picked the picture for the article is objectifying women. Maybe that's a good place to start...

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Come on people, everyone objectifies (that is 'sizes up') other people, in a bunch of different ways. Men are MALES, they by design want to have sex with beautiful young women.

Problem is men and women have no role models nowadays we're "on our own", I Zan sums it up nicely in his video of "latchkey" / playstation / xbox kids. Get to the part where he talks about "We're the first generation of uninstructed men..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esYP0CFwTTs

Our biological purpose on earth is to eat, have sex, and pro-create, since we've gained a big head we've been able to subdue our impulses to an extent... but I bet if you talked about how wonderful it is to go without sex for life, they'd think you not quite human if not a bit ill.

People are naturally attracted to one another, but we are not sexually, emotionally and culturally mature in north america. We had a weird breed of traditional/christian values mixed in with rebellious hedonism, and the fact is with the toxic culture and unrealistic images and expectations about what one can achieve in life spewing from the media... women and men are lost generally, many are simply extremely immature, as they get older, some men and women mature, others don't... and they see how stupid and immature they were as they reflect on their teens and twenties and maybe even 30's.

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We can all wear burkas and be done with this controversy once and for all.

...Or just wait until entropy turns all women into sluts and modesty becomes obsolete.

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Puh-leeze, spare me the hypocrisy, AlterNet. High-minded pontification paid for with adjoining advertising for "Asian Girls for Love & Marriage", giving each of the pictures, ages (all under 30) and weight!! Nauseating holier-than-thou BS, shown for what you really are.

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Ok, fair enough, women don't like to be objectified and reduced to nothing more than a life support system for a rack. What earth-shattering news, way to go you deep digging editors. But guess what, I LOVE BOOBS! And I will not be cowed into apologizing for that by some shrill band of book-learned faux-feminists. BOOBS ROCK! and part of the appeal of it is I don't know why! I can just give myself over to pure animal lust and get out of my busy clenched liberal mindset and just experience some real visceral life. If you think the only beauty that comes from boobs is their ability to nurse a child, then you're pathetic.

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It perhaps might be helpful to distinguish more clearly as to the uses of the word 'object' and 'objectify'.

One individual can be the Object of another individual's desire.

One individual can conceive of another individual as if they were an Object.


There is a difference.

And then there's the phenomenon of synechdoche, part-for-whole and whole-for-part. Especially in as strongly imaginative and creative a society as ours, this can be immensely damaging and put a big, big brake on the development of our social relations. Certain sectors among us know this well; and they see no reason at all to discourage it. Lest we forget: the doctrines of Utilitarianism and Utility are particularly popular and well diffused. There's a certain Utility in obsessing about breasts, for instance. With just a bit of casuistry, one can maneuver this obsession into conforming to 'the greater good', no?

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really, no really this is how guys grow up all confused lacking backbone and I'm not talking in the bed room but in real life. These same guys whom would walk pass a women getting raped than step in and kick some ass (don't even wait to find a pay phone... wait... did I say pay phone... I know there is a iphone 911 ap) either way not every man is drooling over the chick at the admissions counter with the high heals and DD's then again she is most likely to have a date come Friday night but if she is bright as a bag of pop rocks in a can of Pepsi I doubt whats on her chest is going to make up for the lack of depth in her mind.

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I've often wondered about this breast fetish myself, and I'm an ordinary heterosexual male. I've always rather pitied women who are genetically prone to huge breasts, and contemptuous of those who do it to themselves.

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Men, by nature, are attracted to physical beauty. You don't have to have an education in sociology or psychology to know that.

I tend to be nauseated by the Stuart Smalley-types of guys who enjoy carrying on about how they've supposedly overcome the urge to look upon women sexually and how that makes them paragons of feminism.

It may come as a surprise to some people, but there are women who enjoy expressing themselves as sexual beings with their appearance. And they're not all advertising industry dupes.

That being said, it is a shame that men behave so boorishly towards women, especially young women. Some of the accounts Samara Ginsberg wrote about were just plain bizarre, such as the "Mammoth Melons Award."

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I'm sorry...you want me to feel bad that I find large breats sexy?

Well forget that. Women spend ridiculous amounts of time discussing - and sharing deeply personal details from their male sex partners - the male sexual organ. Size, shape, hardness, longevity. I mean ther just no end to it -- I sometimes get pissed off when I discover just how much women will tell complete strangers about me and what I do in bed. Yeag women gossip and that's fine just don't think you are infallible on these matters, because you are not.

Of course, getting or not getting a job based on bra size is insane, but just so you know, it goes both ways -- I should know, I'm well endowed.

You want the beauty ideals to change? Call Cosmo...

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It has nothing to do with breasts.

Attractive women are attractive; hence the term "attractive". That's the biological and evolutionary reality. Men are not monsters for noticing, regardless of how hard the feminists lobby to make noticing a crime.

The real issue from the beginning ought to have been bullying and abuse in school, the workplace, or any other environment, which most of us can relate to, regardless of breast size. Not wanting to be fondled, assaulted, or verbally-abused in the hallway or anywhere is a legitimate gripe. But implying that having big boobs is worse than being fat or wearing thick glasses doesn't help your case.

That seems to be the way things work in politics and everywhere else. Instead of fighting for broader things like justice for all, all of these so-called minority groups put things in terms of their own selfish interests, and try to one-up each other with their lists of hard luck stories...So I guess now they'll be adding National Large Breasted Women's Anti-defamation League (NLBWADL) to the list of special groups, if they haven't already.

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I grew up in France where I spent the first 28 years of my life.
From age 3 I was able to see topless women on beaches every summer. My German and Dutch friends I was seeing each summer either in Southern France or Spain grew up exactly like me. We saw women windsurfing or playing volley ball naked and soon you don't see breasts anymore.

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BEAUTY. There. I said it. Men are scared of it and other women resent it. Beauty has become a dirty word in feminism, which is perhaps the reason that too many purported feminists I know ditch their ideology when the opportunity to put down a sexually attractive woman presents itself.

Sounds like a lot of people on this site don't believe in Darwin--in Natural Selection. It's really that simple, isn't it? Humans have selected for large breasts. Get over it, boys and girls.

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Although I'm a man, I can sympathize with the feelings expressed in this article. However, women like the writer inadvertantly compound the problem by continuing to refer to their breasts as "boobs." A boob, according to my dictionary, is "a stupid, awkward person; a simpleton; a boor." By continuing to use this degrading term when referring to a part of their body of which they should be proud, they only compound the problem. No wonder women feel embarrassment and even shame about their breasts if they think of them as "boobs." How can anyone feel pride in their person if they think of a lovely part of their anatomy as "boobs"? -- bandz

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.. for the same reason women flaunt it!

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about objectifying people based on their looks, is that it becomes hard for them to define themselves in terms of anything else. Think about it. If from childhood on you had gotten strokes for being pretty, or handsome, and negative reactions when you tried to cover up your prettinessw or handsomness, how easy would it have been for you to reject objectification. In our society, beauty can be a real curse.

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Noticing a woman's figure or appeal is as old as sex, but the unhealthy obsession with Mammon dates back only to the advent of artificial nipples and bottled milk. When women started feeding their babies via Playtex they denied the infants, boys and girls, an essential maternal bond that has prompted an evolution of how we as a society percieve breasts. If they are no longer matter-of-factly functional, they become adornment, a wardrobe accessory. Of course American capitalism has made the most of the shift, at first perhaps unwittingly but now purposely.

Stopping the artifial feeding of our babies would be a good place to start turning our society around. Breastfeeding is free and natural and would put breasts back in perspective. Take away the mystery and put back the wonder.

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Isn't more problems in this world then men staring at women's breasts???

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I do sincerely sympathize with the problems the author has experienced. She has been through hell.

I would suggest, however, that she is not healed and should seek therapy. Breasts are indeed nature and she needs to get over it. I have seen women stare at my package, and I did not feel objectified.

I considered it part of the mating/dating and pairing dance that results in the continuation of the specie(s). It is normal for men to look at breasts; it is normal for woman to steal a peek at a package. Sex is not something despicable....except when things go wrong. They do.

But that should not mean that the rest of us, the vast majority of men and women, should walk though life with downcast eyes like monks and nuns of old.

Grow up for heavens sake - there is a vast difference between normal sexuality, and the kind of experience these woman have sadly had. A little "reframing" with a competent therapist is clearly in order for these woman. Unfortunately, I don't think therapy would have any positive effect on the type of men they describe - with them it's not about sex - it's about power - and that is objectification.

But in the natural mating dance of human beings, a look should not hurt. It should be seen as positive. Not to worry, the day will come, with age, when the looks (both ways) come to an end. In some cases that will be considered natural, and in other require additional therapy.

Sex, mating, dating and pairing (marriage if you like) is normal - get used to it. Lighten up. Live - you'll be old and or dead soon enough.

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I love breasts. I have no idea why. Honestly. What is so attractive about a woman's form? The curves, as her waist descends, swells to encompass her hips. The curve of her low back, her buttocks risings. The swell of her breasts, Even the softness of her face, the gentle sounds of her voice, that communicates so much.

I have puzzled over this for years: Why are women so darn beautiful? I might not be horny, at all, not even in the least, but... she walks by, a look, thrown over a shoulder, the meeting of eyes, a small smile, the sway of those hips, then I notice! The swell of a bosum, concealed, the curve of a hip, a chin, her eyes, her lips.

I can feel her skin, smell her hair, feel her warm breath, her body, moving under mine. Long before any of that, I am already hooked, even if I do not act, my body responds, my pulse quickens, I awake. I am reborn.

Why, oh why?

My woman showers, a smile is upon my own lips. It is enough. Why question paradise. It is enough.

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I think I'll probably get reamed for this, but...why the hell didn't anyone mention the fact that some women kinda...umm...here it comes...bring it one themselves. (Please don't go overboard, and think I'm saying women bring things like sexual assault and harrassment on themselves; I'm simply talking about the looks you may get, the whistles, little things like that.)

You know guys love boobs, you know they're gonna look, yet you still wear tops that plunge to your belly-button, and then blame everyone else? Obviously, I'm not saying this is all women, but when I walk around a public place, I see way more flesh (male and female) than is necessary, and I have to wonder about the logic of articles like this, blaming it on the men solely. its just not fair, and its unrealistic.

I'm a woman, I have big boobs, a little waist, and hips, and you know, I don't get gawked at...often. I believe its because of the way I dress. I don't dress frumpy, I accentuate my figure, but I don't wear low cut tops, and I don't wear teeny mini-skirts. I basically just don't wear clothes that are going to attract the wrong kind of attention, while still dressing to look and feel beautiful and feminine.

So, while men do need to adjust their attitudes, there's no question about that, I think some of the responsibility should be on the rest of us, as a society and a gender, to stop dangling the bait in front of the fish, and then getting pissed when it bites.

I'm just sayin'...go ahead, lay it one me.

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Te feminist rant against men's appreciation of the female form is as insane as the objectification of women by men and the culture at large. Otherwise the problem is not the breasts or men's appreciation of them- it's viewing women a objects of desire/lust rather than as people. This could be done by a Gay or Bisexual woman as easily as by a man, so would not credit it to sexism.

As was noted elsewhere, many women date their way into a higher socioeconomic class. This is just as insane, insensitive and indefensible.

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Because ever since the advent of Playboy and its ilk, Americans have been bombarded with the notion that the only attractive breast is a large one, and the only women that are worth having sex with are the large-breasted ones.

Then, advertising agents, looking for the easy-sell campaign have used women with large breasts to sell EVERYTHING.

And now with the advent of Internet porn, you can soak yourself in sexual imagery 24/7.

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I read through the comments and most of them are just plain disgusting while what little reasonable comments there were got a "1" rating or even removed altogether. I find it odd that Alternet complains about censorship and yet does its own. Truly pathetic !

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Hi-
It sounds like the original article was about men staring at women's breasts-

As an aside that's tangently related, I'm a straight woman, and have found myself accidently staring at breasts for a very different reason. I'm a 40 year old, back in school with college kids, and the reason I'm staring is that these women who are 20 years younger than me have, in general, larger breasts than my generation did at their age. I'm currently assuming it's all the hormones in our food (based on very limited reading). When I stare it's not out of desire, but out of puzzlement.

Not the main focus of the article, and probably not the main reason most men stare at women's breasts, but some guys my age and older may have similar puzzlement.

Michele

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I think the whole subject is blown up out of all proportion

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how much further down the tubes this economy would go if men stopped liking or even noticing breasts?

There would be no market for all of the businesses like Victoria's Secret, Venus, Frederick's of Hollywood, etc...

Plastic surgeons from coast to coast would be broke and destitute in no time, all sales of any type of low cut or tight tops would cease and life would be horrible.

I love breasts and I always have. I always will. There's no therapy or counseling or anything that will make me change my mind and I will never be ashamed of it. Small waist and big breasts? Bring it on. That's what I like.

P.S. If men could have an augmentation surgery that would be as routine as breast augmentation, how many women would be pushing their husbands to have the procedure? Don't pretend you don't know the answer is 'a lot'.

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Aren't women equal part in all this breast stuff? Do women have a right to complain of men looking at their breasts when they have none, but they buy a bra that pushes every ounce of chest skin into any kind of "cleavage" that says, "Hey, look at this!"

Really, look at the bra section at any store – my God, it looks like a prosthetics supply – anything to make a woman who has any breasts seem at least a couple cups larger, and cleavage at any cost.

Real men are attracted to real breasts, and real, grown up women don't spill them out with stuffed and wired paraphernalia that shouts, "Hey, men. These are TITS!" but if I catch you looking at them you're
"Objectifying" me! Whatever that means.

It's time WOMEN got over THEIR breast fetish.

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The way Samsara was treated is disturbing, of course. It's idiotic to equate involuntary physical appearance with character traits; it's also idiotic to harass people because of it. It isn't shocking that idiots in passing cars would act that way, or that middle school boys would be juvenile and overly aggressive (notoriously, that's how they act when they LIKE you). But when TEACHERS behave in the same juvenile, irresponsible way, something is really wrong. Her parents should have sued the school (assuming she told them). And in the US, she'd have a good lawsuit against that office, too. It should also be said that Anglo-Saxons have an unhealthy obsession with breasts: a point several other commenters addressed. It might have something to do with covering them up all the time, as someone else suggested.

But just as disturbing is a strong tendency, not in Samsara's article (except the title) but in many comments, to deny our animal nature. Briefly: we aren't going to "get over" "boobs" because they're a key sexual signal. Furthermore, on a primitive level of the brain, a larger object (to a point) is a stronger signal. In effect, and entirely without intent, she's shouting. People will "hear" that, and respond. THEY CAN'T HELP IT.

They CAN help the way they respond. There is basic courtesy, and there is sympathy for a young person struggling with big changes in her body and her life. If we don't respect those, then our own character needs some serious work.

I think it would help if we could acknowledge our animal natures and celebrate the "mating dance" we're stuck with. I think it would have helped Samsara to be told that the boys just aren't coping well with their own feelings because they have a lot of growing up to do, just as it would have helped to be defended from them. She would have been a lot less alienated from her own body if everyone had been matter-of-fact about it, and about others' reactions to it.

And it would help all of us to have a realistic conception of what those courtesies should be. One reason I say that is that if I encounter a woman who looks like that, I'll have a struggle to get my eyes off her chest. I try to follow the rule that people don't mind an admiring glance; they do mind if you get in their face about it - at least unless the mating dance is proceeding past the first steps. And staring is getting in their face.

On the same theme, I was disturbed by the negative response when one commenter compared beautiful women (I would insist on "people" - this applies to both sexes) with trees or flowers. WE ARE NATURAL OBJECTS. We need desperately to think of ourselves that way, to identify with the rest of life.

And again, we're going to respond to each other as animals, whether it's politically correct or not. We need healthy ways to deal with our reality, and denial isn't one of them.

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It isn't just breasts, it also is a matter of a woman's hips.

Any man who does not take into account a prospective mate's hips and breasts is risking crushing their offspring's cranium at birth or starving it afterwards.

This is probably genetically recessive - men who are oblivious to hips and breasts adequate to their function long ago vanished into the Darwinian sands.

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Now that aids has been released and spread around the world by the hideous experiments done on prisoners by Mengele workers at U.S. Army Ft, Detrick Maryland,the breakthrough 60's sexual openness experience has been replaced by the traditional porn, virtual sex,and rape . So repressive is fundamentalism in the world that all sexual behaviors have in their complexity taken on every aspect of perversion which however is totally and historically the dominant institutional way of crushing individuals. There is no sex education which remotely covers the subject. If boys and girls in an educational setting, led by a man and woman teacher, had the weekly opportunity to talk to each other publicly about every aspect of their sexual curiosity, they could dispell their nervousness and their myths and would then be able to have respectful adult sexual behaviors that would completely soften the approach of the genders. The problem is collective and the problem is political and the problem is that shame and embarassment and guilt are used to govern the people. Pent up, diverted, distorted, perverted sexual expression has nothing to do with heterosexual exchange that is mutually respectful and leads to simultaneous orgasm, the greatest human experience somehow still extant as a human possibility. The U.S. is ruled by beasts who induce beastly behavior. I love breasts as well as all the rest of the parts of a woman. As a 67 year old man I know without the sexual love of my wife, life would not be worth living. Her breasts play an enormous role in foreplay by her decision. Each couple must work out their own pattern of mutually acceptable arousal. If children are allowed age group appropriate sexual play, and heterosexual feelings are not crushed, they grow up to be gentle hippies who know--not believe--what is necessary for a healthy, creative, independent, satisfying life. So the social collective results of ignorance, and marriage and sexual behaviors that repress sexual joy, lead to, among other things, terrible selfconsciousness about breasts.The fact is women have no equality and the problem of women's resistance to male domination is a definite aversion to sex since they aren't allowed birth control and are supposed to submit but do so reluctantly leading to unwanted preganancies and atrophied nurturing of children and a dichotomous attitude toward their own breasts as either source of milk or the deranged attractants to predatory quaisnecessary men. You are ruled by your fears, inside and out. Inexperience and psyops maintain fear.Sexual molestation of children is the result of the universal hideous perversion of adult sexual impulses toward each other.

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C cup and higher breasts are very beautiful to look at. They're so chummy and warm and feminine. And they especially look wonderful when they bounce up and down while trotting down a sidewalk. And note that I said "look" and not 'stare'. Staring is impolite and I know that makes women feel uncomfortable.

Back when Sergio Valente designer jeans were all the rage, the design seemed to enhance the crotch part and I noted that women I pass by were looking down there. even that kinda made me a bit uncomfortable, but just a little bit!

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For centuries MEN have been obsessed with breasts. Even in days of long skirts, bosoms were always prominent. Now there is "soft" porn exposure. Those harmed most by this exposure are the young teen aged girls going through a period of insecurity and acceptance-are they attractive to boys?
The dominating force establishing the "requirements" is COMMERCIAL TV. It is responsible for the "boobs, buts and belly button but NO BRAINS",fetish .It also promotes sexual exploitation-falling in bed with any tom, dick or--, getting pregnant, single moms and NO DADS ANYWHERE. IS THIS STILL A MAN'S ONLY WORLD?

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Not all men are enamored with big breasts-but I do find those that are talk about it more. But let's be fair. How many women have issues with men's height? I think you could easily find most women would never consider a man shorter than themselves and most have a prediliction for tall men. It doesn't get the same airplay, since visual depictions of women in publications is much more prevalent. But is it fundamentally any different?

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Come on, get real. How about some interesting news.

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I was mildly curious about what sort of comments I'd find here...

but I knew the nice image posted on the main page would go away when I clicked on the article title link...

so it took me a while to get here.



This stuff is mostly fairly natural. It's really stupid to try to condemn that aspect of it. What we need to do is to try not to be assholes about our objectification.

If you were gifted with a beautiful body... or, even better, if you worked hard to develop your body... of course others are going to look at you (really, at your body... they can't know you just by looking at you... what they see at first is your body) admiringly. Deal with it.

I've been relatively lazy about staying in shape. I get some looks, but not too many.

What really matters is how we let such things affect our actions and decisions and policies, etc... where the rubber hits the road.

A person's body is not all there is to him or her.

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For instance, any list of famous (or infamous, if you prefer) boobs will include Pauly "The Wiez" Shore; Gerald Ford; Ronald Reagan; Nancy Reagan (does Nancy Reagan have breasts?); Joe Walsh; John Ashcroft; and, of course, Sarah Palin.

Breasts, on the other hand (pun intended), bear no such ill distinction (which includes a boob like Sarah Palin--think about that one set theorists :P). In fact, I've rarely met a breast I didn't immediately like (it's true).

And now, on to one of life's deepest mysteries.

Have you ever noticed that no matter how many women you meet, if you count their breasts, the number you arrive at is always even?

Hmmmmm.....someone should write a doctoral dissertation on that subject...

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if guys look or not... but can't find a decent bra without underwires that fits!!! no fakes for me, never considered them even if a plastic surgeon I once consulted on about a surgical leg scar to have revisioned... he suggested that I might be more 'balanced' if I got implants and blew off the surgical scar... found another plastic surgeon...

women come in all shapes and sizes including flat chested... get over it... hubby doesn't seem to mind, especially now that we are getting older... no boob sag!!!

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What's the big deal? (pun intended) This country has to get out of its unhealthy and adolescent attitude towards sex. Men are naturally wired to be attracted to women with the best child bearing attributes. Breasts, hips, and legs are nature's way of guaranteeing that the race continues and survives with the fittest. Sorry girls. There is nothing wrong with a man looking at you, and it would be abnormal if he didn't. So take it as a compliment rather than a peeping perversion.

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...the harm women suffer because they are objectified in a specific way. This claim is much different that claiming that finding a woman's breasts attractive is wrong per se.

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I think any woman/girl that wears skin-tight blouses or sweaters, with a plunging neckline and a push-up bra has no standing to complain about staring. Look at me, No don't look - mixed signal passive aggressive BS. Anything that goes beyond looking is not OK.

I had to stop wearing my Spandex codpiece because I just couldn't take all the attention.

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We're obsessed with breasts because they're sex traits. Women have 'em and they directly reflect fertility- you don't get 'em until you're ovulating, and as you age they sag and become less appealing. So they're a sex sign. And since there's no point in evolution making men say "Aha, this woman is of reproductive age, I improve my chances of reproduction by mating with her," the drive is just "yay boobs".

What a retarded thing to even ask, really. Might as well ask next "Why are we obsessed with healthy skin?" or "Why do men like slim figures?" or "Why are high heels appealing?" The answer is "sex". Sorry if that's offensive to you, but sex was going on for a billion years before this article and it will continue afterwards.

The whole thing is like some nineteenth-century treatise on another culture. Where dudes sit around with pipes and say "What flaw in The Negro's character causes him to be so fixated upon rebellion?" Or "Why are women so prone to Hysterical emotion?"
It's a bunch of half-smart types sitting around in a group, looking at some out-group and writing a narrative that pathologizes some behavior of that outgroup which they do not like, disregarding the real and obvious reasons for said behavior in favor of one which the half-smarties find most emotionally satisfying. Intellectual masturbation. Bollocks.

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why does Alternet continue to post obsessive articles about them?

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but what a staircase.

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I think the Western obsession with breasts is because we -don't- get our fair share of mama-milk as babies, instead we get a cold hard bottle shoved in our faces. Since we never got it when we were supposed to get it, we are still fascinated with breasts.

I once knew and loved a man from a small third world country, he remarked, "American men are crazy, they want a woman's breasts. They don't understand, that belongs to the baby." I replied, "that's because they got bottles when they were babies. and they still feel cheated."

He looked surprised -- was bottle feeding really that prevalant in the USA? I replied, yes, about nine out of ten people never got to feed from their mother's breasts, they got hard cold bottles stuck in their faces instead. He was surprised at this, because in his country it is a regular daily sight to see a woman discretely nursing a child in public (hidden perhaps by a shawl or loose shirt), and no one thinks anything of it. In a third world country, with limited funds and access to refrigeration, this would be the usual practice, so, to my friend, the American fixation on breasts seems to be a fetish of sorts, a sexual attachment to something that is not inherently sexual. But to Americans and others in the West, who got fed from the bottle as babies and perhaps still feel cheated on some level, the breast is forbiddden, hidden, and sexualized.

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So hate me. Breasts are beautiful and hidden from view. We only get glimpses (carefully stage-managed, often), and we're fascinated. Fact.

If they were out in full view they would become passe, ladies would get cold, and some of them would seriously miss the attention they used to get.

And lastly: This is really not important. Primates will always look at fellow primates of the gender they are sexually attracted to. Nothing wrong with it, and no big deal.

BTW (hate me some more): A fair part of Ginsburg's post said to me (TO ME - I didn't say to you) "I'm sexy, stop looking at me - and feel sorry for me! And did I mention? I'm very sexy".

Very last: The burka suggestion was exactly wrong. That'll only cause increased fascination.

OK, last of all: Confident, independent ladies would flash us when we stare, and think nothing of it.

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"Biology" seems to be the final and ultimate argument, not surprisingly for all the people, who do look, stare, gaze, leer and peek. The thing is that really, it is not. With thousands of years of culture built on top of human "biology", the deeply rooted, but just as deeply hidden, animalistic drives are, at best, a tertiary issue.

To illustrate -- our bodies have to expel waste, ie. take a shit. The majority of people will not however, just throw their pants down and crap in the middle of the street, because they happen to feel the need to. They would rather wait and look for a toilet, because that is the cultural norm. Have they conquered biology? No. Have they controlled the drive, at least to a degree? Yes.
And a compulsion to take a shit is undeniably stronger than the compulsion to fuck, and by extension, as some of you people suggest, look at other humans' "sex markers", be it breasts, be it crotches.

So can we, please, stop justifying everything we do wrong with our alleged helplessness towards this grand "biology"?

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All very fascinating, doubly interesting since I just finished reading a novel, Nine Kinds of Naked, that dealt with these same issues. One of the main characters is a large-breasted woman, and the reader is given a compelling view into her sexuality and subjectivity. Unbelievably, it's written by a man. Check it out here; I highly recommend it!

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Guys' fascination with boobs? It's called infantilism, lack of maturity, escapism, the need and desire to return to baby-stage and be held and nursed and feel safe from all those nasty items mature people call responsibility, living in the real world, and acting all adult and stuff.

And the bigger the boob, well, the "bigger the boob" so to speak. Large breasts just enhance the self-visualization that Joe the Schmoe is smaller (baby-like) in comparision. It's not rocket science here, folks, just simple psychological transference.

As for objectification, we all do it, to a greater or lesser degree (Yeah, I know, Captain Obvious reporting here). But people with more experience, maturity, etc. tend to objectify events not just physical attributes they "think" are indicative. The over-simplified "sex objects" remind me of the lurid pulp novel covers back in the '60s or the just-as-lurid romance paperback covers of today. So when women stop imitating simple-minded men's responses by checking out guys' cute butts or six-pack abs, will men stop checking out women's breasts? Highly doubtful. Too ingrained in the psyche, perhaps. Solution? Introspection and a willful effort to change. Like that's going to happen anytime soon, but good luck with that, eh?

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I noted when looking at the recent "celebrities" attending award shows that most of the women were well endowed (naturally or with the help of surgery) and all seemed intent on shwoing everything but the nipple. Now why the nipple is the "forbidden fruit" I don't know--but here it is: we are a nation of voyeurs--people who get sexual thrills from looking. Our news media and publicity agents see that we are bombarded with pictures of young nubile women and their mammaries.

As I used to tell my son when he was teen-aged-"if you've seen two you've seen them all." Big, small, or medium, what does it matter. They are secondary sexual characteristics, like whiskers on men. Why do men grow beards and mustaches?? Every normal man has this capacity; every normalwoman has breasts. There they are, you guys--there they will be. So what?

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continue to frame the argument. I believe that equality for women is the key ingredient missing from the debate. If women were on an equal footing then the privileges men have wouldn't be invisible to them. Men don't have women razzing and belittling their bodies. Men don't have terms applied to them like whore,slut,bitch,golddigger,
etc. There lies the invisibility of male privilege.
The money being made from this privilege continues
the attitudes and accepted behavior towards women.

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