Psych Care, firefighting, social work.... It is a mandatory skill for success in those fields- and in law enforcement it's paramount.
The pic of Prof Gates in handcuff should be more humilating to the Cop than to Gates. That Cop Failed as a professional.
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» RE: Good Post, Purple Girl
Posted by: mythmorph
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Beck on Jul 27, 2009 6:24 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: I'm assuming that everyone who thinks the cops were in the right would be okay with them. . .
Posted by: cmaciain
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Posted by: Brb007 on Jul 27, 2009 6:55 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Would I be offended that a cop pushed his way into my home with accusations and then once proven it was my home, did not withdraw offering a sincere, humble apology? You BET I would and my emotions and voice would probably escalate as a result.
Anyone can call the police and make a false or ill-assumed complaint. Does that give police license to burst into peoples lives and homes, unjustifiably, simply because some crack pot neighbor or passerby assumes the worst and calls in a complaint? I highly doubt that is does.
Disorderly conduct, in basic form is defined as an offense involving disturbance of the public peace and decency. How was Skip Gates being indecent by verbally defending his right as a citizen in his own home? Were there complaints, by other neighbors or residents about Skip Gates reactions of raising his voice and disturbing their peace and decency? Were the police who were responding and causing a scene not disturbing public peace and decency, by prolonging a situation which could have been easily de-escalated by an apology and exiting?
If these charges were legitimate and warranted, why were the charges dropped, after the cop used/abused his authority to make an arrest and a point to Gates? If Gates truly was disturbing the public peace and decency, why were the charges not founded and upheld? It cannot be both ways here. By the department dropping the charges, they are basically admitting no justification and thereby admitting wrong doing on the part of the officer ... plain and simple.
When a person is accused of and charged with an offense, there should be a reasonable certainty that the offense was clear and apparent and that police action is warranted to stop any escalation that may cause and/or escalate a public disturbance. This obviously was not the case or charges would not have been dropped.
When has it become illegal to voice your opinion, opposition to and disgust over unnecessary force and invasion of privacy in your own home, when you have done nothing wrong? If the door had been broken open and the officer had seen justifiable evidence that a break in was apparent, I would easily concede that his actions were appropriate. There were no reports of broken doors, glass or even tools that would suggest a break in. While people so easily opine about this situation, there are legal aspects and civil rights being overlooked here and few seem to be focusing on actual scene observation and legal justification for the officer's actions.
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» RE: Disorderly Conduct Charged Dropped! Good!
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» "what I understand was TWO forms of ID" -- Where did you see this?
Posted by: xvictor
» RE: "what I understand was TWO forms of ID" -- Where did you see this?
Posted by: Brb007
» RE: "what I understand was TWO forms of ID" -- Where did you see this?
Posted by: stormchilde1975
» I should add
Posted by: stormchilde1975
» Actually there's no reason to believe YOU!!!
Posted by: xvictor
» RE: TWO forms of ID indeed.
Posted by: mythmorph
» Where did you see that?
Posted by: xvictor
» Stick your fingers in your ears and go nyuh...
Posted by: stormchilde1975
» "Theroot"???? YOU GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!!!!!
Posted by: xvictor
» Sorry, I'm quite serious.
Posted by: stormchilde1975
» It is affiliated with the Washington Post:
Posted by: stormchilde1975
» RE: "what I understand was TWO forms of ID" -- Where did you see this?
Posted by: desidid
» Let Me Guess: and GATES was the source, right????
Posted by: xvictor
Comments are closed-
Posted by: americansheep on Jul 27, 2009 6:55 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: PROTECT EXPRESSIVE DISORDER? Actually, we DO have the right to talk...
Posted by: VZEQICVA
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Posted by: rwshea on Jul 27, 2009 7:04 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
C'mon! This IS about CLASS, not race. But all the news is about racists, black and white...of every color! You guys are stuck in 1975 or something.
Divide and conquer working again and again and again...
You're your own worst enemies on this. Easily used and on to the next bait and switch.
People need to bust out of their nicely padded ideological bubbles. Preaching to the choir accomplishes nothing.
Observer
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» RE: You folks are easy...
Posted by: mythmorph
» RE: You folks are easy...
Posted by: rwshea
» rwshea, can you read?
Posted by: netminnow
» rwshea, can you read?
Posted by: netminnow
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Posted by: AZLBRAX07 on Jul 27, 2009 7:08 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Boosheet!
If I saw someone I didn't recognize forcing a neighbor's front door…night or day…I guarantee you I'd be calling the cops and/ or confronting that person with a gun in hand….and I wouldn't give a damn about that person's ethnicity, either!
I call it being a good neighbor, NOT "racial profiling"…and I know that my neighbor would do the same for me!
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» RE: "RACIAL PROFILING"???
Posted by: Kita
» RE: "RACIAL PROFILING"??? 911 tape
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: "RACIAL PROFILING"???
Posted by: Brb007
» RE: "RACIAL PROFILING"???
Posted by: mythmorph
» RE: "RACIAL PROFILING"???
Posted by: mythmorph
» RE: "RACIAL PROFILING"???
Posted by: cmaciain
Comments are closed-
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jul 27, 2009 7:26 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: INTERESTING COMMENT FROM A NEWARK, NJ POLICEMAN
Posted by: Morell
Comments are closed-
Posted by: garella on Jul 27, 2009 7:37 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I chose to read it thinking, "Let's see how stupid this is."
A better headline and subhead would have made me read it in the expectation of an insightful perspective, which it was.
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Posted by: PaulK on Jul 27, 2009 7:42 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let this equally be a lesson to the other eminent racial profiling researchers. You have power in your words, in your knowledge of the law and society, and in what sets cops off. Don't run to your intellectual power immediately and use it. If you feel that you're going to take a bust, don't overplay your hand. See if the cop will make it into a truly outrageous bust.
I get the feeling that when Gates said, "Do you know who I am?", he meant not that he taught for Harvard but that he specifically studied racial profiling, and the cop could easily get nailed nationally, which is what happened. The cop, being naive, may have assumed that Gates was referring to some deliberately unspecified political connection.
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» RE: Phobias and Power Scary!
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Phobias and Power
Posted by: mythmorph
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Posted by: xvictor on Jul 27, 2009 7:50 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Gates and "the boy who cried wolf"
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Gates and "the boy who cried wolf"
Posted by: stormchilde1975
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Posted by: letrightbedone on Jul 27, 2009 9:16 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: xvictor on Jul 27, 2009 9:53 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Those are the facts for the discomfited few here.
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» RE: Those Are Your Facts And You Are Entitled To Them
Posted by: desidid
» Since when has a politician EVER apologized, eh?
Posted by: xvictor
» RE: You Obviously Don't Have A TV And Can't Read
Posted by: desidid
» In what world
Posted by: stormchilde1975
Comments are closed-
Posted by: stormchilde1975 on Jul 27, 2009 10:11 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Meanwhile, if you want to be taken seriously, you'll have to do (and cite) research, instead of employing the argumentative equivalent of holding your breath until you turn blue.
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Posted by: BlueTigress on Jul 27, 2009 10:16 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think he may have just picked the wrong person to vent at.
I also don't think the cop was 100% innocent either.
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Posted by: Phe on Jul 27, 2009 10:30 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Forget the fact that his neighbor didn't realize after countless times of seeing him that he LIVED there, or that she called the police or that he had a key or that the police entered his home or that he showed ID. This man was arrested IN HIS HOUSE for breaking and entering. That's an oxymoron and huge blemish on the history of Cambridge police. That was stupid and if the president was white, and went to a state university NOBODY would have questioned that. How do I know this? Look at all the crap Bush got away with unquestioned.
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» RE: But I ask this
Posted by: cmaciain
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Posted by: greatferm on Jul 27, 2009 10:34 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Two Alpha Dogs meet, and what they do, always, is contend for dominance.
Usually the Alpha Dog defending his territory wins, but one Dog has handcuffs, so he has a leg up.
And what does an Alpha Dog do when he has his leg up ?
Makes no difference that one dog is black, and one is white
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» RE: Sophisticated analysis of simple situation
Posted by: Morell
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Posted by: melpol on Jul 27, 2009 10:38 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Why do we always....
Posted by: Fencerider
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Posted by: Fencerider on Jul 27, 2009 11:23 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This way, they may have a shred of empathy, dignity, intelligence and respect for ALL those that they vow to "protect and serve". As it is, mostly Cops just "project & unnerve".
I found it despicable how the "Blue Mafia" and their union reps just stood their and blindly went on the defensive of Crowley and all Cops everywhere. Not even taking into consideration that one of theirs could be at least 50% culpable. The blue line in Boston is never on time!
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» RE: I have an idea....
Posted by: VZEQICVA
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Posted by: desidid on Jul 27, 2009 11:36 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» According to the NYT
Posted by: stormchilde1975
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Posted by: melpol on Jul 27, 2009 12:39 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: stormchilde1975 on Jul 27, 2009 12:41 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Only two people were present during the exchange between Gates and Crowley. They have given widely divergent accounts of what went down. You seem to favor Crowley over Gates, for reasons that you refuse to disclose. Most sane people would find them equally credible, or favor Gates. Why? Because the charges against Gates were dropped before he made his comments. Crowley, on the other hand, filed his report in the shadow of possible internal investigation and/or a civil suit. He had every reason to paint Gates as a loony and himself as perfectly responsible.
So why do you totally write off Gates' version of the story while treating Crowley's as gospel? Prejudice. I don't know what kind of prejudice, but it's the only reasonable answer.
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» Sorry, I have
Posted by: stormchilde1975
» RE: Talk show logic
Posted by: cmaciain
» My judgment is based on evidence
Posted by: stormchilde1975
» RE: My judgment is based on evidence
Posted by: cmaciain
» I'm not against Crowley
Posted by: stormchilde1975
» correction:
Posted by: stormchilde1975
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Posted by: gjohloc@hotmail.com on Jul 27, 2009 1:07 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Defenestrator on Jul 27, 2009 1:39 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Yikes.
Posted by: stormchilde1975
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Posted by: puf_almighty on Jul 27, 2009 2:13 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don't get me wrong, I'm just as down as anyone else to gripe about pigs, but this is silly. Ivy league, black, whatever, the dude was a belligerent asshole to a cop while caught doing something illegal. What do you expect?
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Posted by: jejer on Jul 27, 2009 2:38 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: what.....?
Posted by: jingles
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Posted by: jingles on Jul 27, 2009 3:14 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: stormchilde1975 on Jul 27, 2009 3:26 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"...Ms. Whalen’s lawyer said she never mentioned race to Sergeant Crowley.
“She didn’t speak to Sergeant Crowley at the scene except to say, ‘I’m the one who called,’ ” the lawyer, Wendy J. Murphy, said. “And he said, ‘Wait right there,’ and walked into the house. She never used the word black and never said the word ‘backpacks’ to anyone.”
If Crowley is making up this business about a witness seeing two black guys with backpacks, what else is he making up? More and more, I find it hard to treat him as an honest, well-meaning person.
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Posted by: reelman on Jul 28, 2009 7:08 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Characteristics of State Prison inmates
* Women were 6.6% of the State prison inmates in 2001, up from 6% in 1995.
* Sixty-four percent of prison inmates belonged to racial or ethnic minorities in 2001.
* An estimated 57% of inmates were under age 35 in 2001.
Characteristics of jail inmates in 2000
* Jail inmates were older on average in 2002 than 1996: 38% were age 35 or older, up from 32% in 1996.
* More than 6 in 10 persons in local jails in 2002 were racial or ethnic minorities, unchanged from 1996.
* An estimated 40% were black; 19%, Hispanic, 1% American Indian; 1% Asian; and 3% of more than one race/ethnicity.
CRAWFISH NOTE:The factual data above from the BOJ Statistics website is about as accurate as one can quickly get.
What stats jump out at you? What facts above would make any law enforcement agency or person show more scrutiny or suspicion of wrongdoing?
Why can’t we ALL realize the real truth of criminal activity tendencies or profiles or percentages?
Why is there still the political game and name-calling abuse ploy?
Until these crime stats change significantly the justifiable suspicious caution will exist. Denial is not the answer.
http://conservablogs.com/theconservativecrawfish
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» RE: CRIME STATS AND REALITY
Posted by: proudleftist
» RE: CRIME STATS AND REALITY
Posted by: gemelabuena
» RE: This Arrest Debunks Your Theory
Posted by: desidid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: xmvince on Jul 29, 2009 2:20 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Everyone should buy a tazer and taze the hell out of a police officer if he is abusing your rights like this.
Would be funny + righteous.
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Posted by: desidid on Jul 29, 2009 2:54 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» May have been a mistake
Posted by: YogiBear
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Posted by: YogiBear on Aug 1, 2009 1:18 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Quannah: Your story has nothing whatsoever to do with race other than it shows you make the classic racist mistake of taking the actions of one person and relating it to the entire race of that person. You show your own bigotry in your little story.
Cookie: The majority of people on this website feel that the actions of a few racist cops equates to ALL cops being racists. If this really were true, then regardless of my situation the night I was arrested, the cops would have ignored any pleas from me or my ex-tenant, and would have just thrown her in jail. "
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Posted by: C. Rich on Aug 1, 2009 8:07 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://americaspeaksink.com/2009/07/lets-talk-about-race/
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