Bill Moyers Talks Drugs, Crime, Journalism and Democracy with Creator of 'The Wire'

By Bill Moyers, Bill Moyers Journal. Posted April 21, 2009.

You know, we now know this because it's in bankruptcy and the books are open. 37 percent profits. All that R&D money that was supposed to go in to make newspapers more essential, more viable, more able to explain the complexities of the world. It went to shareholders in the Tribune Company. Or the L.A. Times Mirror Company before that. And ultimately, when the Internet did hit, they had an inferior product-- that was not essential enough that they could charge online for it.

I mean, the guys who are running newspapers, over the last 20 or 30 years, have to be singular in the manner in which they destroyed their own industry. It-- it's even more profound than Detroit making Chevy Vegas and Pacers and Gremlins and believing that no self-respecting American would buy a Japanese car in 1973. That-- it's analogous up to a point, except it's not analogous in that a Nissan is a pretty good car, and a Toyota is a pretty good car. The Internet, while it's great for commentary and froth doesn't do very much first generation reporting at all. And it can't sustain that. The economic model can't sustain that kind of reporting. And to lose to that, because you didn't-- they had contempt for their own product, these people. I mean, how do-

BILL MOYERS: The publishers. The owners.

DAVID SIMON: Yes, how do you give it away for free? You know, but for 20 years, they looked upon the copy as being the stuff that went around the ads. The ads were the God. And then all of a sudden the ads were not there, and the copy, they had had contempt for. And they had-- they had actually marginalized themselves

By the time the Internet had its way, I mean, they're down to 180 now. You don't cover the City of Baltimore and a region like Central Maryland with 180 people. You don't cover it well.

And the institutional knowledge of the place disappears. And so that was-- I was being a little flippant with "The Guardian" but what I was saying was, you know, there's going to be a wave of corruption until they figure out the new model and reestablish-- the institutional memory of these places, there's going to be a wave of misbehavior.

BILL MOYERS: You know, because the only crime scene I ever covered was the state legislature in Texas. I'm serious about that. And I thought of that, there's a scene in the fourth season of THE WIRE when Tommy Carcetti is running for Mayor. And some hotshot political consultant comes over from the Democratic Party in Washington and gives him the dope on what he has to do to be elected. Watch this.

[...]

TOMMY CARCETTI: Thanks for coming up from Washington.

DEMOCRATIC PARTY OFFICIAL: The Party's happy for the opportunity, you've got some heat behind you at this point. But, down to business.

CARCETTI STAFFER 1: The way we see it, we gotta cobble together a city-wide turnaround, call it the Baltimore miracle.

DEMOCRATIC PARTY OFFICIAL: Which starts with a ten percent drop in crime, since that was your campaign cry. You want the double digits.

CARCETTI STAFFER 2: No doubt. Then he's gotta do a bricks-and-mortar project downtown, put his name on something.

CARCETTI STAFFER 1: But we flush, with stadiums. It's got hotel out of the ass.

DEMOCRATIC PARTY OFFICIAL: You guys got a good convention center?

TOMMY CARCETTI: And a convention center expansion.

CARCETTI STAFFER 2: Gotta put something up, get that sign on it that says, "Brought to you by Tommy Carcetti and the citizens of Baltimore."

DEMOCRATIC PARTY OFFICIAL: Well, think on it. But you don't have too much time to decide.

TOMMY CARCETTI: Anything else?

DEMOCRATIC PARTY OFFICIAL: Education always polls good.

CARCETTI STAFFER 1: No, we gotta stay away from the schools. Our last four administrations left us with an inner city system with inner city problems. We get involved, it becomes our mess. Gotta respect the depths.

DEMOCRATIC PARTY OFFICIAL: One: you get the drop in crime. Two: you build something downtown, and three: you stay away from schools. And four: you keep your boyish good looks. You do all that you might be running for governor in 2008, maybe take back that statehouse for us, hmm?

[...]

BILL MOYERS: Can you get more cynical than that?

DAVID SIMON: Well, we tried. I'm sure we tried at other points. But-

BILL MOYERS: Are you cynical?

DAVID SIMON: I am very cynical about institutions and their willingness to address themselves to reform. For their willingness to do what they're supposed to do in American life. I am not cynical when it comes to individuals and people. And I think the reason THE WIRE is watchable, even tolerable, to viewers is that it has great affection for individuals. It's not misanthropic in any way. It has great affection for those people. Particularly, when they stand upon their hind legs and say, "I will not lie anymore. I am actually going to fight for what I perceive to be some shard of truth."

You know, over time, people are going to look at THE WIRE and think, "This was not quite as cynical as we thought it was. This was actually a little bit more journalistic than that. They were being blunt. But it was less mean than we thought it was." You know? I think in Baltimore, the initial response to seeing some of this on the air was, "These guys are not fair and they're mean. And they're just out to savage us." And it was written with a great-- it's a love letter to Baltimore.

See more stories tagged with: drugs, journalism, crime, police, war on drugs, bill moyers, reporting, the wire, baltimore, arrests, david simon, dope

Bill Moyers is president of the Schumann Center for Media and Democracy.

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