Should I be concerned with prostitution or the drug trade's periphery industries? Then way should I care about an economy that built itself around stealing a decent living from Americans?

I did appreciate the authors subtle "Mexicans are better than drunken, thuggish Somalis" sentiment.


Ex-Employees Sue Meatpacking Company Targeted in Illegal Immigration Raid for Wage Manipulation

Illegal Alien Meat Packing Plant Raids Raise Wages

Unwelcome to America.

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Imagine that the only way you could feed your family was to cross the border of some neighboring country. Given the way things are going, this could easily be the case soon.

Would you cross some countyry's border to feed your family, or would you sit there and allow your family to starve?

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This article is an example of someone who "knows the price of everything and the value of nothing." The community of Potsville cannot return to its old roots because those roots were torn out by the same, large, impersonal agri-business complex that has ruined so many small town in the Midwest.

Calling Mexicans the "economic lifeblood" of Pottsville is short-sighted. It is an example of what the French call Nostalgie de la Boue.

You want to cry about something, don't do if for the Mexicans who come here illegally and know it.

Cry for the nation, for the loss of identity of this nation, and for those on the left and the right who have leveled this great nation to merely an "economy."

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Some other meat packing company--probably a huge corporation--has done well out of this.

Those who are anti-immigrant ought to consider that immigration is what you or your ancestors did to get where you are today.

Only those living in Africa--and to be precise, South Africa--have stayed put.

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If it wasn't for towns like Pottsville more AMERICAN CITIZENS would have jobs that gave a livable wage and greedy corporations treasnous allegiance to the bottomline would be forced to obey the law. Screw the poor immigrants,they don't care if MY family eats or has a roof over their heads.If they were so virtuous they would have the intestinal fortitude to stay and help fix their country instead of hanging Mexican flags all over mine.

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no matter what the principles are of a corporation, rates of pay, quasi-legal deductions etc... here we have a company who went out of business because it couldn't hire people legally allowed to work, say, americans...

this economy is not at the point where americans are willing to take on back breaking work for minimum wage with no benefits... we would rather sit on our butts screaming 'foul, no jobs!!!' and collect some sort of social funding then do this kind of miserable work... how many legal americans were on the 'kill line'???

so, if americans refuse to do it, we stop immigrants willing to do it, them who is going to fill these jobs???

back to coffee...

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The USA was built on slavery. Mexicans or illegals are modern day equivalent, you probabaly need them more than they need you.

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What brought the ICE raid to a head was a union busting effort by the owners of Agriprocessor, the Rubaskin family of Brooklyn, headed by patriarch Rabbi Aaron Rubaskin and CEO and on-site plant manager Rabbi Sholom Rubaskin.

In September 2005 the workers at Agriprocessors voted for to be represented by the United Food and Commercial Workers union.

The kosher packing plant owners' attorneys argued in federal court that the NLRB sanctioned vote was illegal because all Agriprocessor workers voting for union representation were in fact all illegal immigrants!

The Rubaskins lost their final appeal early in '08, the ICE raids followed in May.

Now Agriprocessors is in Chapter 11 bankruptcy and Sholom Rubaskin faces charges on bank fraud and abetting identity theft.

Had the Rubaskins yielded to the wishes of its employees and recognized the legitimacy of the NRLB sanctioned vote, and bargained-in-good-faith with the UFCW, all that followed probably wouldn't have happened.

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The people who ran the Agriprocessors kosher meat-packing plant were disgusting criminals who were exploiting immigrants and others, many of them children working under dangerous conditions for slave wages; take a look at their record:

* frequent citations for illegal practices, including the knowing recruitment of illegal immigrants and inducing them to work in often dangerous conditions at illegal wages.

* In late 2004, People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals released a video filmed undercover at Agriprocessors, showing gory details of cattle having their tracheas and esophagi being ripped out of their necks and surviving for minutes after shechita.[9] Noted animal welfare expert and meat scientist Temple Grandin called Agriprocessors procedures an "atrocious abomination" and worse than anything she had ever seen in over 30 kosher abattoirs.

* Workers alleged that Agriprocessors paid low wages, failed to pay overtime and immediately terminated employment of workers who complained about conditions or wages

* In October 2008, the Iowa Labor Commission fined Agriprocessors $9.99 million for various violations of state labor law, including illegally deducting money from employees for safety equipment and failing to pay employees.

* On August 31, 2006, Agriprocessors signed a consent decree where they essentially admitted discharging untreated slaughtering wastewater into the Postville sewerage system, in violation of Federal and Iowa State law and paid a $600,000 fine for violating waste-water regulations

* Federal authorities arrested hundreds of illegal immigrant workers during the raid. ICE spokesman Tim Counts said that "The raid was aimed at seeking evidence of identity theft, stolen Social Security numbers and for people who are in the country illegally"

* As of October 2008, Agriprocessors owners and managers were charged with 9,311 misdemeanor charges for illegally hiring minors (violating child labor laws) and allowing them to operate dangerous equipment.

* Before the federal raid, Agriprocessors already had a history of sanctions by Iowa’s state regulatory agencies for water pollution, as well as health and safety law violations. Alarming information about working conditions at the Postville plant - including allegations ranging from the use of child labor in prohibited jobs to sexual and physical abuse by supervisors; from the nonpayment of regular and overtime wages to the denial of immediate medical attention for workplace injuries

* Rubashkin was arrested again on November 13, 2008 at his Postville home on Federal charges of bank fraud. These new charges were due to the fact that under his direction millions of dollars that were supposed to be deposited in an account as collateral for a loan were fraudently diverted to another account, and were used to fraudulently increase the value of Agriprocessors accounts receivable. After the money was diverted Rubashkin ordered the records of these transactions removed from company computers. Rubashkin now faces up to 30 years in prison on these new charges.

* In January 2009, an additional 99 federal charges were filed against former CEO Sholom Rubashkin and three former managers for money laundering, making false statements, failing to make required payments for livestock, and 25 additional bank-fraud charges.

- ...THE HELLISHNESS JUST GOES ON AND ON AND ON...

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After the film "A Day Without Mexicans" came out, Mexicans became convinced that they were so necessary to the success, the health, and the welfare of the United States that all of them decided to make a real statement and show just how indispensable they are.

So, they packed up lock stock and barrel and then moved back to Mexico en masse where they planned to wait for Americans to beg them to come back and save the U.S. Of course, they had a little problem crossing the border into Mexico since that country was happy that most of them had left and were busy mooching off the U.S. taxpayers instead of off their fellow Mexicans. However, since most were citizens of Mexico, they did get back in to that country. Once there, they figured it'd be a matter of days before the U.S. would beg them to come back. Maybe a week at most. Then, once the U.S. begged them to come back, the Mexicans figured that they've have tremendous leverage to demand U.S. driver's licenses, cheap college tuition, the right to vote in our elections and more.

Well, it's been about a year now and the U.S. hasn't begged them to come back. And, what horrible things have befallen the U.S. without the Mexicans?

--Average student scores at public schools all across this nation have risen to the pre-Mexican invasion levels we were once used to seeing.

--Public schools class sizes have dropped, and taxpayers don't have to open more schools for Mexicans.

--Violent crime rates have dropped to record lows.

--Automobile traffic has dropped to comfortable levels.

--There is less air pollution as old cars driven by Mexicans are no longer on the roads.

--We have virtually full employment at good wages as businesses compete for workers.

--We can understand the people at the drive-thru windows of fast food restaurants and we get what we ordered.

--Hospital emergency rooms now help save citizen lives again, instead of dispensing free aspirins and stomach medicine to Mexicans who bought food at unclean human powered pushcarts (that's shopping cart, to you).

--The citizen birthrate has started climbing as the collective citizen subconscious sends signals that we're no longer overcrowded and that we need more people.

--Median incomes have risen.

--The California state budget is balanced and on time.

--Insurance costs have gone down.

---Social service offices have closed.

--Graffiti is gone.

--Neighborhoods aren't overcrowded.

--Police departments have laid off police officers.

--Jails are closing.

--The U.S. has beaten Denmark as the best place in the world in which to live.

--Freeway accidents are at an all time low.

--Drive by shootings have stopped.

--There are no loitering day workers in the cities.

--Citizen kids can now get jobs at fast food restaurants.

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--Obesity levels drop as citizens mow their own lawns, paint their own homes and work on their own cars.

--Gang problems are rare.

--President Bush has started pandering to blacks again.

--Government printing costs have gone down since all documents can be printed just in English.

--Human powered push carts selling unclean food are gone from our streets.

--The number of pedestrians hit by cars has fallen.

--The number of drunk driving related automobile accidents has fallen.

--The teen pregnancy rate has fallen.

--Boom box manufacturers have gone out of business.

--Supermarkets have stopped having their shopping carts stolen.

--Third World diseases such as TB are now gone from the U.S.

--Charity bosses who made small fortunes off illegal aliens have to find real jobs.

--The neurotic Great White Mothers and Great White Fathers are now traveling to the Third World to try to put meaning into their meaningless lives instead of mothering and fathering the Third World here in the U.S.

Keep waiting amigos and amigas, America is sure to call you any year now. Oh, it's probably not a good idea to hold your breath.

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Illegal Workers, are the equilvant to Slavery; they are, excuse the expression, the new Niggar on the Slave Market Block!

ANYWAY, many White Americans who can steal a buck, they will do it, at the cost of the American People.

It's another important reason WHY our children GROW UP without WORK ETHICS; some of these jobs, TEENAGER'S could be doing, to earn money, to help their parent's out at home, instead of being a long term DEPENDENT child! I know when I was coming up as a child, its what my brothers did as young teenage men, and we got FREE fruits and Veggies from their work, along with they helping out financially, with the household expenses! IT TAUGHT THEM RESPONSIBILITY, HOW TO APPRECIATE MONEY, that many children are LACKING today!

Many Americans have SPOILED their children so ROTTEN, that most believe these kinds of jobs are BENEATH them, yet parents are in great DEBT trying to keep up with the Jone's, or whatever new GADGET that hits the market, and most children haven't did a darn thing to earn it!

Americans are facing some very hard knocks, #1 for spoiling their children without teaching them the ETHICS of how material things are gained; #2, now they cannot spoil them any longer, feeling guilty because they can't; heck, most of them have lost their jobs, and soon to be homeless ... NOW WHERE ARE THEY GOING to store all those GADGETS and STUFF?

It's quite sad, this Economic Meltdown had to happen for Americans to RETHINK their "Stinking Thinking," but in the long run, it will be the a lesson well learned.

Perhaps, they will THNK about sending their teenage children to farms to pick fruits and veggies; if nothing else, it will motivate them to STAY in SCHOOL, get a good education, because most of us don't want these kinds of jobs as our way of living; but its a job many teenager's can do, on their way to adulthood.

Fact is, there are MANY Americans, WILLING and READY to do Odd jobs, but are disadvantage because our CONTROLLING White Society would RATHER hire ILLEGALS to do these jobs, for LESS THAN LIVABLE WAGES!

As long a Rich White Society CONTROL our media, our foods; heck they control just about EVERYTHING we do, they will continue to ROB good parents, of good parenting; CONDITIONING most households, that what they see in the Media, is HOW they should live and be like!

Sorry, I do NOT want my children growing up, and acting like a Britney Spears, or a Paris Hilton, or these male entertainer's treating women and young girls like whores!

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This joint made "kosher" food. The conditions were unsanitary. The place was closed down because of the cheap owners who tried to make a fast buck on unsanitary kosher food. Though the owners wore the black hats, fringes and other religious garb of Orthodox Jews, they proved themselves cheap gangsters who would swindle their own people. I'm sure they regarded the Mexicans as less than human. why didn't these "holy" people who believe the Land of Israel belongs to them alone recruit Americans, especially high unemployment groups like blacks?

As usual, Alternet does superficial reporting in the interest of spouting predetermined ideology. Here creepy thieving religious zionists are hugged.

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For all the people who think Americans wouldn't do these jobs, think again. They did them for decades. Meat packing is a filthy, hard job but it used to pay well. People did it for good wages. Then Saint Ronnie showed Union Busting was the cool thing to do and the meatpackers jumped on. Postville brought this problem on themselves. Pay decent, living wages and you get good workers. They deserved to be raided and shut down. If they couldn't hire legally, they should be closed. Period.

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polluting at a textile plant. These Rabbis and their crooked family members were the worst sort of business owners whose profits were made on the backs of the workers and the health of the communities they operated in! They also donated piles of money to Republicans.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/951857.html

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I can find no sympathy for Pottsville’s economic dilemma nor position.

The agri-business knew when it hired illegal immigrants that they were committing a crime when those persons were hired. The illegal immigrants, (regardless of their country of origin), knew when they came here they risked arrest and deportation. Illegal immigrants who have illegally been resident of this country for years and years, obviously had the chance to become United States citizens – but elected not to take the necessary legal steps to acquire that citizenship. I have no sympathy for them, nor those who hire them.

The situation in Pottsville is very closely akin to the fundamental causes of economic collapse by the investment banking and credit industries: They caused the problem, and now are screaming about how mistreated they are.

I resent the author of this article commenting about and comparing the immigrants of our forefathers to the current batch of illegal immigrants. Why? Because our forefathers wanted to BECOME citizens of the United States while the illegal immigrants of today, only want to establish their original country’s culture, ethics and existence in OUR country. They have no intention of becoming United States citizens.

I further resent the statement (paraphrased here) about those illegal immigrants’ only way to feed their families is to create the illegal act of invading a foreign country (ours) to attain work. The truth is: If they want a job, if they want a different life style, they should consider changing the laws in their own country of origin, instead of trying to illegally attempt to “homestead” a spearhead for the extension of their country within ours.

The current existing immigration laws of the United States of America are valid. They have stood the test of time in their implementation and application. We do NOT need immigration reform, we need the current laws to be enforced. If ICE does not have enough lawyers, if they do not have enough facilities, if they do not have enough equipment, then the Director of ICE should request additional funds from Congress.

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If agribusiness were willing to pay a living wage and allow workers the dignity of a union, there would be enough workers to operate these plants. The work is taxing and brutal, but it can be made safe and cleaner. Let's not forget that the operators of this plant were immigrants, too, from countries in eastern Europe where democracy is a weak tradition.

It's up to the US government to tell businesses what we expect of them, and that has been sorely lacking for almost thirty years now. The same government that swoops down on immigrants turns a blind eye to the safety of our food supply and to workers' rights.

And maybe it's time to consider the true cost of our excessive meat-eating.

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Wow. It's weird how on this one subject only, AlterNet and Mother Jones readers are expected to cry for business, even the most exploitive of union-busting big businesses including WalMart! Boo hoo.

As a poster notes above, the Rubaskins rightfully were arrested for their criminal activity in Postville. The case made a tremendous amount of news. Do AlterNet and Mother Jones really think none of us have heard the facts? Maybe AlterNet considers the Rubaskins philanthropists now because they employed so many "undocumented workers" out of the goodness of their hearts.

AlterNet runs articles all the time about how bad the factory meat industry is - for the environment and for health - and how dangerous it is for workers. But apparently we are supposed to eat more unhealthy meat now simply because it will help more undocumented Mexicans stay here.

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We wouldn't have been in this situation if your lot did not regard labor as beneath you.

Isn't this the real reason why this country was developed on the sweat and labor of slavery? It was beneath you to toil in the hot sun picking cotton or tobacco, and you regarded these jobs as so low that only an animal, like blacks, should do.

Isn't that why you imported Chinese workers because you regarded putting up rails and breaking rocks as way beneath you?

Isn't that why you imported Mexicans, on several occasions (Bracero program), because you didn't want to do stoop labor and dig ditches?

Yes, it is isn't it? For a time, and perhaps it is still this way now, you regard yourselves as too racially superior because agricultural labor and other similar jobs are too physically suitable for inferiors, like illegals?

Yes, history repeats itself, these attitudes are as pervasive today as they were since the late 1800's.

So what you say, there is a job opening down by the meat plant. Want a job?

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No americna Child Dreams or aspires to become a Field hand, or a hotel housekeeper. We'll do the jobs- but only once our hopes have been dashed by economic and educational restraint- the lack of true Access to a totally FREE market.
It is not the fault of an applicate that they were chosen over another- it's the sole respsonbility of those who do the Hiring. So 'Mexicans' are not stealing our Jobs- they are being given away.
And the reasons aren't just to padded the bottom line- It's done to keep US American Workers in Line. They use this Shadow labor force as a Threat should we demand the Rights afforded by our Labor laws.Lockeheeds CEO confessed to Congress and Every American Worker their Strong arm tactics "I can hire 9 Mexicans for the price of 1 American".Funny I don't remember him clarifying if that was in Mexico or Here. But even more insightful was the fact that the Mexican Economy Sucks- so apparently Mr. Lockheed would like Our Workers wages, thus our Economy to mirror Mexico's.The fact is the reason we have such a robust economy, which also supports other countries around the world is the fact Our Workers have a higher % of disposable income- DUH!Not to mention Our workers are also Our consumers and Our taxpayors- Amazing We are One in the Same!!
What is even more egregious is the fact that this labor force is intentionally kept in the shadows so that these cheap ass UnAmerican Co's can exploit the shit out of them just like the plantation owners of days gone by. Their wages suck, their hours are horrendous, their living conditions are beyond substandard and their safety is often in peril. This situation is a human atrocity. I know I've worked in the Horse industry- so I've seen it First hand. This is ntohing less than Slave labor- Something We abolished and Outlawed over 150 yrs ago...thus it constitutes a Treasonous act. The africans who were dragged over here were not considered 'citizens' either- so the arguement that Illegals do not deserve the protections of our laws is a bold face lie. If we consider ourselves the 'Beacon' for humanity, If we adhere to the pledge engraved on our Lady Liberty...anyone who lands on our shore is guaranteed the Dignities afforded our citizenry- Human 'Inalienable Rights'- The same considerations our Immigranting ancestors were granted. Don't call yourself an American Patriot if that undeniable logic escapes You.

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Let's step back a few decades to see what the meatpacking industry has really been up to: In the late 19th & early 20th centuries the meatpacking industry was largely based in Chicago & Kansas City. These plants were eventually unionized and meatpacking was a highly qualified and well paid vocation. Enter union busting and a major decline in the standards of operation of the meat packing industry. First, they moved the plants out of Chicago & Kansas City to smaller towns in the Midwest and tried to hire non-union workers to replace the skilled and well paid union workers they employed before. And later they relied in undocumented workers. The rash of e-coli outbreaks and other grotesque scandals in the meat industry went hand in hand with the hiring of low paid and often illegal workers. On the job injuries skyrocketed and the illegal workers were often fired if they got injured. They rarely reported this abuse as they were afraid they might be deported. The fast food industry had much to do with this decline in wages & quality as they insisted in a uniform, cheap product. I have compassion for the undocumented workers but the reality is that they are nothing but pawns in this union-busting, wage lowering scheme of the meat packing industry.

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A nation without borders is not a nation.

Everyone in this post we might not agree politically but if we needed a job and this meat packing plant was hiring, i got the 1st round of beers after our 3rd shift.

This is another so called job that Americans wont do... yea maybe on the lower west side of Manhattan however in flyover country, its a honest day work for an honest day pay for Americans right? Myself I am Mr Low Skilled Labor and all I ask is for the rules to be followed. Its sad when we have (R)'s whom want the cheep labor and (D)'s whom want the cheep votes. I'm not a zenafobe however by other G-20 nations standards, "Illegal Immigration" enforcement is fairly laxed in Big Bad America. Before you start playing the violin for these Illegals think of all the Americans whom could work at these places... it might just be you.

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"this economy is not at the point where americans are willing to take on back breaking work for minimum wage with no benefits... we would rather sit on our butts screaming 'foul, no jobs!!!' and collect some sort of social funding then do this kind of miserable work... how many legal americans were on the 'kill line'???"

When I was in High School in the late 1970s - early 1980s my best friend's aunt, a born and bred citizen of the USA worked on the "kill line" of a local meatpacking plant. It was brutal work but she was well paid and there were benefits and she could support herself and her children through honest labor at an honest wage. Then the influx of illegal label by criminal-minded corporations flooded the industry and wages fell to about a third of what they were in the '70s-80s and benefits went away. There are plenty of Americans who are willing to do this work but American demand fairness. I myself worked as a janitor at a major university while my spouse was in school and let me tell you..scrubbing shat off of four sides of a restroom stall after some freshman has worked out their Freudian problems was no fun but I did it to support myself and my family just like my mother worked third shift in factories until she died from expoosure to cancer causing industrial chemicals at the age of 58 so don't give me any of this "jobs Americans won't do" crapoloa.

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This story, copied from the tried and true template of liberal bleeding heart sentimentality, recalls an observation made by the late Garrett Hardin.

"Apparently it is easier for the media to photograph scenes that suggest the suffering of new immigrants than it is to prove, photographically, that widely dispersed job losses have a common cause."

The macroeconomic truth is that this wave of illegal immigration has depressed the wages and displaced the jobs of American workers. That is irrefutable. Tim M.

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labor and in all liklihood the Mexicans would be granted deed back to the five states that were stolen from them. This USofA would shut down before a year was up without Mexicans slaving away here.

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I feel for those who have to leave their homeland and families to risk everything to eke out a living, including illegally crossing our border. If I were in their shoes (if I had shoes) and as desperate, I might do the same thing. Any of us might.

But.

Are we a nation of laws or are we not? We have laws for reasons, and we have laws against illegal immigration for reasons as well, one very important one being the Lifeboat Scenario: overload a lifeboat and everyone drowns.

We're not drowning – yet – but anti-illegal immigration laws are supposed to work to maintain a balance between the number of people coming in and our economy's ability to absorb them comfortably. The flood of illegals upsets this balance and leads to abuses such as at Agriprocessors, as well as driving wages down across the board due to the undermining of the supply/demand balance for labor and the change in how labor is valued. (Of course, also undermining this balance is the outsourcing of jobs to cheaper labor markets overseas – but that's another story too long to go into here ...)

And, the fact is, many LEGAL immigrants are as upset by the flood of illegals as are the rest of us, because they stand to be hurt the most by the influx of illegal (and often exploited) labor. It also makes a mockery of what they had to go through to become legal citizens (I know someone who teaches English as a Second Language to those seeking citizenship; by the time they achieve it, they often know more about our history and government than our own high school graduates!)

(Oh, and by the way: American's, born here or legal immigrant, WILL do those jobs conservatives claim we won't – we just won't do them for slave wages and under deadly working conditions. America has laws against those things, too.)

If the people of Postville need to be angry at someone, or someones, they should be angry at the Rubaskins. They were the ones who cut corners, broke DOZENS of laws, and exploited the poor souls who were just trying to survive. ICE had no choice but to do what they did. It's the law.

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...what's progressive about flooding the country with cheap labor and undercutting the already precarious position of the U.S. working class? I thought we as progressives were *all about* the workers! Are you aware that Cesar Chavez' UFW actually patrolled the border to prevent the illegals from entering because they endangered the position of legitimately documented workers? Was *he* a reactionary racist?

Oh, I know. You're going to say it's a "complicated problem." Sure it is, for a government that doesn't care enough about its own people to enforce the law. Otherwise, it's quite simple. *Enforce the freaking law.* BTW, in New York a substantial number of illegals are *Irish.*

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This scum that has come across our borders has insisted on bringing their corrupt, failed culture with them and demand to keep it alive in our country. They rape, murder, steal, and have brought a plague of crime to the Southwest U.S. that we will only get rid of by totally eliminating the source. Just two days ago we had another murder in my neighborhood, a 13 year old girl raped and strangled in her own bed by this scum from south of the border.

Close the border, deport every illegal cockroach that can be dug out of their hiding place, and set up armed military posts from Texas to California with orders to "kill on sight" anyone attempting to enter the country illegally. If you feel the sick "liberal mindset" to support the depravity that their culture stands for, go with them and maybe you can help them change their own society into something fit for human beings to live in. Otherwise, get ready to have the laws and our politicians in our country dominated by a plague of the worst excuse for human beings that this world has seen since WWII.

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NO, this country was not built on slavery, no it wasn't, no it wasn't. You're WRONG WRONG WRONG. My ancestors were all here in the 1600's; they were Quakers who were persecuted in England; they came here for religious freedom, and they did not believe in war, they did not believe in slaves. Quakers were anti-war, anti-slave. Some of you ignorant people need to learn about ALL the history of this country, the real history, not just those books, or paragraphs you selectively pull out to boast your sick sick opinions.

Also...stop gossiping about my ancestors, stop telling lies about them. It's my ancestors you're lying about and I think Alternet needs to DELETE your posts which LIE about my family.

My ancestor's broke their butts building this country since 1620 and none of us ever ever had slaves. Most families didn't. They worked out in the fields on their own property along side workers who needed the job and money.

For the love of God, most or many of you also have ancestors which came to the colonies in the 1600s don't you? You're ancestor's didn't
just spring up in 2009 from nowhere. Yes I know, some of you just got here in the last generation etc. etc blah blah.

But for most posters, that's most, hey don't you even KNOW where your people came from?? Ever hear of genealogy? And I don't mean JUST your mother and father and grandparents. Until you do genealogy research all the way back, you have no right to criticize other peoples ancestor's and tell lies about them.

Everybody, I mean everybody, had family walking around in the year 1400, in the year 1620 or 1740, since you didn't evolve from a tree stump. You've just been too lazy to research your family. You need to go to Ancestry dot com, and get busy. They not only have US, they also have all other countries. Get moving.

Think your people are not there? Yes they are. You are WRONG, your family IS there. Instead of mouthing off here,
get busy and research your ancestors and the history of this country.

My people set foot on the eastern shore of what is now the US and there was NOTHING here in 1620. No jobs, no food, no nothing. That's the ones who lived and didn't die on the ship en route. They built this country so you could come here and whine whine whine.
As far as other countries creating a place which sucks and people run away from, for the love of God, it's not the job of trhe US to educate and give jobs to their people who flee.

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It's not just the Mexicans coming here illegally I hate, its the crap they bring with them. They take jobs from Americans, and they're ruining Texas. Ever hear of Texas? They are ruining Texas and have been for the last 40 years. Bringing a stupid form of Catholism and other crud.

If you live in a state up north, you have NO idea what you're in store for when the Mexicans illegals slowly take over your city also. And they will. They will. Don't say I didn't warn you. Then your grand-daughter will marry the son of one. Come back and post then.

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It just isn't. It is unfair EXPLOITATION. It is wrong. Why are you proposing that we do so???

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Postville asked for this. When are we going to stop feeling sorry for and mollycoddling big business owners who aren't willing to pay a fair wage and keep conditions up to par?

So the factory owners started hiring illegal immigrants, and Postville big shots looked the other way. Because they didn't want to obey the law. Period.

It was cheaper and easier to hire illegals, who would be less likely to unionize, unable to complain about bad working conditions. Great perk for crooked landlords, too, who would pocket tons of money and be able to rent out apartments that perhaps didn't have running water, heat, electricity, etc.

Then the backlash came. All of the illegal workers, gone in one fell swoop. This would never have happened if the company had paid a fair wage and kept the working conditions at acceptable legal levels. They did not.

They ended up sowing what they reaped, and they took the entire town down with them. Pretty? Nope. Foreseeable? Yes. They gambled with lives, exploited people (illegal, legal...it's still exploitation) and made tons of money that they pocketed for being greedy. How much less would they have made if they'd hired Americans and kept up the working conditions? Maybe they wouldn't have been rolling in dough as much, but now they wouldn't be facing the problems they are today.

Employers who exploit workers should be punished, severely. Their first obligation is to Americans, to hire people at a fair wage and to keep the working conditions safe. Doing just the opposite is what got them into this mess. Postville gambled on this being a good move, and they lost.

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Marcello Ballve--and Alternet also--you don't know CRAP about the midwest!!

I live in rural Northeast Nebraska, where I am a lifetime resident (54 years). PLEASE spare me the old saw about illegal gate-crashers being "good" for the economy out here.

We have a lot of meat packing plants out here (Burt County in my state is one of the largest meat producing areas of the U.S.). Back in the 1960's and 1970's, the meat packing plants (Swift, Spencer Packing, Hormel) were sources of good middle-class jobs out here. And I am talking about in the areas of the state away from the major metropolis of Omaha. They paid a starting wage of $8/hour (which is like $25/hour today). They had a strong union and some of the best health and safety benefits around. Farmers and others in the little towns made a career of working there. Many with 20 years or more at the same place. Fathers brought in sons and daughters to give them a start in the company. I had a brother and two uncles that had careers there. It was also a great place for young college men to earn some very good $$$ during the summer months. Yes...it was still dirty and sometimes hard work, but that didn't bother the farm kids who were used to such things. The packing plants had no trouble hiring people and it was hard to get into one unless you knew somebody. People working at these plants had a good solid middle class income without going to college.

Fast forward to the present day: now the workforce is 90% foriegn, wages start at $7/hour, the line has been boosted from 60 animals/hour to 200. The union is history. The packing plants are notorious hell holes to work in. Little towns are swamped with crime. Recently the local hospital had to deal with a Sudanese immigrant (who turned out to be illegal btw) who had leprosy. Local Andy Griffith sherriffs have to deal with Mexican drug gangs that make the Bloods and the Crips look like a bunch of Boy Scouts.

And the same thing that happened to meat packing industry out here goes for the other things that people used to make a decent living on: construction, housing, and things such as lawn care.

So--PLEASE!--don't tell me that hordes of illegal gate-crashers filled with third-world desperation have been good for us out here.

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My wife is Hispanic, which makes my kids, at the least, half Hispanic. I am a construction worker. I can not compete against an illegal worker who will take 100 dollars a day in cash. I can't do that. The illegals will live in a home with 35 others stacked on top of each other. I have to travel to work, so I understand their plight. I am working under legal constraints that the "undocumented" worker does not have to comply with. My employer has to pay all the taxes that come with hiring me. The contractor who hires illegals does not follow the the same rules, making the legitimate contractor uncompetitive and then I loose my job and he looses his business. The other half of the problem is the extreme on both sides of the political spectrum, the chamber of commerce morons and the bleeding heart liberals. I am more likely to sympathize with the bleeding heart since their desire is to help someone at no or little personal gain. The Chamber of Commerce is just trying to drive down the wages that are paid to qualified workers so they and their ilk can earn more on the bottom line. My bottom line is my kids, please don't challenge me on that or you will meet one of my ancestral Norwegian ancestors.
Any fool who wants to say a person, who is here in stark contrast to the legal system, deserves a job more that me, then send me some fricking money so I can feed, house, educate and put clothes on my three kids. Now that that has been said the real problem is the person who hires the illegal alien. The only solution is to seize the entire net worth of the illegal contractor, this being a play from the republican’s ill thought out war on drugs, zero tolerance. My only concession on the confiscation of property would be the children and the sins of the father should not be visited on the children.

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Any doubts I may have had about whether Alternet (and Mother Jones, for that matter) falls into the "left-leaning legitimate news and information" category of site vs. the "politically-fueled propoganda and bullshit" sort of site is officially gone.

I've always considered their editors to be on the wrong side of the immigration debate but this simply goes beyond the pale. This article presents a spin on reality that is so far-fetched it is insulting to me as a reader. In this author's world its a tragedy to see an exploitative system that is hardly any better than slavery get shut down. Would we get a similar sob story if, by some miracle, the cops shut down all the meth labs in the Midwest and all of the drug money was no longer flowing back into the communities? Why don't we have any articles on Alternet exploring what life might be like for Americans if we kept our border secure and everyone that worked in this country demanded good compensation, good working conditions and good labor laws?

Outlets like Alternet and Mother Jones try to frame the immigration debate in such a way as to make people believe that supporting illegal immigrants is a necessary precursor to embracing multiculturalism and tolerance. It is complete bullshit and thankfully most people know it. I'm not a racist for wanting to send millions of people, most of whom happen to be Mexican, back to wherever it is they came from until they can find legal means to enter this country.

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The only reason companies of any ilk employ people from other parts of the world is because they can count on productivity. If Americans would get off they union high horses and buckle down and work instead of crying the blues that "illegals" are taking their jobs America would again be "top dog". Between sending work to India and Malasia, and bringing in illegal workers you can blame the lazyness of Americans who think they are to good to do grunt work, yet cry like babies when they can't get a job. BOO HOO

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"high unemployment as blacks" wow!
I am a black person who thinks that there is a bit of bigotry blood running through your veins. Anyway, I suspect that the reason they do not employ blacks is because they will demand their rights like forming a union if they so wish. They will also go to court if their wages are stolen from them. The reason why employers love illegal immigrants is because illegals cannot dare to enforce their rights.

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See the boarded up factories,there are your jobs! You milk the employers dry with union demands and they close down and go to the people who are not fussy about bad working conditions who at least take home the bacon.Or the employers send their work orders overseas and bring back the finished goods to sell in Wal-Mart.

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I am a leftist Progressive. I believe a country benefits from immigration and new blood BUT...what the hell is the matter with these damn Liberals who cannot see what illegal migration does to American jobs and communities. This is the kind of stuff that gives the neo-cons all the ammo they need against the "liberal" left. Throw every employer that hires them in jail - dry up the work and they can all go home and start a revolution in Mexico to change their own country for the better. Illegals equal cheap labor and nothing else!

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Seems like we liberals find ourselves in a similar situation to the one that prevailed within the GOP just prior to the Civil War regarding slavery.

Progressives were allied with industrialists in their opposition to slavery, but for two very different reasons. Obviously, progressives saw slavery as a crime and immoral. Industrialists in the north saw slaves as cheap labor that could further depress wages if only made available to compete with European immigrants.

Same situation now...On the one hand, these undocumented workers are essentially modern slaves. It's an immoral and illegal system that keeps them in poverty and without legal protections. On the other hand, this is industry's wet dream and it's the American worker's (and ALL worker's) worst nightmare. Factories such as the one cited in this article only go bankrupt when undocumented workers are not available because their entire business model is based on not paying a decent wage. Just as strong unions led to higher wages even for non-union workers, these underpaid workers lead to lower pay for all American workers.

So, I'm not sorry to see these people gone. I'd like to see ALL undocumented workers sent home, their jobs filled by Americans, and watch wages go up across the board: Not just in the US but across the border.

I know the argument that Americans won't do this work. That's bullshit. People in this country are resorting to prostitution, fraud, theft, etc., just to get by. I don't believe someone will suck a stranger's dick, risk jail, or disease, or physical harm before they take a factory job. If wages are fair, people will do the work. The point is that wages are not fair now, and Americans will not do the work now, because making $2.50/hour ain't going to cut it.

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We humans are really civilized. If it moves, kill it and eat it. I haven't eaten a critter in over 30 years. 60 years old and in perfect health. I get out of bed and feel no different than when I was 10, no aches, pains or anything. Because I don't eat critters (anything that walks, flys, crawls or swims). Haven't been to a fast food (garbage) place for over 36 years. Hate wal-mart and all the other big slave pits. Don't go all sky daddy on me with your little book of fairy tales.

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Not only should all these illegals be deported immediately, the company needs much more than a slap on the hand. It's time to get tough on these employers, show them the American People mean business.

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The irony of pregressivism is, if big bizness respected unions, paid a living wage and followed OSHA rules and regs, there would be zero jobs for illegals to take from natives. They'd have to all go home.

You can fully respect and feel empathy for folks who are desperate for work and money without supporting the economic situtation required for their import. You can do this, but most wrtiers on this site seem incapable of understanding the dichotomy. What would help all American workers would hurt the lowest strata.

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I'm a big liberal in every way except immigration. If it were up to me, we would take draconian measures against illegal immigration, starting with very heavy fines on employers.

I've never understood the logic that we have to increase poverty in this country, in order to have economic growth. Isn't that self-contradictory? I would like us to wipe out poverty in this country, instead of importing more poverty from Mexico. It seems that many of you agree with me.

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...the ghost of Chief Sitting Bull said, "Sounds good to me. When do we start shipping all you white people back to Europe?"

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"free" trade, US involvement in rigging the elections for Fox and Calderon who were the biggest supporters on immigrant dumping, and internal economic libertarian policies such as privatization, deregulation, offshoring, etc ... I can understand why most on this thread are pissed off with the immigrants but if only they knew the whole picture, they would learn it all.

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Can hardly wait for the day when the major problem Mexico faces is how to deal with flood of US wetbacks struggling to get into the country.
A salutary lesson long overdue, methinks!

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has so easily trickled down from the monied elites to pretty much the working class. The fact of the matter is that as much as we all love to shout at the immigrants, illegal or otherwise, when we least expect it most of us tend to go suddenly desperate and pick the cheapest labor. Unfortunately, in this economic climate that we've been witnessing this past decade alone, this desperation is growing leaps and bounds. Perhaps we could all, myself included, learn the gentle art of getting those jobs that get given to illegal labor without fear. Of course, we would also want to fight for better wages and benefits and stop allowing the myth that increasing wages and giving benefits hurts businesses. And has been said earlier and JenniferBedingfield beat me to it, it's high time the US quit meddling in Mexico's election and let the country go left leaning for a change. We're going to have to defeat the exploitation system from the ground on up. Immigrants are only the symptom, not the problem. A real doctor treats the problem and not just the symptom.

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The only reason the America economy has grown at a substantial pace in the last 10-20 years is that the U.S. Federal government, in what can only be called conspiratorial collusion with big-business interests, has let in tens of millions of immigrants during that time (millions per year from all over the world), not to mention virtually let tens of millions of other illegal immigrants from south of our border just prance on in here like they own this country.

Apparently we, the White/European population of America, the Whites who are so often more conscientious than other groups because we tend to care more about issues like preserving nature, farmland, forests, freshwater, halting climate change...we Whites who like and in fact need more living space than other groups...we Whites apparently do not breed fast enough for the pig-greedy American hypercapitalists in NYC/LA/CHI (along with other big cities) to keep their bank accounts fat enough. No, you see - it'll NEVER be enough for them.

So if you think America is becoming just a bit too overpopulated now, just you wait: all of these immigrants, with their third-world/Bangladesh-esque birthrates that often stick with them well in to the 2nd-3rd generations and even more, will eventually DOUBLE America's current population, pushing it well over HALF A BILLION within in the next few decades.

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If you're from Cuba, you get blanket "legal" status regardless. Just check out the mess in Florida if you think I'm lying but I'm pretty sure that even the most blowjob rightwingers living in Florida will be unable to deny it either even if they invent the "Castro" excuse. However, if you're from Haiti, they deport you unless they have a slave labor job that awaits you and then you're tortured to near death. And Mexicans? Not a whole lot different either. Remember that in 2000, the Elian Gonzolas custody battled erupted. If Elian were Mexican or Haitian, he would have been deported but being Cuban, his dad had to fight tooth and nail to keep him from his rightwing relatives ! Janet Reno did the right thing here and this was probably the reason she narrow lost the FL Democratic gubenatorial primary in 2002 to Bill Mcbride who lost to Jeb in the general election.

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Even though this article earnestly attempts to show how valuable these "Mexicans" are (even though the author includes mention of Guatemalans as well), it misses two huge points:

1. According to this view, only white Midwesterners can form community bonds, and they do this on the backs of laborers. Where is the story that people of other countries can come to a new place and form not only internal communities of their own but also intermingle with other populations there, and indeed contribute and become integral to the larger community of the town?

2. Present is the assumption that United States immigration policy and economic situation are the only determining factors of international migration. Is any consideration given to the fact that Mexico is a sovereign state that has its own economy and political policy, not to mention changing demographics that point to declining birth rates and fluctuations in immigration patterns, and that the country is not wholly reliant on its northern neighbor? What hubris.

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That the author sees the suffering of the undocumented workers and the towns in which they lived, and is completely oblivious to the suffering of the animals off of which they made a living. Why should I care about an economy based on the suffering of other living beings? I'm perfectly happy to see slaughterhouses and everybody whose living is derived from such filthy activity put out of business. Just as any decent person today is angered by the thought of slavery of other humans, the day will come when slavery of any sentient life will be remembered with disgust and shame.

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I find it both disturbing and typical. Here we have a dilema which no one in government is willing to address. If the only people filling the jobs are illegals then that speaks volumes about the people already living in the town. They won't work for those wages. They would rather be executives not get their hands dirty. Can you blame folks for wanting to cross the border to find work at higher wages? Why are we arresting the workers, why not the employers? They are the ones turning their backs on the workers. I have no pity for them. If the town wants to keep the plant going, then work with the State Department to make sure that these folks get documented and apply for citizenship. Background invesitigation can take up to 1-2 years but it can be done and in the mean time they can be putting on citizenship classes that the company can help fund...... and those other citizens of Portsville might want to start working if they don't have jobs. A paycheck or even 2 is better than unemployment.

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with a definite lack of fresh vegetables.

the vegetarians are about to find their food gets MUCH more expensive unless ...

The US BALKANIZES Latin America with more union-busting & 'Free Trade Agreements'... just a bit more militarized DRUG WAR efforts & some Merida Initiative financing...

wow. suddenly there's LOTS OF DOMESTIC EMPTY FARMS for AgriBiz to start up some very large operations... too bad about that banking problem that killed off LENDING to private individuals...

nope, the money & dividends come when NOBODY is a private farm, but a PUBLICLY TRADED Farm... with lots of MONSANTO GMO!
then everybody INVESTS & gets SHARES...

& its CORPORATIZED SOCIALISM... you know, FASCISM, where everybody is dependent upon putting their thumbs on everybody else...

just in time for a lot of un-employed Americans to show up desperate for ANY kind of work.

yeah...

that's "the American Way"





perspective, people.


Perspective.

The Jeff Farias Show: streams FREE & LIVE Mon-Fri, 6-9pmEST

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GREED. BLOWBACK. Two words that explain much of of problem. The Bush people invaded Haiti around 2002 because the Haitian president wanted to raise wages by $1 per hour. The USA has invaded and overthrown progressive Latin American governments many many times. Allende in Chile, Aristide in Haiti, to name only two. Also, Ronnie Rayguns illegal wars in Central America, and his pro-life Death Squads has resulted in many displaced people migrating THROUGH Mexico into the USA. These people cannot better themselves in their own countries because the USA black-ops and CIA ops will kill anybody who tries to raised wages there, which might eat into the profits of USA-owned corporations.

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Oh, boy. I can tell the immigrants have not really done their homework. Funny, that those with a deep history in this country can and do see the hard work their ancestors did. But immigrants think they do all the work.
What about the pipeline in Alaska? Was that mostly Mexican labor? No.
In many states such as Oregon the children brought in the crops for years. The farmers wanted cheaper labor and more year-round so they turned to the legislature and outlawed the labor of "children" though children have worked for thousands of years beside their parents.
We brought in the strawberries, the beans, the hay.
Now, the immigrants think they have always done this work.
When Americans go overseas to work like my father did do they also brag that they are doing all the work? No, because they are grateful, not arrogant like our current immigrants.
I didn't brag or act arrogant when I worked in the fields and the canneries. I was grateful.
I hope every last illegal is deported. They make me ashamed of the human race.

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I don't see anyone explaining why immigrants come to this evil country? No explanation.
If we are the root of all evil, (and the home countries of all immigrants are perfectly functional) why do immigrants come here?
Isn't it because the corruption of their own people (Mexico - famed corruption center) are so horrible they cannot stay there?
Come on, people. Don't gather and tell yourselves comforting lies. Comfort each other, but don't deceive yourselves.
My grandmother was an immigrant, but I don't tell myself she came here because she had to. Obviously, not all her family came. She chose to come and that was fine. But I'm not going to make some kind of martyr out of her.
No one believes these lies you tell yourselves. They are just excuses.

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If criminals are taking over Mexico, why don't the males stay there and help defend their familia from criminals?
What illogical people.

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Funny, the Native Americans on the border are asking the illegals to stop trespassing. They leave all kinds of trash, feces, drugs, old cars, etc.
GO HOME - not even the Native Americans want you.
There are simply too many and it is creating more hate for all people of color.

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Now, there's another reason why parents CANNOT and SHOULD NOT send their children to work bringing in the crops.
In the 60's, 70's, and still, in some areas, there is some kind of oversight. In the 60's teens were bussed from small towns to the fields where they worked from the early morning hours to the afternoon.
However, there were some adults, mostly mothers, but no Mexican, single males.
We could return to a safe system as was in place before, assuring also that remittances NOT be sent to Mexico and that the accompanying drug-dealing system be less likely.
Taking into account the statistics on rape and other crimes with illegals these days, no responsible parent would want to risk exposing their child to the typical Mexican single male.
And that is one reason the Chinese males were shipped back, too. The women of San Francisco were sick of them hanging around, out of work after the railroads were built. Not to mention the opium trade.

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Another part of the equation is the "buy more cheap shit" culture here.

Know what kind of company makes what you buy and make do with less or go without if you can't afford stuff produced by Americans making a living wage.

I'm so tired of hearing folks whine about trade and labor issues. There would be no race to the bottom if consumers didn't have an insatiable appetite for cheap goods.

(If you're over 30, think about what your family owned when you were growing up. Now look at what even the poorest among us consider essentials.)

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Hat’s off. Well done, as we know that “hard work always pays off”, after a long struggle with sincere effort it’s done.
Barbara Brown
Drug Treatment Centers

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SINCE WHEN ARE MEXICANS AND LATINS OUR LIFEBLOOD? MORE LIKE BLOODSUCKERS.

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What part of illegal don't people understand ?
We need to get E verify passed because that would stop corporations from hiring illegal mexicans in the first place. Our politicians especially the liberals want the hispanic vote so they could care less about what the American taxpayer wants. Americans can't go to mexico and work, so why do we let them here. Americans need jobs now with the economy tanking, so get rid of the illegals report them when you can. Mexicans need to take back their own country and make it better otherwise it will always be corrupt if they are running away from the corrupt mexican government it will never be fixed. Don't enable them. It would be like enabling an alcoholic.

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