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The Bush White House's Appalling and Evil Legacy: Now We Know the Whole Story

By Frank Rich, The New York Times. Posted April 27, 2009.


Did we torture to extract bogus "intelligence" from detainees to make the case for Iraq?

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We don't like our evil to be banal. Ten years after Columbine, it only now may be sinking in that the psychopathic killers were not jock-hating dorks from a "Trench Coat Mafia," or, as ABC News maintained at the time, "part of a dark, underground national phenomenon known as the Gothic movement." In the new best seller "Columbine," the journalist Dave Cullen reaffirms that Dylan Klebold and Eric Harris were instead ordinary American teenagers who worked at the local pizza joint, loved their parents and were popular among their classmates.

On Tuesday, it will be five years since Americans first confronted the photographs from Abu Ghraib on "60 Minutes II." Here, too, we want to cling to myths that quarantine the evil. If our country committed torture, surely it did so to prevent Armageddon, in a patriotic ticking-time-bomb scenario out of "24." If anyone deserves blame, it was only those identified by President Bush as "a few American troops who dishonored our country and disregarded our values": promiscuous, sinister-looking lowlifes like Lynddie England, Charles Graner and the other grunts who were held accountable while the top command got a pass.

We've learned much, much more about America and torture in the past five years. But as Mark Danner recently wrote in The New York Review of Books, for all the revelations, one essential fact remains unchanged: "By no later than the summer of 2004, the American people had before them the basic narrative of how the elected and appointed officials of their government decided to torture prisoners and how they went about it." When the Obama administration said it declassified four new torture memos 10 days ago in part because their contents were already largely public, it was right.

Yet we still shrink from the hardest truths and the bigger picture: that torture was a premeditated policy approved at our government's highest levels; that it was carried out in scenarios that had no resemblance to "24"; that psychologists and physicians were enlisted as collaborators in inflicting pain; and that, in the assessment of reliable sources like the F.B.I. director Robert Mueller, it did not help disrupt any terrorist attacks.

The newly released Justice Department memos, like those before them, were not written by barely schooled misfits like England and Graner. John Yoo, Steven Bradbury and Jay Bybee graduated from the likes of Harvard, Yale, Stanford, Michigan and Brigham Young. They have passed through white-shoe law firms like Covington & Burling, and Sidley Austin.

Judge Bybee's rsum tells us that he has four children and is both a Cubmaster for the Boy Scouts and a youth baseball and basketball coach. He currently occupies a tenured seat on the United States Court of Appeals. As an assistant attorney general, he was the author of the Aug. 1, 2002, memo endorsing in lengthy, prurient detail interrogation "techniques" like "facial slap (insult slap)" and "insects placed in a confinement box."


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Mr. Rich, why are you scared to write about 9/11 TOOTH?
Posted by: brunowe on Apr 27, 2009 12:21 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is a proven fact, established by great Americans, godlike in their patriotism, that the foundation of all the war crimes was the destruction of the WTC by government-trained radioactive beavers with adamantium teeth, who were released into the ducts of WTC by Marvin Bush himself and who chewed through the supports!

If Alternet and Common Dreams did their duty as alternative media; you would be doing this story. There are pictures of the radioactive beavers out there! There are released CIA memos regarding experiments with mutant animal technology going back to the 50s! Anyone who can add two and two and, like myself, get it right with no more than two tries realizes this!

What is putting pressure on you Mr. Rich? Are you afraid the beavers will eat the foundations the buildings in which you live? You can email me at pfspaghettiforbrains@area51isreal.com if you think I'm full of it.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Mr. brunowe, grow up Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Our Underlying Unity Posted by: cedaray1
» Wow PointyHead... Posted by: brunowe
» It's as good as I need to do Posted by: brunowe
» Point? Posted by: GuitarBill
» Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Posted by: GuitarBill
» 9/11 TOOTH? Posted by: sasquuatch55
» marvin did it Posted by: techcafe
» RE: marvin did it Posted by: EncinoM
» Hold it, that's the Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: marvin did it Posted by: techcafe
» You're right, Gisele Posted by: Centavo
» I don't cast pearls before swine. Posted by: GuitarBill
» ... disinformation, shall we? Posted by: parrhesia
» Can you read, Mister "Truth"? Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Can you read, Mister "Truth"? Posted by: realtruther
» "I assume now" Posted by: realtruther
» RE: "I assume now" Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: "I assume now" Posted by: realtruther
» Okay... Posted by: EncinoM
» Elephant in the room Posted by: cedaray1
» RE: How much does it pay? Posted by: D. Shenary
The Rot is Bipartisan, So the Solutions Must Come from Outside
Posted by: DrBrian on Apr 27, 2009 12:28 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The moral rot in Washington is bipartisan. While the Republicans have ruled with the moral values of their conservative Christian and Jewish base--warmongering, summary execution, torture, lying, illegal spying and gross, intentional violations of the Constitution, laws and treaties--the Democrats have been, with very few notable exceptions, complicit, conniving or craven.

As Einstein wisely said of politics, "Problems cannot be solved at the same level of thinking that created them." We need real, meaningful change.

Consider this: If principled progressives supported the Greens, and principled conservatives the Libertarians, we could change things. Here's how.

The two parties agree upon a common agenda, whilst agreeing to disagree on other issues. Agree not to compete, whereby Greens run against incumbent Democrats and Libertarians against incumbent Republicans in the 2010 House races.

It would take a lot of grassroots support to overcome the tremendous financial advantages of incumbency, but it could be done. If all of the rapidly increasing numbers of disaffected voters turned out, many seats could be won; remember, in a 3 way race it takes only a plurality.

If the new coalition got enough seats to deny either of the two major parties a majority, it would have tremendous influence.

Best to focus on the House, because only a third of the Senate seats would be on the ballot, but even there 9 or 10 seats taken from the Democrats could deny them a majority.

It's better than the crazy ideas in the air of armed rebellion, riots and nationwide strikes.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

How About Phony "Al-Qaeda" (AL-CIAda) tortured for 9/11...?
Posted by: PointMan on Apr 27, 2009 1:22 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is now exhaustive peer-reviewed science that proves tons of explosives were used on the WTC towers on 9/11...


Scientists Find Explosives in World Trade Center Dust

Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11

BENTHAM - The Open Chemical Physics Journal


This blows the garbage lid off the 9/11 DC-media crock & bull “Arab cave–boys-with-WalMart-tools” conspiracy theory. Naturally Alternet will not cover it. Ditto for the NY Times follies, the rest of the corporate media and (of course) the usual DC madhouse

http://www.patriotsquestion911.com

Tortured lies from start to finish.

Now watch the establishment Troll parade march out with their usual denial and BS...

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» Brunowe, is that you? Posted by: dustdevil
» RE: Brunowe, is that you? Posted by: Reader in Japan
» RE: Brunowe, is that you? Posted by: Reader in Japan
» RE: Brunowe, is that you? Posted by: Reader in Japan
» mad as a tinfoil hatter Posted by: techcafe
» AssHat speaks BS Posted by: PointMan
» So, what does that prove? Posted by: GuitarBill
Coercive interrogation is not new
Posted by: DignityForAll on Apr 27, 2009 1:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
GWU National Security Archive, Prisoner Abuse: Patterns from the Past, fulltext PDFs of CIA interrogation manuals written in the 1960s and 1980s. Fascinating to read.

Clearly stated in the notes in the 1983 manual that prolonged sensory deprivation, stress positions, disorientation of space and time, lack of sleep, etc cause unbearable psychological pain, are the BEST METHOD of breaking down the psyche of resistant subjects, and are a form of TORTURE which is illegal to use in interrogation.

Why aren't these documents discussed more?

Why is there still a debate about whether sensory deprivation is torture, when this was admitted by the CIA in the 1980's?

---
The two CIA manuals, "Human Resource Exploitation Training Manual-1983" and "KUBARK Counterintelligence Interrogation-July 1963," were originally obtained under the Freedom of Information Act by the Baltimore Sun in 1997. The KUBARK manual includes a detailed section on "The Coercive Counterintelligence Interrogation of Resistant Sources," with concrete assessments on employing "Threats and Fear," "Pain," and "Debility." The language of the 1983 "Exploitation" manual drew heavily on the language of the earlier manual, as well as on Army Intelligence field manuals from the mid 1960s generated by "Project X"-a military effort to create training guides drawn from counterinsurgency experience in Vietnam. Recommendations on prisoner interrogation included the threat of violence and deprivation and noted that no threat should be made unless the questioner "has approval to carry out the threat." The interrogator "is able to manipulate the subject's environment," the 1983 manual states, "to create unpleasant or intolerable situations, to disrupt patterns of time, space, and sensory perception."

After Congress began investigating reports of Central American atrocities in the mid 1980s, particularly in Honduras, the CIA's "Human Resource Exploitation" manual was hand edited to alter passages that appeared to advocate coercion and stress techniques to be used on prisoners. CIA officials attached a new prologue page on the manual stating: "The use of force, mental torture, threats, insults or exposure to inhumane treatment of any kind as an aid to interrogation is prohibited by law, both international and domestic; it is neither authorized nor condoned"-making it clear that authorities were well aware these abusive practices were illegal and immoral, even as they continued then and now.
---

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» RE: Coercive interrogation is not new Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Coercive interrogation is not new Posted by: Reader in Japan
Little things
Posted by: Perry Logan on Apr 27, 2009 2:37 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's an awful story, but it helps to prove 9/11 was not an inside job.

If 9/11 had been an inside job, the links to Iraq would have been carefully forged beforehand. The perps would have planted plenty of evidence to prove Saddam Hussein was respinsible for 9/11. There would be no need to commit war crimes to establish these links.

As always, reality disproves the conspiracy paradigm.

There's also the fact that international bankers would never fund a plan to close down Wall Street. Little things.

Busload of Faith

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The "Whole Story"? Not from the NY Times & its Corporate MSM
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on Apr 27, 2009 3:13 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not even close.

Frank Rich's little expose is a farce without the lynchpin that holds together the bogus Orwellian FISA spy and rogue security state. Namely: a 9/11 criminal coverup that is admitted to by Kean and Hamilton and hundreds upon hundreds of qualified professionals in and out of government.

Patriots Question 9/11

Above all the naked 9/11 sting and its 9/11 "war on terror" travesty of 1.000 LIES (Center for Public Integrity) has proven America is no democracy. For a real democracy would have cleaned itself of such blood money filth and corruption long ago. With the endless scandal of "Wall Street Bailouts" for the ruling class, it follows that an American Washington-MSM circus "government" is owned lock, stock and barrel by what amounts to a Fascist organized corporate crime network.

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Present/former Attorneys of DOJ Collusion with Judges of the Judicial Branch to Use Cronyism
Posted by: IsidoroRDL on Apr 27, 2009 3:30 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Regarding the above referenced issue, I write as a Nam Vet, a former White House appointee in both the Carter and Reagan Administrations, and as an independent federal civil litigation practitioner for the past three decades, to underscore that history has shown that Democracies such as ours are precarious institutions. Therefore, constant vigilance must be maintained to preserve our Constitution from undue government encroachment by the use of legal sophistry of lawyers and judges intentionally acting to circumvent the limitations on the powers granted the government by “the people” in the Constitution and the Rule of Law.

For this reason we must make certain that as a Nation faced with the threat of terrorism, we do not transform ourselves into legal tyrannies by permitting the legal profession to utilize cronyism to immunize government employees and judges from accountability for negligent, or criminal acts outside of their scope of authority, judicial capacity, or jurisdiction. As Thomas Jefferson stated more than 200 years ago,

"[t]he germ of destruction of our nation is in the power of the judiciary, an irresponsible body - working like gravity by night and by day, gaining a little today and a little tomorrow, and advancing its noiseless step like a thief over the field of jurisdiction, until all shall render powerless the checks of one branch over the other and will become as venal and oppressive as the government from which we separated."

In this context, we must always recall the sorry behavior of German judges and lawyers use of cronyism during Nazi era which did play an important part in allowing Hitler to power, because, “[l]egal scholars are still perplexed to explain how a highly developed and sophisticated legal system – German law and jurisprudence under the Weimar Republic – became so readily corrupted and how legal actors – German judges and other judicial officials, lawyers, and law professors – could so easily become willing accomplices in this process. The sad fact is that legal sophistication did not inoculate German law and German legal actors from actively participating in the perverse changes being made to the German legal system during the Nazi era, including the legal exclusion of German Jews from the concept of “citizen,” and the Nuremberg Race Laws, which gradually transformed the non-citizen Jew into a subhuman not worthy of life. By the time the gas vans came and the human slaughter factories were built in Auschwitz and the other death camps, the murder of the six million Jews and other persecuted minorities was done completely within the framework of German law.” Professor Michael Bazyler, The Legacy of the Holocaust and Lessons for Today: Research for a New Textbook Holocaust, Genocide, and the Law, Yad Vshem The Holocaust Martyrs’ and Heroes Remembrance Authority, 2004. (Emphasis added).

The evidence confirms that in reality the issue of immunity for “torture,” is a subpart of the larger issue of the on gong criminal conspiracy of present and former attorneys in DOJ and judges in the Judicial Branch to intentionally violate Congress’ delegations under the Rules Enabling Act and the Judicial Conference Act to deny access to an impartial court. Consequently, the evidence confirms the use of cronyism to surreally assert immunity for past and present acts tortious and criminal acts in violation of 18 U.S.C. §§ 241, 242, 1204, and 1523, by government attorneys and judges to cover-up and deny me access to an impartial jury trial under RICO for the criminal obstruction of my statutory rights as a father and retaliation by issuing and enforcing a void order to deprive me of my right of employment as an independent sole practitioner.

Therefore, there must be an investigation of the collusion of DOJ and the Judicial Branch (http://www.liamsdad.org/others/isidoro.shtml).

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Now We Know the Whole Story?!
Posted by: saadasim on Apr 27, 2009 3:41 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't think we will ever "Know the Whole Story" of what the Bush regime did or let happen. They spent one tenth investigating 9/11 as was spent on Clinton's BJ.

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Tortured Logic
Posted by: Tom Degan on Apr 27, 2009 4:02 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In a piece that was published on December 13, 2007 right here on merrie ol' AlterNet, Ray McGovern (No relation to George, honest!) asked the musical question, "Should the United States of America be using forms of torture dating back to the Spanish Inquisition?"

And you thought that the only thing George W. Bush had been torturing all of those years was the English language!!

People have to be prosecuted and sent to federal prison for a very, very long time. It is now as clear as daylight that the only reason they resorted to these methods was to extract bogus information in order to justify committing the worst military blunder in the history of this once-great country.

PREDICTION:
George W. Bush will be remembered by history, primarily, as the first (pray last) former chief-executive to go to federal prison.

Sound crazy? Stay tuned.

www.tomdegan.blogspot.com

— Tom Degan, Goshen, NY

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» RE: Tortured Logic Posted by: Ahimsa
Tortue uniquely suited to producing "actionable intelligence"
Posted by: don_alejandro on Apr 27, 2009 4:51 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Cheney promoted torture because torture reliably provided what Cheney refers to as “actionable intelligence.” Note that such information need not be true or even remotely accurate or reliable - as long as it provided justification for Cheney-Bush to pursue hard right policies and legislation or to invade Iraq, the information was considered “actionable intelligence.”

For Cheney’s purposes, repetitive torture was uniquely useful in providing “actionable intelligence.” His torture victims eventually learned to fabricate whatever details the torturers sought (such as a link between 9/11 and Iraq).

Here’s what the fawning corporate media needs to get - Cheney didn’t stupidly approve of torture despite it’s unreliability at producing true information – he approved of torture because it can be used to fabricate (i.e., “fix”) intelligence around his desired policies.

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Easy to blame Dubya when you got an administration playing kissyface with Dubya and his crooks !
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield on Apr 27, 2009 5:16 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And when you have a stupid leader who defines leadership and telling the voters "make me do it", it's easy to simply get mad at Dubya just to cover up for Obama's lack of leadership. Don't get me wrong. I am completely disgusted with the way Dubya wrecked this country and I have no support for him or his criminal rethugs who support him. However, what pisses me off is that the so-called opposition has gone out of its way year after year to play kissyface and act like proud cowards. When the hell will Obama, Pelosi, Reid, etc ... show real leadership and opposition? And election after election, we're told to just shut up and vote for "any Democrat". Never mind that we'll end up with more DLCers and Blue Doggies most likely to play kissyface with the rethugs. When will this madness stop? When will truly moderated and/or independent minded Republicans and Democrats be given a chance let alone more Independents?

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Much yet to be Revealed
Posted by: US Citizen on Apr 27, 2009 5:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We're beginning to get the story on the use of torture by the Bush administration, but there are many other facets of the Bush administration that still need to be revealed. Basically we had a spoiled Preasident who had nothing but contempt for democracy and people. There are many stories left to be revealed, and we need to get as much information as possible so this kind of Presidency never happens again.

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Oil and Vendetta,Precipitators but ain't the Whole Story.
Posted by: Purple Girl on Apr 27, 2009 5:37 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No doubt the desire to secure iraqi Oil fields were paramount to these Two Oilmen, and their Saudi Oil Royals.
But W even admitted he had a vendetta against Saddam regarding 'Desert Storm', He was gonna vinidcate his Daddy.
But What is more striking is why after supporting Saddam for so long in his war with Iran, did the Bushies from HW admin feel compelled to not only topple Saddam, but assure his execution? Was Saddam going to spill some beans- like about the Anthrax he ws provided which he used on the Kurds? The knowledge that the Anthrax attacks here were perpetrated by the same guys who gave it to him in the '80's. Funny how quickly McCain "knew' the Anthrax had 'come from saddam'- much faster than even those testing it for identifying markers. Who told McCain to make such a claim- or why was he motivated to make such a claim?
As for the 'Whole Story'- I doubt we have learned everything. In fact I think Cheney's 'openness' warrants some consideration- what other high crimes is he hoping these 'Torture' memos distract US from discovering...The Heinous crimes committed at those Foreign 'black Sites'? The full extent of the people targeted (and killed) by his Assasination squad?
Something to ponder, If Bhouto had won the Election in Pakistan, would it still be the safe haven for AQ & the Taliban it is now? Would there have been the appeasement of the Swat Valley? Would there be the need to provide further military funding? Would the People of Pakistan United to expel the extremeist, thus not requiring any further miltiary funding or assistance- and what would that have done to the profits of say Halliburton, KBR & Blackwater?
Cheney has crawled out of his 'undisclosed' shadow for a reason. His push for more memo releases stinks of Shiny Object distraction and Cover up.Where's Cheney's snake like 'smirk', it's become a smile- and smiling face don't tell the truth.Beware he has more to hide than just these torture crimes- ones he know if discovered will have no justification, and most likely international implications far beyond detainees.Keep digging Friends this man is hiding something He knows will get him executed, not just imprisoned.

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"The Banality of Bush White House Evil"
Posted by: Beck on Apr 27, 2009 5:37 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's Frank Rich's own title. It's not as zingy, I suppose. Lacks one of those high-energy modifiers.

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High Oil Prices Led to US Economic Collapse
Posted by: US Citizen on Apr 27, 2009 5:58 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One story that still needs to be told is the still unexplained huge price increase that occurred in the spring and summer of 2008 that led to over $4.00 a gallon gasoline. We all know about the Bush and Cheney families' close ties to the oil industry. Why did this price increase occur? Six months of the expensive oil and gasoline culminated in the US economic collapse.

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Japanese soldiers were convicted and executed for waterboarding US POWs
Posted by: MeyravLevine on Apr 27, 2009 6:02 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
during WWII.

From Politifact:
After World War II, an international coalition convened to prosecute Japanese soldiers charged with torture. At the top of the list of techniques was water-based interrogation, known variously then as 'water cure,' 'water torture' and 'waterboarding,' according to the charging documents. It simulates drowning." Politifact went on to report, "A number of the Japanese soldiers convicted by American judges were hanged, while others received lengthy prison sentences or time in labor camps."

Here is a partial list of US officials that must be prosecuted for authorizing and conducting torture:

Bush
Cheney
Addington
Jay Bybee
Yoo
Gonzales
General Petraeus, and other military commanders.
CIA officials and interrogators.
Mukasey (for covering up the war crimes)

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» Don't Forget Rice And Rumsfeld! Posted by: QQOblivion
We've known for a long time now!
Posted by: Spiritgirl on Apr 27, 2009 6:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We've known for years that those pictures from Abu-Graib were not produced in a vacuum! I mean for heaven sake, let us stop pretending that those images were just the work "of a few bad apples"! The military cannot survive without "the good order and discipline" of it's structure! And the same way that "those bad apples" were prosecuted because they broke the law, those that "justified" torture should be prosecuted also!

This is really about what we as Americans believe and that is irrespective of party - do we believe that the rule of law applies equally to everyone, or do we really believe that the political elites are above the law!? Because if that is the case than Lynndie Englund and the group should be released because after all - they too were only following orders they were given! They were just stupid enough to take pictures of the whole thing!

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The Whole story..your kidding right?
Posted by: Zimbly on Apr 27, 2009 7:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am afraid this is only the tip of the iceberg.
But if Holder and Congress finally get the cajones to prosecute Bush and Cheney, we'll find out a lot more "evil crap" that they did and had in store for the American people.

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Greatest Evils
Posted by: QQOblivion on Apr 27, 2009 7:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So, this is what happened: One of the greatest evils ever done in Americans' names -- the Iraq war -- was "justified" via another one of the greatest evils ever done in our names -- torture. As Rich says, we do need more than a commission -- with its grants of immunity. We need prosecutions! Can you imagine if a regular American, not a politician, tortured or ordered the torture of someone else? That person would definitely go to prison, probably for life. Let alone, imagine if the torture was done many times and to lots of people, and at least 43 people DIED from it, as has happened with the Bush administration's torture. But we have to just "look forward", according to President Obama. Hey, the need to look forward wouldn't be a valid defense for some regular American accused of torturing even one person!

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WHEN THE PRISONERS EVENTUALLY "TALK" AND WRITE
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Apr 27, 2009 8:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That is when they have lawyers, book publishers and nothing to stop them from "talking". All the truth that was extracted from them will be written about. How all this 'helpful information' was obtained will be explained. Who said what just to make them stop. Will most of them be blown off as trying to cash in? Were they lying then or are they lying now? Can't be both. No wonder the crafters of this war on terror are scared to death. ANNA

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No, we don't "Know The Whole Truth"
Posted by: Defenestrator on Apr 27, 2009 8:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's a bad title that didn't come from the author. There are still more documents- and photographs- that will be released soon or are still being fought over.

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Do We Really Know The Whole Story?
Posted by: sunlakedude on Apr 27, 2009 9:02 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'll bet you a bushel of newly cut Crawford Ranch sage brush that there's a lot more to the Bush story than we know now. That administration was filled with dark, malevolent characters lurking in the shadows. Who knows what other horrible things occured that still have not seen the light of day?
And they may never see the light of day.

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The Danes Did It - They Analysed The Physical Evidence From 9/11 at University of Copenhagen
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Apr 27, 2009 8:59 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Niels Harrit and 8 other scientists found nano-thermite in the dust from the World Trade Center. He is interviewed on danish TV2 News.


Extract

"International researchers have found traces of explosives among the World Trade Center rubble.
A new scientific article concludes that impacts from the two hijacked aircraft did not cause the collapses in 2001.
Molten metal pours out of the South Tower several minutes before the collapse.
This indicates the whole structure was being weakened in advance.
Then the regular explosives come into play.
The actual collapse sequence had to be perfectly timed, all the way down.
What quantities are we talking about?
A lot. There were only two planes, but three skyscrapers collapsed.
We know roughly how much dust was created.
The pictures show huge quantities, everything but the steel was pulverised.
And we know roughly how much unreacted thermite we have found.
This is the “loaded gun”, material that did not ignite for some reason.
We are talking about tonnes. Over 10 tonnes, possibly 100 tonnes.
You cannot fudge this kind of science.
We have found it. Unreacted thermite.
Hundreds of thousands of people around the world, have long known that the three buildings were demolished.
This has been crystal clear.
Our research is just the last nail in the coffin.
This is not the ‘smoking gun’, it is the ‘loaded gun’.
Each day, thousands of people realise that the WTC was demolished.
That is something unstoppable."



Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe

We have discovered distinctive red/gray chips in all the samples we have studied of the dust produced by the destruction of the World Trade Center. Examination of four of these samples, collected from separate sites, is reported in this paper. These red/gray chips show marked similarities in all four samples. One sample was collected by a Manhattan resident about ten minutes after the collapse of the second WTC Tower, two the next day, and a fourth about a week later.

Department of Chemistry, University of Copenhagen, Copenhagen, DK-2100, Denmark.

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» Have a look at this, then: Posted by: LeftWright
» Most curious. Posted by: Bliss Doubt
Let's have a Nuremberg Trial here
Posted by: Outspokengrandmother on Apr 27, 2009 9:04 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If America is ever to regain its stature we must bring the Bush criminals to court. We can't hang Germans and Japanese because they lost a war and not hold our own criminals accountable. Fully 30 plus % of our population and it's probably closer to 50% still don't realize that what Bush-Cheney and Company did was illegal and immoral. To regain our world leadership position, these men must be put in the docks and face their crimes like every other criminal. What would have happened in Germany if Hitler had lived and we just let him go with the statement that we wanted to look forward not backward? Can anyone imagine us doing that? We must educate our population to the actions of our former leaders or Neo Cons, Neo Nazis, Neo Crazies will just do it again. They did it because they could and we have to teach those that follow them that they can't.

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» RE: Let's have a Nuremberg Trial here Posted by: theblackgeorgecarlin
We should stop
Posted by: wormfarmer on Apr 27, 2009 11:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
debating this issue and prosecute those that our judicial system finds responsible. The longer we delay this action, the potential for these acts, (everything from 9-11 to the torture of people in our possession),will drift from the conscientiousness of people. We should pursue the values and standards that reflect how we as a PEOPLE, want the rest of the world to see. This behavior by our government and our society has to be stopped, otherwise our lack of ethics in our society will destroy us. Lets prosecute according to how our laws and ethical values guide us, and then move on. DON'T LET THIS DRIFT AWAY!
If we let this happen, it will bite us in the ass, again

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Obama Has Missed His Moment by Chris Hedges - Part 1
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield on Apr 27, 2009 12:20 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]

Barack Obama has squandered his presidency. He had a fleeting moment to challenge the casino capitalism and financial recklessness of our economic and political elite. He could have orchestrated a state socialism that would have provided a safety net for tens of millions of Americans faced with dislocation and misery. The sums he has doled out to Wall Street could have been used to force companies to keep workers on the job or create new banks to open up credit. But he lacked the foresight and the courage to challenge entrenched power. And now we are headed down one of two frightening roads-massive deflation or hyperinflation. Neither will be pleasant.

Hyman Minsky-an economist largely ignored during his lifetime and now held up as something of a prophet-argued that speculative bubbles, and the financial collapses that follow them, are an inevitable consequence of unregulated capitalism. Minsky, an economics professor at Washington University in St. Louis who died in 1996, warned: "The normal functioning of our economy leads to financial trauma and crises, inflation, currency depreciations, unemployment and poverty in the middle of what could be virtually universal affluence-in short ... financially complex capitalism is inherently flawed." He called for socialized banking and stimulus packages to protect workers.

Our Minsky moment, however, has passed. Obama did not introduce radical measures to change our financial structures. And the outlook, even from Obama's chief financial advisers, is very gloomy. The U.S. economy will continue to contract "for some time to come," said Lawrence Summers, director of the White House National Economic Council. "I expect the economy will continue to decline," with "sharp declines in employment for quite some time this year," Summers said Sunday on "Fox News Sunday."

The International Monetary Fund has forecast that the U.S. economy will shrink 2.8 percent this year and have no growth in 2010, with unemployment rising to 10.1 percent.

Deflation, for the moment, remains our most immediate threat. The Labor Department reported that in March the consumer price index fell 0.4 percent over the last year, the first decline in over 50 years. Home values have fallen in the last year by 18 percent. Our current deflation is not the massive deflation endured during the Great Depression, but if it continues, and it becomes sustained, it will wreck our economy. I suspect that the few trillion dollars thrown at an economy that may have lost as much as $40 trillion in wealth means deflation will win out.

A sustained deflation, such as the one that has afflicted Japan, would make it much harder for borrowers, who would have less cash, to pay off debt. It would fuel more defaults, see more bankruptcies and dry up credit. It would lead to a fall in wages. Those attempting to sell houses, or any other products, would watch helplessly as the value of what they own evaporated.

Classical economic theory states that when you pump huge sums of money into the economy you produce inflation. And Fed Chairman Ben Bernanke would like to trigger inflation to relieve the heavy debts weighing on many banks and investment houses. Inflation, because it reduces the value of the dollar, effectively devalues debts and reduces what many owe. This push toward inflation is why we have low interest rates. This is why we are printing and borrowing hundreds of billions of dollars. And this is why projected deficits are almost beyond comprehension.

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Obama Has Missed His Moment by Chris Hedges Part 2
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield on Apr 27, 2009 12:21 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Congressional Budget Office recently released its analysis of the Obama administration's 10-year budget proposal. The projected deficit for fiscal year 2009 is $1.8 trillion. And the CBO projects deficits over the next 10 years that annually are between about $650 billion and $1 trillion. The CBO also projects that the outstanding federal debt held by the public will increase from 40.8 percent of GDP in 2008 to 82.4 percent in 2019. This is a doubling of the national debt over the next 10 years. These deficits are being produced to jump-start the economy, to prevent deflation and to produce inflation.

Inflation, which may look good if you are a Wall Street firm overloaded with bad debt, is as risky as deflation, however. It can easily morph into hyperinflation and bring, like deflation, political and economic instability. It can lead to runs on banks. It can make your currency worthless. It discourages investment and thrift. And when you borrow at the level we are borrowing at you frequently debauch your currency. This could lead to the dollar being abandoned as a global currency. Why would the Chinese, or anyone else, want to keep buying our debt while we work overtime to devalue our currency? It means, in essence, that they can never make a profit and what they own is being reduced daily in value.

Hyperinflation is never controlled domestically. It is created by outside forces. If China and other buyers of our debt view the endlessly increasing American deficit spending as a threat to the viability of the U.S. dollar they will abandon the dollar and reduce their purchases of treasury bills. Chinese leaders have already questioned the wisdom of keeping foreign reserves predominantly in the form of U.S. dollar-denominated treasury bills and bonds. And if they walk away from the dollar our currency will become junk and hyperinflation will race through the society like a plague.

Deflation or hyperinflation will be our nemesis. These are the only two options left. The speculators on Wall Street and in the White House are again rolling the dice. But be assured that no matter what combination comes up we are going to be fleeced.
© 2009 TruthDig.com

Chris Hedges writes a regular column for Truthdig.com. Hedges graduated from Harvard Divinity School and was for nearly two decades a foreign correspondent for The New York Times. He is the author of "American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America."

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"We" will never know the whole story.
Posted by: BobNoxious on Apr 27, 2009 12:24 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The seemingly infinite sea of secret documents of the Cheney/Bush conspiracy won't be completely revealed until long after we are all dead. (There are still documents from the Warren Commission in 1964 we still haven't seen.) Historians will collectively say, "WTF!"

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???
Posted by: BobNoxious on Apr 27, 2009 12:29 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What the fuck does this have to do with torture?

Besides that, after less than one hundred days, its been declared that Obama has squandered his presidency? REALLY?!?
Bwahahahahahahahahahaha! Yea right.

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» Ad hominey ! Posted by: Bliss Doubt
Feudal tyranny
Posted by: choicelady on Apr 27, 2009 1:15 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
French philosopher Michele Foucault noted that at no point in the history of torture did any tyrant actually give a damn about "truth" - torture is the imposition of regal domination through fear. The use of torture AFTER we had extracted real information is a case in point - it was to send a message to entire populations that the power of America was ubiquitous and awesome. There is not and never has been any other reason for inflicting such fear and damage. I believe it will come out that the US used torture on thousands, all so the word would get out that you, the occupied and targeted populations, were never free, never safe, never able to resist. All you can do is submit to the presence and authority of the US. Truth? When your entire justification for occupation and war are built on lies, there is no worry about truth - you just make it up whether you can get someone to agree to say it or not. Power. Imperial power. That's what torture obtains.

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Osama bin Laden wanted Saddam Hussein killed
Posted by: Garvagh on Apr 27, 2009 3:07 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Great piece! Given that Osama bin Laden wanted Saddam Hussein killed, the corrupt effort to link Iraq to the attacks on the World Trade Center, in order to set up an illegal, elective war, remains one of the greatest intelligence scams of the past 100 years. Much remains to be discovered about this entire sorry episode (which has cost the US trillions of dollars).

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Arguing for torture
Posted by: tchii on Apr 27, 2009 3:20 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As far as I am concerned, those trying to argue for torture are just like those who argued for injecting 15 - 16 month babies with mercury to save a few dollars. These type of people are already insane and cannot be reasoned with so why even argue?
Prosecute those who implemented the plan, or had something to do with the implementation. Put them in jail and get them out of any kind of position of responsibility as they are mentally deranged. We have enough mentally deranged people ruining, I mean running our country now: the Greedy Fat Bastard's club and I wouldn't mind seeing them all get their just comeuppance!

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I'm not fond of "yes, buts", but
Posted by: willymack on Apr 27, 2009 4:26 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Goddammit, folks, we're NEVER going to know the "whole story" until we learn the TRUTH of 911. Is there ANYBODY on this site who isn't a true patriot? If not, you need not read further. The flim-flam surrounding 911 MUST be exposed for what it is, and the appropriate steps taken, whatever they may be. Maybe a case for torture can be made, maybe not. Maybe a conviction will mean life sentences for all those responsible. That'd be a good thing, but NOT ENOUGH, by a long shot. The crime of the century cries out for justice, for the sake of the victims ( ALL of us in the final analysis), and our Democratic Republic.

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Iraq And Vietnam
Posted by: melpol on Apr 27, 2009 4:55 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wars are needed by the industrial military complex just as cows are needed by the dairy industry. It comes as no surprise that “Arab Terrorism” and their threat to America has been magnified by the false confessions of tortured detainees. Trillions of dollars have been spent on unnecessary wars. Just as we admitted our mistake in Vietnam so will we apologize for getting involved in Iraq.

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I hope Eric Holder
Posted by: wormfarmer on Apr 27, 2009 4:56 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
stands by his statement, "No one is above the law", and uses his office to prosecute those responsible for this debacle, (economic, military,former executive), lets get off our collective ass and push for results.

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When
Posted by: peskyfly1 on Apr 27, 2009 5:27 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Are you fucking Americans going to charge all of those (and I mean all) who are directly linked to torturing prisoners? C'mon you motherfuckers...show a little backbone.

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don't forget about the Taguba report... we KNOW who was responsible for Abu Ghraib...
Posted by: realtruther on Apr 27, 2009 6:06 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
READ the original here


13. (U) I find that there is sufficient credible information to warrant an Inquiry UP
Procedure 15, AR 381-10, US Army Intelligence Activities, be conducted to determine the extent of culpability of MI personnel, assigned to the 205th MI Brigade and the Joint Interrogation and Debriefing Center (JIDC) at Abu Ghraib (BCCF).

Specifically, I suspect that COL Thomas M. Pappas, LTC Steve L. Jordan, Mr. Steven Stephanowicz, and Mr. John Israel were either directly or indirectly responsible for the abuses at Abu Ghraib (BCCF) and strongly recommend immediate disciplinary action as described in the preceding paragraphs as well as the initiation of a Procedure 15 Inquiry to determine the full extent of their culpability.

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Self-Blindness among Americans
Posted by: artie on Apr 27, 2009 7:02 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hopefully, as Rich has argued, we will eventually have a truthful account of the torture policy. However, it seems arguably naive to believe that such an account will preclude "war criminals" - as Ramsey Clark amply demonstrates - from ever again assuming presidential or cabinet-level positions in the US. We've had truthful accounts of previous heinous crimes, but they continue to recur.
The problem is not our having or lacking to have such accounts, but rather our lacking the ability to "appropriate" the fact that they are accounts that reflect thought, behaviour, etc., that are born from our society. It reminds me of arguing against another's prejudice against African Americans, only to be told by them that they aren't really prejudice because, eg., they didn't "mind" when African Americans were given the right to vote - the Kuhnian "paradigm" within which such a comment has any sense at all is the very mental constraint that has to be broken down to eliminate the problem. In short, the person to utter such a claim fails to see their own prejudice and, more importantly, fails to see their own ability to understand themselves failing them - to borrow expressions from Stanley Cavel. In this sense, in analogy with the concept of "color blind," such a person suffers from self-blindness.
It seems that only when we realize our self-blindness will there be any possibility of catharsis....

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» RE: Self-Blindness among Americans Posted by: theblackgeorgecarlin
You Missed the Story's first Chapter
Posted by: Pop on Apr 27, 2009 10:11 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The World Trade Center had pretty tight security, at least enough where the alQaeda could not possibly have installed the demolition charges deep in and throughout the several buildings' infrastructure. The book needs to explain the government cover-up of what really happened, and why it was important to award survivers families millions of tax payer money to avoid court actions. There is yet to be told real story that our government and corporate media don't want told. There are literally hundreds of pages needed to explain the full and true story.

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DEMS SEEK TO FORCE USA UNDER UN SHARIA LAW BY SEEKING UN SEAT AND ONE WORLD GOV--PART A
Posted by: SassyFrassy on Apr 28, 2009 11:31 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
DEMS run around waiving their arms that about GITMO AND ABU-GARIB and torture while constantly hiding the fact that the USA confiscated in iraq from a taliban safe-house a torture manual with torture so severe it violates every CONVENTION in existence and that gets swept under the rug along with the fact that...

RIGHT NOW friend and foe here and overseas, want to subject the US MILITARY personnel to indictment and prosecution by the ICC.

GERMANY AND ITALY have actually already indicted US CIA agents for supposedly capturing radical islamic terriorists.

This is an infringement on our SOVEREIGNTY and a dagger aimed at our US MILITARY.

As a result, they may soon want to charge our troops overseas whom are fighting against terriorism, with trumped up "war crime" charges.

Charges like claiming Americans committed genocide, or claim we committed crimes against humanity. There's a leftist group in Paris, plus Argentina, Sweden, whom want to charge Rumsfeld for allegedly authorizing torture at Guantanamo bay, and abu Graib prison in Iraq claiming 1984 convention against torture, which FRANCE has used in previous torture cases.

it's really time to put the UN on notice that the days where the USA would mindlessly supply it with money, men, military equipment and blood without conditions are simply over.

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» Why can't dittoheads spell? Posted by: theblackgeorgecarlin
DEMS SEEK TO FORCE USA UNDER SHARIA LAW BY SEEKING ONE WORLD GOV AND UN SEAT -PART B
Posted by: SassyFrassy on Apr 28, 2009 11:33 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In fact the latest---the new UN SEC GENERAL has already stipulated he wants NYC police officers to serve in UN peacekeeping mission in places like haiti, kosovo, and liberia.

here is one more reason why

CLINTON IN 2000 gave his blessing to the whole globalist thing on the UN "INTERNATIONAL CRIMINAL COURT (ICC). The DEMOCRATS all along want to make US citizens SERVANTS TO THE UN AS OUR GOVERNMENT instead of a country governed by WE THE PEOPLE.

Thankfully Bush saw the serious threat this Socialist star chamber posed to our military and he told them to stuff a sock in it. Apparantly at that time the UN was insulted by it. Although the REPUBLICANS tried twice to negotiate immunity for US peacekeepers thru the Sec Council.

Well, the anti-Americans at the UN wouldn't have any of it and the Abu Graib prison gave Kofi Annan the opening he wanted. The he tried to wrap himself in the human right mantle by claiming it would be unfotunate for someone to press for such an exemption given the prisoner abuse in Iraq.

We all know that if Mr. Amman really cared a thing about human rights he would have protested the revolving membership of certain countries with human rights track records. However, the Sanctimonious UN and Annan are always silent on the topic of human rights; except when it comes to taking cheap shots at the US



What they are really after is for the US to submit to the will of the UN and it's International criminal court. What they want is for the US to relinquish it's SOVEREIGNTY relagating WE THE PEOPLE of the US to the status of servants to the UN INSTEAD of being governed by WE THE PEOPLE

THIS would for example entail that any USA person could be apprehended by local Muslim authorities for an offense, real or imagined slammed into the ICC and flown to the Hage, netherlands where they would rot for months waiting for trial and done ENTIRELY without due process. they would get not trial and no confronting of accusers, No protection from double jeopardy and no unanimous verdict for a conviction.

Take a second to THINK about this all of the globalists within and without the USA think the murderous Al Qaida terriorists should have these rights from way back before the 1990's and NOW... HOWEVER NOT OUR US SOLDIERS and NOT OUR US CITIZENS.

Even though we can't guarantee that no American soldier is ever taken prisoner by a foreighn state and put before the ICC, we at "least" make sure no US soldier and or civilian meets with this fate.

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DEMS SEEK TO FORCE USA UNDER SHARIA LAW BY SEEKING UN SEAT AND ONE WORLD GOV-PART C
Posted by: SassyFrassy on Apr 28, 2009 11:37 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
However, the ICC doesn't want to recognize the CONSTITUTIONAL rights that we as Americans are guaranteed. GET IT?? They too think our constitution is FLAWED.

Meanwhile the globalists Anti-American ICC supporters criticized Mr. Bush claiming we were "undermining international LAW, the reality, THEY were writing new INTERNATIONAL LAWS TO protect themselves.



RIGHT NOW --the GRINCHES at the UN want to create something called a TRANSNATIONAL TREATY where anything protecting our USA PUBLIC that happens in our courts that GOVERNMENT DOESN'T LIKE gets kicked out of court would be sent to THE UN whom will then OVERRIDE THE WILL OF AMERICAN PUBLIC and ENFORCE it's SHARIA LAW rule over this NATION.

Want to know WHAT were the "agreement on the Privileges and immunities of the ICC" ratified with the assent of ONLY 10 NATION--it flat out provides the ICC immunity from "every form of legal process anywhere".

**They stated that the "property, funds, and assets" of the ICC "shall be IMMUNE from search, seizure, requisition, confiscation, expropriation and any other form of interference. And, the ICC and it's assets they said "are to be exempt from all direct taxes" including local taxes and customs.

** Meantime they want to IMPOSE the GLOBAL POVERTY TAX which would most certainly bankrupt the USA; while they engage in the Socialist rhetoric of how we are "selfish" for not wanting to pay more taxes. This is their idea of spread the wealth. Notice the funds are always going someplace else instead of to the PUBLIC.

How many people don't know all throughout history the spread the wealth has always been used in facist/socialist/communist elections.



RIGHT NOW-- OBAMA AND DEMS are attempting to seek a seat at the SHARIA LAW UN and the DEMS want to PUT INTO EFFECT ---TRANSNATIONAL TREATY---what does thaaat mean?? it means anything that the PUBLIC decides in court that is beneficial to WE THE PUBLIC that the GOV doesn't like --it WILL get kicked out of all courts at all levels and be sent TO THE UN international court WHERE they will IMPOSE THE WILL OF SHARIA LAW/UN court on the AMERICAN PUBLIC.

OBAMA AND WASH DC SLUGS WANT TO once again endanger this country by FORCING the US under SERVANTHOOD to the U-NATION which is SHARIA LAW. This will DESTROY our CONSTITUTION and make it IMPOSSIBLE for the USA AMERICAN public to govern themselves. --always the bottom line isn't it??

Long and short of it----the ICC MEMBERS have declared themselves IMMUNE form "personal arrest or detention, Legal process of every kind and immigration restrictions.

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DEMS SEEK TO FORCE USA UNDER SHARIA LAW BY SEEKING UN SEAT AND ONE WORLD GOV-PART D
Posted by: SassyFrassy on Apr 28, 2009 11:40 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oh then then lastly, the "salaries, emoluments and allowances" of the judges prosecutor deputy prosecutor and the registras of the ICC ARE EXEMPT from taxaition.

What hypocrites, it seems to run DEEP in the UN, but it indicates the lengths to which globalists will go to undermine National SOVEREIGNTY.

There's no mistaking it, the ICC SEVERELY undermines our Sovereignty and has over the years placed our troops at great risk.

It CLAIMS complete jurisdiction over every person in the world and it makes no difference to them whether or not that nation has even ratified the treaty.

And, FRANKLY our own constitution may soon be up to the interpretation of 18 foreign -and for the most part hostile-ICC JUDGES.

Long and short of it, the ICC is literally a dagger in the heart of our US SOVEREIGNTY, our freedom and our independence.

DO you want to know what the ACLU thinks about how 'STUPID' they view Americans. Here is what Norman THOMAS one of the Founders of the ACLU says QUOTE Americans will never "knowingly" accept Socialism, but under "liberalism" Americans will accept every fragment; and one day wake up in a Socialist Nation and "wonder" how it all happened.

What we need to investigate is how the DEMOCRATS and ACLU think that they can continue to count on Americans being as stupid as the ACLU thinks Americans are. So they can further their Soc/glob/marx/fac/comm agenda.


RIGHT NOW there's a petition that needs PUBLIC SIGNATURE to protect the USA SOVEREIGNTY see---American Center for Law and Justice

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LeftWright, I read your 14 points of Agreement site
Posted by: dwaln on Apr 28, 2009 2:01 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Again, a few good questions raised about need to know more in some areas. Still it was constructed in a way that made me want to hear a counter view. Have you been to this site:

http://www.debunking911.com/moltensteel.htm

They seemed a little too invested in the fight with your side to be absolutely objective, but I did find their explanations for the molten metal right before the collapse, and the heat in the basement more plausible than a thermite or explosives scenarios.

[Thermite has to be contained and directed to work horizonally, usually by a fragile & brittle ceramic. This would have been even more vulnerable to dislodging than the fireprotection on the steel, from the impact of the jet.]

In years past I have played with smelting iron on a small scale from hematite crystals, made black powder, did a small thermite experiment once,(to make some iron), melted aluminum in various ways including the wood stove in my shop. I also fired a wood fired pottery kiln for 7 years to approx. 2500 degrees F.. Materials have always fascinated me. I still don't see any thing extraordinary about the collapse of those building.

There may be a conspiracy, but so far I don't see a need for one to explain what happened.

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answer: "YES!"
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on Apr 29, 2009 2:38 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
of course you did.

you KNOW you did.

& because skeered little men & women were HAPPY to believe that DOING ANYTHING HORRIBLE to Scary Other People might MAKE THEIR CHILDREN SAFE.

its disgusting that it was promoted... & disgusting everytime I STILL HEAR how much it is the 'knee-jerk' solution to 'if someone were to hurt my child or loved one, I would... "

apparently, the lust for vengeance & a desire to feel more IN CONTROL of one's fears is OFTEN CONFUSED WITH A SENSE OF JUSTICE.





perspective, people.


Perspective.

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WRONG PREMISE
Posted by: reelman on Apr 29, 2009 4:48 PM   
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Bush was a pleaser in overspending and trying to get along with the angry secular socialists now in charge...he was never evil...

oh, you mean evil in the sense he was a pro-life person of faith that protected us for 7 years from the radical cult of allah...

liberals are such dim bulbs...angry unhappy dim bulbs.

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This is a lost cause!
Posted by: maxaron on May 2, 2009 4:31 PM   
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In view of the statements and positions of the Obama administration, more particularly Pres. Obama and the Attorney General, it is perfectly clear that we have a new and more insidious group of justice deniars. Masquerading as reformers for change, we have been sold a bill of goods and the good name of America and its moral high ground has found its place in the toilet. I think it is fair to say that Obama and Company are more interested in injustice and collusion with the torturers than in honoring the oath they have sworn.

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Deb4Peace
Posted by: Deb4Peace on May 3, 2009 3:38 AM   
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Yes, and what kind of timing is that? Hello? Wake Up Out There! The End of America? Also, I have come to a "revelation" not just a support statement, but a revelation that all of us need to (not only superficially) but fully support our favorite whistleblowers. We all need to encourage them and help provide the nutriment, safety and sustenance for them and for the survival of our land. If we do not, then we can expect to become even more dependent on a corrupt government to rule.

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Justice
Posted by: Archie1954 on May 3, 2009 10:31 AM   
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Thank you for this article. It is 100% correct!

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AND THE ELOQUENT SMILING FACE IN THE WHITE HOUSE SAYS PROSECUTE NO ONE NO HOW!
Posted by: DJHV on May 3, 2009 4:20 PM   
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COULD OBAMA BE THE BEST FRIEND THE REPUBLICAN CRIMINALS EVER HAD?

HE PRETENDS THAT THE DECISION TO PROSECUTE THESE VAST AND ENORMOUS CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY BELONGS TO SOMEONE ELSE, ERIC HOLDER. I WONDER WHO HOLDER WORKS FOR?

OBAMA MAY BE THE REPUBLICAN SAVIOR, PROTECTING THEM FROM LEGAL PROSECUTION WHILE AT THE SAME TIME SOME REPUBLICANS WILL DO ANYTHING LEGAL OR ILLEGAL TO SABOTAGE OBAMA.

DOES OBAMA'S ELOQUENCE HIDE A DEEP STUPTIDY?

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