MotherJones.com / By James Ridgeway
comments_imageCOMMENTS: 250

A Brief History of the Radical, Violent Right: How Racist Hate Groups Joined Up with Abortion Terrorists

Alleged murderer Scott Roeder was once a white separatist before he became an anti-choice zealot -- many others have followed the same deadly path.
June 6, 2009  |  
 
 
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The revelation that Scott Roeder, the alleged murderer of Dr. George Tiller, belonged to an anti-government, white separatist group called the Montana Freemen might seem like an unlikely twist. After all, such groups are generally thought of as either indifferent to the issue of abortion or actively enthusiastic about its potential for reducing the nonwhite population. As it turns out, however, the journey from radical racialist to anti-abortionist isn't as unusual as you might think.

Roeder's connections to the right-wing fringe began well over a decade ago, according to the Kansas City Star. His ex-wife, Lindsey, said that after a few years of marriage, Roeder became increasingly involved with the Freemen and its anti-government ideology. "The anti-tax stuff came first, and then it grew and grew. He became very anti-abortion…That's all he cared about is anti-abortion. 'The church is this. God is this.' Yadda yadda." Noting that she vehemently disagreed with her ex-husband's views, Lindsey Roeder told the Star that he moved out in 1994. "I thought he was over the edge with that stuff," she said. "He started falling apart. I had to protect myself and my son."

In 1996, Roeder was arrested in Topeka after sheriff deputies stopped his car because it had no license plate. Instead, the Star reported, "it bore a tag declaring him a 'sovereign' and immune from state law. In the trunk, deputies found materials that could be assembled into a bomb." Roeder was convicted, sentenced to two years probation, and told to stay away from far-right groups. A state appeals court subsequently overturned the conviction.

Roeder and the Freemen belonged to a little-recognized nativist political movement that began in the early 20th century, flared up periodically, and then ripped through the American heartland during the farm depression of the mid-1980s. This movement was often called "the posse," after a core group named the Posse Comitatus. Like any political movement, it consisted of a myriad of shifting entities that appeared and disappeared. But even though the names of the groups often changed, they all held tightly to the notion that the true white sovereigns, who had rightfully been given this land by God, were being threatened by race traitors "inferior races" creeping across the borders from Mexico and lands farther south. A favorite posse image was a drawing of a man hanging by the neck from a tree on a hill. Below in the distance stands a group of armed men. A sign is scrawled on the drawing. It says "The posse."

Over the years, this movement has encompassed various remnants of the Ku Klux Klan, what was left of Lincoln Rockwell's Nazis, the national socialists of William Pierce, and skinheads. Sometimes, adherents of the Posse ideology operated underground. Sometimes, they attempted to win support via electoral politics, like the white supremacist David Duke, who ran numerous times for statewide and national office. Terry Nichols, who along with Timothy McVeigh carried out the Oklahoma City bombing in 1995, dabbled with the concept of sovereign citizenship. The militia movement, too, was an outgrowth of the posse movement. Daniel Levitas, author of a book about the phenomenon, has described Roeder's group, the Montana Freemen, as "the direct ideological descendants of the Posse Comitatus."

The Freemen aimed to rid the nation of "14th Amendment citizens" -- anyone who wasn't a white Anglo Saxon directly descended from God. Nonwhites, or "mud people," weren't really people at all, but God's failed attempts to create Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. A bad Xerox copy, they used to say. These beliefs derived from a school of thought known as Christian Identity, which holds that Jews, blacks, and other minorities aren't actually people and therefore don't deserve constitutional rights. Instead, those rights are reserved for so-called "white Sovereigns," who aim to take over government and run it through grand juries of the people, with laws enforced by old-time posses.


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See more stories tagged with: abortion, pro-life, pro-choice, white supremacy, racists, hate groups, george tiller, racialists, scott roeder

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Why is anyone surprised?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: KQuark on Jun 6, 2009 1:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Extremists are all cut from the same cloth of intolerance. They all believe in superiority whether it's superiority over women's bodies or different races it does not matter.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Why is anyone surprised? Posted by: peacefullaim1
» RE: Why is anyone surprised? Posted by: harryf200
» RE: Why is anyone surprised? Posted by: Lara1967
» RE: Why is anyone surprised? Posted by: harryf200
» RE: Why is anyone surprised? Posted by: Seranvali
» RE: Why is anyone surprised? Posted by: Walks-in-Storms
» RE: Why is anyone surprised? Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Why is anyone surprised? Posted by: harryf200
» RE: Why is anyone surprised? Posted by: Seranvali
» Bottom line Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Bottom line Posted by: jananole2080
» RE: Bottom line Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Bottom line Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Bottom line Posted by: Seranvali
» RE: Bottom line Posted by: pauldd
» RE: Bottom line Posted by: blitzmesser
» RE: Bottom line Posted by: Seranvali
» RE: Why is anyone surprised? Posted by: Seranvali

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It's Not Just One Or Two Looneytunes
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Lilly on Jun 6, 2009 1:30 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My reaction as I read this article was, over and over, that none of this craziness is either gone or rare. Townhall.com (not a White Separatist site but one I would call mainstream Conservative---it was developed by The Heritage Foundation) is full every single day of posted comments reflecting sentiments as extreme as those described in the article about Roeder. A few at random taken from today, yesterday, or any day: 1) The argument that high-density communities should be encouraged because they use energy more efficiently is a cover-up for Obama's true intent, which is to herd people together so he can control them (confiscating all weapons will be the first step). 2) The government has no authority to impose laws. Speed limits, helmet laws, noise regulation, school attendance, age of consent etc etc, all are unsupported by the Constitution. 3) Taxation is theft. 4) Our Judiciary should be replaced by military tribunals. 5) Anyone who kills an abortion provider is a hero. 6) The franchise should be limited to land-owning married males >age 35 with a military background. 7) Life membership in the NRA should be required of every holder of public office. 8) Obama is in cahoots with Muslim extremists, to whom he intends to deliver us.

I have been trying for five minutes to end this post with a summarizing sentence and find that I can't. At first I think, it's impossible to judge nationwide sentiment from the self-selected sample provided in voluntary posts to a dedicated website, but then I think...Hannity, Limbaugh, Limbaugh frere, O'Reilly, Savage, Beck, and dozens more are feeding what seems to be a national appetite of significant dimensions. Rush Limbaugh's new contract guarantees him $400 million over the next eight years and, according to Media Matters, his employer Clear Channel Radio had to fire nearly 3000 radio professionals in order to come up with the money: they must be finding him a good investment.

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» RE: Your summarizing statement Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Very true Posted by: james108
» RE: Very true Posted by: fred_53_99
» A little science Posted by: wolfgangmo75

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White Wing
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Tom Degan on Jun 6, 2009 2:42 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To paraphrase Professor Henry Higgins from Lerner and Loewe's My Fair Lady:

This racial class distinction by now should be antique;
If you thought as they do, sir, instead of the way you do.
Why you might be quite the bigot, too....

You would think that this type of thinking went the way of the Whig and Know Nothing parties, wouldn't you? Yeah, I would, too. We both would be wrong, though. These assholes are far everywhere - and we're not talking merely the "usual suspects', either - or in the regions of the country we might define as "atypical" for this type of thinking.

I know a person - devout Catholic, seemingly decent, the Mary Poppins sort: "Practically Perfect in Every Way". The morning after President Obama's election, this woman was beside herself; even more so than after Clinton's elections in 1992 and 1996. It soon became apparent to me that she (and her son, who was also present) just could not stomach the thought of a BLACK MAN livin in that ol' WHITE HOUSE.

"Oh, Mammy! Pass me mah smellin' salts!

White supremists are not as "underground" as you might believe. They're everywhere.

Post #228: Random Thoughts

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY

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» RE: White Wing Posted by: andrushka
» This isn't reverse racism Posted by: crashgrab
» RE: no such thing... Posted by: WyrdSister
» RE: no such thing... Posted by: Seranvali

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A creepy minority of aging white males
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Perry Logan on Jun 6, 2009 2:43 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Hannity, Limbaugh...Beck, and dozens more are feeding what seems to be a national appetite of significant dimensions."

Don't worry. While there is such an appetite, it is not as significant as it pretends to be.

Our media is heavily biased to the right, hiding the fact that the right in America have been, are, and always will be a creepy minority of aging white males. :)

The airwaves are not filled with right-wing sewage because people are clamoring for it--but because the bad guys own the radio stations:

"The Structural Imbalance of Political Talk Radio"

Polls show that less than half the audience for hate radio identifies itself as conservative. America is not full of crazy people hungry to hear this crap. Like everything else about the political right, hate radio is a complete fraud.


Swine!

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» RE: look at me!!..PLEASE LOOK AT ME!! Posted by: BigElectricCat
» good point Posted by: james108

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the need for anti-hate laws...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Bearzerker on Jun 6, 2009 3:15 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... is self evident from Dr. Tillers hate inspired murder!

why do the federals pretend we're a free people and say they're protecting constitutional rights when they've been usurping all powers since 1968 under the guise of national security...
How bloated does the Federal bureaucracy need to get before we figure out the simple fact that they're only serving themselves?
Just follow the money... corporate money too and you'll see just how much has been lost in the past 50 years!

The Democrats won`t protect our values...
the lobby interests are to well funded to allow them any freedom of action.
The Republicans started this so they won't or can't either...
besides the fact that they were installed by their corporate crony friends.

The US is reaping what it sowed and the freedom meter cant fall any further!
Its funny that some rights can be devalued due to national security but anti-hate laws will never see the light of day because... what again?

land of the free indeed!
Long live the CORPORATE STATES OF AMERICA... not!

-- Mel Gibson in "The Patriot"
I would rather have 1 tyrant 3000 miles away then 3000 tyrants 1 mile away

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» damned right! Posted by: BlueBerry PickN

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Not only Illegal,but Heresy and cowardice
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Purple Girl on Jun 6, 2009 4:48 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Beyond the Civil Rights which our Founders Aspired to (No they HAD to add the 3/5's to get All 13 states to Sign- it was not originally in there,boys and girls)- Their ideology is Blatantly Blasphemous and Heretical. 'the mud people are Gods failed attempts at Adam and Eve'????? God Almighty, Creator of heaven and Earth Fails?Excuse Me? Tell me where such an Admission from God is Written. Oh can't find one,so this is merely THEIR Judgement.Gee what jelaous and hateful entity would claim such a right to judge Gods Creations.What part of 'Judge not lest thy be Judged' Eludes their mental abilities? Not only are they passing judgement on the Creations, But also the Creator.
Heres a lil' thouuhgt for them to chew on too in regards to the Women. Why did the Almighty decide to grant Women the innate blessing of actually bringing forth life (much like Himslef) and the ability to nurture it, and not men? Why did God CHOOSE to use a Female to give Birth to Christ, when He could obviously very easily have created him as a full Grown man and descended him from the Heavens?God has yet to use His Almighty powers to Revoke that priviledge to Women- perhaps He approves of the decisions we make. Lest we forget God periodically performs abortions too- miscarriages and still births.
Not only do these Groups prove they have no reverence for the One and only One Almighty or the USA, they exude the fact that they are nothing more than fearful cowards. They are terrified if they don't oppress the other groups, they will be shown to lack the abilities to compete on a level playing field. Why do they think so little of their own White maleness? Why must they try to stack the deck, slant the field, Lower the Bar for themselves? Do they think they need a unfair edge, need a lil help making the grade? Seems minorities have taken on the challenge, shown no such fears or cowardice when competing against white males. So Whatsa matta You? Low Self Esteem?Self Loathing? Got a wicked Yellow Stripe down your back( to match those shoe laces)?
So not only do these groups prove they have absolutely NO concept of What America Stands For, they have no Reverence for the Almighty, nor any confidence in themselves.I'm not calling you Cowardly UnAmerican Satan worshippers- You've made that judgement on yourselves,through your words and actions.
"Thou Protest Too Much"

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» RE: White maleness Posted by: songbird1268

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White Americans - directly descended from God???
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Ghoulman on Jun 6, 2009 4:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... descended from God!?!?! wtf?!?!

I thought I knew a lot about the white supremacists, especially after the skinhead indoctrinations in the 90s, and much about the bigoted nature of America culture... but, descended from God!?!?! Wow! That I never knew.

Incredible! This article taught me something new and deeply frightening.

I can't even begin to comment. The fact it's wildly blasphemous, arrogant in the extreme, and more than a little Scientology like I don't know if I should laugh, cry, or start digging a hole. Not to mention adding an entire dimension to right wing code words like 'manifest destiny'. Suddenly Pay Robertson's giggling is scary, not silly.

I don't really have anything to say here, I'm totally floored. I'll only suggest; beware of Xenu. ;p

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Fine Examples of White Male Superiority
[Report this comment]
Posted by: peterjkraus on Jun 6, 2009 5:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I get a kick out of seeing pics of these Superior Beings: slovenly appearance is the norm, a propensity for overeating evident, their "writings" replete with even the most simple mistakes, their "thinking", if measured by the results of that for them evidently uncommon exercise, extremely strange, to say the least. These people demonstrate the superiority of the white race? Of any race or gender? God help us all.

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There's also a link between the pro gun crowd.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Karlh on Jun 6, 2009 5:37 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
White male homophobes who love God and their guns.

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Who is surprised?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: GPFrank on Jun 6, 2009 5:48 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a repeat of my last night's post
after "Campus Progress" on the new radical right
against abortion:

This radicalism as part of a movement to re-institute slavery, pure
and simple. That is, slavery over women.
They really would like the kind of regime as happened with the
Latter Day Saints colony in Texas. But there is also included a
minority among who believe in the institution of "kept" women.
"Innocent fertilized eggs" be dammed. They have given away their true
motive in the new attacks on birth control and condoms. At least some
women will be subdued in the face of the terror and propaganda
including falsification of medical data. I believe slavery over Blacks
would make them happy, too. While that is politically impossible
these folks believe that slavery is part of the natural human
condition. They believe the proper use of free speech is to bring
about slavery over those "less than human".

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Yeah - Mouth Breathing Haters Just Wuv Widdle Babies ...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: iolanthe on Jun 6, 2009 5:59 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Doesn't surprise me. Absolutely *NONE* of this crap is about the great love for, and respect for, and care for, helpless innocent unborn babies.

It is about authoritarianism and hatred of women.

In that light, the great paradox of folks who claim to weep for the poor unborn, but seem not to care a whit for already born folks, isn't such a paradox after all.

Glad this is coming to light. Now, maybe some of the truly compassionate people, some of the devout Catholics who are essentially kind folks, but who never examine or question church doctrine, may see how they are being "played" by evil people whose agenda has nothing whatever to do with respect for God or life.

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» Truth resolving paradoxes Posted by: maddy

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Don't know why anyone would be surprised by this
[Report this comment]
Posted by: sausage on Jun 6, 2009 6:01 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One of the long held tenets of white supremacists is that the "white" race is under assault and doomed to extinction if something isn't done.

After all blonds will be extinct as a species within 50 to 200 years, so you blond white people better start f*cking like monkeys and dropping babies like rabbits toute de suite!

And of course there is the double entendre inherent in the term "snowflake babies" coined by "Christian" embryo adoption organizations. Interestingly if you Google, or do an image search on Yahoo or Bing for "snowflake babies," you get pictures of Caucasian babies.

You see man was made in "god's" image. So it's not the fault of white, "Christian" Americans if "god" happens to look like a middle-aged Northern European man.

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This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
» Point taken, Mike! Posted by: harryf200

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b kenneth mcgee, author Eyes Shut Tight
[Report this comment]
Posted by: rfgtile on Jun 6, 2009 6:36 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In twenty years (1965-1985) spent as a politcal campaign consultant I worked for both liberals and conservatives.

In the past several years it seems that the conservative movement has changed dramatically. The heart of their movement has been turned over to the radical, less educataead, and violent sub culture that calls itself conservative. It is scary.

I remember that in my experience the conservatives were much easier to work with...they would take orders, march in straight lines..and would literally almost jucmp out of a plane without a parachute if ordered. They were smug and somewhat dull.

On the other hand...the liberals would argue with you all day about what number lead pencil to use...never wanted to take orders...and could drive you crazy. They were also....more fun.

I suspect thngs haven't changed much regarding the liberals. They are till not organized...can still drive you crazy...and are still a lot more fun...hmmmm...maybe a little smug now though.

The conservatives, on the other hand, have become radicalized...have turned to the less educated and hate filled of their numbers...still easier to organize and direct... and smug has turned to rightous. I suspect that parachutes are still not required!

God help us!

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Diff Between "Righteous" and "Self-Righteous"
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Posted by: iolanthe on Jun 6, 2009 7:04 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There's a big difference between "righteous" and "self-righteous". Being righteous is a good thing. It means being fair and consistent.

The language loses something important when righteous and self-righteous (i.e. phony righteous) are turned into synonyms.

Self-righteous people, constantly patting themselves on the back for their wonderfulness, are the opposite of righteous people.

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Fear of change
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Posted by: LeonBNJ on Jun 6, 2009 7:15 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To me, many of the right-wing extremeists and their mouthpieces like Rush, are acting out of fear of change in America. They seem to look at nostalga at and want to return to the America of just after WWII and until the mid-1950's. Before civil rights, greater regulation of our lives and use of property; before legal abortion; a time where White European ancestry men had absolute rule of thier homes, over their wives, absolute access to the best paying employment opportunites and power of government. Everyone was a patriot, didn't critize government, hated anything not American and especially 'Commies'.
That fear of change is also part of religious cult organiations, often with racial segeration, control of women and against abortion, adhering to such beliefs as a guaranteed ticket to heaven.
We all must be diligent to watch for the extremeists before they do terrorist acts but not supress their freedom of speech. We must demostrate in our lives the goal of best for the common good and to hate is futile.

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» Not really Posted by: james108

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Excellent Article
[Report this comment]
Posted by: dumdumboy on Jun 6, 2009 7:43 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
An eye-opener that makes one shudder.

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Anti-choice and Nazis: Long history of concordance
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Posted by: Baukunin on Jun 6, 2009 7:55 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hitler was an anti-abortionist.

The folks at Operation Rescue West are aggressively pro-war. Troy Newman used their "Truth Truck" to repeatedly block the path of a February 2003 anti-war march from Bethel College to the town square in Newton, Kansas.

They have utter contempt for Muslims.

They only believe in bringing Jews back to Israel to fulfill a biblical "prophesy," were they will eventually be doomed to boiling in a lake of fire.

The phone number for Cheryl Sullinger, a convicted clinic bombing plotter, was on the seat next to Roeder when he was apprehended, fleeing 200 miles from the crime scene where he assassinated Dr. Tiller.

They too don't believe in paying taxes, including income and employee and property taxes. The IRS lifted the Operation Rescue West tax-exempt status in August of 2006. They
bought many properties with the proceeds of their "anti-abortion" campaign.

They have physically and verbally harassed women seeking medical services, and the escorts of those women in Wichita. They have stalked clinic employees in their homes and their daily lives.

I am frankly unable to draw a great distinction between the anti-choice activists and the neo-Nazis.

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We're still paying for the U.S. Civil War
[Report this comment]
Posted by: xvictor on Jun 6, 2009 8:08 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Those kinda folks are merely Abe Lincoln's bastards creations. Ironically, he'd fit in well with them.

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America the blessed with Freedom of Speech
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Posted by: canadagirl on Jun 6, 2009 8:48 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oppression is a phenomena that is as radical as White Supremecy. Oppression is 'slavery' defined whether racist or gender id, religion. Oppression is a 'White Man's tool' to control, finance, employment, status, faith, human right's, constitutional right's, every part of everyone's life.

I am a White female, christian, liberal, metis, have a family made up of every race, faith, sexual id.. 'Whiteness' is / has been on the top as far as wars, military, conquests, partitians of countries, economic highs and economic lows.

Whiteness is what they think is 'exceptionalism, but actually is a culture of cognitive 'Rightness', 'Perfection' they feel. This has been the case throughout history, regardless of being of one race when God created Adam and Eve.

Their arrogance (some/not all) is an 'adolph hitler mentality' of "purism'. You look at Christianity over the years, being the second religion created in ancient times, and really only after God rejected the Jews a second time, opening up his followers to gentiles also, but warning the Jewish population to abide by his laws and they too have his blessing along with gentiles.

This Superiority of White Race is utter nonsense. This / my ... race has little as much about God, but has everything to do with 'purity of heart', and a set of guidlines outlined in the Bible, how to live life.

Once again, The Republican Pary have dishonered God/Yaweh, Jesus, and told the World, they are the exceptionalist in society. This all started with......'a black president', too much for them to handle, and ........Republican Party has been dumbed down in the past twenty years to what is 'the racisal right', calling themselves the chrisitan right, but their apparent 'exceptionalism' is realized when they put God/Jesus in a closet, and tell the country and the World, they are in charge, no abortions, no healthcare, no black president, no being nice to foreign countries.

Diplomacy is not their goal, Dictatorship is. America is going backward if we listen to the 'creepy', insulting, deranged, white guy with his gun at his side while holding his beloved Bible. He has urinated on the 'Force' of this World, created himself as 'not in the image of God', but, God. They are all God's now, here on earth. They make the moral decisions, they control peoples paychecks and party affiliates. They are a dangerous, unhealthy product of evil.

Liz Cheney talked about American 'Exceptionalism, two days in a row. Does anyone know what the rest of the World thinks of American 'EXceptionalism'? Do they care to know? Just another blustery statement to define this terrorist group in America.

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Yes, of course . . .
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Posted by: Walks-in-Storms on Jun 6, 2009 8:52 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The most typical tactic of today's mangled political discourse is that of odious comparison, or the "FoxNews Question" ("Is it possible that . . .?").

Tell me, what is more odious than killing a baby?

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» RE: Yes, of course . . . Posted by: rinthy
» RE: Yes, of course . . . Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Yes, of course . . . Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Yes, of course . . . Posted by: Lilly

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physician
[Report this comment]
Posted by: azarbali@cox.net on Jun 6, 2009 9:15 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anti-choice movement not only are Racists, but also are Pro-war, they claim that they are pro-life, but they do not mind to kill a million peaple in Iraq, or Afghanistan, they belong to Bush/Cheney war and torture team!!

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» Bit of a generalisation ... Posted by: harryf200

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Roeder is a cold-blooded killer...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Quannah on Jun 6, 2009 9:34 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and he is a member of the White Separatist movement.

He is involved in the Militia movement in Montana.

He is a member of the militant Freemen.

He is deeply involved with militant, violent anti-abortion groups.

He is a believer in crazy right-wing apocalyptic Christianity.

He is involved with militant Anti-Tax groups.

And why is he NOT considered a TERRORIST???

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Far, far too many generalizations in this propaganda piece!!!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: JohnTruth2001 on Jun 6, 2009 9:44 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are many, many reasonable people who are uncomfortable with abortion or certain aspects of it!

Abortion is also a preferred method of eugenicists, who do not present themselves as violent white supremacists, but as lefty "intelligentsia", much like the author of the article and the sheeple who made the above comments!

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» That idea came because... Posted by: harryf200
» RE: That idea came because... Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: That idea came because... Posted by: harryf200
» RE: That idea came because... Posted by: pelican beak

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All right, already
[Report this comment]
Posted by: willymack on Jun 6, 2009 9:45 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So, we're all aware the roeder creature is a homicidal moron. We also know he was probably egged on by those who'd rather remain "anonymous". Finally, we know that law enforcement in this case was, to put it mildly, lacking.
This deadly combination got a doctor murdered.
The question here is how do you prevent a recurrence of this crime?
Let's get back to the murderer. What would he have been like if he were properly EDUCATED, for instance? What would be the difference in his thinking if he'd been exposed to a wider variety of ideas and factual information in his formative years? What if he'd grown up in a truly nurturing enviornment?
In a bad economic situation such as this one, education and social programs are among the first to suffer cutbacks or elimination, while the war machine rolls merrily along.
If this isn't a receipe for suicide, I don't know what is.How much longer do our "leaders" expect us to accept the disappearance of ten billion dollars a month into two "war" fronts which should never have been there in the first place? How much more should we be forced to take on "faith"?
Just think of what could be accomplished by putting that ten billion dollars a month into truly needful things like education and a national health care system. It might even reduce the kind of tragedy that happened in Kansas.

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Put up or shut up
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Posted by: Jeanne on Jun 6, 2009 12:40 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When the anti-abortion, anti-choice movement offers real options, then they deserve consideration. When they open orphanages and clinics to care for expectant women and offer a safe place to carry the baby to term without fear of reprisal from family or others; and when they offer a place for irreversibly damaged babies to be cared for until they die of the congenital malformation that causes women to seek abortions; and when they assure us that any child that is born, but not wanted by the birth mother, will be cared for to adulthood, and offered the same opportunities to health care, and education, and a nurturing environment that we, as Americans expect (even though we often don't deliver), then the anti-choice movement has the right to demand an end to abortion. While their concern for the fetus begins at conception and ends at delivery, they have no right to pry into the lives and decisions of their fellow citizens.

And, the anti-choice terrorists and their enablers need to recognize that preventing unwanted pregnancies prevents abortions. Therefore, they need to support sex education, contraceptive availability and recognize that abstinence is not realistic (to quote Bristol Palin).

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» Excellent post, Jeanne Posted by: pelican beak

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Nutcases
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Posted by: frank69 on Jun 6, 2009 12:40 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So-called militias, tax dodgers, and anti-abortionists. All cut from the same crazy "cloth." Pick up your crayons at the door, nutcases.

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Regarding chattel
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Posted by: pelican beak on Jun 6, 2009 1:18 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Re: "What was the bridge between the posse movement and anti-abortionist fanaticism? The Sovereign crowd viewed women as chattel, and the prospect of an independent woman deciding to seek an abortion didn't sit well with them."

When all is said and done about us, if the abuse humanity has inflicted on itself, on its fellow Earthlife, and on Earth's dynamic life-supporting capacities is studied and accounted for by some outside intelligent being, I suspect the very notion of "ownership" - of land, of nation, of plants and animals, of other people, of ANYTHING - will prove to have been a primary social cause.

This would include "collective ownership" every bit as much as "private ownership" - both capitalist AND communist senses of ownership are part of the root problem.

When the Euro-Mesopotamian culture set out to colonize the rest of the world around 1500, this concept drove their madness. Religion was but its useful handmaiden.

Perhaps 10,000 years ago, when humanity systematically began to fabricate the legal, economic, social, and political concept of land ownership and territorial propriety, as opposed to the informal non-owning concept of "inhabited space," we started our way down a very dark road that has grown very dangerous. We apparently can't fathom our way out of it, because we are hostages to the services of our deeply-ingrained culture of greed and gluttony.

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FYI, when it comes to race and abortion, Obama ain't no LBJ.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: John More on Jun 6, 2009 3:17 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If 1965 were to have Obama and the Democrats in Congress we see today, civil rights legislation would have never passed. LBJ may have been a fucking traitor on Vietnam War just like Dubya was on Iraq but at least LBJ had the fucking balls to pass that legislation. Obama on the other hand will most likely "pardon" Scott Roeder just like he allowed Rick FUCKING Warren to speak at the inauguration. Obama has no respect for women's reproductive rights and he ain't gotta fucking vote of his to prove it. The same goes for most Democrats in Congress but I'm gonna laugh and drink another two bottles of beer because most of you poor femis voted Democrat and sold yourselves out so you're gonna get a taste of your own stupidity. The radical violent right is here to stay and they know Obama, Pelosi, Reid, and the rest of the fucking losers in the Democratic Party will join the GOP and cave right into them. My comrade brother in eastern CA and myself in eastern TX are proud gun toting liberals who know better than all those fucking sellouts in the Democratic Party ya'll keep worshipping !

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» You got that right, comrade ! Posted by: John More

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Bondage Loving Sadists.
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Posted by: melpol on Jun 6, 2009 4:53 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Gangs of bondage loving sadists are torturing pregnant women. Concerned Americans have more things to be concerned about than the status of a strangers fetus. But bondage loving sadists want women trapped for nine months with an unwanted pregnancy. They were in ecstasy to hear of Doctor Tillers death. If there is a Devil they will rot in hell for enjoying the obscene thrill of his murder.

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I Always Put The Children FIRST
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Posted by: tony_opmoc on Jun 6, 2009 5:03 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I Always Put The Children First

Because We Brought Them Into The World

It is Not The Children's Fault We Have Completely Fucked It Up

But I Always Put The Women First

Any Other Cunt Can Go and Fuck Off

Tony

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Right-wing filth.
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Posted by: archives@uwyo.edu on Jun 6, 2009 5:18 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Basically, right wingers are liars bullies, and crooks. Anti-choice is pulling a fetus-child scam. They love to bully others, especially with pretended virtue, and they think they have a license to murder others.

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Camn anyone tell me, where do the BLACK anti abortion folk ....
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Posted by: harryf200 on Jun 6, 2009 5:48 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... fit in with this "White Supremacist = Pro-life" model?

Don't shoot me - I'm just asking!

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Ignorance
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Posted by: AdamDunny on Jun 6, 2009 7:57 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wow, Ignorance truly is bliss! Living proof!

RT
Is your ISP watching?

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» Don't Click, Identity Theft! Posted by: theblackgeorgecarlin

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Why does this seem like a cleverly-crafted propaganda piece, desperate to paint anyone
[Report this comment]
Posted by: JohnTruth2001 on Jun 7, 2009 4:49 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
who legitimately question abortion, our government, taxes, 9/11, etc., as being the same as murderous Scott Roeder???

Furthermore, many of the other "villains" in the article (Ku Klux Klan, Nazis, skinheads, etc.) were provocateured by the NWO/globalists of their day, rather than merely random nut-jobs coming together.

Wake-up, sheeple!

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» RE: What Would Hamlet Do?? Posted by: BigElectricCat

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Oh, I see: Right wing bad, bad but left wing good, good.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: JohnTruth2001 on Jun 7, 2009 4:52 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Right wing = bad, bad.

Left wing = good, good.

If only it were that simple, but it is not!

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» The KKK has left wing roots... Posted by: james108

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Tiffany & co
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Posted by: TiffanyJewellery on Jun 7, 2009 7:36 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is universally acknowledged that Tiffany Jewellery are indispensable to us.On no account can we ignore the value of Tiffany and Silver Jewellery.

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This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.

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WE CREATE OUR OWN MONSTERS
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jun 7, 2009 8:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A cold blooded murderer has become an American past time. Suddenly the country abounds with all kinds of crazy people. Why does it take a murder? Do they like a low profle? Fact is, these people operate in full view of the rest of us and don't meet with much resistance. Sarah Palin was their most recent attempt at getting serious. She is not "just plain folk". She and her cronies are dangerous and nobody pays any attention. She and McCain lost, but not by much. Now that it's front page news will people pay attention or just 'let them be'. My bet is that nobody will upset the applecart. Everything they do is probably protected by the Constitution anyway. While America is waiting for more planes to fly into our buildings, our worst enemies live next door to us or down the street. This is not an isolated incident. ANNA

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Conservatives These Days=Crazy
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Posted by: bettyn on Jun 7, 2009 10:55 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The conservative movement, spurred on by hate radio and Faux Noise, gets crazier every day. They are dangerous as hell and have only gotten worse since an African American has become President. They simply don't recognize our government as legitimate anymore. Most of the southern United States, as well as a lot of the mountain states in the West, have be come a cancerous appendage to the rest of the nation as it tries to move forward into the 21st century. I just want to know how close this bunch is to open rebellion. From what I have seen recently, they're getting close to it. "Teabaggers" are just the tip of this rapidly growing mountain of rage and hate. I thought they were bad when Clinton was in office, but this is something much uglier and much worse.

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I Was an Anti-Abortion Fundie, Part I
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Posted by: iolanthe on Jun 7, 2009 12:02 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the 1970s, I was a 20-something full-time university student and single mother of two little boys. My boys' father and my own mother had both recently died, and my Dad, who'd been helping some with my tuition, immediately remarried a woman who was very resentful of us kids. All of us were cut off without a cent.

I was at my wit's end, and felt like a complete failure. As I struggled to earn a living and stay in school and be even a semi-competent "present" parent, my grades and health and self-esteem and parenting skills all fell apart.

Religious friends at school dragged me to their storefront church (an offshoot of Assemblies of God, *VERY* similar to Sarah Palin's church in every reference to their doctrine that I've seen).

I fell in love with Jesus, and really liked the "Instant Family" aspects of this church. I also loved suddenly not having to think, and having every aspect of my life mapped out for me. I was just so weary of carrying everything myself, and these people essentially offered to carry it all *for* me.

I became a charter member of Focus on the Family. I also became a successful "soul-winner", knocking on doors to manipulate/bully people into repeating the Sinner's Prayer so we could tally them up as "converts".

(I still love Jesus, BTW, whether he's a fictional character, or just some jerk like the rest of us who had some special insight, or truly a special divine being and Only Son of God. I'm only sorry his noisy Fan Club doesn't actually read any of what he said in the Sermon on the Mount.)

From the beginning, despite the warm family feeling, I suspected things were wrong with this church. The second week I was there, I was invited to an All-Night Youth Prayer Vigil, where we stayed up all night and various speakers called "God's fire" and "God's vengeance" down upon "the witches and the gays."

Now - I knew some Wiccans and some gay kids at school, and they were all great people, if a bit "different". Sure, I'd "come to Christ", but ... the Christ I encountered in the Bible struck me as somebody who would also have liked those kids, just like he liked and talked with the slutty woman at the well. He might have thought they were wrong, but he wouldn't have called fire down on them! I found myself wondering, "Does the God I think I serve just *zap* people merely for being *wrong*?"

That bugged me, but I just sort of glossed it over.

Then, on our soul-winning door-knocking forays, several more things bothered me:

1st, I thought we were very disrespectful to any expression of religion that varied from our own, however sincere, and including less-nutty versions of Christianity. That included the way we treated Catholics, whom my soul-winning team members assured me "weren't real Christians" but were merely heretics "serving the Whore of Babylon."

2nd, each doorstep profession of faith (including one memorable one from a girl so high on heroin she could barely stand up) was treated as sort of a Heavenly Legal Document. If these people managed to stumble through repeating the Magic Words, even if they apparently didn't know what they'd said, they were Saved, and, therefore, much better than any thoughtful or moral or principled Catholic, Atheist, Jew, Mainstream Lutheran, etc ... all of whom were viewed as just so much Cosmic Trash, bound for Hell, because they hadn't burbled their way through some crap about the Four Spiritual Laws.

Then there was the Anti-Abortion Task Force. As a Mom of small children, and a person who had been railroaded by older sisters into an abortion in her teens (I wanted to give that child up for adoption, but my sisters said that it would "kill Daddy" if I had the baby) I looked forward to serving on this Force.

(See Part II)

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I Was an Anti-Abortion Fundie, Part II
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Posted by: iolanthe on Jun 7, 2009 12:12 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My enthusiasm evaporated when I found out the Anti-Abortion Task Force also opposed birth control (without which I probably would have had 8 kids by the time I was 28, like my grandma had ... and I had my plate full with 2!).

But I went along, picketing clinics, like a Good Girl.

But I used to feel as bad for the poor scared women we were badgering as I did for the little fetuses they were carrying. I remembered what it was like to face that dilemma, and it isn't easy whichever choice you make.

Finally, my conscience got to me. So ... the next time we were scheduled to picket a clinic, I suggested that instead of carrying signs that said things like "MURDERER!" and "JEZEBEL!", we carried signs saying things like, "I WILL ADOPT YOUR BABY!" or "I WILL HELP YOU GET THROUGH COLLEGE!", or "I CAN RENT YOU & THE KID A CHEAP APARTMENT!", or "I AM OFFERING YOU A JOB WITH CHILDCARE!"

They hated this idea. I still don't know why. I think Jesus would have liked it. But in their reaction to this suggestion, I began to see the Anti-Abortion God & Guns Religious Right with new true eyes.

They are the New Pharisees. They have no love for anyone but people exactly like themselves. If Jesus showed up again, they'd damn him for ideological impurity and crucify him all over again, just like last time.

I got dropped from the Anti-Abortion Task Force. (Gee ... I wonder why?)

Like Sarah Palin's church, they believed in the Gifts of the Holy Spirit. In a prophecy, they told me I had the Gift of Word of Knowledge, the Gift of Wisdom, and the Gift of Discernment of Spirits. But every time I feel I experienced these gifts, it was in a critical reaction to something this *church* was doing.

Sometime in the early 80s, the church had a group of speakers in. It had been our custom to project the words of hymns on the back wall, or project a picture of something beautiful from God's creation, to look at while we sang or prayed with our hands in the air. We were all praying and singing and praising, eyes closed, preparing to hear the visiting speakers. I briefly opened my eyes and saw, projected on that screen, an image of Ronald Reagan posing in front of the US flag.

I was horrified. We all had our hands in the air to an image of Ronald Reagan and the flag! Horrifying idolatry. Again, at that church I kept making the mistake of actually reading the Bible on my own, and *I* remembered that many of the Bible's greatest heroes (like Daniel and Mordechai) were people who *refused* to worship an earthly king.

I pulled my hands down.

The speaker began to speak about the "duty of every Christian to take back America for God." Again, *I* remembered about separation of church and state, of the failure and abuses of State Religion everywhere it's been tried. I remembered enough history to know that many of America's founders (e.g. Paine, Franklin, Jefferson) were not traditionally religious men. But more important than what I remembered was what I *felt*:

These were not good people.
This was a scam.
It had nothing to do with God's Love, and *everything* to do with Believers controlling everyone else's lives, so it was about Pride - a deadly sin - not about Love or about Jesus.
These speakers were liars, flatterers, and manipulators without a drop of Love in them.
I knew, if they ever succeeded, that this stupid Dominionist Heresy was going to ruin the country and get a lot of good people killed, all over the world.
I kept waiting for the good people of the church to see this and drive them out.
It never happened.
They lapped it up.
I left within a month.

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» RE: You aren't alone. Posted by: kogwonton

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That's like calling all liberals fascist
[Report this comment]
Posted by: james108 on Jun 7, 2009 12:30 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So if hate is a right-wing thing, is murderous, smiling fascism a liberal thing?

At least people acknowledged Clinton's hypocrisy.

I think ignoring one of the most corrupt administrations so far, beginning before even being elected, on the basis that he sounds intelligent, compassionate and is black is racist and wrong. He thugged his way past the primaries and bought his way past the election, just as corruptly as Bush's steal. He's already indebted the public to redistribute to the elite more than Bush did in years, it seemed. He supported Bush's energy, FISA and the Patriot Act. Most ugly and horrible of all, he has people who supposedly fight wars for profit, oppression and environment pillage droning after and rationalizing the imperialist we can be proud of. He's forged an ignorant, fascist sect of rationalizers and apologizers out of these people, unless they were already like that and it's now just more apparent... I know Bush only made the republican's fascism and media's collaboration more apparent, and it didn't actually start with him either.

So far, Obama has a bigger war budget than Bush, increased presidential prerogative so much that FISA and the Patriot Act are irrelevant, since the president can and will do what he deems necessary, hired unaccountable mercenaries to do the dirty work, and the supposed liberal media eats a lot of it up, very eagerly. Now you just have to know somebody who knows somebody who might be a terrorist, whatever he chooses that is at the moment.

He increased the war in Afghanistan, ballooned the public ripoff to the wealthy and has people more tricked than Bush did, frankly.

All these are very against conservative ideals, and I'm not surprised people are getting more desperate. These are all against liberal ideals too though. As long as we support ignorance of either side, we empower the evil of both.

I do agree that it is sad that supposed conservatives rationalized the crimes of Bush and the republican party, and that all these things were OK when it was white, conservative republicans doing it. At the same, I feel it's more wrong for people who support Obama to do the same thing, now that it's a liberal, black democrat doing it. They acted like they knew better just a moment ago.

If some republican supporters are realizing what our country's doing is wrong, I don't think they should be lumped in with hate spewers. If we support the return to ignorance of imperialism and support of racist, terrorist policies, and fascism now that it's a black democrat doing it, we make the hate spewers at least partially right.

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» OK. Delude yourself. Posted by: james108
» and... Posted by: james108
» left wing smiling, happy hate Posted by: james108

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"Surprising?" Really?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: robbb3rt on Jun 7, 2009 7:16 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Surprising?" Really? Hardly. The link Between Racist Groups & Abortion Terrorists is called C-O-N-S-E-R-V-A-T-I-S-M.

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Shoouldn't Code Pink and PETA be put on a watch list?
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Posted by: Daito on Jun 7, 2009 8:24 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They are crazier than the supposed right wing groups.

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» Not pathetic, just off aim. Posted by: harryf200

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crazy
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Posted by: Juven on Jun 7, 2009 8:48 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
that so many people seem to believe ideas contrary to the status quo should be somehow regulated. A person is responsible for his or her actions, not ideas.

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» RE: crazy Posted by: John More

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"Will No One Rid Me Of This Tiresome President?"
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Posted by: Lilly on Jun 7, 2009 9:39 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In 1170 the King of England said, within the hearing of his men, "Will no one rid me of this tiresome priest?". He was speaking of the Archbishop of Canterbury, Thomas Becket, with whom he had differences. Subsequently Becket was murdered at the altar of the cathedral. History believes that the King's men thought they were obliging him and were granting his wish.

Has Uber-conservative hate talk gotten fiercer and louder since a black president was elected? Are rightist websites full of racist comments about Obama? Do right-wing media not-so-subtly urge armed insurrection? Does the conservative movement have its roots in white resentment of federally-forced integration? Is Obama in even more danger than previous presidents? I would answer "yes" to all these questions.

On TV I thought I saw a sniper on the White House roof. I lived 30 years in Washington and never noticed a sniper on the White House roof. Obama acts like Joe Cool all the time, but surely his security detail is aware of the atmosphere of hate that's fostered by the Right and that much of it is anti-Obama hate.

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Charlie Manson Went to Jail For This, Right??
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Posted by: iolanthe on Jun 7, 2009 11:45 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Isn't Charles Manson in jail for, like, forever, when he never actually laid a finger on any of those people?

As I recall, he just mentioned to his followers that it would be great if the Music Biz guy who'd jerked him around was to die. (Doris Day's son, Terry Melcher, was a music producer, a "starmaker", at Columbia records, and had lived in the murder house before Tate/Polanski. He'd heard Manson's demo record, raised his hopes, and then dropped the project. The followers got the right house, but the wrong people.)

Didn't Manson just tell his followers that kicking off a full-on race war would be an excellent thing for the planet?

Manson was convicted of murder because, supposedly, he "brainwashed" his followers via his suggestions.

How is this different from Rush, Glenn Beck, Bill O'Reilly and their similarly brainwashed audiences?

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» ACK! WRONG THREAD! Posted by: iolanthe

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Wrestling 101
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Posted by: uncleeddie on Jun 8, 2009 11:30 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All you left wing self sanctified moralists call the crazies on the right brainwashed, while you yourself reserve the moral upper ground to yourself. For 8 years the boogie man Muslim terrorists were used to strip you of your constitutional rights, and now like morons who believe wrestling is for real, you will let the same people who perpetrated that myth convince you the new boogie man is right wing extremists. Otherwise Obama would have repealed the Patriot act and restored your constitutional rights with no excuses. It's time to grow up and be real patriots. Murderers and bigots are simply that and cannot be used to take away your rights and liberties no matter what wing (right or left) these nuts claim to be. Remember Obama and Clinton before him are not the good guys who have come to save you from those bad Republicans but simply the same controllers wearing different masks.

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Bondage Sadists Love Suffering.
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Posted by: melpol on Jun 9, 2009 6:15 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is nothing as plentiful as unwanted children. There are countless urchins in third world countries begging for crumbs. Fortunately in the United States most unwanted pregnancies are aborted and children do not have to beg. But there are Bondage Sadists at work. They enjoy watching a pregnant woman suffer with an unwanted fetus. None offer to share the burden. Where were they when women were terminating their pregnancy with the wire from a coat hanger? They were silently enjoying it. Bondage Sadists have now awakened because the pain of an abortion is gone. They are now busy praying for the days of the wire coat hanger to return.

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Once More, Lets End Terrorism Rhetoric
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Posted by: Casadh on Jun 10, 2009 11:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Please, if you read this, consider this, and discourage the usage of the word "terrorism" in our language. It is a word that demonizes crimes and shifts position according to who is in power and who isn't. If we honestly believe in fairness, we *cannot* only believe in it when we *aren't* in power.

Now that the right-wing are shifting out of power, those of us on the left need to avoid repeating the injustices by the right. They called us left-wingers as traitors, terrorist-sympathizers,and guilty of treason. They loved to call animal rights and environmentalists as "eco-terrorists" (despite that neither have killed people).

Now that the right is falling out of favor, let us NOT treat crimes differently based on the ideological beliefs the individual had.

Murder is murder.

The fact that the murder was done over the issue of abortion does NOT make the murder an act of terrorism.

Let us end the usage of the rhetoric of terrorism. Not only should we object to its usage by our political opponents, but we must also object to its usage by ourselves.

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» WRONG Posted by: maddy
Alternet Comments:

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Why is anyone surprised?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: KQuark on Jun 6, 2009 1:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Extremists are all cut from the same cloth of intolerance. They all believe in superiority whether it's superiority over women's bodies or different races it does not matter.

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» RE: Why is anyone surprised? Posted by: peacefullaim1
» RE: Why is anyone surprised? Posted by: harryf200
» RE: Why is anyone surprised? Posted by: Lara1967
» RE: Why is anyone surprised? Posted by: harryf200
» RE: Why is anyone surprised? Posted by: Seranvali
» RE: Why is anyone surprised? Posted by: Walks-in-Storms
» RE: Why is anyone surprised? Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Why is anyone surprised? Posted by: harryf200
» RE: Why is anyone surprised? Posted by: Seranvali
» Bottom line Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Bottom line Posted by: jananole2080
» RE: Bottom line Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Bottom line Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Bottom line Posted by: Seranvali
» RE: Bottom line Posted by: pauldd
» RE: Bottom line Posted by: blitzmesser
» RE: Bottom line Posted by: Seranvali
» RE: Why is anyone surprised? Posted by: Seranvali

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It's Not Just One Or Two Looneytunes
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Posted by: Lilly on Jun 6, 2009 1:30 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My reaction as I read this article was, over and over, that none of this craziness is either gone or rare. Townhall.com (not a White Separatist site but one I would call mainstream Conservative---it was developed by The Heritage Foundation) is full every single day of posted comments reflecting sentiments as extreme as those described in the article about Roeder. A few at random taken from today, yesterday, or any day: 1) The argument that high-density communities should be encouraged because they use energy more efficiently is a cover-up for Obama's true intent, which is to herd people together so he can control them (confiscating all weapons will be the first step). 2) The government has no authority to impose laws. Speed limits, helmet laws, noise regulation, school attendance, age of consent etc etc, all are unsupported by the Constitution. 3) Taxation is theft. 4) Our Judiciary should be replaced by military tribunals. 5) Anyone who kills an abortion provider is a hero. 6) The franchise should be limited to land-owning married males >age 35 with a military background. 7) Life membership in the NRA should be required of every holder of public office. 8) Obama is in cahoots with Muslim extremists, to whom he intends to deliver us.

I have been trying for five minutes to end this post with a summarizing sentence and find that I can't. At first I think, it's impossible to judge nationwide sentiment from the self-selected sample provided in voluntary posts to a dedicated website, but then I think...Hannity, Limbaugh, Limbaugh frere, O'Reilly, Savage, Beck, and dozens more are feeding what seems to be a national appetite of significant dimensions. Rush Limbaugh's new contract guarantees him $400 million over the next eight years and, according to Media Matters, his employer Clear Channel Radio had to fire nearly 3000 radio professionals in order to come up with the money: they must be finding him a good investment.

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» RE: Your summarizing statement Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Very true Posted by: james108
» RE: Very true Posted by: fred_53_99
» A little science Posted by: wolfgangmo75

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White Wing
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Jun 6, 2009 2:42 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To paraphrase Professor Henry Higgins from Lerner and Loewe's My Fair Lady:

This racial class distinction by now should be antique;
If you thought as they do, sir, instead of the way you do.
Why you might be quite the bigot, too....

You would think that this type of thinking went the way of the Whig and Know Nothing parties, wouldn't you? Yeah, I would, too. We both would be wrong, though. These assholes are far everywhere - and we're not talking merely the "usual suspects', either - or in the regions of the country we might define as "atypical" for this type of thinking.

I know a person - devout Catholic, seemingly decent, the Mary Poppins sort: "Practically Perfect in Every Way". The morning after President Obama's election, this woman was beside herself; even more so than after Clinton's elections in 1992 and 1996. It soon became apparent to me that she (and her son, who was also present) just could not stomach the thought of a BLACK MAN livin in that ol' WHITE HOUSE.

"Oh, Mammy! Pass me mah smellin' salts!

White supremists are not as "underground" as you might believe. They're everywhere.

Post #228: Random Thoughts

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY

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» RE: White Wing Posted by: andrushka
» This isn't reverse racism Posted by: crashgrab
» RE: no such thing... Posted by: WyrdSister
» RE: no such thing... Posted by: Seranvali

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A creepy minority of aging white males
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Posted by: Perry Logan on Jun 6, 2009 2:43 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Hannity, Limbaugh...Beck, and dozens more are feeding what seems to be a national appetite of significant dimensions."

Don't worry. While there is such an appetite, it is not as significant as it pretends to be.

Our media is heavily biased to the right, hiding the fact that the right in America have been, are, and always will be a creepy minority of aging white males. :)

The airwaves are not filled with right-wing sewage because people are clamoring for it--but because the bad guys own the radio stations:

"The Structural Imbalance of Political Talk Radio"

Polls show that less than half the audience for hate radio identifies itself as conservative. America is not full of crazy people hungry to hear this crap. Like everything else about the political right, hate radio is a complete fraud.


Swine!

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» RE: look at me!!..PLEASE LOOK AT ME!! Posted by: BigElectricCat
» good point Posted by: james108

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the need for anti-hate laws...
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Posted by: Bearzerker on Jun 6, 2009 3:15 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... is self evident from Dr. Tillers hate inspired murder!

why do the federals pretend we're a free people and say they're protecting constitutional rights when they've been usurping all powers since 1968 under the guise of national security...
How bloated does the Federal bureaucracy need to get before we figure out the simple fact that they're only serving themselves?
Just follow the money... corporate money too and you'll see just how much has been lost in the past 50 years!

The Democrats won`t protect our values...
the lobby interests are to well funded to allow them any freedom of action.
The Republicans started this so they won't or can't either...
besides the fact that they were installed by their corporate crony friends.

The US is reaping what it sowed and the freedom meter cant fall any further!
Its funny that some rights can be devalued due to national security but anti-hate laws will never see the light of day because... what again?

land of the free indeed!
Long live the CORPORATE STATES OF AMERICA... not!

-- Mel Gibson in "The Patriot"
I would rather have 1 tyrant 3000 miles away then 3000 tyrants 1 mile away

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» damned right! Posted by: BlueBerry PickN

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Not only Illegal,but Heresy and cowardice
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Posted by: Purple Girl on Jun 6, 2009 4:48 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Beyond the Civil Rights which our Founders Aspired to (No they HAD to add the 3/5's to get All 13 states to Sign- it was not originally in there,boys and girls)- Their ideology is Blatantly Blasphemous and Heretical. 'the mud people are Gods failed attempts at Adam and Eve'????? God Almighty, Creator of heaven and Earth Fails?Excuse Me? Tell me where such an Admission from God is Written. Oh can't find one,so this is merely THEIR Judgement.Gee what jelaous and hateful entity would claim such a right to judge Gods Creations.What part of 'Judge not lest thy be Judged' Eludes their mental abilities? Not only are they passing judgement on the Creations, But also the Creator.
Heres a lil' thouuhgt for them to chew on too in regards to the Women. Why did the Almighty decide to grant Women the innate blessing of actually bringing forth life (much like Himslef) and the ability to nurture it, and not men? Why did God CHOOSE to use a Female to give Birth to Christ, when He could obviously very easily have created him as a full Grown man and descended him from the Heavens?God has yet to use His Almighty powers to Revoke that priviledge to Women- perhaps He approves of the decisions we make. Lest we forget God periodically performs abortions too- miscarriages and still births.
Not only do these Groups prove they have no reverence for the One and only One Almighty or the USA, they exude the fact that they are nothing more than fearful cowards. They are terrified if they don't oppress the other groups, they will be shown to lack the abilities to compete on a level playing field. Why do they think so little of their own White maleness? Why must they try to stack the deck, slant the field, Lower the Bar for themselves? Do they think they need a unfair edge, need a lil help making the grade? Seems minorities have taken on the challenge, shown no such fears or cowardice when competing against white males. So Whatsa matta You? Low Self Esteem?Self Loathing? Got a wicked Yellow Stripe down your back( to match those shoe laces)?
So not only do these groups prove they have absolutely NO concept of What America Stands For, they have no Reverence for the Almighty, nor any confidence in themselves.I'm not calling you Cowardly UnAmerican Satan worshippers- You've made that judgement on yourselves,through your words and actions.
"Thou Protest Too Much"

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» RE: White maleness Posted by: songbird1268

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White Americans - directly descended from God???
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Posted by: Ghoulman on Jun 6, 2009 4:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... descended from God!?!?! wtf?!?!

I thought I knew a lot about the white supremacists, especially after the skinhead indoctrinations in the 90s, and much about the bigoted nature of America culture... but, descended from God!?!?! Wow! That I never knew.

Incredible! This article taught me something new and deeply frightening.

I can't even begin to comment. The fact it's wildly blasphemous, arrogant in the extreme, and more than a little Scientology like I don't know if I should laugh, cry, or start digging a hole. Not to mention adding an entire dimension to right wing code words like 'manifest destiny'. Suddenly Pay Robertson's giggling is scary, not silly.

I don't really have anything to say here, I'm totally floored. I'll only suggest; beware of Xenu. ;p

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Fine Examples of White Male Superiority
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Posted by: peterjkraus on Jun 6, 2009 5:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I get a kick out of seeing pics of these Superior Beings: slovenly appearance is the norm, a propensity for overeating evident, their "writings" replete with even the most simple mistakes, their "thinking", if measured by the results of that for them evidently uncommon exercise, extremely strange, to say the least. These people demonstrate the superiority of the white race? Of any race or gender? God help us all.

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There's also a link between the pro gun crowd.
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Posted by: Karlh on Jun 6, 2009 5:37 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
White male homophobes who love God and their guns.

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Who is surprised?
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Posted by: GPFrank on Jun 6, 2009 5:48 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a repeat of my last night's post
after "Campus Progress" on the new radical right
against abortion:

This radicalism as part of a movement to re-institute slavery, pure
and simple. That is, slavery over women.
They really would like the kind of regime as happened with the
Latter Day Saints colony in Texas. But there is also included a
minority among who believe in the institution of "kept" women.
"Innocent fertilized eggs" be dammed. They have given away their true
motive in the new attacks on birth control and condoms. At least some
women will be subdued in the face of the terror and propaganda
including falsification of medical data. I believe slavery over Blacks
would make them happy, too. While that is politically impossible
these folks believe that slavery is part of the natural human
condition. They believe the proper use of free speech is to bring
about slavery over those "less than human".

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Yeah - Mouth Breathing Haters Just Wuv Widdle Babies ...
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Posted by: iolanthe on Jun 6, 2009 5:59 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Doesn't surprise me. Absolutely *NONE* of this crap is about the great love for, and respect for, and care for, helpless innocent unborn babies.

It is about authoritarianism and hatred of women.

In that light, the great paradox of folks who claim to weep for the poor unborn, but seem not to care a whit for already born folks, isn't such a paradox after all.

Glad this is coming to light. Now, maybe some of the truly compassionate people, some of the devout Catholics who are essentially kind folks, but who never examine or question church doctrine, may see how they are being "played" by evil people whose agenda has nothing whatever to do with respect for God or life.

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» Truth resolving paradoxes Posted by: maddy

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Don't know why anyone would be surprised by this
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Posted by: sausage on Jun 6, 2009 6:01 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One of the long held tenets of white supremacists is that the "white" race is under assault and doomed to extinction if something isn't done.

After all blonds will be extinct as a species within 50 to 200 years, so you blond white people better start f*cking like monkeys and dropping babies like rabbits toute de suite!

And of course there is the double entendre inherent in the term "snowflake babies" coined by "Christian" embryo adoption organizations. Interestingly if you Google, or do an image search on Yahoo or Bing for "snowflake babies," you get pictures of Caucasian babies.

You see man was made in "god's" image. So it's not the fault of white, "Christian" Americans if "god" happens to look like a middle-aged Northern European man.

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This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
» Point taken, Mike! Posted by: harryf200

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b kenneth mcgee, author Eyes Shut Tight
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Posted by: rfgtile on Jun 6, 2009 6:36 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In twenty years (1965-1985) spent as a politcal campaign consultant I worked for both liberals and conservatives.

In the past several years it seems that the conservative movement has changed dramatically. The heart of their movement has been turned over to the radical, less educataead, and violent sub culture that calls itself conservative. It is scary.

I remember that in my experience the conservatives were much easier to work with...they would take orders, march in straight lines..and would literally almost jucmp out of a plane without a parachute if ordered. They were smug and somewhat dull.

On the other hand...the liberals would argue with you all day about what number lead pencil to use...never wanted to take orders...and could drive you crazy. They were also....more fun.

I suspect thngs haven't changed much regarding the liberals. They are till not organized...can still drive you crazy...and are still a lot more fun...hmmmm...maybe a little smug now though.

The conservatives, on the other hand, have become radicalized...have turned to the less educated and hate filled of their numbers...still easier to organize and direct... and smug has turned to rightous. I suspect that parachutes are still not required!

God help us!

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Diff Between "Righteous" and "Self-Righteous"
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Posted by: iolanthe on Jun 6, 2009 7:04 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There's a big difference between "righteous" and "self-righteous". Being righteous is a good thing. It means being fair and consistent.

The language loses something important when righteous and self-righteous (i.e. phony righteous) are turned into synonyms.

Self-righteous people, constantly patting themselves on the back for their wonderfulness, are the opposite of righteous people.

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Fear of change
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Posted by: LeonBNJ on Jun 6, 2009 7:15 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To me, many of the right-wing extremeists and their mouthpieces like Rush, are acting out of fear of change in America. They seem to look at nostalga at and want to return to the America of just after WWII and until the mid-1950's. Before civil rights, greater regulation of our lives and use of property; before legal abortion; a time where White European ancestry men had absolute rule of thier homes, over their wives, absolute access to the best paying employment opportunites and power of government. Everyone was a patriot, didn't critize government, hated anything not American and especially 'Commies'.
That fear of change is also part of religious cult organiations, often with racial segeration, control of women and against abortion, adhering to such beliefs as a guaranteed ticket to heaven.
We all must be diligent to watch for the extremeists before they do terrorist acts but not supress their freedom of speech. We must demostrate in our lives the goal of best for the common good and to hate is futile.

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» Not really Posted by: james108

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Excellent Article
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Posted by: dumdumboy on Jun 6, 2009 7:43 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
An eye-opener that makes one shudder.

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Anti-choice and Nazis: Long history of concordance
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Posted by: Baukunin on Jun 6, 2009 7:55 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hitler was an anti-abortionist.

The folks at Operation Rescue West are aggressively pro-war. Troy Newman used their "Truth Truck" to repeatedly block the path of a February 2003 anti-war march from Bethel College to the town square in Newton, Kansas.

They have utter contempt for Muslims.

They only believe in bringing Jews back to Israel to fulfill a biblical "prophesy," were they will eventually be doomed to boiling in a lake of fire.

The phone number for Cheryl Sullinger, a convicted clinic bombing plotter, was on the seat next to Roeder when he was apprehended, fleeing 200 miles from the crime scene where he assassinated Dr. Tiller.

They too don't believe in paying taxes, including income and employee and property taxes. The IRS lifted the Operation Rescue West tax-exempt status in August of 2006. They
bought many properties with the proceeds of their "anti-abortion" campaign.

They have physically and verbally harassed women seeking medical services, and the escorts of those women in Wichita. They have stalked clinic employees in their homes and their daily lives.

I am frankly unable to draw a great distinction between the anti-choice activists and the neo-Nazis.

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We're still paying for the U.S. Civil War
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Posted by: xvictor on Jun 6, 2009 8:08 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Those kinda folks are merely Abe Lincoln's bastards creations. Ironically, he'd fit in well with them.

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America the blessed with Freedom of Speech
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Posted by: canadagirl on Jun 6, 2009 8:48 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oppression is a phenomena that is as radical as White Supremecy. Oppression is 'slavery' defined whether racist or gender id, religion. Oppression is a 'White Man's tool' to control, finance, employment, status, faith, human right's, constitutional right's, every part of everyone's life.

I am a White female, christian, liberal, metis, have a family made up of every race, faith, sexual id.. 'Whiteness' is / has been on the top as far as wars, military, conquests, partitians of countries, economic highs and economic lows.

Whiteness is what they think is 'exceptionalism, but actually is a culture of cognitive 'Rightness', 'Perfection' they feel. This has been the case throughout history, regardless of being of one race when God created Adam and Eve.

Their arrogance (some/not all) is an 'adolph hitler mentality' of "purism'. You look at Christianity over the years, being the second religion created in ancient times, and really only after God rejected the Jews a second time, opening up his followers to gentiles also, but warning the Jewish population to abide by his laws and they too have his blessing along with gentiles.

This Superiority of White Race is utter nonsense. This / my ... race has little as much about God, but has everything to do with 'purity of heart', and a set of guidlines outlined in the Bible, how to live life.

Once again, The Republican Pary have dishonered God/Yaweh, Jesus, and told the World, they are the exceptionalist in society. This all started with......'a black president', too much for them to handle, and ........Republican Party has been dumbed down in the past twenty years to what is 'the racisal right', calling themselves the chrisitan right, but their apparent 'exceptionalism' is realized when they put God/Jesus in a closet, and tell the country and the World, they are in charge, no abortions, no healthcare, no black president, no being nice to foreign countries.

Diplomacy is not their goal, Dictatorship is. America is going backward if we listen to the 'creepy', insulting, deranged, white guy with his gun at his side while holding his beloved Bible. He has urinated on the 'Force' of this World, created himself as 'not in the image of God', but, God. They are all God's now, here on earth. They make the moral decisions, they control peoples paychecks and party affiliates. They are a dangerous, unhealthy product of evil.

Liz Cheney talked about American 'Exceptionalism, two days in a row. Does anyone know what the rest of the World thinks of American 'EXceptionalism'? Do they care to know? Just another blustery statement to define this terrorist group in America.

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Yes, of course . . .
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Posted by: Walks-in-Storms on Jun 6, 2009 8:52 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The most typical tactic of today's mangled political discourse is that of odious comparison, or the "FoxNews Question" ("Is it possible that . . .?").

Tell me, what is more odious than killing a baby?

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» RE: Yes, of course . . . Posted by: rinthy
» RE: Yes, of course . . . Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Yes, of course . . . Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Yes, of course . . . Posted by: Lilly

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physician
[Report this comment]
Posted by: azarbali@cox.net on Jun 6, 2009 9:15 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anti-choice movement not only are Racists, but also are Pro-war, they claim that they are pro-life, but they do not mind to kill a million peaple in Iraq, or Afghanistan, they belong to Bush/Cheney war and torture team!!

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» Bit of a generalisation ... Posted by: harryf200

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Roeder is a cold-blooded killer...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Quannah on Jun 6, 2009 9:34 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and he is a member of the White Separatist movement.

He is involved in the Militia movement in Montana.

He is a member of the militant Freemen.

He is deeply involved with militant, violent anti-abortion groups.

He is a believer in crazy right-wing apocalyptic Christianity.

He is involved with militant Anti-Tax groups.

And why is he NOT considered a TERRORIST???

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Far, far too many generalizations in this propaganda piece!!!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: JohnTruth2001 on Jun 6, 2009 9:44 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are many, many reasonable people who are uncomfortable with abortion or certain aspects of it!

Abortion is also a preferred method of eugenicists, who do not present themselves as violent white supremacists, but as lefty "intelligentsia", much like the author of the article and the sheeple who made the above comments!

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» That idea came because... Posted by: harryf200
» RE: That idea came because... Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: That idea came because... Posted by: harryf200
» RE: That idea came because... Posted by: pelican beak

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All right, already
[Report this comment]
Posted by: willymack on Jun 6, 2009 9:45 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So, we're all aware the roeder creature is a homicidal moron. We also know he was probably egged on by those who'd rather remain "anonymous". Finally, we know that law enforcement in this case was, to put it mildly, lacking.
This deadly combination got a doctor murdered.
The question here is how do you prevent a recurrence of this crime?
Let's get back to the murderer. What would he have been like if he were properly EDUCATED, for instance? What would be the difference in his thinking if he'd been exposed to a wider variety of ideas and factual information in his formative years? What if he'd grown up in a truly nurturing enviornment?
In a bad economic situation such as this one, education and social programs are among the first to suffer cutbacks or elimination, while the war machine rolls merrily along.
If this isn't a receipe for suicide, I don't know what is.How much longer do our "leaders" expect us to accept the disappearance of ten billion dollars a month into two "war" fronts which should never have been there in the first place? How much more should we be forced to take on "faith"?
Just think of what could be accomplished by putting that ten billion dollars a month into truly needful things like education and a national health care system. It might even reduce the kind of tragedy that happened in Kansas.

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Put up or shut up
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Posted by: Jeanne on Jun 6, 2009 12:40 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When the anti-abortion, anti-choice movement offers real options, then they deserve consideration. When they open orphanages and clinics to care for expectant women and offer a safe place to carry the baby to term without fear of reprisal from family or others; and when they offer a place for irreversibly damaged babies to be cared for until they die of the congenital malformation that causes women to seek abortions; and when they assure us that any child that is born, but not wanted by the birth mother, will be cared for to adulthood, and offered the same opportunities to health care, and education, and a nurturing environment that we, as Americans expect (even though we often don't deliver), then the anti-choice movement has the right to demand an end to abortion. While their concern for the fetus begins at conception and ends at delivery, they have no right to pry into the lives and decisions of their fellow citizens.

And, the anti-choice terrorists and their enablers need to recognize that preventing unwanted pregnancies prevents abortions. Therefore, they need to support sex education, contraceptive availability and recognize that abstinence is not realistic (to quote Bristol Palin).

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» Excellent post, Jeanne Posted by: pelican beak

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Nutcases
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Posted by: frank69 on Jun 6, 2009 12:40 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So-called militias, tax dodgers, and anti-abortionists. All cut from the same crazy "cloth." Pick up your crayons at the door, nutcases.

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Regarding chattel
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Posted by: pelican beak on Jun 6, 2009 1:18 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Re: "What was the bridge between the posse movement and anti-abortionist fanaticism? The Sovereign crowd viewed women as chattel, and the prospect of an independent woman deciding to seek an abortion didn't sit well with them."

When all is said and done about us, if the abuse humanity has inflicted on itself, on its fellow Earthlife, and on Earth's dynamic life-supporting capacities is studied and accounted for by some outside intelligent being, I suspect the very notion of "ownership" - of land, of nation, of plants and animals, of other people, of ANYTHING - will prove to have been a primary social cause.

This would include "collective ownership" every bit as much as "private ownership" - both capitalist AND communist senses of ownership are part of the root problem.

When the Euro-Mesopotamian culture set out to colonize the rest of the world around 1500, this concept drove their madness. Religion was but its useful handmaiden.

Perhaps 10,000 years ago, when humanity systematically began to fabricate the legal, economic, social, and political concept of land ownership and territorial propriety, as opposed to the informal non-owning concept of "inhabited space," we started our way down a very dark road that has grown very dangerous. We apparently can't fathom our way out of it, because we are hostages to the services of our deeply-ingrained culture of greed and gluttony.

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FYI, when it comes to race and abortion, Obama ain't no LBJ.
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Posted by: John More on Jun 6, 2009 3:17 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If 1965 were to have Obama and the Democrats in Congress we see today, civil rights legislation would have never passed. LBJ may have been a fucking traitor on Vietnam War just like Dubya was on Iraq but at least LBJ had the fucking balls to pass that legislation. Obama on the other hand will most likely "pardon" Scott Roeder just like he allowed Rick FUCKING Warren to speak at the inauguration. Obama has no respect for women's reproductive rights and he ain't gotta fucking vote of his to prove it. The same goes for most Democrats in Congress but I'm gonna laugh and drink another two bottles of beer because most of you poor femis voted Democrat and sold yourselves out so you're gonna get a taste of your own stupidity. The radical violent right is here to stay and they know Obama, Pelosi, Reid, and the rest of the fucking losers in the Democratic Party will join the GOP and cave right into them. My comrade brother in eastern CA and myself in eastern TX are proud gun toting liberals who know better than all those fucking sellouts in the Democratic Party ya'll keep worshipping !

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» You got that right, comrade ! Posted by: John More

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Bondage Loving Sadists.
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Posted by: melpol on Jun 6, 2009 4:53 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Gangs of bondage loving sadists are torturing pregnant women. Concerned Americans have more things to be concerned about than the status of a strangers fetus. But bondage loving sadists want women trapped for nine months with an unwanted pregnancy. They were in ecstasy to hear of Doctor Tillers death. If there is a Devil they will rot in hell for enjoying the obscene thrill of his murder.

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I Always Put The Children FIRST
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Posted by: tony_opmoc on Jun 6, 2009 5:03 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I Always Put The Children First

Because We Brought Them Into The World

It is Not The Children's Fault We Have Completely Fucked It Up

But I Always Put The Women First

Any Other Cunt Can Go and Fuck Off

Tony

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Right-wing filth.
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Posted by: archives@uwyo.edu on Jun 6, 2009 5:18 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Basically, right wingers are liars bullies, and crooks. Anti-choice is pulling a fetus-child scam. They love to bully others, especially with pretended virtue, and they think they have a license to murder others.

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Camn anyone tell me, where do the BLACK anti abortion folk ....
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Posted by: harryf200 on Jun 6, 2009 5:48 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... fit in with this "White Supremacist = Pro-life" model?

Don't shoot me - I'm just asking!

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Ignorance
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Posted by: AdamDunny on Jun 6, 2009 7:57 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wow, Ignorance truly is bliss! Living proof!

RT
Is your ISP watching?

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» Don't Click, Identity Theft! Posted by: theblackgeorgecarlin

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Why does this seem like a cleverly-crafted propaganda piece, desperate to paint anyone
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Posted by: JohnTruth2001 on Jun 7, 2009 4:49 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
who legitimately question abortion, our government, taxes, 9/11, etc., as being the same as murderous Scott Roeder???

Furthermore, many of the other "villains" in the article (Ku Klux Klan, Nazis, skinheads, etc.) were provocateured by the NWO/globalists of their day, rather than merely random nut-jobs coming together.

Wake-up, sheeple!

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» RE: What Would Hamlet Do?? Posted by: BigElectricCat

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Oh, I see: Right wing bad, bad but left wing good, good.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: JohnTruth2001 on Jun 7, 2009 4:52 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Right wing = bad, bad.

Left wing = good, good.

If only it were that simple, but it is not!

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» The KKK has left wing roots... Posted by: james108

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Tiffany & co
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Posted by: TiffanyJewellery on Jun 7, 2009 7:36 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is universally acknowledged that Tiffany Jewellery are indispensable to us.On no account can we ignore the value of Tiffany and Silver Jewellery.

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This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.

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WE CREATE OUR OWN MONSTERS
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jun 7, 2009 8:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A cold blooded murderer has become an American past time. Suddenly the country abounds with all kinds of crazy people. Why does it take a murder? Do they like a low profle? Fact is, these people operate in full view of the rest of us and don't meet with much resistance. Sarah Palin was their most recent attempt at getting serious. She is not "just plain folk". She and her cronies are dangerous and nobody pays any attention. She and McCain lost, but not by much. Now that it's front page news will people pay attention or just 'let them be'. My bet is that nobody will upset the applecart. Everything they do is probably protected by the Constitution anyway. While America is waiting for more planes to fly into our buildings, our worst enemies live next door to us or down the street. This is not an isolated incident. ANNA

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Conservatives These Days=Crazy
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Posted by: bettyn on Jun 7, 2009 10:55 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The conservative movement, spurred on by hate radio and Faux Noise, gets crazier every day. They are dangerous as hell and have only gotten worse since an African American has become President. They simply don't recognize our government as legitimate anymore. Most of the southern United States, as well as a lot of the mountain states in the West, have be come a cancerous appendage to the rest of the nation as it tries to move forward into the 21st century. I just want to know how close this bunch is to open rebellion. From what I have seen recently, they're getting close to it. "Teabaggers" are just the tip of this rapidly growing mountain of rage and hate. I thought they were bad when Clinton was in office, but this is something much uglier and much worse.

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I Was an Anti-Abortion Fundie, Part I
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Posted by: iolanthe on Jun 7, 2009 12:02 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the 1970s, I was a 20-something full-time university student and single mother of two little boys. My boys' father and my own mother had both recently died, and my Dad, who'd been helping some with my tuition, immediately remarried a woman who was very resentful of us kids. All of us were cut off without a cent.

I was at my wit's end, and felt like a complete failure. As I struggled to earn a living and stay in school and be even a semi-competent "present" parent, my grades and health and self-esteem and parenting skills all fell apart.

Religious friends at school dragged me to their storefront church (an offshoot of Assemblies of God, *VERY* similar to Sarah Palin's church in every reference to their doctrine that I've seen).

I fell in love with Jesus, and really liked the "Instant Family" aspects of this church. I also loved suddenly not having to think, and having every aspect of my life mapped out for me. I was just so weary of carrying everything myself, and these people essentially offered to carry it all *for* me.

I became a charter member of Focus on the Family. I also became a successful "soul-winner", knocking on doors to manipulate/bully people into repeating the Sinner's Prayer so we could tally them up as "converts".

(I still love Jesus, BTW, whether he's a fictional character, or just some jerk like the rest of us who had some special insight, or truly a special divine being and Only Son of God. I'm only sorry his noisy Fan Club doesn't actually read any of what he said in the Sermon on the Mount.)

From the beginning, despite the warm family feeling, I suspected things were wrong with this church. The second week I was there, I was invited to an All-Night Youth Prayer Vigil, where we stayed up all night and various speakers called "God's fire" and "God's vengeance" down upon "the witches and the gays."

Now - I knew some Wiccans and some gay kids at school, and they were all great people, if a bit "different". Sure, I'd "come to Christ", but ... the Christ I encountered in the Bible struck me as somebody who would also have liked those kids, just like he liked and talked with the slutty woman at the well. He might have thought they were wrong, but he wouldn't have called fire down on them! I found myself wondering, "Does the God I think I serve just *zap* people merely for being *wrong*?"

That bugged me, but I just sort of glossed it over.

Then, on our soul-winning door-knocking forays, several more things bothered me:

1st, I thought we were very disrespectful to any expression of religion that varied from our own, however sincere, and including less-nutty versions of Christianity. That included the way we treated Catholics, whom my soul-winning team members assured me "weren't real Christians" but were merely heretics "serving the Whore of Babylon."

2nd, each doorstep profession of faith (including one memorable one from a girl so high on heroin she could barely stand up) was treated as sort of a Heavenly Legal Document. If these people managed to stumble through repeating the Magic Words, even if they apparently didn't know what they'd said, they were Saved, and, therefore, much better than any thoughtful or moral or principled Catholic, Atheist, Jew, Mainstream Lutheran, etc ... all of whom were viewed as just so much Cosmic Trash, bound for Hell, because they hadn't burbled their way through some crap about the Four Spiritual Laws.

Then there was the Anti-Abortion Task Force. As a Mom of small children, and a person who had been railroaded by older sisters into an abortion in her teens (I wanted to give that child up for adoption, but my sisters said that it would "kill Daddy" if I had the baby) I looked forward to serving on this Force.

(See Part II)

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I Was an Anti-Abortion Fundie, Part II
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Posted by: iolanthe on Jun 7, 2009 12:12 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My enthusiasm evaporated when I found out the Anti-Abortion Task Force also opposed birth control (without which I probably would have had 8 kids by the time I was 28, like my grandma had ... and I had my plate full with 2!).

But I went along, picketing clinics, like a Good Girl.

But I used to feel as bad for the poor scared women we were badgering as I did for the little fetuses they were carrying. I remembered what it was like to face that dilemma, and it isn't easy whichever choice you make.

Finally, my conscience got to me. So ... the next time we were scheduled to picket a clinic, I suggested that instead of carrying signs that said things like "MURDERER!" and "JEZEBEL!", we carried signs saying things like, "I WILL ADOPT YOUR BABY!" or "I WILL HELP YOU GET THROUGH COLLEGE!", or "I CAN RENT YOU & THE KID A CHEAP APARTMENT!", or "I AM OFFERING YOU A JOB WITH CHILDCARE!"

They hated this idea. I still don't know why. I think Jesus would have liked it. But in their reaction to this suggestion, I began to see the Anti-Abortion God & Guns Religious Right with new true eyes.

They are the New Pharisees. They have no love for anyone but people exactly like themselves. If Jesus showed up again, they'd damn him for ideological impurity and crucify him all over again, just like last time.

I got dropped from the Anti-Abortion Task Force. (Gee ... I wonder why?)

Like Sarah Palin's church, they believed in the Gifts of the Holy Spirit. In a prophecy, they told me I had the Gift of Word of Knowledge, the Gift of Wisdom, and the Gift of Discernment of Spirits. But every time I feel I experienced these gifts, it was in a critical reaction to something this *church* was doing.

Sometime in the early 80s, the church had a group of speakers in. It had been our custom to project the words of hymns on the back wall, or project a picture of something beautiful from God's creation, to look at while we sang or prayed with our hands in the air. We were all praying and singing and praising, eyes closed, preparing to hear the visiting speakers. I briefly opened my eyes and saw, projected on that screen, an image of Ronald Reagan posing in front of the US flag.

I was horrified. We all had our hands in the air to an image of Ronald Reagan and the flag! Horrifying idolatry. Again, at that church I kept making the mistake of actually reading the Bible on my own, and *I* remembered that many of the Bible's greatest heroes (like Daniel and Mordechai) were people who *refused* to worship an earthly king.

I pulled my hands down.

The speaker began to speak about the "duty of every Christian to take back America for God." Again, *I* remembered about separation of church and state, of the failure and abuses of State Religion everywhere it's been tried. I remembered enough history to know that many of America's founders (e.g. Paine, Franklin, Jefferson) were not traditionally religious men. But more important than what I remembered was what I *felt*:

These were not good people.
This was a scam.
It had nothing to do with God's Love, and *everything* to do with Believers controlling everyone else's lives, so it was about Pride - a deadly sin - not about Love or about Jesus.
These speakers were liars, flatterers, and manipulators without a drop of Love in them.
I knew, if they ever succeeded, that this stupid Dominionist Heresy was going to ruin the country and get a lot of good people killed, all over the world.
I kept waiting for the good people of the church to see this and drive them out.
It never happened.
They lapped it up.
I left within a month.

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» RE: You aren't alone. Posted by: kogwonton

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That's like calling all liberals fascist
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Posted by: james108 on Jun 7, 2009 12:30 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So if hate is a right-wing thing, is murderous, smiling fascism a liberal thing?

At least people acknowledged Clinton's hypocrisy.

I think ignoring one of the most corrupt administrations so far, beginning before even being elected, on the basis that he sounds intelligent, compassionate and is black is racist and wrong. He thugged his way past the primaries and bought his way past the election, just as corruptly as Bush's steal. He's already indebted the public to redistribute to the elite more than Bush did in years, it seemed. He supported Bush's energy, FISA and the Patriot Act. Most ugly and horrible of all, he has people who supposedly fight wars for profit, oppression and environment pillage droning after and rationalizing the imperialist we can be proud of. He's forged an ignorant, fascist sect of rationalizers and apologizers out of these people, unless they were already like that and it's now just more apparent... I know Bush only made the republican's fascism and media's collaboration more apparent, and it didn't actually start with him either.

So far, Obama has a bigger war budget than Bush, increased presidential prerogative so much that FISA and the Patriot Act are irrelevant, since the president can and will do what he deems necessary, hired unaccountable mercenaries to do the dirty work, and the supposed liberal media eats a lot of it up, very eagerly. Now you just have to know somebody who knows somebody who might be a terrorist, whatever he chooses that is at the moment.

He increased the war in Afghanistan, ballooned the public ripoff to the wealthy and has people more tricked than Bush did, frankly.

All these are very against conservative ideals, and I'm not surprised people are getting more desperate. These are all against liberal ideals too though. As long as we support ignorance of either side, we empower the evil of both.

I do agree that it is sad that supposed conservatives rationalized the crimes of Bush and the republican party, and that all these things were OK when it was white, conservative republicans doing it. At the same, I feel it's more wrong for people who support Obama to do the same thing, now that it's a liberal, black democrat doing it. They acted like they knew better just a moment ago.

If some republican supporters are realizing what our country's doing is wrong, I don't think they should be lumped in with hate spewers. If we support the return to ignorance of imperialism and support of racist, terrorist policies, and fascism now that it's a black democrat doing it, we make the hate spewers at least partially right.

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» OK. Delude yourself. Posted by: james108
» and... Posted by: james108
» left wing smiling, happy hate Posted by: james108

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"Surprising?" Really?
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Posted by: robbb3rt on Jun 7, 2009 7:16 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Surprising?" Really? Hardly. The link Between Racist Groups & Abortion Terrorists is called C-O-N-S-E-R-V-A-T-I-S-M.

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Shoouldn't Code Pink and PETA be put on a watch list?
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Posted by: Daito on Jun 7, 2009 8:24 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They are crazier than the supposed right wing groups.

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» Not pathetic, just off aim. Posted by: harryf200

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crazy
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Posted by: Juven on Jun 7, 2009 8:48 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
that so many people seem to believe ideas contrary to the status quo should be somehow regulated. A person is responsible for his or her actions, not ideas.

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» RE: crazy Posted by: John More

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"Will No One Rid Me Of This Tiresome President?"
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Posted by: Lilly on Jun 7, 2009 9:39 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In 1170 the King of England said, within the hearing of his men, "Will no one rid me of this tiresome priest?". He was speaking of the Archbishop of Canterbury, Thomas Becket, with whom he had differences. Subsequently Becket was murdered at the altar of the cathedral. History believes that the King's men thought they were obliging him and were granting his wish.

Has Uber-conservative hate talk gotten fiercer and louder since a black president was elected? Are rightist websites full of racist comments about Obama? Do right-wing media not-so-subtly urge armed insurrection? Does the conservative movement have its roots in white resentment of federally-forced integration? Is Obama in even more danger than previous presidents? I would answer "yes" to all these questions.

On TV I thought I saw a sniper on the White House roof. I lived 30 years in Washington and never noticed a sniper on the White House roof. Obama acts like Joe Cool all the time, but surely his security detail is aware of the atmosphere of hate that's fostered by the Right and that much of it is anti-Obama hate.

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Charlie Manson Went to Jail For This, Right??
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Posted by: iolanthe on Jun 7, 2009 11:45 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Isn't Charles Manson in jail for, like, forever, when he never actually laid a finger on any of those people?

As I recall, he just mentioned to his followers that it would be great if the Music Biz guy who'd jerked him around was to die. (Doris Day's son, Terry Melcher, was a music producer, a "starmaker", at Columbia records, and had lived in the murder house before Tate/Polanski. He'd heard Manson's demo record, raised his hopes, and then dropped the project. The followers got the right house, but the wrong people.)

Didn't Manson just tell his followers that kicking off a full-on race war would be an excellent thing for the planet?

Manson was convicted of murder because, supposedly, he "brainwashed" his followers via his suggestions.

How is this different from Rush, Glenn Beck, Bill O'Reilly and their similarly brainwashed audiences?

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» ACK! WRONG THREAD! Posted by: iolanthe

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Wrestling 101
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Posted by: uncleeddie on Jun 8, 2009 11:30 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All you left wing self sanctified moralists call the crazies on the right brainwashed, while you yourself reserve the moral upper ground to yourself. For 8 years the boogie man Muslim terrorists were used to strip you of your constitutional rights, and now like morons who believe wrestling is for real, you will let the same people who perpetrated that myth convince you the new boogie man is right wing extremists. Otherwise Obama would have repealed the Patriot act and restored your constitutional rights with no excuses. It's time to grow up and be real patriots. Murderers and bigots are simply that and cannot be used to take away your rights and liberties no matter what wing (right or left) these nuts claim to be. Remember Obama and Clinton before him are not the good guys who have come to save you from those bad Republicans but simply the same controllers wearing different masks.

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Bondage Sadists Love Suffering.
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Posted by: melpol on Jun 9, 2009 6:15 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is nothing as plentiful as unwanted children. There are countless urchins in third world countries begging for crumbs. Fortunately in the United States most unwanted pregnancies are aborted and children do not have to beg. But there are Bondage Sadists at work. They enjoy watching a pregnant woman suffer with an unwanted fetus. None offer to share the burden. Where were they when women were terminating their pregnancy with the wire from a coat hanger? They were silently enjoying it. Bondage Sadists have now awakened because the pain of an abortion is gone. They are now busy praying for the days of the wire coat hanger to return.

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Once More, Lets End Terrorism Rhetoric
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Posted by: Casadh on Jun 10, 2009 11:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Please, if you read this, consider this, and discourage the usage of the word "terrorism" in our language. It is a word that demonizes crimes and shifts position according to who is in power and who isn't. If we honestly believe in fairness, we *cannot* only believe in it when we *aren't* in power.

Now that the right-wing are shifting out of power, those of us on the left need to avoid repeating the injustices by the right. They called us left-wingers as traitors, terrorist-sympathizers,and guilty of treason. They loved to call animal rights and environmentalists as "eco-terrorists" (despite that neither have killed people).

Now that the right is falling out of favor, let us NOT treat crimes differently based on the ideological beliefs the individual had.

Murder is murder.

The fact that the murder was done over the issue of abortion does NOT make the murder an act of terrorism.

Let us end the usage of the rhetoric of terrorism. Not only should we object to its usage by our political opponents, but we must also object to its usage by ourselves.

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