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'He Thought a Baby Would Keep Me in His Life Forever': When Partner Abuse Isn't a Bruise But a Pregnant Belly

By Lynn Harris, AlterNet. Posted June 26, 2009.


Intimate partner violence doesn't always show up in police photos as swollen bruises. Instead, the evidence might be the victim's pregnant belly.

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Janey (not her real name) was 19 when she fell "head over heels" for a guy six years her senior.

He moved in just weeks after their first date, which was before she learned about the cheating. When she confronted him, repeatedly, he raped her, repeatedly. When she told him to move out, he threatened her with more violence. Meanwhile, condoms: not happening. Hormonal birth control like the Pill, she says, made her sick.  

"The first time I got pregnant against my will, I had the baby," she says. Along with several STDs. (He'd been her only partner.) After a stint in jail for violating an ex's order of protection, he was back, promising never to hurt her, gushing about family happiness.

The -- yes -- second pregnancy occurred when she'd run out of money for emergency contraception, having purchased it more than 10 times before from her college nurse. He refused to help her pay for an abortion. "He thought another baby would keep me in his life forever," Janey says.  

Thankfully, he was wrong. She finally secured an order of protection; he wound up back in jail for separate reasons. Janey graduated from college, has a good job and now lives in Arizona with two healthy children.  

Media attention to the Chris Brown-Rihanna saga, which technically ended Monday when Brown pleaded guilty to felony assault, certainly got people talking -- for better or for worse -- about teen dating abuse and intimate partner violence.

But many violence and public-health experts agree that at least one major issue was, and has for too long remained, missing from that conversation. For girls like Janey, as you can see, partner violence doesn't show up in police photos as swollen bruises. Instead, the evidence might be their swollen, pregnant bellies. 

Sexual coercion and "reproductive control," including contraceptive sabotage, are a common, and devastating, facet of dating and domestic abuse. A growing number of studies, experts and young women themselves are testifying to boyfriends demanding unprotected sex, lying about "pulling out," hiding or destroying birth control -- flushing pills down the toilet, say -- and preventing (or, in some cases, forcing) abortion.

The implications for young women's and public health are profound, among them unintended pregnancy, miscarriage and STDs, including HIV. (Some STDs are cured easily -- if tested for and treated -- while others can lead to chronic pelvic pain, ectopic pregnancy, even infertility.) While this problem is not brand-new, only now are we starting to understand its scope — and, ideally, starting to learn from its consequences. 

"Partner violence is not just about hitting," says Patti Giggans, executive director of Peace Over Violence, noting how long it took to raise awareness that "partner violence" occurs at all. Now another alarm must be sounded, she says:  "Sexual coercion is the most secretive part."  

Secretive, and pervasive. In what is said to be the first study in adolescent health literature "to document the role of abusive partners in promoting teen pregnancy," Elizabeth Miller, M.D., Ph.D., assistant professor in pediatrics at the University of California, Davis School of Medicine, found that among 61 racially and ethnically diverse girls in Boston's poorest neighborhoods, 53 were in were in abusive and sexually active relationships at the time they were interviewed -- and 26 percent of them said their partners were "actively trying to get them pregnant by manipulating condom use, sabotaging birth control," or simply sweet-talking them about "making beautiful babies" together. Several reported hiding their birth control from their boyfriends; one girl told researchers her boyfriend "tried to get me pregnant on purpose, and then made me have an abortion."  


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RE: 'She Thought a Baby Would Keep Him in Her Life Forever'
Posted by: mjglow on Jun 26, 2009 1:08 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You have options. If you don't want to be a father, don't make a girl pregnant. You have control over where your sperm goes...provided, of course, that there are women out there stupid enough to sleep with an apathetic jerk like you.

How does calling this poor woman a 'silly bitch' help your cause?

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» RE: Apathetic? Posted by: mjglow
You definitely only read the headline
Posted by: Fishbone Soldier on Jun 26, 2009 5:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There's no way you actually bothered to read this article. Thanks for the insightful comment, though!

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Moron
Posted by: rickiey on Jun 26, 2009 7:39 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Honky, this isn't ABOUT the fact that females have post-conception choice and men don't and are forced into involuntary servitude. You've already made that point, but it has NOTHING to do with this.

She was RAPED, dumbass. She wasn't alowed her PRE-conception choice, and the rapist denied her the POST-conception choice.

She's a rape victim, and yes, she deserves some sympathy. And her rapist deserves serious incarceration (to put it mildly).

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» RE: Moron Posted by: Lilly
» RE: Moron Posted by: rickiey
» RE: Moron Posted by: SalB
I pity your partner (if you have one) & your family
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on Jun 26, 2009 10:23 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
don't know what egg hatched you.


but your humanity is seriously in question.

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» Hypocrite Posted by: sirios
similar thing happened to me...
Posted by: mjglow on Jun 26, 2009 1:00 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
only not so violent.

But the general idea was the same, got me pregnant on purpose because we were in the process of breaking up and he thought that this would keep me in his life. It actually made me feel far less guilty about dumping his sorry ass because this sort of thing tells you that he doesn't love you but wants to control you.

Also, thank the gods for options and choice and the fact that I live in Holland where abortion isn't only available, but also free of charge. My life wasn't in danger from lunatics when I went to the clinic. I would've been stuck with this jerk my whole life had I kept the baby and I was only 20 years old at the time. No regrets.

One thing I don't get about people who do this - and yes, Honky, I will include girls in this, too, because I know people whose girlfriends got pregnant for this purpose - why would you want to FORCE someone to be with you?? Do you really want to be in a relationship where you KNOW that the person is only there because they feel obligated? Why would you want to be with someone who doesn't love you? Is being alone really worse than being with someone you had to force to be with you? What kind of a life is that for the child?

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» RE: It is called rape Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: It is called rape Posted by: lyta
» RE: misogynistic Posted by: WyrdSister
» RE: how do you Posted by: WyrdSister
» Can you read? Posted by: mjglow
» my mistake and apologies Posted by: felipe
pity me I'm a victim
Posted by: mrfixdit on Jun 26, 2009 2:24 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What a pitiful piece of "man hate". People (male and female) need to take responsibility for the choices they make. Sadly though it seems the "pity me I am a victim" mantra seems to be the norm.

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» RE: pity me I'm a victim Posted by: mjglow
» RE: pity me I'm a victim Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» RE: pity me I'm a victim Posted by: mjglow
» as stated above: Posted by: goatini
» RE: pity me I'm a victim Posted by: Renee84
» RE: pitiful piece of "man hate" Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: head in the sand Posted by: WyrdSister
» RE: pity me I'm a victim Posted by: rickiey
Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner
Posted by: Moonray on Jun 26, 2009 2:40 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Female journalists are constantly searching for new ways to describe women as victims, but this article takes the cake. Any woman who can't control her own reproduction in this era of multiple birth control techniques needs to have her other end examined.

Besides, consider the millions of men who have been duped into marriage by women who "accidentally" became pregnant. Those numbers would totally overshadow the number of women who somehow managed to get pregnant "against their will." In all, this is one of the most amusing articles Alternet has ever printed.

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» the number of LOSER deadbeat Dads Posted by: BlueBerry PickN
Abuse concerns everyone
Posted by: Alsu on Jun 26, 2009 4:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I must confess I am a bit shocked about the hateful and angry comments to this article. Remember: we are talking about human beings who survived violence, and their children, who should be considered as victims too. Abuse concerns men, women and children. Human relationships are difficult. Instead of respect, love and compassion you have fear, anger and distrust in some cases. To rape a woman with the intention of getting her pregnant is one form of abuse, to lie about contraception and get pregnant in order to tie a man to your life is another. Men can become victims of abuse by other men or by women, as well as women can be victims of abuse by women and men. There is no such a thing as a non violent sex. But instead of blaming the victim, who has lived trough a mind blowing spiral of emotional and physical violence, we should try to give support, enabling them to recover. And lets not forget the children, who are the most innocent victims in all of this. They too need support. Abusers should have the possibility to seek council. The primary goal must be to destroy the vicious circle of violence, which keeps perpetuating itself.

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Immature men need their mommies to take the blame...
Posted by: luzmejor on Jun 26, 2009 5:50 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Especially when they are out on their own and can't get or keep a job.

Their girlfriends are also their mother substitutes and with a baby on the way, welfare checks help provide a plausible excuse for needing a girl to support you.

For a segment of the population, just getting a girl pregnant is enough proof they are grown-ups. It's awfully hard to convince anybody else of that, though.

Some boys cash in by getting their Mothers to share her house and raise the children while the girlfriend goes out to work to support him and the family.

You've got to understand the real nature of boys who feel entitled to be financially supported by females and yet feel they are always entitled to be "The Boss."

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This article is a joke, right?
Posted by: whataniceboy on Jun 26, 2009 6:33 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For all the good articles alternet posts, this one is quite ridiculous. Not one mention about how many women purposefully get pregnant to trap men, or how it in fact takes both parties to produce a child. If you don't want a kid, but still wanna catch a fuching coch, use a rubber, or quit complaining. Irresponsible parties deserve what they get in this manner.

Don't waste our time, or your page space with crap like this.

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» RE: This article is a joke, right? Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» RE: id be wonderful Posted by: WyrdSister
» RE: id be wonderful Posted by: felipe
» RE: id be wonderful Posted by: Renee84
» RE: id be wonderful Posted by: felipe
» RE: id be wonderful Posted by: YogiBear
» no, NOT the truth, exactly. Posted by: goatini
» PS: Posted by: goatini
» RE: PS: Posted by: whataniceboy
» thanks for proving my point Posted by: goatini
» RE: thanks for proving my point Posted by: whataniceboy
» oh hai Sandy "Girl" Posted by: goatini
» RE: oh hai Sandy "Girl" Posted by: sandygirl77
» welcome to teh Intertubez! Posted by: goatini
» RE: welcome to teh Intertubez! Posted by: uncledaddy
» RE: welcome to teh Intertubez! Posted by: sandygirl77
» what is wrong with you Posted by: sandygirl77
» ha! Posted by: whataniceboy
» epic FAIL Posted by: goatini
deliberate pregnancy
Posted by: astudent on Jun 26, 2009 7:03 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am appalled by the comments thus far on this board that condemn women in "relationships" who are being forced to become pregnant.

I, thankfully, have never had to endure what is termed "reproductive abuse" in this article. However, I know someone who has. A dear friend of mine, in her first marriage, was forced to become pregnant. How was this accomplished? Due to other, unrelated circumstances, she had been very ill and in the hospital. When she returned home, she was still confined to bed. At the time of her illness, she and her husband had been separated, but he came back to their residence "to nurse her back to health" when she came home from the hospital. He took advantage of his time there by having sex with her while she was deeply asleep. (So, all you posters who blame women, how, exactly, was she supposed to use birth control? She wasn't even in a position to consent to sex - and no, sleeping in the same residence does not constitute consent!)

Added to his taking advantage of her sleeping, he took advantage of his knowledge of her cycle to time this abuse to the part of her cycle in which she was most likely to become pregnant. It worked, and 9 months later she gave birth to their child. By that time she had left him, left the state in which they lived, and travelled halfway across the country to get away from him.

His reasoning for deliberately impregnating her while she was very ill and in no condition to consent or require birth control methods be used? They were separated, and he didn't want her to divorce him. He actually thought that if she were having his baby, she would stay with him. Obviously, it didn't work, but that is why he raped her at the time in her cycle at which she was most likely to get pregnant.

That said, yes, there are women who try to trap men by getting pregnant. They are somewhat less likely, however, to push their partner down the stairs when they don't their way (if for no other reason than size differential).

Despite there being a few asinine excuses for women who deliberately try to get pregnant for the purpose of keeping a guy around, they're not all that common. Every self-respecting woman I know would not only never consider doing such a thing herself, but openly and thoroughly condemns those women who do try such stunts. So, all you commenters who are busy blaming only the women, where is the comparable male attitude about men who try to knock up their partners to make the partner stay in the relationship? Regardless of whether the partner doing the forcing is a man or a woman, forced reproduction is abuse. So why don't we all, male and female, acknowledge that there are members of both sexes who try to force reproduction and work together to stop it?

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» RE: deliberate pregnancy Posted by: Seranvali
I absolutely
Posted by: WyrdSister on Jun 26, 2009 7:14 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
LOVE all the male denial of this article. Seems to have hit a nerve?

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» a big throbbing nerve Posted by: Beck
Messed up
Posted by: AAWeeble3 on Jun 26, 2009 7:24 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dude that is pretty messed up no matter how you look at it!

RT
Absolute Anonymity

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I GUESS IT'S POSSIBLE
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jun 26, 2009 7:27 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some wierd guy meets an equally wierd woman and the scenario plays out accourding to the article. But I don't see it as a threat to woman that should be addressed immediately. It's overblown and not even close to real life. Probably not a good read for a fourteen year old girl. It's kind of creepy. ANNA

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» RE: you guess... Posted by: WyrdSister
» with you on this one... Posted by: ellie
Oh pahleeeesse
Posted by: doodahman on Jun 26, 2009 7:28 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is no limit to the idiotic arguments people make to absolve themselves of any responsibility for their own predicaments. This is pathetic. You want to be victims? Fine. Then shut up and be a victim. You refuse to take responsibility for your own situation, why should anyone else give a damn? It's not the world's job to keep you from making self destructive choices. In fact, the quality of the gene pool demands otherwise.

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» RE: Oh pahleeeesse Posted by: WyrdSister
» RE: Oh pahleeeesse Posted by: doodahman
» RE: Oh pahleeeesse Posted by: WyrdSister
» RE: Oh pahleeeesse Posted by: doodahman
» RE: Oh pahleeeesse Posted by: rickiey
» RE: Oh pahleeeesse Posted by: doodahman
» RE: Oh pahleeeesse Posted by: WyrdSister
» RE: Oh pahleeeesse Posted by: doodahman
» RE: Oh pahleeeesse Posted by: xmvince
» RE: Oh pahleeeesse Posted by: doodahman
» RE: Oh pahleeeesse Posted by: DkPhoenix
» RE: Oh pahleeeesse Posted by: Renee84
Uh huh
Posted by: doodahman on Jun 26, 2009 7:50 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Uh, let's consider this theory that abusive men knock up women in order to "keep them around." On earth, or more particularly, the USA, when a woman has a baby and wants out of the relationship, she gets to either keep the baby or abandon it. If she keeps it, the man is obligated to pay to support it for 18 years, his ability to parent the child is subject largely to the whims of the woman. With a protective order, he can't even go near the woman or child.

So how the pregnancy creates an unbreakable bond, I cannot see. The reason the woman stays with the abusive man has nothing to do with the pregnancy, it has to do with the same pathologies that causes the fool woman to stay with the abuser. This is just another pathetic excuse for why they do not take the minimally intelligent actions to protect themselves and get out of their situations.

If she abandons it, either to adoption or to the father, she'll likely end up paying no child support because she'll claim she's unable to earn a sufficient income, and will probably end up pumping a few additional rug rats to consume what little she does earn (or take from the state).

And of course, she is also privilege to destroy the child if she can get the $75 together before the third trimester.

That's reality, sisters. Now, of course, in a nation of 300 million people, at least a third of whom are mouthbreathing morons, you will have situations like those described crop up. But society cannot structure itself around preventing our biggest dumbasses from self-created catastrophes. Just Can't Do IT.

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» RE: Uh huh Posted by: ellie
» RE: Uh huh Posted by: cmaciain
» RE: Uh huh Posted by: doodahman
» RE: Uh huh Posted by: gorkman
» Speaking of ignorant Posted by: BlueTigress
» RE: Speaking of ignorant Posted by: doodahman
Anecdotal Stories do not equal Societal Problems
Posted by: NthnBrazil on Jun 26, 2009 8:38 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I find it so tiresome when people pick and choose what they they want solid evidence of and what they will support based on one-off stories. If this is a legitimate threat facing women in the US today, show me the numbers. How often does this happen?

I'm willing to bet that if those defending this article as some informative piece shining a light on a real problem were given a similar anecdotal article about women who uses abortion as birth conrol, they would be quick to point out how the vast majority of women etc etc.

This example is no better or worse.

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» And just to clarify. . . . Posted by: NthnBrazil
I caught my 'practise husband' hiding my pills in the late 80s
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on Jun 26, 2009 10:21 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So before we broke up...

I kept a hidden month of pills at work for a month or two to figure out what the hell was going on...
finally, my patience & willingness to 'see past an easily solvable misunderstanding' evaporated as his bad behaviour continued to escalate...

...then I confronted him with it at emergency when he was getting his collarbone reset.
Gave him a good poke in the shoulder & pointed out that he was sentencing me to a hell of a lot worse life-changing events, trust & rights violations, pain & misery than his whinging ass was enduring for an hour with pain meds.

punted his worthless ass.

Never regretted it for a moment.

I pity those women who are made to feel their power/vulnerability resides in their uterus.

I'd say 'fuck those assholes' who try to manipulate people to do their bidding through pressure, entrapment & sheer subterfuge.

but then fucking those bastards is what gets us into trouble in the first place.

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Observations from a long time behavioral health clinician in Phoenix
Posted by: stasha on Jun 26, 2009 10:41 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wouldn't doubt that this article stemming from research is verifiable and that the premises have a basis. Working in the field of young and most often financially impoverished families, for 18 years I've also come to the conclusion that frequently, the young women who end up in abusive relationships and become pregnant had been physically and/or sexually abused as children. Due to the horrendous pain from those experiences, the stage seems to be set for seeking to make up for the lack of healthy affection. It appears that this easily leads to searching for "love" through relationships with men but of course, not knowing what a healthy relationship is, due to lack of a role model in their home and the lack of self esteem caused by the abuse. They seem drawn to men who are not healthy either-- most probably men who lived in similar households-the equivalents of their brothers. Drugs and alcohol used by both also serve to numb the emptiness and pain they experience. The article presents an important explanation for the pregnancies but I also think that these girls and young women may also, at somewhere less than a conscious level, (or maybe conscious at times) believe that becoming pregnant with a boyfriend's baby, will serve to keep him with her. Most often it doesn't work, but because of the huge unmet hunger for positive affection and their lack of insight, the women will keep on trying with the unhealthy men who may follow(who most likely were also abused and/or viewed domestic violence in their families, just as the young women did).

This article has given me the insight to see that there may also be an intent by the male- to keep a partner by "forcing pregnancy", as much as the female's intent. Neither have the capacity to follow through. Until these young people, men and women, hopefully reach a point of being able to seek help, it's a trajedy played over and over again. After each failed relationship and additional blows to self esteem, the pain only intensifies and the children suffer and likely will carry it on.
There is hope--continued working on breaking through the denial.

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Just a matter of common sense
Posted by: La Colombetta on Jun 26, 2009 11:17 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would say that even if a woman has indeed been a victim of horrendous abuse in her past, she doesn't have to keep repeating the pattern. I have been a victim of abuse myself as a child, but always do my best to catch myself if I ever seem to be using it as an excuse not to think straight. A man can make the same decision, even if he may have witnessed his father abusing his mother on a regular basis as a child.

We do need awareness and clarity more than ever as a society. Because at this point in time, having children is actually an environmentally irresponsible act. So having a child to keep someone in a relationship is indeed very childish, whether it is the man or the woman who is doing so. We are starting to see our choices affect the climate globally, which means that individual lives are more significant than we ever imagined. The age of consequence and karma is truly upon us. The choices of one just one young girl or boy can have a ripple effect, like rings in a pond when a stone is dropped in it. And if the earth is our pond, she's clearly a very polluted and drained one.

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» clinician in Phoenix Posted by: stasha
This thing does cut both ways...
Posted by: Pirate1 on Jun 26, 2009 11:18 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And never results in living the fantasy that motivated the action in the first place. Like it or not, both men and women during reproductive years are driven by forces not of the intellect but of glandular secretions, hormones and pheromones. They can make us crazy and do things that in hindsight get seen for their stupidity and lack of thought . One may look back and say, wow, I did that, but at the time, there was no calculation going on for the most part. Just biological urge to reproduce run amok, most of what is considered intellect is way at the back of the bus while the glands take charge... usually because the persons involved don't really have much of a life but are going through the motions of having a career or being a student. Often this is their parent's view of what they should be doing with their lives, or peer pressure or something like that and not something they ever really thought about to know if they even wanted. So after a few semesters or less or a few months on the job, they realize they never really wanted any of this and sometimes they meet someone and decide they are head over heels in love... glandular secretions can make even toad like people attractive enough to get in there and have at it. Later when a pregnancy results, other pressures come to bear. Churches have done a remarkable job in making women irrationally reject abortion as an option and after the bonding process of going through pregnancy and delivery, very few are able to give up their baby for adoption. So you have what so many Americans call normal. Married, not particularly liking each other but staying together til the child/children are grown, or divorced and dealing with child support, alimony, visitation rights and all that good stuff of American love. No wonder so many kids are estranged and uninterested in anything they see.

This is not to say that some men don't calculatedly try to impregnate a woman in hopes of keeping her or that some women say they have their diaphram or whatever in and knowingly do not. I've done it and had it done to me. I'm just saying that for the most part most of us need to go out into the field more and watch our primate relatives carry on. We are all driven by those same urges and were it not for our curious beliefs and the silly rules we impose on ourselvs and try to live by, we'd be as promiscuous and stress free as they are.

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This is no different than any other abuse.
Posted by: neko_sake on Jun 26, 2009 12:35 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is just another obvious conclusion that a woman needs to have a mind of her own before she can protect her body as her own, be it physical, psychological or sexual abuse. I cannot concurr that women like this should be looked down upon, because it is the same situation as domestic violence: fear. Abuse that manifests itself in a sexual manner is fueled by the same medium.

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MORE MISANDRIST SEXIST GARBAGE FROM ALTERNET
Posted by: rastaman on Jun 26, 2009 1:54 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
MAYBE YOU SHOULD GET OVER HATING MEN AND YOURSELVES BEFORE IT DESTROYS YOU.

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No Roses For Miss Victim
Posted by: Lilly on Jun 26, 2009 3:24 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am an old lady. I was already a grownup long before birth control pills became available and since then manymanymany more forms of contraception have become available. So I find this girl not a lovable victim but a pain in the ass. Women now have support undreamed of sixty years ago.

Was this girl some unsophisticated Daisy Mae from yonder up in the mountains, or perhaps a developmentally disabled person? Not if she'd been getting emergency contraception from her college nurse---she was a college student. She should have known that having unprotected sexual intercourse may result in pregnancy. The BF was raping her repeatedly? Why in hell was she still living with him? She had no money for contraception? 1) Why are we all contributing to Planned Parenthood and, 2) If she was 500 miles from a PPA, did she ask the college GYN for help? Also: I have worked in a university counseling center and can say that if the rapist/abuser was a student, his Dean would have liked to know about it so he/she could take appropriate action along the lines of calling the police and/or mandating counseling as an alternative to dismissal from the school. Women will never be empowered until they quit blaming other people for their woes.

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» Another Old Lady Here Posted by: Arlene
» RE: Another Old Lady Here Posted by: Hecate_magika
Liberal "nice guys" really Men's Rights Activists
Posted by: Skytha on Jun 26, 2009 3:56 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I love how Alternet, a site for progressive news, always draws out the true colors of those liberal "nice guys". It's all well and good until an article exposes some part of the patriarchy, and then they show up frothing and foaming at the mouth to make some ludicrous comment. Beware the "all for women's rights until it interferes with my dick" set.

I also find it highly amusing that we will believe in a second that a woman is malicious enough to get pregnant in order to keep a man, but when studies show men do the same thing it is seen to be a ridiculous diatribe of man hating.

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» Which ones? Posted by: mcubed
Human Rights?
Posted by: dcande01 on Jun 26, 2009 11:50 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Although I am waaaay to the left on most issues, I favor the right on reproductive issues. I will be glad to see the day on which the right to be born is seen as a human rights issue. It's all in how you frame it, and I'm also sick of seeing the word antichoice. It's prolife. Deal with it. For all of you who like to see pregnancy as a burden or a punishment, aren't you glad that your mother didn't feel that way?

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» Pro-Life? Posted by: BlueTigress
» And a vegan Posted by: Arlene
this article really is a joke, just like goatini
Posted by: sandygirl77 on Jun 27, 2009 3:40 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
goatini is a sad sad lady in need of clitoral stimulation. Please, anyone, send her a vibrator of some drugs she can overdose on.

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There's something to be said.....
Posted by: reikini on Jun 27, 2009 3:52 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let me count the bias: Gender, class, race, ability, sexual orientation, faith, age, -- find me one person who has not experienced crude, vicious, behavior -- Nor do I know of anyone who, intentionally, or unintentionally, has never caused bias-based pain to someone else and can claim innocence. It's a matter of degree, to be sure, and you can't know the depth of any individual's "pain" or tolerance, whether its for dental work or for institutionalized disenfranchisement...which, by the way, affects 95% of all of us these days.

Unfortunately, few of us have had the guidance, or exposure to someone with the tools to teach us how to push our intelligence and analytical skills out beyond that personal inferno of rage, perceived injustice, or blame. To get past the point of "this is about me, my personal opinion, my point of view." So it is really difficult to have in intelligent conversation about a charged issue without sinking to that cherished attitude and phrase "GFY." A personal favorite of all passionate advocates :0)

But F'ing ourselves is all that gets - and no matter how PO'd we feel inside, if we're going to be able to deal with all the things that make us mad and still make progress toward a better human experience, there's no escape from forcing ourselves to accept that with 300 million people in the US, alone, life is way too complex for any one person to know it all -- and that there are things going on that we just won't be able to understand. We also have to face the fact that "truth" shifts over time -- and although we'd all like an absolute frame of reference for how to live properly -- we're unlikely to ever find one that is exactly just or reasonable in every single person's beliefs or experience.

So what to do? I know that it's a matter of personal choice to listen, agree to disagree, and dedicate ourselves to mutual forbearance while negotiating our ways toward what we DO want, instead of just slogging around in the BS that constitutes what we DONT want. Even discussing hot issues in that way (e.g., I would like to see a standard of fairness that acknowledges that if you have sex, you're responsible for whatever comes of it."

or, how about this one:

"I know that outside of recognizing theft, domination, battery, murder, and exploitation, of any kind for personal gain, as unacceptable acts of human abuse, most of what I believe to be 'true' is colored by my background, culture, and experience, and is therefore potentially too subjective to serve as a rule of law for everybody else without collaborative investigation, comparison, and discussion. I know that really applying this kind of understanding is excruciatingly difficult because it means I have to change my mind and my habits when new facts show up, that I might have to survive not getting my way, or having to fess up, contribute, or make good, but I want to live in a world where this concept is the cultural norm and there is general willingness to approach conflict from a position of inquiry, negotiation, and learning, rather than "winning by intimidation, privileged status, or precedent."

Some folks are just not going to be willing to get their heads around this kind of thinking-- so they're probably going to self-select out of the conversation, which is a shame. But for those of us who can -- and who are patient, have endurance, and are still as passionately committed to fairness and justice as these postings mostly claim or express -- in a few centuries we might just be able to be proud to be human beings who used the opposable thumb and the power of creative intelligence to do more than consume, excrete, fornicate, and fight.

What a concept!

Can you bring that???

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i'm seriously offended by articles like this
Posted by: Bearzerker on Jun 27, 2009 8:03 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
all i hear about is how men abuse women but in reality the opposite is often more true and never reported... why, because

1.) men of substance where raised to never, ever hit a women [cowards and retards hit those unable to defend themselves] and
2.) men are often abashed to uncomfortable extremes when unable to bring home enough bacon for the family entire...

to me its a partnership whereas the 2 work as 1 for a common goal and or interests...

why are men always being portrayed as the evil twin in relationships when in reality its a 2 person ship of domestic state with 1 person working away from the family while the other nurtures children... or does needlepoint!

stop belittling the value that a good man brings to a family with shit articles like this... seriously

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Some observations.
Posted by: jasonchouinard on Jun 28, 2009 9:36 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Writing for news, even online, demands an 'angle' on some current event. Here that angle comes from the counterintuitiveness of the proposition that a subset of men want women to get pregnant as part of an abusive act or method of control. This somehow from the "Chris Brown-Rihanna saga" or a 'new' study on teen sex.

Unfortunately, it is weakly supported by a 2007 study where 14 girls aged 15-20, in a low income Boston neighborhood alleged their abusive boyfriends were, "actively trying to get them pregnant." The abstract further states: "Females' stories revealed that abusive male partners desiring pregnancy manipulated condom use, sabotaged birth control use, and made explicit statements about wanting her to become pregnant."

I say 'weakly' because nowhere do we find out how many of these girls became pregnant. It cannot be reproductive Coercion, without the baby. Nor does it bother to question why the women in this study would continue in sexual relationships with these men. Nor does it state if or how many of these women wanted to become pregnant. (The study is not weak, the use of the study as support, ie. the article itself, lacks strength.)

The article headlines with 'pregnant belly' as a potent image next to bruises but falls far short of providing any facts. Plus the idea of the article opens the counter position that must exist of Reproductive Coercion by women that get pregnant without/against the consent of their partner.

Then the article has Ms. Murray, a Ph.D. completely generalizing teen pregnancy with abuse: "I always tell other counselors that I'm training, 'When you see a pregnant teen girl, always, always assess for an abusive relationship, because 99 percent of the time, that will be the case.' "
Though Ms. Murray's experiences with this topic are vital, this quote trivializes the situation for readers looking for solid, reliable statistics to hang credibility on. And even still, while here you have reproductive built in, there is nothing supporting coercion.

Nothing else in the article supports the title or the byline. These are my observations.

** my opinion: This article tries to support "reproductive coercion" as a hidden, male-oriented facet of some abusive relationships. It fails while marginalizing the topic by misinterpreting a small population study and then using an over generalized hyperbolic comment. Also, there were no comments by or mention of male academics on this subject though their works were linked.
The article did however, bring the issue into the spotlight, foment a discussion, and link to some valuable resources.

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porn pregnancies
Posted by: littlepitcher on Jun 28, 2009 1:15 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The facts: pregnancy porn is sold, breasts are an advertising and MSM sales tool, "real men" are daddies, and the nasty little subtext that daddy might want to try little girls. Reality is that young men may well be forcing and/or defrauding young women into pregnancy. Additionally, the pregnancy will bring Medicaid to subsidize her medical bills, WIC and a food "stamp" card for additional groceries, and possibly even Section 8 housing.

Finally, dependency makes women pliable, easily threatened, subservient. Men like freedom for themselves, hostage status for "their" women.

And, so-called "liberal" men often view women as animated versions of the blow-up plastic doll, and have the "Take the sex, she has plenty, that pussy doesn't wear out" mentality. As much as I detest Palin, the comments I've seen on liberal boards from boy-bimbos still disgust me. No reason, logic, political or sociological intelligence will be found in their discourse, just gutter sniping and truly childish insults.

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Happened to me too
Posted by: SylviaR on Jun 29, 2009 3:03 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My ex-fiance wanted nothing more than a baby. Dispite my college plans and life expectations he insisted on children now. I though he was respecting my wishes when we used condoms, but no. I caught him putting pin pricks in them in an already successful attempt at getting me pregnant. I begged him to get the money for an abortion, i was only 18 and starting college in the fall, but he wouldn't. He kept me damn near prisoner until i was about 2 1/2 months along (he didn't even get the prenatal care i needed if he wanted to keep the baby so much). When i finally got away from him i told my mom who got me an appointment at an abortion clinic the next day. I felt some guilt, and this was the end of the relationship. Last time i saw my ex was as he left me crying at a gas station, his last words to me were "you murdering c**t." I know i made the right choice, but something needs to be done about men like him. I was lucky, but many women aren't so much.

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» RE: Happened to me too Posted by: rickiey
» RE: Happened to me too Posted by: SylviaR
» RE: Happened to me too Posted by: rickiey
Who is responsible?
Posted by: Paxmana1 on Jun 30, 2009 3:15 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When I was a child my mother was first teacher because that has been the way since time immemorial.

The child male or female has a malleable mind until the age of 7. Liberated women take their maternity leave and hie off back to work. Then comes the early childhood indoctrination and then the State Mandated Education.

I am not sure how many genders we have nowadays but I do hear that some children are seriously confused. But then again I am not surprised especially when I read this ..

ADL's World of Difference program online speaks to parents and educators; Dr. Debra Byrnes is quoted: "children begin developing attitudes about various groups in society as early as ages three or four. Initially such attitudes are quite flexible. However, as children grow older such attitudes become more difficult to change." To an organization committed to changing American minds and undermining traditional viewpoints, incipient "homophobia" is clearly a problem. Kids need to be warned against such "bias" early.

So exactly what is going on? I ask because we seem to be confusing many things and in the chaos have failed our children, unless of course one supports this loss of our children.

Where were all the Mothers in this matter because it would appear that a lot of mothers were absent from their sons and daughters upbringing.

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» Stale Posted by: Arlene
Made me aware...
Posted by: bnvasquez on Jul 1, 2009 6:48 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am really grateful for reading this article. It's made me a lot more aware to different types of abuse.

Why are there guys posting all these misogynistic comments? Ignorance isn't bliss people...

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No Longer Quivering
Posted by: deni_haven on Jul 1, 2009 8:29 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wow ~ this adds a whole new level of concern for "Quiverfull" moms who are leaving their "family planning" up to the Lord ~ no birth control, lots of kids. Guess that leaves them perpetually pregnant and vulnerable. Scary stuff.

No Longer Quivering

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Age Discrepancy
Posted by: Red State Gal on Jul 3, 2009 7:23 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In my experience, this phenomenon of pushing for condomless/pill-less sex happens very often when we are talking about 14 or 15 year old girls who are preyed upon by 20-something men. The girls probably didn't consent to their first sex with this guy in the first place--y'know, the kind of sex where he just rushes on while you are trying to squirm away. He's got all the knowledge; she is ignorant and naive. These predatory relationships are for the "rush" the guy gets; he "marks" the girl as if he had urinated on a fire hydrant. I think it is the age discrepancy which reveals the truth about the abusive nature of the relationship.

Red State Gal
RedStateFeminists

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