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Domestic Violence: "Why Doesn't She Leave?" Is the Wrong Question to Ask About Rihanna

By Amanda Marcotte, Pandagon. Posted March 4, 2009.


Abusers often taunt their victims with just this question, because they grasp the psychological power and the self-esteem erosion behind it.

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Confession: Every time I see a feminist write about the reasons women don't leave abusers, and they focus to financial constraints and the physical ability to leave to the exclusion of all other factors, I flinch.  I flinch, though I've been guilty of this myself.  It's just such an easy, obvious way to get sympathy for women who have very little sympathy in the public, who tend to share 51-100% of the blame for the beatings that they avoid and wish deeply didn't happen.  You want to get the question off, "Why doesn't she leave?" and onto the one that people hate asking, "Why does he beat her?", and focusing on the most helpless of cases is the quickest, easiest way to do that. But what it does, I realize, is separates "good" victims who deserve our sympathy from "bad" victims who deserve to carry 51-100% of the blame.  You see the same effect when it comes to rape -- the public offers its sympathy to the woman who was wearing a potato sack and a stranger jumps out of the bushes, and we do so in part so we can blame other women for raping themselves by being, and you know the drill, sexually active before, wearing that, stupid enough to drink around men, willing to go out with men she should have known were rapists -- name your "date rape/gray rape" cliches that take the heat off calling it what it is, which is rape.

Which is why a pit formed in my stomach when photos were leaked showing -- to no great surprise to anyone who understands the situation -- that Rihanna was at a party with Chris Brown, and that they're probably back together.  She's going straight into the "bad victim" category, of course, because she hasn't been covered sufficiently by feminist explanations of why women don't leave.  She has the money to leave, and they don't have the intricate ties that make it hard to leave, like children.  And then there's the hints that she "did something" to provoke him -- we prefer our battering victims to just lay down and take it and never do a single thing in self-defense.  In fact, if you are ever battered and call the police, be very careful to only use fleeing as a form of self-defense.  The law is very eager to see domestic violence not for what it is, but just as a normal fight that got out of control, and so if you even slap a guy off you, you're probably going to jail and getting charged, too.

It was questioned in comments here yesterday whether or not feminists are just making shit up when we say that men who beat and rape women can expect a large amount of social support, often more than their victims.  That fact that feminists and sometimes even law enforcement pushes hard back against the perp-coddling aspects of our society does confuse the issue.  We've convinced people, and therefore we can pretend the people who go on and on about how she was asking for it and he's such a nice guy, etc. are marginalized, right?  Wrong -- they're, it turns out, Kanye West.  And, as someone who has experienced this first hand can testify, even if you can get people to agree that what the guy did to you was unforgiveable so that they shun him -- which alone is nearly impossible -- people treat you like a leper.  Many a woman who has pressed charges for rape or domestic violence, or even just come out about it, saw her friends slowly drift away, even if they mean to care.  More often, though, if the man who hurt you is in your family and social circle, people are going to rapidly "not take sides", which is essentially taking his side, because if and when you do choose to fight back or leave him, that will be viewed as you deliberately removing yourself from that particular social circle.  So, without taking his side, they can take his side through passively waiting you out. In fact, the Kanye West thing is a classic example of this danger -- he initially sided with Rihanna, and now he's asking for sympathy for Chris Brown, and there's not much wiggle room after that.  You really can't take both sides in these situations, though I fully understand why he'd want to.


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See more stories tagged with: gender, women, sexism, abuse, men, domestic violence

Amanda Marcotte co-writes the popular blog Pandagon. She is the author of It's a Jungle Out There: The Feminist Survival Guide to Politically Inhospitable Environments.

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Wrong.
Posted by: neocheat on Mar 4, 2009 11:18 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe she saw what I'm seeing, which is this passively (and actively) taking of his side in celebrity circles, and she realized that her career, which depends on socializing with these people, would suffer.

I don't think I've read anything more ridiculous on AlterNet. What proof do you have that HER career would suffer? None? Thought so.

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Fantastic, thank you
Posted by: LL Moore on Mar 4, 2009 12:08 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is great, and I am so glad you wrote and posted it.

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thank you for making these necessary distinctions
Posted by: sifupeter on Mar 4, 2009 1:47 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Such as this one:

"...get the question off, "Why doesn't she leave?" and onto the one that people hate asking, "Why does he beat her?""

There are no good or bad victims, the perpetrator bears the responsibility for the act. The concept of personal responsibility is easily carried too far to try to cast victims as responsible for someone else's criminal behavior, and the personal responsibility of the perp is not addressed equally because of all the preferential social biases.

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Two Kinds Of Men
Posted by: QQOblivion on Mar 4, 2009 2:06 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why does a man beat his woman?

Answer: There are just two kinds of (straight) men:
Those who beat women,
and those who only beat themselves.

At least it seems that way, at least to many of those men who fear losing their women.

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Here's another quiestion you shoudl ask
Posted by: bornxeyed on Mar 6, 2009 1:51 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And perhaps you'll find the answer to why he might beat her.

Why do some women find it so easy to leave men who don't beat them?

Maybe that answers BOTH of your questions?

Just a thought. I don't advocate beating anyone and never will advocate it or do it unless I had to save my life or limb.

Thank you for you consideration.

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Sorry, this comment has been removed from the system.
What ever happened to that dreadred R word ... Responsibility?
Posted by: Smartcookie on Mar 6, 2009 1:58 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm sorry but if someone is getting hit and stays, they have serious problems.

Imagine going back to the same criminal that mugged you to get mugged again, no one would bring up silly red herring psycho-babble arguments.

Certainly some women stay, but it's their choice to stay because they've lost touch with reality. There's all sorts of ways to get out of such a situation.

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I wish everyone
Posted by: seaoftears on Mar 6, 2009 2:22 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
would just get a life! Yes, it was wrong for Chris to hit her. But, if they stay together, or split up is not for anyone to decide, but the two of them. I am so sick of people in the media spending hours each week, telling Rihanna to leave, run as fast as she can, after all look at the example she is setting for women and young girls all over the world. Please...put it to rest! That is what is wrong with so many people today. They are expecting famous people they know nothing about to be role models for their kids. Maybe they need to turn off the damn TV, put down the gossip mags, and be the example to their kids. That should keep them busy enough to not have the time to worry about some "star's" life. Then entertainers can do what they are paid to do...entertain...NOT be examples to our KIDS!

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okay
Posted by: ladyoracle on Mar 6, 2009 2:44 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would imagine that she does think he won't do it again and so have a lot of women before her.

But you said the money question isn't applicable to this case because she is very wealthy, and then you turned around and said she's probably staying with him to keep her career going, which is absolutely about fame, power, prestige, and MONEY. So it very well may be about money after all. I don't disagree with your premise, but don't set it up as something it isn't, which is another version of the classic feminist explanation that you set out to discredit.

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Fool my once, shame on you. Fool me, twice murder suicide.
Posted by: Honky the Misanthrope on Mar 6, 2009 2:47 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can empathize with a victim of abuse the first time it happens. Anyone that returns to their abuser is a victim of their own stupidity.

Rihanna should get pregnant. That’ll solve all of her relationship woes.

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» I agree. Posted by: maxpayne
Domestic violence
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Mar 6, 2009 3:21 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The reason DV talk from feminists turns me off is that they speak of it as a women's issue, even though it isn't. That there is such a thing as DV against men and among gay people is one of their best-kept secrets.

The example used here is a good example of the dishonest, politically-charged, counterproductive, and one-sided nature of the feminist approach towards DV. The article seems to assume that leaving her abuser would be a career killer for Rihanna. Can they predict her future? How would you explain Tina Turner's big comeback during the 80s?

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» RE: Domestic violence Against Men Posted by: DrGeneNelson
Why does he beat her? Obvious answer
Posted by: helenahanbasquet on Mar 6, 2009 4:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He's a chicken-shit coward and a bully.

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if there was violence in your home
Posted by: aislinnluv on Mar 6, 2009 4:24 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
as a child, it is the "normal" that you seek to reproduce in your adult life. we are programmed by our surroundings and circumstances in our infancy and youth. this programming lingers in our unconscious minds so even if we consciously know the difference between a good relationship and a bad one, we might find ourselves gravitating to someone who has the same propensity to abuse as the abuser we left at home.

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A Strange Argument
Posted by: raymondg on Mar 6, 2009 4:35 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's very hard for me to believe that Rihanna would hurt her career by leaving someone who obviously physically abused her. Now that the whole of the incident has been released to the press with Rihanna confronting Brown about a lengthy text message from a former girlfriend and subsequently getting a terrible beating as Brown continued to drive the vehicle, risking not only his life and Rihanna's but also anybody else's who happened to be on the same road, Rihanna comes off as a very sympathetic victim. That sympathy could easily be parleyed into a boost in her career. I can imagine a hit song and video about women who emerge victorious from abusive relationships. I think people are not taking into account the callow ages of Rihanna and Brown and not factoring immaturity into the equation. Both stars are very, very young and both have led very pampered lives for a good deal of their young lives, which has not allowed them to have much experience with real world issues. Rihanna is likely living in a fantasy world in which she honestly believes that Brown will never strike her again. The hope is that when it happens again -- and it will, if they stay together long enough -- she will have matured enough to know that the best thing is to have no contact with Brown.

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This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
Wow
Posted by: k_pr on Mar 6, 2009 5:50 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First of all, thank you for this article. It needed to be said.

I am a man and I am stunned by the responses posted here.

Abuse is always, always the responsibility of the abuser. That's what makes them an abuser. It's someone who preys on the trust of another. So whether it is an abusive husband or Bernie Madoff, that individual is taking advantage of those who trusted them.

Let's talk about what should really be the issue - raising young men and women (in the case of child abuse) who know how to relate to others and not resort to abuse behavior, physical or emotional.

In every relationship there will be friction between individuals as we try to find that balance between the needs of the relationship and the needs of the individuals. And as those individuals argue they will push each others buttons. It happens to everyone. But, an adult learns how to deal with those aggravations without resorting to violence.

So if in this case, the woman "provoked" the man, so what? There is no excuse for resorting to violence.

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I got out on my 4th attempt...
Posted by: RegK on Mar 6, 2009 6:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...but the average for abused women is 7 attempts before actually getting out for good. It's that hard. And you're right, it's not about money and resources, it's about being ground down and brainwashed by the abuser.

Why doesn't she just leave? Because the abuse happened by inches over time and the batterer is now denying that it is even taking place; because her batterer is brainwashing her--telling her that she's "nothing" and that nobody will believe her, that nobody else will ever love her; because her batterer is lying about her to their friends; because her batterer reported her credit cards as stolen when she fled to a hotel so she had to go back home; because when he isn't being violent (about once a month) he's the most charming guy in the world. I know. It all happened to me.

The right question to ask is: So why doesn't he just stop? The answer: Because the abuse makes him feel good, that's why. It's that simple. He thinks he has the right to do this to her. Abusers choose their victims carefully. Abusers are narcissistic control freaks who explode to keep their victims off balance and in line. They're in total control, including of themselves.

And don't anybody be fooled by batterers' counseling programs. They don't work. They give false hope to victims and effectively train the men to be cleverer batterers. They have about a 2-5% success rate. Why we waste public money on batterers' counseling when we should be focusing on victims I'll never know!

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Reminds me of the lessons Krishna taught Arjuna in the Bhagavad Gita.
Posted by: maxpayne on Mar 6, 2009 6:50 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You may love your partner but at some point, you have to turn that love into the art of holding them accountable for bullying you. There's a lot to learn from the Bhagavad Gita than what I can fill on this page. Read it, learn from it, and stand up for yourself. And if you can, get some sidekicks to defend you just in case.

A second lesson learned is also to never "defend" the abuser out of fear. It's no different from merely running away out of fear. Sooner or later, what gets shovelled under the rug temporarily only comes back at you in full force.

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» Crowbar Posted by: Karina
» RE: Crowbar Posted by: maxpayne
Her situation is unique
Posted by: ibolyap on Mar 6, 2009 6:53 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First of all she is a very young woman. She has a career in the music business. She is not dependent on her man for support. She doesn't fit the usual profile of a woman who has no options. They don't have children. She has many options. She can get counselling about how to make better choices when it comes to men. She should talk to Tina Turner and get some good advice about destructive relationships.

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» RE: Her situation is unique Posted by: Breckenridge
The real question is why does HE stay?
Posted by: Beck on Mar 6, 2009 7:15 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Guys in relationships that infuriate them to the point of hitting the person they're committed to? How does THIS make any sense, and why aren't we asking why THEY stay if things are so awful for them?

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Beat me twice, shame on me
Posted by: doodahman on Mar 6, 2009 8:08 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In fact, abusers often taunt their victims with just this question, because they grasp the psychological power of it, the sexism and the self-esteem erosion behind it, and they are happy to use it as a part of their arsenal to demoralize the victim and make her think she doesn't deserve better.

Oh, so the abuser is utterly rationale and the victim is psychologically and emotionally incapable of standing on her own feet. Well, I guess if that's true, these women ought to stay where they are and BEHAVE. Right?

Funny, but I thought the rationale of domestic violence was that the abusers were psychologically impaired with an incessant need to control their partners coupled with substance abuse lowering an already low inhibition against rage and violence (instilled at an early age). In which case, absent intensive therapeutic intervention, the only rational and effective way of dealing with the abuse is to end the relationship.

But, I guess that rationale no longer serves to infuse women with their full measure of desired victimhood and lack of responsibility for their own situation. No wonder we don't want them running things, eh? I mean, shit, what would happen if, say Putin were to taunt a psychologically vulnerable President Hillary Clinton? I guess we'd all be in trouble, then.

As an additional idiocy of this article, the notion that abusers are coddled is striking. The evidence offered is what? Kanye? Are you serious? To the extent there is any sympathy for abusers, it arises from the fact that out of 100 men arrested for "abuse" and put into the system, I would suspect less than 10-15% are actually any danger to anyone, including their partners. Create a system that does little else than empower women to use the state as a means of coercion and battery, and there is going to be abuse in the same proportion as men doing it to women. Or, is your theory that somehow that the percentage of women who are psychologically impaired with an incessant need to control their partners and an inability to control themselves when using the police as their abuse option. If so, what is that evidence? Oprah?

Let me paraphrase: Beat me once, shame on you. Beat me twice, shame on me.

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» errata Posted by: doodahman
» RE: Beat me twice, shame on me Posted by: dorym930
» RE: Beat me twice, shame on me Posted by: doodahman
Been There
Posted by: lynned2002 on Mar 6, 2009 9:02 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Domestic violence is one of the most misunderstood problems in our society. It is a vicious dynamic cycle that involves both the perpetrator and the victim. And as one of the posts stated, it happens inches at a time. It is very complex and cannot be pinned down to any one issue, such as money, that a woman is stupid to keep on taking it, or that the man is a monster.

In many cases both parties grew up in households in which domestic violence was the norm, therefore it becomes a generational pattern. As a survivor of domestic violence, this is all so clear to me now.

In my case I saw my mother abused by my father the entire time I was growing up. The idea of mutual love and respect was completely alien to me. My mother finally left my father and found peace in volunteering at the local womens shelter. The stories she told could make your hair stand on end.

I did not consciously seek out to become involved with an abuser, but I think unconsciously this is what I sought. To me this was normal because it was the only thing I knew. My partner also grew up with domestic violence, as did Chris Brown.

I finally left because I felt my children were in danger. This was not easy and without the help of two incredible policemen I don't think I could have done it. You are so terrified and confused you are totally unable to get a proper perspective on what is really happening.

This all occurred 15 years ago. I look back on it as if it were a movie, and can see how messed up I was, and also how messed up my abuser was. I can also see him for the human being he is. I have forgiven him and hope he has found some peace in his life.

Most importantly, I think I have broken the pattern of abuse in my family as I vowed that my kids would not grow up in the atmosphere I did. I expect that my children will have happy and normal relationships, based on love and mutual respect.

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Getting out and "shame on me"
Posted by: Alsu on Mar 6, 2009 9:02 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is a widespread misconception about violence and abuse, the batterers and the victims.
First of all: violence does not happen out of the blue. Violence builds up slowly.It would be far easier to leave if it happened out of the blue while everything else is fine. You would be shocked enough and go. But in most of the cases an abuser starts with verbal abuse, brainwashing the victim into fear and submission before it happens. This is true for male and female perpetrators. Living with a batterer means living in fear. You never know what will happen the next ten minutes, which makes planning for an escape very difficult.
Secondly: most of the victims have been abused as children. That is true for me, that is true for a male friend of mine living in an abusive relationship with a violent woman. I got out, he is working on an escape, and believe me - its very hard. Childhood abuse takes all your self esteem, and you learn that getting hit or verbally abused is "normal". To escape you need support, willpower, self esteem and a knowledge that that what is happening to you is not right. Abusers take all that away, often isolating you from friends and family. You feel you have no one to turn to.
Third: Leaving is dangerous. Most of the women killed by their abuser get killed after they left. I was stalked for five years after leaving. He tried to kill me once. It was hell, and it was dangerous.
Fourth: there are male and female abusers. They were often abused themselves. That was true for the man who hurt me, and is true for the violent woman my friend is with. I can forgive and feel sorry for the man now. He needs help and should have the possibility to get it
I would never judge anyone returning to the abuser. It may be out of love, out of the (false) idea of responsibility, out of the illusion you can help the abuser, because you have no place to go, because of a feeling of loneliness and worthlessness without the relationship, because of false promises of the abuser. There are a multitude of reasons, all not good but all very plausible when you are in such a relationship. Rhianna is facing a difficult and dangerous future. I hope it will turn out right for her.

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abusers never stop, even in absentia
Posted by: littlepitcher on Mar 6, 2009 9:23 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a survivor of childhood domestic abuse, I can easily imagine Rihanna deciding that she would rather keep the financial support and live in danger than lose it and still live in danger.

Discarding an abuser is not as easy as it appears. The abuser will have his/her friends ridicule you, get you fired with lies or have you harassed by coworkers, and suborn your friends so that they will mistreat you, all the time telling these abusers-by-proxy "Backstabbing is fun. Do this--I guarantee you will like it."

The abuser will set you up with other abuser relationships, or tell your relationships that you like to be slapped around. Rumors will run rampant that you are an S&M "bottom" masochist. This enables the abuser to claim either that you run false accusations on everyone, or that you deliberately choose abusers or set yourself up for abuse.

The really ingenious abuser might even--as mine did--have a friend or relative jailed on false or exaggerated pretenses, and then demand a signed statement recanting all allegations of prior abuse as a condition of leaving the jailed hostage alone.

Rihanna needs emotional, PR, and financial security to leave her abuser. Here's hoping that the entertainment community will relinquish their tolerance of violence and step up to provide it.

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dory in lake havasu
Posted by: dorym930 on Mar 6, 2009 10:08 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
some of these comments just serve to prove the author's point...and show...once again... just how unenlightened people who've never been down this road are!!! my ex-husband tried to kill me....3 times...oh, i tried restraining orders..(they just mad him madder... and he came after me WORSE...with each new order!)....then, we went to trial.....he was an ex- yankee....so... NOBODY, in his home town would believe that SUCH "wonderful guy" COULD HARM A WOMAN.....AND THEY SAW ME AS SOME CRAZY WITCH OUT TO RUIN HIS REPUTATION..(did they even have an inkling of what this did to MY life??!!)...LONG STORY SHORT... he got away with it....AND WAS LET LOOSE...AND I IMMEDIATELY HAD TO GET MYSELF A GERMAN SHEPHERD...TRAINED IN PROTECTION....AND an elaborate alarm..(that NEVER worked right...especially when he CUT MY PHONE LINES)....and live in fear...with my knife in one pocket..and my car keys in the other..even while in my house!!!or shopping!!!.till i could finally move 2500 miles away from him...(after my children went off to college....which I PAID FOR)....he continued to drive by my house...(he COULD...because it was a public road and he had rights!...even though he lived on the complete other side of the county!...and had NO GOOD REASON TO BE ANYWHERE NEAR MY HOUSE!)....IT WRECKED TWO VERY IMPORTANT FRIENDSHIPS...AND TOTALLY RUINED MY DAUGHTERS' VIEWS ON LIFE, IN GENERAL..and on me, in particular...it continues, to this day... as he just moved to las vegas....which is only 2 hours from here....and...once again.... i live in a constant state of readiness to flee....or shoot....whatever....it has been an ongoing nightmare.....i feel terrible for this poor woman.... her whole life will now center around this incident....instead of around her talent....if she goes back to him.... HE'LL DO IT AGAIN....he is only "repentant" to keep his image....and because he was caught red-handed...literally....these monsters must be treated like the attempted murderers, liars, and con-artists that they are.... and the safety of the victim should be the MOST IMPORTANT thing!!!!...ankle bracelets to warn both police and the victims MUST be issued AT THE SAME TIME OF THE REPORTED ABUSE...AND THE SIGNING OF THE FIRST RESTRAINING ORDER!!!!!....the VICTIM'S RIGHTS should outweigh the perpetrator's rights...at EVERY level....the justice system failed me...and left a shambles of my family....and let my attacker go unscathed....and he continues to proclaim his innocence....most especially because he was acquitted....i say... he was acquitted because the jury was biased.(one jury member even wore a "yankees" t-shirt to trial!!!!).and the prosecutor did a crappy job........but it is NOT the same as being innocent....he got away with it...just like O.J. did, the first time....this whole system infuriates me! and my heartfelt prayers go out to rihanna!

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» RE: dory in lake havasu Posted by: lynned2002
» Dory's Revenge: Posted by: rickiey
Unless you got a black belt in karate and have great shooting and other defense skills, good luck !
Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield on Mar 6, 2009 10:09 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And I have yet to find a wonderful partner. Oh well, guess it's better to stand up for what you want and not get it than it is to settle for what you don't want and get it. Sad isn't it?

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Another confused male
Posted by: prtsimmons on Mar 6, 2009 10:53 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First of all, let me say that I really don't think the lives of celebrities are anyone's business. Domestic abuse is a societal problem, however, so I don't think it should be off-limits as a topic of discussion.

I do not think the victim bears any responsibility for the criminal actions of their attacker. But the standard applied to domestic abuse cases is very different from the way we deal with other types of violence in the media, and I think that some of these well-intentioned attitudes are actually making domestic violence easier to get away with. For example, I am deeply offended when the popular media won't show pictures of Gaza, Darfur, or child soldiers in the Congo. Even though the pictures are disturbing, it is important for people to see the consequences of violence. Yet somehow I am supposed to believe that pictures of domestic violence victims are a betrayal of the victims' dignity. Why does a domestic abuse victim have different rights than a victim of mutilating rapists in the Congo or genocidal death squads in Sudan? Isn't the need for society to deal with and help the victims of violence an important consideration?
The statements in this article about 'society supporting the abuser' just don't ring true, either. The only direct experience I have with this involved a female relative and her (now ex-) husband. I can assure you, if anyone I know runs into that ex-husband, he gets spit on, threatened, and generally made to feel like the sub-human piece of crap that he is. Nobody has ever blamed my aunt, and her current husband has never been abusive in any way. I know that some women are in situations where people side with their abuser but it is not universal.
I also find it difficult to reconcile the idea of telling women to be strong and not to put up with abuse, and then saying that those who are abused had no power to prevent it. We need a more nuanced position: the victim is never to blame, but every woman has the power to improve her situation.
Finally, there seems to be only two classes of behaviour for men: we are all either abusers, or ignorant enablers of abusers who wouldn't go out of our way to help a victim of domestic abuse. That's just not fair to men. I think we need to engage men as active participants in the eradication of domestic violence. Being constantly told, "You don't understand" and "You're too ignorant to do anything" is not a good way to engage the male portion of our populace. Men are definitely part of the problem; we need to be part of the solution, too.

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Bullsh_t. You hit a lady in front of me, and we'll both go to jail together.
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Mar 6, 2009 10:57 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's intolerable in *my* society to hit people, especially folks who are unable to adequately defend themselves, for whatever reason.

It's not a "social problem", it's a problem--when kept private--between two individuals. When public, it's a matter of making the aggressor pay for his or her attacks. It doesn't matter if that's Francis hitting Pookey with a frying pan, or Pooking beating Francis with a belt. Violence is abominable, and I'll step in privately whenever and publicly when feasible.

Quit turning violence into a sex "thing". Violence--on its face--is an offense to civilized, Westernized peoples.

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Something to consider
Posted by: Blue Heron on Mar 6, 2009 10:59 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It probably is tempting to blame the victim, as in Rihanna's case, when she is an adult and should be responsible for herself. Though that logic is questionable, I think that cases of child sexual abuse drive the point home. The reason I mention this is that the child is often blamed by the family and labeled the black sheep, while the bread winning abuser gets off scot-free. To me, that is terrifying. The fact that we are a society that would even entertain the notion that an eight year old girl is a temptress is proof that we have not evolved past amoeba. I think this mentality is responsible for most of the victim bashing that goes on.

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» RE: Something to consider Posted by: Blue Heron
Great Article!
Posted by: Tiff0516 on Mar 6, 2009 12:10 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A major reason men beat women is because we ask, "Why doesn't she leave?" In fact, abusers often taunt their victims with just this question, because they grasp the psychological power of it, the sexism and the self-esteem erosion behind it, and they are happy to use it as a part of their arsenal to demoralize the victim and make her think she doesn't deserve better. So every time we ask that, we have to ask ourselves why we don't believe that society coddles batterers, when we are engaging in batterer assistance ourselves

This is a very well written article. And I think it really makes you realize your own opinions on this situation (or any type of situation like this) and rethink your postion. I espically liked the part where it is said that by not taking a side or simply walking away speaks louder.

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Gender Hate Crimes
Posted by: ursusmajora on Mar 6, 2009 1:10 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I really liked this article and think that everything that you are saying is incredibly important (as evidenced by the many ignorant comments. I also wanted to reply to your calling violence against women and girls "gender hate crimes"--I think this is particularly intelligent and insightful!

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Wrong question
Posted by: TheLimit on Mar 6, 2009 1:59 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Actually, as soon as one asks 'why did he beat her' the issue is trivialized, and that is a question that should never be asked. Unless you accept that there is some valid reason why one person would hit another, that question is completely irrelevant, and besides, we already know why. It's because he's a control freak who for whatever reason is hostile to women, or to wives or some other aspect of marriage.

The question 'why do you stay' is at least pertinent; one could hope to offer some remedy on hearing the answer.

But the only real remedy is to find a way to make battering unacceptable in the culture. It seems that's an even greater challenge than freeing individual women from their batterers.

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Why does she not leave? Because it's about power & control of the abuser
Posted by: Redrum on Mar 6, 2009 2:00 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The three major characteristics that prevent abusees from leaving an abusive relationship is love, hope, and fear. The abusee believes her abusive partner still loves her. That he/she's abusing the abusee because he/she loves her/him. You'd be amazed to know how prevalent this thinking is. This is a major reason why abusees don't leave abusive relationships.

Then there's hope. There's the idea that if I only do this or that better, then his/her abusive partner will change his/her behaviors. The other excuse to stay in the relationship is "he/she won't hit me again, he promised." There's that piece of hope in there too.

Then there's fear, another major reason why abusees don't leave abusive relationships. There's the fear that the abusee can't live on her own. There's the fear that if the abusee leaves, that the abuser will come beat her some more or even kill her/him. Statistics and domestic violence experts will tell you, across the board, that THE most dangerous time for an abusee in an abusive relationship is AFTER the breakup. So that keeps the cycle of violence going AND prevents abusees from leaving relationships. I'm certain that these three factors played into Rihanna's situation.

It's NOT as easy as people make it out to be. Learn the facts of what keeps domestic violence going.

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YOU DON'T KNOW ME AND I DON'T KNOW YOU AND THAT MAKES IT POSSIBLE FOR ME TO TELL YOU
Posted by: Raymond Emerson on Mar 6, 2009 5:57 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
a very personal story that otherwise would simply sit hidden. As background I lost my first and only wife some years ago. I didn't do well. I had no idea how to date.

In the process I stumbled across a kind gentle little gal that was being abused. I steered a fairly wide berth. When I saw her with two black eyes covered by a heavy coat of makeup, I made my mind up. After the marriage of her youngest daughter she stayed with him 24 more hours.

We have been married 6 years. It was one of the smartest moves I have ever made. The other one was my first gal. Solving the worlds problems one person at a time is going to be too slow.

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What's Wrong With The Question? It's Her Answer.
Posted by: bessie on Mar 6, 2009 10:03 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most people would ask this question. If it were your daughter, wouldn't you ask this question? Why don't you leave him? So the problem, isn't the question or the feelings behind this questioning - which seem to be a normal reaction to an abusive situation like this. The problem arises with the response - he loves me, he'll never do this again, etc. Relationships, like these, are sick and akin to addictions. Violence doesn't equate to love, that's more than obvious. The victim deep down knows this and yet can't break free. Like an addiction. Hopefully, she'll find the courage to walk away before it's too late. But she'll have to realize that she deserves to be treated in a loving, honest way and that his violent behavior is not her responsibility or fault.

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Article makes no sense in parts
Posted by: Jamesberry on Mar 6, 2009 11:18 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My god this article is all over the page. At times it seems like man hating bullshit. But I think this lady, the writer has been beaten. Most men find that disgusting. Happened to my sister. If he did it to you it front of me I’d end up with a sore hand. Most likely Rihanna stays because of family issues. Meaning she’s seen it before and therefore thinks it normal behavior. Just my best guess.

I’m sorry but at times this article makes no sense. Take this passage

It's just such an easy, obvious way to get sympathy for women who have very little sympathy in the public, who tend to share 51-100% of the blame for the beatings that they avoid and wish deeply didn't happen.

I don’t think it's what the writer means but this passages makes it seem these women deserve to be beaten. Maybe this writer has issues that need to be resolved. Is it sarcasm because if it is it’s very very poorly done? If it was avoided it did not happen and so no one has any responsibility. If it didn't happen why does she wish it didn't. Gee alternet hire a dang editor.

Another bad passage

name your "date rape/gray rape" cliches that take the heat off calling it what it is, which is rape.

Look Date rape gray rape both contain the word rape they therefore don’t take the heat off calling it rape.

No a lot of men, the majority of us have no support for someone like Chris Brown or Kanye West or Mike Tyson. See the way I and most men my age were raised these guys are not even men. Male by virtual of what hangs between their legs, but not men. Men do not strike women. You do it and boy you ain’t no man. You know it’s just as sexist to assume all males have the same attitude.

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neverquit
Posted by: neverquit on Mar 7, 2009 7:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How is this like, "America, Love it, or leave it!"?

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One & Done
Posted by: NoPCZone on Mar 7, 2009 3:38 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Any person that will violently attack a partner is highly probable to do it again. No psychobabble or word salad of equivocation will cover that plain fact up.

The tragedy here is that this woman has the financial means to make sure he is kept away and can easily take care of herself. Given her celebrity status, she would have no problem getting heard by the media or any law enforcement.

For all parties concerned I hope this ends well. I seriously doubt it will.

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» RE: Not true, unfortunately Posted by: TheLimit
» RE: Excuse Me? Posted by: bessie
» RE: xcuse Me? Posted by: TheLimit
Well then, if a woman with resources chooses to go back to her abuser...
Posted by: eyejam on Mar 9, 2009 2:21 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
..then she does so from a position of empowerment, right? She could leave if she wanted, it's not a matter of economics. Obviously, something else is going on with Rhianna. Short of an intervention she will, as is her right, continue to make foolish choices. On the other hand she deserves no sympathy. Does this article suggest that some women can't be responsible enough to make their own relationship choices? It almost sounds like it does. Damaged people make damaged choices. Rhianna should be no one's role model. If her career suffers as a result of her relationship with Chris Brown then maybe that's justice. No one respects willful victims. Worse than that, people look up to her as some model of success. Her decision to be with Chris Brown is bigger than her. Chris Brown deserves no sympathy either. (If he were offering public contrition and undergoing counseling that might be another thing.) By the way, don't expect this relationship to change. No doubt he'll beat her again.

As for the women-who-drink-with-rapists point: One fact is undeniable, it is far easier for a potential victim to avoid a bad situation then it is to expect a potential perpetrator to check himself. This is not the same as a woman in an abusive relationship and afraid to run. If a woman is in a situation where she has the most to lose, like going to a kegger in a frat house, then she is also in the best position to prevent catastrophe. E.g.: A person should be able to walk the streets at night in safety. But, they also have to take responsibility for protecting themselves and walk where they have the best chances of being safe. Liberties may be compromised but who should risk personal injury to argue for principle?

In the relationship of Chris Brown and Rhianna, it is Rhianna that has the most to lose. Chris Brown is sick but by going back to him after such publicized abuse this is what Rhianna is telling the world: He's so cool that she'll willingly take a beating to be with him. And, that it's okay to beat women. (Maybe it's even worse than that: Maybe for some sick purpose Rhianna wants the world to see her as a martyr.) To give her the "low self-esteem" excuse seems to relieve her of the responsibility of being a public figure. Going back to him does untold damage to all abused women. Feel compassion for Rhianna but give her no sympathy.

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