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When We Talk About Health Care, We're Forgetting One Important Group: The Already Insured

By Michael Bader, AlterNet. Posted June 19, 2009.


The suffering fostered by our system isn't limited to those who can't afford access to it. And their voices should be part of the debate, too.

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The New York Times recently ran an article about the movement within primary-care medicine to develop systems that allow doctors to spend more time with their patients.

New technologies enabling doctors to electronically record, store and manage records, handle appointments, bill insurance companies, refill prescriptions and communicate directly with patients are allowing physicians to spend more time seeing fewer patients while maintaining their incomes.

One physician moved from a large clinic where she was required to see 25 patients per day to a smaller, more efficiently run practice where she saw only 12. Instead of only treating presenting symptoms, she was able to better understand her patients' entire history. Another doctor made house calls, managing most of his practice through special software on his laptop. Both providers maintained regular contact with their patients via e-mail.

There is overwhelming evidence that patients who get more time with and attention from their providers do better. Compliance and follow-up improves. Fewer medication errors are made. Hospitalization and re-admissions decrease. Benefits accrue not only to patients but to doctors, who feel more engaged, successful and fulfilled in their work. And, of course, society benefits in the form of lower medical costs. It's a win-win proposition all around.

Yet the progressive side in the political debate about health care tends to neglect this aspect of quality health care in favor of issues of access and cost. Who will be covered and who will pay for it dominates the discussion. Care for those with none, cheaper care for those with some, guarantees of care of everyone -- these are our goals.

But what about people who already have insurance, whether from their employers or because they can afford it? What's their stake in reform? What needs of theirs are addressed by the campaign for universal coverage? Are we writing them off as potential allies or relying on their altruism and basic liberal sensibilities for their support? In either case it's a mistake.

The pain and suffering fostered by the American health care system isn't limited to those who can't afford access to it. It occurs every day in the many ways people feel treated like a thing, and not a person, in their interactions with their providers. If we can find creative ways to put relationships on a par with cost and access at the heart of our campaign, we might energize people who today are on the sidelines of this struggle.

Behind debates about efficiency, technology, compliance and treatment outcomes lay the transformative power of relationships. The relationship between patient and doctor, it's quantity and quality, is powerfully implicated in medical outcomes.

For many people who do have medical coverage, getting in contact with a doctor is difficult, mediated as it is by labyrinthine office procedures, phone queues or office policies that simply prohibit it. Once an appointment is made, not always a simple matter, patients often wait for a long time.

When they eventually see their doctors, they are made to feel that their problems, questions and concerns are taking up too much of their providers' time, which is apportioned in 5- to 15-minute increments. Referrals to specialists often take weeks or months. Follow-up is usually left to the patient, who may or may not be proactive enough to do so.

The result is what psychologists call an "anxious attachment" to the doctor and to the medical system in general. Lacking a secure sense that one is correctly understood and reliably cared for, patients give up, become cynical or nervously dependent and needy and fail to internalize the treatment and care that is being offered. Treatment outcomes suffer, prevention strategies founder, hospitalizations and emergency-room visits increase, and everyone involved -- including taxpayers -- pays the price.

When a doctor has time to spend with a patient, a more trusting and caretaking relationship can develop. Patients feel understood. Doctors learn about patients' real lives and social context, which enable them to tailor their treatment to the idiosyncratic needs of the three-dimensional people under their care. It is axiomatic that when someone who is sick feels understood, he or she feels better, more engaged and more likely to take care of him or herself.

These issues are exaggerated among people who have no or limited access to care. But there isn't a person I know who has medical insurance who doesn't have a story about neglect or mistreatment at the hands of the medical system, who doesn't share the frustration of not being able to get through to the doctor or of the latter being unresponsive to his or her needs.

Recently, a family member asked me for help with her 17-year-old daughter, who had been suffering from intense back pain for two months. This girl eventually saw her primary physician at a local HMO, who told her that only the physiatrist in charge of physical medicine (including physical therapy) could order an MRI.

When she went to the PT department, she was told that she first had to have physical therapy for four to six sessions before the physiatrist would see her and, if necessary, order an MRI. My friend raised hell and got the physiatrist to order an MRI before physical therapy began, although it took 10 days to schedule. She was then told that it would be another 10 days before she could meet with the physiatrist, who would read the MRI, evaluate her daughter, and recommend treatment.


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See more stories tagged with: health care, health insurance, heath care reform

Michael Bader is a psychologist and psychoanalyst in San Francisco. He is the author of Arousal: The Secret Logic of Sexual Fantasies, and Male Sexuality: Why Women Don't Understand It -- and Men Don't Either. He has written extensively about psychology and politics.

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Time Spent With Doctors....
Posted by: drricklippin on Jun 19, 2009 3:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...Is obviously important.How can one possibly have a "healing-therapeutic" encounter with a physician in just a few minutes? It's bizarre to believe so.

Also many of the insured are required to spend countless hours fighting with insurance company flunkies about bills which is an abyssmal insult to/assault on the ill and injured.

Finally- I've use the phrase that,while the uninsured don't recieve enough care,the insured(most of us)often receive too much medicine, surgery and technology.(But ironically NOT enough time with doctors).

So I say that the insured have been both duped and swindled by the high tech-high cost profiteers.

All the above is what our US health care system has bought us and why it needs to change NOW.

Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton,Pa

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» RE: Time Spent With Doctors.... Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: Time Spent With Doctors.... Posted by: drricklippin
» RE: Time Spent With Doctors.... Posted by: pelican beak
More time with a physician can result in fewer tests...
Posted by: mjabele on Jun 19, 2009 3:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...better explanations, more discussion of test results and treatments, and more emphasis on prevention.

Given the (present) need for a physician to write out orders and prescriptions at the end of each visit, a 10- or 15-minute scheduled visit with a patient really means 5 or 10 minutes of "face time". This is barely enough time to gather a history of the patient's concerns/complaints, let alone enough time to perform even a focused physical exam. Many physicians use imaging techniques - MRI scans, ultrasounds, echocardiograms - to substitute for physical exams in such tight situations.

As an example of this, a patient with a characteristic history for migraine headaches and a benign neurologic exam, guidelines suggest imaging tests be deferred and treatment initiated based on the history and exam findings. But a detailed neurologic exam takes a bit longer to perform than a lung or heart exam, and consequently many doctors feel forced by time constraints to skip it. They order the brain MRI instead, which serves as a kind of "surrogate" neurologic exam - at a cost of about a thousand dollars.

With regard to counseling patients, it stands to reason that patients who don't feel they understand the purpose of the physician's referrals and/or prescriptions, or who have questions about their proposed treatments that the physician hasn't managed to answer, are less likely to be adherent to their treatment plans than patients who DO feel satisfied in this respect. And yet, most providers barely have enough time to place the prescriptions in their patients' hands before they have to run off into another exam room to see another patient.

I myself left the field of primary care, after 15 years, about six months ago in order to become an inpatient hospitalist physician. I now have an average of 30-45 minutes to see each of my patients, and it feels like paradise.

Unless things change, I will never go back to primary care. The author mentions a PCP who was able to find a practice where she saw 12 patients a day. I've never heard of such a thing, but maybe if I could find that sort of situation, I'd consider it.

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Thanks Doc!
Posted by: Brb007 on Jun 19, 2009 4:55 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I applaud the two physicians above, for sharing their first hand experiences and their input regarding this issue. If our physicians are displeased and patients are suffering and displeased, doesn't common sense dictate that we need change sooner, rather than later?

Those who practice in the field should be the very people that help to frame our policies, based on actual need and not based on financial considerations and time restraints.

Will we ever return to a system where our Doctors are permitted to diagnose and treat illness, as they were trained to do, rather than insurance company lackeys using generalized policy protocol, with no medical training, to determine what is best for us and what we may or may not receive, based on the Insurance company's desire to cut costs?

In my state, we have lost so many good specialists, that it is hard to get an appointment in Neurology, Rheumatology, Endocrinology and many other specialties ... mainly because of the high cost of their insurance and the lack of autonomy to test, diagnose and treat. While the Physicians suffer loss of their communities and practices, the patients also lose continuity of care, security and safety and are forced to be shuffled off into a large, frequently out of town or state University system, where we are treated like cattle being ushered into the bullpen.

It is indeed time for our health care system to work with Physicians and patients, to appropriately represent and meet the needs of patients. We need to end the self serving policies that represent only the bottom line fiscal outcome for these companies, often at great expense to the patient who is neglected, simply because an insurance company lay person is trained to deny needed services and care to many who desperately need them ... all to improve their profit margins.

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News Item: Insurance co CEO's pay doubles in 5 years
Posted by: sausage on Jun 19, 2009 6:08 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.desmoinesregister.com/

Iowa's dominant health insurance company has nearly doubled the pay of its leader in the past five years, to $2.5 million in 2008.

Wellmark Blue Cross and Blue Shield board members say John Forsyth's compensation is justified by the company's growth and service improvements under his leadership as president and chief executive officer.

Forsyth's pay was in line with or lower than many of his peers' among Blue Cross plans around the country, according to documents provided by Wellmark. And company leaders note that some leaders of for-profit insurance firms, including national companies selling policies in Iowa, make much more.

Principal Life Insurance Co., based in Des Moines, has 3 percent of the Iowa health insurance market. Its top executive, Larry Zimpleman, was paid $4.8 million last year.

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Good Article
Posted by: Aimleft on Jun 19, 2009 6:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And describes some of the problems I face, even while "covered" under Govt Blue Cross/Blue Sheild. I pay about $140.00/month out-of-pocket for insurance that covers me well if I'm hospitalized, and that covers a good bit of my prescriptions. But outpatient services aren't covered well, and dental work coverage is all but nonexistant. Even with the coverage I have, it's taken me almost a year to pay off the costs to the hospital and radiology company for me to have a diagnostic CT scan last July. This is ongoing. Any time I have any kind of outpatient treatment, I can expect months of making payments for hundreds and hundreds of dollars worth of treatment not covered or not fully covered.

On the point of doctors and their time with their patients, I agree there's not enough time. "My" doctor barely knows me. I rarely go see him because I feel rushed when I do go. I'd rather not make the co-payment and pay the charges for prescription meds I know I need for high cholesterol, etc., nor for testing such as mammogram and other yearly requirements. I'm a good example of someone whose medical needs are not met, despite being supposedly insured.

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Don't hold your breath on human values ever being considered ...
Posted by: monkeywrench on Jun 19, 2009 6:46 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... there's no profit in it.

From the article:
"If we can find creative ways to put relationships on a par with cost and access at the heart of our campaign, we might energize people who today are on the sidelines of this struggle."
. . . . . .

Right now, the only way to do that move to Europe.

Here in America, we are the Calvinist-based, ramrod-straight society of "lift yourself by your own bootstraps" rugged individuality, as if we're still back in the 1800's Wild West with our "40 acres and a mule."

Add to that that our obsession with capitalism in its most virulent, greedy, form, where money isn't just the thing, but the ONLY thing, and it's easy to see that, at least to those in power, common humanity and relationships are the LAST things to be considered in any decision, if at all.

Thus, most of us willl be lucky if we get ANY form of healthcare "reform"; especially those who, for now before they are bankrupted by the expense, can still afford to be bilked by private insurers and so are left completely out of the picture. I fully expect that the final form of healthcare "reform" will be to get the 40-odd million unisured onto the rolls, with those who already have employer-provided insurance left alone while their employers' businesses continue to suffer the expense, and with those individuals struggling to afford their own, inadequate, private insurance left to twist slowly in the wind. And, of course, the nightmare scenario (and one that has been suggested by Obama) is to FORCE everyone to buy insurance – a bonanza, a license to steal, for private insurers (as if they're not stealing enough now ...)

We in the middle class who play by the rules, work like hell to be educated and make enough to provide adequately for our families – and upon whom the entire society depends – are always the last to be considered. It is only the squeaky wheels that get greased, and we don't squeak loudly enough.

If anyone wants an example of what it will take to reform our government and get any kind of humanity out of it, just take a look at what's going on in the streets of Tehran right now. The Iranian people have figured it out.

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» It IS happening here. Posted by: wolfgangmo75
I've been on both sides of this...
Posted by: Beadmaster on Jun 19, 2009 6:55 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...insured and uninsured (the latter where I was too poor to afford insurance). They're both issues. When I went for a recent follow-up to an emergency room visit, I was foisted off on a PA, because my doctor was "too busy" to see me. This PA did absolutely nothing for me...but I still paid for my appointment, and worse, it came out of my hefty deductible.

My doctor's office has gone from being a nice, small "family" practice to a huge conglomeration of physicians. The doctors don't even call the shots on who they can and can't see anymore...that's left to an outsourced staff. It's so impersonal, if I didn't like my doctor, I'd leave in a second.

Not to mention all referrals go to the most expensive physicians, who are affiliated with them.

Otherwise, one waits months for simple follow-up appointments. I have heard complaints about other health care systems, such as Canada's, but their wait times are far shorter, not to mention they, at least, can look forward to eventually getting care, which many here can't at all - ever.

What a mess.

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The Forgotten Underinsured
Posted by: FoonTheElder on Jun 19, 2009 6:55 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just because you have insurance, doesn't mean you can afford health care. For every two uninsured there is at least one underinsured. A person who has health insurance except that the deductibles and co-pays are so high compared to their income, that they can't afford to use their health care.

Employers have been moving to 'consumer-directed' high deductible plans. It is to the point where some employees can no longer afford the $1,000+ deductibles plus thousands more in co-pays.

Even many of the insured do not have real access to health care.

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When "care" is business.....
Posted by: Spiritgirl on Jun 19, 2009 7:03 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Because everything has turned to the "business model" it is no longer "Care"! For those out there lucky enough to have insurance that you are happy with, congratulations! With maybe 5-10 minutes of "face time" a physician not only doesn't get the chance to understand your complaints, but probably doesn't even know your name! When did "health-care" just become solely about making money?!? We've all been duped into believing that every single enterprise can fall into some "business model" as though we are all automotons!

Having insurance is not a panacea, at least half of all bankruptcies in this nation involved people who had "insurance"! Talk about rationing - while paying exhorbitant premiums and you happen to get sick - the last thing that needs to happen is to have to argue about payments!

For all of those "blathering heads" that continue to demonize single payer, the truth is that it will promote competition - that is sorely needed! Will a single payer plan cover everything under the sun, probably not. But what it will do is provide a much needed counter balance for the American people in the form of affordable, accessible, wellness care - the stuff the "Insurance industry" no longer provides unless you are a CEO of the company!!!

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Excellent article. We do need to be health care vigilantes.
Posted by: maxpayne on Jun 19, 2009 7:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, doctors will try to make patients feel like they're asking too much but as a healthcare vigilante, I feel that it's my job to pound those doctors with plenty of questions and see to it that they know what they're doing or else they'll be asking for trouble. There are great doctors out there but beware of the ignorant assholes and be prepared to take them down if you suspect even a slight foul play.

P.S.: I will admit that I have been even tougher with doctors when my wife underwent treatment a couple of times. One of the doctors was totally ignorant and evasive in saying that nothing could be done about it but I forced him to confess and then he admitted that a drug company was in effect financially controlling and pressuring him and afterwards he reformed his ways and even improved himself in actually examining and treating patients better in addition to my wife. Politicians are the toughest cases to crack but at least with doctors, some are reformable.

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Geriatricians and OB/GYN's
Posted by: Purple Girl on Jun 19, 2009 8:00 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's not just the GP's who are in dire need, but also those willing to serve the elderly and womens healthcare needs.
This is a direct result of Medical professional Greed and/or fear of liability.
Can't make much money off the elderly on fixed incomes even with medicare coverage, not to mention they are those who also present a greater risk of dying thus potentials for lawsuits. Same goes for the OB sector, malpractice insurance has caused an aversion to the speciality.
Let's not only Thank the Culture of Greed and prestige for this lack of available medical professionals- Let's have the medical establishment take a bow too. For centuries- essentially since healthcare became the domain of men- The medical Profession created the air of 'Godliness'.The numerous lawsuits and threats of lawsuits are the evil of their own making. It's time the medical profession finally admit they are fallible, make human errors, can not cure or save everyone and the Reality- Everyone Dies.
Perhaps this is the karmic retribution from the female midwives and healers of past generations, who they helped portray as Witches or in league with the Devil.
Now the only ones these Self absorbed, Self anointed 'Gods' want to provide services for are the Wealthy in search of eternal youth.
Frankly I have no pity for the Medical profession. As far as I'm concerned if they are blocking real healthcare reform, they should be subjected to the highest damages awards, and reprocussions, allowed under law. Who cares if you made an honest mistake, had no malice or intent to do harm. You Fucked Up, Your 'Holiness' and being stationed 'on high' you should suffer the long fall downwards. Heres the Deal AMA if you are willing to concede healthcare is a RIGHT of EVERY American (not just a priviledge to seek favors from the 'almighty' MD), then We American may concede that you doc's are only Human, thus not subject to 'Godlike' persecution/prosecution for failing to perform miracles. Thus reducing your exposure to lawsuits, potential for Revoked licensing, Loss of livilhood and decreasing your malpractice insurance premiums.

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Here's how we'll pay for single-payer universal health care
Posted by: batteredup on Jun 19, 2009 8:38 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A big argument is forming to determine where the money will come from to pay the costs of a national health care plan to insure the 50 million uninsured and 100 million or so underinsured.
Some are pointing to higher taxes on the wealthier people, with stiff opposition, from, of course, the wealthier people. Maybe it could be scaled down to allow for modestly higher taxes to HELP defray the costs.
I'll take either.

Some suggest legalizing pot would pay the freight. An obvious solution to lots of problems; eliminate wasted taxpayer money on the legal and criminal systems, reclaim lost pot money going out of the country with drug cartel mobs, jobs created by growing, manufacturing, processing, transporting, storage, selling and the residual tax revenue make it so simple even a Congressman/woman should be able to see the benefits like most of us do. What holds legalization back? Probably the pot industry has failed to hire enough lobbyists to bribe legislation out of our honorable lawmakers.
So we can't count on the smoke from that pipe-dream clearing.

How about a simpler solution like those of us who need and want better insurance or any insurance for that matter, but can't afford the huge premiums for minimal coverage offered by the insurance cartel organize and PETITION the leaders in government with offers to support a tax increase to us single-payers, like they do in Europe, Canada, Japan and the rest of the civilized world, which would be deducted from our paychecks based on how much we can afford?
One guy who earns only $20K a year may be able to throw $25/week into the health care kitty. Another person making $30K, maybe $50/week and so on. With 80 million of us after the unemployed are removed from the list contributing specifically to a designated health care fund it should be enough to fund a good part of the program.

As a public option we can choose to enroll and pay the premiums or not if you're a stubborn, pig-headed republikkkan you can keep your insurance-company-run insurance you so desperately want to preserve and you can pay their higher premium for lower bennies.

It kills me; these same "say no to national health care" morons would love to have the same type of insurance federal employees have -and the same type we'll get under a public option, but when it's offered as a public option or under the universal health care banner, it's suddenly "socialized medicine" or tagged with some other inappropriately-named slur because the idiots in the GOP don't have the brains to design it or the guts to stand up to their pharma/insurance lobbyist pals. And if they don't present it, according to the fauxnewsrush,inc.lemmings, it can't be any good.

Let's start a letter-writing campaign to that good Irish kid in the whitehouse, Mr. O'
Bama and each member of the lobbyists' marionette show in Congress who are supposed to be representing us and OFFER to help pay for the public option. Organizing public support to help pay for the system by those who will be using it will back their stubborn asses into a corner they can't get out of.

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Baby steps.
Posted by: reelectnoone on Jun 19, 2009 9:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Reform has failed for many years because a few use health care as a profit base. They turned doctor visits into an assembly line system to maximize their "investment" in doctors. This is one of the elements those who hold shares in Corporate Health Care don't want reform. For them the bottom line is the bottom line. After all they can afford any level of care they want...screw the rest of us.

Now comes a push to reform health care so every American can, hopefully, be covered in some way. More patients but not more doctors. For awhile the lines may get longer for some, but at least there will be a line to wait in.

Reform takes baby steps sometimes and no single act will solve decades worth of problems. It has become too complicated to clean up with a single swipe of the pen.

Some doctors are in it for the money. Others are true doctors, in it to heal. Those in it for the money can always be bought and you can have as much of their time as you can afford. If you have the cash...enjoy. That won't change.

Some would-be doctors don't exist because of the greed of the system. A new era of health care will need to go back to the system of offering incentives for new young doctors to practice in university hospitals and clinics to be "real" doctors. Some towns have paid for a medical education in exchange for a contract stating that the doctor will hang out his shingle in their town.

We need to entice bright young minds to become doctors for the right reasons. Not for wealth but for a secure living doing good for the health of their communities. A government option can help make this a reality. This will lead to more doctors to server patients and give each more time to practice and less to worry about their next investment.

The present system rewards greed. It rewards doctors for seeing the greatest number of patients in the least amount of time. It does this because the motto now is "time is money" rather than "care comes first".

If you are lucky enough to have coverage are you happy knowing you are a piece in a profit-cog to be passed along as fast as they can in order to squeeze in one more paying customer?

/

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I do not want for-profit corporations & bureaucrats deciding if my illness will be payed for...
Posted by: JohnTruth2001 on Jun 19, 2009 9:21 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
nor making any other decisions about the health of my family or me!

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FORCED LABOR
Posted by: sowles on Jun 19, 2009 9:50 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now that the Demo controlled Congress has included language in the proposed mandatory health insurance bill, what will happen to those poor folks that can't afford to pay the high cost of the policies? Forced labor camps in North Dakota? This socalled "free medical" will end up costing the average worker thousands of $$$ a year more than any government official will testify to. Once the big-Insurance companies get in on the feeding frenzy, I can assure you that your monthly rates will sky rocket. If you live in a state where mandatory auto insurance was enacted, well guess what. Auto insurance screamed up ward from about $35.00 per month to several hundred dollars a month. Mandatory home insurance went from several dollars a month to thousands per year. Free medical, guess what? The over paid medical establishment will get richer while us workers just get boney fingers.

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» RE: FORCED LABOR Posted by: Lilly
I'm insured but no longer have a primary-care physician
Posted by: ikonoklast on Jun 19, 2009 10:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
because my last GP treated me like a commodity instead of a person. I have no idea what kind of compensation MDs receive no behalf of pharmaceutical companies and other interests, but she spent more time on sales pitches for medication, supplements, herbal remedies, and expensive diet plans than actually treating me. My appointments were always rushed, with ~ 5 minutes of actual face time with the Dr. The one time I pressed her to answer some follow-up questions (about 5 more minutes) I was charged for an "extended visit."

I'm lucky--my only problem was borderline high blood pressure and lipid profiles edging toward pre-diabetes, both of which I was able to improve on my own by paying more attention to my diet and exercise. No drugs, supplements, or expensive meal plans. But I feel terrible for people with more serious problems who are being exploited by their doctors. Just recently a good friend's mom died because of adverse drug interactions, a death that could have been prevented had her physicians been more careful and actually communicated with each other. The system definitely needs to become more efficient and affordable, but also more oriented to the total care of the person rather than merely treating symptoms. Or maximizing profit for the unscrupulous.

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Free market health care is an oxymoron
Posted by: pelican beak on Jun 19, 2009 11:02 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The classical sense of free market is when the seller has no requirement to sell, and the buyer has no requirement to buy. That's the situation Adam Smith was writing about.

When you've got cancer, you have a requirement to buy (or death).

A free market in medicine is impossible.

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coverage may be worse tahn none!!
Posted by: maxsmart on Jun 19, 2009 11:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've been covered for a long time and have no personal doctor despite several plans. I get diagnosis from operators over the phone. I doubt very seriously my company plans were worth the cost at all.

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Otto
Posted by: otto on Jun 19, 2009 1:28 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I also just read of one insurance company that gave a bonus to each of their employees who managed to drop clients who were seriously sick...thousands were dropped from policies.

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Underinsured 21 Year Old Woman, Dies From Gallstones and Lack of $5000 Co-Pay
Posted by: Brb007 on Jun 19, 2009 3:38 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This story should be one that ALL lawmakers are forced to read and answer to. I am posting it as many places as I can, in hopes that it will reach those who have some ability to influence change to our helathcare system.

The following just occurred, here in America, this week.

This week, a 21 year old woman, filled with life and joy and who was just beginning her adult life, succumbed to complications due to GALLSTONES. Yes, I said gallstones. She was employed and insured but lacked the $5000 co-pay for necessary surgery and was refused the surgery by multiple hospitals.

Jessica fell violently ill, lost her job, then lost her much needed insurance and could not afford treatment. After suffering horrible pain for months and making numerous trips to the ER, to be sent home each time with only pain meds, Jessica was rushed off to Intensive Care one day, suffering from sepsis and kidney failure due to the untreated gallstones.

Jessica was placed on a ventilator and slipped into a coma. After Medicaid finally stepped in, now that she had lost her job due to illness, and after nearly $500,000 worth of ICU treatment and dialysis which Medicaid had to pick up, Jessica DIED at 21 years of age ... all due to gallstones and a lack of the $5000 co-pay for surgery.

Please see the news links and coverage of this horrible, unnecessary event! This is AMERICA! Can't we do better for our citizens, for our young adults who are just beginning their lives?

An interview with Jessica's Mother at a TV station in Houston:

Interview

And an Op-Ed that Debby wrote (she is a reporter at a local newspaper):

Op-Ed by Mother

And Jessica's obituary, from the same paper.

Obituary

PLEASE, we need reform NOW. Share this with every Congressperson who will listen and read it! If this happened to one of their children, would that perhaps change their opinions and votes regarding health care reform?

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» RE: A Tragic Story Posted by: kettleblack
Corporate medicine is like the corporate media
Posted by: Alenna on Jun 19, 2009 5:25 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and corporate agriculture. They try to make everything efficient and assembly-line. Their corporate "master" requires them to follow their rules. The AMA is very politically and economically powerful. Big Pharma needs to sell their drugs, and doctors are their pimps.

This is why so many people are turning to alternative medicine. They are sick of long waits, followed by a rushed 10-minute exam, followed by a prescription (or 3) at the end. I have health insurance, but I haven't been to a "conventional" doctor in years - I prefer to pay a chiropractor, or an acupuncturist and to go with nutritional organic foods and herbs as medicine. My mother died a horrible death from breast cancer. She went the "conventional" route - mastectomy, chemotherapy, radiation. I don't know if alternative therapies would have saved her, but she certainly wouldn't have suffered nearly as much.

Conventional medicine is good for emergencies - a car crash, broken bones, a heart attack etc., but you'd better be ready to empty your savings if you need it. Even if you have insurance.

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been off and on insurance for a decade
Posted by: DaBear on Jun 19, 2009 5:36 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now we have an HMO. I re-ruptured my L5-S1 in April (first rupture was in 2006, epidurals and 12 mos. of "rehab" later I'm living with 80% best I can do, no one wants to do surgery on a 40 something). Fought Aetna for an MRI, they said no. They still wanted me to do PT... at a facility 40 miles away (because they don't "contract" with one of the 1600 in my own city... too fucking bad, rich mofo's! I can barely drive around the block due to the pain and the pain meds let alone 40 miles away! Assholes!) Doc says, PT isn't indicated in my case because of the prior injury in the same disc, I need an MRI... finally got an MRI end of May. Spent 78+ hours fighting them for that. Didn't get to see the ortho until June 8. Fought for 50+ hours to get that. Now they're fighting me over an epidural and a cheaper outpatient surgical fix the doc says I need because my MRI shows I have damned disc left! But Aetna says, "the procedure is not medically necessary." I spent my own money to go get other opinions based on the MRI. All docs concur, that disc is fucked. I appealed Aetna denied it. Doc says sue 'em... yeah with what, my good looks?

Cousin in Canada had the same thing, from the time of his injury to surgery: five days. He's walking around just fine two months later.

We might be able to afford sufficient amounts of food if our 33% of our paycheck wasn't taken for the HMO premium. Since 67% goes to housing (rent) what's left?

The whole lot of these CEOs and corporate purchased politicians better watch their damned ass. People are gonna go 1789 on their ass if they keep this shit up.

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For a select few socialized medicine already exists. The
Posted by: abusedbypenguins on Jun 19, 2009 5:46 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
VA has come a long way in the past 20 years. I have an elderly friend who was medically discharged and for the past 30 years the VA has taken good care of him. If it weren't for the VA he would have been bankrupt a long time ago and would have died in a cardboard box under a viaduct. So those of you who will poo-poo this all I can ask is "Have you been to a VA hospital Lately?". If not, go and check it out. Various forms of socialized medicine already exist The problem is nationalizing the insurance companies and let the government run it. What is the difference between a corporate bureaucrat and a government bureaucrat. Absolutely nothing. The military is a gigantic government bureaucracy and everybody is fine with that. Why is that? The pentagon makes the Department of Motor Vehicles look like a well oiled machine. Where I live the DMV is a well run bureaucracy and my longest wait was 10 minutes.

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Great article. Wonderful comments.
Posted by: hagwind on Jun 19, 2009 7:03 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What's screwing this country up is that the bean counters who seem to be running the show believe that if it can't be quantified it isn't real. Democracy can't be quantified. Love can't be quantified. Justice can't be quantified. Health can't be quantified. Community can't be quantified. No wonder we're so short of all of them.

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I'M ON MEDICARE. I RECENTLY HAD A PNEUMATIC RETINOPEXY AT A
Posted by: Raymond Emerson on Jun 19, 2009 10:08 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
name brand opthalmic institute. It was a one hour surgery in an operating theatre. I was blind in my left eye. It called for the presence and sevices of an anesthesiologist. He billed 960 dollars for his services of one hour. I thought it a pretty good hourly wage. Had I been paying cash that is what I would have been asked to pony up. He settled for the 260 dollars that medicare offered. Now do you see why they hate public programs?

He can legally ask me for a 20% co-pay. That is 26 twice or 54 dollars. I send him a little something every month. I will pay him out eventually.

The surgical group was different matter. I have been going to this group practice for several years. Each year after my annual checkup I slowly pay out the co-pay. Pretty soon it zeros out.

I made all of the follow-up appointments that the surgeon suggested and was released by him. There was another follow-up appointment with the opthalmologist that had asked for the surgical intervention. I then receive a demand for cash all due and payable for all of my co-pays for the surgery and its follow-ups. This has not been the way things are done.

I called and explained that if this was the way they did things I couldn't afford them. The surgeon had boasted to me that they never turned anybody away. It was clear that they, and their bean counters, could be demanding. I cancelled the next appointment and haven't been back.

You say that the insured need to be included in the argument. You are right. I had been going to a general practioner for an annual checkup. He would try to schedule me for the last appointment of the day. He spent extra time. We even wandered off of the subject.

I was sitting and waiting several years ago. I was the only person in the waiting room. I over heard this conversation between the office personnel about me. The question was what do we have left. The answer was only one and all he has is medicare. The venom in the voice was offputting. The woman was nasty and expressed it in her voice. I was insulted.

At the time I ignored it. I thought, I will tend to business and think about it later. I went ahead and made the appointment for a year later. About 6 months later I hadn't forgotten the venom and hatred in that woman's voice. Just before time for the annual physical I called and cancelled. Perhaps I should have told the doctor. I haven't had an annual physical for years now. I am 70.

There are doctors who refuse medicare patients. That is their right, except for those received their educations at public expense. I should think that they should have to pay off the public's expenditure before refusing a medicare patient. I am personally assurred that 70% of my education was paid for by the taxpayer. My gratitude has not lessened with time.

The medical care system is awful. I can think of little that I really like. The physicians seem to really try but everything around them works against them. Then there is the matter of greed.

My first wife died in 2000 after a 5 year illness. I worked 6 months in that 5 year period. The costs involved in her illness amounted to 500,000 dollars. It destroyed my chances for a comfortable retirement. Her illness left me with little respect for the medical establishment. I am personally assured that there were treatments that would have extended her life by a year or more. John Wayne hospital was equipped to provide these treatments. There was only one little trick to this. It was cash only. She died.

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cheapestcar
Posted by: cheapestcar on Jun 21, 2009 11:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Her story isn't finished. Odds are that her back pain will return within 2-3 years. That's how back surgery works. Roughly 70% will get some relief but within 3 years, surgical and nonsurgical cases have equivalent outcomes. Don't argue until you've reviewed the literature. It's a fact.
I for one will be rooting for her to be one of the lucky ones. I see a few patients here and there who have had long-term success.
Unfortunately back pain is still relatively poorly understood. Just because you have lesions on MRI doesn't necessarily coorelate with pain. In fact, 30% of assymptomatic adults have disc abnormalities on MRI.
If your friend's daughter had no insurance, she would not have received surgery. People with insurance (medicare or private,in some areas this also applies to medicaid) receive too much treatment which causes poorer outcomes. Medicine has as much capacity to harm as to help. Only few doctors will discuss this fact with their patients.
The current system of insurance fosters overuse of medicine. People pay for insurance and then they want "to get their monies worth". Assuming that more care is better care they see their dr. Have some chest pain, get a cath, 1/200 risk of stroke. Have a stroke, get an MRI, carotid ultrasound and echocardiogram. Who knows, may find something? May make the patient a medical invalid or anxiety ridden worrier. Read the story if you give a mouse a cookie and you'll know how it often works.
In the beginnings of cardiac catheterizations, about 90% of people who underwent caths had identifiable flow limiting lesions. Now it's about 50%. Some of this is fear of malpractice for not finding the lesion. Some of it is because caths are less risky and docs are more familiar with them. A lot of it is money bias. You get a lot of money for doing a cath, why not? Also, if you live in an area with more cardiologists and more cath labs per population then more people get caths. That suggests that availability and ease affects the decision to cath or not.
I am an ER doc who spends time with my patients trying to help them understand their options and risks involved in testing and procedures. Unfortunately it seems only those predisposed to cynicism toward the medical professions will listen much. Everyone else wants to get more care, a better deal for their money already spent on insurance (or even better, paid for by the friendly taxpayer).

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» RE: cheapestcar Posted by: jrmart
KEEP YOUR HANDS OFF MY INSURANCE!!
Posted by: jrmart on Jun 23, 2009 7:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I happen to be covered by GIC. 85% paid by my ex employer, the Commonwealth of Mass. It is now and has been for the last 20 years a wonderful plan that allows me to choose who and when i see. It covers allmost all my rx costs. along with my medicare. WHAT HAPPENS TO MY COVERAGE UNDER THIS MOST RECENT PROPOSAL?
i have no idea and neither does anyone I have spoken with. ie: my congressional representative. I worked for many years in an underpaid position for just this reason. Health care in my retirement years for my wife and me. So, DON'T TOUCH MY INSURANCE. I fear that I will be forced to change.

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