COMMENTS: 145
Why Do Christians Worship Greed?
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Please remember Frederick Douglass.
That is to say, remember the Frederick Douglass of "power concedes nothing without a struggle." And I'm not sure that the struggle with market fundamentalism has even been joined yet, at least not at the level of principle where it most needs friends.
Like old Simeon in Luke's gospel, I am one who hopes to live long enough to see the consolation of Israel. Only in my case that consolation would take the form of deliverance from the malignant free-market madness that US conservatives have successfully promoted for four decades. Known (and much loathed) abroad as the "American model," or the "Washington consensus," this is the Friedman-Greenspan regime of total deregulation wherein the public, in effect, subsidizes big capital to work its high-growth wonders to the ostensible benefit of us all -- that chimera known as the trickle-down effect.
Because Americans live in a kind of perceptual bubble -- a bubble related to but not identical to financial bubbles of recent memory -- we have never seen the full extent of the devastation wrought by the "Washington consensus" on the lives of others and on the life of the planet itself. We've never seen the effects of the global sweatshop up close; we've never seen what privatized water markets look like in places like Bolivia; we've never asked whether there might be a connection between NAFTA's effects within Mexico and the urgent need of Mexicans to reach El Norte, even risking death by dehydration to get here.
Free market fundamentalism seemed to work out pretty well for us. To be sure, we could see the enormous wealth beginning to concentrate at the top of our own society. But as long as enough trickled down to us plebeians (and as long as we could get easy credit to keep up with those Joneses) we were okay with it. It is only now that the latest and largest financial bubble has burst that we are beginning to break through our perceptual bubble to wonder whether entrusting our fates to self-interested and unregulated moneymen was really such a great idea.
But I would not count on, say, the bad odor now adhering to the word "banker" to lead to our deliverance from the bankers' grip. To imagine that we can escape their clutches automatically, as it were, is to pretend that they've not achieved a substantial ascendancy within the culture that goes well beyond mere financial ascendancy.
They still own the government, after all. Their image may be a bit tarnished, but just two weeks ago they scuttled a Senate bill that would have allowed busted homeowners to seek relief in bankruptcy court. As Sen. Dick Durbin told a hometown radio station apropos of this fight: "The banks -- hard to believe in a time when we're facing a banking crisis that many of the banks created -- are still the most powerful lobby on Capitol Hill. And they frankly own the place."
The free marketeers are also heavily invested in think tanks and academic centers that perpetuate the hegemony of neoliberal doctrine, and these institutions aren't going away any time soon. They likewise own the major news media -- and we might note here that the accelerating collapse of old-fashioned newspapering is bound to lead to even less real investigative scrutiny of their endless conniving and insider dealing.
And, to get to the point of this essay, they also own a significant part of religious thought in this country. They always have, inasmuch as Anglo-American Protestants could never quite decide how much to follow Jesus Christ and how much to follow John Locke. But fealty to high finance has doubtless gained market share among the religious in recent decades. Recall how Alabama's Republican governor, Bob Riley, a conservative Christian citing gospel principles, tried to bring some tax fairness to his state in 2003. Riley got smacked down hard by the Christian Coalition, which by that time had adopted "thou shalt not tax the rich" as its 11th Commandment.
Even as corporate villains taste a tiny bit of populist pushback today, it still remains the case that the free markets/deregulation/low taxation creed enjoys a sanctified status among millions of America's twice-born. Jews and Roman Catholics still show some degree of theological/ethical resistance to market fundamentalism, whereas mainline Protestants are almost as split on economics as they are on LGBT justice claims. (One of the ongoing tragicomedies of the mainline world is what often happens to new ministers fresh out of seminary who think it's safe to question Chamber of Commerce verities out there in Ponca City.)
The Heritage School of Theology
Only in America can one find significant numbers of serious Christian theologians who will still argue that unfettered capitalism represents God's Plan for human thriving. Calvin College has made something of a specialty of defending entrepreneurship and acquisitive individualism in theological terms, but Calvin's theological point-people are hardly alone in this.
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Posted by: Tom Degan on May 21, 2009 12:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
for their's is the kingdom of Heaven.
Blessed are those who mourn,
for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek,
for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they shall be filled.
Blessed are the merciful,
for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they shall be called sons of God.
Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake,
for their's is the kingdom of Heaven.
Jesus Christ
The Sermon on the Mount
It's amazing, isn't it? Right-wingers tend to go absolutely bonkers when it comes to the Ten Commandments. They want it carved in to the walls of our court houses, our schools, everywhere! What I can't figure out is that, as Christians (and most conservatives are, after all, self-described Christians), one would think that their main point of emphasis would be on the New Testament. The Ten Commandments is from the Old Testament and Jesus is not even mentioned there - Not once! Don't get me wrong; It is a very good set of rules to live by - in fact I recommend it over any book ever written by Ann Coulter or Sean Hannity or any body else, for that matter. The fact that far too many conservatives are unable to detect the irony in the words, "Thou shalt not kill" has always somewhat puzzled me, given their overall support of the death penalty and the obscenity that their government is now committing, at this very minute, against the children of Iraq. But why they hardly ever focus on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ just doesn't make any sense to me!
Tell you what you can do: The next time one of these foolish conservative congressmen advocate the placing of the the Ten Commandments on the wall of a public building somewhere, call his office and tell him you're willing to compromise. Tell him that, as good and decent Christians, we should have the actual words of our Lord and Savior on that wall. Ask him if he'll agree to having the Sermon on the Mount etched, for all time, onto the marble instead. I'm willing to bet you anything that he won't go for that idea at all. Why? Because Jesus' words in that particular sermon are totally at odds with the goals of the main stream conservative movement . You don't believe me? Go ahead! Read it again. I'll wait.....
[PAUSE FOR EFFECT]
....Now do you see what I'm talking about? Were you able to detect just a teeny weeny, itsy bitsy contradiction between the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth and the nasty, public face of the right wing?
The unavoidable fact is this: Progressives can and must reclaim Jesus as one of our own. Just look at it this way; Do you think for one moment that, were He to return today to our troubled planet, He would be praising the deeds of the Bush administration? The only way I can fantasize Him coming onto the set of Pat Robertson's 700 Club would be in order to give that boy a good tongue lashing or maybe even a well-deserved ass whipping. Do you remember that scene in the gospel when He physically attacked the money changers who He felt were desecrating His temple? Yes, the Big Guy was capable of losing His temper and on at least one occasion He did. I can just see it now: He'd wipe the floor with these knuckleheads!
IT'S THE (stupid) BASE, STUPID!
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
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» four gospels = cut & paste till the meaning / gist you want comes through
Posted by: jingles
» RE: One Jesus two men, let those who can hear, hear
Posted by: solrev
» Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for social justice
Posted by: truthlover
» RE: Christ vs. Conservatism: A Serious Conflict
Posted by: Pilgrim
» 10 "Commandments": Also a Serious Conflict
Posted by: truthlover
» The “woes” are interesting too
Posted by: truthlover
» RE: Christ vs. Conservatism: A Serious Conflict
Posted by: adempatriot
» RE: Christ vs. Conservatism: A Serious Conflict
Posted by: Walks-in-Storms
» RE: Christ vs. Conservatism: A Serious Conflict
Posted by: Walks-in-Storms
» The Beatitudes are a primer on the Ten Commandments
Posted by: leafsong1
» What Tom just said
Posted by: dkm
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Posted by: Tom Degan on May 21, 2009 12:55 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Even Billy Graham's message has less to do with the agenda of these ultra-right wing crazies then it does to that of the left. For sixty years now, his emphasis has been on love; Pure, untainted and unconditional love. While many progressives have tended to scorn him for his ties to the Nixon White House, since the 1940s he has actually raised, at the very least, a billion dollars for charity while he himself has always lived modestly. There has been an unfair tendency among some people in recent years to throw him in with the Jimmy Swaggarts and the Jim Bakkers. To do so is nothing short of slanderous. The truth is that he is really one of the good guys.
Mother Theresa's absolute devotion and dedication to the poor and down-trodden was a positively radical stand! I don't know the exact amount in contributions she raised for her flock over the years, but I'm sure it was well in excess of one-hundred million dollars. Do you think that she spent one penny of those charitable donations on a diamond mine in South Africa (ala Pat Roberson)? Do you believe that she used the money to promote gambling casinos on Indian reservations (ala Ralph Reed and the so-called "Christian" Coalition)? Do you seriously think that she donated one farthing to the campaigns of Newt Gingrich or Bill Frist or even fellow Catholics, John Kerry and Ted Kennedy? All of it went to the poor while she lived in poverty. She was a saint.
That is what we mean when we say that someone is "Christ-like". This is what we don't mean when we use the term, "Christ-like":
"Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth". Cutting billions from government programs that were put in place to ease the pain and suffering of the poor and dispossessed - the meek - is anything but Christ-like. That is pretty much of a no-brainer. Trust me on this one. Under the current administration, the meek have been getting the shaft.
Handing out a hideously bloated tax cut to people who already have more money than they know what to do with, while it may very well be satanic behavior - you'll get no argument from me there - it is hardly Christ-like.
"Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy". In a 1999 interview with Tucker Carlson, Bush (in a feeble attempt at being "funny") mimicked the condemned Karla Faye Tucker pleading for her life. Hmm, call it a hunch but I've got a funny feeling that that wasn't very merciful. And don't forget that it was Bush who also sent over one hundred and fifty people to their deaths as governor of Texas - more than any other governor in American history. He would refuse to commute the sentences of people of questionable guilt - He wouldn't even review their cases! The 2000 presidential race was coming up and he just had to prove to the public that he was tough on crime. That's not very merciful either. As the late, great Lenny Bruce once observed, "Thou shalt not kill means just that"!
Tom Degan
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» Agree with everything you said except about Mother Theresa and I think you need to
Posted by: Timba
» Wise up on Mother Teresa, Tom
Posted by: pete ess
» RE: Your Wrong about Mother Teresa.
Posted by: osd
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Posted by: Tom Degan on May 21, 2009 12:59 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do".
No. Sending one-hundred and fifty human beings to their deaths is not, to be sure, a very Christ-like act. They would have had better luck had they been stem cells.
Abraham Lincoln was a blessed and merciful man who, though not a true Christian in the strictest sense of the word, was, in reality, our most Christ-like president. He was known to go out of his way, finding loopholes to avoid executing a deserting soldier during the civil war. (Fortunately for Bush, capitol punishment for desertion was a thing of the past by the time he went AWOL from the Air National Guard in 1972) Any plea for mercy for the condemned man from a distraught mother or father never went unrewarded. Like Christ, Lincoln would end up being executed by the enemies of righteousness. At his first inaugural on March 4, 1861, he pleaded with the rebelling southerners to be guided by the "better angels" of their nature. Can you just imagine Dubya under the same circumstances?
"BRING 'EM ON"!
Now admit it! It makes you sick just thinking about it, doesn't it? C'mon, BE HONEST!
Finally: manufacturing cooked-up evidence in order to frighten a quarter of a billion people into signing on to a war that has easily slaughtered over one-hundred thousand men, women and little children, the sole purpose of which was to seize the second largest oil reserves on the planet and grease the coffers of a handful of well-connected corporate cronies may be a lot of things - In fact, it is many things - But it is not Christ-like. Not even in the least. Again, this is a no-brainer.
And as an admittedly flawed Catholic, let me remind my fellow members of the Church of Rome that the Vatican has twice, under two different popes, vehemently condemned America's incursion into Iraq in the strongest language possible. Any Catholic who supports this war should hang his or her head in shame.
I know that it is wrong to speak the mind of the Lord and I won't even attempt to do so. But it is a fairly easy call to say that He is not looking down and smiling at the carnage that has been inflicted on this troubled planet by this sick and sickening administration. This ain't rocket science, kiddies. This is what is known as, "Christianity 101".
I really have only one great fear. Do you want to know what it is? Going to hell. I'd like to get to Heaven but I'm not all that sure I will. I'm almost certain that, at the very least, I'll probably do some serious time in Purgatory. For many years, I smoked and drank to excess and for a few of those years I used drugs. I was at times careless, even thoughtless with respect to my relationships with women. Although I've spent the better amount of my time in recent years trying to make amends, I'm not at all certain that I'll ever be allowed to walk through dem ol' pearly gates.
But of this, I am absolutely certain: If, at the end of my life when I'm standing on the threshold of eternity and I find that I have been condemned to eternal damnation, it won't be because of the very public stand I took, from day one, against this disgusting administration. It will be in spite of it.
Pray for peace.
Tom Degan
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» don't worry, Tom
Posted by: aislinnluv
» RE: don't worry, Tom
Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: Part Three
Posted by: Llama11
» RE: As a fellow member of the Church of Rome, let me remind you ...
Posted by: stellabloo
» Dear stellaboo....
Posted by: Tom Degan
» One more thing, stellaboo....
Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: Dear Tom (since we seem to be on intimate terms now),
Posted by: stellabloo
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Posted by: Tom Degan on May 21, 2009 1:19 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Tom Degan
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» Rejoice, Tom! I have Good News!
Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: ejoice, Tom! I have Good News!
Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: You're not hogging space, I really enjoyed what you had to say
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Since no one has come back
Posted by: weathered
» no one has come back?
Posted by: aislinnluv
» No there is something after death
Posted by: kegbot1
» What a bunch of BS.
Posted by: Karlh
» Bullshit
Posted by: kegbot1
» You have to be an X-files fan.
Posted by: Karlh
» RE: Please Note:
Posted by: melloe2
» RE: Please Note:
Posted by: Tom Degan
» If I may…
Posted by: truthlover
» RE: The Left Can and should Embrace 'Faith'
Posted by: Purple Girl
» RE: The Left Can and should Embrace 'Faith'
Posted by: hms2004
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Posted by: villager1 on May 21, 2009 2:12 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wonder, outside of Billy Graham and Mother Theresa are there any real christians on this planet?
Interesting thought?
I do not consider myself worthy to be called a christian but am continually shocked at the behaviour of those who are fanatical about their christianity or religion!
It seems to me that mostly the claim to being obviously religious grants one the right to deviate from all the teachings of the good book.
Regardless of whether people believe or not, the ten commandments are the trademark by which we should live our lives and I would like to meet one man who can say truthfully that he has lived by those commandments!
Just one?
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» RE: villager
Posted by: melloe2
» Mother Teresa??
Posted by: pete ess
» RE:Billy Graham?????? PLEASE!!!! He was a racist, bigoted,
Posted by: bitsfick
» RE: villager
Posted by: osd
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Posted by: weathered on May 21, 2009 3:26 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What we don't see are enough of the givers, those of esteem, honor and humility. MSM puts them in a blackbox.
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» RE: Leave Christ out of it
Posted by: masthead
» RE: MSM puts them in a blackbox
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Leave Christ out of it
Posted by: hms2004
» Leave DNA out of it...
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: smendler on May 21, 2009 4:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» more like "willing to be banged 'til they bled"
Posted by: hurricane hugo
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Posted by: kanekoa64 on May 21, 2009 4:26 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
artificial definitions that have become revolving door traps. To define actions and intention as either Good or Evil causes a temporary polarization and the eventual collision of both definitions as humans are unable to resist the attempt to excel at both at the same time and unintentionally, more often the opposite of the intended result.
I'm sure we all have wondered how the party that claims to be of superior moral fiber, stringent ethics and unwavering followers of the Bible have broken every tenant of the book without apparently being aware of the repercussions of their actions. It's as if, "Thou Shalt Not" doesn't apply to them, only to the unwashed "us's". From some twisted, unspoken agreement between the lot of them, they call themselves 'persecuted', but the truth is if anyone stands opposed to their narrow designs by any degree, they will incur real persecution, bordering on the seriously intrusive. Make the mistake of tripping the automated self entitlement reaction can create an avalanche of vitriolic wrath and fear along with an interpretive barrage of scripture misquoting to deny progress to any agenda deemed unholy along with free license moral and racial abuse given the Heavenly thumbs up by selectively editing out the inconvenient parts and lessons. Lying, cheating, stealing, murdering, enslavement, coveting, warmongering for profit, inciting fear and violence to maintain racial and social separation... nothing has proven beyond these self proclaimed foretellers of Gods wrath upon the rest of us, to the vindication of his faithful followers. Except there will be no vindication and there are no true followers. Only greedy, line cutting little liars who flash a fake backstage pass to a concert they missed, but bought a t-shirt or a poster for later, by a band with more players and songs than just the long haired guy they like so much. And half the songs they heard they never remembered the right lyrics for and the other half they never listened to, anyway.
If Heaven truly is what you make it, then WTF, man?
Religion has become a sanctuary for Evil.
And it's thriving.
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Posted by: BaconDatty on May 21, 2009 5:11 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
RT
Privacy Center
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» what's in a name?
Posted by: aislinnluv
» RE: troll w/ toxic link
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
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Posted by: ProgressiveManiac on May 21, 2009 5:11 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This simple nostrum characterizes the Regan era and it has done a surprising amount of harm to the country and to the world. Of course greed can do some good when it motivates someone to invent some new technology, to write new music or to build a new business. But greed also leads people to slander, steal and cheat. Too many people find that the fastest way to satisfy their greed is to take advantage of others.
No, greed is not at all an unalloyed good. Great Christian thinkers like great Muslim thinkers, great Buddhist thinkers and great Atheist thinkers have long understood this and have generally treated greed more as a deadly sin than as something that is in any way good.
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» Reagan era
Posted by: aislinnluv
» It's so hard to give that man an 'A'
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
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Posted by: lorenbliss on May 21, 2009 5:17 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But like so many other such critics, Mr. Laarman remains in total denial of the direct-line relationship that unites the theology of Genesis with capitalism and ultimately with capitalism's self-protective hybrid of theocracy and fascism. Thus he misses two gravely important points: that theofascism is already the governing ethos of the U.S., and that barring the emergence of some future equivalent of the Soviet Union, theofascism will eventually tyrannize the entire planet forever -- that is, until the “forever” is terminated by the extinction of the human species.
The answer to the implicit question of “why” is contained in the relationship itself. Genesis includes three unique doctrines that distinguish Abrahamic religions from any of their past or present counterparts. These are the principle of a male creator (a male god who brings the cosmos into being entirely by himself, without female help); the principle of women as not only unnecessary (and therefore inferior -- note again the Genesis creation tale) but damned and therefore implicitly evil; and the principle of “god’s chosen people,” a ruling class before whom all others are “ungodly” and therefore definitively inferior.
Hence our species is irrevocably alienated from nature even as man and woman are perpetually divorced from one another and we ourselves divided into warring camps -- by Abrahamic theology into infidels and believers; by fascism into ubermenschen and untermenschen; by capitalism into executives and workers, with those of us labeled workers further classified as “profitable” (exploitable for executive gain) or “unprofitable” (to be disposed of as quickly as possible). Thus is infinite greed elevated to ultimate virtue. Thus too not just a U.S. health care system deliberately designed to inflict what amounts to euthanasia by neglect and abandonment on the unprofitable -- that is, those of us who are chronically impoverished, elderly or disabled -- but the predictable and now increasingly obvious obstruction of any sort of meaningful healthcare reform.
The reason most critics of National Christianity overlook these connections is that they probably managed to avoid living in the South, where theocracy has been the dominant mode of governance since Reconstruction and where the relationship between Christianity, capitalism, fascism and imperialism are obvious in all aspects of life. The churches function as thought police in every sense of the word, building barricades of “Bible Truth” that, for example, make union organizing perpetually impossible. For those who resist, there is always the threat of punitive visits by the Saturday Night Men’s Bible Study Class -- the polite euphemism for the Ku Klux Klan.
Just as Genesis-based Christianity logically gave birth to capitalism, so did the self-protective instinct in capitalism logically give birth to fascism and thus comes full circle to the logical hybrid of U.S. theofascism. In Europe, the surviving pagan values implicit in the Golden Rule and humanism in general have thus far proven strong enough to resist the Christian impulse toward absolute tyranny. But here in what became the United States, all ameliorative voices were silenced by genocide. Thus the U.S. is the one truly “Christian” nation on the planet -- precisely why it is so self-righteously greedy and so ruthlessly vicious.
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» RE: Christianity, Capitalism, Fascism, Theofascism
Posted by: Aquinas
» RE: I read a different translation of Genesis
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» Femininity in the Genesis creation
Posted by: truthlover
» RE: Femininity in the Genesis creation
Posted by: lorenbliss
» RE: Femininity in the Genesis creation
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» RE: Femininity in the Genesis creation
Posted by: lorenbliss
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Posted by: teel on May 21, 2009 5:50 AM
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Posted by: Yankeeinexile on May 21, 2009 6:04 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Right now, I don't see much real investigative scrutiny, especially of the press covering business.
The jig ain't up. Reagan was Obama's hero, as said by him during the campaign. Now that he's left much of the current foreign policy in place, and let the banksters have everything they want, and big pharma dictate the new healthcare screwing of the public, what his presidency will aspire to is a softer, more acceptable Reaganism. One where you won't realize how screwed you are until after he leaves office. We will be bilked and we will love him and cheer him.
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Posted by: Bigioni on May 21, 2009 6:33 AM
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» RE: dangerous reefs which we must navigate cautiously between
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
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Posted by: ellie on May 21, 2009 6:33 AM
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it's all a matter of doing what is good for others and then yourself (you should run out of 'stuff' before you get to yourself)... greed and callousness are the problem...
the richest man in a tribal society is the one who has nothing... generosity till it hurts is the key (so shut down the $$ maker religious cults already)...
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» RE: glad...
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» RE: glad...
Posted by: Aquinas
» You might be pleasantly surprised
Posted by: truthlover
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Posted by: DrSuess on May 21, 2009 6:33 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In many issues the morality of the Christian right is totally confined to certain issues. If you go outside those narrow issues of abortion and homosexuality there seems to be a moral void.
I am a religious Christian who actually tries to live morality in my daily life. I simpathise with the religious right who stop at pronouncements on religion and who don't actually practice it in their lives. It is diffucult to actually live a moral life. It is much easier to be like Sara Palin and make all kinds of moral statements, and then go on and do whatever they want in daily life. Actually living morality on a daily basis is a constant case of thinking- 'is this good for all concerned?" sometimes you need to do things against your own self interest to be moral- and that can be hard to do.
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Posted by: ZPaul on May 21, 2009 6:35 AM
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More "Christians" should apply the first part of that verse to themselves, ask themselves if they are in effect doing what a thief does, and in passing, also read this verse:
"Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth." (Luke 12:15)
one more:
"The meek shall inherit the earth: and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace."
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Posted by: Walks-in-Storms on May 21, 2009 6:38 AM
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When hundreds, even thousands, of people here in South Texas begin to show the hideous effects of living near nuclear power plants - women, for insance are five times as likely to develop breast cancer - how do the CEOs and others who put the damned things here explain to their Christian god?
How do local newspapers and media who refuse to inform the public of the facts concerning exposure to airborn radiation, uranium-polluted water, and all the rest - facts like the aftermath of Three Miles Island - face their consciences?
Well, elsewhere here on AlterNet we have perhaps an explanation. How do you make repetitive drowning and reviving someone "waterboarding" and not torture? How do you explain "partial birth abortion?"
How do you practice Christianity and corporate capitalism? Just call yourself an "American."
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Posted by: Sojourner on May 21, 2009 6:38 AM
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Fortune is a god that is worshipped universally. That is not likely to change, so it is only by demonstrating the costs of such idol worship that religion can contribute to sustainability
Although the Puritans came to the New World to build a shining city on a hill where piety and purity guided the citizenry, the practices that allowed them to survive the hardships gave way to prosperity within a generation. It was the earliest settlers who now had the material the new immigrants needed. By selling land and building things that could not be brought aboard ship, the former indigent became wealthy in turn. The immigration from Europe and elsewhere has always been clothed in dreams of prosperity.
So, does religion then always succumb to circumstance? In most cases, yes, but not in all cases. Distributive justice is an undeveloped notion, in ethics as well as religion. That may change if ever sustainability assumes its rightful place in our thinking and living. Our survival now depends on that.
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Posted by: rgd on May 21, 2009 6:43 AM
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» And I don't see "blessed are the rich" anywhere in the sermon on the mount.
Posted by: Sojourner
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Posted by: LeeAnnG on May 21, 2009 6:47 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone who saw Senator Lynn Westmoreland's appearance on the Colbert Report awhile back realizes that his insistence on the 10 commandments as public moral guidelines has nothing to do with what they actually say. Westmoreland was unable to list the commandments. I believe he remembered three of them! Yet before Colbert asked him to list them, he said that the failure to follow them was at the core of our moral decline, particularly among youth.
Few of the Christians I know actually read the Bible or know what Christ is supposed to have said on the Mount. One Christian acquaintance told me he believes in the Bible literally. So I asked him if he really thinks Noah was able to fit two of every animal in the world on an ark the size of a football field, that the predators survived without eating their prey, and that Noah managed to get to Australia to gather up the kangaroos and koalas. His answer was that it doesn't matter, that it's the essence of the Bible he believes in. Of course, I had to point out to him that the word "literal" has a literal meaning, and that "essence" does not qualify.
Hypocrisy is often a trademark of the religiously self-righteous. So, of course, is ignorance. I can almost understand the need some people have to believe in mythology and even to select certain dogma as truth in the face of huge amounts of evidence to the contrary. People tend to believe in whatever makes them comfortable or whatever fullfills certain needs. But I don't understand how people can say they believe in something when they haven't read the book that describes their faith. I suppose, however, that when this book is a compilation of various contradictory ancient texts that have been translated multiple times throughout the ages, studying it is likely to produce more questions than answers.
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» "Hypocrisy is often a trademark of the religiously (and all other) self-righteous."
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: Ignorance
Posted by: mrbillwilson
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Posted by: SufiLizard on May 21, 2009 6:50 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My particular denomination has been less susceptible than most to the "greed is good" pseudo-theology, but I can't deny it has even made inroads here.
The good news is, there seems to be a deep change going on throughout Christianity.
Because let's face it, The Bible contains more than 300 verses on the poor, social justice, and God's deep concern for both. I think there is a quiet shift occurring in Christianity where people are starting to realize this fact.
For the past 30 years or so, Christians have been focused on abortion and homosexuality with tunnel vision, but how many times did Christianity's namesake mention abortion or homosexuality in all the texts we have? A combined ZERO.
But Jesus was pretty clear about helping the poor and condemning the rich. Why are all these Biblical literalists so silent about that?
And isn't Pat Robertson on the board of directors of the Royal Bank of Scotland after claiming that very institution was an instrument of the Antichrist a few years back?
Hypocrisy has been rife in Christianity for centuries, but at it's core, it's still a faith based on peace, social justice and 'one love.'
Please remember that for every Christian responsible for hypocrisy, greed, persecution and violence, there is one quietly, and selflessly working for social justice. The latter just doesn't have an expensive PR machine telling her story.
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» At this point, I no longer care.
Posted by: Eddie Van Helsing
» RE: The Times They Are a' Changin'? Your an Example...
Posted by: kanekoa64
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Posted by: Tom Degan on May 21, 2009 6:51 AM
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"I love Jesus. It's Christians that I have a bit of a problem with".
Or words to that effect.
Tom Degan
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» The actual quote was:
Posted by: left-leaning-libertarian
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Posted by: Eddie Van Helsing on May 21, 2009 6:52 AM
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Posted by: vasumurti on May 21, 2009 7:09 AM
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Jesus told the multitudes to seek eternal treasures in heaven rather than pursue temporary, earthly gain. He insisted upon the self-sacrifice and renunciation of possessions and family ties and duties. (Matthew 6:19-21, 6:24-34, 8:21-22, 10:34-39, 19:20-21,29; Luke 9:57-62, 12:51-53, 14:25-26,33; James 5:1-3)
Jesus had no interest in disputes over money and property. (Luke 12:13-14) He taught that life is meant for more than the accumulation of material goods. He condemned those who lay up treasures for themselves, but are not rich towards God. (Luke 12:15-21) In his parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man, Jesus expressed concern for materialistic persons (Luke 16:19-31).
Jesus taught that it is hard for those attached to earthly riches to enter the kingdom of God. (Matthew 19:16-24; Mark 10:17-23; Luke 18:18-25) His apostles lead lives of voluntary poverty; sharing their possessions with one another. Those among the brethren who did not do so were condemned. (Acts 2:44, 5:1-11)
"He who loves his life will lose it," taught Jesus, "and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life...For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" (Matthew 16:26; Mark 8:36; Luke 9:25; John 12:25)
Paul said, "Piety with contentment is great gain indeed; for we brought nothing into the world and, obviously, we can carry nothing out. When we have food and clothing, we shall be content with these. Those who are eager to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into numerous thoughtless and hurtful cravings that plunge people into destruction and ruin.
"For the love of money is the root of all evil. In striving for it, some have wandered away from the faith...But you, O man of God, shun these things and go after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, gentleness." (I Timothy 6:6-11)
Gambling preys upon those who can least afford it—the people of lower income. The National Commission of Gambling estimated in 1983 that there were over a million compulsive gamblers nationwide. The Commission predicted that as gambling gradually becomes legal across the country, this figure will eventually reach three million.
The first treatment center for compulsive gamblers was built outside Baltimore, Maryland, in 1982. Compulsive gamblers often run into enormous financial hardships--borrowing or even stealing from others, including their own families.
Heavy debt becomes a hard fact of life for compulsive gamblers. They sleep poorly, and become indifferent towards eating and affection. Tense and irritable, they often drink, and may even consider suicide.
Since the advent of legalized gambling, per capita crime in the Atlantic City area has tripled. A police check of records at different casinos there wound over one million dollars loaned to 25 underworld figures.
One survey of police enforcement of gambling laws found that 80 percent of the police believe profits from illegal gambling are used to finance other illegal activities, such as loan-sharking. In half of the cities surveyed, local independent criminal organizations were said to control gambling operations.
Conservative Protestants have traditionally taken a stand against gambling. The Puritans of Massachusetts enacted America’s first law against gambling in 1638. In 1682, the Quakers in Pennsylvania passed their own law against gambling and "such like enticing, vain, and evil sports and games." During the period from 1830 to 1860, lotteries were banned across America. By 1908, nearly every state in the nation had banned horse racing.
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» RE: I don't think it was gambling he was complaining about
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Gambling is in the eye of the beholder
Posted by: solrev
» That's because gambling is one form of things it does mention
Posted by: truthlover
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Posted by: ReallyBearish on May 21, 2009 7:32 AM
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It happens that the Calvinists (Puritans) got here first and established this notion into the American psyche, but it exists anywhere Calvinism resides.
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Posted by: JefffromCA on May 21, 2009 8:13 AM
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Posted by: solrev on May 21, 2009 8:22 AM
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» Christian= cross worshipper
Posted by: leafsong1
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Posted by: alturn on May 21, 2009 8:30 AM
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“Market forces — Market forces are the forces of wickedness, confusion and chaos, and its children are competition and comparison. Market forces are satanic forces. Market forces lead to ‘mine’ and ‘more’ (ie, possessiveness and greed) and there is no end to it. Market forces will bring this civilization, as we have known it, to the edge of disaster.”
“The essence of market forces is greed and separatism. The more one is attached to these forces, the more they create cells of imprisonment. This leads to spiritual bankruptcy and mental disequilibrium.”
“The energy which is wreaking havoc in the world now through storms, earthquakes and volcanic eruptions have been unleashed because man thinks he can do what he likes. He believes that if he has a healthy bank balance he has a healthy life. But greed drives him to destruction, said the associate. Spiritually and mentally he is bankrupt.“
“Happiness — Human beings are looking for happiness such as is found in the lap of the mother. You will find happiness when you begin to realize that the Almighty is always with you, 24 hours of the day. Then you will experience freedom from within. There is no room then for unhappiness, greed or anger.“
“If you are attached to the body, you will find that there is no end to material desires and sensual gratifications. Greed grows, the search continues, and satisfaction always eludes you. If you are attached to the mind, you can become entangled in thought constructions, ideologies, “isms” to which there is no end. The more you search, the further afield you go, the more you find, there will always be unknown regions. In fact, you can get lost here. You do not feel fulfilled.“
“Market forces are the antithesis of freedom and salvation. (the writer of the article adds: Maitreya has developed this theme over the years, in the sense that market forces are now too powerful. We have become their slaves, whereas the aim is and should be to master them. The only way to do so is to establish right priorities, initially the feeding and sheltering of many millions who are in dire need. The sense of security this will create will itself do much to calm people’s fear and the greed which has its roots in fear. When most people have “enough”, then many will no longer feel the need to chase after more and more. Gross inequality will no longer be the destabilizing force it is at present.)"
“Once someone knows ‘the Lord is with him’ he can give up greed.“
The current societal obsession with greed, and all religions being guilty to a greater or lesser degree of turning a blind eye to this disease, is one of the reasons that Maitreya is not already known to the general public.
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on May 21, 2009 8:44 AM
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Posted by: willymack on May 21, 2009 8:51 AM
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Posted by: salamah on May 21, 2009 10:35 AM
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» RE: Saul - was the one who said that women were not allowed to speak in church.
Posted by: stellabloo
» Nope
Posted by: Philip Newton
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Posted by: draco40 on May 21, 2009 12:03 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Christian right wing TV preachers (who may not even believe in Christ and can be downright scary if one sees films of Hitler spewing forth) take advantage of the generally well-meaning if misled Christian masses and all Christians get the bony finger of accusation of greed pointed at them. Terrific.
One might as well make similar accusations against,say, Jews based on the sad excesses of Hollywood or certain Wall Street types; or of Buddhists because of certain Asian leaders who claim they are Buddhists yet ignore the teachings (tear them to shreds) by thuggery and bloody domination of their countries to maintain personal excessive lifestyles; etc.
Why do Christians have to be greedy? Might as well ask why humans have to be greedy.
Mal y soit qui honi pense
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» RE: The author of this article did not say "all Christians"
Posted by: ZPaul
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Posted by: okcsteve on May 21, 2009 12:07 PM
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I think the real question we need to ask is why so many born on 3rd base with regards to understanding social justice types are so judgemental of these people who don't know any better. I live in Oklahoma City and am honestly fed up with the people on the coasts that don't give a damn about people. You want to pretend this "Democratic majority" will last??? Sorry...it will swing just like it did last time, and for the same reason....you MUST STOP WRITING THESE PEOPLE OFF AS IF THEY ARE STUPID!!! Its like the great Christian singer Rich Mullins always said...they aren't bad, just wrong. Quit being such snobs, damn it!
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» RE: Strict Upbringings has nothing to do with it
Posted by: VZEQICVA
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Posted by: stellabloo on May 21, 2009 12:09 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Promoting 'Spiritual Capital'
... Dr. Theodore Roosevelt Malloch ... claims that business and religion share many features.
The Metanexus Institute of Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania, defines spiritual capital as "the effects of spiritual and religious practices, beliefs, networks and institutions that have a measurable impact on individuals, communities and societies."
It's a concept with a long history, going back to classical works like Max Weber's The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism. It goes back even further, to the Calvinist emphasis on the need for hard work, since success in the secular world is a sign of personal salvation. Spiritual capital could be a useful concept in humanizing the marketplace. But the money and interests behind it indicates it is being used to co-opt spirituality for corporate and political purposes.
Metanexus and Malloch together received $2 million from the Templeton Foundation to set up an organization called the Spiritual Enterprise Institute and disseminate the view that spiritual values underpin successful capitalist ventures.
John Templeton, who died in 2008, was a high priest of capitalism who built a billion-dollar fortune selling global mutual funds and moving to the Bahamas to avoid paying taxes. Templeton began his company's annual meetings with prayers, he said, to clear the minds of shareholders. It worked. His foundation has assets of $1.5 billion and gives away $70 million a year, largely to projects that promote the convergence of science and religion.
Malloch, with a PhD in international political economy from the University of Toronto, moves easily among the private, public and non-profit sectors. He's worked for Wharton-Chase Econometrics, Salomon Brothers, the U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Committee, the World Economic Forum, and the United Nations. He's connected to the neo-conservative Hudson Institute, which advocates the abolition of government-backed social security, an end to corporate income taxes and a pre-emptive military strike against Iran.
Malloch has worked on many Republican presidential campaigns. In the 2008 election, he supported the most conservative Republican candidate, Fred Thompson, the former senator from Tennessee and Law and Order actor.
In short, this pernicious line of thinking enables the wealthiest people of the world to maintain a facade of righteousness while shamelessly stepping on the bodies of the other 99.999% of humanity. I.e. If you don't happen to be filthy rich then obviously God doesn't like you very much and you deserve whatever you get. We need to root these arrogant bastards where ever they are - and where ever their tax shelter might be - and exorcize them where it hurts.
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» The money changers always hang around the temple.
Posted by: Sojourner
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Posted by: Lilly on May 21, 2009 12:23 PM
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» Our Pilgrims left Holland because they wanted to keep their own customs.
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: Parallel But Unequal
Posted by: undrgrndgirl
» RE: Parallel But Unequal
Posted by: Sojourner
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Posted by: undrgrndgirl on May 21, 2009 1:05 PM
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» Do you know "Godly Letters: The Literature of the American Puritans by Colacurcio"?
Posted by: Sojourner
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Posted by: kogwonton on May 21, 2009 3:46 PM
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Ezekiel 28 begins by telling the story of the king of Tyre. Tyre was one of the wealthiest of kingdoms due to their abundant commerce with other nations. The story quickly morphs into the story of a spiritual being of high office, who coincidentally is both a king and priest who wears a breastplate of twelve stones nearly identical in description to that of the High Priest of the Hebrew temple.
This king of Tyre, which is used in classical Christian doctrine as part of the basis for the Devil's 'fallen angel' status, had been appointed as a 'covering cherub' who 'walked between the stones of fire'.
Now here is the irony.
This 'covering cherub' had his 'heart filled with violence' because of the sheer volume of his 'commerce', and his wealth created in him vanity sufficient to call himself a god.
Funny that commerce (capitalism) would be the very thing that led to pride, which is considered the Devil's first sin.
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Posted by: vasumurti on May 21, 2009 5:32 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"This is a point that must have been very hard for the early followers of Jesus because he insisted, in every instance, that they put loyalty to him above loyalty to their families, and he put it in very strident terms: ‘Unless you leave behind your wife, your family, and come and follow me, you can’t be my disciple.’...
"Now, somehow or other, over the years we’ve made Jesus into a kind of blessing of the patriarchal bourgeois family. There’s not one single text anywhere in the teachings of Jesus that supports this. Jesus is a person who’s calling people to something that is more important than family."
Dr. Cox sees Eastern spirituality as an alternative to the mass consumerism and crass materialism of the West:
"In American society, I believe we’re now in the late phase, the most deteriorated, decadent phase of consumer capitalism. When I say ‘consumer capitalism,’ I don’t mean simply the form of our economic life; I mean our whole culture. It’s not just a capitalist economic system. It’s a capitalistic culture, with personal lifestyles, values, morality, and meaning perceptions all in some measure shaped by this underlying ethos. And all this means that the value of the person is greatly underrated.
"People’s primal energies are fixated on commodities that are supposed to bring satisfaction of inner hungers. Through the suggestive and hypnotic powers of the advertising industry, a direct connection is made from very basic things which satisfy those needs; but of course they do not. Furthermore, the life pattern is pretty well set out through educational, occupational, and career structures which define for people the meaning of success in material terms, and in a way that people think that they’re making choices. But they’re actually being coerced and manipulated into a structure which really does not pay off in terms of genuine spiritual satisfaction.
"The result...is the creation of a lot of unsatisfied hungers and unresolved fears which turn into anger and violence. I think a lot of the violence in our society is a result of this...Ultimately, I become angry at the whole society that is the cause of my unfulfillment, and there’s a tendency to take that frustration out on other people. So I think the whole web of violence in our society is related to this in ways that are not explored thoroughly enough by psychologists.
"Now, from my point of view, what Christianity should be doing in this country is providing an alternative to this capitalist-consumer ethos, in terms of personal values and ultimate meaning. There are a few Christians who are doing it, but the vast majority of people who call themselves Christians are, in fact, completely caught up in this un-Christian value system."
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Posted by: MotherLodeBeth on May 21, 2009 6:06 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a Christian I live in a community where all the churches not only make sure the less advantaged amongst their own but we make sure those in the general community are cared for.
I attend a small 'cowboy church' that still sets aside money each month to help with energy bills, car repairs, medication etc. We also have a large church garden and this week three members came by to help rototiller a larger area in my back yard for my own garden since I love fresh vegetables and have neighbors whom I will share the bounty with.
Personally I think many Americans confuse the televangelist who rakes in tens of millions of dollars per year and live wealthy lives, with the majority of Christians who live quiet lives in towns and cities, usually overlooked by the media who prefers hype stories that get ratings.
Look at Cecil Williams of San Francisco's Glide Memorial Church who has helped millions. Or what about the small white or brick church in rural communities throughout the states who daily, go about doing the Lords work? With mottos 'What you do to the least of them you do to me...Christ'.
Mayabe if the media (alternet.org included) would spend more time looking at the positive people wouldnt be so jaded or sadly, depressed.
~Beth~
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» RE: There are more good than bad Christians.....
Posted by: yale
» Alternet get lots of attention for posting religious hate speech
Posted by: Philip Newton
» Attention whores? religion is cancer and needs attention.
Posted by: yale
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Posted by: yale on May 21, 2009 6:22 PM
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Posted by: PaulK on May 21, 2009 6:45 PM
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"Thou shalt not make graven images" -- God, the Third Commandment. This refers equally to money and to statues of other gods. Roman emperors regularly named themselves as gods, had people burn incense to them and worship them as gods, got their own months of the year along with the other gods, and put their ugly mugs on the empire's coins.
"Show me a coin" -- Jesus. This was a way to get the Pharisees to admit that they weren't following the Third Commandment. "Whose likeness is on the coin?"
"Caesar's"
"Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, render unto God what is God's".
So, how actually Christian is money? Contradiction city?
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» RE: Mammon is another name for money
Posted by: kogwonton
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Posted by: capitanfracasso on May 21, 2009 8:02 PM
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Posted by: Wrighty on May 21, 2009 11:16 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
male, 40+
white
blue-collar
southern state but not always
married
gun-loving
pro-hunting and killing of...anything, including people, that annoy them (and that's a lot of people)
war-loving, Bush and Cheney can do no wrong. Obama merely has to wake up and breathe in the morning and they go ballistic
muslim or islam-hating sometimes to extremes (yet strangely affiliated to Gulf money and oil, being managed by Arabs for them no less)
homophobic (failing to realize gay men and women also work oilfields, pipelines and the banks and set up their ETFs and unit trusts for little Bobby-Sue-Corinne to go through college)
tax-avoiders (always looking for ways to avoid paying tax)
Devoutly religious. In and among all this hate, greed and self-obsession with what is 'right'.
That's just scratching the surface with these peoples psyche.
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Posted by: Artkansas on May 22, 2009 3:40 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What could be greedier than that?
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Posted by: itsthemedication on May 22, 2009 4:10 AM
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Likewise, when I open to ACTS and read about the socialistic early church complete with the phrase and "to each according to their needs," and then watch the GOP demonize all social programs, I have to wonder how the people accept these "leaders" as Christians. They most certainly are not Christians,.
As for the bankers, do we need to go there? There was only one group of people that made Christ mad enough to violently strike out. Yet as they flaunt every ursary rule ever followed by reasonable men, they will also call themselves Christian. Well, no, you're not.
I keep looking for Christian leadership, but it is a lonely vigil, because at its roots it truly is a very difficult religion to live by. Especially in a greed driven capitalistic country that badly wants to be an Empire, but was born of the egalitarian enlightenment philosophy.
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Posted by: Rev. Ian on May 22, 2009 7:52 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Indeed, the author says there are "significant numbers of serious Christian theologians" who "argue" that "unfettered capitalism represents God's plan for human thriving." Excuse me? Exactly what does the writer mean by "significant numbers?" Even more importantly, what criteria is he using for "serious Christian theologians?" Since he does not make any attempt to define either of these phrases, his claims are prima facie suspect.
More cogently, however, is that the author completely overlooks the truest form of "Christian economics," as stated clearly and overtly in the New Testament by Paul:
"And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common...Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,and laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need." (Acts 4:32-35)
Get that? "From each according to his ability to provide, to each according to his need." It is a supreme irony that it was CHRISTIANS - not Marx - who first developed economic "communism" (or, more correctly, communalism) - and then Marx not only stole it, but turned around and called religion "the opium of the masses." Perhaps he was trying to cover up his theft...
Ultimately, the only "economic plan" specifically spoken of in the New Testament is the one above - which is about as far from capitalism as it can possibly be. Yet not one reporter or pundit that I have ever read has had the courage to state this.
Peace.
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» Amen
Posted by: Philip Newton
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Posted by: mikeblack on May 22, 2009 10:28 AM
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» Do you?
Posted by: Philip Newton
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Posted by: bitsfick on May 22, 2009 2:31 PM
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Posted by: Philip Newton on May 22, 2009 3:14 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why does Alternet constantly try to lump believing Christians in with these folks? Probably because they are just as ignorant and prejudiced as those they condemn.
Before you go plastering your anti-Christian views on the Internet, try picking up a book or two on comparative religions.
Or, just go ahead and display your ignorance and further marginalize your already irrelevant positions.
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Posted by: kenhymes on May 22, 2009 6:31 PM
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Of course you can find the horrible Calvinists and reactionary pastors. Church in general is trending left and shares progressive values, mirroring almost exactly the society as a whole. The hating and namecalling is a stumbling block in the way of potentially powerful alliances between religious people and secular activists. Let's work for justice and peace, not try to win a pointless battle about cosmology.
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Posted by: Migmig on May 22, 2009 8:02 PM
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Posted by: Philip Newton on May 22, 2009 9:18 PM
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They yanked that, plus a couple of rather innocuous replies. Guess a post just has to say "Philip Newton" for the thin-skinned ones to pull it.
But the most hate-filled drivel remains. They even pay for it.
Sad, oh self-indulgent ones.
Build the wall a little higher. Become even more irrelevant than you are today.
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Posted by: kanekoa64 on May 23, 2009 4:47 AM
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And if they believed, they'd know how badly their religion needs retooling and might benefit from a more stringent admission policy. It's way too easy to say your a Christian to invoke the Bible to justify Racism, Sexism and secular violence, to name only three of the sins that seem to be the most popular in terms of justifying. Greed? Well, you don't want the pagans to get any of those paper promises with "In God We Trust" written on them, do we?
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Posted by: Walks-in-Storms on May 23, 2009 10:15 AM
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We know, but we insist on shooting ourselves in the foot. We're nuts - "First base!"
Abott and Costello, anyone?
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Posted by: reelman on May 23, 2009 11:50 AM
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Of course we all also know that proclaimed atheists hide their money in devious ways and seek all they can get...
try posting some premise that actually is valid.
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» America the most charitable nation in the history of the world?
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Another false premise!
Posted by: Wrighty
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Posted by: leafsong1 on May 24, 2009 7:57 AM
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Motivated self interest is an effective economic machine, but a machine is useless unless it is harnessed to serve a greater good.
The pursuit of wealth and the pursuit of happiness are not synonymous, and are often antithetical.
There is much more to be said.
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Posted by: ceti on May 25, 2009 2:14 PM
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“Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.” Then the righteous will answer Him, “Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food, or thirsty and gave you something to drink? And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you, or naked and gave you clothing? And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you?” And the king will answer them, “Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family,* you did it to me.”’
On the other hand, he will reproach the bad nations:
“You that are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not give me clothing, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.” Then they also will answer, “Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not take care of you?” Then He will answer them, “Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.” And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.’
The meaning is pretty damn clear. Those nations that provided for the "least of these" will be accepted in heaven, those nations that cruelly turned away the "least" will be condemned for all eternity. Socialism vs. Laissez Faire Darwinian Capitalism right there in the Bible.
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» RE: The Judgement of Nations
Posted by: 66mustang
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Posted by: ruruben on Jun 15, 2009 8:03 PM
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Posted by: Tom Degan on May 21, 2009 12:47 AM
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for their's is the kingdom of Heaven.
Blessed are those who mourn,
for they shall be comforted.
Blessed are the meek,
for they shall inherit the earth.
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they shall be filled.
Blessed are the merciful,
for they shall obtain mercy.
Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they shall see God.
Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they shall be called sons of God.
Blessed are those who are persecuted for righteousness' sake,
for their's is the kingdom of Heaven.
Jesus Christ
The Sermon on the Mount
It's amazing, isn't it? Right-wingers tend to go absolutely bonkers when it comes to the Ten Commandments. They want it carved in to the walls of our court houses, our schools, everywhere! What I can't figure out is that, as Christians (and most conservatives are, after all, self-described Christians), one would think that their main point of emphasis would be on the New Testament. The Ten Commandments is from the Old Testament and Jesus is not even mentioned there - Not once! Don't get me wrong; It is a very good set of rules to live by - in fact I recommend it over any book ever written by Ann Coulter or Sean Hannity or any body else, for that matter. The fact that far too many conservatives are unable to detect the irony in the words, "Thou shalt not kill" has always somewhat puzzled me, given their overall support of the death penalty and the obscenity that their government is now committing, at this very minute, against the children of Iraq. But why they hardly ever focus on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ just doesn't make any sense to me!
Tell you what you can do: The next time one of these foolish conservative congressmen advocate the placing of the the Ten Commandments on the wall of a public building somewhere, call his office and tell him you're willing to compromise. Tell him that, as good and decent Christians, we should have the actual words of our Lord and Savior on that wall. Ask him if he'll agree to having the Sermon on the Mount etched, for all time, onto the marble instead. I'm willing to bet you anything that he won't go for that idea at all. Why? Because Jesus' words in that particular sermon are totally at odds with the goals of the main stream conservative movement . You don't believe me? Go ahead! Read it again. I'll wait.....
[PAUSE FOR EFFECT]
....Now do you see what I'm talking about? Were you able to detect just a teeny weeny, itsy bitsy contradiction between the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth and the nasty, public face of the right wing?
The unavoidable fact is this: Progressives can and must reclaim Jesus as one of our own. Just look at it this way; Do you think for one moment that, were He to return today to our troubled planet, He would be praising the deeds of the Bush administration? The only way I can fantasize Him coming onto the set of Pat Robertson's 700 Club would be in order to give that boy a good tongue lashing or maybe even a well-deserved ass whipping. Do you remember that scene in the gospel when He physically attacked the money changers who He felt were desecrating His temple? Yes, the Big Guy was capable of losing His temper and on at least one occasion He did. I can just see it now: He'd wipe the floor with these knuckleheads!
IT'S THE (stupid) BASE, STUPID!
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
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» four gospels = cut & paste till the meaning / gist you want comes through
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» RE: One Jesus two men, let those who can hear, hear
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» Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for social justice
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» RE: Christ vs. Conservatism: A Serious Conflict
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» 10 "Commandments": Also a Serious Conflict
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» The “woes” are interesting too
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» RE: Christ vs. Conservatism: A Serious Conflict
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» RE: Christ vs. Conservatism: A Serious Conflict
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» RE: Christ vs. Conservatism: A Serious Conflict
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» The Beatitudes are a primer on the Ten Commandments
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» What Tom just said
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Posted by: Tom Degan on May 21, 2009 12:55 AM
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Even Billy Graham's message has less to do with the agenda of these ultra-right wing crazies then it does to that of the left. For sixty years now, his emphasis has been on love; Pure, untainted and unconditional love. While many progressives have tended to scorn him for his ties to the Nixon White House, since the 1940s he has actually raised, at the very least, a billion dollars for charity while he himself has always lived modestly. There has been an unfair tendency among some people in recent years to throw him in with the Jimmy Swaggarts and the Jim Bakkers. To do so is nothing short of slanderous. The truth is that he is really one of the good guys.
Mother Theresa's absolute devotion and dedication to the poor and down-trodden was a positively radical stand! I don't know the exact amount in contributions she raised for her flock over the years, but I'm sure it was well in excess of one-hundred million dollars. Do you think that she spent one penny of those charitable donations on a diamond mine in South Africa (ala Pat Roberson)? Do you believe that she used the money to promote gambling casinos on Indian reservations (ala Ralph Reed and the so-called "Christian" Coalition)? Do you seriously think that she donated one farthing to the campaigns of Newt Gingrich or Bill Frist or even fellow Catholics, John Kerry and Ted Kennedy? All of it went to the poor while she lived in poverty. She was a saint.
That is what we mean when we say that someone is "Christ-like". This is what we don't mean when we use the term, "Christ-like":
"Blessed are the meek, for they shall inherit the earth". Cutting billions from government programs that were put in place to ease the pain and suffering of the poor and dispossessed - the meek - is anything but Christ-like. That is pretty much of a no-brainer. Trust me on this one. Under the current administration, the meek have been getting the shaft.
Handing out a hideously bloated tax cut to people who already have more money than they know what to do with, while it may very well be satanic behavior - you'll get no argument from me there - it is hardly Christ-like.
"Blessed are the merciful, for they shall obtain mercy". In a 1999 interview with Tucker Carlson, Bush (in a feeble attempt at being "funny") mimicked the condemned Karla Faye Tucker pleading for her life. Hmm, call it a hunch but I've got a funny feeling that that wasn't very merciful. And don't forget that it was Bush who also sent over one hundred and fifty people to their deaths as governor of Texas - more than any other governor in American history. He would refuse to commute the sentences of people of questionable guilt - He wouldn't even review their cases! The 2000 presidential race was coming up and he just had to prove to the public that he was tough on crime. That's not very merciful either. As the late, great Lenny Bruce once observed, "Thou shalt not kill means just that"!
Tom Degan
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» Agree with everything you said except about Mother Theresa and I think you need to
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» Wise up on Mother Teresa, Tom
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» RE: Your Wrong about Mother Teresa.
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Posted by: Tom Degan on May 21, 2009 12:59 AM
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"Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do".
No. Sending one-hundred and fifty human beings to their deaths is not, to be sure, a very Christ-like act. They would have had better luck had they been stem cells.
Abraham Lincoln was a blessed and merciful man who, though not a true Christian in the strictest sense of the word, was, in reality, our most Christ-like president. He was known to go out of his way, finding loopholes to avoid executing a deserting soldier during the civil war. (Fortunately for Bush, capitol punishment for desertion was a thing of the past by the time he went AWOL from the Air National Guard in 1972) Any plea for mercy for the condemned man from a distraught mother or father never went unrewarded. Like Christ, Lincoln would end up being executed by the enemies of righteousness. At his first inaugural on March 4, 1861, he pleaded with the rebelling southerners to be guided by the "better angels" of their nature. Can you just imagine Dubya under the same circumstances?
"BRING 'EM ON"!
Now admit it! It makes you sick just thinking about it, doesn't it? C'mon, BE HONEST!
Finally: manufacturing cooked-up evidence in order to frighten a quarter of a billion people into signing on to a war that has easily slaughtered over one-hundred thousand men, women and little children, the sole purpose of which was to seize the second largest oil reserves on the planet and grease the coffers of a handful of well-connected corporate cronies may be a lot of things - In fact, it is many things - But it is not Christ-like. Not even in the least. Again, this is a no-brainer.
And as an admittedly flawed Catholic, let me remind my fellow members of the Church of Rome that the Vatican has twice, under two different popes, vehemently condemned America's incursion into Iraq in the strongest language possible. Any Catholic who supports this war should hang his or her head in shame.
I know that it is wrong to speak the mind of the Lord and I won't even attempt to do so. But it is a fairly easy call to say that He is not looking down and smiling at the carnage that has been inflicted on this troubled planet by this sick and sickening administration. This ain't rocket science, kiddies. This is what is known as, "Christianity 101".
I really have only one great fear. Do you want to know what it is? Going to hell. I'd like to get to Heaven but I'm not all that sure I will. I'm almost certain that, at the very least, I'll probably do some serious time in Purgatory. For many years, I smoked and drank to excess and for a few of those years I used drugs. I was at times careless, even thoughtless with respect to my relationships with women. Although I've spent the better amount of my time in recent years trying to make amends, I'm not at all certain that I'll ever be allowed to walk through dem ol' pearly gates.
But of this, I am absolutely certain: If, at the end of my life when I'm standing on the threshold of eternity and I find that I have been condemned to eternal damnation, it won't be because of the very public stand I took, from day one, against this disgusting administration. It will be in spite of it.
Pray for peace.
Tom Degan
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» don't worry, Tom
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» RE: Part Three
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» RE: As a fellow member of the Church of Rome, let me remind you ...
Posted by: stellabloo
» Dear stellaboo....
Posted by: Tom Degan
» One more thing, stellaboo....
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» RE: Dear Tom (since we seem to be on intimate terms now),
Posted by: stellabloo
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Posted by: Tom Degan on May 21, 2009 1:19 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Tom Degan
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» Rejoice, Tom! I have Good News!
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» Since no one has come back
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» no one has come back?
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» No there is something after death
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» What a bunch of BS.
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» Bullshit
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» You have to be an X-files fan.
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» RE: Please Note:
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» RE: Please Note:
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» If I may…
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» RE: The Left Can and should Embrace 'Faith'
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Posted by: villager1 on May 21, 2009 2:12 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wonder, outside of Billy Graham and Mother Theresa are there any real christians on this planet?
Interesting thought?
I do not consider myself worthy to be called a christian but am continually shocked at the behaviour of those who are fanatical about their christianity or religion!
It seems to me that mostly the claim to being obviously religious grants one the right to deviate from all the teachings of the good book.
Regardless of whether people believe or not, the ten commandments are the trademark by which we should live our lives and I would like to meet one man who can say truthfully that he has lived by those commandments!
Just one?
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» RE: villager
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» Mother Teresa??
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» RE:Billy Graham?????? PLEASE!!!! He was a racist, bigoted,
Posted by: bitsfick
» RE: villager
Posted by: osd
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Posted by: weathered on May 21, 2009 3:26 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What we don't see are enough of the givers, those of esteem, honor and humility. MSM puts them in a blackbox.
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» RE: Leave Christ out of it
Posted by: masthead
» RE: MSM puts them in a blackbox
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Leave Christ out of it
Posted by: hms2004
» Leave DNA out of it...
Posted by: yellow
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Posted by: smendler on May 21, 2009 4:01 AM
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» more like "willing to be banged 'til they bled"
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Posted by: kanekoa64 on May 21, 2009 4:26 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
artificial definitions that have become revolving door traps. To define actions and intention as either Good or Evil causes a temporary polarization and the eventual collision of both definitions as humans are unable to resist the attempt to excel at both at the same time and unintentionally, more often the opposite of the intended result.
I'm sure we all have wondered how the party that claims to be of superior moral fiber, stringent ethics and unwavering followers of the Bible have broken every tenant of the book without apparently being aware of the repercussions of their actions. It's as if, "Thou Shalt Not" doesn't apply to them, only to the unwashed "us's". From some twisted, unspoken agreement between the lot of them, they call themselves 'persecuted', but the truth is if anyone stands opposed to their narrow designs by any degree, they will incur real persecution, bordering on the seriously intrusive. Make the mistake of tripping the automated self entitlement reaction can create an avalanche of vitriolic wrath and fear along with an interpretive barrage of scripture misquoting to deny progress to any agenda deemed unholy along with free license moral and racial abuse given the Heavenly thumbs up by selectively editing out the inconvenient parts and lessons. Lying, cheating, stealing, murdering, enslavement, coveting, warmongering for profit, inciting fear and violence to maintain racial and social separation... nothing has proven beyond these self proclaimed foretellers of Gods wrath upon the rest of us, to the vindication of his faithful followers. Except there will be no vindication and there are no true followers. Only greedy, line cutting little liars who flash a fake backstage pass to a concert they missed, but bought a t-shirt or a poster for later, by a band with more players and songs than just the long haired guy they like so much. And half the songs they heard they never remembered the right lyrics for and the other half they never listened to, anyway.
If Heaven truly is what you make it, then WTF, man?
Religion has become a sanctuary for Evil.
And it's thriving.
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Posted by: BaconDatty on May 21, 2009 5:11 AM
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RT
Privacy Center
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» what's in a name?
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» RE: troll w/ toxic link
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
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Posted by: ProgressiveManiac on May 21, 2009 5:11 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This simple nostrum characterizes the Regan era and it has done a surprising amount of harm to the country and to the world. Of course greed can do some good when it motivates someone to invent some new technology, to write new music or to build a new business. But greed also leads people to slander, steal and cheat. Too many people find that the fastest way to satisfy their greed is to take advantage of others.
No, greed is not at all an unalloyed good. Great Christian thinkers like great Muslim thinkers, great Buddhist thinkers and great Atheist thinkers have long understood this and have generally treated greed more as a deadly sin than as something that is in any way good.
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» Reagan era
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» It's so hard to give that man an 'A'
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
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Posted by: lorenbliss on May 21, 2009 5:17 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But like so many other such critics, Mr. Laarman remains in total denial of the direct-line relationship that unites the theology of Genesis with capitalism and ultimately with capitalism's self-protective hybrid of theocracy and fascism. Thus he misses two gravely important points: that theofascism is already the governing ethos of the U.S., and that barring the emergence of some future equivalent of the Soviet Union, theofascism will eventually tyrannize the entire planet forever -- that is, until the “forever” is terminated by the extinction of the human species.
The answer to the implicit question of “why” is contained in the relationship itself. Genesis includes three unique doctrines that distinguish Abrahamic religions from any of their past or present counterparts. These are the principle of a male creator (a male god who brings the cosmos into being entirely by himself, without female help); the principle of women as not only unnecessary (and therefore inferior -- note again the Genesis creation tale) but damned and therefore implicitly evil; and the principle of “god’s chosen people,” a ruling class before whom all others are “ungodly” and therefore definitively inferior.
Hence our species is irrevocably alienated from nature even as man and woman are perpetually divorced from one another and we ourselves divided into warring camps -- by Abrahamic theology into infidels and believers; by fascism into ubermenschen and untermenschen; by capitalism into executives and workers, with those of us labeled workers further classified as “profitable” (exploitable for executive gain) or “unprofitable” (to be disposed of as quickly as possible). Thus is infinite greed elevated to ultimate virtue. Thus too not just a U.S. health care system deliberately designed to inflict what amounts to euthanasia by neglect and abandonment on the unprofitable -- that is, those of us who are chronically impoverished, elderly or disabled -- but the predictable and now increasingly obvious obstruction of any sort of meaningful healthcare reform.
The reason most critics of National Christianity overlook these connections is that they probably managed to avoid living in the South, where theocracy has been the dominant mode of governance since Reconstruction and where the relationship between Christianity, capitalism, fascism and imperialism are obvious in all aspects of life. The churches function as thought police in every sense of the word, building barricades of “Bible Truth” that, for example, make union organizing perpetually impossible. For those who resist, there is always the threat of punitive visits by the Saturday Night Men’s Bible Study Class -- the polite euphemism for the Ku Klux Klan.
Just as Genesis-based Christianity logically gave birth to capitalism, so did the self-protective instinct in capitalism logically give birth to fascism and thus comes full circle to the logical hybrid of U.S. theofascism. In Europe, the surviving pagan values implicit in the Golden Rule and humanism in general have thus far proven strong enough to resist the Christian impulse toward absolute tyranny. But here in what became the United States, all ameliorative voices were silenced by genocide. Thus the U.S. is the one truly “Christian” nation on the planet -- precisely why it is so self-righteously greedy and so ruthlessly vicious.
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» RE: Christianity, Capitalism, Fascism, Theofascism
Posted by: Aquinas
» RE: I read a different translation of Genesis
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» Femininity in the Genesis creation
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» RE: Femininity in the Genesis creation
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» RE: Femininity in the Genesis creation
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» RE: Femininity in the Genesis creation
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Posted by: teel on May 21, 2009 5:50 AM
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Posted by: Yankeeinexile on May 21, 2009 6:04 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Right now, I don't see much real investigative scrutiny, especially of the press covering business.
The jig ain't up. Reagan was Obama's hero, as said by him during the campaign. Now that he's left much of the current foreign policy in place, and let the banksters have everything they want, and big pharma dictate the new healthcare screwing of the public, what his presidency will aspire to is a softer, more acceptable Reaganism. One where you won't realize how screwed you are until after he leaves office. We will be bilked and we will love him and cheer him.
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Posted by: Bigioni on May 21, 2009 6:33 AM
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» RE: dangerous reefs which we must navigate cautiously between
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
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Posted by: ellie on May 21, 2009 6:33 AM
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it's all a matter of doing what is good for others and then yourself (you should run out of 'stuff' before you get to yourself)... greed and callousness are the problem...
the richest man in a tribal society is the one who has nothing... generosity till it hurts is the key (so shut down the $$ maker religious cults already)...
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» RE: glad...
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» RE: glad...
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» You might be pleasantly surprised
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Posted by: DrSuess on May 21, 2009 6:33 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In many issues the morality of the Christian right is totally confined to certain issues. If you go outside those narrow issues of abortion and homosexuality there seems to be a moral void.
I am a religious Christian who actually tries to live morality in my daily life. I simpathise with the religious right who stop at pronouncements on religion and who don't actually practice it in their lives. It is diffucult to actually live a moral life. It is much easier to be like Sara Palin and make all kinds of moral statements, and then go on and do whatever they want in daily life. Actually living morality on a daily basis is a constant case of thinking- 'is this good for all concerned?" sometimes you need to do things against your own self interest to be moral- and that can be hard to do.
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Posted by: ZPaul on May 21, 2009 6:35 AM
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More "Christians" should apply the first part of that verse to themselves, ask themselves if they are in effect doing what a thief does, and in passing, also read this verse:
"Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth." (Luke 12:15)
one more:
"The meek shall inherit the earth: and shall delight themselves in the abundance of peace."
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Posted by: Walks-in-Storms on May 21, 2009 6:38 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When hundreds, even thousands, of people here in South Texas begin to show the hideous effects of living near nuclear power plants - women, for insance are five times as likely to develop breast cancer - how do the CEOs and others who put the damned things here explain to their Christian god?
How do local newspapers and media who refuse to inform the public of the facts concerning exposure to airborn radiation, uranium-polluted water, and all the rest - facts like the aftermath of Three Miles Island - face their consciences?
Well, elsewhere here on AlterNet we have perhaps an explanation. How do you make repetitive drowning and reviving someone "waterboarding" and not torture? How do you explain "partial birth abortion?"
How do you practice Christianity and corporate capitalism? Just call yourself an "American."
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Posted by: Sojourner on May 21, 2009 6:38 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fortune is a god that is worshipped universally. That is not likely to change, so it is only by demonstrating the costs of such idol worship that religion can contribute to sustainability
Although the Puritans came to the New World to build a shining city on a hill where piety and purity guided the citizenry, the practices that allowed them to survive the hardships gave way to prosperity within a generation. It was the earliest settlers who now had the material the new immigrants needed. By selling land and building things that could not be brought aboard ship, the former indigent became wealthy in turn. The immigration from Europe and elsewhere has always been clothed in dreams of prosperity.
So, does religion then always succumb to circumstance? In most cases, yes, but not in all cases. Distributive justice is an undeveloped notion, in ethics as well as religion. That may change if ever sustainability assumes its rightful place in our thinking and living. Our survival now depends on that.
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Posted by: rgd on May 21, 2009 6:43 AM
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» And I don't see "blessed are the rich" anywhere in the sermon on the mount.
Posted by: Sojourner
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Posted by: LeeAnnG on May 21, 2009 6:47 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone who saw Senator Lynn Westmoreland's appearance on the Colbert Report awhile back realizes that his insistence on the 10 commandments as public moral guidelines has nothing to do with what they actually say. Westmoreland was unable to list the commandments. I believe he remembered three of them! Yet before Colbert asked him to list them, he said that the failure to follow them was at the core of our moral decline, particularly among youth.
Few of the Christians I know actually read the Bible or know what Christ is supposed to have said on the Mount. One Christian acquaintance told me he believes in the Bible literally. So I asked him if he really thinks Noah was able to fit two of every animal in the world on an ark the size of a football field, that the predators survived without eating their prey, and that Noah managed to get to Australia to gather up the kangaroos and koalas. His answer was that it doesn't matter, that it's the essence of the Bible he believes in. Of course, I had to point out to him that the word "literal" has a literal meaning, and that "essence" does not qualify.
Hypocrisy is often a trademark of the religiously self-righteous. So, of course, is ignorance. I can almost understand the need some people have to believe in mythology and even to select certain dogma as truth in the face of huge amounts of evidence to the contrary. People tend to believe in whatever makes them comfortable or whatever fullfills certain needs. But I don't understand how people can say they believe in something when they haven't read the book that describes their faith. I suppose, however, that when this book is a compilation of various contradictory ancient texts that have been translated multiple times throughout the ages, studying it is likely to produce more questions than answers.
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» "Hypocrisy is often a trademark of the religiously (and all other) self-righteous."
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: Ignorance
Posted by: mrbillwilson
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Posted by: SufiLizard on May 21, 2009 6:50 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My particular denomination has been less susceptible than most to the "greed is good" pseudo-theology, but I can't deny it has even made inroads here.
The good news is, there seems to be a deep change going on throughout Christianity.
Because let's face it, The Bible contains more than 300 verses on the poor, social justice, and God's deep concern for both. I think there is a quiet shift occurring in Christianity where people are starting to realize this fact.
For the past 30 years or so, Christians have been focused on abortion and homosexuality with tunnel vision, but how many times did Christianity's namesake mention abortion or homosexuality in all the texts we have? A combined ZERO.
But Jesus was pretty clear about helping the poor and condemning the rich. Why are all these Biblical literalists so silent about that?
And isn't Pat Robertson on the board of directors of the Royal Bank of Scotland after claiming that very institution was an instrument of the Antichrist a few years back?
Hypocrisy has been rife in Christianity for centuries, but at it's core, it's still a faith based on peace, social justice and 'one love.'
Please remember that for every Christian responsible for hypocrisy, greed, persecution and violence, there is one quietly, and selflessly working for social justice. The latter just doesn't have an expensive PR machine telling her story.
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» At this point, I no longer care.
Posted by: Eddie Van Helsing
» RE: The Times They Are a' Changin'? Your an Example...
Posted by: kanekoa64
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Posted by: Tom Degan on May 21, 2009 6:51 AM
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"I love Jesus. It's Christians that I have a bit of a problem with".
Or words to that effect.
Tom Degan
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» The actual quote was:
Posted by: left-leaning-libertarian
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Posted by: Eddie Van Helsing on May 21, 2009 6:52 AM
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Posted by: vasumurti on May 21, 2009 7:09 AM
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Jesus told the multitudes to seek eternal treasures in heaven rather than pursue temporary, earthly gain. He insisted upon the self-sacrifice and renunciation of possessions and family ties and duties. (Matthew 6:19-21, 6:24-34, 8:21-22, 10:34-39, 19:20-21,29; Luke 9:57-62, 12:51-53, 14:25-26,33; James 5:1-3)
Jesus had no interest in disputes over money and property. (Luke 12:13-14) He taught that life is meant for more than the accumulation of material goods. He condemned those who lay up treasures for themselves, but are not rich towards God. (Luke 12:15-21) In his parable of Lazarus and the Rich Man, Jesus expressed concern for materialistic persons (Luke 16:19-31).
Jesus taught that it is hard for those attached to earthly riches to enter the kingdom of God. (Matthew 19:16-24; Mark 10:17-23; Luke 18:18-25) His apostles lead lives of voluntary poverty; sharing their possessions with one another. Those among the brethren who did not do so were condemned. (Acts 2:44, 5:1-11)
"He who loves his life will lose it," taught Jesus, "and he who hates his life in this world will keep it for eternal life...For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and loses his own soul?" (Matthew 16:26; Mark 8:36; Luke 9:25; John 12:25)
Paul said, "Piety with contentment is great gain indeed; for we brought nothing into the world and, obviously, we can carry nothing out. When we have food and clothing, we shall be content with these. Those who are eager to be rich fall into temptation and a snare, and into numerous thoughtless and hurtful cravings that plunge people into destruction and ruin.
"For the love of money is the root of all evil. In striving for it, some have wandered away from the faith...But you, O man of God, shun these things and go after righteousness, godliness, faith, love, patience, gentleness." (I Timothy 6:6-11)
Gambling preys upon those who can least afford it—the people of lower income. The National Commission of Gambling estimated in 1983 that there were over a million compulsive gamblers nationwide. The Commission predicted that as gambling gradually becomes legal across the country, this figure will eventually reach three million.
The first treatment center for compulsive gamblers was built outside Baltimore, Maryland, in 1982. Compulsive gamblers often run into enormous financial hardships--borrowing or even stealing from others, including their own families.
Heavy debt becomes a hard fact of life for compulsive gamblers. They sleep poorly, and become indifferent towards eating and affection. Tense and irritable, they often drink, and may even consider suicide.
Since the advent of legalized gambling, per capita crime in the Atlantic City area has tripled. A police check of records at different casinos there wound over one million dollars loaned to 25 underworld figures.
One survey of police enforcement of gambling laws found that 80 percent of the police believe profits from illegal gambling are used to finance other illegal activities, such as loan-sharking. In half of the cities surveyed, local independent criminal organizations were said to control gambling operations.
Conservative Protestants have traditionally taken a stand against gambling. The Puritans of Massachusetts enacted America’s first law against gambling in 1638. In 1682, the Quakers in Pennsylvania passed their own law against gambling and "such like enticing, vain, and evil sports and games." During the period from 1830 to 1860, lotteries were banned across America. By 1908, nearly every state in the nation had banned horse racing.
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» RE: I don't think it was gambling he was complaining about
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Gambling is in the eye of the beholder
Posted by: solrev
» That's because gambling is one form of things it does mention
Posted by: truthlover
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Posted by: ReallyBearish on May 21, 2009 7:32 AM
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It happens that the Calvinists (Puritans) got here first and established this notion into the American psyche, but it exists anywhere Calvinism resides.
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Posted by: JefffromCA on May 21, 2009 8:13 AM
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Posted by: solrev on May 21, 2009 8:22 AM
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» Christian= cross worshipper
Posted by: leafsong1
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Posted by: alturn on May 21, 2009 8:30 AM
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“Market forces — Market forces are the forces of wickedness, confusion and chaos, and its children are competition and comparison. Market forces are satanic forces. Market forces lead to ‘mine’ and ‘more’ (ie, possessiveness and greed) and there is no end to it. Market forces will bring this civilization, as we have known it, to the edge of disaster.”
“The essence of market forces is greed and separatism. The more one is attached to these forces, the more they create cells of imprisonment. This leads to spiritual bankruptcy and mental disequilibrium.”
“The energy which is wreaking havoc in the world now through storms, earthquakes and volcanic eruptions have been unleashed because man thinks he can do what he likes. He believes that if he has a healthy bank balance he has a healthy life. But greed drives him to destruction, said the associate. Spiritually and mentally he is bankrupt.“
“Happiness — Human beings are looking for happiness such as is found in the lap of the mother. You will find happiness when you begin to realize that the Almighty is always with you, 24 hours of the day. Then you will experience freedom from within. There is no room then for unhappiness, greed or anger.“
“If you are attached to the body, you will find that there is no end to material desires and sensual gratifications. Greed grows, the search continues, and satisfaction always eludes you. If you are attached to the mind, you can become entangled in thought constructions, ideologies, “isms” to which there is no end. The more you search, the further afield you go, the more you find, there will always be unknown regions. In fact, you can get lost here. You do not feel fulfilled.“
“Market forces are the antithesis of freedom and salvation. (the writer of the article adds: Maitreya has developed this theme over the years, in the sense that market forces are now too powerful. We have become their slaves, whereas the aim is and should be to master them. The only way to do so is to establish right priorities, initially the feeding and sheltering of many millions who are in dire need. The sense of security this will create will itself do much to calm people’s fear and the greed which has its roots in fear. When most people have “enough”, then many will no longer feel the need to chase after more and more. Gross inequality will no longer be the destabilizing force it is at present.)"
“Once someone knows ‘the Lord is with him’ he can give up greed.“
The current societal obsession with greed, and all religions being guilty to a greater or lesser degree of turning a blind eye to this disease, is one of the reasons that Maitreya is not already known to the general public.
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on May 21, 2009 8:44 AM
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Posted by: willymack on May 21, 2009 8:51 AM
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Posted by: salamah on May 21, 2009 10:35 AM
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» RE: Saul - was the one who said that women were not allowed to speak in church.
Posted by: stellabloo
» Nope
Posted by: Philip Newton
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Posted by: draco40 on May 21, 2009 12:03 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Christian right wing TV preachers (who may not even believe in Christ and can be downright scary if one sees films of Hitler spewing forth) take advantage of the generally well-meaning if misled Christian masses and all Christians get the bony finger of accusation of greed pointed at them. Terrific.
One might as well make similar accusations against,say, Jews based on the sad excesses of Hollywood or certain Wall Street types; or of Buddhists because of certain Asian leaders who claim they are Buddhists yet ignore the teachings (tear them to shreds) by thuggery and bloody domination of their countries to maintain personal excessive lifestyles; etc.
Why do Christians have to be greedy? Might as well ask why humans have to be greedy.
Mal y soit qui honi pense
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» RE: The author of this article did not say "all Christians"
Posted by: ZPaul
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Posted by: okcsteve on May 21, 2009 12:07 PM
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I think the real question we need to ask is why so many born on 3rd base with regards to understanding social justice types are so judgemental of these people who don't know any better. I live in Oklahoma City and am honestly fed up with the people on the coasts that don't give a damn about people. You want to pretend this "Democratic majority" will last??? Sorry...it will swing just like it did last time, and for the same reason....you MUST STOP WRITING THESE PEOPLE OFF AS IF THEY ARE STUPID!!! Its like the great Christian singer Rich Mullins always said...they aren't bad, just wrong. Quit being such snobs, damn it!
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» RE: Strict Upbringings has nothing to do with it
Posted by: VZEQICVA
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Posted by: stellabloo on May 21, 2009 12:09 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Promoting 'Spiritual Capital'
... Dr. Theodore Roosevelt Malloch ... claims that business and religion share many features.
The Metanexus Institute of Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania, defines spiritual capital as "the effects of spiritual and religious practices, beliefs, networks and institutions that have a measurable impact on individuals, communities and societies."
It's a concept with a long history, going back to classical works like Max Weber's The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism. It goes back even further, to the Calvinist emphasis on the need for hard work, since success in the secular world is a sign of personal salvation. Spiritual capital could be a useful concept in humanizing the marketplace. But the money and interests behind it indicates it is being used to co-opt spirituality for corporate and political purposes.
Metanexus and Malloch together received $2 million from the Templeton Foundation to set up an organization called the Spiritual Enterprise Institute and disseminate the view that spiritual values underpin successful capitalist ventures.
John Templeton, who died in 2008, was a high priest of capitalism who built a billion-dollar fortune selling global mutual funds and moving to the Bahamas to avoid paying taxes. Templeton began his company's annual meetings with prayers, he said, to clear the minds of shareholders. It worked. His foundation has assets of $1.5 billion and gives away $70 million a year, largely to projects that promote the convergence of science and religion.
Malloch, with a PhD in international political economy from the University of Toronto, moves easily among the private, public and non-profit sectors. He's worked for Wharton-Chase Econometrics, Salomon Brothers, the U.S. Senate Foreign Relations Committee, the World Economic Forum, and the United Nations. He's connected to the neo-conservative Hudson Institute, which advocates the abolition of government-backed social security, an end to corporate income taxes and a pre-emptive military strike against Iran.
Malloch has worked on many Republican presidential campaigns. In the 2008 election, he supported the most conservative Republican candidate, Fred Thompson, the former senator from Tennessee and Law and Order actor.
In short, this pernicious line of thinking enables the wealthiest people of the world to maintain a facade of righteousness while shamelessly stepping on the bodies of the other 99.999% of humanity. I.e. If you don't happen to be filthy rich then obviously God doesn't like you very much and you deserve whatever you get. We need to root these arrogant bastards where ever they are - and where ever their tax shelter might be - and exorcize them where it hurts.
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» The money changers always hang around the temple.
Posted by: Sojourner
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Posted by: Lilly on May 21, 2009 12:23 PM
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» Our Pilgrims left Holland because they wanted to keep their own customs.
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: Parallel But Unequal
Posted by: undrgrndgirl
» RE: Parallel But Unequal
Posted by: Sojourner
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Posted by: undrgrndgirl on May 21, 2009 1:05 PM
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» Do you know "Godly Letters: The Literature of the American Puritans by Colacurcio"?
Posted by: Sojourner
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Posted by: kogwonton on May 21, 2009 3:46 PM
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Ezekiel 28 begins by telling the story of the king of Tyre. Tyre was one of the wealthiest of kingdoms due to their abundant commerce with other nations. The story quickly morphs into the story of a spiritual being of high office, who coincidentally is both a king and priest who wears a breastplate of twelve stones nearly identical in description to that of the High Priest of the Hebrew temple.
This king of Tyre, which is used in classical Christian doctrine as part of the basis for the Devil's 'fallen angel' status, had been appointed as a 'covering cherub' who 'walked between the stones of fire'.
Now here is the irony.
This 'covering cherub' had his 'heart filled with violence' because of the sheer volume of his 'commerce', and his wealth created in him vanity sufficient to call himself a god.
Funny that commerce (capitalism) would be the very thing that led to pride, which is considered the Devil's first sin.
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Posted by: vasumurti on May 21, 2009 5:32 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"This is a point that must have been very hard for the early followers of Jesus because he insisted, in every instance, that they put loyalty to him above loyalty to their families, and he put it in very strident terms: ‘Unless you leave behind your wife, your family, and come and follow me, you can’t be my disciple.’...
"Now, somehow or other, over the years we’ve made Jesus into a kind of blessing of the patriarchal bourgeois family. There’s not one single text anywhere in the teachings of Jesus that supports this. Jesus is a person who’s calling people to something that is more important than family."
Dr. Cox sees Eastern spirituality as an alternative to the mass consumerism and crass materialism of the West:
"In American society, I believe we’re now in the late phase, the most deteriorated, decadent phase of consumer capitalism. When I say ‘consumer capitalism,’ I don’t mean simply the form of our economic life; I mean our whole culture. It’s not just a capitalist economic system. It’s a capitalistic culture, with personal lifestyles, values, morality, and meaning perceptions all in some measure shaped by this underlying ethos. And all this means that the value of the person is greatly underrated.
"People’s primal energies are fixated on commodities that are supposed to bring satisfaction of inner hungers. Through the suggestive and hypnotic powers of the advertising industry, a direct connection is made from very basic things which satisfy those needs; but of course they do not. Furthermore, the life pattern is pretty well set out through educational, occupational, and career structures which define for people the meaning of success in material terms, and in a way that people think that they’re making choices. But they’re actually being coerced and manipulated into a structure which really does not pay off in terms of genuine spiritual satisfaction.
"The result...is the creation of a lot of unsatisfied hungers and unresolved fears which turn into anger and violence. I think a lot of the violence in our society is a result of this...Ultimately, I become angry at the whole society that is the cause of my unfulfillment, and there’s a tendency to take that frustration out on other people. So I think the whole web of violence in our society is related to this in ways that are not explored thoroughly enough by psychologists.
"Now, from my point of view, what Christianity should be doing in this country is providing an alternative to this capitalist-consumer ethos, in terms of personal values and ultimate meaning. There are a few Christians who are doing it, but the vast majority of people who call themselves Christians are, in fact, completely caught up in this un-Christian value system."
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Posted by: MotherLodeBeth on May 21, 2009 6:06 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a Christian I live in a community where all the churches not only make sure the less advantaged amongst their own but we make sure those in the general community are cared for.
I attend a small 'cowboy church' that still sets aside money each month to help with energy bills, car repairs, medication etc. We also have a large church garden and this week three members came by to help rototiller a larger area in my back yard for my own garden since I love fresh vegetables and have neighbors whom I will share the bounty with.
Personally I think many Americans confuse the televangelist who rakes in tens of millions of dollars per year and live wealthy lives, with the majority of Christians who live quiet lives in towns and cities, usually overlooked by the media who prefers hype stories that get ratings.
Look at Cecil Williams of San Francisco's Glide Memorial Church who has helped millions. Or what about the small white or brick church in rural communities throughout the states who daily, go about doing the Lords work? With mottos 'What you do to the least of them you do to me...Christ'.
Mayabe if the media (alternet.org included) would spend more time looking at the positive people wouldnt be so jaded or sadly, depressed.
~Beth~
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» RE: There are more good than bad Christians.....
Posted by: yale
» Alternet get lots of attention for posting religious hate speech
Posted by: Philip Newton
» Attention whores? religion is cancer and needs attention.
Posted by: yale
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Posted by: yale on May 21, 2009 6:22 PM
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Posted by: PaulK on May 21, 2009 6:45 PM
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"Thou shalt not make graven images" -- God, the Third Commandment. This refers equally to money and to statues of other gods. Roman emperors regularly named themselves as gods, had people burn incense to them and worship them as gods, got their own months of the year along with the other gods, and put their ugly mugs on the empire's coins.
"Show me a coin" -- Jesus. This was a way to get the Pharisees to admit that they weren't following the Third Commandment. "Whose likeness is on the coin?"
"Caesar's"
"Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's, render unto God what is God's".
So, how actually Christian is money? Contradiction city?
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» RE: Mammon is another name for money
Posted by: kogwonton
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Posted by: capitanfracasso on May 21, 2009 8:02 PM
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Posted by: Wrighty on May 21, 2009 11:16 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
male, 40+
white
blue-collar
southern state but not always
married
gun-loving
pro-hunting and killing of...anything, including people, that annoy them (and that's a lot of people)
war-loving, Bush and Cheney can do no wrong. Obama merely has to wake up and breathe in the morning and they go ballistic
muslim or islam-hating sometimes to extremes (yet strangely affiliated to Gulf money and oil, being managed by Arabs for them no less)
homophobic (failing to realize gay men and women also work oilfields, pipelines and the banks and set up their ETFs and unit trusts for little Bobby-Sue-Corinne to go through college)
tax-avoiders (always looking for ways to avoid paying tax)
Devoutly religious. In and among all this hate, greed and self-obsession with what is 'right'.
That's just scratching the surface with these peoples psyche.
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Posted by: Artkansas on May 22, 2009 3:40 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What could be greedier than that?
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Posted by: itsthemedication on May 22, 2009 4:10 AM
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Likewise, when I open to ACTS and read about the socialistic early church complete with the phrase and "to each according to their needs," and then watch the GOP demonize all social programs, I have to wonder how the people accept these "leaders" as Christians. They most certainly are not Christians,.
As for the bankers, do we need to go there? There was only one group of people that made Christ mad enough to violently strike out. Yet as they flaunt every ursary rule ever followed by reasonable men, they will also call themselves Christian. Well, no, you're not.
I keep looking for Christian leadership, but it is a lonely vigil, because at its roots it truly is a very difficult religion to live by. Especially in a greed driven capitalistic country that badly wants to be an Empire, but was born of the egalitarian enlightenment philosophy.
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Posted by: Rev. Ian on May 22, 2009 7:52 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Indeed, the author says there are "significant numbers of serious Christian theologians" who "argue" that "unfettered capitalism represents God's plan for human thriving." Excuse me? Exactly what does the writer mean by "significant numbers?" Even more importantly, what criteria is he using for "serious Christian theologians?" Since he does not make any attempt to define either of these phrases, his claims are prima facie suspect.
More cogently, however, is that the author completely overlooks the truest form of "Christian economics," as stated clearly and overtly in the New Testament by Paul:
"And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that ought of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common...Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,and laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need." (Acts 4:32-35)
Get that? "From each according to his ability to provide, to each according to his need." It is a supreme irony that it was CHRISTIANS - not Marx - who first developed economic "communism" (or, more correctly, communalism) - and then Marx not only stole it, but turned around and called religion "the opium of the masses." Perhaps he was trying to cover up his theft...
Ultimately, the only "economic plan" specifically spoken of in the New Testament is the one above - which is about as far from capitalism as it can possibly be. Yet not one reporter or pundit that I have ever read has had the courage to state this.
Peace.
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» Amen
Posted by: Philip Newton
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Posted by: mikeblack on May 22, 2009 10:28 AM
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» Do you?
Posted by: Philip Newton
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Posted by: bitsfick on May 22, 2009 2:31 PM
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Posted by: Philip Newton on May 22, 2009 3:14 PM
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Why does Alternet constantly try to lump believing Christians in with these folks? Probably because they are just as ignorant and prejudiced as those they condemn.
Before you go plastering your anti-Christian views on the Internet, try picking up a book or two on comparative religions.
Or, just go ahead and display your ignorance and further marginalize your already irrelevant positions.
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Posted by: kenhymes on May 22, 2009 6:31 PM
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Of course you can find the horrible Calvinists and reactionary pastors. Church in general is trending left and shares progressive values, mirroring almost exactly the society as a whole. The hating and namecalling is a stumbling block in the way of potentially powerful alliances between religious people and secular activists. Let's work for justice and peace, not try to win a pointless battle about cosmology.
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Posted by: Migmig on May 22, 2009 8:02 PM
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Posted by: Philip Newton on May 22, 2009 9:18 PM
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They yanked that, plus a couple of rather innocuous replies. Guess a post just has to say "Philip Newton" for the thin-skinned ones to pull it.
But the most hate-filled drivel remains. They even pay for it.
Sad, oh self-indulgent ones.
Build the wall a little higher. Become even more irrelevant than you are today.
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Posted by: kanekoa64 on May 23, 2009 4:47 AM
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And if they believed, they'd know how badly their religion needs retooling and might benefit from a more stringent admission policy. It's way too easy to say your a Christian to invoke the Bible to justify Racism, Sexism and secular violence, to name only three of the sins that seem to be the most popular in terms of justifying. Greed? Well, you don't want the pagans to get any of those paper promises with "In God We Trust" written on them, do we?
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Posted by: Walks-in-Storms on May 23, 2009 10:15 AM
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We know, but we insist on shooting ourselves in the foot. We're nuts - "First base!"
Abott and Costello, anyone?
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Posted by: reelman on May 23, 2009 11:50 AM
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Of course we all also know that proclaimed atheists hide their money in devious ways and seek all they can get...
try posting some premise that actually is valid.
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» America the most charitable nation in the history of the world?
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Another false premise!
Posted by: Wrighty
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Posted by: leafsong1 on May 24, 2009 7:57 AM
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Motivated self interest is an effective economic machine, but a machine is useless unless it is harnessed to serve a greater good.
The pursuit of wealth and the pursuit of happiness are not synonymous, and are often antithetical.
There is much more to be said.
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Posted by: ceti on May 25, 2009 2:14 PM
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“Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.” Then the righteous will answer Him, “Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food, or thirsty and gave you something to drink? And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you, or naked and gave you clothing? And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you?” And the king will answer them, “Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family,* you did it to me.”’
On the other hand, he will reproach the bad nations:
“You that are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not give me clothing, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.” Then they also will answer, “Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not take care of you?” Then He will answer them, “Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.” And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.’
The meaning is pretty damn clear. Those nations that provided for the "least of these" will be accepted in heaven, those nations that cruelly turned away the "least" will be condemned for all eternity. Socialism vs. Laissez Faire Darwinian Capitalism right there in the Bible.
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» RE: The Judgement of Nations
Posted by: 66mustang
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Posted by: ruruben on Jun 15, 2009 8:03 PM
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