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China Hates Us -- How Much Longer Will They Back Our Debt-Ridden Economy?

By Scott Thill, AlterNet. Posted April 3, 2009.


At worst, it could spell the end of America as a superpower and destroy the global economy as we know it.

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It started with a joke, but quickly went viral everywhere from the South China Sea to the White House.

"We hate you guys," Luo Ping, director-general at the China Banking Regulatory Commission, wisecracked in New York last month, speaking of the U.S. habit of issuing trillions worth of the Treasury bills that China still considers safe havens. "Once you start issuing $1 trillion, $2 trillion ... we know the dollar is going to depreciate, so we hate you guys, but there is nothing much we can do."

That is, nothing much aside from flexing China's economic and military muscle, the latter of which it recently accomplished in the South China Sea when five Chinese vessels aggressively surrounded the USNS Impeccable, an unarmed surveillance ship spying in the internationally contested Spratly Islands.

The Impeccable turned firehoses on the encroaching ships, whose sailors nevertheless stripped down to their underwear and continued to move in as close as 25 feet from the ship.

Laughably terming the nearly naked Chinese display of territorial strength "provocative," a Pentagon spokesman complained that China, America's largest creditor and owner of the world's largest holding of U.S. Treasuries, and its marine vessels' bold actions "violated the requirement under international law to operate with due regard for the rights and safety of other lawful users of the ocean."

After all, the last thing the United States needs from China, a nation bankrolling not just our economic but also our military gamesmanship, is a bunch of naked nationalists reminding us that our empire is in steep decline.

Flex Those Biceps

"China is beginning to show some muscle," explains journalist and economist Danny Schechter, whose 2006 documentary In Debt We Trust examined the capital flows that led us to our worst downturn since the 1930s. "This is why Hillary Clinton was so easy on China in her recent visit, after once popularly criticizing its human rights record. The U.S. is trying to signal to China that our economy is strong, but at the end of the day, the proof is in the pudding. If there is any pudding left."

Schechter's grim assessment is one shared on both sides of the Pacific. Since the Obama administration came to power just as the global economy sputtered to a halt, Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao has repeatedly complained that the world's major economies, especially that of the United States, have been witlessly living and spending on borrowed time and money.

"I think the main reason for this global financial crisis is the imbalances of some of the economies themselves," the premier correctly noted in early February. "For a long time, they have had double deficits [trade and budget deficits] and kept up high consumption based on massive borrowing."

In mid-March, Wen was more forcefully direct: "We have lent a huge amount of money to the U.S., [and] we are concerned about the safety of our assets," he said. "To be honest, I am definitely a little worried."

But how far is his country willing to go to safeguard those assets? If Chin purchases fewer of those Treasuries, or, in the worst-case scenario, holds a nightmare sell-off of those assets, it could ruin the United States economy in ways we can only imagine at this stage of the geopolitical game.

At best, it could dump the dollar into the currency basement as the world follows China's suit and diversifies its reserves in other denominations. At worst, it could spell the end of America as a superpower and destroy the global economy as we know it.

Spice It Up

As the AIG controversy came to a head, and member nations prepared for the G20 conference in London on April 2, the governor of the People's Bank of China, Zhou Xiaochuan, proposed replacing the dollar as the world's reserve currency, using instead what he called a "super-sovereign" currency managed by the International Monetary Fund.


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See more stories tagged with: china, economy, dollar, deficits, financial crisis, reserve currency, yuan

Scott Thill runs the online mag Morphizm. His writing has appeared on Salon, XLR8R, All Music Guide, Wired and others.

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This is REALLY bad
Posted by: Tom Degan on Apr 3, 2009 1:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've been saying this for over three years and I will say it again here:

The moment that China - whether for political, economic or military reasons - decides to pull the financial rug out from under us, this country is finished.

It amazes me just contemplating the recklessness and stupidity of the previous administration. How they could have allowed this once-great nation to get to this point boggles the mind.

Is there anyone left out there who seriously doubts that George W. Bush is the worst president in American history? Anyone? Make yourself known, please.

Lethal Nation

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Might be really good Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: Might be really good Posted by: robert.noll
» Can I raise my hand!!!!! Posted by: 2thepoint
» Amen, Sister Lauren! Posted by: Tom Degan
» Don't look now Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Americans En Masse Say...Huh?? Posted by: BigElectricCat
» RE: This is REALLY bad Posted by: QuestionAuthority
» RE: This is REALLY bad Posted by: tshirt-doctor.com
Go for it, China.
Posted by: GuitarBill on Apr 3, 2009 2:05 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Okay, as a hypothetical, let assume that China refuses to purchase US Treasury bonds.

:P

Go for it, China.

Obviously, if China pursues their alleged monetary policy the US dollar will plummet in value and the Yuan will skyrocket in value.

Say goodbye Walmart.

That said, is this development undesirable?

Obviously, Chinese imports would rise in value, making domestically produced American goods once again competitive with Chinese manufacturers.

Not good, if you're China's prime minister, Wen Jiabao.

:P

Sucker!

As a result, goods in China would become more expensive (not good Wen Jiabao), which kills the Chinese consumer market.

Put another way, if that genius, Wen Jiabao, stops buying US denominated debt, he'll do precisely what the US government has been demanding that China do--increase the value of the Yuan.

Sucker.

Thus, the days of China's vicious currency manipulation will end--now.

Sucker.

Go for it, China.

The Federal Reserve will buy trillions in long-term debt--which WILL DWARF any possible purchases of long bonds by the Chinese (they only hold ~1 trillion in US debt). As a result, the Federal Reserve will simply increase its purchases to offset the lost US Treasury bond demand.

Suckers.

Does this equal inflation for Americans?

Absolutely not!

Why?

It really doesn't matter whether the Chinese government or the Fed is buying bonds to hold down the long-term interest rate--the impact on the inflation rate will be the same.

In response, foreign central banks will begin to purchase long-term US Treasury bonds in order to keep long-term interests down.

The bottom line: Wen Jiabao is f*cked!

He has nothing with which to threaten the United States--period.

Good luck, Wen, because you're going to need it, bucko.

This article is all bark and no bite.

:P

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Offensive no, accurate yes! Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Accurate no Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Accurate no Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Well actually, Posted by: Reader in Japan
» RE: Go for it, China. Posted by: newawakening
» RE: Go for it, China. Posted by: robert.noll
» RE: Go for it, China. Posted by: theblackgeorgecarlin
How fitting
Posted by: Perry Logan on Apr 3, 2009 2:33 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How fitting that the neocons would sell our country to the communists.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: How fitting Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: How fitting Posted by: 2thepoint
Go for it, China! Any nation that would bring 9/11 onto itself should not be a superpower.
Posted by: pfgetty on Apr 3, 2009 3:10 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once you realize the truth of 9/11, and realize how bad a nation must be to do such a horrible thing to itself, you also realize this nation should not continue as a powerful nation.
Obviously, such a nation has such a dark and deep evil running through its vein that it is best destroyed, from within or from without.
America is so deeply flawed, much like Nazi Germany, that nothing but the destruction of its ability to project power and sustain itself should be its future.

I used to think there was some hope..........yes, we did this horrible thing to ourselves, blamed others, massacred others for revenge, and high fived ourselves about it all. But after all was done and said, our press would show us what a monstrous thing had been done, we would all awaken to this disease that had gotten hold of our national brain, and we would cut out the disease and move on.

I have almost no hope that this can be done, now, after seven and a half years of the spreading disease process. The only medicine that could help, media exposure of the disease, is completely being avoided.
When I realized the msm would not expose 9/11, I thought, YES, alternative media, like Alternet, would do it.........GO FOR IT! Richard Gage and David Ray Griffin and Kevin Ryan and Steven Jones were doing the work necessary, proving that 9/11 was an inside job, and this would appear on the pages of alternet and Democracy Now and Counterpunch and antiwar.com and CommonDreams, and the rest. An awakening would begin, and investigation would follow, and the anger and shock would lead finally to healing, and a new desire to rebuild our institutions and national identity, taking back our money and drive from the likes of Neocons and Zionists and corporatists and brazen banking elite.

But, I was sadly mistaken..........our media, all of it, alternative and msm, conspired as one, to ensure that NO national debate over the real evidence or the coverup would ever come to any part of our press, except very obscure websites that only the already informed go to.

Alternet should have led the way. It brings out the real news on so many issues hidden from the msm. Many of these issues are only issues because of 911.........rendition, torture, illegal wars, the Patriot Act, wiretapping, etc etc.
Yet Alternet has decided to purposely keep 9/11 truth from the American people.
We don't know why. Threats, economic pressure by contributors?
All we do know is that in all these years, the biggest story of all time is kept from us. It is very obvious that Alternet made a deal somewhere, as had all other alternative popular sites.
And it is destroying us.
Our children and grandchildren will despise us for allowing this to happen to us, so needlessly.
Alternet, DO something. Not to expose 9/11 truth is treason!

And if you don't expose 9/11, then maybe the best thing that can happen is that the rest of the world, like China, destroys us and takes over. How can they be any worse than a nation that allows the lies of 9/11 to endure?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» PFGetty = Giuliani Posted by: brunowe
» What? Posted by: pfgetty
» RE: What? Posted by: brunowe
» RE: What? Posted by: pfgetty
» RE: What? Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: What? Posted by: pfgetty
» RE: What? Posted by: chomsky
» The point is your monomania Posted by: brunowe
» RE: What? Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: What? Posted by: techcafe
» And I say you are wrong Posted by: pfgetty
» RE: Time for an honest 9/11 Investigation Posted by: ron heringhauser
» ;-) Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE:Silverstein said "PULL IT"! Posted by: sasquuatch55
» "Molten pools of steel", Reg? Posted by: GuitarBill
» "Squibs", Reg? Posted by: GuitarBill
» Typo Posted by: GuitarBill
» "Pyroclastic flow", Reg? Posted by: GuitarBill
» WTC 7 is easy to explain. Posted by: GuitarBill
blithering idiots
Posted by: shikejian on Apr 3, 2009 4:16 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
are amazingly mostly Americans. Arrogant, ignortant, xenophobic, fear mongering south ends of sorry horses going north. There is so very much wrong with this article, a book could be written but, alas, would never find publication and so the blithering idiots would remain blithering, blathering...

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Assuming China wants to cut its own throat
Posted by: brunowe on Apr 3, 2009 4:19 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
China can make all the noises it wants about replacing the dollar as the international reserve currency, but it's stuck on the dollar almost as much as we are. In order for China to sell off US treasuries, they need to find buyers. Given the large fraction of outstanding US securities held by China (about 24% of the value in January, measured in billions of $), they are going to have a hard time finding enough of them to absorb that amount. Further, if the markets even get a scent of a run in these securities, the value might plunge faster than China could sell them off.

China can, and has, sold off US treasuries (and divested itself of the US dollar) slowly--but given how heavily invested it is (about a third of its foreign currency reserves are in US dollars, a wholesale switch to, for example, the Euro, would diminish the value of those reserves arguably faster than they could sell them off--if they could even find a buyer.

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told ya so...
Posted by: ellie on Apr 3, 2009 4:34 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
long time ago, in a land of greed and credit cards, purchasing poor quality Chinese made stuff (but hey, it's cheap!!!) was going to bite us in the rump... think the dog has bit and is coming in for another round...

the article states that China is campaigning for a world currency backed by the real thugs at the IMF... with IMF international currency, everyone could convert over and leave the treasury beyond broke (really broke not paper broke)... binding us to 3rd world status and the same contracts for production...

or China could insist on cashing in and taking real estate in exchange (acreage not buildings)... think about the possibility of that... China owning the land your house sits on...

going to be interesting...

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» RE: told ya so... Posted by: Sister_Lauren
Thank you Alternet for finally brining up this red alert !
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield on Apr 3, 2009 4:43 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Every spending program done by both the previous administration and this one is relying on money being borrowed from other nations including China. Any dumbass who wants to tell me that "China is cutting its own throat" doesn't know jack about what they're talking about. This country will be stuck in a financial chastity belt for decades to come once these countries we're borrowing heavily from switch us OFF. No more wars, no more tax cuts and loopholes for the wealthy/corporate elite, and no more bailing out Wall $treet. Eliminate spending in those 3 areas and this country's on its way towards back its debts back.

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No group has ever in the history of our nation
Posted by: peridot on Apr 3, 2009 4:47 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
done so much harm as the thieves and incompetents that constituted the 'administration' of George W. Bush. What these creeps are in fact are traitors to the nation. Their misfeasance, malfesance, and nonfeasance of office must be publicly investigated. They have committed crimes they may have destroyed America.

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Comment on China Hates Us
Posted by: randeg on Apr 3, 2009 5:27 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No one can really blame China for being worried about the safety of their assets with the economy in the US the way it is. Let us just hope that they will not be so insecure as to pull out the plug. The market seems to be rallying so that helps.

Evelyn Guzman
http://www.debtchallenges.com /bonus.html (If you want to visit, just click but if it doesn’t work, copy and paste it onto your browser.)

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Mr. Thill is Right.
Posted by: Urgelt on Apr 3, 2009 5:59 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a well-reasoned article, and I applaud Alternet for posting it.

The value of the dollar is pegged to confidence that dollars can be redeemed for America's goods and services. The problem is that the Fed has gushed dollars since Reagan in order to float the economy upwards on a series of bubbles. That was inflationary (which is not reflected in our inflation indices only because Reagan and subsequent Presidents tampered with the indices).

Despite pretending not to have inflation, people have acted as though they understood intuitively that savings were foolhardy, and debt was smart. Both are true in an inflationary economy, because savings shrivel over time, and debt also shrivels. With inflation, it's better to have cash in hand now and pay it back later.

Government, too, went on a spending binge only briefly interrupted by Clinton, who, whatever else you can say about his policies, seemed to be interested in fiscal responsibility. Now we are not just a debtor nation, not just the worst debtor nation on Earth, but the worst debtor nation in the history of the world.

Our real manufacturing output has all but collapsed. We are a nation of people who sell services to each other - services other nations can obtain more cheaply locally. There's just not much export potential there. And we rely on imports for a vast portion of our goods. Yet a trade surplus is exactly what we need, if we are to redeem all of those dollars in foreign hands and climb back into the black.

If the world's nations decide we can't redeem those dollars, we could see a currency panic. The collapse of international finance. Global depression. As for us, the sudden awareness that nobody wants trillions of dollars will indeed produce hyperinflation. It will be a humbling experience for a once-proud nation, and very, very painful.

This could also set off a round of geopolitical instabilities and risks that are difficult to predict. But difficulty in forecasting never stopped people from trying to be prophets before, so I'll jump in with this specific forecast.

China, with 1.2 billion people and foreign markets shriveling, is going to reach its own crisis point. It needs resources. Climate change is hurting agriculture there, and they need energy. Lots and lots more energy than they have.

To their north lies Siberia - a largely empty expanse of land occupied by a conquerer, Russia. Russia may have its own problems to contend with. It's still an empire and is vulnerable to the same ethnic and nationalist forces which tore apart the USSR. A harsh economic blow might shatter it.

A shattered Russia might be a Russia plunged into civil war. And that might present to China the opportunity to march north and take Siberia. They may even do so with much of the world's blessing - to secure loose nukes.

And there you have the makings of a war on the Asian landmass that could easily become a world war, as other nations evaluate their interests and decide how to respond. (China occupying Siberia would be frankly terrifying to many Asian nations, especially Japan.)

Will any of this happen? I don't know. My point is that we have been playing with fire with our stupid economic games to enrich the already rich.

We have got to reinvent our economy, and fast. We need a trade surplus, like right now. We need a budget surplus, too (that doesn't mean no stimulus spending, by the way).

It would help if we could get the Ayn Rand worshiping neoliberal Wall Street economists the hell away from our financial institutions and government, and put in some folks who know sound economic theory.

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"Contested" Spratly Islands
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey on Apr 3, 2009 6:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It may be worth noting that China's claim to the Spratly Islands is a very good one - which is more than can be said for some of their claims! - so the US might consider scoring a few brownie points with the Chinese by just supporting it.

The other contestants include the Phillippines (former US & Spanish colony - hardly had sovereignty over the Spratlys in, say, 1450 before the Spanish arrived) - Malaysia (similar), Vietnam (very questionable) etc. The Chinese have the strongest claim.

Also I think it's not good that an American ship has a Gilbert & Sullivan style name like "Impeccable." Is there a USNS "Insufferable" too?

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Free trade
Posted by: solrev on Apr 3, 2009 6:09 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We trade our treasuries for their products. US = 25% of WGDP, long live globalism. Without us, China’s cheap labor is worth nothing. Fortunately globalism is history no matter how hard the world leaders try to save it. The planet is just too big to manage or control; nations cooperating are more efficient. A mystic point of view, the wealth creators are going down, and the merchants of the world will weep and morn for who will buy their goods. How does it benefit me to accumulate the treasures of the dimension of the flush? I was created in the creator’s image and I am not a creator of wealth, I am a creator of souls. We can only survive by the sweat of our brow, that was rule number one. That requires cooperating nationalists not wealth creating globalists. Call me mister nationalist. Don’t forget it is the nations that will bow down and usher in the kingdom of God, not the globalists. Don’t you hate us two-dimensional thinking mystics? It just ain’t natural even if it is older than dirt.

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This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
» RE: do not click on that link Posted by: Sister_Lauren
Full circle?
Posted by: windseye on Apr 3, 2009 7:20 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's see now... Brazil is claiming that the value of a country's currency is dependent upon fair and equitable income and asset distribution. This might be a trend in the right direction, a clue as to how the US leadership (corporations and government stooges) might want to evolve like by following many of James Galbraith's suggestions, like suspending the payroll tax until the economy turns around. This option distributes more money into the hands of more people so that the economy is stimulated on the demand side, rather than the top down method of insuring large banks and financial institutions have the lion's share of the money to play with as they wish, including lining the pockets of all the brokers and officers.

Looks like China and other countries recognize the interdependence of all the nations and their tactic appears to be "go slowly in the direction that makes the most sense." So they have and can increase the value of their currency, collect current bond interest, slow down purchasing US debt, maintain exports to us but shift exports to other countries, etc. All these moves are being made and when China or a collection of nations start to make conditions on the purchase of debt ("this bond money CANNOT be used for military enhancements") then we'll really see how to exercise monetary power. When our military cannot raise the money to finance the asserted global empire THEN the pressures from outside will lower our status and consequently decrease the value of the dollar, and decrease our power to influence world events.

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» RE: Full circle? Posted by: Sister_Lauren
So is this a sign that GOD is punishing America for borrowing from China?
Posted by: maxpayne on Apr 3, 2009 7:36 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Either way, we could be facing the scary and death defining truth that has never ever been witnessed before in the history of this nation, going from superpower to slave status. Um, uh, I think GOD is PUNISHING this country, uh huh uh huh !

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The end of the trail is here -----
Posted by: symcokid on Apr 3, 2009 7:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
China is done backing this sordid excuse for an economy based on consumerism and credit. The fact is all they will ever realize in compensation will be US Treasury IOU's, well, you know, "a lick and a promise".

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lobbyists
Posted by: jstepp590 on Apr 3, 2009 8:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Lobbyists caused this financial crisis, hiring over 2300 of the dirtbags getting deregulation enacted so they can raid our economy just like in the great depression.

Lobbyists for foreign countries are turning our foreign policy into a shambles.

Lobbyists for health care industry blocks meaningful reform of our healthcare system.

Lobbyists for automotive industry kept us from raising fuel standards for over thirty years, making us vulnerable economcally and militarily to oil producing countries and oil companies gouging.

Lobbyists for energy sector blocked unleaded gasoline, coal fired plants having to clean up their smokestacks, etc.

We have a huge, unconstitutional and illicit power block in Washington that is screwing our country. It is killing our future and is a direct threat to our government and people. Unless we fix this broken political system we will be very lucky just to have the problems mentioned in this article. World Wars have started for less reasons.

WAKE UP AMERICA!!!!!

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» RE: lobbyists Posted by: james108
Lula
Posted by: jstepp590 on Apr 3, 2009 8:27 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Lula said this after explaining that we got into this mess because of the "irrational behavior of people that are white, blue-eyed, [who] before the crisis looked like they knew everything about economics" but have since "demonstrated that they don't know anything about economics."


We understand economics just fine. It's legalized corruption in Washington that we seem to be having a hard time with. It was the deregulation of consumer protections enacted after the Great Depression (like Glass-Steagall) that got us in this mess. Until that happened we looked like financial wizards.

Deregulation is was and never will be anything but a path to screw America for the benefit of the few. They cannot tell me that the people behind the lobbyists didn't know what would happen, because those laws were there to specifically prevent that type of behavior, even if our politicians were too stupid or ignorant to know it.

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The IMF and World Bank are not there to help people
Posted by: MrX on Apr 3, 2009 8:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They are there to loan money to dictators, and manipulate foreign markets. One way they do that is by creating infrastructure projects that get contracted out to companies like Halliburton. The citizens are left holding the bill, while US companies and their dictator the US backs pocketed all the cash.

Check out these documentaries on how the IMF and World Bank have devastated poor countries and economically enslaved them.

The New Rulers of The World
War by Other Means

Pick a poor country like Mexico and Google that country's name with IMF and World Bank
Five Case Studies on the IMF and World Bank
Press release: World Bank and IMF share in blame for Mexico's crisis

Check out the book Confessions of an Economic Hit Man. (Check out audio preview.)
A book by a man who claims he helped organize the crap all these other links refer too.

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The truth that everyone forgets is
Posted by: popsicle67 on Apr 3, 2009 9:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
China can't afford to back us into a corner any more that we can afford to back North Korea or Iran, or Pakistan into a corner like that. Humans do not tend to go quietly into that dying of the light as it were, and China is frightened(correctly, I might add) that faced with the imminent destruction of their gilded realities there are elements in this country who will lash out by any means necessary to stave off that horror. Even without the fear of some sort of poison pill or scorched earth solution there is always the fear of waking up the beer swilling masses from their endless torpor, eyes reddened with fury over losing all of the creature comforts.
Look at how well they are dealing Tibet and tell me they could handle 300 million people enraged over losing their cable. China will keep buying US debt because we are too scary to fail.

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Troubling times ...
Posted by: stellabloo on Apr 3, 2009 10:10 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The chinese are having trouble keeping down the tibetans?

LOL

LOL (but it hurts) the chinese have no problem keeping down a BILLION people. Have you not heard of "Re-Education" camps - a marshmallow-and-hot-dog euphemism for forced labour and often death from starvation, disease or torture? The chinese economy is fueled by slave labour, make no mistake. No one knows how many millions of chinese languish in labour camps - do you really suppose that organs were illegally harvested from only violent criminals?

Very troubling that chinese repression is associated only with Tibet in the MSM. The amerikan mindset does not really acknowledge the "wacky cult" Falen Gong, which is just the chinese version of buddhism. MSM and the corporate right-wing NEVER acknowledge that there are genuine chinese christians dying for their beliefs in China, right now, today ... They do not acknowledge that the chinese government is at war with its own people and that any deviation, any hint of individual thought is tantamount to treason.

Another thing troubles me: 50 THOUSAND fingers are lost every month in China, by chinese workers working long hours with machines that have no safety devices ... it is quite a pile of fingers ... For some reason we are not being told that many chinese are slaves within their own country - slaves of the government.

What does the future hold for us?

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» RE: Troubling times ... Posted by: jstepp590
» RE: "a better question" Posted by: stellabloo
» RE: Troubling times ... Posted by: mrsanfran
to answer the title question ..
Posted by: Annapurna1 on Apr 3, 2009 11:53 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
as long as the US maintains the capacity to blow china off the map while the russians see no inclination to protect them...(i hate to have to agree w/ robert kagan..but a broken clock is still right twice a day)...

that day is coming..but prolly not until at least mid-century...

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as long as YOUR GOV'T DOES AS ITS TOLD
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on Apr 3, 2009 12:03 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
*duh*

they're ONLY BUYING UP THE US T-BILLS

so they can tell Obama exactly what they want.

...government policies
...trade agreements
...domestic policies
...foreign policies
...using the military & intelligence services as 'thugs' for their interests

the "American Interest" is about to become, 'Whatever China Says to keep paying down the INTEREST on your LOANS"

ITS ALL FOR SALE, BABY!

the LENDER OWNS THE BORROWER.




perspective, people.


Perspective.

The Jeff Farias Show: streams FREE & LIVE Mon-Fri, 6-9pmEST

FREE podcast

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Ordinary Chinese People Do Not Hate Ordinary Americans
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Apr 3, 2009 12:19 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They Just Hate The Psychopaths in Control of China and America

Chinese People Are Absolutely Lovely

Whilst I have Never Been To China or America

China is Way Ahead of The Places I Want To Go To Before I Die

Russia comes Slightly Ahead of China

And Then there is Australia and New Zealand

And almost all Of Africa ans South America

The United States comes slightly above The South Pole of the Places I want to visit before I die

Some of My Wife's Dad's Relations and Friends

Visited a Major Tourist Destination in America

And did what English People Do when on Holiday

They Walked

They had only been walking for less than an hour

And this Police Car turned Up

And shouted at all these 60-80 year olds

"What Are You Doing?"

They replied

"We are Walking"

The Police Replied Through Their Loud Hailer from Inside The Police Car - as if they were Afraid To Get Out

"You Are Insane"

"It is Not Safe To Walk Here"

"No one Walks in America"

They Just Replied

FUCK YOU

And Carried on Walking

Tony

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JoeTom2012
Posted by: jtoman on Apr 3, 2009 12:47 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Am I getting thru. And if so, how many will even see this?

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"a bunch of naked nationalists" - so what are Americans?
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on Apr 3, 2009 12:59 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"After all, the last thing the United States needs from China, a nation bankrolling not just our economic but also our military gamesmanship, is a bunch of naked nationalists reminding us that our empire is in steep decline."
===

puhLEEZE tell me you see the irony in this...

Americans have treated the World like their personal dishrag for decades.

even this ARTICLE is handwringing fear that AMERICANS MIGHT LOSE WORLD DOMINATION!!

yeah, 'cuz you did so MUCH GOOD with it when you had it, right?

come on.

China scares the bejayzuz out of me...

but like Russia's USSR... AMERICANS helped make it a totalitarian state because they WORKED SO HARD TO SCREW AROUND WITH OTHER PEOPLES' COUNTRIES & CULTURES.

WHINSEC?
Balkanization?
Afghanistan & the CIA's opium joy?

How about Iran-Contra?

Columbian drug thuggery & anti-unionization terror squads?

**you're living the misery you inflicted on everyone else because they were NOT Americans, so they were dehumanized & demonized**

& you wonder why we shake our heads in sheer frustration & aggravation... & why other nations start thinking, 'somebody's gotta put a collar on that monster'

The US was borne of bloodshed... & created more upon the World... like an abused child that just couldn't figure out that feeling SAFE, didn't mean doing the same thing to everybody else...

maybe that 'Rule of Law' should have applied to the US for the last 60 years? nah... that was just an excuse, wasn't it?

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» What goes around... Posted by: laoma
China hates America?
Posted by: Rosasharn on Apr 3, 2009 3:45 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They simply don't. This type of inflamatory heading is part of the over simplistic crap that so-called journalists spew to seem 'expert'. It isn't helping to do anything but add more mud to the stew. Drop the racist angle and let's MOVE FORWARD. We are ALL in this together.

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» RE: China hates America? Posted by: Morphizm
» RE: China hates America? Posted by: Rosasharn
China does not hate the US; it made a bargain with the Devil
Posted by: dayahka on Apr 3, 2009 4:19 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
China, the Chinese, do not hate America or Americans. Quite the opposite. While they may have good feelings for various other countries, America is their ideal, their aspiration. I've lived among the people, for years, have you?

You took a word out of context. I can readily say to a friend, "I really hate you," without meaning hate, but slight displeasure or something softer like that. This was the way the word was used by the Chinese.

They used the word "hate" to indicate that they were displeased at having been taken advantage of. They realize that they had made a bargain--we make your stuff, and you buy it. What they had not really realized up until this last year, perhaps, is the depth of hypocrisy in the American--and WTO--systems.

The Chinese were always being criticized for human rights violations, for not having a Western-style rule of law, for being "backward" in their financial institutions, and so on, then it turns out that the US is a great violator of human rights (for what else but that is shown in our utter disregard for human work and toil but the way the banking and related systems simply stole the people's money?), that the US is corrupt through and through, that the so-called legal system is a joke, and that the entire "American way of life" is a lie built on smoke and mirrors (debt and fraud).

No, the Chinese don't hate the US. They have, however, been shamed; they realize that they have been hoodwinked; that they have been defrauded; that they may very likely lose quite a chunk of those trillions they hold in "securities"--and they are angry. But they are also in a bind because they are damned if they stop buying treasuries, and damned if they do. That's why they are slowly moving to a multi-currency world system, using the Yuan (RMB) when trading with a growing number of other countries. They know the US is a devil, a flake, but they have to continue to hold hands with the devil, at least for now, for a while longer. China will not destroy America; America has destroyed itself.

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THE DISASTER SOLUTIONIST AMERICAN MASTER
Posted by: foxxx on Apr 3, 2009 5:06 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
NOTE MY TITLE, NOT ANY OTHER NATION OR PERSON ON EARTH HAS MOST OF THE SOLUTIONS TO DELETE OUR PROBLEMS EXCEPT ME. MY URL: http://www.inventube.com/blog/YOUR MIND IS BLINDED BY HATE. SOONER OR LATER THINGS WILL WORK OUT. AS IS I HAVE THE GLOBAL WARMING SOLUTIONS. YES WE OWE CHINA MONEY. BUT SOONER OR LATER THAT DEBT WILL BE PAID. IN THE MEAN TIME, THE DISASTERS ON EARTH HAVE SOLUTIONS, THE ONLY THING I HAVE STATED AS A PROPOSAL TO CHINA WAS FOR MY EARTHQUAKE SOLUTION= FOR CHINA TO FREE TIBET. ALSO TAIWAN INTERNALLY AND THE SOLUTION WOULD ONLY COST THEM $5 TRILLION, OR $10 TRILLION IN GOLD AND AMERICAN OR LIVE WITH EARTHQUAKES, BUT THE FREE WORLD ONLY $120 BILLION SO I HAVE MONEY TO HIRE ALL COASTAL PEOPLES TO HELP MY GLOBAL TEAMS TO DELETE GLOBAL WARMING. PLUS PUT A SALTWATER CHANNEL IN EACH COUNTRY OF EUROPE FOR MORE FOOD AND FRESHWATER AND THE SAME FOR THE USA, MAYBE RUSSIA AND ASIA TO LOWER ALL THE OCEANS FOR MELTING GLACIERS. AS IS SOME COUNTRIES ARE USEING MY SOLUTIONS. AS FOR CHINA, THEY HAVE MADE PROGRESS BY COMING OUT OF THE DARK AGES AND LEARNING TO BELONG AS A TEAM TO HELP US SAVE ALL SPECIES INCLUDING PEOPLE, IF I AND MY TEAMS DONT DELETE GLOBAL WARMING, THEN ALL SPECIES ON AND IN EARTH BECOME EXTINCT. HAVE A NICE DAY. MIKE

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Guess What?
Posted by: peskyfly1 on Apr 3, 2009 7:57 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Everybody hates you. For your freedom. Yeah, for your freedom.

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Sorry, China
Posted by: hurricane hugo on Apr 3, 2009 8:39 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
you're Ahab lashed to the side of the great white whale.

#@!

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China Hates Us -- How Much Longer Will They Back Our Debt-Ridden Economy?
Posted by: flymulla on Apr 4, 2009 5:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
China Hates Us -- How Much Longer Will They Back Our Debt-Ridden Economy?
Who says China hates anyone. The Chinese love themselves more then any one. That is the mentality of all, is it not? Why do we crack our heads on who loves whom and fret over the few who love more who and us hate us. After G20mLonders hate all very much but will, they shout about this. No.
I thank you
Firozali A. Mulla

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the chinese could have 1001 reasons to hate u
Posted by: denk on Apr 4, 2009 8:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://tinyurl.com/4fkrkz

but they are too forgiving

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very weird
Posted by: denk on Apr 4, 2009 8:03 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
cant seem to post anything except one liners anymore

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At BEST, It Would Mean the End of America as a Superpower
Posted by: Blueprelude on Apr 5, 2009 2:26 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think it is very clear that the American Century is over. Our greed, overweening pride and feeling of entitlement to all the world's valuable resources by hook or crook has undone us. Our politicians sold our prosperity and freedom for the campaign contributions of big financial and corporate combines. The world's nations long stopped looking to us as a beacon of personal liberty and saw us instead as a threat to world peace-which, face it, we are. Our collapse would be one of the best things to happen to the world's nations, which wonder only what we will steal from them next.

We have alienated our friends in the world and chosen money over humane values. I feel no sadness over our inexorable decline. We have done this to ourselves, and we deserve it.

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CHina's Optimal Response to the Fed Printing Dollars
Posted by: rjs0 on Apr 6, 2009 12:48 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
china has already started diversifying away from the dollar by investing in companies with hard assets; Rio Tinto & Oz minerals in Australia, inking oil deals with Russia, Venezuela, & Petrobras, and theyre building infrastructure in 6 African countries & Indonesia to exploit minerals there... and theres a lot of discussion on how they can get out of the dollar trap; check out this five page article by Andy Xie, guest economist to Caijing and board member of Rosetta Stone Advisors...summary: China should gradually convert its reserves to cash for easy investment and shrink its trade surplus in order unteather itself to the dollar.

http://english.caijing.com.cn/2009-04-01/110131506.html

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According to recent Treasury Figures, first quarter '09 sees over $500B in foreign T-Bill purchases.
Posted by: yellow on Apr 7, 2009 3:48 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A surge in foreign central bank T-Bill purchases in the hundreds of billions over the past two quarters has been reported. This is doubtless related to the low risk US trade partners see in putting US dollars in short term US debt. East Asian trade partners such as China see 3 month Treasuries as the best way to "sterilize" dollar inflows so as not to allow an appreciation of the Chinese Yuan which would price Chinese consumer goods exports out of global markets. Protecting Asian export markets in the US is also essential to the Chinese economy. A quick switch from the US dollar to the Euro by US trade partners is not going to occur in the foreseeable future.

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Cheer up. Soon there will be no Chinese left to hate anyone.
Posted by: weslen1 on Apr 11, 2009 5:11 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I just read an article that states that Chinese MEN outnumber Chinese WOMAN by 20 million because of selective abortion. So just leave them alone and soon they will die out. Unless they all hire surrogate "moms" of other races to "carry" their sons for them, they will run out of women and the race will die out. No more "communist" Chinese. And there will be no China left to "trade" with or ship our jobs to.

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syed salamah ali mahdi
Posted by: salamah on Apr 12, 2009 1:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
On a lighter side, I have just remembered a funny story making its rounds after the 1st visit of Nikita Kruschev to the US which I would like to share with AlterNet's subscribers. The then US President took Nikita with him to show (off) him America's one of its kind Super Computer at Langley which could predict future events. The US President punched in his question, "What will the US look like after 20 years?" The Computer went into a frenzy printing out meter after meter of tape and the US President proudly punched in an order to stop. The jealous Nikita then asked the US President's permission to punch the same previous question asking about the Soviet Union after 20 years. The Computer printer clicked once and out came a small print out. Nikita took it in his hand and could not understand what was written there. He then passed it to his Aid. The Aid then whispered, " Comrade, I can't understand it. It's in Chinese!"
On a more serious level, why shouldn't China hate the US? Remember, the American 'gun boat policy' which led to the bombarding of Peking?
Remember the ostracizing of China by the US and US owned United Nations, UN Security Council, World Bank and all other UN agencies after 1949, reducing China to 'pariah status' for almost three decades?
Now the chicken are coming back to roost!

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