In and of itself isn't bad. But facts are facts. Abstinence only education is the problem, not abstinence itself. It is incredibly unrealistic to expect a bunch of hormone ridden teenagers to go out into the world with no real education on how their body works and not figure it out on their own. Yeah a few will abstain but most will not.

Sending kids out into the world with a half assed pipe dream to protect them rather than educating them is no different from handing them a loaded gun and telling them "Now don't blow your leg off." without telling them about how a safety works.

And the statistics show it, which is the funny part. No matter how much money you pump into this nonsense, kids are still gonna be kids. Kids have always fooled around. No matter how many punishments or commandments or biblical passages you hang over their heads. It is still going to happen. So the most responsible thing to do is educate them on the dangers -here and now-, show that you support and love them and then hope they make good decisions. Ultimately some will and some won't. If my daughter screws up and ends up having sex early and ends up dying by the time she's 30 of cervical cancer because I refused to vaccinate her or tell her about condoms then that's MY fault not hers. I know that I couldn't live with that and I certainly wouldn't want to have the death of someone else's child on my hands for the same reason.

It's time we woke up from this delusional world we live in and start facing reality. The dangers of the world do not just go away if you pretend they don't exist. If that were the case Bin Laden wouldn't still be releasing tapes.

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Did you see the little flash of pain on her face when the interviewer asked what Levi was up to these days?

"Uh ... working with his Dad ..."

They're not going to be together.

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nm

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Ugly inside...there's nothing worse.

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FREE AMERICA

REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY

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...to keep herself in the press?
Now she's pimping out her daughter again in an attempt to reinvent herself!

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Stop being so mean to the poor kid. She spoke out honestly and made a good point. She has enough on her plate without having to deal with hateful snarky remarks about her choices, her religion and her mother. I'm not a Sarah Palin fan, but I see nothing redeeming in being hateful toward Bristol.

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I admire Bristol for standing up and saying what she has said, its a shame she wasn't encouraged to really speak her mind. I think a lot of her hesitation was the fact that she had things she wanted to say but thought would upset the host, her mother and fox itself.

Abstinence isn't bad, its just that its an ideal to be aimed for rather than the norm that some people fail to make. Teaching abstinence to kids is fine (I know I will be telling my daughter(s) not to have sex), but at the sametime I realise that no matter my feelings they are going to grow into young women they are going to have sex... So whilst I might encourage abstinence I am damn sure going to make sure that when they do have sex they know how to do it safely!

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A recent study at Aberdeen University showed that "socio-economic disadvantage, disrupted family structure and limited education appear to be most consistently related to teenage pregnancy."

When we look at the figures - 52/1000 in the USA, 30/1000 in the UK, notorious for hanging on to the coat-tails of the USA, and then compare them to Korea, Japan, Switzerland, Netherlands and Sweden, all of which have a rate of less than 7/1000, it certainly seems that economic and social conditions have a strong affect.
However, the four progressive countries of Europe - the above two with Denmark and Norway who are only slightly behind - also have far better sexual health education and acceptance of contraceptive practices for unmarried sexually active girls. The Aberdeen study was doubtful about this, but the backwardness of the USA and the UK and their air of prudish disapproval suggests a link that has not yet been sufficiently studied.

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She admitted on TV that her life is ruined because of the baby. She would have preferred to have the kid at a much much later time. Bristol may have wanted to abort the fetus for all the right and practical reasons but certain pressure from her rightwing family forced her to keep this unplanned infant. She claimed it was her choice to have the kid. But that was not true.

Mommy Sarah Palin said she was lucky to have a large family, and money, to help care for the new arrival. That's a kinda luck a vast majority of unwed moms don't have.

All I saw was sadness and regret all over her face. It was so telling.

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in afghanistan are hundreds of girls from 10 to 14 years allready together with their husbands.Some of 60)

maybe the shiteislamic solution; a temporary marriage for the time on college of let us say 5 years with her boyfriend .

As usual two things are mixed;
sexual pleasure for young people
care of babies.

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At least she can see what her mother can't. I was just discussing this with my husband, and it's tacky to say it, but maybe if instead of getting pregnant her daughter contracted HIV, the governor might be singing a different tune. Condoms aren't just about preventing unwanted pregnancy, but also about reducing the spread of STDs. Not having sex before you are ready is smart, and even when you're sexually active, if it becomes too emotionally complicated, then it might be time to take a break from sex. Call it abstinence or whatever. But in order to differentiate those feelings and drives from puritan guilt and unscientific superstitions and fears education is essential. Enter comprehensive sex ed. Unprotected sex makes babies and spreads disease (assuming that people too cool to wear condoms are also too cool to get tested or get the HPV vaccine). You avoid those things by not having sex or by using protection. Those are the choices. It's got to be a violation of some human right for kids to be mislead about condoms and discouraged to use them. Educators need to work together to find a way to illustrate that teaching safe condom use isn't the same thing as encouraging teens to have sex. They were going to anyway. Ask Bristol.

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"A decent society doesn't spent $70 billion on an upper-class tax cut and then cut costs around around the edges by eliminating public health programs that save the lives of the working poor and ease the lives of the chronically ill,"

Since when does not giving ADDITIONAL funds through a stimulus plan equal cutting and eliminating public health programs? I didn't see anything in the stimulus package that said it was cutting any programs, it simply didn't give extra money to those programs and now people are whining about it. I, for one, am completely sick of this society of bailouts and handouts that we are turning in to. I realize that there are certain groups and organizations that need assistance, but now we have everyone and their mother standing in line to get their share, whether they need it or not.

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What if she wasn't a rich brat. What if the father was her father, or a stranger who raped her. What if she had no one to turn to for help.What if she was single, and in school, working a part time job? If you have an unwanted child,don't have an abortion, send it to Sarah.

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"...everyone should be abstinent or whatever,"

I see she is as illiterate as her mother.

Anyway, notice the speed with which the righteous apply some moral relativism when the issue hits home. Where was all this honesty, compassion, and reality-embracing when it was my/your sister/daughter/niece/friend?

A fact they can't hide is that two months AFTER the baby's birth, the parents are still not married. Waiting for June and planning a big wedding? You'd think that the child being conceived out of wedlock would be bad enough for them; the child being born out of wedlock was just unnecessary. How will they justify that to their right-wing followers?

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"We've got serious diseases out there, and we need to protect ourselves against them."

Huffman says numerous studies have shown that condom use can greatly reduce the chance of contracting an STD, including HIV/AIDS. He notes that the recent removal of funding for condom distribution from the federal economic stimulus bill was understandable, albeit disturbing.

"What was really disappointing to us, was to see that something that saves healthcare costs down the road was railed against by some."

Estimates of the number of new STD infections in the United States every year range from 12 to 19 million.

Could somebody please tell me what Chris Matthews has against saving money by preventing disease?

I can't think of a better way to save money, yet he used his influence to sink that part of the bill. Why?

Did he want MORE teen pregnancies? Or more disease?

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Along with other self-destructive, extinction-oriented owning-class horseshit "adults" in mainstream society have sold their kids and mine, "abstinence" is the most self-defeating and self-destructive lie of all. It violates our basic human-ness, it defies biology and logic and most of all you can see it in the eyes of kids like Bristol when she hems and haws and can't quite say it, then when she repeats the lie as if it's what she believes in but fundamentally in every pore of her being knows it's a lie, the truth shows through and she equivocates at best, "it's unrealistic."

Of course it is, honey, because every adult around you has lied to you and betrayed you. You are human. Human beings are sexual. Any "education" to the contrary is propaganda designed to hurt you.

Every time I see a kid parrot this shit, my guts hurt and my heart breaks.

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for Comprehensive Sex-Ed to be brought back to school health class!!

teens should wait, but let's give them the information they need before they become sexually active.

they deserve honest, true information, don't they?

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I just uh..wanted..to like, point out that..ummm like, the only thing Ms. Palin must have abstained from is a friggin speech class.

Sorry, I'm sure she was just nervous, but she definitely takes after her mother in not being to formulate a complete sentence without uttering a streak of valleygirlisms and umm-uhhs.

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Mrs. Palin was counting on Bristol to care for her own special needs child. Now Bristol's time is going to be split with her own baby.

That's how large families cope. The oldest girl becomes the everlasting baby sitter until she leaves home. Then the next in line gets the job. I was friends with a girl who married a guy when she was 16 to a guy 20 years her senior to get out of being mommy jr. to her 7 siblings.

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Oh the Wholey rollers have been outwitted by a high schooler! Big surprise.
She dared remind people it's called 'Pro Choice' , not 'pro abortion'. Another small whole in their Illogically propaganda.
She Dared even remind people what dreams are now out of reach- at least until her child is older. But regardless those 'wild oats' years will not be had when your a 26 yr old parent.
What those of Us who support Choice really want is to not create a situation where a choice must be made. We want to reduce or elimate the quandry of an Unwanted pregancy to begin with- through realistic education and sound birth control methods.
don't tell me yu give a shit about unborn children if you only support abstintence education- you are encouraging and perpetuating not only pregnancy , but also abortion.
These idiots are only intersted in ONE Birth. Evidenced from their concerns about what happens to these children after birth, throughout their lives, in their senior years- along with th eenvironment which sustains All Life....Drill Baby Drill?Obviously dont' give a shit about global Warming, destruction of nature or habitates or the life forms it suppports.
What is also indictive of their Utter lack of Faith is the fact they think God need their assisatnce in Bringing forth a 'Savior'...they don't call him the 'Almighty' for nothing, folks.
And what is the 'design' they dream this 'Savior' will be fulfilled- Armegeddon.Hell their ready to get the ball started without the 'Savior' or God. apaprently God is not working fast enough to meet their self indulgent time line.Hagee et al are ready to push the schedule by pre-emptively striking Iran. Pure Arrogance, heretical? Seems these Religious Fanatics are more interested in Death and Destruction than life and Stewardship.
and Which Entity would be Thrilled (served) by their views and actions..."could it be Satan?"
Having a sister who had two daughters out of wedlock at a time she could ahve chosen to do otherwise, I wish Bristol Well and hope her road is not as hard as most others who face such responsiblities alone.You Cetainly did not choose a periless path. Of Course neither do those who think every year about the path they choose not to take- Not an easily forgotten choice either.Best Wishes,Bristol!

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Harlan Ellison once wrote that America is the country where one can wach the TV (glass teat) with a cold beer in one hand and a warm tit in the other.

I would add that it's also the place where minds are encouraged to be closed, and legs open.

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God we that afraid of sexuality. Especially female sexuality. There are ways to prevent any so-called consequences. So much fuss over a little roll in the hay.

Abstince can happen. I've been doing it for a couple years now. Not my idea though. Still eventually you get depressed and that helps kill the sex drive :) God's way of helping you cope.

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Ms. Bristol is typical of the children of the "better class", those parents divorced from reality by virtue of their social isolation from the average society on account of wherewithal (OK, money). This is the class of people who "know better" and make sure that their kids know it.

Sadly, they are really dysfunctional people, and our crappy social and economic circumstances is the evidence screaming in our faces every day.

Word to the wise: approach everything as if you know nothing.

Lord, 'tis 'ard to be 'umble.

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Watching and listening to Bristol disagree with her nutty mother, amusing.
Having her bad-mouth rethugs and religious loonies, encouraging.
Seeing this happen on faux "news", PRICELESS!

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If abstinence is not realistic, how come it was when I was a kid? All this is, is an excuse for what she, and others did/do, because they are have no respect for themselves, or others. People had hormones just like today, but people had respect. Bristol just wants to get back at it. So, lets all throw our legs in the air for Bristol Palin!

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I'm a pro-life Democrat. I also believe in a complete separation of church and state. I've contributed heavily to Americans United for Separation of Church and State, while asking Rev. Barry Lynn (Executive Director) to keep the organization neutral on this divisive issue.

Writer and activist Jean Blackwood, in the July 1993 issue of Harmony: Voices for a Just Future, a "consistent-ethic" publication on the religious Left, notes:

"Many of the young people who make up the animal rights and environmental movement grew up with pro-abortion rhetoric in their ears. They can make the mental shift from banning CFCs, outlawing whaling, and abolishing clearcuts to 'a woman's right to choose' with such alacrity that one might suspect no self-contradiction was involved."

For many young people today, abortion is just another choice; just another form of birth control. Will they be more inclined to listen to comprehensive sex education that doesn't intrude upon their private life, or a set of unprovable religious beliefs that does?

There ARE non-traditional pro-life groups that make up "The Left Side of the March" on the March on Washington, every January 22nd, in D.C.: Vegans for Life, Democrats for Life, Feminists for Life, the Pro-Life Alliance of Gays and Lesbians (PLAGAL), etc. I'm not sure if Atheists for Life is included, but Rachel MacNair, a Quaker pacifist, vegan, psychology professor and past president of Feminists For Life, points out that there are pro-life atheists who argue that since there is no afterlife, life is especially precious.

(This argument is also used by Reverend Andrew Linzey in his 1987 book, Christianity and the Rights of Animals against Christians who claim animals don't have souls: if there is no afterlife for animals and they are not to be compensated in an afterlife for the sufferings we inflict upon them now, then there is no justification for causing them pain.)

My friend James Dawson, a practicing Theravadin Buddhist, used to publish Live and Let Live, a pro-life, animal rights, Libertarian 'zine. Someone wrote in, and referred to Libertarians as "Republicans who do drugs." (Rachel MacNair broke up laughing when I told her this!) Shay Van Vliemen, President of Vegans for Life, wrote on an e-mail list for pro-life vegetarians and vegans in the late 1990s, that she doesn't expect to see a vegan president in her lifetime--she would just be glad to have a president who would work to overturn Roe v. Wade. And she insisted she is NOT a Republican, but a Libertarian.

Respected pro-life columnist Nat Hentoff, of The Village Voice, is a self-described "liberal Jewish atheist". Not your stereotypical pro-lifer! When Dr. Bernard Nathanson, a physician who presided over some 60,000 abortions before changing sides on the issue, wrote Aborting America in 1979, he was an atheist. He has since become a Christian. The pro-life movement desperately needs is religious diversity. It's already stereotyped as being Christian (born again, Catholic, fundamentalist, etc.). I mentioned this to James Dawson when he was about to write to Dr. Nathanson about information on contraception. It caused James to write to Doris Gordon of Libertarians for Life (who, like Hentoff, is also a Jewish atheist) for the information.

The pro-life movement will have to become completely secular, as it attempts to convince the American public, the courts, the legislatures, universities, philosophers, ethicists, etc. that human zygotes and embryos should be regarded as legal persons. (Conversely, the animal rights movement is secular and nonsectarian, but will need the inspiration, blessings and support of organized religion to help end injustices towards animals.)

Had Dennis Kucinich remained pro-life, I would have voted for him. There are many pro-life liberals and non-traditional pro-lifers.

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Abstinence-only education is a total crock and doesnt work. The problem here is.. kids that plan to be abstinent wont really be paying attention in sex ed class anyway and the ones that arent abstinent.. well.. their knowledge goes far beyond what the teachers are willing to talk about!

Herein lies the problem. As soon as said abstinent-only-track kid gets raped or loses their virginity in a less than optimal condition.. they feel like human garbage. You're teaching humans to feel like trash and delay parenthood for as long as they possibly can (even when they're 30, they'll still feel that way). Then when a high percentage of these people can't conceive because they're too old.. they feel like garbage again because they cant procreate. BRAVO! That's how you ruin a life.

No, I dont think a lady who has a kid in her teens has ruined her life. Thats total horseshit. Maybe if a highschool education actually primed you with real-world skills.. these young moms wouldnt have trouble supporting their children. I think there should be fast-track programs for all high school kids to learn real skills. It's the only way we'll be competitive in the global jobs market.

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Although I agree that abstinence-only education is a crock and waste of tax dollars, I take issue with Alternet's stance that Medicaid should cover birth control. Why the heck should this welfare program be expanded so that money is taken from one person to pay for another's birth control? Responsibility for BC rests with the individual, not the government and not the taxpayers.

Whatever happened to the concept of personal responsibility? I'd sure like to see Alternet take a stance on THAT for a change.

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Marc Maron's thoughtful analysis on Bristol Palin's interview with Fox News.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hb5DupgMkMI

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