Home
Archive
Newsletters
Video
Blogs
Discuss
About
Search
Donate
Advertise

Hayden Criticizes MoveOn for being Silent on Wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan; MoveOn Responds

By Tom Hayden, AlterNet. Posted May 27, 2009.


Peace activist Tom Hayden argues that most powerful grassroots peace movement isn't pushing Obama on U.S. wars. Update: MoveOn sends a response.

Share and save this post:

      

      

Share on Facebook       

AlterNet Social Networks:
follow us on twitter
find us on Facebook

In Special Coverage

Belief:
Is Blind Faith in God and the Bible a Modern Invention?
Devilstower

Corporate Accountability and WorkPlace:
What Can the Morass of the 1970s Tell Us About the Current Economic Crisis?
Alejandro Reuss

DrugReporter:
Lies About Marijuana Drive People to a Much More Harmful Drug -- Booze
Steve Fox

Environment:
Why Max Baucus' 'No' Vote on the Climate Bill May Really Help Its Passage
Jeff Mcmahon

Food:
Soda Helps Make Americans Unhealthy and Fat -- Will Soda Tax Prevail Despite Pushback by Beverage Industry?
Christine Spolar, Joseph Eaton

Health and Wellness:
Does the House Bill's Public Option Kill Off the Senate's?
Booman

Immigration:
Recent Democratic Victories May Grease the Wheels for Immigration Reform in Congress
Marcelo Balive

Media and Technology:
Focusing on Fort Hood Killer's Beliefs Is an Easy Out to Avoid the Deeper Reasons for the Massacre
Mark Ames

Movie Mix:
The Yes Men: Pranksters Out to Fix the World
Mark Engler

Politics:
What Obama Is Up Against in His Own Branch of Government
Russ Baker

Reproductive Justice and Gender:
"Precious" Star Claims the Spotlight
Emily Wilson

Rights and Liberties:
"Women Are Being Killed All Over the World": One Reporter's Fight Against So-Called "Honor Killings"
Robert S. Eshelman

Sex and Relationships:
9 Silly Things People Say When They Hear You Don't Want Kids (And Ways to Counter Them)
Liz Langley

Take Action:
G-20 Meetings: Nothing Much Happened in the Suites, and There Was Too Much Punch in the Streets
Laura Flanders

Water:
Radioactive Wastewater in New York Raises More Concerns About Oil Drilling
Abrahm Lustgarten

World:
Egyptian Marine: Soldiers Often 'Racialize' the Enemy to Cope With Stress
Aaron Glantz

More stories by Tom Hayden

Advertisement
Upcoming AlterNet stories on Digg

Editor's note: MoveOn has sent a response to Tom Hayden, which is published below his article.

The most powerful grassroots organization of the peace movement, MoveOn, remains silent as the American wars in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan simmer or escalate.

The executive director of MoveOn, Justin Ruben, met with President Obama in February, told the president it was “the moment to go big,” then indicated that MoveOn would not be opposing the $94 billion war supplemental request, nor the 21,000 additional troops to Afghanistan, nor the increased civilian casualties from the mounting number of Predator attacks. [See Ari Melber, The Nation, Feb. 27, 2009]

What was MoveOn’s explanation for abandoning the peace movement in a meeting with a president the peace movement was key to electing? According to Ruben and MoveOn, it was the preference of its millions of members, as ascertained by house meetings and polls.

The evidence, however, is otherwise. Last December 17, 48.3 percent of MoveOn members listed “end the war in Iraq” as a 2009 goal, after health care [64.9%], economic recovery and job creation [62.1%], and building a green economy/stop climate change [49.6%, only 1.5% ahove Iraq.] This was at a moment when most Americans believed the Iraq War was ending. Afghanistan and Pakistan were not listed among top goals which members could vote on.

Then on May 22 MoveOn surveyed its members once again, listing ten possible campaigns for the organization. “Keep up the pressure to the end the war in Iraq” was listed ninth among the options.

Again, Afghanistan and Pakistan were not on the MoveOn list of options.

Nor was Guantanamo nor the administration’s torture policies. “Investigate the Bush Administration” was the first option.

MoveOn is supposed to be an Internet version of participatory democracy, but the organization’s decision-making structure apparently assures that the membership is voiceless on the question of these long wars.

What if they included an option like “demanding a diplomatic settlement and opposing a quagmire in Afghanistan and Pakistan?”  Or “shifting from a priority on military spending to civilian spending on food, medicine and schools?”

This is no small matter. MoveOn has collected a privately-held list of five million names, most of them strong peace advocates. The organization’s membership contributed an unprecedented $180 million for the federal election cycle in 2004-2006. Those resources, now squelched or sequestered, mean that the most vital organization in the American peace movement is missing in action.

What to do? There is no point raving and ranting against MoveOn. The only path is in organizing a dialogue with the membership, over the Internet, and having faith that their voices will turn the organization to oppose these escalating occupations. The same approach is necessary towards other vital organs of the peace movement including rank-and-file Democrat activists and the post-election Obama organization [Organizing for America], through a persistent bottom-up campaign to renew the peace movement as a powerful force in civil society.

This is not a simple matter of an organizational oligarchy manipulating its membership, although the avoidance by MoveOn’s leadership is a troubling sign. There is genuine confusion over Afghanistan and Pakistan among the rank-and-file. The economic crisis has averted attention away from the battlefront. Many who voted for Obama understandably will give him the benefit of the doubt, for now.

Silence sends a message. The de facto MoveOn support for the $94 billion war supplemental reverberates up the ladder of power. Feeling no pressure, the Congressional leadership has abdicated its critical oversight function over the expanding wars, not even allowing members to vote for a Decmber report on possible exit strategies. In the end, a gutsy sixty voted against HR 2346 on May 14, but many defected to vote for the war spending, including Neil Abercrombie, Jerry Nadler, Obey, Xavier Becerra, Lois Capps, Maurice Hinchey, Jesse Jackson, Sheila Jackson-Lee, Patrick Kennedy, Charles Rangel, Lucille Roybal-Allard, Loretta Sanchez, Rosa De Lauro, Bennie Thompson, Jerry McNerney, Robert Wexler, and Henry Waxman. [Bill Delahunt, Linda Sanchez and Pete Stark were not recorded].

If there were significant pressures from networks like MoveOn in their Congressional districts, the opposition vote might have approached 85.


Digg!    Share on facebook   submit to reddit    Bookmark on Delicious   Stumble This  

See more stories tagged with: iran, iraq, moveon, afghanistan, grassroots, online, pakistan, peace movement, tom hayden

Tom Hayden was a leader of the student, civil rights, peace and environmental movements of the 1960s. He served 18 years in the California legislature, where he chaired labor, higher education and natural resources committees. He is the author of ten books, including "Street Wars" (New Press, 2004). He is a professor at Occidental College, Los Angeles, and was a visiting fellow at Harvard's Institute of Politics last fall.

Liked this story? Get top stories in your inbox each week from AlterNet! Sign up now »


Advertisement
Advertisement

 

Comments Turn comments off sitewide Give us feedback »
Comments closed.
The comments for this story have been closed. Thank you to everyone who participated.
View:
Becoming Neocons
Posted by: DrBrian on May 27, 2009 12:29 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A significant proportion of the progressive community is still in denial, rationalizing Obama's numerous, egregious betrayals and remaining silent on acts they once condemned when Bush was president. Even if they don't admit it, they have functionally become neocons themselves by supporting Obama unconditionally.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Becoming Neocons Posted by: shellius
Move On is still an apologist group for the Democratic party...so what would you expect?
Posted by: Quist on May 27, 2009 1:01 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Move On's stance on war, simplified...

Afgan War is the Dems/Obama's War which equals "good war".

Iraq War was the Repubs/Bush's War which equals "bad war".

As long as people keep blindly subscribing to a political party, they will blindly support their terrible policies...at least for the most part. BTW, this one of many reasons why I do not subscribe to one party or political group.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Wah Moveon.org is not attacking the president enough.
Posted by: KQuark on May 27, 2009 1:03 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Moveon.org is more interested in things like the healthcare debate now which will affect every American.

You forget Moveon.org stated to support president Clinton. Moveon.org was never the far left group Republicans portrayed them to be. Moveon.org was always against the war in Iraq and that war is on schedule to end.

Many Moveon.org members like myself were never against the war in Afghanistan. In fact Moveon.org endorsed Obama when he said he wanted to focus on Afghanistan because that was the real mistake in going to Iraq.

Whine all you want but the vast majority of liberals and progressives are behind the president. We don't have to agree with everything he does to support him.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Posted by: Tweck9
» Wow! A pro-War MoveOn ... Posted by: AdamSelene40
» RE: THANK GOD FOR TOM HAYDEN Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: MOVEON needs to GROWUP! Posted by: joeocho88
all over the world the same pattern
Posted by: richholland on May 27, 2009 1:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
once an organization means cash flow, political power and an income for the leaders it becomes a member of the system.

It happened to the socialists, to the Nazis, the Greens in Europe etc.

My fear for USA is that the Health Care revolution will NEVER happen, because Move On members are acting as sheep (all over the world, followers do this).

Step 1; protest, make sure you donot hesitate to take step 2.
step 2; quit. leave, go to another organization
but let everybody know it.

Donot expect an organization will solve your problems. Solve them with your friends, comrades, close family.
This is called responsibility for your own life.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» I am desperately looking for a step 2 Posted by: noalternative
Taliban
Posted by: Christian Southern Liberal on May 27, 2009 2:13 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Taliban lines women up in the soccer stadium and executes them. Those women never had a trial, never were allowed to defend themselves, they were merely accused of some offense. That offense might have been an action that is not a crime for a man to do, such as allowing another person to see your face.

The Taliban bans schooling for girls.

President Obama would not have started these wars.

We are the only nation with the capability of standing up for those on this planet who are being mercilessly slaughtered. The Taliban needs to be removed from Afghanistan, they are run by Arabs and not an indigenous group.

Iraq needs turned around. Halliburton/KBR has all of the contracts for everything over there, and is using Chinese and Indian slave labor. If there is to be peace in Iraq then the country needs turned around with actual Iraqis having the jobs. The USA destroyed that country, and I (for one) believe that we owe it to those people to rebuild their infrastructure, create jobs for Iraqis, use diplomacy to fairly divvy up the oil, split up the Halliburton/KBR corp into businesses that are owned and run by the people over there.

You are right that maybe we are not the ones who should be doing these things, but the USA is the only one who can.

If you have ideas of how peace can be achieved then write to our President and share those ideas. Merely pulling out of those areas will kill more civilians than staying there.

I also believe that we should make an effort to stop the slaughter in the Sudan, DR Congo region.

Afghanistan: Read "Three Cups of Tea" and then go to the website and donate.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Peace through slaughter Posted by: kegbot1
» RE: Taliban Posted by: Tweck9
» RE: Taliban Posted by: tommy_slothrop
» RE: Taliban Posted by: hilaryuk
» "Christian" Comment Posted by: login@bugmenot.com
» RE: Taliban Posted by: midwing
» RE: Taliban Posted by: marysia
This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
» RE: Doesn't matter... Posted by: Reader in Japan
» RE: Doesn't matter... Posted by: tony_opmoc
» RE: Wow, Tony Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Still doesn't explain Posted by: Reader in Japan
» RE: Still doesn't explain Posted by: tony_opmoc
» RE: You never asked nicely Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Thank you for that, fsuthai. Posted by: Centavo
» :) Centavo! Posted by: LeftWright
» Good to see you, Centavo. Posted by: pfgetty
» RE: Doesn't matter... Posted by: Reader in Japan
» RE: Please Posted by: solrev
» RE: Please Posted by: tony_opmoc
» RE: Please Posted by: GatoPreto
» Thank you, LeftWright! Posted by: fsuthai
Honeymoon is over - time to pull out and stop killing people. Move On step up to the plate!
Posted by: merrill on May 27, 2009 2:58 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
9/11/01 was the work of 15 terrorists who lived a few blocks from NSA headquarters under the command of General Hayden who never felt it was necessary to call in the FBI.

The Bush administration never saved any lives in USA and then went on their own killing spree in the mideast. The entire mideast was never a part of 9/11/01 and should not be treated as such.

The USA should buy oil and natural gas from the mideast not control or steal it.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

One Word, Israel
Posted by: itsthemedication on May 27, 2009 3:14 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do you for a second think Ruben is not influenced by AIPAC and Israel? He and Eli may have signed a Times ad for peace in 2003, but it's now 2009. American Jews have always been liberal on domestic issues, but Israel really wants a "rebirth" of the middle east along with the tried and true divide and conqueror strategy of facing off Shiite and Sunni. American Jews in general are hawks on middle east war and the war drums are growing louder over Iran. A $1 to Moveon is like a $ to AIPAC. Justin and Eli are listening to Jerusalem these days. Save your money. Moveon's peace platform may have been a lie from the beginning to bring in the left's money...

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Jews vs. Mormons on the Iraq War Posted by: Sister_Lauren
9/11
Posted by: richholland on May 27, 2009 3:18 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
in europe and asia people understand that the government never tells you the truth. Why should they.
it is common knowledge that 9/11 is partly orchestrated. What do you want???
USA people only do a thing when it makes money.
How much makes it when you know the truth re 9/11

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: 9/11 Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: 9/11 Posted by: jpAcosta
in the houses of shadow everybody lies
Posted by: remo on May 27, 2009 3:39 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
absolutely RIGHT! the wall of silence surrounding 911insidejob and its relevance to any discussion regarding the wars of aggression following amounts to OMERTA. The evidence of conspiracy from within mounts everyday.The wonderful DUST analysis that determines beyond doubt active thermitic materials present in the dust cloud. And reported April 14. 2009. senior counsel to the 9/11 commission - John Farmer- says that the government agreed not to tell the truth about 9/11, echoing the assertions of fellow 9/11 Commission members who concluded that the Pentagon were engaged in deliberate deception about their response the the attack. Farmer's book about his experiences working for the Commission entitled 'The Ground Truth: The Story Behind Americas Defense on 9/11' unveils how"the public had been seriously misled about what occurred during the morning of the attacks." and Farmer himself states that "at some level of the government, at some point in time...there was an agreement not to tell the truth about what happened"]

What does it take for serious journalism to realize what is going on under their NOSES? The Government reached agreement not to tell the truth about what happened???????? So, alternet researchers, what does that MAKE the 911 commission report? What does that make the NIST report if NIST failed to mention their own deep involvement in nano-thermite technologies while 'just happening' to not investigate the 'possibility' of such nano-thermitic material being used that day?
Theres a blunt trauma LIE standing a thousand feet high right infront of us every day. Its called 911.the hijack conspiracy theory.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Nuts, aren't you Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: GB's posted it before. Posted by: Reader in Japan
» RE: GB is a fool Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: GB is a fool Posted by: Reader in Japan
» Brain-dead, aren't you? Posted by: GuitarBill
» %^) Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: DON'T FEED THE MONKEY Posted by: Sister_Lauren
andyi99
Posted by: andyi99 on May 27, 2009 4:04 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I joined MoveOn during this 2008 campaign and worked hard to nominate and elect Obama. I also became a financial supporter of MoveOn. Then, MoveOn left me. It's as if the issue of the wars never existed. My involvement and financial support have waned. I believe in progressive causes but I also believe in finishing what we start.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: MoveOn as a steppingstone Posted by: peterjkraus
An article Tom Hayden wrote during the 2006 Israel-Lebanon war
Posted by: ExposeTheIsraelLobby on May 27, 2009 4:07 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Things Come 'Round in Mideast - July 23 2006

by Tom Hayden

Twenty-five years ago I stared into the eyes of Michael Berman, chief operative for his congressman-brother, Howard Berman. I was a neophyte running for the California Assembly in a district that the Bermans claimed belonged to them.

"I represent the Israeli defense forces," Michael said. I thought he was joking. He wasn't. Michael seemed to imagine himself the gatekeeper protecting Los Angeles' Westside for Israel's political interests, and those of the famous Berman-Waxman machine. Since Jews represented one-third of the Democratic district's primary voters, Berman held a balance of power.

All that year I tried to navigate the district's Jewish politics. The solid historical liberalism of the Westside was a favorable factor, as was the strong support of many Jewish community leaders. But the community was moving in a more conservative direction... Many in the organized community were suspicious of the New Left for becoming Palestinian sympathizers after the Six Day War; they would become today's neoconservatives.

(snip)

It is still painful and embarrassing to describe these events of nearly 25 years ago, but with Israel today again bombing Lebanon and Israeli officials bragging about "rolling back the clock by twenty years" and reconfiguring the Middle East, I feel obliged to speak out against history repeating.

How do I read today's news through the lens of the past?

What I fear is that the "Israeli lobby" is working overtime to influence American public opinion on behalf of Israel's military effort to "roll back the clock" and "change the map" of the region, going far beyond issues like prisoner exchange. (snip)

What I fear is the rehabilitation of the discredited U.S. neoconservative agenda to ignite a larger war against Hamas, Hezbollah, Syria and Iran. The neoconservatives' 1996 "Clean Break" memo advocated that Israel "roll back" Lebanon and destabilize Syria in addition to overthrowing Saddam Hussein. An intellectual dean of the neoconservatives, Bernard Lewis, has long advocated the "Lebanonization" of the Middle East, meaning the disintegration of nation states into "a chaos of squabbling, feuding, fighting sects, tribes, regions and parties."

This divide-and-conquer strategy, a brainchild of the region's British colonizers, is already taking effect in Iraq, where America overthrew a secular state, installed a Shiite majority and its militias in power and now portrays itself as the only protection for Sunnis against those same Shiites. The resulting quagmire has become a justification for American troops to remain.

read the rest at HuffingtonPost.com

Watch the following videos on the carving up of Iraq:
youtube.com/watch?v=u4MdyJDnSoI
youtube.com/watch?v=yp_iTR9dI6o

Watch the BBC documentary "The War Party" (part 1 of 5)

Watch the Dutch Tegenlicht documentary "The Israel Lobby"

Companion video Endgame: A Future Scenario for Israel

philipweiss.org
.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

MoveOn is not anti-war, it's pro-Democrat
Posted by: greenferret on May 27, 2009 4:33 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
MoveOn is not against killing people if a Democratic president says we're doing it. The function of MoveOn is to deceive progressives into joining the center-right corporatist Democratic party. They do this by pretending to be anti-war when Republicans are in power, then immediately dropping the anti-war posturing when a Democrat gets elected.

The Green Party, on the other hand, has been opposing the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan since before they started. If you're against war, it's time to get active in a party that shares your values.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Moveon Members Duped by 9-11 Officilal Conspiracy Theory
Posted by: obamapawn on May 27, 2009 5:00 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Many supposedly well-informed and good intentioned open-minded people, namely, for instance, members of Moveon do not believe that the government of this country has been controlled for many years by the military-industrial oil private central bank complex.

These people still believe that the government is basically good and is doing its best to protect and help people in this country and of course to spread democracy around the world.

An example of the naivety of the peace movement is the bumper sticker that says " War is not the answer".The peace movement actually thinks the best I could tell that this government wages war as a result of some mistake that they keep making over and over again.

The truth is that war is the answer for those who wage it, namely the military-industrial oil private central banking complex.

Until the people of this country wake up to the fact that the war on terror is based on lies and deceptions perpetrated by this complex. The government is completely complicit in carrying on this fake war on terror. As long as people believe that 9/11 was perpetrated by 19 Arab terrorists, they will believe in the war on Terror.

Until the progressive, informed people including all of the well-informed and well-intentioned journalists who keep referring to the current state of the affairs as being a huge mistake on the part of his government and wake up to the fact that the government is run by the military-industrial oil private central banking complex that has no other purpose than power and money.

The government of this country sold out to this complex many years ago.

go to www.911insidejob.net for many articles and videos.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

MoveOn is Controlled By BIG MONEY With No Morality
Posted by: tony_opmoc on May 27, 2009 5:09 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Grass Roots Progressives, The Peace Movement etc comprise largely of intelligent caring people with liberal values who want an end to War and a just fair society.

Now if you check out the Big donors - and you read what they say they stand for, and the programs they support - you get a veneer - a facade of social respectability and responsibility. The appear to contribute significant sums to worthwile causes that do very useful work in places all over the World.

So you support them and you end up with Obama and you Celebrate. But you then check out what Obama actually does - rather than what he says.

You see the escalation of War in Afghanistan. You see the Words about Torture and compare them with the actions. You see the Financial System Crash.

You check out the real Background of those with the Big Money who are Dictating The Agenda. You discover how they obtained their enormous wealth, power and influence.

And they are different from the neocons - though their objectives are similar.

They want to do it in an even more evil and aggressive way. The objective is World Domination and Control - and that means the objectives go beyond control of the Middle East. The real objective is the isolation and control of China and Russia

BushCo just wanted control of the oil.

The Obamaboys want much more than that - they want control of the entire World. They will Bomb Pakistan and Afghanistan to hell to get it - and even further impoverish Americans to pay for it.

The end Result will be World War III and we will all Lose and the Cockroaches will inherit the Earth.

The only thing we can do, is point out the evil and stand up and shout. We are all sliding into the depths of depravity. It is our Governments that are doing this to us - controlled by exceedingly rich and powerful psychopaths.

Tony

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Hmm well Move On did conduct a poll...
Posted by: earena on May 27, 2009 5:09 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Right after the inauguration Move On conducted a poll and asked its members to prioritize in order of importance what they should concentrate on and I guess the war took a back seat to the detrimental economic problems the U.S citizens are suffering. Shame on them for asking their constituents what they want!!!!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Well that was cleverly timed Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: It's the economy, stupid Posted by: Sister_Lauren
Move on is a joke
Posted by: Daito on May 27, 2009 5:19 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They have no soul, purpose or honesty. Their leadership is as corrupt as Washington itself. Face it, if moveon had any backbone they would be picketing Obama at every turn. This guy is setting us up for war on every corner of the globe. North Kores and Iran are about to explode and Afghanistan and Iraq are as busy as ever. So what is Obama doing? Well, date night is Friday. He's planning for that.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

What do you expect? They helped get their establishment pony in the White House.
Posted by: ABetterFuture on May 27, 2009 5:45 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mission accomplished.

Nothing more to see here.

Business as usual.

Move along, citizen...

That's Change You Can Print, while Yes You Still Can! (pending the Chinese calling in the debts of this--our--debtor nation)

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Moveon and Kos were never anti-war
Posted by: daw13 on May 27, 2009 6:24 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Neither Moveon nor Daily Kos have ever taken a strong anti-war stance. At the 2006 Historians Against the War Conference in Austin, the emphasis was strongly anti-war but unfortunately there was no willingness to discuss the fact that probably the largest organizations on the Left felt otherwise. Not to mention a large segment of the remainder of the public. Need for discussion about this rift should be top priority, it seems to me. My hypothesis: too many on the Left assume, whether they want to admit it or not, that however deplorable imperial repression may be, it will probably "work," in the sense of keeping U.S. citizens secure at terrible moral cost, while killing off much of the Third World. This assumption, however, is not well based. In fact, we are both morally and physcially at risk as a result of the mess our ruling class has gotten us into. Anyone who thinks Obama can reverse ruling class policy, however inept, without a strong public base is simply dreaming. Evidence tells us that the best way to mobilize the U.S. public is through appeals to their sense of physical insesurity more than through their sense of moral outrage. To feel more insecure, they must receive more facts in support of this reality. And reality it is. The facts, the truth is out there, if the Left will step up and expose it.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Divide the opposition
Posted by: grindermonkey on May 27, 2009 7:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Since Obama's success can largely be attributed to the internet, it only stands to reason that as the only source of dissent and reason in the US it would be one of the first to be compromised. The media is owned by the security apparatus of this country. It is the right arm of military madmen whose only source of revenue is the the state. Division, marginalizing, isolation and murder are their signature pathology. Once they stole all the money it all had to come to this; you know that. They have operated independently of the government since 9/11 and will continue until they defeat themselves. No happy endings, sorry.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

This peace veteran was disillusioned with MoveOn by 2005
Posted by: navy-vet on May 27, 2009 7:41 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'll tell you my opinion of MoveOn, and why it doesn't upset the administration's applecart, as long as it's a Democratic administration. And never will--unless it's a phony publicity stunt, a la the one of 2007.

MoveOn was NEVER "antiwar"! It was founded as online support for the 2004 national Democratic campaign. By 2005 it became pretty clear to a lot of us antiwar veterans that MoveOn was basically a money-raising arm of the Democratic establishment, focused on opening the wallets of liberal activists. Since I'm retired and have no spare change, I doubt that I ever sent them a dollar. Their "activist" meetings were largely ludicrous and useless, held indoors in people's homes, meeting halls, church basements or restaurants, often nothing more than using members as phone banks to call prospective voters, and guaranteed NOT to attract passers-by or large crowds. Their "democratic" polls seldom resulted in activism. Their "antiwar" claims were made strictly to attract antiwar voters and contributors. Clever!

Quite a few other activists came to the same conclusions. There were a few skeptical, even cynical, reports in the Indy online press. Back in 05 or 06, I told MoveOn to drop my name, which, after a struggle, eventually they did.

I was amused at MoveOn's righteous indignation when, in 2007, both parties in Congress raked into them for reasons I've forgotten and have no interest in recollecting. This was reported in all the alternate news services, and some writers seemed puzzled, which means they really believed that MoveOn was genuinely liberal. (It's hard tell if Tom Hayden still does.) Anyhow, I signed on again just to follow this hilarious story, since it was my not-really-paranoid belief that it was a cleverly cool cooked-up conspiracy between MoveOn and the DNC, to regain members MoveOn had lost. New members and old ones were needed to help gather liberal money and phone bank folks for the 08 campaign.

I guess it worked, since they regained me as a recipient of emails, although I sent no money. I've never bothered to sign out again, since, after the election, they haven't plagued us with HOURLY pleas for money. Generally I just delete MoveOn messages without reading more than the subject line, although I forwarded one of their online petitions a few weeks ago since the issue seemed urgent. Only a few of their causes are earthshaking, and there's no assurance a petition is even being sent to Congress. MoveOn is not trustworthy.

Whatver Obama wants Obama gets from MoveOn. We can read their stuff now and then, but NEVER send them money! We are much better off contributing to organizations we know are transparent, truly independent, and represent our convictions, not those of a political party. ANY political party--Dems, Repubs, Greens, Know-Nothings. Any.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

not so much on health care either
Posted by: sherry on May 27, 2009 7:53 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The second myth about MoveOn is that they support national health care. They do not, in fact, when SiCKO first hit the theatres they urged members to leaflet in a way that worked against national health care. Working for HR 676, single-payer, I saw MoveOn clearly as part of the corporate opposition.

Association with MoveOn can actually damage progressive causes and candidates. A friend of mine did their bidding for a year or so (the most absurd activity involved picketing outside a local Citgo --- I kid you not --- station). When that friend ran for local office, he found himself branded as a "MoveOn" activist and hasn't been able to shake the label.

MoveOn sent a rep to our town to "organize" us. We were already organized particularly around single-payer and anti-invasion-of-the-Middle East, but they condescendingly ignored that fact and told us they had thousands of MoveOn volunteers in our neck of the woods ready to join us. I refused but others did what they asked, and not one new volunteer materialized. Meanwhile, our local work suffered.

Progressive Democrats of America, for those who want to push Dems instead of apologize for them, are clearer and focused and honest.

In the long run, the Green Party has a platform that is clearly progressive and holds the advantage of having fellow Greens globally. The idea of national parties has always seemed counter-productive and provincial, to say the least.

MoveOn, however, is worse than national parties because we don't know what it is or who it is. I'm convinced its main objective is to keep us in line, quiet, and certainly not organizing third parties. Political prozac, if you will.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Don't trust the Greens either! Posted by: navy-vet
» RE: Don't be a "true believer" Posted by: Sister_Lauren
Business as Usual for MoveOn
Posted by: Chuck23 on May 27, 2009 8:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is not a surprise. MoveOn is essentially a fundraising arm for mainstream Democrats, most of whom support American imperialism and American's "right" to wage war against any nation at any time. That's why I quit MoveOn a few years back. During the primaries MoveOn could have supported an authentic peace candidate like Dennis Kucinich, and the organization's support might have allowed Kucinich to stay in the race and keep the issue of war and imperialism as part of the debate. Instead it opted to support a candidate who openly advocated war with Afghanistan and Pakistan. MoveOn essentially has no credibility as a "peace" group. Anyone interested in working for peace should support Peace Action instead.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

If American activists cared about ETHICS as much as
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on May 27, 2009 8:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...NATIONALISM
...PARTY 'Gamesmanship' & PARTISANSHIP
...PERSONAL PROMOTION & CAREERS

perhaps you'd accomplish something worthwhile.

as it stands, all Corruption, Money & Power need do is find your selfish weakspots & fears...

& convince you that you CAN'T WIN UNLESS YOU GIVE UP WHAT'S IMPORTANT.

you've gotten suckered.

yet again.
but who suffers most?

Let's be honest NON-Americans *suffer more* because Americans always ensure they've protected themselves more than they protect those they abuse.
if you're "un-American", you're barely human.

Do Americans play *enough* binary team sports?
seriously.

The entire culture is focused around a 'zero-sum game' mentality

"Corruption is why we WIN!" & I'll be damned if Americans don't have a national knee-jerk belief that *somebody has to be dehumanized* so that Americans can win at all costs

unfortunately, that mindset pervades the national consciousness as well as BOTH political parties.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Let's talk about the other 9/11...
Posted by: RegK on May 27, 2009 8:37 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...the day in 1973 that the CIA overthrew Allende and installed a fascist regime in that country.

The US still thinks it can run everyone else and always claims their interests entitle them to interfere in others' affairs.

People, let's MoveOn from MoveOn. They are holding us back from confronting the wars and the creeping police state apparatus the national security obsession has brought with it. Tom, how about launching 'Seniors for a Democratic Society'?!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Giant octopus
Posted by: willymack on May 27, 2009 8:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The military/industrial complex-you know, the one outgoing President Eisenhower warned us about in 1961-has come into full flower.
Its tentacles are EVERYWHERE
It's beyond control
It's thoroughly amoral and EVIL
It cares not one whit for what the majority of us want, namely PEACE
It either buys off or scares off anyone who opposes it. Moveon is no exception
There will be NO END to war if it's allowed to go on as it has
We, the people, allowed this monstrosity to grow and prosper through ignorance, indifference, and self-interest. Only we can bring it to an end
We're doing a big, fat NOTHING to accomplish this.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: It is a cover up, expose it Posted by: Sister_Lauren
Attack each other
Posted by: better vision on May 27, 2009 9:17 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The problem with democrats is that they all have minds of their own. They rally together and defeat the evil empire of King George II and his band of "evil doers" only to be left with a majority in both houses of congress and control of the White House. Gee -- What will we do now. I know - let's attack each other.

When the king pins of the neo-con world make a decision, all the pawns get on the band wagon. They redefine water torture as enhanced interrogation. They call reducing EPA clean air standards the "clear skies initiative." They call clear cutting the forest, -forest fire prevention and sell it as the "healthy forest initiative." When they can't find wmd's they claim that Sad damn shipped them to Syria - let's invade them too!

After James Earl negotiated a closure of the plutonium processing plant in North Korea, they call Jong Il Kim part of the "axis of evil" and scare him into nuclear development. But through all the hateful, evil and inexcusable actions of the previous regime in Washington - the repugnant-cans stuck together.

Now come the Dems - "Obama broke his promise" -"move on is a bunch of neo-cons." "Excuuuuuse me." As a move-on member, a democrat and a White Anglo Saxon Protestant, Christian, I haven't changed my mind on anything. The overthrow of the Taliban was right, the invasion of Iraq was wrong. Torture is wrong, Bush Cheney and the gang should be on trial as war criminal, Pelosi knew all about it from the beginning. Obama can't do everything that everyone wants and do it all at once.

So go ahead - click on that little "1" and show me how appreciated my efforts to get control of Washington and my thoughts are.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Attack each other Posted by: cmaciain
» RE: Attack each other Posted by: better vision
War of Mass Deception
Posted by: weathered on May 27, 2009 9:22 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
MoveOn gave a sliver of hope that WE might impart change when what it really provided was bread and circuses for the Volvo wagon crowd.

America was mortally wounded on 9/11 and placed on a life support system of Lies - the buffoon gitarSpill is a 1-800 number of caustic distractions for which there are far too many.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: War of Mass Deception Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: War of Mass Deception Posted by: tony_opmoc
BLIND FAITH OF OBAMA LOVERS
Posted by: brian boru on May 27, 2009 9:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The world supported the photogenic Obama because Bush was a disaster as president.
Bush was honest, unsophisticated and above all else stupid. He exposed America for what it is, a militaristic society where war has become a way of life and major American corporations engage in war for profit.
The USA is run on this war profit motive and presently all presidents will do the bidding of the war industry whether they are Republican or Democrat.
People were naive if they thought Obama would change anything in America's quest for war and it's profits. Obama is now a shill for American corporations who have waged war for over a hundred years.
We are dealing with the same people here we have been stuck with for more than a century.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

War is interlinked with the other goals
Posted by: PaulK on May 27, 2009 9:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do you want economic recovery? The Iraq occupation, Afghanistan occupation and Pakistan covert occupation is where all the money went.

Do you want health care? The wars are where we got 300,000 vets with IED concussion problems, 250,000 vets with Gulf War Syndrome, and another pile of vets with various major parts of their bodies missing. Then the shameless liars got these same vets by the thousands to sign waivers that disenfranchised them from the VA health care system. That's where your single payer health care money will go, to pay for the war's offloaded costs.

Do you want the U.S. to live within its carbon budget? You guessed 'er, Chester. It's the war.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: War, who makes the money Posted by: Sister_Lauren
Moving In to North Korea
Posted by: melpol on May 27, 2009 9:39 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Millions of threatening forces might be placed along the Yalu River ready to cross over into China if the two Koreas unite. American missiles and air bases will have a legitimate reason to be stationed along the Chinese and northern borders of Korea. This is the reason that The Chinese government does not want peace in the region. It will not pressure North Korea to give up their bombs unless they can be sure that the two Koreas remain divided.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The Democratic Party has a long and bloody history. Democrats are imperialists and mass murderers
Posted by: chlamor on May 27, 2009 9:59 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Many people involved in US anti-war movement(s) have this naive belief that Democrats are not imperialists, that US imperialist policies, such as those pursued by the Bush administration, are just a recent deviation or limited to Republican administrations. In fact, the Democratic Party has a long and bloody history of imperialism. Democrats are imperialists and mass murderers. Nor is this limited to the more conservative democrats; left-liberals have done the same. Liberal governments have slaughtered millions.

The death toll of the democrats is quite large:

Greek Civil War: 160,000 (Truman)
Korean War: 3 million (Truman)
Assault on Indochina: 5 million (started under Truman, accelerated under Kennedy & LBJ)
Coup in Indonesia: 1 million (LBJ)
East Timor: 100,000 (Carter)
Kwangju Massacre: 2000 (Carter)
Argentine Dirty War: 30,000 (mostly Carter)
Iraq sanctions: 1.5 million (mostly Clinton)
Turkish Kurdistan: 40,000 (mostly Clinton)

That's at least 10,8022,000 killed by democrats, 9,292,000 if one only counts the liberal governments (Clinton wasn't really a liberal). And this is just the tip of the iceberg; these are only the most famous incidents over the last couple of decades. If you add up the total from periods preceding this and the less famous incidents the number get much, much higher. If you add in starvation (a direct result of capitalism) it gets even higher.

Democrats could have stopped the congressional authorization for the Iraq war (via filibustering) but instead lots of them defected to the warmongers’ side. They could have stopped many of the nasty things the Republicans are doing by filibuster but choose not to. Many democrats actively supported the war. Most of those who did oppose it offered little opposition, chickening out when the shooting started and either abstained or voted in favor of the pro-war "support our troops" resolution in March. Even Dennis Kucinich, leader of the "anti-war" opposition in the house, abstained from the vote instead of voting against it. It was only after Bush's war started going sour that vocal criticism began to come from democrats, which is completely opportunistic. Bush's lies and fabrications about the Niger Uranium had already been exposed prior to the war, but it wasn't until after the invasion was completed and the democrats needed an issue to attack Bush with that they started whining about it.

The Democratic Party, the party of slavery, has a long history of mass murder and empire building. They are not an alternative to the American Empire. Especially on foreign policy, there is remarkable consistency between republican and democratic administrations. If the Nuremberg standards were applied every President since World War Two, both democrat and republican, would have to be hung. Both parties have the same basic goals; they just disagree on minor details. It would have been much harder for Bush to conquer Iraq (perhaps politically impossible) if Clinton hadn't been waging war against it for his entire term. The policies implemented by the US government have more to do with the specific circumstances of the time period then with which particular individual happens to occupy the white house. If a democrat is elected he will inherit this Pax Americana and it is unlikely that he would dismantle it (or even be capable of dismantling it). A vote for the democrats is a vote for imperialism and war (as is a vote for the Republicans).

Liberal Holocaust

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Pretty damn good page Posted by: clresu
Let's Move On From MoveOn
Posted by: patsy6 on May 27, 2009 10:43 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you, Tom Hayden! Your article is right on point, as usual. MoveOn served an important purpose when they first started, showing grassroots net activists the way. I first got on board with them during their campaign against the nomination of John Ashcroft as attorney general. But somewhere along the line MoveOn lost its way. I realize, of course, that MoveOn was started as a reaction to the Clinton impeachment, and that its founders were Clinton supporters. However, MoveOn lost me, a New York resident, when they practically fell all over Ned Lamont in his bid to unseat tail gunner Joe Lieberman in the CT Democratic senatorial primary in 2006, yet at the very same time they wouldn't give the New York anti-war candidate, Jonathan Tasini, the time of day in his senatorial primary campaign against their friend, the hawkish Hillary Clinton, who voted for the Iraq war and who has never admitted that that vote may have been a mistake on her part.

I've moved on from MoveOn, and you can too if you feel they are no longer speaking for you. There are plenty of other grassroots organizations who are truly liberal and truly worthy of our support; People for the American Way, Progressive Democrats of America, True Majority, to name just a few. Perhaps even more worthy than that are the non-netroots groups, the local community organizations. We all have them, and they're right in our town. After all, that's really what grassroots is all about.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Same Old Same Old = Doomsday
Posted by: booboo on May 27, 2009 12:04 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Why is this?"

"Time is running out."

"But if not same old same old, what?"

"Mass uprisings."

"Leadership?"

"As in all mass uprisings?"

"Namely?"

"Everyone's a leader."

"Based on?"

"One equals one."

"Anything else?"

"Yes we can."

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The Only Way To Move Forward Is To Challenge The Ruling Elite With Better Solutions To Problems
Posted by: tony_opmoc on May 27, 2009 3:11 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First of all we need to objectively analyse what the real problems are.

A fundamental issue is that our current economic system is based on perpetual growth that in a finite world is not sustainable.

The solution our corporate elites have come up with is to smash it down and tear it apart. This involves mass destruction on a Worldwide scale. We've already had two World Wars and a Third One will probably be Terminal for the Human Race.

But that is the only way the elites think their economic model on which their power and wealth is based can be sustained.

But there are far better solutions that will benefit the whole human race and all life on this planet.

We need to find them by discussions that analyse all our problems objectively and without bias and refine solutions that will actually work.

We must first realise that we have been programmed by our leaders and the media they control with a mass of disinformation. Much of which we believe to be true will not only turn out to be false - but we will have been programmed with this disinformation for the specific purpose of causing conflict amongst us, and to hide what their real agenda actually is.

Acceptable solutions will not be based on violent revolution - that will simply be feeding the destruction agenda of tearing it all down - to hopefully rebuild it if society survives.

The elites are Globalists. The destruction of Nation states by Civil War - may actually be on their agenda. It's quite clear that impoverishment is on their agenda and its not just Third World countries. To assume these elites have any real loyalty to their countries of origin is a Big Mistake.

We are perceived by the elites as cannon fodder, landless peasents, slaves and useless eaters.

We need to Stand Up and Shout, To Challenge and To Discuss Solutions.

95% of us are on the same side and want the same things.

Its not a Right VS Left thing and violence is not a solution.

Tony

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Now you are speaking my language Posted by: Sister_Lauren
Endless war, and tacit encouragement of Israeli attack on Iran
Posted by: Garvagh on May 27, 2009 3:20 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bravo, Tom Hayden! The continuing idiocy of squandering hundreds of billions of dollars on the Afghan and Iraq quagmires should be only too obvious. Iraq will achieve true stability only after the US gets its troops out of the oountry. US military activities in Afghanistan have only made things worse. Time to get ready to pull US forces out of Central Asia entirely. Iran and Russia should take the lead in working out how best to reduce the level of violence in Afghanistan.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Since when is MoveOn a peace organization?
Posted by: BlueTigress on May 27, 2009 4:12 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As I understand it, they were organized to keep liberals "moving on" after the Clinton presidency.

Pretty much all their e-mails ever tell me is that "_________ is bad! Can you send us money to combat it?"

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

More of the same different faces.
Posted by: weslen1 on May 27, 2009 4:55 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Dems voted en bloc against funding to close Guantanamo, having fallen for the "terrorist" label put on the prisoners and voted en bloc to continue funding Iraq and to escalate Afghanistan and the illegal raids of the nuclear armed Pakistan.
Obama talks of the other 16 or so countries who "harbor terrorists". Be prepared for many wars never ending. The Neocons have been repeating their terrorist mantra for so long, those of us who are still sane are losing ground. I see no hope for change at all.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Meanwhile back in the real world, the Green Party is still speaking truth to power
Posted by: DaBear on May 27, 2009 5:15 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Progressives need to pick up the clue-phone and join the ONLY party that has a progressive platform, vision and practice: The Greens.

Yeah all that bullshit about two party lockouts and shit only makes continued sense in that progressives still consistently shoot themselves in the foot by drinking the owning class Imperial kool-aid. MoveOn is and always has been an owning class milquetoast ponzi scheme. Just read their "response" to Hayden's piece! Can you say owning-class excuse factory?! Jeebus, with pals like them who needs the Nazis?!

When the theater's on fire, it's wholly appropriate to yell fire and flee. When a bully is punching you in the gut and stealing your lunch money as the Dims have been doing consistently, the appropriate response is to stand up to the bully.

Now that Obama is selling us all down the owning-class river of Empire®, it's long past time for progressives to quit fucking around and get serious. You want Korten's Earth Community or you want to keep bending over to Empire?

Choose. This is war. Them against us. And it's on all levels. When your back's to the wall you don't go shaggin' the bully's pal who's cornering you to get out, you break out, stand up to them and fight. NO ONE is going to give progressives what we want, need, or must have. We. Must. Take. It. Ourselves.

End of sermon.

1789

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

MOVE-ON HAS ALWAYS BEEN MISSING IN ACTION!
Posted by: AlwaysAskWhy on May 27, 2009 5:45 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
MOVE-ON HAS ALWAYS BEEN MISSING IN ACTION!

MoveOn has only been a NAIVE little band of internet nerds who have never, ever understood the core issues or the lengths to which the powerful rich will go to get what they want, including A WAR-FOR-PROFIT, WHICH IS MASS MURDER. Good at the technical aspects of whipping up a facility for speaking out, they have NEVER BEEN REAL LEADERS in the CAUSE FOR HUMAN LIFE, LIBERTY, PEACE, OR, SADLY, JUSTICE UNDER THE LAW. They completely and utterly ignored millions of us who demanded they lead on impeachment. I believe they did so so that THEY COULD RETAIN THEIR UNDESERVED POWER AND LITTLE MORE THAN FLACID INFLUENCE. MOVE ON IS JUST ANOTHER BUNCH OF SMALL MINDED POWER MONGERS, WHO ALSO CAVED IN TO FEAR.

MoveOn, through their incompetence (a bunch of guys who attained their highest level of incompetence, i.e., the Peter Principle) has led American Progressives astray, NO, DEVERTED THEM FROM their purpose and goals ... right down the yellow brick road. And American Progressives ("organizing liberals is like herding butterflies") followed them, WASTING PRECIOUS TIME, ENERGY AND EFFORT, WASTING LIVES, AND WASTING DEMOCRACY.

MOVEON, LIKE PELOSI AND THE OTHER COWARDS IN CONGRESS, LET AMERICANS DOWN AND, THEREFOR, AIDED AND ABETTED THE CONTINUANCE OF BUSH/CHENEY CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY AND OUR DEMOCRACY!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Hayden is essentially right
Posted by: troy on May 27, 2009 6:39 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A rather weak rebuttal from MoveOn. That they chose to "go big" on energy, etc. was indeed a "we won't stand in your way" statement regarding the wars.

Shame.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

To the point
Posted by: Jeanne on May 27, 2009 8:08 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would agree that MoveOn has been strangely quiet these past few months. I was used to daily (nearly) email calls to action against the Bush Administration. I can't recall the last email I've received from them. Obama has done (or not done) plenty to deserve his chain be yanked. There are way too many back pedals and not-exactlies in the administration of "hope". The Obama administration has been behaving more and more like his predecessor. Defending torturers, obstructing the Plame lawsuit, weak on health care, too ready to extend our military presence in Iraq and Afghanistan.... There is plenty still to be disgruntled about; and a lot of promises made during the campaign that remain unfulfilled.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

A big thanks!
Posted by: badkitty on May 27, 2009 8:52 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A big thanks to Tom for this article. Of course, he is perhaps older than many of the people fixated on 9/11, and he recalls Vietnam and how we got there and how it ended better than most people, especially those born after 1955. If we want to make progress against climate change, have medical coverage for all, improve education, etc., we need to stop fighting illegal wars. Furthermore, Vietnam nearly destroyed the army (not that I think we need it) and country. Afghanistan and Iraq will finish us off.

MoveOn has its place. I think a real anti-war movement will have to come from somewhere else, but I don't know where, since some of us have been obsessing about this since October 2001.

I really do not understand why it seems that every article gets swarmed by 9/11 conspiracy theorists. It's over! A group of people flew some planes into the World Trade Center and killed about 3,000 people (adults). Every single day about 3,000 people (mostly children) died of hunger and hunger related causes around the world. So maybe there was a conspiracy and maybe not, I really don't care. As a 59 year old, I can tell you that the government has lied about many things, and sometimes they get caught. But we have more important things to obsess on--ending two illegal wars, abolishing the Department of Defense, and trying to slow down climate change. Let's give MoveOn its place, remember that 9/11 was a classic guerrilla attack by the dispossessed (seriously, the powers that be have a pretty limited imagination, and probably did not come up with the idea to fly planes into buildings), and try to focus on a real anti-war movement.

Hey Tom, I miss the good old days in the Bateman neighborhood! Take care.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Why?
Posted by: Revolutionary (Direct) Democracy on May 27, 2009 9:13 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If MoveOn and AlterNet et al are so goddamned effective, why does America continue to slide into corporate fascism?


FREE AMERICA

REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Nonsense!!!!!!!!
Posted by: wormfarmer on May 27, 2009 10:41 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What is the objective here? To insult people of different opinions, or to display the lack of knowledge by distracted masses. The common goal should be a legacy of peaceful co-existence for our succeeding generations, to clean up our mess, not continue the same profit pursuit of business. We're stuck on a hamster wheel of insanity not a goal of peace, which we should be kicking Obama to pursue. One of his statements was that if the people wanted change, push him in that direction!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Surprise, surprise!
Posted by: halg on May 28, 2009 12:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Who would have thought that a kindly Democratic Party front group would become hostile to peace efforts?

The Green Party believes in non-violence, and has been against this war -- and every war -- since it began. You won't find the GP or any (genuine) front for the GP endorsing or supporting war of any kind.

But you insist on staying loyal to your DP, if you must ...

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

A Load of empty Bollocks from MoveOn
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on May 28, 2009 3:24 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"We appreciate Tom Hayden's attempt to start a discussion here about the progressive posture on security issues, and we even understand his attempt to use MoveOn as a foil."

Tom Hayden was hardly engaging at an "attempt" .

What a load of rubbish from an org that claims to represent the rank and file of America over social justice, equality and the usual "Hope you can believe in" stand that Obama sold America on.

Of course Obama and Move On are both committed frauds and have been busted as such. Obama was the easier of the 2 to ID as a snake oil trickster with his support for domestic spying, Wall Street Bailout extortion and utterly cooked 9/11 "war on terror" of 1,000 LIES promoted on the proven coverup at 9/11 busted by Senator Max Cleland as well as Kean and Hamilton of the 9/11 "Commission".

No need to mention Obama's failed record on single payer healthcare and all the rest of his domestic kickbacks to the corporate monopoly that runs him and his puppet regime.

The common charade that Obama is a "centrist" with MoveOn has got to be at the bottom of the toilet tank when it comes to grotesque excuses. There is no "center" at a corporate monopoly Fascist state pretending to be a “democracy” run on “capitalism” when “democracy” DOES NOT EXIST any more than free markets do.

Obama was never an antidote for BushCo with both temp regimes run by the same international Bilderberg-CFR-Wall Street machine. In fact, Obama is the grotesque symbol of everything wrong with America: a jolly tinsel glib and glam play-actor pimped off on the nation to sell it out. In the end MoveOn appears just another propaganda tool and limited hangout front for organized corporate crime that brought us the meltdown, bailouts and utterly bogus 9/11 "war on terror".

Like the Washington-MSM circus, MoveOn has come down to one thing:

a Judas Goat.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Its really simple...
Posted by: Farasien on May 28, 2009 7:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you want power in the formerly-great US of A, you only have to do a few things...

1. Put out some pseudo-populist ideas attacking the business and policymaking powerhouses.

2. Announce your intention to either A) run for office or B) form a PAC or some pseudo-entity that sounds like one (MoveOn, for example)

3. Scream and rant publicly making broad proclamations about what you're going to do to 'the bad guys' (business, the status quo, what-have-you)

4. Approach those same people you publicly attacked in step #3 and suggest you might be 'persuaded' to call off your attacks if you were given some 'support' in your public bid

5. Profit/get elected

6. Screw your original supporters while denying you ever said anything that you did in the beginning.

7. Shift your policy base to the center where the dumbasses live and give money reflexively.

8. Scrub, rinse and repeat.

I'm only 34 years old and I've seen it happen so many times, I can usually predict the winner in any political race now because of it. Learn some history, folks. We were conned from the beginning and until the corpses of politicians are rotting in the streets, it will never change.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Like everything liberal/progressive/left wing
Posted by: aahpat on May 28, 2009 7:29 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Democratic Party took it over and co-opted its leadership in order to make it an arm of the DNC. The only time we will see large organized actions from MOVEON.org is when the Democrats need to pressure the Republicans.

MoveOn.org has been totally silent about the authoritarian war on drugs that destroys millions of American lives, subsidizes crime and terrorism and is the legal basis for for the laws that eventually made up the Patriot Act.

MoveOn.org is a fraud! So too are the drug policy reform groups on America that do whatever and only what the white male dominated authoritarians in the Democratic Party leadership tell them to do.

THERE IS NO ANTI WAR MOVEMENT IN AMERICA!

The thug Democrats won't allow anyone to rock their boat.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The Democrats learned how to subvert
Posted by: aahpat on May 28, 2009 7:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Peace movements in the 1970's when John Kerry used the ant war group vietnam Veterans Against the War to further his own political career and then denouncing the group when it tried to expand into other social justice issues including civil rights.

The right-wing white leadership of the Democratic Party has talked out of both sides of its mouth ever since, espousing social justice and peace while only promoting and electing war mongers and racists.

MoveOn.org is simply the latest example of the DNC's ability to subvert and neutralize any and all social justice movements in America. The Democrats have perverted MoveOn.org to the craven political needs of the white right-wing dominated authoritarian Democratic Party.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I first heard and then saw one of the WCT towers floors pancaking on top of each other going down
Posted by: Silverhawk on May 28, 2009 10:33 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
On Sept 11, 2006 the fifth anniversary of 911 I watched cable news all day. One of the videos I saw had one of the WTC towers standing smoking full screen while the smoke was going down at a 45 degree angle, the lower angle being on the left of the screen. Being a professional drummer I noticed a fast poping sound going aproximately 250 beats per minute. The next thing I saw was flashes on the right corner of the building come out from behind the smoke. The flashes were going down. The flashes were at the same cadence as the poping. The flashes went down one floor at a time. Each time the flash ocured, the floor the flash ocured upon collapsed. The floors pancacked upon each other going down. The video did not last long enough to see the flashes on the left side of the screen come out of the smoke. The video did almost last long enough to see the flashes come out of the smoke but not quite. The video lasted long enough to see almost the entire floors left to right pancake on top of each other but for the smoke on the left which was leading going down the building. That is what I saw on TV Cable September 11, 2006. I am sure that I may never see that video ever again. I wonder if the editor got fired over that one. It took a lot of guts for the editor to edit that into the video shown that day. The editor had to have known that his or her job would be in jeapordy editing that video into a 5 year anniversary 911 cable tv show. It was either CNN or MSNBC. I'm not sure of the channel because I was going between the two all day watching everything I could. Did you first hear and then see it also? That had to have been the popping sounds the firemen talked about after the fact during interviews and inserted video originally shot and/or cablecasted on cable 9-11-01 and or 9-12-01.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Ignore MoveON - FIGHT TO PROSECUTE OUR AMERICAN TORTURERS
Posted by: JohnHKennedy Denver CO on May 29, 2009 5:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I feel the same way about MoveOn. A majority of members wanted Impeachement and MoveOn leadership ignored them.

Now a majority want Prosecution For Torture and the members are again being ignored.

BUT THE LEADERSHIP Milks Them For MONEY Regularly.

The only thing MoveOn represents is the power hungry influence peddlers at the top.

Ignore the MoveOn leadership. Stop giving them money.

And

If you do nothing else for your Country today,

SIGN THE PETITION To Prosecute Them For Torture at ANGRYVOTERS dot ORG

http://ANGRYVOTERS.ORG

Over 250,000 have signed
Join them and call yourself a Patriot

.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I guess real action is going back and forth on this forum
Posted by: Beck on May 29, 2009 5:33 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And describing how others have failed.

Maybe there would be even more comments but for all the pauses to self-backpat.

So does this really change the world for the better, or does it just make a little cyberworld appear changed?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I seldom come to this site anymore
Posted by: charliemudcat on May 29, 2009 1:45 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
because of the way people attack each other. So all of you who decry war as the answer, don't ask any questions about where it leaves us if we pick up and just leave GW's wars and go home. You still actually think that's a good idea. This is not rational thought, or accountability or responsibility. It is just head-in-the-sand stupidity. Leaving these countries broken and devastated is not peaceful or peace-loving or any other peace word you want to use. It's just childish and irresponsible--like the 20-something who starts a project and gets bored and goes home--except this time, lives are on the line.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

NO MONEY LEFT FOR WARS
Posted by: midwing on May 29, 2009 5:03 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Whether you think we should be fighting in the Middle East or not, the reality is is that this country has no more money to fight wars. If we continue to fight everybody's war, we won't have the money to defend our country, should the need arise.
If we don't do something about funding healthcare for all, we're going to have people dying on the streets. What a pretty sight that will be. We already have more homeless and starving people than we are willing to admit to- don't want other countries to know how bad things really are.
Midwing

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

NM Dreamer
Posted by: NMDreamer on May 30, 2009 1:12 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I belonged to MoveOn until it became clear that they were going to close ranks around Obama before the Democratic primaries were barely begun. It was clear then, and is clearer now, that the President is a politician like any other, albeit perhaps with more personal charisma than many. The man who many treated as the savior of the Western world is no more than a pol.

MoveOn staked its claim to moral authority with that move, and is now in no position to speak against Obama's policies unless they are willing to say that they backed the wrong candidate - or at least to say that the candidate they lauded so highly might be merely mortal after all.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Rolex Replica Watches All Stainless Pearl dial with roman numera [JP-Rolex-Men081030020] - $169.00 : PrettyReplica.com
Posted by: prettyreplica on May 31, 2009 8:33 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.PrettyReplica.com for sale all kinds of famous watches! Fashion Watches! Luxry Watches!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

  • AlterNetYour turn

Support AlterNet
Do you value the information you're getting from AlterNet? Please show your support with a tax-deductible donation.


Feedback
Tell us how we're doing.

Advertisement
Advertisement