COMMENTS: 95
It’s the Pot Economy, Stupid
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It looks like the pot debate just got real. As the nation faces its worst economic crisis in generations, California Assemblyman Tom Ammiano has introduced a trailblazing bill to tax and regulate marijuana like alcohol. Hard on the heels of Michael Phelps’ nationally-resonant bong demo, Ammiano’s gesture is a whole lot more intentional. One hopes it will stir the long-overdue national examination of the financial and human price that we pay for criminalizing pot.
The most widely used illicit drug in the western world, marijuana is a fact of life that’s been sampled by upwards of 100,000,000 Americans. Officially prohibited since 1937, we finally seem on the threshold of a promising moment in our nation’s tortured relationship to the drug. On November 4 alone, Massachusetts decriminalized personal pot use, Michigan became the thirteenth state to allow its medical use, and we elected a president who’s openly admitted to smoking it. National polls and the yawn that greeted the Phelps media frenzy indicate that Americans are reconciled to pot’s largely benign role in our culture.
Nevertheless, the mindless prohibition enforcement machine rolls on. In 2007, over 800,000 Americans were arrested for marijuana-related crimes (nearly 90 percent of them for possession), with upwards of 85,000 of them serving sentences in jail or prison. In the U.S., incredibly there are more arrests for marijuana possession each year than for all violent crimes combined. This astounding human toll from enforcing the ban on marijuana costs taxpayers roughly $8 billion each year. And those wasted resources are further compounded by the total capitulation of the massive pot market to an underground economy to gangsters who laugh all the way to the bank.
Amidst a national economic meltdown, California’s budget turmoil is the worst in the nation. After an excruciating three-month deadlock, the dysfunctional Sacramento legislature closed a $42 billion deficit by slashing aid to the most vulnerable in the state, raising a host of taxes and fees, and kicking the can down the road with billions more in borrowing. Meanwhile, California’s largest cash crop was studiously avoided in the frenzied search for politically-viable revenue sources. California’s marijuana yield is conservatively valued at $13.8 billion annually – nearly double the value of the state’s vegetable and grape crops combined.
Reformers have long complained that massive marijuana revenues are routinely ceded to criminal syndicates. But that’s how prohibition works, until we come to our senses. The U.S. ended alcohol prohibition just over 75 years ago, when its failure could no longer be ignored. That unfortunate social experiment triggered a host of familiar outcomes – mass imprisonment, unchecked violence, official corruption, and routine violation of the law by millions of Americans. But what finally hastened its demise in 1933 was the Depression itself, as public opinion and a progressive new president insisted the waste of resources and potential revenue had to stop.
The sheer scale of our current fiscal misery demands a similar reality check: Marijuana already plays a huge role in the California and national economies. It’s a revenue opportunity we literally can’t afford to ignore any longer. It’s time to end the unjust charade of marijuana prohibition, tax this flourishing multi-billion dollar market, and redirect criminal justice resources to matters of real public safety. Assemblyman Ammiano has done an enormous service by breaking the silence on this common-sense solution.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: aahpat on Mar 3, 2009 8:52 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
IF THEY DON'T HEAR IT FROM US THEY WON'T HEAR IT!
Its more than simply helping state budgets. Marijuana, and all drug legalization, is a major national security issue.
Simply put the cartels would not have the power they have if they did not have the money they have. They have that money ONLY because drugs are illegal.
Prohibition creates a regulatory vacuum without responsible adult supervision in control of the distribution. Addict dealers, gangsters and cartels fill that vacuum and self regulate with violence. The consumer demand for drugs is so lucrative that it has inspired entire industries dedicated to circumventing our best security efforts. No amount of police and militarization of the border will change this economic paradigm.
Getting back to California's AB390. Everyone across the nation has a big part to play in getting AB 390 implemented. It can't happen without a national effort.
In order for AB390 to be implemented without federal interference it will require support from across the nation. That means other states also considering such bills and lobbying their congressional delegations to decriminalize marijuana at the federal level. I have put together this essay for a reform lobby effort in Pennsylvania: Marijuana Legalization in Pennsylvania in 2009
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» What do Medxican drug cartels have to do with marijuana?
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: What do Medxican drug cartels have to do with marijuana?
Posted by: kettleblack
» RE: What do Medxican drug cartels have to do with marijuana?
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: What do Medxican drug cartels have to do with marijuana?
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: What do Medxican drug cartels have to do with marijuana?
Posted by: robert.noll
» Read some newspapers some time
Posted by: aahpat
» RE: believe everything you read
Posted by: kettleblack
» RE: ead some newspapers some time
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: ead some newspapers some time
Posted by: bassey
» RE: ead some newspapers some time
Posted by: jroth420
» RE: ead some newspapers some time
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: ead some newspapers some time[you're being snarky]
Posted by: donl51
» You're obviously not reading the news...
Posted by: donl51
» RE: You're obviously not reading the news...
Posted by: donl51
» RE: You're obviously not reading the news...
Posted by: aahpat
» RE: You're obviously not reading the news...
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: What do Medxican drug cartels have to do with marijuana?
Posted by: jroth420
» RE: What do Medxican drug cartels have to do with marijuana?
Posted by: bornxeyed
» personal note to bornxeyed
Posted by: 2dogarage
» RE: personal note to bornxeyed
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: What do Medxican drug cartels have to do with marijuana?
Posted by: raiders757
» RE: "Illegal" drug money creates the cartels and their violence
Posted by: 2dogarage
» RE: "Illegal" drug money creates the cartels and their violence
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: "Illegal" drug money creates the cartels and their violence
Posted by: donl51
» turkey bags rule ;) n/m
Posted by: 2dogarage
Comments are closed-
Posted by: jway on Mar 3, 2009 9:06 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Until the prohibition is ended these deaths will continue. Have you contacted your legislators today?
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» RE: end the Prohibition ... is the ONLY solution
Posted by: aahpat
Comments are closed-
Posted by: aahpat on Mar 4, 2009 8:21 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Republican Congressman Dana Rohrabacher-CA speaking on the floor of the U.S. House on
THE 75TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE END OF PROHIBITION
The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under a previous order of the House, the gentleman from California (Mr. Rohrabacher) is recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. ROHRABACHER. Madam Speaker, December 5, 1933, December 5, 2007.
So, tomorrow we mark the 75th anniversary of something, and most people will just pass it by and not be aware that tomorrow marks the end of America's great and noble experiment. It is the 75th anniversary of the end of the national prohibition of alcoholic beverages.
With the repeal of prohibition in 1933, that was 75 years ago tomorrow, the United States ended a social planning policy that created organized crime in America, crowded our jails with nonviolent prisoners, corrupted our police, increased urban violence, and destroyed the lives of thousands of victims of unadulterated and poisoned substances, substances which if they were permitted would have been subject to normal market protections of fraud and quality standards. However, during prohibition, these substances which were consumed by the American people often poisoned them and caused them to lose their lives.
Philosopher Santayana told us that those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Have we in Washington learned the lesson of prohibition that ended 75 years ago?
Why did America reject the prohibition of alcoholic beverages? Well, when government attempts to control the peaceful behavior of its citizens, it often sets in motion forces that are more dangerous than the social evil that they are trying to control. Today's war on drugs is perhaps an example.
The war on drugs has resulted in a multimillion dollar network of violent organized crime. The war on drugs has created the deaths by drive-by shootings and turf wars among gangs in our cities. The war on drugs has overcrowded our prisons. More than half of Federal prison space is occupied by nonviolent drug users. The war on drugs has corrupted our police and crowded our courts. We apparently did not learn the lesson of the prohibition of alcoholic beverages.
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» RE: THE 75TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE END OF PROHIBITION
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: THE 75TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE END OF PROHIBITION
Posted by: aahpat
Comments are closed-
Posted by: aahpat on Mar 4, 2009 8:22 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Today, on the campaign trail we hear new calls for prohibitions on cigarettes, on fatty foods, and even more money should be spent, yes, on the war on drugs.
But, as we mark the 75th anniversary of the repeal of prohibition, let us have the courage to learn from the mistakes of the past. Perhaps it would be better for us to focus our energies not on the supply side of drugs just as they were doing with the supply side of alcohol, but instead to focus our efforts on trying to help those people who are addicted to drugs; perhaps to try to help our young people, deter our young people from getting involved in drugs; perhaps to take a whole new approach on this, rather than this monstrous war on drugs that has done nothing but create havoc in our inner cities, making so many young people who have been arrested and their lives destroyed because they will never be able to get a decent job after one arrest being a teenager.
So many people have been hurt by the war on drugs; yet we keep it because we want to supposedly help people. Well, I would suggest that this 75th anniversary of the repeal of prohibition, which was the greatest failure of American social planning in the history of our country, let us try to commit ourselves to help ensure that our young
people are dissuaded and deterred from the use of narcotics.
Let us work with those who are, indeed, addicted to narcotics and help them free themselves from this habit. But let's end this notion that we can try to control the use of narcotics in our country by simply controlling the supply. Simply controlling the supply will not work. We've got to look at the demand side, try to treat people humanely, and use the limited resources that we have in a much more constructive way, rather than just creating more police who are committed to drugs and interdiction and all the rest of the major expenses, court expenses and others that go into a war on drugs rather than an attempt to help people who are susceptible to the use of drugs.
I call the attention of my fellow colleagues to this the 75th anniversary of the repeal of the prohibition of alcoholic beverages.
[Congressional Record: December 4, 2007 (House)]
[Page H14135]
From the Congressional Record Online via GPO Access [wais.access.gpo.gov]
[DOCID:cr04de07-158]
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» Rohrabacher? Wow
Posted by: scurvybro
» Rohrabacher could be a vital lynchpin now
Posted by: aahpat
» RE: ohrabacher could be a vital lynchpin now
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: ohrabacher could be a vital lynchpin now
Posted by: bornxeyed
» You get elected and do better
Posted by: aahpat
» RE: ohrabacher? ow
Posted by: kettleblack
» RE: I have to apologize for the rant
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: It's been a year and 3 months
Posted by: kettleblack
» So hold his feet to the fire, NOW!
Posted by: aahpat
» RE: THE 75TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE END OF PROHIBITION
Posted by: anna banana
» The REAL reason FDR was re-elected 3 times
Posted by: 2dogarage
» the US civil war had 600,000 casulities...
Posted by: Bearzerker
Comments are closed-
Posted by: tokerdesigner on Mar 4, 2009 5:26 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. First, this is grossly discriminatory; in the highest tax states the total tax on two (2) packs of hot-burning overdose genocide nicotine cigarets is less than $10. Ammiano had to do that to have any chance against diehard bigots. However:
2. It's still a good deal! Like in Obama's Chicago, you have to lay out some baksheesh (not to be confused with the good stuff that starts with an h).
Then get rid of the hot-burning overdose "joint", an abject surrender to the "style" dictated by Big Tobackgo with its $13 BIL. cigaret advertising budget. Get or make a screened single-toke utensil (crater diameter: 1/4"; screen at 3/16" depth) offering 25-mg. single servings, with a long flexible drawtube so you can see how things are proceeding in the crater while you draw slow (like a hatha yogi) from the remote mouthpiece. (See Wikipedia:Cannabis smoking for a dozen ways to make a single-toke piece or long-stemmed one-hitter.)
2. Sift your herb through 1/16" mesh screening to get a smooth-burning uniform particle size!! Then point the bizness end down into your pot of herb, suck in an amount flush with the top, and you have about 25 mg. Hold lighter (no matches) far enough away that it takes ten seconds sucking to even get a little part started burning("cornering"). "Suck slow; don't blow; orange glow; burn low." Breathe in and out of a breathbonnet (plastic bag) 30 times.
In this way you may get 900 single tokes out of an ounce.
3. Now assume it is post-Ammiano: the bill has passed, and the price has crashed to $10 an ounce! With $50 tax, $60 an ounce. The politicians are paid off and happy; no more fear of cops! 900 tokes for $60 will be 6.66 cents a toke. With a Qur'an-compliant moderation regimen of ten tokes every two days, or 1826 a year, that's about $120 (compare what a pack-a-day nicotine addict pays).
4. Legalizing cannabis herb will remove all pretexts for harrassing you for owning a utensil-- or eventually a vaporizer, or an E-CIGARETTE with cartridges loaded with THC instead of nicotine.
5. Oh, I forgot-- with those ten (10) plants you'll have thousands of tokes without paying a penny... get on board, support Ammiano!!
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» RE: Go for it: the Ammiano economics
Posted by: richholland
» RE: Go for it: the Ammiano economics
Posted by: akbirdwm
» RE: I am not impressed
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Re: Cannabis Sanctuary
Posted by: akbirdwm
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Sparks56 on Mar 5, 2009 2:10 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Market Value
Posted by: richholland
» RE: Market Value
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» bottle water!!
Posted by: P~wog
» RE: bottle water!!
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: bottle water!!
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: bottle water!!
Posted by: bornxeyed
» These things are better left to the masters ;)
Posted by: 2dogarage
» RE: Market Value -- some would
Posted by: aahpat
» tobacco is not a house plant
Posted by: billwald
» RE: tobacco is not a house plant
Posted by: nikolai
» RE: Market Value -- some would
Posted by: Sparks56
» Are pot smokers less lazy than ciggybutt smokers?
Posted by: billwald
» maybe you should think about the potential HEMP markets...
Posted by: undrgrndgirl
Comments are closed-
Posted by: robertmc on Mar 5, 2009 6:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
HAH! Since when have we done anything smart in the last 30+ years? We invaded the wrong county, ferchrissakes. What does it say about our country when we give the proceeds from our biggest cash crop to criminals?
I'll keep on fighting for legalization (have been for 30+ years) but as far as it actually happening- I'll believe it when I see it. I can already hear the whining: "Oh noes...what abouts the children?"
I am thinking about the children....all 800,000 of them that are going to be arrested when they get older and the tens of thousands that will learn what America is really about in a violent, overcrowded jail full of real criminals.
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» Well said..
Posted by: aahpat
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Posted by: John H on Mar 5, 2009 6:46 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here is the problem. Remember what corporate Amerca did with cigarettes? The whole idea was to get'em hooked, put whatever chemical in them you have to just get'em hooked. If pot is made legal cigarette companies as well as others will immediately take pot to the nth degree. The will produce the most powerful pot they can and insert other chemicals into it to insure you keep coming back.
It wouldn't take long for them to challenge the very nature of what pot is or isn't. My point is this. Corporations are inherently evil and if you allow them into the pot business things will go very bad very quickly. Instead of just getting a little high people will be getting blasted on new strains of pot which will produce effects more akin to LSD than grass. You might think "WooHoo...bring it on" but what about younger people who don't have the experience or restraint needed to handle that?
Don't you think that would be a dream come true for a government bent on controlling and subduing a population?
Instead, make it legal to grow and own but illegal to sell. Keep those evil bastards out of it.
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» RE: Corporate Pot
Posted by: kettleblack
» RE: Corporate Pot
Posted by: inverse_agonist
» RE: "one-hit szchiidtt"
Posted by: tokerdesigner
Comments are closed-
Posted by: picket on Mar 5, 2009 6:50 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...Commonly used by law enforcement to detect MJ use. Read about it at Marijuana Policy Project.
http://www.mpp.org/
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Posted by: aahpat on Mar 5, 2009 7:21 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A lot of people who would directly benefit from the laws changes that tom Ammiano is proposing are looking for any and every excuse to deny the efforts and arguments in support of the effort.
Grow up people. The rest of us are working to reform the laws while you make it harder by ragging on every nuance and denying reality.
Reading this forum thread I can understand why the drug war has continued for almost four decades. The victims are only interested in attacking and back-biting the people who are trying and help them.
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» RE: Paranoid, ignorant and childish
Posted by: SirScud
» Threatening censorship and parsing spelling
Posted by: aahpat
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Posted by: maxpayne on Mar 5, 2009 7:45 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: The market for Cannabis will have no choice but to come as the upcoming petrocollapse comes.
Posted by: bornxeyed
» I think that population decrease is on the horizon already.
Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield
Comments are closed-
Posted by: littlepitcher on Mar 5, 2009 10:47 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Typical bought-off Mafioso pols. The state may go bankrupt, but the lege will have offshore or south-of-the-border accounts stuffed with retirement money the SEC or MF Madoff can't touch.
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Posted by: undrgrndgirl on Mar 5, 2009 11:14 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: jroth420 on Mar 5, 2009 11:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Also, I can't believe that when someone proposes legalizing herb, not decriminalizing, but legalizing, the only thing that people want to comment about is the amount of the tax! $50 bucks an ounce is a small price to pay to finally be left alone and not have to look over your shoulder anymore. But that is not good enough for anyone apparently! Baby steps people! Let's get it legalized and show the naysayers that it can work and won't "destroy the fabric of society" and then we can work on renegotiating the taxes on it.
Some people will just never be happy I guess.
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Posted by: rankfive on Mar 5, 2009 2:19 PM
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PH
Privacy Center
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» I've heard your "Privacy Center" link is infected
Posted by: 2dogarage
» RE: POt stupid? No way dude.
Posted by: eeuropean2000
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Posted by: nzo on Mar 5, 2009 2:22 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The crime, the immorality, the supposed harm, the medical research, the endless debate, the pro-marijuana lobby: NONE of this stuff really matters. What matters, and what will bring about a law change is (you guessed it) MONEY!
How much money these racketeers can make off marijuana to fill their government coffers.
They are such hypocrites.
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Posted by: Dr T on Mar 5, 2009 3:00 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Colorado almost did something like this two years ago but the referendum needed to pass twice and it failed the second time, partially due to Federal financing and advertising from the drug czar office, something which is illegal.
In 1975, the Alaska Supreme court rejected the State's petition to prohibit marijuana because the state couldn't prove that it was a harmful substance. Therefore, in Alaska it has been legal to grow marijuana on private property for private consumption for over three decades.
And for those with a strong moral/religious bias against this, ask yourself: Would God put an evil plant on this planet?
Finally, as an addiction psychiatrist, their are many public health benefits and few costs from legalizing and regulating marijuana.
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» RE: Legaize marijuana
Posted by: akbirdwm
» RE: Legaize marijuana
Posted by: nikolai
» Decriminalization Bill in Congress in late April
Posted by: aahpat
» RE: Legaize marijuana
Posted by: eeuropean2000
Comments are closed-
Posted by: aahpat on Mar 7, 2009 6:55 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are hearings in congress this coming week on militarizing and escalating the drug war on the Mexican border. I have provided as much information as I can get together on it.
"Beating A Crescendo of Drug 'War Drums' in Congress"
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» RE: Obama & Democrats escalating and militarizing border
Posted by: eeuropean2000
» Silly compartmentalization
Posted by: aahpat
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Opinionator on Mar 7, 2009 9:50 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: seaseal on Mar 8, 2009 1:01 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Generally, when this happens, I follow the money. Who gets the most: well the military gets a lot. Military contractors get alot (billions to Mexico in aid so they can buy our guns, munitions, and aircraft). Prisons reap billions (google prison rates for drug crimes). Corporations selling via *aid to Mexico* gain billions. Ag multis that grow crops like strawberries and broccoli in Mexico get $$$.
And they say the problem is bringing pot to the U.S.
This is a crafty campaign to increase military presence in the U.S. against U.S. citizens (hearings March 25 on militarizing the U.S./ Mexico border).
A la Naomi Kline's Shock Doctrine, we are given a scenario of Al Queda-type Mexican drug lords invading the U.S. to grow and sell marijuana--so dangerous--and therefore we must act quickly.
In fact, these militarizations have been in the planning for some time.
Solution: take out of the picture all those who would receive money under this plan--the U.S. military and its contractors, the private prison industry, Halliburton's contract to build border facilities, U.S. corporations.
Decriminalize the drugs cited. This would take out any profit the so-called Mexican Cartels have. They would deflate like a day-old balloon. Problem solved.
As with the end of Prohibition, the crime cartels disappeared, alcohol use actually dropped, prices dropped, tax income rose, regulation prevented dangerous substances used to make illegal alcohol, and on and on.
Decriminalize the problem, move towards negotiated settlements of problems both in the U.S. and in Mexico.
We created much of this problem by making areas ripe for corporate greed. The U.S. pressured Mexico to remove community lands from local agriculture so strawberries could be grown for export.
We can solve these problems. One way would be by returning traditional community ejido lands to the locals. This would reduce growing high-profit crops, and also stem the flow of Mexicans streaming to the U.S. to support their families.
Write your senators about the militarization hearings on March 25. Educate yourselves. Act now.
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Posted by: digoo on Mar 19, 2009 8:29 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
__________________________
DVD Converter for MAC
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Posted by: aahpat on Mar 3, 2009 8:52 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
IF THEY DON'T HEAR IT FROM US THEY WON'T HEAR IT!
Its more than simply helping state budgets. Marijuana, and all drug legalization, is a major national security issue.
Simply put the cartels would not have the power they have if they did not have the money they have. They have that money ONLY because drugs are illegal.
Prohibition creates a regulatory vacuum without responsible adult supervision in control of the distribution. Addict dealers, gangsters and cartels fill that vacuum and self regulate with violence. The consumer demand for drugs is so lucrative that it has inspired entire industries dedicated to circumventing our best security efforts. No amount of police and militarization of the border will change this economic paradigm.
Getting back to California's AB390. Everyone across the nation has a big part to play in getting AB 390 implemented. It can't happen without a national effort.
In order for AB390 to be implemented without federal interference it will require support from across the nation. That means other states also considering such bills and lobbying their congressional delegations to decriminalize marijuana at the federal level. I have put together this essay for a reform lobby effort in Pennsylvania: Marijuana Legalization in Pennsylvania in 2009
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» What do Medxican drug cartels have to do with marijuana?
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: What do Medxican drug cartels have to do with marijuana?
Posted by: kettleblack
» RE: What do Medxican drug cartels have to do with marijuana?
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: What do Medxican drug cartels have to do with marijuana?
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: What do Medxican drug cartels have to do with marijuana?
Posted by: robert.noll
» Read some newspapers some time
Posted by: aahpat
» RE: believe everything you read
Posted by: kettleblack
» RE: ead some newspapers some time
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: ead some newspapers some time
Posted by: bassey
» RE: ead some newspapers some time
Posted by: jroth420
» RE: ead some newspapers some time
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: ead some newspapers some time[you're being snarky]
Posted by: donl51
» You're obviously not reading the news...
Posted by: donl51
» RE: You're obviously not reading the news...
Posted by: donl51
» RE: You're obviously not reading the news...
Posted by: aahpat
» RE: You're obviously not reading the news...
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: What do Medxican drug cartels have to do with marijuana?
Posted by: jroth420
» RE: What do Medxican drug cartels have to do with marijuana?
Posted by: bornxeyed
» personal note to bornxeyed
Posted by: 2dogarage
» RE: personal note to bornxeyed
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: What do Medxican drug cartels have to do with marijuana?
Posted by: raiders757
» RE: "Illegal" drug money creates the cartels and their violence
Posted by: 2dogarage
» RE: "Illegal" drug money creates the cartels and their violence
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: "Illegal" drug money creates the cartels and their violence
Posted by: donl51
» turkey bags rule ;) n/m
Posted by: 2dogarage
Comments are closed-
Posted by: jway on Mar 3, 2009 9:06 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Until the prohibition is ended these deaths will continue. Have you contacted your legislators today?
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» RE: end the Prohibition ... is the ONLY solution
Posted by: aahpat
Comments are closed-
Posted by: aahpat on Mar 4, 2009 8:21 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Republican Congressman Dana Rohrabacher-CA speaking on the floor of the U.S. House on
THE 75TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE END OF PROHIBITION
The SPEAKER pro tempore. Under a previous order of the House, the gentleman from California (Mr. Rohrabacher) is recognized for 5 minutes.
Mr. ROHRABACHER. Madam Speaker, December 5, 1933, December 5, 2007.
So, tomorrow we mark the 75th anniversary of something, and most people will just pass it by and not be aware that tomorrow marks the end of America's great and noble experiment. It is the 75th anniversary of the end of the national prohibition of alcoholic beverages.
With the repeal of prohibition in 1933, that was 75 years ago tomorrow, the United States ended a social planning policy that created organized crime in America, crowded our jails with nonviolent prisoners, corrupted our police, increased urban violence, and destroyed the lives of thousands of victims of unadulterated and poisoned substances, substances which if they were permitted would have been subject to normal market protections of fraud and quality standards. However, during prohibition, these substances which were consumed by the American people often poisoned them and caused them to lose their lives.
Philosopher Santayana told us that those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it. Have we in Washington learned the lesson of prohibition that ended 75 years ago?
Why did America reject the prohibition of alcoholic beverages? Well, when government attempts to control the peaceful behavior of its citizens, it often sets in motion forces that are more dangerous than the social evil that they are trying to control. Today's war on drugs is perhaps an example.
The war on drugs has resulted in a multimillion dollar network of violent organized crime. The war on drugs has created the deaths by drive-by shootings and turf wars among gangs in our cities. The war on drugs has overcrowded our prisons. More than half of Federal prison space is occupied by nonviolent drug users. The war on drugs has corrupted our police and crowded our courts. We apparently did not learn the lesson of the prohibition of alcoholic beverages.
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» RE: THE 75TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE END OF PROHIBITION
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: THE 75TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE END OF PROHIBITION
Posted by: aahpat
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Posted by: aahpat on Mar 4, 2009 8:22 AM
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Today, on the campaign trail we hear new calls for prohibitions on cigarettes, on fatty foods, and even more money should be spent, yes, on the war on drugs.
But, as we mark the 75th anniversary of the repeal of prohibition, let us have the courage to learn from the mistakes of the past. Perhaps it would be better for us to focus our energies not on the supply side of drugs just as they were doing with the supply side of alcohol, but instead to focus our efforts on trying to help those people who are addicted to drugs; perhaps to try to help our young people, deter our young people from getting involved in drugs; perhaps to take a whole new approach on this, rather than this monstrous war on drugs that has done nothing but create havoc in our inner cities, making so many young people who have been arrested and their lives destroyed because they will never be able to get a decent job after one arrest being a teenager.
So many people have been hurt by the war on drugs; yet we keep it because we want to supposedly help people. Well, I would suggest that this 75th anniversary of the repeal of prohibition, which was the greatest failure of American social planning in the history of our country, let us try to commit ourselves to help ensure that our young
people are dissuaded and deterred from the use of narcotics.
Let us work with those who are, indeed, addicted to narcotics and help them free themselves from this habit. But let's end this notion that we can try to control the use of narcotics in our country by simply controlling the supply. Simply controlling the supply will not work. We've got to look at the demand side, try to treat people humanely, and use the limited resources that we have in a much more constructive way, rather than just creating more police who are committed to drugs and interdiction and all the rest of the major expenses, court expenses and others that go into a war on drugs rather than an attempt to help people who are susceptible to the use of drugs.
I call the attention of my fellow colleagues to this the 75th anniversary of the repeal of the prohibition of alcoholic beverages.
[Congressional Record: December 4, 2007 (House)]
[Page H14135]
From the Congressional Record Online via GPO Access [wais.access.gpo.gov]
[DOCID:cr04de07-158]
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» Rohrabacher? Wow
Posted by: scurvybro
» Rohrabacher could be a vital lynchpin now
Posted by: aahpat
» RE: ohrabacher could be a vital lynchpin now
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: ohrabacher could be a vital lynchpin now
Posted by: bornxeyed
» You get elected and do better
Posted by: aahpat
» RE: ohrabacher? ow
Posted by: kettleblack
» RE: I have to apologize for the rant
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: It's been a year and 3 months
Posted by: kettleblack
» So hold his feet to the fire, NOW!
Posted by: aahpat
» RE: THE 75TH ANNIVERSARY OF THE END OF PROHIBITION
Posted by: anna banana
» The REAL reason FDR was re-elected 3 times
Posted by: 2dogarage
» the US civil war had 600,000 casulities...
Posted by: Bearzerker
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Posted by: tokerdesigner on Mar 4, 2009 5:26 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. First, this is grossly discriminatory; in the highest tax states the total tax on two (2) packs of hot-burning overdose genocide nicotine cigarets is less than $10. Ammiano had to do that to have any chance against diehard bigots. However:
2. It's still a good deal! Like in Obama's Chicago, you have to lay out some baksheesh (not to be confused with the good stuff that starts with an h).
Then get rid of the hot-burning overdose "joint", an abject surrender to the "style" dictated by Big Tobackgo with its $13 BIL. cigaret advertising budget. Get or make a screened single-toke utensil (crater diameter: 1/4"; screen at 3/16" depth) offering 25-mg. single servings, with a long flexible drawtube so you can see how things are proceeding in the crater while you draw slow (like a hatha yogi) from the remote mouthpiece. (See Wikipedia:Cannabis smoking for a dozen ways to make a single-toke piece or long-stemmed one-hitter.)
2. Sift your herb through 1/16" mesh screening to get a smooth-burning uniform particle size!! Then point the bizness end down into your pot of herb, suck in an amount flush with the top, and you have about 25 mg. Hold lighter (no matches) far enough away that it takes ten seconds sucking to even get a little part started burning("cornering"). "Suck slow; don't blow; orange glow; burn low." Breathe in and out of a breathbonnet (plastic bag) 30 times.
In this way you may get 900 single tokes out of an ounce.
3. Now assume it is post-Ammiano: the bill has passed, and the price has crashed to $10 an ounce! With $50 tax, $60 an ounce. The politicians are paid off and happy; no more fear of cops! 900 tokes for $60 will be 6.66 cents a toke. With a Qur'an-compliant moderation regimen of ten tokes every two days, or 1826 a year, that's about $120 (compare what a pack-a-day nicotine addict pays).
4. Legalizing cannabis herb will remove all pretexts for harrassing you for owning a utensil-- or eventually a vaporizer, or an E-CIGARETTE with cartridges loaded with THC instead of nicotine.
5. Oh, I forgot-- with those ten (10) plants you'll have thousands of tokes without paying a penny... get on board, support Ammiano!!
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» RE: Go for it: the Ammiano economics
Posted by: richholland
» RE: Go for it: the Ammiano economics
Posted by: akbirdwm
» RE: I am not impressed
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Re: Cannabis Sanctuary
Posted by: akbirdwm
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Sparks56 on Mar 5, 2009 2:10 AM
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» RE: Market Value
Posted by: richholland
» RE: Market Value
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» bottle water!!
Posted by: P~wog
» RE: bottle water!!
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: bottle water!!
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: bottle water!!
Posted by: bornxeyed
» These things are better left to the masters ;)
Posted by: 2dogarage
» RE: Market Value -- some would
Posted by: aahpat
» tobacco is not a house plant
Posted by: billwald
» RE: tobacco is not a house plant
Posted by: nikolai
» RE: Market Value -- some would
Posted by: Sparks56
» Are pot smokers less lazy than ciggybutt smokers?
Posted by: billwald
» maybe you should think about the potential HEMP markets...
Posted by: undrgrndgirl
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Posted by: robertmc on Mar 5, 2009 6:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
HAH! Since when have we done anything smart in the last 30+ years? We invaded the wrong county, ferchrissakes. What does it say about our country when we give the proceeds from our biggest cash crop to criminals?
I'll keep on fighting for legalization (have been for 30+ years) but as far as it actually happening- I'll believe it when I see it. I can already hear the whining: "Oh noes...what abouts the children?"
I am thinking about the children....all 800,000 of them that are going to be arrested when they get older and the tens of thousands that will learn what America is really about in a violent, overcrowded jail full of real criminals.
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» Well said..
Posted by: aahpat
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Posted by: John H on Mar 5, 2009 6:46 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here is the problem. Remember what corporate Amerca did with cigarettes? The whole idea was to get'em hooked, put whatever chemical in them you have to just get'em hooked. If pot is made legal cigarette companies as well as others will immediately take pot to the nth degree. The will produce the most powerful pot they can and insert other chemicals into it to insure you keep coming back.
It wouldn't take long for them to challenge the very nature of what pot is or isn't. My point is this. Corporations are inherently evil and if you allow them into the pot business things will go very bad very quickly. Instead of just getting a little high people will be getting blasted on new strains of pot which will produce effects more akin to LSD than grass. You might think "WooHoo...bring it on" but what about younger people who don't have the experience or restraint needed to handle that?
Don't you think that would be a dream come true for a government bent on controlling and subduing a population?
Instead, make it legal to grow and own but illegal to sell. Keep those evil bastards out of it.
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» RE: Corporate Pot
Posted by: kettleblack
» RE: Corporate Pot
Posted by: inverse_agonist
» RE: "one-hit szchiidtt"
Posted by: tokerdesigner
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Posted by: picket on Mar 5, 2009 6:50 AM
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...Commonly used by law enforcement to detect MJ use. Read about it at Marijuana Policy Project.
http://www.mpp.org/
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Posted by: aahpat on Mar 5, 2009 7:21 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A lot of people who would directly benefit from the laws changes that tom Ammiano is proposing are looking for any and every excuse to deny the efforts and arguments in support of the effort.
Grow up people. The rest of us are working to reform the laws while you make it harder by ragging on every nuance and denying reality.
Reading this forum thread I can understand why the drug war has continued for almost four decades. The victims are only interested in attacking and back-biting the people who are trying and help them.
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» RE: Paranoid, ignorant and childish
Posted by: SirScud
» Threatening censorship and parsing spelling
Posted by: aahpat
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Posted by: maxpayne on Mar 5, 2009 7:45 AM
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» RE: The market for Cannabis will have no choice but to come as the upcoming petrocollapse comes.
Posted by: bornxeyed
» I think that population decrease is on the horizon already.
Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield
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Posted by: littlepitcher on Mar 5, 2009 10:47 AM
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Typical bought-off Mafioso pols. The state may go bankrupt, but the lege will have offshore or south-of-the-border accounts stuffed with retirement money the SEC or MF Madoff can't touch.
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Posted by: undrgrndgirl on Mar 5, 2009 11:14 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: jroth420 on Mar 5, 2009 11:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Also, I can't believe that when someone proposes legalizing herb, not decriminalizing, but legalizing, the only thing that people want to comment about is the amount of the tax! $50 bucks an ounce is a small price to pay to finally be left alone and not have to look over your shoulder anymore. But that is not good enough for anyone apparently! Baby steps people! Let's get it legalized and show the naysayers that it can work and won't "destroy the fabric of society" and then we can work on renegotiating the taxes on it.
Some people will just never be happy I guess.
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Posted by: rankfive on Mar 5, 2009 2:19 PM
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PH
Privacy Center
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» I've heard your "Privacy Center" link is infected
Posted by: 2dogarage
» RE: POt stupid? No way dude.
Posted by: eeuropean2000
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Posted by: nzo on Mar 5, 2009 2:22 PM
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The crime, the immorality, the supposed harm, the medical research, the endless debate, the pro-marijuana lobby: NONE of this stuff really matters. What matters, and what will bring about a law change is (you guessed it) MONEY!
How much money these racketeers can make off marijuana to fill their government coffers.
They are such hypocrites.
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Posted by: Dr T on Mar 5, 2009 3:00 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Colorado almost did something like this two years ago but the referendum needed to pass twice and it failed the second time, partially due to Federal financing and advertising from the drug czar office, something which is illegal.
In 1975, the Alaska Supreme court rejected the State's petition to prohibit marijuana because the state couldn't prove that it was a harmful substance. Therefore, in Alaska it has been legal to grow marijuana on private property for private consumption for over three decades.
And for those with a strong moral/religious bias against this, ask yourself: Would God put an evil plant on this planet?
Finally, as an addiction psychiatrist, their are many public health benefits and few costs from legalizing and regulating marijuana.
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» RE: Legaize marijuana
Posted by: akbirdwm
» RE: Legaize marijuana
Posted by: nikolai
» Decriminalization Bill in Congress in late April
Posted by: aahpat
» RE: Legaize marijuana
Posted by: eeuropean2000
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Posted by: aahpat on Mar 7, 2009 6:55 PM
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There are hearings in congress this coming week on militarizing and escalating the drug war on the Mexican border. I have provided as much information as I can get together on it.
"Beating A Crescendo of Drug 'War Drums' in Congress"
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» RE: Obama & Democrats escalating and militarizing border
Posted by: eeuropean2000
» Silly compartmentalization
Posted by: aahpat
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Posted by: Opinionator on Mar 7, 2009 9:50 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: seaseal on Mar 8, 2009 1:01 PM
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Generally, when this happens, I follow the money. Who gets the most: well the military gets a lot. Military contractors get alot (billions to Mexico in aid so they can buy our guns, munitions, and aircraft). Prisons reap billions (google prison rates for drug crimes). Corporations selling via *aid to Mexico* gain billions. Ag multis that grow crops like strawberries and broccoli in Mexico get $$$.
And they say the problem is bringing pot to the U.S.
This is a crafty campaign to increase military presence in the U.S. against U.S. citizens (hearings March 25 on militarizing the U.S./ Mexico border).
A la Naomi Kline's Shock Doctrine, we are given a scenario of Al Queda-type Mexican drug lords invading the U.S. to grow and sell marijuana--so dangerous--and therefore we must act quickly.
In fact, these militarizations have been in the planning for some time.
Solution: take out of the picture all those who would receive money under this plan--the U.S. military and its contractors, the private prison industry, Halliburton's contract to build border facilities, U.S. corporations.
Decriminalize the drugs cited. This would take out any profit the so-called Mexican Cartels have. They would deflate like a day-old balloon. Problem solved.
As with the end of Prohibition, the crime cartels disappeared, alcohol use actually dropped, prices dropped, tax income rose, regulation prevented dangerous substances used to make illegal alcohol, and on and on.
Decriminalize the problem, move towards negotiated settlements of problems both in the U.S. and in Mexico.
We created much of this problem by making areas ripe for corporate greed. The U.S. pressured Mexico to remove community lands from local agriculture so strawberries could be grown for export.
We can solve these problems. One way would be by returning traditional community ejido lands to the locals. This would reduce growing high-profit crops, and also stem the flow of Mexicans streaming to the U.S. to support their families.
Write your senators about the militarization hearings on March 25. Educate yourselves. Act now.
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Posted by: digoo on Mar 19, 2009 8:29 PM
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