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There's No Ammo on the Shelves -- Is It the Gun Nuts' Fear of Obama-lypse?

By Yasha Levine, AlterNet. Posted May 7, 2009.


A trip to the L.A. exurb and desert city of Victorville tells you all you need to know about why it's so hard to buy ammunition these days.

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VICTORVILLE, Calif. -- Ever since it became clear that Barack Obama would be our next president, there's been an unprecedented run on guns 'n ammo in America. Partly this is fueled by fears, some justified some not, that Obama will outlaw a broad range of assault weapons; partly it's fueled by socioeconomic factors, racism and right-wing hate.

Nowhere is this phenomenon more evident than in Victorville, a desert exurb of Los Angeles that boomed faster with the subprime craze than just about any city in the country and fell harder when it all collapsed. Today, guns and ammo are in short supply here in Victorville. But there is an abundance of despair and paranoia.

There are a lot of guns around these parts, too. The barren desert surroundings are perfect setting for gun enthusiasts of all stripes, and it feels like most everyone here owns a weapon or two. And why not? You can drive 15 minutes beyond city limits, turn off onto a backroad and start unloading to heart's content. That is, if you are able to get your hands on some ammunition.

In Victorville, every single gun store is out of all types of ammo, all the time.

"I went through 11,000 of 9mm rounds in two days. That's an awful lot for a little shop like this. I would never ever stock that much," an owner of a  gun shop tucked away in a corner of a strip mall told me. "All the people that make ammunition are making more than they have in any other year, but they are still running out."

Excessive target practice did not even come close to explaining the insatiable demand for ammo. Even the local Wal-Mart, the pioneer in demand-driven distribution, can't keep up, selling out of as soon as soon a new shipment comes in.

Rumor on the street has it that Wal-Mart has sold more ammo year-to-date than any other year in its history. And while Wal-Mart's media relations department would not confirm or deny that information, citing proprietary concerns, all one has to do is visit their two stores in the area.

Aside from a couple of boxes of buckshot, shelves in the guns-and-ammo department stand perpetually empty -- a weird sight in a store otherwise overflowing with goods. According to a salesperson at their Victorville location, ammo that arrives overnight will be picked clean long before lunch hour rolls around. The only sure way to buy is to call as soon as the store opens at 9 a.m. and put what you want on hold. That is, if a shipment comes in that day at all.

Charles Drew, owner of a gun store in Victorville, told the press that even people that don't own guns are hoarding ammunition "just in case." It is a trend recorded nationwide. 

The Outdoor Wire, a news service for the outdoor industry, has named Obama its "Gun Salesman of the Year." Mandatory FBI background checks for firearms sales have jumped by 50 percent in recent months, while ammunition manufacturers have seen record sales. Olin Corp., maker of Winchester ammunition, upped its first-quarter sales this year from $110 million to $133 million, giving it a much-appreciated 20 percent boost in profits.

Ammunition has been so scarce lately that some police departments have been forced to scale back on target practice, fearing that they won't have any bullets left for real police work.

And the thing to remember is that bullets aren't cheap. A box of 25 9mm rounds sells for about $25. More specialized ammo easily sells for $2 a bullet or more. But in these difficult times, cost does not appear to be an issue, even in the flat-broke city of Victorville.

Victorville is set on a flat stretch of the Mojave Desert among Joshua trees and tumbleweeds 100 miles east of Los Angeles. Fertilized by land speculation and the riskiest of loans, blocks and blocks of beefy McMansions started sprouting here in the last decade, baiting low-income families with the glorious dream of homeownership.

Priced just right, Victorville was a testament to the accessibility of the American Dream for all, regardless of wealth. And in 2007, it became America's second-fastest growing exurb, doubling its population to just over 100,000 in six short years.

There was no local industry to support such growth, and despite the two-hour average commute, each way, people flocked here from all over Southern California, eventually making Victorville more ethnically diverse than Los Angeles.

But the egalitarian dream didn't last. Prices have now dropped to pre-2000 levels. Whole neighborhoods of beefy homes, some of them half-built, now stand abandoned, eerily blending in with the barren desert landscape.

The unemployment rate in Victorville doubled in the past year, spiking way above the national average to between 12.5 and 18.5 percent (the national and state averages are 8.5 and 11.2 percent, respectively).

Violent crime is on the rise, too. Victorville saw a 7 percent jump in 2008, while some surrounding areas clocked as much as 13 percent more homicides, rapes, robberies, assaults and motor vehicle theft.

There are two sides to Victorville, the old and the new. Before its stint as a dirt-cheap suburban paradise, Victorville was a tiny God-fearing community populated by white conservatives living an isolated frontier lifestyle with heavy military overtones.


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See more stories tagged with: california, barack obama, ammunition, victorville

Yasha Levine is a gun-ownin' editor of eXiledOnline. He is currently stationed in Victorville, California, working on a book from the trenches of the American Dream. You can contact him at levine@exiledonline.com.

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Posted by: davy on May 7, 2009 1:17 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fear has become the name of the game. That last bunch in the whitehouse did a good job. America has become the land of Roger Rabbit and Chicken Licken.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Still up to your old Posted by: outsideagitator
» the consolation of philosophy Posted by: Moore Hognutz
Why the label?
Posted by: Fempatriot on May 7, 2009 1:16 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mr. Levine: Why do you call anyone who believes in the right for an American to possess a firearm a "gun nut"? Israelis pack heat all over Israel, but I have never heard one of them called a "gun nut" nor have I ever heard anything derogatory about them for arming themselves to the teeth. Many Americans now know that the police cannot protect us; they only appear after the crime has been committed. So what is wrong with Americans wanting to protect themselves against the "nutters" out there who would go on a killing spree and kill everything that moves just because the "nutter" is mentally ill or has been dumped by his spouse? Wanting to use a gun does not make us "nuts" even though a few people who are nuts do possess guns. I have heard this label applied to those who approve of having firearms for the past 40 years, and frankly, "gun nut" has not only worn thin--it has worn out. Also it doesn't describe people who own guns at all. I taught at 2 correctional centers for 5 years, and one thing I learned from the inmates: they fear the home that has guns and people inside who know how to use them. They only want to rape, rob, or kill the defenseless and unarmed. Which , it would seem, includes you.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Does the author use the term "gun nut"? Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
» The author doesn't write the headline Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
» RE: Love the satire Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Love the satire Posted by: EJLima
» RE: Why the label? Posted by: SocoLoco
» RE: Why the label? Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Why the label? Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Why the label? Posted by: wonkywriter
» RE: Why the label? Posted by: Morell
Truly Scary Shit
Posted by: Animal on May 7, 2009 1:17 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If the economy doesn't show a noted recovery soon, things are gonna get VERY UGLY here.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» SICK PUPPIES USUALLY TAKE ALL Posted by: americansheep
Gun Nuts or Realists?
Posted by: Fred Flintstone on May 7, 2009 1:24 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I live in rural western Washington state close enough to the coast to be in the 100 mile wide "Border Security Zone" that surrounds the US. In the last few months I've seen two car haulers full of brand spanking new Border Security SUVs (the only new cars I've seen being hauled anywhere in almost a year.

Today we had two groups of six Army Blackhawks each fly over (where's that RPG when you need one?) a couple of hours apart. In 2005 ALL of our state and local cops were federally deputized. In 2007 the local Sheriffs all got body armor and fully automatic AR15 assault rifles courtesy of "Homeland Security" plus a grant for "training". The latest toy from Reichsland Security is license plate scanners that can record up to 1500 plates a minute...this is in a county of 55,000 people.

Obviously the "authorities" are gearing up for something and have been for several years. What pre tell do you think it might be? Perhaps an assault on "We the Useless Eaters"?

Guns don't kill people...the GOVERNMENT DOES!

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» RE: Gun Nuts or Realists? Posted by: Animal
» fearing invasion from Canada? Posted by: NYmediator
» RE: Gun Nuts or Retards? Posted by: Klaus
» RE: Gun Nuts or Retards? Posted by: alive
» RE: Gun Nuts or Retards? Posted by: Aimleft
» RE: Gun Nuts or Retards? Posted by: alive
» RE: Gun Nuts or Retards? Posted by: Libsrule
» RE: Gun Nuts or Retards? Posted by: alive
» RE: Gun Nuts or Retards? Posted by: Ratskii
» Gun Nuts or Retards? Posted by: alive
» RE: Gun Nuts or Retards? Posted by: darsimaj
» RE: Gun Nuts or Retards? Posted by: alive
» RE: Gun Nuts or Retards? Posted by: Fred Flintstone
» RE: Gun Nuts or Realists? Posted by: Evelyn
» Dolocalpolice count as "Government"? Posted by: Fred Flintstone
» RE: Gun Nuts or Realists? Posted by: Axiom69
» RE: Gun Nuts or Realists? Posted by: Fred Flintstone
» RE: Gun Nuts or Realists? Posted by: Walks-in-Storms
» RE: Gun Nuts or Realists? Posted by: Will Miller
» Blackhawks DOWN Posted by: Fred Flintstone
» RE: Gun Nuts or Realists? Posted by: Caleb Darkstar
Thanks for The Fear Mongering ...
Posted by: mmckinl on May 7, 2009 1:27 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bush brought us the "Islamists" now it's the "Skin Heads" ...

The real terrorists are sitting in Congress and the White House giving the equivalent of almost $40,000 for every man woman and child in America to Banks in low interest loans, excluding any single payer advocates in health care reform, killing thousands of innocents in Iraq, Afghanistan and Pakistan while killing cramdowns that would save 1.75 million people from being evicted from their homes.

You are being sold a bill of goods ...

Buying Brand Obama

Skinheads are the least of YOUR problems ... or go ahead and arm yourself just like them ...

I see NO solutions in this article, just more fear,fear, fear ... While they get you to ignore the CONTINUING rape and pillage of people both at home and abroad ...

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» I've know this for ages Posted by: sausage
lay off the vets
Posted by: johnwinthrop on May 7, 2009 1:32 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
liberals love vets when they are in Walter Reed, the hospital sucks, and bush is President. But when Obama is President, and vets are the new scapegoats to take the hit when the economy collapses even more because of Obama's wild spending spree that outdoes Crazy W, it's OK to finger the vets as the New National socialist veteran parallels. Veterans of Germany in WWI put Hitler in, so US vets must have a Fuehrer stashed away somewhere? Is this the New Lib Logic backed by the 1984 Homeland Security Dept Joe Lieberman and the Dems demanded back a few yrs ago?

Americans have a right to arm. Period. We always should be wary of a tyrant. History tells us democracy is temporary. What goes on in DC now is scary. Massive spending will require massive taxes, and not just from the "rich". Obama is fighting an insane war in the Hindu Kush. It will get Big. The "Left" used to be the force of Revolution. Trotsky wasnt a pacifist nor was the IWW nor the anarchists. Liberals want those soft govt jobs as program analysts where you analyze something, and get paid a lot with great benefitss. Some revolutionaries.

Victorville sounds like a sane place.

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» Not So Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: lay off the vets Posted by: jareilly
» RE: lay off the vets Posted by: Lilly
» RE: lay off the vets Posted by: Libsrule
Victorville, crime, and racism
Posted by: Fempatriot on May 7, 2009 1:43 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can't speak for the citizens of Victorville, because I've only driven through there on the way to and from California, but I doubt that Victorville has more racists than any other town. Mr. Levine appears to believe that all racism is from "white non-Jewish people." Nothing could be further from the truth. There is plenty of racism to go around from African-Americans, Hispanics, and Jews too.

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» RE: Victorville, crime, and racism Posted by: fantasypoliticsusa
Gun nuts on Parade!
Posted by: goeswithness on May 7, 2009 2:27 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I understand that the gun rush is about the economic crisis, not racism or hate. But what good is it going to do? Is it going to get you your house back? Your job? Your friends? Of course not. It's no solution at all. The writers in the letters column today just seem to be looking for an excuse to whip 'em out and let loose, and it completely reaffirms my position that the people who think they need a gun are exactly the ones who shouldn't have one - it's about itchy trigger fingers and irrational responses, a bent on destruction, even your own.

Yeah, maybe the government is getting ready for something - maybe they've been listening to you guys. And I for one am glad to have a government that's going to protect me from crazies.

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» RE: Gun nuts on Parade! Posted by: NYmediator
» You are an anarchist, then??? Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: Gun nuts on Parade! Posted by: antonius116
Doesn't sound nutty to me
Posted by: BeckyD on May 7, 2009 2:37 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's see - the economy is in the tank, violence from Mexico is spreading northward, crime, at least judging by my local news, seems to be on the rise and many police departments are facing cutbacks due to declining municipal revenues. And even if they aren't, the police can't protect us - at best they're there to mop up after the criminals have gone.

I'd say buying guns and ammunition is a responsible move by people who want to protect their families and property. And in any case, characterizing Americans who support the Second Amendment as 'gun nuts' is pretty poor journalism. Do you write about people who exercise their First Amendment rights as 'speech nuts?'

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THE SPACE ALIENS IN THE BLACK HELICOPTERS ARE TO BLAME
Posted by: joeocho88 on May 7, 2009 2:46 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Another conspiracy theory will undoubtedly be concocted to explain this and I used to hoot and laugh it up with everybody else...

But when I get past all the sensationalism and diversions to find the REAL news-economic news -- I am NOT laughing to much anymore.

When I see a designer virus that is race-specific and apparently aimed at killed people of Native American.Hispanic Indian or Asian people "SWINE FLU" ( Since most elites consider us swine anyway). I am half Native America....I wonder if they are working on a Jewish- gene specific virus or an African American specific virus. The woman who died of the Swine Flu here in the USA appeared to be of Native American descent.

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» RE: Go study history Posted by: Sister_Lauren
I sort of understand... unexpectedly
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey on May 7, 2009 2:53 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've been familiar with Victorville for several decades, since my early childhood in the '60s, and have relatives in the area. If this article had been set someplace in the US I'd never been to, I realize I might not be very sympathetic. But in this case I sort of get it.

Crime is skyrocketing there. The deputies/cops are often not much help. I've seen the benefits of ethnic diversity in other places, when you're talking about stable, somewhat financially secure people. It's different in a place like V'ville & so many cities in San Bernardino & Riverside counties, where they had a sudden influx of people priced out of worst slums of Los Angeles.

As a veteran I find the casual snipes at veterans in this article annoying, to say the least. Yes, we learned to shoot in the military. At least we learned the right way - we'll probably hit the intended target and not a bystander, as the gangs tend to.

Owning a gun has many drawbacks. I realize these people are buying guns for protection - genuine, not imaginary protection - but no one is home 24/7 and guns get stolen.

I've never owned a gun and hope I never NEED to... I voted for Obama enthusiastically... and personally I left SoCal because, well, I hated it - hated the heat, dryness, gangs, "car culture," crime, crime, crime...

But from my relatively safe big city "back east" - which may be messy, dirty & cold, & may look scary to my relatives but has an incredibly low crime rate compared to SoCal - I'm not going to judge these people.

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Left wing slander and fear mongering.
Posted by: The Great Satan on May 7, 2009 2:55 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People believe BHO will raise the prices or ban ammo and firearms. People are stocking up on what they believe will become a scarce commodity. Mystery solved.

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» Prohibition through inflation eh? Posted by: The Great Satan
Guns don't kill people, hot lead kills people.
Posted by: Gawain on May 7, 2009 3:01 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You all keep your guns, you got every right under the Second Amendment, so they say. What I want to see is the ammo squeezed thru the bottleneck, tighter and tighter.

I don't care how much you stockpile and load at home: if the ammo gets properly regulated, sooner or later, you just plain gonna run out of that nasty sh*t. Then maybe the streets of America will be safer again.

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We don't want your guns...
Posted by: Perry Logan on May 7, 2009 3:12 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We just want your women.

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newtonpo
Posted by: newtonpo on May 7, 2009 3:25 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"GunNuts"...,Great,and thanks.,Seems the liberal "Vision",dulls at the doorstep of their opinions.

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» RE: Liberals Far Left Fringe? Posted by: outsideagitator
Fact Check, please
Posted by: Burns! on May 7, 2009 3:26 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just a couple of points for Mr. Levine (author):

First, I don't know what brand of ammo you're buying, or where, but I've never paid $25 for 9mm (typically considerably less,) and I've never purchased a box of 25 (handgun ammo typically comes in boxes of 50 rounds.) Rather than $1/round, you can usually expect about 30¢/round.

Also, Victorville is approximately *80* miles east of Los Angeles, not 200. 200 miles east of Los Angeles (along the 15 freeway) would take you to within 20 miles of the Nevada border.

If these enormous (and easily checked) exaggerations appear in the first page of your article (I didn't bother with the second page,) one has to wonder...what other "facts" did you make up along the way? Please join us in the 21st century, where Google is your friend.

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» northeast Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
» RE: Fact Check, please Posted by: Gentle Axeman
» RE: Fact Check, please Posted by: Gentle Axeman
» How much is ammo in TJ? Posted by: Sojourner
» Burns, some ammo choice information Posted by: PrinceRobert
» RE: Fact Check, please Posted by: Walks-in-Storms
Imawannabe
Posted by: almendoza2 on May 7, 2009 3:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I do not own any weapons but I want to have the right to go out and get myself one if I so choose, but before I do, I must ask myself these 3 questions:
(a) do I really need a gun?
(b) If I get one, am I willing to kill another human being?
(c) If I kill someone, am I willing to suffer the consequences?

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» RE: Imawannabe Posted by: rchapin8391
» RE: Imawannabe Posted by: Gentle Axeman
» Wrong castle doctrine law Posted by: The Great Satan
» RE: You forgot (d,e...) Posted by: Sister_Lauren
The Real Guns & God Sleeper Cells which Threaten our Country
Posted by: Purple Girl on May 7, 2009 4:03 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Funny these Zealots have not recognized they are the mirror image of the Taliban/AQ. Perhaps if they actually learned about the doctrine which guides the Taliban/AQ, they may decide the ME is more sympathetic to their causes.
Truely except for the clothes they wear and the geographical background- I can't tell the difference between the Islamic Extremeist and the Christian End of Dayers.
both love toting their guns around, use the claim they are defenders of God enabling them to justify their hate towards anyone who does not conform to their way of thinking.
I'm not terrified by the Extremeist hanging out in Cave on the Af/Pak Border- I'm terrified of those hanging out in Mega churches,Esp in TX along the Mexican Border. Seems a region of our country has become it's own Swat Valley.
after Centuries of mayhem and slaughter the Catholics & protestants came to this country and laid down their arms and their arrogance. We had communities where Catholics and the various groups of Prostestantism lived side by side- no one was interested in taking up arms. Yet now we ahve a groups sect of Radicals who want to stir up the shit our ancestors fled to stake their claim on our country- FUCK YOU!!!
These Zealots and the MegaChurches they have built are under the delusion they can build a Vatican (or Church of England) here. Call it Papal Envy. heres a Clue of what True patritoism is Separation of Church & State. One only need to read a fucking history book about Europe blood bath to Know Why Our founders clearly Included that Declaration.
We are NOT a 'Christian' nation- God is not the sole property of any religion, reason any reference to Religion uses 'God' and not 'Jesus'. We are a nation of Laws. If this presents a problem for these Whacked out fanatics, move to the Middle East, where Religious zealotry not only Reigns, But Rules!

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» What about Posted by: NYmediator
» time to turn off MSNBC friend. Posted by: rafaeltoral
» The Sixteenth Amendment will rise again Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars
I'm sorry but I cannot buy into the author's support for gun control.
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield on May 7, 2009 4:43 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I used to believe in gun control but with Hurricane Katrina, Blackwater, and even my own horror hell experiences I've had coming to me, I gave up gun control altogether. When government fails the people and even breaks its own laws, why should we the people give up our rights to defend ourselves any way we can? It's not just Obama's playing kissyface to Wall $treet and the Military Industrial Complex but in fact Congress, the media, the courts and law enforcement, etc ... going against the public and toying with their anger that gives us no choice but to stand up for defending ourselves.

P.S.: And why the hell is Alternet making this front news ?!? There are more important issues to deal with and besides, gun control was invented by Ronnie Raygun and the liberals have no business supporting it !

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» what did RR do to control guns? Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: what did RR do to control guns? Posted by: JenniferBedingfield
» That IS the point. Posted by: sausage
» I'm with him..... Posted by: Prophit
» Gun Control started... Posted by: stuarts
» RE: Gun Control started... Posted by: JenniferBedingfield
When Max Baucus calls for more police against single payer advocates, it's no surprise that
Posted by: John More on May 7, 2009 5:24 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
gun and ammo sales keep going up. This article on gun control is total bullshit. Already, Obama is losing what support he gained out here in TX and if the progressives and liberals are gonna focus more on gun control and ignore traitors such as Max Baucus calling for more police against single payer advocates for correctly protesting their phoney "debates" on healthcare "compromises", they have no right to trash law abiding gun owners who correctly see the rot in Washington.

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Promotion
Posted by: Sparks56 on May 7, 2009 5:34 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The guns/ammo makers, with the help of the NRA, have turned the Obama election into the biggest sales promotion scheme ever. Really, they ought to give Barak a plaque or something.

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It's a marketing gimmick
Posted by: sausage on May 7, 2009 5:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A buddy of mine alerted me about this phenomena several weeks ago---"Be sure to buy a lifetime supply of ammunition. 'Cause there soon won't be anymore!" He wasn't sure what was behind it because the Democrats have dropped any and all talk of "gun control."

But the article, above, does provide one clue: Wal Mart.

So it goes without saying that in an otherwise bleak economy, with sales of firearms and ammunition soring this is a very bright spot in retail sales. So I guess we could say some good comes from this trend.

Yet the irony lost on the "independent" thinkers who are flocking to Wal Mart, Cabela's, Bass Pro Shops, online retailers and the neighborhood gun shop to stock up on a "lifetime supply" of ammo is that they are reacting to an artificial stimulus--the irrational fear that "Obama's gonna take our guns"-- like Skinner's pigeons.

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So, you gun control nazis wanna keep fucking us with your shit threats? Yeah fucking right !
Posted by: Sports Warrior Casey Jones on May 7, 2009 5:46 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You keep telling us that ammo will be out of stock and soon you'll be finding more vigilantes who can fight with baseball bats and crowbars and maybe even karate class students will arise. I'm glad I know how to hit them motherfucker criminals with my baseball bat and give them a taste of my black belt status in karate when I have no more bullets left to gun them down ! Keep talking about gun control and we're gonna see to it that Sarah Palin wins and delivers Obama an ULTRACRUSHING BLOWOUT in 2012 !!

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» ROFLMAO!!!!!! Posted by: sausage
» Just increase your medication. Posted by: wisegalah
Marksmanship
Posted by: grindermonkey on May 7, 2009 5:58 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These people must be bad shots to buy this much ammo. And the aircraft? Alien sightings let the sheriff handle it.

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» RE: Marksmanship Posted by: Morell
The hallmark of a hypocrite . . .
Posted by: Walks-in-Storms on May 7, 2009 6:01 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The hallmark of a hypocrite is his extremist views. There can be no statistical doubt that either "gun nuts" or ANTI-gun nuts are buying guns.

Just like the hypocrite capitalist who runs to government for socialist help when he's in trouble, the anti-gun liberal buys himself a gun (or like Rosie O'Donnell, hires a bodyguard).

Of course, the latter has a corollary: when the violence he has by his humanist-femininst criminal-coddling and anti-gun, anti-self defense ranting has had its inevitable effect, the liberal seeks the protection of the weapon he has sought to ban.

"The way of all flesh?" Yeah, and the way of the hypocrite.

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Why are Nazi symbols so popular at gun shows
Posted by: Bob Horn on May 7, 2009 6:04 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
100% of those you see at gun shows are white, mostly middle age and older men, and have right wing politics. If a bunch of you blacks walked in with Malcom X t-shirts do you think they'd be treated politely? A lot of right wingers seem to be looking at Alternet today too. It is not unreasonable that people have a real concern about those that are refered to as gun nuts. At NRA shows swatztickas are very common. The hysterical dreamed up crap saying Obama wasm't born in the U.S. (Hawaii is a state guys) is one of a hyundred pieces of misinformation these guys promote on purpose.

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» guns are Posted by: Juven
» Why are Nazi symbols so popular at gun shows: history Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars
» Who that malcolm? Posted by: johnwinthrop
» 100% white? Posted by: tjg1984
Misanthrope
Posted by: Klaus on May 7, 2009 6:06 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Frankly, the world is overpopulated anyway. Lock and load boys, lets have atter. "It's beautiful,man. Beautiful.!!!!" Tom Cruise in Taps(1981)

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» RE: Misanthrope Posted by: rchapin8391
location location
Posted by: Evelyn on May 7, 2009 6:12 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Victorville is not 200 miles east of LA; it's 80 miles east. That's why people could more or less commute.

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Or mayhap these are the folks with money left...
Posted by: ABetterFuture on May 7, 2009 6:23 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...the ones who didn't buy into the hyper consumerism and over-valued housing that pop-culture convinced some five or eight percent of the willfully ignorant public were good deals? Hence this silly so-called "crisis" that we're still waiting on to get started.

Personally, I feel that folks should spend their own damn money and live their lives in whatever way they deem fit in this country, as long as I'm not paying for it, and as long as they aren't hurting folks. I guess that gets me in trouble with authoritarian "progressives" and their "conservative" analogues, who want to exert control everything from our incomes to our bedroom habits, each according to their personal religions.

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Gun-mania, huh?
Posted by: AnIndependentThinker on May 7, 2009 6:32 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The environment that has been breed over the last 8 years, has laid the foundation for poverty, fear, bigotry, and prejudice in no uncertain terms. Just like zealot-driven, middle-eastern countries, where teenagers run amuck carrying personal arsenals to survive, we are now living in a country that is equally paranoid with fundamental religious zealots, who believe that the "rapture" is upon us because some right-wing blogger posted that Barack Obama is part of "their" right-wing prophecizing, fear-mongering conspiracy. People need to get a grip. If religion and poverty can drive a country to a doomsday scenerio because some paranoid delusionals like Limbaugh or Beck say it's the right thing to do, then this nation is NO different than Afghanistan (or other religious-driven economies). I'm sure I'm going to get a lot of flack for this comment, but it's the truth -- and the truth hurts sometimes.

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Define "gun nut" . . .
Posted by: charles000 on May 7, 2009 6:39 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Define "gun nut" . . .

Here's a reality check. Ever actually visited or lived in an area where so-called "gun nuts" have been forced to turn in their guns? You think that somehow miraculously crime was reduced in these areas?

Well, here's reality. In almost every example, ranging from Wash DC to Australia, the results have been the same:

Violent crime, including armed robberies and assault - up.
Breakins and burglaries - up.

Conversely, where law abiding citizens are actually allowed to have access to guns:

Violent crime, breakins and burglaries - down.

See a pattern here?

I hear the ubiquitous political correctness group think mantra "guns evil, guns bad" constantly blared out to the general public, but guess what? The public isn't buying it.

The hypocrisy of the so-called "liberal" anti gun fanatics is so obvious, that even many of the liberals themselves are re-thinking this weird Orwellian double speak world, and in fact are themselves quietly acquiring guns and visiting the local firing range.

I should know, being a longtime law abiding resident of that ultimate bastion of liberal group think, Berkeley, CA.

Or, let me put it this way . . .

I do not know a single person or household, not one, who has ever posted a sign in their window stating "this is a gun free house".

Gee, I wonder why that might be?

Anyone???

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» big brother is watching Posted by: Juven
Hey, folks, rather than buying guns and ammo...
Posted by: xvictor on May 7, 2009 6:54 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
..invest in IEDs (improvised explosive devices). Look up Afghanistan and Iraq for long-standing, multiple success stories.

In my next chapter, I'll show you how to create your very own trench mortar from inexpensive components already available in your home!

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The childish name-calling has gotten old
Posted by: Lumara on May 7, 2009 7:10 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So people who believe in our Second Amendment rights are "gun nuts" and those who fear that this right is in jeopardy, a fear that the author admits is justified, are hateful racists and right-wingers. How low does alternet plan to go?

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» Talk is cheap Posted by: sausage
PatriotTC
Posted by: NamVet65 on May 7, 2009 7:10 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hello to all you "Gun Nuts"!

The nation's Patriots and some newly awakening Conservatives could clearly see such events as shortages of essentials coming well over two years ago when the mainstream media mounted their unified obsessional campaign to elect Hillary....

Now, after the media had been steered by the elite internationalists in midstream of the '08 campaign to opt for "plan B", entailing a play of the communist "race-card" strategy, such stories as this one by Levine are beginning to surface in the fouled mainstream as well as in some of it's far left eddies such as the liberal "AlterNetNews"....

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» Talk is cheap! Posted by: sausage
» RE: Talk is cheap! Posted by: rchapin8391
Gun control is exactly why liberals get BURNED out here in the gem state !
Posted by: Jason Jordan on May 7, 2009 7:30 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Keep blaming the "gun nuts" as you want to call them and keep defending Obama's shitty leadership. As a liberal, I detest this kind of gun control bullshit.

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SHOPPING FOR AMMO
Posted by: VZEQICVA on May 7, 2009 7:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So the shelves are bare. Are they sold out or are their wholesalers and distributors being controlled by the government making less ammo available to them ? It's very simple to create a shortage. So you have the guns to which to you have a right, but suddenly no way to load them. Is everything sold out or simply not available. Just a thought. ANNA

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Beanie Babies eventually languished on the shelves too!
Posted by: snax on May 7, 2009 7:48 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Seems to be allot of paranoia about the supply of ammunition, but like my title suggests, Beanie Babies were in short supply once too.

I bought enough ammunition over a year ago to kill more people than I would ever want to (any number greater than zero if you wondered). Those who are hoarding ammunition are "Gun Nuts", as a single full box of shells is enough to protect themselves and their property short of all out anarchy. The reality is that they are not merely Nuts, but paranoid in general, fed by the evil manipulations of folks like Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh, or even worse, Michael Weiner.

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people are not that stupid
Posted by: Zimbly on May 7, 2009 7:59 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is an instinct for self preservation in the American psyche and its been..well.. stimulated and all for good reason.
While the "Media" trys to keep people hook winked and hypnotized...looks like "word has gotten out".

And that word is that the Govn't is preparing for the "Big Crackdown"
That much has been clear, from the stripping of Habeas Corpus, to the dropping of Posses Commitus , the P.A.T.R.I.O.T acts 1 and 2, the different "security bills" that have been passed, the beefing up of the FEMA Gulag setup all over the country...on and on it goes.
Now, how this will play out... your guess is as good as mine.
Bottom line is there is going to be a major criminal smackdown enacted by our Government on its people and a whole lot of people are going to die and the rest thrown into concentration camps.
People in the end are not stupid and are preparing for the counterstroke.
This scenario will unfold over the next 10 years or so and the "authorities" will get their " B Class" and "A Class" societies setup.. and it will "look like they've won,but this will fester and percolate for a long time and like any dictatorship, will fail.

As Lao Tzu is quoted as saying " press a rock down hard enough and it will bounce back"

Something is "afoot" and people sense it...right now its just a "vague fear"...eventually the full manifestation of what was "planned for years" will come into focus, by that point in time....if you haven't prepared or left the country..it will be too late.
We most certainly live in "interesting times"

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» RE: people are not that stupid Posted by: rchapin8391
» I beg to differ Posted by: stuarts
A REAL hero levinieweenie and the gawain types do NOT deserve
Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN on May 7, 2009 8:00 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» A REAL hero Posted by: Xynyx
Investing Story
Posted by: Xynyx on May 7, 2009 8:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The real story here was one of missed opportunities for investment. It seems that there was a fairly short period over which one could have achieved a ROI of about 100%... not bad, in the current market.

But buying, storing, and reselling all those bullets would have been a major pain in the ass.

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The Constitution
Posted by: ron heringhauser on May 7, 2009 8:02 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The founding fathers put the right for the citizens to bear arms in the Constitution for us to protect ourselves from a tyranical government (which we've seen growing over the past four decades. They don't want us the slaves armed. Chicago, Washington D.C. have the highest rate of murders and the toughest gun laws. We still have our rights and plan to keep them.

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» RE: Join the ACLU ? I was a member Posted by: ron heringhauser
Let them have their guns
Posted by: Levon on May 7, 2009 8:10 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Criminal like guns

Right wingers like guns.

Someday they will meet and annihilate each other.

Like oppositely charged particles.

Leaving the rest of us to live in peace.

He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword.

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» The Jews Posted by: Juven
Oh yeah
Posted by: VanWinkle65 on May 7, 2009 8:12 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No doubt about it dudes, better buyem up while you still can! Obama bin Lyin is the best gun salesman in US history! Yee haww

RT
Privacy Center

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Gun Nuts
Posted by: leafsong1 on May 7, 2009 8:14 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
are nuts with guns. You can see what is meant by the term in some of the posts here. It's not that owning a gun is nutty. No, owning a gun is arguably prudent and patriotic. It's that nutty people often justify their guns with their nuttiness and their nuttiness with their guns. Having a loaded weaapon in your hands is having power; power drives some people nutty.

The author says nothing about gun control, and his unstated opinions on the subject could only be considered clear if there were only two, well defined positions on the subject---there are many. Mere use of the term "gun nut" doesn't mean the author wants an increase in gun control. People who genuinely do want an increase in gun control are not typically so constitutionally illiterate as to advocate a complete ban.

It is characteristic of rightist nuts to view any change in a non-rightward direction, or even a slowing of change in a rightward direction, as damning and conclusive evidence that there is an inexorable plot afoot to move the entire country as far left as any country can possibly go, right off into marxistland. Rightist gun enthusiasts are among the worst in this regard. It is no pejorative to refer to such people as "gun nuts." That is precisely what they are.

I think the message to take from the article is that leftists need to arm up, too. It is good for the populace to be armed; it is bad for those arms to be concentrated among the most ignorant and among those most lacking in compassion.

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» RE: Gun Nuts Posted by: Xynyx
Boy, this is a huge stretch
Posted by: Juven on May 7, 2009 8:20 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Picking two examples of conservative rantings to represent everyone? Come-on-- This is way overgeneralized. Sounds like scare tactics from the supposed left to me.

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Now I get the joke!
Posted by: frankly1 on May 7, 2009 8:21 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When I lived in Europe I often heard a joke told about us Americans - "What's the difference between a cow chewing cud and an American chewing gum? You can see yhe intelligence on the cows' face". I get it now!

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» The joke is your mind Posted by: Juven
» RE: The joke is your mind Posted by: frankly1
» you must have Posted by: Juven
» The usual recourse Posted by: frankly1
» RE: The usual recourse Posted by: Juven
Don't Forget the Tax
Posted by: Birdland on May 7, 2009 8:21 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What people seem to forget here is that the government raised taxes just recently on cigarettes, tobacco, and ammunition. People knew in advance of the implementation of this tax on ammo and people rushed out to buy all the ammo (and cigarettes) they could afford before the tax went into effect. I don't mean to defend any kooks actions. But plain and simple, many hunters and target shooters and anyone who had money, stocked up on ammo. The shelves will be restocked in time, once manufacturers have time to catch up with inventory. It's not all sinister motivation, folks.

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» RE: Don't Forget the Tax Posted by: aroleflin
» RE: Don't Forget the Tax Posted by: Klaus
New kids on the block
Posted by: solrev on May 7, 2009 8:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The people I know who have guns have always had guns. But in the last few months’ people that have approached me for guns and a little gun knowledge, has blown my mind. I would never have dreamed that guns would become fashionable for these people. They used to talk about their wealth creation at their cocktail parties. Now they talk about how bad their guns are. Talk about bringing down the hood. At least if pushing came to shoving we know where we can get a lot more guns pretty easy.

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WeMadeAmistake
Posted by: aroleflin on May 7, 2009 8:34 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The fact that guns and ammunition are scarce IS A REFLECTION THAT MOST AMERICANS DO NOT LIKE WHAT THEY SEE IN PRESIDENT NARCISSIST AND WASHINGTON. PERIOD.

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» RE: WeMadeAmistake Posted by: Xynyx
» RE: WeMadeAmistake Posted by: Aimleft
recent article by Junling Hu
Posted by: vasumurti on May 7, 2009 8:36 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A gun is a consumer product, sold for money and purchased by individuals. While all consumer products including teddy bears are subject to strict federal laws, guns are given a free pass. There is no safety regulation on guns thanks to NRA’s lobbying effort. Unsafe guns lead to accidents and death of adults and children at home. The real suffers are gun owners.

A gun is also a lethal weapon. Falling into the wrong hand, it enables a criminal to kill, a gang member to fight, and a teenage to get revenge. Guns are more deadly than tobacco, alcohol or gambling combined. While all of these are off limit to youngsters, and a 20-year-old can be arrested for drinking beer, he can walk free for buying a gun.

The debate of gun laws is muffled by the slogan, “We need less government regulation”. It is as if government regulation is always a bad thing. These people ignore the fact that government regulates every aspect of our life today. From water to air, to drugs and toys, everything touching us is regulated by law. Without clean air act, we will be breathing dirty air ejected by power plants, we will be drinking unsafe water. Without government regulation, medicine with fatal side effects will not be pulled off shelves and toys with lead poison can stay on the market. Government regulation ensures our housing safety, our food quality, our driving safety (through speed limit and safety belt law). As we live in a society, government acts as the mediator and enforcer that no individual can do.

The freedom of owning a gun has little to do with abiding gun laws. Everyone can own a automobile, but they still need to register and get license for their cars. Everyone have the freedom of owning a house, but they still to watch for zoning regulation and fire safety requirement.

Sensible gun laws governs manufacturing standard, product safety, and accessible by minors and criminals. Sensible gun laws ensure the safety of our street, our school, and most importantly the safety of our home.

Common sense gun laws such as closing gun show loophole, assault weapon ban, and child-lock are fundamentally needed to ensure guns not fall into wrong hands. Yet, all these basic laws are fought against by NRA lobby. How far can we go in this extremist view of so-called “individual freedom”? The consequence of suffering is demonstrated by deadly shooting every day, in every corner of America. Each day, more than 80 people die from gun shooting, from accidents at home, to dispute with neighbor, to random shooting on the street. The deadly consequence of “gun freedom” is the death of our young, 4-year-old shot while playing with guns, 15-year-old while in heat of argument, 19-year-old walking out of a nightclub.

America does not have to be a society soaked in blood, because the bloody consequence was caused by powerful gun lobby that stripped away our basic protection from law. Let’s work to enact sensible gun laws. We ask for sensible regulation on guns, as we ask for regulation on food and drugs. Gun issue is no longer a private matter but a public safety issue. It affects all of us. Let’s pass sensible gun laws now.

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» RE: recent article by Junling Hu Posted by: Romantic Violence
» RE: recent article by Junling Hu Posted by: Walks-in-Storms
» RE: recent article by Junling Hu Posted by: Walks-in-Storms
» RE: recent article by Junling Hu Posted by: Walks-in-Storms
billybookworm
Posted by: billybookworm on May 7, 2009 8:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ammunition is in short supply for two reasons. First, the military is using the production capacity. Second, Bush et al made it difficult to get into, stay in and survive in any business that involves firearms or requires explosives or components of explosives. The tinhat rightwingers running around crying now stood idly by while their rights were tossed out the back door.
Compare: Years after McVey blew up the Murrah building I could still call Iowa Pyro Supply and order a keg of perchlorate and 50#s of German black shipped to my door, thanks to Bush et al I now have a hard time finding a fuse. As usual the conservatives were watching the backdoor while their so called "friends" disposed of the 2nd Amendment through the front door.

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WeMadeAmistake
Posted by: aroleflin on May 7, 2009 8:44 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Watch the 'OBAMA DECEPTION' video on YouTube.com

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Good karma doesn't start a revolution
Posted by: frantic1971 on May 7, 2009 8:52 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Flash back to a certain town square in 1775. The best and most hardened troops of the world's superpower are facing-down a band of hastily assembled farmers and shopkeepers. Do you think the Minutemen were going to impress the Redcoats with their non-violent (but sincere!) arguments for Liberty? That projecting a "good karma" was gonna defuse the situation? Hell no!

So when the time comes I'd rather have my trusty 12-gauge pump in my hands. What do you think is gonna happen when the food supplies stop in the cities, after a few days the supermarket shelves are empty, the electricity is off, the water stops running? That these people are just gonna mosey-on out to the countryside and humbly knock on your door for a sandwich?

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Not What Obama will do, but will not do !
Posted by: MFox1948 on May 7, 2009 8:58 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Slap on the wrist for traitors, war criminals, financial crooks, and no mass elimination of fascist laws, public monitoring without warrant, and lacking recognition of the posse comitatus act. That is what drives people to protect themselves. Bailout corporations and business for gross mismanagement is not the fault of the public, nor should it be their responsibility to fix the mess.

"We can have democracy in this country, or we can have great wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, but we can't have both."-- Louis Brandeis, Supreme Court justice from 1916-1939

"The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing." -- Albert Einstein

"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny
in government." -- Thomas Jefferson

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rgd
Posted by: rgd on May 7, 2009 9:09 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was a rangemaster for several years and I believe in a persons right to own a gun. But some of the people who came out to the range to shoot made a great case for gun control. Man! Those people where idiots. The gun nuts where the folks who showed up in a truck filled(and I do mean filled) with guns. They would take their sweet time shooting all day- stopping only for lunch and timeouts. Then you had the majority of folks who came to shoot as a spot or to just sight-in their scopes in time for hunting season.
But to get to the point: A con needs a distraction. The bigger and bolder the con, the larger or more numerous the distractions. The con is always over money. So don't be distracted by all the other issues like gun control. Money is the name of the game and the con is on. Too bad Alternet's writers don't focus more on the gov't./banker collusion. They have no problem bashing Bush- and rightly so, but they tend to excuse his newly-elected bedfellow.

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hmmm...
Posted by: okcsteve on May 7, 2009 9:12 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...as if the other side has never engaged in irrational exhuberance.

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bigdukesix101
Posted by: bigdukesix101 on May 7, 2009 9:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have been telling anyone who will listen about this. I'm a target shooter and I have not been able to buy 9mm or .38 since Obama got elected. I go to Walmart and Farm and Fleet weekly and NOTHING! The range owner where I practice said that in his 25 years in business he has seen nothing like this and he is making more money and selling more guns than ever!

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Gun Crazies
Posted by: Archie1954 on May 7, 2009 9:29 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It looks like the gun crazies are out in full force. It's hard to believe that 8 years of Bush and his communicable disease of right wing craziness would infect half the population but it looks like it did. I hope the new president has an antidote or the country could be up in arms so to speak.

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» RE: Gun Crazies Posted by: KilnGruv
You know you're from a blue state if:
Posted by: puf_almighty on May 7, 2009 9:46 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You support an intelligent, rational, non-blaming, solution-focused dialogue with other countries, but the only thing you can summon for under-educated blue-collar white Americans is disdain.

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Nitwits on parade
Posted by: willymack on May 7, 2009 9:55 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ever notice that no matter how poor some people are, they always find money for cigarettes? Junk food? Multiple pets? Gas guzzling cars? Guns and ammunition? There's a lot of anger out there, and, as usual, it's misdirected by the likes of lush limberger, sean insanity, and shill o'lielly. In my opinion, this is a direct result of our failing schools in particular, and public education systems in general. Corporate mass media, catering to our owners add to the problem. If we don't get a handle on all the angry half-wits with guns, and soon, an unstoppable unravelling of our nation may ensue. So many fools. So few meteors.

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Gun owners America's internal Terrorism...!
Posted by: TJColatrella on May 7, 2009 10:00 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Gun owners are slaughtering Americans daily..!

When will we end this terrorism..?

It's open season on human beings in American 12 months a year, 365 days a week...!

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maybe the purchasers are afraid
Posted by: hurricane hugo on May 7, 2009 10:37 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
of each other.

#@!

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» ever heard Posted by: Juven
Shear The Stupid Sheep
Posted by: FURonnie on May 7, 2009 10:46 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was in a large box store two days before the world was going to come to an end with the calendar change to 2000. I was in there to buy a quart of milk. I had to wait in a long line of folks buying all kinds of stuff they'd never buy, but the news pimps were telling the sky was gonna fall. There were generators, flash lights, ammo, food etc. All of which two days later they tried to return, embarassed they had fallen by media hype.

I grew up in a paranoid family that followed the false, doomsday dogma of the Jehovah's Witnesses. All I ever heard growing up was the world's gonna come to an end before you become a man. They'ed fixate on any story thatw ould uphold their paranoid thinking. The only thing they were right about was their world ending as all my relatives passed away before I turned 21.
So my freinds look back on all the doom and dire news from their poison reports and live like sheep. Go and buy all that survivalist crap and live like paranoid fools if you'd like. As for me I will continue to live a peaceful happy life full of hope and peace. (Kng George is out of the White House.)

If you want to see this world as the same as it always has been and will be, just go to your library and read old newspapers from 50, 75 or 100 years ago. Don't look at the dates just read about all of the calamities, disasters, crime and murders. Then there will be the forcasters telling the world is falling apart. Has anything changed? You may say two hundred years ago they had nothing to fear like we do. My responce; I wonder how afraid US citizens were when the British invaded and burned Washington during the War of 1812?

Parnoid folks like these have taught me to be positively influneced by negative people.

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shotgun vs. rifle---which is best?
Posted by: frantic1971 on May 7, 2009 11:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most people out there think of rifles when it comes to self-defense. However while a rifle may be good for deer hunting or hitting something from a long distance, you are just firing one bullet and have to aim.

It seems to me a good ol' shotgun is best for home defense, and especially for someone who isn't an expert at firing guns or being a marksperson. And if you are trying to hit something fairly close by. With a shotgun, you blast a large pattern of pellets so that even if you don't aim precisely you have better chance to at least hit and deter the attacker.

Any gun experts out there care to comment?

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GUERILLA WARS SHOULD TEACH A LESSON
Posted by: Bob Graham Las Vegas on May 7, 2009 11:28 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In California, as well as the other states which border Mexico, much of the disappearing ammo most likely ends up in the hands of the drug factions. Decriminalize drugs and watch the ammo slow down in sales, rather than trying to limit the arms or ammo in the hands of Americans. When the USA is invaded, and it will be, I would rather see all Americans armed to the teeth just as all guerillas we have made war on. We should not limit ourselves to relying on the military alone, and as I see it, we should have learned a lesson from wars we have been in. Matter of fact, caves need to be dug for the poplace to use in the event of an attack. Don't we ever learn? It is the folks who label all gun owners as nutjobs which will ruin this nation in the future.

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Gun Hater, However . . .
Posted by: eagleeye on May 7, 2009 11:45 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dear Mr. Levine:

I have hated guns ever since I was discharged from the Marine Corps and have not fire a gun since then. However With the passage of the Patriotic Acts I & II and the support that this legislation got from so called liberals like Nancy Pelosi, Barbara Boxer and Diane Finestine I realize the need for protection. We are are moving rapidly towards a fascist state and I do not intend to be marched off to a concentration camp.

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» RE: Gun Hater, However . . . Posted by: jareilly
Rob_G
Posted by: KilnGruv on May 7, 2009 11:49 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First and foremost more lives are SAVED every year than LOST to firearms Nationwide. Fact. So like many things in our society we do not eliminate them for the few misuses that occur. Unfortunately ALL the misuses get ALL the attention.Like the post 2 below mine I am sick of the derogatory "Gun Nut" phrase especially since almost every person i heard use the term never fired, doesnt know how and live on "their feelings or beliefs" on the issue of so called "assault weapons" and guns in general. These types answer me with "Well i feel or think that.." well FACTs like FBI crime data and 20 year studies by Professor John Lott mock all your feelings and show the reality to be the opposite of YOUR NUTTY Hysteria!
Sorry but i read and researched ALOT of data and have no "feelings" on the subject other than i am comfortable with the reality of the FACTS and so is the DOJ who is not alarmed by an occasional LUNATIC that flies off the handle every now and then. The real stupid is 'why do you need that?' retort, lol its like right now i dont BUT if i did i will still be able to defend and supply for my family, i dont WANT to need it, but for those that never fired for fun like i do, at plastic bottles full of water and clay pigeons, its really fun.
I voted for Obama, Nader you name it, Father is a retired Jersey City Det Sgt and mother was a school teacher. All democrats but i was brought up firing.

During the Assault Weapons BAN (10 years) crime dropped and the guns were STILL around, grandfatehred in so they were noT removed from 'the streets' AND POST BAN versions with same exact firepower we invented (i bought on in NJ) and slayings and massacres did not increase! So what they removed the bayonet lug and barrel threads on an M4 carbine SO WHAT its still .223 semi automatic!! No increase in crime. So the ban was and is a failed policy. Things happen in phases, the Beltway Snniper killed during the BAN did it stop him andmake hiim stay home!!? of course not laws are only observed by law abiding people, so feel NO SAFER, if a ban is re-enacted it did/does nothing. killers will kill.
And who is the NUT is millions of people are buying up ALL THE AMMO AND ASSAULT RIFLE MUST BE 20+ MILLION NUT BAGS AND A FEW CITY LIBERALS ALL KNOW WHATS UP FOR REAL HUH?

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» provide cites or... Posted by: stuarts
» RE: provide cites or... Posted by: KilnGruv
» RE: provide cites or... Posted by: Crazy H
rOBBIE_G
Posted by: KilnGruv on May 7, 2009 11:50 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First and foremost more lives are SAVED every year than LOST to firearms Nationwide. Fact. So like many things in our society we do not eliminate them for the few misuses that occur. Unfortunately ALL the misuses get ALL the attention.Like the post 2 below mine I am sick of the derogatory "Gun Nut" phrase especially since almost every person i heard use the term never fired, doesnt know how and live on "their feelings or beliefs" on the issue of so called "assault weapons" and guns in general. These types answer me with "Well i feel or think that.." well FACTs like FBI crime data and 20 year studies by Professor John Lott mock all your feelings and show the reality to be the opposite of YOUR NUTTY Hysteria!
Sorry but i read and researched ALOT of data and have no "feelings" on the subject other than i am comfortable with the reality of the FACTS and so is the DOJ who is not alarmed by an occasional LUNATIC that flies off the handle every now and then. The real stupid is 'why do you need that?' retort, lol its like right now i dont BUT if i did i will still be able to defend and supply for my family, i dont WANT to need it, but for those that never fired for fun like i do, at plastic bottles full of water and clay pigeons, its really fun.
I voted for Obama, Nader you name it, Father is a retired Jersey City Det Sgt and mother was a school teacher. All democrats but i was brought up firing.

During the Assault Weapons BAN (10 years) crime dropped and the guns were STILL around, grandfatehred in so they were noT removed from 'the streets' AND POST BAN versions with same exact firepower we invented (i bought on in NJ) and slayings and massacres did not increase! So what they removed the bayonet lug and barrel threads on an M4 carbine SO WHAT its still .223 semi automatic!! No increase in crime. So the ban was and is a failed policy. Things happen in phases, the Beltway Snniper killed during the BAN did it stop him andmake hiim stay home!!? of course not laws are only observed by law abiding people, so feel NO SAFER, if a ban is re-enacted it did/does nothing. killers will kill.
And who is the NUT is millions of people are buying up ALL THE AMMO AND ASSAULT RIFLE MUST BE 20+ MILLION NUT BAGS AND A FEW CITY LIBERALS ALL KNOW WHATS UP FOR REAL HUH?

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» RE: rOBBIE_G Posted by: Libsrule
Uh, Could The Ammo Have Gone to Mexico????
Posted by: rgoalierob on May 7, 2009 11:50 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is an actual war going on right across our border.

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» See: Russia Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars
Limbic thinking
Posted by: DavidMichaelSmith on May 7, 2009 11:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When I was in Vietnam in 1968-69, it seemed like most everybody packed heat. A kind of Wild West attitude permeated everything, and whenever there was a disagreement between individuals, it was often resolved with gunfire. Had we all not been so well armed, perhaps fisticuffs would have been more the order of the day. Limbic thinking was more common than rational discussion because of the war, and that, with the added element of plenty of personal firepower, created an environment where the sound of a discharged weapon was frequent.

I suppose as lizard brain reactive thinking, plenty of guns, and lots of ammo combine in today's volcanic America, we'll see more blood flowing down the gutters in the days ahead. Sad, because when the cordite clears, all that's really changed is there are more funerals to attend.

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BA
Posted by: mnstra on May 7, 2009 11:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Good article, but short on facts. In 1959 Nikita Kerchief said to America we will bury you. Californians went out and bought more guns than the rest of the country combined. They are maniacs .For what? All out of fear. The manufactures love ignorant consumers to sucker more into buying their crap out of fear.Wake up -it is the Wall Street crowd that is the real enemy. Go after them.

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» RE: BA Posted by: stuarts
Hello, Psychology 101 Here
Posted by: Lilly on May 7, 2009 12:31 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Projection: It isn't that I hate Joe and want to kill him because I am really a nice person. Most of all I am not a racist and I love and respect all my fellow citizens, especially Democrats, immigrants, and black people. It's that Joe hates me and wants to kill me.

Thus, being a reasonable human being, I must take measures to protect myself from Joe. Ergo, I need eleven guns and 500,000 rounds of ammunition. Because Joe is one hell of a dangerous guy.

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» fear cannibalizing itself Posted by: techcafe
» RE: fear cannibalizing itself Posted by: Walks-in-Storms
Not sure what the point is supposed to be...
Posted by: Jdog on May 7, 2009 12:44 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Alternet has been posting some pretty weak stuff lately.

This little town is singled out by the author to make a point, but even he essentially undermines the argument that this is some crazy national trend when we points out the percentage of veterans in town, the lack of jobs/industry, and the high crime rates. The recent history is also important: This was a mecca for poor, uneducated, people who lacked the savvy to know they were getting reamed on these homes and loans.

This poor, uneducated, semi-rural demographic is the number one audience for Fox "News." Feed them some bullshit about Obama, throw in the Bush recession, an influx of equally uneducated and poor Mexicans to compete for work, stir it all up and, BAM: Instant rush on guns.

I live in the Bay Area and I own several firearms. I have not noticed any shortages here, and other than hearing on the news that some wingnuts are afraid of Obama taking their guns, I haven't heard that concern from fellow gun owners.

My point is that most educated, working people who own guns aren't hoarding any ammo. Semi-literate, meth addicted mulletheads throughout California's central valley have been doing so for 30 years.

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When it comes to articles relating to the issues of guns, so many more posts than on other issues.
Posted by: maxpayne on May 7, 2009 1:47 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is it that the issue of gun control which I thought was done and over with still has to be brought back or something? While I personally don't believe that guns are the answer to life's problems, I'll respect those who think that they need them to defend themselves or whatever as long as they're not trouble makers. Still, perhaps the author could have gotten into a discussion on the economic plight in CA and not associated gun buying with it. There's not much I feel like responding to here. Too much to make me puke.

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Using Quotes is cowardly method to fuel Lft V Rt .
Posted by: Kahoneez on May 7, 2009 1:58 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just as this site more and more , is fueling the left V Right fight , bcs it's an easy distraction & protects Obama's authoritarian implementation over the U. S. & many on the left want the right to arm themselves as well and pretending many on the " left " don't abhor Obama's use of GPS during Census taking , (where's that concern on Alternet ), Bill 1388 , that includes words like " Mandatory " in the future and how it can work , escalation of the carnage in Afghanistan (where's the concern for 100 blown up civilians on /alternet )?

Keep selling the kool-aid ALTERNET , when the census taker comes to your door , he'll be taking your GPS position and linking your ass to a satellite and far as GUNS , get them if you want ,the future looks bleak with Obama & Rahm Emanuel , who says " citizenship is not an entitlement program " giving more reasons to be armed and this lefty who believes in the Constitution and Freedom will be packing .

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Decent, law-abiding victims/survivors of mental illness...
Posted by: TimV on May 7, 2009 2:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
are also verbally targeted by a lot of the 'gun nut' talk above. (Though it's not clear that the main article indulges in this form of bigotry.) By the way, most of us don't own guns and have no desire to.

Anyone who thinks the use of 'gun nut' and similar terms above doesn't slight the "truly mentally ill" should check out the follwing comments (among others): "Gun Nut", "Bob_G",
"Why the Label?" and the reply to the latter comment by 'Crazy H'.

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Americans are NUTS
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on May 7, 2009 2:26 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
period. Take a look at Howard Zinn's analysis:

* 30% of the population started a *domestic war* with their neighbours & bad colonial management, mainly because they didn't want to pay taxes & wanted to continue to profit from smuggling, etc. (sounds a bit like the War on Drugs, n'est-ce pas?... see, Iran-Contra was just 'being American!')

* 30% wanted no part of armed conflict & wanted to settle differences & injustices through strong efforts in existing channels of social reform.

* 30% really didn't have a problem (they were already invested in the established pecking order of bad government)

After the bloodbath, when many had either died or moved away...

Americans *justified* what could have been settled over a longer period & without bloodshed, by saying 'well, to become THIS nation, we had to become savage killers who ran rough-shod through the countryside... its just part of who we are!' Thus, whenever Americans get slighted in the teensiest bit... they snap to an insulting posture, grab for the guns & start posturing about their superiority

Frankly, Americans never did learn how to get along with others.

AND YOU HAVEN'T PUT DOWN THE KILLING EVER SINCE.

Instead of learning to GET ALONG with other nations, you learned bullydom, brutality & 'might makes right!'

"Corruption is why we WIN! ~ Syriana

...then you made SURE nobody else got to live in harmony, either.

& you wonder why American 'patriots' scream that "WE need GUNS! to be Free!!"

its because, its the only tool you've got in your kit... & you lived in a country so large, there was always the option to run away from the messes you made.

If you'd taken the time to *get past the idea that 'only guns create freedom, equality or social change'... or even taken the time to actually **create reforms within established systems**...
the World would be a much less violent & cruel place*

WHY?
because so much of our World is pumped directly into the US military-industrial complex. & you just *couldn't wait to get your hands on the Nazi think-tank freaks, could you?*

imagine what you could have accomplished if you'd learned to be patient & actually act constructively within established culture & laws.

nah. "who needs 'please' when we've got guns?" - Jack Johnson

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WHAT?
Posted by: hughesrg on May 7, 2009 2:59 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ok you started the story about us "gun nuts" and then somehow morphed it into some quasi neo-nazi saga in some small, boon-dock town in CA. What does one have to do with the other except to maybe sensationalize what is a NATIONAL phenomenon right now (shortage of ammo) by painting yet another cliched, extreme left biased picture of what people who own guns are by lumping us all together as some racist group of right-wing nut jobs ready to snap. Really? WTF, is this what you call honest "journalism"? Well I happen to live in NY, about 60 miles north of NYC which happens to be a relatively progressive leaning, BLUE area that is home to many of us "nuts" who choose to exercise our 2nd amendment right, who can't seem to find any ammo either. Am I stocking up for the "violent revolt" no not really, I do like being prepared for whatever may come but I also just like to target shoot when I can. I don't like what's going on right now. Shit, take a look around not many people do, but to lump everyone who feels a bit of (warranted) dissent against our lovely "representatives" and their corporate leash holders that also owns a gun into the same category as some backwoods, militia wannabe, racist jackasses is just ignorant. You don't like guns? Fine, you don't have to own one. But leave us that do the fuck alone and stop it already with these fear mongering, over opinionated op-ed pieces you call professional journalism.

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Praise Jesus and Pass The Ammo
Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars on May 7, 2009 3:00 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yea I see this article on the AlterNet then I'll see another article poo pooing gun ownership. With the current Oligarchs we have running the show, I think I better learn how to survive on my own and not suck on the government tit much longer before the well runs dry. I know most of the ANet staff live in the gum drop Village however here in reality, I'll stick to praising Jesus and pass the ammo

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A SANE GAY TOTALLY LEFT LIBERAL PATRIOT
Posted by: maRcmAN1 on May 7, 2009 3:05 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm sick to death of being called a GUN NUT. I am sick to death of retarded Liberals who are CLUELESS about gun ownership and the reasons behind the acute need for 2nd Amendment. Especially NOW -- these days when government and big business (synonymous) corruption and control is creeping into every facet of our lives. "The right is wrong but the LEFT is STUPID"

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» welcome to the club of individuals Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars
» unload and unwind Posted by: techcafe
How about a little cooperation, together?
Posted by: undead on May 7, 2009 3:48 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wouldn't be nice if people got together and just helped one another build a better place to live?

Instead of stocking up on bullets to use against the other, how about finishing the homes together with sweat equity?

I would bet that people of all races would build a community, respect and friendships with one another.

The corporate types love to have the working class fighting each other. This way the ruling elite can maintain power.

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we should all get guns -- and march on DC
Posted by: nate on May 7, 2009 6:35 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
demand national health care now! Living wages now! End NAFTA now! End the wars now! It won't happen until we, the people, FORCE the gansters that have stolen the country to give it back!

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intimidation tactic
Posted by: techcafe on May 7, 2009 6:53 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the far-right extremists aren't just paranoid & irrational,
what they're doing now is blatant intimidation.

stockpiling weapons & ammo sends a clear message to obama
don't fuck with us
OR there's gonna be a shitload of trouble.

thing is, most of them are rabidly racist & perpetually angry to begin with,
and NOW they are mad as hell that a black man is their president.

some of these nazi-wannabe honkies are tweaking on their pent-up hate & rage,
locked & loaded with itchy trigger fingers at the ready, just waiting to POP!

btw, did i mention... i'm SO friggin glad i do NOT live in America!
cuz you mofos are armed & dangerous... and angry!

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Ugh
Posted by: Femmy68 on May 7, 2009 7:49 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It never ceases to amaze and disgust me how ignorant people can be. To start with, regulation is not synonymous with socialism.(and Liberal is not a dirty word.) Although both do control some actions of the populace, regulation keeps the crooks from taking advantage of Joe Average. Without that regulation, we get an economy such as the one we're trying to repair today. If the Reagan Administration had not enacted so much deregulation, banks could not have loaned money to people they knew couldn't pay them back to make a fast buck and pass the debt on to other entities who sold them to others and made all these millions of non-existent cash. When it was realized that none of the properties were worth what they'd been sold for, the "bubble popped". They didn't really loose money, they were made to see that the money they had wasn't worth but maybe a third of what they'd made it out to be. It was their own faults. Not the "irresponsible purchaser" who "couldn't meet their debt obligation." Who would be able to go from making a $500 mortgage payment to a $1200 mortgage payment while working for the local McDonalds? The crooked and UNREGULATED banks used their financial mumbo jumbo to confuse the consumers into thinking they could dig out before they lost everything. They did not realize the home they were buying wasn't worth half of what they were told it was worth. They couldn't refinance because of that reduced value and they couldn't sell because no one else would pay that much for it. They found themselves swindled.

The only way Obama is going to lead us into another civil war is if we have to regain control of the victims of the fear mongering republicans. Victims who are too dumb to think for themselves, so they just go on believing whatever the repugs tell them. Put your guns away and get a grip. We're not in this mess because of anything Barack Obama has done. We got here as a result of nearly 30 years of uncontrolled greed. Obama is a voice of reason following too many years of religious extremism allowed to run rampant within the government. What ever happened to separation of Church and State? This country was built by people fleeing religious persecution and the repugs are trying to bring it here. Enough is enough!!

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#%@%%#@@
Posted by: itouch backup on May 7, 2009 11:11 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
______________________________
Video Converter OS X

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Gun guys are socialists
Posted by: Perry Logan on May 8, 2009 3:28 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'd like to point out that gun owners are imposing a sort of unauthorized socialism on the rest of us.

Studies show that gun mayhem costs us several hundred billion dollars every year. It comes to around $500 per year for each and every American.

This means we're all footing the bill for the gun guys--even as they badmouth us and endanger our children.

Gun ownership is a form of illicit socialism, imposed by a minority of citizens. They love to talk about the Constitution, but they clearly don't give a flying f*ck how much damage their little toys do.

And they don't mind letting you and me pick up the tab.

It's worth noting that the American Nazi Party is admamantly pro-gun, as are anti-Semites, white separatists, militiamen, klansmen--and most alienated white males with anger issues.

I say we repeal the Second Amendment and replace it with the Right to Abortion.


Xe Technology: To Purify America

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» repeal the guns Posted by: techcafe
Werewolves
Posted by: Axiom69 on May 8, 2009 7:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The author must have been in the silver bullet section in order to see 9mm ammo going for a $1 a round. My ammo runs me about 30 to 35 bucks for a box of 100.

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Let's, be all means, have a complete analysis of the issue.
Posted by: Walks-in-Storms on May 8, 2009 7:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I suggest a full discussion of this issue here. Just facts in the form of statistics and recorded facts.

Questions that need to be answered include how many crimes are prevented, how many lives saves (or how many persons saved from injury), and of the statistics being reported by the media and official sources what are the statistically supported, further, facts?

With statistics being reported and demonstrating that everywhere gun ownership and carry have been license, violent crime rates have decreased markedly, what is the responsibility of those who argue for increased violence? What are the civil legal responsibilities of those who by their efforts assure injury or death of another?

Why would the fact that guns are the instrumentality of the tort change tort responsibility?

Et cetera.

Observe, please, the (more honored in the brief than the observance, to quote Shakespeare) "AlerNet will not tolerate caveat above, please.

This is a most serious matter, one that should have been put behind us long ago.

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Congress In 1994 Proposed 1-Year Shelf Life Ammunition
Posted by: Ross Wolf on May 8, 2009 11:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
During the run up to the 1994 passage of The Federal Assault Weapons Ban, Americans as they are now, stampeded gun stores buying weapons.

In 1994 before passage of the "Assault Ban" there wasn’t a legal definition what was an "assault weapon." Gun owners worried the “Ban” might include all semi-automatic firearms—guns that when fired—automatically extracted a bullet’s casing and reloaded the next round into the chamber.

Shortly after the 1994 Assault Weapons "Ban" passed, a member of Congress proposed a 1-Year shelf life for ammunition to stop Americans stockpiling ammunition: proposed that ammunition purchased by U.S. Citizens be biodegradable—self-destructing in 12-months. Subsequently that idea was shelved after dissenters pointed out forcing biodegradable ammunition on Americans would create a black market for foreign ammunition.

In 1994 as in 2009, speculators were buying massive amounts of semi-automatic guns and ammunition in expectation government would restrict gun-ownership. In 1994 gun-speculators got burnt: the Assault Weapons Ban included a provision prohibiting the sale or transfer of guns listed by government as “assault weapons.” It is problematic a new gun law passed by Congress might again include that transfer ban.

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Not all liberals are anti-gun
Posted by: thornwolf on May 8, 2009 1:20 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This tolerant progressive liberal believes in the citizenry arming itself, both to protect home and family from criminal attack and to ensure the triumph of the people over any government tyranny that might rear its ugly head. It is our right and our duty to protect not only ourselves and our families but also our country.

America has a lot to learn and a long way to go to be the kind of place its founding documents promise. But in America, unlike any other country, and for probably the first time in Earth history, the people are sovereign. In America, the people retain ultimate political power.

This sovereignty is a great thing. It is the fly in the Illuminati ointment, the plan stopper and deal breaker. It neatly sidetracks their vaunted new world order, and is very much worth protecting. Image the English queen being subject to the will of the British people! Now you know how big a deal it is.

Now if only the American people will exercise this awesome power.

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I am probably a gun rights extremist and even I think the hoarding is stupid
Posted by: abprosper on May 8, 2009 3:38 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look as a left/libertarian who that anyone not in state custody ought to be able to own almost any gun, any ammunition and carry it almost anywhere, no questions asked even I think hoarding ammunition is stupid.

The US is not going to ban handgun ammunition any time soon , no bills are being considered and very few of the new Democrats are gun grabbers anyway.


The last anti handgun ammunition bills were in the 80's (a Kennedy attempt to ban .25,3,2 and .380 ammo and the AP ammo ban) -- nothing is being considered and after the recent SCOTUS decision -- its likely not even legal

I can see putting away a few high capacity magazines just in case (the AWB is on the lefts agenda) but your pistol ammo is safe.

As for some "Mad Max" time -- well no. Despite what the left and right both think we are not going to blow up. Even if we were wouldn't non GMO seeds, water, food and toilet paper make more sense to hoard? If you plan to eat a bullet you only need one anyway.

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konawriter
Posted by: konawriter on May 8, 2009 11:23 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I guess I am a left-wing "gun nut"...4 pistols and 5 rifles - lots of ammo. I have my guns because I want to protect myself if the right wing nuts ever try anything. More lefties should give that some thought.

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"Gun nut!"
Posted by: Redviper on May 9, 2009 12:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Seeing this tired, overused phrase in the title was enough to inspire me not to read the article. Here it is: Whether I have 10-rounds or a million doesn't matter. As long as my "fellow man" minds his manners and keeps his hands to himself we're good. Simple, huh?

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Which weapon for protection should we buy?
Posted by: FURonnie on May 9, 2009 2:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With all of the talk about shot gun vs. rifle vs. pistol vs. revolver vs. automatic my vote is to just get a case of hand grenades. They work great! No bore to clean, no target practice and nor do I have to have the right ammo. Plus Grenades don't discriminate and if some one tries to take it from you after you pulled the pin and have not let go of the handle, just let them take it from you. Then jump back and watch the fun. Plus when it goes off folks will only think it's a cherry bomb. The other thing is they look awfully cool sitting on your desk. Heres what you do; When a bad guy shows up start and threatens you start juggling the grenade and whether they've got the drop on you, they just won't stand up against Mr. I don't care if both go to our maker.

By the way don't take that nut title too strongly as most passionatte folks who have hobbies are called "Nuts".

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ice cream
Posted by: bigbaddog on May 9, 2009 9:11 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anti gunners are the nuts.about time the ignorant shut up.

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Overblown hype.
Posted by: messedup on May 10, 2009 8:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I live in an area of about 250 thousand people, we've got one independent gun store, one. I've seen people buy ammo by the case, even brass prices are up right now, demand, etc. and it adds up. DOD did have a brass destruction policy going but they rescinded it very soon afterwards, why? .45 a pound for scrap brass, 2.45 for casings. Lots of rumors are flying, and they are many. First, some people are just hoarding, plain and simple, others worry that bullets and casings will get their own special serial numbers or markings, which would make any old ammo worth more later. With prices the way they are I'll target practice with the 22 or pellet gun instead.

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John R. Lott, Jr article
Posted by: MyLeftFoot on May 10, 2009 8:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The danger of children stumbling across guns pales in comparison to many other risks. Over 1,260 children under ten died in cars in 1999. Another 370 died as pedestrians hit by cars. Accidents involving residential fires took 484 children’s lives. Bicycles are much more likely to result in accidental deaths than guns. Fully 93 children under the age of ten drowned accidentally in bathtubs. Thirty-six children under five drowned in buckets during 1998. In fact, the number of children under ten who die from any type of accidental gunshot is smaller than the number of toddlers who drown in buckets. Yet few reporters crusade against buckets or bathtubs.

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Unanswered questions
Posted by: BShane on May 10, 2009 10:02 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was surprised the article had so few specifics about:
-Why people are buying record amounts of ammunition,
-What they are doing with it, and
-How it's related to the election of Obama.

The reporting about Victorville was interesting but tangential.

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These racist morons wouldn't know socialism if...
Posted by: kogwonton on May 10, 2009 8:08 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
they were bitten in the ass by an multinational oil bankster, taxed out of house and home, all while killing brown people overseas for resources they'll never see a single share of.

It isn't bad enough that every single thing from government itself, to defense, police, sanitation, education, and the roads they so love to use to drag local brown people behind their trucks upon, is socialism. Imagine what will happen when people are forced to use their own resources to defend themselves and their property or dispose of their own waste in their own back yards, or if they're forced to carry their own water (from a 'publicly owned' watering hole?).

As it stands I've never seen so much damned 'socialism' as I have under the watch of the so-called 'conservatives' as they handed over our whole government to multinationals to drive 'like they stole it'. Where were these right-wing idiots when Bush was burning down the whole house and wiping his ass with the Bill of Rights?

The cold-war needs to die publicly, and people need to wake up to the fact that EVERY government in all of history has been sold as a 'social' good, and was sustained by taxation.

Socialism looks pretty good when government actually does the job the Constitution mandates - "promote the general welfare", and "provide for the common defense" (against all enemies - foreign and domestic) from force and/or fraud via the legal system or the defense establishment.

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