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Will Obama Go After Social Security? My Editor and I Have a Bet

By Joshua Holland, AlterNet. Posted February 26, 2009.


If it were looted, it might produce enough in fat management fees alone to resuscitate Wall Street's ailing financial giants.

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I have a bet with my editor, Jan Frel. He thinks that President Barack Obama is going to go after Social Security. It's a huge honeypot sitting in a country that's had an enormous amount of wealth shaken out of it, and if it were looted, it might produce enough in fat management fees alone to resuscitate Wall Street's ailing financial giants.

Jan's not alone. William Greider, writing in The Nation, noted that "Governing elites in Washington and Wall Street have devised a fiendishly clever 'grand bargain' they want President Obama to embrace in the name of 'fiscal responsibility.' "

The government, they argue, having spent billions on bailing out the banks, can recover its costs by looting the Social Security system. They are also targeting Medicare and Medicaid. The pitch sounds preposterous to millions of ordinary working people anxious about their economic security and worried about their retirement years. But an impressive armada is lined up to push the idea -- Washington's leading think tanks, the prestige media, tax-exempt foundations, skillful propagandists posing as economic experts and a self-righteous billionaire spending his fortune to save the nation from the elderly.

I think Obama may offer some lofty but vague rhetoric about reforming "entitlements" as part of a broader set of policies designed to stabilize Medicare, and I believe that it's entirely possible -- and perhaps quite wise, politically -- that he'd make the very small tweaks that most progressive analysts agree will be needed, eventually, to keep a system that's fundamentally sound today healthy and fully funded in the future.

My reasoning is simple. Obama is, above all else, a shrewd politician, and going after Social Security in any substantive way -- privatizing it in whole or in part, or significantly cutting future benefits -- is political suicide. In an instant, he would lose his entire base of support, alienate labor, the AARP and the "Democratic wing of the Democratic Party" -- as the late, great Minnesota Sen. Paul Wellstone called progressive lawmakers -- and the result would leave him incapable of getting anything else on his agenda passed. See Bush, George W. -- he got Congress to go along with his disastrous and unjustified wars, pass the Patriot Act, and sit idly by as he used the Constitution as toilet paper, but when he chose (partially) privatizing Social Security as his signature domestic policy, it went nowhere fast.

Anyway, during Obama's address to Congress on Tuesday night, he made a reference to Social Security that caused Frel to tell look at me and say, without joy, "I'm going to win this bet."

"Not so fast," I replied. Here's what the new president said:

Now, to preserve our long-term fiscal health, we must also address the growing costs in Medicare and Social Security. Comprehensive health care reform is the best way to strengthen Medicare for years to come. And we must also begin a conversation on how to do the same for Social Security, while creating tax-free universal savings accounts for all Americans.

I'm sure my editor wasn't alone in picking up on that last part. After all, it was Bush who touted the wonders of private savings accounts to harness the "magic" of the stock market -- yes, the same market that has lost half its value in the past 18 months -- to beef up Americans' retirement security.

But there is a huge difference between substituting private accounts for the Social Security system we have now and adding some form of "universal savings account" as a new program to strengthen working people's economic security. The former is essentially the Bush plan, pushed by Greider's "think tanks, prestige media, tax-exempt foundations [and] skillful propagandists posing as economic experts." The latter is quite different. It is, in fact, a very old and very progressive idea for creating a society in which everyone is guaranteed the same shot at getting ahead. It's a proposal that might lead to a more equal, just economy.

So, parsing Obama's words, it's important that he said that he'd tinker with Social Security "while creating tax-free accounts," not "by creating tax-free accounts." (Jan argues that the key point is that Obama's promise of "comprehensive" reform, however nebulous that phrase might have been in his address, opens the door to something decidedly regressive.)

Creating universal private accounts as a new program to tackle wealth inequality is not a new idea. Michael Sherraden, a professor at Washington University in St. Louis, first proposed using them to build assets among the poor in his seminal 1992 book, Assets and the Poor: A New American Welfare Policy.


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Joshua Holland is an editor and senior writer at AlterNet.

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was marx right?
Posted by: masthead on Feb 26, 2009 2:46 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
glad to see Johsua Holland is on top of this issue at alternet. i have little faith that obama could actually stop the looting of social security should the financial aristocracy go after it since i see him as a subordinate president (receiving the hugest financial donations ever in u.s. history from the corporate complex may have consequences). on the whole the super rich have a good hold on how america is run. sometimes they literally poop on the poor as is the case in the western north carolina mountains where they have their multi-million dollar summer homes, where their sewage runs miles away from where they live into the creeks of local residents which run close to their homes.

as one poster once noted here at alternet, "parasite fascists are what rule our debt based money system".

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What's he going to do?
Posted by: MFiorillo on Feb 26, 2009 3:10 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This issue is among the most important one's to be dealt with in the coming years. Obviously, Wall St. wants to get its greedy claws into Social Security, and there are politicians in both parties who are happy to enable them. The big question is whether Barack Obama is among them. While I am not a big fan of the President's, and think it's still too soon to conclusively decide, there are reasons to be worried.

On the one hand, his talk of dealing with Social Security's long term viability might be a politically nimble dodge to cover his right flank. So far, he appears to be sticking to his campaign position that Social Security can largely be shored up be increasing the income limit on income withholding, which is the progressive position.

My fear is based on what Obama is doing in what may seem like a distant and unrelated realm: public education. However, they're more closely related than you may think.

It's no accident that we've seen simultaneous attacks on and plans to privatize both Social Security and public education. After all, they are the last big remnants of anything that resembles a public sector/social democratic infrastructure in this country. So far the attacks on Social Security have not gained much traction, but attempts to privatize education are much farther along, and here Obama's on the wrong side of the struggle.

He has appointed as Secretary of Education a hack non-educator who has overseen the closing of public schools and their replacement with charter schools, for-profit contract schools and military academies. He fully supports the testing mania that is part of the process of undermining the public schools, since charters - the stealth path to privatization - are given numerous advantages that the urban public schools don't have.

The jury is still out on what Obama will do regarding Social Security, but given his attitudes about public education and his donor list - infested with hedge fund and private equity parasites - I think there's a real possibility that looting of Social security is what he's about.

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» RE: What's he going to do? Posted by: richholland
social security has already been looted
Posted by: wsx on Feb 26, 2009 4:21 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
there is a treasury report to congress, the only government report that is audited, that show how the med/ss system is going to balloon out of control based on last years budget. i will post the link when i find it becuase it is very interesting/scary

i think we need a lockbox

bush's idea of putting $ in the market is obviously a bad one given recent history.

the government has been taking 13+% out of payroll already, its a non deductible tax, and it is a flat tax on everyone. that is a huge sum of money, and none sits in an account to fund future pension liabilities

every corporation in the us with a pension needs to operate under erisa, the fed government doesnt.

med/ss is a ponzi scheme that makes bernie madoff look like petty theft. to remind, ponzi is when people's investments are used to pay prior investors, and the scheme runs until the new investments are not large enough to cover payments to previous investors. that is social security in a nutshell

us debt is at 10trillion, obama is spending away, who know what the economy will bring, and if you raised taxes to the max you couldnt cover these amount because like it or not, low to medium tax rates actually produce more revenue.

what will happen

ss tax rate will not be capped at around 100k, people from now on will overpay for the benefits they will ultimately receive, retiree age will increase again.

take ss tax revenue, buy some of the us treasuries that are being printed, stick them in a govt account to begin to create a funded pension liability

everyone on this site believes if you raise taxes to the moon you will end up in a wonderful social utopia, in a country with 300m people, you need to keep businesses and individuals super competitive and incented to prodcue revenues needed.

its not rich people that are the problem, its government spending tomorrows tax base and creating obligations that will ultimately outgrow the system

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Of Course Obama Will Loot Social Security
Posted by: lorenbliss on Feb 26, 2009 4:27 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While Obama’s speech was superbly delivered -- the delivery reminiscent of JFK or New York City Mayor John Lindsay -- his remarks must all be viewed in the context of national purpose: that is, the true function of the United States: the propagation of capitalism and the protection of its ruling class by any means (including mass arrests and torture camps) deemed necessary.

In this context Obama’s implicit threat to loot Social Security makes perfect sense, all the more so given his campaign threat to reduce even present-day Social Security pensions -- something seemly forgotten by our memory-impaired media.

Nor is this the lone right-wing apple that threatens to spoil the Obama barrel. His defiant comment that the U.S. will preserve the automobile no matter what (and that too by any means necessary) is a knife in the heart of every environmentalist. It also explains why the new administration is demonstrably every bit as hostile to mass transit as the old one was -- a fact proven by comparing the two administrations' transit budgets, especially in the realm of light rail.

The biggest outrage of all was Obama's pledge to restore capitalism -- the very evil that spawned all our socioeconomic and environmental problems. It is almost as if the victors in World War II pledged to restore Nazism -- never mind it would necessitate fighting the war all over again.

It also proves that "change we can believe in" is just another Big Lie. As always, the sole purpose of the United States is the propagation of capitalism and the protection of its ruling class -- the very purpose that mandates the ongoing subjugation of all the rest of us. Which in turn will be furthered by abolishing Social Security and Medicare, thereby imposing (still more) euthanasia by neglect and abandonment to rid capitalism of its unprofitable human capital: those of us who are aged, disabled, poor, unemployed, otherwise no longer exploitable for plutocratic profit.

Sorry, Joshua; your editor is correct -- probably even more correct than he realizes.

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Hope You're Right
Posted by: Urstrly on Feb 26, 2009 4:39 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It would be political suicide, I agree. Even GWB admitted that he misspent his political capital in 2004 by trying to privatize Social Security.

I'm banking on Obama's firm grounding in the middle class to steady him here. He's spoken of his mother's problems with health insurance, I assume his grandmother needed her Social Security payments and Medicare, and surely his mother-in-law would rely on Social Security and Medicare to bolster whatever pension she receives had history not intervened.

No doubt Conley is correct about the lack of social mobility statistically, but people will use the rise of Barack and Michelle Obama to prove just the opposite. Listening to Bobby Jindel reply to the president's Tuesday night speech gave you a hint of this.

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» RE: Hope You're Right Posted by: TheLimit
» RE: Hope You're Right Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: Hope You're Right Posted by: TheLimit
It Truly Would Be Political Suicide, and S.S. is Already Being Looted
Posted by: ATH on Feb 26, 2009 4:47 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And if this happen, and the American people do not revolt en-mass, then we deserve what we get. This is one of those things we simply can't allow.

You know, the rich only pay Social Security taxes on a portion of their 'income.' They pay taxes up to aprox $109,000.00 and that's it. This amount is easily off-set by the amount of income taxes they avoid by exploiting loopholes in the law and by off-shoring their money--something they've been doing for decades and yet Congress and our presidents continue to turn a blind eye. If they would simply make these rich assholes pay their fair share of taxes, that would generate even more money, probably, than from Social Security. And it would be the right thing, the legal thing, to do, and in the interests of the majority--an idea that's supposed to be the cornerstone of a democratic Republic.

Imagine if Bush had privatized S.S.? It would be nearly destroyed by now.

Things are getting to a point where we have to start thinking about taking more radical action if these rich assholes continue to be catered to at the expense of the American people and our country. Personally, I think it's time to call in the military, if neccesary, and forcefully take these people down. They are holding our economy hostage. They should be made to pay the millions in avoided taxes they owe, and told that if they collude with other bankers to try to crash our economy, they will be arrested, investigated, prosecuted, and imprisoned!!! I know, it's a very radical idea, and not going to happen--but it should.
We've allowed ourselves to be arrested for smoking a plant, allowing lives to be ruined because the pharmaceutical and alcohol industries don't want the safest substance on earth, with multiple healing properties, as well as the ability to induce relaxation without incurring a massive hangover, to be able to compete with their own medicines, which often have side-effects far worse than the condition they are supposed to treat. Likewise, numerous other corporations, in our corporate-controlled government, don't want hemp (which is grown in almost every other country on earth)legal, because aprox 25,000 products can be made from it, including biofuel (which wouldn't cause people to starve or drive up the price of corn), paper and rope, and even plastic, which would normally take oil to produce. It replaces oil in quite a few products, which is something you would think our government would want.

Obviously, our government has failed to function. We must take away corporate personhood. Corporations should never have been given the rights of people! They have no nationality, and no allegiance to anything but profit, no matter how badly it hurts the land and people of various countries. Corporations can't vote, and they shouldn't be allowed to make political contributions. The airwaves are supposed to perform a public service, and that service should be giving all candidates the exact same amount of time to campaign, and for free, or at a rate that merely covers costs.
This would level the playing field to a certain degree. Last year, both Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich were un-invited from Primary debates!!! We now have network executives deciding whom the American people should be allowed to hear speak! This is not democracy, it's a travesty of justice. Dennis Kucinich would have truly brought change, real change, like Single payer healthcare, and he would be cutting the damn "defense" budget, which is as large as ALL the rest of government spending combined!!! This is where the cuts need to be made. Do we realy need to be able to destroy the planet 100 times over?

Also, the amount of S.S. we pay has doubled over the last several years, so that we're actually paying for two people. This money is already being looted and skimmed-off. If it were not, we would have a huge surplus. We're being robbed at every turn!

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a word on capitalism
Posted by: wsx on Feb 26, 2009 5:02 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
i know everyone hates capitalism, likes high taxes and the like on this site

the us and state govt already spends immense amount of $ on people/programs

the broader question is how to pay for it all

capitalism is a system of barter that rewards effort and innovation, and needs to be protected to generate a tax base

i will use saudi arabia as an example because of it ration of citizens to natural resources

saudi arabia has 264 billion barrels of oil reserves, assume that this is the only resource and could be split evenyly among citizens, that no new citizens will be created thgough abstinence, and that they all have 40 years to live.

each citizen would be receive, if $40 per barrel were pure profit, $9,800 per year. US GDP per capita is $47,000 per year.

my only advice is that the us isnt a simple allocation of resources, it is a system that produces value, and what needs to be done is grow gdp, have prioritized spending plans, and find optimal tax and revenue sources

i only write this because i am relatively new to this site and these concepts dont seem to carry much weight around here

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» welcome to idiocracy Posted by: dover23
It's just a matter of time
Posted by: undead on Feb 26, 2009 5:48 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
when some progressive says that "it was better when white people controlled the USA".

Fact is that Mr. Obama lied his way into office pretending to be a progressive when he is a controlled asset of the plutocracy.

As far as social security, our congress will throw it under the bus first chance they get.

You people voted for this group of thieves and liars, now you are shocked.

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» RE: It's just a matter of time Posted by: master09
I Disagree with Joshua Holland
Posted by: dustdevil on Feb 26, 2009 6:22 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"But I think it's more likely that Obama has in mind exactly the kind of center-left, technocratic solution that a modest universal savings account plan would represent."

I don't see how a universal savings account would solve any problem with social security. Why is this a cemter-left solution? It sounds like Bush's plan repackaged under another name.

Isn't this an excuse to cut SS benefits?

Would the government have access to these accounts as they do with SS?

Would Wall Street have access to these accounts?

Social Security works because recipients cannot receive their money until they are retirement age. Would Universal Savings Accounts work the same way? If they do, why do we need them. If they don't, they wouldn't work.

Holland says your parents' wealth is the best way to judge what your lifetime success will be. Holland therefore thinks your success should be judged by your wealth.

I think Mr. Holland needs to learn a lot more about what values in one's life really count before he tries to influence our thinking.

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» RE: I Disagree with Joshua Holland Posted by: richholland
» RE: Please read it again. Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Please read it again. Posted by: dustdevil
» RE: I Disagree with Joshua Holland Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Well, there it is . . . Posted by: dustdevil
» Only if you have trouble reading .... Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Hey, Joshua: Posted by: oregoncharles
this is an odd series of articles
Posted by: Beck on Feb 26, 2009 6:32 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I keep reading articles here and elsewhere with titles suggesting that obama is about to go after Social Security. Then the articles state that actually, he's not going to, but he might, but he's not, but here are the reasons that certainly he's about to. I sense a great burst of glee with not only every disappointment in Obama, but every potential future disappointment. This might make actual sense if the gleeful ones weren't the same ones who keep accusing us Democrats of seeing him as a Messiah. Actually, those of you rejoicing in what you see as failures do that. You have him in Messiah status so that you can continually point out when he's NOT one. How this differs substantially from the attitude you invent and criticize in Democrats is beyond me. I'd like to read how Nader would be different. I never hear much of a peep about that, and I wonder why. Would it take having to mentally deal with the inconvenient fact that there's a congress? Or would it be embarrassing to reveal how much he's idolized?

Republicans are honest about hoping Obama fails, without bothering to go into what that entails for everyone. Anyone else like it better when they read something or imagine something negative about Obama than something positive (I have some yawners in mind here). Remember that just because you've personalized all this stuff as HIS victories or HIS failures does not mean that we all aren't the real ones affected.

So maybe when there's smugness and glee or grim certitude about someone else's current or future failings, the next sentence could begin "Nader would have. . . " and then the sentence after that would begin "and he would have handled congress thusly. . ." and then maybe vote numbers could be dealt with so that all this is potentially even possible. Because the weirdest thing about third parties might just be the constant implication that these candidates were really players, with a real chance, who came close enough to be considered part of the big picture, but for we stubborn ones who would never listen to insulting reason.

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» 35 days Posted by: Joshua Holland
intentions and outcomes
Posted by: mwildfire on Feb 26, 2009 6:59 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We can all speculate about what's in Obama's mind, but we don't know and can't find out. In any case, what he has in mind and what comes about may be two different things.
He often talks in vague platitudes; but he's also on record on a good many things, some contradictory. I think it's fairly obvious that he's highly intelligent and his life background is such that he can be assumed to have a pretty good grounding in reality. Therefore, when he talks about going after terrorists in Pakistan, or how Israel is our ally which will be supported no matter what, or how we need to use clean coal, I assume these are compromises he has decided are necessary, not positions he actually thinks are right. What we don't know is whether he is playing a high-risk game to try to rescue this country and the world while pretending to be a centrist enough to get the power to pull it off--our Pollyanna fantasy--or long ago chose to become a power player and pretends to be a secret progressive in order to get the power to sell us out for the ruling class of which he and his family are now members. Even if it's the former, he won't necessarily pull it off. If Social Security is being put on the table at a time when the sharks are hungry, can he prevent them from attacking it? Sure, Bush failed to pull it off but that doesn't mean they've given it up.
Joshua Holland, I certainly hope you aren't counting on the payoff from this bet to finance your old age. You may find all you've paid into the system all your life has flown out, into the pockets of the same bastards who got the $700 billion.

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» RE: We can find out, Posted by: oregoncharles
Your Editor is Right
Posted by: nate on Feb 26, 2009 8:42 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I knew exactly what Obama meant when he started talking about "reforming" Social Security. He'll use his charisma to sell it to the American people. There will be no revolt, no riots. In fact,those who argue to preserve social security will be deemed "disloyal" and "unpatriotic." We have been asked to make "sacrifices." What do you think that means? Goodbye Medicare, Goodbye Social Security.

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» RE: Your Editor is Right Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Your Editor is Right Posted by: TheLimit
» RE: Your Editor is Right Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Your Editor is Right Posted by: TheLimit
One simple, cost effective way to bolster Social Security...
Posted by: RON_KING on Feb 26, 2009 9:30 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Currently it is illegal for Social Security funds to be invested in Treasury Notes. Make this happen and the future insolvency of the system can be put off for a few more years, maybe long enough for all the retired baby-boomers to die off. Of course, this would mean that the aristocracy who run this country would have lost a significant source of non-taxable income.

If Congress ever allowed the Social Security Trust funds to be “looted,” they wouldn’t cover the Fed’s expenses for more than a year, if that.

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» RE: Isn't this exactly backwards? Posted by: oregoncharles
framing error
Posted by: coberly on Feb 26, 2009 11:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the key to your argument is "substantive change". Obama knows better than to propose privatizing Social Security. But he is likely to propose modest changes that will have the effect of killing Social Security in the long run, while the people nod and smile.

The reason is that however well intentioned, Obama and his bi partisan expert advisors have a fundamental misunderstanding of Social Security. Being finance experts, they look at Social Security as a problem in finance. And they think the Trust Fund IS social security.

This leads to profound error.

Social Security was inteded to be an insurance policy for workers paid for by the workers themselves. It has always paid for itself. It can pay for itself forever with no effect whatsoever on "the deficit" or "government spending" or "the budget."

A time may come when the current "premium" (payroll tax) is not quite sufficient to pay for an adequate level of benefits over our exected much longer lifespan. The answer is not to raise the retirement age... an unbelievable cruelty to most people that "the young" are unlikely to understand until they are near sixty, getting old and hating their jobs. The answer is to explain to the young that a 2% increase in their payroll tax, starting in 2040, will enable them to retire on time with an adequate level of benefits. This has nothing to do with earning "interest" or any other finance type issue. Pay as you go with wage indexing eliminates the finance problem, eliminates the inflation problem, and having the system run by the government, but not paid for by the governmne, just assures that the insurance will never go away. Or at least need not go away if we will take the trouble to understand what a precious jewel we have in Social Security, and explain it to our leaders and their experts.

That 2% tax increase will amount to about 20 dollars per week on a paycheck that will by then have increased more than 300 dollars per week compared to today. and it will protect over 350 dollars a month in retirement benefits (out of a retirement check of about 1200 per month), when it will matter to you.

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» RE: framing error Posted by: TheLimit
Intentional Obscurity
Posted by: oregoncharles on Feb 26, 2009 11:26 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This:

"And we must also begin a conversation on how to do the same for Social Security, while creating tax-free universal savings accounts for all Americans."

Nobody knows what that means; since the second half is in the context of SS, it might mean substituting the accounts for Social Security, a la Bush. Such obscurity in a political speech is not accidental: it's a trial balloon, to find out if the "third rail" is still there.

Personally, I think Joshua's going to win this bet: neither Obama nor his handlers are dumb enough to (visibly) go after Social Security. Old folks don't riot, but they do vote; and their kids don't want to be stuck supporting Granny, either.

Even the USA's Joshua points to have devils in the details: can they be invested in the "markets?" I have personal experience on this, via a series of small IRA accounts: the one I never got around to "investing" is the only one that didn't shrink severely - years ago, not this year. If the Savings Accounts are restricted to INSURED accounts, they would be a way to underpin the actual, useful banking system. If they aren't, they'll go down the Wall Street drain.

First, abolish Wall Street. They're parasites, but they bankrolled O's campaign, so I'm not real hopeful about the devilish details.

So: is this a genuine outbreak of HOPE(tm), or is this the "Story of O"?

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» RE: Intentional Obscurity Posted by: TheLimit
Beware the Silver Tongue
Posted by: writerman on Feb 26, 2009 11:29 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Giving great, set-piece, speeches, is what Obama does best; only one can't really run a country or an empire like that. He really isn't a detail person. He thrives on the grand, symbolic, historical, rhetorical, sweep. It sounds great, as long as one doesnt' listen too closely, as long as one doesn't have a long attention span. In this respect his style is extraordinarily like Tony Blair's, lots of fine words, a performance to be savoured, but singularly lacking in any real substance.

I'm with Jan here. Obama is going after what's left of America's 'welfare state' provisions, one way or the other. It'll be a 'hard choice' he would rather not have to take, and in normal times he wouldn't dream of if, but these aren't normal times. The idea that Wallstreet will allow 'unproductive' Americans access to such a bounty, is absurd.

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» RE: Beware the Silver Tongue Posted by: TheLimit
» RE: Beware the Silver Tongue Posted by: TheLimit
FMAinMass
Posted by: FMABBI on Feb 26, 2009 3:53 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We all know that in a matter of 10-20 years, there will not be enough money to support SS commitments with all the baby boomers retiring in mass. We've known that for years.

Hopefully, Obama and congress can modify so as to keep the retiring boomers (of which I will be one) afloat although maybe not quite at the year we wish to retire or perhaps not quite at the level we want.

So prepare. Start saving and pay off those debts. Plan to retire later rather than sooner. Plan to move in with your kids or relatives. Plan to consult or continue working at some capacity your entire life.

This problem is not Obama's fault and if he can figure out a way to keep the "promise" even at a lower but secure level, I'll give him boatloads of credit.

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» RE: FMAinMass Posted by: TheLimit
» RE: No, Posted by: oregoncharles
They already raided Social Security
Posted by: jeffrey7 on Feb 26, 2009 4:41 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They pulled this bullshit back in the late 80's. Reagan did it to jumpstart the economy,then Bush 1 told everyone on Social Security they wouldn't get cost of living increases for the entire length of his presidency.Now they want to do it again. Screw them!!! Those asswipes in DC can't manage money in any form. Them and their super tax breaks for the rich and total mismanagement of our financial system make them bigger boobs than Dolly Parton has.

Taking care of the people should've been their first concern,but it's not and never has been. They only take care of the rich,that's it. Why else do you think the first 700 billion was given without promise of repayment.

Why else is there nothing for the real americans,you know,the folks that make less than 35,ooo a year,they get shit,shit on, made to eat shit,made to live in shitty neighborhoods all because they want to take care of their rich supporters,forget about the people who could only give their vote.

Raid Social Security ??? Forget about it. Big O and all his capitol hill butt-buddies own the damn presses,they can print it.

More than half of this country will get nothing from any stimulus package and if they raid Social Security then we must remove this farce of a governance for gross idiocy.

But go ahead and keep screwing the people because if you think the ten trillion we're in the hole now is a lot,just wait until they get the bill for the new civil war.

DC is run by millionaires,the congress is made up of millionaires,so what do you think they feel about your under 50,000 a year ass??

They think you're cannon fodder, or worse
a free thinking person,which is much more a threat to them then giving you a bailout.

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They already raided Social Security
Posted by: jeffrey7 on Feb 26, 2009 4:41 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They pulled this bullshit back in the late 80's. Reagan did it to jumpstart the economy,then Bush 1 told everyone on Social Security they wouldn't get cost of living increases for the entire length of his presidency.Now they want to do it again. Screw them!!! Those asswipes in DC can't manage money in any form. Them and their super tax breaks for the rich and total mismanagement of our financial system make them bigger boobs than Dolly Parton has.

Taking care of the people should've been their first concern,but it's not and never has been. They only take care of the rich,that's it. Why else do you think the first 700 billion was given without promise of repayment.

Why else is there nothing for the real americans,you know,the folks that make less than 35,ooo a year,they get shit,shit on, made to eat shit,made to live in shitty neighborhoods all because they want to take care of their rich supporters,forget about the people who could only give their vote.

Raid Social Security ??? Forget about it. Big O and all his capitol hill butt-buddies own the damn presses,they can print it.

More than half of this country will get nothing from any stimulus package and if they raid Social Security then we must remove this farce of a governance for gross idiocy.

But go ahead and keep screwing the people because if you think the ten trillion we're in the hole now is a lot,just wait until they get the bill for the new civil war.

DC is run by millionaires,the congress is made up of millionaires,so what do you think they feel about your under 50,000 a year ass??

They think you're cannon fodder, or worse
a free thinking person,which is much more a threat to them then giving you a bailout.

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Why Obama Must Loot Social Security
Posted by: lorenbliss on Feb 26, 2009 5:39 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are two reasons that, from the ruling class perspective, mandate looting Social Security. One is money. The other is that there is probably no more vivid proof of U.S. class struggle than the program’s history: the quicker it’s gone, the quicker our reduction to slavery will be complete.

Domestic political reality at the height of the 20th Century Depression was radically different than today. The cities mostly belonged to the Communist Party: built from the grassroots up, it was the best-organized party in U.S. history, by membership percentage the nation’s third largest ever, and it routinely elected mayors, city council members, legislators. Congressional representatives, even governors. It was also the definitive swing vote: if you won CP endorsement, as FDR did, you won office.

The CP was backed by the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and the most formidable intelligence organization on the planet. That era's ruling class nightmare was of revolution: the plutocrats dragged out of their mansions and shot amidst wildly joyous singing --“maiden fair raise your eyes/gaze upon the road we follow/far and away the road goes winding/look and see how merrily the road goes…” -- words that in Russian had carried Semyon Budyonny’s Red Cavalry to victory and that every U.S. Communist now knew by heart.

Meanwhile in the South and the rural U.S. generally, fascism -- the alliance between the U.S. ruling class and the German Nazi Party -- was nearly as powerful. (The Ku Klux Klan was the equivalent of Hitler’s Storm Troopers.) But the fascists were not quite strong enough to prevail: hence the sudden pretense of humanitarianism called the New Deal, of which Social Security was a key part.

While the undertow of Russian history kept the U.S.S.R. from fulfilling its democratic promise, its ideological presence nevertheless forced capitalism to adopt the very humanitarian measures its ruling class despise most: humanitarianism costs money, and the plutocrats want all money for themselves. Thus the purge of U.S. politics that began as soon as World War II ended: not just outlawing the CP, but discrediting all forms of socialism -- and (by fostering the most savage anti-intellectuality in human history), methodically destroying any intelligentsia where such ideologies might take root.

When the U.S.S.R. died, there was no longer any need for pretend humanitarianism. Nor was there any real U.S. Left. Thus the ruling class unleashed its pent-up greed via “deregulation” and looted the nation with tyrannosauric fury.

Social Security is merely (the next) obvious target.

As to the fate of the U.S. working class -- all of us who are not part of the ruling class -- we are like the people of a used-up West Virginia coal town: its resources gone, its mountains destroyed by strip mining, its environment hopelessly poisoned, we its “human capital” (a term the ruling class reclaimed from the garbage of slavery and serfdom) have been abandoned as unprofitable and condemned to euthanasia by neglect.

Obama in this context is merely the supervisor of the poorhouse to which we have been sent to die. His job -- for which his campaign was paid by the greatest ruling-class political outlay in history -- is to make sure we are slain with minimum fuss. His election was the triumph of the most Machiavellian political strategy ever: the key to his victory was the racist assumption that African-Americans lean Left; his “change we can believe in” therefore remained undefined throughout the campaign. Now we are learning the only “change” is in the identities and euphemisms of oppression. The national purpose -- propagation of capitalism, protection of its ruling class, subjugation of all the rest of us -- remains the same whether its personification is George Bush or Barack Obama.

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SS is null and void at this point given our hostility towards the elderly already. :.(
Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield on Feb 26, 2009 7:47 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Like Roe v Wade, Social Security is slowly but steadily getting chipped away at right under our noses. And once China shackles America for good, it's all over but then again they're slowly doing that too right under our noses !

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Holland has us rolling the dice at Vegas with him, but...?
Posted by: logansafi on Feb 27, 2009 11:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...The reasons he states that Obama won't attack SS simply add up to the fact that Holland thinks Obama wants to be a 2 term President!?! Obama's war making will sink him anyway though, since he plans to keep the US in Iraq even! What second term?

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