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Is the Entire Bailout Strategy Flawed? Let's Rethink This Before It's Too Late

By Joseph Stiglitz, CNN. Posted February 2, 2009.


We gave the banks hundreds of billions to start lending again, and instead they're just hoarding the cash, waiting until things settle down.

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America's recession is moving into its second year, with the situation only worsening.

The hope that President Obama will be able to get us out of the mess is tempered by the reality that throwing hundreds of billions of dollars at the banks has failed to restore them to health, or even to resuscitate the flow of lending.

Every day brings further evidence that the losses are greater than had been expected and more and more money will be required.

The question is at last being raised: Perhaps the entire strategy is flawed? Perhaps what is needed is a fundamental rethinking. The Paulson-Bernanke-Geithner strategy was based on the realization that maintaining the flow of credit was essential for the economy. But it was also based on a failure to grasp some of the fundamental changes in our financial sector since the Great Depression, and even in the last two decades.

For a while, there was hope that simply lowering interest rates enough, flooding the economy with money, would suffice; but three quarters of a century ago, Keynes explained why, in a downturn such as this, monetary policy is likely to be ineffective. It is like pushing on a string.

Then there was the hope that if the government stood ready to help the banks with enough money -- and enough was a lot -- confidence would be restored, and with the restoration of confidence, asset prices would increase and lending would be restored.

Remarkably, Bush administration Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson and company simply didn't understand that the banks had made bad loans and engaged in reckless gambling. There had been a bubble, and the bubble had broken. No amount of talking would change these realities.

It soon became clear that just saying that we were ready to spend the money would not suffice. We actually had to get it into the banks. The question was how. At first, the architects of the bailout argued (with complete and utter confidence) that the best way to do this was buying the toxic assets (those in the financial market didn't like the pejorative term, so they used the term "troubled assets") -- the assets that no one in the private sector would touch with a 10-foot pole.

It should have been obvious that this could not be done in a quick way; it took a few weeks for this crushing reality to dawn on them. Besides, there was a fundamental problem: how to value the assets. And if we valued them correctly, it was clear that there would still be a big hole in banks' balance sheets, impeding their ability to lend.

Then came the idea of equity injection, without strings, so that as we poured money into the banks, they poured out money, to their executives in the form of bonuses, to their shareholders in the form of dividends.

Some of what they had left over they used to buy other banks -- to pursue strategic goals for which they could not have found private finance. The last thing in their mind was to restart lending.

The underlying problem is simple: Even in the heyday of finance, there was a huge gap between private rewards and social returns. The bank managers have taken home huge paychecks, even though, over the past five years, the net profits of many of the banks have (in total) been negative.

And the social returns have even been less -- the financial sector is supposed to allocate capital and manage risk, and it did neither well. Our economy is paying the price for these failures -- to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars.

But this ever-present problem has now grown worse. In effect, the American taxpayers are the major provider of finance to the banks. In some cases, the value of our equity injection, guarantees, and other forms of assistance dwarf the value of the "private" sector's equity contribution; yet we have no voice in how the banks are run.

This helps us understand the reason why banks have not started to lend again. Put yourself in the position of a bank manager, trying to get through this mess. At this juncture, in spite of the massive government cash injections, he sees his equity dwindling. The banks -- who prided themselves on being risk managers -- finally, and a little too late -- seem to have recognized the risk that they have taken on in the past five years.

Leverage, or borrowing, gives big returns when things are going well, but when things turn sour, it is a recipe for disaster. It was not unusual for investment banks to "leverage" themselves by borrowing amounts equal to 25 or 30 times their equity.

At "just" 25 to 1 leverage, a 4 percent fall in the price of assets wipes out a bank's net worth -- and we have seen far more precipitous falls in asset prices. Putting another $20 billion in a bank with $2 trillion of assets will be wiped out with just a 1 percent fall in asset prices. What's the point?

It seems that some of our government officials have finally gotten around to doing some of this elementary arithmetic. So they have come up with another strategy: We'll "insure" the banks, i.e., take the downside risk off of them.


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See more stories tagged with: obama, banks, government, bailout, nationalization

Joseph Stiglitz, a Nobel laureate, is a professor of economics at Columbia University.

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Alert! CNBC is Reporting the "Bad Bank" idea is moving forward!
Posted by: mmckinl on Feb 2, 2009 12:16 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The "Bad Bank" or "Aggregator Bank" Plan is nothing less than using tax payer money to bail out the greed and fraud of Wall Street Banks!

We need Nationalization of the banks to get a hold of the crisis and hold shareholders, bond holders and especially management of these banks and pay the piper for their catastrophe.

The "Bad Bank" will consume over a trillion dollars of tax payer money, and probably much more. Recent estimates of the losses top $5 trillion and as the economy nose dives it will only get worse! It will put in jeopardy all government spending such as SSI and Medicare!

Call, write and phone Congress today then tell your friends!

Congressional Lookup By Zip

Call Now to Stop the Bad Bank Plan

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
» What on earth does your comment mean? Posted by: and_abottleofrum
» It means he's an idiot Posted by: Iconoclast421
I think You missed something!
Posted by: madmax427 on Feb 2, 2009 1:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Your article did not mention that this crisis also came on because of the CROOKS "running" the Banks, like INTO the Ground & Purposely!

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Seize Bad Banks.
Posted by: Urgelt on Feb 2, 2009 2:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's a mystery to me why we're fooling around with these taxpayer giveaways. We have a mechanism for dealing with a bank whose net worth is negative. Seize it. The stock holders get nothing. Top executives are fired. Whatever can be salvaged is salvaged. Pieces are sold off, or repackaged into a viable bank and sold.

The laws governing this are on the books, the institutions responsible for carrying it out exist and know their jobs. This is exactly what we did during the S&L crisis, and it worked.

It seems to me that Treasury's strategy is to try to prop up a bubble that has already burst. That can't work, we're just wasting money.

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» It's No Mystery Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
» Nice Point! Posted by: marid
» RE: It's No Mystery Posted by: billwald
» RE: It's No Mystery Posted by: Yankeeinexile
Stiglitz asks, "What's the alternative?"
Posted by: WhatNow? on Feb 2, 2009 2:44 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How about some supply side economics for a change. Most people can't or don't want to borrow anymore. So why do we keep hearing all this crap about lending? The free marketeers at the banks ought to be left to the free market. They should be left to decompose. All the money that has been and will be sent to the banks should have been divided evenly amongst all adults whose income is less than something like $50k/yr or maybe even $30k/yr or less. Help the people that need it most and let the free marketeers die by the sword they like to slay the rest of us with.

If we didn't have a government of the rich, by the rich and for the rich none of these bank bailouts (theft) would have happened. To hell with the banksters. Give the money to the people not the scum whose greed and lies have caused these messes. Quit propping up a failed system that takes from the masses to give to thieves! Quit privatizing profits while socializing the risk!

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» Thanks, I meant demand side. Posted by: WhatNow?
» RE: That bankruptcy bill! Posted by: Cybershaman
THE INVISIBLE HAND
Posted by: orda on Feb 2, 2009 4:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...needs to slap the crooked bankers upside the head.

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» Has been in our pockets! Posted by: marid
Sell the Gamblers as indentured slaves to their creditors
Posted by: Purple Girl on Feb 2, 2009 5:21 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Theres something to be had from the Human trafficking industry when the Bankers, investors and CEO's are being led to the auction block.
"Outraged" does not adequately reflect the Anger Americans are feeling. We want revenge (a dish best served COLD).20 BILLION in bonus's, 45.2 Billion in Profits!!! 350 Billion in replenishing their casino accounts.
Repugs had better sit down and shut up before someone calls for an 'Open Season'. They have ruined my small business and possibly my home. Not to mention my daughters future..what's the current debt for a child born today- it was about 16,000 a couple of years back, No doubt at least doubled now.
If 'socialism' comes to America, It is solely the Fault of the Repug party and their Corp co conspirators!Liberals have been screaming for REAL Free Market access, Ethics and a level playing field for decades!They have painted US into a corner by attempting to institute a Fuedalistic caste system, Big surprise the only system that will drag US out of their Greed and Irresponsiblity catastrophe is the exact Opposite!
I gotta Pitch fork with every Repugs name on it! Time to start Pitchin' Shit!

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» socialism is already here. Posted by: rafaeltoral
Demopublicans are the CROOKS!
Posted by: garcam123 on Feb 2, 2009 5:48 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think the whole American government is an oligarcy comprised of haves who provide for and feed off of each other. Obamas only change we can believe in is going to be the change left in your pocket after they destroy millde-class America and we're all living in fields while they rent your old house to their low wage minions!
Giethner and Summers were part and parcel involved in the deregulation of banking laws that protected investors. Clinton and Phil Gramm comitted crimes against America by doing what they did. Now Daschel, who made millions advising and mouthpiecing for healthcare special interests is going to bring change we can believe in to common Americans? see above.
Americans need to begin removing all of these professional polititians/thieves and organize to make changes by referendum and demand ethical government based on providing opportunity and support to average Americans again. I'd like to see the banks fail and the government put people to work for fair wages, but I don't see that happening...we have no power in this benovolent dictatorship!

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Flawed?
Posted by: JWilderJo on Feb 2, 2009 6:08 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yeah, I'd say its flawed, Billions of dollars going to those who need it least while Main Street America suffers? Yeah, its flawed alright!

RT
Privacy Center

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» Spam Posted by: Bliss Doubt
CHECK THIS OUT!
Posted by: themarla on Feb 2, 2009 6:25 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let me show you a multi-trillion dollar financial scheme pertaining to our so-called "water infrastructure upgrade." It ties up 50 yrs of secret altering of the water system for upcoming WATER DIVERSION!
CLICK HERE: Marla

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CHECK THIS OUT!
Posted by: themarla on Feb 2, 2009 6:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let me show you a multi-trillion dollar financial scheme pertaining to our so-called "water infrastructure upgrade." It ties up 50 yrs of secret altering of the water system for upcoming WATER DIVERSION!
CLICK HERE: Marla

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dipconsult
Posted by: dipconsult on Feb 2, 2009 6:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mr. Stiglitz is clearly right. On the table since the beginning of the "meltdown" last fall is taking control of the banks by government purchasing of sufficient shares (no need for 51% - they'll get the message around 20% if it's made clear govt will purchase more as required to get control). Why no one listens when the Swedish precedent worked well is a mystery. (I hope it's not because of Bush era government to business "old boy networking").

Govt control, but not full ownership, of banks (with the possibiities of sacking the worst CEOs and directors) would open the way to a lending policy - which, iner alia, would involve support for homeowners and other elements needing stabilisation if the economy is to be "lifted".

We can't forget that Bush's Iraq war cost over $700bn - curiously the first Paulson figure put forward to cure the financial meldown! (We warned in 2002 that one doesn't go to war on a tax cut! For details - see our 2002 and 2003 papers on our website www.dipconsult.eu) Excessive credit was not confined to the private sector - Government war borrowing was also part of the reckless credit expansion.

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We Need a Steady State Economy
Posted by: mtnprivy on Feb 2, 2009 7:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nature knows better than to grow continually. All organisms reach maturity and some sort of homeostasis. If they don't, then we call that CANCER. There are never enough resources for continuous growth. I like the comment someone made about "proping up the bubble". That is what we are doing.
We gotta imagine and create a different world. We gotta mature, grow up, and find a lifestyle that the world can live with. We have to understand and live by the cycles of life, and not just dead-end processes such as the landfill. We cannot afford to have "waste," gluteny, and thoughless burning anymore. Let us not pretend to be ignorant when we know these things already.
We are not living right, and we have to turn it around, NOW. Once we have killed our mother (earth), then we wil find out painfully where our milk was coming from.
Check out "steadystate.org" and sign their position on growth. tell others about it too. Also, check out "grist.org" and search there for old articles by "herman daly".

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I prefer the "Jon Stewart" Plan
Posted by: popeurbanxxiii on Feb 2, 2009 7:05 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Last week while interviewing Gwen Ifill, Jon Stewart put forward one of the most intelligent proposals yet. Why bail out the crooks on Wall Street? If you put that money out there into the public, who would use it to settle their own debts, it would free up a sizeable portion of their income.

People who have maxed out their credit cards would now have hundreds -- possibly thousands -- available for spending now. The confidence in the economy would go up. Local merchants would be doing better. The money would ultimately wind up in the banks anyways.

The problem with this recession isn't that the banks won't lend. It's that people are at the end of their credit ropes and there are far fewer credit-worthy borrowers with all of the job losses.

Put the money in the people's pockets instead of the banks and they will spend it. This will circulate the money through the economy. Putting it in the banks has just caused a taxpayer liability and the money is just sitting there doing the economy no good.

The string metaphor is only partially correct -- we are pushing on noodle-brains.

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Too little too late already. This is what you get for voting for these two parties.
Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield on Feb 2, 2009 7:24 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nader, Mckinney, or even Paul or Barr would never have let this mess flow like crazy. A vote for Mccain or Obama was a vote to continue this mess which is why I voted Nader yet again. I don't even want to know what 2010, let alone 2012 or even 2016, will look like.

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Add $50 billion for a nuclear bail-in
Posted by: PaulK on Feb 2, 2009 7:28 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Congress's own watchdog predicts that half of this $50 billion will go to bankruptcy. The Senate snuck it in to their side of the stimulus bill. No net lifetime energy gain, plenty of up-front energy cost - - why doesn't the Senate just put the earth under a blowtorch?

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Re-think it?
Posted by: gandolfshep on Feb 2, 2009 7:58 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don't rethink it. Stop it.

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job security for "malefactors of great wealth"
Posted by: littlepitcher on Feb 2, 2009 8:08 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The bailout is about protecting rich white males from the legal consequences of their corruption.

If a "bailout bank" is opened, the crooks and incompetents get to keep their jobs and bonuses.

Such programs also derail any requests for full disclosure audits and for arrest and prosecution of white-collar criminals.

Same old affirmative action for a rich white male minority we've had to endure since the age of the club and trephine.

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Time to nationalize the banks
Posted by: Democritus on Feb 2, 2009 8:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Market principles having failed, much to the surprise of Alan Greenspan, it's time to apply Darwin's law to the failed banks. Those that survive will be better off, and so will we be.

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Simply pouring money on a fire won't put it out.
Posted by: monkeywrench on Feb 2, 2009 8:51 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"In effect, the American taxpayers are the major provider of finance to the banks."
- - - - -
Once again, this time government mandated through taxation, money is being transferred from the many to the few, and then hoarded by those few or paid out as dividends to – whom? – investors, themselves part of the wealthy elite in America; again, the few.

This is the 800 pound gorilla in the room that no one wants to talk about: the fact that any effort to right the economy is compromised by the massive transfer of wealth, the greatest in the history of mankind, that has occurred over the last 20, and particularly the last eight, years. This insane money-grab by the greediest 5% of the population leaves nothing but more debt for Obama's administration to work with, and little to no money in ordinary people's pockets to spend when they regain confidence in the economy.

This needs – no, MUST – be reversed. The money to move this economy must be put back into the hands of those who spend it: the middle class and below, NOT the wealthy, who simply hoard it for their heirs or who invest it offshore (worsening our trade imbalance.)

Nationalizing many of the more egregious hoarding banks and other financial institutions would be a good start; after all, many of them have proven themselves time and again to be incompetent – or criminal – in their management of other people's money.

In the short run, Obama will have to rely on borrowing to jump-start the economy, and all of that borrowing should go to mortgage relief and jobs creation, much like what FDR did in the 1930's. But, longer term, the Obama administration will need to close gaping loopholes in the taxation of corporates and the very wealthy. Corporations, the filthy rich and conservatives whine that America has the highest corporate tax rates in the world (a point that is debatable); but the fact is that a full 85% of corporations, through those loopholes, pay no income tax at all!

Also, I would like to see tariffs for imported goods reinstated over time (I acknowledge that doing so too quickly could slam the economy) to encourage domestic production, and to no longer allow any American corporation to make its world-wide headquarters a post office box in the Caymen Islands so as to evade paying taxes.

Our economy will never get back on its feet with any kind of stability unless the wealth of this nation is owned more equitably by The People of this nation, and the onerous trend backward to a feudal society of kings and peons is reversed.

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What the Hell!
Posted by: writerman on Feb 2, 2009 8:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe the state could just bypass the banks altogether? Aren't the banks effectively on strike? Their lending strike is destroying the economy, with probably disasterous consequences for the rest of society and no guarantee that everybody will be around when the up-side starts, if it ever does. There is no guarantee that there will be an upswing, we can hope, but we cannot know.

Instead let's give money to the people in inverse proportion to their actually wealth. The exact opposite of Bush's tax-cuts for billionaires. Give big checks and massive tax relief to the poor. Let's redistribute wealth on a massive, historic scale. This would get the economy moving again, or would it?

Is the economy in far worse shape than even Stiglitz realises? I'm know I'm crossing swords with a guy who won the Nobel Prize in economics, but what the hell, he seems like a cool guy.

What if the 'credit crunch' is merely a symptom of something far worse lurking underneath the surface? What if their is a structural flaw in the shiny, capitalist diamond, that won't be solved by merely tinkering?

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Is the Entire Bailout Strategy Flawed? Joseph...
Posted by: chance garden on Feb 2, 2009 9:14 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Joseph...what part of the word SCAM don't you understand? Time to rethink...CRIME...yes, I'll say it's time! Come on, quit chewing the fat..tell the truth...these "fixes" are not fixes at all...and these foxes are only lining the henhouses for future plundering...Why so timid with the truth? The Government is full of crooks...

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A FOR INSTANCE
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Feb 2, 2009 9:30 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you had a friend with a wife and two children, known to be a compulsive gambler and his electricity had been turned off would you, (A) Lend him the money to pay the electric bill, or (B) write a check to the electric company? We continue to throw money at the same people who pissed it away to begin with. Any company receiving federal funds should be required to fire their top six people. This is done in other countries. Honesty can't be bought. Sometimes it seems as though we're trying to avoid embarassing these people. A great deal of effort went into covering John Thain's butt, until it became impossible. They don't believe they're doing anything wrong. That has to change. Thanks, ANNA

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Minneapolis Fed: Facts and Myths About the Financial Crisis of 2008
Posted by: GuitarBill on Feb 2, 2009 9:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Federal Reserve Bank of Minneapolis: Facts and Myths About the Financial Crisis of 2008.

Authors: Patrick Kehoe, V.V. Charri and Lawrence Christiano.

The four myths are as follows:

[1] Bank lending to non-financial corporations and individuals has declined sharply;

[2] Interbank lending is essentially nonexistent;

[3] Commercial paper issuance by non-financial corporations has declined sharply and rates have risen to unprecedented levels;

[4] Banks play a large role in channeling funds from savers to borrowers.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this "bailout" is the biggest non-military government intervention in history since the Great Depression, yet no evidence is presented to support the TARP, nor are we told what specific market failure this $700 billion is designed to fix.

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Don't Narrowly Focus only on the Banks
Posted by: welshTerrier2 on Feb 2, 2009 9:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If our entire focus is on what to do about the banks and the rest of the financial services industry, we're going to patch up one gaping hole in the dam and leave thousands of others unattended. Don't address the fiscal crisis too narrowly; thing BIG!

Stiglitz gave us the perfect hint in his article when he wrote: "The difference is that now, the incentives of the banks can be aligned better with those of the country."

The problem is not just that the banks are not aligned with the interests of the country and the American people; the problem is that corporate America is not aligned with our best interests.

Corporations wield enormous power in Washington. They write many of our laws and play a huge role in who "represents us" ... or more accurately represents them. They define many of our foreign and domestic policies. These policies do not align with the interests of the American people.

One might call such conduct "treason."

Whether the banks are nationalized or not, one thing is certain. The American banking industry must be forced to comply with the needs of the country rather than the selfish, greedy, narrow needs of their shareholders. For too long, "free marketers" have peddled the idea that what's good for business is good for the country. That has to end and it has to end NOW.

We need to awaken the American people to the idea that domestically-based corporations have to start acting in the best interests of the country and the best interests of American workers and American consumers. If they don't, they should be dismantled or at least heavily penalized through the tax code. Foreign corporations hoping to access the US consumer market should have to comply as well.

No stimulus plan, or any other plan, can possibly succeed until there is a fundamental change in the relationship between government and commerce. Any system that allows corporations to influence elections and ballot questions, and that allows corporations to put profits ahead of the national interest, and that allows jobs to be exported to the lowest bidder IS NOT SUSTAINABLE.

Are we clear on that?

Whether you call it socialism or capitalism or any other ism, our economic system must put the country first. If it doesn't, i.e. if, by design, it pits a narrow segment of the society AGAINST the best interests of the country, we will land exactly where we are now.

The issue is not about nationalizing banks; it's about mandating that corporations serve the interests of the country. Don't make the mistake of narrowly focusing only on the banks; see the big picture.

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LICSW, Emeritus
Posted by: higlommen on Feb 2, 2009 9:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The curent "derpression is based on the grand transfer of our national welth into the hands of a few "fat cats". It started with Regan.
The method of reversing this is to start at the bottom. Increase the minimum wage to at lest $10.00 an hour. That will put about 75 billion dollars into the economy beginning right now!That money will be spent on needed products and service as soon as it is received An example. In 1935 my family received enough money to buy a team of horses, as plow and enough to build a chicken coop. As a boy, I was able to get my first pair of leather shoes. The return on the investment was profound. The Farm Relief program gave our nation a big jolt. Getting money into the hands of those who work for minimum wage will work fast, and meet real need. Putting more money into the hands of the money changers will just pretty much be stuck to their hands.
Our commerce begins with the retail purchase.

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It's too late,
Posted by: lewb on Feb 2, 2009 10:17 AM   
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they killed all the chickens,now they're getting the whole farm. The corporatocracy tucked it to us again. Unbelievable how much they stick it to us,without any repercussions from us. Bush tried to bankrupt the budget so there would be no money for needed social programs. Now we gave them back the money they gambled away,and on top of that we gave them money to try and salt it away. How stupid we are! The Anti-Bush,Obama is a plant by the corporatocracy to lull us into thinking real change is forthcoming.They must howling with laughter,knowing they tucked it to us again.

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The reason the Dems Won...
Posted by: ralphzilla on Feb 2, 2009 11:00 AM   
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If the Repubs had won the election then we might have gotten a bit more scrutiny of this latest act of piracy. But now that the Dems are running the circus nobody is going to do anything for the public.

> Citibank is currently valued at around $25 Billion (probably closer to zero). We could have bought them 7 TIMES over with all the dough we have tossed their way!

> Are these so called bonuses, really hush money to keep all of the crimes from being exposed?

> Just because the uber rich have shifted their dirty money to the Dems, doesn't mean that we still shouldn't eat them.

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We don't need more credit, we need meaningful work that pays a living wage, dammit
Posted by: DaBear on Feb 2, 2009 11:21 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But for the rich stoopids, 'Merkuh might yet recover from the shitstorm her owning-class wrought.

For being such a smart guy, Obama is turning out to be quite a nice looking tool. At least he pronounces the English language properly most of the time....

This is the great leader.... holy shit. my bad barbituate leftism...

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Freeze all bank assets immediately!
Posted by: Sojourner on Feb 2, 2009 12:25 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree that Obama’s full-out support for the Paulson plan is not what he led us to expect with his campaign. It is not change. I am beginning to suspect, however, that we have no idea what the full extent is of the rip-off under W.

So I hope that, while all the talk of propping up existing structures goes on, someone is also working at preventing more American wealth from going to offshore accounts and allowing instant transfers of domestic accounts to offshore locations.

The rats are deserting the ship, and taking our national resources with them. They need to be trapped. As I have not heard a word about a behind-the-scenes plan to shut down the escape hatch, I may be fooling myself.

That is to say, freeze all bank assets immediately, or as soon as we have an army ready to take over its management.

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The headline of this article
Posted by: Grandma Crabby on Feb 2, 2009 1:42 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
cracks me up. What a DUH? question if there ever was one.

Gee, do you think handing the keys of the kingdom over to crooks more clever, devious and power-connected than ANY movie character bank robber James Bond foe, is a bad idea or a good one?

On a moral level, at least Bonnie and Clyde were honest bank robbers. These guys pretend to be helpful free market capitalists. This entire fiasco will be analyzed and criticized for the next several eons. The answer to the DUH questions will never change.

IT WAS A SUCKY IDEA FOR THE PEOPLE BUT GREAT FOR THE ROBBER BARONS.

And they said Marie Antoinette was clueless and selfish. At least she really can blame inner stupidity. These criminals pretend to be SHOCKED their plans "don't work" as they laugh all the way to the bank.

Granny's crazy videos = Go get a chuckle!

Luv,
Granny

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Fractional Reserve Banking, same old story
Posted by: gexrobert on Feb 2, 2009 2:04 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One has to look back in history to understand banking. Sometime in the Middle Ages, gold started to be deposited into vaults with paper scripts issued. The paper was easier to carry around than gold. The ah ha moment for the vault owner was when he discovered that he could print up a few extra paper scripts and circulate them as money and get away with it. Thus, modern capitalists banking was born. Today, there is a modern term for this fraud, fractional reserve banking. Banks are allowed to print money out of thin air at a 10 to one ratio to how much actual money they have. It does not take a rocket scientist to see the outcome of this Ponzi scheme. In good times, money flows through the system and everything works fine, especially for the banks creating money out of thin air at a 10 to one ratio. The whole system relies on confidence in the Ponzi scheme. When the confidence is shattered by whatever event (call it credit crisis, bad mortgages, derivatives, or whatever), the thin air part of the scheme becomes dramatically apparent and there is a recession/ depression. This has gone on for about 300 years since the Bank of England started the fractional reserve banking at a modest 2 to 1 ratio. Right now, with fear gripping the Ponzi scheme, the only one still investing into the scheme is the US government with taxpayer money. It is never a good position to be in, the last one into the Ponzi scheme. The bankers seem to sense this, why else did 20 billion in bonuses go out of the scheme last month? So no matter what the government does to fix the financial problems of the country, a system based on fraud will eventually catch up to itself. One thing the government could do instantly is quit issuing Treasury bonds and just print the money, thus avoiding the interest payments. But this would upset their hold on the US citizens, it was no mistake that the IRS was formed in the same year as the Federal Reserve, 1913.

The author hit on something that is hopeful in this mess:
"The difference is that now, the incentives of the banks can be aligned better with those of the country. And it is in the national interest that prudent lending be restarted."

If banks were create money for infrastructure projects and other things of value for the society, then maybe the focus on value for the society would start to push the system in a different direction.

All of FDRs spending did not stop the depression. It did stop an insurrection. World War II ended the last depression, at a cost of 50 million lives. Perhaps the financial whisperers in the halls of power are starting to go down that path again. Obama will have some real decisions to come up with

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Bailout strategy flawed?
Posted by: Bliss Doubt on Feb 2, 2009 3:08 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think the people of this country have been pointing to the flaws of this agenda all along, including Bush's bailout, including Obama's. Even the congress people and senators say, in interviews, that their constituents who contact them are opposed, 90 percent or more, depending on who's talking, to these spending bills. Only the republicans, the democrats and big business have ever been in favor of bailouts, and, to my consternation, they will prevail!

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finally-
Posted by: particle61 on Feb 2, 2009 3:17 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
stiglitz pushing for a nationalization of America's banking system- he may be pouting for not getting the tip for a second spin in the white house...but, its about time someone from the banking classes (albeit academia) speaks the truth -

see the bank run blog for a daily dose of depression expression...

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Perhaps it's time
Posted by: GeoL on Feb 2, 2009 5:19 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
to entertain the notion that capitalism is a failed model. Pure capitalism has probably never been tried, since it devolves immediately into corrupt monopoly or oligopoly. In a capitalist system, an individual driven by personal greed and aggrandizement will always triumph over one who has any regard for the common good.

That's what our Constitution tried to establish, a government that would counterbalance the personal drive of a monarchy/aristocracy with a force that would "provide for the common welfare." Somehow, that concept has been lost, overwhelmed by the "greed is good" ethic so proudly espoused by the Reagan Revolution. Less a revolution than a usurpation, the devaluation of Government as a force for the common good has brought us inevitably to the present crisis. And unless we get past the ingrained aversion to the term and bring in Socialism (government supporting the common good against the greed of the individual) we will sink ever further into this mire until we get back to feudalism, with the mass of serfs bound to and promoting the good of their lords, the Capitalists

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» RE: Perhaps it's time Posted by: wrinklemomma
It's not going to be OK
Posted by: Ghoulman on Feb 2, 2009 6:27 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a Depression. It's gonna last for over a decade. Obama is wonderful, but he isn't a superhero. Not really. I wish I could find a way to express... oh wait...

It’s Not Going to Be OK
by Chris Hedges

http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/02/02-0

Quote...
"Wolin, who taught political philosophy at the University of California in Berkeley and at Princeton, in his book "Democracy Incorporated" uses the phrase 'inverted totalitarianism' to describe our system of power. Inverted totalitarianism, unlike classical totalitarianism, does not revolve around a demagogue or charismatic leader. It finds its expression in the anonymity of the corporate state. It purports to cherish democracy, patriotism and the Constitution while cynically manipulating internal levers to subvert and thwart democratic institutions. Political candidates are elected in popular votes by citizens, but they must raise staggering amounts of corporate funds to compete. They are beholden to armies of corporate lobbyists in Washington or state capitals who write the legislation. A corporate media controls nearly everything we read, watch or hear and imposes a bland uniformity of opinion or diverts us with trivia and celebrity gossip. In classical totalitarian regimes, such as Nazi fascism or Soviet communism, economics was subordinate to politics. "Under inverted totalitarianism the reverse is true," Wolin writes. "Economics dominates politics-and with that domination comes different forms of ruthlessness." "

...

Is it just me or is this the most immediate understanding of today? BTW, it would be great to see this article on Alternet. Just a thought.

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when are they gonna understand...
Posted by: undrgrndgirl on Feb 2, 2009 7:35 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
that when the 90% of us on the "bottom" no longer have any money to spend - real or credit - it doesn't matter how much money is pumped into the banks...i don't know about you, but even if it were available, i can't afford, nor do i want, any more credit!

the alternative is to wipe out consumer credit debt, student loan debt, create REAL jobs with REAL living wages (none of this $6.00/hr bullshit), and implementing single-payer not-for-profit health care...

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Go ahead, say it: "TOO BIG TO FAIL" means "TOO POWERFUL TO BE CONTROLLED"
Posted by: PaulC on Feb 2, 2009 8:48 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That really sums up everything that is wrong with our economy today.

Capitalism works fine as long as there is competition and businesses remain small.

The Standard Oil monopoly taught us that big is bad. That is why we passed laws against monopolies.

But over the last three decades there has been a runaway boom in mergers and acquisitions. With that concentration in power comes a complete breakdown of the free market system, and of democracy itself, leading to the current crisis.

We are being sold out to the lowest bidder.

Nothing will change until the monopolies are broken up in every area of business.

That is the challenge before us.

peace,
Paul

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Flawed? How about deliberate LOOTING of the Nation by criminal Mafia Fascists?
Posted by: Man_vs_Kleptocracy on Feb 2, 2009 11:51 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Next to what happened on 9/11 and the completely false so-called "war on terror" the Wall Street "Bailouts" will be the biggest single organized theft put over on America in history.

The amount that corporate criminals will hijack from the U.S. for this one grandSlam theft will be more than ALL past wars, the New Deal, Marshall Plan, NASA program, etc. (According to CRS, the Congressional Research Service).

This is naked Fascism that would have never happened if we had put reasonably honest people into govnernment to begin with. A congress full of people the like of Ron Paul, Cynthia McKinney and Dennis Kucinich would have never allowed this mass theft to occur. Reason being: they would have already abolished the private "Federal Reserve" Bank corporation (a privte scam) and restored honest money to the land.

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No liability
Posted by: Hans B on Feb 3, 2009 1:10 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No one really knows what's going on, but the banks do have information we don't. And their policy is to hand out big bonuses instead of shoring up their companies with capital. So it's plain that they think it's time to kill the chicken, steal the goose, and run for it.

That's the more easy for them since they don't have to run fast or far. No police will be looking for them. We've structured the capitalist economy so, that corporation owners (shareholders) have limited (or no) liability, and corporate managers have only the responsibility to enrich the shareholders. Any environmental, social or economic harm done by the company can legally be passed on to society as a whole.

And as long as we don't remedy this, corporations will be encouraged to plunder the world, and their leaders will be living in golden castles.

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Nationalizing is better because?
Posted by: macrumpton on Feb 3, 2009 6:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Because of the irrational fear of socialism in the US, nationalizing the banks is probably not going to happen unless things get a great deal worse, and by then it will be too late to help.

On the other hand, lending money to the banks with strict stipulations on how it can be used with a variable rate proportional to how the bank profited on using the money would do the same thing and it would be a lot less scary.

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Why would increased lending help in the first place?
Posted by: Defenestrator on Feb 3, 2009 9:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If the problem is too much debt, why do we want the banks to lend MORE? They are already just lending out money just so people can pay interest on existing loans and avoid default.

Instead of lending more (which I think it a flawed strategy anyways) the "Too Big To Fail So We Must Bail Them Out" banks have used our money to undergo FURTHER mergers... making them even BIGGER!

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need a new plan
Posted by: jimmie d on Feb 3, 2009 10:11 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The only institution or bank that should be allowed to be too big to fail should be a National Institution or Bank. Private institutions and banks, businesses or corporations do and should fail. The people of the USA deserve national Banks, Health Care, and public institutions most of the rest of the civilized world has already developed.

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collapses and genocides are the real solutions.
Posted by: Blair T. Longley on Feb 5, 2009 4:06 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have been collecting my thoughts

in a thread entitled

"Some Monetary System articles"

on our English language forum at:

http://www.marijuanaparty.ca/forum.html

The political economy is inside human ecology.

The debt controls were made by death controls.

The money system depends on the murder system.

The banksters are the best organized criminals.

Nobody else can compete with their powers to
make money out of nothing, which they used
to buy control of the mass media
and the political processes ...

The world is controlled by huge lies,
backed up with lot of violence, and
the radical truth is that we are
now headed towards the only
real solutions left ...

collapses and genocides.

The only theoretical alternatives
may be to negotiate better forms
of death controls, however, that
is practically impossible to do.

Therefore, the way the books
shall actually be balanced is
with blood flowing in rivers.

The world's financial system
has become electronic fraud,
backed with atomic weapons.

Since the violence can NOT
make the lies it enforces
become true, therefore,
the whole thing is now
headed towards some
psychotic breakdown.

There is no reasonable hope for the future.

During the collapses and genocides,
the banksters will probable be able
to ride through, and therefore, the
New World Order fascist plutocracy
will emerge triumphant from the
collapses and genocides that
they deliberately caused.

Everything is going to gang up on us
during the next few years, & we are
on the wildest, untested ride!!!!!!!

I do NOT expect to survive this ...

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................
Posted by: itouch backup on Feb 11, 2009 1:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
+++++______________________
itouch backup

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