The U.N. passed a resolution encouraging countries to outlaw "criticism of religions".

Here's the link:
http://newsblaze.com/story /20090327170413zzzz.nb/topstory.html
(remove the space after "story")

And although U.S. has a tradition on thumbing its nose at the U.N., I'd wager that this is one resolution will be embraced and fought for in America, possibly turning into law. The "religious right" can certainly afford that - after all, zillions of dollars go a long way if you get them in exchange for nothing and doesn't have to pay ANY taxes. The perfect con...

k

p.s. - next, they're going to make it a crime telling kids that Santa doesn't exist.

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Eve was the only one to accept God's request for a Steward of Eden. Had it not been for her willingness to accept this position humanity would never have evolved. Lilth refused and vanished. Adam was not willing- so he was relegated to merely a seed dropper- not the gender to sustain and bring forth life- much like the Creator is able to do.Eve was willing to accept the responsiblity of not only child bearing & rearing- she accepted the duties of care taker of all of 'Eden', through the knowledge she had gained.
Further Proof God does not hate Females for this decision- every 'savior' or container God has Shown up in- was born. He CHOOSE to 'touch' a female. Considering God was able to Create Heaven and Earth- I'm sure if he wanted to drop his 'only son'(Himself) from on High- it could have been very easily- just like he had very thing else before.So He has a certian level of Trust in our abilities, so he continues to grant Us this unique trait/gift.
Evidence of males inablity to adhere to the responsiblities of parenting is seen everyday - How many Johnny apple seeds drop their sperm and walk away? Thousands. If God thought males were the more nurturing of the genders - He could easily switch us, just like Sea horses- don't ya think? Theres a reason for the term 'Almighty'.
Of course if Humanity was 'Created in His image' the reference to 'He' is generic. More likely since 'He' is the One who Created and brought forth life- 'he' is more akin to a 'she'.
When you review the History of the Big 3 Religions, in the context of the 10 Golden rules- Ya gotta wonder what these male dominated religions have actually been Serving.They've been Killing, stealing and coveting to adhere to the worship of their own sacred Cows and some editted ancient Texts- instead of the One and Only One which they claim they all revere- Monotheists? hardly.It's not brain surgery here- if you can't comprehend and follow the 10 Commandments- You can not accurately decipher the rest of the Books, either.
So why do these religions hate Woman- purely Jealousy. and Which entity is the "jealous one" because it can not create nor bring forth life itself- only drop it's vile seeds of hate and fear into the minds of humans,to Decieve them and get them to break the Laws of God...'could it be Satan'?
God did not have to Create an 'Eve', there are plenty of Hermaphroditic species, He Choose to Create Eve after he had already created Adam. Maybe he saw Adam could be improved upon.Ultimately isn't the oppression of woman a form of disdain for one of Gods creations? The same view as the 'Fallen one' has towards Humanity? Careful Boys- Your immortal souls may be in on the line.

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... will grow up to be like them?

That's the part I don't get.

How many eventual apostates were raised as strict fundamentalists, only to rebel once they grew up?

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The challenge to Quiverful and their followers is how to raise a brood of kids in complete culrural isolation from society while still enabling them to function in society when they grow up. Maybe children can be raised and educated without TV or the internet, but sooner or later they're going to have to interact with the world as it is and they will have a difficult time. A lot of the kids are groing to grow up and see that they were fed a ration of shit and rebel, like a lot of kids do. Force-feeding ignorance is an unlikely avenue to evolutionary success.

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I came across this article on Alternet and read with interest about the people and the teachings which our family had followed for many years. I was kind of amazed that someone on this site knew about this movement ~ so I posted a comment on the article ~ and that's how I got in touch with Kathryn Joyce.

As a woman who has lived this way of life, taught it to others through my writing for home school books and magazines, I really want to just encourage everyone who has been touched by the Quiverfull philosophy in any way to read Joyce's book.

I wish I could quote the whole thing for you ~ and then sit back and read the comments which would sound something like, "OMFG!" and "Is this stuff for real? ~ People actually believe this and live this way?!!" Yes ~ it's true. The thing is, those of us who followed (and are still following) the Quiverfull / patriarchal lifestyle got into it gradually ~ just a little at a time. For us, it started with homeschooling which seemed pretty radical at the time.

When I talked to Kathryn Joyce over the phone as she was interviewing me for an article on Salon.com, I told her I found it very affirming that for most of the book, she simply sticks to quoting the movement leaders ~ often with no commentary at all. "What that said to me," I explained, "is that to those who aren't steeped in this particular worldview, the craziness of it all is self-evident. There's no need to say, 'This is total crap!' because anyone who isn't already convinced can clearly see that it's truly insane to try and live this way."

Something else I really appreciate about this book ~ Quiverfull puts the whole movement on display all at once. The reason this is important is that for most families, getting into this lifestyle is a step-by-step process ~ a progression from "peculiar" to seriously bizarre which takes place incrementally over a period of many years.

Twenty years ago, if I would have read Quiverfull, I believe seeing the big picture of where we were headed would have shocked us enough to cause me to take a good, hard look ~ no doubt, I'd have gone elsewhere in my search for solutions to the everyday problems of family life.

No way could you interest me in a harsh, demanding lifestyle of lots of babies, home schooling, home birth, home business, home church, no children's programs, no teenagers (Quiverfullers do not have "teenagers"), no dating, parents choosing their children's spouses, husband making all the decisions and wife not daring to make the slightest commitment without first obtaining her husband's approval, no TV, only G- and some PG-rated movies, and absolutely NO Harry Potter.

There is a great deal of heartache and drama in the story of how I came to disavow that whole lifestyle along with the Christian religion and the Bible upon which those family principles are based ~ but I guess what it really comes down to is this:

My children were not thriving in the isolated and controlling environment which had developed in our home as a result of following the patriarchal family structure.

Here's a link to the blog where I've been processing all of it: No Longer Quivering

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as heathen a notion as peaceful coexistence.

or protestantism itself?

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This gives yet another new meaning to the phrase "cluster fuck."

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If you have loads of kids and then home-school them till the age of 14 you will be engendering generations of ignorant & fragile narcissists with a inferiority complex and, at the same time, a belief in their own specialness.

Of course "they" will have fantasies of defeating "us".

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This is a great article. It presents the beliefs of these people objectively and lets the reader come to their own conclusion of the lunacy of the beliefs. Which is better than a diatribe that says more of the critic than it does of the subject.

Contratulations on a great presentation.

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I married a man who was a conservative fundamentalist and tried for years to fit myself into that mold--I felt smothered. Over the years he became considerably more liberal. Now neither of us can understand why women accept this extreme subjugation.

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The most amazing thing about these morons and their stupid religiosity is to me their inability to read all of the book they worship. They pick out the parts they want to force on their followers and leave out everything that modifies, mitigates or denies the garbage they want to spew. It is quite true that Paul says, "The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband:" (1Cor. 7:4). But is also undeniably true (for anyone who actually owns a Bible) that he also says, IN THE VERY SAME VERSE, "and likewise also the husband hath not the power of his own body, but the wife." How come we never hear the conmen tell us that the text teaches equality and reciprocity between man and woman, husband and wife? Could it be that this would blow the lid off their campaign to brainwash people into believing nonsense? Yeah, that must be it. The truth they try so desperately to hide is that you don't have to get involved in secular society to realize you've been lied to; you merely have to read your Bible.

With love under will,

Bob, Adastra,
The Wizzard of Jacksonville

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Not everyone who homeschools thier kids hides them under a rock. I fully intend to have a large family and homeschool my children, and I'm the farthest thing from a fundementalist Christian as you can get.

I just hate the public schools

I fully intend to have my kids reading Shakespeare and solving quadratic equations while thier peers are still reading Dr. Suess and multiplying fractions.

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They need a place to hide from responsibility and what better place than "serving God" and in the confines of holy matrimony. I'm not sure I buy into their reasons for the lifestyle. They have much more security than the average woman who has a husband, children and a full time job. They are not required to get an education, stay employed and raise a family. They live in their little cucoons and do what their told. They are incapble of making decsions of any kind. In many ways they're off the hook. Nothing is their fault. I don't envy them but none of them will ever get laid off from a job they like, lose a home or need charity. Everything is taken care of. It's a high price to pay. I'll take commuting in a blizzard any day. Thanks, ANNA

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Economics usually trumps ideology. The economy is going to punish wacko religious nut cases from all ends of the spectrum who try to "multiply" their way to political power.

The birthrate will fall because the coming Depression is going to see to it that it does.

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This is the obvious truth at the center of all this crap.

Women are powerful. With the smallest, most joyously surrendered contribution from men, women can create life. With the advance of technology, they may be able to do it without men.

The future belongs to those who will populate it. Women are the doorway to the future. Is there any wonder that men seek to control women? That's what movements like this are all about. God can morph into whatever role the movement may need over the centuries, just as God always has, but the oppression of women will always remain a centerpiece in these stories.

There are many ways to fight these movements. Education of women is chief among them... but as we allow them to sequester their girls away, we give them power because we allow them to beat their girls into cooperative women.

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Religion doesn't necessarily breed tolerance of others, though it should. Christian solders, killing for Christ, is oxymoronish at best and pure evil at worst. The latter being so often the case.

The Catholic Church, my religion, is very near the position of these quiverfull people. It is but one step removed from them. Once again, Christian soldiers, killing for Christ is oxymoronish at best, and pure evil at worst.

All of these puritans and puritanical groups were very, very "low church" in The British Isles. They left England to escape religious persecution and what are they doing here in America, the very same thing, promoting another religious persecution of their own making. Once again, America is suffering from vestiges of feudal class Britain. Much the same is coming from the Catholic Church, and for only somewhat slightly different reasons.

Apropos of that white supremacist thing, every Catholic I have ever known, including nearly all of my relatives, are both anti Black and anti Jewish. My relatives are just very careful to not express that stuff around me. They know better! I won't tolerate that bullshit or gender intolerance, from them or anyone else, including even priests and nuns. I wouldn't tolerate it from the Pope or the prez., Rethug or Dem. In those ways I, too, can be intolerant.

The others in my family who are more tolerant, are my dad and my brother. Dad spent WWII serving aboard merchant marine ships, carrying war materiel such as bombs, tanks, fighter aircraft in wooden crates, Av gas, munitions etc, and lived with other men of every persuasion. My brother was a USMC sergeant who spent his years in Vietnam and elsewhere among other men of every other persuasion, also. Those experiences made them a bit more tolerant of others. Possibly, there is nothing like knowing you are vulnerable and can die in the next second to encourage humility which may lead to tolerance. I am very accepting of others, save for those who are themselves, intolerant of others. Of them, I am intolerant.

I'm not sure how I came by my acceptance of, and respect for, others. It must have begun with a Jewish boy I met and liked when I was eight years old, and a Black guy I met and liked when I was a freshman in college. I remember those two people, even today, and after all of these many years. Those feelings, in me, have been reaffirmed many, many thousands of times, over the 65 years of my life.

The Quiverfull people are ultra-conservative evangelical fundies. the Catholic Church is, like them, an ultra conservative religion which holds the very same views. In the past both groups nave been arch enemies. Now they find some common ground around gays and abortion. Someday, they will, once again, be at each others throats.

Meanwhile they are attacking America, as are their political allies the Cons and the Neocons of the Repub party. Now they attack the middle and lower socioeconomic class, the working class of America and their families.

For the Cons it is all about wealth and economics, defeating the bad guys. For the Neocons it is all about national security, killing and defeating the bad guys. For the Theocons it is all about religious issues, killing and defeating the bad guys. To them everyone who does not agree with them are the bad guys. We and so many others are the BAD GUYS. Europeans are the bad guys. Russians and Muslims are the bad guys. The Chinese are okay because the Repubs do business with them. When the Chinese aren't okay, the Repubs will want us to die, attacking the Chinese; as is now taking place in Iraq.

This ALL has to do with only one thing: POWER. Power over the daily lives of every one else.

This attacking America, is what both groups call Pro-life and Family Values.

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wouldn't be needed to fight our enemies all over the planet if we kept our God damned nose out of everybody else's business. In the meantime we can continue with our, "Onward Christian Soldier marching as to war" overtures looking for new places to invade, take over, and steal more resources from. Maybe we can designate more small islands where we can experiment with our nuclear bombs and perhaps disintegrate bigger ones this time - that will really impress your God.

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You are doing what conservatives do all the time on townhall.com---they take a statement and exaggerate it to a ridiculous degree, then react to it as if it's an established fact in the present. Example last week: a townhall columnist wrote that Obama wants national health care. In threads posted to that article posters soon converted this to "Obama wants to ration health care" and onward to "Obama has already established gulags for the elderly where medical care will be withheld". The point of doing this is to elicit hysterical reaction.

Let's try to apply some logic to the question you present. 1) United States law is enacted by the United States Congress, not by the United Nations. Since Congress reflects the will of our population, any laws they pass will reflect that same will. They taught me in school that social policy must reflect society's values, otherwise it will fail. 2) "Might" is a future tense, conditional voice verb---not a statement of fact. Donald Duck MIGHT land on your roof tonight after midnight---why don't you sit up there all night and wait for him?

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People just have this NEED for social approval. They NEED a guarantee that life will turn out just fine, that they are doing the right things and saying the right things and meeting the right people. Although equality and co-operation would seem like no-brainers to anyone over the age of 5 (especially for those who profess to have read the New Testament!), we fall prey time and time again to the selfish desire to be told we are "better" than others.

The best way to hit these christian hypocrites where it hurts is in the pocket book. TAX the churches, TAX the preachers and TAX the hell out of big charity CEOs - if they are not putting their money directly back into third world schools and orphanages then TAX THEM. There are people who will do the work out of love ... or the selfish thrill of telling others how to live. As long as religion remains a tax shelter, the right-wing goons will flock to most oppressive environment that righteousness can buy.

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As a Christian although not very religious since I'm fed up with it, it saddens me to see the cultists ruining the religion and copying bad elements of other religions to soil our religion. The Muslims and Hindus have their own business to take care of and we Christians have no business butting in. History will not take kindly to Christianity turning hypocritical.

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I found a great deal of truth in the idea that many Christians are terrified of anyone who is not like them. At the same time, there are also a number of Christians who seem to take a perverse solace in identifying themselves as unique in their beliefs. For example, I've heard Baptists, Church of Christ adherents, Pentacostals, and others claim that other "so-called" Christian sects are really not Christians.

The bizarre combination of these two tendencies creates a kind of paranoia that just might lead directly to a drive for certain Christians to increase their numbers exponentially.

As an agnostic, I've never been able to distinguish substantial differences among the Abrahamic religions. They all believe in Yaweh, Jehovah, Allah, or some other monotheistic version of an omnipotent, omniscient patriarchal creator. They all tend to be rather mysogynistic and steeped in a belief that women are the tempters who corrupt men. They all have weird sexual hangups, rather similar (although somewhat arbitrary) moral structures, and strictures against pleasure including - to some degree at least - alcohol. The details do make a difference; the belief in Jesus does make the Christians from the others, reverence for Mohammed defines much of the Muslim religion, and other divergences are not totally insignificant. However, the basic belief in one god who watches us, rewards us, and punishes us for an ancient set of transgressions is quite similar.

But in spite of the similarities, these religions have been at each others throats for centuries. And one of the manifestations of the ancient religious conflicts is the fear among American Christians that Muslims are taking over Europe. This seems particularly true of those who get their news from hate radio, Christian TV, and Fox.

I have an acquaintance whom I like very much as long as he keeps quiet about religion or politics. He knows this, and he is very fond of me, so he refrains from discussing these subjects any more, but before I went ballistic over some of his more asinine comments, he used to interject into conversations his abiding fear that Europe will be predominantly Muslim by the year 2020. (I'm not sure why he cares, as he is now 63 years old and in poor health, but it's a real issue with him.)

Nothing brings people together like a common enemy, so it's likely that this fearmongering and demonizing of the other is purposeful and relentless. Being irrational, logic and facts do not deter the feelings or convictions of True Believers. They will try anything they can to stem the tide of minorities, Muslims, atheists, humanists, or liberal religions. If this includes subjugating women, promoting excessive numbers of children, homeschooling, suppressing science, or fabricating the dangers coming from anyone with even slightly diverging religious beliefs, that's what they will do.

It's been said before, and it probably bears repeating, that the difference between believers and non-believers is that non-believers really don't care what you believe as long as you don't try to push it on everyone else. Unfortunately, it's inherent in much of Christianity to force others to adhere. I sincerely hope the quiverfull movement, along with the rest of evangelical Christianity, is in its final burst of life before it begins its descent - kind of like the weird way terminal patients sometimes suddenly seem to be radiant right before they die.

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The reality, though, is that a growing number of American Christian fundamentalists also have rejected feminism and egalitarianism, embracing instead male dominance and what they call the "Quiverfull" belief system.

In a country of 300M, you will find some willing and less-than-willing nutjobs if you look hard enough. Congratulations.

Here's another new word for you: "status quo"

When Americans think of patriarchal societies, female submission, or extreme gender inequality based on religious teachings, visions of Muslim women in burkas or Hindus in poorly arranged marriages may come to mind.

Fathom the difference?

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And this is gonna be especially true as the oil supplies keep tightening along with the economic crunch. Even Pat Robertson is being forced to hit the ceiling these days. I even exposed 4 churches in VA Beach for their sheer economic and war-mongering hypocrisies and their plans to dupe their members and soon after memberships plummetted and 3 out of 4 were forced to declare bankruptcy with 1 teetering on the edge of it. This Christian won't give up the fight to take down rightwing cultists. I recommend the same to others who are sick and tired of ultra-rightwing bullshit getting merged into religion.

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There really are monsters lurking under children's beds, in the closets, and in the shadows. They disappear instantly when the lights are turned on or when sunlight illuminates the room. Those monsters are ninnies who, unfortunately were allwed to BREED and turn their progeny into ninnies like themselves. In this case, turning on the lights or letting sunlight into the room is as simple as having a first-rate public education system, devoid of creation myths, six thousand year old Earths, and other claptrap designed to turn kids into ninnies.

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It's not a clown car

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Now that people of color are off limits to "business" predators, immigrants and women and their children are next on the list to be enslaved.

These people who want to be "boss" are simply insatiable! They will never give up on the idea that they deserve to be served by family underlings!

We are all slated to be the victims of the ancient but recently revived fertility scam, folks. I guess there are huge numbers of men around who think they can and should make a handsome living just by "doin' what comes natcherly." All I can say is, Yuck!

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Refusing to practice restraint in ones breeding habits by rejecting "artificial" birth-control is acceptable only if one refuses "artificial" death-control; in other words modern medicine. Basically if you want to have 15 children then accept the fact that about 1/3 of them should die naturally before they are 5 years old. As for the parents they should accept a natural death before the age of 50. The bible makes it quite clear that God did not intend for man to have his cake and eat it too.

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with the whole theory of "having as many children as God wants to send you," which is also the official dogma of the Catholic Church, is that then by rights you should also (in order to achieve population parity) agree that you will not take steps to prevent God from taking them away. People used to have large families because often less than half their children lived to adulthood. In order to take away birth control, you really should subtract death control as well.

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with the whole theory of "having as many children as God wants to send you," which is also the official dogma of the Catholic Church, is that then by rights you should also (in order to achieve population parity) agree that you will not take steps to prevent God from taking them away. People used to have large families because often less than half their children lived to adulthood. In order to take away birth control, you really should subtract death control as well.

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as ammo [arrow] in a war. Not entirely respectful of the integrity of a child to use him/her as an object.

I think Kant had something to say about that.

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Christians, have been sold the idea that they are jew!; just because jesus was a jew. he was the son of GOD, not GOD himself. anyway the jews do not belive in Jesus...www.henrybook.com

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what is the meaning of 'catholic'? what do they belive in?.. catholic-apostolic and roman? what is that. after many years of repiting as a parrot all these , is just air behind it; does anybody knows, let me hear from you, thanks...www.henrybook.com

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others it is a major mental disorder curable with lots of therapy and medication. Faith- the ability to believe in something you know can't possibly be true. The average christian is as self-deluded as those Germans who believed in hitler.

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This article basically seems to be a fear piece to invoke visions of swastikas and crosses. I am as skeptical of religion as anyone I know, but I am also skeptical of any ideolotry (yes, I just coined a new term) hiding behind fear-mongering. If anyone tries to induce fear or unnecessary hostility I suspect that rational and civil argument in the interests of peace and justice are not their motivation. I don't care what their stated (or unstated) spiritual (or lack thereof) beliefs are.

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We need to point out FORCEFULLY that these Quiverfull loonies are not Christians. If you put misconstrued Old Testament teaching over the Christ, then you are no different than the Pharisees of Jesus' time who didn't get the point, either. It's pretty obvious that the men in this movement cannot handle the concepts of love, justice, equality, etc. that Jesus was REALLY talking about. Jesus was obviously not frightened of strong, equal women- why were so many of his close followers women? Only weak, fear-filled, and self-doubting men could ask the woman who is supposed to be their life-partner to deny her basic personhood and be nothing but a brood hen. Sick philosophy, sick interpretation of religion, sick men.

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The universal hatred of gay people by most religious and even non-religous societies has provided an eternally-open wound by which those in power can control and decimate all other groups of people.

When all sorts of people composing a MAJORITY of the culture, rabidly partake in the persecution of homosexuals (or any other group, but the homos have been the chosen scapegoat for at least a millenium), society constructs its own DE-construction, and begins to experience the very terror they've so gleefully spawned upon the non-hetero minority.

In your own ignorance, you did not see this coming. It is not too late, IF and ONLY if, enough citizens aggressively resist homophobia and create laws and sanctions of ZERO TOLERANCE against gay bashing.

Otherwise, enjoy the hell you've created by your own demonic thoughts, if not outright actions.

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Speaking as a child who grew up in a christian home. The peer pressure and psychological tactics they use can be quite insidious on chilren who are at risk for developing religious belief. My grandmother used to cry whenever I'd start asking questions about the logical coherency of belief in god or whenever I'd ask about the tremndous suffering, or the injustices of primitive triabl people in other parts of the world who would never read a bible and be 'condemned', in our particular offshoot of christianity.

As a child who is teased or mocked and does not fit in at school or society, the idea of god can be quite comforting. You have to remember marx quote "Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature", just because you are secular, doesn't mean you are a nice person. Often times it can be qutie comforting to go to a church where you are just accepted for who you are, I've met a tonne of nice people at different churches who's quality of character far outstrips most secular people who speak compassion out one side of their mouth, but are flaming self absorbed, hostile, prejudice bastards on the other.

I would imagine many religious people fall into these categories: Mentally ill, depressed, poor, abused, disturbed, traumatized, etc.

That's not to say there aren't perfectly normal religious people, with the only thing odd being their religious beliefs.

Anyone with any kind of anthropology experience in university should know that religion is a universal facet of human nature, there are thousands upon thousands of religions and mystic traditions, these things occur over and over a reason.

If scientists and secular people were not so hostile to the people who find meaning in these traditions many would make the jump a lot easier. You don't get very far converting someone by arguing with them or calling them names, you have to realize - what someone believes must be born of their own convictions.

Would any feminist here for instance suggest that she just fell into feminism? Or did she have an experience that gave birth to these convictions? It's both depending on where one happens to be born. I'm sure there are women on both sides of the feminism fence, where ones who were raised by fenimist mothers moved away from it, while others moved towards it. Same principle.

Until people, both religious and secular become more welcoming or accepting of societies undesirables, expect religion to continue.

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Jindal has three kids, Palin has five.
Exceptional amongst Professional Christian Rightist Right to Lifer Republicans.
Most have only one or two -- if any.
How do people who don't use ABORTION or CONTRACEPTION manage not to have children by the dozen?
Abstinence?
Absentmindedness?
Closet Homosexuality?
Indolence?
Incompetence?
Impotence?
Cashel Boylo

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I see where the article talks about these people as being opposed to Birth Control and AntiSex Do they realise HOW those little arrows get made ?
Sadly as a Catholic I am well aware of the churchs stand on Birth Control as expresssed by an entirely male dominated Structure .

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I am a Red State Feminist who belongs to a Christian faith that has a very different view of Eve than most Christian churches. What a church thinks about Eve will determine whether it is "patriarchal" or not.

In my own tradition, our elders have made some very strong pronouncements. For example, our scholars have declared that "m'shl bet," which is the Hebrew phrase used in Genesis (and translated as "rule over" in the KJV of the verse, "and he shall rule over thee") has been mistranslated. "Bet" means "with," not "over," and God was telling Eve, "and he shall rule with thee."

Also: "You must not misunderstand what the Lord meant when Adam was told he was to have a helpmeet. A helpmeet is a companion suited to or equal to us. We walk side by side with a helpmeet, not one before or behind the other. A helpmeet results in an absolute equal partnership between a husband and a wife. Eve was to be equal to Adam as a husband and wife are to be equal to each other. She was not his servant or his subordinate."

In the Garden of Eden were two trees: the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and the tree of life. Eve and her daughters have stewardship over the first tree, and Adam and his sons have stewardship over the second tree. The first tree represents entry into mortality and nurturing the light of Christ within each soul that it may awake to the goodness of God and the plan of happiness that is the Gospel of Christ. Eve did not sin in partaking of the fruit of this tree, as it was her foreordained stewardship to open the way to mortal life for all of the children of God. Her act was a necessary transgression to allow a separation between God and man, so that the test of mortality--the test of faith and agency--could commence for God's children. God meant for Eve to partake.

Once Eve had courageously performed this act, God turned to Adam and gave him stewardship over the tree of life--to provide a church to teach the gospel, and to provide ordinances such as baptism, in order to help the children of God achieve salvation and prepare to return home to heaven once more. That is why God said to Eve, "and he [Adam] shall rule with thee"--she had stepped up to the plate, and now Adam would, too. God promised that Adam would equally contribute to the plan of happiness. And God rewarded Eve with the gift of childbearing after she had demonstrated her courage.

Therefore, the particular scriptures about submission that have caused some Christians so much trouble involve submission of the wife to the ordinances of the tree of life: a woman should follow her husband to church (if its teachings are true), and partake of the ordinances of salvation. But Adam also hearkened unto Eve, and Adam's sons must do likewise. Men must listen to women's teachings regarding forming marriages and having children, and focusing one's efforts on the love and nurture of that union and its children.

So there is mutual submission under God: the man submitting to the woman, and the woman submitting to the man in their respective divinely-appointed stewardships. This creates a beautiful system of equal power and equal contribution. And in all other things outside their respective stewardships, there is absolute equal partnership and equal voice for both.

Again: "There is not a president and vice-president in a family. We have co-presidents working together eternally for the good of their family. They are on equal footing. They plan and organize the affairs of the family jointly and unanimously as they move forward."

What if your first foremother was a valiant and courageous woman, and not an airhead or evil? It changes a lot of things, I think.

Red State Gal
RedStateFeminists

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You don't have to go along with nonsense, you can send a message to the religious authorities that you de-subscribe.

http://www.secularism.org.uk/debaptism.html

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