Foreign Policy / By Conn Hallinan
comments_imageCOMMENTS: 165

Israel Treated Gaza Like Its Own Private Death Laboratory

Israel tested out a "focused lethality" weapon that minimizes explosive damage to structures while inflicting catastrophic wounds on its victims.
February 13, 2009  |  
 
 
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Erik Fosse, a Norwegian cardiologist, worked in Gaza hospitals during the recent war."It was as if they had stepped on a mine," he says of certain Palestinian patients he treated. "But there was no shrapnel in the wound. Some had lost their legs. It looked as though they had been sliced off. I have been to war zones for 30 years, but I have never seen such injuries before."

Dr. Fosse was describing the effects of a U.S. "focused lethality" weapon that minimizes explosive damage to structures while inflicting catastrophic wounds on its victims. But where did the Israelis get this weapon? And was their widespread use in the attack on Gaza a field test for a new generation of explosives?

DIMEd to Death

The specific weapon is called a Dense Inert Metal Explosive (DIME). In 2000, the U.S. Air Force teamed up with the University of California's Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory. The weapon wraps high explosives with a tungsten alloy and other metals like cobalt, nickel, or iron in a carbon fiber/epoxy container. When the bomb explodes the container evaporates, and the tungsten turns into micro-shrapnel that is extremely lethal within a 13-foot radius. Tungsten is inert, so it doesn't react chemically with the explosive. While a non-inert metal like aluminum would increase the blast, tungsten actually contains the explosion to a limited area.

Within the weapon's range, however, it's inordinately lethal. According to Norwegian doctor Mad Gilbert, the blast results in multiple amputations and "very severe fractures. The muscles are sort of split from the bones, hanging loose, and you also have quite severe burns." Most of those who survive the initial blast quickly succumb to septicemia and organ collapse. "Initially, everything seems in orderbut it turns out on operation that dozens of miniature particles can be found in all their organs," says Dr. Jam Brommundt, a German doctor working in Kham Younis, a city in southern Gaza. "It seems to be some sort of explosive or shell that disperses tiny particlesthat penetrate all organs, these miniature injuries, you are not able to attack them surgically." According to Brommundt, the particles cause multiple organ failures.

If by some miracle victims resist those conditions, they are almost certain to develop rhabdomyosarcoma (RMS), a particularly deadly cancer that deeply embeds itself into tissue and is almost impossible to treat. A 2005 U.S. Department of health study found that tungsten stimulated RMS cancers even in very low doses. All of the 92 rats tested developed the cancer.

While DIMEs were originally designed to avoid "collateral" damage generated by standard high-explosive bombs, the weapon's lethality and profound long-term toxicity hardly seem like an improvement.

It appears DIME weapons may have been used in the 2006 Israeli invasion of Lebanon, but not enough to alarm medical workers. But in Gaza, the ordinance was widely used. Al-Shifta alone has seen 100 to 150 victims of these attacks.

Gaza as Test

Dr. Gilbert told the Oslo Gardermoen, "there is a strong suspicionthat Gaza is now being used as a test laboratory for new weapons."


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Conn Hallinan is a Foreign Policy In Focus columnist.
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US - no comment
[Report this comment]
Posted by: b253@yahoo.com on Feb 13, 2009 12:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The US unwavering support of Israel will eventually undo us. When Helen Thomas asked as part of her question "Do you know of any country in the middle east that has nuclear weapons." Everyone knew the answer - Israel. Yet when Obama, just gave the standard us answer that we don't know of any country that does. It was proof that as a country we are not ready to deal with reality yet.

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» RE: US - no comment Posted by: Gisele
» RE: US - no comment Posted by: madmax427
» RE: US - no comment Posted by: liz_imp

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War Crimes are war crimes....
[Report this comment]
Posted by: cordas on Feb 13, 2009 1:51 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How can any nation hold its head up in the international community and NOT back a full investigation into these claims, and support any action taken at the Hague.

It seems to me that to try and stop these investigation / prosecutions* is in and of itself a crime against humanity.

*Of course anyone accused deserves a defence and the best defence that can be given.

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Deliver US from Israel:Earth's little shop of horrors
[Report this comment]
Posted by: weathered on Feb 13, 2009 3:21 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Behold the toxic trojan horse all dressed up like relationship and all at our immense expense.

Israel is a hand grenade of very bad karma and it went off in our living room.

See Netanyahu for exactly what he is, a terribly insecure, dark little man, who's ego shows up on doppler radar and who's core capacity for selfish deceit is diabolic.

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» If its sneaky, snotty, selfish, Posted by: weathered

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WAR CHILD
[Report this comment]
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Feb 13, 2009 5:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
WAR CHILD

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» RE: WAR CHILD Posted by: Erin

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Hamas Responsible For All - Not Israel
[Report this comment]
Posted by: iris89 on Feb 13, 2009 5:51 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hamas is Responsible for All As It Lit The Proverbial Fuse in Palestine, and Israel’s actions was only a response to Hamas’s uncalled for actions so if any war crimes were committed they should be charged to Hamas.

Wars should be eliminated and at present one religion is responsible for over 90% of the violence on earth as pointed out by an Australian newspaper as follows:

"Did you know that 90-95% of the conflicts in the world today are Muslims fighting non-muslims or each other? " [source - The Weekend Australian, November 26-27, 2005 AD]"

I am getting very tired of hearing Palestinians and other Ishmaelite crying crocodile tears and always trying to put the blame for what they do on others such as their conspiracy weavers tried to do about who did 9/11/2001 attack on the World Trade Center, etc. Screaming against what they call wrongful occupations when they are guilty of occupying Byzantine territory, Palestine which belongs to the Israelites [see Numbers the 34 th. Chapter in any Bible for proof of this, and their outright greed as they have over 98% of the Middle East, but still greedly want the less than 2% belonging to their sister tribe Israel] - its time we get real and put an end to this so the world can stop experiencing continuous Ishmaelite induced strife such as shooting rockets at Israel.

Solution, dissolve this false religion and rid the earth of at least 90% of the violence. But of course the politicians will not do what is needed since as Jeremiah 10:23 says, "O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." (Authorized King James Bible; AV). To read detailed information, go to the following article:

[go to] When Should A Religion Be Dissolved In The Interest Of World Peace?

Which can be found at,

http://religioustruths.proboards59.com/

An Educational Referral Forum under the sub-heading, ' ISLAM THE SOURCE OF MOST VIOLENCE

Along with many other useful articles.

Iris89

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Put the bong down Iris Posted by: recklessron
» You know even less Posted by: brianct

Comments are closed-

Hamas Responsible For All - Not Israel
[Report this comment]
Posted by: iris89 on Feb 13, 2009 6:08 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hamas is Responsible for All As It Lit The Proverbial Fuse in Palestine, and Israel’s actions was only a response to Hamas’s uncalled for actions so if any war crimes were committed they should be charged to Hamas.

Wars should be eliminated and at present one religion is responsible for over 90% of the violence on earth as pointed out by an Australian newspaper as follows:

"Did you know that 90-95% of the conflicts in the world today are Muslims fighting non-muslims or each other? " [source - The Weekend Australian, November 26-27, 2005 AD]"

I am getting very tired of hearing Palestinians and other Ishmaelite crying crocodile tears and always trying to put the blame for what they do on others such as their conspiracy weavers tried to do about who did 9/11/2001 attack on the World Trade Center, etc. Screaming against what they call wrongful occupations when they are guilty of occupying Byzantine territory, Palestine which belongs to the Israelites [see Numbers the 34 th. Chapter in any Bible for proof of this, and their outright greed as they have over 98% of the Middle East, but still greedly want the less than 2% belonging to their sister tribe Israel] - its time we get real and put an end to this so the world can stop experiencing continuous Ishmaelite induced strife such as shooting rockets at Israel.

Solution, dissolve this false religion and rid the earth of at least 90% of the violence. But of course the politicians will not do what is needed since as Jeremiah 10:23 says, "O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." (Authorized King James Bible; AV). To read detailed information, go to the following article:

[go to] When Should A Religion Be Dissolved In The Interest Of World Peace?

Which can be found at,

http://religioustruths.proboards59.com/

An Educational Referral Forum under the sub-heading, ' ISLAM THE SOURCE OF MOST VIOLENCE

Along with many other useful articles.

Iris89

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» Iris89 = SPAMMER Posted by: Quannah
» Iris89 = Religious Wacko Posted by: Quannah

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So what? Who cares?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: shiftjammer on Feb 13, 2009 6:13 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Come on do u think for a second that Hamas would not use any weapon it could get. If, and I said this a thousand times. If Hamas would try to build there own country an not fire rockets into Israel. Then nothing would have happened in the first place. Everything that has happened to the Palestinians is their own fault. How anyone can blame Israel for defending itself. Well anyone who does is an IDIOT! P.S. I'd love to get one of those Dime weapons myself. That would be sooooooooo cool.

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» RE: So what? Who cares? Posted by: robert.noll
» RE: So what? Who cares? Posted by: using
» RE: So what? Who cares? Posted by: mkdelta69
» you love Israel? Posted by: weathered
» RE: you love Israel? Posted by: rinthy
» RE: you love Israel? Posted by: using
» RE: you love Israel? Posted by: using
» RE: you love Israel? Posted by: Quannah
» RE: So what? Who cares? Posted by: Gisele
» RE: So what? Who cares? Posted by: mkdelta69
» RE: So what? Who cares? Posted by: using
» RE: So what? Who cares? Posted by: mkdelta69
» RE: So what? Who cares? Posted by: using
» RE: So what? Who cares? Posted by: iris89

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This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
» RE: absolutley disgusting Posted by: clvngodess
» RE: absolutley disgusting Posted by: using

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War criminals
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Erin on Feb 13, 2009 6:31 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The U.S. and its handmaiden, Israel, are both war criminals and should be put on trial and then convicted and punished. They are the two biggrest bullies in the world!!

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» RE: War criminals Posted by: using
» RE: War criminals Posted by: mkdelta69
» RE: War criminals Posted by: using

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Hysteria and Psychotherapy
[Report this comment]
Posted by: zepher on Feb 13, 2009 7:26 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Reading for a lifetime about Jews and Palestinians killing each other, the hysteria is shining very brightly these days (use of white phosphorus???). The fact that my country is providing Israel these weapons of horror like "focused lethality" and white phosphorus, causes me to think mandatory mass psychotherapy is needed for the sociopaths in Israel and in America. The most recent sado-horror weapon is sickly made by the US AirForce and Lawrence Livermore Labs in California. Guess they have all watched too much ..." how many ways can I kill or torture other humans" TV and Gaming. Isn't there some sane morality out there to bring these criminals to the dungeons they deserve?

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Weapons That Limit Collateral Damage Are Bad?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: gradioc on Feb 13, 2009 8:38 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
DIME weapons, as the article states, are specifically designed to limit damage to a small area and reduce civilian casualties. How does this get twisted into an evil plot? White phosphorus, when used as a smokescreen, is specifically NOT prohibited by the Geneva Conventions. There is legitimate controversy over Deleted Uranium Ammunition, but it is not illegal either. The whole point of the article seems to be making things that are not illegal SOUND illegal. I was thrilled to see some one acknowledge that Hamas' missles into Israel DID constitute a war crime. Where were the cries for justice over that? Not here, that's for sure. After all, those poor Hamas warriors only managed to kill a few Israelis with the inferior weapons this horrible blockade limited them to. That's hardly worth noting.

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» The art & science of deceit Posted by: weathered

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syed salamah ali mahdi
[Report this comment]
Posted by: salamah on Feb 13, 2009 9:29 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
90% of the violence in the World is because of Islam, Muslims and the Ishmaelites! Nice to know this! The amount of violence over the past 600 hundred years were also because of Islam, Muslims and the Ishmaelites, like the colonizing of most of the World. The two World Wars were also caused by Islam, Muslims and Ishmaelites. The Jews were thrown out of Judaea & Samariah in the 1st Century AD by Islam, Muslims and Ishmaelites. And it was not Islam, Muslims and Ishmaelites who gave refuge to the Jews, who fled Spain, in North Africa and Turkey. It was again Islam, Muslims and Ishmaelites who sent the Jews, the Gypsies and Poles to gas chambers in Germany. Finally, it's Islam, Muslims and Ishmaelites who landed in Palestine from Europe and occupied it at gun point, cleansed it racially, killed, burnt and spilled much blood and have not stopped ever since! Yes, I agree with two of the commentators preceding me on the absolute and urgent need for Islam to be banned, Muslims to be killed and Ishmaelites be declared as slaves of the Israelites because Ishmael was a son of Abraham by a slave woman gifted to Abraham by the Ruler of Egypt, Hagar!

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» RE: syed salamah ali mahdi Posted by: mkdelta69
» Jews can get very nasty with.... Posted by: David/Daoud
» RE: syed salamah ali mahdi Posted by: iris89

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Fascist Zionists
[Report this comment]
Posted by: mkdelta69 on Feb 13, 2009 10:59 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
US Brig. General William Looney, Washington Post is the only one of the few war criminals to be honest about war crimes. Zionist war criminals are cowards hiding behind lies.


‘If they turn on the radars we're going to blow up their goddamn SAMs (surface-to-air missiles). They know we own their country. We own their airspace... We dictate the way they live and talk. And that's what's great about America right now. It's a good thing, especially when there's a lot of oil out there we need.’
- US Brig. General William Looney, Washington Post

‘That is, the crazy Hitler speaking his heart out in front of the people who claim to be the custodians of democracy without anybody feeling ashamed of what the Looney Brigadiers are saying!) ‘The greatest crime since World War II has been U.S. foreign policy.’
- Ramsey Clark, Former U.S. Attorney General

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Is it all due to too much inbreeding?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: linookser on Feb 13, 2009 11:22 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Does anyone ever wonder if all this insanity is due to too much inbreeding?

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Israel’s enabler
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Posted by: 876 on Feb 13, 2009 12:29 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
American society is truly deranged, that they devote their resources to developing destructive weapons, even celebrate them of television shows (Future Weapons, Discovery Channel), that they have legions of Jesus loving lunatics who cheer the slaughter of Muslim people on, then blather about the trouble with Muslims, that they support and sponsor war criminals of the worst, most heinous and brutal kind then invade nations for harboring phantom terrorists that don’t exist and to top it off, that they are so psychotic they see nothing wrong in themselves yet foam at the mouth incessantly over the shortcomings of other people’s way of life. America and its population of Christian psychopaths, war mongering Zionists and imperialists are nothing more than a screaming ominous plague on the earth.

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» RE: Israel’s enabler Posted by: openhouse
» RE: Israel’s enabler Posted by: shiftjammer

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And why wouldn't they? After all, the US and Europe are enabling Israel big time !
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield on Feb 13, 2009 1:12 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Stop giving Israel WMDs and they won't have a laboratory to experiment with !

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Should read "US Treated Gaza Like Its Own Private Death Laboratory"
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Defenestrator on Feb 13, 2009 2:09 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Where do these weapons come from?

Dense Inert Metal Explosive (DIME) is a US-created technology that is GIVEN (not even sold) to Israel, with full knowledge of how it will be used.

This is on us.

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Every time any country invents an easily made weapon,
[Report this comment]
Posted by: PaulK on Feb 13, 2009 5:09 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That secret is out.

When the United States invented and tested the atomic bomb, the big secret was that a uranium bomb was possible and very explosive. Russia looked at the pictures of the bomb, read the general literature, and then built a bomb for themselves. We've been lucky not to have a global thermonuclear war so far.

Now, let us consider the fact that Israel has just tested a bomb that uses little tiny pieces of tungsten, and it kills humans like crazy. People with an IQ of, say, 90 will realize that Al Qaeda has been using ball bearings in their suicide bombs. Tungsten has been a refined metal for at least a century. So now some genius bombmaker will get some tungsten bits and try them in a bomb.

Is a tungsten bomb a banned weapon? Let's see, it poisons the survivors who then all get cancer. That sounds like a banned weapon.

We have Israeli politicians to thank, or to curse, for advancing the art of bomb making in the world. The advancement is permanent. Couldn't they have invented a beneficial advance, like better solar electricity, or even a benign advance, like the pet rock?

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A question for our time......
[Report this comment]
Posted by: using on Feb 13, 2009 8:39 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Lets begin to require real evidence of our writers......not the same old hearsay.

Today our technology makes us capable of superimposing pictures on happening that are unrelated to the event represented. We have propaganda circlulated by the press....on hearsay..and dramatizations.

And who is interested in truth......when there are juicy, exciting, emotion inciting opinions to spice up a story and turn it into a day's entertainment..so the news can have a competetive edge .even if a lie besmudges the whole truth or America, Israel..and indeed most of westernized civilizations.......which we really know is the goal..if only we have the ability to keep more than one conflicting thought in our head at a time.

Our world has grown smaller...news flies around the globe in minutes. How can you control a people and keep them subserviant, impoverished, moderately ignorant, able to beat your women at will, use their people as fodder, set their children up for the kill....unless you seal their eyes..and scream earfulls of buzz words and misrepresentations to drown out reality.

People who will swear from one side of their mouth that the holocust never happened...when the ovens still stand.....and that the Jews were inferior and therefore Hitler was justified in killing them...when Einstein, Frued, Adler, Fromm (just to mention a few) some of the greatest minds ever were practicing in Germany when Hitler was elected.
All people must begin to present evidence to prove their version of truth.

All my life I believed in pre-education. I believed if you tried long enough you could open minds to seeing more than one piece of truth..to begin questioning the collective thinking of one's time and place...and therefore to make upgrading human nature and creating a better world.......a world free of man's inhumanity to man....but... A person or group who willingly sacrifices open discussion, that does not value the search for truth, ethics, human life..who confuses truth with hearsay and shuts you up by crying, blaming, demanding. Such people are as active in pushing people arround as they claim Bush was, except they are sneaky and underhanded about it......Can such a person ever become ready to join in the quest to bring man's nature up to our present technology?

Just a question......worthy of an answer?

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All hail, the Empires of America & Israel
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Posted by: pete ess on Feb 13, 2009 10:34 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Princes of Peace, Bringers of Democracy, Freedom and Happiness.

Or else they'll blow you to pieces!!

Liars and murderers who know the liar's cardinal rule: Tell big lies and tell them repeatedly. See how easily they get otherwise potentially good people to parrot their lies about "better weapons", "it's Hamas' fault", "Israel has the right to "defend" itself", etc

The US & Israel are murderers and thieves.

We should never stop telling the World about their evil deeds, about Israel's ILLEGAL occupation of Palestinian land, about the humiliation they put Palestinians through DAILY IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY, and about their despicable WAR CRIMES.

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Ah, Civilization!!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: talkville on Feb 13, 2009 11:14 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With the grand mushrooming of technical means of our recent past the more than 2600-year-old Art of the Siege has reached such elegant, refined, precise and efficient heights!!

How Lawful, Ordered and so Well Managed this Civilization of ours! What a vast distance we have reached in the degree of distance between the Animal and the Human!!

At least in Style and Manners, that is.

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Why is Israel allowed to get away with it?
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Posted by: Baenz on Feb 14, 2009 3:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why is Israel refusing an international, impartial investigation?

Since the 7th day of the Gaza onslaught Doctors and UN officials have been urging a stop and an immediate investigation into possible war crimes and crimes against humanity. Interestingly, the latter being a crime which is in the books since the Holocaust only.

UN SG Ban-Ki Moon has been calling for an investigation and so did countless other organizations. What or shall I better ask “who?” is holding them up?

That the two teams of international lawyers (International Coalition against Israel’s War Crimes) who are since some 10 days waiting at the Rafah crossing are refused entrance is a further proof, that Israel full well knows what it has to hide. That Egypt, as the well domestized poodle that it has become over the last 30 odd years complies with Israel’s demand not to let them in, is understandable. After all Mubarak doesn’t want to upset his masters.

That Israel tries to pressure the European States into changing their laws is a further proof of how much Israel knows that it is guilty as charged; see also the bombing of the Finnish children hospital in Gaza.

More so mind-boggling: why is Israel allowed to refuse such investigation? Has a suspected criminal ever been given the right to refuse an investigation into the alleged crime(s)?

Israel should have the greatest interest in pursuing an international, impartial investigation to clear its name and the reputation of its army. Yet it does everything to torpedo such an inquiry. Why?

Are we going to face the same situation like in Jenin? Do we have to wait until another “Kurdi Baer” comes and tells at least his part of the story? Or Mohammed Dura where we needed a Paris court to tell us that it is impossible to say who killed the kid because Israel removed all the evidence?

Why is Israel – with the help of the official US – allowed to get away with this?

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get real and accept reality, the truth - #1
[Report this comment]
Posted by: iris89 on Feb 14, 2009 9:25 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am posting the following as I have no intention with regard to answering all the nonsense and insults posted with respect to my two previous post by many who have NOT bothered to go read the proof, the evidence on the articles whose link I gave.

I post to inform all of the facts. If they do not like the facts, the reality, then they should recognize they are living in a fairy tail and not reality instead of insulting the messenger.

It is absurd for those who do not know the facts to make nonsense none evidence post in their ignorance. All should go learn the facts at the following locations:

To learn more, go to,

"Who Are The Wrongful Occupiers In Palestine? A Short Look At History:"

And,

"Summary on Land Title To Assist Understanding"

At, http://religioustruths.proboards59.com/index.cgi

Under sub-title, 'WELCOME AND ANOUNCEMENT :: LAND TITLE SUMMARY'

Also, it is high-time that all learn what an independent researcher is:

Independent Researchers

INTRODUCTION:

Many do NOT understand independent researchers. The good independent researcher goes out and investigates a subject and then writes up his/her findings in the most honest way possible. On controversial items, the good independent researcher tries to use only neutral historical data that has long been accepted as such. The good independent researcher avoids propaganda of one side or the other as one would avoid the plague.

I, as an independent researcher try to avoid documents slanted either Shia, Sunni, Alevia, Kurd, or what have you when writing on Islamic subjects. Yes, I do use Hadiths of great age that have been very widely accepted, but not because they are used by either either Shia, Sunni, Alevia, Kurd, or what have you, but because they have been long regarded as historically accurate.

THE EMPHLAR HADITH CASE:

The Sahib Bukhari Hadith is one such one as clearly shown by an encyclopedia:
.

I have used this Hadith due to its earliness of writing and its acceptance by more in Islam than perhaps any other Hadith, and because as a whole its historical references check out best.

If members of Islam wish to argue about Hadiths, leave me out. I am an independent researcher and NOT AN ARBITRATOR of Islamic belief. Members of Islam should arbitrate this out an in no way involve objective independent researcher in their differences. I am only interested in accuracy of historical account and nothing else.

All this nonsense with respect your differences and your violent reactions to them reminds me of the stupid 30 year war of religion in Europe between type 2 so called Christians, actually counterfeit followers of Jesus (Yeshua) in Europe in the middle ages. I find it very dumb, and in complete violation of the Qur’an. You all should read the Qur’an at Sura 5:13, AL-MAEDA (The Table, The Table Spread), and put it in practice:

Sura 5:13 AL-MAEDA (THE TABLE, THE TABLE SPREAD)

YUSUFALI: But because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few - ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for Allah loveth those who are kind.

PICKTHAL: And because of their breaking their covenant, We have cursed them and made hard their hearts. They change words from their context and forget a part of that whereof they were admonished. Thou wilt not cease to discover treachery from all save a few of them. But bear with them and pardon them. Lo! Allah loveth the kindly.

SHAKIR: But on account of their breaking their covenant We cu

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GET REAL AND ACCEPT THE TRUTH, THE REALITY
[Report this comment]
Posted by: iris89 on Feb 14, 2009 9:23 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am posting the following as I have no intention with regard to answering all the nonsense and insults posted with respect to my two previous post by many who have NOT bothered to go read the proof, the evidence on the articles whose link I gave.

I post to inform all of the facts. If they do not like the facts, the reality, then they should recognize they are living in a fairy tail and not reality instead of insulting the messenger.

It is absurd for those who do not know the facts to make nonsense none evidence post in their ignorance. All should go learn the facts at the following locations:

To learn more, go to,

"Who Are The Wrongful Occupiers In Palestine? A Short Look At History:"

And,

"Summary on Land Title To Assist Understanding"

At, http://religioustruths.proboards59.com/index.cgi

Under sub-title, 'WELCOME AND ANOUNCEMENT :: LAND TITLE SUMMARY'

Also, it is high-time that all learn what an independent researcher is:

Independent Researchers

INTRODUCTION:

Many do NOT understand independent researchers. The good independent researcher goes out and investigates a subject and then writes up his/her findings in the most honest way possible. On controversial items, the good independent researcher tries to use only neutral historical data that has long been accepted as such. The good independent researcher avoids propaganda of one side or the other as one would avoid the plague.

I, as an independent researcher try to avoid documents slanted either Shia, Sunni, Alevia, Kurd, or what have you when writing on Islamic subjects. Yes, I do use Hadiths of great age that have been very widely accepted, but not because they are used by either either Shia, Sunni, Alevia, Kurd, or what have you, but because they have been long regarded as historically accurate.

THE EMPHLAR HADITH CASE:

The Sahib Bukhari Hadith is one such one as clearly shown by an encyclopedia:
.

I have used this Hadith due to its earliness of writing and its acceptance by more in Islam than perhaps any other Hadith, and because as a whole its historical references check out best.

If members of Islam wish to argue about Hadiths, leave me out. I am an independent researcher and NOT AN ARBITRATOR of Islamic belief. Members of Islam should arbitrate this out an in no way involve objective independent researcher in their differences. I am only interested in accuracy of historical account and nothing else.

All this nonsense with respect your differences and your violent reactions to them reminds me of the stupid 30 year war of religion in Europe between type 2 so called Christians, actually counterfeit followers of Jesus (Yeshua) in Europe in the middle ages. I find it very dumb, and in complete violation of the Qur’an. You all should read the Qur’an at Sura 5:13, AL-MAEDA (The Table, The Table Spread), and put it in practice:

Sura 5:13 AL-MAEDA (THE TABLE, THE TABLE SPREAD)

YUSUFALI: But because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few - ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for Allah loveth those who are kind.

PICKTHAL: And because of their breaking their covenant, We have cursed them and made hard their hearts. They change words from their context and forget a part of that whereof they were admonished. Thou wilt not cease to discover treachery from all save a few of them. But bear with them and pardon them. Lo! Allah loveth the kindly.

SHAKIR: But on account of their breaking their covenant We cu

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Many comments are unseemly and not called for and will not be answered
[Report this comment]
Posted by: iris89 on Feb 14, 2009 9:40 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Many comments are unseemly and not called for. I am an independent researcher who goes out and digs out the facts and then presents them in the most balanced and honest way possible. Also, it is clear that you did NOT read my fact filled article which I have challenged one and all to find a single factual error.

Now a question, why can you NOT deal in a mature way with factual information?

You should read my article,

"Who Are The Wrongful Occupiers In Palestine? A Short Look At History"

Which can be found at:

http://religioustruths.proboards59.com/

Under sub-topic, 'WELCOME AND ANOUNCEMENT :: LAND TITLE SUMMARY'

Also, read,

"Sponsors of Unprovoked Attacks and Criminal Acts Responsible For All That Occurs"

Which can be found at:

http://religioustruths.proboards59.com/

Under sub-topic, 'RELIGION - VARIOUS :: ISLAM THE SOURCE OF MOST VIOLENCE"

You can also PM me on this forum if you find any factual errors or if you wish to intelligently discuss in a mature way.

Iris89

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» RE: iris89... Posted by: Quannah
» Absolutes Posted by: brianct
» More Bull from 'Iris' Posted by: brianct
» we have a fantasist Posted by: brianct

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Videos: Panel Discussion on Gaza etc
[Report this comment]
Posted by: EssentialDissent on Feb 15, 2009 11:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://essentialdissent.blogspot.com/

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kill people and save structures = making way for population exchange
[Report this comment]
Posted by: brianct on Feb 15, 2009 6:45 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
'Israel tested out a "focused lethality" weapon that minimizes explosive damage to structures while inflicting catastrophic wounds on its victims. '

what this sinister development by the worlds favourite psychopathic nation is that they are getting ready to exchange a palestinian arab population with a zionist jewish one.

And the gutless compliant 'International Community' aka white govts, turns a blind eye.

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For using: I just have one question:
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Baenz on Feb 16, 2009 4:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
“I can just imagine progressives living under the rule of Hamas, Islamic rule, Iranian rule, the Taliban.”

Dear using

The above quote seems to be one of your favourite “arguments” as I have read it several times now.

As you say that you don’t appreciate hearsay would you mind to elaborate in which of the islamic ruled countries you have lived in (not just as a tourist)?

And how long did you live in Iran and Afghanistan? I would be interested to read some of your experience there. Thank you in advance.

B.

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To Iris, the independent researcher
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Baenz on Feb 16, 2009 4:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This must have escaped your research:

Kurds are NOT a religious group – as you seem to believe the way you lump them together with the rest of the Islamic sects.

Kurds are in general Sunni Muslim.

If all your “independent research” is done in that manner than maybe I should check out “my” God and see what SHE has to say …

B.

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» Get off the robot thing Posted by: Baenz
» Part Two on Exposure Posted by: iris89
» Part Three Posted by: iris89
» Part Three Posted by: iris89

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Most of Gaza dead were terrorists
[Report this comment]
Posted by: mrjingles on Feb 16, 2009 3:09 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Lets salute the IDF for their great victory.

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Please stop embarrassing Christians...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: snowdancer76 on Feb 25, 2009 8:12 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You are obviously narrow-minded and uneducated on this topic and an embarrassment to Christianity. I can't believe that you actually believe what you wrote! It is such a shame that you cannot see and/or understand the error of your twisted, brain-washed ideas about Israel and Palestine. In fact, you have everything completely backwards. How can you call the Palestinians greedy when all they want is a decent portion of their OWN land? It is beyond me how anyone in their right mind could think as you do. For the sake of Christ, please do the RESEARCH! and then come back and apologize to all the people you have offended and while you are at it, you better ask God to forgive you too since you obviously "know not what you do".

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A New WAPI - WIFI Standards War Looms
[Report this comment]
Posted by: screw_1 on Feb 26, 2009 11:10 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
screw_1
___________________________-
video converter for mac

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Some posters are either ignorant of history and land title
[Report this comment]
Posted by: iris89 on Feb 27, 2009 6:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some posters are either ignorant of history and land title or just do not want to accept reality, the truth per John 8:32, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (Authorized King James Bible; AV).
Now let's look at reality:

Let's learn the truth that the squatters - Hamas - and associates do NOT own the land in Gaza, but Israel does. Here are the facts, and if anyone questions them, just go to my forum at http://jude3.proboards92.com/ A Free-Speech Forum For All and leave me a PM and I will get back to you:

Whose Land Is It? A Study of The Land of Palestine

INTRODUCTION:

Land title research in many areas is a very difficult task. In Mexico, the titles to farm land are so clouded it can take years to adequately search them. In some places the granting of title to land by a legitimate granter can go back over 3,500 years. One such place is the land of Palestine where current occupancy has no relationship to whom holds title.

Even some of the most famous buildings in the land of Palestine are actually squatters on land to which others hold title. The most famous instance of this is the Temple Mount and its squatter mosque that sits on the site of the ancient temple of ancient Hebrew kingdom and belongs to the Hebrews. This mess with many occupying land as squatters for which others hold title makes for an untenable position when the rightful title holder takes back his/her land, especially so when it is centuries later.

The present situation in much of Palestine is like the battle between the squatters and the owners, titleholders of land in the old west in the United States; to wit, squatters wanting to continue to squat and land owners wanting their land back. However, some additional situations enter the picture since many of the land owners - their ancestors - were forced off the their land by the Romans and by later Caliphs. Now of course the rule of law should be applied and the squatters finally brought to their day of reckoning with reality, they have no title to the land they are on.

To read the remainder, go to,

[go to] http://jude3.proboards92.com/index.cgi?board=islam

And then to the article, "Whose Land Is It? A Study of The Land of Palestine"

Iris89

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Some posters are either ignorant of history and land title
[Report this comment]
Posted by: iris89 on Feb 27, 2009 6:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some posters are either ignorant of history and land title or just do not want to accept reality, the truth per John 8:32, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (Authorized King James Bible; AV).
Now let's look at reality:

Let's learn the truth that the squatters - Hamas - and associates do NOT own the land in Gaza, but Israel does. Here are the facts, and if anyone questions them, just go to my forum at http://jude3.proboards92.com/ A Free-Speech Forum For All and leave me a PM and I will get back to you:

Whose Land Is It? A Study of The Land of Palestine

INTRODUCTION:

Land title research in many areas is a very difficult task. In Mexico, the titles to farm land are so clouded it can take years to adequately search them. In some places the granting of title to land by a legitimate granter can go back over 3,500 years. One such place is the land of Palestine where current occupancy has no relationship to whom holds title.

Even some of the most famous buildings in the land of Palestine are actually squatters on land to which others hold title. The most famous instance of this is the Temple Mount and its squatter mosque that sits on the site of the ancient temple of ancient Hebrew kingdom and belongs to the Hebrews. This mess with many occupying land as squatters for which others hold title makes for an untenable position when the rightful title holder takes back his/her land, especially so when it is centuries later.

The present situation in much of Palestine is like the battle between the squatters and the owners, titleholders of land in the old west in the United States; to wit, squatters wanting to continue to squat and land owners wanting their land back. However, some additional situations enter the picture since many of the land owners - their ancestors - were forced off the their land by the Romans and by later Caliphs. Now of course the rule of law should be applied and the squatters finally brought to their day of reckoning with reality, they have no title to the land they are on.

To read the remainder, go to,

[go to] http://jude3.proboards92.com/index.cgi?board=islam

And then to the article, "Whose Land Is It? A Study of The Land of Palestine"

If any wish to discuss and/or learn more, PM me on above forum.

Iris89

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Uncalled For Statements That Are Gross Error Made by Some:
[Report this comment]
Posted by: iris89 on Feb 28, 2009 5:04 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Uncalled For Statements That Are Gross Error Made by Some:

What Is An Occupation, And Who Is An Occupier?

INTRODUCTION:

Many do NOT know what an occupation is or who is an occupier; nor can they distinguish between those occupying an area strictly as a police action, and those occupying for the purpose of permanently stealing the land of another.

First, let's look at the dictionary definition of occupation:

Occupation = 2a. The act or process of holding or possessing a place. b. The state of being held or possessed. 3a. Invasion, conquest, and control of a nation or territory by foreign armed forces. b. The military government exercising control over an occupied nation or territory. [source - The American Heritage(r) Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000]

Types of occupations:

Temporary occupation where an area is occupied for the purpose of establishing law and order with a view of leaving as quickly as possible when law and order is established.

Permanent occupation is when an area is occupied by foreign forces with a view of permanently holding the occupied area - wrongful occupation. Example, the Nazi German occupation of Poland where they intended to make Poland German territory and only given up when forced to do so. The wrongful occupation of Palestine by calips and sultans in the 7 th. Century with the intent of making this area which others held title their own and the wrongful moving in of their followers with no intent of ever giving it back to its rightful owners.

Of course some do not understand the right of the rightful owners to retake their land as shown by this comment on a forum on the Internet which even criticizes those calling for an end to wrongful occupation and wrongly implying the re-conquest of occupied land from the wrongful occupiers is wrong,

"You are obviously narrow-minded and uneducated on this topic and an embarrassment to Christianity. I can't believe that you actually believe what you wrote! It is such a shame that you cannot see and/or understand the error of your twisted, brain-washed ideas about Israel and Palestine. In fact, you have everything completely backwards. How can you call the Palestinians greedy when all they want is a decent portion of their OWN land? It is beyond me how anyone in their right mind could think as you do. For the sake of Christ, please do the RESEARCH! and then come back and apologize to all the people you have offended and while you are at it, you better ask God to forgive you too since you obviously "know not what you do".

To be noted, this individual, believe it or not, can NOT even understand that the rightful owners are in the RIGHT; whereas, the wrongful occupiers are not. This individual even has the nerve to call wrongfully occupied lands by the wrongful occupiers - their own land. But note, it no where shows that they EVER had legitimate title, and fails to mention they only had possession of the land by wrongful conquest - illegal occupation with intent to permanently steal it from the lands rightful occupation.

To read the remainder, go to:

"What Is An Occupation, And Who Is An Occupier?"

on sub-topic, 'WELCOME AND ANOUNCEMENT :: LAND TITLE SUMMARY'

At http://religioustruths.proboards59.com/

Anyone wanting more information and/or to discuss can PM me on the above forum.

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

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Alternet Comments:

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US - no comment
[Report this comment]
Posted by: b253@yahoo.com on Feb 13, 2009 12:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The US unwavering support of Israel will eventually undo us. When Helen Thomas asked as part of her question "Do you know of any country in the middle east that has nuclear weapons." Everyone knew the answer - Israel. Yet when Obama, just gave the standard us answer that we don't know of any country that does. It was proof that as a country we are not ready to deal with reality yet.

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» RE: US - no comment Posted by: Gisele
» RE: US - no comment Posted by: madmax427
» RE: US - no comment Posted by: liz_imp

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War Crimes are war crimes....
[Report this comment]
Posted by: cordas on Feb 13, 2009 1:51 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How can any nation hold its head up in the international community and NOT back a full investigation into these claims, and support any action taken at the Hague.

It seems to me that to try and stop these investigation / prosecutions* is in and of itself a crime against humanity.

*Of course anyone accused deserves a defence and the best defence that can be given.

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Deliver US from Israel:Earth's little shop of horrors
[Report this comment]
Posted by: weathered on Feb 13, 2009 3:21 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Behold the toxic trojan horse all dressed up like relationship and all at our immense expense.

Israel is a hand grenade of very bad karma and it went off in our living room.

See Netanyahu for exactly what he is, a terribly insecure, dark little man, who's ego shows up on doppler radar and who's core capacity for selfish deceit is diabolic.

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» If its sneaky, snotty, selfish, Posted by: weathered

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WAR CHILD
[Report this comment]
Posted by: tony_opmoc on Feb 13, 2009 5:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
WAR CHILD

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» RE: WAR CHILD Posted by: Erin

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Hamas Responsible For All - Not Israel
[Report this comment]
Posted by: iris89 on Feb 13, 2009 5:51 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hamas is Responsible for All As It Lit The Proverbial Fuse in Palestine, and Israel’s actions was only a response to Hamas’s uncalled for actions so if any war crimes were committed they should be charged to Hamas.

Wars should be eliminated and at present one religion is responsible for over 90% of the violence on earth as pointed out by an Australian newspaper as follows:

"Did you know that 90-95% of the conflicts in the world today are Muslims fighting non-muslims or each other? " [source - The Weekend Australian, November 26-27, 2005 AD]"

I am getting very tired of hearing Palestinians and other Ishmaelite crying crocodile tears and always trying to put the blame for what they do on others such as their conspiracy weavers tried to do about who did 9/11/2001 attack on the World Trade Center, etc. Screaming against what they call wrongful occupations when they are guilty of occupying Byzantine territory, Palestine which belongs to the Israelites [see Numbers the 34 th. Chapter in any Bible for proof of this, and their outright greed as they have over 98% of the Middle East, but still greedly want the less than 2% belonging to their sister tribe Israel] - its time we get real and put an end to this so the world can stop experiencing continuous Ishmaelite induced strife such as shooting rockets at Israel.

Solution, dissolve this false religion and rid the earth of at least 90% of the violence. But of course the politicians will not do what is needed since as Jeremiah 10:23 says, "O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." (Authorized King James Bible; AV). To read detailed information, go to the following article:

[go to] When Should A Religion Be Dissolved In The Interest Of World Peace?

Which can be found at,

http://religioustruths.proboards59.com/

An Educational Referral Forum under the sub-heading, ' ISLAM THE SOURCE OF MOST VIOLENCE

Along with many other useful articles.

Iris89

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» RE: Put the bong down Iris Posted by: recklessron
» You know even less Posted by: brianct

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Hamas Responsible For All - Not Israel
[Report this comment]
Posted by: iris89 on Feb 13, 2009 6:08 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hamas is Responsible for All As It Lit The Proverbial Fuse in Palestine, and Israel’s actions was only a response to Hamas’s uncalled for actions so if any war crimes were committed they should be charged to Hamas.

Wars should be eliminated and at present one religion is responsible for over 90% of the violence on earth as pointed out by an Australian newspaper as follows:

"Did you know that 90-95% of the conflicts in the world today are Muslims fighting non-muslims or each other? " [source - The Weekend Australian, November 26-27, 2005 AD]"

I am getting very tired of hearing Palestinians and other Ishmaelite crying crocodile tears and always trying to put the blame for what they do on others such as their conspiracy weavers tried to do about who did 9/11/2001 attack on the World Trade Center, etc. Screaming against what they call wrongful occupations when they are guilty of occupying Byzantine territory, Palestine which belongs to the Israelites [see Numbers the 34 th. Chapter in any Bible for proof of this, and their outright greed as they have over 98% of the Middle East, but still greedly want the less than 2% belonging to their sister tribe Israel] - its time we get real and put an end to this so the world can stop experiencing continuous Ishmaelite induced strife such as shooting rockets at Israel.

Solution, dissolve this false religion and rid the earth of at least 90% of the violence. But of course the politicians will not do what is needed since as Jeremiah 10:23 says, "O LORD, I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." (Authorized King James Bible; AV). To read detailed information, go to the following article:

[go to] When Should A Religion Be Dissolved In The Interest Of World Peace?

Which can be found at,

http://religioustruths.proboards59.com/

An Educational Referral Forum under the sub-heading, ' ISLAM THE SOURCE OF MOST VIOLENCE

Along with many other useful articles.

Iris89

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» Iris89 = SPAMMER Posted by: Quannah
» Iris89 = Religious Wacko Posted by: Quannah

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So what? Who cares?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: shiftjammer on Feb 13, 2009 6:13 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Come on do u think for a second that Hamas would not use any weapon it could get. If, and I said this a thousand times. If Hamas would try to build there own country an not fire rockets into Israel. Then nothing would have happened in the first place. Everything that has happened to the Palestinians is their own fault. How anyone can blame Israel for defending itself. Well anyone who does is an IDIOT! P.S. I'd love to get one of those Dime weapons myself. That would be sooooooooo cool.

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» RE: So what? Who cares? Posted by: robert.noll
» RE: So what? Who cares? Posted by: using
» RE: So what? Who cares? Posted by: mkdelta69
» you love Israel? Posted by: weathered
» RE: you love Israel? Posted by: rinthy
» RE: you love Israel? Posted by: using
» RE: you love Israel? Posted by: using
» RE: you love Israel? Posted by: Quannah
» RE: So what? Who cares? Posted by: Gisele
» RE: So what? Who cares? Posted by: mkdelta69
» RE: So what? Who cares? Posted by: using
» RE: So what? Who cares? Posted by: mkdelta69
» RE: So what? Who cares? Posted by: using
» RE: So what? Who cares? Posted by: iris89

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This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
» RE: absolutley disgusting Posted by: clvngodess
» RE: absolutley disgusting Posted by: using

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War criminals
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Erin on Feb 13, 2009 6:31 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The U.S. and its handmaiden, Israel, are both war criminals and should be put on trial and then convicted and punished. They are the two biggrest bullies in the world!!

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» RE: War criminals Posted by: using
» RE: War criminals Posted by: mkdelta69
» RE: War criminals Posted by: using

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Hysteria and Psychotherapy
[Report this comment]
Posted by: zepher on Feb 13, 2009 7:26 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Reading for a lifetime about Jews and Palestinians killing each other, the hysteria is shining very brightly these days (use of white phosphorus???). The fact that my country is providing Israel these weapons of horror like "focused lethality" and white phosphorus, causes me to think mandatory mass psychotherapy is needed for the sociopaths in Israel and in America. The most recent sado-horror weapon is sickly made by the US AirForce and Lawrence Livermore Labs in California. Guess they have all watched too much ..." how many ways can I kill or torture other humans" TV and Gaming. Isn't there some sane morality out there to bring these criminals to the dungeons they deserve?

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Weapons That Limit Collateral Damage Are Bad?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: gradioc on Feb 13, 2009 8:38 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
DIME weapons, as the article states, are specifically designed to limit damage to a small area and reduce civilian casualties. How does this get twisted into an evil plot? White phosphorus, when used as a smokescreen, is specifically NOT prohibited by the Geneva Conventions. There is legitimate controversy over Deleted Uranium Ammunition, but it is not illegal either. The whole point of the article seems to be making things that are not illegal SOUND illegal. I was thrilled to see some one acknowledge that Hamas' missles into Israel DID constitute a war crime. Where were the cries for justice over that? Not here, that's for sure. After all, those poor Hamas warriors only managed to kill a few Israelis with the inferior weapons this horrible blockade limited them to. That's hardly worth noting.

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» The art & science of deceit Posted by: weathered

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syed salamah ali mahdi
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Posted by: salamah on Feb 13, 2009 9:29 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
90% of the violence in the World is because of Islam, Muslims and the Ishmaelites! Nice to know this! The amount of violence over the past 600 hundred years were also because of Islam, Muslims and the Ishmaelites, like the colonizing of most of the World. The two World Wars were also caused by Islam, Muslims and Ishmaelites. The Jews were thrown out of Judaea & Samariah in the 1st Century AD by Islam, Muslims and Ishmaelites. And it was not Islam, Muslims and Ishmaelites who gave refuge to the Jews, who fled Spain, in North Africa and Turkey. It was again Islam, Muslims and Ishmaelites who sent the Jews, the Gypsies and Poles to gas chambers in Germany. Finally, it's Islam, Muslims and Ishmaelites who landed in Palestine from Europe and occupied it at gun point, cleansed it racially, killed, burnt and spilled much blood and have not stopped ever since! Yes, I agree with two of the commentators preceding me on the absolute and urgent need for Islam to be banned, Muslims to be killed and Ishmaelites be declared as slaves of the Israelites because Ishmael was a son of Abraham by a slave woman gifted to Abraham by the Ruler of Egypt, Hagar!

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» RE: syed salamah ali mahdi Posted by: mkdelta69
» Jews can get very nasty with.... Posted by: David/Daoud
» RE: syed salamah ali mahdi Posted by: iris89

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Fascist Zionists
[Report this comment]
Posted by: mkdelta69 on Feb 13, 2009 10:59 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
US Brig. General William Looney, Washington Post is the only one of the few war criminals to be honest about war crimes. Zionist war criminals are cowards hiding behind lies.


‘If they turn on the radars we're going to blow up their goddamn SAMs (surface-to-air missiles). They know we own their country. We own their airspace... We dictate the way they live and talk. And that's what's great about America right now. It's a good thing, especially when there's a lot of oil out there we need.’
- US Brig. General William Looney, Washington Post

‘That is, the crazy Hitler speaking his heart out in front of the people who claim to be the custodians of democracy without anybody feeling ashamed of what the Looney Brigadiers are saying!) ‘The greatest crime since World War II has been U.S. foreign policy.’
- Ramsey Clark, Former U.S. Attorney General

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Is it all due to too much inbreeding?
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Posted by: linookser on Feb 13, 2009 11:22 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Does anyone ever wonder if all this insanity is due to too much inbreeding?

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Israel’s enabler
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Posted by: 876 on Feb 13, 2009 12:29 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
American society is truly deranged, that they devote their resources to developing destructive weapons, even celebrate them of television shows (Future Weapons, Discovery Channel), that they have legions of Jesus loving lunatics who cheer the slaughter of Muslim people on, then blather about the trouble with Muslims, that they support and sponsor war criminals of the worst, most heinous and brutal kind then invade nations for harboring phantom terrorists that don’t exist and to top it off, that they are so psychotic they see nothing wrong in themselves yet foam at the mouth incessantly over the shortcomings of other people’s way of life. America and its population of Christian psychopaths, war mongering Zionists and imperialists are nothing more than a screaming ominous plague on the earth.

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» RE: Israel’s enabler Posted by: openhouse
» RE: Israel’s enabler Posted by: shiftjammer

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And why wouldn't they? After all, the US and Europe are enabling Israel big time !
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield on Feb 13, 2009 1:12 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Stop giving Israel WMDs and they won't have a laboratory to experiment with !

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Should read "US Treated Gaza Like Its Own Private Death Laboratory"
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Posted by: Defenestrator on Feb 13, 2009 2:09 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Where do these weapons come from?

Dense Inert Metal Explosive (DIME) is a US-created technology that is GIVEN (not even sold) to Israel, with full knowledge of how it will be used.

This is on us.

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Every time any country invents an easily made weapon,
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Posted by: PaulK on Feb 13, 2009 5:09 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That secret is out.

When the United States invented and tested the atomic bomb, the big secret was that a uranium bomb was possible and very explosive. Russia looked at the pictures of the bomb, read the general literature, and then built a bomb for themselves. We've been lucky not to have a global thermonuclear war so far.

Now, let us consider the fact that Israel has just tested a bomb that uses little tiny pieces of tungsten, and it kills humans like crazy. People with an IQ of, say, 90 will realize that Al Qaeda has been using ball bearings in their suicide bombs. Tungsten has been a refined metal for at least a century. So now some genius bombmaker will get some tungsten bits and try them in a bomb.

Is a tungsten bomb a banned weapon? Let's see, it poisons the survivors who then all get cancer. That sounds like a banned weapon.

We have Israeli politicians to thank, or to curse, for advancing the art of bomb making in the world. The advancement is permanent. Couldn't they have invented a beneficial advance, like better solar electricity, or even a benign advance, like the pet rock?

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A question for our time......
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Posted by: using on Feb 13, 2009 8:39 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Lets begin to require real evidence of our writers......not the same old hearsay.

Today our technology makes us capable of superimposing pictures on happening that are unrelated to the event represented. We have propaganda circlulated by the press....on hearsay..and dramatizations.

And who is interested in truth......when there are juicy, exciting, emotion inciting opinions to spice up a story and turn it into a day's entertainment..so the news can have a competetive edge .even if a lie besmudges the whole truth or America, Israel..and indeed most of westernized civilizations.......which we really know is the goal..if only we have the ability to keep more than one conflicting thought in our head at a time.

Our world has grown smaller...news flies around the globe in minutes. How can you control a people and keep them subserviant, impoverished, moderately ignorant, able to beat your women at will, use their people as fodder, set their children up for the kill....unless you seal their eyes..and scream earfulls of buzz words and misrepresentations to drown out reality.

People who will swear from one side of their mouth that the holocust never happened...when the ovens still stand.....and that the Jews were inferior and therefore Hitler was justified in killing them...when Einstein, Frued, Adler, Fromm (just to mention a few) some of the greatest minds ever were practicing in Germany when Hitler was elected.
All people must begin to present evidence to prove their version of truth.

All my life I believed in pre-education. I believed if you tried long enough you could open minds to seeing more than one piece of truth..to begin questioning the collective thinking of one's time and place...and therefore to make upgrading human nature and creating a better world.......a world free of man's inhumanity to man....but... A person or group who willingly sacrifices open discussion, that does not value the search for truth, ethics, human life..who confuses truth with hearsay and shuts you up by crying, blaming, demanding. Such people are as active in pushing people arround as they claim Bush was, except they are sneaky and underhanded about it......Can such a person ever become ready to join in the quest to bring man's nature up to our present technology?

Just a question......worthy of an answer?

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All hail, the Empires of America & Israel
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Posted by: pete ess on Feb 13, 2009 10:34 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Princes of Peace, Bringers of Democracy, Freedom and Happiness.

Or else they'll blow you to pieces!!

Liars and murderers who know the liar's cardinal rule: Tell big lies and tell them repeatedly. See how easily they get otherwise potentially good people to parrot their lies about "better weapons", "it's Hamas' fault", "Israel has the right to "defend" itself", etc

The US & Israel are murderers and thieves.

We should never stop telling the World about their evil deeds, about Israel's ILLEGAL occupation of Palestinian land, about the humiliation they put Palestinians through DAILY IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY, and about their despicable WAR CRIMES.

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Ah, Civilization!!
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Posted by: talkville on Feb 13, 2009 11:14 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With the grand mushrooming of technical means of our recent past the more than 2600-year-old Art of the Siege has reached such elegant, refined, precise and efficient heights!!

How Lawful, Ordered and so Well Managed this Civilization of ours! What a vast distance we have reached in the degree of distance between the Animal and the Human!!

At least in Style and Manners, that is.

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Why is Israel allowed to get away with it?
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Posted by: Baenz on Feb 14, 2009 3:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why is Israel refusing an international, impartial investigation?

Since the 7th day of the Gaza onslaught Doctors and UN officials have been urging a stop and an immediate investigation into possible war crimes and crimes against humanity. Interestingly, the latter being a crime which is in the books since the Holocaust only.

UN SG Ban-Ki Moon has been calling for an investigation and so did countless other organizations. What or shall I better ask “who?” is holding them up?

That the two teams of international lawyers (International Coalition against Israel’s War Crimes) who are since some 10 days waiting at the Rafah crossing are refused entrance is a further proof, that Israel full well knows what it has to hide. That Egypt, as the well domestized poodle that it has become over the last 30 odd years complies with Israel’s demand not to let them in, is understandable. After all Mubarak doesn’t want to upset his masters.

That Israel tries to pressure the European States into changing their laws is a further proof of how much Israel knows that it is guilty as charged; see also the bombing of the Finnish children hospital in Gaza.

More so mind-boggling: why is Israel allowed to refuse such investigation? Has a suspected criminal ever been given the right to refuse an investigation into the alleged crime(s)?

Israel should have the greatest interest in pursuing an international, impartial investigation to clear its name and the reputation of its army. Yet it does everything to torpedo such an inquiry. Why?

Are we going to face the same situation like in Jenin? Do we have to wait until another “Kurdi Baer” comes and tells at least his part of the story? Or Mohammed Dura where we needed a Paris court to tell us that it is impossible to say who killed the kid because Israel removed all the evidence?

Why is Israel – with the help of the official US – allowed to get away with this?

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get real and accept reality, the truth - #1
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Posted by: iris89 on Feb 14, 2009 9:25 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am posting the following as I have no intention with regard to answering all the nonsense and insults posted with respect to my two previous post by many who have NOT bothered to go read the proof, the evidence on the articles whose link I gave.

I post to inform all of the facts. If they do not like the facts, the reality, then they should recognize they are living in a fairy tail and not reality instead of insulting the messenger.

It is absurd for those who do not know the facts to make nonsense none evidence post in their ignorance. All should go learn the facts at the following locations:

To learn more, go to,

"Who Are The Wrongful Occupiers In Palestine? A Short Look At History:"

And,

"Summary on Land Title To Assist Understanding"

At, http://religioustruths.proboards59.com/index.cgi

Under sub-title, 'WELCOME AND ANOUNCEMENT :: LAND TITLE SUMMARY'

Also, it is high-time that all learn what an independent researcher is:

Independent Researchers

INTRODUCTION:

Many do NOT understand independent researchers. The good independent researcher goes out and investigates a subject and then writes up his/her findings in the most honest way possible. On controversial items, the good independent researcher tries to use only neutral historical data that has long been accepted as such. The good independent researcher avoids propaganda of one side or the other as one would avoid the plague.

I, as an independent researcher try to avoid documents slanted either Shia, Sunni, Alevia, Kurd, or what have you when writing on Islamic subjects. Yes, I do use Hadiths of great age that have been very widely accepted, but not because they are used by either either Shia, Sunni, Alevia, Kurd, or what have you, but because they have been long regarded as historically accurate.

THE EMPHLAR HADITH CASE:

The Sahib Bukhari Hadith is one such one as clearly shown by an encyclopedia:
.

I have used this Hadith due to its earliness of writing and its acceptance by more in Islam than perhaps any other Hadith, and because as a whole its historical references check out best.

If members of Islam wish to argue about Hadiths, leave me out. I am an independent researcher and NOT AN ARBITRATOR of Islamic belief. Members of Islam should arbitrate this out an in no way involve objective independent researcher in their differences. I am only interested in accuracy of historical account and nothing else.

All this nonsense with respect your differences and your violent reactions to them reminds me of the stupid 30 year war of religion in Europe between type 2 so called Christians, actually counterfeit followers of Jesus (Yeshua) in Europe in the middle ages. I find it very dumb, and in complete violation of the Qur’an. You all should read the Qur’an at Sura 5:13, AL-MAEDA (The Table, The Table Spread), and put it in practice:

Sura 5:13 AL-MAEDA (THE TABLE, THE TABLE SPREAD)

YUSUFALI: But because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few - ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for Allah loveth those who are kind.

PICKTHAL: And because of their breaking their covenant, We have cursed them and made hard their hearts. They change words from their context and forget a part of that whereof they were admonished. Thou wilt not cease to discover treachery from all save a few of them. But bear with them and pardon them. Lo! Allah loveth the kindly.

SHAKIR: But on account of their breaking their covenant We cu

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GET REAL AND ACCEPT THE TRUTH, THE REALITY
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Posted by: iris89 on Feb 14, 2009 9:23 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am posting the following as I have no intention with regard to answering all the nonsense and insults posted with respect to my two previous post by many who have NOT bothered to go read the proof, the evidence on the articles whose link I gave.

I post to inform all of the facts. If they do not like the facts, the reality, then they should recognize they are living in a fairy tail and not reality instead of insulting the messenger.

It is absurd for those who do not know the facts to make nonsense none evidence post in their ignorance. All should go learn the facts at the following locations:

To learn more, go to,

"Who Are The Wrongful Occupiers In Palestine? A Short Look At History:"

And,

"Summary on Land Title To Assist Understanding"

At, http://religioustruths.proboards59.com/index.cgi

Under sub-title, 'WELCOME AND ANOUNCEMENT :: LAND TITLE SUMMARY'

Also, it is high-time that all learn what an independent researcher is:

Independent Researchers

INTRODUCTION:

Many do NOT understand independent researchers. The good independent researcher goes out and investigates a subject and then writes up his/her findings in the most honest way possible. On controversial items, the good independent researcher tries to use only neutral historical data that has long been accepted as such. The good independent researcher avoids propaganda of one side or the other as one would avoid the plague.

I, as an independent researcher try to avoid documents slanted either Shia, Sunni, Alevia, Kurd, or what have you when writing on Islamic subjects. Yes, I do use Hadiths of great age that have been very widely accepted, but not because they are used by either either Shia, Sunni, Alevia, Kurd, or what have you, but because they have been long regarded as historically accurate.

THE EMPHLAR HADITH CASE:

The Sahib Bukhari Hadith is one such one as clearly shown by an encyclopedia:
.

I have used this Hadith due to its earliness of writing and its acceptance by more in Islam than perhaps any other Hadith, and because as a whole its historical references check out best.

If members of Islam wish to argue about Hadiths, leave me out. I am an independent researcher and NOT AN ARBITRATOR of Islamic belief. Members of Islam should arbitrate this out an in no way involve objective independent researcher in their differences. I am only interested in accuracy of historical account and nothing else.

All this nonsense with respect your differences and your violent reactions to them reminds me of the stupid 30 year war of religion in Europe between type 2 so called Christians, actually counterfeit followers of Jesus (Yeshua) in Europe in the middle ages. I find it very dumb, and in complete violation of the Qur’an. You all should read the Qur’an at Sura 5:13, AL-MAEDA (The Table, The Table Spread), and put it in practice:

Sura 5:13 AL-MAEDA (THE TABLE, THE TABLE SPREAD)

YUSUFALI: But because of their breach of their covenant, We cursed them, and made their hearts grow hard; they change the words from their (right) places and forget a good part of the message that was sent them, nor wilt thou cease to find them- barring a few - ever bent on (new) deceits: but forgive them, and overlook (their misdeeds): for Allah loveth those who are kind.

PICKTHAL: And because of their breaking their covenant, We have cursed them and made hard their hearts. They change words from their context and forget a part of that whereof they were admonished. Thou wilt not cease to discover treachery from all save a few of them. But bear with them and pardon them. Lo! Allah loveth the kindly.

SHAKIR: But on account of their breaking their covenant We cu

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Many comments are unseemly and not called for and will not be answered
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Posted by: iris89 on Feb 14, 2009 9:40 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Many comments are unseemly and not called for. I am an independent researcher who goes out and digs out the facts and then presents them in the most balanced and honest way possible. Also, it is clear that you did NOT read my fact filled article which I have challenged one and all to find a single factual error.

Now a question, why can you NOT deal in a mature way with factual information?

You should read my article,

"Who Are The Wrongful Occupiers In Palestine? A Short Look At History"

Which can be found at:

http://religioustruths.proboards59.com/

Under sub-topic, 'WELCOME AND ANOUNCEMENT :: LAND TITLE SUMMARY'

Also, read,

"Sponsors of Unprovoked Attacks and Criminal Acts Responsible For All That Occurs"

Which can be found at:

http://religioustruths.proboards59.com/

Under sub-topic, 'RELIGION - VARIOUS :: ISLAM THE SOURCE OF MOST VIOLENCE"

You can also PM me on this forum if you find any factual errors or if you wish to intelligently discuss in a mature way.

Iris89

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» RE: iris89... Posted by: Quannah
» Absolutes Posted by: brianct
» More Bull from 'Iris' Posted by: brianct
» we have a fantasist Posted by: brianct

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Videos: Panel Discussion on Gaza etc
[Report this comment]
Posted by: EssentialDissent on Feb 15, 2009 11:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://essentialdissent.blogspot.com/

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kill people and save structures = making way for population exchange
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Posted by: brianct on Feb 15, 2009 6:45 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
'Israel tested out a "focused lethality" weapon that minimizes explosive damage to structures while inflicting catastrophic wounds on its victims. '

what this sinister development by the worlds favourite psychopathic nation is that they are getting ready to exchange a palestinian arab population with a zionist jewish one.

And the gutless compliant 'International Community' aka white govts, turns a blind eye.

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For using: I just have one question:
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Baenz on Feb 16, 2009 4:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
“I can just imagine progressives living under the rule of Hamas, Islamic rule, Iranian rule, the Taliban.”

Dear using

The above quote seems to be one of your favourite “arguments” as I have read it several times now.

As you say that you don’t appreciate hearsay would you mind to elaborate in which of the islamic ruled countries you have lived in (not just as a tourist)?

And how long did you live in Iran and Afghanistan? I would be interested to read some of your experience there. Thank you in advance.

B.

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To Iris, the independent researcher
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Baenz on Feb 16, 2009 4:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This must have escaped your research:

Kurds are NOT a religious group – as you seem to believe the way you lump them together with the rest of the Islamic sects.

Kurds are in general Sunni Muslim.

If all your “independent research” is done in that manner than maybe I should check out “my” God and see what SHE has to say …

B.

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» Get off the robot thing Posted by: Baenz
» Part Two on Exposure Posted by: iris89
» Part Three Posted by: iris89
» Part Three Posted by: iris89

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Most of Gaza dead were terrorists
[Report this comment]
Posted by: mrjingles on Feb 16, 2009 3:09 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Lets salute the IDF for their great victory.

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Please stop embarrassing Christians...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: snowdancer76 on Feb 25, 2009 8:12 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You are obviously narrow-minded and uneducated on this topic and an embarrassment to Christianity. I can't believe that you actually believe what you wrote! It is such a shame that you cannot see and/or understand the error of your twisted, brain-washed ideas about Israel and Palestine. In fact, you have everything completely backwards. How can you call the Palestinians greedy when all they want is a decent portion of their OWN land? It is beyond me how anyone in their right mind could think as you do. For the sake of Christ, please do the RESEARCH! and then come back and apologize to all the people you have offended and while you are at it, you better ask God to forgive you too since you obviously "know not what you do".

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A New WAPI - WIFI Standards War Looms
[Report this comment]
Posted by: screw_1 on Feb 26, 2009 11:10 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
screw_1
___________________________-
video converter for mac

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Some posters are either ignorant of history and land title
[Report this comment]
Posted by: iris89 on Feb 27, 2009 6:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some posters are either ignorant of history and land title or just do not want to accept reality, the truth per John 8:32, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (Authorized King James Bible; AV).
Now let's look at reality:

Let's learn the truth that the squatters - Hamas - and associates do NOT own the land in Gaza, but Israel does. Here are the facts, and if anyone questions them, just go to my forum at http://jude3.proboards92.com/ A Free-Speech Forum For All and leave me a PM and I will get back to you:

Whose Land Is It? A Study of The Land of Palestine

INTRODUCTION:

Land title research in many areas is a very difficult task. In Mexico, the titles to farm land are so clouded it can take years to adequately search them. In some places the granting of title to land by a legitimate granter can go back over 3,500 years. One such place is the land of Palestine where current occupancy has no relationship to whom holds title.

Even some of the most famous buildings in the land of Palestine are actually squatters on land to which others hold title. The most famous instance of this is the Temple Mount and its squatter mosque that sits on the site of the ancient temple of ancient Hebrew kingdom and belongs to the Hebrews. This mess with many occupying land as squatters for which others hold title makes for an untenable position when the rightful title holder takes back his/her land, especially so when it is centuries later.

The present situation in much of Palestine is like the battle between the squatters and the owners, titleholders of land in the old west in the United States; to wit, squatters wanting to continue to squat and land owners wanting their land back. However, some additional situations enter the picture since many of the land owners - their ancestors - were forced off the their land by the Romans and by later Caliphs. Now of course the rule of law should be applied and the squatters finally brought to their day of reckoning with reality, they have no title to the land they are on.

To read the remainder, go to,

[go to] http://jude3.proboards92.com/index.cgi?board=islam

And then to the article, "Whose Land Is It? A Study of The Land of Palestine"

Iris89

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Some posters are either ignorant of history and land title
[Report this comment]
Posted by: iris89 on Feb 27, 2009 6:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some posters are either ignorant of history and land title or just do not want to accept reality, the truth per John 8:32, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (Authorized King James Bible; AV).
Now let's look at reality:

Let's learn the truth that the squatters - Hamas - and associates do NOT own the land in Gaza, but Israel does. Here are the facts, and if anyone questions them, just go to my forum at http://jude3.proboards92.com/ A Free-Speech Forum For All and leave me a PM and I will get back to you:

Whose Land Is It? A Study of The Land of Palestine

INTRODUCTION:

Land title research in many areas is a very difficult task. In Mexico, the titles to farm land are so clouded it can take years to adequately search them. In some places the granting of title to land by a legitimate granter can go back over 3,500 years. One such place is the land of Palestine where current occupancy has no relationship to whom holds title.

Even some of the most famous buildings in the land of Palestine are actually squatters on land to which others hold title. The most famous instance of this is the Temple Mount and its squatter mosque that sits on the site of the ancient temple of ancient Hebrew kingdom and belongs to the Hebrews. This mess with many occupying land as squatters for which others hold title makes for an untenable position when the rightful title holder takes back his/her land, especially so when it is centuries later.

The present situation in much of Palestine is like the battle between the squatters and the owners, titleholders of land in the old west in the United States; to wit, squatters wanting to continue to squat and land owners wanting their land back. However, some additional situations enter the picture since many of the land owners - their ancestors - were forced off the their land by the Romans and by later Caliphs. Now of course the rule of law should be applied and the squatters finally brought to their day of reckoning with reality, they have no title to the land they are on.

To read the remainder, go to,

[go to] http://jude3.proboards92.com/index.cgi?board=islam

And then to the article, "Whose Land Is It? A Study of The Land of Palestine"

If any wish to discuss and/or learn more, PM me on above forum.

Iris89

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Uncalled For Statements That Are Gross Error Made by Some:
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Posted by: iris89 on Feb 28, 2009 5:04 PM   
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Uncalled For Statements That Are Gross Error Made by Some:

What Is An Occupation, And Who Is An Occupier?

INTRODUCTION:

Many do NOT know what an occupation is or who is an occupier; nor can they distinguish between those occupying an area strictly as a police action, and those occupying for the purpose of permanently stealing the land of another.

First, let's look at the dictionary definition of occupation:

Occupation = 2a. The act or process of holding or possessing a place. b. The state of being held or possessed. 3a. Invasion, conquest, and control of a nation or territory by foreign armed forces. b. The military government exercising control over an occupied nation or territory. [source - The American Heritage(r) Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000]

Types of occupations:

Temporary occupation where an area is occupied for the purpose of establishing law and order with a view of leaving as quickly as possible when law and order is established.

Permanent occupation is when an area is occupied by foreign forces with a view of permanently holding the occupied area - wrongful occupation. Example, the Nazi German occupation of Poland where they intended to make Poland German territory and only given up when forced to do so. The wrongful occupation of Palestine by calips and sultans in the 7 th. Century with the intent of making this area which others held title their own and the wrongful moving in of their followers with no intent of ever giving it back to its rightful owners.

Of course some do not understand the right of the rightful owners to retake their land as shown by this comment on a forum on the Internet which even criticizes those calling for an end to wrongful occupation and wrongly implying the re-conquest of occupied land from the wrongful occupiers is wrong,

"You are obviously narrow-minded and uneducated on this topic and an embarrassment to Christianity. I can't believe that you actually believe what you wrote! It is such a shame that you cannot see and/or understand the error of your twisted, brain-washed ideas about Israel and Palestine. In fact, you have everything completely backwards. How can you call the Palestinians greedy when all they want is a decent portion of their OWN land? It is beyond me how anyone in their right mind could think as you do. For the sake of Christ, please do the RESEARCH! and then come back and apologize to all the people you have offended and while you are at it, you better ask God to forgive you too since you obviously "know not what you do".

To be noted, this individual, believe it or not, can NOT even understand that the rightful owners are in the RIGHT; whereas, the wrongful occupiers are not. This individual even has the nerve to call wrongfully occupied lands by the wrongful occupiers - their own land. But note, it no where shows that they EVER had legitimate title, and fails to mention they only had possession of the land by wrongful conquest - illegal occupation with intent to permanently steal it from the lands rightful occupation.

To read the remainder, go to:

"What Is An Occupation, And Who Is An Occupier?"

on sub-topic, 'WELCOME AND ANOUNCEMENT :: LAND TITLE SUMMARY'

At http://religioustruths.proboards59.com/

Anyone wanting more information and/or to discuss can PM me on the above forum.

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

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