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Million-Dollar Baby: How Much Would You Pay for a Baby If You Couldn't Have One?

Is there a fairer way to compensate surrogate mothers? Too often, surrogacy is about a wealthy couple hiring poor a woman to breed for them.
July 25, 2009  |  
 
 
 
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How much would you pay for a baby, if you couldn't have one?

Given that 1 in 12 U.S. women of childbearing age are infertile and it's a practice that's growing in acceptance, legality and practice, surrogacy's price tag is clearly pregnant with possibilities.

Sarah Jessica Parker and Matthew Broderick's recent surrogate twin birth pulled the issue into the debate ring with forceps. And whether or not you agree that surrogacy is a form of prostitution or baby selling, a way for the rich and famous to avoid disrupting their career plans or figures for progeny, or a form of exploitation, it's indisputable that surrogacy is often about a wealthier couple hiring a poorer woman to breed for them, and not paying that woman very much.

So consider this. Even though gestational surrogacy (when a woman carries a child not made of her genetic material, versus traditional surrogacy, when the woman who carries the child is also its genetic mother, impregnated with donor sperm) is illegal in several states, in the rest of the states it's a growing market.

Right now, unlike many medical procedures, the cost is subject to the free market. Couples pay the surrogate, the agency (when they use one), the IVF clinic and the legal fees at market value. Even though many argue that "most surrogates do it for altruistic reasons," as the practice develops, and a supply-and-demand issue inevitably emerges, the question is, should the cost be regulated to ensure that both rich and poor infertile couples can afford to have babies made of their own genetic material?

It's a feminist conundrum. On the one hand, why shouldn't surrogates be able to charge as much as they want for something they provide with their bodies? No one suggests that we limit the amount men can charge for lifting heavy planks of wood on a construction site, to name a ridiculous example. And I see almost nothing written about how men should sell their sperm for bargain-basement dollars to ensure even poor women can buy a vial.

But right now, even if a surrogate makes $25,000 (plus medical expenses) for her 10-month job, that's far less than minimum wage, and I think we can all agree that making the next generation is at least as important as making burgers. So why shouldn't surrogates be paid more?

On the other hand, we know what happens when there is any kind of desperation. Women who have struggled with infertility for years, in a culture that still defines motherhood as a key part of female identity, will arguably pay whatever they can afford.

They would pay hundreds of thousands of dollars, I'd wager, if that's what it cost, and they had that cash. I know an infertile couple, an artist and a musician. Should we tell them that they will simply never have a baby made of their genetic material, where an investment banker can? Should the rich and famous be the only ones who can afford it?

It's already not affordable for most, despite some claims that lots of non-celebrity, not "especially wealthy," Americans are doing it. I mean, how average can you be if you can afford the procedure?

To start with, you typically need to do at least one round of in vitro fertilization to retrieve eggs from the donor mother, fertilize them with the donor father's sperm and transfer them to the surrogate, which is about $8,000, plus about $4,000 in medication. You need to pay the surrogate, often $12,000-$30,000 for a single child (more for twins), and pay for medical fees. There are sometimes agency fees, travel fees (if you live in a state where surrogacy is illegal and you work with a surrogate in another state), extra legal fees (like to get the biological parents' names on the birth certificate in states where that's not automatic, and to create a contract with the surrogate if the arrangement is not done through an agency), and maternity clothing fees and other expenses. The total cost for a single birth is often $40,000-$70,000. And that's with the surrogate often earning far less than minimum wage.

Even if surrogates' motives are mostly altruistic, if demand increases, more surrogates will inevitably wonder if fairer compensation for their significant effort and valuable service might is in order. While it would be fairer to them, it would make the practice unaffordable for all but the elite: a situation that bears some resemblance to Margaret Atwood's dystopic novel The Handmaid's Tale.

So it seems there are three options. The first is to follow Canada's lead. In Canada, it's illegal to pay surrogates. You can pay for expenses related to the cost of pregnancy -- food, transportation to medical appointments, vitamins and so on (with receipts required for everything). It proves the altruism case, and can lead to some very meaningful experiences for both surrogate and parents. But it also means that though in theory most Canadian couples can access the service, in practice, there are almost no willing surrogates.

One Canadian woman I know, who found a volunteer surrogate on Craigslist, was afterward besieged by dozens of calls and e-mails from other women begging for her help. Very few women will volunteer to carry a baby for a relative or friend, let alone a stranger.

Alternatively, we could continue to let the free market determine the rate. Which, in my opinion, will (and should) climb, to fairly remunerate the surrogates.

Or, for the sake of debate, we could treat it more like the college-education funding model. Here's how it could work: All couples apply through an agency and are psychologically evaluated, as they are now. Then after being either accepted or declined based on that psychological assessment, they're given a means test.

Investment bankers pay more than teachers, but each pay, let's say, 10 percent of their net worth -- the former might pay $200,000, the latter, $10,000. And surrogates receive a standard amount that fairly remunerates them for their time and effort -- maybe even one that increases with each healthy birth?

Yes, educating people about adoption is a great idea. So is working to make motherhood into more of a choice and less of a necessity for female identity. But if we want surrogacy to be an option for more than the rich and famous in the future, we might have to carry a new model to term.

Tyee Contributing Editor Vanessa Richmond writes the Schlock and Awe column about popular culture and the media. She is also the former managing editor of the Tyee.
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Comments are closed-

ivf is risky
Posted by: stellasolomons on Jul 25, 2009 12:56 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://ivf-newborns-at-risk.blogspot.com

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» Propoganda website! Posted by: ruehigeAngie

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How could this ever be solved?
Posted by: jparsons on Jul 25, 2009 1:10 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Surrogacy suffers from the same problems
as organs for sale. If someone is sick and has money,
and someone else is poor, the result is inevitable.

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I'm FTM
Posted by: jamesryan87 on Jul 25, 2009 1:36 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm a young Female-to-Male transgender person and I hope to save some of my eggs, so that I may have a surrogate give birth to my children. I'm not totally decided if I want kids yet, but I'm planning on keeping them at some type of clinic. If I decide that I want one, I hopefully can find one and use my partner's sperm (I like guys) to impregnate the suurpogate. While this might be different then infertile couples, I do not wish to get pregnant as I identify as male and don't go the Thomas Beattie's (aka the pregnant man) route. If I ever get that kind of money, I would.

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» RE: I'm FTM Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: I'm FTM Posted by: Schnookums
» RE: I'm FTM Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: I'm FTM Posted by: jamesryan87
» FTM Posted by: kepstein7777
» RE: FTM Posted by: Schnookums

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To each own.
Posted by: kib on Jul 25, 2009 2:25 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yeah, if some one can't have a child, or once someone to have it for them that's fine by me. It seemed to work for MJ and his kids. Thats a strange case, but o well. Family First

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Natures way of telling you
Posted by: timenotonmyside on Jul 25, 2009 4:23 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and you should listen.
Technology gives us million dollar babies every day that grow up with all kinds of special needs. Like the octuplut mom in the cash strapped state of California. Octuplut mom is unemployed and unmarried, and she has no way of raising her 14 children - all from in-vitro. But my, my how grand our medical technology is.


And you posters are probably the same ones bashing healthcare reform.

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Encourage Adoption
Posted by: LeonBNJ on Jul 25, 2009 4:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Instead of encouraging the potential explotation of women to bear children for another, why not encourage reasonably priced adoption. There are many 1000's of children, usually not babies, stuck in the foster care system that are in dire need of good parents.

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» RE: ncourage Adoption Posted by: Ruffy
» RE: ncourage Adoption Posted by: HillbillyRob
» RE: ncourage Adoption Posted by: HillbillyRob
» RE: ncourage Adoption Posted by: FbO Vorcha

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bbholidaypants
Posted by: blogfrog on Jul 25, 2009 5:49 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The well heeled fit "family" into their busy Outlook calendar. Here's the shortlist:
-make your money
-marry well
-do the surrogate thing and keep your figure and busy "its "my" life" schedule
-pay off the surrogate slave at birth and bring the genetically engineered off spring home
-hand it off to the nanny and/or aux pere and get back to your important "its my life" schedule

Perfect

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Wow
Posted by: aadinko on Jul 25, 2009 5:58 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
OMG dude that is without doubt the craziest thing I have ever heard!

RT
Ultimate Anonymity

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...and many just keep ignoring the reality of overpopulation.
Posted by: Quist on Jul 25, 2009 6:17 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Surrogate parenting is just another part of this problem.

We need to slow procreation (especially the wealthy who consume huge amounts of resources and usually cause much more pollution)...not increase it with surrogate parenting and fertility drugs.

BTW, maybe nature is trying to tell us something. Just a thought.

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Why do these spoiled women think they are ENTITLED
Posted by: Ellie1 on Jul 25, 2009 6:54 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
to have a child? Life can be ok without one. Grow up, you are ACTING like spoiled children yourself.

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What about the products?
Posted by: Yooperjo on Jul 25, 2009 7:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not one mention is made of the predicament foisted on the resulting products by these new technologies. We're not talking about inanimate objects here, assembled in factories. The human beings being planted, incubated and sold won't remain cute little dependent babies. As they grow and mature, their very normal human needs will include a sense of 'rootedness,' the loss of which has plagued adoptees for six decades (since their identity rights were stripped from them). How do you track your genealogy when your zygote was produced by two anonymous donors, carried to term by yet a third person, none of which is considered a part of your nuclear family? Where is the protection against incest with a sibling or other relative? What potential medical nightmares lurk, unknown, in the dark anonymity of such arrangements?

Shouldn't the cost of these surrogate arrangements include escrow accounts to help the 'products' deal with the psychological, physical, and emotional fallout they undoubtedly will face?

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» RE: BRAVO Yooperjo Posted by: mythmorph
» RE: What about the products? Posted by: Pinorrow

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The world doesn't need another Me.
Posted by: Megaera on Jul 25, 2009 8:18 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The couples and single people I know constitute a group that represents every possible way to become a parent (except immaculate conception): Lesbian couples using "turkey baster" insemination at home with donated sperm; Gay male couples donating sperm and participating, as fathers, in raising the child with the mother; Gay male couples donating sperm and not participating in raising the child (though they are "uncles"); Gay male couples providing sperm to inseminate a surrogate; a single woman inseminated by a friend, but raising the child alone; a single woman using artificial insemination with anonymous sperm from a sperm bank; a single woman using IVF with donated sperm; a single woman using IVF with anonymous sperm from a sperm bank; male/female couples unable to conceive using IVF for all their children; a male/female couple that conceived their first child then, because of the mother's inability to carry another child safely, using IVF and a surrogate to carry their biological second child; a single man donating sperm to a surrogate and raising the child alone, a male/female couple unable to conceive who adopted all their children; Gay couples adopting their children; Lesbian couples adopting their children; a male/female couple who adopted their children because they believe there are too many un-parented children in the world; a female-to-male transexual who saved her eggs before the treatments; a male-to-female transexual who saved his sperm before the treatments; and even a few male/female couples who had sex and got pregnant.

Some are wealthy. Some are not. Predictably, the wealthier people were those who hired surrogates. But, that also goes for the ones who had IVF treatments. IVF isn't cheap — financially or emotionally.

As a person who never had the biological imperative to reproduce, I can neither understand nor condemn those who do. I do believe that an unquenchable need to have one's own biological children — to the point of clinical depression or breaking the law — is a mental illness and should be treated. I have seen this illness in men and women. I have seen it destroy families. I have seen children already in this world suffer when her/his parent so desperately wants "just one more" biological child.

The exploitation of women for our wombs has gone on since the beginning of time. Canada's approach to surrogacy seems so much more enlightened and so much less open to abuse and exploitation than the U.S. model. Such an approach, coupled with making adoption more affordable, more flexible, and less mysterious a process, would go far to find parents for children who need families.

Finally, I have to come clean and admit that I would have adopted children had my partner been willing. But he maintained that far-too-often-held belief that "you never know what you're going to get" with adopted children. It's worth noting that he springs from blue-blood stock that came over on the Mayflower. He and his parents are very keen about their "lineage" and "ancestry". I, on the other hand, am of mixed-ancestry and mixed-race. All of my people, as far as I know, were peasants from Ireland, France, Portugal, and aboriginal Canada. I had nothing to do with the biological choices that were made that led to my birth. To feel proud of my "lineage" seems ridiculous and arrogant to me, especially when I know so much pride-of-lineage is born of racism and bigotry. Even my partner's blue-blood mother calls my Irish ancestry "dirty".

In this time of dwindling resources and uncertainty, the world doesn't need another Me. But it does need more people willing to parent a child, wherever they find her.

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» RE: Canada's approach to surrogacy.. Posted by: MatthewSavage

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So instead of the poor being used only by the rich, they should be used by us all?
Posted by: Callibrarian on Jul 25, 2009 8:58 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once at a gathering a teacher said, "Why, I love this job so much, I would do it if they didn't pay me." To which my mom said, "The day they don't pay me is the day I stay home."

My feelings exactly.

Let's get something straight---infertile women are not doing surrogate mothers such a great favor that they should feel so blessed with carring someone else's child that they should do it at bargain basement prices. At first I thought this article was going to be about fairness and outlifting people out of poverty, etc. Instead it's saying we should all be able to use the services of a poor women. Instead of Sarah Jessica Parker paying someone a gazillion dollars to have twins, we should be able to pay 10% of our McDonald's salary and get our own sets, too.

WTF?

How about this for an article: people are not entitled to a newborn of their own DNA. None of this surface talk about adoption, which for straight married couples is all to often code for taking home a newborn which you could pass off as your own. We're not enitiled, and therefore if it doesn't happen naturally, we can't boo hoo over the costs, the surrogate being the least of it.

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Exploitation
Posted by: quigonpaj on Jul 25, 2009 9:17 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My wife is a surrogate mother, and we know several other surrogates. Several posters are making a few erroneous assumptions here. First of all, all of the surrogates I know would be surprised to hear that they are being exploited! You guys are acting like this is some kind of "Shanghai" operation, in which women are forced into "slavery" (as another poster put it). This is typical liberal arrogance, and the reason why many good people end up voting Republican. We are a middle-class family, and my wife wanted to do this to help other people. Yes, there is compensation associated with, as there OUGHT to be. After all, pregnancy requires a great deal of sacrifice and a considerable amount of wear and tear on one's body. Still, she did it because of many factors, and so do her surrogate friends. Many of them raise their own children at home with a working husband, and the surrogacy comp makes a very nice supplement to their single-income household where mom stays home with the kids. Win-win. None of these women would consider themselves exploited. Most consider themselves lucky to be party to the process of creating life.

Also, while adoption is a noble endeavor, how can you begrudge a person who wants to have their own genetic children? Both of the couples for whom my wife has carried children had multiple miscarriages and life-threatening ectopic pregnancies. They were absolutely NOT the silver-spoon, country-club, starlet, aristocratic types being portrayed in this article or in these posts. And, contrary to what some have suggested, she was not considered a "slave" at all. Quite the opposite. She was showered with affection, gifts, and appreciation. We still get pictures and have visited the kids on occassion. And the "rich folks" who paid for the procedure were nicer and more compassionate than almost anyone I've met (oh, and they are left-wing Democrats too).

Furthermore, there seems to be a strange contradiction here. On the one hand, there are complaints of the "less-than-minimum wage" compensation, and then on the other, a wish to remove all compensation at all. Not only will this rob people of the chance to have a child of their own genes (and only the most ridiculous liberal would claim that they don't have that right), but it would make it impossible to find surrogates. Additionally, the minimum wage complaint doesn't hold much water either. The compensation is not classified as income, and is not a wage. While you are always carrying the child, it is not as though you are punching a clock.

Should surrogacy be available to everyone? Yes, and it is! Does it suck that it is expensive? Sure. Many things are expensive, and unfortunately, that means that many people can't afford it. However, to demonize those that can, JUST BECAUSE THEY CAN, is a dubious, dubious exercise, and as I said, the kind of thing that makes otherwise normal people think of liberal ideology as a self-righteous, officious, meddlesome cult. We are better than that, and shouldn't fan the flames of that fire.

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» Good grief! Posted by: kimbari
» RE: xploitation Posted by: mythmorph
» RE: xploitation Posted by: ladyoracle
» RE: Exploitation Posted by: IowaGal

Comments are closed-

How much would I pay?
Posted by: BlueTigress on Jul 25, 2009 9:21 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Zero!

If I had wanted kids by now, I would have had them.

Interestingly, IVF is officially condemned by the Catholic Church. Basically, if God wanted you to have kids, you'd have 'em. If not, none.

For a lot of people, the urge to reproduce is strong. It's biology. But, yeah, I think if you don't want to go through the hassle, that's a huge clue in and of itself. If you can't, that should be a clue, too. Adopt or foster.

Or we change the insurance rules and IVF does not get covered any more. For anyone.

If the insurance companies won't help women not get pregnant, why should they help women get pregnant?

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» RE: How much would I pay? Posted by: luzmejor
» Agreed Posted by: BlueTigress
» RE: How much would I pay? Posted by: timenotonmyside
» RE: How much would I pay? Posted by: IowaGal

Comments are closed-

We need to put ourselves in others' shoes!
Posted by: luzmejor on Jul 25, 2009 9:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our whole society is sick with the desire for more money. How can we simultaneously argue that marriage rites are sacred and yet use someone else's wife to produce a child for a third party and loads of cash for the rapacious go-betweens??

As long as babies can be obtained without any personal grief except parting with some money or cells, we are still profiting from another version of slave labor.

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» a woman is not a machine Posted by: Kati

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HARSH REALITY
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jul 25, 2009 9:41 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm not convinced that the rich are paying the poor to have their babies. The sad news: poor women are usually not all that intelligent. The child inherits genes from its natural mother. The kid doesn't grow up smart because the rich parents paid alot of money for him/her. The rest of the process will never be perfect. I do believe it's matter of privacy. We don't have the right to demand to know everybody's motives and intentions. Everything can't be examined under a microscope. Anna

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» RE: HARSH REALITY Posted by: liamsmom
» RE: HARSH REALITY Posted by: IowaGal

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Nature's Way
Posted by: hanakwa on Jul 25, 2009 9:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How about this....in nature if a species is unable to reproduce then their genetics do not get passed on, there is no artificial insemination, no real surrogate (even though some species will care for others offspring, usually after the blood mother dies). Nature may try to control population size and genetic diversity by not allowing every single species to have the ability to reproduce. But what does nature do when science and more importantly money come into the fold? Maybe more hostile tactics are on the horizon. If you can't have kids who cares. There are plenty of children that could be adopted; who are looking for a solid family structure.

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I think the real problem here is
Posted by: Phe on Jul 25, 2009 9:46 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
that the baby-haters of the world can't believe that someone else actuallygets t PLAN their baby, and ca afford the child without public assistance. Oh how unfair it is that you get pregnant everytime you look at a memeber of the opposite sex and yet here this beautiful married rich woman is planning a baby and wont have to get an abortion OR go through labor and delivery. Boo hoo for you. Get over it.


Reproductive rights do NOT end and begin with abortion. Just as those who could not bare children can now get surrogates those who should not can get abortions. There is so much choice nowadays that everyone only need to take the time to mind their own business and they will find happiness.

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» RE: Ahhh yes...I LOVE IT!!!! Posted by: mythmorph

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It should be illegal
Posted by: leafsong1 on Jul 25, 2009 10:03 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Excessive procreation is a social ill. We should not be inventing new ways to accomplish it. Poor people should not be allowed to sell their organs to the rich; that includes their amniotic sacs and their contents.

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» Your point is what Phe? Posted by: Quist
» In defense of Phe Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: It should be illegal Posted by: mythmorph
» RE: It should be illegal Posted by: Kati

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Creepy and arrogant
Posted by: sirios on Jul 25, 2009 10:36 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I find this surrogate mom thing very creepy. Creepy in, how callus and greedy it is for someone to engage in baby prostitution. Arrogant in, how anyone thinks they have the right to interfere with nature. If you can't conceive, then try acceptance and gratitude for what you do have.

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millions of people with no health care--including kids
Posted by: frantic1971 on Jul 25, 2009 11:35 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...and we spend money on this. When millions of children across the world die because a nickle-a-dose vaccine to prevent a disease like measles or diptheria is unavailable. Or a pennies-a-dose generic antibiotic cannot be afforded. When scores of thousands in the U.S. die from lack of health insurance.

I believe we should tax movie-star earnings at 99%.

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Is this good for children?
Posted by: vertical on Jul 25, 2009 12:22 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A child concieved through IVF is more than twice as likely as a child born conventionally to be born with severe birth defects! A study written up in the NEW ENGLAND JOURNAL OF MEDICINE DOCUMENTS THIS! How would you feel if you were born blind and it was because your parents were so needy and selfish that they concieved you through IVF? Couple the aformentioned with the fact that there are just too many people and that there are plenty of children that need to be adopted it should be a crime to concieve through science. Once a child is concieved science should do all it can to make that child healthy and strong, but it should not be used to concieve it. Here is another thing to think about, fertility clinics are used mostly be the wealthy and as science progresses there will be a time those wealthy people will have their children enhanced geneically. Do you want a world were the wealthy are genically wealthier too?

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The selfish should be taxed. Adoption is better.
Posted by: Changling on Jul 25, 2009 12:43 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You get paid if you adopt and get money off. However if you are found to be mistreating them not only is it life imprisonment, it is hard labor and all your assets go back to the gov't.

We need to be paying people not to have kids and penalizing those who do reproduce.

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Adoption is the solution
Posted by: raincascadia on Jul 25, 2009 3:05 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With overpopulation a root cause of the world's problems, and with so many unwanted children in need, there is no excuse for making babies, especially when you are not even capable. This most selfish act should be outlawed.

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» Why were you forced? Posted by: jennymac

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Why are only babies desirable?
Posted by: Longdream on Jul 25, 2009 3:35 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are thousands and thousands of kids who need families, love and stability. What is it with the babies? Is it a diaper fetish? You can't produce a kid, and you want one, and it always has to be a baby?

If you want to parent, jump right in and parent somebody. Please believe me, you will soon love that child more than you ever imagined. I've got a 16-year-old foster son, and I know. I can't adopt him, he's not free, but I would. And I'm his dad and he's my kid for our whole lives long.

Is it that white people have to have white babies? Open yourselves up! Little brown babies grow up just as smart and sweet and happy as little white babies when you love them and give them everything. They make the most fabulous nephews, and this I know for a fact.

So come off the babies, already. Let's go to babies when all the kids who are running around loose and in need have someone. Then we'll need more babies.

Open yourselves up.

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Oh come off it!
Posted by: wireup on Jul 25, 2009 3:39 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The world is on the path to destruction and a HUGE reason for this is that there are too many people on this planet. And now people are worried about bring MORE people into existence.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE?

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Many reasons for surrogacy...
Posted by: ginny on Jul 25, 2009 4:56 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's not just spoiled career women who want to keep their body who use surrogacy. A woman I know had her first child and she and her husband planned on having two more. Her son was a only few months old when she was diagnosed with a type of thyroid cancer. It was completely curable with surgery and radioactive iodine, but it would keep her from being able to have more children for at least a few years, till all of the follow up testing with radioactive iodine showed she was cancer-free. They chose to use surrogates so that she wouldn't have to wait to have more children (she was getting to the age of increased birth defects, etc.). They are lucky enough to have the money to do this. A poorer couple would have had to be happy with one child, or wait and accept more risks in later pregnancies, or chose to adopt.
I personally would like to see more people chose adoption, but that biological instinct to have one's own genetic children is very strong. I don't know what the answer is, maybe we just have to let people make their own choices. Maybe we need to give more tax breaks for adoption, and less incentives to chose costly options like surrogacy.
I personally

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» I agree to a point Posted by: jennymac
» RE: I agree to a point Posted by: Longdream

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Where's John Brown when you need 'im?
Posted by: talkville on Jul 25, 2009 6:54 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Any social, economic or political theory or practice which includes a single member of our human species, living or dead, under categories and conceptions of ownership and property rights will in the final analysis allow and tolerate slavery and enslavement.

To enter into any kind of market whatsoever, the seller must own or prove a property right in the good or service exchange, and a willingness to exchange this good or service for money or value.


Merely because we abolished one particular historical form of slavery back in the 1860's and on does not imply that slavery as a social, political and economic relation was abolished.

We're in a world of hurt. Under these conditions, any conception of human justice is simply moot.

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2000RMB/month in china
Posted by: crysun2007 on Jul 25, 2009 8:38 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
i will spent 2000RMB per month my love:china pictures,china photos

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is My Sensed Perversion of Surrogacy Morally Perverse?
Posted by: artie on Jul 25, 2009 10:14 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I feel there is something profoundly perverse in surrogacy. For partners who are infertile, I feel no sorrow for the partners, or that their situation is pitiable.... Rather, I simply feel that for whatever causes, it has been decided that they shall not be able to produce offspring through that typically "animalistic" intimacy.
On the other hand, I feel that that there is something perverse in human beings intervening in the process of "reproduction." It seems disrespectful of nature - I think that Hollywood couple's decision suggest that life's biological processes need not be respected, that human's have some privileged right to tamper with them.
Rather than toying with the biosphere's processes, it seems that we should rather look into the environmental causes of infertility - such as the carcinogens and disrupters and neurotoxins that infect (American-made) personal care products, that Americans use virtually everyday of their lives for decades of their lives (that these decades of usage of such toxins bears no causal relationship to the increase in cancers, LDs, ADHD, Autisms, etc., is denied at our peril (the Europeans no better, as do many Japanese)....).
But is my position perverse? If nature decides "no" to our animal processes, we should listen to nature and not try to trump the decision with technological skills. This is very different from intervention in disease - disease is nature's aberration; infertility is not a disease - nor is pregnancy -) ....
But is this an odd position to have??

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Really...
Posted by: teddy on Jul 26, 2009 5:04 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I want surrogacy to NOT be an option for anyone. Ever. Rich or poor.

Other than ego or vanity, there's no justification for it. A baby "from your own genetic material"? What can be more egotistical than that? What's so sacred about anyone's genetic material? I'm a firm believer in the wisdom of Mom Nature - if you are infertile, there's a really good hidden reason you should not override that condition.

Yes, there was a time when motherhood was part of a woman's identity - the reason for that is that so far (and I want it kept that way) only women can be mothers. But nowadays, in the West, motherhood is not the only aspect of a woman's identity. Conversely, motherhood does not elevate a woman to sainthood either, though many act as though it did.

If you're so convinced of your superior child-rearing abilities, then adopt; be altruistic yourself. Babies are not consumer commodities and mothers should not be reduced to the level of brood-animals on a farm, no matter how high the compensation. Anyway, it'll be the medical and legal pimps who get most of the money in that transaction - and they're usually male - there's your feminist issue.

And if all you can afford for a surrogate baby is $10,000, perhaps you should smarten up and not add another child to the ranks of the poor.

Certainly not nowadays, when it seems more judicious to reduce the population altogether.

Read "The Handmaid's Tale", by Margaret Atwood.

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» RE: Really... Posted by: Longdream
» RE: eally... Posted by: sureshot45
» RE: eally... Posted by: teddy
» RE: eally... Posted by: Longdream
» RE: eally... Posted by: teddy
» RE: Really... Posted by: Longdream
» RE: eally... Posted by: teddy
» RE: Really... Posted by: Longdream
» well-said Posted by: goatini

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The Irony
Posted by: Phe on Jul 26, 2009 12:14 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of posts citing how people need to adopt or help all of these poor homeless sick and dying children, yet you badmouth people who are WEALTHY and adopt a lot fo chilre. What about the couple who was killed in Florida who had over 17 adopted children? Do you not harp on them for their love affair with parenthood? Their selfishness? Their need to collect special needs children? It seems to me like on the whole the consensus here is that women who don't abort every single pregnancy should be infertile so she isn't overpopulating the earth and everyone does something to help approved couples adopt 1 child each of the abused neglected emotionally scarred for life at-risk children. But please adopt European, let the babies in Africa die. Right? Racist, sexist, pigs you are.

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» RE: Frankly-- Posted by: Longdream

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You are comparing apples and oranges here
Posted by: wireup on Jul 26, 2009 3:39 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No one is complaining about people who want to ADOPT already born children.

The problem is people who want to CREATE more children. We have more than enough children to go around for anyone who WANTS children. But to bring more children into the world - when there are already children waiting to be adopted - is criminal, as far as I'm concerned.

This idiotic need to reproduce one's self is crazy. If you want children, give a home to an unwanted child instead of reproducing yourself. What is the big deal with making a carbon copy of yourself? There are too many people in the world as it is. Don't add more!

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The question isn't who can afford it, it's are they paying enough?
Posted by: ladyoracle on Jul 27, 2009 4:43 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am not concerned with the rights of infertile people who can't afford a surrogate mother. I am not concerned about that because I am not concerned about whether only rich people can buy a Porshe. Porshe makes a limited amount of cars with top notch materials and specialized labor in order to name their price. Maybe you want one as much as the CEO across town, but it ain't happening. Tough. There's no room for emotion in capitalism. If everyone who wanted a Porshe could just go buy one, there'd be too many of them on the road and not enough labor and materials to make them all at the present level of quality...

Do you get that metaphor? If everyone who wanted a surrogate baby could get one with minimal sacrifice, there'd be even more "too many" people in the world and less adoption happening. Not to mention less people just going childless and doing other altruistic things.

More importantly, the question should never be "shall we lower the price?" for a feminist. The question should be "are surrogate mothers being paid enough, provided adequate health care, and educated on their rights and obligations?" The surrogate mothers are the poor in this conversation who need protection.

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Pro-choice is pro-choice
Posted by: KrisLea on Jul 27, 2009 7:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Any of us who are willing to march and demand a woman's right to choose must accept that that right to reproductive choice includes, by definition, any reproductive choice.
I personally think all of the infertility treatment and glorification of multiple births is a bit sick, but if I am a defender of choice, I must also respect others making a choice with which I don't agree.

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Another submission from Planet Clueless
Posted by: doodahman on Jul 27, 2009 12:36 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I never equated feminism with mental retardation, but after seeing what counts for "feminist" views on this site, I'm considering it.

It's a feminist conundrum. On the one hand, why shouldn't surrogates be able to charge as much as they want for something they provide with their bodies? No one suggests that we limit the amount men can charge for lifting heavy planks of wood on a construction site, to name a ridiculous example. And I see almost nothing written about how men should sell their sperm for bargain-basement dollars to ensure even poor women can buy a vial.

Oh, har dee har har har. Yeah, that's why basic laborers get paid six figures, because no one puts a limit on it. Oh damn, that's rich, mighty rich.

As to the second example, I'll wager there is no commodity more easily picked up for a song than jism. I know of no instance where any woman, poor or otherwise, has been priced out of the semen market, assuming that she's willing to take it straight from the tap.

I mean, come on Alternet. Surely there must be other submissions that aren't as incredibly stupid as this one to publish.

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Not a Woman
Posted by: Red State Gal on Jul 27, 2009 11:03 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A woman who could give birth to her own child, but rather passes off that "chore" to a poorer woman in order to spare herself discomfort is despicable. She might as well be a man.

Red State Gal
RedStateFeminists

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right to life?
Posted by: sureshot45 on Jul 28, 2009 6:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
why do so many posters on here think they are more entitled to be alive than anyone else? if you think you are such a drain on resources..i can think of a solution.

so..since your mother was 'entitled' to have a child..you can live the rest of your days bitching about other families desiring children?

or..you could make room..since you are of no greater value (probably more of a drain on resources) than an infant born today would be.

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Did you actually read "The Handmaid's Tale"?
Posted by: susanhathaway on Jul 28, 2009 7:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ms. Richmond states: "... surrogates will inevitably wonder if fairer compensation ... is in order. While it would be fairer to them, it would make the practice unaffordable for all but the elite: a situation that bears some resemblance to Margaret Atwood's dystopic novel The Handmaid's Tale."

If you go back and reread "The Handmaid's Tale," you will see that the "handmaids" of the title were not compensated AT ALL. They were slaves kept for breeding purposes. How providing more compensation directly to surrogate mothers would "resemble" that horrific fictional scenario is not quite clear, although in theory a backlash against all surrogate fees could conceivably (pun intended) lead to legislation to limit surrogates' rights via some "it's all about the babies" argument depicting surrogates as little more than incubators (as the ruling class in "The Handmaid's Tale" attempted to do).

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blare premire
Posted by: itouch backup on Jul 30, 2009 7:37 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]

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Surrogacy Exploits Women
Posted by: AdoptAuthor on Jul 30, 2009 7:51 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Richmond totally misses the real conundrum, despite mentioning Handmaid's Tale.

Surrogacy is NOT about labor such as cutting wood or shoveling coal. Surrogacy produced a human being who usually is clueless, while ignoring children who might benefit from adoption.

Nor is it similar to selling sperm as that does not involve risking major c-section surgery and even death.

Surrogacy is a indeed a serious conundrum for feminists and all woman as it exploits poverty and commodifies children.

Paid surrogacy is morally repugnant and that is why it is illegal in most of the world. In India, women are being used like prostitutes and soon such baby farms will be in central and south america, Africa and wherever there is poverty.

But...before long, the elite will just as easily clone themselves!

Mirah Riben, author, "The Stork Market: America's Multi-Billon Dollar Unregulated Adoption Industry"
http://www.AdvocatePublications.com

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Anybody heard of ADOPTION?
Posted by: MEL810 on Jul 31, 2009 1:21 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With all the children out there in the US & worldwide that need homes, I take issue with most of the people that decide to go for surrogacy or even in-vitro treatment to produce children.
The trouble is the people doing the surrogacy and treatment are people who are usually (although not always) affluent whites who want a perfect new white infant.
Older children, handicapped children, groups of siblings and children of mixed race stay stuck in state care.
If your true motive is the of love children and you have the desire to parent, having your own genetic infant is not as important.
The world is over-populated. Let's take care of children who are already here and need care rather than producing another child out of neurosis and vanity.

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as IF we don't have enough unwanted kids..
Posted by: mramell50 on Jul 31, 2009 9:25 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now the rich can buy one and all the pro lifers are screaming every woman HAS to give birth...sooner or later it'll be mandatory that all fertile women HAVE to have babies whether they want them or not, but the strange thing...Once all these unwanted kids are tossed in the trash heap of the world nobody wants to pay for them and what if your souroGutt kid turns out butt ugly? Toss it out on the streets too.. We don;t want ugly kids now so we?
I never did like that honker nosed bitch..now i hate her phony prettiness.. i think she looks like her face was shit out by a horse..

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Alternet Comments:

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ivf is risky
Posted by: stellasolomons on Jul 25, 2009 12:56 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://ivf-newborns-at-risk.blogspot.com

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» Propoganda website! Posted by: ruehigeAngie

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How could this ever be solved?
Posted by: jparsons on Jul 25, 2009 1:10 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Surrogacy suffers from the same problems
as organs for sale. If someone is sick and has money,
and someone else is poor, the result is inevitable.

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I'm FTM
Posted by: jamesryan87 on Jul 25, 2009 1:36 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm a young Female-to-Male transgender person and I hope to save some of my eggs, so that I may have a surrogate give birth to my children. I'm not totally decided if I want kids yet, but I'm planning on keeping them at some type of clinic. If I decide that I want one, I hopefully can find one and use my partner's sperm (I like guys) to impregnate the suurpogate. While this might be different then infertile couples, I do not wish to get pregnant as I identify as male and don't go the Thomas Beattie's (aka the pregnant man) route. If I ever get that kind of money, I would.

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» RE: I'm FTM Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: I'm FTM Posted by: jamesryan87
» FTM Posted by: kepstein7777
» RE: FTM Posted by: Schnookums

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To each own.
Posted by: kib on Jul 25, 2009 2:25 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yeah, if some one can't have a child, or once someone to have it for them that's fine by me. It seemed to work for MJ and his kids. Thats a strange case, but o well. Family First

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Natures way of telling you
Posted by: timenotonmyside on Jul 25, 2009 4:23 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and you should listen.
Technology gives us million dollar babies every day that grow up with all kinds of special needs. Like the octuplut mom in the cash strapped state of California. Octuplut mom is unemployed and unmarried, and she has no way of raising her 14 children - all from in-vitro. But my, my how grand our medical technology is.


And you posters are probably the same ones bashing healthcare reform.

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Encourage Adoption
Posted by: LeonBNJ on Jul 25, 2009 4:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Instead of encouraging the potential explotation of women to bear children for another, why not encourage reasonably priced adoption. There are many 1000's of children, usually not babies, stuck in the foster care system that are in dire need of good parents.

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» RE: ncourage Adoption Posted by: HillbillyRob
» RE: ncourage Adoption Posted by: FbO Vorcha

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bbholidaypants
Posted by: blogfrog on Jul 25, 2009 5:49 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The well heeled fit "family" into their busy Outlook calendar. Here's the shortlist:
-make your money
-marry well
-do the surrogate thing and keep your figure and busy "its "my" life" schedule
-pay off the surrogate slave at birth and bring the genetically engineered off spring home
-hand it off to the nanny and/or aux pere and get back to your important "its my life" schedule

Perfect

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Wow
Posted by: aadinko on Jul 25, 2009 5:58 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
OMG dude that is without doubt the craziest thing I have ever heard!

RT
Ultimate Anonymity

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...and many just keep ignoring the reality of overpopulation.
Posted by: Quist on Jul 25, 2009 6:17 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Surrogate parenting is just another part of this problem.

We need to slow procreation (especially the wealthy who consume huge amounts of resources and usually cause much more pollution)...not increase it with surrogate parenting and fertility drugs.

BTW, maybe nature is trying to tell us something. Just a thought.

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Why do these spoiled women think they are ENTITLED
Posted by: Ellie1 on Jul 25, 2009 6:54 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
to have a child? Life can be ok without one. Grow up, you are ACTING like spoiled children yourself.

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What about the products?
Posted by: Yooperjo on Jul 25, 2009 7:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not one mention is made of the predicament foisted on the resulting products by these new technologies. We're not talking about inanimate objects here, assembled in factories. The human beings being planted, incubated and sold won't remain cute little dependent babies. As they grow and mature, their very normal human needs will include a sense of 'rootedness,' the loss of which has plagued adoptees for six decades (since their identity rights were stripped from them). How do you track your genealogy when your zygote was produced by two anonymous donors, carried to term by yet a third person, none of which is considered a part of your nuclear family? Where is the protection against incest with a sibling or other relative? What potential medical nightmares lurk, unknown, in the dark anonymity of such arrangements?

Shouldn't the cost of these surrogate arrangements include escrow accounts to help the 'products' deal with the psychological, physical, and emotional fallout they undoubtedly will face?

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» RE: BRAVO Yooperjo Posted by: mythmorph
» RE: What about the products? Posted by: Pinorrow

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The world doesn't need another Me.
Posted by: Megaera on Jul 25, 2009 8:18 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The couples and single people I know constitute a group that represents every possible way to become a parent (except immaculate conception): Lesbian couples using "turkey baster" insemination at home with donated sperm; Gay male couples donating sperm and participating, as fathers, in raising the child with the mother; Gay male couples donating sperm and not participating in raising the child (though they are "uncles"); Gay male couples providing sperm to inseminate a surrogate; a single woman inseminated by a friend, but raising the child alone; a single woman using artificial insemination with anonymous sperm from a sperm bank; a single woman using IVF with donated sperm; a single woman using IVF with anonymous sperm from a sperm bank; male/female couples unable to conceive using IVF for all their children; a male/female couple that conceived their first child then, because of the mother's inability to carry another child safely, using IVF and a surrogate to carry their biological second child; a single man donating sperm to a surrogate and raising the child alone, a male/female couple unable to conceive who adopted all their children; Gay couples adopting their children; Lesbian couples adopting their children; a male/female couple who adopted their children because they believe there are too many un-parented children in the world; a female-to-male transexual who saved her eggs before the treatments; a male-to-female transexual who saved his sperm before the treatments; and even a few male/female couples who had sex and got pregnant.

Some are wealthy. Some are not. Predictably, the wealthier people were those who hired surrogates. But, that also goes for the ones who had IVF treatments. IVF isn't cheap — financially or emotionally.

As a person who never had the biological imperative to reproduce, I can neither understand nor condemn those who do. I do believe that an unquenchable need to have one's own biological children — to the point of clinical depression or breaking the law — is a mental illness and should be treated. I have seen this illness in men and women. I have seen it destroy families. I have seen children already in this world suffer when her/his parent so desperately wants "just one more" biological child.

The exploitation of women for our wombs has gone on since the beginning of time. Canada's approach to surrogacy seems so much more enlightened and so much less open to abuse and exploitation than the U.S. model. Such an approach, coupled with making adoption more affordable, more flexible, and less mysterious a process, would go far to find parents for children who need families.

Finally, I have to come clean and admit that I would have adopted children had my partner been willing. But he maintained that far-too-often-held belief that "you never know what you're going to get" with adopted children. It's worth noting that he springs from blue-blood stock that came over on the Mayflower. He and his parents are very keen about their "lineage" and "ancestry". I, on the other hand, am of mixed-ancestry and mixed-race. All of my people, as far as I know, were peasants from Ireland, France, Portugal, and aboriginal Canada. I had nothing to do with the biological choices that were made that led to my birth. To feel proud of my "lineage" seems ridiculous and arrogant to me, especially when I know so much pride-of-lineage is born of racism and bigotry. Even my partner's blue-blood mother calls my Irish ancestry "dirty".

In this time of dwindling resources and uncertainty, the world doesn't need another Me. But it does need more people willing to parent a child, wherever they find her.

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» RE: Canada's approach to surrogacy.. Posted by: MatthewSavage

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So instead of the poor being used only by the rich, they should be used by us all?
Posted by: Callibrarian on Jul 25, 2009 8:58 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once at a gathering a teacher said, "Why, I love this job so much, I would do it if they didn't pay me." To which my mom said, "The day they don't pay me is the day I stay home."

My feelings exactly.

Let's get something straight---infertile women are not doing surrogate mothers such a great favor that they should feel so blessed with carring someone else's child that they should do it at bargain basement prices. At first I thought this article was going to be about fairness and outlifting people out of poverty, etc. Instead it's saying we should all be able to use the services of a poor women. Instead of Sarah Jessica Parker paying someone a gazillion dollars to have twins, we should be able to pay 10% of our McDonald's salary and get our own sets, too.

WTF?

How about this for an article: people are not entitled to a newborn of their own DNA. None of this surface talk about adoption, which for straight married couples is all to often code for taking home a newborn which you could pass off as your own. We're not enitiled, and therefore if it doesn't happen naturally, we can't boo hoo over the costs, the surrogate being the least of it.

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Exploitation
Posted by: quigonpaj on Jul 25, 2009 9:17 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My wife is a surrogate mother, and we know several other surrogates. Several posters are making a few erroneous assumptions here. First of all, all of the surrogates I know would be surprised to hear that they are being exploited! You guys are acting like this is some kind of "Shanghai" operation, in which women are forced into "slavery" (as another poster put it). This is typical liberal arrogance, and the reason why many good people end up voting Republican. We are a middle-class family, and my wife wanted to do this to help other people. Yes, there is compensation associated with, as there OUGHT to be. After all, pregnancy requires a great deal of sacrifice and a considerable amount of wear and tear on one's body. Still, she did it because of many factors, and so do her surrogate friends. Many of them raise their own children at home with a working husband, and the surrogacy comp makes a very nice supplement to their single-income household where mom stays home with the kids. Win-win. None of these women would consider themselves exploited. Most consider themselves lucky to be party to the process of creating life.

Also, while adoption is a noble endeavor, how can you begrudge a person who wants to have their own genetic children? Both of the couples for whom my wife has carried children had multiple miscarriages and life-threatening ectopic pregnancies. They were absolutely NOT the silver-spoon, country-club, starlet, aristocratic types being portrayed in this article or in these posts. And, contrary to what some have suggested, she was not considered a "slave" at all. Quite the opposite. She was showered with affection, gifts, and appreciation. We still get pictures and have visited the kids on occassion. And the "rich folks" who paid for the procedure were nicer and more compassionate than almost anyone I've met (oh, and they are left-wing Democrats too).

Furthermore, there seems to be a strange contradiction here. On the one hand, there are complaints of the "less-than-minimum wage" compensation, and then on the other, a wish to remove all compensation at all. Not only will this rob people of the chance to have a child of their own genes (and only the most ridiculous liberal would claim that they don't have that right), but it would make it impossible to find surrogates. Additionally, the minimum wage complaint doesn't hold much water either. The compensation is not classified as income, and is not a wage. While you are always carrying the child, it is not as though you are punching a clock.

Should surrogacy be available to everyone? Yes, and it is! Does it suck that it is expensive? Sure. Many things are expensive, and unfortunately, that means that many people can't afford it. However, to demonize those that can, JUST BECAUSE THEY CAN, is a dubious, dubious exercise, and as I said, the kind of thing that makes otherwise normal people think of liberal ideology as a self-righteous, officious, meddlesome cult. We are better than that, and shouldn't fan the flames of that fire.

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» Good grief! Posted by: kimbari
» RE: xploitation Posted by: mythmorph
» RE: xploitation Posted by: ladyoracle
» RE: Exploitation Posted by: IowaGal

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How much would I pay?
Posted by: BlueTigress on Jul 25, 2009 9:21 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Zero!

If I had wanted kids by now, I would have had them.

Interestingly, IVF is officially condemned by the Catholic Church. Basically, if God wanted you to have kids, you'd have 'em. If not, none.

For a lot of people, the urge to reproduce is strong. It's biology. But, yeah, I think if you don't want to go through the hassle, that's a huge clue in and of itself. If you can't, that should be a clue, too. Adopt or foster.

Or we change the insurance rules and IVF does not get covered any more. For anyone.

If the insurance companies won't help women not get pregnant, why should they help women get pregnant?

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» RE: How much would I pay? Posted by: luzmejor
» Agreed Posted by: BlueTigress
» RE: How much would I pay? Posted by: timenotonmyside
» RE: How much would I pay? Posted by: IowaGal

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We need to put ourselves in others' shoes!
Posted by: luzmejor on Jul 25, 2009 9:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our whole society is sick with the desire for more money. How can we simultaneously argue that marriage rites are sacred and yet use someone else's wife to produce a child for a third party and loads of cash for the rapacious go-betweens??

As long as babies can be obtained without any personal grief except parting with some money or cells, we are still profiting from another version of slave labor.

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» a woman is not a machine Posted by: Kati

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HARSH REALITY
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jul 25, 2009 9:41 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm not convinced that the rich are paying the poor to have their babies. The sad news: poor women are usually not all that intelligent. The child inherits genes from its natural mother. The kid doesn't grow up smart because the rich parents paid alot of money for him/her. The rest of the process will never be perfect. I do believe it's matter of privacy. We don't have the right to demand to know everybody's motives and intentions. Everything can't be examined under a microscope. Anna

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» RE: HARSH REALITY Posted by: liamsmom
» RE: HARSH REALITY Posted by: IowaGal

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Nature's Way
Posted by: hanakwa on Jul 25, 2009 9:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How about this....in nature if a species is unable to reproduce then their genetics do not get passed on, there is no artificial insemination, no real surrogate (even though some species will care for others offspring, usually after the blood mother dies). Nature may try to control population size and genetic diversity by not allowing every single species to have the ability to reproduce. But what does nature do when science and more importantly money come into the fold? Maybe more hostile tactics are on the horizon. If you can't have kids who cares. There are plenty of children that could be adopted; who are looking for a solid family structure.

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I think the real problem here is
Posted by: Phe on Jul 25, 2009 9:46 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
that the baby-haters of the world can't believe that someone else actuallygets t PLAN their baby, and ca afford the child without public assistance. Oh how unfair it is that you get pregnant everytime you look at a memeber of the opposite sex and yet here this beautiful married rich woman is planning a baby and wont have to get an abortion OR go through labor and delivery. Boo hoo for you. Get over it.


Reproductive rights do NOT end and begin with abortion. Just as those who could not bare children can now get surrogates those who should not can get abortions. There is so much choice nowadays that everyone only need to take the time to mind their own business and they will find happiness.

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» RE: Ahhh yes...I LOVE IT!!!! Posted by: mythmorph

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It should be illegal
Posted by: leafsong1 on Jul 25, 2009 10:03 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Excessive procreation is a social ill. We should not be inventing new ways to accomplish it. Poor people should not be allowed to sell their organs to the rich; that includes their amniotic sacs and their contents.

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» Your point is what Phe? Posted by: Quist
» In defense of Phe Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: It should be illegal Posted by: mythmorph
» RE: It should be illegal Posted by: Kati

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Creepy and arrogant
Posted by: sirios on Jul 25, 2009 10:36 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I find this surrogate mom thing very creepy. Creepy in, how callus and greedy it is for someone to engage in baby prostitution. Arrogant in, how anyone thinks they have the right to interfere with nature. If you can't conceive, then try acceptance and gratitude for what you do have.

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millions of people with no health care--including kids
Posted by: frantic1971 on Jul 25, 2009 11:35 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...and we spend money on this. When millions of children across the world die because a nickle-a-dose vaccine to prevent a disease like measles or diptheria is unavailable. Or a pennies-a-dose generic antibiotic cannot be afforded. When scores of thousands in the U.S. die from lack of health insurance.

I believe we should tax movie-star earnings at 99%.

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Is this good for children?
Posted by: vertical on Jul 25, 2009 12:22 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A child concieved through IVF is more than twice as likely as a child born conventionally to be born with severe birth defects! A study written up in the NEW ENGLAND JOURNAL OF MEDICINE DOCUMENTS THIS! How would you feel if you were born blind and it was because your parents were so needy and selfish that they concieved you through IVF? Couple the aformentioned with the fact that there are just too many people and that there are plenty of children that need to be adopted it should be a crime to concieve through science. Once a child is concieved science should do all it can to make that child healthy and strong, but it should not be used to concieve it. Here is another thing to think about, fertility clinics are used mostly be the wealthy and as science progresses there will be a time those wealthy people will have their children enhanced geneically. Do you want a world were the wealthy are genically wealthier too?

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The selfish should be taxed. Adoption is better.
Posted by: Changling on Jul 25, 2009 12:43 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You get paid if you adopt and get money off. However if you are found to be mistreating them not only is it life imprisonment, it is hard labor and all your assets go back to the gov't.

We need to be paying people not to have kids and penalizing those who do reproduce.

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Adoption is the solution
Posted by: raincascadia on Jul 25, 2009 3:05 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With overpopulation a root cause of the world's problems, and with so many unwanted children in need, there is no excuse for making babies, especially when you are not even capable. This most selfish act should be outlawed.

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» Why were you forced? Posted by: jennymac

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Why are only babies desirable?
Posted by: Longdream on Jul 25, 2009 3:35 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are thousands and thousands of kids who need families, love and stability. What is it with the babies? Is it a diaper fetish? You can't produce a kid, and you want one, and it always has to be a baby?

If you want to parent, jump right in and parent somebody. Please believe me, you will soon love that child more than you ever imagined. I've got a 16-year-old foster son, and I know. I can't adopt him, he's not free, but I would. And I'm his dad and he's my kid for our whole lives long.

Is it that white people have to have white babies? Open yourselves up! Little brown babies grow up just as smart and sweet and happy as little white babies when you love them and give them everything. They make the most fabulous nephews, and this I know for a fact.

So come off the babies, already. Let's go to babies when all the kids who are running around loose and in need have someone. Then we'll need more babies.

Open yourselves up.

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Oh come off it!
Posted by: wireup on Jul 25, 2009 3:39 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The world is on the path to destruction and a HUGE reason for this is that there are too many people on this planet. And now people are worried about bring MORE people into existence.

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE?

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Many reasons for surrogacy...
Posted by: ginny on Jul 25, 2009 4:56 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's not just spoiled career women who want to keep their body who use surrogacy. A woman I know had her first child and she and her husband planned on having two more. Her son was a only few months old when she was diagnosed with a type of thyroid cancer. It was completely curable with surgery and radioactive iodine, but it would keep her from being able to have more children for at least a few years, till all of the follow up testing with radioactive iodine showed she was cancer-free. They chose to use surrogates so that she wouldn't have to wait to have more children (she was getting to the age of increased birth defects, etc.). They are lucky enough to have the money to do this. A poorer couple would have had to be happy with one child, or wait and accept more risks in later pregnancies, or chose to adopt.
I personally would like to see more people chose adoption, but that biological instinct to have one's own genetic children is very strong. I don't know what the answer is, maybe we just have to let people make their own choices. Maybe we need to give more tax breaks for adoption, and less incentives to chose costly options like surrogacy.
I personally

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» I agree to a point Posted by: jennymac
» RE: I agree to a point Posted by: Longdream

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Where's John Brown when you need 'im?
Posted by: talkville on Jul 25, 2009 6:54 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Any social, economic or political theory or practice which includes a single member of our human species, living or dead, under categories and conceptions of ownership and property rights will in the final analysis allow and tolerate slavery and enslavement.

To enter into any kind of market whatsoever, the seller must own or prove a property right in the good or service exchange, and a willingness to exchange this good or service for money or value.


Merely because we abolished one particular historical form of slavery back in the 1860's and on does not imply that slavery as a social, political and economic relation was abolished.

We're in a world of hurt. Under these conditions, any conception of human justice is simply moot.

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2000RMB/month in china
Posted by: crysun2007 on Jul 25, 2009 8:38 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
i will spent 2000RMB per month my love:china pictures,china photos

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is My Sensed Perversion of Surrogacy Morally Perverse?
Posted by: artie on Jul 25, 2009 10:14 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I feel there is something profoundly perverse in surrogacy. For partners who are infertile, I feel no sorrow for the partners, or that their situation is pitiable.... Rather, I simply feel that for whatever causes, it has been decided that they shall not be able to produce offspring through that typically "animalistic" intimacy.
On the other hand, I feel that that there is something perverse in human beings intervening in the process of "reproduction." It seems disrespectful of nature - I think that Hollywood couple's decision suggest that life's biological processes need not be respected, that human's have some privileged right to tamper with them.
Rather than toying with the biosphere's processes, it seems that we should rather look into the environmental causes of infertility - such as the carcinogens and disrupters and neurotoxins that infect (American-made) personal care products, that Americans use virtually everyday of their lives for decades of their lives (that these decades of usage of such toxins bears no causal relationship to the increase in cancers, LDs, ADHD, Autisms, etc., is denied at our peril (the Europeans no better, as do many Japanese)....).
But is my position perverse? If nature decides "no" to our animal processes, we should listen to nature and not try to trump the decision with technological skills. This is very different from intervention in disease - disease is nature's aberration; infertility is not a disease - nor is pregnancy -) ....
But is this an odd position to have??

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Really...
Posted by: teddy on Jul 26, 2009 5:04 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I want surrogacy to NOT be an option for anyone. Ever. Rich or poor.

Other than ego or vanity, there's no justification for it. A baby "from your own genetic material"? What can be more egotistical than that? What's so sacred about anyone's genetic material? I'm a firm believer in the wisdom of Mom Nature - if you are infertile, there's a really good hidden reason you should not override that condition.

Yes, there was a time when motherhood was part of a woman's identity - the reason for that is that so far (and I want it kept that way) only women can be mothers. But nowadays, in the West, motherhood is not the only aspect of a woman's identity. Conversely, motherhood does not elevate a woman to sainthood either, though many act as though it did.

If you're so convinced of your superior child-rearing abilities, then adopt; be altruistic yourself. Babies are not consumer commodities and mothers should not be reduced to the level of brood-animals on a farm, no matter how high the compensation. Anyway, it'll be the medical and legal pimps who get most of the money in that transaction - and they're usually male - there's your feminist issue.

And if all you can afford for a surrogate baby is $10,000, perhaps you should smarten up and not add another child to the ranks of the poor.

Certainly not nowadays, when it seems more judicious to reduce the population altogether.

Read "The Handmaid's Tale", by Margaret Atwood.

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» RE: Really... Posted by: Longdream
» RE: eally... Posted by: sureshot45
» RE: eally... Posted by: teddy
» RE: eally... Posted by: Longdream
» RE: eally... Posted by: teddy
» RE: Really... Posted by: Longdream
» RE: eally... Posted by: teddy
» RE: Really... Posted by: Longdream
» well-said Posted by: goatini

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The Irony
Posted by: Phe on Jul 26, 2009 12:14 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of posts citing how people need to adopt or help all of these poor homeless sick and dying children, yet you badmouth people who are WEALTHY and adopt a lot fo chilre. What about the couple who was killed in Florida who had over 17 adopted children? Do you not harp on them for their love affair with parenthood? Their selfishness? Their need to collect special needs children? It seems to me like on the whole the consensus here is that women who don't abort every single pregnancy should be infertile so she isn't overpopulating the earth and everyone does something to help approved couples adopt 1 child each of the abused neglected emotionally scarred for life at-risk children. But please adopt European, let the babies in Africa die. Right? Racist, sexist, pigs you are.

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» RE: The Irony Posted by: Longdream
» RE: The Irony Posted by: Phe
» RE: Frankly-- Posted by: Longdream

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You are comparing apples and oranges here
Posted by: wireup on Jul 26, 2009 3:39 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No one is complaining about people who want to ADOPT already born children.

The problem is people who want to CREATE more children. We have more than enough children to go around for anyone who WANTS children. But to bring more children into the world - when there are already children waiting to be adopted - is criminal, as far as I'm concerned.

This idiotic need to reproduce one's self is crazy. If you want children, give a home to an unwanted child instead of reproducing yourself. What is the big deal with making a carbon copy of yourself? There are too many people in the world as it is. Don't add more!

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The question isn't who can afford it, it's are they paying enough?
Posted by: ladyoracle on Jul 27, 2009 4:43 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am not concerned with the rights of infertile people who can't afford a surrogate mother. I am not concerned about that because I am not concerned about whether only rich people can buy a Porshe. Porshe makes a limited amount of cars with top notch materials and specialized labor in order to name their price. Maybe you want one as much as the CEO across town, but it ain't happening. Tough. There's no room for emotion in capitalism. If everyone who wanted a Porshe could just go buy one, there'd be too many of them on the road and not enough labor and materials to make them all at the present level of quality...

Do you get that metaphor? If everyone who wanted a surrogate baby could get one with minimal sacrifice, there'd be even more "too many" people in the world and less adoption happening. Not to mention less people just going childless and doing other altruistic things.

More importantly, the question should never be "shall we lower the price?" for a feminist. The question should be "are surrogate mothers being paid enough, provided adequate health care, and educated on their rights and obligations?" The surrogate mothers are the poor in this conversation who need protection.

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Pro-choice is pro-choice
Posted by: KrisLea on Jul 27, 2009 7:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Any of us who are willing to march and demand a woman's right to choose must accept that that right to reproductive choice includes, by definition, any reproductive choice.
I personally think all of the infertility treatment and glorification of multiple births is a bit sick, but if I am a defender of choice, I must also respect others making a choice with which I don't agree.

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Another submission from Planet Clueless
Posted by: doodahman on Jul 27, 2009 12:36 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I never equated feminism with mental retardation, but after seeing what counts for "feminist" views on this site, I'm considering it.

It's a feminist conundrum. On the one hand, why shouldn't surrogates be able to charge as much as they want for something they provide with their bodies? No one suggests that we limit the amount men can charge for lifting heavy planks of wood on a construction site, to name a ridiculous example. And I see almost nothing written about how men should sell their sperm for bargain-basement dollars to ensure even poor women can buy a vial.

Oh, har dee har har har. Yeah, that's why basic laborers get paid six figures, because no one puts a limit on it. Oh damn, that's rich, mighty rich.

As to the second example, I'll wager there is no commodity more easily picked up for a song than jism. I know of no instance where any woman, poor or otherwise, has been priced out of the semen market, assuming that she's willing to take it straight from the tap.

I mean, come on Alternet. Surely there must be other submissions that aren't as incredibly stupid as this one to publish.

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Not a Woman
Posted by: Red State Gal on Jul 27, 2009 11:03 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A woman who could give birth to her own child, but rather passes off that "chore" to a poorer woman in order to spare herself discomfort is despicable. She might as well be a man.

Red State Gal
RedStateFeminists

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right to life?
Posted by: sureshot45 on Jul 28, 2009 6:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
why do so many posters on here think they are more entitled to be alive than anyone else? if you think you are such a drain on resources..i can think of a solution.

so..since your mother was 'entitled' to have a child..you can live the rest of your days bitching about other families desiring children?

or..you could make room..since you are of no greater value (probably more of a drain on resources) than an infant born today would be.

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Did you actually read "The Handmaid's Tale"?
Posted by: susanhathaway on Jul 28, 2009 7:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ms. Richmond states: "... surrogates will inevitably wonder if fairer compensation ... is in order. While it would be fairer to them, it would make the practice unaffordable for all but the elite: a situation that bears some resemblance to Margaret Atwood's dystopic novel The Handmaid's Tale."

If you go back and reread "The Handmaid's Tale," you will see that the "handmaids" of the title were not compensated AT ALL. They were slaves kept for breeding purposes. How providing more compensation directly to surrogate mothers would "resemble" that horrific fictional scenario is not quite clear, although in theory a backlash against all surrogate fees could conceivably (pun intended) lead to legislation to limit surrogates' rights via some "it's all about the babies" argument depicting surrogates as little more than incubators (as the ruling class in "The Handmaid's Tale" attempted to do).

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blare premire
Posted by: itouch backup on Jul 30, 2009 7:37 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]

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Surrogacy Exploits Women
Posted by: AdoptAuthor on Jul 30, 2009 7:51 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Richmond totally misses the real conundrum, despite mentioning Handmaid's Tale.

Surrogacy is NOT about labor such as cutting wood or shoveling coal. Surrogacy produced a human being who usually is clueless, while ignoring children who might benefit from adoption.

Nor is it similar to selling sperm as that does not involve risking major c-section surgery and even death.

Surrogacy is a indeed a serious conundrum for feminists and all woman as it exploits poverty and commodifies children.

Paid surrogacy is morally repugnant and that is why it is illegal in most of the world. In India, women are being used like prostitutes and soon such baby farms will be in central and south america, Africa and wherever there is poverty.

But...before long, the elite will just as easily clone themselves!

Mirah Riben, author, "The Stork Market: America's Multi-Billon Dollar Unregulated Adoption Industry"
http://www.AdvocatePublications.com

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Anybody heard of ADOPTION?
Posted by: MEL810 on Jul 31, 2009 1:21 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With all the children out there in the US & worldwide that need homes, I take issue with most of the people that decide to go for surrogacy or even in-vitro treatment to produce children.
The trouble is the people doing the surrogacy and treatment are people who are usually (although not always) affluent whites who want a perfect new white infant.
Older children, handicapped children, groups of siblings and children of mixed race stay stuck in state care.
If your true motive is the of love children and you have the desire to parent, having your own genetic infant is not as important.
The world is over-populated. Let's take care of children who are already here and need care rather than producing another child out of neurosis and vanity.

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as IF we don't have enough unwanted kids..
Posted by: mramell50 on Jul 31, 2009 9:25 PM   
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Now the rich can buy one and all the pro lifers are screaming every woman HAS to give birth...sooner or later it'll be mandatory that all fertile women HAVE to have babies whether they want them or not, but the strange thing...Once all these unwanted kids are tossed in the trash heap of the world nobody wants to pay for them and what if your souroGutt kid turns out butt ugly? Toss it out on the streets too.. We don;t want ugly kids now so we?
I never did like that honker nosed bitch..now i hate her phony prettiness.. i think she looks like her face was shit out by a horse..

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