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Treated Like a Terrorist by the DMV

By deleted , Smirking Chimp. Posted November 28, 2008.


The author tries to renew his drivers license and runs afoul of the catch-a-terrorist system in the DMV.

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I am not a terrorist.

How can I prove this in these paranoid times? Easy. The New York Department of Motor Vehicles took my $30 payment over the phone to clear what they said was a record of my NY drivers license having once been withdrawn, and informed the National Driver Register in Washington that I'm a good guy deserving of a renewal of my Pennsylvania drivers license.

Let me explain.

After 9-11, Congress and the Bush Department of Homeland Security went into overdrive passing things like the USA PATRIOT Act, the establishment of the Transportation Safety Administration (TSA) to monitor air passengers and to develop lists of people to harass at air terminals, a network of black sites to detain and torture suspected terrorists, and more recently the National Driver Register, a federal data bank designed to link all drivers licenses and car registrations to a central computer system, and thus ferret out would be terrorists trying to create false identities courtesy of the state DMVs.

I, like uncounted tens of thousands of innocent Americans, ran afoul of this latest catch-a-terrorist system as my Pennsylvania drivers license, which I first obtained in 1997 when I moved from New York to Pennsylvania, came up for a third renewal. Several months ahead of my renewal date, I got a coldly worded and ominous letter from the Pennsylvania Department of Motor Vehicles saying my license could not be renewed because the new federal data base was reporting that my New York license had been "withdrawn" by the NY DMV.

When I called the Pennsylvania DMV to explain that my New York license had never been withdrawn or suspended (it had to have been in good order for me to have used it under the state's reciprocity agreement with neighboring New York to obtain my new Pennsylvania license), and to ask what the problem might be, I was told that they couldn't tell me, because the federal report doesn't say what the problem is. Nor is there any way to contact or appeal to Washington.

My only recourse was to deal with the New York State DMV -- probably one of the blackest of bureaucratic black holes known to man.

I called the number that the Pennsylvania DMV provided, and found myself connected to a maddening automated system which had no options that could respond to my problem, and that offered no way to reach a human being. Finally, by calling the media relations office of the Pennsylvania DMV and using my reporting credentials, I was able to get someone who could at least check enough into the case with New York to establish that the problem was that when I moved to Pennsylvania, transferring my car registration from New York to Pennsylvania, New York kept my car's registration active in that state. (I don't know what I would have done had I not been a journalist.) Then, since I had stopped paying for New York car insurance when I switched over to Pennsylvania plates and Pennsylvania insurance, my New York insurer had sent in word to the New York DMV saying my car no longer had insurance.

Never mind that my car was by then in Pennsylvania and properly insured for months before the date that New York showed my car to have become uninsured. Pennsylvania couldn't do anything about it because the federal law says they may not issue me a license as long as there is a problem with my license in another state. There is no statute of limitations on any of this, and no method of appeal of the federal listing.

I called a number that was kindly provided by the media officer in Pennsylvania, and got through to an actual person in the New York DMV. She told me that the problem came up because when I moved to Pennsylvania and shifted my plates over to my new state of residence, I didn't send my old license plate to New York. Never mind that there's no way I would have known I had to send that plate in. And never mind that I did obtain a new title for the car in Pennsylvania, and that the record of that title transfer is in the national computer system. Any cop with a computer could find that out. Never mind. Eleven years after the fact, New York still needed the plates.


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See more stories tagged with: tsa, department of motor vehic, transportation safety adm

Dave Lindorff is the author of Killing Time: an Investigation into the Death Row Case of Mumia Abu-Jamal. His new book of columns titled "This Can't be Happening!" is published by Common Courage Press. Lindorff's new book is "The Case for Impeachment," co-authored by Barbara Olshansky.

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DMV
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Nov 29, 2008 1:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The biggest irony is that even with all the hoops they make you jump through these days, there are more idiots and maniacs on the road than ever. If they really wanted to keep us safe, they would come up with a way to get them off the road.

Of course, that's the whole story of the anti-terrorism business. If they devoted a tiny fraction of those resources toward protecting us from ordinary, unglamorous, but statistically significant threats to our life and limb like auto accidents and air pollution, then they would probably miss some of the satisfaction that comes from pissing us off and wasting our time.

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» RE: DMV Posted by: MT512
jackiebass
Posted by: jackiebass63 on Nov 29, 2008 2:12 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think that it states on your NY registration renewal that if you cancel your insurance that you must turn in your plates. Failure to do so is a crime. That part of the article is inaccurate. We also should take responsibility for what we do or don't do. I agree that dealing with government agencies can be frustating.

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» RE: jackiebass Posted by: Harris20
» RE: jackiebass Posted by: undrgrndgirl
» RE: jackiebass Posted by: bornxeyed
» Noncooperation with idiocy Posted by: leighsure
Yes, Dave.
Posted by: folkie on Nov 29, 2008 2:30 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Only lunatics would start wars of aggression and then claim that they can't stop them because we're already there.

Only lunatics would rely on the people whose policies brought about a global financial crisis, to solve that crisis.

Only lunatics would blame immigrants when corporate CEOs outsource their jobs.

Only lunatics would think that by terrorizing the world, we can end terror.

Are you aware there are major "alternative" and "progressive" websites (present company excepted, of course) where if Obama appointed Bush and Cheney to his Cabinet, anyone who dared to say that they didn't think it was a good idea would be attacked as a "doomster" and probably banned for negativity?

If you want a sane law, how about one that requires posting warnings everywhere in the U.S.A. that say, "You don't have to be crazy to live or work here, but if you do, you will be soon enough."

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» RE: Yes, Dave. Posted by: Alan8
This reminds me of...
Posted by: chuckjs on Nov 29, 2008 2:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bush publically backing up his terrorist laws by saying "If your not a terrorist you have nothing to worry about.

Yeah right!

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Wake-up, Lindorff
Posted by: Davidco on Nov 29, 2008 4:06 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I recall that you have written articles calling for the impeachment of Bushco. People have been placed on the watch/harass list for much less serious 'offenses'. It might even have been here that I learned of the case of a tenured college professor who was 'probably' listed for giving a single anti-Bush public speech at an academic conference.

You have been messed with and it will probably happen again until somebody starts rolling back these insanely totalitarian 'security' measures - which, like airport checkpoints, do nothing to advance national security but plenty to harass and discomfort political opponents.

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» 'land of the free.' Posted by: bornxeyed
Every NY car owner knows...
Posted by: thornwolf on Nov 29, 2008 5:01 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you register a car in New York, you are specifically informed that you must turn in your plates before cancelling your insurance. In fact, you cannot cancel your insurance if you have not turned in your plates. So this clown simply stopped paying his NY car insurance without first turning in his plates and cancelling his registration, which he had been clearly told he must not do. When the insurance ran out, the insurance company informed DMV, as they are required to do by law. At that point, our befuddled writer's registration was still active and he was guilty of not turning in his plates, thereby subjecting himself to legal and administrative sanctions. And then he wonders why he has a problem? What a bozo.

His comment about NY's DMV being a "black hole" is simply not true. New York has the most efficient DMV I've ever had to deal with (though it was not so good in the old old days). Whether you visit the DMV in a busy city or a small town, you can be in and out with your transaction completed in under an hour. On the street, cops can just scan the bar codes on your stickers to know if you have insurance or not and know if your car is inspected or not. They don't even have to look at your registration. That's pretty efficient.

Too bad for our hapless writer that he is not as well organized as NY's DMV.

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» RE: very NY car owner knows... Posted by: supercrisp
» RE: very NY car owner knows... Posted by: bornxeyed
» Identity theft Posted by: suprmark
» Noncooperation with idiocy #2 Posted by: leighsure
» oh brother. Posted by: EinMD
Good point, and now we will shortly find out if Obama plans on....
Posted by: Prophit on Nov 29, 2008 8:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Keeping it that way. I look forward to those presidential directives, signing order, overturn of the posse comitatus act etc....being overturned by Obama, say within the first month of being in office.

NO MORE 5 YEARS OLD KIDS BEING PUT IN POLICE CARS HANDCUFFED AND HAULED OFF TO JAIL FOR HAVING A SCHOOL YARD BRAWL,,,, talk about training future generations into hte sense of helplessness... THIS IS SOCIAL ENGINEERING PLAIN AND SIMPLE... Add that to the drugging of our children and you have a whole nation of sheep numbly slaving in camps for the elite.

That alone should make you so damn pis*ed off that you want to actually do something about it. 40% of our population right now is on some form of systemic drug program that is legal. That is a crime and affects the brain chemistry in your body not including what its doing to your organs.

Its all intentional and evil...

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People heard "Change" but didn't understand Omama sa "Chains"
Posted by: common intelligence on Nov 29, 2008 7:29 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mo- Chains for everyone.

I think most people are laying to many bets on a horse that hasn't even go tto the starting gate yet.

This nation is still rolling around in a mire of blind faith, betting on a change they have no idea what it is going to be or when it's going to play out.

Just watch as Health care plans goes into limbo because insurance companies and those that have paid into it for years feel they are getting double crossed and going to loose their premiumly paid policies and be taxed to buy my health insurance. It's going to be a "cluster fuck" jack. We're all going to get screwed, again!

The newly escalating war in India is going to justify , in the bellies of the pentagon, to continue the endless war. The Military Industrial Complex will lather in the continues contracts. Presidents and politicians come and go but this scurge lives on relentlessly.
Mean while Americans are going to allow Bush Co. off the perverbial hook. When he should be behind bars for therest of his life (without HDTV!)

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Enough of this "War on Terror" B.S.!
Posted by: susanhathaway on Nov 29, 2008 7:58 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do we really need any further proof that the so-called "War on Terror" never had anything whatsoever to do with keeping Americans (or anyone else) safe, but is just a means of frightening the general population into submission to ever more draconian laws? First we're meekly taking off our shoes in airports, then our drivers' licenses can be non-renewed for reasons even the DMV doesn't know, and now we're being asked to accept passively that our President-elect "can't" prosecute members of the Bush/Cheney crime syndicate for their numerous felonies. The "War on Terror" is, in reality, a "War on the Rule of Law"--and the terror-mongers are still winning.

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What its really about is.....
Posted by: eosrk on Nov 29, 2008 8:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Insurance Companies making billions off us to line their pockets, theirs and the states....New Law, If you manage to go the whole year without an wreck, and you paid in the insurance of profit....then the insurance comp should give back 10 percent of that money....yeah, let's see how far that idea goes LOL

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Have you done this?
Posted by: douglashoyt on Nov 29, 2008 9:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Have you:


written a letter to your congress critter demanding that the above system have any appeals process?

started a petition to change the misapplication of laws?

told your local newspaper that your congress critter has done nothing to correct these harrasments. If in fact the congress critten has done nothing?

voted for the other guy to replace the congress critter?

filed a law suit against the agency misapplying the laws or regulation? Don't even get a lawyer, do it your self. There are numerous web sites which can provide information on filing and arguing claims.

If you have not done all of the above:

Shut the F..K up. You are part of the problem.

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» Coward Posted by: EinMD
Typical of gov't bureaucracies.
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Nov 29, 2008 9:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now you see why lots of folks hate the thought of higher taxes? They're using it to build more databases, not to mention military bases in nasty places Americans have no place being.

The author deserves a refund of his income tax for services not rendered. We all do.

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» Uh no. Posted by: EinMD
All bushed up
Posted by: willymack on Nov 29, 2008 9:37 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Remember what Cluseau's boss said in one of the Pink Panther movies? "Give me ten Cluseaus and I can destroy the world", or words to that effect. Hell, bush has almost done that all by himself.

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Dear Comrade Dave:
Posted by: GUY FOX on Nov 29, 2008 10:53 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dear Comrade Dave:

Now that you have gotten your insurance card validated by the corp-rat controlled bureaucrazy to get your travel papers... we need to also ask: Have you had all you mandatory vaccinations? Eh Comrade?

Amerikan $ociety has become insane. Indeed! Any $ociety that passes laws saying car insurance is more important than food and shelter, the basics of civility and life, is insane. Give it some thought.

When civil society finally breaks down, we should think about shooting all the lawyers... after we've killed all the $tock brokers.

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Same thing happened to me
Posted by: east bay on Nov 29, 2008 12:50 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've been in California for 20 years, I sent my check in for my renewal. Forgot about it until I got pulled over. I explained to the cop, I sent my check, it had cleared, etc. He said he could impound my car. Anyways I got my ticket, (red light) and one for driving without a license. The nightmare began. Unlike the writer I never got a letter. Calling DMV proved fruitless. Went to dMV. And it was there I heard "Did you ever have a license in the state of NJ? "Yes i used to live there. "Well your license is suspended there, and you have to clear it up before we issue you a license. Got that cleared up, I owed for surcharges on points, which I stopped paying for when I moved. Had to go back to DMV personally to get my license like a month later. I was too terrified to drive without a license. The worst part of my experience was the lack of even a letter, the cashing of my check. One bright spot was a got my "driving without a license ticket" suspended by a cool judge. $700.00 plus 2 points.

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SICKOS..( not Dave L )
Posted by: Anthhh on Nov 29, 2008 1:30 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... If some SICKO wanted to take down a passenger-jet in this country, he could do it with his hands tied behind his back and blindfolded.

Our airports are not yet being situated in deserted remote sectors... which are full of checkpoints, armed guards and radar systems.
Like the airports that they have in ACTUAL unstable nations.

The US airports are smack dab in the middle of cities.

Where any sick human being with a homemade rocket launcher can zap a nice hole into any arriving or "departing" passenger jet of his choice.

All he'd need to do is find the place to stand, wait, aim, fire, and walk away..

Why do they search baby booties do you ask?
They want to make sure thay have all bases covered. THose which they can afford to cover, and that have something in it for themm,..namely abuse of power and the taking of opportunitistc advantage of the heineous crimes they have already committed and denied blaming others.


And all this Proves that 9-11 WAS and inside job. And that any sicko can kill any people for whatever reason they might have. If they were desparate enough

That desparation weighed against the the amount of benefit points the finger straight towards the true guilty parties..

And thank GOD they will STILL FALL..EVER HARDER NOW THAT THEY HAVE BOMBED THEIR OWN NATION AS WELL AS INNOCENT OTHER NATIONS.
FUCKING SICKOS.

Dave,
I have always known that you are supposed to return your plates to the registry after you are done. After all these years, I can't beleive that it's still around the same penalty price for losing them. I guess inflation didnt hit the registry yet...

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» RE: SICKOS..( not Dave L ) Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: SICKOS..( not Dave L ) Posted by: Anthhh
» RE: SICKOS..( not Dave L ) Posted by: bornxeyed
YOU MISSED THE POINT ENTIRELY. THIS WILL ALL BE FIXED WHEN ALL FUNCTIONS
Posted by: Raymond Emerson on Nov 29, 2008 1:31 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
of the DMV are handed over to private enterprise. The republican view is that bureaucrats are to be encouraged to be incompetitent. This is to create the pressure for privitization.

The hot house for this is in Iraq. These guys are not going to quit. We must force them back into their cages. Whips and chairs anyone?

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This is not about terrorism, this is about the insurance industry
Posted by: lexicon on Nov 29, 2008 4:55 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
THis is a mechanism to assure that the insurance industry has "enshrined" profits, it effectively turns the car insurance companies into "psuedo-governmental agencies".

In the future, look for lots more of these kinds of "co-implication" laws to sneak onto the books...such that there becomes a long list of things like car insurance, house insurance, credit card balances, court records, driving records, employment records, health records, etc., that must stay CLEAN in order for you to do something fundamental, like get a drivers license. And each of these "blockers" for the drivers license will also in turn require a list of "clean" records, such that you can't even have an outstanding delinquent library book, without losing your fundamental right to function in our society.

It's the rise of a new industry..."administrative crime", that will slowly and inexorably choke us to death as a society, as all the databases eventually grow together.

This is one of the reasons to be against a national ID card. Having a unique national id number, allows all these governmental and civil/commercial databases to join.

The result is more about economic freedom from the credit/insurance masters, than anything else.

Anecdotally, I was rather rudely refused by a bank, to open an account, because an old abandoned account at a different bank, which had been fallow for YEARS, had at some point along the line grown a new "fallow account fee" which had accumulated about a dozen dollars negative balance over a few years.

Therefore, I was not able to get a new bank account at a national bank!

This is an example of what I'm referring to. Let's say that it's 5 years in the future, and now I cannot renew my drivers license because I cannot renew my insurance. I cannot renew my insurance because I have a "delinquent account" at some bank. I cannot clear the delinquent account at the bank, because they cannot process transactions without a valid current drivers license. Alternatively, I can obtain a non-drivers national ID card, which I can do if all my bank and insurance accounts are in good standing.

It's called administrative crime.

lexicon

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Another story, a different explanation
Posted by: CJC on Nov 29, 2008 10:04 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My ex-husband recently went to the Registry of Motor Vehicles in MA to renew his driver's license that he has had since 1993, and renewed on schedule with no problems since then. But this year "something" came up from NY state where we had lived previously. He was given a telephone # to call but the office was only open 8-12. (We previously had an intractable problem with the NY DMV when my name was spelled incorrectly on my license. No amount of telephoning was useful and the typo was not fixed until my next renewal. A black hole indeed.)
So he called a friend in NY who has been involved in local politics and also ran an auto repair business for many years. He put him in touch with a local judge. The judge made some inquiries and said it had to do with lapsed insurance. Fortunately my ex was able to clear it up in person at a NY DMV location in Queens where he was visiting and paid a $25 "fine" or something. The judge said that what is happening is that NY is cleaning up its files and turning up lots of these problems. Really, who moves to another state and has to send their old license plates back? We moved many times - Michigan, Kansas, NH, CA, MA, NY, MA - never had a problem before.
I don't think this has anything to do with post 9/11 security paranoia. It's just a NY state problem and maybe it will eventually play itself out as they clean up their records.

I've never had any problem in MA. The car must have been in my ex's name. Or maybe the big NY clean-up started this year; I renewed my license last year.

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» vehicle plates Posted by: Anthhh
Apparently a very serious crime, apparently
Posted by: SicfkOfBush on Nov 30, 2008 5:59 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With nearly every crime, except some of the most serious, there is a 7 year limit for prosecution. However, it seems that failure to turn in your plates is one of the most serious, right up there with murder among others, even worse than those committed by Bush and his mob. Have you ever violated equivalent criminal activities, such as jaywalking? Yes a bit of sarcasm but maybe justified, all things considered.

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smirking chimp website victim
Posted by: Anthhh on Nov 30, 2008 11:30 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bet he has been reading at Smirking Chimp too much lately. The air over there is way too unbreathable.

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bishkek95
Posted by: bishkek95 on Dec 1, 2008 5:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Same thing happened to me - I had my license renewal blocked in Mass. because of the same insurance business in NY - I'd left the state in 1993. I solved it by going to the DMV in Queens, where I happened to be visiting a friend. This is really a weird one. I wonder what the total cost (I had to fork over $35 or so) of this has been to everybody caught in it?

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