Home
Archive
Newsletters
Video
Blogs
Discuss
About
Search
Donate
Advertise

It's Bring Your Gun to Church Day

By Bill Berkowitz, Smirking Chimp. Posted March 2, 2009.


Arkansas takes the lead in bringing America's obsession with firepower to the pews.

Share and save this post:

      

      

Share on Facebook       

AlterNet Social Networks:
follow us on twitter
find us on Facebook

In Special Coverage

Belief:
Is Blind Faith in God and the Bible a Modern Invention?
Devilstower

Corporate Accountability and WorkPlace:
Who's Paying for the Recession Most of All? Young Workers
Lizzy Ratner

DrugReporter:
Lies About Marijuana Drive People to a Much More Harmful Drug -- Booze
Steve Fox

Environment:
Why Max Baucus' 'No' Vote on the Climate Bill May Really Help Its Passage
Jeff Mcmahon

Food:
Soda Helps Make Americans Unhealthy and Fat -- Will Soda Tax Prevail Despite Pushback by Beverage Industry?
Christine Spolar, Joseph Eaton

Health and Wellness:
Do We Really Want to Enshrine Insurance Monopoly into Law? This and 5 Other Complaints About the Health Bill
John Nichols

Immigration:
NYC Marathon Raises Question of Who Is American Enough?
James E. Johnson, Jr.

Media and Technology:
How Biased Media Can Brainwash You
Melinda Burns

Movie Mix:
The Yes Men: Pranksters Out to Fix the World
Mark Engler

Politics:
4 Ways the Stupak Amendment Deprives Women of Access to Abortion
Jessica Arons

Reproductive Justice and Gender:
How the Stupak Amendment Radically Undermines Abortion Rights
Rachel Morris

Rights and Liberties:
"My Kids Want to Hide Their Identity; They're Scared Someone Will Attack Us": U.S. Muslims Being Targeted
Jaisal Noor

Sex and Relationships:
9 Silly Things People Say When They Hear You Don't Want Kids (And Ways to Counter Them)
Liz Langley

Take Action:
G-20 Meetings: Nothing Much Happened in the Suites, and There Was Too Much Punch in the Streets
Laura Flanders

Water:
Why Natural Gas Is Not a Clean Energy Panacea
Stan Cox

World:
10 Suicides a Month at Ft. Hood -- War Stress Is Taking Soldiers to the Brink
Dahr Jamail

More stories by Bill Berkowitz

Advertisement
Upcoming AlterNet stories on Digg

On February 11, Fox News reported that the Arkansas House of Representatives had "approved a bill allowing concealed handguns in churches, despite hearing arguments that lawmakers should put their faith in God, not guns." The bill, which easily passed in the House and is headed to the Senate, "removes churches and other houses of worship from the list of places where concealed handguns are banned," leaving only bars as "private entities where concealed weapons are banned."

Five days later, Jim Adkisson pled guilty to last year's shooting rampage inside the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church that killed two parishioners and wounded half-a-dozen others. In the coming years, other state legislatures will no doubt debate the wisdom of allowing churchgoers to carry weapons inside of churches. In the meantime, Jeff Hawkins, a former chief security officer for a world-wide Christian ministry, has founded the Christian Security Network (CSN), as a response to burgeoning violence against Christian churches, schools, ministries and missionaries. "Christian organizations - churches, schools, ministries and missionaries - still struggle with concept of security and how it applies, if at all, to their institution and the Christian community as a whole."

On their website, the Christian Security Network says that it's "a national organization dedicated to the advancement of security, safety, and emergency planning for Christian churches, schools, ministries, and missionaries."

We address every day risks such as lawsuits and liability, medical emergencies, crime, disasters like fire and destructive weather, violent situations, "active shooters", and lost or abducted children; further we believe that by being proactive, the Christian community as a whole can minimize these risks. "We are not 'alarmists.' "We do not believe in a 'knee-jerk' reaction to things that happen in our world by taking unrealistic and sometimes dangerous and liable measures. "However, we are 'realists.'

The Christian community is at risk from all these things and as a whole is behind the curve compared to the secular world in terms of security and emergency preparedness. These situations will occur in the Christian church, in the Christian school, at the Christian ministry and against Christian missionaries.

Jim Hamilton, a senior writer for Neighbor Newspapers, recently pointed out that there have been 20 people killed in church shootings in the past two years, and the Christian Security Network claims that it "has tracked over 100 criminal incidents in over 25 states against churches."

I asked Jeff Hawkins the following questions, in a series of emails:

How is business since your January launch?

Jeffrey Hawkins: Our business is building awareness, and providing training and education of the overall security for the Christian community; there is great interest and much work to be done in this area. Response to our mission, resources, and services thus far has been great.

Will the Christian Security Network serve the security interests of religious entities other than Christian churches, for example, mosques or synagogues?

JH: There are other organizations that already service the security and emergency planning needs for other religions; the Christian Security Network is in contact with several of them to share information and resources, as well as serving on organizations such as the State Department Overseas Security Advisory Council and ASIS International, which address security for all religions.

Are there established statistics showing increased multiple victim shootings at Christian churches as opposed to other public venues?

JH: Unfortunately, [there aren't] ... even the FBI's statistics do not accurately track all shootings because in order for it to be put in a religious category, the incident has to be classified as a 'hate crime,' not just a shooting. Otherwise it just gets lumped together with all violent crimes. However, given what I have followed over the last 20 years, there are about as many shootings in religious venues as other public venues. Workplace shootings still outpace all others.

Do you support legislation -- similar to the bill that is winding its way through the Arkansas legislature -- that would allow churchgoers to carry concealed weapons into their churches?

JH: The Christian Security Network has never taken a stand endorsing or condemning churches that allow weapons as a means of protection. We totally support people's second amendment rights and respect our constitution and that freedom. We trust that legislation in any state would address training of weapon use in a public environment, be it a church, amusement park or shopping mall.


Digg!    Share on facebook   submit to reddit    Bookmark on Delicious   Stumble This  

See more stories tagged with: church, guns, firearms, concealed handguns

Bill Berkowitz is a freelance writer covering right-wing groups and movements.

Liked this story? Get top stories in your inbox each week from AlterNet! Sign up now »


Advertisement
Advertisement

 

Comments Turn comments off sitewide Give us feedback »
Comments closed.
The comments for this story have been closed. Thank you to everyone who participated.
View:
A Church is a private organization.
Posted by: Honky the Misanthrope on Mar 2, 2009 12:21 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just because the law allows it, does not force the church to allow it.

If they choose to allow their members to legally carry a firearm what is it to you?

Is this your attempt to take away their rights like they do to you?. Screw unto other as they have screwed unto you, right?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» I have to agree. Posted by: Karina
A public-health problem
Posted by: Perry Logan on Mar 2, 2009 2:46 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"If they choose to allow their members to legally carry a firearm what is it to you?"

It's a public-health problem. Everyone but gun apologists understands this by now.

Thousands of Americans, including children, get blown away every year. Stolen guns add thousands of weapons to the criminal arsenal. Guns increase domestic violence, suicide, and murder rates and are used disproportionately against women. Gun mayhem costs every American more than $500 a year, whether they own a gun or not.

That sort of thing. Also, in poll after poll, a vast majority of Americans want more gun control. The people in Arkansas--and gun proponents in general--are only proving they're out of step America.

Let's face it--it's basically a white-guy thing.

More Guns, More Suicicde.

Myst

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: A public-health problem Posted by: YogiBear
» Anything but a fact. Posted by: ENDIF
» No, they're prepared. Posted by: ENDIF
» RE: No, they're prepared. Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: No, they're prepared. Posted by: ENDIF
» RE: A public-health problem Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» Get some help Dude. Posted by: Karlh
» RE: Get some help Dude. Posted by: losingmyliberties
» That's funny. Posted by: Karlh
» RE: Get some help Dude. Posted by: progunprogressive
» RE: Get some help Dude. Posted by: progunprogressive
» You are confused. Posted by: ENDIF
» RE: A cliche problem Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: A cliche problem Posted by: progunprogressive
» RE: A cliche problem Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: A cliche problem Posted by: progunprogressive
» RE: A cliche problem Posted by: ENDIF
» RE: A public-health problem Posted by: progunprogressive
» RE: A public-health problem Posted by: Crazy H
Praise the Lord, Pass the Ammunition!
Posted by: paulaH on Mar 2, 2009 4:24 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sirj Tankian has a song by that name. Great song.

Personally if churchgoers want to arm themselves and blow EACH OTHER away, more power to them. I am a little concerned about them being whipped into a mob frenzy of Christian holier-than-thou attitude and shooting someone in the restaurant they then go to after church services because they don't believe exactly as they do. But, hey, they can do that now, so what's it matter.

I do find the whole thing rather amusing, but also disturbing. Once again, the whole moniker of "Christian" becomes a misnomer. They spout What Would Jesus Do? then answer the question in some absurd way that would leave Jesus screaming in frustration. I mean, really. What part of "Turn the other cheek" suggests carrying a gun and shooting the other guy in church?

Do we see the Amish arming themselves because that guy shot up their children? No. Now THEY understand the WWJD concept.

One of the reasons behind the carry guns in church concept that was cited (I work in NW Arkansas and saw the article when they first introduced this bill so it's old news to my lunch cronies and I) was that churchgoers wanted to be able to "defend themselves". Oh, please. Although it happens sometimes, the frequency is not such that anyone should be freaking out.

Arkansas, at least NW Arkansas, has a church on every corner (and a bank across the street. think about that!). Truthfully. If I drive a quarter of a mile down a street I will pass no less than five churches. There are over 450 churches in the Fayetteville/Springdale/Rogers/Bentonville area alone. (it's sort of like a metroplex, all the cities blending into each other and totaling about 200,000 population). I can't think of a shooting happening in any of them in the recent years. Who are they protecting themselves from? Gays?

Oh, well. Maybe if they're busy shooting each other, they'll leave the rest of us alone.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I carry my gun everywhere, including church
Posted by: willie.horton on Mar 2, 2009 5:49 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In my home state, I can carry everywhere except Federal government buildings, the courthouse, and three slot-machine casinos. It's perfectly legal for me to enter a church, a polling place, or your kid's elememtary school with a concealed weapon.
So what?
Like all other carry permit holders, I'm not a violent criminal. In fact, I'm not any kind of criminal: I never knowingly violate a gun law. If there is a sign on a church, business or other building telling me not to enter with a firearm, or if I know that the law prohibits guns somewhere, I ain't going there with a gun.

Criminals -- the people you are actually afraid of here -- don't care whether it's legal to carry or not. If they already have a criminal record, it's a felony for them even to own a gun. Carrying one concealed is no problem for a criminal... so you think a law that prohibits guns in your church is going to stop a criminal from coming in there with his gun?

No: instead, it's going to stop me.

So, when another psycho like the "Tennessee liberal killer" shows up for services, I won't be there to shoot back at him.
Good luck!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Unsurprising. Posted by: ENDIF
» RE: Unsurprising. Posted by: Karlh
» Enlighten me. Posted by: ENDIF
» Excellent reply. Posted by: ENDIF
Kreestians feel insecure?
Posted by: HillbillyRob on Mar 2, 2009 5:51 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I ll tell ya'll a little story. edited for space.
Years ago me and my then partner lived in Al.
Now we weren't flamin queens, but two young 'single' guys who refinished antiques it's sort of a give away.
We moved to an older neighborhood. Income wise we were as poor as the rest of the white trash there. They were not exactly friendly, but sure were nosy. Peeking in windows, snooping asking pointed questions. When they did not get answers that suited them or no answer at all since some of the questions were rude.
They started with name calling. Then trying to bring gawd into our home, every Saturday morning about 7 am would bank on the door with bible in hand then start quoting from Leviticus, this later escalated to bottles and rocks thrown at the house and some tire slashing.
I started getting scared and got a 12 g shotgun.
Since I did not want to actually spend the rest of my life in prison. I got some shells loaded by a coworker at the electrical construction company with rock salt, not lethal at more than a few feet, but painful a lesson one can live thru. Finally one night after I had rented a portion of the house that was an apartment to young African Am woman trying to get away from her abusive husband(likely he was abusive because society was tho many who spew that blacks are violet conveniently forget about 400 years of racism, poverty and worse). These good kreestians decided to bring gawd to our heathen house hold by attempting to light a cross on my yard. Now this yard was abut 6'deep by the width of the house, said cross would have set that old wood house afire...
They found out that a scared pissed of queer with a 12 pump shotgun Will use it..shoulda seen em run in them white sheets.
In the colonial days it might have been worth while to take a gun to church as you might be attacked by wild animals.
Todays so called christians bring the violence to us not the other way around. The play the persecution bs, then have the nerve to get upset when someone gets tired of it and shoots back.
I got a $50 ticket for letting off a firearm in the city. But the pig did not 'see' the charred cross on my yard....

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Kreestians feel insecure? Posted by: losingmyliberties
A Good Examplar of Dupedom
Posted by: Suasponte on Mar 2, 2009 5:59 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These are the Dupes and the Demented centered in the south and mountain west States on whom the Plutocratic party relies for their votes in favor of the congressional stooges who tend to the comforts of the plutocrats.

The scoundrels at Fox Newstwister Channel and their counterparts in rightwing squawk radio led by Rush Limbaughloney, the voice of the far right lunatics and crackpots all across the country, keep these pathetic characters in a bulging-eyed, foaming-mouthed, red-faced frenzy against those "libruls" who are coming after their guns and who want the "job provider" fatcats to at last pay their share of taxes, ending the orgy of Bush's permitting them to raid the treasury for his eight wretched years in office.

Oh, yes, along with their guns they'll have their Bibles and flags, and proudly sing Onward Christian Solders in honor of Jesus, who loves free markets and job providers, unfettered by labor unions and governmental regulations

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Jesus would be armed
Posted by: chris mccalphy on Mar 2, 2009 6:08 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This just makes so much sense because if Jesus came back he would probably be armed wouldnt he? It would probably be something pretty hefty too an uzi or something with a couple of concealed handguns just in case, because you never know do you? He would probably lead a service of blessing for all arms manufacturers to show his support and endorsement of their holy work. He'd probably go on TV and have his own channel and praise all televangelists for spreading His word so professionally and they in turn would let him in on the action (a negotiated percentage). And I'm sure the pope would get a big hug. It all makes so much sense.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Jesus would be armed Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» Paranoia they destroy ya. Posted by: Karlh
» RE: Jesus would be armed Posted by: chris mccalphy
Read How the Other Half Lives
Posted by: Lilly on Mar 2, 2009 6:36 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Check out the conservative message boards (townhall.com is always a good starting place). Take a look at the (very huge) NRA website. Every single time there is a high-profile shooting, their response is the same---not "allow fewer guns" but "get more guns". They want an armed citizenry because their whole schtick is that they are persecuted and so are justified in defending themselves. After Virginia Tech they wanted to arm professors and students and no discussion of possible ensuing chaos and crossfire would deter them. The image of a church with an armed clergyman who is preaching, is interrupted by an intruder with a gun, takes out his trusty gun and shoots the intruder dead, puts his gun back in its holster, then keeps preaching is the stuff of cartoons but it's not far from what the gun enthusiasts want. I recall a post from a father who was teaching his five year-old to shoot. They delight in describing their guns in technical detail. They brag about how many guns they have and that they have buried extra guns so they'll be prepared when Obama comes to take away their other guns. Some of them, whatever the online discussion is about, manage to turn everys subject to telling us about their guns, just as others turn every topic to abortion. Until you actually hear from these folks it is very hard for normal people to imagine the role guns play in their lives. So the idea of packing heat in church isn't at all odd to them.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» idiotic Posted by: YogiBear
» I am the other half Posted by: dtucker
» Crossfire Posted by: YogiBear
Not gun mania but gun rights
Posted by: HBoyer on Mar 2, 2009 6:47 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We have the right to keep and bear arms. People like you want to eliminate the constitutional right for citizens to keep and bear arms.

If we did not have these rights in 2001 when we were attacked by Terrorist. Bush and his croonies would have made American a Fascist State. He almost did anyway.

The citizens right to keep and bear arms keeps America from becoming another Communist China or Nazi state.

We can stop the government from completely destroying what freedoms we have left after Bush and Congress took most of them away.

I suggest you move to Communist China and live a few years and then come back and I guarantee you will be a supporter of the Bill of Rights and the "Right to keep and bear arms.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» WELL REGULATED MILITIA. Posted by: Karlh
Would allowing guns in church,
Posted by: lewb on Mar 2, 2009 7:03 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
lead to more tragedies? I don't think you can legislate behavior. The man who opened fire in church wouldn't have been stopped by a law. He was determined to do it. Unless we make churches, like airports and the like,they will continue to be vulnerable to crazed gunman and people who wish to harm others. I hope we won't let this happen and revert to a bunker mentality like what our government has led us to.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

waynep
Posted by: waynep on Mar 2, 2009 7:37 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wonder if the church security folks had considered prayer? My fundamentalist friends tell me that is the solution for everything.
Let me tell you, even as a non-believer who has extensively studied the Bible back when I was a true believer, I have a most difficult time visualizing Jesus, as portrayed in the "good book", packing a pistol. When you tell me that you ask yourself, "what would Jesus do?", do you see it differently than I? Bottom line my church folk friends, if you are going to preach it, practice it....or you lose ALL credibility.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

An Armed Society is a Polite Society
Posted by: gar1948 on Mar 2, 2009 7:43 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Five days later, Jim Adkisson pled guilty to last year's shooting rampage inside the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church that killed two parishioners and wounded half-a-dozen others."

...and this has what to do with carrying a permitted gun?? Just asking.

Maybe if someone in the church had been packing, Adkisson would have only got off one shot. Instead, he mowed them down like the sheepeople we have all become.

"An armed society is a polite society." - Robert A. Heinlein

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: 'To win without fighting is best' Posted by: progunprogressive
» Is this a joke? Posted by: ReallyBearish
» RE: Is this a joke? Posted by: gar1948
» Is it? Posted by: ENDIF
» Oh really? Posted by: ReallyBearish
» RE: Oh really? Posted by: gar1948
» RE: Oh really? Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Is this a joke? Posted by: YogiBear
Good for them!
Posted by: ENDIF on Mar 2, 2009 11:55 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Leave it up to the church, business, etc if they choose to forbid entry on that criteria (if they can tell, this is concealed carry), none of government's business.

Legal bans on where one can concealed carry only create protection-free zones where nutjobs and lawbreakers are the only people able to project deadly force.

Unfortunately, and much as I wish the opposite were true, the world is not a perfect place. Predators exist. Sometimes good people must defend themselves against those predators. Police cannot be everywhere at once, nor should they be.

Preventing law abiding licensed and educated citizens from defending themselves is beyond stupid.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Nut jobs are the gun owners Posted by: ReallyBearish
» Again, I actually teach self-defense Posted by: ReallyBearish
» RE: Nut jobs are the gun owners Posted by: ReallyBearish
What are you really doing?
Posted by: archivist on Mar 2, 2009 1:33 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When you "ban" concealed weapons on a certain property such as a bank you give a greater since of security to violent criminals.

People who have concealed carry licenses are not gun nuts and are typically VERY responsible respectable mild mannered people.

One day we'll see how you feel when some sobbing mentally ill person descends on an establishment you happen to be at and starts offing people. While your on the ground quivering in a fetal position, hopefully, just hopefully, someone is able to pull a gun out of his or her jacket or purse and end the chaos.

You will never eliminate firearms from this planet, never ever in your lifetime or the next or the one after that. When criminals and mentally ill people decide to go killing people they do so out of a knowledge that there will be no resistance, this includes your government and the governments of other countries as well.

I ensure my family's physical security by owning firearms designed for multiple scenarios, am I a gun nut, hardly. I've expererienced the fear of having biker gangs roll into the primitive camping areas I like to visit from time to time. I have seen unsavory characters boss people around because they couldn't resist. I've been lost on DC and Dayton Ohio backstreets in the middle of the night. People who champion gun control are not very diverse people and most live in semi-gated crime free areas.

My guns are locked in a safe and are only used for training and security purposes. I hope I never have to point them at another human being.

As for inner city gun violence, you have an atmosphere of crime and fear which these kids have to grow up in. They are never taken out and trained and allowed to shoot firearms. If they had an area or facility with generous people designated to showing these kids firearm saftey and giving them the opporunity to shoot their willingness to commint violent crimes would surely decrease.

Besides, guns lose their romatic appeal once you fire them enough. It becomes rather boring and unsettling.

When someone in the inner city obtains a gun it sits there silent until they use it, they have no framework or expereince from which to actually UNDERSTAND the destructive power of the firearm muchless its responsible use although they KNOW what it can do. The first time they use it is in an act of desperation or out of a complete ignorance of their actions. Furthermore, a person untrained in fireams useage is not going to be able to hit anything with a handgun that is even 20ft away, their shots are going to go everywhere.

In the context of the inner city, gun violence happens because of a lack of love. It happens because people like cushy left liberal gun control nuts don't give two shits about them. I personally feel for what these people have to go through and I partly understand the fear they feal. I just wish they had a loving person to train them as I did. Instead the government makes sure cocaine is dumnped on their streets in copious amounts so liberal gun control nuts can have a cheap supply.

You people truly make me sick and I really wonder about your true mental state. I'm starting to realize that liberalism is a mental defect, a line of "reasoning" born out of emotion and convoluted political propaganda pushed through one way media platforms.

Thank god for the internet. I have had the opportunity to learn and convert from liberalism. I'm actually turned off by any 'ism' anymore. Its time to reevaluate all of our thoughts.

The sign of a mature mind is one which can entertain an idea without feeling pressure to accept it.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Five year old shooters
Posted by: archivist on Mar 2, 2009 1:46 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
....And yes my five year old has fired numerous firearms.

Guess what!?

He's no longer curious about them and knows how loud and dangerous and scary they are!
(See above comment)

(Hearing protection suggested)

Compare that understanding to that of a child who has only seen guns on TV and video games where it is ok to shoot people. He now has absolutly no romantic notions about firearms at all.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Training is different from owning. Posted by: progunprogressive
No need to worry about
Posted by: sirios on Mar 2, 2009 2:52 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
going to hell, WE HAVE ARRIVED!!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Another story to distract the idiot public.
Posted by: undead on Mar 2, 2009 4:27 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think gun control is a waste of energy. It would be better for us all if Alternet did investigative stories on the corruption in the Department of Defense, or more investigations about the bail out for the criminals on Wall Street.

This story is designed to divide and distract people.

Nice job alternet, your masters are proud of you. Are you going to run anymore GE adds, now?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The question
Posted by: Juven on Mar 2, 2009 6:25 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
is who's busines is it? Does it really matter? If they want to allow people to carry firearms in their church then don't go there.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Good Litmus Test of Theology
Posted by: DrBrian on Mar 2, 2009 8:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If churches are free to ban or permit firearms on their premises, I think that's a pretty good litmus test of their theology. Who counts for more, Joshua or Jesus? Leviticus or the Sermon on the Mount?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

They're just plain nuts, that's what
Posted by: peterjkraus on Mar 2, 2009 9:39 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Crazies all over. Arkansas is such a nice state, with a bunch of really cool people here in Hot Springs, where I live, but the Knownothings keep screwing it up for us normals. Guns in churches? Sure, why not in schools? In hospitals, in banks, in government buildings. Every scared shitless "patriot" (and only the terminally afraid buy and carry guns, be honest here) with his own Uzi, making him a man.
I moved here after growing up and living in Southern California, and let me tell you, they're just as kooky. The seventy-year-old Realtor kept a Colt in her Jaguar, her wide-eyed ex-Navy husband had firepower all over his scrawny body, the guy at the local 7-11 kept pointing to a sign that stated his dump is protected by Smith and Wesson.

What can you do? If the economy doesn't bust them, let's hope their militancy will.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

What god loves guns?
Posted by: Passacaglia on Mar 4, 2009 6:10 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We can always hope that those who take guns into churches in their pants pockets will accidentally pull the trigger and you know, shoot off their male member, hallelujah and Amen! Or in a frenzy from hearing the god-awful fire and brimstone sermon just start shooting helter skelter. Can't you see it now?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Another Armed Liberal
Posted by: barkinhound on Mar 6, 2009 1:20 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Works for me. Actually in the places I choose to dwell it is socially acceptable to be heeled just about anywhere or time. With the usual exceptions.

Fearing and ridiculing folks that shoot or have CCP's seems somewhat childish and, if you will excuse the wording, is akin to shooting yourself in the foot intellectually.

The militarization of local LEO and the evisceration of the Bill of Rights pose an infinitely greater threat to the common good than any law abiding armed citizen.

It seems that the greater number of these church shootings are committed by misguided neocons and conservatives intent upon reducing the number of liberals from the gene pool. Perhaps the rest of us liberals and progressives should spend a few minutes pondering that tidbit.

As a side note, I heartily suggest that all so called liberals and progressives pick up a copy of "Deer Hunting With Jesus" by Joe Bageant read it and consider some of it's message prior to calling us rural libs hicks, rednecks and such.

Regardless of your position, best to all.

Nemo Me Impune Lacesset

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

never in a thousand years
Posted by: chloelin on Mar 9, 2009 12:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Taking away their guns is like cutting off their cocks and for much the same reasons. You thought AlterNet was progressive? Just see those unreconstructed white males crawling out of the woodwork.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

  • AlterNetYour turn

Support AlterNet
Do you value the information you're getting from AlterNet? Please show your support with a tax-deductible donation.


Feedback
Tell us how we're doing.

Advertisement
Advertisement