Markos 'Kos' Moulitsas on Obama, Twittering, Fighting the Blue Dogs, and the Major Changes Coming

By Don Hazen, AlterNet. Posted May 4, 2009.

But of course now we're facing a sort of economic Armageddon. Am I surprised? I'd like to say "yeah," but after eight years of George Bush, nothing surprises me anymore. Disappoints me, but doesn't surprise me.

How does that affect the key agenda? I had a theory in 2008 that the bailouts -- the $700 billion that [Treasury Secretary Henry] Paulson and Bush asked for were an attempt to bankrupt the country before Barack Obama could enter the White House. Of course, Obama embraced that and double-downed on that, so my theory went out the window!

It seemed like a great theory at the time, but now I don't know anymore. We just saw recently that [Sen.] Arlen Specter [who has now joined the Democratic Party] is trying to use the economy as an excuse to flip-flop on EFCA. And we're seeing Republicans ratchet up this whole, "We can't chew gum and walk at the same time, " rhetoric, that Obama's doing too much and that the only thing he can focus on is the economy.

And of course during economic tough times there is always that rising anti-immigrant sentiment. Every time people are losing their jobs they're looking for a scapegoat. I'm hoping this time it's not so bad -- I'm not sensing a huge anti-immigrant backlash, because I think people are really blaming the AIGs and the bankers and Wall Street for the current problems. I don't think anybody really thinks that banks aren't lending because of illegal immigrants.

So I'm hopeful that the backlash doesn't materialize. But there is obviously moral and political reasons to push comprehensive immigration reform, and by all indications it seems the administration's going to push it. How far, remains to be seen.

Immigration and Populism

DH: Have you personally changed your position on immigration?

MM: I'm an immigrant, so I'm very liberal. Not in the political sense, but I think immigration should be embraced. I wrote today that immigration is embedded in the DNA of our country, and I believe that very strongly.

Culturally, we are a joining of all these immigrant cultures from time immemorial, and so this notion that immigration threatens the fabric of our country I think it actually is the fabric of our country. Is the country gonna look different in 2050? Yes, but I think the country looks different now than it did 50 years ago. We are a country that's constantly changing and that's essentially a strength.

We're constantly reinventing ourselves and it helps us stay relevant and current, as opposed to other countries that sort of stagnate under the weight of traditional cultures that don't evolve.

DHazen: In this context, do you have fears about a right-wing populist uprising?

MM: I have to say that I don't think it will be a right-wing populist uprising, but I think there could be a populist uprising. And I'm heartened that the American people have realized -- and you see this in the polling -- I'm not making this up, you know it's conservatives who just make stuff up -- than Pew has shown as well as ABC -- that nobody's blaming Obama for the current state of the economy, and they're willing to give him a couple of years.

In two years, if there's been no improvement in the economy, Obama should be held accountable and so should Democrats. Because we were elected on the promise that we start helping to fix this mess that Republicans left us. If we don't, then we're not doing our jobs. And I don't have any problem with being held accountable. Because one thing this country lacked for so long, and the reason we're in this mess, is a lack of accountability.

Consumption and the Economy

DH: What about the big pictures? Seems that Obama and the business establishment want to return to the consumptive ways of the past -- for people to spend and borrow again. Is this the way to go for the future? If not, what's the better alternative?

MM: I've been really heartened by the fact that public transportation ridership is up and miles driven are down, despite the fact that gas prices have come significantly down. So, the traditional notion is that as gas prices go up consumption goes down. But if the price goes down consumption will go up again. I think people are realizing that there are limits. This is scaring a lot of people.

I mean, this is economic Armageddon. It's brutal. And people are realizing that even if they're safe and secure in their jobs today, that's not necessarily the case a week from now. There's an uncertainty. And I think that's causing people to retrench, pay down debt, save a little bit of money and cut out some of the frills. There are the Great Depression-type people who still save bottles and jars in their basement just in case.

DH: The thrifty types.

MM: Yeah. I think generationally we may be scarred by this in a way that lowers our consumption. And when new generations come along, they won't have these experiences.

From a cultural standpoint though, the notion of "green" and of "carbon footprints" are really starting to become embedded in our consciousness. In ways that will effect our consumption patterns, whether it's consume less or making sure that when we do consume we do so in ways that are sustainable and have minimal impact on our environment.

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Don Hazen is the executive editor of AlterNet.

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