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The Rich Are Hogging Our Common Inheritance -- We Must Take It Back

By Gar Alperovitz and Lew Daly, The New Press. Posted December 8, 2008.


America's wealth is mainly a gift of our common past -- so how is it possible to justify our stunning level of economic inequality?
unjustdesertscover

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Editor's Note: The following is an excerpt from "Unjust Deserts: How the Rich Are Taking Our Common Inheritance and Why We Should Take It Back" by Gar Alperovitz and Lew Daly, published by the New Press, 2008.

Technological progress ... has provided society with what economists call a "free lunch," that is, an increase in output that is not commensurate with the increase in effort and cost necessary to bring it about. -- Joel Mokyr, Lever of Riches: Technological Creativity and Economic Progress (1990)

Warren Buffett, one of the wealthiest men in the nation, is worth over $60 billion. Does he "deserve" all this money? Why? Did he work so much harder than everyone else? Did he create something so extraordinary that no one else could have created? Ask Buffett himself and he will tell you that personally he thinks that "society is responsible for a very significant percentage of what I've earned."

But if this is true, doesn't society deserve a very significant share of what he has received?

Buffett may not know it, but he has put his finger on one of the most explosive issues developing just beneath the surface of public awareness. In recent decades researchers working in a broad range of economic, technological, and other fields have clarified much more precisely than in the past the many ways "society" contributes to the creation of "wealth" -- and, accordingly, how relatively little any one individual can be said to have earned and "deserved." Their research, in turn, raises profound moral -- and ultimately political -- questions that are becoming increasingly difficult to avoid. At the heart of this revolution in understanding is a fundamental reconsideration of the extraordinary role of knowledge in economic growth -- and of how ever-increasing knowledge, accumulating across the generations, is central to the creation of all wealth.

The distribution of income and wealth in the United States is more unequal today than at any time since the 1920s. The following study shares with Buffett a fundamental skepticism toward the belief that the nation's extraordinary inequalities are simply a natural outgrowth of differences in individual effort, skills, and intelligence. "We didn't rely on somebody else to build what we built," banking titan Sanford Weill tells us in a New York Times front-page story on the "New Gilded Age." "I think there are people," insists another executive, "who because of their uniqueness warrant whatever the market will bear."

The new research findings suggest that such views are profoundly wrong -- but for reasons that go well beyond Buffett's general view and, indeed, beyond the understandings that until recently have been common among specialists concerned with these matters. Often in history something dramatic is brewing in the quiet work of scholars -- something the public doesn't know about or understand until much, much later. Einstein's famous E = mc equation meant absolutely nothing to most people when it was first published in 1905 -- but it hit the world literally as a bombshell when atomic weapons exploded in 1945. The sophisticated mathematics Claude Shannon worked out in the 1940s laid theoretical groundwork for the digital communication that today ramifies into every corner of domestic and global life. The structure of DNA was deciphered by scientists in 1953, but the public is only now beginning to realize just how radically genetic engineering may revolutionize medicine, food production, and many other important fields.

"Unjust Deserts" suggests that something at least as portentous as these extraordinary developments is silently emerging among scholars studying the sources of wealth, and that once the implications are fully grasped, it too is likely to have dramatic implications -- in this case for the distribution of income, wealth, and power throughout society. It suggests, moreover, that this new understanding and the steady evolution of the knowledge economy, combined with growing social and economic pain and set against a backdrop of ever-worsening inequality, are likely to contribute to potentially massive political change as the twenty-first century unfolds. Consider the following truth: a person working today the same number of hours as a similar person in 1800 -- and working just as hard (and no harder) -- can obviously produce many, many times the economic output. Recent estimates suggest that national output per capita has increased more than twenty fold since 1800. Output per hour worked has increased an estimated fifteenfold since 1870 alone.

Consider further that the modern person on average is likely to work with no greater commitment, risk, or intelligence than his counterpart from the past.


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See more stories tagged with: wealth, inequality, shared inheritence, gar alperovitz, lew daly

Gar Alperovitz is the Lionel R. Bauman Professor of Political Economy at the University of Maryland. His previous books include The Decision to Use the Atomic Bomb and America Beyond Capitalism. He lives in Washington, D.C. Lew Daly is a senior fellow at Demos and the author of God and the Welfare State. He lives in New York City.

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Excellent Article ...
Posted by: mmckinl on Dec 8, 2008 12:21 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"If America's vast wealth is mainly a gift of our common past, how, specifically, can such disparities be justified? "

Very simply , these disparities can't be justified ...

The tax laws of the nation have been compromised to ensure the welfare of the rich and that of their progeny.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Every other law, too Posted by: sliver
» jealousy Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals
Rewarding work and sharing resources are almost universally valued.
Posted by: aouie01 on Dec 8, 2008 12:29 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
(Recycled from recent posts.)

Rewarding work and sharing resources are almost universally recognized as desirable for building harmonious societies. Things that are often overlooked in societies is the relatively unfairly greater distribution of resources to those who inherit material wealth, or are genetically or financially at an advantage, or are just favored randomly (luck or notions of "grace of god"), or those who found a way to greatly (and unfairly) benefit from exploiting the current system of sharing resources and workloads.

No need to pick and choose amongst rigid pre-defined prescribed solutions. Keep the focus on sharing resources fairly and appropriately rewarding beneficial actions and attempts. Given that infinite ways exist, we may never agree as one being the best. As more people are able to think critically, hopefully, we will as societies implement fairer solutions.

In a more ideal system, (almost) everyone should work a minimum amount of time towards sharing the workload needed for access to basic resources. (Almost) Everyone should be given the opportunity to fairly benefit from the access to non-essential resources in exchange for added time worked. Efforts should be rewarded much more than inherent superiorities (though that can also have some reward), or being randomly favored, or for finding a way to greatly (and unfairly) benefit from exploiting any given system of sharing resources and workloads. ... Will have to get into greater detail some other time ...

Sincerely,
Aouie

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Oil = boost in productivity
Posted by: Damhnait on Dec 8, 2008 12:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I completely disagree with the paragraph stating "What is the primary cause of such vast gains if individuals do not really "improve"? The answer is obviously more productivity -- more output from the same level of input. And self-evidently what this means is that we are more productive as a society....Clearly, it is largely because on the whole the scientific, technical, and cultural knowledge available to us, and the efficiency of our means of storing and retrieving this knowledge, have grown at a scale and pace that far outstrip any other factor in the nation's economic achievement."

What really counts for our twentyfold increase in "productivity" is the increased use of mechanical and fossil substitutes for human or animal labor and plant-based fuels, which have much less power than fossil energy and the tools it powers. Although certainly knowledge is a contributing factor, it doesn't fuel our cars or our power plants or our cargo ships. That's done with oil and coal and natural gas and nukes. Modern prosperity has been built on that one-time bonus gift of the earth, and when it's gone, the lights will go out and all that electronically stored knowledge will disappear as well unless we smarten up and adopt alternative energy sources.

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Karl Marx knew, will we ever learn?
Posted by: Col. Jackleg on Dec 8, 2008 2:59 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I heartily recommend that AlterNet's loyal readers visit Socialist Worker.com.

It is the ONLY site that is balanced, properly analytical and objectively comments on contemporary politics. Of course it is socialistic in every respect, but I'll be damned if I disagree and when compared to this subject article I find little difference in the respective criticism and suggested corrections. I have endured enough conservative economics to last my lifetime but apparently the Democrats don't get it and are letting Bush/Cheney/Paulson/Bernanke empty the filthy lucre coffers while Pelosi plays Lewinsky to Bush and Obamarama pisses into the wind. I'll take Marx to anything on the table right now.

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» RE: Henry George Posted by: Last Chance
» SocialistWorker.org Posted by: Col. Jackleg
unjustified enrichment ought to be a criminal offense as should the enabling of it by legislators
Posted by: Suzon on Dec 8, 2008 3:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Notice how the big fish are taking the opportunity to swallow the little ones? Okay, it happens in nature but human beings are capable of rational thought and altruism. Even five year olds have a good sense of what's fair.

We need to stop living like medieval warriors and learn to act like responsible grown-ups. Break with the past!

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What's this got to do with deserts?
Posted by: just john on Dec 8, 2008 4:39 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you're thinking of the word for the course that comes after the main bit of a meal, that's dessert. As in the phrase "just desserts," which I suspect is the usage the book's title is playing at.

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» Good eye Posted by: helenahanbasquet
» RE: Good eye Posted by: helenahanbasquet
» You're making fools of yourselves Posted by: stormchilde1975
I'm buying the book
Posted by: GarrisonPayneLeonard38H on Dec 8, 2008 5:00 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This one belongs on every bookshelf, next to Phillips's "Bad Money", Johnston's "Perfectly Legal" & "Free Lunch", Ehrenreich's books, and Klein's writing on disaster capitalism.

I am gratified to see that the authors can cite research: I've been posting this kind of analysis to various forums for several years, but with limited time and funds could provide nothing more than circumstantial proofs.

We must not, in celebrating this new validation, forget Greenie, the Grand Dragon of the Wall Street Klan: The evidence is now piled high that he rolled out a red carpet of lies to smooth the way for his buddies in the Greed Elite. Because Greenie has run interference for Reaganite/Bushite Wealthy-Fare for over thirty years, his is at the top of my shortlist of Perp-Walks To Heal The Nation.

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Author belies his own arguments
Posted by: redbird30328 on Dec 8, 2008 5:09 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The author proves that at least one person is not benefiting from the collective education of society. One obvious point he ignores (for obvious reasons) is that it takes uniquely brilliant people to recognize how technological developments can be exploited for products and services that benefit mankind and enrich themselves. This doesn't just happen. If that possibility did not exist, the fundamental research would not occur and no wealth would be created. Also, in most cases, the people responsible for these developments do work a lot harder than everyone else. The author's implicit solution would turn the US into East Germany with him and his ilk determining what "workers" should be paid. There is not enough time to rebut all of the holes in this piece of crap.

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» rebut yourself Posted by: stormchilde1975
Don't blame just the rich. Blame the obstructionists within Main Street
Posted by: maxpayne on Dec 8, 2008 6:37 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They're the ones blocking us good guys on Main Street who are trying to hold their criminal goons on Wall $treet accountable for their crimes. If it weren't for the gun toting bible thumping brown shirt fascists, the rich goons wouldn't be having it so easy. Furthermore, this isn't anything close to the Great Depression because I still see more gas guzzlers and rampant consumer spending going on, be it the malls, restaurants, etc ... And don't give me all that holiday shopping bullshit because back in the Great Depression years, people didn't laugh and belittle the frugal minded folks but in fact learned something from them. Yes, the rich have their part to play in dumbing down intelligence but so too do the deludeds within Main Street who think they can "fly" as if they're Peter Pan !

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RE: Nice
Posted by: sekfetenmet on Dec 8, 2008 8:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Exactly - money moves upwards. Redestributive taxation makes everyone wealthier, because as the adage poetically points out: money always goes upwards - it NEVER trinkled down to anyone - it always makes its way upwards. Put money at the bottom, and watch everyone benefit. Maximise it - reduce the gaps between the payment rate for different jobs (but dont totally eliminate them), and tax the shit out of anything over 250/500/1mill... (and if you need another fecking war-fix, then go invading tax-havens and stop the "flight of money out of the country"). Who loses?

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THE REASON WHY -->
Posted by: Last Chance on Dec 8, 2008 7:17 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People are afraid of death, so they grab for private wealth and technology as symbols of survival, but they die anyway, so they invent organized religions, but they're still afraid, so they go to war against those bad people in other countries, but they're still afraid, so they destroy the whole sinful World, hoping to be rewarded in Heaven = insanity.

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The Great Depression Bailout
Posted by: 2dogarage on Dec 8, 2008 7:25 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When the banking industry speculated the country into a financial crisis in the 1920's FDR confiscated the citizen's privately held gold at a low price and then sold it high "for the good of all".

He enrolled the common worker on the tax rolls as though they were business owners "for the good of all".

Now it's happening again and billions are being stolen from the American people and yet Obama poses on the cover of Time magazine as the next FDR and everyone thinks it's so wonderful.

I personally think that FDR's big brother nanny state policies have enabled people to abdicate their responsibility to live independently within their means and take care of their families while robbing them of their personal wealth, ensuring that they will indeed need "Daddy Warbucks" to take care of them in their old age.

The "naked emperor" syndrome that characterizes the Bush administration pales in comparison to FDR's, who remains popular to this day. I guess you can fool all the people all the time.

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» RE: FDR a big brother nanny? Get real. Posted by: Social liberal
» Calm down, Max Posted by: 2dogarage
» FDR Saved America Posted by: Last Chance
free? legal?
Posted by: littlepitcher on Dec 8, 2008 7:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some recognition should be given to the amount of money laundering done by the Wall Street and other greedheads. While taxpayers subsidize both the war on drugs and the damages done by addiction, the drug lords are untaxed and held financially blameless for their business damages.

Same with Buffett, who ran many businesses with undocumented/illegal Mexican labor running methamphetamines and brown heroin into America. Lotsa undocumented money there, too. When the American economy hit the worst recessionary streak since the Depression, he paid forward on his freebies from society by closing plants, laying off Americans en masse, contributing to foreclosures so his buddies could bargain shop our properties, and then shucking the financial damages onto Obama's proposed make-work programs, so the working American could pay the wages instead of his, and his buddies, corporate structures.

And Obama, having received mucho campaign contributions from his buddy Buffett and corporate cronies, will jump when Warren says "froggie". Don't expect change from any of this crew, any more than you could expect it from McCain.

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Sweden is more uequal than the US
Posted by: Social liberal on Dec 8, 2008 7:54 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The article argues that more income redistribution i.e. higher taxes and a larger welfare state is the answer to the US income inequality.

If this is the answer Sweden should have one of the lowest income inequalities in the western world. Sweden has one of the world’s largest public sectors, comprehensive welfare system and the world’s highest taxes (both as a percentage of GDP, >50%, as well as highest marginal taxation, 80 %, starting at very low levels of income, USD 40,000, a minimum wage earner pays 60 % of her income in tax)

However the opposite is in fact true, income inequality is among the highest in all western countries is higher than the US.

According to the Luxembourg Wealth Study (2006) the Gini coefficient of wealth (the most common measure of inequality) is 0.89 in Sweden and 0.81 in the U.S. (A high value, Gini coefficient, indicates high inequality. If the Gini coefficient is 1 everything is owned by a single individual.)

So much for income redistribution and high taxes, the answer to these very strange phenomena has a simple answer. In a super high tax society the already rich remain rich; nobody is able to become rich by entrepreneurship or hard work. The very rich, top 1 %, has successfully lobbied for high taxes and has cooperated with the Swedish labor unions to keep the middle class poor, punished excellence. The CEOs of large corporations and the labor unions have together with the political class made certain that small business owners is punished and that they are unable to compete with Swedish large corporations as well as made it virtually impossible to run a small business i.e become wealthy. In the US in comparison the super wealthy almost all have small business or entrepreneurial origins. Very few of the super rich, top 1 %, are CEOs or old wealth, the most despicable class of all, lazy ass trusts fund babies, most often limousine liberals all.

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How can anyone justify theft?
Posted by: ganjablue on Dec 8, 2008 8:03 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You people sound like a bunch of grave robbers. I know most of you statists have messiah complexes about Obama's New Deal so I'm probably speaking to a brick wall. To advocate a death tax is to rob someone of their life's work. How can you ethically justify the taking of an individuals property with the violent force of government. The product of my hands is as much a part of me as the heart that beats in my chest, yet you do not advocate forced organ donation. My work is my property and I have have a right to it in my life. I also have the right to decide who gets it when I die. I'll be damned if I'm going to let some "collective" take the property that rightfully belongs to me and my family. No I'm not rich, but I want to be someday.

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» You have to understand Posted by: stormchilde1975
» I don't mind Posted by: stormchilde1975
» You can't simultaneously argue Posted by: stormchilde1975
» What, are you kidding? Posted by: stormchilde1975
» Dim view of individual? Posted by: bingahaba
» No offense intended Posted by: stormchilde1975
» not at all [Off topic ;)] Posted by: bingahaba
» RE: Dim view of individual? Posted by: EncinoM
» on stormchilde1975 Posted by: bingahaba
lol, nice research.
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Dec 8, 2008 8:11 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"A college-educated engineer working today and one working 100 years ago have the same human capital,"

Stanford economists have concluded that one person isn't more than one person. "Next Time, on Nova".

How much work did that research take? I hope it was funded by a private grant and not public dollars.

Back on topic, we waste more money than we'd ever extract for the effort, even in a hugely successful class war.

Pick yer battles, eh?

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Sorry guys the tax laws have very little to do with it, Sweden is more unequal than the US
Posted by: Social liberal on Dec 8, 2008 8:13 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Income inequality is larger in Sweden than in the US, the top 1 % in Sweden own more of the wealth than the top 1 % in the US. Sweden has the highest Gini coefficient, the most recognized measure of income inequality, of all western countries, higher than the US, 0.89 compared to 0.81.

The Swedish taxes was in the mid 1970's raised by 50 % overnight, one would assume that this would have meant a higher degree of income equality, nothing of the kind, the income inequality is exactly the same over these 30 years.

So a large welfare system and extreme taxes is in fact not the answer to eradicating income inequality, sorry guys.

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Another perspective on inequality
Posted by: jtroane on Dec 8, 2008 8:16 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are other important ways to read historical inequality both in intranational and international contexts. Marx theorized a singular set of primitive accumulation events by which Capital was consolidated with the theft of peasant lands in Europe, Native American lands in the Americas, and a forced labor force on the Coast of West Africa. Rosa Luxemburg and more recently David Harvey have demonstrated that primitive accumulation was not resigned to one set of historical events, but rather that capitalism functions via the dispossession of other people across time and space. Thus financial capital, which reigns supreme in the current political economy, amasses a significant portion of its capital from the outright dispossession of others intranationally and internationally, for example. Check and Go's and payday loans supply a large percentage of the profit margins for CitiBank, right around the corner.

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ComandanteZenyattaJon
Posted by: Ski on Dec 8, 2008 8:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To heck with all this mental masturbation. Lost your job, your home, health insurance, your pride? Can't feed your family or yourself? EAT THE RICH. Five-to-one baby, one-in-five, nobody here gets out alive, they've got the guns but we've got the numbers...

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» RE: ComandanteZenyattaJon Posted by: Cynic13
Don Quixot
Posted by: Don Quixote on Dec 8, 2008 8:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our "shepards", religious and political, have turned out to be our wolves.

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Socialism = Fail
Posted by: meisterq on Dec 8, 2008 9:09 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article ignores the fact that technological innovation didn't pop into existence in the middle of a meditation circle. It came from the brilliance and hard work of individuals. These individuals would not have created the technological advances without incentive. None of us works without incentive.

There are many arguments to be made that wealth is distributed unequally relative to risk, but this attempt to revise history to show that technological advancements and productivity increases are somehow socialized commodities is ridiculous.

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» Well, you see, the problem is... Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» No individual can claim credit Posted by: stormchilde1975
» We can't be sure, Posted by: stormchilde1975
» RE: We can't be sure, Posted by: meisterq
» Here's the argument Posted by: stormchilde1975
» RE: Here's the argument Posted by: meisterq
» RE: We can be sure, Posted by: Social liberal
» You miss the point Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: You miss the point Posted by: meisterq
Reverting to the historical norm
Posted by: billwald on Dec 8, 2008 9:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The rise of a large middle class in the civilized countries is a freak post WW2 phenomenon. We are reverting to the norm of 85% working poor and 5% stinking rich, the rest doctors, lawyers, merchants . . . .

Don't believe me? Read some pre-war books. Before the war most of the middle class had live in servants. Half the people who came through Ellis Island became servants and the rest worked in sweat shops.

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» The "post WW2 phenomenon" Posted by: stormchilde1975
Obama has been backing off his campaign promise to rescind tax cuts for the wealthiest
Posted by: fanny666 on Dec 8, 2008 10:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"...Obama once again gave strong indications that he’s backing off his stance on two key campaign pledges – whether to repeal President George W. Bush’s tax cuts for the rich, and his call for bringing U.S. combat troops home from Iraq in 16 months." link

Write to the transition team and tell them what you think of this

ExtremeInequality.org

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Evolution-NO! Darwinism--YES!
Posted by: zooeyhall on Dec 8, 2008 10:59 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"so how is it possible to justify our stunning level of economic inequality?"

Easily--the wealthy just regard it as a just reward for being somehow "superior" to the rest of us schmucks.

I live in rural Nebraska, and you should see how some of the well-to-do around here froth at the mouth over the mere thought of biological Evolution.

But when it comes to wealth, they FULLY believe in the most ruthless social and economic Darwinism "survival of the fittest".

Throw in a religious belief that god rewards those who lead a "good" life with wealth, and you have people who can justify the most ruthless exploitation of others and the unbridled concentration of wealth.

Which is why I turned my back on religion years ago.

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Seize all but the first billion
Posted by: leafsong1 on Dec 8, 2008 11:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is no reason we should allow multi-billionaires to exist. Taking everything but the first billion is amply justified if we can give out 4.8 trillion dollars in bailout money. If a billion dollars isn't good enough for you, go kill yourself. That would put a dent in the deficit.

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Some things to keep in mind......
Posted by: Spiritgirl on Dec 8, 2008 11:17 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our current economic disparities have been engineered over the last 30 years, not just by Greenspan (worshipping at the door of Ayn Rand), but thru the various tax shelters that only people with money can take advantage of. In the mean time those people that are making less than $60k or less are shouldering more and more of the tax burden! And contrary to what the politicians would have you to believe, they are not working in the best interests of "we the people"!

The last 8 years have been the worst as de-regulation ushered in the Ponzi/Pyramid schemes that have currently laid waste to our economy! Deceptive advertising, and a "keeping up the Jones mentality" and "easy credit" were another wheel on the cart! All the while costs of goods and services are on the rise, unfortunately our paychecks were not!

We have only to look at the parade of CEO's with their hands out before Congress for proof! Are you kidding me? These are the last people that need securitization for "their golden parachutes" all the while laying the real workers off! We the people need to wake up and stop installing people in government that continue to work against our common interests and solely for big business!

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"America's wealth is mainly a gift of our common past"
Posted by: pelican beak on Dec 8, 2008 11:47 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So the subtitle says. My immediate reaction was to think of the fact that the common past responsible for our wealth was that our land was stolen from the natives. What we inherited and squabble over is the proceeds of a huge heist.

I was always bothered that Woody Guthrie's song, "This Land is Your Land," was a celebration of the success of imperialism. First you steal it, then you write a song celebrating that it's yours.

The author of this piece strikes me as being in his own way how the wealthy he criticizes are in theirs - with an absolutely shameless sense of entitlement.

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» I get what you're saying, Posted by: stormchilde1975
Remember Benjie Franklin, folks?
Posted by: willymack on Dec 8, 2008 11:59 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He flatly stated that the American people are basically corrupt, and that tendency would be exploited by those same greedy swine who have such a stranglehold on us now. You might say he was a bit ahead of his time, as many geniuses are. Do a little mind exercise. Say our total wealth is represented by a number; 100 will do nicely. When 2% of our people have or control 90% of that wealth, it doesn't take a Rhodes scholar to know there's something WRONG with that. As long as we confer demigod status upon our ultra-rich criminals who sneer at us with well-deserved derision and contempt, the situation will remain SOS.

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Delusional points
Posted by: 876 on Dec 8, 2008 12:33 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most of America’s wealth comes from its foundations in genocide slavery and various forms of subjugation and tyranny. Today America would not have a leg to stand on if it were not creating war poverty and slavery all over the world. This is what Americans are an heir to, not any sort of wealth entitlement.

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» RE: Delusional points--Agreed Posted by: idmaster2000
» RE: Delusional points Posted by: tjg1984
Convenient truths
Posted by: 876 on Dec 8, 2008 12:36 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I love how wealth is derivative of your common past yet ten out of ten Americans will deny any connection to slavery or genocide.

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» RE: Convenient truths Posted by: EncinoM
» It's uncomfortable Posted by: stormchilde1975
Succeeding generations
Posted by: wormfarmer on Dec 8, 2008 1:06 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
will view this discussion as, "Mental Masturbation", a futile exercise in pointing out the flaws in our economic systems, when the topic should address this system destroying the future of the generations to come. You want your children to have a better life than you, leave a legacy of a habitable world, not one that has to be pulled from the jaws of extinction. Leave clean air, clean water, good food grown in good soil, not the sponge food is grown in now. Let's stop spending the future of generations to come,let's start now.

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» RE: Succeeding generations Posted by: Last Chance
This Article Points to the Danger of "Intellectual Enclosure"
Posted by: femmyv on Dec 8, 2008 2:02 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So much of today's wealth-generating technology and intellectual property rests on the ideas and knowledge of previous generations.

Intellectual property rights threaten to do to our society what Enclosure did to England: make it more difficult for individuals to operate independently of the current class of power-players.

GM/GE food is the most obvious example. In this case, public domain knowledge of food production, the product of millenniums, is threatened with extinction as patented seed replaces farmer-produced seed.

Then you have cases where, as a requirement of employment, an individual signs a contract that gives their employer all IP rights to anything they might think up while they're working for that employer.

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Living in an intellectual bubble....
Posted by: Nungut on Dec 8, 2008 3:46 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look... I know this is a progressive news site. It is surprising how many folks posit their take on our current economic situation, and how it relates to wealth, as if they are intellectual "bubble boys/girls".

In essence, what you are saying is, that if I invent something that is a powerful problem solver for people, and it becomes wildly popular, and I sell more of them than I had ever conceived... I don't really deserve to become wealthy from it. Forget that no one else came up with the idea, and it was my unique creative efforts that formed it, and brought it to fruition... maybe spent years of my life perfecting it... thousands of hours bringing it into form. Maybe... in a matter of years... the same number of hours that the average "worker" spends in a lifetime of work. And I'm not allowed ito turn that into wealth?

Something no one wants to talk about here... is CORRUPTION IN SYSTEMS as a matter of human beings nature of running amuck in the face of self centered fears.

What we are seeing right now is NOT the collapse of Capitalism. It is the collapse of fascism... of a system that uses corruption and propaganda to loot the treasuries of human effort in the US and the world. It is as old as history.

Same thing with the collapse of Communism... and the collapse of Socialism. All of it is caused by human greed and avarice, leading to fascism.

What we OUGHT to outlaw is corruption and theft. Oh... wait a minute. There's already laws on the books for that, even though WE THE PEOPLE don't enforce those laws.

The answers won't be found in replacement of one failed ideology with another failed ideology.

The answers will be found closer to home, when folks quit whining and begging for a system of government to become the police of rightness. Try being the owners of your own government, and quit expecting hired government bullies to enforce what's right.

If you can't be bothered to be one of "we the people", and take responsibility for the corruption you allowed to grow during you and your parents lifetimes, and DO something about it...

Then just shut up...

The government... here... in China... in Russia... in ________ (fill in) have fixed things up to, and even, to death. That's what unchecked governments do EVERY TIME! UNLESS... the population of the country in question holds those in power to account.

Burst the bubbles you are living in and learn more about a wider range of the history of civilizations over the time of recorded history... and WHO is responsible for their goverments...

Then, quit whining and get off your butts and DO something ...

The only time any people have overthrown the looters and theives of the corruption and propaganda spreading fascists of economic control, is when they rise up and say "that's enough!! No more!! Let's get em!!!

Think about it...

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» I want to agree Posted by: stormchilde1975
» RE: I want to agree Posted by: Nungut
Nature is the source of all wealth...
Posted by: Smartcookie on Dec 8, 2008 7:15 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... all you are is a recombination of atoms, just because you make something using NATURES WEALTH does not entitle you to enslave your fellow man.

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CommonDreamer
Posted by: CommonDreamer on Dec 8, 2008 7:36 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For years we have been force fed the superiority argument along with the "one man is an island" sophistry - that people make their successes all by themselves. This argument was very convenient as it served to blame the victims of trickle down because they weren't trying hard enough (or going into insane debt for school or whatever) and in addition it fueled pointless star worship that has no basis in reality. That all worked in their favor though - it meant they could take all of the money and convince the workers that they, the great and mighty CEOs, were worth it. And take it they did! Why, they took so much that now working Americans just don't have any more to give and surprise - usury credit in lieu of rising wages just doesn't make an economy work.

But more importantly, symbiosis is very important and has been completely thrown aside in the amoral quest for profits and obscene money-grubbing, show-offy and empty brained culture that we have engendered by making the GNP our god, while the family goes down the drain.

I think we can now rest assured that all of the best and brightest sophistry can be laid to rest and I hope we can build an America that works for all - because everyone contributes. After all, has any CEO ever done the work of 400 or 4,000 workers? Has any CEO raised himself and not benefited from the many advantages society offers. You would think they built it all themselves....but we know otherwise. The emperor has no clothes and it's time to get back to some kind of holistic, spiritual and symbiotic existence and throw the money and superiority pathologies out the window - for good.

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Eat the Rich?!!?
Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Dec 9, 2008 6:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Eat the Rich?!!?
What exactly *is* the strategy to eat the rich? And what if you're a vegan?
But seriously, the rich aren't going anywhere because nobody stands up to them. It's not as if we're going to strike to bring this country to it's knees...and even if we did, our jobs would be outsourced in a heartbeat. Eat the rich? At this point, we're lucky just to eat some rice.

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A bully's pulpit
Posted by: PaulD on Dec 10, 2008 12:13 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If a man or a corporation invents a cure for disease, a faster integrated circuit, or better computer software, shouldn't the rewards be in proportion to the value of the products?

Those who complain so bitterly about the rich are usually the very ones who facilitated their rise to wealth and power. For example, judging by their actions, most of this article’s commenters were happy to help Bill Gates make billions because they bought machines loaded with his software.

Stripped to its essence, this article tries to make respectable the motives of the schoolyard bully - "They have it, we want it, let's take it."

(Full disclosure: Alternet's fair and balanced approach discourages readers from responding to “conservative talking points.”)

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A bully's pulpit
Posted by: PaulD on Dec 10, 2008 12:16 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If a man or a corporation invents a cure for disease, a faster integrated circuit, or better computer software, shouldn't the rewards be in proportion to the value of the products?

Those who complain so bitterly about the rich are usually the very ones who facilitated their rise to wealth and power. For example, judging by their actions, most of this article’s commenters were happy to help Bill Gates make billions because they bought machines loaded with his software.

Stripped to its essence, this article tries to make respectable the motives of the schoolyard bully - "They have it, we want it, let's take it."

(Full disclosure: Alternet's fair and balanced approach discourages readers from responding to “conservative talking points.”)

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First thing to understand...
Posted by: Deathbunny on Dec 10, 2008 2:41 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...is that--although legally "equal"--all people are not created equal. Additionally--courtesy of the concept of marriage--inheritance puts a "history" in the system where advantages earned by the parents can increase the resources of their off spring.

The "gift" of the American system is not the wealth as much as the system where your ability to own property is respected and not subject (much) to the arbitrary whims of other people without some form of recourse.

In this case, differences between humans and their situations result in differences in wealth and power.

Because of the system, however, the successes of people not currently in power can be maintained and built upon by their children.

What's the alternative system?

Simple, junk the money system and go to a needs based or a merit based system that is oriented around some particular goal.

The needs based system can work, but because of the difficulty in identifying who contributes versus what they receive, it's hard to identify cheaters in the system and--historically--these systems fail in large groups or turn into other systems.

A merit-based system where one receives based on their value to the group overlaps the money concept in short term, but reduces wealth accumulation across generations unless the traits causing the person to have more merit are inheritable or are passed from parent to offspring. If that's the case, you still get accumulation of power and "wealth".

Additionally, the "retaking" of wealth is sort of a pipe dream.

Why?

If you find a way to make the system let you take others' wealth, that means the system can just as easily turn around and take your wealth too. Essentially, you would need to violate the whole system you want to fix. The only people--in that situation--that would be able to resist the continuous redistribution of wealth are those with power--often arms and the cohesion of a group built on something other than economic means--and those people are typically the same sort of people who have the money in the first place.

Or their the "Red Staters" that also grow the food.

Honestly, all money is is an agreed upon measure of exchange. The amounts are totally relative and the only real value to it is the exchange of it.

If people accumulate too much, the flow stops and the system breaks down making it worth less. (Just like Wall Street).

What would be more useful is to simply identify what makes these people more successful overall and find ways to emulate or gain the means to emulate it.

Either that or just break society down into small groups of about 150-300 spread about with little contact with each other again.

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