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Was the 'Credit Crunch' a Myth Used to Sell a Trillion-Dollar Scam?

By Joshua Holland, AlterNet. Posted December 29, 2008.


Even as the media continue to repeat the claim that credit has frozen up, evidence has emerged suggesting the entire story is wrong.

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There is something approaching a consensus that the Paulson Plan -- also known as the Troubled Asset Relief Program, or TARP -- was a boondoggle of an intervention that's flailed from one approach to the next, with little oversight and less effect on the financial meltdown.

But perhaps even more troubling than the ad hoc nature of its implementation is the suspicion that has recently emerged that TARP -- hundreds of billions of dollars worth so far -- was sold to Congress and the public based on a Big Lie.

President George W. Bush, fabulist-in-chief, articulated the rationale for the program in that trademark way of his -- as if addressing a nation of slow-witted 12-year-olds -- on Sept. 24: "Major financial institutions have teetered on the edge of collapse ... [and] began holding onto their money, and lending dried up, and the gears of the American financial system began grinding to a halt." Bush said that if Congress didn't give Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson the trillion dollars (give or take) for which he was asking, the results would be disastrous: "Even if you have good credit history, it would be more difficult for you to get the loans you need to buy a car or send your children to college. And ultimately, our country could experience a long and painful recession."

For the most part, the press has continued to echo Bush's central assertion that there's a "credit crunch" preventing even qualified borrowers -- that's the key point -- from getting loans, and it's now part of the conventional wisdom.

But a number of economists are questionioning the factual basis of the credit crunch narrative. Columnist David Sirota recently looked at those claims and concluded that Americans "had been punk'd" -- that "the major claims about a credit crisis that justified Congress cutting a trillion-dollar blank check to Wall Street were demonstrably false," and the threat of a systemic banking crash was used by the Bush administration to overcome popular resistance to the "bailout."

It's a reasonable conclusion; this is an administration that used the threat of thousands of al-Qaida sleeper cells in the United States to sell Congress on the Patriot Act, the specter of mushroom clouds rising over American cities to push through the Iraq war resolution and the supposedly imminent crash of the Social Security system to push for privatizing Americans' retirement savings.

But the question comes down to what they knew and when they knew it. The analyses that suggest the whole credit crunch narrative is false are based on data that lagged behind the numbers that policymakers had available, in real time, back in September. So the question -- probably unanswerable at this point -- comes down to whether or not they looked at the situation and in good faith believed that pumping hundreds of billions of dollars into the banking system would contain the damage and save an economy teetering on the brink of collapse.

What Else Could Be Happening?

Of course, no one disputes the fact that as the economy has tanked, the number of new loans being issued to American families and businesses has plummeted. But is because credit has dried up for qualified borrowers?

Economist Dean Baker doesn't think so. He explains the situation in simple terms: The media, he argues, "are blaming the economic collapse on a 'credit crunch' instead of the more obvious problem that consumers just lost $6 trillion of housing wealth and another $8 trillion of stock wealth." It's a commonsense argument: much of the economic growth of the Bush era existed on paper only, built on the rise of a massive bubble in real estate values rather than growth in productive industries. When all that ephemeral wealth vaporized -- and with the economy shedding jobs like a dog with dermatitis -- consumers stopped buying, and businesses, anticipating a long slowdown, stopped seeking the loans that they might have otherwise tapped to expand their operations.


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See more stories tagged with: economic crisis, financial crisis, paulson plan, tarp, big lie

Joshua Holland is an AlterNet staff writer.

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View:
A Scam By Wall Street Banks ? ....So Where's The Audit ?
Posted by: mmckinl on Dec 29, 2008 12:55 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We know for fact that Wall Street Banks, the big ten, have on their books over 150 trillion of dollars worth of derivatives including Structured Investment Vehicles, Mortgage backed Securities, Credit Default Swaps and other financial derivatives. If the hundred billion dollar losses at AIG is any example then these Wall Street Banks have trillions in losses, so far. With the economy going in to the tank there will be trillions more.

So why isn't everyone calling for a nationalization to begin auditing all the banks' books under an FDR Bank Holiday or Swedish Plan to sort out the solvent from the insolvent banks ? Tax Payers certainly deserve an accounting of the 9 trillion used so far for loans and guarantees.

Dean Baker, Joshua Holland, if you suspect a scam then where is your call for an audit of these Wall Street Banks ?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Obama's new Fed Chairman Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars
» Pssst....over here, genius. Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Obama's new Fed Chairman Posted by: racetoinfinity
» Loans aren't the issue.... Posted by: Prophit
» Where's the... Adult ? Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Where's the... Adult ? Posted by: Lauren
» RE: not a good sign Posted by: Lauren
» RE: not a good sign Posted by: racetoinfinity
» RE: Where's the... Adult ? Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Where's the... Adult ? Posted by: StillStanding
» RE: Where's the... Adult ? Posted by: Lauren
» Shut up moron Posted by: yellow
» RE: Shut up moron Posted by: racetoinfinity
We Are Experiencing A Deflation
Posted by: NoPCZone on Dec 29, 2008 1:09 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some of the symptoms and numbers are skewed by the actions of the Federal Reserve, TARP and others, but the underlying movement is and has been a deflation.

Deflation would be nothing to fear as long as a safety net existed to protect the innocent in the downdraft. I personally have not been using my house as an ATM, have no debt and have lived within my means. This should be my chance to get a more affordable house, being liquid and all.

The conservative Democrats and almost all Republicans always run their mouths about a free market, but they never allow the free market to work. What they like is crony capitalism under the guise of a free market.

Sure, there is a lot of theft going on right now- the Shock Doctrine right before your eyes. Anyone doubt Ms Klein any longer?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» What Republicans Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars
» RE: What Republicans Posted by: rickyvern
» keep running away from the ball Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars
» RE: What Republicans Posted by: Lauren
» RE: I think you know... Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Well, yes. Posted by: oregoncharles
» Gold is going up Posted by: ReallyBearish
» RE: Actually, Posted by: oregoncharles
» There is no deflation Posted by: ReallyBearish
» RE: There is no deflation Posted by: racetoinfinity
» RE: Deflation??? YES Posted by: NoPCZone
» RE: Deflation??? Absolutely NOT! Posted by: ReallyBearish
» RE: Deflation??? Posted by: NoPCZone
» Bunk from Yellow, as usual Posted by: ReallyBearish
» RE: more deflation rubbish Posted by: ReallyBearish
Limbaugh Said It Was a Scam!
Posted by: Sons on Dec 29, 2008 1:33 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oh my God.

I heard Limbaugh a month ago saying it was a scam! He even called up some banker and asked questions about difficulty getting a loan.

She said there was NOT a problem getting a loan.

Wow. Limbaugh!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Rush is Right (again) Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars
We live in an age of illusion
Posted by: richard0a37 on Dec 29, 2008 1:41 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think it's about time that everyone now realises the so-called credit crisis was nothing but a big pile of shit, something the Bush Administration has been very good at creating.

Indeed, the whole truth can be summed up in the letter I received from my bank the other day, and which reads:

Dear Sir
As you know, the Bank of England base rate was marginally reduced recently; consequently, some of our savings interest rates are also being reduced. See enclosed for details.

That's the reality on the ground. Petrol has also got cheaper, and VAT has been reduced on some goods.

Occasionally, things get marginally more expensive, or perhaps a bit cheaper, but always hovering around the affordable.

In other words, nothing has changed.

If the banks passed money around without telling anyone, we would be none the wiser.

But Bush et al wished to generate an air of panic and get everyone talking about the same subject. Just like 911 or when the first Bush invaded Iraq in 1990.

These are all experiments in psychological operations (psy-ops) to see how clever they are at manipulating events and public opinion.

Without doubt, we have evil non-human beings running the show. This so-called credit crisis took off at about the same time as an alien space craft was scheduled to be been seen hovering over the southern states of the USA, but of course that never materialised, possibly because I'd already broadcast the news to everyone and laid out a chilling scenario behind its motivation. (that's without the apostrophe by the way)

Plus, certain battalions of the Army are rumoured to be positioned to quell any public disturbances or riots. Is this still true, or is this just another piece of news meant to deceive us?

Life over the past 8 years has been like scenes out of Alice in Wonderful where nothing is quite what it seems.

A new film has just been released on Sky TV called Lions for Lambs starring Tom Cruise, Robert Redford and Meryl Streep. Tom Cruise has got his photograph taken with George W Bush and Condeleezza Rice. Cruise plays a senator who has masterminded a new strategy for hitting the Taleban.

This film, in my view, is just like real life US politics - full of phony emotion and phony motives, and at the end of it, you are left wondering what the hell it's all about. Perhaps someone could clarify the plot.

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» Bush Bush Bush Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars
» RE: Bush Bush Bush Posted by: StillStanding
» RE: Bush Bush Bush Posted by: Lauren
» A weird bias Posted by: Perry Logan
» RE: Bush Bush Bush Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: We live in an age of illusion Posted by: racetoinfinity
Bailout: the climax of a 40-year crime wave?
Posted by: lorenbliss on Dec 29, 2008 1:47 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Note the compelling similarity between the last 40 years of U.S. economic policy and how organized crime provides itself with free money.

In a technique pioneered by the Sicilian Mafia but since adopted by all other criminal organizations, the mobsters use various ploys to buy into a legitimate business, gradually increase their control to the point of absolute authority, then like vampires methodically bleed the business dry of cash.

The remnants -- machinery too obsolete to sell, the buildings themselves -- are typically destroyed in an “accidental” fire just before the insurance expires. The proceeds of the entire scheme vanish into the criminal treasury -- typically some offshore bank account -- where they are used to finance further criminal enterprises, whether illegal (slavery, drugs etc.) or legal (the acquisition of more businesses to similarly plunder). It is a process so well known to New York City/New Jersey journalists, there have even been pools as to when such “lightning” would strike.

Bearing these facts in mind, note how the looting of government that began under Nixon and has continued ever since parallels how parasitic mobsters prey on businesses.

This is the context in which we must view the so-called “Bailout.”

Which brings several more questions into painfully sharp focus:

What is capitalism but the ultimate form of organized crime?

What if -- never mind it has absolutely no historical counterpart in criminal boldness and savagery -- the $700-billion bailout is the climax of an epic crime spree? What if -- in typical gangland fashion -- it is the final ransacking of our national wealth?

What if the nation the leadership of which Obama then inherits is no different from any other gangster-looted enterprise? What if it is but a hollow shell? What if the United States has truly been reduced to the economic equivalent of a vampire-withered corpse?

Is that perhaps the real reason the ruling class financed and otherwise arranged Obama’s victory? A final, ultimate slap-in-the-face to African-Americans?

And could there be some colossal criminal cabal of global corruption that might then profit if the United States were destroyed by an insurance fire of thermonuclear proportions?

I say again: what is capitalism but the ultimate form of organized crime?

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» When has a poor person giving you a job? Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars
really, like really
Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars on Dec 29, 2008 1:49 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ya'll re-elected all the major players on Capitol Hill so really most of ya'll should be mute. The Bernie Madoff guy gives money to heavy hitter Democrats just like Fannine and Fred and whats being done about that

crickets

You can go on a President Bush diatribe all you want however his days are done after 01/20. Whom are you going to blame next, the Easter Bunny? Ya'll need to stop acting like Wall Street is only in the pockets of the GOP because that is far from so. I mean were is Wall Street located again, in one of the worlds most Liberal Cities, thats a far cry from Ames Iowa.

When Republicans screw up they dont get reelected however the likes of Barny Frank, Most of the CBC, Henry Waxman, and 9% Nancy Pelosi, keeps coming back to congress time after time then you wonder why things like this keep happening.

Check your own house Liberals

p.s. Madoff gets 3 years tops, suspended sentence with five years probation. George Sours got the condo in Belize all ready set up for the guy

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» See: Barney Frank Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars
» Becuase God created the earth on 01/20/01 Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars
» I live in the places you never care to visit Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars
» oh yeah, where is that? Posted by: bizeeb
» RE: I didn't, Posted by: oregoncharles
» this whole Madoff thing... Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars
Americans deserve what they get...
Posted by: skoog5600 on Dec 29, 2008 2:37 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As an expat living in a more civilized and educated world, I have to say as I watch this debacle unfold I can only think of one phrase - "Americans deserve this".

Yes, the American populace are asleep as they rob the bank.

It's a long way to the bottom, but y'all are on your way!

Sayonara!!!

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» Almost 50% of Americans? Posted by: Cathyc
» I have to agree with you. Posted by: and_abottleofrum
» yarn Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars
» Nice try... Posted by: skoog5600
» RE: Americans deserve what they get... Posted by: Skunkatthepicnic
» RE: I am very relieved... Posted by: skoog5600
» nowhere to run. Posted by: rafaeltoral
"If it happens, it was planned" is a bit of an overstatement, but not in this instance...
Posted by: Suzon on Dec 29, 2008 3:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The bankers and credit card companies get you out on a limb before they bring out the chainsaw. It was done in the 90s in the UK when 500,000 families (that's not individuals, but families) lost their homes because of negative equity. The government did nothing to help them.

Yes, that's the same government of Her Majesty's which protects the aristocrats and the quasi-aristocrats with subsidies.

We need a land tax, boys and girls, and a return of the luxury tax.

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disaster piracy
Posted by: socialpsych on Dec 29, 2008 3:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the midst of the "crisis" I received several offers from Chase for loans at 2.99% interest! They were giving away money! Where was the "credit crunch?" Pure fiction.

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» RE: disaster piracy Posted by: Lauren
» RE: disaster piracy Posted by: aussidawg
what is going on??
Posted by: richholland on Dec 29, 2008 3:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
in Cambodia, where human beings sometimes are sold to feed the rest of the family, limbless men beggars on the beaches they are building now luxury hotels, expensive penthouses.
For whom, where comes the money from????

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» RE: what is going on?? Posted by: Lauren
» RE: what is going on?? Posted by: G.Achin
» RE: what is going on?? Posted by: Lauren
» RE: what is going on?? Posted by: rickyvern
» RE: what is going on?? Posted by: daniel1982
TARP intended to stop a panic
Posted by: cberkland on Dec 29, 2008 4:35 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I"m now convinced that TARP was nothing more than an attempt by Paulson to alleviate fear in the markets and stop a total financial panic from developing. In reality, $700 billion wouldn't even come close to helping with the $100+ trillion dollars worth of toxic waste in derivatives held by various financial institutions. It was an attempt to look like the Treasury had everything under control. The only hope we have left is government stimulus spending like FDR did in the 30s. It's very unfortunate that we are starting out in this difficult period already in the hole $10 trillion dollars after 8 years of GWB.

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money stream
Posted by: cbishopp on Dec 29, 2008 5:14 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Aside from the bailout comes the creation of money, trillions of dollars, that has an interest rate that we will never be able to pay back to the Federal Reserve.
The illusion of the credit crisis set the stage (as has been the modus operendi of the present administration)for panic when no threat existed outside of the dangers from those claiming to protect us.
The same people who are making money now will continue to do so as the dollar loses value in an attempt to pay back these trillion dollar loans.
But the yoke will always be there. The debt will never go away as long as the Fed controls the production of our currency. The value of this currency can only decline and the creation of new currencies (like the Euro) will consolidate power to an even greater extent. With the dollar having such long tentacles and the impact of the "financial crisis" being felt all over the world, it seems wise to have a variety of valuable currencies in play. Instead we will see the dollar devalue until we are forced to take on a new currency.
Talk about a credit squeeze!
Take back our currency, reduce taxes, create health care. We can run a whole economy on taking care of each other by killing the middleman.

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» RE: money stream Posted by: Lauren
Otto .
Posted by: otto on Dec 29, 2008 5:26 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is the answer, as some have suggested, to let banks and financial institutions go broke, declare bankrupsy, and then nationalize them and let the government run them more efficiently?

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» RE: Otto . Posted by: Lauren
Third Trillion Dollar Bubble Created by FED
Posted by: 911FalseFlag on Dec 29, 2008 5:52 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Today's banking crisis is the THIRD trillion dollar plus US-caused financial meltdown in the last twenty years.

Each one of these crises came into being through the same basic mechanism...the fraudulent over-valuing of financial assets by Wall Street - with a "wink and a nod" (and sometimes a lot more) from the White House and Congress. The fraudulently valued assets stimulate the economy, impart the illusion of health and then, inevitably, the fraud goes too far and the whole house of card comes painfully crashing back to earth.
The White House stood in the way of any state prosecuting federal banks and mortgage companies for predatory lending. They actually used a portion of the enabling act creating the US Comptroller of the Currency to preempt the regulation and prosecution of these banks for fraudulent loan activities. This is why Eliot Spitzer was politically assassinated. He wrote an editorial in the Washington Post three weeks before his assassination accusing the White House of preventing any state Attorney General from prosecuting these criminal activities. Of course, the mainstream media did not report the actual reason that this politician’s sexual indiscretions were reported so immediately and excessively.

The mainstream media never reported on Bush planting in the White House press corps a gay escort, Johnny Gannon. Gannon based on the Secret Service records of visits to the White House visited the White House over 200 times and stayed overnight at least two times.

Go to www.911insidejob.net for more articles and videos

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» RE: End the Fed Posted by: ron heringhauser
It's only a paper moon
Posted by: willymack on Dec 29, 2008 5:56 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Shining over a carboard sky. Our monetary system is a chimera, a smoke and mirrors scam, designed by and for THIEVES, and for their benefit alone. Oversight? Buy off the right people in congress and the senate, and voila! No oversight; complete opacity. By now, even the most obtuse of us probably knows he's been had, discounting those lunkheads who STILL think bush is a swell guy; there's no hope for them, and never was.

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» RE: It's only a paper moon Posted by: Lauren
Sleepers Awake
Posted by: Nicnic on Dec 29, 2008 6:03 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It appears many people are finally starting see beyond the hard sell, which has infested all aspects of our lives. Imagine for a moment that we've been wrong about everything. Imagine that we've been lied to about everything by all of our treasured institutions whether rooted in religion, government or science. Imagine for a moment that you're the product of a completely fabricated world where truth is a patented invention. Imagine the fox has gained access to the chicken coop. Try to imagine why you can't react--why you can't think properly--why you're numb and indifferent--why you're selfish and ignorant.

Oh, I forgot to tell you to turn off the TV first. Eventually, you'll realize the real reason behind the digital broadcast movement and why it's so important for them to have everyone wired into the same channel. You've made it so easy for them to own your lives. You've offered yourselves up as livestock and reduced your significance to that of the very corn fed mutes you voraciously consume.

You are past the point of no return. You're going to have to fight your way out of it. But they're ready for you. Ready and waiting under the auspices of Homeland Security.

The only way to stop them is to stop the funding. Pass the Fair Tax, buy only locally grown food, engage in local or regional commerce and turn off the freaking TV, read a book, participate in life don't just watch it acted out, create your own community and revitalize your local newspaper.

Goodnight and good luck...

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» RE: Sinking into the Sunset Posted by: americansheep
» RE: Sinking into the Sunset Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Sleepers Awake Posted by: riondluz
» RE: Sleepers Awake Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: Sleepers Awake Posted by: Lauren
» Tax revolt possible? Posted by: FREE SPEECH
I think so..
Posted by: daniel1982 on Dec 29, 2008 6:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I thought it was a myth. In the midst of a credit crunch, my bank went ahead and pre-approved me for a $14k line of credit at a nice 8% (or so). Sure I can't extrapolate my singular experience to the economy but still.. If a bank was short on cash, why would they be throwing money at people who never even asked for it?

Before the first (and even the second) bailout vote you could not turn on the news and not have yourself be inundated with reporters telling us how we'll lose our jobs if the bill doesn't pass. It was also fast - too fast. At the very least, why couldn't congress wait a few weeks to assess the situation? Instead it rushed into this like a drunken sailor with bags of money. There was no need to do it so fast.

At the end of the day, this bailout is what sunk the Bush's legacy, not Iraq. There is no way future generations will look kindly on this.

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» RE: I think so.. Posted by: adlerman
» RE: I think so.. Posted by: adlerman
» Investigate! Posted by: rt968
Money is the drug and humanity is still hooked and in denial...
Posted by: SevenStarHand on Dec 29, 2008 6:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As I've explained many times here and elsewhere, the problem is the existence of money. Now that these scams and the unfolding derivatives debacles (yes, more than one...) are understood by many, why not take the leap and consider a civilization based on cooperation and good judgment (aka truth, wisdom, and justice...), instead of greed, arrogance, delusion, and coercion?

Money is slavery by proxy, pure and simple.
If you don't want to listen to me, hear it on YouTube, from others...

Humanity still suffers from Stockholm syndrome and the obvious effects of addiction. It's like a junky thinking that the problem will be solved by finding a new dealer or a cleaner needle. In the end, you're still enriching those who control the drug source, from the shadows.

An enforced cold-turkey is coming quickly, and I suggest everyone start contemplating life, free of the drug (aka strong delusion) called money.

Even if you change the source of money, it'll still cause poverty, suffering, wars, and you'll remain in unending servitude, lifetime, after lifetime, after lifetime, in perpetuity. THe rich will still be rich, the greedy will still rise to the top of the system, and you'll still be duped slaves. Now is the time to break the cycle, while you have the ability to do so. What comes next will not be for your benefit, again.

I've already given you the opportunity and now unfolding global conditions are going to give you the incentive. I know I sound like a broken record sometimes, but junkies need intervention, before the poison kills them. Capiche?

Are you ready yet?

The Vatican and their secret society cohorts are your drug dealers. Why do you think they keep this such a closely guarded secret? They don't want the proxy-slaves to know who the master is. They know money is evil...

Peace and Wisdom...

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credit crunch?
Posted by: vade_dyset on Dec 29, 2008 6:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone who claims the credit crunch doesn't exist hasn't attempted to obtain a commercial construction loan in the SE during the last year. Not only have banks been denying new loans, but for six months or more, they've been rescinding loans previously approved. Layoffs are widespread and the construction industry is at a near standstill. The Paulson plan is a fraud, and a fitting finale to the last eight years.

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» RE: credit crunch? Posted by: dockboy
» RE: credit crunch?: you misinterpret Posted by: oregoncharles
This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
Who knows where the money goes?
Posted by: John Sawyer on Dec 29, 2008 6:41 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Where does the secretly disbursed TARP money go? Not just to banks, and to line a lot of undeserving pockets, but also to fund covert operations and black ops. They must be having a field day watching their secret accounts balloon like never before, much faster than with comparatively less lucrative businesses like arms and drug sales. It'll pay for lots of nasty stuff for years to come.

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ba
Posted by: mnstra on Dec 29, 2008 7:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I believe this post .Why not? Should we see as true and honest anything the Govt does? Doubtful.............

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"WE SHOULD" AGAIN, "WE SHOULD"
Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN on Dec 29, 2008 7:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Those two words are in every site in which there is a comment section.
Does anyone in their right mind actually believe we CAN do anything about whatever the INDIVIDUAL PEOPLE in government do?
We have no power over any of them due to all of those laws and instruments in place to protect the criminals such as cheney's handjob puppet, greenspan, ad infinitum.
How many can you name?
When any of us victims actually attempts to take action to protect ourselves, we are arrested, beaten, tazed, etc etc etc.

I'm older, have a small business and work mostly for cash so the bastards can't steal everything.

I have to get my snowblower going to clear the snow the goddamn city plowed back ONTO my property.
If I put it back in the street where THE CITY GOT IT TO PUT ON MY PROPERTY, the assholes will fine me.
Fuck 'em, I'll do it anyway.

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» RE: "WE SHOULD" AGAIN, "WE SHOULD" Posted by: monkeywrench
» RE: Raising the GDP Posted by: Sushi
» RE: "WE SHOULD" AGAIN, "WE SHOULD" Posted by: John Sawyer
Of course it's a scam
Posted by: sausage on Dec 29, 2008 7:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look at the timing of this thing. What better way to hamstring the in-coming administration than by looting the US Treasury.

I remember reading somewhere, Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson pulled the $700 billion figure for the Troubled Asset Relief Program-- or TARP, as in throwing a tarp over John Q. Public's head so he can't see the robbery of the people's money taking place in broad day-light--literally out his arse!

With the enormous deficits Obama's proposed economic recovery package will generate, the diminution of promised middle-class tax cuts may be inevitable. This will leave the door open for Republican-paid bloviators to fan the flames of the old "tax-and-spend-liberal" canard to herd "Reagan" Democrats back into the fold.

If Congressional Democrats do not vigorously investigate--and Barnie Frank has scheduled hearings on this matter to begin in a couple of weeks--this matter and turn over evidence of criminality to the Justice Department, and if an Obama DOJ does not indict, prosecute and convict any and all bad actors, including Paulson, in this imbroglio of stock-swapping, mergers, bonuses and general incompetence and mismanagement, this "bailout," of the financial industry, paves the way for a Republican return to political power.

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» RE: Of course it's a scam Posted by: daniel1982
» RE: Of course it's a scam Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Of course it's a scam Posted by: Old Uncle Dave
» RE: Of course it's a scam Posted by: Lauren
loans are still available even to those who don't deserve any
Posted by: sharonsylvie on Dec 29, 2008 8:12 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My credit rating is so bad it's probably a minus. Yet a few months ago I was approved for a loan to buy a used car whose payments amount to a third of my monthly Social Security check. How crazy is that? And I still get invites from Capital One every week!

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Of course this was a scam!!!!
Posted by: djnoll on Dec 29, 2008 8:26 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But a much scarier one than most people realize. Look first at the timing: Obama was beating the pants off of McCain/Palin and this was not suppose to happen according to Republican plans. Of course, Obama was not suppose to even be the candidate - they were counting on Hillary to split the party and hand the keys to the White House to the Republicans again.

Next, look at how McCain responded. It was a joke, and Palin was only fuel on the fire with her ignorance.

Then of course we have Reid and Pelosi, hardly people of great courage or political savvy when it comes to political history. They are and will continue to be cowards, unless they are turning on their own.

So, along comes the perfect plan for creating martial law under Bush and Cheney, which is what all the hoopla was about anyway. Under Directive 51, the President can declare martial law if there is an economic disaster that adversely affects the population. They even called Representatives and Senators, as well as, I suspect, directly threatened Reid and Pelosi from the beginning with exercising this option.

These morons-in-chief were planning for Americans to run the banks by broadcasting bank failures and spreading the panic about home value collapses, etc.. The media was completely taken in, but Americans, thank God, remained calm, listened to their bankers, stopped shopping finally after 7 years, and started paying attention. They saw who handled themselves well in a crisis, and even though they were ignored, demanded that the banks not be bailed out under the TARP.

So, now it finally comes to light that the President and the Cowardly Congress, with the help of the media, scammed us and gave away a trillion dollars of our money. If it were not what Bush wants, I would advocate taking to the streets and demanding our money back, but since I have no longing to live one day longer than necessary under Bush, I do not recommend doing anything that would allow him to declare martial law.

What I will do, though, is ask every citizen of this country who re-elected a Senator or a Congressperson who voted for TARP to demand a recall election, and for every citizen whose Senator was not up for re-election to plan to either recall or vote out in 2 years those people. As for Obama who voted for this bill, I hope, sir, that you are more capable of undoing the damage and waste caused by this blackmail you were subjected to during the campaign with your policies than Reid or Pelosi were in standing up against it.

As for the banks, let them fail. Do not give these thieves one more dime! Tell your Congressional delegation to vote NO on the additional $350 billion!!! The banks will survive, the economy will survive (although it will be much weaker than in the past), and we will recover. Let them be sued in federal courts for malfeasance and fraud by their customers and their stockholders. Let the CEOs do serious jail time in places that are not Club Feds, right alongside Paulsen, Bernanke, and all the others that let this happen through their arrogance and greed.

The local, community banks will be able to shoulder the burden and keep us all afloat. They have in the past and they will in the future. It is time to re-instate rules and regulations that limit banks to operating only within their home states and to break up these banking conglomerates again.

It is time for us as citizens to take back control of our personal finances and stop listening to snake oil salesmen with get rich quick schemes and start doing what we used to do best: build our own companies using hardwork and sweat and community support because we created jobs that way and true wealth built on things like goodwill and good American-made products. We can do it, and if that is what comes out of this scam, then we will be all the better for it.

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» Hahaha, I love it. Posted by: dockboy
» RE: Hahaha, I love it. Posted by: djnoll
The dems in congress sold it more than the republicans,
Posted by: sonofloud on Dec 29, 2008 9:09 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
they are far from innocent in this.

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» RE: No, Posted by: oregoncharles
Why No Mention of Obama?
Posted by: xallanmillerx on Dec 29, 2008 9:12 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The article mentions (targets) only the Bush administration. Recall that Obama and McCain were 100% united behind the initial bailout plan. Obama, who received more campaign contributions from investment banks and insurance companies than McCain, was instrumental in rallying support for the bailout. Without out his active support it wouldn't have gone through. Wny only target Bush? It has been, and is, a bipartisan (Democratic + Republican) bailout. We need an independent movement for economic justice that targets all politicians who are behind this.

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» RE: Yes. Posted by: oregoncharles
» Very simple Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Now there you're wrong. Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Now there you're wrong. Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Now there you're wrong. Posted by: PointMan
Robbery
Posted by: gandolfshep on Dec 29, 2008 9:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, Yes, Yes, this was the biggest scam and robbery in our history.

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Have any Theocratically EnRaptured Churches lost their shirts?
Posted by: deborah conner on Dec 29, 2008 9:44 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And with the money gone, Obama's reforms evaporate. Remember Bill Kristol on Colbert saying it was fine if the Dems took the White House in 2004 because they could be left holding-bag-when-shite-hits-fan? Well. Plan B, and all in time for the glorious End Time, 2012.

("Hail Sarah!" I see on Freeper blogs and websites. Go look.)

Charities and Universities have been hit hard by these suddenly discovered scams. Wonder. Have any Theocratically EnRaptured Churches lost their shirts?

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As any competent parasite will tell you
Posted by: GuitarBill on Dec 29, 2008 10:07 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As any competent parasite will tell you, it's not a good idea to kill the host.

Banks and financial institutions are extractive "industries"; they do not produce wealth; they produce debt--period.

Thus, banks and financial institutions are essentially parasites which feed off a collective host--the consumer.

Unfortunately, the Ivy League trained MBAs who run the banks and financial institutions are not intelligent enough to understand this fundamental relationship.

The fact is that the banks and financial institutions encouraged corporate policies that result in stagnant wages and diminished opportunity to find gainful employment, which is vital to the health of the host (ie., "the consumer").

Meanwhile the banks and financial institutions encouraged speculation in commodities and, especially, housing, which resulted in ever increasing property values.

The host (consumer) has finally perished as the result of dangerous imbalances created by the misguided policies mandated by the parasite (banks). Today, the host (consumer) is drowning in debt caused by shrinking wages, and ever rising commodity and housing costs.

That said, I find it very hard to believe that the banks and financial institutions implemented these destructive policies without knowledge where this all would lead, which begs the question: Why are the banks and financial institutions acting against their own best interests?

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» RE: You give them too much credit... Posted by: oregoncharles
How many Big Lies will the public stomach?!
Posted by: monkeywrench on Dec 29, 2008 10:08 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Apparently, as many as can be shoveled down their collective throats.

Big Lie 9/11 (terrorists alone brought down WTC and the Pentagon) was the setup: Since then we've had the Patriot Act, suspension of Habeas Corpus and Posse Comatatus, and a "terror, terror everywhere" propaganda barrage that has made all sorts of thievery undetectable. The owner of WTC made out like a bandit too, while NYC got rid of a money-losing eyesore for far less than what it would have cost to tear down that asbestos-riddled white elephant.

Big Lie Iraq, based upon Big Lie 9/11, allowed us to rape a middle-eastern country for its oil, give us a forward stronghold in the Middle East to grab even more oil, and produce a gold rush for Bush/Cheney-connected contractors.

Big Lie Afghanistan was supposed to pave the way for a pipeline to access Caspian Sea oil and gas fields. (Hasn't worked out so well but there's a bright spot: the public bought the bullsh*t about finding Bin Laden/Al Qaida, which Bush never really wanted to capture, thereby maintaining the "Boogy Man" so necessary to support other Big Lies.

Big Lie New Orleans: Failing to act quickly or responsibly after Katrina was to pave the way for forced urban development, to run poor blacks out of town and convert The Big Easy into The Big Theme Park for high rollers. So far so good.

Big Lie Credit Crunch is the last-chance pilfering of government coffers (correction: credit line. Our government is BORROWING those trillions!) by Bush/Cheney and their Pirates of Wall Street (longest running black comedy in NYC.) This is Bush/Cheney's version of stealing all of the china and silverware on their way out of the White House (along with the rugs, furniture and chandeliers.)

I'm sure that I'm leaving out many other Big Lies; after all, space is at a premium. But one fact is crystal clear: our government under Bush/Cheney has been morphed into nothing less than one of the largest criminal enterprises in human history.

What pains me to no end is that, apparently, the public-at-large does not understand this, or care. They think that their approaching poverty is their own fault or because of "market forces" ("free market" is yet another Big Lie). The only success that Bush can legitimately own, along with his circle-jerk mainstream media, is the systematic dumbing-down and brainwashing of the american people to believe this, or to be so confused that they don't know WHAT to believe. Mission accomplished.

At least, Obama isn't telling any Big Lies – like "My administration will prosecute these bums for their crimes." His style is to reconcile. In different times, this would be nice, but under current circumstances, it could lead to another Big Lie: that we can move on from this without consequences. Indeed, the consequences of the Bush Crime Family getting away unscathed will be many, and disastrous.

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» RE: Big Lies, One more: Posted by: channing
» HOPE will not manifest without Accountability Posted by: common intelligence
Baking advice
Posted by: ohb0b on Dec 29, 2008 10:29 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"You make bread from wheat flour, not wheat futures."

O. Henry

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minority agreement
Posted by: grkjr on Dec 29, 2008 10:53 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
as usual, a minority of americans are almost never fooled.. they were in the streets about the war, they were in the streets about presidential powers and torture... and they were saying "no" to the wall street bailouts. But as usual congress did not listen.. more than that, they know what they want (to reward the source of their campaign funds) and did it anyway over the voices of the citizens. As it only takes a very few lies to sell the majority of citizens.. on war, on torture, it is somewhat amazing that they appeared not to convince the majority of americans to bail wall street out.. so they (congress)did this on their own. The aritcle does think that if the credit cruch was real then the bail out was appropriate.. i find that still a sell job that most citizens will not swallow. with good reason.. we do not like to save industries that have made their money through fraud and other dubious means... let them fail, we will do just fine without buying for a while. The real stinger on this is that congress really has a hard time to bail out inefficient companies with unions like detroit auto makers but does not think twice about bailing out the budies on wall street wtih thier white collar crimes. When will we the people learn..?? after all, we send them back to congress in spite of how they vote against our interests. ps don't expect this new administration to stray far from this established track of business as usual.. we voted them back to do their bidding again.

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» RE: minority agreement Posted by: aussidawg
What's the service on a ten trillion dollar balloon mortgage?
Posted by: PaulK on Dec 29, 2008 11:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well, it's $500 billion a year that the government doesn't really have. That's to break even. At least until the balloon part comes due. Which happens at the discretion of foreign investors. Many of whom carry Chairman Mao's little red book around.

The good thing about blowing a trillion on a crooked premise is that it's only money, and we can always borrow or print up more. That's true, isn't it?

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Great article! SCOOP!
Posted by: Ghoulman on Dec 29, 2008 12:10 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a terrific article Josh. Nice work! I was not sure what I was hearing when Bush and Washington spoke about why they were giving banks billions of tax dollars. I wasn't sure mainly because they didn't say much at all!

But I knew the 'credit crunch' talk was out-of-the-blue. Thank you for pointing out how the Bush Junta has simply created yet another Straussian narrative (you know, a lie) to cover the facts and their actions.

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Corporate mythology and fiscal corruption
Posted by: goodsensecynic on Dec 29, 2008 12:31 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Despite ample evidence of corporate collusion and collaboration in projects from price-fixing to fraudulent financial transactions, there remains a defensive resistance in the press and the public to full-blown conspiracy theories.

Instead of sorting out who really killed JFK or what is actually behind commercial disasters from Enron to the current global “credit crisis,” opinion leaders prefer to brand as paranoid anyone who sees, at the very least, patterns of mutual interest within the convoluted network of power that is sometimes described as the military-industrial-congressional-financial-ideological complex, also known as the corporate ruling class.

It would therefore be both presumptuous and futile to lay out a theory in hopes of identifying exactly who is doing what to whom, with the result that ordinary people are hurting as seldom before in living memory.

I know of only two things to be said with confidence. First, from Socrates and his egregious “noble lie” to Goebbels and his vile “big lie,” ideologues have tried to persuade people to be complicit in their own oppression. After all, rulers benefit when the ruled believe that a patently unfair society is both just and necessary … it saves needless expenditures on secret police and torture chambers. Second, although no post-subsistence society has ever achieved equity (much less equality) in the distribution of wealth, the gap between rich and poor is growing in most late capitalist societies, and the middle class is being especially squeezed in the United States.

So, although I cannot claim to know the details of the various banking bail-outs and the plans for rescuing bloated and bull-headed manufacturing firms, I do know that, since about 1970, corporate profits have risen, productivity has increased, but the earnings of middle and working class people have — with occasional hills and valleys — generally flattened if not fallen.

Meanwhile, having luxuriated in an economy that produced huge profits and provided proportionately more “welfare” to corporations than to citizens, it seems that it is now time to put the marshmallows on the sweet potato pie. The “trillion dollar scam” may simply be the largest transfer of “taxpayers’ money” to those who seem to have lost control of the day-to-day operations of a system that served them splendidly for the past half-century and more.

Whether it is better to call contemporary elites a plutocracy or a kleptocracy is for others to decide. Whichever, citizens must now do their best to cast off the market mentality and the illusions it provides about how the economy works. We must also begin to demand some real changes. It is not enough to restore the economy to past glories, for it is fatally compromised by toxic policies and procedures.

Instead, those unwilling to think seriously about the benefits of a genuine social democracy might at least consider this simple step: let us separate savings banks from investment banks. The virtual economy of baseless credit (“derivatives” and the like) should be set apart from banks that deal with the real economy of savings, consumer loans and so on. Then the high-rollers and speculators would at least be kept away from honest, working people who would not be brought down with them when their criminal schemes go awry.

If the economy needs to be stimulated (and, absent establishing sane limits to growth, it probably does), tonic measures can only be taken from the bottom up. Anything else just adds to the pot of gold at the top – which can almost magically be transformed into a crock of something much more organic when it falls from great heights and lands heavily upon the heads of those already disadvantaged by the current system.

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But this time the Dems fucking blew it big time.
Posted by: maxpayne on Dec 29, 2008 12:39 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
At least on the war, most of the Democrats voted against it but on this bailout scam, most of them voted for it. Well, that makes both parties elitist. One party's for more war spending while the other one's for more doling money out to Wall $treet. Yep, we really need to pay more attention to local and state elections and give 3rd parties plenty of opportunities.

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Corporate myths and corruption
Posted by: goodsensecynic on Dec 29, 2008 12:46 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Despite ample evidence of corporate collusion and collaboration in projects from union-busting to price-fixing and fraudulent financial transactions, there remains a defensive resistance in the press and the public to full-blown conspiracy theories.

Instead of seeking to sort out who really killed JFK or what is actually behind commercial disasters from Enron to the current global “credit crisis,” opinion leaders prefer to brand as paranoid anyone who sees no more than patterns of mutual interest within the convoluted network of power that is often described as the military-industrial-congressional-financial-ideological complex (also known as the corporate ruling class).

So, it would be both presumptuous and futile to lay out a theory in hopes of identifying exactly who is doing what to whom, such that ordinary people are hurting as seldom before in living memory.

I know of only two things that can be said with confidence. First, from Socrates and his egregious “noble lie” to Goebbels and his vile “big lie,” ideologues have tried to persuade people to become complicit in their own oppression. After all, rulers benefit when the ruled believe that a patently unfair society is both just and necessary … it saves expenditures on secret police and torture chambers. Second, although no post-subsistence society has ever achieved equity (much less equality) in the distribution of wealth, the gap between rich and poor is growing in most late capitalist societies, and the middle class is being especially squeezed in the United States.

Although I can't claim to know the details of the various banking bail-outs and the plans for rescuing bloated and bull-headed manufacturers, I do know that, since about 1970, corporate profits have risen, productivity has increased, but the earnings of middle and working class people have — with occasional hills and valleys — generally flattened if not fallen.

Meanwhile, having luxuriated in an economy that produced huge profits and provided proportionately more “welfare” to corporations than to citizens, it seems that it is now time to put the marshmallows on the sweet potato pie. The “trillion dollar scam” may be the last and the largest transfer of “taxpayers’ money” to those who seem to have lost control of the day-to-day operations of a system that served them splendidly for the past half-century and much more.

Whether it is better to call contemporary elites a plutocracy or a kleptocracy is for others to decide. Whichever, citizens must now do their best to cast off the market mentality and the illusions it provides about how the economy works. We must also begin to demand some real changes. It is not enough to restore the economy to its past glories, for it is fatally compromised by toxic policies and procedures.

Instead, those of us unwilling to think seriously about the benefits of genuine social democracy might at least consider this simple step: let us separate savings banks from investment banks. The virtual economy of baseless credit (“derivatives” etc.) should be set apart from banks that deal with the real economy of savings, consumer loans and so on. Then the high-rollers and speculators would at least be kept away from honest, working people who would not be brought down with them when their criminal schemes go awry.

If the economy needs to be stimulated (and, absent sane limits to growth, it probably does), tonic measures can only be taken from the bottom up. Anything else just adds to the pot of gold at the top – which can almost magically be transformed into a crock of something more organic when it falls from great heights and lands heavily upon the heads of those already harmed by the current system.

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"...suspicion that has recently emerged"
Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com on Dec 29, 2008 1:51 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Recently?

To those outside the majority that is fooled all the time this suspicion wasn't recent.

Unfortunately you can fool all of the people some of the time and a majority of people all of the time.

Patriot Act, OBL (who still doesn't have 9/11 on his FBI poster), Iraq, the bailouts, telecom immunity, NAFTA, WTO, World Bank, free trade, etc, people are dumb.

Just get people afraid and a majority will do what you want.

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I have little simpathy...
Posted by: Pirate1 on Dec 29, 2008 2:34 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bush said credit was frozen... "Bush said?" and after all the lies of this administration you BELIEVED him and his buddies got billions that our grandkids (if there are any after the climate change really sets in) will still be paying back in their taxes. Fools deserve their fate. This is a nation of fools who no matter how contrary to their self interests a suggestion may be from a totally discredited president, will go along with what their TVs say is necessary. This period will be known as the one where the idea of thinking died in America in favor of being entertained and told what is so by axe grinding morons whose power lies with the status quo they uphold.

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» Whatcha wanna bet... Posted by: aussidawg
OK folks its more like this...
Posted by: yellow on Dec 29, 2008 3:50 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Minsky Moment has arrived. One of the biggest bubbles in history burst and actually did cause a tremendous house price deflation which is now in the process of leading, by all accounts, to a general price deflation is our stagnant economy. A genuine credit crunch and deep depression is the likely result if no fiscal stimulus arrives in sufficient measure and in a timely fashion.

The reason is clear. The chronic stagnation of the US economy has been so deep for so long that the twin stock market/housing market bubbles of the last decade and a half was required to sustain the consumption necessary to keep the US economy even barely afloat. The Minsky Moment, when cash hoarding by banks and liquidity preference constrains new lending is here and digging itself in deep. The time for action is now!!

Lest anyone seriously doubt the depth of the credit crisis, consider the following. New lending has dropped off and commercial banks are extending mostly existing underused credit lines available to long standing business customers. Between 2001 and 2007 a sudden surge in the use of untapped existing credit availability by business of 50% has occurred with internal revenues insufficient to sustain normal business operations. Furthermore, a surge in cash hoarding by banks has been noted within the commercial banking system. And because of the freeze up in the securities markets, outstanding loans, which formerly became securitized, now remain on commercial bank balance sheets giving the sudden appearance of an increase in new lending. In fact, what we are seeing is a decrease in securitization. Finally, most interbank lending is held to be trade in repurchase agreements which doesn't count as normal interbank lending activity.

The sad truth about late capitalism is that it is chronically stagnant. The reason is that it cycles up and down and doesn't reach equilibrium at full employment. This is because the opportunities for profitable investment, the core of the system's dynamic, decrease over time with each 8-12 year full cycle concentrating the economy and income distribution more and more. Effective consumer demand is constrained and thus investment, employment and growth. Government stimulus in the form of public investment is needed.

Historically, beginning with FDR, the US federal government has been reluctant to spend more than 14% of the GDP on non-defense, non-social security/medicare related new public investment as a stimulus. A stimulus roughly the size of 20% of the US GDP will be needed for ongoing success. It will also need to be invested in sustainable new sectors that can restructure our economy like health care and "green jobs" that save energy costs and create overall end use efficiencies. We only need the political will.

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» RE: OK folks its more like this... Posted by: richard0a37
remoran
Posted by: remoran on Dec 29, 2008 6:18 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What is money?
A medium of exchange.
What is US money?
US money is fiat (legal tender) backed by nothing. Money as debt is the operative term here.
How is money created?
The Fed creates it as needs warrant.
Who prints our money?
The Fed.
Is the Fed part of government?
No, it's a private cartel protected by government.
What is a scam
An illegal ripoff of our "money" orchestrated by the Fed and abetted by Congress and the secretary of the treasury.

Proof? Bloomberg is suing the Fed to find out where two trillion dollars have gone.

Any questions?

Addendum: Wake up and learn why things are the way they are by doing due diligence to discover what money is and how it's manipulated. As the X Files states. The truth is out there.

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» ? is What's a Fed. Reserve "Note"? Posted by: common intelligence
» RE: remoran Posted by: racetoinfinity
» RE:my link Posted by: racetoinfinity
The TARP Cake
Posted by: empirePie on Dec 29, 2008 6:32 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The TARP Cake

The greed is great gangsters
marked in by the Madoff pranksters
need renewal for their banks
since the levers of the levers that they shrank
are lookin kinda blank no thanks to Hank

Welcome to the home of the TARP family
starting the harken of Hank and the barkers of bank
for credit claims debt and debt is for let
and the let bets get sliced and diced
while the wants get enticed
to flimflam St where the bet is the beat
do you feel the heat?

Will the false flagged crisis be a la Hank?
Will credit be on the run or on the take?
Are there some Madoffs on the make?

Got cake?
Eat it.

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Straw Man
Posted by: owlsliveintrees on Dec 29, 2008 7:55 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nobody is peddling the idea that qualified people can't get loans. Go buy a house, go buy a car. You'll get a loan. Where did the author get this idea?

Of course is you completely misunderstand the situation you'll likely come to the conclusion that the bailout was a scam. It may be, and it may not be, but the idea that Mr and Mrs. Good Credit Rating can't get a loan to buy a house or a car is ridiculous. And NOBODY is arguing that. Nobody i've read or watched anyway.

Who's BUYING all the houses that are sold for 50% lower than they were two years ago? People who applied for, and received mortgages.

This "scam" talk ignores what the majority of economists say, that a couple months ago, the wheels were dangerously close to coming off. Now who knows what would have happened, but in no way do the continued lines of credit to credit-worthy consumers indicate that the bailout was somehow a "scam."

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» RE: quite right Lauren Posted by: Ghoulman
» NO, it's completely goof Posted by: owlsliveintrees
» RE: YES, it's completely 'A' goof... Posted by: owlsliveintrees
» RE: rubbish Posted by: Ghoulman
» RE: rubbish Posted by: owlsliveintrees
Straw Man
Posted by: owlsliveintrees on Dec 29, 2008 7:58 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nobody is peddling the idea that qualified people can't get loans. Go buy a house, go buy a car. You'll get a loan. Where did the author get this idea?

Of course is you completely misunderstand the situation you'll likely come to the conclusion that the bailout was a scam. It may be, and it may not be, but the idea that Mr and Mrs. Good Credit Rating can't get a loan to buy a house or a car is ridiculous. And NOBODY is arguing that. Nobody i've read or watched anyway.

Who's BUYING all the houses that are sold for 50% lower than they were two years ago? People who applied for, and received mortgages.

This "scam" talk ignores what the majority of economists say, that a couple months ago, the wheels were dangerously close to coming off. Now who knows what would have happened, but in no way do the continued lines of credit to credit-worthy consumers indicate that the bailout was somehow a "scam."

Why does Alternet constantly post straw man articles under the guise of contradicting orthodoxy.

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Following a Grand Tradition
Posted by: RickW on Dec 29, 2008 8:22 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Read Lewis Lapham's "Rivers of Babylon" in Harper's Magazine January 2009 edition........

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Surprise?
Posted by: wardropper on Dec 29, 2008 9:04 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why did I see this coming, when the "experts" didn't?
Because I mentally put myself in the place of a ruthless dimwit and thought, "What would I do if I were Bush?"
The rest was easy.

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The real credit crunch
Posted by: leafsong1 on Dec 30, 2008 2:04 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, qualified borrowers could still get loans. The problem was that large financial institutions, through their dabbling in legalized fraud, had become unqualified borrowers. There was no longer any reasonable expectation that they could repay the massive amounts they would need to cover their losses. The proper solution, of course, was to let these incompetent crooks and their backers go down the tubes. The solution that purveyors of such ponzi schemes as Reaganomics always resort to, of course, is to create another bubble, this one inflated by raw cash directly from the Treasury and the Fed. This is just tax cuts for the rich on steroids; they wanted an advance on future tax cuts for the rich and got it. As for the American people being punk'd, as usual, I resent being lumped in with that mass of idiots. But, as usual, nobody listened to me.

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Red-coats, Red-skirts ... what's the difference?
Posted by: talkville on Dec 31, 2008 4:35 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This bears all the signs of a very typical and standard Enclosure. Study the PRACTICE carefully citizens!! Mommy wants her wayward son back and all he's ACCUMULATED.

This time 'round, rather than red-coats, cannon and logistics, what was sent was culture, manners, sense and sensibility -- the Red Skirt. Don't lie! Everybody Bought it... on Credit of course!!

How genteel these new and up-and-coming new role-models, scripts, etiquettes and customs!! Oh, what Class!! It's Versailles! It's London! It's Paris!! Tea-parties and Salons, Courtiers and Courtesans, haute-cuisine and oh, such refined tastes!! Oh, these New Americans!! Swoon or be exiled!! Play or be cast out!! Pretend or be dismissed!! Act or be fired!.

What's all this got to do with the "credit crunch"?

Do not think me all too curmudgeonly and flippant on this score! Think about it slowly. As they say, put "two-and-two together" -- slowly, carefully, autonomously!

Mommy England wants the Wayward Son back! She's 'stewed in her resentful juices for nigh on 400 years now! Do not think her gentle, courteous or magnanimous!! She's sadistic, she wants revenge and she will get more than a couple of Pounds of Flesh, make no mistake!!

It soon will dawn on all of us who do not OWN (e.g. who are not BANKS): we are, formally, all commodities. A plant, an animal, a machine, or an instrument, all equivalent before the Law and UNDER it! Fascism- gentle or firm, but fascism nonetheless.

Credit crunch?? Hah!! Guess what, Citizen? They OWN us -- Land, Women, Men, Children and Plant and Equipment. Slavery and Servitude are the only HONEST descriptions of each of our conditions. ENCLOSURE!! Same as 1600's, same as 1700's, same as 1800's, same as 1900's, same as 2000. They do it very, very well, and they continue to do it, from time immemorial. They are a special kind of Creature: Cannibals, Slave-Traders, Stationary Nomads, Thieves, Pirates, Murderers.... but: PIOUS!! Well-Mannered!!, Polite and Civil!! They are the Cultured Parasites of History.

Credit Crunch??? Hah!! Credit CRUSH!!

Without a shot. On Credit, so-to-speak.

I am not, I will not, I cannot, be OWNED. If die I must, so be it. Liberation NOW!!

The generous and smiling happy 'win-win' friendly man and woman you've been used to, is calling in his or her chips. GOTCHA, citizen!! A hug? Nay! an Enclosure. Care? Nay! an Entrapment. Love? Nay! Control!! Intervention? Nay! Gang-rape.

Credit crunch?? Nay! Slavery, citizen!! Get used to it; teach it to your sons and your daughters. SOME are to grow to be Man or Woman; MOST are to grow to be COMMODITY. Use Value; Exchange Value. "Traditional" values....

That Action set forth and enumerated in the Declaration of Independence? Null! Void!. The Constitution of the United States of America? Strictly interpreted -- 1st: Property. Then, maybe and according to moods and temperaments, people. The United States of America is now a dolled up, dressed up, sex-worker and whore -- on sale to the highest bidder. Credit crunch? Hah! Enclosure and Divestiture. Dispossession and Enslavement. A 'world leader' with the ethics of a snake, a fox, a parasite...

It's just another Enclosure, citizen.

Choose your side.

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END THE FED NOW!
Posted by: vspoils on Jan 1, 2009 11:49 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes of course it was a scam, hello! Wake up! You just NOW figured it out? Jeez. NEWSFLASH!!! Revise that 8 point plan to one emphatic point.

END THE FED! The Fed is the root of our so-called financial crisis. It's only a crisis if you're on the wrong end of the printing press. The FED, a consortium of private banks, secretly owned because they won't divulge the list of shareholders, prints money out of thin air, thanks to the Creature from Jekyl Island, and then LENDS IT BACK TO US! Now how can we get a piece of that? THAT is the biggest scam in history. Central Banks all over the world have been copying this scheme since the Bank of England invented it. Our forefathers decried it and forbade it by writing it into the Constitution that only Congress shall have the power to coin money and regulate its value thereof. But as always, Congress eventually caved in for the last time. Three Presidents (Lincoln, Garfield, Kennedy) have been assassinated trying to abolish the Central banking system. Then they created the illegal IRS to enforce the usury payments known as income tax. Look it up, the 16th Amendment was never properly ratified. Income is defined as profit and wages are defined as a trade for your time. Watch 'America: Freedom to Fascism' on youtube. Also, a must see: 'Money Masters', the very best video on how money works and is created.

Always remember, the FED IS A PRIVATE BANK! It is not audited, not truly, it is answerable to no one. Congress just begs it for information, but these thieves just do what they want, they are under no legislative obligation to do anything. Their loyalty lies with the shareholders, which in large part are -- guess what -- foreign interests! Nice, huh?

Until we enforce Article II, Section 8 of the U.S. Constitution we will remain screwed for good, folks, so you better learn something about monetary policy and get marching. Otherwise, get your tin cups and warm slippers ready.

Those FEMA camps they've been building (over 800 at last count) aren't for the kiddies, they're for you and Grandma when the feces hit the fan and the food runs out. Military Commissions Act? We can have martial law for almost no reason, economic crisis will do nicely, thank you very much. And those 20-30k troops they're now training for "domestic security" aren't there for the refreshments, they're now your very own impersonal bodyguards. They will keep your body guarded behind that razor wire.

Read everything you can about debt-based currency. We need a return to sound money, backed by the full faith and credit of the USA (i.e. the people). I'm not a gold supporter, gold can be manipulated on the markets. Greenbacks are the way to go. Anyway, that debate is for after we decide how high to hang the bankers who got us into this mess.

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It is stunning
Posted by: Zeugitai on Jan 2, 2009 1:49 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...truly stunning to see how refractory to truth is the American public and how easily and quickly the public absorbs lies and bullshit and how tenaciously it clings to them.

In America, truth is anathema. Fantasy and lies in euphemisms and metaphors is all that people want to consume.

I can't think of a more insane empire in the history of the planet.

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I usually agree but...
Posted by: anok on Jan 2, 2009 2:21 PM   
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This time I don't really agree with the article's author. I see the emphasis on credible lending is made, and numbers are used to make the author's point - however there seems to be some neglect with regards to the definition of credible borrowers. The people who are now being denied, or whom have not bothered to try had previously been considered credible, reasonable, and credit worthy borrowers.

The lenders have tightened their grips on the lending process. Obviously, with a decline in employment, salaries, a rise in basic living costs etc..banks and other lenders are skittish about handing out more money that may or may not be repaid, on top of credit lines that are already under strain. That means that they have changed the parameters of what is, and isn't acceptable credit for borrowers. Which follows that those who had previously been able to borrow no longer can.

The fact that loan applications have decreased does not negate the changes being made. Many people are being shut out before even getting to the application process, and, many people are simply trying to refinance or negotiate loan terms - none of which requires an application right off the bat. These people are being denied left and right. try renegotiating your rates or limits with your credit card company - a few years ago solid customers could do that no problem. Now companies like Amex are decreasing their customers credit limits based on their shopping - not credit - habits, and refusing to lower or renegotiate percentage rates. Many other cards and mortgage companies are doing the same.

No, it's not a "scam". The bailout was a poor decision, but not a scam.

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Nationalize these corporate criminals
Posted by: maxsmart on Jan 2, 2009 2:56 PM   
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The banks have become credit card loan sharks and have been giveing mortgages hoping the owners could be foreclosed on and the homes resold in a rising market. They are a threat to our national security. They have been raping and pillaging our country. Thye have no ethics except the greed to get as much as they can for themselves.

We are all interdependent, economically and all other ways and we need an economic system that does not prey on others to build their glass castles. No one profits from someone else's pain.

We share a tiny jewel of life orbiting our only begotten Sun and no one appreciates it or how much we depend on each other.

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I WANT TO PAY MORE TAXES
Posted by: ds1st on Jan 3, 2009 8:49 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I want to pay more taxes. This way the govenrment can tell us what we can and should not do.

Like driving a car. The govenrment must be able to say who can and can't own cars.

Like owning a gun. The govenrment must be able to say who can and can't own a gun.

I want a big federal, state and local govenrment telling me how to be human.

Yea for the liberals and children!

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Credit Crunch?
Posted by: Urgelt on Jan 4, 2009 1:39 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From the point of view of the suppliers of credit, there is a big problem.

Not only are financial institutions overextended on bad loans to uncreditworthy borrowers. Not only are probably illegal "faux insurance" credit swaps putting the financial institutions which sold them into jeopardy. Not only are Wall Street ponzi schemes coming crashing down around their ears, exposed by the economic downturn. Demand for new credit is just plain drying up. So it's a perfect storm in the financial industry. All of the cash cows they exploited so successfully during the real estate bubble have stopped producing as much milk.

The solution to this "crisis" as conceived by the Wall Street titans was another chapter in disaster capitalism. They'd get profit by scaring the bejesus out of taxpayers and getting them to hand over government money. Preferably without strings.

The bailout is the ultimate in influence-peddling. At no point in our history has so much wealth been transferred from ordinary Americans directly into the pockets of the wealthy for so little gain to the general population.

It could never have happened with an uncorrupted Congress and Administration.

Author Tad Williams, in his breezy "Otherworld" series, playfully presents readers with a near-future vision of America in which the Senate has become the Industrial Senate, with seats awarded to major corporations rather than states. It's amusing when it springs from Williams' pen, not so funny when we confront it in truth.

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The Fed is a Giant Ponzi Scheme
Posted by: ron heringhauser on Jan 4, 2009 1:50 PM   
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The Federal Reserve (foreign-private banking cartel) has been running a ponzi scheme on the American taxpayers since 1913. They create money out of thin air, then charge us interest for the privalege. We have been scammed for almost a hundred years; time to take our government and our monetary system back!

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Where's the credit?
Posted by: dealmeinfo2 on Jan 6, 2009 2:35 PM   
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The credit has only frozen up for people with crappy credit or are high risk. I think they are making it out to be a lot worst then it is.


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Minnesota property preservation

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