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Piecing Together the Murder of Dr. George Tiller: Right-Wing Violence Rears Its Head

By AlterNet Staff, AlterNet. Posted June 1, 2009.


Tiller was the target of vicious on-air attacks by Bill O'Reilly. Could the murderer have been inspired by O'Reilly's rants?

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Dr. George Tiller, one of the few OB-GYNs in the country who performed late-term abortions despite ongoing threats to his safety, was fatally shot yesterday while attending a church service in Wichita, Kan. Scott Roeder, 51, has been detained for questioning.

Roeder -- a registered Republican previously arrested for having bomb materials in his car -- posted this chilling message on an Operation Rescue Web site called Charge Tiller in 2007 (via the Daily Kos):

It seems as though what is happening in Kansas could be compared to the "lawlessness" which is spoken of in the Bible. Tiller is the concentration camp "Mengele" of our day and needs to be stopped before he and those who protect him bring judgement upon our nation.

Tiller had long faced the threat of right-wing violence. The Tiller Women’s Health Clinic clinic was bombed in 1985; in 1993, Tiller was shot in both arms by abortion protester Rachelle Shannon. The heavily fortified clinic was guarded by a private security team, and Tiller relied on a bodyguard outside of work.

Recently, Tiller had aired concerns about his safety to federal investigators. The Associated Press reports:

[Tiller's Attorney Dan] Monnat said Tiller had asked federal prosecutors to step up investigations of vandalism and other threats against the clinic out of fear that the incidents were increasing and that Tiller's safety was in jeopardy. [Wichita Deputy Police Chief Tom] Stolz, however, said police knew of no threats connected to the shooting.

In early May, Tiller had asked the FBI to investigate vandalism at his clinic, including cut wires to surveillance cameras and damage to the roof that sent rainwater pouring into the building.

Tiller had also long been the target of vicious attacks by conservative pundits like Bill O'Reilly, who often denounced Tiller on his show. Brad Reed writes on Brad Blog following Tiller's acquittal in March on charges that he had broken a Kansas abortion law:

O'Reilly continued his series of programs focusing on the Kansas physician, charging him with "operating a death mill" (video here), and alleging that he was "executing babies" (video here).

O'Reilly had previously been highly critical of the state's Gov. Kathleen Sebelius, charging, during his "Talking Points" commentary in 2007, that she was "allowing [Tiller] to continue the slaughter."

Writing for Salon, Gabriel Winant argues that O'Reilly's vicious slander of Tiller may well have served as a provocation for the shooting. Although O'Reilly certainly did not instruct his listeners to commit violence:

... there's no other person who bears as much responsibility for the characterization of Tiller as a savage on the loose, killing babies willy-nilly thanks to the collusion of would-be sophisticated cultural elites, a bought-and-paid-for governor and scofflaw secular journalists. Tiller's name first appeared on The Factor on Feb. 25, 2005. Since then, O'Reilly and his guest hosts have brought up the doctor on 28 more episodes, including as recently as April 27 of this year. Almost invariably, Tiller is described as "Tiller the Baby Killer."


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View:
Randall Terry's God Squad let loose to assasinate by FBI/DHS
Posted by: Silverhawk on Jun 1, 2009 12:21 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why isn't Randall Terry in jail? The DHS/FBI even have CIA personnel all over in the larger US cities via Joint Terrorism Task Forces and yet Randall Terry's assassins roam free as the wind to hit doctors anytime they feel like it with no oversight. The Fusion centers that spy on peacenicks and Ron Paul supporters don't care one iota about Randall Terry the terrorist leader in the US. The security forces in the US don't work for the people of the US, they're only used for the corporate dominance of the populace. Why should DHS care if Randall Terry assassinates doctors when they only care if Senator Edward Kennedy is on the no fly list along with other law abiding American citizens. The DHS needs a house cleaning now!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Terry's only concern: His rhetoric will be pressured down
Posted by: Silverhawk on Jun 1, 2009 12:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
CNN has a post of Randall Terry's take on Dr Tiller's assassination. Terry calls Dr Tiller a mass murderer. Terry goes on to say that he regrets that in effect, Dr Tiller didn't have time for God to cleanse his sins. Then Terry said that his only concern was that his rhetoric will be pressured to tone down thus loosing it's effectiveness. It's effectiveness to incite assassinations? These are the words of the person inciting his God Squad "assassins" to carry out assassinating US doctors engaged in legal medical procedures, procedures that are sought after so that women will not bleed to death from "back alley abortions". Abortion will never end - ever. It will only go underground if necessary with news to follow the deaths that will occur to full grown women if Roe is overturned.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The right doth protest too much, methinks.
Posted by: jpp on Jun 1, 2009 1:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you look at the invective posted by some of the right to twitter when they think only their people are listening you get an idea of the sort of hatred that the anti-choice noise machine has created.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Pro-Life? Posted by: BlueTigress
» RE: Pro-Life? Posted by: Quannah
Oscar Meyer
Posted by: drsivana99 on Jun 1, 2009 2:01 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And as per usual O'Reilly doesn't know jack shit. Why is he allowed to be whatever the hell he is? He isn't a journalist. He's not much of an entertainer. ???
Anyway, his knowledge of history is breathtaking in its non-existence. Actually, in Hitler's Germany abortion was highly illegal-- a capital crime, I think. If you were an Aryan, of course, whatever the hell that word actually means, if anything. Maybe O'Reilly is one of those. That's how come he is so superior to everyone else in the whole entire world that he can give "news" "broadcasts" without bothering to find out what the hell he's talking about. Such omniscience is stunning, and a trait he shares with a certain former head (job) of state who never bothered to read or study anything, and whom I doubt ever figured out how to wipe his own ass.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Oscar Meyer Posted by: surfreality
» RE: Oscar Meyer Posted by: medusa
» RE: Oscar Meyer Posted by: marletat
» Not so much Posted by: BlueTigress
» RE: Oscar Meyer-Supremely Ironic- Posted by: dragonlady620
» RE: Oscar Meyer-Supremely Ironic- Posted by: Silverhawk
» RE: Oscar Meyer Posted by: jumpr
» RE: Oscar Meyer Posted by: squeaken
Yes, I Can Read
Posted by: SwampFox-82nd on Jun 1, 2009 2:26 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You want me make nice-nice with these scum? Want me to be respectful to these vermin? How 'bout start practicing what you preach. I am too angry for making nice-nice with those cowards.

Ain't "Freedom from Truth" swell?

Airborne All The Way... SwampFox-82nd, I was trained to shoot back -- and them???

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» RE: Yes, I Can Read Posted by: slowbob4
» RE: Yes, I Can Read Posted by: Ghoulman
In The Name of Our Precious Lord?
Posted by: RICHARD RALPH ROEHL on Jun 1, 2009 3:46 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
According to some hard core religious preacher pundits on talk hate radio, Dr. Tiller was murdered in "the name of our precious lord," Jeeeeeeeeezass!

These radio wackos are the same KKKristian folks who recently claimed that bee-ewe-tee-fool "Zionist war planes had to kill the evil Palestinian children in Gaza" to maintain world peace.

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The REAL Culprit
Posted by: jmmartin on Jun 1, 2009 4:00 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Your blaming O'Really is misplaced. Few intelligent people put any stock in anything O'Really has to say. He is a buffoon and a clown and it is obvious to anyone with a 6th grade education. To my mind, the real culprit, the person most culpable for inspiring most anti-OBGY violence is none other than Randall Terry. You point out that the suspected murderer of Dr. Tiller posted a "chilling" message at the website for Operation Rescue. Well, who do you think founded that organization.

The web site has a "Tiller Watch." The very name, "operation," suggests militancy and crypto-terrorist intentions and beliefs. They've made Dr. Tiller the embodiment of all their hatred for freedom of choice. Whereas Bill O'Really is just a goofball entertainer with a penchat for childish temper tantrums, Randall Terry is a murderous hate monger who exhorts his followers to take the law into their own hands, casting abortionists as holocaustic madmen who exterminate innocent children. Lay the blame where it is due.

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» RE: The REAL Culprit Posted by: hagwind
» RICO Act Posted by: hardwroc
"Faithful Servants" To Whom?
Posted by: Purple Girl on Jun 1, 2009 4:40 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Been Here Done this Before- Clinic Bombings,MD Assasinations and their Grand Terrorist Attack at the Atlanta Olympics.
O'Reilly Knows he is playing with fire since these type of murderous terrorist attacks have happened in the past- Ignorance can not be claimed as a Defense.
Spending 4 yrs accusing and verbally assualting a person, who is ultimately murdered constitutes an intention to incite violence.BillO is Culpable in 1st Degree Murder.Was this man attempting to appease and please BillO?
as for these so Called 'Faithfuls' they have no Faith in God, nor respect God's Will. Pray Tell Holely Rollers-Why does the Almighty require your assistance to punishing a 'sinner'? Why do you feel compelled to supercede His decisions- Isn't it true if God was angered by this MD's actions He could easily kill him Himself? Then Damn him to Hellfor Eternity as a 'sinner'. Perhaps God was not angered. Or perhaps God was using him as a test for others who might be compelled to 'sin'or for some other purpose. How is it YOU are suddenly the Decider of Fate and Judgement, when to take a life Because YOU have judge it 'sinful'? Hasn't this murderer of Tiller, not only committed the Same Deadly Sin- but worse, by usurping and seizing the Powers of God?
This murderer took a life not only Granted by birth (since God performs his own Abortions- miscarriages and still births), but also health and even possibly Divine intervention (spared after previous attacks).
You do not know Gods Grand Design, understand the reasons for HIS Decisions over Life & Death. Perhaps this MD would have been the slayer of the AntiChrist before he was able to exit the Womb to Ultimatley Deceive and Enslave Mankind,Destroy God's Green Earth!
Oh yea of Little Faith- or Reverence or Respect! And what Entity is legendary for such Arrogance,and interloping? "Could It Be Satan?"
Are the murderous anti abortionist sure it is not them 'who knows not what they do'?

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Just another phony example of the reichwingers mantra....
Posted by: xvictor on Jun 1, 2009 5:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...."life is precious".

hehehehehehehe

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- - - - Bill O Riley is a cult leader
Posted by: Anthhh on Jun 1, 2009 5:20 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Along with the rest of the R-W TV,RADIO SHOWS ORiley co-leads a cult of homocidal flagdraped sicko's who are ready to snap.

-They sit in front of their tv's wearing American flags around their shoulders

-Fertile ground for the implanting of murderous capability, ie. They don't know too much, but deeeeep inside they know one thing: ..that they have no life. That they will never have a life

- They think they would like to make some kind of stand before they croak...even if the only stand available is in the form of hate

-They will settle for that. It serves a dual purpose ..
..#1 Of concentrating all the bad energy (guilt from awareness of being loser)that they have building up inside towards a 'useful' purpose..
..#2 they are happy when their leaders like ORiley help and support them feel bigger than their target by feeding their capacity for hate and YES .>EVEN ACTUAL VIOLENCE
Even actual violence.

__________________________

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Abortion: the only time the right DOESN'T blame the woman
Posted by: Cory.Goodman on Jun 1, 2009 5:31 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rape? she was probably acting slutty
Divorce? you know how women are...
Him cheating? She probably couldn't satisfy him
Spousal abuse? she provoked him

Abortion? THE DOCTOR DID IT!!

How desperate they are to absolve women from the choice they make to willfully walk into the clinic. It's not like the doctor was on infomercials or street corners convincing women to get pregnant and have abortions.

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» Don't kid yourself... Posted by: Curio
"Pro-Life"??
Posted by: dragonlady620 on Jun 1, 2009 5:41 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These terrorists condone capital punishment, approve of war and commit murder and mayhem and they call themselves pro-life? How many have ever applied any of their efforts to improving the lot of the children they insist they are saving? How many campaign for better health care, education, or services for parents (such as child care or job training)? How many have shown one iota of interest in the children after they are born? Do they ever consider that improving their lot would drastically reduce abortions? OR that the right to choose is not only a personal but a religious decision and therefore protected by the Constitution?
The are NOT pro-life-they HATE life.

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» RIGHT ON!!! Posted by: zooeyhall
» RE: IGHT ON!!! Posted by: dragonlady620
» RE: IGHT ON!!! Posted by: phatkhat
» RE: RIGHT ON!!! Posted by: LaurelAnn
» RE: "Pro-Life"?? Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: "Pro-Life"?? Posted by: songbird1268
» PRO-LOONIES Posted by: Anthhh
Roeder, Rader, there's a lot of them in Kansass
Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN on Jun 1, 2009 5:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Did THIS one WANT it to happen??~~

"[Wichita Deputy Police Chief Tom] Stolz, however, said police knew of no threats connected to the shooting."

They're crazy kansans, including this type.
Did this guy and his gangsters want to NOT "find" any threats??

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One thing is clear...
Posted by: leafsong1 on Jun 1, 2009 6:04 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...the American people will never be free as long as Bill O'Reilly continues to live and breathe.

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"I believe in the right to life"
Posted by: zooeyhall on Jun 1, 2009 6:24 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"..and I'll fuckin' KILL any bastard who doesn't!"

And...Mr O'Reilly...you bear DIRECT responsibility for what happened!

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THESE RIGHT-WING, PSEUDO "RELIGIOUS"...
Posted by: AZLBRAX08 on Jun 1, 2009 6:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...scumbag stormtroopers aren't "pro-life".

What they REALLY are is ANTI-CHOICE!!!

Especially for women.

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Anti-choice = forced motherhood
Posted by: Ms. DuFontagne on Jun 1, 2009 6:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's start framing debates, too. Start interchanging the expression "The forced motherhood crowd" with "the anti-choice crowd."

This will have the forced-motherhood crowd's desired effect on future would-be abortion service providers. Sometimes I wonder if the Christian Taliban will succeed after all.

Meanwhile, get active! Our side, of course, does not like to take up arms and start shooting down our enemies in their churches, but here's something we can do. Give as generously as you can afford to organizations like Planned Parenthood. And here's another good one:

National Network of Abortion Funds - see nnaf.org.

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Boycott the Sponsors of OReilly
Posted by: upstartgreen on Jun 1, 2009 6:46 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Contact the sponsors oif Bill Oreilly"s show and tell them you won't purchase their products while they continue to sponsor this idiot.

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» List of sponsors Posted by: Tombo
Why isn't this being treated as domestic terrorism?
Posted by: smackley on Jun 1, 2009 6:58 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This was clearly a terrorist attack on U.S. soil. All supporters of this terrorist group should be detained. Their financial supporters should have their funds frozen. Their travel should be limited. Why won't this happen? Because the terrorists are white faux christians?

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Can Anyone Explain-
Posted by: dragonlady620 on Jun 1, 2009 7:09 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
-just what the difference is between Operation Rescue and any other terrorist operation?

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» RE: Can Anyone Explain- Posted by: Crazy H
So much for "a right-to-life"
Posted by: sausage on Jun 1, 2009 7:17 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can't recall how many reactionary wing nuts, of the fundamentalist Christian variety, I've talked to over the years who say they, their love of fetuses is so great they'd do anything to stop an abortion, up to and including murder; yet fully support the concept of state-sponsored murder, the death penalty. I am certain Dr. Tiller's killer, Mr. Roeder, falls into this category.

To my way of thinking that attitude is hypocritical as well as stupid. Abortion, after all, in this country and most other "enlightened," industrialized societies (China perhaps being the exception,) is elective surgery. I know of no instance of any girl or woman in this country being forced into having an abortion against her will.

However many liberals also take an equally hypocrisy and stupid position in regard to children which, I think, fuels the rage of the reactionary right.

Let's us consider the case of 13-year-old Hodgkin's lymphoma patient Daniel Hauser and his mother Colleen. I guess the poor little bastard couldn't take anymore puking and hair loss from his chemotherapy so it was off to Mexico for some herbal enemas while U.S. authorities spend a bazillion bucks trying to drag the little s.o.b. and his goofy mom back to Minnesota.

I discussed this case with my attorney buddy the other day. My position being that the authorities of the Minnesota county where the apparently fundamentalist Christian Hausers farmstead really should not have wasted taxpayer dollars fetching young Mr. Hauser and his mother home. If Maw and Paw Hauser wanted to withhold modern medical treatment from young Daniel and he subsequently died, so what?

My lawyer buddy, who is a stereotypical "bleeding-heart" liberal, took exception to this, saying that it is in the interest of the state to protect the life of the child and preserve the family.

Ah! that's the conundrum!

Think about this like a reactionary pinhead, not like a weepy, bleeding heart liberal:If, on the one hand, the state has the duty to protect and preserve the life of the "born" child then it should follow, as least in the logic of reaction, that the state has the duty to protect and preserve the life of the "unborn" child. Therefore, abortion should be illegal.

It's flawed logic and the concept of the "unborn," "life" beginning at the moment of conception, does not have any foundation in the fundamentalists' holy book of fable, fantasy and fear. Yet what I think particularly sticks in fundy craws is their perception that the modern "bleeding heart" state has taken away their right to follow Proverbs 23:13,"Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.and 23:14,Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell."

So I say, back off, bleeding hearts! If fundy Christians want beat their kids, shun vaccination and give their kids laetrile and coffee enemas to treat cancer, let them.

Then, as the graveyards fill with fundy progeny, women who want legal abortions and the doctors who provide them might be left in peace.

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» RE: Children are not fetus Posted by: MeyravLevine
» Nice try Posted by: BlueTigress
» Perhaps you're right Posted by: sausage
Wingnut hypocrisy at its finest
Posted by: Crazy H on Jun 1, 2009 7:24 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Okay, so we can't agree on whether a fetus is a human being ... we *can* agree that a 67 year old doctor is a human being.

So - wingnuts, if you have the right to decide who lives and who dies, then we do too.

Therefore, even if a fetus *is* a human being, then we have a right to decide whether it lives or dies, don't we?

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The Game is Afoot, Watson!
Posted by: mivince79 on Jun 1, 2009 7:46 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So said Sherlock Holmes to the faithful Dr. Watson. The game is afoot, indeed. The terror has now taken palbable form. And I fear for the future of our democratic republic. I fear because I know that in both Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany, neither of these totalitarian parties ever represented a majority. They bullied and bluffed their way into power. They were masters of terror and intimidation.And yet--the mainstream media still defers to them, still treats them as though they were the vast majority in our political system. The MSM refuses to challenges these fanatical anti-abortionists, these modern day equivalents of the "Flagellants" of Bubonic Plague fame. These Medeival fanatics paraded through town and village during the plague, whipping their own bare flesh in order to appease an angry god and make the plague go away. Along the way, they murdered Jews just for good luck. Now their heirs have been "outed." It's not a pretty picture, is it? My wish for them, clergyman and laity alike is that they take their angry god and go straight to hell! To the barricades, my fellow citizens. The first amendment "wall" is under severe pressure. And it will fall if we do not dare to speak up, to act.

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Mr
Posted by: EddDoerr on Jun 1, 2009 8:03 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The assassination of Dr Tiller was not only an attack on a conscientious physician who served the reproductive health care needs of countless women but also an attack on the rights, health and lives of all women who might have problem pregnancies and an attempt to intimidate all health care providers who get in the way of the ideology of patriarchalist fundamentalists.

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» RE: Mr Posted by: Aquinas
Lock your house of worship. Orilly is competing for market share.
Posted by: godsbreath64 on Jun 1, 2009 8:16 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The louse can't capitalize close to substantive market share without piquing white men into CHURCHES to take life and peace.

What an ugly, shameful, achievement.

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HATE SPEECH
Posted by: Birdland on Jun 1, 2009 8:25 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hate speech is not protected as freedom of speech. How does FOX allow the hate to spew out of the mouths of people like O'Reilly and other FOX employees? Shouldn't they be taken off the air for promoting hate, murder, and violence? Write to the FCC and your reps in DC and complain that FOX is permitting hate speech on public airwaves. This cannot continue.

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» RE: HATE SPEECH Posted by: billslm
» RE: HATE SPEECH Posted by: squeaken
this makes AETA seem especially trite....
Posted by: ismac76 on Jun 1, 2009 8:30 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's sickeningly ironic that the SHAC 7 still face charges and the four people from the Bay area charged with the animal enterprise terrorism act(AETA)when they only agitated for public shame around vivisection and they're all in jail and/ or facing charges. Meanwhile this same shit is going on with operation rescue and o'reilly, coulter, limbaugh and these other scumbags who are literally fucking people in the head with they're anarcho-capitalist/ psuedo morality and they're highly paid to do it. And to boot people have died from what they sanctimoniously push... Is that the dichotomy of morality in this country: get paid to do something and it must be OK. Just another symptom of systemic failure of our hypocritical and fully compromised legal structure. Aren't you ready to reboot yet?

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Maybe I missed it, but
Posted by: willymack on Jun 1, 2009 8:37 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I didn't read anything about a thorough psychological evaluation of this nut when he was arrested with bomb making materials. This, by rights, should've taken place. Then, instead of murdering someone he would've been in an institution getting much-needed mental care.

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Yes they most certainly should be held accountable....
Posted by: LTBROWN on Jun 1, 2009 8:46 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Murder is murder. Bill-O and his cohorts always bait these scatter brained zombies, that they call viewers and listeners. Then they sit back and watch them do the dirty work and take the fall for it. Bill-O and Fix news are accessories to, not only Dr. Tiller but also the nuts, a few months back. Indict them now. MURDER IS MURDER! They don't get to dictate which is the exception. Besides, an embryo isn't a human but this doctor, certainly was.
Off topic: NO MAN IS GOING TO LEGISLATE MY BODY! LADIES I GUESS IT WON'T BE BRAS WE BURN THIS REVOLUTION. LOL

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Army of God calls the murderer an "American hero"
Posted by: Defenestrator on Jun 1, 2009 8:59 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
link

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Giving Sadists A Chance
Posted by: melpol on Jun 1, 2009 9:29 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are many sadists that go undetected among us. They are constantly on the search for legitimate expressions of their perversion. The sadist that killed Doctor Tiller was one of them. He was able to do it under the cloak of compassion. It was thought that he was a man concerned with the wrongfulness of late term abortions and the mother. But it will be discovered he never donated a dime to help mothers with their unwanted pregnancies. He was just a monster in disguise.

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carole
Posted by: bklyn on Jun 1, 2009 9:46 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is interesting to me how those who believe God is the supreme being take the position of God, determining who should live and die. Isn't that God's job?

Also, women are not forced into having abortions; it's a matter of choice. So why is the doctor, who performs a medical service at the request of the woman choosing to end her pregnancy, responsible?

As far as Bill O'Reilly is concerned ... he is a hate monger who feeds off the fanaticism of other hate mongers; he is a coward who hides behind a microphone because without it, he is powerless!

Everything he says is designed to get the adrenaline pumping and boost his ratings. It's all for show. It's just a shame that some are being fueled by his fire and take it a step further than words.

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» RE: carole Posted by: 4naught
» RE: carole Posted by: Malamute
» RE: carole Posted by: Cathyblj
Justice For Dr. Tiller?
Posted by: KeplerView on Jun 1, 2009 9:48 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am of mixed emotions about the killing of Dr. Tiller as I do believe women have the right to choose, but waiting until a baby is viable is too much for me.
There are few Doctors who will kill a baby after the first trimester, because they understand that these children can and do feel pain, and just look at premature babies who can and do survive and are the same number of weeks old, as the ones Dr. Tiller was killing.
It is too bad the Justice system did not work to put this murderer behind bars. I have read that people were offended that someone would kill him in a house of peace, but he should never have been in Church, as he obviously was against everything that Christ stood for. He shall know how wrong he was for eternity now. A killer is no longer allowed to do his work. I know many people disagree with this, but that is the way of the world. He killed for profit and has reaped his reward of death and damnation. I know I sound harsh, but I have had to make life choices and have to live with them as well. My girlfriend was raped and we aborted that child, and had to abort one other child, because of our life circumstances at the time, and we have to live with those two deaths forvever, so it is not that I am right to lifer, nor a Christian, but I can see when there is evil in the world and Tiller was evil, just as I am, and we'll still be judged, whether we believe or not, on our actions throughout our lives.

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» You misunderstand Posted by: BlueTigress
» please go away Posted by: Shey
» RE: Justice For Dr. Tiller? Posted by: morticia
» RE: Justice For Dr. Tiller? Posted by: KeplerView
» RE: Justice For Dr. Tiller? Posted by: crashgrab
» Legal..... Posted by: morticia
» Bullshit Posted by: Shey
» RE: Bullshit Posted by: KeplerView
» RE: Justice For Dr. Tiller? Posted by: Quannah
Michael Savage Hate Talker
Posted by: zepher on Jun 1, 2009 9:57 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's not forget Michael Savage. He is as hateful as all the right wing talk show people put together. His mantras of hate are hypnotic to some people.

Fact is, progressive talk show hosts are being threatened with death by the automatons produced by hate talk. Today, right now. Sometimes it isn't ok to have free speech available to all when it can harm someone, i.e. kill someone. We are faced with somehow stopping cultism and hypnotic preying on the easiest emotions to enflame - hate and rage. And keeping within the Constitution. Lots of work to be done.

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Whose religion/church decides my rights?
Posted by: keystone999 on Jun 1, 2009 10:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Are these religious people who kill doctors or seek to force women to have children - even ones who will be born terminally ill and suffering? A child who is simply premature can cost a family $20,000.+ per week in neonatal expenses. How are families to cope with the expense of a terminally ill or compromised child? How long before these Forced Pregnancy Activists realize that any "all-powerful" God could change someone's heart or mind or could heal all ills with a mere thought. These people are as crazy as their belief system!

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Right Now, The Lord Is Being Kind of A Dick
Posted by: rgoalierob on Jun 1, 2009 10:56 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Another reason to avoid church.

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THE MYSTERY THAT IS KANSAS
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jun 1, 2009 12:06 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If Dr. Tiller was violating the law on a regular basis, why didn't they arrest him, prove it and throw him in jail ? Instead, he was allowed to continue his practice until someone else decidied how justice should be dispensed. Seems to me that the State of Kansas left to poor guy out there fully aware that everyday his life was on the line. That's pretty sloppy law enforcement and a strange way to eliminate what they saw as a problem. Let some nut do the job for them. Right or wrong no one gets to murder him. Thanks, ANNA

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DHS Extremism Lexicon
Posted by: Juven on Jun 1, 2009 12:22 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ever since that came out, it has made anyone who believes anything different from the so called mainstream, whether it be an issue on the left or right, a possible extremist and of course that leads us into that linguistic framing the government loves so much to throw around--the word "terrorist."

We are at last equal here in the land of the free--all capable of being called terroists and of all having words and ideas censored in order to prevent those who would use the justification of those words and ideas as an excuse to commit murder.

Watch out--once they censor due to the actions of people like this guy, it is only a matter of time before everyone is censored for any possible future action and since Obama approves of prolonged detention (new name for what Bush had set up) for anyone even thought of as being a potential future "criminal", it appears as though Winston Smith will still have a job erasing the past and all the ideas associated with it.

BTW these "Christians" who approve of killing doctors (!) are the reason I have nothing to do with that "faith", but I would still beware of censoring anyone--it cannot lead to anything better, that is for sure.

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Was Tiller Really That Beneficial?
Posted by: nobyjingo on Jun 1, 2009 12:49 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What I've read since Dr. Tiller's death is that Dr. Tiller charged $5,000. for an abortion and only did late-term abortions, instead of early abortions; apparently late-term abortions were more profitable; therefore a large percentage of women would not have the means to have a Dr. Tiller early abortion, only the women who could come up with $5,000, since unnecessary abortions aren't covered under insurance to my knowledge.

Dr. Tiller was doing dangerous work killing children just before they were born for money and suffered collateral damage from his dangerous work. I am sure his family and friends will miss him, but his benefit to society was nil.

O'Reiley is conservative pond scum, but IMHO, this Dr. Tiller was pond scum as well, acting like a follower of Jesus.

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The right wingnuts
Posted by: realveive on Jun 1, 2009 1:18 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
aren't the only ones who can declare open season. Here's a great opening day target list;

OReilly
Limbaugh
Hannity
Savage
Beck

Good hunting

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» RE: The right wingnuts Posted by: KeplerView
» RE: The right wingnuts Posted by: dealemslim
Outrageous
Posted by: Archie1954 on Jun 1, 2009 1:24 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The death of Doctor Tilling is an outrage that should have never happened. Why did it occur? How could doing something differently have prevented it? First the abortion of third trimester fetuses is a very problematic matter as these entities may be viable outside the womb (I understand that the major criticism of the doctor is that he performed third trimester abortions). A strong argument can be made that such abortions might (not would)result in what we understand as murder. When a fetus is totally dependant on its host than aborting it cannot be understood as murder because it would not be viable if disconnected from its womb. That's why the rules for abortion should be tightened to provide a clear protocol for the procedure, one that does not run afoul of potential life outside the womb.

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» Look up Kansas abortion law Posted by: Defenestrator
Late Term Abortion?
Posted by: Ayla87 on Jun 1, 2009 1:45 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's after the 20th week correct? Isn't the Age of viability 24 weeks, meaning many of these babies would've survived outside the womb had they been given the chance?

And what's the reason many of these women cite for LT abortions? Oh, right, they didn't know they were pregnant

Excuse me if I don't shed a tear.

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» RE: Late Term Abortion? Posted by: aichbe
A little violence
Posted by: jaylindberg@hotmail.com on Jun 1, 2009 2:19 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A Little violence cuts through the legal BS. That lesson came through loud and clear. So what have we learned?

IF you are not willing to fight dirty and go for the throat, they will continue to slit yours. The only way to deal with these types of people is to kill them. If you don't have the stomach for it, stay out of the fight.

A little quote from my book. The more I learn about the government, the more I appreciate the French Revolution. That is what it will take to clean up this puppet show we call government.

(If we don't clean it up, this species will probably die in a radioactive waste cloud this government created.)


Jay Lindberg

Author of Drug War Economics

Send me an email address and I will send you a copy of it as a PDF file for free.

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- - -ABORTION MUST BE HIDDEN
Posted by: Anthhh on Jun 1, 2009 2:45 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
- - RABBITS Eat Their Unwanted Offspring..!

MY RABBIT HAD BABIES AND ATE THEM

So I found out that they do this for several reasons

- first of all rabbits can't avoid mating because they are natural, healthy, animals..just like PEOPLE ARE.

-When a rabbit who cant for whatever reason (..immaturity, insecurity, incompetence..to name a few), gives birth, she eats them alive.

BUT WHY EAT THEM? Not for nutrition, but for the instinct to hide it. hide it from self and others. Do away with it all. it's just stuff. stuff no other bunnies wants to, or should have to, deal with. weather it's their business or not.


Anti-choice fanatics are SELFISH and just dont want to SEE any one's freaking abortions.

The inconsistency that they are pro-war and against everything else that lives..tells us that this is true.

-They dont want to know this thing exists in the world they live in.
-They dont want it in their face.

-They would like it if dimwitted pregnant girls ran away in the woods ..and hid all the stuff
.......like the rabbit ..!

phenomena solved

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They're killing our people, so...
Posted by: aichbe on Jun 1, 2009 3:40 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...maybe our people should be dealing with them the same way. Wait, that would make US Republicans. Never mind...

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Keep It In Perspective
Posted by: mikeblack on Jun 1, 2009 4:14 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I know 2009 is the year of "Let's blame all of society's ills on Limbaugh/O'Reilly/Beck/Savage/Hannity"
But they weren't the ones stalking Dr. Tiller, it was Randal Terry and his thugs.

I know having a famous right wing pundit's name in the headline gets more clicks than if the story was "Operation Rescue Rears Its Ugly Head", which would leave most people going "What, is that some kind of pet rescue organization?" But tossing out big-names you don't happen to like to increased web traffic, who had absolutely no link in this is high irresponsible journalism. Let's make those who stalk, harass and threaten abortion providers daily the focus of our energy.

Instead of trying to tie television and radio hosts to this, let's press our government to enforce the 1993 law that gives better security to abortion providers and limits access of anti-abortion activists to their clinics and homes. It is a law that went practically ignored over the years, spend your energy trying to press your congress-person to focus on it.

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» RE: Keep It In Perspective Posted by: Bibsisis
Conservatives don't have a monopoly on politically motivated violence.
Posted by: Honky the Nihilist VI on Jun 1, 2009 4:18 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
janet marsh
Posted by: kennybent on Jun 1, 2009 4:49 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Aren't all you people glad that your Mother was pro- life and not
pro abortion? C'mon, be honest. If she was pro choice, you probably
would not be here.

I am against murder of all kind. Even abortionists. God does work in mysterious ways though, doesn't He?
When an abortionist gets murdered, he does not get a chance to repent and tell Our Lord how sorry he/she were. janet

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» RE: janet marsh Posted by: crashgrab
» RE: janet marsh Posted by: morticia
» Furthermore.... Posted by: morticia
» RE: janet marsh Posted by: Quannah
» RE: janet marsh Posted by: Bibsisis
» RE: janet marsh Posted by: dealemslim
Here's a solution!
Posted by: weslen1 on Jun 1, 2009 5:56 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Chemical CASTRATION for ALL MEN, from 16 to 80 unless they SIGN A CONTRACT to be 50 percent responsible for any children they may FATHER, from BEING THERE, TO FINANCIALLY!
If the MEN can't get any woman PREGNANT they will NOT have to worry about what she does with her BODY other than being an incubator for some GUYS progeny.
I'm really SICK of all these "men" who scream "no abortion" but abandon the baby soon as it's born or denies it's his at all. So let's put the burdon where it belongs. NO PREGNANCY NO ABORTION! Bet those "Pro-Life/Nuke em all for JESUS freaks will change their mind some kind of FAST.

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» RE: Here's a solution! Posted by: Bibsisis
» RE: Here's a solution! Posted by: dealemslim
In the mode of Johnathan Swift - A Modest Suggestion
Posted by: The Cynical Skeptic on Jun 1, 2009 6:03 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Since the dim, dumb, delusional and "devotional" are convinced that:

1 Life begins at the moment of conception,and

2 Overwhelmingly, conceptions occur in the Fallopian tube, and

3 Often (who knows with what frequency) the fertilized ovum (zygote) fails to implant itself into the uterine wall, and

4. Is thus "flushed out" in the subsequent menstrual cycle to be absorbed into/onto a tampon or sanitary pad, then

5. The high priests, self appointed shamans and other assorted (sordid) fanatic misanthropes should be preaching to their ovine flocks and bovine herds that every used tampon and used sanitary pad of the sexually active of child bearing age,MUST HAVE A PROPER BURIAL IN HALLOWED GROUND - JUST IN CASE THERE'S A LIFE BABY PRESENT. Anything less than this is indicative of the paucity of their rationality and the nimiety of their absurdity.

If they are not prepared to do this I'd suggest they STFU!

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Terrorists
Posted by: Jeanne on Jun 1, 2009 6:14 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Will the federal government get serious about stopping this terrorist group? Members of this group (right-to-life, anti-choice) have executed people, attempted to murder, bombed buildings, and bombed public places (remember Eric Robert Rudolph?), killing innocent people. I think this is sufficient to deem them a terrorist organization that should be watched closely, and its (their) activities should be monitored by the FBI. They have exceeded free speech. They ought not be free to kill.

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Today, these religious fucktards are using violence to suppress
Posted by: MeyravLevine on Jun 1, 2009 6:32 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
a woman's fundamental right to make a medical choice for herself.

But make no mistake. These neanderthals want to impose total ban on reproductive rights and right to privacy.

If you look at the legal history of Roe v. Wade, it goes back to the issue of using contraception and beyond.

These assholes can't be appeased or reasoned with; they operate under the god delusion.

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There nothing in the Bible against abortion anyway
Posted by: Alenna on Jun 1, 2009 6:45 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Fundamentalists don’t even read their own Bible. There are thousands of "God ordered" killings of babies and children throughout the bible, including pregnant women to be "ripped up". According to Leviticus 27:6 there is no value on fetuses or infants less than one month old. In Numbers 3:14-16 male children less than a month old were not even to be counted. Numbers 5:12-31 looks suspiciously like a "priest induced" abortion. If a woman is suspected of adultery, her husband is to take her to a priest, who will give her dirty water to drink. If she gets sick, she is guilty. Looks suspiciously like an abortion procedure to me.

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How can a non-viable parasite survive outside the female womb?
Posted by: Aposterioriperception on Jun 1, 2009 7:37 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Only in the convoluted crazy idealistic sociopath world of pro-fetus, anti-woman, anti-child, anti-adult world of the psycho doctor killers does labeling abortion as murder even scratch the surface of the level of depravity that these people suffer from.

In a more enlightened society, we would give these lunatics a choice, stay on your pyschotropic medications OR we lobotomize the entire area of your brain that's causing you to act upon the voices you think are commanding you to kill in direct violation of your own decalogue.

Of course, we could never actually force people to be rational in a free society, the ACLU would be forced to defend the rights of these lunatics to be crazy and follow the assassination orders they hear being repeated over & over again by like-minded sociopaths.

Religion has always given people carte blanche to be certifiably crazy and continue to live freely among us, since anti-abortion, anti-freedom types continue to have the full support of "keep the rich rich and the poor ignorant" corporate friendly government, it will be in someone else's lifetime before religion is ever reined in and regulated like any addictive drug usually is, making religion illegal only makes idiots desire it more, let people with their limited abilities to decide which drug they want to place inside their head or bloodstream, the government should regulate these drugs, (yes, religion is a drug, look what it makes some people do to abortion doctors, to each other and to their women/children) and religionista's have the gall to claim that society has no morals, WTF!!

Decalogue hypocrisy notwithstanding, since their god is consistently proven to be powerless to prevent harm or restrict "free will" to only the wise, when will those who claim to be doing "god's work" stop pretending to "play god" tell their god (whichever one out of 15,000+ he/she/it might be) to stop goldbricking and start doing the job these crazy humans claim they're doing on it's behalf?

I'm tired of all these god posers doing their pet deity's "dirty work", and if the religionista's insist on forcing the decalogue into state/federal and other government buildings/memorials, stop playing the "do as I say" crap and follow your own decalogue, if it's mandatory for us to be violated by your pet rules, how come religionista's haven't a clue as to how to actually apply the decalogue to their own inimical hypocrite saturated sociopath infested "lifestyles"?????

Methinks the weeds in their own yard has taken over the entire planet and the religionista's are still complaining about their neighbor's daughter having to many freedoms, like abortion.

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Intent to cause harm
Posted by: mom'z the word on Jun 2, 2009 11:55 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is a crime to incite a riot. It is a crime to yell Fire in a crowded room. The First Amendment does not give anyone the right or permission to cause harm with free speech. If the intent and I must stress the word intent here because that is the necessary element in determining if a crime has been committed, is to do harm, then a crime has been committed.

The First Amendment DOES give us the right to speak our mind. However, that does not mean that there are not consequences to those actions. Speaking is an action. And there is always a reaction to every action.

Use words to tell a lie or defame and that is slander. Use print to tell a lie or defame and that is libel. Free speech does not prevent anyone from telling a lie. Free speech says you can tell all the lies you want however there are consequences for lying and you will pay.

Yelling fire in a crowded room when, in fact there is no fire, is not a free speech issue, it is an intent to cause harm and injury. That is a crime. The words are spoken with the clear intent to cause harm and damage to anyone that hears it. It is a call to action. The speaker is the actor and is responsible for the results of the words spoken.

It is not a crime to yell Fire in a crowded room, if in fact, there is a fire. Again, this is not a free speech thing. This is an intent thing. Yelling fire when there is a fire is telling the truth with the intent of saving lives.


Now ask yourself who is telling the truth? What is the intent? And what was the result?

There are a lot of sick people out there. Murdering someone because you don't believe in murder does not make any sense at all. Using sick unstable people to carry out your own wishes and desires by inciting and playing on their fears and desire to do the right thing is the same as a general ordering his troops to shoot and kill. The general's order is the same as if he himself pulled the trigger on every single round that was fired on his orders.

Again, we are looking at intent. If the general's order was to save the village from murder and mayhem then thank goodness his troops followed the order to shoot. Now the general is a hero. You know the other side of the story.

You can talk all you want, that is why we have the First amendment. However, the First amendment never never gives you the right to do a wrong thing. Lying, slander, libel, intent to incite harm, is wrong. And there are laws to protect the innocent from wrongdoers.

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Was the murder inspired by O'Reilly?
Posted by: BurrDeming on Jun 2, 2009 7:13 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is unknowable. The individual may have been inspired by anything. Anything at all.

Dr. Tiller was killed by idealism. He encountered the most dangerous creature on earth: the man who knows that God is on his side.

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O'Reilly, Terry, Limbaugh, et. al., ARE responsible for...
Posted by: Bibsisis on Jun 2, 2009 8:28 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the assassination of Dr. Tiller with their hate speech, "inciting to riot," in this case, murder, and should be held legally accountable. Free speech does not include this kind of speech. I saw at least ten clips from O'Reilly saying Tiller the baby killer.

What does he say now, about the killer of Tiller? Does he have a new slogan? No, he says he is not responsible for what others do just because he made these broadcasts from Fox (faux noise). This is not FREE speech. This is costly speech.

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They just can't believe there WRONG.
Posted by: osd on Jun 4, 2009 7:56 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So O'Reilly and the Christian Wrong, have got it into there heads that women should be controled at all costs and never given a choice. O'Reilly was angery because Dr. Tiller was robbing the Christian right of future war fodder. Can't have Wars for Profit, if you don't have expendable humans to do the killing and dying for you. How else will the extreme right fill those quotas, so they can kill in the name of God. You don't see them lining up to adopt all the unwanted children that are out there now. Warehouse them, draft them and make them slaves for the Government War Machine. Those that want to rule the world and control everyone on the planet need to always make sure we are afraid of someone or something. There is just TO MUCH MONEY to be made, to walk away from war. I see it from a female point of view. If you don't have a VAGINA, shut up, sit down, you don't have a dog in this hunt.

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dealemslim
Posted by: dealemslim on Jun 7, 2009 12:38 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
you sure are searching for a reason to hate. murderer's kill because they want to. haters hate because they can't stop themselves from hating. get a clue and stop blaming whoever you don't agree with about issues. the hate has to stop somewhere. maybe YOU can start it now?

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cITIZEN (boss)
Posted by: edromar2 on Jun 7, 2009 6:46 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
O'Reilly and all the other stupid dimwits eho egg the Right Wing dunces on are no more guilty of inciting murder than are the rest of us who condone such nonsense by supporting such stupidity by watching it and claiming that License of expression could only be curtailed if it presented imminent threats to some one.Such stupidity can only exist in the morass of nonsense the rest of us have allowqed to exist by misunderstanding our constitution, in this case by confusing freedom of speech with license to incite people by stupidity!

There should be laws requiring all of us who allow such stupidity to wear a dunce cap in public so as to warn people of the stupidity of each stupid sourse of nonsese. So when people say things that are objectively and logically, demonstratively stupid, they should be charged and tried and convicted by a jury of their peer for inciting people to stupidity by telling them things like thsat the 2nd Amendment guarantees the right to have and use personal weapons rather than just military weapons in the line of duty in the "well-regulated militia," or that "a fetus is a person" whose civil rights are protected by our Bill og Rights which specifies that it applies only to people born or naturalized!There is a whole additional cadre of stupid right wing claims for which they should be charged and convicted of stupidy and sentenced to wear dunce hats! Until we sal stop letting them get away with spouting stupidity, we are just as guilty as they are!

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