COMMENTS: 66
What Does Barack Know About Peak Oil?
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Note: In this adapted essay from his site, James Howard Kunstler asks what Barack Obama and his team really know about our energy predicament?
... For instance, does Mr. O know that global oil production appears to have peaked at around 85 million barrels a day, with poor prospects of ever getting beyond that? This single naked fact has broad ramifications, above all, whether we can continue to think in terms of industrial "growth" as the benchmark for economic health. There are many interpretations of the current financial fiasco. Some of them are based on long-term technical wave theories. A more down-to-earth view suggests the shock of peak oil -- though it doesn't exclude wave theories.
Does Mr. O know that world oil discovery has fallen to insignificant levels after peaking long ago in the 1960s? Does he know we are finding no more super-giant oil fields on the scale of Arabia's Ghawar or Mexico's Cantarell, which have supplied most of the world's oil for the past 40 years and are now running down? Does he know that you can't produce oil that hasn't been discovered? Does Mr. O know that virtually all the oil-producing nations have entered production decline? Surely someone has whispered in his ear about the IEA's projection that global oil production would fall 9.1 percent in the coming year?
Does Mr. O know that oil exports have been trending to decline at a steeper rate than oil depletion? That is, the exporting nations are losing their ability to send oil to the importers (like us) at a rate mathematically greater than the run-down in their production. They are using more of their own oil even while their production is going down. For example, Mexico is depleting overall at more than 9 percent a year (with the Cantarell field alone running down at more than 15 percent annually). Does he know Mexico's net exports are crashing? Mexico has been our No. 3 leading source of imports. In a very few years, they will not be able to send us any oil. A deluded American public has no idea that this is happening. Will Mr. O explain it to them?
Does Mr. O know that the "old major" oil companies (Exxon-Mobil, Texaco, Shell, et al.) produce less than 10 percent of the world's oil now -- the other 90 percent coming from the foreign nationals -- and that blaming them for the situation is a waste of time? The foreign national companies are changing the landscape of the oil markets. They're making special contracts with "favored customers" rather than just putting their oil up for auction on the futures markets. One thing you can infer from this is that we're entering a period of national oil hoarding based on coming scarcity. The futures markets were based on relative abundance, and they will not operate very well in a climate of scarcity. Consider that the U.S.A will probably not be among the "favored customers" for several oil-producing nations. Figure that in with the coming loss of imports from Mexico (and Venezuela and Nigeria).
Does Mr. O know that the current drop in oil prices (due to massive financial deleveraging) has resulted in the cancellation or postponement of the very oil production projects that were hoped to offset the coming depletions? It's not worth it for an oil enterprise (private or foreign) to drill in deep water or venture into arctic regions when oil is priced at $50 a barrel -- if it costs $80 to get the stuff out of the ground. It's not worth digging up tar sands in Canada at that price. This halt in activity is going to boomerang back on the United States in a year or so, with depletions ongoing everywhere and no new oil to take its place. Does Mr. O know that we're just as likely to see shortages as a resuming rise in oil prices here in the U.S. during his coming term?
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Posted by: maxpayne on Dec 2, 2008 12:57 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
On the other hand, people take everything for granted. Back in my place, high volume traffic going to and from work is even nastier unless I go at 5 AM and every fucking day there's at least 4 major accidents and sometimes even explosions on the highway !! Sometimes, having to put up with 2.5 hour traffic jams when it should take me 40 minutes pisses me off to the point that I keep saying "GOD, PLEASE RAISE THOSE FUCKING GAS PRICES AGAIN !" There are more FRIVOLOUS drivers on the road than there are those going to work. I know this because back when the gas prices were way too high, traffic was reasonable. Now, it's back with bigger gas guzzlers selling and now more people are getting back to being totally dysfunctional by calling those of us who believe in alternative renewables, conserving, reusing, etc ... as "girlie men", "unpatriotic", "sissy", etc ... With such arrogance going on, I've felt like giving up and saying "LET THOSE MOTHERFUCKERS BURN IN HELL !"
And what about the mafia stampeding of that Haitian worker at Walmart by those arrogant shoppers? Folks, I hate to say it but America needs to be SEVERELY disciplined. I wished we wouldn't be headed for another Great Depression but these ignorant assholes seem to say otherwise and are happy to drag the rest of us into their mess !
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» RE: Alternatives or let the oil dry up and take a beating ? Hmmmm, really tough call.
Posted by: richholland
» RE: Alternatives or let the oil dry up and take a beating ? Hmmmm, really tough call.
Posted by: Bliss Doubt
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Posted by: Dr O on Dec 2, 2008 1:23 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: mmckinl on Dec 2, 2008 1:24 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As far as the public going after him for breaking the bad news I don't see it. People, for the most part, have been exposed to the Peak Oil debate. Obama will just end the debate.
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» RE: Obama Knows About Peak Oil ...
Posted by: sunlakedude
» RE: Obama Knows About Peak Oil ...
Posted by: mmckinl
» RE: Obama Knows About Peak Oil ...
Posted by: sunlakedude
» RE: Solar and wind alone could generate much or all we need.
Posted by: sunlakedude
» RE: Obama Knows About Peak Oil ...
Posted by: Dboy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: -matti on Dec 2, 2008 2:13 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is the era of "change" (trans. Big S@*t Gowin' Down) on a scale, and at a level, that the Obamites have just begun to begin contemplating.
Kunstler's main thesis is that what is required is "making other arrangements" in both a Social and Structural sense.
The importance of this notion is that it re-enforces the idea that what we need is not just "greening" but "sustainability" at a deeper -and more fundamental- level.
Make no mistake my brothers and sisters, Sustainability is the foundation of an entirely new Culture. James Kunstler may be seen in the future as one of its conceptual "prophets" -though he would likely wish this were not so.
-matti.
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» Who are the Obamites?
Posted by: Beck
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Posted by: jbpaz on Dec 2, 2008 2:40 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Deregulation has opened a futures market for oil that allowed speculators to ramp up prices worldwide. The pricing structure remains administered by big oil.
The actual cost of production is 5 cents per gallon and distribution adds another 7 cents to the total cost.
In Iraq the retail price at the pump is 12 cents. Most OPEC nations maintain this price level for domestic markets.
Gouging $2 to $4 per gallon from the public is fraud.
The $50 barrel is still priced for obscene profits. Spending $10 billions monthly to maintain a choke hold on foreign oil resources is the height of folly.
The 45% of voters who bought this program invite the Dark Ages to descend on us.
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» What was so bad about the "dark ages"?
Posted by: -matti
» RE: What was so bad about the "dark ages"?
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» Infant mortality, disease, abuse of the weak, illiteracy, dirty drinking water
Posted by: Bliss Doubt
» If you really did, you'd be dead already.
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: If you really did, you'd be dead already.
Posted by: Bliss Doubt
» the old "speculators" excuse
Posted by: jon B
» I should add...
Posted by: jon B
» RE: the old "speculators" excuse
Posted by: richholland
» the big oil myth
Posted by: jon B
» You have no idea
Posted by: SENILEBIKER
» I have no idea?
Posted by: jon B
» Speculation does us the service of raising the price
Posted by: leafsong1
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Posted by: Growthbuster on Dec 2, 2008 6:38 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You are correct on all counts. And it is refreshing to see this articulated, and articulated so well. Somehow we must find a way to enable President Obama to himself recognize these truths, and to somehow prepare the public to accept them. A tall order.
I believe the human race has the intelligence to collect and interpret the evidence, but my faith is waning in our ability to move beyond denial, accept the facts and really alter our lifestyles. But let's keep pushing! It will take constant effort from everyone who understands there are limits to growth.
Dave Gardner
Producer/Director
Hooked on Growth: Our Misguided Quest for Prosperity
Join the cause at www.growthbusters.com
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Posted by: symcokid on Dec 2, 2008 8:28 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I guess our strategy of stealing other countries oil now and saving ours for later is the best way to go, this way we can stay in control and rule the world for eons.
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Posted by: sre on Dec 2, 2008 8:30 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» until we can't think of something
Posted by: jon B
» Our solutions always increase the scope of our problems
Posted by: leafsong1
» false premise
Posted by: Cliche Rinpoche
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Posted by: TJColatrella on Dec 2, 2008 9:09 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It was and has all been do to the criminal manipulation of the commodities and futures market by Speculators..
The very fact that oil went up to nearly $150 per barrel and then yesterday is down to under $50.00 completely dissuades any argument this is even slightly related to Peak Oil...
It was never connected to supply demand and still is not otherwise our roads would be empty seemingly vacant deserted...like some George Romero flick..!
The worst part of this obfuscation by the Peak Oil Cult, is that they serve the very scoundrels and swindlers who pulled off one of the biggest rip offs in history, until the recent bail outs that is, with the meteoric rise of gas and oil prices we all saw due to the Commodities and Futures Modernization Act and Enron loophole..still not yet addressed by our Congress or Senate..!
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» Ah yes, that will show the wicked oil companies!
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Peak Oil, Not Exactly..!
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: PaulK on Dec 2, 2008 9:20 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The problem with petroleum isn't exactly supply. The problem is that the alternatives heavily pollute and destroy the planet. So does petrol, to a good extent.
Wind and solar energy aren't scarce, but energy storage is one of the costs of using them. Replacing the first 30% of electricity with wind/solar is cheap and a no-brainer because coal/oil/LNG are stored energy. Replacing the next 60% is harder because we would have to build pumped hydro stations to store electricity, and the last 10% is very expensive.
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» Alternatives to Consider -
Posted by: RoffleTheWaffle
» RE: Alternatives not to Consider - tar sands
Posted by: RoffleTheWaffle
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Posted by: ReallyBearish on Dec 2, 2008 9:51 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Problem is that we have a number of hostile oil producers who aren't interested in the virtue of lower prices. We may soon be facing a war of the futures, with hostile powers looking to force the US futures market out of existance.
That's what happens when you mess with Mr. Market.
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» RE: The REAL reason oil prices have dropped
Posted by: Inlander
» If you're going to buy barrels of oil...
Posted by: ReallyBearish
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Posted by: pps on Dec 2, 2008 10:37 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
THE ANSWER TO OPEC AND PEAK OIL AGE IS AT http://www.energynews.gr
WHAT WE NEED IS AN International Public Prosecutor Intervention.
Thank you.
Sincerely,
Basil Dimitropoulos
Electrical Engineer
104 - 106 Kremou Street, Kallithea, Athens 176-76 GREECE
TEL: +30-210-9590530
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» Very funny link
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Very funny link
Posted by: pps
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Posted by: gunboat diplomat on Dec 2, 2008 10:41 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A lot of readers are twanging on me for refraining to castigate President-elect Obama for deeds yet undone. They're discouraged by the advisors and cabinet sectetaries he's picked, ostensibly because the crew coming in are Washington "insiders," meaning they can't possibly see or do things differently.
My own starting point for this is the belief that in the years just ahead any sociopolitical entity organized at the giant scale will flounder -- this includes everything from the federal government to global corporations to factory farms to centralized high schools to national retail chains. So even expecting Mr. Obama's government to act effectively may be asking too much in a situation that will require mostly local action.
The meta-situation will be the overall decline of energy resources and the necessary downscaling of our activities. We are obviously in a transitional period between the old profligate energy economy and the new economy of relative scarcity. We have no idea how disorderly this transition will be, but there is certainly potential for tremendous instability in daily life.
For a while, perhaps, the federal government may retain some ability to affect the way things go, or give the appearance of doing so. This raises the issue of what Mr. Obama and his team really know about our energy predicament. The president-elect has made some noises -- recently on the 60 Minutes show -- that he understands something about the current price dislocations in the oil markets resulting from the larger financial turmoil. He alluded to the public's erroneous notion that current low-ish oil prices mean the oil problem is over.
But does the incoming president know some of the following details?
End
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Posted by: leemiller38 on Dec 2, 2008 10:58 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Civilization is a 10,000 year mistake. Get the average intellectual's head around that one, let alone the common folk! We need a global effort of massive proportions to stabilize and then reduce population everywhere using education and birth control. Europe is on that path already. The U.S.(where half of pregnancies are accidental) and other nations need to follow suit. Even with that effort, we may still disentegrate as the population growth curve is very steep and is characteristic of an outbreak-crash curve.
Mr. O needs to read more than Doris Kearns Goodwin's book about Lincoln's rivals to make progress on this front. Maybe "One with Ninevah" by the Ehrlichs would help him more.
Maybe if someone will send Mr. O the following poem it will help facilitate his understanding. I don't seem to have the connections.
**************************************
Conservationist’s Lament
By Kenneth Boulding
In: Man’s Role in Changing the Face of the Earth, 1956
University of Chicago Press, p. 1087
The world is finite, resources are scarce,
Things are bad and will be worse.
Coal is burned and gas exploded,
Forests cut and soils eroded.
Wells are dry and air’s polluted,
Dust in blowing, trees uprooted,
Oil is going, ores depleted,
Drains receive what is excreted.
Land is sinking, seas are rising,
Man is far too enterprising,
Fire will rage with Man to fan it,
Soon we’ll have a plundered planet.
People breed like fertile rabbits,
People have disgusting habits.
Moral: The evolutionary plan went astray by evolving Man.
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» RE: The question really is, Does Mr. O know about the O word?
Posted by: Inlander
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Posted by: willymack on Dec 2, 2008 11:57 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Oil, schmoil
Posted by: Bliss Doubt
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Posted by: sophiej on Dec 2, 2008 1:49 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
it is scary stuff, but these two documentaries can be a big help for any communities willing to tackle sustainability.
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Posted by: fanny666 on Dec 2, 2008 3:19 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: HANGTRAITORS on Dec 2, 2008 3:32 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: PEAK OIL IS MASSIVE LIE--based on what? Myth?
Posted by: Dboy
» Kill Whales baby, kill whales.
Posted by: jon B
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Posted by: hilly7 on Dec 2, 2008 4:00 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Technology has existed for 100 years for alternatives, H2O, zero energy motors, and so much more. Now problem is, all that develop this die prematurely or hide in fear for their life.
The alternative "they say" is coal, I assure you that is limited and destructive. Blowing the hell outta mountains, putting Mercury into the air, water, and soil will do much worse than oil ever thought of.
Carbon taxes? Look around...we are broke. Whenever I see stupid articles and stupid people I begin to agree with Kissenger and TPTB, depopulation may be the right way to go. Nature use to cull out these people, now we place laws and stickers so they can live longer. Peddle your NWO shit elsewhere, some of us have our head out of our ass.
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» talk about myths...
Posted by: jon B
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Posted by: nvannes on Dec 2, 2008 4:18 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: eyeonit on Dec 2, 2008 5:05 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://eye-on-washington.blogspot.com
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Posted by: Greenhouse Neutral Foundation on Dec 2, 2008 6:15 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bob Williamson
Founder & Chair
Greenhouse Neutral Foundation
www.strategicbookpublishing.com/ZEROGreenhouseEmissions.html
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Posted by: DaBear on Dec 2, 2008 8:45 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
See? Owning class people are having a major failure of imagination on a massive scale. That failure to comprehend even what is possible will be the death of many 'Merkaans.
We're already hearing the excuses and the sycophantic rationalizations of the libruls... oh wait, we progressives are just barbituates, silly me. Never mind, Mr. O. knows all and will save us from all our troubles... at least he's not Palin, right?
God damn 'Merkuh for her stoopidity.
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Posted by: ABetterFuture on Dec 3, 2008 7:15 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You don't need to invoke speculative demons to do any of that. "Peak (!!!) Oil (!!!)!!!! Run children, run fast now!!!"
Yes, humans will exhaust the world's petroleum. National policies should be directed toward mitigating dangerous temporary shortfalls, and encouaging less consumption for 'the long emergency' that our grandkids will face with the prospect of continuing civilization in a world where a gallon of gas is (!!!) more expensive than a gallon of munincipal water on your grocer's shelf.
Boo!!!
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Posted by: practical idealist on Dec 3, 2008 2:33 PM
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» RE: Poor Howard Kunstler
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: gwaring on Dec 4, 2008 1:38 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Peak oil, Obama and Santa
Posted by: richholland
» RE: Peak oil, Obama and Santa
Posted by: richholland
Comments are closed-
Posted by: maxpayne on Dec 2, 2008 12:57 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
On the other hand, people take everything for granted. Back in my place, high volume traffic going to and from work is even nastier unless I go at 5 AM and every fucking day there's at least 4 major accidents and sometimes even explosions on the highway !! Sometimes, having to put up with 2.5 hour traffic jams when it should take me 40 minutes pisses me off to the point that I keep saying "GOD, PLEASE RAISE THOSE FUCKING GAS PRICES AGAIN !" There are more FRIVOLOUS drivers on the road than there are those going to work. I know this because back when the gas prices were way too high, traffic was reasonable. Now, it's back with bigger gas guzzlers selling and now more people are getting back to being totally dysfunctional by calling those of us who believe in alternative renewables, conserving, reusing, etc ... as "girlie men", "unpatriotic", "sissy", etc ... With such arrogance going on, I've felt like giving up and saying "LET THOSE MOTHERFUCKERS BURN IN HELL !"
And what about the mafia stampeding of that Haitian worker at Walmart by those arrogant shoppers? Folks, I hate to say it but America needs to be SEVERELY disciplined. I wished we wouldn't be headed for another Great Depression but these ignorant assholes seem to say otherwise and are happy to drag the rest of us into their mess !
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» RE: Alternatives or let the oil dry up and take a beating ? Hmmmm, really tough call.
Posted by: richholland
» RE: Alternatives or let the oil dry up and take a beating ? Hmmmm, really tough call.
Posted by: Bliss Doubt
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Posted by: Dr O on Dec 2, 2008 1:23 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: mmckinl on Dec 2, 2008 1:24 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As far as the public going after him for breaking the bad news I don't see it. People, for the most part, have been exposed to the Peak Oil debate. Obama will just end the debate.
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» RE: Obama Knows About Peak Oil ...
Posted by: sunlakedude
» RE: Obama Knows About Peak Oil ...
Posted by: mmckinl
» RE: Obama Knows About Peak Oil ...
Posted by: sunlakedude
» RE: Solar and wind alone could generate much or all we need.
Posted by: sunlakedude
» RE: Obama Knows About Peak Oil ...
Posted by: Dboy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: -matti on Dec 2, 2008 2:13 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is the era of "change" (trans. Big S@*t Gowin' Down) on a scale, and at a level, that the Obamites have just begun to begin contemplating.
Kunstler's main thesis is that what is required is "making other arrangements" in both a Social and Structural sense.
The importance of this notion is that it re-enforces the idea that what we need is not just "greening" but "sustainability" at a deeper -and more fundamental- level.
Make no mistake my brothers and sisters, Sustainability is the foundation of an entirely new Culture. James Kunstler may be seen in the future as one of its conceptual "prophets" -though he would likely wish this were not so.
-matti.
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» Who are the Obamites?
Posted by: Beck
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Posted by: jbpaz on Dec 2, 2008 2:40 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Deregulation has opened a futures market for oil that allowed speculators to ramp up prices worldwide. The pricing structure remains administered by big oil.
The actual cost of production is 5 cents per gallon and distribution adds another 7 cents to the total cost.
In Iraq the retail price at the pump is 12 cents. Most OPEC nations maintain this price level for domestic markets.
Gouging $2 to $4 per gallon from the public is fraud.
The $50 barrel is still priced for obscene profits. Spending $10 billions monthly to maintain a choke hold on foreign oil resources is the height of folly.
The 45% of voters who bought this program invite the Dark Ages to descend on us.
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» What was so bad about the "dark ages"?
Posted by: -matti
» RE: What was so bad about the "dark ages"?
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» Infant mortality, disease, abuse of the weak, illiteracy, dirty drinking water
Posted by: Bliss Doubt
» If you really did, you'd be dead already.
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: If you really did, you'd be dead already.
Posted by: Bliss Doubt
» the old "speculators" excuse
Posted by: jon B
» I should add...
Posted by: jon B
» RE: the old "speculators" excuse
Posted by: richholland
» the big oil myth
Posted by: jon B
» You have no idea
Posted by: SENILEBIKER
» I have no idea?
Posted by: jon B
» Speculation does us the service of raising the price
Posted by: leafsong1
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Growthbuster on Dec 2, 2008 6:38 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You are correct on all counts. And it is refreshing to see this articulated, and articulated so well. Somehow we must find a way to enable President Obama to himself recognize these truths, and to somehow prepare the public to accept them. A tall order.
I believe the human race has the intelligence to collect and interpret the evidence, but my faith is waning in our ability to move beyond denial, accept the facts and really alter our lifestyles. But let's keep pushing! It will take constant effort from everyone who understands there are limits to growth.
Dave Gardner
Producer/Director
Hooked on Growth: Our Misguided Quest for Prosperity
Join the cause at www.growthbusters.com
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Posted by: symcokid on Dec 2, 2008 8:28 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I guess our strategy of stealing other countries oil now and saving ours for later is the best way to go, this way we can stay in control and rule the world for eons.
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Posted by: sre on Dec 2, 2008 8:30 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» until we can't think of something
Posted by: jon B
» Our solutions always increase the scope of our problems
Posted by: leafsong1
» false premise
Posted by: Cliche Rinpoche
Comments are closed-
Posted by: TJColatrella on Dec 2, 2008 9:09 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It was and has all been do to the criminal manipulation of the commodities and futures market by Speculators..
The very fact that oil went up to nearly $150 per barrel and then yesterday is down to under $50.00 completely dissuades any argument this is even slightly related to Peak Oil...
It was never connected to supply demand and still is not otherwise our roads would be empty seemingly vacant deserted...like some George Romero flick..!
The worst part of this obfuscation by the Peak Oil Cult, is that they serve the very scoundrels and swindlers who pulled off one of the biggest rip offs in history, until the recent bail outs that is, with the meteoric rise of gas and oil prices we all saw due to the Commodities and Futures Modernization Act and Enron loophole..still not yet addressed by our Congress or Senate..!
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» Ah yes, that will show the wicked oil companies!
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Peak Oil, Not Exactly..!
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: PaulK on Dec 2, 2008 9:20 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The problem with petroleum isn't exactly supply. The problem is that the alternatives heavily pollute and destroy the planet. So does petrol, to a good extent.
Wind and solar energy aren't scarce, but energy storage is one of the costs of using them. Replacing the first 30% of electricity with wind/solar is cheap and a no-brainer because coal/oil/LNG are stored energy. Replacing the next 60% is harder because we would have to build pumped hydro stations to store electricity, and the last 10% is very expensive.
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» Alternatives to Consider -
Posted by: RoffleTheWaffle
» RE: Alternatives not to Consider - tar sands
Posted by: RoffleTheWaffle
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Posted by: ReallyBearish on Dec 2, 2008 9:51 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Problem is that we have a number of hostile oil producers who aren't interested in the virtue of lower prices. We may soon be facing a war of the futures, with hostile powers looking to force the US futures market out of existance.
That's what happens when you mess with Mr. Market.
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» RE: The REAL reason oil prices have dropped
Posted by: Inlander
» If you're going to buy barrels of oil...
Posted by: ReallyBearish
Comments are closed-
Posted by: pps on Dec 2, 2008 10:37 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
THE ANSWER TO OPEC AND PEAK OIL AGE IS AT http://www.energynews.gr
WHAT WE NEED IS AN International Public Prosecutor Intervention.
Thank you.
Sincerely,
Basil Dimitropoulos
Electrical Engineer
104 - 106 Kremou Street, Kallithea, Athens 176-76 GREECE
TEL: +30-210-9590530
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» Very funny link
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Very funny link
Posted by: pps
Comments are closed-
Posted by: gunboat diplomat on Dec 2, 2008 10:41 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A lot of readers are twanging on me for refraining to castigate President-elect Obama for deeds yet undone. They're discouraged by the advisors and cabinet sectetaries he's picked, ostensibly because the crew coming in are Washington "insiders," meaning they can't possibly see or do things differently.
My own starting point for this is the belief that in the years just ahead any sociopolitical entity organized at the giant scale will flounder -- this includes everything from the federal government to global corporations to factory farms to centralized high schools to national retail chains. So even expecting Mr. Obama's government to act effectively may be asking too much in a situation that will require mostly local action.
The meta-situation will be the overall decline of energy resources and the necessary downscaling of our activities. We are obviously in a transitional period between the old profligate energy economy and the new economy of relative scarcity. We have no idea how disorderly this transition will be, but there is certainly potential for tremendous instability in daily life.
For a while, perhaps, the federal government may retain some ability to affect the way things go, or give the appearance of doing so. This raises the issue of what Mr. Obama and his team really know about our energy predicament. The president-elect has made some noises -- recently on the 60 Minutes show -- that he understands something about the current price dislocations in the oil markets resulting from the larger financial turmoil. He alluded to the public's erroneous notion that current low-ish oil prices mean the oil problem is over.
But does the incoming president know some of the following details?
End
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Posted by: leemiller38 on Dec 2, 2008 10:58 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Civilization is a 10,000 year mistake. Get the average intellectual's head around that one, let alone the common folk! We need a global effort of massive proportions to stabilize and then reduce population everywhere using education and birth control. Europe is on that path already. The U.S.(where half of pregnancies are accidental) and other nations need to follow suit. Even with that effort, we may still disentegrate as the population growth curve is very steep and is characteristic of an outbreak-crash curve.
Mr. O needs to read more than Doris Kearns Goodwin's book about Lincoln's rivals to make progress on this front. Maybe "One with Ninevah" by the Ehrlichs would help him more.
Maybe if someone will send Mr. O the following poem it will help facilitate his understanding. I don't seem to have the connections.
**************************************
Conservationist’s Lament
By Kenneth Boulding
In: Man’s Role in Changing the Face of the Earth, 1956
University of Chicago Press, p. 1087
The world is finite, resources are scarce,
Things are bad and will be worse.
Coal is burned and gas exploded,
Forests cut and soils eroded.
Wells are dry and air’s polluted,
Dust in blowing, trees uprooted,
Oil is going, ores depleted,
Drains receive what is excreted.
Land is sinking, seas are rising,
Man is far too enterprising,
Fire will rage with Man to fan it,
Soon we’ll have a plundered planet.
People breed like fertile rabbits,
People have disgusting habits.
Moral: The evolutionary plan went astray by evolving Man.
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» RE: The question really is, Does Mr. O know about the O word?
Posted by: Inlander
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Posted by: willymack on Dec 2, 2008 11:57 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Oil, schmoil
Posted by: Bliss Doubt
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sophiej on Dec 2, 2008 1:49 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
it is scary stuff, but these two documentaries can be a big help for any communities willing to tackle sustainability.
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Posted by: fanny666 on Dec 2, 2008 3:19 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: HANGTRAITORS on Dec 2, 2008 3:32 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: PEAK OIL IS MASSIVE LIE--based on what? Myth?
Posted by: Dboy
» Kill Whales baby, kill whales.
Posted by: jon B
Comments are closed-
Posted by: hilly7 on Dec 2, 2008 4:00 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Technology has existed for 100 years for alternatives, H2O, zero energy motors, and so much more. Now problem is, all that develop this die prematurely or hide in fear for their life.
The alternative "they say" is coal, I assure you that is limited and destructive. Blowing the hell outta mountains, putting Mercury into the air, water, and soil will do much worse than oil ever thought of.
Carbon taxes? Look around...we are broke. Whenever I see stupid articles and stupid people I begin to agree with Kissenger and TPTB, depopulation may be the right way to go. Nature use to cull out these people, now we place laws and stickers so they can live longer. Peddle your NWO shit elsewhere, some of us have our head out of our ass.
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» talk about myths...
Posted by: jon B
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Posted by: nvannes on Dec 2, 2008 4:18 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: eyeonit on Dec 2, 2008 5:05 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://eye-on-washington.blogspot.com
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Posted by: Greenhouse Neutral Foundation on Dec 2, 2008 6:15 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bob Williamson
Founder & Chair
Greenhouse Neutral Foundation
www.strategicbookpublishing.com/ZEROGreenhouseEmissions.html
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Posted by: DaBear on Dec 2, 2008 8:45 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
See? Owning class people are having a major failure of imagination on a massive scale. That failure to comprehend even what is possible will be the death of many 'Merkaans.
We're already hearing the excuses and the sycophantic rationalizations of the libruls... oh wait, we progressives are just barbituates, silly me. Never mind, Mr. O. knows all and will save us from all our troubles... at least he's not Palin, right?
God damn 'Merkuh for her stoopidity.
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Posted by: ABetterFuture on Dec 3, 2008 7:15 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You don't need to invoke speculative demons to do any of that. "Peak (!!!) Oil (!!!)!!!! Run children, run fast now!!!"
Yes, humans will exhaust the world's petroleum. National policies should be directed toward mitigating dangerous temporary shortfalls, and encouaging less consumption for 'the long emergency' that our grandkids will face with the prospect of continuing civilization in a world where a gallon of gas is (!!!) more expensive than a gallon of munincipal water on your grocer's shelf.
Boo!!!
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Posted by: practical idealist on Dec 3, 2008 2:33 PM
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» RE: Poor Howard Kunstler
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: gwaring on Dec 4, 2008 1:38 AM
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» RE: Peak oil, Obama and Santa
Posted by: richholland
» RE: Peak oil, Obama and Santa
Posted by: richholland
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