comments_imageCOMMENTS: 24

Good News, There's a Climate Bill -- Bad News, It Stinks

Sparing the many odiferous details, here are three particularly bad aspects that have to be addressed.
May 19, 2009  |  
 
 
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First, the good news: One of the most comprehensive pieces of energy and climate legislation ever drafted by members of the U.S. Congress has finally seen the light of day. After lots of haggling among fellow moderate and conservative Democrats, Representatives Henry Waxman (D-CA) and Edward Markey (D-MA) released their "American Clean Energy and Security Act of 2009."

Now the bad news: Their bill stinks. I'll spare you the many odiferous details and just highlight three particularly bad aspects: 1) It won't protect the poor from price-hikes as the price of carbon is slowly internalized into our energy bills, but will protect polluting industries by allowing them free pollution permits; 2) It opens the door to fraud and shell games instead of real climate action by setting up a huge carbon derivatives market; 3) It makes a mockery of our common understanding of "renewable energy," favoring dirty smokestacks over truly clean, renewable energy.

Right out of the starting gate, the bill provides a ridiculous number of giveaways to industry -- something President Barack Obama campaigned against as unfair to consumers: Upwards of 85 percent of pollution allowances are being given away for free to the electricity sector, with many of these free permits not phasing out until 2030. This means little to none of the revenues coming into the public coffers from this "cap and trade" scheme will be used to protect low and moderate households from energy price increases, as envisioned by Obama.

This bill would open up the single largest market in carbon in the world, with the potential to reach $2 trillion by 2020. Not only would the Waxman-Markey bill allow for carbon trading between industries, it would open up the so-called "sub-prime carbon" market in carbon offsets -- whereby industries can claim emissions reductions by investing in various projects around the world that theoretically reduce greenhouse gas emissions. The legislation allows 2 billion tons of carbon offsets -- half from developing countries and half from domestic sources -- which represents almost 30 percent of all U.S. greenhouse gas emissions.

Yet the Government Accountability Office (GAO) claims it's virtually impossible to verify whether carbon offsets represent real emissions reductions. And numerous other studies have found that carbon offsets in developing countries often subsidize business-as-usual projects such as hundreds of large hydropower dams in China, many of which were already under construction when they claimed to be providing "emissions reductions."

Industrial hog farms have found ways of tapping the carbon offset market without making the slightest contribution toward getting society off its fossil fuel addiction. The logic is this: If you capture and flare methane from pig manure, you are turning methane (a potent global warming gas) into CO2 (a less potent global warming gas). Pig farms benefit by selling that difference in greenhouse gas potency to big fossil fuel polluters as a carbon offset, allowing them to continue their business as usual.

And if "carbon offsets" are a misleading term, the words "renewable energy," as used in this bill, have an Orwellian ring. Do you think "renewable energy" means windmills or solar panels? Think again. The windmills and solar panels of our renewable energy dreams are being supplanted by the smokestacks of our nightmares. All it takes is a little imagination -- and a high-paid lobbyist -- to claim that just about anything is "renewable energy."

Take biomass burners: There are plans afoot to cut down 100-year-old trees, throw them into a burner, and call this "renewable energy." Never mind that trees can't match coal for stored energy, which would make it necessary to plant whole planets of trees to fuel industry. Just focus your mind on the idea that they grow back!

Or consider the municipal solid waste incinerator duplicitously recast as "waste to energy" projects. This waste could otherwise be recycled (generating 10 times as many green jobs as an incinerator, by the way) or composted, providing rich fertilizer. But, in the twisted logic of the Waxman-Markey universe, incinerators are "renewable" because there is an endless supply of waste going to landfills; if one burns that waste and turns the heat into energy -- presto, change-o -- this, too, becomes a "renewable" form of energy. This in spite of the fact that burning garbage produces more CO2 per unit of electricity generated than the dirtiest coal power plants.

While industry lobbyists may have worked their magic tricks on members of Congress in the name of "bold climate legislation," Planet Earth is likely to remain unmoved by these sleights of hand. At 385 parts per million CO2 and rising, our atmosphere is on a steady course to climate catastrophe unless these charlatans and their henchmen in Congress get real. Though the pigs may rule in Animal Farm, they shouldn't be running our climate politics.


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Daphne Wysham is a Fellow at the Institute for Policy Studies, co-director of the Sustainable Energy & Economy Network, and co-host of Earthbeat Radio.
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Comments are closed-

what did you think would happen?
Posted by: johnwinthrop on May 19, 2009 4:01 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
you want less use of carbon doxide? Ban it, regulate it, tax it. That's how it works in a quasicaptialist society. any of these solutions make not just oil companies mad, or scientists who don't buy IPCC computer models, but average working class people who have to heat and cool their homes NOW, use a car NOW to get to work and to shop, and who work in offices and factories that are heated and cooled by carbon. No carbon, no job.

This is all irrelevant to the true believers. Kind of like the folks to who travelled to the USSR in the 1920's, claimed they saw the future, said the future were happy peasants, and didn't notice that there were few peasants about, most having starved under Comrade Stalin's regulations. Party members did an excellent job of pretending to be peasants, with much better smiles and teeth than peasants ever had.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

One Step at a Time
Posted by: Sparks56 on May 19, 2009 4:04 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'll take progress where i can get it, even in a flawed energy bill. Look where we were 2, 4. 6, 8 years ago. Given the economic situation and the eternal conservative drumbeat of global warming denial, the fact that an environmental bill was even debated, let alone passed, is real progress. Dictatorship is quick. Democracy is slow.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Price? Posted by: Sparks56
» CopOut Posted by: james108
» RE: CopOut Posted by: Sparks56

Comments are closed-

polluters' army
Posted by: mwildfire on May 19, 2009 6:58 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wonder how many of them are being paid, these people who post on every story about climate change with their denialist talking points?
It's quite true, as johnwinthrop implies, that many people don't believe in climate change. But I notice that the overwhelming majority of the world's scientists do--odds are, they're right. Your car and computer would not exist if scientists hadn't done the work on which they're based--but people want to grab the nice toys that science produces, then declare they don't believe in science when it discovers a big problem with some of those toys.
A real climate bill WOULD increase the cost of energy produced in ways that emit greenhouse gases, as most conventional sources do. This WOULD impact low-income consumers more. That's why James Hansen wants to toss this whole cap-and-trade approach, proven by the EU to be ineffective, and just put a tax on carbon emissions--with the proceeds--100% of them--to be returned to consumers, as monthly checks (or it could be done as a reduction or elimination of income taxes). It's true that there are good things that could be done with some of the money, like invest in R & D for green energy or cushion the blow for coal miners, etc who lose out in the transition. But Hansen argues that letting Congress decide what to do with that money opens the way to corrupting influence, and notes that Americans don't trust Congress, ha ha. Like somehow we have the idea that Congress represents the corporations that contribute to their campaigns and not the people. That's why single-payer health insurance is off the table; it's why there is always a war and "defense" gets over half of all government money, even though we now spend more on it than all other countries combined; and it's why so many pundits and the other commenter above, urge us to support this turkey of a bill. It's slightly better than nothing, and we should rejoice and seize it! It's progress! Only trouble is, that pesky thing, science: it says we're in the very last years in which we can avert catastrophic climate change later this century, and now only by drastic reductions, not 17% by 2020, if even that much survives the further-watering down by the Senate. The reality is that Congress is even more corrupt than the public supposes--there is essentially no chance that they will pass a bill remotely near adequate before the water's submerging the Capitol. The change we need must come some other way, and it's hard to see how, when the public is easily misled by the PR appendages of the monsters we created and called corporations.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» clearing the air for once Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: polluters' army Posted by: oregoncharles

Comments are closed-

This issue has to be addressed at the individual and local level before the feds will do anything
Posted by: tommy_slothrop on May 19, 2009 9:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The federal politicians are too dependent upon corporate money.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

A REVENUE-NEUTRAL Carbon Tax!
Posted by: Evan Ravitz on May 19, 2009 10:12 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Simple taxation of CO2 (carbon tax) with reductions to income, etc. taxes to give the govt the same income (revenue-neutral) is what most economists and humans favor. Congress is sealing the fate of the human race. 65% of Americans were ready in 1997 to cut greenhouse gases according to a NY Times/CBS poll: http://vote.org/initiatives?q=node/1272 Another reason we need NATIONAL ballot initiatives so we can act when Congress doesn't represent: http://Vote.org

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Assholes rule
Posted by: willymack on May 19, 2009 10:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As long as that's the case, there'll be NO meaningful change for the better.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Stop the global warming/cap and trade scam
Posted by: Antonio Sosa on May 19, 2009 11:21 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No patriotic and informed American can support the global warming/cap and trade scam, more fraudulent than any Nigerian scam. Cap and trade is a huge tax on the poor and the middle class designed to give the powers of a dictator to Obama and to further enrich his billionaire friends (Gore, Soros, Goldman Sachs, Obama’s Chicago Climate Exchange friends, GE, etc.)

Cap and Trade “would be the equivalent of an atomic bomb directed at the U.S. economy—all without any scientific justification,” says famed climatologist Dr. S. Fred Singer. It would significantly increase taxes and the cost of energy, forcing many companies to close, thus increasing unemployment, poverty and dependence.

Those brainwashed to the point of wanting to destroy the economy to "prevent global warming" remind us of primitive humans who believed that killing and sacrificing others would ensure them good weather. Human beings don't have the power to control climate!

More and more scientists and thinking people all over the world are realizing that man-made global warming is a hoax that threatens our future and the future of our children. More than 700 international scientists dissent over man-made global warming claims. They are now more than 13 times the number of UN scientists (52) who authored the media-hyped IPCC 2007 Summary for Policymakers. http://www.climatechangefraud.com/content/view/3562/218/

Additionally, more than 30,000 American scientists have signed onto a petition that states, "There is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gases is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth's atmosphere and disruption of the Earth's climate." http://www.petitionproject.org

We pray that honest leaders – both Democrat and Republican - are able to save us from Obama's criminal global warming/cap-and-trade scam.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Is Waxman-Markey irrelevant in terms of actual climate impact?
Posted by: Paolo on May 19, 2009 12:11 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is an interesting article that basically says that the climate impacts of Waxman-Markey, even if implemented completely as written, would be basically irrelevant.

http://masterresource.org/?p=2355

“A full implementation and adherence to the long-run emissions restrictions provisions described by the Waxman-Markey Climate Bill would result only in setting back the projected rise in global temperatures by a few years—a scientifically meaningless prospect.”

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Karlin
Posted by: Noah_Scape on May 19, 2009 2:00 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This climate bill is like an introduction to the real solution, just an educational tool that tells industry and the public that there is a problem with CO2. "CO2 is bad, therefore we are going to put a price on emissions".

But ya, I agree - it won't work. It won't actually reduce emissions, it is just going to produce more accounting tricks.

Picture the future world of abundant clean energy - what do you see? You see [real] renewable energy, as in windmills and solar and wave/tidal generators of electricity - and the power sources for true renewable energy systems exist without humans doing anything [i.e. wind and sun].

This climate bill does very little to push us towards that future... and really, there isn't much of a future without renewable energy contributing a significant portion of our total energy use.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

It took forever to look up "nuclear".
Posted by: PaulK on May 19, 2009 2:21 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I originally heard from a questionable source that Waxman-Markey was tainted by a gung-ho attitude toward nuclear. I'm relieved to find not a word of this on Google, except for a little wingnut carping.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

the solution is...............................
Posted by: dbaker on May 19, 2009 4:03 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dennis Baker
103-66 duncan ave west
penticton bc canada V2A6Z3
cell 250-462-2771
fax 250-493-3463
dennisbaker2003@hotmail.com
RE : The solution to climate change.
( human excrement + nuclear waste = hydrogen )
The USA discharges Trillions of tons of sewage annually, sufficient quantity to sustain electrical generation requirements of the USA.
Redirecting existing sewage systems to containment facilities would be a considerable infrastructure modification project.
It is the intense radiation that causes the conversion of organic material into hydrogen, therefore what some would consider the most dangerous waste because of its radiation would be the best for this utilization.
I believe the combination of clean water and clean air, will increase the life expectance of humans.
yours sincerely
Dennis Baker

Cap and trade is smoke and mirrors!
carbon tax revenues invested in alternatives to fossil fuels would score high for Ecological Intelligence

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Two items here set me off:
Posted by: oregoncharles on May 19, 2009 10:00 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First, you can't use composted garbage for fertilizer: it's full of toxins. Some cities, like mine, collect yard waste and food scraps separately; that composts beautifully. As a landscaper, I use the stuff all the time.

Second: pig farms would actually collect methane and FLARE IT OFF for the difference between CO2 and CH4? Only if they're very stupid: both natural gas and the electricity you can make from it are worth real $. A lot of dumps and sewage plants already do this, and some farms. But if the law doesn't require it, there is indeed a serious problem. (Industrial-style pig raising is a problem in itself; I'm just talking about what should be done with the methane.)

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As Long As The “Allowing” Is “Allowed” - It Will Continue...
Posted by: The Old Hippie on May 19, 2009 10:24 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
 
The corporatists polluters who profit from their pollution, more so than they do from doing the right thing - Will continue to fight tooth-and-nail any restrictions on their profit-taking as long as they are ... “allowed” ... to do so.

Like the corporatists opportunistic war-profiteers, and the corporatist banker-thieves, they have no care for common-cause, nor national interest.  For them and their brothers-in-profits, nothing matters but what they are ... “allowed” ... to continue to get away with that is profitable to them, and their very-few.  Nothing.

This is not a new concept, it is just history repeating itself, with a vengeance.  And no American can say “we didn't know...”  I am no one special, if I know, it is obvious that you should also... know.
 

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Pinch Me!
Posted by: FreeAmerica on May 19, 2009 10:51 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I usually don't agree with the folks here at Alternet about AGW very often. In the case of this article and climate bill, we are mostly in agreement.
The bill sets up a phony market to trade air. It brings all of the dangers and corruption inherent with capitalism, but none of the productivity or benefit. They pretty much take our money, let the polluters off of the hook, and the whole thing enriches a select few politicians, traders and other carefully selected beautiful people.

I am not against being cleaner at all. I do not think that this bill will do anything for the planet, but will simply get the gory looking waxman and his ghouls rich..

If you want real action, appeal to human greed. Put a $500 million dollar reward out there for the next revolutionary energy source that is clean, efficient, and unlike the ethanol scam, something that actually works. Greed is a constant. Don't swim against the river, use it to your advantage.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Alternet Comments:

Comments are closed-

what did you think would happen?
Posted by: johnwinthrop on May 19, 2009 4:01 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
you want less use of carbon doxide? Ban it, regulate it, tax it. That's how it works in a quasicaptialist society. any of these solutions make not just oil companies mad, or scientists who don't buy IPCC computer models, but average working class people who have to heat and cool their homes NOW, use a car NOW to get to work and to shop, and who work in offices and factories that are heated and cooled by carbon. No carbon, no job.

This is all irrelevant to the true believers. Kind of like the folks to who travelled to the USSR in the 1920's, claimed they saw the future, said the future were happy peasants, and didn't notice that there were few peasants about, most having starved under Comrade Stalin's regulations. Party members did an excellent job of pretending to be peasants, with much better smiles and teeth than peasants ever had.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

One Step at a Time
Posted by: Sparks56 on May 19, 2009 4:04 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'll take progress where i can get it, even in a flawed energy bill. Look where we were 2, 4. 6, 8 years ago. Given the economic situation and the eternal conservative drumbeat of global warming denial, the fact that an environmental bill was even debated, let alone passed, is real progress. Dictatorship is quick. Democracy is slow.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Price? Posted by: Sparks56
» CopOut Posted by: james108
» RE: CopOut Posted by: Sparks56

Comments are closed-

polluters' army
Posted by: mwildfire on May 19, 2009 6:58 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wonder how many of them are being paid, these people who post on every story about climate change with their denialist talking points?
It's quite true, as johnwinthrop implies, that many people don't believe in climate change. But I notice that the overwhelming majority of the world's scientists do--odds are, they're right. Your car and computer would not exist if scientists hadn't done the work on which they're based--but people want to grab the nice toys that science produces, then declare they don't believe in science when it discovers a big problem with some of those toys.
A real climate bill WOULD increase the cost of energy produced in ways that emit greenhouse gases, as most conventional sources do. This WOULD impact low-income consumers more. That's why James Hansen wants to toss this whole cap-and-trade approach, proven by the EU to be ineffective, and just put a tax on carbon emissions--with the proceeds--100% of them--to be returned to consumers, as monthly checks (or it could be done as a reduction or elimination of income taxes). It's true that there are good things that could be done with some of the money, like invest in R & D for green energy or cushion the blow for coal miners, etc who lose out in the transition. But Hansen argues that letting Congress decide what to do with that money opens the way to corrupting influence, and notes that Americans don't trust Congress, ha ha. Like somehow we have the idea that Congress represents the corporations that contribute to their campaigns and not the people. That's why single-payer health insurance is off the table; it's why there is always a war and "defense" gets over half of all government money, even though we now spend more on it than all other countries combined; and it's why so many pundits and the other commenter above, urge us to support this turkey of a bill. It's slightly better than nothing, and we should rejoice and seize it! It's progress! Only trouble is, that pesky thing, science: it says we're in the very last years in which we can avert catastrophic climate change later this century, and now only by drastic reductions, not 17% by 2020, if even that much survives the further-watering down by the Senate. The reality is that Congress is even more corrupt than the public supposes--there is essentially no chance that they will pass a bill remotely near adequate before the water's submerging the Capitol. The change we need must come some other way, and it's hard to see how, when the public is easily misled by the PR appendages of the monsters we created and called corporations.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» clearing the air for once Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: polluters' army Posted by: oregoncharles

Comments are closed-

This issue has to be addressed at the individual and local level before the feds will do anything
Posted by: tommy_slothrop on May 19, 2009 9:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The federal politicians are too dependent upon corporate money.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

A REVENUE-NEUTRAL Carbon Tax!
Posted by: Evan Ravitz on May 19, 2009 10:12 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Simple taxation of CO2 (carbon tax) with reductions to income, etc. taxes to give the govt the same income (revenue-neutral) is what most economists and humans favor. Congress is sealing the fate of the human race. 65% of Americans were ready in 1997 to cut greenhouse gases according to a NY Times/CBS poll: http://vote.org/initiatives?q=node/1272 Another reason we need NATIONAL ballot initiatives so we can act when Congress doesn't represent: http://Vote.org

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Assholes rule
Posted by: willymack on May 19, 2009 10:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As long as that's the case, there'll be NO meaningful change for the better.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Stop the global warming/cap and trade scam
Posted by: Antonio Sosa on May 19, 2009 11:21 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No patriotic and informed American can support the global warming/cap and trade scam, more fraudulent than any Nigerian scam. Cap and trade is a huge tax on the poor and the middle class designed to give the powers of a dictator to Obama and to further enrich his billionaire friends (Gore, Soros, Goldman Sachs, Obama’s Chicago Climate Exchange friends, GE, etc.)

Cap and Trade “would be the equivalent of an atomic bomb directed at the U.S. economy—all without any scientific justification,” says famed climatologist Dr. S. Fred Singer. It would significantly increase taxes and the cost of energy, forcing many companies to close, thus increasing unemployment, poverty and dependence.

Those brainwashed to the point of wanting to destroy the economy to "prevent global warming" remind us of primitive humans who believed that killing and sacrificing others would ensure them good weather. Human beings don't have the power to control climate!

More and more scientists and thinking people all over the world are realizing that man-made global warming is a hoax that threatens our future and the future of our children. More than 700 international scientists dissent over man-made global warming claims. They are now more than 13 times the number of UN scientists (52) who authored the media-hyped IPCC 2007 Summary for Policymakers. http://www.climatechangefraud.com/content/view/3562/218/

Additionally, more than 30,000 American scientists have signed onto a petition that states, "There is no convincing scientific evidence that human release of carbon dioxide, methane, or other greenhouse gases is causing or will, in the foreseeable future, cause catastrophic heating of the Earth's atmosphere and disruption of the Earth's climate." http://www.petitionproject.org

We pray that honest leaders – both Democrat and Republican - are able to save us from Obama's criminal global warming/cap-and-trade scam.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Is Waxman-Markey irrelevant in terms of actual climate impact?
Posted by: Paolo on May 19, 2009 12:11 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is an interesting article that basically says that the climate impacts of Waxman-Markey, even if implemented completely as written, would be basically irrelevant.

http://masterresource.org/?p=2355

“A full implementation and adherence to the long-run emissions restrictions provisions described by the Waxman-Markey Climate Bill would result only in setting back the projected rise in global temperatures by a few years—a scientifically meaningless prospect.”

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Karlin
Posted by: Noah_Scape on May 19, 2009 2:00 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This climate bill is like an introduction to the real solution, just an educational tool that tells industry and the public that there is a problem with CO2. "CO2 is bad, therefore we are going to put a price on emissions".

But ya, I agree - it won't work. It won't actually reduce emissions, it is just going to produce more accounting tricks.

Picture the future world of abundant clean energy - what do you see? You see [real] renewable energy, as in windmills and solar and wave/tidal generators of electricity - and the power sources for true renewable energy systems exist without humans doing anything [i.e. wind and sun].

This climate bill does very little to push us towards that future... and really, there isn't much of a future without renewable energy contributing a significant portion of our total energy use.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

It took forever to look up "nuclear".
Posted by: PaulK on May 19, 2009 2:21 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I originally heard from a questionable source that Waxman-Markey was tainted by a gung-ho attitude toward nuclear. I'm relieved to find not a word of this on Google, except for a little wingnut carping.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

the solution is...............................
Posted by: dbaker on May 19, 2009 4:03 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dennis Baker
103-66 duncan ave west
penticton bc canada V2A6Z3
cell 250-462-2771
fax 250-493-3463
dennisbaker2003@hotmail.com
RE : The solution to climate change.
( human excrement + nuclear waste = hydrogen )
The USA discharges Trillions of tons of sewage annually, sufficient quantity to sustain electrical generation requirements of the USA.
Redirecting existing sewage systems to containment facilities would be a considerable infrastructure modification project.
It is the intense radiation that causes the conversion of organic material into hydrogen, therefore what some would consider the most dangerous waste because of its radiation would be the best for this utilization.
I believe the combination of clean water and clean air, will increase the life expectance of humans.
yours sincerely
Dennis Baker

Cap and trade is smoke and mirrors!
carbon tax revenues invested in alternatives to fossil fuels would score high for Ecological Intelligence

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Two items here set me off:
Posted by: oregoncharles on May 19, 2009 10:00 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First, you can't use composted garbage for fertilizer: it's full of toxins. Some cities, like mine, collect yard waste and food scraps separately; that composts beautifully. As a landscaper, I use the stuff all the time.

Second: pig farms would actually collect methane and FLARE IT OFF for the difference between CO2 and CH4? Only if they're very stupid: both natural gas and the electricity you can make from it are worth real $. A lot of dumps and sewage plants already do this, and some farms. But if the law doesn't require it, there is indeed a serious problem. (Industrial-style pig raising is a problem in itself; I'm just talking about what should be done with the methane.)

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As Long As The “Allowing” Is “Allowed” - It Will Continue...
Posted by: The Old Hippie on May 19, 2009 10:24 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
 
The corporatists polluters who profit from their pollution, more so than they do from doing the right thing - Will continue to fight tooth-and-nail any restrictions on their profit-taking as long as they are ... “allowed” ... to do so.

Like the corporatists opportunistic war-profiteers, and the corporatist banker-thieves, they have no care for common-cause, nor national interest.  For them and their brothers-in-profits, nothing matters but what they are ... “allowed” ... to continue to get away with that is profitable to them, and their very-few.  Nothing.

This is not a new concept, it is just history repeating itself, with a vengeance.  And no American can say “we didn't know...”  I am no one special, if I know, it is obvious that you should also... know.
 

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Pinch Me!
Posted by: FreeAmerica on May 19, 2009 10:51 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I usually don't agree with the folks here at Alternet about AGW very often. In the case of this article and climate bill, we are mostly in agreement.
The bill sets up a phony market to trade air. It brings all of the dangers and corruption inherent with capitalism, but none of the productivity or benefit. They pretty much take our money, let the polluters off of the hook, and the whole thing enriches a select few politicians, traders and other carefully selected beautiful people.

I am not against being cleaner at all. I do not think that this bill will do anything for the planet, but will simply get the gory looking waxman and his ghouls rich..

If you want real action, appeal to human greed. Put a $500 million dollar reward out there for the next revolutionary energy source that is clean, efficient, and unlike the ethanol scam, something that actually works. Greed is a constant. Don't swim against the river, use it to your advantage.

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