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Plunder and Blunder; How the 'Financial Experts' Keep Screwing You

By Dean Baker, PoliPoint Press. Posted February 7, 2009.


Anyone with common sense, a grasp of simple arithmetic and a desire to go against the consensus should have seen the financial crisis coming.
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Editor's Note: The following is an excerpt from Plunder and Blunder: The Rise and Fall of the Bubble Economy by Dean Baker, published by PoliPoint Press, 2009.

The stock market and housing bubbles were the central features of the U.S. economy over the last 15 years. The stock bubble propelled the strongest period of economic growth since the late 1960s. The housing bubble lifted the economy from the wreckage of the stock bubble and sustained a modest recovery, at least through 2007. However, financial bubbles by definition aren't sustainable, and when they collapse, they cause enormous social and economic damage.

The economy had no problem with financial bubbles during its period of strongest and most evenly shared growth, the years from 1945 to 1973. It only became susceptible to bubbles after the pattern of growth had broken down  -- when most workers no longer shared in the benefits of productivity growth, and businesses no longer routinely invested to meet increased demand based on growing consumption. We don't have enough evidence to say that bubbles are a direct outgrowth of inequality, but, again, we do know that bubbles weren't a problem when income was more evenly distributed.

The bubbles were allowed to grow only because the people in a position to restrain them failed in their duties. The leading villain in this story is Alan Greenspan. Greenspan mastered the art of currying the favor of the rich and powerful and held top economic positions under five presidents of both political parties. He also managed to gain a near cult-like following among the media. As a result, most of the public is largely unaware of how disastrous the Fed's policies under his tenure were for the economy and the country.

Most of the economics profession went along for the ride, somehow managing to miss a $10 trillion stock bubble in the 1990s and an $8 trillion housing bubble in the current decade. If leading economists had recognized these bubbles and expressed concern about the inherent risks, they could have alerted the public and forced a serious policy debate on the problem. Instead, the leading voices in the profession joined the chorus of Greenspan sycophants, honoring him as potentially the greatest central banker of all time.

The financial industry proved to be more incompetent and corrupt than its worst critics could have imagined. Did people who manage multi-billion dollar portfolios in the late 1990s really believe that price-to-earnings ratios would continue rising, even when they already exceeded 30 to 1? Or did these highly paid fund managers believe that PE ratios no longer mattered  -- as though people bought up shares of stock because the stock certificates were pretty?

It's hard to understand how anyone who managed money for a living could have justified keeping a substantial portion of their funds in the ridiculously overvalued markets of 1999 and 2000. You could play the bubble, riding the wave up and dumping stock before the crash. But a buy-and-hold strategy in 1999 and 2000 was a guaranteed loser. In the late 1990s, Warren Buffet famously commented that he didn't understand the Internet economy, and thus he pulled much of his portfolio out of the market. Buffet understood the Internet economy very well. He recognized a hugely overvalued stock market that was certain to crash. Why didn't fund managers?

The financial industry's conduct in the housing bubble was even worse. House prices had sharply diverged from a 100-year trend without any explanation. Furthermore, vacancy rates were at record highs and getting higher. In introductory economics, we teach students about supply and demand. If the excess supply keeps growing, what will happen to the price? Furthermore, inflation-adjusted rents weren't rising through most of the period of the housing bubble. There will always be a rough balance between sales price and rent. When sales prices diverge sharply from rents, some owners become renters, reducing the demand for housing. Similarly, some owners of rental units convert them to ownership units, increasing the supply of housing.

Decreased demand and increased supply lowers the price; what part of that reality did the highly compensated analysts fail to understand? How could the CEOs of the country's two huge mortgage giants, Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, have been surprised by the housing bubble? The Wall Street wizards at Merrill Lynch, Citigroup, Bear Stearns, and elsewhere were probably even worse. Did they really have no idea that the bubble would burst and that a large amount of mortgage debt, especially subprime mortgage debt, would become nearly worthless? Did they think that this junk could be made to disappear through complex derivative instruments?


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Dean Baker is co-director of the Center for Economic and Policy Research.

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Nationalize the Fed ... for starters
Posted by: mmckinl on Feb 7, 2009 12:59 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Federal Reserve is a privately owned and operated corporation whose shareholders are the banks they are supposed to regulate. As any corporation it is their duty, under law, to put their shareholders first and foremost in front of and beyond everyone else, so we tax payers guarantee the risk but the banks get all of the rewards of currency and credit creation.

We must nationalize the Fed to get fair representation and the benefit of the right to control the creation of currency and credit that our founding fathers bequeathed us.

Leaving the regulation of the banks and the financial system to the bankers will destroy what little is left of our economy. Their new "Bad Bank" idea is another rip off of the American tax payer. We shall soon see the "real" Obama ...

Will a public central bank be subject to problems? Of course, but shouldn't we the public who underwrite money with our labor and shoulder the burden of risk with our taxes be entitled to the profit of the creation of currency and credit as well as the losses?

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» RE: Woops! Posted by: gazooks
» Educating people Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: discounting people Posted by: gazooks
» RE: Let's be political about this... Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: The Record Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Getting tired, Beck? Posted by: oregoncharles
Some at Fannie and Freddie did know
Posted by: Bic Pentameter on Feb 7, 2009 1:07 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Check out the following article from Vanity Fair:

article

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» RE: Some at Fannie and Freddie did know Posted by: racetoinfinity
Mobius
Posted by: Revolutionary (Direct) Democracy on Feb 7, 2009 1:17 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The part that should be keeping progressives awake at night is that we're hearing a whole new regime repeating the same shit that we heard from Bush/Cheney.


FREE AMERICA

REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY

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» Glass Full or Glass Empty? Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
» RE: Mobius Posted by: underledge
The heart of the matter
Posted by: ender on Feb 7, 2009 1:37 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"The secret of these two bubbles is that there is no secret. Anyone with common sense, a grasp of simple arithmetic, and a willingness to stand up against the consensus could have figured out the basic story. The details of the accounting scandals in the stock bubble and the convoluted financing stories in the housing bubble required some serious investigative work, but the bubbles themselves were there in plain sight for all to see."


Although the bulk of propaganda (be it for religious, political or consumption purposes) is based on the ability of people en masse to delude themselves against obvious truth, to witness it in action still amazes me.

When it comes to the world's economy, and that ability is coupled with a 30-second attention span, my amazement turns to fear.

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Nifty article
Posted by: and_abottleofrum on Feb 7, 2009 1:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We don't have enough evidence to say that bubbles are a direct outgrowth of inequality, but, again, we do know that bubbles weren't a problem when income was more evenly distributed.

Such bubbles are much more likely when the class divide is stronger, and the growth and bursting of these bubbles seems to exacerbate class disparities.

Before you can have a good investment bubble, you need a concentration of wealth among a minority of the population, such that millions of people have more money than they know what to do with and many of them who are greedy decide to gamble in speculative investments.

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» RE: Nifty article Posted by: akira
» RE: It's the "tax breaks" Posted by: Sushi
It's the quest for more
Posted by: Growthbuster on Feb 7, 2009 3:06 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We have two problems with our economic system, neither of which is being addressed in D.C. or in the press. One is the system requires there be more wealth with each successive year, and that requires ever-increasing inputs of natural capital that is inherently of finite supply.

The second is that it does not work well when our needs are met. We must continuously come up with new needs in order to feed the beast, and that increases consumption, and here we go again bumping up against our limited resources here on Earth.

Why are so few questioning a system that can only be fixed by more shopping?

Dave Gardner
Producer/Director
Hooked on Growth: Our Misguided Quest for Prosperity
www.growthbusters.com

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» EXACTLY Posted by: orda
» Logistics/distribution is a key here Posted by: QuestionAuthority
» RE: This is critical, Posted by: oregoncharles
An apt metaphor
Posted by: Perry Logan on Feb 7, 2009 3:07 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The genie of greed was released by deregulation.

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» RE: An apt metaphor Posted by: Sister_Lauren
if it happens, it was planned is a bit of an overstatment but there's considerable truth in it
Posted by: Suzon on Feb 7, 2009 3:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the UK the current home repossession situation (a repeat of the land grab of the mid-1990's) was preceded by allowing large numbers of Polish workers to immigrate. They were earning good money and bought homes here.

At one point, one out of every five mortgage loans was to a Polish immigrant. This pushed up house prices. Then, as a knock-on effect of the so-called credit crunch, the construction industry employing perhaps the majority of Polish workers collapsed.

Inflate demand and then put people out of work is a proven formula. This time, however, the bankers had the brass neck to demand bailouts. It may well be their undoing. Even people with no mortgage worries are getting wised up.

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Accountability is out of fashion
Posted by: blondesprite on Feb 7, 2009 5:14 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Impeachment of Bush/Cheney and the rule of law was taken off the table, what makes you think
their campaign contributing pals on Wall Street will be treated with any regard to the law?
Republicans and some Democrats agreed to do away with truth-in-lending laws that protected the public while shielding hedge fund managers.
Since its creation, Republicans and some Democrats hated FEMA and knew, in advance, the levees would fail.
They have also hated Social Security, SSDI, Medicare and Medicaid and are, as I write this, pushing to severly cut these programs in order to pay for Obama's stimulus. Look at who voted to change the bankruptcy laws.
You have not caught on yet. They WANT to tear it all down. This is scortched earth and shock doctrine politics.
If you have not wrapped your head around this yet, wake up!
The whole rotten Senate and House (with a few expections) needs to be routed!
Until the US Constitution and the rule of law (Glass-Stegall, The Geneva Conventions, Habeas Corpus, Posse Comitatus, etc.) is restored, brace yourself!

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But Even This Article Misses Nailing The Basis For ALL "Bubbles"
Posted by: gazooks on Feb 7, 2009 5:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While it dances all around it's EFFECTS, the causal driving BASIS is MONETARY POLICY of sustained artificially low interest rates fueling mal-investment of fiat dollars constantly eroding their value.

The government then masks the ill effects of this constant erosion of value through a theoretic calculus enabling the extremes of mal-investment bubbles which distorts an equilibrium of supply and demand.

Then it's "forced" to use "bailout" strategy to prop institutions and industry further reinforcing these imbalances and further eroding purchasing power of the fiat currency.

The market reliance on governmental measures of economic "growth" is fundamentally reinforced by a subservient media owned by corporations who's owners benefit by being ahead of the inflation curve and employing hedges to mitigate it's effects.

Meanwhile, citizens and small investors are suckered by brokers, bankers, media pitchmen, fund managers and hack politicians and commercial analysts into believing that their houses will appreciate forever, or that holding too much equity in them is missing out on other market sector booms while the sand underlying constantly shifts to their disadvantage.

Money represents trust in exchange between two parties. It is THE BASIS of measured market value for everything traded.

When markets are driven by constantly inflated "money", and the rich and well connected are always first in "ground floor" opportunities, the market is relentlessly pumped through media hype, the small investor or home buyer is gradually persuaded to act or invest late in the bubble game and is invariably ruined in the crash of the rabidly inflated market.

How many times have we seen it happen? How many times have politicians been cheerleaders to the process? How many of the benefiting predator bankers, brokers, pitchmen and "preferred" well positioned investors and professional speculators suffer the penalties of insider prohibitions in making a "killing"?

We all know who is invariably killed. But underlying ALL the leveraged weapons designed to take the meager means of the masses is the monetary system and it's banker designed and controlled strategy of constant and relentless inflation of fiat.

They always win, we always loose. Nothing is more certain in ANY market. Nothing is LESS discussed by politicians and "moneymen" as to why that happens as sure as the sun rises.

One dollar bought a basket of basic weighted commodities in 1900. Today, that same dollar will buy 1/98th of that identical basket. That, despite all of the applied efficiencies of the industrial age is the measure of loss to the unit currency. It is not accidental nor natural nor equitable occurrence.

We have more than doubled our money supply since September. We will double that again before May.

The effects of a quantum expansion of fiat dollars will take 6 to 24 months to impact prices.

Don't get fooled again. Time to prepare.

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This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
» RE: You got that right Posted by: Carol Burns
You have to be an Expert to be a Con Artist.
Posted by: titusoye on Feb 7, 2009 6:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In my response to a recent similar article on this subject, I pointed out the economic danger of "wealth or riches not backed by productivity." The following quote for this current article ask the right question, which congress and agencies have failed to ask, perhaps because they too will be implicated.

"What exactly do the people who get paid millions of dollars by Wall Street financial firms do for their money?"

I had thought one of the strengths of the legal system of the United States is the ability of Federal Prosecutors to investigate and indict people whose sources of wealth or riches were dubious.

If the citizens can be educated about ex-convicts such as sex offenders, etc., why can't somebody shield or protect the public from financial con artists who parade themselves as financial experts?

At the time of Adam Smith, it was the wealthy that needed protection from the poor. It is the other way round now, the poor need protection from the rich. The wealthy could afford to pay for any protection they desire. The poor is forced to pay for protection they cannot even afford, only to realize that he had no protection at all. Thank God for food stamps and unemployment insurance. Governments and politicians everywhere have to do better.

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we ain't done yet...
Posted by: ellie on Feb 7, 2009 7:03 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
just look at the dow up over 200 points yesterday, mostly in banking...

treasuries are down a bit...

unemployment figures for jan. are the highest since the '80's...

the house is getting close to 2 cash cows... one is the new 'stimulus' package including the part where housing stimulus is for new notes including a huge tax break... now how many ordinary people can qualify for that idea??? the 2nd is the next release of tarp $$...

got the picture yet??? the next round of free $$ to those that don't need it is waiting in the wings... don't expect it to filter down to the rest of us... vultures are licking their chops...

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» RE: we ain't done yet... Posted by: edgar1
» I don't know but.. Posted by: edgar1
» RE: I don't know but.. Posted by: Stogie
Well, of course they did just that.
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Feb 7, 2009 7:33 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone with common sense, a grasp of simple arithmetic and a desire to go against the consensus should have seen the financial crisis coming.

I watched in amazement as folks who professed exasperation over credit cards--between their whipped mocha lattes, getting out of their (f)leased vehicles, adjusting their designer clothes--purchased houses they couldn't afford.

I watched in wonder as the price of decent housing skyrocketed, and knew that I couldn't get "into the market" as these newly minted Junior Warren Buffets conspired willfully and/or ignorantly to get something they couldn't afford.

Anyone with a lick of sense can tell you that when something is "historically low" and "close to zero", the chance of that thing getting lower is almost nil. Take adjustable-rate mortgages, for instance (please)... All people saw was a chance to "get theirs now". Never mind that the only rational place YOUR DAMN ADJUSTABLE RATE HAD ROOM TO ADJUST WAS UPWARDS. If you speak English, you knew you were in for a sh_tstorm; if you didn't speak/understand English, then you learned a lesson about buying snake oil before you consult with someone.

These greedy people and greedy banks just wanted to take theirs and screw the rest of us! Now we just need to let the chips fall, and let the future tell us what the exact cost of willful ignorance and stupidity really is.

Bad decisions have costs, even to greedy people.

Folks that have had huge medical problems and those who've suffered personal catastrophes outside their control deserve more protection than we currently give them, especially after the recent "bankruptcy reform". That doesn't excuse the folks who have conspired with banks to:

a) price careful savers out of the market by driving up demand

b) trigger this so-called crisis, if you consider a few pockets of--effectively--drunken sailors with a credit cards a national crisis.

c) now demand the right to defraud the rest of us out of our earnings and saving with their relentless crying about their decisions to congress.

The nerve of these greedy people and their greedy enabler institutions! Let them FAIL! Nobody goes to debtors prison in this country, you just get to rent for a while like the rest of us.

Enjoy it and save some money this time around.

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It's all built on a false economy anyway.
Posted by: snax on Feb 7, 2009 7:44 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The author has focused on the equivalent of a hole in the bottom of a boat when the larger issue is really the approaching waterfall. Bubbles don't matter when you give up your ability to generate real wealth, not money, but wealth in industrial production capacity.

It is NO COINCIDENCE that China's economy had a huge boom when we began buying their products produced on the labors of those paid little better than slaves while we shut down factories here. But during that time, we have continued to live as if nothing has changed when in fact, our wealth has been evaporating. The banks and the government have only perpetuated the gravity of the situation by making it so easy for people to live the lifestyle with easy access to credit.

Unfortunately we have now used up virtually our entire credit line and need to approach the issue of the economy from an entirely different direction. 'Freeing up credit' in that regard is not the answer. It is only an interim solution until we figure out what to do next.

I would be much happier to see the current stimulus bill relabled to something like 'The Working Class Jobs Bill' or something along that lines - with NO tax breaks whatsoever to anybody, and a readjustment of our trade policy to actually encourage domestic production over imports.

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Honest voices on the internet
Posted by: chiman on Feb 7, 2009 7:48 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
majority of the people who follow the news probably never heard anyone argue that the economy was being driven by a stock bubble in the 1990s or a housing bubble in the current decade.

In the Credit Where Credit is Due department, the internet had its quota of rational skeptics regarding the bubble economy. Paul Krugman was always sensible and down-to-earth in his popular essays on the economy.
The Housing Bubble blog click has for years provided hard data on the housing economy. Karl Denninger's Market Ticker click has been out in front of the trends, doing the simple arithmetic, again for years. And, more recently, Reggie Middleton's quirky Boom Bust blog click has offered in-depth analyses of the commercial real estate market (and the impending mega-crash in that area).
So, despite the obvious and pervasive intellectual and professional failings of the career experts and commentators, reasonable opposing viewpoints were always just a google search away.

As to the larger issue, of exactly why the trusted experts got it so wrong, I can only speculate. Power? Money?

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» RE: Power? Money? Posted by: gazooks
It's the old horses and barn door syndrome.
Posted by: Sojourner on Feb 7, 2009 7:56 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, Baker gets to tell us how the evidence was there for all to see. As always, we do not see what we are not looking for. It is an American tradition that we will not close the barn door until the horses are long gone.

The horses of climate change and insufficient water and unsustainable population growth have also left the barn. So long as too few are looking, we will not see it until disaster looms.

Because of that very human pattern, we tolerate government and expect it to see the bigger picture. But when our government is owned by those who will not see what's in front of our noses, the disasters will keep coming.

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Experts and Economics 101
Posted by: symcokid on Feb 7, 2009 7:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If there were economic experts utililizing all of their theories for our betterment how in to hell do we end up in this Depression?

Don't these experts realize that you can't take something from nothing, so how in to hell can they create an economy out of nothing.

The way I see it is it's all in the wrists - it's all done with mirrors. It's rather like invisible ink, now you see it, now you don't - the money that is.

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» RE: xperts and Economics 101 Posted by: Sister_Lauren
Of Course They Could See it
Posted by: Outspokengrandmother on Feb 7, 2009 8:23 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Three years ago my daughter and I went toe to toe over her desire to buy a house. "Don't do it. The economy is about to tank. You'll get that house for half or less if there's any money around to pay for it." The approach of this disaster was visible like a 400 foot bright red wall. Not only that, but a lot of people were predicting it on alternative radio. If I could see it - with no power, no economic degree, nothing but a bit of intelligence - what does that say about "The Expert Economists" and those idiots in Congress? I think they're incompetent and I think they lie through their teeth. They just though it wouldn't touch them.

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gimmie shelter
Posted by: gimmie shelter on Feb 7, 2009 8:33 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think all should watch the cable financial channels in their area. What you will here from these snake oil salesmen is about how good a particular this stock or that stock looks at this point, in other words encouraging the public to by them. So lets say that any stock has say fallen 50% from it's high not long ago and you get sucked into buying it and then it goes to worthless, have you gotten a good deal. Think about it you only paid half when it tanked so you only lost 50% of what the fools lost who purchased it at its high.

Wake up. Everyone has a certain amount of greed and all these snake charmers want are the crumbs that are left which they did not get the first time round. Do you seriously think the wealthy are buying them at this point, I think not, and if they are they will not be wealthy for too much longer.

The deck is stacked just like in casino's, don't be a fool by supporting fuel for their yachts. Keep your money and watch the yacht sales increase.

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» RE: gimmie shelter Posted by: gimmie shelter
the way i see it (in short form)
Posted by: using on Feb 7, 2009 8:42 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
good points about financial industry...but here is how I feel:

Alan Greenspan was clearly known for who he was, a follower of the Ayn Rand philospohy...when he was hired...

Therefore, the people who caused him to be hired bear much of the blame..and they were and are the movement that has step by step brought our country to this low.

It was a total plan....of marching head first into disaster. They had spokespeople like Willian Buckley Jr. They had puppets like REagan...they paid creative people to sell their beliefs, their value system to influence our thinking and make their behavior acceptable.

The problem was...most the Abels were working for or benifiting from and therefore partially covering for the guys who were orchestrating the downward spiriling, and so that many covered pieces of truth that has brought us to this point in time. As good people some denied what a piece of their mind surely must have known..

and most were simple unable to hold the future in mind while they were focused on daily survival.

and step by step..we began to create less..to hold onto the status quo..to deteriorate our values and beliefs to oursource our businesses ...groups of workers by group of workers fell off the radiar chart to a lower life style.........as the others closed ranks and watched...some in horror....some in denial....and here we are......

We never learn from history.....because there are too few who understand how to connect the dots..how to take pieces of information out of their slot and reapply it to the current situation. Forinstance one good lesson here is: FIRST THEY CAME TO TAKE.....
reapplied to outsourcing...undermining values, misdirecting vision......from the good for today and tomorrow to NOW....RIGHT NOW....for me...and mine...Way back in the 60's, in the Greening of America the author wrote, "and they took away family and communities and in its place they gave us shopping centers and bowling alleys".......inotherwords, most of us lost our support system.

Our government allowed the financial world to be one of the few standing industries and there was therefore little of value left to invest in....and they allowed it tp exist as a win - lose game..with insiders who move the market as winners of the hard earned-need to save for the future -- money of the losers.

We need to change from the top down and the bottom up. The top has no reason to change of its own accord.

So....from the bottom up we need to know what is our own, and each others, best interests. And we need to support a new breed of leaders of industry to create new opportunities for America based on the old...old...values...pride in a job well done, fair pay (to feel secure and comfortable) for all based on real performance not canned misrepresentations.....we need to stop dreaming in tinselized, commercials... and start understanding our reality.

IN the New York Times there was a article and comments on Obama as a success, as a sex symbol and in a happy marriage. People commented how they regret not having been as serious and delligent as he was so they could be president or atleast in the Presidential pary group and in a marriage as happy as their instead of in their own marriage.

What was most interesting to me...is that in this day and age..when people are suffering they are not out trying to better their piece of the world......nor are they thinking about how they can form goals with their mate that will bring them to support and reaffirm their own relationship. So, even if they could have been in politics, they still do not have the focus or values that helped spiril Obama to where he is today.

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Here is an additional article.
Posted by: undead on Feb 7, 2009 8:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.zcommunications.org/zmag/viewArticle/20424

The business press reviewed the records of Obama's Transition Economic Advisory Board, which met on November 7 to determine how to deal with the financial crisis. In Bloomberg News, Jonathan Weil concluded that, "Many of them should be getting subpoenas as material witnesses right about now, not places in Obama's inner circle." About half "have held fiduciary positions at companies that, to one degree or another, either fried their financial statements, helped send the world into an economic tailspin, or both." Is it really plausible that "they won't mistake the nation's needs for their own corporate interests?" He also pointed out that chief of staff Emanuel "was a director at Freddie Mac in 2000 and 2001 while it was committing accounting fraud."

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Pass the vaseline.
Posted by: monkeywrench on Feb 7, 2009 9:01 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"The public should demand a real accounting."

By whom? There is quite literally now, NO ONE in government we can trust.
. . . . .

"Why does the Fed grow hysterical over a 2.5 percent inflation rate but think that $10 trillion financial bubbles can be ignored?"

Because inflation causes labor rates to rise and often signals an economy where supply, and thus labor, is lagging behind demand. Greenspan's whole reason for raising interest rates a dozen times in the late 1990's – and to slam the economy into recession then – was to tamp down labor rates. (That senile old fart had way more power than brains and should have been fired long, long before he sent the economy south in 2000.) Thanks to rules changes, demand was satisfied by offshore sweatshop production, benefitting multinational corporations and causing increased competition for the few domestic production jobs left – again, tamping down labor rates; the infamous "race to the bottom." The financial bubble, the result of cynical financial manipulation, was deliberate and allowed homeowners to finance the lifestyle they could no longer afford by using their homes as ATMs, first by exhausting their equity and then refinancing with variable-interest loans with absurdly low "teaser" rates, essentially buying their affluence on credit. This was Las Vegas-style seduction on a massive scale from coast to coast.

The Fed ignored the $10 trillion financial bubble because they were told to ignore it. Financial bubbles make boatloads of money for the "Masters of the Universe" because they DO know enough about what they are doing to know how to work a "pump and dump" strategy and skip away with millions or billions of dollars. The "Masters of the Universe" in a very real sense own the Fed, which was also emasculated by the EXTREMELY "business-friendly" (say: crooked) Bush administration. Result? Taxpayers screwed twice: once by a raped economy, and again by having to bail instead of jail the criminals responsible. And those bastards didn't even use vaseline when they did it to us.

And, judging by the response of our bought-and-paid-for congress, they are going to do it to us again. Pass the vaseline.

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» Legalized Crime Posted by: Cathyc
Economics is a bankrupt "discipline"
Posted by: JayHaden on Feb 7, 2009 9:10 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Economics is a bankrupt "discipline" and anyone calling themselves an economist should be marked with a big red "E" on the forehead and shunned (Krugman and Galbraith excepted). Over the years, economics has devolved in the hands of both its practitioners and clients and is now no more of a scientific discipline than marketing, of which it has become a subset. It is being wielded like an old time religion, using psychology to generate blind faith and to keep us satisfied that our miserable state is God's will. The kings instruct their priest-econs: never ever ever bad-mouth the basis for commercial transactions. Don't scare the consumers who might cease buying our crappy products. Lies are part of the catechism, needed to maintain faith. They know that people cannot absorb bad news in a way that will increase the king's treasure. Profits depend on revered economists assuring consumers that we're all still cruising easy, even as the Cadillac hurtles over the cliff.

Therefore, a housing bubble where prices jump 200 percent in five years is not inflation. Neither has been the upward price of cars. Economists instead devise measures of inflation that count the price of maggots, swill, and turds but not the goodies that commit our income for years. And when they create ways of getting the non-wealthy to buy overpriced luxury goods through credit schemes, there's still, miraculously, no inflation.

Economics never was even a social science. Back when I took Econ 101, it was taught as such, but it ignored the subjective and human element and appeared to be oh so rational. Once it figured out the subjective and human side of supply and demand, it ran off and joined the circus, operating under the dictum that there's a sucker born every minute.

Time to put a stop to these charlatans and move to a system of livelihood that doesn't depend on hired guns to justify screwing both worker and consumer.

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» Inner Vision? Posted by: edgar1
gimmie shelter
Posted by: gimmie shelter on Feb 7, 2009 9:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The bubble was a great money maker, all were part of the food chain and all got fees, the only losers were those not smart enough not to take the easy money that was offered them.
The first bubble was the housing bubble the next one you are not hearing about is the credit card bubble.
The credit card bubble comes about do to the drying up of refi loan money as the housing market began to crumble. Many at the time denied that the housing slump would last, so many unfortunate souls decided to put more on credit cards to fill the gap until they could take more money out of their houses. This bubble has all the earmarks of dwarfing the housing bust losses....stay tuned.

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Why, if America was founded by self sufficient people, are we so helpless today?
Posted by: Sister_Lauren on Feb 7, 2009 9:16 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't get it. Did the pioneers 'have a job'? Do settlers need a tax credit? We have more than we need but all we do is cry about want. Solve the basics. Food, clothing, shelter, basic security. Then the next level, education, jobs, etc.

We are all approaching it bass ack wards. Criminal behavior fuels our demise. We have to end the drug war in order to fix the economy. There is no other way.

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» BIG BANKS DIDN'T BUILD AMERICA Posted by: Dennis St. John
gimmie shelter
Posted by: gimmie shelter on Feb 7, 2009 9:55 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You ask why are we so helpless,the answers are lack of family cohesion due to corporate practices. Did you ever pick up a paper or magazine and it list the ten best places to live and find employement. You could find this sort of list in one form or another just about every month in one publication or another and what do you think was the effect.
The older more established seldom ventured to these places but their young flocked to one hot spot after another until they decided to put down roots and stayed in one place, maybe to start a family. Thus the family fiber was weakened so others could exploit that weakness.
At around the same period and over time our seniors were labeled as not in touch, not apart of the modern time, not worth listening to their years of experience. And many jumped on board discounting the value of old people and this was a major mistake and helped lead us to a point where many feel helpless.
What does the military do to a group of strangers in order to get them to lay their life down for others in group, they give them a sense of family. They make them go through all experiences together both good and bad to the point where they break their individual sense and replace it with a group sense.
This comes naturally to families who depend on each other for the survival of the the unit, in this case the family unit.
Our culture has broken it's people down to it's smallest parts which make it easy for others to manipulate and keep distracted.
How many get involved in politics anymore and how many families vote in concert with each other for the good of the families values. Probably not many each votes their own way and maybe meet up at the holidays. And when they meet up they probably do not even talk politics because it end in arguments and fights. This is an effective way that those in power keep us from getting close to one another and in fact make sure we stay separated in many ways.
United we stand and divided we fall is something those in power rely upon to do their will.
Come together with your families and then your communities, one member at a time and one block at a time. Don't let them win.

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gimmie shelter
Posted by: gimmie shelter on Feb 7, 2009 11:01 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am neither a Republican or a Democrat but rather I am an American who grew up believing in this country and not just my little piece of grass. We need to get back together as one nation and not just small groups that can be picked off easily. What is going on now was created by both parties and the corporations they serve, it is up to us to make sure this movie does not have an even worse ending for Americans.
When was the last time your elected official, regardless of party did what you wanted? I know and feel the pain. These people in Washington do not care one whiff, they do not even read the bills they pass, what is it that they are to busy doing that they won't read what they are making law? Naturally one would only read something they could make a difference about so our representatives either must by helpless to change things or they are in agreement with it. You decide.
Between RFID'S and One World Order, North American Union, FEMA camps, The military operating in our streets, the lack of assistance given to "We the people", instead of they the corporations and connected, the NSA wiretapping, Trilateral Agreement, Counsel on Foreign Relations, torture, illegal wars, the military not getting what they needed to protect themselves, Continuity of government signing, Blackwater is and has operated in the U.S., media consolidation, our government paying reporters to act as shills and to be their mouthpiece , no one except the low level get prosecuted for crimes, the Supreme Court hands a person the presidency and then private property to corporations, ground zero workers being told it was OK to breath the air, the keystone comedy act of our military response to the 9/11 attack.
This is not the America I love and care about, the one I thought would always try to do the right thing. Does anyone else feel the same way?
We really need to get back to being a nation founded on something more than profit and consumerism. For a long time people of the world came here, at great hardship to themselves and their families, to have a better future and live the American dream, somehow that dream is now keeping us awake at night, we are not so comfortable anymore.
We are headed for a collision with our destiny, what that will be is determined by each American and where they stand when the time comes, be a part of the solution and not part of the problem. Don't give away your rights and freedoms to those who would claim it's OK or when they say it will be OK If you just follow me. Go to Youtube and or Google to look up some of the things I mentioned earlier like FEMA camps and RFID's ect..
We need to take our country back legally, we are all Americans, jam the phone lines of government, email, write letters but do something, do not wait for someone else to do it for you. It may never get done and you will be at the whim of others. Tell them how you feel about what you are seeing happen to this country.
We are in some very bad times and unless we come together it will get worse. Do your homework and decide for yourself.

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The final solution
Posted by: linecrosser on Feb 7, 2009 11:14 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Freeze, seize and sterilize is the only thing that will get this situation under control. Hopefully this can be done peacefully.

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» RE: The final solution Posted by: richholland
I beg to differ
Posted by: Pirate1 on Feb 7, 2009 12:47 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think there were dozens of economists TRYING to warn of the risks involved with the economic "bubbles" discussed here but they couldn't get any air time. Anyone who had anything to say that was potentially negative about the economy (or the war for that matter) simply were not allowed on television. You'd have panels where extreme right wing thinkers would represent the "mainstream" and right of center conservatives would represent the "left". People with alternative ideas were relegated to what have sadly become backwaters, Pacifica stations, PBS affiliates with more enlightened management and college stations, where their message fell on the ears of the already convinced and reached few to whom it was news.

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» RE: I beg to differ Posted by: gimmie shelter
GOG HELP US ALL
Posted by: stopthemaddness2 on Feb 7, 2009 1:38 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We need to get back to green backs and the days before the Fed Reserve. That would graduate our status economically to a level playing ground.

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» RE: GOG HELP US ALL Posted by: gimmie shelter
» MAGOG HELP US ALL Posted by: Dennis St. John
freak conditions will not return in my lifetime
Posted by: billwald on Feb 7, 2009 1:52 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
>The economy had no problem with financial bubbles during its period of strongest and most evenly shared growth, the years from 1945 to 1973

Those were the best times for the working class in the history of the world and the US was the best place in the best times. Why?

1. We were the only civilized nation with an intact population and industrial base.

2. The Marshall Plan provided jobs and made friends, preventing the normal post war depression when the troops come home to no jobs.

3. The GI Bill took thousands out of the job market and gave us a generation of engineers and teachers.

4. The Eisenhower freeway system created jobs, improved transportation, permitted people to work in the city and live in the suburbs which gave us a housing boom (also urban sprawl and smog).

5. The invention of credit cards gave the working class access to credit.

6. The US was able to get cheap raw materials and labor from the 3rd world nations.

The effect of all this began to wear off about 15 years ago and will not return. Prior to WW1 half of all Americans lived in poverty. We are reverting to the norm.

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» Change is the Norm Posted by: edgar1
I did see it coming, thank you.
Posted by: PaulK on Feb 7, 2009 4:55 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I told anyone who cared to listen.

Now, what you're probably asking is, what's next? Hindsight isn't going to help you much.

First off, notice how the Hartford Insurance company stock has dropped 80% in a year. My two cent guess is it will drop the other 20% too. The Hartford does not have the assets needed to pay off all its life insurance investors. It now has paper assets.

Let me explain paper assets. If your insurance company forecloses on a $500,000 house and thieves rip out the pipes, that house might sell for $100,000 now. So, you hold the house and pray that the price goes up. If it doesn't, and by the way it won't, there's always Congress to bail you out.

Why am I picking on the Hartford? Aren't there lots of other negative value insurance companies out there waiting to fail? Hmm. Yes, I apologize. Sort of. AIG's toxic asset branch collapsed their insurance side last year, but now it's their insurance side that is sinking. The problem is, insurance companies are much bigger than banks.

Madoff at $50 billion is nothing. Well, if it was your money I guess it's something.

But the Titanic will never sink. That's the U.S. Treasury. 10 trillion for Bushie, 1 trillion for Obama.

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» RE: I did see it coming, thank you. Posted by: gimmie shelter
» RE: I did see it coming, thank you. Posted by: chance garden
» Reply Posted by: PaulK
The West is just as INSANE as the East.....
Posted by: Cathyc on Feb 7, 2009 5:13 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... we just keep on pretending we are different, more evolved, than those on the other side - as if they (or we) are are an entirely different species.

What a sick "White-Man" joke!

Out of Africa, and all that jazz...

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RIGHT-WING CONSERVATIVE EXTREMIST PLANS
Posted by: nobyjingo on Feb 7, 2009 7:29 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
RIGHT-WING CONSERVATIVE EXTREMIST PLANS

The Right-Wing did see it coming--they set it up. Phil Gramm is one that was in on their extremist plans from the beginning, but he wasn't the only one, and Bush isn't the only one, but Bush definitely isn't innocent. Now the entire right-wing is acting like the star of the old "Get Smart" television movie series, telling us what we will believe, because the last thing they are going to tell us is that right-wing Republicans and corporate DLC conservative Democrats cooperated in an economic free fall plan to destroy the socialist network of the common population of this nation and many nations in the world, but they did; long-term premeditated and deliberate "drowning in the bathtub" of all the common populations social network in the United States and around the world. War works to satisfy the right-wing's agenda. Looks like now people are going to actually learn who the 70% common population really are, instead of thinking everyone is in the 20% "middle class". Hopefully Obama with the help of God will somehow pull the whole country out of the REPUBLICANS determined economic calamity of the entire common population's social network. The right-wing has managed to maintain their social structure so that they know every little thing about any working individual in order to control whether or not they are able to get a job anywhere, should they have a problem of any kind any where all companies will know, or medical attention if they have been seen previously for the same malady, medical insurance can't be provided, or mandatory auto insurance can't be provided if you let it lapse, to name only a few of the right-wings social structures against the common population that are many, and the laws against the common population basically to segregate people so that they will be vulnerable and easy prospects for jail. After all Cheney makes his money from private jails. And, geeze, have you noticed that nearly ALL the shows on television on every channel are about the courts dealing with the common population or the police dealing with the common population. There are so many different judges ruling on television for entertainment that it is really sickening. It is sad to see the common population used for entertainment by the wealthy and powerful.

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Yes
Posted by: yesman on Feb 7, 2009 10:54 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"The details of the accounting scandals in the stock bubble and the convoluted financing stories in the housing bubble required some serious investigative work, but the bubbles themselves were there in plain sight for all to see."

Absolutely correct. I, for one, understood years ago the unsustainability of the "fake money" economy which originated with Reagan's disastrous policies. And I have never taken even one economics class. So, the notion that these "experts" were blindsided by the current turn of events is laughable. We shouldn't be laughing, however. We should be devising a way for the crooks and bunglers who produced this catastrophe to be made to pay the price for it. Handing over hundreds of billions in taxpayer dollars to them to spend as they please is NOT the way. Hopefully we'll come up with something more appropriate and much more unpleasant for them.

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Sigh
Posted by: talkville on Feb 8, 2009 1:10 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Father, Mother, Nanny, Teacher, Preacher, Minister, Priest, Therapist... knows best"

Alas!! Not always.

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Symptoms - NOT Causes of FASCISM
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on Feb 8, 2009 2:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article is about as illuminating as the smoke and mirrors economy itself.

"Fed" Chair Bernanke admitted the private Ponzi scheme "Federal Reserve" Corp (not federal and with less than ZERO reserves) created the Great Depression of 1929. Former "Fed" rigger Sir "Bubbles" Greenspan's doctoral thesis was on housing bubbles and Greenspan absolutely promoted the derivatives insanity that produced this phony crash gut and burn Organized Corporate Crime Wall Street thievery.

Can anyone else see the extortion insanity of having to borrow money from a private FASCIST bank in order to provide a worthless fiat money supply for the nation?

Can anyone else connect the dots?

Give it a try...



“I would like to say to Milton and Anna: Regarding the Great Depression. You're right, we did it. We're very sorry. But thanks to you, we won't do it again.”
Federal Reserve Governor Ben Bernanke (Conference to honor Rockefeller promoted economist theorist Milton Friedman, University of Chicago 2002)

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gimmie shelter
Posted by: gimmie shelter on Feb 8, 2009 6:39 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Take a look in Wikipedia for Trilateral Commission and you will find Paul Volcker's name as one of the group....enjoy..... then look up Council on Foreign Relations and see who is there and why. Make sure you read all that's there to get the full impact. These guys are not Boy Scouts they are all part of the same team and they are not on our side, but rather are on the side of world domination. See you in the FEMA camps.

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» I'LL BE IN THE MOUNTAINS WITH MY GUNS Posted by: Dennis St. John
Comparative Job loss years
Posted by: Purple Girl on Feb 8, 2009 6:45 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
'worst in 17 yrs' (1992- follwing 12 yrs of Repug rule)
'Worst in 35 yrs', 'since 1982'....Seeing a pattern?
Teh '70s recession is always conveneintly blamed on Carter, yet the econmic downturn began during Nixon. At least Carter told the nation to conserve energy, 'turn down the thermostats and put on a sweater'
Lincoln S& L scandal= Reagan
Enron= Repugs had seized both Houses.
'fiscal Conservatives'...10 billion a month for 5 yrs to build Nothing!
Those of US who lived through the '70's and '80s KNOW the REAL HISTORY, not that which has been reformulated by the Criminals who were comitting the Corp & Political Piracy. Repugs and their corp Co conspriators have been trying to destroy this country for Decades. Everytime Repugs gain power they systematically work to undermine Our Independence and Reputation.
Repugs have refined the Art of 'Truth Speak'- Tax cuts, Reagan raised Taxes and so did HW ("read My Lips"). W has saddled every child born with about $20,000 in over due taxes as soon as they take theri first breath! 'Deficit Reduction' and 'fiscal conservativism' is BS when you've squandered the surplus and then chraged up what atleast 5 trillion is Foreign creditor debt in Just 8 years?
'American Values' when you've not only Barred the average ameicna Worker from acessing and benefiting from the market,but spied on them and Lied to them. That's the Political system of dictators and Kingships!
don't tell me your 'God Fearing' either, when you have assasinated MD's, Killed with pipe bombs and consistently call 'Crusades' and Pre emptive strikes on other nations. Not to mention blocking REAL efforts to reduce AIDS adn Unwanted pregancy prevention.Shit they don't even care what happens to 'Eden'
The Repugs and their Corp Cohorts ahve committed high crimes against US, The world and have broken every one of the 10 Golden rules.they are the Party of Traitors, Inhumanitarians and the Damned!

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There was a whole school of economists that saw it coming
Posted by: ReallyBearish on Feb 8, 2009 9:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From the Austrian School. Some might call them "right wing" but most of the right-wing economists laughed at them.

Check the debate between Peter Schiff and Ben Stein on youtube.com. Schiff is from the Austrian School.

Also check gold-eagle.com and 321gold.com. The gold bugs and the Austrian School saw the problem clearly going back to the 1990s. Their "libertarian" politics might not gain traction in the middle of a Depression, but their analysis was light years ahead of the conventional group of economists that couldn't see multiple bubbles that should have been obvious. ("Easy Al" Greenspan said that he couldn't see a bubble until it burst. Great. He could pass for an economics version of Mr. Magoo!)

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The Chinese get screwed too
Posted by: mrcentrist on Feb 8, 2009 9:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Remember that this whole operation (the United States economy) is able to stay afloat because the Central Bank of China buys U.S. Treasury bills to the tune of $1 billion per day. So the American people are a docile lot and get screwed by Wall Street, but the same goes for the Chinese: A bit of a screwed and docile lot, shall we say?

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look in the mirror
Posted by: grkjr on Feb 8, 2009 11:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Tired of hearing it but so true, as usual.. we still ignore the basic nature of being a usa citizen...
1. always reach for more, better, newer.. never ending lust for more
2. ingore all articles.. warning of consequences to our actions when they do not support "more" There were indeed many warning of the coming "bubbles" just as there are now of the impending dangers of the present "bailout"
3. expect congress and this president to do what is expedient to save their own skins, not what is right for america. The bailout looks like it does for only one reason, it supports the suvival insticts of those in congress the powerful and the wealty.
4. look for short term profit versus long terms gains... we are addicted to this be it the lottery, horses, or the stock market... how else to get "whats next and new"
5. the biggest barrier to resolving this is ourselves as we too follow the same insane path to "wanting more" as congress/administration and it is only by virture that what is best for us is not the same as what is best for the wealthy at this point in time.. they seek to preserve as we seek to survive. and thus they must take a little more from us to maintain there wealth.. and the way to do that is to give you a few dollars in tax rebate in order to give themselves billions for "bailout" to preserve their investments. this keeps us quiet and content and satisfied for we get to have a little "more" for a little longer.
6. Finally, keep sending them back to congress and "hope" that something different will show up in the action they take.. "tigers do change their stripes" don't they...?

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Dean Baker book event: March 1 in DC
Posted by: nicolecepr on Feb 8, 2009 1:43 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dean Baker will be discussing and signing "Plunder and Blunder" on Sunday, March 1st at 1pm, in DC at Politics & Prose (5015 Connecticut Ave. NW)

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Let All the Banks Fail !!! And Then.....
Posted by: Patriot46 on Feb 8, 2009 2:53 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our government will more easily be able to issue money and lend it out at NO interest to the borrower. You see the (Fractionalized) Banking System depends upon us the public to borrow money to buy a house or car etc..... But what was not widely known is that the Banks just go to their computers and create the money. The ratio used to be 9:1 for every dollar loaned the bank would get 9 more dollars to lend out. It does not increase in a straight line it is Exponential. Check it out at www.themoneymasters.com
For a brighter American future read, study and support the Monetary Reform Act.

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Banking and economic crisis really an empire vs democracy crisis
Posted by: amacd on Feb 8, 2009 5:06 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The banking 'bailout' and the economic 'stimulus' are the broken twin engines of this floundering Cigarette-boat economy caught in a gale. Paulson has already been washed off the foredeck with his 'bazooka', Gaithner and Summers are fighting over the wheel and throttles, while Volcker sucks on the clogged fuel filter.

But what Obama needs is a sensitive sailing crew attuned to fine adjustment of sail trim and the tack of our ketch working to windward with the wind and seas, rather than dead-in-the-water power-boat idiots just trying to pour on the power (money).

In a word, Obama needs to listen to David Korten (“Agenda for a New Economy”), Ralph Nader, William Greider, Ron Paul, and many others who understand that not only are the supposed ‘bailout’ and economic ‘stimulus’ in crisis on these maelstrom seas, but more importantly that our democracy is in crisis (having been captured by Empire) and is at the heart of all our sorrows of empire --- both abroad and at home.

As Hannah Arendt presciently warned in the era of the Nazi Empire, “Empire abroad (always) entails tyranny at home” --- along with domestic economic oppression.

We have met the enemy, and it is not us ---- it is this corporatist financial empire posing behind its ‘Vichy’ façade of democracy.

We need to re-establish America’s founding true Northstar: a democratic Republic of equal and universal representation in voluntary self-government --- which maintains free choice of the governed over all the spheres of our commonwealth, such as political, economic, and social, which have previously been controlled by the ruling-elite hand (visible or hidden) of Empire ---- except the separate and non-interfering sphere of religion.

We need to simply walk away from this fascist Empire and its ‘Vichy’ front. “This could be the start of a great relationship” for all average working class Americans who honestly believe in the promise of America’s gift to the world, and the rest of our fellow citizens of a promising democratic world ---- finally united against empire, as we were 233 years ago..

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» AVAST THERE, MATEY--A SAILOR YE BE Posted by: Dennis St. John
"YOU Try To Live on $500K"
Posted by: Lilly on Feb 8, 2009 7:11 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is fun. Look up this article in today's New York Times: "YOU Try To Live on $500K In This Town". Google by title, or if you've got the paper it's on the front page of Sunday Styles. Here's my favorite bit: "If you are in a culture where spending a lot of money is a sign of success...it's about fitting in." Gives chapter & verse about what things cost if you are one of the beautiful people.

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» mess drivin by the culture Posted by: dealmeinfo2
PAUL KRUGMAN WAS SOUNDING THE ALARM FOR A DECADE
Posted by: Dennis St. John on Feb 8, 2009 8:24 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I only took 5 semesters of economics in college, including graduate level, but everything I learned has apparently been ignored. What ever happened to guns or butter?

Anyway, I'm no conspiracy theorist, but the fact is that this has happened before and it will happen again. Way back in the Wild West, the banks went bust. A cowpoke was hard pressed to find a job punching cattle. Some became outlaws. Mirabile dictu, many small ranches were gobbled up by big ranchers with money from the East.

Every time one of these bubbles pop, someone behind the scenes buys up land, property, stocks, and bonds for pennies on the dollar. They increase their wealth exponentially when the recovery finally arrives. Meanwhile, Joe Sixpack is too worried about the scarcity of employment to do anything constructive, or revolutionary.

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STOP POSTING AND SEND EMAILS TO OBAMA ET AL
Posted by: Dennis St. John on Feb 8, 2009 8:45 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Use the internet to maximum potential. We're all pissed off. Do something about it. Send emails to Obama and your state congressmen and any other politician you can think of. After you write a post, copy it into an email. Be relentless, keep the bastards pinned to the walls!

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gimmie shelter
Posted by: gimmie shelter on Feb 9, 2009 12:18 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
TIMELY WORDS
FOR BUYERS AND SELLERS IN 2009

Despite the poor economy that most of us are dealing with today, the megayacht industry will have its largest EVER year in 2009 with over 1,000 megayachts over 80' in length on order. The largest increase is in orders for boats in the 150-200' size range. All told, the orders would stretch 24 miles if laid end to end. It does seem a trifle - what's the word - 'bizarre' that there is a segment of the world's population that is doing so well.

For the rest of us who are engaged in the boating industry whether we are sellers, buyers, brokers, lenders or dealers the recreational boating market has declined 30% in the past three years. In a nutshell this means brokerage houses are more than ever educating their customers about the importance of real time values, dealers will be holding the line on floor plans and looking for new value added customer services, marine lenders are going to require higher credit scores and debt-to-income factors will come into play more than in the past. For sellers it means coming to grips with today's boat values. For buyers, it is a heyday.

This is real and why do you suppose megayacht sales would be going up?

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» RE: gimmie shelter Posted by: gimmie shelter
gimmie shelter
Posted by: gimmie shelter on Feb 20, 2009 8:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rick Santelli should be fired for creating a bait and switch. The arrogance of trying to fire up an audience to believe it was the people and not the corporations that created the looting of America is incredible. He asks the audience if they want to pay for the mortgage of the person next door, while no one may actually like the idea at least it has an immediate and direct affect for anyone living around this house. The house is not abandoned or vandalized to make the rest of the block look less attractive, thus helping not to drag area home prices further down.
The Bait and switch comes when you think of the amount of taxpayer dollars in the form of welfare for the rich have been pumped their way and with no positive result. These jerks should be in jail and all their property should be seized to begin to pay back the citizens of our country, albeit pennies on the dollar.
For this A..hole to suggest that it would be better to give the crooks more money to buy a larger yacht instead of helping your own community is ludicrous. Wake up and see them for what they are.....and I'll let you figure that one out...

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