COMMENTS: 253
Hayden Criticizes MoveOn for being Silent on Wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan; MoveOn Responds
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Editor's note: MoveOn has sent a response to Tom Hayden, which is published below his article.
The most powerful grassroots organization of the peace movement, MoveOn, remains silent as the American wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan simmer or escalate.
The executive director of MoveOn, Justin Ruben, met with President Obama in February, told the president it was “the moment to go big,” then indicated that MoveOn would not be opposing the $94 billion war supplemental request, nor the 21,000 additional troops to Afghanistan, nor the increased civilian casualties from the mounting number of Predator attacks. [See Ari Melber, The Nation, Feb. 27, 2009]
What was MoveOn’s explanation for abandoning the peace movement in a meeting with a president the peace movement was key to electing? According to Ruben and MoveOn, it was the preference of its millions of members, as ascertained by house meetings and polls.
The evidence, however, is otherwise. Last December 17, 48.3 percent of MoveOn members listed “end the war in Iraq” as a 2009 goal, after health care [64.9%], economic recovery and job creation [62.1%], and building a green economy/stop climate change [49.6%, only 1.5% ahove Iraq.] This was at a moment when most Americans believed the Iraq War was ending. Afghanistan and Pakistan were not listed among top goals which members could vote on.
Then on May 22 MoveOn surveyed its members once again, listing ten possible campaigns for the organization. “Keep up the pressure to the end the war in Iraq” was listed ninth among the options.
Again, Afghanistan and Pakistan were not on the MoveOn list of options.
Nor was Guantanamo nor the administration’s torture policies. “Investigate the Bush Administration” was the first option.
MoveOn is supposed to be an Internet version of participatory democracy, but the organization’s decision-making structure apparently assures that the membership is voiceless on the question of these long wars.
What if they included an option like “demanding a diplomatic settlement and opposing a quagmire in Afghanistan and Pakistan?” Or “shifting from a priority on military spending to civilian spending on food, medicine and schools?”
This is no small matter. MoveOn has collected a privately-held list of five million names, most of them strong peace advocates. The organization’s membership contributed an unprecedented $180 million for the federal election cycle in 2004-2006. Those resources, now squelched or sequestered, mean that the most vital organization in the American peace movement is missing in action.
What to do? There is no point raving and ranting against MoveOn. The only path is in organizing a dialogue with the membership, over the Internet, and having faith that their voices will turn the organization to oppose these escalating occupations. The same approach is necessary towards other vital organs of the peace movement including rank-and-file Democrat activists and the post-election Obama organization [Organizing for America], through a persistent bottom-up campaign to renew the peace movement as a powerful force in civil society.
This is not a simple matter of an organizational oligarchy manipulating its membership, although the avoidance by MoveOn’s leadership is a troubling sign. There is genuine confusion over Afghanistan and Pakistan among the rank-and-file. The economic crisis has averted attention away from the battlefront. Many who voted for Obama understandably will give him the benefit of the doubt, for now.
Silence sends a message. The de facto MoveOn support for the $94 billion war supplemental reverberates up the ladder of power. Feeling no pressure, the Congressional leadership has abdicated its critical oversight function over the expanding wars, not even allowing members to vote for a Decmber report on possible exit strategies. In the end, a gutsy sixty voted against HR 2346 on May 14, but many defected to vote for the war spending, including Neil Abercrombie, Jerry Nadler, Obey, Xavier Becerra, Lois Capps, Maurice Hinchey, Jesse Jackson, Sheila Jackson-Lee, Patrick Kennedy, Charles Rangel, Lucille Roybal-Allard, Loretta Sanchez, Rosa De Lauro, Bennie Thompson, Jerry McNerney, Robert Wexler, and Henry Waxman. [Bill Delahunt, Linda Sanchez and Pete Stark were not recorded].
If there were significant pressures from networks like MoveOn in their Congressional districts, the opposition vote might have approached 85.
Appropriations chair David Obey in essence granted Obama a one-year pass to show results in Afghanistan. If the war appears to be a quagmire by then, he claimed, the Democrats will become more critical. Speaker Nancy Pelosi delivered the same message; according to the Washington Examiner on May 6: “There won’t be any more war supplementals, so my message to my members is, this is it.” Pelosi’s words were carefully parsed, saying that the White House would not be allowed another supplemental form of appropriation, which is different from an actual pledge to oppose war funding.
This one-year pass means that the grass-roots peace movement has a few months to light a fire and re-awaken pressure from below on the Congress and president. In the meantime, here are some predictions for the coming year:
IRAQ: Will Obama keep his pledge to withdraw combat forces from Iraq on a 16-month timetable, and all forces by 2011? At this point, the pace is slowing, and the deadline being somewhat extended, under pressure from US commanders on the ground. Sunnis are threatening to resume their insurgency if the al-Maliki regime fails to incorporate them into the political and security structures. The President insists however, that he is only making adjustments to a timetable that is on track. Prognosis: precarious.
AFGHANISTAN: Will the Obama troop escalation deepen the quagmire or be a successful surge against the Taliban by next year? Another 21,000 troops and advisers are on their way to the battlefield. Civilian casualties are mounting, causing the besieged Karzai government to complain. Preventive detention of Afghans will only expand. US deaths, now over 600, are sure to increase this summer. Taliban may hold out and redeploy in order to stretch US forces thin. Prognosis: escalation into quagmire.
PAKISTAN: US policies have driven al Qaeda from Afganistan into Pakistan’s tribal areas, where US is attacking with Predators and turning Pakistan’s US-funded armed forces towards counterinsurgency. Public opinion is being inflamed against the US intervention. Prognosis: an expanding American war in Pakistan with greater threats to American security.
IRAN: With or without US complicity, Israel may attack Iran early next year, with unforeseeable consequences in Iraq and Afghanistan. Prognosis: crisis will intensify.
GLOBAL: US will fail to attract more combat troops to fight in Afghanistan and Pakistan from Europe or elsewhere, causing pressure to increase for a non-military negotiated solution. Prognosis: Obama still popular, US still isolated.
BUDGET PRIORITIES: Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan will deeply threaten the administration’s ability to succeed on the domestic front with stimulus spending, health care, education and alternative energy. Prognosis: false hope for “guns and butter” all over again.
Editor's Note: Here's a response from MoveOn.org:
We appreciate Tom Hayden's attempt to start a discussion here about the progressive posture on security issues, and we even understand his attempt to use MoveOn as a foil. We agree that it's time to confront the organizing challenges of building an effective peace movement in the Obama era, and we expect MoveOn and MoveOn members to play an important role in this.
In order to have a productive conversation, however, we have to make sure the facts are correct. Tom's characterization of our democratic process is inaccurate; the Top 10 issues we focus on were both nominated by and chosen by MoveOn members. Even more erroneous is Tom's description in the lead of his piece of Justin's conversation with the President. Our Executive Director, Justin Ruben, never "indicated that MoveOn would not be opposing the $94 billion war supplemental request, nor the 21,000 additional troops to Afghanistan, nor the increased civilian casualties from the mounting number of Predator attacks." The article by Ari Melber which Tom referenced as a source does not say that Justin said this. That particular conversation was about MoveOn members' current organizing focus on energy, health care, and the economy. And our belief that the administration should "go big" on progressive policies in these arenas.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: DrBrian on May 27, 2009 12:29 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» I agree...except it is not all the progressive community, just the Democratic party zombies.
Posted by: Quist
» RE: Becoming Neocons
Posted by: shellius
» RE: MoveOn is not completely abandoning the anti-war war stance
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Rubin, is he related to the Rubin who was Clintons treasurer?
Posted by: Prophit
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Quist on May 27, 2009 1:01 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Afgan War is the Dems/Obama's War which equals "good war".
Iraq War was the Repubs/Bush's War which equals "bad war".
As long as people keep blindly subscribing to a political party, they will blindly support their terrible policies...at least for the most part. BTW, this one of many reasons why I do not subscribe to one party or political group.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Blindly subscribe to a political party
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Move On is still an apologist group for the Democratic party...so what would you expect?
Posted by: erjoell
Comments are closed-
Posted by: KQuark on May 27, 2009 1:03 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You forget Moveon.org stated to support president Clinton. Moveon.org was never the far left group Republicans portrayed them to be. Moveon.org was always against the war in Iraq and that war is on schedule to end.
Many Moveon.org members like myself were never against the war in Afghanistan. In fact Moveon.org endorsed Obama when he said he wanted to focus on Afghanistan because that was the real mistake in going to Iraq.
Whine all you want but the vast majority of liberals and progressives are behind the president. We don't have to agree with everything he does to support him.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Thanks Move On member for being a prime example of what I was just speaking about.
Posted by: Quist
» RE: KQuark, please explain why you support the war in Afghanistan
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: KQuark, please explain why you support the war in Afghanistan
Posted by: erjoell
» RE: KQuark, please explain why you support the war in Afghanistan
Posted by: MartinVeltjen
» RE: Wah Moveon.org is not attacking the president enough.
Posted by: shellius
» RE: I'm sick to death of frakkin' wars -- all of them
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Wah Moveon.org is not attacking the president enough.
Posted by: erjoell
» RE: Wah Moveon.org is not attacking the president enough.
Posted by: MartinVeltjen
» RE: Wah Moveon.org is not attacking the president enough.
Posted by: Tweck9
» Actually, its called "neoleft" or "neoliberal" which are right and left wings of the neocon .......
Posted by: Prophit
» Just got blocked at my other site from finishing posting this post.....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE:
Posted by: Tweck9
» RE: Actually, its called "neoleft" or "neoliberal" which are right and left wings of the neocon .......
Posted by: Tweck9
» Wow! A pro-War MoveOn ...
Posted by: AdamSelene40
» Just reading this above by KQuark, you can see the problem...
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: THANK GOD FOR TOM HAYDEN
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Health Care? MoveOn ignores single-payer :(
Posted by: Dolphyn
» RE: MOVEON needs to GROWUP!
Posted by: joeocho88
Comments are closed-
Posted by: richholland on May 27, 2009 1:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It happened to the socialists, to the Nazis, the Greens in Europe etc.
My fear for USA is that the Health Care revolution will NEVER happen, because Move On members are acting as sheep (all over the world, followers do this).
Step 1; protest, make sure you donot hesitate to take step 2.
step 2; quit. leave, go to another organization
but let everybody know it.
Donot expect an organization will solve your problems. Solve them with your friends, comrades, close family.
This is called responsibility for your own life.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» More importantly, those of you who signed up should immediately....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE:SOMETIMES YOU ARE THE LAST ONE STANDING
Posted by: joeocho88
» I am desperately looking for a step 2
Posted by: noalternative
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Christian Southern Liberal on May 27, 2009 2:13 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Taliban bans schooling for girls.
President Obama would not have started these wars.
We are the only nation with the capability of standing up for those on this planet who are being mercilessly slaughtered. The Taliban needs to be removed from Afghanistan, they are run by Arabs and not an indigenous group.
Iraq needs turned around. Halliburton/KBR has all of the contracts for everything over there, and is using Chinese and Indian slave labor. If there is to be peace in Iraq then the country needs turned around with actual Iraqis having the jobs. The USA destroyed that country, and I (for one) believe that we owe it to those people to rebuild their infrastructure, create jobs for Iraqis, use diplomacy to fairly divvy up the oil, split up the Halliburton/KBR corp into businesses that are owned and run by the people over there.
You are right that maybe we are not the ones who should be doing these things, but the USA is the only one who can.
If you have ideas of how peace can be achieved then write to our President and share those ideas. Merely pulling out of those areas will kill more civilians than staying there.
I also believe that we should make an effort to stop the slaughter in the Sudan, DR Congo region.
Afghanistan: Read "Three Cups of Tea" and then go to the website and donate.
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» Peace through slaughter
Posted by: kegbot1
» RE: The more the USA acts the world's cop the more it acts like the world's bully
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Taliban
Posted by: Tweck9
» A similiar argument was used to go to war with Iraq...well it was at least one of the arguments.
Posted by: Quist
» RE: Taliban
Posted by: tommy_slothrop
» Read my post above on "neocons" and see how they use religion...
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Taliban
Posted by: hilaryuk
» My comment today was taken off by Alternet.
Posted by: pfgetty
» More a slander than an embarassment
Posted by: brunowe
» Methinkgs thou doth protest too much, Brunowe!
Posted by: fsuthai
» You got the line wrong for starters
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Always thought something was wrong about that line.
Posted by: Reader in Japan
» "Christian" Comment
Posted by: login@bugmenot.com
» RE: IF THE USA GOES DOWN,THERE IS NOPLACE TO GO
Posted by: joeocho88
» RE: Taliban
Posted by: midwing
» RE: Taliban
Posted by: marysia
Comments are closed-
» So which is it, "thermite", "thermate" or "nanothermite"?
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: So which is it, "thermite", "thermate" or "nanothermite"?
Posted by: lively56
» So where is your evidence of the presence of nano-aluminum in your alleged "WTC dust samples"?
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: And you can't prove terrorists did it either
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Yes, and you believe Diane Feinstein sent Black Helicopters to "kidnap" you.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: I never said kidnap and there was only one
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Doesn't matter...
Posted by: Reader in Japan
» RE: Doesn't matter...
Posted by: tony_opmoc
» RE: Wow, Tony
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Still doesn't explain
Posted by: Reader in Japan
» RE: Still doesn't explain
Posted by: tony_opmoc
» RE: You never asked nicely
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Who do you "read" for, the CIA?
Posted by: fsuthai
» Thank you for your support, fsuthai, and thank you for thinking critically
Posted by: LeftWright
» Thank you for that, fsuthai.
Posted by: Centavo
» :) Centavo!
Posted by: LeftWright
» Good to see you, Centavo.
Posted by: pfgetty
» Thank you and likewise pfgetty.
Posted by: Centavo
» Yo PFGetty, when get done patting yourself on the back
Posted by: GuitarBill
» You've bitten yourself and gone mad...9/11 truthiness is...
Posted by: brunowe
» To a conspiranoid, "critical thinking" equals straw man arguments
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: I liked 'Sister_Lauren' better when she was just plain "Lauren"
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Doesn't matter...
Posted by: Reader in Japan
» RE: Saudi operatives tampering with Sis_Lauren's brother's computer?
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Guitar Bill, please stick with one identity, you get confusing when you post the same garbage....
Posted by: Prophit
» "Garbage"? So where's your "evidence" for nano-aluminum in the "dust samples"?
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: I never said kidnap and there was only one
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Yes, and you believe Diane Feinstein sent Black Helicopters to "kidnap" you.
Posted by: tony_opmoc
» Tony, do you have a link to that article... I would love it....
Posted by: Prophit
» Link in FT "The spinelessness and moral cowardice of the Obama administration"
Posted by: tony_opmoc
» Wouldn't the Mossad grab Hadji instead?
Posted by: brunowe
» Brown nose, Heritage foundation is on the phone for you....
Posted by: Prophit
» Plopped it, the voice in your head want you to slow down...
Posted by: brunowe
» Answer to why we are in Afghanistan? DRUGS TO FUND BLACK OPS...and gas pipeline...
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Please
Posted by: solrev
» RE: We are arguing for the rule of law
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Please
Posted by: tony_opmoc
» You forgot an important factor... we outnumber them thousands to one..... thus they do have to ....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Please
Posted by: GatoPreto
» RE: I wouldn't mind him falling for it so much
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» solrev - read what former FBI director Louis Freeh has to say about 9/11:
Posted by: LeftWright
» solrev – read what Senator Patrick Leahy has to say about 9/11:
Posted by: LeftWright
» solrev – read what former Senator Mark Dayton has to say about 9/11:
Posted by: LeftWright
» solrev – read what former Senator Mike Gravel has to say about 9/11:
Posted by: LeftWright
» solrev – read what former Senator Max Cleland has to say about 9/11:
Posted by: LeftWright
» solrev – read what 29-year CIA veteran William Christison has to say about 9/11:
Posted by: LeftWright
» solrev – read what 27-year CIA veteran Raymond L. McGovern has to say about 9/11:
Posted by: LeftWright
» solrev – read what 24-year CIA veteran Melvin Goodman has to say about 9/11:
Posted by: LeftWright
» solrev – read what former FBI translator Sibel Edmonds has to say about 9/11:
Posted by: LeftWright
» solrev – read what 24-year FBI veteran Coleen Rowley has to say about 9/11:
Posted by: LeftWright
» solrev – read what Lt. Col. Karen U. Kwiatkowski (ret) has to say about 9/11:
Posted by: LeftWright
» Thank you, LeftWright!
Posted by: fsuthai
» Thank you, fsuthai, wouldn't it be great if Alternet did a readers' poll on 9/11?
Posted by: LeftWright
» Yes, a big thank-you, LeftWright.
Posted by: Centavo
» You're very welcome and I can put you in touch with people there
Posted by: LeftWright
» Leftwright, have you heard this about the Olson call?
Posted by: Centavo
» Yes, I own and have read all of DRG's books
Posted by: LeftWright
» Re: On 9/11/06 I first heard then saw flashes and then saw the WTC tower floors pancaking
Posted by: Silverhawk
» Re: On 9/11/06 I first heard then saw flashes and then saw the WTC tower floors pancaking
Posted by: Silverhawk
Comments are closed-
Posted by: merrill on May 27, 2009 2:58 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Bush administration never saved any lives in USA and then went on their own killing spree in the mideast. The entire mideast was never a part of 9/11/01 and should not be treated as such.
The USA should buy oil and natural gas from the mideast not control or steal it.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» To anyone truly interested in learning about the events of 9/11/01, here are some places to start:
Posted by: LeftWright
» RE:911 WAS A PRETEXT TO GRAB OIL AND OPIUM POPPY REVENUES
Posted by: joeocho88
Comments are closed-
Posted by: itsthemedication on May 27, 2009 3:14 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: American Jews in general are hawks on middle east war and the war drums are growing louder
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Jews vs. Mormons on the Iraq War
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: It is posts like this that make me laugh
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: The Heritage foundation troll, Guitar "Shill" stays busy
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: American Jews in general are hawks on middle east war and the war drums are growing louder
Posted by: itsthemedication
» RE: the Iran war drums are coming from Israel through Kristol, et. al.
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Gee, guess who controls the media??? LOL Kristol and the neocon owners of the press...
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Who do you think these neocons work for
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Private citizen Kristol, should not be involved in anyway in Our countries decisions...
Posted by: Prophit
» Your right, its not the "people", they want peace and fairness....
Posted by: Prophit
Comments are closed-
Posted by: richholland on May 27, 2009 3:18 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
it is common knowledge that 9/11 is partly orchestrated. What do you want???
USA people only do a thing when it makes money.
How much makes it when you know the truth re 9/11
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» RE: 9/11
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: 9/11
Posted by: jpAcosta
» RE: WHO IS TOM HAYDEN ANYWAY? MR. JANE FONDA, LOST IN THE 1960S.
Posted by: joeocho88
Comments are closed-
Posted by: remo on May 27, 2009 3:39 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What does it take for serious journalism to realize what is going on under their NOSES? The Government reached agreement not to tell the truth about what happened???????? So, alternet researchers, what does that MAKE the 911 commission report? What does that make the NIST report if NIST failed to mention their own deep involvement in nano-thermite technologies while 'just happening' to not investigate the 'possibility' of such nano-thermitic material being used that day?
Theres a blunt trauma LIE standing a thousand feet high right infront of us every day. Its called 911.the hijack conspiracy theory.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» So, where's your evidence for the presence of "nano-aluminum" in the samples?
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Nuts, aren't you
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: GB's posted it before.
Posted by: Reader in Japan
» RE: GB is a fool
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: GB is a fool
Posted by: Reader in Japan
» RE: Payback for your highjacking of the boards
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Payback for your highjacking of the boards
Posted by: GuitarBill
» Lauren, that Japan guy is Guitar "Shill", ignore him, read what he said... you can tell who it is.
Posted by: Prophit
» "prophit", tell us about your other AlterNet account: "prophit0"?
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Lauren, that Japan guy is Guitar "Shill", ignore him, read what he said... you can tell who it i
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Brain-dead, aren't you?
Posted by: GuitarBill
» There is an old saying in zoo's.....If you don't want the monkey to act outrageous.... then...
Posted by: Prophit
» %^)
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: DON'T FEED THE MONKEY
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» I said nano-aluminum, not "aluminum".
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: I said nano-aluminum, not "aluminum".
Posted by: remo
» RE: I said nano-aluminum, not "aluminum".
Posted by: GuitarBill
» Correction. I hit the post button instead of edit.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» And where's your reliable source for nanothermite applications beyond detonation?
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: I said nano-aluminum, not "aluminum".
Posted by: GuitarBill
» Try Lawrence Livermore National Labs, GB
Posted by: LeftWright
» The article you present as "evidence" doesn't even mention "nanothermite".
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: The article you present as "evidence" doesn't even mention "nanothermite".
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: There is a blunt trauma LIE standing a thousand feet high right in front of us every day
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
Comments are closed-
Posted by: andyi99 on May 27, 2009 4:04 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: MoveOn as a steppingstone
Posted by: peterjkraus
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ExposeTheIsraelLobby on May 27, 2009 4:07 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
by Tom Hayden
Twenty-five years ago I stared into the eyes of Michael Berman, chief operative for his congressman-brother, Howard Berman. I was a neophyte running for the California Assembly in a district that the Bermans claimed belonged to them.
"I represent the Israeli defense forces," Michael said. I thought he was joking. He wasn't. Michael seemed to imagine himself the gatekeeper protecting Los Angeles' Westside for Israel's political interests, and those of the famous Berman-Waxman machine. Since Jews represented one-third of the Democratic district's primary voters, Berman held a balance of power.
All that year I tried to navigate the district's Jewish politics. The solid historical liberalism of the Westside was a favorable factor, as was the strong support of many Jewish community leaders. But the community was moving in a more conservative direction... Many in the organized community were suspicious of the New Left for becoming Palestinian sympathizers after the Six Day War; they would become today's neoconservatives.
(snip)
It is still painful and embarrassing to describe these events of nearly 25 years ago, but with Israel today again bombing Lebanon and Israeli officials bragging about "rolling back the clock by twenty years" and reconfiguring the Middle East, I feel obliged to speak out against history repeating.
How do I read today's news through the lens of the past?
What I fear is that the "Israeli lobby" is working overtime to influence American public opinion on behalf of Israel's military effort to "roll back the clock" and "change the map" of the region, going far beyond issues like prisoner exchange. (snip)
What I fear is the rehabilitation of the discredited U.S. neoconservative agenda to ignite a larger war against Hamas, Hezbollah, Syria and Iran. The neoconservatives' 1996 "Clean Break" memo advocated that Israel "roll back" Lebanon and destabilize Syria in addition to overthrowing Saddam Hussein. An intellectual dean of the neoconservatives, Bernard Lewis, has long advocated the "Lebanonization" of the Middle East, meaning the disintegration of nation states into "a chaos of squabbling, feuding, fighting sects, tribes, regions and parties."
This divide-and-conquer strategy, a brainchild of the region's British colonizers, is already taking effect in Iraq, where America overthrew a secular state, installed a Shiite majority and its militias in power and now portrays itself as the only protection for Sunnis against those same Shiites. The resulting quagmire has become a justification for American troops to remain.
read the rest at HuffingtonPost.com
Watch the following videos on the carving up of Iraq:
youtube.com/watch?v=u4MdyJDnSoI
youtube.com/watch?v=yp_iTR9dI6o
Watch the BBC documentary "The War Party" (part 1 of 5)
Watch the Dutch Tegenlicht documentary "The Israel Lobby"
Companion video Endgame: A Future Scenario for Israel
philipweiss.org
.
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» RE: MAYBE TOM HAYDEN AND MEL GIBSON CAN MAKE A HITLER FILM
Posted by: joeocho88
» RE: MAYBE TOM HAYDEN AND MEL GIBSON CAN MAKE A HITLER FILM
Posted by: troy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: greenferret on May 27, 2009 4:33 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Green Party, on the other hand, has been opposing the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan since before they started. If you're against war, it's time to get active in a party that shares your values.
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» RE: MoveOn is not anti-war, it's pro-Democrat
Posted by: Erin
» RE: MoveOn is not anti-war, it's pro-Democrat
Posted by: Tweck9
» RE: I can tell you a few nasties about the Greens
Posted by: navy-vet
» RE: I can tell you a few nasties about the Greens
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps
» Yes, right wingers would never masquerade as "left wingers" for the benefit of the GOP.
Posted by: GuitarBill
Comments are closed-
Posted by: obamapawn on May 27, 2009 5:00 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These people still believe that the government is basically good and is doing its best to protect and help people in this country and of course to spread democracy around the world.
An example of the naivety of the peace movement is the bumper sticker that says " War is not the answer".The peace movement actually thinks the best I could tell that this government wages war as a result of some mistake that they keep making over and over again.
The truth is that war is the answer for those who wage it, namely the military-industrial oil private central banking complex.
Until the people of this country wake up to the fact that the war on terror is based on lies and deceptions perpetrated by this complex. The government is completely complicit in carrying on this fake war on terror. As long as people believe that 9/11 was perpetrated by 19 Arab terrorists, they will believe in the war on Terror.
Until the progressive, informed people including all of the well-informed and well-intentioned journalists who keep referring to the current state of the affairs as being a huge mistake on the part of his government and wake up to the fact that the government is run by the military-industrial oil private central banking complex that has no other purpose than power and money.
The government of this country sold out to this complex many years ago.
go to www.911insidejob.net for many articles and videos.
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» Thats true and was confirmed by Eisenhower in his final address to the nation..
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: IKE and REAGAN - THE TWO LAST AMERICAN PRESIDENTS
Posted by: joeocho88
Comments are closed-
Posted by: tony_opmoc on May 27, 2009 5:09 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now if you check out the Big donors - and you read what they say they stand for, and the programs they support - you get a veneer - a facade of social respectability and responsibility. The appear to contribute significant sums to worthwile causes that do very useful work in places all over the World.
So you support them and you end up with Obama and you Celebrate. But you then check out what Obama actually does - rather than what he says.
You see the escalation of War in Afghanistan. You see the Words about Torture and compare them with the actions. You see the Financial System Crash.
You check out the real Background of those with the Big Money who are Dictating The Agenda. You discover how they obtained their enormous wealth, power and influence.
And they are different from the neocons - though their objectives are similar.
They want to do it in an even more evil and aggressive way. The objective is World Domination and Control - and that means the objectives go beyond control of the Middle East. The real objective is the isolation and control of China and Russia
BushCo just wanted control of the oil.
The Obamaboys want much more than that - they want control of the entire World. They will Bomb Pakistan and Afghanistan to hell to get it - and even further impoverish Americans to pay for it.
The end Result will be World War III and we will all Lose and the Cockroaches will inherit the Earth.
The only thing we can do, is point out the evil and stand up and shout. We are all sliding into the depths of depravity. It is our Governments that are doing this to us - controlled by exceedingly rich and powerful psychopaths.
Tony
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Posted by: earena on May 27, 2009 5:09 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Well that was cleverly timed
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Right, shame on Move on for misrepresenting what those responses were.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: It's the economy, stupid
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE:NO, TOM HAYDEN WANTS TO RELIVE HIS 1960s ANTIWAR GLORY DAYS!
Posted by: joeocho88
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Posted by: Daito on May 27, 2009 5:19 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» He is going to destroy the youth of this nation and its future.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: And if WE decide to stop paying them our taxes...
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ABetterFuture on May 27, 2009 5:45 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nothing more to see here.
Business as usual.
Move along, citizen...
That's Change You Can Print, while Yes You Still Can! (pending the Chinese calling in the debts of this--our--debtor nation)
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» RE: CHINA IS GOING TO SEND THEIR MILITARY TO COLLECT FROM US
Posted by: joeocho88
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Posted by: daw13 on May 27, 2009 6:24 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: They must receive more facts in support of reality
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
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Posted by: grindermonkey on May 27, 2009 7:31 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: OK, I agree all that is true, so what do you DO about it
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
Comments are closed-
Posted by: navy-vet on May 27, 2009 7:41 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
MoveOn was NEVER "antiwar"! It was founded as online support for the 2004 national Democratic campaign. By 2005 it became pretty clear to a lot of us antiwar veterans that MoveOn was basically a money-raising arm of the Democratic establishment, focused on opening the wallets of liberal activists. Since I'm retired and have no spare change, I doubt that I ever sent them a dollar. Their "activist" meetings were largely ludicrous and useless, held indoors in people's homes, meeting halls, church basements or restaurants, often nothing more than using members as phone banks to call prospective voters, and guaranteed NOT to attract passers-by or large crowds. Their "democratic" polls seldom resulted in activism. Their "antiwar" claims were made strictly to attract antiwar voters and contributors. Clever!
Quite a few other activists came to the same conclusions. There were a few skeptical, even cynical, reports in the Indy online press. Back in 05 or 06, I told MoveOn to drop my name, which, after a struggle, eventually they did.
I was amused at MoveOn's righteous indignation when, in 2007, both parties in Congress raked into them for reasons I've forgotten and have no interest in recollecting. This was reported in all the alternate news services, and some writers seemed puzzled, which means they really believed that MoveOn was genuinely liberal. (It's hard tell if Tom Hayden still does.) Anyhow, I signed on again just to follow this hilarious story, since it was my not-really-paranoid belief that it was a cleverly cool cooked-up conspiracy between MoveOn and the DNC, to regain members MoveOn had lost. New members and old ones were needed to help gather liberal money and phone bank folks for the 08 campaign.
I guess it worked, since they regained me as a recipient of emails, although I sent no money. I've never bothered to sign out again, since, after the election, they haven't plagued us with HOURLY pleas for money. Generally I just delete MoveOn messages without reading more than the subject line, although I forwarded one of their online petitions a few weeks ago since the issue seemed urgent. Only a few of their causes are earthshaking, and there's no assurance a petition is even being sent to Congress. MoveOn is not trustworthy.
Whatver Obama wants Obama gets from MoveOn. We can read their stuff now and then, but NEVER send them money! We are much better off contributing to organizations we know are transparent, truly independent, and represent our convictions, not those of a political party. ANY political party--Dems, Repubs, Greens, Know-Nothings. Any.
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» RE: They really believed that MoveOn was genuinely liberal
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: They really believed that MoveOn was genuinely liberal
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: They really believed that MoveOn was genuinely liberal
Posted by: tony_opmoc
» RE: No, I have lots of experience being hacked
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» I believe you're refering to the "Gen. Be-tray-us" ad campaign
Posted by: LeftWright
» RE: THE ONLY REALPOLITIK IS MONEY
Posted by: joeocho88
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sherry on May 27, 2009 7:53 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Association with MoveOn can actually damage progressive causes and candidates. A friend of mine did their bidding for a year or so (the most absurd activity involved picketing outside a local Citgo --- I kid you not --- station). When that friend ran for local office, he found himself branded as a "MoveOn" activist and hasn't been able to shake the label.
MoveOn sent a rep to our town to "organize" us. We were already organized particularly around single-payer and anti-invasion-of-the-Middle East, but they condescendingly ignored that fact and told us they had thousands of MoveOn volunteers in our neck of the woods ready to join us. I refused but others did what they asked, and not one new volunteer materialized. Meanwhile, our local work suffered.
Progressive Democrats of America, for those who want to push Dems instead of apologize for them, are clearer and focused and honest.
In the long run, the Green Party has a platform that is clearly progressive and holds the advantage of having fellow Greens globally. The idea of national parties has always seemed counter-productive and provincial, to say the least.
MoveOn, however, is worse than national parties because we don't know what it is or who it is. I'm convinced its main objective is to keep us in line, quiet, and certainly not organizing third parties. Political prozac, if you will.
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» Don't trust the Greens either!
Posted by: navy-vet
» RE: Don't be a "true believer"
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Don't trust the Greens either!
Posted by: sherry
» How 'bout some facts to back those claims, sailor?
Posted by: antiapathy
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Posted by: Chuck23 on May 27, 2009 8:22 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on May 27, 2009 8:25 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...PARTY 'Gamesmanship' & PARTISANSHIP
...PERSONAL PROMOTION & CAREERS
perhaps you'd accomplish something worthwhile.
as it stands, all Corruption, Money & Power need do is find your selfish weakspots & fears...
& convince you that you CAN'T WIN UNLESS YOU GIVE UP WHAT'S IMPORTANT.
you've gotten suckered.
yet again.
but who suffers most?
Let's be honest NON-Americans *suffer more* because Americans always ensure they've protected themselves more than they protect those they abuse.
if you're "un-American", you're barely human.
Do Americans play *enough* binary team sports?
seriously.
The entire culture is focused around a 'zero-sum game' mentality
"Corruption is why we WIN!" & I'll be damned if Americans don't have a national knee-jerk belief that *somebody has to be dehumanized* so that Americans can win at all costs
unfortunately, that mindset pervades the national consciousness as well as BOTH political parties.
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Posted by: RegK on May 27, 2009 8:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The US still thinks it can run everyone else and always claims their interests entitle them to interfere in others' affairs.
People, let's MoveOn from MoveOn. They are holding us back from confronting the wars and the creeping police state apparatus the national security obsession has brought with it. Tom, how about launching 'Seniors for a Democratic Society'?!
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» RE: Let's talk about the other 9/11... good idea
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
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Posted by: willymack on May 27, 2009 8:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Its tentacles are EVERYWHERE
It's beyond control
It's thoroughly amoral and EVIL
It cares not one whit for what the majority of us want, namely PEACE
It either buys off or scares off anyone who opposes it. Moveon is no exception
There will be NO END to war if it's allowed to go on as it has
We, the people, allowed this monstrosity to grow and prosper through ignorance, indifference, and self-interest. Only we can bring it to an end
We're doing a big, fat NOTHING to accomplish this.
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» Only we can bring it to an end, you say.
Posted by: Centavo
» RE: It is a cover up, expose it
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» I'm all for it. We'll just keep on keepin on!
Posted by: Centavo
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Posted by: better vision on May 27, 2009 9:17 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When the king pins of the neo-con world make a decision, all the pawns get on the band wagon. They redefine water torture as enhanced interrogation. They call reducing EPA clean air standards the "clear skies initiative." They call clear cutting the forest, -forest fire prevention and sell it as the "healthy forest initiative." When they can't find wmd's they claim that Sad damn shipped them to Syria - let's invade them too!
After James Earl negotiated a closure of the plutonium processing plant in North Korea, they call Jong Il Kim part of the "axis of evil" and scare him into nuclear development. But through all the hateful, evil and inexcusable actions of the previous regime in Washington - the repugnant-cans stuck together.
Now come the Dems - "Obama broke his promise" -"move on is a bunch of neo-cons." "Excuuuuuse me." As a move-on member, a democrat and a White Anglo Saxon Protestant, Christian, I haven't changed my mind on anything. The overthrow of the Taliban was right, the invasion of Iraq was wrong. Torture is wrong, Bush Cheney and the gang should be on trial as war criminal, Pelosi knew all about it from the beginning. Obama can't do everything that everyone wants and do it all at once.
So go ahead - click on that little "1" and show me how appreciated my efforts to get control of Washington and my thoughts are.
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» RE: Attack each other
Posted by: cmaciain
» RE: Attack each other
Posted by: better vision
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Posted by: weathered on May 27, 2009 9:22 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
America was mortally wounded on 9/11 and placed on a life support system of Lies - the buffoon gitarSpill is a 1-800 number of caustic distractions for which there are far too many.
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» RE: War of Mass Deception
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: War of Mass Deception
Posted by: tony_opmoc
» RE: You are too nice - and the bastards would make mincemeat of you
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
Comments are closed-
Posted by: brian boru on May 27, 2009 9:31 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bush was honest, unsophisticated and above all else stupid. He exposed America for what it is, a militaristic society where war has become a way of life and major American corporations engage in war for profit.
The USA is run on this war profit motive and presently all presidents will do the bidding of the war industry whether they are Republican or Democrat.
People were naive if they thought Obama would change anything in America's quest for war and it's profits. Obama is now a shill for American corporations who have waged war for over a hundred years.
We are dealing with the same people here we have been stuck with for more than a century.
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Posted by: PaulK on May 27, 2009 9:36 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do you want health care? The wars are where we got 300,000 vets with IED concussion problems, 250,000 vets with Gulf War Syndrome, and another pile of vets with various major parts of their bodies missing. Then the shameless liars got these same vets by the thousands to sign waivers that disenfranchised them from the VA health care system. That's where your single payer health care money will go, to pay for the war's offloaded costs.
Do you want the U.S. to live within its carbon budget? You guessed 'er, Chester. It's the war.
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» RE: War, who makes the money
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: War is interlinked with the other goals
Posted by: Johnny Hempseed
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Posted by: melpol on May 27, 2009 9:39 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: chlamor on May 27, 2009 9:59 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The death toll of the democrats is quite large:
Greek Civil War: 160,000 (Truman)
Korean War: 3 million (Truman)
Assault on Indochina: 5 million (started under Truman, accelerated under Kennedy & LBJ)
Coup in Indonesia: 1 million (LBJ)
East Timor: 100,000 (Carter)
Kwangju Massacre: 2000 (Carter)
Argentine Dirty War: 30,000 (mostly Carter)
Iraq sanctions: 1.5 million (mostly Clinton)
Turkish Kurdistan: 40,000 (mostly Clinton)
That's at least 10,8022,000 killed by democrats, 9,292,000 if one only counts the liberal governments (Clinton wasn't really a liberal). And this is just the tip of the iceberg; these are only the most famous incidents over the last couple of decades. If you add up the total from periods preceding this and the less famous incidents the number get much, much higher. If you add in starvation (a direct result of capitalism) it gets even higher.
Democrats could have stopped the congressional authorization for the Iraq war (via filibustering) but instead lots of them defected to the warmongers’ side. They could have stopped many of the nasty things the Republicans are doing by filibuster but choose not to. Many democrats actively supported the war. Most of those who did oppose it offered little opposition, chickening out when the shooting started and either abstained or voted in favor of the pro-war "support our troops" resolution in March. Even Dennis Kucinich, leader of the "anti-war" opposition in the house, abstained from the vote instead of voting against it. It was only after Bush's war started going sour that vocal criticism began to come from democrats, which is completely opportunistic. Bush's lies and fabrications about the Niger Uranium had already been exposed prior to the war, but it wasn't until after the invasion was completed and the democrats needed an issue to attack Bush with that they started whining about it.
The Democratic Party, the party of slavery, has a long history of mass murder and empire building. They are not an alternative to the American Empire. Especially on foreign policy, there is remarkable consistency between republican and democratic administrations. If the Nuremberg standards were applied every President since World War Two, both democrat and republican, would have to be hung. Both parties have the same basic goals; they just disagree on minor details. It would have been much harder for Bush to conquer Iraq (perhaps politically impossible) if Clinton hadn't been waging war against it for his entire term. The policies implemented by the US government have more to do with the specific circumstances of the time period then with which particular individual happens to occupy the white house. If a democrat is elected he will inherit this Pax Americana and it is unlikely that he would dismantle it (or even be capable of dismantling it). A vote for the democrats is a vote for imperialism and war (as is a vote for the Republicans).
Liberal Holocaust
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» RE: The Democratic Party has a long and bloody history. Democrats are imperialists and mass murderers
Posted by: tony_opmoc
» Pretty damn good page
Posted by: clresu
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Posted by: patsy6 on May 27, 2009 10:43 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've moved on from MoveOn, and you can too if you feel they are no longer speaking for you. There are plenty of other grassroots organizations who are truly liberal and truly worthy of our support; People for the American Way, Progressive Democrats of America, True Majority, to name just a few. Perhaps even more worthy than that are the non-netroots groups, the local community organizations. We all have them, and they're right in our town. After all, that's really what grassroots is all about.
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Posted by: booboo on May 27, 2009 12:04 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Time is running out."
"But if not same old same old, what?"
"Mass uprisings."
"Leadership?"
"As in all mass uprisings?"
"Namely?"
"Everyone's a leader."
"Based on?"
"One equals one."
"Anything else?"
"Yes we can."
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Posted by: tony_opmoc on May 27, 2009 3:11 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A fundamental issue is that our current economic system is based on perpetual growth that in a finite world is not sustainable.
The solution our corporate elites have come up with is to smash it down and tear it apart. This involves mass destruction on a Worldwide scale. We've already had two World Wars and a Third One will probably be Terminal for the Human Race.
But that is the only way the elites think their economic model on which their power and wealth is based can be sustained.
But there are far better solutions that will benefit the whole human race and all life on this planet.
We need to find them by discussions that analyse all our problems objectively and without bias and refine solutions that will actually work.
We must first realise that we have been programmed by our leaders and the media they control with a mass of disinformation. Much of which we believe to be true will not only turn out to be false - but we will have been programmed with this disinformation for the specific purpose of causing conflict amongst us, and to hide what their real agenda actually is.
Acceptable solutions will not be based on violent revolution - that will simply be feeding the destruction agenda of tearing it all down - to hopefully rebuild it if society survives.
The elites are Globalists. The destruction of Nation states by Civil War - may actually be on their agenda. It's quite clear that impoverishment is on their agenda and its not just Third World countries. To assume these elites have any real loyalty to their countries of origin is a Big Mistake.
We are perceived by the elites as cannon fodder, landless peasents, slaves and useless eaters.
We need to Stand Up and Shout, To Challenge and To Discuss Solutions.
95% of us are on the same side and want the same things.
Its not a Right VS Left thing and violence is not a solution.
Tony
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» RE: Now you are speaking my language
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Read "How Nonviolence Protects the State" by Gelderlos
Posted by: clresu
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Posted by: Garvagh on May 27, 2009 3:20 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: BlueTigress on May 27, 2009 4:12 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Pretty much all their e-mails ever tell me is that "_________ is bad! Can you send us money to combat it?"
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Posted by: weslen1 on May 27, 2009 4:55 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama talks of the other 16 or so countries who "harbor terrorists". Be prepared for many wars never ending. The Neocons have been repeating their terrorist mantra for so long, those of us who are still sane are losing ground. I see no hope for change at all.
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Posted by: DaBear on May 27, 2009 5:15 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yeah all that bullshit about two party lockouts and shit only makes continued sense in that progressives still consistently shoot themselves in the foot by drinking the owning class Imperial kool-aid. MoveOn is and always has been an owning class milquetoast ponzi scheme. Just read their "response" to Hayden's piece! Can you say owning-class excuse factory?! Jeebus, with pals like them who needs the Nazis?!
When the theater's on fire, it's wholly appropriate to yell fire and flee. When a bully is punching you in the gut and stealing your lunch money as the Dims have been doing consistently, the appropriate response is to stand up to the bully.
Now that Obama is selling us all down the owning-class river of Empire®, it's long past time for progressives to quit fucking around and get serious. You want Korten's Earth Community or you want to keep bending over to Empire?
Choose. This is war. Them against us. And it's on all levels. When your back's to the wall you don't go shaggin' the bully's pal who's cornering you to get out, you break out, stand up to them and fight. NO ONE is going to give progressives what we want, need, or must have. We. Must. Take. It. Ourselves.
End of sermon.
1789
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Posted by: AlwaysAskWhy on May 27, 2009 5:45 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
MoveOn has only been a NAIVE little band of internet nerds who have never, ever understood the core issues or the lengths to which the powerful rich will go to get what they want, including A WAR-FOR-PROFIT, WHICH IS MASS MURDER. Good at the technical aspects of whipping up a facility for speaking out, they have NEVER BEEN REAL LEADERS in the CAUSE FOR HUMAN LIFE, LIBERTY, PEACE, OR, SADLY, JUSTICE UNDER THE LAW. They completely and utterly ignored millions of us who demanded they lead on impeachment. I believe they did so so that THEY COULD RETAIN THEIR UNDESERVED POWER AND LITTLE MORE THAN FLACID INFLUENCE. MOVE ON IS JUST ANOTHER BUNCH OF SMALL MINDED POWER MONGERS, WHO ALSO CAVED IN TO FEAR.
MoveOn, through their incompetence (a bunch of guys who attained their highest level of incompetence, i.e., the Peter Principle) has led American Progressives astray, NO, DEVERTED THEM FROM their purpose and goals ... right down the yellow brick road. And American Progressives ("organizing liberals is like herding butterflies") followed them, WASTING PRECIOUS TIME, ENERGY AND EFFORT, WASTING LIVES, AND WASTING DEMOCRACY.
MOVEON, LIKE PELOSI AND THE OTHER COWARDS IN CONGRESS, LET AMERICANS DOWN AND, THEREFOR, AIDED AND ABETTED THE CONTINUANCE OF BUSH/CHENEY CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY AND OUR DEMOCRACY!
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Posted by: troy on May 27, 2009 6:39 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Shame.
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Posted by: Jeanne on May 27, 2009 8:08 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: badkitty on May 27, 2009 8:52 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
MoveOn has its place. I think a real anti-war movement will have to come from somewhere else, but I don't know where, since some of us have been obsessing about this since October 2001.
I really do not understand why it seems that every article gets swarmed by 9/11 conspiracy theorists. It's over! A group of people flew some planes into the World Trade Center and killed about 3,000 people (adults). Every single day about 3,000 people (mostly children) died of hunger and hunger related causes around the world. So maybe there was a conspiracy and maybe not, I really don't care. As a 59 year old, I can tell you that the government has lied about many things, and sometimes they get caught. But we have more important things to obsess on--ending two illegal wars, abolishing the Department of Defense, and trying to slow down climate change. Let's give MoveOn its place, remember that 9/11 was a classic guerrilla attack by the dispossessed (seriously, the powers that be have a pretty limited imagination, and probably did not come up with the idea to fly planes into buildings), and try to focus on a real anti-war movement.
Hey Tom, I miss the good old days in the Bateman neighborhood! Take care.
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» It's so much more than the 'numbers', badkitty!
Posted by: fsuthai
» RE: It's so much more than the 'numbers', badkitty!
Posted by: badkitty
» 9/11 created 9/11 "war on terror" & what followed based on a DC conspiracy theory CoverUp
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps
» RE: 9/11 created 9/11 "war on terror" & what followed based on a DC conspiracy theory CoverUp
Posted by: badkitty
» RE: A big thanks for a lucid response to a good article
Posted by: peterjkraus
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Posted by: Revolutionary (Direct) Democracy on May 27, 2009 9:13 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
FREE AMERICA
REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY
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Posted by: wormfarmer on May 27, 2009 10:41 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: halg on May 28, 2009 12:07 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Green Party believes in non-violence, and has been against this war -- and every war -- since it began. You won't find the GP or any (genuine) front for the GP endorsing or supporting war of any kind.
But you insist on staying loyal to your DP, if you must ...
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Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on May 28, 2009 3:24 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Tom Hayden was hardly engaging at an "attempt" .
What a load of rubbish from an org that claims to represent the rank and file of America over social justice, equality and the usual "Hope you can believe in" stand that Obama sold America on.
Of course Obama and Move On are both committed frauds and have been busted as such. Obama was the easier of the 2 to ID as a snake oil trickster with his support for domestic spying, Wall Street Bailout extortion and utterly cooked 9/11 "war on terror" of 1,000 LIES promoted on the proven coverup at 9/11 busted by Senator Max Cleland as well as Kean and Hamilton of the 9/11 "Commission".
No need to mention Obama's failed record on single payer healthcare and all the rest of his domestic kickbacks to the corporate monopoly that runs him and his puppet regime.
The common charade that Obama is a "centrist" with MoveOn has got to be at the bottom of the toilet tank when it comes to grotesque excuses. There is no "center" at a corporate monopoly Fascist state pretending to be a “democracy” run on “capitalism” when “democracy” DOES NOT EXIST any more than free markets do.
Obama was never an antidote for BushCo with both temp regimes run by the same international Bilderberg-CFR-Wall Street machine. In fact, Obama is the grotesque symbol of everything wrong with America: a jolly tinsel glib and glam play-actor pimped off on the nation to sell it out. In the end MoveOn appears just another propaganda tool and limited hangout front for organized corporate crime that brought us the meltdown, bailouts and utterly bogus 9/11 "war on terror".
Like the Washington-MSM circus, MoveOn has come down to one thing:
a Judas Goat.
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Posted by: Farasien on May 28, 2009 7:17 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. Put out some pseudo-populist ideas attacking the business and policymaking powerhouses.
2. Announce your intention to either A) run for office or B) form a PAC or some pseudo-entity that sounds like one (MoveOn, for example)
3. Scream and rant publicly making broad proclamations about what you're going to do to 'the bad guys' (business, the status quo, what-have-you)
4. Approach those same people you publicly attacked in step #3 and suggest you might be 'persuaded' to call off your attacks if you were given some 'support' in your public bid
5. Profit/get elected
6. Screw your original supporters while denying you ever said anything that you did in the beginning.
7. Shift your policy base to the center where the dumbasses live and give money reflexively.
8. Scrub, rinse and repeat.
I'm only 34 years old and I've seen it happen so many times, I can usually predict the winner in any political race now because of it. Learn some history, folks. We were conned from the beginning and until the corpses of politicians are rotting in the streets, it will never change.
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Posted by: aahpat on May 28, 2009 7:29 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
MoveOn.org has been totally silent about the authoritarian war on drugs that destroys millions of American lives, subsidizes crime and terrorism and is the legal basis for for the laws that eventually made up the Patriot Act.
MoveOn.org is a fraud! So too are the drug policy reform groups on America that do whatever and only what the white male dominated authoritarians in the Democratic Party leadership tell them to do.
THERE IS NO ANTI WAR MOVEMENT IN AMERICA!
The thug Democrats won't allow anyone to rock their boat.
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Posted by: aahpat on May 28, 2009 7:47 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The right-wing white leadership of the Democratic Party has talked out of both sides of its mouth ever since, espousing social justice and peace while only promoting and electing war mongers and racists.
MoveOn.org is simply the latest example of the DNC's ability to subvert and neutralize any and all social justice movements in America. The Democrats have perverted MoveOn.org to the craven political needs of the white right-wing dominated authoritarian Democratic Party.
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Posted by: Silverhawk on May 28, 2009 10:33 PM
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Posted by: JohnHKennedy Denver CO on May 29, 2009 5:19 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now a majority want Prosecution For Torture and the members are again being ignored.
BUT THE LEADERSHIP Milks Them For MONEY Regularly.
The only thing MoveOn represents is the power hungry influence peddlers at the top.
Ignore the MoveOn leadership. Stop giving them money.
And
If you do nothing else for your Country today,
SIGN THE PETITION To Prosecute Them For Torture at ANGRYVOTERS dot ORG
http://ANGRYVOTERS.ORG
Over 250,000 have signed
Join them and call yourself a Patriot
.
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Posted by: Beck on May 29, 2009 5:33 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe there would be even more comments but for all the pauses to self-backpat.
So does this really change the world for the better, or does it just make a little cyberworld appear changed?
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Posted by: charliemudcat on May 29, 2009 1:45 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: I seldom come to this site anymore
Posted by: badkitty
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Posted by: midwing on May 29, 2009 5:03 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If we don't do something about funding healthcare for all, we're going to have people dying on the streets. What a pretty sight that will be. We already have more homeless and starving people than we are willing to admit to- don't want other countries to know how bad things really are.
Midwing
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Posted by: NMDreamer on May 30, 2009 1:12 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
MoveOn staked its claim to moral authority with that move, and is now in no position to speak against Obama's policies unless they are willing to say that they backed the wrong candidate - or at least to say that the candidate they lauded so highly might be merely mortal after all.
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Posted by: prettyreplica on May 31, 2009 8:33 PM
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Posted by: DrBrian on May 27, 2009 12:29 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» I agree...except it is not all the progressive community, just the Democratic party zombies.
Posted by: Quist
» RE: Becoming Neocons
Posted by: shellius
» RE: MoveOn is not completely abandoning the anti-war war stance
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Rubin, is he related to the Rubin who was Clintons treasurer?
Posted by: Prophit
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Quist on May 27, 2009 1:01 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Afgan War is the Dems/Obama's War which equals "good war".
Iraq War was the Repubs/Bush's War which equals "bad war".
As long as people keep blindly subscribing to a political party, they will blindly support their terrible policies...at least for the most part. BTW, this one of many reasons why I do not subscribe to one party or political group.
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» RE: Blindly subscribe to a political party
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Move On is still an apologist group for the Democratic party...so what would you expect?
Posted by: erjoell
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Posted by: KQuark on May 27, 2009 1:03 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You forget Moveon.org stated to support president Clinton. Moveon.org was never the far left group Republicans portrayed them to be. Moveon.org was always against the war in Iraq and that war is on schedule to end.
Many Moveon.org members like myself were never against the war in Afghanistan. In fact Moveon.org endorsed Obama when he said he wanted to focus on Afghanistan because that was the real mistake in going to Iraq.
Whine all you want but the vast majority of liberals and progressives are behind the president. We don't have to agree with everything he does to support him.
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» Thanks Move On member for being a prime example of what I was just speaking about.
Posted by: Quist
» RE: KQuark, please explain why you support the war in Afghanistan
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: KQuark, please explain why you support the war in Afghanistan
Posted by: erjoell
» RE: KQuark, please explain why you support the war in Afghanistan
Posted by: MartinVeltjen
» RE: Wah Moveon.org is not attacking the president enough.
Posted by: shellius
» RE: I'm sick to death of frakkin' wars -- all of them
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Wah Moveon.org is not attacking the president enough.
Posted by: erjoell
» RE: Wah Moveon.org is not attacking the president enough.
Posted by: MartinVeltjen
» RE: Wah Moveon.org is not attacking the president enough.
Posted by: Tweck9
» Actually, its called "neoleft" or "neoliberal" which are right and left wings of the neocon .......
Posted by: Prophit
» Just got blocked at my other site from finishing posting this post.....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE:
Posted by: Tweck9
» RE: Actually, its called "neoleft" or "neoliberal" which are right and left wings of the neocon .......
Posted by: Tweck9
» Wow! A pro-War MoveOn ...
Posted by: AdamSelene40
» Just reading this above by KQuark, you can see the problem...
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: THANK GOD FOR TOM HAYDEN
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Health Care? MoveOn ignores single-payer :(
Posted by: Dolphyn
» RE: MOVEON needs to GROWUP!
Posted by: joeocho88
Comments are closed-
Posted by: richholland on May 27, 2009 1:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It happened to the socialists, to the Nazis, the Greens in Europe etc.
My fear for USA is that the Health Care revolution will NEVER happen, because Move On members are acting as sheep (all over the world, followers do this).
Step 1; protest, make sure you donot hesitate to take step 2.
step 2; quit. leave, go to another organization
but let everybody know it.
Donot expect an organization will solve your problems. Solve them with your friends, comrades, close family.
This is called responsibility for your own life.
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» More importantly, those of you who signed up should immediately....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE:SOMETIMES YOU ARE THE LAST ONE STANDING
Posted by: joeocho88
» I am desperately looking for a step 2
Posted by: noalternative
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Posted by: Christian Southern Liberal on May 27, 2009 2:13 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Taliban bans schooling for girls.
President Obama would not have started these wars.
We are the only nation with the capability of standing up for those on this planet who are being mercilessly slaughtered. The Taliban needs to be removed from Afghanistan, they are run by Arabs and not an indigenous group.
Iraq needs turned around. Halliburton/KBR has all of the contracts for everything over there, and is using Chinese and Indian slave labor. If there is to be peace in Iraq then the country needs turned around with actual Iraqis having the jobs. The USA destroyed that country, and I (for one) believe that we owe it to those people to rebuild their infrastructure, create jobs for Iraqis, use diplomacy to fairly divvy up the oil, split up the Halliburton/KBR corp into businesses that are owned and run by the people over there.
You are right that maybe we are not the ones who should be doing these things, but the USA is the only one who can.
If you have ideas of how peace can be achieved then write to our President and share those ideas. Merely pulling out of those areas will kill more civilians than staying there.
I also believe that we should make an effort to stop the slaughter in the Sudan, DR Congo region.
Afghanistan: Read "Three Cups of Tea" and then go to the website and donate.
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» Peace through slaughter
Posted by: kegbot1
» RE: The more the USA acts the world's cop the more it acts like the world's bully
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Taliban
Posted by: Tweck9
» A similiar argument was used to go to war with Iraq...well it was at least one of the arguments.
Posted by: Quist
» RE: Taliban
Posted by: tommy_slothrop
» Read my post above on "neocons" and see how they use religion...
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Taliban
Posted by: hilaryuk
» My comment today was taken off by Alternet.
Posted by: pfgetty
» More a slander than an embarassment
Posted by: brunowe
» Methinkgs thou doth protest too much, Brunowe!
Posted by: fsuthai
» You got the line wrong for starters
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Always thought something was wrong about that line.
Posted by: Reader in Japan
» "Christian" Comment
Posted by: login@bugmenot.com
» RE: IF THE USA GOES DOWN,THERE IS NOPLACE TO GO
Posted by: joeocho88
» RE: Taliban
Posted by: midwing
» RE: Taliban
Posted by: marysia
Comments are closed-
» So which is it, "thermite", "thermate" or "nanothermite"?
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: So which is it, "thermite", "thermate" or "nanothermite"?
Posted by: lively56
» So where is your evidence of the presence of nano-aluminum in your alleged "WTC dust samples"?
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: And you can't prove terrorists did it either
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Yes, and you believe Diane Feinstein sent Black Helicopters to "kidnap" you.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: I never said kidnap and there was only one
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Doesn't matter...
Posted by: Reader in Japan
» RE: Doesn't matter...
Posted by: tony_opmoc
» RE: Wow, Tony
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Still doesn't explain
Posted by: Reader in Japan
» RE: Still doesn't explain
Posted by: tony_opmoc
» RE: You never asked nicely
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Who do you "read" for, the CIA?
Posted by: fsuthai
» Thank you for your support, fsuthai, and thank you for thinking critically
Posted by: LeftWright
» Thank you for that, fsuthai.
Posted by: Centavo
» :) Centavo!
Posted by: LeftWright
» Good to see you, Centavo.
Posted by: pfgetty
» Thank you and likewise pfgetty.
Posted by: Centavo
» Yo PFGetty, when get done patting yourself on the back
Posted by: GuitarBill
» You've bitten yourself and gone mad...9/11 truthiness is...
Posted by: brunowe
» To a conspiranoid, "critical thinking" equals straw man arguments
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: I liked 'Sister_Lauren' better when she was just plain "Lauren"
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Doesn't matter...
Posted by: Reader in Japan
» RE: Saudi operatives tampering with Sis_Lauren's brother's computer?
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Guitar Bill, please stick with one identity, you get confusing when you post the same garbage....
Posted by: Prophit
» "Garbage"? So where's your "evidence" for nano-aluminum in the "dust samples"?
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: I never said kidnap and there was only one
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Yes, and you believe Diane Feinstein sent Black Helicopters to "kidnap" you.
Posted by: tony_opmoc
» Tony, do you have a link to that article... I would love it....
Posted by: Prophit
» Link in FT "The spinelessness and moral cowardice of the Obama administration"
Posted by: tony_opmoc
» Wouldn't the Mossad grab Hadji instead?
Posted by: brunowe
» Brown nose, Heritage foundation is on the phone for you....
Posted by: Prophit
» Plopped it, the voice in your head want you to slow down...
Posted by: brunowe
» Answer to why we are in Afghanistan? DRUGS TO FUND BLACK OPS...and gas pipeline...
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Please
Posted by: solrev
» RE: We are arguing for the rule of law
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Please
Posted by: tony_opmoc
» You forgot an important factor... we outnumber them thousands to one..... thus they do have to ....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Please
Posted by: GatoPreto
» RE: I wouldn't mind him falling for it so much
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» solrev - read what former FBI director Louis Freeh has to say about 9/11:
Posted by: LeftWright
» solrev – read what Senator Patrick Leahy has to say about 9/11:
Posted by: LeftWright
» solrev – read what former Senator Mark Dayton has to say about 9/11:
Posted by: LeftWright
» solrev – read what former Senator Mike Gravel has to say about 9/11:
Posted by: LeftWright
» solrev – read what former Senator Max Cleland has to say about 9/11:
Posted by: LeftWright
» solrev – read what 29-year CIA veteran William Christison has to say about 9/11:
Posted by: LeftWright
» solrev – read what 27-year CIA veteran Raymond L. McGovern has to say about 9/11:
Posted by: LeftWright
» solrev – read what 24-year CIA veteran Melvin Goodman has to say about 9/11:
Posted by: LeftWright
» solrev – read what former FBI translator Sibel Edmonds has to say about 9/11:
Posted by: LeftWright
» solrev – read what 24-year FBI veteran Coleen Rowley has to say about 9/11:
Posted by: LeftWright
» solrev – read what Lt. Col. Karen U. Kwiatkowski (ret) has to say about 9/11:
Posted by: LeftWright
» Thank you, LeftWright!
Posted by: fsuthai
» Thank you, fsuthai, wouldn't it be great if Alternet did a readers' poll on 9/11?
Posted by: LeftWright
» Yes, a big thank-you, LeftWright.
Posted by: Centavo
» You're very welcome and I can put you in touch with people there
Posted by: LeftWright
» Leftwright, have you heard this about the Olson call?
Posted by: Centavo
» Yes, I own and have read all of DRG's books
Posted by: LeftWright
» Re: On 9/11/06 I first heard then saw flashes and then saw the WTC tower floors pancaking
Posted by: Silverhawk
» Re: On 9/11/06 I first heard then saw flashes and then saw the WTC tower floors pancaking
Posted by: Silverhawk
Comments are closed-
Posted by: merrill on May 27, 2009 2:58 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Bush administration never saved any lives in USA and then went on their own killing spree in the mideast. The entire mideast was never a part of 9/11/01 and should not be treated as such.
The USA should buy oil and natural gas from the mideast not control or steal it.
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» To anyone truly interested in learning about the events of 9/11/01, here are some places to start:
Posted by: LeftWright
» RE:911 WAS A PRETEXT TO GRAB OIL AND OPIUM POPPY REVENUES
Posted by: joeocho88
Comments are closed-
Posted by: itsthemedication on May 27, 2009 3:14 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: American Jews in general are hawks on middle east war and the war drums are growing louder
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Jews vs. Mormons on the Iraq War
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: It is posts like this that make me laugh
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: The Heritage foundation troll, Guitar "Shill" stays busy
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: American Jews in general are hawks on middle east war and the war drums are growing louder
Posted by: itsthemedication
» RE: the Iran war drums are coming from Israel through Kristol, et. al.
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Gee, guess who controls the media??? LOL Kristol and the neocon owners of the press...
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Who do you think these neocons work for
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Private citizen Kristol, should not be involved in anyway in Our countries decisions...
Posted by: Prophit
» Your right, its not the "people", they want peace and fairness....
Posted by: Prophit
Comments are closed-
Posted by: richholland on May 27, 2009 3:18 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
it is common knowledge that 9/11 is partly orchestrated. What do you want???
USA people only do a thing when it makes money.
How much makes it when you know the truth re 9/11
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» RE: 9/11
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: 9/11
Posted by: jpAcosta
» RE: WHO IS TOM HAYDEN ANYWAY? MR. JANE FONDA, LOST IN THE 1960S.
Posted by: joeocho88
Comments are closed-
Posted by: remo on May 27, 2009 3:39 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What does it take for serious journalism to realize what is going on under their NOSES? The Government reached agreement not to tell the truth about what happened???????? So, alternet researchers, what does that MAKE the 911 commission report? What does that make the NIST report if NIST failed to mention their own deep involvement in nano-thermite technologies while 'just happening' to not investigate the 'possibility' of such nano-thermitic material being used that day?
Theres a blunt trauma LIE standing a thousand feet high right infront of us every day. Its called 911.the hijack conspiracy theory.
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» So, where's your evidence for the presence of "nano-aluminum" in the samples?
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Nuts, aren't you
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: GB's posted it before.
Posted by: Reader in Japan
» RE: GB is a fool
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: GB is a fool
Posted by: Reader in Japan
» RE: Payback for your highjacking of the boards
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Payback for your highjacking of the boards
Posted by: GuitarBill
» Lauren, that Japan guy is Guitar "Shill", ignore him, read what he said... you can tell who it is.
Posted by: Prophit
» "prophit", tell us about your other AlterNet account: "prophit0"?
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Lauren, that Japan guy is Guitar "Shill", ignore him, read what he said... you can tell who it i
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Brain-dead, aren't you?
Posted by: GuitarBill
» There is an old saying in zoo's.....If you don't want the monkey to act outrageous.... then...
Posted by: Prophit
» %^)
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: DON'T FEED THE MONKEY
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» I said nano-aluminum, not "aluminum".
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: I said nano-aluminum, not "aluminum".
Posted by: remo
» RE: I said nano-aluminum, not "aluminum".
Posted by: GuitarBill
» Correction. I hit the post button instead of edit.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» And where's your reliable source for nanothermite applications beyond detonation?
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: I said nano-aluminum, not "aluminum".
Posted by: GuitarBill
» Try Lawrence Livermore National Labs, GB
Posted by: LeftWright
» The article you present as "evidence" doesn't even mention "nanothermite".
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: The article you present as "evidence" doesn't even mention "nanothermite".
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: There is a blunt trauma LIE standing a thousand feet high right in front of us every day
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
Comments are closed-
Posted by: andyi99 on May 27, 2009 4:04 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: MoveOn as a steppingstone
Posted by: peterjkraus
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ExposeTheIsraelLobby on May 27, 2009 4:07 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
by Tom Hayden
Twenty-five years ago I stared into the eyes of Michael Berman, chief operative for his congressman-brother, Howard Berman. I was a neophyte running for the California Assembly in a district that the Bermans claimed belonged to them.
"I represent the Israeli defense forces," Michael said. I thought he was joking. He wasn't. Michael seemed to imagine himself the gatekeeper protecting Los Angeles' Westside for Israel's political interests, and those of the famous Berman-Waxman machine. Since Jews represented one-third of the Democratic district's primary voters, Berman held a balance of power.
All that year I tried to navigate the district's Jewish politics. The solid historical liberalism of the Westside was a favorable factor, as was the strong support of many Jewish community leaders. But the community was moving in a more conservative direction... Many in the organized community were suspicious of the New Left for becoming Palestinian sympathizers after the Six Day War; they would become today's neoconservatives.
(snip)
It is still painful and embarrassing to describe these events of nearly 25 years ago, but with Israel today again bombing Lebanon and Israeli officials bragging about "rolling back the clock by twenty years" and reconfiguring the Middle East, I feel obliged to speak out against history repeating.
How do I read today's news through the lens of the past?
What I fear is that the "Israeli lobby" is working overtime to influence American public opinion on behalf of Israel's military effort to "roll back the clock" and "change the map" of the region, going far beyond issues like prisoner exchange. (snip)
What I fear is the rehabilitation of the discredited U.S. neoconservative agenda to ignite a larger war against Hamas, Hezbollah, Syria and Iran. The neoconservatives' 1996 "Clean Break" memo advocated that Israel "roll back" Lebanon and destabilize Syria in addition to overthrowing Saddam Hussein. An intellectual dean of the neoconservatives, Bernard Lewis, has long advocated the "Lebanonization" of the Middle East, meaning the disintegration of nation states into "a chaos of squabbling, feuding, fighting sects, tribes, regions and parties."
This divide-and-conquer strategy, a brainchild of the region's British colonizers, is already taking effect in Iraq, where America overthrew a secular state, installed a Shiite majority and its militias in power and now portrays itself as the only protection for Sunnis against those same Shiites. The resulting quagmire has become a justification for American troops to remain.
read the rest at HuffingtonPost.com
Watch the following videos on the carving up of Iraq:
youtube.com/watch?v=u4MdyJDnSoI
youtube.com/watch?v=yp_iTR9dI6o
Watch the BBC documentary "The War Party" (part 1 of 5)
Watch the Dutch Tegenlicht documentary "The Israel Lobby"
Companion video Endgame: A Future Scenario for Israel
philipweiss.org
.
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» RE: MAYBE TOM HAYDEN AND MEL GIBSON CAN MAKE A HITLER FILM
Posted by: joeocho88
» RE: MAYBE TOM HAYDEN AND MEL GIBSON CAN MAKE A HITLER FILM
Posted by: troy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: greenferret on May 27, 2009 4:33 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Green Party, on the other hand, has been opposing the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan since before they started. If you're against war, it's time to get active in a party that shares your values.
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» RE: MoveOn is not anti-war, it's pro-Democrat
Posted by: Erin
» RE: MoveOn is not anti-war, it's pro-Democrat
Posted by: Tweck9
» RE: I can tell you a few nasties about the Greens
Posted by: navy-vet
» RE: I can tell you a few nasties about the Greens
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps
» Yes, right wingers would never masquerade as "left wingers" for the benefit of the GOP.
Posted by: GuitarBill
Comments are closed-
Posted by: obamapawn on May 27, 2009 5:00 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These people still believe that the government is basically good and is doing its best to protect and help people in this country and of course to spread democracy around the world.
An example of the naivety of the peace movement is the bumper sticker that says " War is not the answer".The peace movement actually thinks the best I could tell that this government wages war as a result of some mistake that they keep making over and over again.
The truth is that war is the answer for those who wage it, namely the military-industrial oil private central banking complex.
Until the people of this country wake up to the fact that the war on terror is based on lies and deceptions perpetrated by this complex. The government is completely complicit in carrying on this fake war on terror. As long as people believe that 9/11 was perpetrated by 19 Arab terrorists, they will believe in the war on Terror.
Until the progressive, informed people including all of the well-informed and well-intentioned journalists who keep referring to the current state of the affairs as being a huge mistake on the part of his government and wake up to the fact that the government is run by the military-industrial oil private central banking complex that has no other purpose than power and money.
The government of this country sold out to this complex many years ago.
go to www.911insidejob.net for many articles and videos.
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» Thats true and was confirmed by Eisenhower in his final address to the nation..
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: IKE and REAGAN - THE TWO LAST AMERICAN PRESIDENTS
Posted by: joeocho88
Comments are closed-
Posted by: tony_opmoc on May 27, 2009 5:09 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now if you check out the Big donors - and you read what they say they stand for, and the programs they support - you get a veneer - a facade of social respectability and responsibility. The appear to contribute significant sums to worthwile causes that do very useful work in places all over the World.
So you support them and you end up with Obama and you Celebrate. But you then check out what Obama actually does - rather than what he says.
You see the escalation of War in Afghanistan. You see the Words about Torture and compare them with the actions. You see the Financial System Crash.
You check out the real Background of those with the Big Money who are Dictating The Agenda. You discover how they obtained their enormous wealth, power and influence.
And they are different from the neocons - though their objectives are similar.
They want to do it in an even more evil and aggressive way. The objective is World Domination and Control - and that means the objectives go beyond control of the Middle East. The real objective is the isolation and control of China and Russia
BushCo just wanted control of the oil.
The Obamaboys want much more than that - they want control of the entire World. They will Bomb Pakistan and Afghanistan to hell to get it - and even further impoverish Americans to pay for it.
The end Result will be World War III and we will all Lose and the Cockroaches will inherit the Earth.
The only thing we can do, is point out the evil and stand up and shout. We are all sliding into the depths of depravity. It is our Governments that are doing this to us - controlled by exceedingly rich and powerful psychopaths.
Tony
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Posted by: earena on May 27, 2009 5:09 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Well that was cleverly timed
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Right, shame on Move on for misrepresenting what those responses were.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: It's the economy, stupid
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE:NO, TOM HAYDEN WANTS TO RELIVE HIS 1960s ANTIWAR GLORY DAYS!
Posted by: joeocho88
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Daito on May 27, 2009 5:19 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» He is going to destroy the youth of this nation and its future.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: And if WE decide to stop paying them our taxes...
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ABetterFuture on May 27, 2009 5:45 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nothing more to see here.
Business as usual.
Move along, citizen...
That's Change You Can Print, while Yes You Still Can! (pending the Chinese calling in the debts of this--our--debtor nation)
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» RE: CHINA IS GOING TO SEND THEIR MILITARY TO COLLECT FROM US
Posted by: joeocho88
Comments are closed-
Posted by: daw13 on May 27, 2009 6:24 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: They must receive more facts in support of reality
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
Comments are closed-
Posted by: grindermonkey on May 27, 2009 7:31 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: OK, I agree all that is true, so what do you DO about it
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
Comments are closed-
Posted by: navy-vet on May 27, 2009 7:41 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
MoveOn was NEVER "antiwar"! It was founded as online support for the 2004 national Democratic campaign. By 2005 it became pretty clear to a lot of us antiwar veterans that MoveOn was basically a money-raising arm of the Democratic establishment, focused on opening the wallets of liberal activists. Since I'm retired and have no spare change, I doubt that I ever sent them a dollar. Their "activist" meetings were largely ludicrous and useless, held indoors in people's homes, meeting halls, church basements or restaurants, often nothing more than using members as phone banks to call prospective voters, and guaranteed NOT to attract passers-by or large crowds. Their "democratic" polls seldom resulted in activism. Their "antiwar" claims were made strictly to attract antiwar voters and contributors. Clever!
Quite a few other activists came to the same conclusions. There were a few skeptical, even cynical, reports in the Indy online press. Back in 05 or 06, I told MoveOn to drop my name, which, after a struggle, eventually they did.
I was amused at MoveOn's righteous indignation when, in 2007, both parties in Congress raked into them for reasons I've forgotten and have no interest in recollecting. This was reported in all the alternate news services, and some writers seemed puzzled, which means they really believed that MoveOn was genuinely liberal. (It's hard tell if Tom Hayden still does.) Anyhow, I signed on again just to follow this hilarious story, since it was my not-really-paranoid belief that it was a cleverly cool cooked-up conspiracy between MoveOn and the DNC, to regain members MoveOn had lost. New members and old ones were needed to help gather liberal money and phone bank folks for the 08 campaign.
I guess it worked, since they regained me as a recipient of emails, although I sent no money. I've never bothered to sign out again, since, after the election, they haven't plagued us with HOURLY pleas for money. Generally I just delete MoveOn messages without reading more than the subject line, although I forwarded one of their online petitions a few weeks ago since the issue seemed urgent. Only a few of their causes are earthshaking, and there's no assurance a petition is even being sent to Congress. MoveOn is not trustworthy.
Whatver Obama wants Obama gets from MoveOn. We can read their stuff now and then, but NEVER send them money! We are much better off contributing to organizations we know are transparent, truly independent, and represent our convictions, not those of a political party. ANY political party--Dems, Repubs, Greens, Know-Nothings. Any.
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» RE: They really believed that MoveOn was genuinely liberal
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: They really believed that MoveOn was genuinely liberal
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: They really believed that MoveOn was genuinely liberal
Posted by: tony_opmoc
» RE: No, I have lots of experience being hacked
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» I believe you're refering to the "Gen. Be-tray-us" ad campaign
Posted by: LeftWright
» RE: THE ONLY REALPOLITIK IS MONEY
Posted by: joeocho88
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sherry on May 27, 2009 7:53 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Association with MoveOn can actually damage progressive causes and candidates. A friend of mine did their bidding for a year or so (the most absurd activity involved picketing outside a local Citgo --- I kid you not --- station). When that friend ran for local office, he found himself branded as a "MoveOn" activist and hasn't been able to shake the label.
MoveOn sent a rep to our town to "organize" us. We were already organized particularly around single-payer and anti-invasion-of-the-Middle East, but they condescendingly ignored that fact and told us they had thousands of MoveOn volunteers in our neck of the woods ready to join us. I refused but others did what they asked, and not one new volunteer materialized. Meanwhile, our local work suffered.
Progressive Democrats of America, for those who want to push Dems instead of apologize for them, are clearer and focused and honest.
In the long run, the Green Party has a platform that is clearly progressive and holds the advantage of having fellow Greens globally. The idea of national parties has always seemed counter-productive and provincial, to say the least.
MoveOn, however, is worse than national parties because we don't know what it is or who it is. I'm convinced its main objective is to keep us in line, quiet, and certainly not organizing third parties. Political prozac, if you will.
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» Don't trust the Greens either!
Posted by: navy-vet
» RE: Don't be a "true believer"
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Don't trust the Greens either!
Posted by: sherry
» How 'bout some facts to back those claims, sailor?
Posted by: antiapathy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Chuck23 on May 27, 2009 8:22 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on May 27, 2009 8:25 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...PARTY 'Gamesmanship' & PARTISANSHIP
...PERSONAL PROMOTION & CAREERS
perhaps you'd accomplish something worthwhile.
as it stands, all Corruption, Money & Power need do is find your selfish weakspots & fears...
& convince you that you CAN'T WIN UNLESS YOU GIVE UP WHAT'S IMPORTANT.
you've gotten suckered.
yet again.
but who suffers most?
Let's be honest NON-Americans *suffer more* because Americans always ensure they've protected themselves more than they protect those they abuse.
if you're "un-American", you're barely human.
Do Americans play *enough* binary team sports?
seriously.
The entire culture is focused around a 'zero-sum game' mentality
"Corruption is why we WIN!" & I'll be damned if Americans don't have a national knee-jerk belief that *somebody has to be dehumanized* so that Americans can win at all costs
unfortunately, that mindset pervades the national consciousness as well as BOTH political parties.
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Posted by: RegK on May 27, 2009 8:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The US still thinks it can run everyone else and always claims their interests entitle them to interfere in others' affairs.
People, let's MoveOn from MoveOn. They are holding us back from confronting the wars and the creeping police state apparatus the national security obsession has brought with it. Tom, how about launching 'Seniors for a Democratic Society'?!
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» RE: Let's talk about the other 9/11... good idea
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
Comments are closed-
Posted by: willymack on May 27, 2009 8:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Its tentacles are EVERYWHERE
It's beyond control
It's thoroughly amoral and EVIL
It cares not one whit for what the majority of us want, namely PEACE
It either buys off or scares off anyone who opposes it. Moveon is no exception
There will be NO END to war if it's allowed to go on as it has
We, the people, allowed this monstrosity to grow and prosper through ignorance, indifference, and self-interest. Only we can bring it to an end
We're doing a big, fat NOTHING to accomplish this.
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» Only we can bring it to an end, you say.
Posted by: Centavo
» RE: It is a cover up, expose it
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» I'm all for it. We'll just keep on keepin on!
Posted by: Centavo
Comments are closed-
Posted by: better vision on May 27, 2009 9:17 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When the king pins of the neo-con world make a decision, all the pawns get on the band wagon. They redefine water torture as enhanced interrogation. They call reducing EPA clean air standards the "clear skies initiative." They call clear cutting the forest, -forest fire prevention and sell it as the "healthy forest initiative." When they can't find wmd's they claim that Sad damn shipped them to Syria - let's invade them too!
After James Earl negotiated a closure of the plutonium processing plant in North Korea, they call Jong Il Kim part of the "axis of evil" and scare him into nuclear development. But through all the hateful, evil and inexcusable actions of the previous regime in Washington - the repugnant-cans stuck together.
Now come the Dems - "Obama broke his promise" -"move on is a bunch of neo-cons." "Excuuuuuse me." As a move-on member, a democrat and a White Anglo Saxon Protestant, Christian, I haven't changed my mind on anything. The overthrow of the Taliban was right, the invasion of Iraq was wrong. Torture is wrong, Bush Cheney and the gang should be on trial as war criminal, Pelosi knew all about it from the beginning. Obama can't do everything that everyone wants and do it all at once.
So go ahead - click on that little "1" and show me how appreciated my efforts to get control of Washington and my thoughts are.
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» RE: Attack each other
Posted by: cmaciain
» RE: Attack each other
Posted by: better vision
Comments are closed-
Posted by: weathered on May 27, 2009 9:22 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
America was mortally wounded on 9/11 and placed on a life support system of Lies - the buffoon gitarSpill is a 1-800 number of caustic distractions for which there are far too many.
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» RE: War of Mass Deception
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: War of Mass Deception
Posted by: tony_opmoc
» RE: You are too nice - and the bastards would make mincemeat of you
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
Comments are closed-
Posted by: brian boru on May 27, 2009 9:31 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bush was honest, unsophisticated and above all else stupid. He exposed America for what it is, a militaristic society where war has become a way of life and major American corporations engage in war for profit.
The USA is run on this war profit motive and presently all presidents will do the bidding of the war industry whether they are Republican or Democrat.
People were naive if they thought Obama would change anything in America's quest for war and it's profits. Obama is now a shill for American corporations who have waged war for over a hundred years.
We are dealing with the same people here we have been stuck with for more than a century.
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Posted by: PaulK on May 27, 2009 9:36 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do you want health care? The wars are where we got 300,000 vets with IED concussion problems, 250,000 vets with Gulf War Syndrome, and another pile of vets with various major parts of their bodies missing. Then the shameless liars got these same vets by the thousands to sign waivers that disenfranchised them from the VA health care system. That's where your single payer health care money will go, to pay for the war's offloaded costs.
Do you want the U.S. to live within its carbon budget? You guessed 'er, Chester. It's the war.
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» RE: War, who makes the money
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: War is interlinked with the other goals
Posted by: Johnny Hempseed
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Posted by: melpol on May 27, 2009 9:39 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: chlamor on May 27, 2009 9:59 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The death toll of the democrats is quite large:
Greek Civil War: 160,000 (Truman)
Korean War: 3 million (Truman)
Assault on Indochina: 5 million (started under Truman, accelerated under Kennedy & LBJ)
Coup in Indonesia: 1 million (LBJ)
East Timor: 100,000 (Carter)
Kwangju Massacre: 2000 (Carter)
Argentine Dirty War: 30,000 (mostly Carter)
Iraq sanctions: 1.5 million (mostly Clinton)
Turkish Kurdistan: 40,000 (mostly Clinton)
That's at least 10,8022,000 killed by democrats, 9,292,000 if one only counts the liberal governments (Clinton wasn't really a liberal). And this is just the tip of the iceberg; these are only the most famous incidents over the last couple of decades. If you add up the total from periods preceding this and the less famous incidents the number get much, much higher. If you add in starvation (a direct result of capitalism) it gets even higher.
Democrats could have stopped the congressional authorization for the Iraq war (via filibustering) but instead lots of them defected to the warmongers’ side. They could have stopped many of the nasty things the Republicans are doing by filibuster but choose not to. Many democrats actively supported the war. Most of those who did oppose it offered little opposition, chickening out when the shooting started and either abstained or voted in favor of the pro-war "support our troops" resolution in March. Even Dennis Kucinich, leader of the "anti-war" opposition in the house, abstained from the vote instead of voting against it. It was only after Bush's war started going sour that vocal criticism began to come from democrats, which is completely opportunistic. Bush's lies and fabrications about the Niger Uranium had already been exposed prior to the war, but it wasn't until after the invasion was completed and the democrats needed an issue to attack Bush with that they started whining about it.
The Democratic Party, the party of slavery, has a long history of mass murder and empire building. They are not an alternative to the American Empire. Especially on foreign policy, there is remarkable consistency between republican and democratic administrations. If the Nuremberg standards were applied every President since World War Two, both democrat and republican, would have to be hung. Both parties have the same basic goals; they just disagree on minor details. It would have been much harder for Bush to conquer Iraq (perhaps politically impossible) if Clinton hadn't been waging war against it for his entire term. The policies implemented by the US government have more to do with the specific circumstances of the time period then with which particular individual happens to occupy the white house. If a democrat is elected he will inherit this Pax Americana and it is unlikely that he would dismantle it (or even be capable of dismantling it). A vote for the democrats is a vote for imperialism and war (as is a vote for the Republicans).
Liberal Holocaust
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» RE: The Democratic Party has a long and bloody history. Democrats are imperialists and mass murderers
Posted by: tony_opmoc
» Pretty damn good page
Posted by: clresu
Comments are closed-
Posted by: patsy6 on May 27, 2009 10:43 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've moved on from MoveOn, and you can too if you feel they are no longer speaking for you. There are plenty of other grassroots organizations who are truly liberal and truly worthy of our support; People for the American Way, Progressive Democrats of America, True Majority, to name just a few. Perhaps even more worthy than that are the non-netroots groups, the local community organizations. We all have them, and they're right in our town. After all, that's really what grassroots is all about.
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Posted by: booboo on May 27, 2009 12:04 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Time is running out."
"But if not same old same old, what?"
"Mass uprisings."
"Leadership?"
"As in all mass uprisings?"
"Namely?"
"Everyone's a leader."
"Based on?"
"One equals one."
"Anything else?"
"Yes we can."
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Posted by: tony_opmoc on May 27, 2009 3:11 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A fundamental issue is that our current economic system is based on perpetual growth that in a finite world is not sustainable.
The solution our corporate elites have come up with is to smash it down and tear it apart. This involves mass destruction on a Worldwide scale. We've already had two World Wars and a Third One will probably be Terminal for the Human Race.
But that is the only way the elites think their economic model on which their power and wealth is based can be sustained.
But there are far better solutions that will benefit the whole human race and all life on this planet.
We need to find them by discussions that analyse all our problems objectively and without bias and refine solutions that will actually work.
We must first realise that we have been programmed by our leaders and the media they control with a mass of disinformation. Much of which we believe to be true will not only turn out to be false - but we will have been programmed with this disinformation for the specific purpose of causing conflict amongst us, and to hide what their real agenda actually is.
Acceptable solutions will not be based on violent revolution - that will simply be feeding the destruction agenda of tearing it all down - to hopefully rebuild it if society survives.
The elites are Globalists. The destruction of Nation states by Civil War - may actually be on their agenda. It's quite clear that impoverishment is on their agenda and its not just Third World countries. To assume these elites have any real loyalty to their countries of origin is a Big Mistake.
We are perceived by the elites as cannon fodder, landless peasents, slaves and useless eaters.
We need to Stand Up and Shout, To Challenge and To Discuss Solutions.
95% of us are on the same side and want the same things.
Its not a Right VS Left thing and violence is not a solution.
Tony
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» RE: Now you are speaking my language
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Read "How Nonviolence Protects the State" by Gelderlos
Posted by: clresu
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Garvagh on May 27, 2009 3:20 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: BlueTigress on May 27, 2009 4:12 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Pretty much all their e-mails ever tell me is that "_________ is bad! Can you send us money to combat it?"
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Posted by: weslen1 on May 27, 2009 4:55 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama talks of the other 16 or so countries who "harbor terrorists". Be prepared for many wars never ending. The Neocons have been repeating their terrorist mantra for so long, those of us who are still sane are losing ground. I see no hope for change at all.
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Posted by: DaBear on May 27, 2009 5:15 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yeah all that bullshit about two party lockouts and shit only makes continued sense in that progressives still consistently shoot themselves in the foot by drinking the owning class Imperial kool-aid. MoveOn is and always has been an owning class milquetoast ponzi scheme. Just read their "response" to Hayden's piece! Can you say owning-class excuse factory?! Jeebus, with pals like them who needs the Nazis?!
When the theater's on fire, it's wholly appropriate to yell fire and flee. When a bully is punching you in the gut and stealing your lunch money as the Dims have been doing consistently, the appropriate response is to stand up to the bully.
Now that Obama is selling us all down the owning-class river of Empire®, it's long past time for progressives to quit fucking around and get serious. You want Korten's Earth Community or you want to keep bending over to Empire?
Choose. This is war. Them against us. And it's on all levels. When your back's to the wall you don't go shaggin' the bully's pal who's cornering you to get out, you break out, stand up to them and fight. NO ONE is going to give progressives what we want, need, or must have. We. Must. Take. It. Ourselves.
End of sermon.
1789
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Posted by: AlwaysAskWhy on May 27, 2009 5:45 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
MoveOn has only been a NAIVE little band of internet nerds who have never, ever understood the core issues or the lengths to which the powerful rich will go to get what they want, including A WAR-FOR-PROFIT, WHICH IS MASS MURDER. Good at the technical aspects of whipping up a facility for speaking out, they have NEVER BEEN REAL LEADERS in the CAUSE FOR HUMAN LIFE, LIBERTY, PEACE, OR, SADLY, JUSTICE UNDER THE LAW. They completely and utterly ignored millions of us who demanded they lead on impeachment. I believe they did so so that THEY COULD RETAIN THEIR UNDESERVED POWER AND LITTLE MORE THAN FLACID INFLUENCE. MOVE ON IS JUST ANOTHER BUNCH OF SMALL MINDED POWER MONGERS, WHO ALSO CAVED IN TO FEAR.
MoveOn, through their incompetence (a bunch of guys who attained their highest level of incompetence, i.e., the Peter Principle) has led American Progressives astray, NO, DEVERTED THEM FROM their purpose and goals ... right down the yellow brick road. And American Progressives ("organizing liberals is like herding butterflies") followed them, WASTING PRECIOUS TIME, ENERGY AND EFFORT, WASTING LIVES, AND WASTING DEMOCRACY.
MOVEON, LIKE PELOSI AND THE OTHER COWARDS IN CONGRESS, LET AMERICANS DOWN AND, THEREFOR, AIDED AND ABETTED THE CONTINUANCE OF BUSH/CHENEY CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY AND OUR DEMOCRACY!
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Posted by: troy on May 27, 2009 6:39 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Shame.
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Posted by: Jeanne on May 27, 2009 8:08 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: badkitty on May 27, 2009 8:52 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
MoveOn has its place. I think a real anti-war movement will have to come from somewhere else, but I don't know where, since some of us have been obsessing about this since October 2001.
I really do not understand why it seems that every article gets swarmed by 9/11 conspiracy theorists. It's over! A group of people flew some planes into the World Trade Center and killed about 3,000 people (adults). Every single day about 3,000 people (mostly children) died of hunger and hunger related causes around the world. So maybe there was a conspiracy and maybe not, I really don't care. As a 59 year old, I can tell you that the government has lied about many things, and sometimes they get caught. But we have more important things to obsess on--ending two illegal wars, abolishing the Department of Defense, and trying to slow down climate change. Let's give MoveOn its place, remember that 9/11 was a classic guerrilla attack by the dispossessed (seriously, the powers that be have a pretty limited imagination, and probably did not come up with the idea to fly planes into buildings), and try to focus on a real anti-war movement.
Hey Tom, I miss the good old days in the Bateman neighborhood! Take care.
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» It's so much more than the 'numbers', badkitty!
Posted by: fsuthai
» RE: It's so much more than the 'numbers', badkitty!
Posted by: badkitty
» 9/11 created 9/11 "war on terror" & what followed based on a DC conspiracy theory CoverUp
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps
» RE: 9/11 created 9/11 "war on terror" & what followed based on a DC conspiracy theory CoverUp
Posted by: badkitty
» RE: A big thanks for a lucid response to a good article
Posted by: peterjkraus
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Posted by: Revolutionary (Direct) Democracy on May 27, 2009 9:13 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
FREE AMERICA
REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY
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Posted by: wormfarmer on May 27, 2009 10:41 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: halg on May 28, 2009 12:07 AM
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The Green Party believes in non-violence, and has been against this war -- and every war -- since it began. You won't find the GP or any (genuine) front for the GP endorsing or supporting war of any kind.
But you insist on staying loyal to your DP, if you must ...
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Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on May 28, 2009 3:24 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Tom Hayden was hardly engaging at an "attempt" .
What a load of rubbish from an org that claims to represent the rank and file of America over social justice, equality and the usual "Hope you can believe in" stand that Obama sold America on.
Of course Obama and Move On are both committed frauds and have been busted as such. Obama was the easier of the 2 to ID as a snake oil trickster with his support for domestic spying, Wall Street Bailout extortion and utterly cooked 9/11 "war on terror" of 1,000 LIES promoted on the proven coverup at 9/11 busted by Senator Max Cleland as well as Kean and Hamilton of the 9/11 "Commission".
No need to mention Obama's failed record on single payer healthcare and all the rest of his domestic kickbacks to the corporate monopoly that runs him and his puppet regime.
The common charade that Obama is a "centrist" with MoveOn has got to be at the bottom of the toilet tank when it comes to grotesque excuses. There is no "center" at a corporate monopoly Fascist state pretending to be a “democracy” run on “capitalism” when “democracy” DOES NOT EXIST any more than free markets do.
Obama was never an antidote for BushCo with both temp regimes run by the same international Bilderberg-CFR-Wall Street machine. In fact, Obama is the grotesque symbol of everything wrong with America: a jolly tinsel glib and glam play-actor pimped off on the nation to sell it out. In the end MoveOn appears just another propaganda tool and limited hangout front for organized corporate crime that brought us the meltdown, bailouts and utterly bogus 9/11 "war on terror".
Like the Washington-MSM circus, MoveOn has come down to one thing:
a Judas Goat.
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Posted by: Farasien on May 28, 2009 7:17 AM
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1. Put out some pseudo-populist ideas attacking the business and policymaking powerhouses.
2. Announce your intention to either A) run for office or B) form a PAC or some pseudo-entity that sounds like one (MoveOn, for example)
3. Scream and rant publicly making broad proclamations about what you're going to do to 'the bad guys' (business, the status quo, what-have-you)
4. Approach those same people you publicly attacked in step #3 and suggest you might be 'persuaded' to call off your attacks if you were given some 'support' in your public bid
5. Profit/get elected
6. Screw your original supporters while denying you ever said anything that you did in the beginning.
7. Shift your policy base to the center where the dumbasses live and give money reflexively.
8. Scrub, rinse and repeat.
I'm only 34 years old and I've seen it happen so many times, I can usually predict the winner in any political race now because of it. Learn some history, folks. We were conned from the beginning and until the corpses of politicians are rotting in the streets, it will never change.
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Posted by: aahpat on May 28, 2009 7:29 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
MoveOn.org has been totally silent about the authoritarian war on drugs that destroys millions of American lives, subsidizes crime and terrorism and is the legal basis for for the laws that eventually made up the Patriot Act.
MoveOn.org is a fraud! So too are the drug policy reform groups on America that do whatever and only what the white male dominated authoritarians in the Democratic Party leadership tell them to do.
THERE IS NO ANTI WAR MOVEMENT IN AMERICA!
The thug Democrats won't allow anyone to rock their boat.
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Posted by: aahpat on May 28, 2009 7:47 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The right-wing white leadership of the Democratic Party has talked out of both sides of its mouth ever since, espousing social justice and peace while only promoting and electing war mongers and racists.
MoveOn.org is simply the latest example of the DNC's ability to subvert and neutralize any and all social justice movements in America. The Democrats have perverted MoveOn.org to the craven political needs of the white right-wing dominated authoritarian Democratic Party.
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Posted by: Silverhawk on May 28, 2009 10:33 PM
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Posted by: JohnHKennedy Denver CO on May 29, 2009 5:19 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now a majority want Prosecution For Torture and the members are again being ignored.
BUT THE LEADERSHIP Milks Them For MONEY Regularly.
The only thing MoveOn represents is the power hungry influence peddlers at the top.
Ignore the MoveOn leadership. Stop giving them money.
And
If you do nothing else for your Country today,
SIGN THE PETITION To Prosecute Them For Torture at ANGRYVOTERS dot ORG
http://ANGRYVOTERS.ORG
Over 250,000 have signed
Join them and call yourself a Patriot
.
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Posted by: Beck on May 29, 2009 5:33 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe there would be even more comments but for all the pauses to self-backpat.
So does this really change the world for the better, or does it just make a little cyberworld appear changed?
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Posted by: charliemudcat on May 29, 2009 1:45 PM
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» RE: I seldom come to this site anymore
Posted by: badkitty
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Posted by: midwing on May 29, 2009 5:03 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If we don't do something about funding healthcare for all, we're going to have people dying on the streets. What a pretty sight that will be. We already have more homeless and starving people than we are willing to admit to- don't want other countries to know how bad things really are.
Midwing
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Posted by: NMDreamer on May 30, 2009 1:12 PM
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MoveOn staked its claim to moral authority with that move, and is now in no position to speak against Obama's policies unless they are willing to say that they backed the wrong candidate - or at least to say that the candidate they lauded so highly might be merely mortal after all.
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Posted by: prettyreplica on May 31, 2009 8:33 PM
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