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Nationalizing the Banks Seems Inevitable: How Bad Does It Have to Get First?

By Joshua Holland, AlterNet. Posted February 16, 2009.


Failure to act decisively over the collapse of our banking system could mire the US in a protracted slump, like Japan's "lost decade" in the '90s.

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There is a bottom-line to the banking crisis which the Obama administration appears intent on trying to avoid: some number of financial giants are simply insolvent. A recent analysis by NYU economist Nouriel Roubini -- known as "Doctor Doom" for his dire predictions about the collapse of the financial trading system, predictions that have since become painfully true -- estimated that the losses facing the American financial sector will reach $3.6 trillion dollars.

In the past, governments, including that of the first Bush administration during the savings and loans failures of the late 1980s, have taken over insolvent institutions that were judged to be "too big to fail." They fired most of the management teams, wiped out the banks' shareholders, protected depositors, and sold off the institutions assets in an orderly way, minimizing the shock to the larger economy.

Following the floundering, piece-meal interventions presided over by former Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson, the chorus calling for nationalization has grown. Once considered a radical move, even fiscal conservatives like Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC), have suggested that this might be the least-expensive route to saving a financial system on the brink of collapse. On ABC's This Week, Graham said, "This idea of nationalizing banks is not comfortable. But I think we've got so many toxic assets spread throughout the banking and financial community, throughout the world, that we're going to have to do something that no one ever envisioned a year ago." "I would not take off [the table]  the idea of nationalizing the banks," he concluded.

But so far, the Obama administration has done exactly that, and while the president has said that his team is loathe to nationalize falling financial giants because of the complexities involved, a closer look suggests that his team is avoiding the move on ideological grounds rather than practical considerations. The New York Times reports, "President Obama's top aides have steered clear of the word entirely," and the Washington Post notes, "Administration officials are … trying to offer federal assistance to financial firms without nationalizing them outright, according to a source who has been in contact with senior Treasury officials." Obama's Treasury Secretary, Tim Geithner, told reporters, "We have a financial system that is run by private shareholders, managed by private institutions, and we'd like to do our best to preserve that system."

But they may not end up having a choice. Contrary to Graham's assertion, many of the "toxic assets" we're hearing so much about these days are concentrated in a handful of institutions, and the first step of the plan outlined last week -- with sparse details -- by Geithner is to dig into these institutions' books and see exactly how healthy or unhealthy they really are. Some see that as a first step to nationalization, even if it were to go by another name -- "restructuring" or "receivership."

But the painful but unavoidable reality of the financial crisis is that every dollar spent trying to prop up a failing bank is just good money thrown after bad; a taxpayer rip-off, short and sweet. Geithner is proposing a vague "public-private partnership" that will somehow raise enough capital to ease the crunch. Roubini argues that "the plan won't solve our financial woes, because it assumes that the system is solvent." Economist Paul Krugman wrote that the political establishment has "become devotees of a new kind of voodoo [economics]: the belief that by performing elaborate financial rituals we can keep dead banks walking." Goldman Sachs' economists estimate that those rituals might cost up to $4 trillion to perform.


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Joshua Holland is an editor and senior writer at AlterNet.

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View:
Our Fate Would Be Far Worse Than Japan's
Posted by: mmckinl on Feb 16, 2009 12:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Failure to act decisively over the collapse of our banking system could mire the US in a protracted slump, like Japan's "lost decade" in the '90s." ~Joshua Holland ...

It will be far, far worse. The trouble with even considering the Japanese example is that we are NOT Japan.

The current trajectory of the Obama Administration will take us to massive failure of the economy. Obama has already warned about the "lost decade" of Japan where Zombie banks sucked there economy dry for over a decade, but that's exactly where we are headed!

The trouble with even considering the Japanese example is that we are NOT Japan. What do I mean? Well Japan had a huge trade surplus to bring capital back home, a high savings rate, much higher than ours and a policy of almost guaranteed employment that was sustained by their export economy. Japan despite these deflationary troubles had an unemployment rate below 4%. Should we use the Japanese model our base unemployment will skyrocket to 15% and our under employment rate 25%. Our GDP won't stagnate, it will plummet.

How do we reconcile the insolvent banks? That's structurally easy but politically almost impossible at least for the moment. It is called the "Good Bank" Plan".

The "Good Bank Plan" would split the bank giving the share and bond holders the "assets" and the FDIC would take the operations and the depositors. The FDIC would then make the bank solvent and sell the bank when the economy settled down. The share and bond holders would manage their "assets" in a holding company with the goal of liquidation at the highest price possible.

With the "Good Bank Plan" insolvent banks are made solvent while the famous "toxic" assets are given to the previous owners to value for themselves in the market. And that's how we get out of the Zombie Bank syndrome that crippled Japan for over a decade and that will crush our economy and employment for 10 to 15 years to come.

The "Good Bank Plan" ... they take the crap and we take the operations. It's the quickest, fairest and most efficient way to stop the hemorrhaging and begin to restore trust.

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Socialist America
Posted by: Tom Degan on Feb 16, 2009 2:59 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The longtime dream of many an ardent lefty seems to be coming to pass. And to think it would be handed to them on a silver platter by the uber right. What's next? I'm reminded of the old Kinks song from the Preservation Act album:

And we will nationalize the wealthy companies
And all the directors will be answerable to be
There'll be no shirking of responsibility
So workers of the nation unite
I'm your man
OH, GOD! HOW I LOVE THIS LAND!

You get the idea.

Happy Birthday, Mr. Lincoln

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY

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One more thing:
Posted by: Tom Degan on Feb 16, 2009 3:06 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From this morning's Paul Krugman column in the New York Times:

"The odds are that the legacy of our time of illusion — our decade at Bernie’s — will be a long, painful slump."

Truer words have not been spoken in a very long time, Mr. Paul. What mystifies me more than anything is is the reaction of so many of my fellow countrymen and woman to what as happened to our once great nation. Most people, I believe, are totally oblivious to the gravity of our present situation. It's as if they believe this is only a temporary snafu that will be over soon and that the markets will magically correct themselves.

We'll be lucky if this lasts a mere decade.

Just remember one undeniable fact the next time you go to the polls: While there are more than a few Democrats at whose doorstep the blame for this catastrophe may be properly and fairly laid, it was the Republicans that did this to you. Don't you dare forget it.

Crappy days are here again.

"The Rant" by Tom Degan

— Tom Degan, Goshen, NY

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» RE: One more thing: Posted by: Shehova
» I like your spirit Posted by: freelyb
» RE: One more thing: Posted by: JSquercia
FACIST AMERICA the Gullible
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on Feb 16, 2009 3:46 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are no "good assets". The "FED" rigged banking system is hundreds of trillions of dollars into the red. There is no "pragmatic approach" that Obama as puppet of the Organized Corporate Crime ruling class could promote that would be good for the nation.

What Obama does will be good for the Fascist criminals that created the crisis and bought and brought him to pretend "power" at the Washington-MSM toady circus.

In other words, this Alternet story is another in an endless litany of strawman denial and useless make-believe propaganda. The only action that would have a hope of remaking the utterly corrupt status quo is to abolish the private Ponzi trap "Federal Reserve" Corp (not federal, minus zero reserves) that aided and abetted the global financial meltdown from the start. (virtually all of Obama's "advisors" and cabinet are from the "FED" cooked banking system)

However, that would be like the captain of a pirate ship volunteering to turn over his plunder extortion fleet to the Port Royal authorities. It will not happen absent informed, consistent pressure. And where would that informed pressure come from with articles like this promoting more decoy ignorance on the core issue?

Most Americans are hopelessly brainwashed and dead ignorant on the core issues at stake.

The truth is, America has officially been a closet Fascist nation since 1913 at the creation of the "FED". The closet has opened on 9/11 with its Orwellian coverup and genocide 9/11 "war on terror". Now The grotesque face of the beast that owns the west is on full display as the ruling class lackey MSM and Washington axis discard one lie after the next to keep a lid on the sting.

At this point, even the most naive American Idol watcher can see a bankrupt empire based on no more than lies and deception. But it's too late. America has given up its soul and future to a junta of overclass criminals that will now use it to disguise "nationalization" as an alibi to concentrate yet more power into their bloody hands.

For after all, the definition of Fascism coined and enforced by Mussolini is the merger of state and corporate power with corporate power in command.

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» RE: FACIST AMERICA the Gullible Posted by: Skunkatthepicnic
americans are sometimes slow on the uptake
Posted by: masthead on Feb 16, 2009 3:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
it’s a global financial meltdown not just a national one and the u.s. will require international co-operation from the g7, an opportunity Geithner missed in Rome, it’s like a symphony, countries playing their own music and looking for political advantages. we need a Roosevelt now but i understand Lincoln is more Obama’s hero but even if the u.s. had a Roosevelt and a Harry Hopkins and a Jesse Jones to rebuild the financial system we don’t have a post-WWII handy to re-grow the economy, only an expensive mess in the middle east and another Afhgan war build-up coming. fatal for a country that’s printing money that doesn’t exist.

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How about ETF's for toxic assets?
Posted by: MyLeftFoot on Feb 16, 2009 5:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.cnbc.com/id/29182320

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Otto .
Posted by: otto on Feb 16, 2009 5:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's the only way to go. Thanks for calling a spade a spade, Josh.

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Fruits of the Republican Revolution
Posted by: Perry Logan on Feb 16, 2009 5:19 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So--the Republican Revolution has ended with nationalization of the banks.

This proves there is a God.

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here's where my brain is stuck...
Posted by: ellie on Feb 16, 2009 5:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
small, local banks seem to be doing fair, credit unions are giving away free $$ from 2008 profits to all members around here... loved the dividend surprise deposited in our accounts!!!

the Japan model is no longer the 'lost decade' with a slow recovery at the end... they are in big trouble again as of this morning, so history tells us that the blip of profitability for them didn't make it 10 years...

let the big boys go and drown... they are insolvent!!! cut off the $$... everyone who got tax $$ under wombat's watch and still is whining for more $$ goes into receivership... put Glass Segall back in play and quit messing around...

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Let Them Go Bankrupt
Posted by: left_libertarian on Feb 16, 2009 5:53 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But first.
1 - Get back all 'bail-out' money

2 - Get a forensics team to pour over their books for criminal activity. You know that their books were cooked.

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» RE: Let Them Go Bankrupt Posted by: ellie
» RE: Let Them Go Bankrupt Posted by: mmckinl
Eventually prices will fall until they reflect fair value
Posted by: phindrup on Feb 16, 2009 6:08 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What I find unbelievable is that anybody believes that the financial system as trumpeted by the US, is worth even a dollar in an attempt to save it.
Kill it off. Devise a more equitable system that more evenly spreads the real wealth amongst all nations. Accept the different nations will run different systems — systems that protect their people.

‘The foreclosure crisis is spreading, and foreclosed properties fuel a vicious cycle, dragging down real estate prices in the areas where they're concentrated, which in turn puts more homeowners "under water".

Of course bubble ‘values’ are falling! The problem is that the price of everything has been inflated far beyond what is in fact value, and things are returning to a level of real value.

Rejoice in the fact.

The bad news is that the ‘markets’ are behaving exactly as they do in a ‘top’. Nobody can see any reason for the market advancing, and although they can see no underpinning value, they haven’t yet accepted the fact that the market will return to fair value.

Hold onto your hats and prepare for the crash!

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Allow complicit government to nationalize?
Posted by: windseye on Feb 16, 2009 6:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Are you seriously suggesting that those in the government who are complicit in creating the massive hedge fund fiasco be involved in "saving" the banking system by nationalizing? The same folks (Sommers et al) who engineered the removal of the Glas-Stegal act allowing commercial banks to get into the insurance and investment business? Shades of the RTC hiring those in the commercial real estate and savings and loan industries to "save" us from a similar debacle back in the ancient times of the late '80s.

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WATCH THIS LINK
Posted by: drone on Feb 16, 2009 8:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm posting this because the "privacy center" embed in the text is apparently a phisher according to other posts on other threads. this used to be "Jess", and if you hover your cursor over the link, you'll see there is no substantive domain, just an anonymous tool utility. In short, DON'T CLICK!

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RE: SAd but true; what's sad is privacy theft masquerading as, what?
Posted by: Beck on Feb 16, 2009 8:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Privacy center"?

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Don't click on that link (IDENTITY THEFT!)
Posted by: GuitarBill on Feb 16, 2009 9:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This asshole is not trying to protect your privacy; he's trying to steal your identity.

If you click on his "Privacy Center" hyperlink, the server the link points to will install a keylogger on your computer, which is used to steal your credit card number, SSN, etc.

Please, report the comment to Alternet's staff.

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» RE: Thanks Quannah (N/A) Posted by: channing
nationalize the money supply
Posted by: HANGTRAITORS on Feb 16, 2009 7:07 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
get private banks out of fractional reserve lending and abolish money as debt... the governemnt should leave the private lending institutions to do their real job of investing in the community

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What exactly does this mean?
Posted by: orda on Feb 16, 2009 7:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"...it came close to bringing down the entire global financial system with it."

What would that entail? I don't think most people even know what this means or there would be more of a stink.

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» RE: And what is the connection? Posted by: oregoncharles
All is futile without ending the Federal Reserve Bank
Posted by: 911FalseFlag on Feb 16, 2009 7:37 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The "powers that be" who stole the 2000 and 2004 election did not have to steal this one since they had already groomed both candidates to do their bidding.

During the campaign,it was clear to me that Obama had struck a deal with the "powers that be" that he would not Interfere with the military-industrial oil private central bankers complex. He made it clear that he thought the war on terror was legitimate and that the official 9/11 conspiracy theory was basically accurate. He made it clear that he would use military force against Iran when he spoke before AIPAC. He made it clear that he was in the pocket of the Israeli lobby. He never mentioned anything about electronic voting machines stealing presidential elections.

Now, after he has been elected, his appointments make it clear that he will do nothing about the fake war on terror, electronic voting machines, the elimination of the Federal Reserve Bank and the commencement of the federal government again printing our money, the prosecution of the Bush administration for war crimes, treason, 9/11 and mass murder.
It'll be business as usual since the "powers that be" will not have it any other way. Why would they give up the control that they gained by using Bush as their lackey.

For many articles and videos on these topics, go to www.911insidejob.net

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Ah, bankers' greed versus taxpayer's gimme...
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Feb 16, 2009 7:40 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So, yes: it absolutely makes me angry that my tax dollars are going to bail out banks who made stupid loans to folks who had No Income, No Job, and No Assets or some deficit in the three. These are the very bankers who made these loans and then inevitably repackaged them to brokers on the implicit guarantee of the government coffers. Yeah, they should fail, and it makes me angry that when I screw up, I can get fired, but when banks screw up, they go to their Congresscritters.

Would it help to put the control of these banks in the hands of financially disinterested government employees? Folks--on the complete opposite spectrum--who don't give a damn about whether a loan is paid or not, because their "bank" is supported by the same accounts that pay our military, our IRS, our medicare accounts?

Maybe.

Perhaps, however, it is time to simply apply anti-trust measures to banks. Force them to work locally, where the loans they make will determine whether they exist next year or not.

Maybe more--not less--scrutiny might be the best medicine, after all.

The other argument, whether I should want to buy "toxic assets" with my damn money that I make and send to my Congresscritters, ought to be a no-brainer. I don't buy lottery tickets, by the way, either.

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White House Allowed Predatory Lending
Posted by: 911FalseFlag on Feb 16, 2009 7:44 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Watch the following video which explains why Eliot Spitzer was politically assassinated. He wrote an editorial in the Washington Post three weeks before his assassination in which he pointed a finger at the White House. The White House had stopped any state attorney generals from prosecuting mortgage companies for predatory lending.


go to my website page as follows and scroll down to find the video on the political assassination of Eliot Spitzer.

http://bushstole04.com/monetarysystem/fed_embed_video.htm
Go to 911inside job.net for many more articles and videos

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Opinion piece From the International Herald Tribune
Posted by: Defenestrator on Feb 16, 2009 8:30 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Chorus grows: Nationalize the banks

"When I talk to experts, after about two minutes they say, 'We should just nationalize,"' said Simon Johnson, a banking expert at the Sloan School of Business at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. "That tells me that the consensus is moving in this direction, and we are all just afraid to say it."

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a new system
Posted by: Stew on Feb 16, 2009 8:37 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Whether we crumble completely or we begin to institute change, we will have to change from an economic system based on money. At this point in human societal evolution a monetary based economic system is as archaic as burning finite, toxic natural resources for power and fuel. The current global system props up entire industries that offer no real value to humankind, damage egalitarian principles of democracy, create wars, and support archaic colonialism power structures. Painful no matter how we get there but get there we will.

http://www.thevenusproject.com/

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Basis for an economy?
Posted by: symcokid on Feb 16, 2009 8:56 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What in to hell kind of basis for an economy do we have if it is totally (mostly) dependent upon consumerism and credit? This doesn't even make sense, but then what does make sense in today's whacked out world?

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Won't happen
Posted by: SteveO on Feb 16, 2009 10:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not with Summers and Geithner in charge. They are too tied the the crooks who made this mess to begin with. They are as tied to their ideology/world view as the neo-cons are so they can't see nationalization as the solution.

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» RE: Then again, Posted by: oregoncharles
let the party begin
Posted by: linecrosser on Feb 16, 2009 10:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All this could have been avoided long ago by never turning the country's economy over to the ultra private hands of the FEDERAL RESERVE. FREEZE SEIZE AND STERILIZE. We need to remove their DNA from the planet.

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Bush-Mafia-Think: "Too big to fail" same as "Preemptive Defense", Rove in Bloom
Posted by: channing on Feb 16, 2009 10:53 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When the Bush-Mafia stole the 2000 elections it wasn''t intended as an exercise in megalomania and self-aggrandizement, but a serious effort to steal the nation's wealth and authority away from the people, a modern coup of the USA. Employing every tactic of the criminal underworld learned through decades of observation and practice-runs, the world's worst, most deceitful and despicable characters hijacked the United States of America and nearly all she's worth. This is how they did it:

1. Stealing elections by manipulating every vote accessible through every means possible to install criminals at all levels of federal, state and local government and plowing limitless millions against lone-voices crying "injustice" etc.,.

2. Appointing Criminals to the Justice Department and every Federal Agency and developing an overarching Cover-Strategy that would eliminate independent interference in the coup's Master Plan.

3. Signing hundreds of Dictator-Authorizing Executive Orders in front of banners of Patriotism, Chinese-Made American Flags and cloaked in the deception of radical extremist Christian language and their god-appointed mouth-pieces.

4. Deregulation and Tax-Cuts for Borderless-Billionaires en-mass in every and all endeavors private and public allowing profiteering at obscene levels not heard of since the passing of the major monarchies of the world. The new monarchs, this Borderless-Billionaire class behind Bush-Mafia, "I call you my base", as he put it, were now free to manipulate energy, housing, big-media, inside and outside dealing, ghost-investments, employee intimidation and all the rest free of the threat of accountability. Defeating all environmental protections, appointing criminal food-barons to oversee agriculture across the board typified by Mr. "Peanut Corp", stonewalling FOIA and Peer-Review, Classify, Classify, Classify like a force-field.

5. Trash all government science by pre-screening all past and current investigations and classifying all those that can't simply be dismissed, politicizing NPR, NASA, NOAA, NTSB, on and on without exception in order to change the center and perception of reason.

6. Paralyze the public, the media and the Congress in perpetual fear. Just like all other criminal enterprises, the Bush-Mafia's profiteering depended on the fear-card by first terrorizing the intended victims, the American People. But the Bush-Mafia went one step further than all other self-inflicted terror campaigns ever tried by super-fascists of the past, they quite literally "perfected terror": Pulling off the False-Flag 9/11 Terror Attacks in broad daylight in front of billions of people around the world involving icons universally recognized, then having at the ready corrupt federal agencies on the scene (FEMA) with the mass-deception of the Official Conspiracy Theory and trumpeted world-wide by their media, gave the Bush-Mafia the green-light to inflict their goal of massive International Plunder-By-Force... Mission Accomplished.

7. Finally, many people probably didn't notice that the subprime crisis was engineered to artificially inflate one of the cornerstones of the American economy, real estate/housing, but it was always intended to fail. This isn't simple greed runamuck, but engineered shifts in trillions in assets intended to profit those in the know, those Borderless-Billionaires who knew before it started that hyper-inflated housing prices would A) artificially inflate the DOW and the illusion of a strong economy in a time of record debts and thereby artificially prop up the Bush-Mafia, but also, B) Timing is Everything, as in, we can burst this bubble at anytime and crash the economy and force Americans into desperation and more plunderous bailouts...

...This is where Josh Holland's article comes in, "nationalizing", not necessarily a bad idea at all.

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» RE: Bush-Mafia? Posted by: oregoncharles
Taking back the Constitutional authority to create money...back to Congress
Posted by: AnnTul on Feb 16, 2009 10:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here is an excellent article by Ellen Brown, author of "Web of Debt."

SUSTAINABLE GOVERNMENT: BANKING FOR A “NEW” NEW DEAL
http://www.webofdebt.com/articles/newdeal.php

Granting private banks the authority to create money out of thin air, whenever a loan is taken out, money that is backed by the "full faith of the United States Government," is granting huge authority that, by the Constitution, resides with Congress. This unconstitutional authority allows private banks to amass great wealth and wield huge power, shaping national and world events. What we are seeing now, with the private banks, is the end of a 300-year Ponzi scheme, according to Brown, that is Fractional Reserve Lending, which depends on an infinite cycle of increased borrowing to fund the interest on the loans.

Federalizing the Fed and nationalizing the banks, modeled after a system supported by Benjamin Franklin in Pennsylvania, i.e., only allowing national banks to create money, backed by the "full faith of the US Govt," would put the power of money creation back in the hands of the people and allow the profit of banking (i.e., reaonsable and predictable interest on loans) to fund the government in lieu of an income tax.

I highly recommend reading Ellen Brown's, "Web of Debt." It's a well-documented explanation of the ominous roll private banks have played in the history of our country and the world.

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Just Crooked?
Posted by: oregoncharles on Feb 16, 2009 11:03 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let me start with deeper history:

We've seen endless debate on the "real" reason for the invasions of Iraq and, for that matter, Afghanistan. But more and more, it came down to something simple and familiar: graft. Cheney's former firm, Halliburton, and the rest of the administration's buddies made out like bandits. So what if it cost a million lives? The more you look, the more this applies to almost all their policies.

Now we see the new administration desperately trying to rescue the same people who crashed the economy. Quite by chance, its economic team is run by people who are tightly intertwined with the banksters, helped start the deregulation policies that led to disaster, and themselves have records of failure.

How could this be?

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Joshua, we still need...
Posted by: oregoncharles on Feb 16, 2009 11:17 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
An explanation of the downside of just letting the giant banks crash. I have doubts.

Granted, in this case "nationalization" is just another word for "bankruptcy." It's a controlled crash: the FDIC does this all the time, they're good at it, and the only real barrier is political. (Moyers' program the other night was really good on this - you should get an article from Hiram(?) Johnson, his interviewee.)

Further benefits of government control: you get full control of the books, so you can see exactly what crimes were committed. This might be a reason Geithner doesn't want to do it: as head of the NY Fed, he was the lead regulator at the time. Is he personally implicated? Certainly many of the culprits are his buddies.

As I said above, one reason for the bad policies may be simple corruption.

Finally, it would be vital to sell off the remains in SMALL PIECES. Too big to fail is a recipe for disaster, in finance most of all. Break 'em up!

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» RE: Joshua, we still need... Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Thanks. Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Thanks. Posted by: Quannah
I say let the banks die already !
Posted by: maxpayne on Feb 16, 2009 11:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There'll be plenty of room to build new and better ones decentralized and from the ground up.

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What do you call
Posted by: willymack on Feb 16, 2009 4:28 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People who betray your trust, steal you blind, then go looking for taxpayer money when their madcap schemes fail? What's the word here; lesee..... CROOKS, that's it; that's the word.So,my question here is: why are there no indictments and/or arrests? Why is nobody going to jail? Why is the government allowing the crooks to rob us yet again? Are they so brain-dead as to think throwing good money after bad (as in Iraq & Afghanistan, for instance)that this will produce a good result and that bad people will suddenly turn into good ones, and change their wicked ways? These crooks are accorded respect and immunity to the LAW that they don't deserve, and those we've elected to stand between us and their evil are going along with their crime spree. This won't stop until there's nothing left for the crooks to steal from us.

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the banking industry trumps the president, the Congress & the American govt when it comes to this is
Posted by: cori on Feb 16, 2009 5:28 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Former chief economist of the International Monetary Fund (IMF), MIT Sloan School of Management professor and senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics, examines .Bill Moyers: Are you saying that the banking industry trumps the president, the Congress & the American govt when it comes to this issue so crucial to the survival of American democracy?



Simon Johnson: I hope they don't trump it. But the signs that I see this week, the words, the testimony, the way they're treated by Congressional committees, it makes me feel very worried. The correct people you should be asking are people at the IMF. What they're saying is the policy of being nice to the banks, is a mistake. The CEOs of these banks, they're the people who pay themselves the massive bonuses. They are a symptom of an arrogance, & a feeling of invincibility, that tells you a lot about the culture of those organizations. They are very much at the forefront of the Treasury. The Treasury is apparently calling the shots on their economic policies. This is a decisive moment. Either you break the power or we're stuck for a long time with this arrangement.



The structure or banking system, the concentration of power in big financial institutions has to change. There's a lot of appeal to FDR and what he did in the Great Depression.



Bill Moyers: here's the trillion dollar question, "Can this person," your new economic strategist, in this case Geithner, "really break with the vested elite that got you into this much trouble?" Have you seen any evidence this week that he's going to be tough with these guys?



Simon Johnson: I like the administration. I voted for the president. The answer to your question is, no, I haven't seen anything. But you know, perhaps next week I will. But right now, as we speak, I have a bad feeling in my stomach. There is too much at stake if changes need to be made make them.

Simon Johnson: I have this feeling in my stomach that I felt in other countries, much poorer countries, countries that were headed into really difficult economic situation. When there's a small group of people who got you into a disaster, and who were still powerful. Disaster even made them more powerful. And you know you need to come in and break that power. And you can't. You're stuck. The correct people you should be asking this question to are people at the IMF. And I can tell you what they're saying is the policy that we seem to be perusing, of being nice to the banks, is a mistake.

Bill Moyers: Do you think that Obama understands how these guys play the game? Let me play you the recording of a conference call "Huffington Post" this week. One top officials of Morgan Stanley is speaking to his colleagues. Janes Gorman: I'm going to turn to a topic that I suspect is near and dear to everybody's hearts, which is retention. There will be a retention award. Please do not call it a bonus, it is not a bonus it is an award. The award will be based on '08 full year production. Clearly it would have been cheaper to do it off '09 but we think it's the right thing to do and we've made that decision.

CC to www.whitehouse.gov

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» RE: Good Work. Posted by: oregoncharles
CORPORATE MAFIA HiJACKS GOVERNMENT
Posted by: Man_vs_Kleptocracy on Feb 16, 2009 6:01 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
(It isn’t the other way around)

The assumptions and ideas behind this Alternet story are stunningly naïve or worse. This is not about government taking over (“nationalizing”) and merely “bailing out” cushy private banks. It’s about the “too big to fail” corporate felons taking over what’s left of a democratic government.

When Corporate Mafia underling Phil Graham says:

"I would not take off [the table] the idea of nationalizing the banks”

It doesn’t get any clearer what is happening. They have a word for what happens when the state is run by corporate mafia. Care to guess what it is?

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Thoreau
Posted by: kafka, f on Feb 16, 2009 7:17 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
KPMG KPMG KPMG/Tax Shelter Tax Shelter Tax Shelter. Of course all the banks are insolvent and KPMG audits a disproportionate amount of them. You thought KPMG’s tax shelter shenanigans were disturbing, such activities were nothing compared to the 100s of Billions of fraud contained in the banks financial statements that KPMG audits. Just remember Flynn and his high priced lawyers tried to help put all the tax shelter partners in prison, what do you think Flynn is going to do to all the Audit Partners who have helped the banks engage in massive fraud by signing off on fraudulent bank financial statements? Though it is difficult to muddle through the fraudulent KPMG bank financial statements, it is not impossible and from that you can profit. Many of us made a small fortune shorting Citibank the KPMG audit client just by understanding the fraudulent nature of Citi’s financials. It is like taking candy from a baby, a favorite KPMG saying.

As one small example for all you dopes who somehow think the system is not and has not always been rigged by liars and thieves, Citi’s 10q as of 9/31/08 shows capital of about $126 billion yet its market cap as of today is $19 Billion (though it is likely insolvent). Forget about FAS 157 there are a million ways around it, the more difficult scam to discern is the use of SIVs to offload bad assets from Citi’s balance sheet so it does not have to recognize the losses. To Citi’s credit it does disclose in footnote 15 of its 10q potential exposure of about $130 Billion for part of their SPEs. Of course such amount is in excess of its stated book capital and almost 7 times larger than its current market cap and likely massively understated.

I know no one saw this coming; you can’t know the unknown; and all KPMG did was follow the accounting rules. Then how come a dope like me could figure it out? Further, that is what the tax partners thought before Tim Flynn, Joe Loonan and Swen Holmes tried to get them put in prison. In fact, many beginning as early as 2005 saw this problem coming like Dr. Roubini and used simple math to explain why. If KPMG is so expert at anything, why didn’t KPMG see this coming and warn all the decimated Citi investors. Personally, I am glad KPMG continued to produce the self evident fraudulent financials because me and my kind made a fortune off all the idiots who think any integrity exists within the fraudulent accounting statements or companies (such statements are reflective of).

In fact, Dr. Roubini is suggesting formally nationalizing all the banks (which most of are already 100% owned on a fair market value basis) because the system is insolvent. It may be time to short these fraudulent companies yet again if he is right, any thoughts?

15. SECURITIZATIONS AND VARIABLE INTEREST ENTITIES

The following tables summarize the Company's significant involvement in VIEs in millions of dollars:


As of September 30, 2008
(continued)
Maximum exposure to loss in
significant unconsolidated VIEs
356,326 $ 152,248


Total stockholders' equity 126,062 126,962 (1 )

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Re I have a dream! that: Geithner can be replaced by Simon Johnson
Posted by: watching-n-waiting on Feb 16, 2009 10:59 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This guy makes so much sense in this interview:

Former chief economist of the International Monetary Fund (IMF), MIT Sloan School of Management professor and senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics, Simon Johnson

VIDEO | Bill Moyers Interviews Simon Johnson
http://www.truthout.org/021609J
Bill Moyers interviews former chief economist of the International Monetary Fund (IMF), MIT Sloan School of Management professor and senior fellow at the Peterson Institute for International Economics.

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Nationalize the banks
Posted by: remoran on Feb 19, 2009 2:39 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This will do nothing until you nationalize the Fed and get rid of the banksters that run it. Do research to learn how the central banking system works and then make suggestions because the insolvent banks did not cause the crash, the Fed did with the aid of tech, greed, the BA and the elimination of the Glass/Stegall act courtesy of Bob Rubin and Phil Gramm. If Obama does not do this, we're screwed and BTW, ask Tiny Tim where the first two trillion of fungible funds went under Paulsen and then ask him where the next two are going to go because Bernankie won't tell even though Bloomberg is suing the Fed over the first two trillion dollar bailout made back in Nov of 2008.

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GOOGLEBBS
Posted by: screw_1 on Feb 27, 2009 12:16 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
_____________________
video converter for mac

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