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Why Was Cheney So Quick to Admit He's a War Criminal?

By Marjorie Cohn, AlterNet. Posted December 20, 2008.


Cheney confessed because he thinks either Bush will pardon him or that Obama won't prosecute him -- but the law would forbid both approaches.

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Dick Cheney has publicly confessed to ordering war crimes. Asked about waterboarding in an ABC News interview, Cheney replied, "I was aware of the program, certainly, and involved in helping get the process cleared." He also said he still believes waterboarding was an appropriate method to use on terrorism suspects. CIA Director Michael Hayden confirmed that the agency waterboarded three al-Qaida suspects in 2002 and 2003.

U.S. courts have long held that waterboarding, where water is poured into someone's nose and mouth until he nearly drowns, constitutes torture. Our federal War Crimes Act defines torture as a war crime punishable by life imprisonment or even the death penalty if the victim dies.

Under the doctrine of command responsibility, enshrined in U.S. law, commanders all the way up the chain of command, to the commander in chief, can be held liable for war crimes, if they knew or should have known their subordinates would commit them and they did nothing to stop or prevent it.

Why is Cheney so sanguine about admitting he is a war criminal? Because he's confident that either President Bush will preemptively pardon him or President-elect Obama won't prosecute him.

Both of those courses of action would be illegal.

First, a president cannot immunize himself or his subordinates for committing crimes that he himself authorized. On Feb. 7, 2002, Bush signed a memo erroneously stating that the Geneva Conventions, which require humane treatment, did not apply to al-Qaida and the Taliban. But the Supreme Court made clear that Geneva protects all prisoners. Bush also admitted that he approved of high-level meetings where waterboarding was authorized by Cheney, Condoleezza Rice, John Ashcroft, Colin Powell, Donald Rumsfeld and George Tenet.

Attorney General Michael Mukasey says there's no need for Bush to issue blanket pardons since there is no evidence that anyone developed the policies "for any reason other than to protect the security in the country and in the belief that he or she was doing something lawful." But noble motives are not defenses to the commission of crimes.

Lt. Gen. Antonio Taguba, who investigated the Abu Ghraib scandal, said, "There is no longer any doubt as to whether the current administration has committed war crimes. The only question that remains to be answered is whether those who ordered the use of torture will be held to account."

Second, the Constitution requires President Obama to faithfully execute the laws. That means prosecuting lawbreakers. When the United States ratified the Geneva Conventions and the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment, thereby making them part of U.S. law, we agreed to prosecute those who violate their prohibitions.


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Marjorie Cohn is a professor at Thomas Jefferson School of Law and president of the National Lawyers Guild.  She is the author of Cowboy Republic: Six Ways the Bush Gang Has Defied the Law and co-author of Rules of Disengagement: The Politics and Honor of Military Dissent (with Kathleen Gilberd), which will be published this winter by PoliPointPress.  Her articles are archived at www.marjoriecohn.com

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Three reasons
Posted by: EinMD on Dec 20, 2008 1:02 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. He knows the Democrats don't have the spine to do anything about it.

2. He's hoping that if he asserts his dominance enough no one will doubt him and begin prosecution.

3. The "Hague Invasion Act" aka American Service members' Protection Act states that we will use any means necessary against any country that attempts to hold anyone responsible for war crimes.

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Indulge tiny me just a tad of Speculation of my own:
Posted by: talkville on Dec 20, 2008 1:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
About Cheney:

Hitler: Cheney and he would have gotten along admirably; Adolf would have swooned maybe.

Nietzsche: One might have heard him laughing a block away! A slave Hero!!

Lenin: made a note to include him perhaps in those polemics about 'infantile conditions'.

Mussolini: A great friend, a great advisor.

Bismark: Who?

Napoleon: "OK, he can be invited to the coronation".

Stalin: Brilliant! Admirable! Great! (Make note: kill him.)

Cheney: "So?"

One thing seems sure though: he practices well what very few know he preaches. Like Albright and the rest of them, any blood, guts, torn limbs, men, women, children left in this historical plane of Immanence is "worth it". No regrets.

What single organizing principle might have driven him through all this though? Anger? Revenge? Righteousness? Resentment?

Who knows? Like an Arendt Himmler, here's a person at the same time banal and endlessly the object of endless deductions.

Smirking his way to a comfy retirement and some warm hugs and toddies with family and friends.

Actual, particular, evidence and example of dead living. Not so much Cheney commits Crime as: Crime commits Cheney.

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» RE: Nietzsche wouldn't be laughing Posted by: greenknight
Hank George
Posted by: hankgeorge on Dec 20, 2008 3:06 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I doubt these war criminals will be prosecuted in our country. And if any of the top dogs were, they would be pardoned. However, they are not immune to prosecution elsewhere and this may be our only hope of justice. How vigorously would Obama intervene if Cheney or Rummie were arrested outside the country and tried at the Hague? That is the intriguing question. I think the perps know this is a risk they will have the rest of their lives. Good. At least they will have this fear haunting them.

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» RE: Hank George Posted by: jbpazz
» RE: Hank George Posted by: aussidawg
» PRECISELY Posted by: charlieparisek
» RE: Hank George Posted by: Revolutionary (Direct) Democracy
Barney Frank said of Newt Gingrich, he doesn't have ideas. He has ideas of how nice
Posted by: Suzon on Dec 20, 2008 3:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
it would be to have ideas...He's operating on the level of abstraction and generality.

Is there an assumption here that Cheney and his co-conspirators actually grasp the reality of torture? If they knew what they were doing, how could they actually proceed?

However, the law does recognize recklessness--that people would have known or should have known that their actions would bring about human suffering.

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Judge them not that they have morals like us, they do not
Posted by: warrior woman on Dec 20, 2008 3:51 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We judge them as though they think or act like us, they don't. We can not hold these immoral thugs to standards that we hold because they are not like us. They are sociopaths intent upon world dominion as is carefully and precisely laid out in their "Rebuilding America's Defenses" document.

If the Obama administration (as Clinton's did before with the Iran/Contra scandal) does not prosecute, this shows America and the world that American leaders are not subject to our laws, rather they are above them. It is not that it should be so, it is reality, however.

They could "arrest" them and hold them in detention until such time they get around to advising them of their crimes, allowing them access to attorney's and perhaps showing them or the lawyers the evidence against them as the Bush administration has shown suspected terrorists under the Military Commissions Act. The likelihood is they won't.

Perhaps they could start with an investigation of 9/11. I ask one question in that regard: what is the mathematical probability of 3 buildings perfectly imploding when 2 are struck by airplanes and the 3rd is not? All being built to sustain impacts from airplanes and having, in fact, survived previous attempts.

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mz anony
Posted by: miz on Dec 20, 2008 4:01 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Passage of the (patoohey!) so-called Patriot's Act was treasonous, so not only are Cheney, Bushbaby, Rice and Rumsfeld guilty of the highest act of abomination in the U.S., but so is all of Congress guilty of treason as well. Therefore, the only punishment worthy of their coup d'etat of America is the following: Imprisonment for Bushbaby, Cheney, Rice and Rumsfeld for the rest of their natural lives in Gitmo with revocation of their citizenship, seizure of all holdings (trusts, offshore banking), forbidden to ever see family or friends till the day they die and no legal representation forever - ALL THINGS BUSHBABY INTENDED FOR ANY AMERICAN CITIZEN WHO WAS AGAINST HIM. As for a contemptibly COWARDLY CONGRESS, force every member who voted for the Patriot Act to spend 1 month a year at Gitmo imprisoned, to contemplate their act of treason and how easily they are getting off on the wrath of the American people. Make it illegal for any American corporation going into any nation we declare war on or participate in destroying - to profit by reconstruction in any way whatsoever. QUESTION (true or false): Does the word "federal" in Federal Reserve imply the federal government? If you do not know the answer to this question, even if you have a degree in history or accounting, YOU KNOW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING OF IMPORT ABOUT YOUR NATION.

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» RE: mz anony Posted by: rimchamp77
» RE: mz anony Posted by: kungfuma
» RE: mz anony Posted by: lenioui
APPOINT AND PROSECUTE
Posted by: Michel on Dec 20, 2008 4:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is an issue that MUST be dealt with. We MUST move forward and prosecute. The outgoing admistration felt as if they could changed laws as they saw fit. Since when is the constitution left open to interpretation...?

Lt. Gen. Antonio Taguba, who investigated the Abu Ghraib scandal, said, "There is no longer any doubt as to whether the current administration has committed war crimes. The only question that remains to be answered is whether those who ordered the use of torture will be held to account."

In my mind there is no question. Bush and Cheney willfully changed the language of the law to make it legal for them to do something that in the past we have put people to death for.

Torture is wrong. It is illegal and immoral. They should not be given a pass on this one.

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» RE: APPOINT AND PROSECUTE Posted by: Lauren
» RE: APPOINT AND PROSECUTE Posted by: Michel
» RE: This is the pattern Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: This is the pattern Posted by: Michel
Grand father in "laws" and Methods
Posted by: Purple Girl on Dec 20, 2008 4:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A taste of Your on medicine DICK?
Don't close Gitmo, just release the current prisoners so the REAL criminals can be Housed for indefinite periods (whenever we FEEL like getting around to Prosecuting them).
Get DICK is own Board, and automatic 'Flash Dance' shower...Feel the 'Surge'?
Theres men claim they allowed this to save lives.They have jeporadized and allowed the slaughter of thousands if not millions of people...I think they Qualify for their own Standards of War Criminal Treatment.
Just make sure DICKs Batteries are in good working order, we wouldn't want his Pace Maker to Stop, In fact lets insert a back up just to assure DICK sticks around long enough to have some fun.
Lest We forget that Cheney's "So" was a confession that the did NOT work for US..Thus Treason. And since 'Blood for Oil' has been a common phrase.. Add Crimes Against Humanity to this Oilman list of High Crimes.

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It's even worse than all that.
Posted by: Longdream on Dec 20, 2008 5:12 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think he knows that we can't afford to prosecute them.

To do so would tie up Congress and the Justice Department for years, and siphon the nation's attention from where it belongs: correcting the aftermath of the Bush regime, and helping people who have been damaged in its wake.

If you don't remember Watergate, then do you remember Lewinsky, the blue dress, the big blue book of porn with the transcript of testimony, the cigar? Do you remember Ken Star's smirk, and the fact that Congress couldn't pass wind for the years that it all went on?

It's not that these criminals don't deserve prosecution. They're even worse criminals for taking advantage of the situation by openly admitting, even flaunting, their misdeeds. They also are world-famous for defying the law, refusing subpoenas, fleeing in the face of indictment and generally thumbing their noses at enforcement. Bringing them to any kind of justice would take three times as long as it would for normal felons.

All of this is weak and piss-poor, I know. But I think it's the situation we're facing, and I know they're laughing in our faces because of it.

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» RE: It's even worse than all that. Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Pessimism.... Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: why bother with justice Posted by: sonofloud
» RE: Patrick Fitzgerald Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Patrick Fitzgerald Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Patrick Fitzgerald Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Patrick Fitzgerald Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Patrick Fitzgerald Posted by: Julian
» RE: It's even worse than all that. - BS Posted by: left_libertarian
Prosecute or eventually others will
Posted by: phindrup on Dec 20, 2008 5:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If the new administration does not initiate proceedings against Bush and his cohorts, then nothing that they do will improve the image of the US worldwide.
While there is no doubt that for the immediate future there is little chance of outside repercussions, as the coming depression engulfs the world and the US sinks into the bottomless financial pit other countries will increasingly be in a position to apply pressure re the myriad wrongs committed by the US over the years. Eventually the imperative of survival will far outweigh the US’s blind pride and belief that none of their presidents ought ever face a war crimes tribunal.
‘American’s’ cannot expect sympathy from any country anywhere in the world. For too long the US threw its weight around ruthlessly gutting other countries economies for its own benefit.
Memories of such treatment lingers long, and anything that can be used to demean and belittle the US, will be used.
The wheel is turning, already beyond top dead centre and as the US fades into obscurity all of those who suffered from the brutality, the overweening arrogance will demand the right to give yet another turn of the screw.
The people of the US have no one the blame but themselves.

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Fascism
Posted by: lightinmyhands on Dec 20, 2008 5:46 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of course Obama isn't going to prosecute the war criminals of the departing administration, he's simply the other side of the same coin. We are living in a society that is closing down, and the road to fascism is paved with subversion of the rule of law.

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» RE: Fascism Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Fascism Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Fascism Posted by: tony12000
The Bush argument for torture:
Posted by: surfreality on Dec 20, 2008 5:56 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Because we are afraid we reserve the right to act like savages.

That's pretty much it in a nutshell. Torture has always been a policy based on fear. In fact, it can be credibly argued that the entire American foriegn policy of the last 8 years has been based on fear. Fear begets more fear which results in more violence. Al Qaeda understands this and hence is always attempting to provoke us into further savagery. This is how Al Qaeda recruits. As long as America holds to this approach Al Qaeda gains strength and America becomes a more desirable target.

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RE: DIctator Bush
Posted by: Lauren on Dec 20, 2008 7:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thus admitting they were both guilty of war crimes. The pardon would be worthless.

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Dictator Bush? You cannot be serious
Posted by: johnorford on Dec 20, 2008 6:00 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dictator? How could Bush dictate to anyone? His weak and drink-addled brain is just not up to comprehending the sophistication of a Presidency. We don't disagree much ClusterAble, I'm sure, but unless someone unearths facts to the contrary, I cannot believe Bush runs the USA.

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Truth hiding in plain sight
Posted by: 2dogarage on Dec 20, 2008 6:48 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think Cheney's hubris stems from the knowledge that most people can't see what is right in front of their noses.

To some of us 9/11 was an extreme case of the power to get people to suspend their disbelief in the name of patriotism. Heck, the laws of physics were changed for the "official" conspiracy theory, what does he have to fear?

This administration lied to the American people to justify invading Iraq, picked up citizens of sovereign countries on their own soil and held them indefinitely while torturing them in clear violation of international law, withheld documents requested by subpoena...the list goes on ad nauseam, no-bid contracts for Halliburton etc. I say again, what does he have to fear? The American people? The Democrats in Congress? Don't make me get milk all over my computer screen.

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» RE: Truth hiding in plain sight Posted by: weathered
Here is an understatement,
Posted by: douglashoyt on Dec 20, 2008 7:06 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and obvious:

Failure to prosecute any administration for crimes of any sort sets an example of contempt for the laws.

This lack of holding criminal behavior responsible started long ago with the lack of prosecution of Richard M. Nixon.

Merry Christmas

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» RE: Here is an understatement, Posted by: weathered
» RE: Here is an understatement, Posted by: bluepilgrim
» RE: Here is an understatement, Posted by: gary_7vn
THE HIGH COST OF KEEPING QUIET
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Dec 20, 2008 7:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Letting these people go gently into the night would be foolish. We are on the brink of becoming a third world nation and we know why. It's true that prosecuting the administration would be messy, but if we don't we're saying it's OK. The historians will write about this for at least a hundred years and future generations are entitled to know what went wrong. How the greatest nation in the world failed. There are countless people on the periphery who were part of all the secrecy that bacame the way the country was run. Alot of them are people we like. It would be a high risk undertaking. But to avoid it in the name of not disrupting the country would be wrong. For 8 years, people have kept their mouths shut because it's easier. No one wants their job and prestige on the line. But there is no other way. There will be sacrificial lambs, no doubt but we owe it to ouselves and future generations. We can't allow the Bush administration to go unpunished . True, the Republican party destroyed itself, but they took the rest of us with them. Now, we'd like to take our country back. It's like a major restoration project. Looks like hell while it's going on, but the results are always worth the trouble.

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This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
» RE: Barry, my bruddah. Posted by: Longdream
Because he has nothing to fear, who's going to impeach
Posted by: sonofloud on Dec 20, 2008 7:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
him?
Nancy "impeachment is off the table" Pelosi?

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» RE: Speak English? Posted by: Longdream
Turn them over to the Hague
Posted by: JSquercia on Dec 20, 2008 8:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We should turn them over to the hague for trial as war Criminals . Yes I know the cahnces of that are slim and NONE but it would serve Justice

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» Turn them over to the Hague? Posted by: johnorford
Justice Denied
Posted by: QQOblivion on Dec 20, 2008 8:29 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The right-wingers and so-called "moderates" (of both major political parties) laugh at us on the "Looney Far Left" who dare ask for justice.
To the right-wingers and so-called moderates, the REAL criminal was Bill Clinton.

I'm not kidding, this is what most Americans really believe.

The call for prosecution of war-crimes not only has to pass through the gauntlet of presidential pardons and Democratic politicians' inaction, but it also has to pass through the gauntlet of indifference from the American people, from the US "liberal" media, and especially from almost all of America's leaders too.

I don't know how to make the idea of justice mainstream and not just some way-out there hippy pinko concept, but maybe someone else does know how.

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just arrogance
Posted by: GregH on Dec 20, 2008 9:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Cheney is just showing his contempt. "I did it - no need for congressional hearing to find the culprit. No need for a theater for posturing and expressions of moral indignation. I did it and the congressional leadership helped - make something of it".

Maybe the Europeans will try them all in absentia

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Don Quixote
Posted by: Don Quixote on Dec 20, 2008 9:37 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Both parties have agreed long ago not to hold each other accountable for anything. Can't you understand and accept that you live under a one-party system disguised as democracy?

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» RE: Don Quixote Posted by: weathered
» RE: Yes! Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Yes! Posted by: weathered
» tell it. Posted by: babka
» RE: Don Quixote Posted by: tony12000
Obama is part of the gang that made torture 'legal' and Cheney knows it, even if most liberals don't
Posted by: logansafi on Dec 20, 2008 9:38 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Cheney's arrogance comes from the simple fact that it was not Republicans alone that instituted US government torture of POWs. It was the Democrats who most of alternet's readers continue to vote for.

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Will Justice Be Served?
Posted by: EvilPoet on Dec 20, 2008 9:53 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
LOL I won't hold my breath. All I can say is: Obama acts very, very strange for someone who supposedly knows all about the Constitution.

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Be afraid. Be very afraid.
Posted by: babka on Dec 20, 2008 10:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.velvetrevolution.us/

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» RE: Yes. Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: Be afraid. Be very afraid. Posted by: weathered
» Where's the body and plane? Posted by: common intelligence
Why Was Cheney So Quick to Admit He's a War Criminal?
Posted by: GuitarBill on Dec 20, 2008 11:35 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Because Cheney has a document, written by John Yoo, that essentially states that Cheney and Bush are not guilty of war crimes.

Yoo anticipated that the Bush administration's torture policy and his own memorandums might lead to prosecution. Yoo composed one legal memorandum which addressed this specific issue. The memorandum defined a legal strategy for criminal defense for hypothetical U.S. government defendants against hypothetical charges of crimes of torture and crimes against humanity.

In other words, Cheney is using Yoo's opinion as "law". [Golly, where have we seen this before? NRA anyone?]

Cheney literally believes that John Yoo's silly opinion will shield him from war crimes prosecution.

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Shoes
Posted by: opmoc on Dec 20, 2008 11:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Shoeting_Bush

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He's admitted it publically...good enough
Posted by: jeffrey7 on Dec 20, 2008 12:13 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He stepped up,spoke the truth, now let's all marxch up to his dumb ass and send him packing to Gitmo! If it was broadcast media,praise the Lord we don't need a trial or anything. This fool has stuck us head in the noose and is daring us to kick out the chair. Let's do it!!!
CITIZEN'S ARREST APPLIES TO ALL CRIMINALS.
He confessed,all we need to do is DO IT!!

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» RE: Two little words: Posted by: oregoncharles
What words can describe
Posted by: willymack on Dec 20, 2008 12:24 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He, who's descended into the abyssal depths of evil and depravity, has the temerity to describe-nay, BRAG-about it on national TV, no less.He's either crazy or knows for certain he has a "get out of jail free" card. To these I say PROSECUTE THE MOTHERFUCKER! Sorry about the language; I meant to say HANG THE MOTHERFUCKER! There,I feel better, now.

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» RE: What words can describe Posted by: Lauren
» No willymack Posted by: johnorford
Cheney is SAFE......
Posted by: biwee on Dec 20, 2008 1:08 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Cheney has NO fear of prosecution because, if he is investigated and charged, then all the Zionists that pushed this illegal and unnecessary war of choice for Israel into being must also be investigated and charged. That will NOT happen. Obama is a SLAVE to the very same people who brought the USA this unnecessary war in Iraq. Just ask Perle, Wolfowitz, Feith, Kristol, Krauthammer, Judith Miller, and David Addington.

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guilty until proven wealthy
Posted by: scottfree on Dec 20, 2008 1:48 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
please, let's disprove this shabby premise. Though the amount of empty chairs when the dust settles will shock, the house needs a cleanin'.

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I think he will skate
Posted by: Law Student409 on Dec 20, 2008 3:24 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I asked our Constitutional Law prof about this and he stated that the power to pardon was absolute in the Constitution (Article 2), and the only question that might arise would be if "the man" tried to pardon himself...

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» RE: I think he will skate Posted by: willymack
the court of public opinion has exonerated cheney...
Posted by: Annapurna1 on Dec 20, 2008 3:53 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
unfortunately..i dont have a link.. but i remember a CNN/rasmussen poll which showed 59% of americans supported bu$hcos' torture policy.. including many that thought it didnt go far enough...

the majority isnt always right to be sure..and in this case i fully agree that bu$hco should be charged with war crimes violations...but that would be political suicide when 59% of the voters are on bu$cos' side...

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Watercolors
Posted by: Watercolors on Dec 20, 2008 5:17 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While torture is barbaric and unjustifiable, not to mention illegal, and doesn't get the desired results, the central issue here is that suspected terrorism does not equal terrorism. Suspicion is not justification for violation of our most basic civil liberty -- the right to be presumed innocent until found guilty by our peers, the right to remain silent, and the right to legal representation. As long as our legal system is corrupted by the Patriot Act, you and I, and anyone we know, can be whisked from our homes without so much as a phone call to our loved ones, incarcerated, and subjected to terrifying treatment -- just because we've annoyed someone who has the power to arouse suspicion. This is domestic terrorism.

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Aiming too high?
Posted by: Julian on Dec 20, 2008 8:18 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Legalism won't bring justice home to ringleaders with state power. Nor will replacement in power by others of broadly the same ilk as we are seeing in the USA lead to effective trials and fitting penalties. Only overthrow in war or revolution puts justice (fleetingly) on the table. Musso and Ceaucescu received justice because there were no legal teams involved and there was on-the-ground political will to exact justice before the lawyers got into the act.

The legal stratagem always exploited by ringleaders' lawyers, when they have exhausted the irrelevant jurisdictional arguments, is the denial of a chain leading from the defendants to the deeds.

The answer is maybe to remember that first responsibility for a crime belongs to the mongrel who actually commits it. Somebody tortured those prisoners. Somebody bundled other captives into planes bound for foreign torture centres. These creatures need outing on a permanent basis (how about a Crimewatch website which also offers them space to present a defence or denial?). Persistent outing can bring demands to put them on trial for crimes from which, unlike the ringleaders, they can't distance themselves. This has been happening - ridiculously late - for some Nazi and collaborationist war criminals identified where they have later settled such as in the USA.

The criminals will undoubtedly use the excuse "I was obeying orders", "I was doing my duty", "We believed we were doing right" etc. Hogwash, rightly brushed aside when a tiny number of Nazi criminals were tried after the war.

A stronger focus on those who actually committed these crimes, with efforts to identify them and confirm the identifications being an organisational task open to those without state power, may get the criminals to inculpate those next up the ladder that leads finally to the Dick Cheneys and Donald Rumsfelds. More to the point, it can give pause to anyone thinking about committing the same crimes. Disgrace alone is a powerful weapon. Who'd want to date a torturer, or put one in charge of children?

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mistake not to prosecute
Posted by: samosamo on Dec 20, 2008 11:21 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It will be a bigger mistake to NOT prosecute w & dick and their cabal for their crimes which would legitimize their actions. Then what credibility would the US have? The world is watching, the crimes against humanity in the name of imperialism(money) demands that the current administration be held accountable and go to court for their crimes. There are far too many commentaries trying to excuse these clowns because of expense, tying up congress in investigations and any other part of government function to control and stop this kind of wanton criminal acts for money. Congress has done nothing and it is about time for them to demonstrate to the people that they will carry out their duties described in the contsitution to protect this democracy if it isn't too late. And if they don't, the people better have plan c,d & f ready to handle this crap.

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YOU ARE INVITED
Posted by: Jonalist on Dec 21, 2008 4:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For the next 365 days over the course of the next four year term of President following the inauguration ceremonial the United States Government will recess until the next political election. There will be no news coverage and no interventions regarding military concerns which have been certified and documented as protecting and defending the United States of America. No augmentation for associations which are negative to the authority of the United States Government operations or activities of the past or near future will be endorsed or allowed, any persons creating a nuisance within any state of the United States of America shall be arrested and face trial by jury in the same day following their arrest and can expect a 90-day term of incarceration for violating the peace. In response to this order each state shall have a period of 90-days to get state government in order and once in order that shall be frozen. In a effort to cut energy and overhead costs certain programs will be allowed to operate one day a week, during this time there will be a increase of medical benefits to cover DNA Testing costs for every citizen of the United States and a DNA Vault Bank shall be endorsed and maintained from the beginning of this period through eternity, Records shall be computer documented and accessible by Law Enforcement and all Legal Authority as set forth in the doctrine policy including if necessary foreign investigations and legal authorities outside the United States of America when DNA is required to analyze in comparison to a known individual suspected of a crime, no recourse of action is required from this day forward in this automated activity. As of this day I do hereby set my hand and seal of the United States Government endorsing all of the above and close this issue of the remaining terms of office.

Is this the way you want change to affect America and the world? Could you live with government right now or what is the problem you have with government. This is no game, do you wish a rules and requirements publication issued to each American citizen? Are you ready for New Government. It is reliable and as honest as it can be documented, there is no second best solution, the People of The United States Government are the benefactors. Since when could a citizen of America write a law? How long shall you wait to be heard, as a socialist intervention wouldn't it be nice to be able to video a presentation of your grievance and have it reviewed by government officials each week and placed on a agenda to endorse a law or change in government? Can government create a commission for endorsing a law which citizens compose? Only 90-days is the limitation to make up you mind after that everything will be documented and published, did you want to have the ability after 90-days to make changes or not, speak up.

The Kingdom, would be a eye awakening. Nations wishing to become a part of 'The Kingdom' would be given a priority and this sets aside Democracy which they may wish to be partialized in. What this means is that they do not endorse Democracy but that they will not oppose it either so it can exist in their nations governmental operations and there be no opposition against it existing.

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With all due respect....
Posted by: tony12000 on Dec 21, 2008 8:35 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First, let me state that I believe Cheney, Rumsfeld, et al are purely immoral and disgusting characters and that they probably violated the law (starting with the war itself). But the constitution does not MANDATE that the executive branch prosecute someone who has violated the law. The Attorney General has prosecutorial discretion, and I sincerely believe that Obama the "everyone has a place at the table" president will give torturers a place at the table as well. Our Lord and Savior will forgive them just as he forgave Lieberman.

As much as I despise Bush's posse, I do believe the Left should embrace prosecutorial discretion. This allows prosecutors to decline to bring criminal charges in cases where justice might actually require that the law not strictly apply (e.g., women killing violent abusers, two teenagers having sex which constitutes statutory rape, person commits a crime but arrested only due to racial profiling, etc).

Finally, I agree that waterboarding MUST constitute torture under international and domestic law. Because the law is broadly stated, defendants could try to concoct a vagueness or qualified immunity argument. I hope it does not work. I wish Congress would re-pass legislation banning waterboarding when Obama gets in office. Bush vetoed such legislation earlier this year. But even if we can say that waterboarding is indisputably unconstitutional, nothing mandates prosecution under US law and Obama has not shown that he has the chutzpah to do something of this nature.

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PS: Cheney did not admit to breaking law...
Posted by: tony12000 on Dec 21, 2008 8:41 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He admitted to implementing waterboarding, which the Bush administration continues to define as legal. I disagree with the definition, but as a lawyer, language is everything.

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Message to the New Administration
Posted by: PrinceRobert on Dec 21, 2008 8:41 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
YOU WILL indict and prosecute the war criminals, which means most of the present administration, OR, WE THE PEOPLE will throw you out on your butts and establish a legitimate government that functions in accordance with the US Constitution. WE WILL see to it that the rule of law is once again adhered to by this nation. There is no choice here. The very existence of this nation is at stake. There are no matters, no issues, more urgent than this and the perception of the Republican party is irrelevant. If they see this as anything other than enforcement of the law then they are, DUH, very much part of the problem. Anyone who interferes with this process will be obstructing justice, which is also prosecutable. That includes FBI and other law enforcement officers.

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Just Great.
Posted by: Longdream on Dec 21, 2008 8:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We have BlammDaddy the assassin up there going unchallenged, and one flight up from me we have PrinceRobert the One-Man Super Seditionist.

Do you think we're deteriorating a little bit here?

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You're all not hungry enough yet. But Karma will be paid!
Posted by: common intelligence on Dec 21, 2008 10:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once the "system" brings everyone to their knees in economic distress
you'll all be so distracted ( the usual NeoCon tactic) by your worries and fears and distended bellies that prosecuting these scum will fall to the far back burner and a lid will be put on it.

In the passing of time Cheney will die of congestive heart falure, or a cerebrial stroke. There by he avoids the humility of guilty.

Bush will only circulate (if at all) through the likes of his NeoCon crowd selling his(s)tory and the media will promote it.
But if he goes into any public space/arena he will continuelly face angry crowds. Which will lead the bastard into a reclusive life where he will sulk in a state of confused denial and disbeleif until he takes his own life. That of which will be publicised as a heart failure too.

This is all unless the People Push for Prosecution relentlessly. Untill the truth is is brought back to the front burner of the stove.

(Of course by that time the United States will have ceased to be a country as it was originally intended and the nation will be a fully fledge Fascist Nation because Mashal Law will be the norm in order to control the hungry massses of zombies marching the streets caniballizing each other. That will be our karma)!

I'm being optomistic!

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Seeds of Destruction By F.Willian Engdahl
Posted by: opmoc on Dec 21, 2008 1:02 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Prince Charles is a Hero

Read This Book and You Will Realise The Situation is EVEN Worse than you thought possible

And Americans are the Biggest Victims

You actually EAT This Shit

And Read

http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/a.pusztai/

About how Science has Been Completely Corrupted By These EVIL Arseholes

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intrenational crimes court
Posted by: brian hayes on Dec 21, 2008 6:03 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
will the international court have to take action if the united states does nothing ?

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Zodiac12
Posted by: zodiac12 on Dec 22, 2008 6:07 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The reason Cheney is like he is, totally without empathy for those who suffer from HIS wars-including children-, is because he is a psychopath.

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» RE: Zodiac12 Posted by: Mrs. Jefferson
One President covers for the previous one.
Posted by: Mrs. Jefferson on Dec 24, 2008 10:12 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It struck me the other day that each modern day President removes the lies and crimes of the one before him. It's "change of face law" really.

Obama refuses to hold Bush, Inc. accountable and investigate 911, illegal wars, and bailout. The media tell us we should think of it as "change" and not dwell on the past. Bush is saving the economy of the world (of course he is responsible for destroying it in the first place).

Clinton and the media said, let's "move on" regarding Bush, Sr. crimes of war Iraq and S&L bank bailouts.

Ford declared that we should "move forward" and forgot the Nixon and Reagan crimes for Iran Contra and murder of S. Americans and financial scandals. He even pardoned Nixon when Nixon was not impeached but resigned.

President Truman after the war wiped out the story of the robbery by Nazis and Roosevelt administration crimes of war and civilian genocide, etc. They say he didn't know about it but Prescott Bush (son George Herbert Bush-CIA head) did it behind his back. I read where one war criminal served about six weeks. Others fled to S. America (with their plunder) with the help of the Vatican, etc. One President removes the crimes and bad policy of the previous. Forget about it...it was the war to end all wars. Ya..like that happened!!

It should be called continuation of genocide, robbery, and lies from one administration to the other. All of them belong to the secret, behind the scenes World Order groups (Bilderburg Group, Council on Foreign Relations, and Trilateral Commission). They divide the world and power up between them without our knowledge or consent. That is not democracy. It violates the Logan Act.

People should read Lying for Empire, Economic Hit Man, The Conspirators by Al Martin, and the Rise of the 4th Reich by Marrs.

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Zhu Bajie
Posted by: Zhu Bajie on Dec 25, 2008 12:41 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Johnson and Nixon got off after Viet Nam, Reagan got off after all his massacres in Central America. Cheney figures it'll be the same now.

Zhu Bajie

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gandolshep
Posted by: gandolfshep on Dec 26, 2008 6:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He admitted he was a war criminal because it is so obvious now that too deny it would only add to all the limitless lies that this mini dictator has already told (every word that he spoke.)

Jail Him. Bush and company.

They want a bail-out... let them pay for it, after all they got the money.

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Cheney's playing for "Precedent"
Posted by: eztempo on Dec 26, 2008 5:56 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
By going on the record as having a direct hand in directing the waterboarding (and other harsh treatment, including rendition) of detainees, Cheney is playing 2 steps ahead of Marjorie Cohn's legal jeopardy, here. He's setting it into the public's consciousness -- and possibly law -- that these techniques are, in fact, legal.

After all, "'senior officials in the United States government solicited information on how to use aggressive techniques, redefined the law to create the appearance of their legality and authorized their use against detainees,' as Cohn points out. This included getting Justice Department blessings.

The opinion of the Justice Department does, in fact, take the place of clear statutory authorization when there's some question as to the meaning or applicability of the law. Otherwise, Mukasey's statement that there's no need for Bush to issue blanket pardons since they acted "...in the belief that he or she was doing something lawful" would have been hooted out of DC as fantastic.

Carl Levin's protest that you cannot legalize what's illegal by having a lawyer write an opinion will be rendered moot unless a Special Prosecutor finds reason to bring indictments against Cheney, Rumsfeld, Ashcroft, Rice, Tenet, Powell and Addington ... the 'conspirators' that met in the Vice President' office to direct the details of the torture program.

Cheney's not playing for a pardon -- he knows there's no need -- he's playing to set legal policy precedent.

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He didn't even admit that, directly.
Posted by: eztempo on Dec 26, 2008 6:03 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My memory of the interview is that he didn't specify the acts authorized under the "program" he defined and directed. I think he left himself some 'wiggle-room' that could be covered by a claim of national security secrecy.

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nvannes
Posted by: nvannes on Dec 28, 2008 10:26 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
NO REAL CHANGE WITHOUT REAL INVESTIGATIONS, UNDER OATH, AND REAL CONSEQUENCES FOR CRIMINAL ACTIVITY.
THERE CAN BE NO "LOOKING FORWARD" OR "MOVING AHEAD" OR ANY PARDONING WITHOUT FULL DISCLOSURE AND KNOWING EXACTLY THE FULL EXTENT OF ANY CRIMES COMMITTED.
PASS THIS ON TO YOUR REPRESENTATIVES. TELL THEM HOW YOU FEEL AND HOW YOU EXPECT THEM TO REPRESENT YOU ON THIS MOST IMPORTANT ISSUE.

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