COMMENTS: 98
Tim Geithner, Tell Us Why You're Rescuing the Very Private Interests that Led Us to Ruin
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The look and tone of the Treasury Secretary reminds me of the third grade. The smartest kid in the class, the one teachers loved, was the boy who always raised his hand and waved it impatiently while some other student fumbled for an answer. If the teacher stepped out of the room for a moment, bedlam usually followed and this kid would try to restore order. "Be quiet or I will tell." Kids threw things and tormented him until the teacher returned.
Timothy Geithner reminded me of that type as he lectured the country on how the Obama administration intends to save the financial system. The country is apparently responding in kind -- hurling blistering comments at him and the "best and brightest" who are now in high office. How could these smart people be so dumb about things everyone else already understands? Americans do not need to be told, as Geithner did, that they have "lost faith." The remark is condescending and infuriates further.
What people wanted to hear, in plain English, were hard answers and an honest acknowledgment of the extreme irregularity of events -- government is rushing to rescue the very private interests that led us to sorrow. Instead, Geithner told us he has a "plan." He will share the details at some later date. Be calm. Stay tuned.
It's unfair, I know, to pick on Geithner. Everyone says he is a nice guy and maybe so. But his opacity is staggering and fairly representative of the governing elites in this country. Events of the last six months have transformed the context of American politics and government. People do not need to be told things are bad because the bad things are happening to them. Nor do they need a scolding tone from official Washington, since they also know Washington was fully complicit as the titans of finance went wild. I wouldn't say Americans have been radicalized -- not yet -- but the unsatisfying political events are driving people in that direction. So is the lack of honest explanations and the refusal of Democrats and Republicans to confess error or offer apologies: silence feeds a popular suspicion that politicians are still working for the other side.
The question about Geithner that intrigues me is why. Why do brainy technocrats like him often seem so clueless (or, if you like, indifferent) to the social reality once they have risen to the top of the governing heap? I think it may have something to do with the experience of being the smartest kid around and being told so from an early age. This could encourage a narrow kind of arrogance, but maybe also insecurity. Over many years, I have seen a certain type both in politics and private life who climbs the slippery pole by applying intellectual firepower and performing for the teacher. Superiors are impressed and always like this dutiful type. Promotions take them higher and higher. Then they get to the top and it becomes obvious something is missing -- a capacity to think creatively in strange new circumstances or the human empathy required to lead others.
My curbstone analysis could be dead wrong about Geithner but might aptly describe the career path of Larry Summers, Obama's economic advisor. Summers rose to the top -- president of Harvard -- on his well-known brilliance and he was done in there by his personal arrogance. He ingratiated himself with superiors on the way up and adjusted his economic thinking to seasonal changes in ideological fashion. He also learned the bureaucratic skills needed for policy infighting -- how to cut other economists with opposing views out of the debate. He somehow did so in the Obama White House.
This is relevant now because Barack Obama has chosen to rely on Geithner and Summers for managing the economy and reforming it. If they are too narrow in perspective, too defensive in behalf of the failed status quo, the Obama presidency will be crippled by their lack of imagination. That leads to another question: why did Obama feel the need to select such a confining list of familiar technocrats -- competent and brainy like himself -- to run the government? The president is neither arrogant nor insecure -- he exudes the opposite -- yet he must feel more comfortable dealing with folks vetted by the same ladder of success. Perhaps he believes the "best and the brightest" will protect him from failure. Or maybe he thinks his presidency will have more power to change things if he sticks with people drawn from among the influential elites, safely aligned with the existing power structure.
The fact is, we do not yet know the answer. Events are rapidly revealing the nature of this new president, and we have a lot to learn. We know how smart he is, how easily he empathizes with people across the usual dividing lines. We do not yet know if he is wise enough -- tough enough -- to lead the country to new ground.
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Posted by: Jay Randal on Feb 13, 2009 12:35 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Unsure if Obama is even in control?!
Posted by: georgiaorwell
» RE: Unsure if Obama is even in control?!
Posted by: richholland
» This author and posters are being way too kind......
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: This author and posters are being way too kind......
Posted by: jeffnc
» Yup, your right, but lets be smart about it.....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Yup, your right, but lets be smart about it.....
Posted by: madmax427
» Hey, I am on your side buddy...don't get mad at me for giving advice....
Posted by: Prophit
» Ok, this is quite a few hours later now.... and I have had time...
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: This author and posters are being way too kind......
Posted by: racetoinfinity
» TIME TO BRING BACK THE GUILLOTINE
Posted by: orda
» Hahaha, that makes my suggestion seem like childs play...
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: Animal on Feb 13, 2009 12:46 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Having someone like Geithner in charge of the Treasury....
Posted by: georgiaorwell
» Yeah, me tooo..... I gaffawed for about 5 minutes.......
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Having someone like Geithner in charge of the Treasury....
Posted by: wrinklemomma
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Posted by: writerman on Feb 13, 2009 1:28 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What really surprised me about Obama is how bad he is at public speaking without the benefit of the autocue. Witness his first press conference for evidence of this. I actually think he's worse than Bush. At least Bush gave the impression he was in charge. Obama seems simply out of his depth, halting and unsure of himself. I think this is because he's a student of rhetoric, not ideology; and brilliant rhetorical skills without ideological balast and content, are soon exposed as nothing more than a hollow shell.
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» RE: Just a Figurehead? - TROLL ALERT!
Posted by: Gisele
» Hey, even a troll can speak truth on occasion.....
Posted by: Prophit
» Your hope for America is misplaced and wasted
Posted by: barefeet
» RE: Your hope for America is misplaced and wasted
Posted by: Prophit
» Not as bad as Bush, but …
Posted by: DJC11
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Posted by: ender on Feb 13, 2009 2:02 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People like "Cartman" from South Park rise to the top. He's not the smartest or strongest, but he has the strength of amorality going for him. Couple that with an understanding of manipulating people in large numbers (Rove & Goering) and you have a potent force to be reckoned with that no amount of inconvenient truths can easily dislodge and cannot be reasoned with (Bush, Judge Scalia, Fox News, Rush, Coulter etc.)
The same is true for corporations - it's just a question of scale.
Corporations have one legal mandate and one legal mandate ONLY: create as much wealth as possible for the shareholders. That's it. When the courts are loaded with Repugnican judges and the legislative branch is owned by corporate lobbyists, the cost of any penalties is less than the cost of doing the right and/or legal thing and hence, simply added to the cost of doing business.
For example, say a corporation does their taxes legally and owes a million bucks, but if they cheat, they owe nothing and if get caught cheating, they'll only owe a hundred grand a few years from now. Obviously, cheating is cheaper; ergo, they cheat. In fact, in that situation, they would be LEGALLY COMPELLED to cheat in order to provide the most money to their shareholders.
Corporations and politicians face that kind of situation at every turn and guess which direction they usually choose. And penalties can be fought for decades (Exxon/Valdez, GE/Hudson River, Dupont/Bhopal) which lowers the cost directly via inflation and appeals. If nothing else, it pushes the payment to the next fiscal year which means, "I got my bonus, baby! Who cares about next year? Screw the next guy!"
Cost of doing business, citizen. What are you, a communist or something? Nothing to see here, citizen. Move along.
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» RE: Hey now...it's worth a perfect +10.
Posted by: Gisele
» RE: Hey now...it's worth a perfect +10.
Posted by: ender
» RE: Hey now...it's worth a perfect +10.
Posted by: Alcinor
» RE: Hey now...it's worth a perfect +10.
Posted by: ender
» RE: Hey now
Posted by: richholland
» RE: Hey now
Posted by: ender
» RE: Hey now, beyond words...?
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Hey now, beyond words...?
Posted by: ender
» RE: Counterexample
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Counterexample
Posted by: ender
» It was Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis
Posted by: mclemens
» NOW we are doing it right..... speak "truth" to power...Its the only way.
Posted by: Prophit
» Well, I am an old broad and retired now, so they have given me....
Posted by: Prophit
» Yeah, I heard those derivatives were at $400 trillion and they...
Posted by: Prophit
» TIME TO GET THE HAMMERS OUT
Posted by: orda
» RE: TIME TO GET THE HAMMERS OUT
Posted by: ender
» Oh, I love it..... hahaha, what a great idea.... I saw a sign..
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Hey now
Posted by: racetoinfinity
» RE: Hey now
Posted by: ender
» RE: Hey, now that describes a psychopath, Ender!
Posted by: ender
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Posted by: sicntired on Feb 13, 2009 4:18 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Tax cheats
Posted by: orda
» Or Geithner, the figure head of the left.
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: joebhed on Feb 13, 2009 5:12 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is supposed to be where progressive ideas are fashioned.
What has Bill Greider accomplished by showing the smartest kids don't know what to do about getting us out of this mess?
The fact that Geithner and Summers are a pair of the gang that brung us to this dance does NOTHING for solving the situation.
In the absence of progressive substance on the part of Mr. Greider, I am offering up the following as a solution.
A combination of Friedman on MONEY Quantity and CREATION, and Irving Fisher on 100 Percent Reserve Banking.
Friedman: "Creation of fiat-money should be a government monopoly". That would be government creation of the money-supply, debt-free at issue. Abolish the money-creating powers of the FED.
Fisher on 100 Percent Reserve Banking:
It has as its goals-
1. to keep checking banks 100% liquid;
2. to prevent inflation and deflation;
3. largely to cure or prevent depressions;
4. to wipe out much of the National Debt.
What progressives DO NOT need today is a louder more strident criticism.
That's too easy, and dis-empowering.
What we need is a plan for getting out of this mess.
Dennis Kucinich is in the process of bringing such a plan forward.
We would all do well were Greider, Baker, Kuttner, Klein, Krugman, Galbraith et. al on board with a REAL solution.
How do we get there, progressives?
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» FIRST, AND FOREMOST, you have to do something about...
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Stephen Zarlenga & AMI
Posted by: FeralCat
» Dennis should have been the President..... I tried so hard....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Dennis should have been the President..... I tried so hard....
Posted by: wrinklemomma
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Posted by: seazen on Feb 13, 2009 5:21 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The current global financial system is a massive, highly interactive, and complicated set of organizations, instruments, and regulations whose tentacles reach deep into every industry, government and family. We are correct in being outraged that those meant to oversee this systems let it run amok and that we have been deeply harmed while a few ran away with ill-gotten gains.
It will take years and the hard work of many, many people here and abroad to right this ship. A small handful of people even have a glimmer of how the system operates and access to the data, the technology, and the analysts to being to make sense of it all.
Asking Geitner, or anyone else, to deliver some 5 sentence, explicit statement as to exactly how this is going to resolve itself is presumptuous. We need better controls, we need accountability, we need transparency, but give them a break. A month? And they are supposed to have this all worked out after 8 years of sustained neglect?
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» Your right, you don't understand... its not some big mistake...
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: villager1 on Feb 13, 2009 5:23 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The answer is that "The Boss" put them there.
We may conclude then that "The Boss" has a motive.
The question now is "Is that motive determined by "The Boss" or orchestrated by "The Elites?"
I am just very curious, since in normal business practice incompetent appointees are usually fired after a probation period, not heaped with adoration and additional benefits, unless there is a hidden agenda!
We are left to guess at that, but it is not invalid for us "normal citizens"- (nee'idiots) to suspect that " things are not always as they seem to be " and to question the validity of those appointee's as well as the reasoning behind "The Boss's" decision to make those appointments, plus the very clear indication that "The Boss" has no intention of dealing thoroughly with the most relevant problem (The Wall Street Shysters) and consequently is "Himself" as much to blame as them all. Putting a ceiling on earnings or "retention bonuses" is ludicrous!
If someone screws up fire them! Who's the boss here anyway?
In any business I have worked in,there were always standards of performance and certain evaluations
in place to determine the suitability or otherwise of any employee,(including the boss), but in Government that does not seem to apply.
NOTE:
I work in a comission only industry- real estate i.e. no sales = no pay! The real estate business has become difficult lately but we cut our cloth accordingly unlike the Wall Street Thugs.
Overindulgence of any kind is wicked and sinful and one can easily see those who overindulge by the florid complexion, bloated bellies and jittery look in their eyes.
Ring any bell's?
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Posted by: 911FalseFlag on Feb 13, 2009 5:35 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Often the simple explanation is the correct one. It does not matter what Obama says but it truly does matter what he does and who he appoints to Important financial positions.
The Federal Reserve is the most fraudulent scam invented in modern history or ever. The Federal Reserve is the life blood of the monster called the War Machine. The monster is brainless and ruthless and will certainly destroy the planet if its feeding system is not broken down and totally annihilated. As a matter of fact only a true revolution and public uprising can undue the vicious and malicious scheme. But first there has to be public awareness at a planetary dimension because the entire planet is suffering from its ravages and havoc.
go to 911 inside job.net
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Posted by: cori on Feb 13, 2009 5:49 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nationalized banks are the "only answer," economist Stiglitz says. In an interview with Deutsche Welle, Nobel-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz talks about nationalizing banks, the outlook for developing countries, and the need for an international financial regulator.
Why didn't Obama pick him? Obama is experiment, an act of desperation from our being subjected to the madness of the Republicans, Bush, Chaney, Wolfowitz and the whole corrupt gang that led us into this mess. Obama will be at war with the Republicans who want him to fail too. I believe his picks of Griethner and Summers are short sighted. If we weren't paying 1 trillion per yr to the military + all the tens of billions to the heath insurance, drug companies and prisons, we could afford national health care, free day care, affordable housing, food for the millions of starving Americans. You can't have it both ways. I think we will just spend ourselves into oblivion leaving this nation on an economic ash heap. Too many in power want to maintain the status quo. People are not going to go back to their old spending habits when we have no safety nets. We learned that there is nothing there when we lose our jobs, healthcare, or can't afford to live on pathetic wages. The stimulus package leaves too many people behind and doesn’t give enough. We have a national Katrina on our hands and they have put a band aid on it. Also spending is not the only way to get us out of this read FREE LUNCH. We also need serious tax restructuring and no more corporate welfare that rapes us.
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» RE: I agree and am very worried about Obama's choices.
Posted by: racetoinfinity
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Posted by: undead on Feb 13, 2009 5:59 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Problem solved.
I just find the situation very entertaining. I am sure the great spirit is laughing very loudly at our "plans."
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» Very good, have you thought about applying for a job with the CFR???
Posted by: Prophit
» You said: you may live happier, if not longer.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Nature bats last.
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: In it together...
Posted by: oregoncharles
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Posted by: etalby on Feb 13, 2009 6:05 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Et
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» Actually its a plutocracy with a military backing.
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: Scottk on Feb 13, 2009 6:05 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don't worry the sycophant Democrats will support him no matter what, I mean, the guy has a D behind he his name, enough said in their minds.
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Posted by: Scottk on Feb 13, 2009 6:11 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The answer is simple, like Mark Twain said: you can not expect a man to see what it is he being paid not to see.
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Posted by: PointMan on Feb 13, 2009 6:16 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama seems out of touch and a bit scared. The whole mess reeks of a bad Hollywood corporate gangster script where the actors don't quite have their lines down. Unfortunately, it's real and the bloody consequences are likely to break the U.S. into even more a 2nd rate banana oligarch Police State than it is now.
No matter how glib and smooth Obama is, it hardly matters. He's way out of his depth and no better at acting "president" than say Morgan Freeman or Denzel Washington in the role he was bankrolled into. (that's a compliment for acting skills - not for being anywhere near a real president)
Greider says people aren't being given the truth with a lack of honest explanations. Of course, that includes Greider himself that has never once admitted the "FED" is a private POLICE STATE Mafia style extortion fraud that virtually rigs the DC and media runway show.
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Posted by: gazooks on Feb 13, 2009 6:17 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not to be apologistic for the lack of reforming vision apparent in the administration's attempts to salvage a broken banking system, but the nether region of the global derivatives market is opaque.
Geithner is positioned like a catcher at home plate with Nolan Ryan delivering hard fast-balls of toxic derivative contract liabilities in an unlit ballpark at midnight. He doesn't know what's coming until it hits, he needs a very, very big mitt and must nail investment runners stealing second base. This is not an enviable position.
The administration can not promote panic to already spooked markets, but in unregulated, private exchange global markets with a complex matrix of counter-parties, there's NO predictability because there's NO transparency.
The kind of strategic detail that's being clamored for to satisfy market anxieties is only possible for market regions of known quantity for establishing asset value. Ironically, the biggest critical mouthpieces are the same astute politicians that oversaw the abandonment of legislated oversight and prudent restrictions to investment banking practices.
So, Geithner's armed with estimated, fractionally allocated resources to compensate for potential banking exposure to an exercised notional value of HUNDREDS of TRILLIONS of $'s @ 95% average leverage in contract liabilities.
These are essentially insurance contracts that the banks sold for quarterly fees to purchasing investors of the now euphemistically famous "toxic assets". They are instruments based on theoretic, mathematical models intended to disperse and neutralize the risk of financial contract performance and apparently intrinsically miscalculated the downside reality of their fraudulently crafted value basis.
In a nutshell, there is NO calculus to determine with accuracy, in the course of a broad market correction/collapse, the probable exercised volume and total notional value as a percentage of a $600 trillion unregulated, private exchange traded global market. A continued decline in the broad economy further triggers the exercise of contract obligations.
A financial black hole is sucking the equity from a public unable or unwilling to insist that it's leaders prudently represent their interests. It's a complex systemic failure generations in the making for which we're all responsible and there's no easy out. Damned if we do hyper-inflation, damed if we don't market disintegration.
Prepare as we can for what follows, but what lies ahead is uncharted terrain with guides that do not know the way.
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» Those "Lead Curtains" were Sold & Mocked Up on Purpose
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps
» RE: Those "Lead Curtains" were Sold & Mocked Up on Purpose
Posted by: gazooks
» RE: Those "Lead Curtains" were Sold & Mocked Up on Purpose
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps
» RE: Those "Lead Curtains" were Sold & Mocked Up on Purpose
Posted by: gazooks
» RE: Let them go down.
Posted by: oregoncharles
» Or they can chauffer for their favorite congressman or senator...
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: Alcinor on Feb 13, 2009 6:58 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That is like being surprised to find bear shit in the woods!
Whom do you think politicians work for? They work for people with MONEY. If you are just realizing this, you should not be the one giving advice and criticism.
Ultimately it is the International Bankers, say the Rothschilds, who own and control the Fed who are behind this debacle. Central banks like the Fed, who by the way is as Federal as Federal Express, love to create wars and ecomomic chaos because it dramatically increases the need for the money that they create out of thin air and are only too happy to loan to governments.
Politicians will only act on our behalf if we threaten their re-election. Let's get busy. Send letters, make phone calls, send emails, let them know that if they don't support us, we will not support them!
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Posted by: solrev on Feb 13, 2009 7:06 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: floridahank on Feb 13, 2009 8:18 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
human beings. The driving force is self -
preservation, protection, betterment and
improvement for onself -- be it a Democrat or Republican -- there's no
basic difference between individuals in 99% of the cases. We won't see
much positive change for the next 4 years.
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Posted by: FeralCat on Feb 13, 2009 8:23 AM
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Yes, the whiz kids and student council presidents end up in Washington and they do not really have many people skills or any reason why they are there other than winning the next logical position.
David Korten says that these people are caught in "an imperial consciousness". They are perpetual kids who understand that you can steal things from people who trust you. You lose a lot of friends that way, but there are always other friends to find. These are the people attracted to public office now. People who grow up have little use for Washington.
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Posted by: jimswanson on Feb 13, 2009 8:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"The Bush League of Nations"
www.bushleagueofnations.com [for FREE download of entire $25.95 book]
Timothy Geithner and “Government Goldman Sachs"—I fear that a skulk of fox is still in charge of the chicken coop.
We recently poured several hundred billion dollars of taxpayer money into the cesspool known as America’s financial system.
What did we get in return? No stimulus. No accounting. Nothing.
We are truly nuts.
But I see an instructive parallel here.
Dumping that money into that Fat Cat cesspool was like Bush and the GOP giving hundreds of billions of dollars in tax breaks to the Super Rich.
In both cases, we got nothing in return. No stimulus. No accounting. Nothing.
Nothing, that is, other than a multitude of moral and financial deficits.
Welcome to the GOP Great Depression II.
We are truly out of our gourds.
James A. Swanson, Los Altos, CA
"The Bush League of Nations"
www.bushleagueofnations.com [for FREE download of entire $25.95 book]
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» RE: What GOP?
Posted by: oregoncharles
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Posted by: sgparry on Feb 13, 2009 9:32 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In a technological society, where "technique" become supreme, "means" tend to become more important than "ends." The technique by which things are done get more attention than the reason we are doing something or the goal we seek. We all know that tecnology is very seductive, we want the latest gadget, we hope that nuclear power or new medicines will solve our problems.
Two: In a technological society, secondary thinking becomes more important than primary thinking. How we do somethng becomes more important than why we are doing it. This gives primacy to people like Geitner, who have master the "techniques" of our arcane finance system. It also allows them to create a finance system that only they can understand, creating the technological priesthood, we call "the best and the brightest."
So Obama went to the Federal Reserve, the high temple of the financial pristhood to find an oracle. And what we see is the Geithner protecting that priesthood.
Early on little Tim learned how to read the "Jesuits" in the classroom, and give them what they want. And in our technolgical society that meant math and science. He not only knew the answers he knew how to "read" the teacher and knew what the questions were going to be on the test. The priesthood channeled him away from the soft liberal arts into the left-brain areas of math and science. Developing perspective and creative thinking were not rewarded.
Obama came of age in this culture. It is no suprise that he would turn to the financial wonks for their techniqual agility rather than their judgement, which has been fluid.
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Posted by: Jersey Devil on Feb 13, 2009 9:57 AM
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» RE: The Peter Principal
Posted by: sawdust
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Posted by: sawdust on Feb 13, 2009 10:12 AM
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And "saviours" who arrive amid great fanfare and with a flowered resume usually are not.
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Posted by: sawdust on Feb 13, 2009 10:17 AM
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Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield on Feb 13, 2009 10:50 AM
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Posted by: oregoncharles on Feb 13, 2009 11:42 AM
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Posted by: larryltm on Feb 13, 2009 2:51 PM
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reality once they have risen to the top of the governing heap? . . ."
I'm surprised to hear you have to ask this question. I don't know for sure, but I have to believe Geithner, Obama, and the rest of the banking crew are all members of the CFR. As such they are first aligned with the interests of their kinsmen, and rarely if ever with the rest of us. I came out of the corporate world and know very well how the people at the top get there. Mastery of the barracuda tactics required to move ahead is essential. Knowledge of the business is secondary and with many of these barracudas it isn't even a consideration. Hence many of those that rise to the top are clueless about what makes their operations run. Usually this leads to their downfall. What we've seen in the financial world is exactly that with enough time to destroy, not only individual companies, but an entire system as well. Some people who are essential to solving corporate crippling problems are tolerated up to a point. Once their usefulness to the barracudas wanes so do their positions if not their jobs. This is the way it is in most corporate hierarchies and will probably always be so. What we don't need at the top of the barracuda pyramid is a secret society like the CFR into which these less than honorable or knowledgeable specimens can join with others like themselves and get to run the government. There can be no real representative government until we get rid of the hold that the secret societies have on public office.
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Posted by: wormfarmer on Feb 13, 2009 6:37 PM
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A democracy is a government by, for, and of THE PEOPLE. Some of our founding fathers were of the mind that the masses were not intelligent enough to govern themselves. Lets prove that assumption false.
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Posted by: yellow on Feb 15, 2009 2:35 PM
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As long as the conspiracy mongering morons like most Alterneters believe that capitalism is OK except for corruption or da Jooooz there will be no change. Of course, right wing populism doesn't help either.
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Posted by: reelman on Feb 19, 2009 11:04 AM
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More Than 500 Protest Obama’s Arrival In Mesa, Arizona. 2.18.2009
The protestors, about 500 to 600 strong and growing, began arriving as ticket-holders walked in. . . . They held their signs up high: “Don’t tread on me,” “Spend all you want, I’ll pick up the tab,” “I’ll keep my freedom! You keep the change!” “Free fertility drugs now.” And “B.O. smells and so does Socialism.”
CRAWFISH NOTE: Radical socialists do what radical socialists do…they cannot manage a hot dog stand. This angry clueless man is a victim-worshiper bent on punishing higher achievers and buying the votes of the low achievers. Less than 30 days and some voters are already realizing this man is a radical socialist (as his record and life history show)…a trillion more of debt for the voters too…no surprise here. The lib-media will keep changing his diapers. We warned voters for six months. Enjoy the democrat socialism, suckers.
http://conservablogs.com/theconservativecrawfish/
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Posted by: Jay Randal on Feb 13, 2009 12:35 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Unsure if Obama is even in control?!
Posted by: georgiaorwell
» RE: Unsure if Obama is even in control?!
Posted by: richholland
» This author and posters are being way too kind......
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: This author and posters are being way too kind......
Posted by: jeffnc
» Yup, your right, but lets be smart about it.....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Yup, your right, but lets be smart about it.....
Posted by: madmax427
» Hey, I am on your side buddy...don't get mad at me for giving advice....
Posted by: Prophit
» Ok, this is quite a few hours later now.... and I have had time...
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: This author and posters are being way too kind......
Posted by: racetoinfinity
» TIME TO BRING BACK THE GUILLOTINE
Posted by: orda
» Hahaha, that makes my suggestion seem like childs play...
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: Animal on Feb 13, 2009 12:46 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Having someone like Geithner in charge of the Treasury....
Posted by: georgiaorwell
» Yeah, me tooo..... I gaffawed for about 5 minutes.......
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Having someone like Geithner in charge of the Treasury....
Posted by: wrinklemomma
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Posted by: writerman on Feb 13, 2009 1:28 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What really surprised me about Obama is how bad he is at public speaking without the benefit of the autocue. Witness his first press conference for evidence of this. I actually think he's worse than Bush. At least Bush gave the impression he was in charge. Obama seems simply out of his depth, halting and unsure of himself. I think this is because he's a student of rhetoric, not ideology; and brilliant rhetorical skills without ideological balast and content, are soon exposed as nothing more than a hollow shell.
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» RE: Just a Figurehead? - TROLL ALERT!
Posted by: Gisele
» Hey, even a troll can speak truth on occasion.....
Posted by: Prophit
» Your hope for America is misplaced and wasted
Posted by: barefeet
» RE: Your hope for America is misplaced and wasted
Posted by: Prophit
» Not as bad as Bush, but …
Posted by: DJC11
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Posted by: ender on Feb 13, 2009 2:02 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People like "Cartman" from South Park rise to the top. He's not the smartest or strongest, but he has the strength of amorality going for him. Couple that with an understanding of manipulating people in large numbers (Rove & Goering) and you have a potent force to be reckoned with that no amount of inconvenient truths can easily dislodge and cannot be reasoned with (Bush, Judge Scalia, Fox News, Rush, Coulter etc.)
The same is true for corporations - it's just a question of scale.
Corporations have one legal mandate and one legal mandate ONLY: create as much wealth as possible for the shareholders. That's it. When the courts are loaded with Repugnican judges and the legislative branch is owned by corporate lobbyists, the cost of any penalties is less than the cost of doing the right and/or legal thing and hence, simply added to the cost of doing business.
For example, say a corporation does their taxes legally and owes a million bucks, but if they cheat, they owe nothing and if get caught cheating, they'll only owe a hundred grand a few years from now. Obviously, cheating is cheaper; ergo, they cheat. In fact, in that situation, they would be LEGALLY COMPELLED to cheat in order to provide the most money to their shareholders.
Corporations and politicians face that kind of situation at every turn and guess which direction they usually choose. And penalties can be fought for decades (Exxon/Valdez, GE/Hudson River, Dupont/Bhopal) which lowers the cost directly via inflation and appeals. If nothing else, it pushes the payment to the next fiscal year which means, "I got my bonus, baby! Who cares about next year? Screw the next guy!"
Cost of doing business, citizen. What are you, a communist or something? Nothing to see here, citizen. Move along.
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» RE: Hey now...it's worth a perfect +10.
Posted by: Gisele
» RE: Hey now...it's worth a perfect +10.
Posted by: ender
» RE: Hey now...it's worth a perfect +10.
Posted by: Alcinor
» RE: Hey now...it's worth a perfect +10.
Posted by: ender
» RE: Hey now
Posted by: richholland
» RE: Hey now
Posted by: ender
» RE: Hey now, beyond words...?
Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Hey now, beyond words...?
Posted by: ender
» RE: Counterexample
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Counterexample
Posted by: ender
» It was Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis
Posted by: mclemens
» NOW we are doing it right..... speak "truth" to power...Its the only way.
Posted by: Prophit
» Well, I am an old broad and retired now, so they have given me....
Posted by: Prophit
» Yeah, I heard those derivatives were at $400 trillion and they...
Posted by: Prophit
» TIME TO GET THE HAMMERS OUT
Posted by: orda
» RE: TIME TO GET THE HAMMERS OUT
Posted by: ender
» Oh, I love it..... hahaha, what a great idea.... I saw a sign..
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Hey now
Posted by: racetoinfinity
» RE: Hey now
Posted by: ender
» RE: Hey, now that describes a psychopath, Ender!
Posted by: ender
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Posted by: sicntired on Feb 13, 2009 4:18 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Tax cheats
Posted by: orda
» Or Geithner, the figure head of the left.
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: joebhed on Feb 13, 2009 5:12 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is supposed to be where progressive ideas are fashioned.
What has Bill Greider accomplished by showing the smartest kids don't know what to do about getting us out of this mess?
The fact that Geithner and Summers are a pair of the gang that brung us to this dance does NOTHING for solving the situation.
In the absence of progressive substance on the part of Mr. Greider, I am offering up the following as a solution.
A combination of Friedman on MONEY Quantity and CREATION, and Irving Fisher on 100 Percent Reserve Banking.
Friedman: "Creation of fiat-money should be a government monopoly". That would be government creation of the money-supply, debt-free at issue. Abolish the money-creating powers of the FED.
Fisher on 100 Percent Reserve Banking:
It has as its goals-
1. to keep checking banks 100% liquid;
2. to prevent inflation and deflation;
3. largely to cure or prevent depressions;
4. to wipe out much of the National Debt.
What progressives DO NOT need today is a louder more strident criticism.
That's too easy, and dis-empowering.
What we need is a plan for getting out of this mess.
Dennis Kucinich is in the process of bringing such a plan forward.
We would all do well were Greider, Baker, Kuttner, Klein, Krugman, Galbraith et. al on board with a REAL solution.
How do we get there, progressives?
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» FIRST, AND FOREMOST, you have to do something about...
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Stephen Zarlenga & AMI
Posted by: FeralCat
» Dennis should have been the President..... I tried so hard....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Dennis should have been the President..... I tried so hard....
Posted by: wrinklemomma
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Posted by: seazen on Feb 13, 2009 5:21 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The current global financial system is a massive, highly interactive, and complicated set of organizations, instruments, and regulations whose tentacles reach deep into every industry, government and family. We are correct in being outraged that those meant to oversee this systems let it run amok and that we have been deeply harmed while a few ran away with ill-gotten gains.
It will take years and the hard work of many, many people here and abroad to right this ship. A small handful of people even have a glimmer of how the system operates and access to the data, the technology, and the analysts to being to make sense of it all.
Asking Geitner, or anyone else, to deliver some 5 sentence, explicit statement as to exactly how this is going to resolve itself is presumptuous. We need better controls, we need accountability, we need transparency, but give them a break. A month? And they are supposed to have this all worked out after 8 years of sustained neglect?
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» Your right, you don't understand... its not some big mistake...
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: villager1 on Feb 13, 2009 5:23 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The answer is that "The Boss" put them there.
We may conclude then that "The Boss" has a motive.
The question now is "Is that motive determined by "The Boss" or orchestrated by "The Elites?"
I am just very curious, since in normal business practice incompetent appointees are usually fired after a probation period, not heaped with adoration and additional benefits, unless there is a hidden agenda!
We are left to guess at that, but it is not invalid for us "normal citizens"- (nee'idiots) to suspect that " things are not always as they seem to be " and to question the validity of those appointee's as well as the reasoning behind "The Boss's" decision to make those appointments, plus the very clear indication that "The Boss" has no intention of dealing thoroughly with the most relevant problem (The Wall Street Shysters) and consequently is "Himself" as much to blame as them all. Putting a ceiling on earnings or "retention bonuses" is ludicrous!
If someone screws up fire them! Who's the boss here anyway?
In any business I have worked in,there were always standards of performance and certain evaluations
in place to determine the suitability or otherwise of any employee,(including the boss), but in Government that does not seem to apply.
NOTE:
I work in a comission only industry- real estate i.e. no sales = no pay! The real estate business has become difficult lately but we cut our cloth accordingly unlike the Wall Street Thugs.
Overindulgence of any kind is wicked and sinful and one can easily see those who overindulge by the florid complexion, bloated bellies and jittery look in their eyes.
Ring any bell's?
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Posted by: 911FalseFlag on Feb 13, 2009 5:35 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Often the simple explanation is the correct one. It does not matter what Obama says but it truly does matter what he does and who he appoints to Important financial positions.
The Federal Reserve is the most fraudulent scam invented in modern history or ever. The Federal Reserve is the life blood of the monster called the War Machine. The monster is brainless and ruthless and will certainly destroy the planet if its feeding system is not broken down and totally annihilated. As a matter of fact only a true revolution and public uprising can undue the vicious and malicious scheme. But first there has to be public awareness at a planetary dimension because the entire planet is suffering from its ravages and havoc.
go to 911 inside job.net
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Posted by: cori on Feb 13, 2009 5:49 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nationalized banks are the "only answer," economist Stiglitz says. In an interview with Deutsche Welle, Nobel-winning economist Joseph Stiglitz talks about nationalizing banks, the outlook for developing countries, and the need for an international financial regulator.
Why didn't Obama pick him? Obama is experiment, an act of desperation from our being subjected to the madness of the Republicans, Bush, Chaney, Wolfowitz and the whole corrupt gang that led us into this mess. Obama will be at war with the Republicans who want him to fail too. I believe his picks of Griethner and Summers are short sighted. If we weren't paying 1 trillion per yr to the military + all the tens of billions to the heath insurance, drug companies and prisons, we could afford national health care, free day care, affordable housing, food for the millions of starving Americans. You can't have it both ways. I think we will just spend ourselves into oblivion leaving this nation on an economic ash heap. Too many in power want to maintain the status quo. People are not going to go back to their old spending habits when we have no safety nets. We learned that there is nothing there when we lose our jobs, healthcare, or can't afford to live on pathetic wages. The stimulus package leaves too many people behind and doesn’t give enough. We have a national Katrina on our hands and they have put a band aid on it. Also spending is not the only way to get us out of this read FREE LUNCH. We also need serious tax restructuring and no more corporate welfare that rapes us.
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» RE: I agree and am very worried about Obama's choices.
Posted by: racetoinfinity
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Posted by: undead on Feb 13, 2009 5:59 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Problem solved.
I just find the situation very entertaining. I am sure the great spirit is laughing very loudly at our "plans."
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» Very good, have you thought about applying for a job with the CFR???
Posted by: Prophit
» You said: you may live happier, if not longer.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Nature bats last.
Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: In it together...
Posted by: oregoncharles
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Posted by: etalby on Feb 13, 2009 6:05 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Et
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» Actually its a plutocracy with a military backing.
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: Scottk on Feb 13, 2009 6:05 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don't worry the sycophant Democrats will support him no matter what, I mean, the guy has a D behind he his name, enough said in their minds.
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Posted by: Scottk on Feb 13, 2009 6:11 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The answer is simple, like Mark Twain said: you can not expect a man to see what it is he being paid not to see.
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Posted by: PointMan on Feb 13, 2009 6:16 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama seems out of touch and a bit scared. The whole mess reeks of a bad Hollywood corporate gangster script where the actors don't quite have their lines down. Unfortunately, it's real and the bloody consequences are likely to break the U.S. into even more a 2nd rate banana oligarch Police State than it is now.
No matter how glib and smooth Obama is, it hardly matters. He's way out of his depth and no better at acting "president" than say Morgan Freeman or Denzel Washington in the role he was bankrolled into. (that's a compliment for acting skills - not for being anywhere near a real president)
Greider says people aren't being given the truth with a lack of honest explanations. Of course, that includes Greider himself that has never once admitted the "FED" is a private POLICE STATE Mafia style extortion fraud that virtually rigs the DC and media runway show.
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Posted by: gazooks on Feb 13, 2009 6:17 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not to be apologistic for the lack of reforming vision apparent in the administration's attempts to salvage a broken banking system, but the nether region of the global derivatives market is opaque.
Geithner is positioned like a catcher at home plate with Nolan Ryan delivering hard fast-balls of toxic derivative contract liabilities in an unlit ballpark at midnight. He doesn't know what's coming until it hits, he needs a very, very big mitt and must nail investment runners stealing second base. This is not an enviable position.
The administration can not promote panic to already spooked markets, but in unregulated, private exchange global markets with a complex matrix of counter-parties, there's NO predictability because there's NO transparency.
The kind of strategic detail that's being clamored for to satisfy market anxieties is only possible for market regions of known quantity for establishing asset value. Ironically, the biggest critical mouthpieces are the same astute politicians that oversaw the abandonment of legislated oversight and prudent restrictions to investment banking practices.
So, Geithner's armed with estimated, fractionally allocated resources to compensate for potential banking exposure to an exercised notional value of HUNDREDS of TRILLIONS of $'s @ 95% average leverage in contract liabilities.
These are essentially insurance contracts that the banks sold for quarterly fees to purchasing investors of the now euphemistically famous "toxic assets". They are instruments based on theoretic, mathematical models intended to disperse and neutralize the risk of financial contract performance and apparently intrinsically miscalculated the downside reality of their fraudulently crafted value basis.
In a nutshell, there is NO calculus to determine with accuracy, in the course of a broad market correction/collapse, the probable exercised volume and total notional value as a percentage of a $600 trillion unregulated, private exchange traded global market. A continued decline in the broad economy further triggers the exercise of contract obligations.
A financial black hole is sucking the equity from a public unable or unwilling to insist that it's leaders prudently represent their interests. It's a complex systemic failure generations in the making for which we're all responsible and there's no easy out. Damned if we do hyper-inflation, damed if we don't market disintegration.
Prepare as we can for what follows, but what lies ahead is uncharted terrain with guides that do not know the way.
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» Those "Lead Curtains" were Sold & Mocked Up on Purpose
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps
» RE: Those "Lead Curtains" were Sold & Mocked Up on Purpose
Posted by: gazooks
» RE: Those "Lead Curtains" were Sold & Mocked Up on Purpose
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps
» RE: Those "Lead Curtains" were Sold & Mocked Up on Purpose
Posted by: gazooks
» RE: Let them go down.
Posted by: oregoncharles
» Or they can chauffer for their favorite congressman or senator...
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: Alcinor on Feb 13, 2009 6:58 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That is like being surprised to find bear shit in the woods!
Whom do you think politicians work for? They work for people with MONEY. If you are just realizing this, you should not be the one giving advice and criticism.
Ultimately it is the International Bankers, say the Rothschilds, who own and control the Fed who are behind this debacle. Central banks like the Fed, who by the way is as Federal as Federal Express, love to create wars and ecomomic chaos because it dramatically increases the need for the money that they create out of thin air and are only too happy to loan to governments.
Politicians will only act on our behalf if we threaten their re-election. Let's get busy. Send letters, make phone calls, send emails, let them know that if they don't support us, we will not support them!
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Posted by: solrev on Feb 13, 2009 7:06 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: floridahank on Feb 13, 2009 8:18 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
human beings. The driving force is self -
preservation, protection, betterment and
improvement for onself -- be it a Democrat or Republican -- there's no
basic difference between individuals in 99% of the cases. We won't see
much positive change for the next 4 years.
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Posted by: FeralCat on Feb 13, 2009 8:23 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, the whiz kids and student council presidents end up in Washington and they do not really have many people skills or any reason why they are there other than winning the next logical position.
David Korten says that these people are caught in "an imperial consciousness". They are perpetual kids who understand that you can steal things from people who trust you. You lose a lot of friends that way, but there are always other friends to find. These are the people attracted to public office now. People who grow up have little use for Washington.
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Posted by: jimswanson on Feb 13, 2009 8:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"The Bush League of Nations"
www.bushleagueofnations.com [for FREE download of entire $25.95 book]
Timothy Geithner and “Government Goldman Sachs"—I fear that a skulk of fox is still in charge of the chicken coop.
We recently poured several hundred billion dollars of taxpayer money into the cesspool known as America’s financial system.
What did we get in return? No stimulus. No accounting. Nothing.
We are truly nuts.
But I see an instructive parallel here.
Dumping that money into that Fat Cat cesspool was like Bush and the GOP giving hundreds of billions of dollars in tax breaks to the Super Rich.
In both cases, we got nothing in return. No stimulus. No accounting. Nothing.
Nothing, that is, other than a multitude of moral and financial deficits.
Welcome to the GOP Great Depression II.
We are truly out of our gourds.
James A. Swanson, Los Altos, CA
"The Bush League of Nations"
www.bushleagueofnations.com [for FREE download of entire $25.95 book]
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» RE: What GOP?
Posted by: oregoncharles
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Posted by: sgparry on Feb 13, 2009 9:32 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In a technological society, where "technique" become supreme, "means" tend to become more important than "ends." The technique by which things are done get more attention than the reason we are doing something or the goal we seek. We all know that tecnology is very seductive, we want the latest gadget, we hope that nuclear power or new medicines will solve our problems.
Two: In a technological society, secondary thinking becomes more important than primary thinking. How we do somethng becomes more important than why we are doing it. This gives primacy to people like Geitner, who have master the "techniques" of our arcane finance system. It also allows them to create a finance system that only they can understand, creating the technological priesthood, we call "the best and the brightest."
So Obama went to the Federal Reserve, the high temple of the financial pristhood to find an oracle. And what we see is the Geithner protecting that priesthood.
Early on little Tim learned how to read the "Jesuits" in the classroom, and give them what they want. And in our technolgical society that meant math and science. He not only knew the answers he knew how to "read" the teacher and knew what the questions were going to be on the test. The priesthood channeled him away from the soft liberal arts into the left-brain areas of math and science. Developing perspective and creative thinking were not rewarded.
Obama came of age in this culture. It is no suprise that he would turn to the financial wonks for their techniqual agility rather than their judgement, which has been fluid.
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Posted by: Jersey Devil on Feb 13, 2009 9:57 AM
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» RE: The Peter Principal
Posted by: sawdust
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Posted by: sawdust on Feb 13, 2009 10:12 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And "saviours" who arrive amid great fanfare and with a flowered resume usually are not.
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Posted by: sawdust on Feb 13, 2009 10:17 AM
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Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield on Feb 13, 2009 10:50 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: oregoncharles on Feb 13, 2009 11:42 AM
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Posted by: larryltm on Feb 13, 2009 2:51 PM
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reality once they have risen to the top of the governing heap? . . ."
I'm surprised to hear you have to ask this question. I don't know for sure, but I have to believe Geithner, Obama, and the rest of the banking crew are all members of the CFR. As such they are first aligned with the interests of their kinsmen, and rarely if ever with the rest of us. I came out of the corporate world and know very well how the people at the top get there. Mastery of the barracuda tactics required to move ahead is essential. Knowledge of the business is secondary and with many of these barracudas it isn't even a consideration. Hence many of those that rise to the top are clueless about what makes their operations run. Usually this leads to their downfall. What we've seen in the financial world is exactly that with enough time to destroy, not only individual companies, but an entire system as well. Some people who are essential to solving corporate crippling problems are tolerated up to a point. Once their usefulness to the barracudas wanes so do their positions if not their jobs. This is the way it is in most corporate hierarchies and will probably always be so. What we don't need at the top of the barracuda pyramid is a secret society like the CFR into which these less than honorable or knowledgeable specimens can join with others like themselves and get to run the government. There can be no real representative government until we get rid of the hold that the secret societies have on public office.
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Posted by: wormfarmer on Feb 13, 2009 6:37 PM
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A democracy is a government by, for, and of THE PEOPLE. Some of our founding fathers were of the mind that the masses were not intelligent enough to govern themselves. Lets prove that assumption false.
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Posted by: yellow on Feb 15, 2009 2:35 PM
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As long as the conspiracy mongering morons like most Alterneters believe that capitalism is OK except for corruption or da Jooooz there will be no change. Of course, right wing populism doesn't help either.
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Posted by: reelman on Feb 19, 2009 11:04 AM
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More Than 500 Protest Obama’s Arrival In Mesa, Arizona. 2.18.2009
The protestors, about 500 to 600 strong and growing, began arriving as ticket-holders walked in. . . . They held their signs up high: “Don’t tread on me,” “Spend all you want, I’ll pick up the tab,” “I’ll keep my freedom! You keep the change!” “Free fertility drugs now.” And “B.O. smells and so does Socialism.”
CRAWFISH NOTE: Radical socialists do what radical socialists do…they cannot manage a hot dog stand. This angry clueless man is a victim-worshiper bent on punishing higher achievers and buying the votes of the low achievers. Less than 30 days and some voters are already realizing this man is a radical socialist (as his record and life history show)…a trillion more of debt for the voters too…no surprise here. The lib-media will keep changing his diapers. We warned voters for six months. Enjoy the democrat socialism, suckers.
http://conservablogs.com/theconservativecrawfish/
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