COMMENTS: 157
How Sarah Palin Created a Whole New Generation of Vegetarians
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Posing for photographers with her felled caribou, her child inches from its bleeding mouth, Sarah Life-Is-Precious Palin is not confused about where meat comes from. So the turkey being slaughtered in full view of the camera as she conducted an interview at Triple D Farms in Wasilla this week probably doesn't faze her.
But most Americans don't want to see the transformations their turkey went through to get to their Thanksgiving dinner table.
How it lived, how it was shipped, who hung the struggling bird upside down on the conveyer to transport it to the awaiting blade, etc. -- are not thoughts that improve the taste of the cranberry sauce.
Nor will the economy get so bad people will have to take jobs as "live hangers" like Sam, not his real name, last year.
"Today, I saw about 50 dead turkeys on the trucks, and about 80 live birds fell onto the floor," he writes in a diary he kept while working at House of Raeford Farms in Raeford, N.C., the seventh-largest turkey producer in the United States.
"A worker tried to throw a turkey up to the double-sided dock from its rail side. The bird was about to hit the rail when another worker kneed the bird and then kicked it, knocking it back down to the floor. The worker threw the turkey a second time, but it hit the underside of the dock and dropped straight down to the cement floor for its third time that day. The bird lay in watery feces for about two hours before being picked up and hung on the line -- the turkey could keep its head up and blink; it was otherwise motionless."
Mom or Grandma may put hours of care into roasting, basting, stuffing and perfecting their butter-brown bird. But care is not the operant word at the slaughterhouse as workers throw, swing and "box" at the birds as they unload trucks in video Sam shot.
One worker holds a turkey to be crushed under a truck's moving tires just for the heck of it; others pull heads and legs off turkeys for fun. Workers insert their fingers into birds' cloacae (vaginal cavities), remove eggs and throw them at each other in a depraved game.
Because turkeys are drugged and bred to grow so quickly, their legs can't support their own weight, and many arrive with broken and dislocated limbs says Sam. When you try to remove them from their crates, their legs twist completely around, offering no resistance -- useless and limp.
The turkeys must be in a lot of pain but they don't cry out, observes Sam. In fact, the only sound you hear as you hang them, he says, is the "trucks being washed out to go back and get a new load."
Most people admit they don’t want to watch laws or 40-pound Thanksgiving turkey carcasses being made. Nor do they want to watch a helpless turkey unceremoniously fed into a wood chipper behind Sarah Palin's head as KTUU-TV broadcast.
But will they eat the same bird when it is passed to them on a plate next to mashed potatoes on Thursday? You betcha.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: Xynyx on Nov 27, 2008 1:36 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. If you eat turkeys, you don't see them as creatures in need of compassion... at least, not enough to keep you from killing them or paying to have them killed so you can eat them.
2. If you eat turkeys (or chickens... or ducks... or cows... etc.), this is what you are getting. It's brutal, sure... but you pay for it. If you can't face the reality of what you are paying for, perhaps you should consider how you are spending your money.
3. Albert Schweitzer: "Think occasionally of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight"
To behave in this fashion... sparing yourself the sight of such suffering, allows you to be "good Germans". Isn't that nice.
4. Politically... progressives should drop this thing about Palin being interviewed with a turkey being pulled apart behind her. Conservatives will use it to further embed the idea that progressives are just a bunch of pansies who can't bare the realities associated with their choices. Get over it.
If you're going to eat animals, eat animals... and accept that it is likely that some amount of suffering and brutality is going to come with it. I'm not suggesting that you inure yourselves to such things... but you kind of do need to accept that you are responsible for them.
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» RE: Allow me to be the first...
Posted by: Ka-bird
» RE: Allow me to be the first...No, allow me
Posted by: Beck
» vegetarians eat no dead animals- period
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: vegetarians eat no dead animals- period
Posted by: mr. joshua
» RE: vegetarians eat no dead animals- period
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: vegetarians eat no dead animals- period
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: vegetarians eat no dead animals- period
Posted by: babs
» RE: B12 is available...
Posted by: fearn
» RE: Allow me to be the first...No, allow me
Posted by: sirios
» RE: B12
Posted by: Plexius2
» RE: B12
Posted by: Xynyx
» Very Wrong
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» B12 is sorely lacking in typical corn-fed shit, not in grass-fed/pasture raised meat and diary.
Posted by: maxpayne
» ...to demonstrate the intellectual and moral consequences of eating animals...
Posted by: bornxeyed
» Wow
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» There are no moral consequences. We are food, and we eat food.
Posted by: Beck
» RE: There are no moral consequences. We are food, and we eat food.
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: There are no moral consequences. This is mostly directed to beck
Posted by: sirios
» POPULATION!!!!
Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: Allow me to be the first...No, allow me
Posted by: orwellturns
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Suzon on Nov 27, 2008 2:20 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's important to recognize how agribusinesses increase animal suffering but it's also important to recognize how their practices degrade the people they hire to do the killing.
In an ideal world, the CEOs would do the dirty work.
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» RE: we despise what we harm (see Stanley Milgram on Obedience to Authority)
Posted by: ehensleyky
Comments are closed-
Posted by: teel on Nov 27, 2008 2:26 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you would be unable for moral reasons to kill the animal you intend to eat with your own hands then you are disqualified from eating it. Letting someone else do your dirty work and looking the other way makes you a hypocrite plain and simple.
Personally I love meat, not turkey so much but I eat plenty of chicken, seafood and fish. I have no trouble cracking the neck of a fish I just caught and I have no issue chopping off the head of a chicken for my dinner. If you can't do it then you don't deserve to eat it.
What I do object to are cruel death factories staffed by sadistic people with cattle prods causing undue harm to the animals. I would be happy to cut down on my intake to allow animals to grow on a farm on a scale that is reasonable and then terminated as gently as possible. I don't see eating meat as morally wrong per say, but the industrialization of it is disgusting.
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» Thanks, but there are many things I don't want to taken action on, but still participate in
Posted by: Beck
» by your assessment, if they're eating meat, how come they're deficient in iron and B12?
Posted by: Smackback
» RE: by your assessment, if they're eating meat, how come they're deficient in iron and B12?
Posted by: Beck
» RE: by your assessment, if they're eating meat, how come they're deficient in iron and B12?
Posted by: bornxeyed
» absurd presumption!
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: absurd presumption! Here's why I say that.
Posted by: Beck
» i hope you correct every one of those people listed above
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: i hope you correct every one of those people listed above
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» Ten bucks she invented most of those in her list
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: absurd presumption! Here's why I say that.
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Thanks, but there are many things I don't want to taken action on, but still participate in
Posted by: babs
» I also gave up meat
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» Rationalizations
Posted by: Tricia
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Tom Degan on Nov 27, 2008 2:36 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Does that gal even have a clue?
No Ordinary Team of Rivals
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
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» RE: Turkey Girl
Posted by: Moira61
» RE: Turkey Girl
Posted by: lenioui
» I especially liked the irony...
Posted by: bornxeyed
» By her ramblings I don't think so...
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Nightstallion on Nov 27, 2008 3:03 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some of my kinds of folk are out on the street starving . . . . I really don't think they give a fuck how the bird gets to the table or even if there is a table; some of us have to peruse garbage cans just to be present tomorrow and not on the county slab!
Who on this green earth will deny a starving man a meal? No, you don't have to dissemble and look no farther than your own mirror!
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» RE: Forgive me idiots but Sarah Palin (loathsome creature that she is) did not write this article . . .
Posted by: NickJones
» Silly, silly, silly (and patronizing)
Posted by: brucegfriedrich
» RE: Forgive me idiots but Sarah Palin (loathsome creature that she is) did not write this article .
Posted by: babs
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Nightstallion on Nov 27, 2008 3:06 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Vegitarians! Are you fucking kidding?
Posted by: NickJones
» Living?
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Vegitarians! Are you fucking kidding?
Posted by: sirios
» RE: Vegitarians! Are you fucking kidding?
Posted by: gilliani
» RE: Vegitarians! Are you fucking kidding?
Posted by: Beck
» real vegetarians don't eat animals.
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: Vegitarians! Are you fucking kidding?
Posted by: gilliani
» RE: Vegitarians! Are you fucking kidding?
Posted by: babs
» RE: Vegitarians! Are you fucking kidding?
Posted by: pelican beak
» Don't hold back....
Posted by: 2thepoint
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ShoShenQ on Nov 27, 2008 4:06 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Btw plants have rights as well, I shiver when I think about all those poor soya beans, slaughtered to feed all those hungry vegetarian maws, why are you so cruel guys ? Its my belief that plants should be spared and only animals should be eaten, so what ?
Ludicrous people...
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» RE: a useless article
Posted by: gilliani
» Its convenient not to...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: a useless article
Posted by: morninmist
» RE: a useless article
Posted by: babs
» fewer plants suffer for a vegn diet
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: a useless article
Posted by: bornxeyed
Comments are closed-
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Nov 27, 2008 4:07 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think it's a bit extreme to suggest it's a moral crime to eat meat, as some self-righteous vegetarians seem to do. Are lions, tigers, and bears criminals?
In one of the local parks, there's this pond that accumulates during the rain. In it, there are hundreds of fish who slowly die every summer as the pond dries out. What will becoming a vegetarian do for them? If I were one of them, I think I would rather have lived a short but happy life and become food for some hungry fisherman.
So I think the message ought to be about cruel factory methods, and not about vegetarianism. If Palin were to hunt for a non-endangered animal herself, shoot it as quickly and painlessly as possible, eat it herself, use the bones to make handles for her kitchenware, use the skin to make rugs or clothes for her family, etc., I wouldn't condemn her for it. I have plenty of other things to condemn her for.
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» RE: Vegetarians
Posted by: clvngodess
» Vegans are the Left's fundamentalists
Posted by: Smackback
» RE: Vegans are the Left's fundamentalists
Posted by: babs
» RE: Vegans are the Left's fundamentalists
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Vegans are the Left's fundamentalists
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Vegetarians
Posted by: lenioui
» RE: Vegetarians
Posted by: bornxeyed
Comments are closed-
Posted by: la nurse on Nov 27, 2008 4:11 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've learned that running grain through an animal is one reason why, globally, people have less to eat. It is not efficient. In addition, animal farming is a very significant source of pollution.
I eat cheaper and much more healthy because of these changes. I have reduced the risk of many diseases by eliminating meat and dairy products. It is quite easy to change dietary habits once you decide to make those changes and have a good reason to do so. Why wait for a heart attack?
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» RE: L. A.
Posted by: NickJones
» RE: L. A.
Posted by: gilliani
» RE: L. A.
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: L. A.
Posted by: bornxeyed
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Gregory Kruse on Nov 27, 2008 5:06 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: morninmist on Nov 27, 2008 5:18 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Get a live and go out and do something constructive if you are concerned about how turkeys get to our tables.
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» RE: morningmist
Posted by: morticia
Comments are closed-
Posted by: raine1 on Nov 27, 2008 5:22 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» What a wonderful post. Thank you for your perspective. -nt-
Posted by: Smackback
» Both parties are responsible for allowing Big Agri to crush family farms.
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: The family farm
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: The family farm
Posted by: yesman
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Carol Burns on Nov 27, 2008 5:53 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: weathered on Nov 27, 2008 6:11 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Cute Martha, why don't
Posted by: babs
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Posted by: 2thepoint on Nov 27, 2008 6:20 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The current American population, especially those that live in cities, have become insulated as to how they live. People seem to think hamburgers just "are" . No thought as to how it came into existence. Clothing or other consumer items just appear. Food just naturally belongs in a can or a package.
No or little thought is given to how all this happens or what it takes to live.
Maybe Palins realistic connection to how what it takes to really live will open many eyes! Somehow I doubt it though.
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» No, not if she continues shooting wolves from a helicopter.
Posted by: Beck
» shooting wolves from a helicopter is legal and desirable.
Posted by: CalKid
» Wolf population
Posted by: bornxeyed
» Wrong, humans are out of control, not wolves.
Posted by: yale
» RE: Wrong, humans are out of control, not wolves.
Posted by: 2thepoint
Comments are closed-
Posted by: dancingcloud on Nov 27, 2008 6:51 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Beck on Nov 27, 2008 6:58 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Verse from the Book of Romans
Posted by: dancingcloud
» Jesus eating flesh? Debatable. But he clearly had no problem if others ate it.
Posted by: Smackback
» RE: Jesus eating flesh? Debatable. But he clearly had no problem if others ate it.
Posted by: bornxeyed
» Romans 14 indicates we are not to impose our own matters of conscience upon others
Posted by: Smackback
» weak eat only vegetables
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» TYPO CORRECTED: weak eat only vegetables
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: Verse from the Book of Romans
Posted by: babs
» the Bible approved of slavery (part 1)
Posted by: vasumurti
» the Bible approved of slavery (part 2)
Posted by: vasumurti
Comments are closed-
Posted by: jeffrey7 on Nov 27, 2008 7:08 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone who is so stupid as to think giving an interview from the 'killing floor' is good PR,seriously need deep psychological help.
I'll bet she'll be one that thinks it's a good idea to chew through her soon to be grandchild's ambilical cord.
Do the world a favor Sarah and take a ride on a calving glacier.
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Posted by: BST on Nov 27, 2008 7:28 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Try this: Ask 10 people on the street to match foods on their table, like veal, to a picture of the source. Ask the same about Brussel sprouts or beef. I'll bet most of them flunk.
We have effectively shut ourselves off from gratitude -- at the very least -- that should come from consuming another living thing.
I am a vegetarian. While I do not nag and preach to others, I would be far happier if all of us really knew where our food comes from, the way in which animals are treated and how that should inform our decisions.
For me, the thought of animal cruelty to feed a greedy market of consumers who more often than not eat either too much or waste what they have, is excessively distressing. Buddhists say that the fear and anger in your food source becaomes part of your own body.
I have far more respect for the small free-range farmers and the expert hunters who gather, then consume. They do the best they can to prevent suffering and they know the truths the rest of us often do not.
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» I agree, with all you said, but I still choose to eat meat from family farmers
Posted by: Smackback
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Archie1954 on Nov 27, 2008 8:24 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Meat
Posted by: sanaa
» RE: Meat
Posted by: bornxeyed
Comments are closed-
Posted by: caru on Nov 27, 2008 9:23 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
now thats thinking.
if you eat meat you are eating fear. can you imagine these animals dying without fear?
antibiotics, toxins and fear, let us eat it right now. and we do. and we get what we eat.
ive heard that the most powerful food is the food most directly connected to the sun. if one can eat straight out of the garden, yes the garden of earth, one eats the most highest vibration.
ive also heard of breatharians. imagine. just breathing.
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Posted by: Auk on Nov 27, 2008 9:58 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Although I am unlikely ever to be a hunter again, I was a VERY good shot when I was a hunter, and my relatives in rural Pennsylvania are Barack Obama's "bitter" people who "cling" to their guns & religion, etc. etc. -- and many of them still voted for Obama! -- and I think when they shoot one deer to deed themselves for a whole winter, they are doing the rest of us a favor. There are too many deer out there to collide with your car, or give you Lime disease or EEE in the summer, and venison is an economical and traditional American way to get through a depression.
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» wild turkeys too!
Posted by: Auk
» RE: Has nothing to do with Sarah Palin or factory farming
Posted by: babs
» Sigh. Lyme Disease.
Posted by: Auk
Comments are closed-
Posted by: morticia on Nov 27, 2008 10:38 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals on Nov 27, 2008 11:21 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: reality
Posted by: babs
» Every State had the right Contorl there Wild life
Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals
» RE: very State had the right Contorl there Wild life
Posted by: bornxeyed
» Where is the proof?
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» Maybe so but, but the helicopter thing is way out of line with true outdoors folks.
Posted by: yale
Comments are closed-
Posted by: prtsimmons on Nov 27, 2008 12:13 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Find a local, ethical farmer, or kill your own meat, or give up on the whole sick enterprise. If you think meat comes from the frozen foods section, you are the problem. I have a lot more respect for the hunters out there than I do for the people who support the factory food industry. If the cruelty wasn't enough of a reason to stop eating meat wrapped in plastic, please be aware that you are contributing to the next great food scare: might be mad cow, might be listeria, might be E. coli, might be bird flu, might be something totally new, but it will come if we keep treating animals like this.
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» RE: I finally found something I respect Ms. Palin for
Posted by: babs
» RE: I finally found something I respect Ms. Palin for
Posted by: bornxeyed
Comments are closed-
Posted by: vasumurti on Nov 27, 2008 12:25 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In The Human Story, edited by Marie-Louise Makris (1985), we read: "...recent studies of their teeth reveal that the Australopithecines did not eat meat as a regular part of their diet, and were mainly peaceful vegetarians, rather like chimps or gorillas. The popular image of the murderous ape is now as extinct as the Australopithecines themselves."
Dr. Gordon Latto notes that carnivorous and omnivorous animals can only move their jaws up and down, and that omnivores "have a blunt tooth, a sharp tooth, a blunt tooth, a sharp tooth--showing that they were destined to deal both with flesh foods from the animal kingdom and foods from the vegetable kingdom...
"Carnivorous mammals and omnivorous mammals cannot perspire except at the extremity of the limbs and the tip of the nose; man perspires all over the body. Finally, our instincts; the carnivorous mammal (which first of all has claws and canine teeth) is capable of tearing flesh asunder, whereas man only partakes of flesh foods after they have been camouflaged by cooking and by condiments.
"Man instinctively is not carnivorous," explains Dr. Latto. "...he takes the flesh food after somebody else has killed it, and after it has been cooked and camouflaged with certain condiments. Whereas to pick an apple off a tree or eat some grain or a carrot is a natural thing to do; people enjoy doing it; they don't feel disturbed by it. But to see these animals being slaughtered does affect people; it offends them. Even the toughest of people are affected by the sights in the slaughterhouse.
"I remember taking some medical students into a slaughterhouse. They were about as hardened people as you could meet. After seeing the animals slaughtered that day in the slaughterhouse, not one of them could eat the meat that evening."
Author R.H. Weldon writes in No Animal Food:
"The gorge of a cat, for instance, will rise at the smell of a mouse or a piece of raw flesh, but not at the aroma of fruit. If a man can take delight in pouncing upon a bird, tear its still living body apart with his teeth, sucking the warm blood, one might infer that Nature had provided him with a carnivorous instinct, but the very thought of doing such a thing makes him shudder. On the other hand, a bunch of luscious grapes makes his mouth water, and even in the absence of hunger, he will eat fruit to gratify taste."
As far back as 1961, the Journal of the American Medical Association reported that: "A vegetarian diet can prevent 97% of our coronary occlusions." More recently, Wiiliam S. Collens and Gerald B. Dobkens concluded: "Examination of the dental structure of modern man reveals that he possesses all the features of a strictly herbivorous animal. While designed to subsist on vegetarian foods, he has perverted his dietary habits to accept food of the carnivore. It is postulated that man cannot handle carnivorous foods like the carnivore. Herein may lie the basis for the high incidence of arteriosclerotic disease."
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Posted by: vasumurti on Nov 27, 2008 12:27 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"This is quite an admirable argument. It explains practically everything; why we do not eat each other, except under conditions of unusual stress; why we may kill certain other animals (they are, in the order of nature, food for us); even why we should be kind to pets and try to help miscellaneous wildlife (they are not naturally our food). There are some problems with the idea that an order of nature determines which species are food for us, but an examination of human history indicates the broad outlines of just such an order, though inhibitions against eating certain species may vary from culture to culture.
"The main problem with this argument is that it does not justify the practice of meat-eating or animal husbandry as we know it today; it justifies hunting. The distinction between hunting and animal husbandry probably seems rather fine to the man in the street, or even to your typical rule-utilitarian moral philosopher. The distinction, however, is obvious to an ecologist. If one defends killing on the grounds that it occurs in nature, then one is defending the practice as it occurs in nature.
"When one species of animal preys on another in nature, it only preys on a very small proportion of the total species population. Obviously, the predator species relies on its prey for its continued survival. Therefore, to wipe the prey species out through overhunting would be fatal. In practice, members of such predator species rely on such strategies as territoriality to restrict overhunting and to insure the continued existence of its food supply.
"Moreover, only the weakest members of the prey species are the predator's victims: the feeble, the sick, the lame, or the young accidentally separated from the fold. The life of the typical zebra is usually placid, even in lion country; this kind of violence is the exception in nature, not the rule.
"As it exists in the wild, hunting is the preying upon isolated members of an animal herd. Animal husbandry is the nearly complete annihilation of an animal herd. In nature, this kind of slaughter does not exist. The philosopher is free to argue that there is no moral difference between hunting and slaughter, but he cannot invoke nature as a defense of this idea.
"Why are hunters, not butchers, most frequently taken to task by the larger community for their killing of animals? Hunters usually react to such criticism by replying that if hunting is wrong, then meat-hunting must be wrong as well. The hunter is certainly right on one point--the larger community is hypocritical to object to hunting when it consumes the flesh of domesticated animals. If any form of meat-eating is justified, it would be meat from a hunted animal."
In his 1975 book, Animal Liberation, Australian philosopher Peter Singer writes:
"Killing an animal is in itself a troubling act. It has been said that if we had to kill our own meat we would all be vegetarians. There may be exceptions to that general rule, but it is true that most people prefer not to inquire into the killing of the animals they eat.
"Very few people ever visit a slaughterhouse; and films of slaughterhouse operations are rarely shown on television...Yet those who, by their purchases, require animals to be killed have no right to be shielded from this or any other aspect of the production of the meat they buy.
"If it is distasteful for humans to think about, what can it be like for the animals to experience it?"
Peter Singer concludes that "by ceasing to rear and kill animals for food, we can make extra food available for humans that, properly distributed, it would eliminate starvation and malnutrition from this planet. Animal Liberation is Human Liberation, too."
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Posted by: Darklady on Nov 27, 2008 12:28 PM
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If one has decided to embrace an omnivorous diet, one can still work to make sure as little suffering as possible took place. Small, local, often organic and/or non-hormone feeding farms can be a solution.
As for Palin's latest demonstration of GOP leadership skills -- I generally find any program that depicts the actual death of a creature as being tasteless unless it's an anthropological program that provides context. Those generally depict people who have an actual respect for the animals they'll eat, however, and an appreciation for the sacrifice they've made. I detect no such perspective from Palin.
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» You got that right about factory farming. It's not only cruel but totally unhealthy.
Posted by: maxpayne
» that was a family farm?
Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals
» You don't know jack about family farms so shut the fuck up.
Posted by: maxpayne
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Posted by: maxpayne on Nov 27, 2008 12:46 PM
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And Alternet, Huffpost, etc ..., leave Paling alone already ! She already lost and the election is OVER even on the Senate side where Begich won !
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Posted by: JohnTodd on Nov 27, 2008 1:43 PM
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And, perhaps best of all, since they are living things, they reproduce and grow! Once you buy a colony you never have to buy it again.
Same thing applies to Kombucha, which is fermented from Tea.
Do a search for those words, Kefir and Kombucha. No need to harm animals when you have these things available.
Disclaimer: I still eat meat. I make no claims to being a vegt., although I am considering it in the future.
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Posted by: akbirdwm on Nov 27, 2008 2:56 PM
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Posted by: vasumurti on Nov 27, 2008 8:54 PM
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"A reduction in beef and other meat consumption is the most potent single act you can take to halt the destruction of our environment and preserve our natural resources. Our choices do matter: What's healthiest for each of us personally is also healthiest for the life support system of our precious, but wounded planet."
---John Robbins, author, Diet for a New America, and President, EarthSave Foundation
One study puts animal waste in the United States to between 2.4 trillion to 3.9 trillion pounds per year. The United states produces 15,000 pounds of manure per person. This is 130 times the amount of waste produced by the entire human population of the United States.
A 1,000-cow dairy can produce approximately 120,000 pounds of waste per day. This is the functional equivalent of the amount of sanitary waste produced by a city of 20,000 people.
A 20,000-chicken factory produces about 2.4 million pounds of manure a year. Poultry factories are one of the fastest growing industries throughout Asia.
One pig excretes nearly three gallons of waste per day, or 2.5 times the average human's daily total. One hog farm with 50,000 pigs in France produces more waste than the entire city of Los Angeles, and some pig farms are much larger.
Factory farm pollution is the primary source of damage to coastal waters in North and South America, Europe, and Asia. Scientists report that over sixty percent of the coastal waters in the United States are moderately to severely degraded from factory farm nutrient pollution. This pollution creates oxygen-depleted dead zones, which are huge areas of ocean devoid of aquatic life.
Meat production causes deforestation, which then contributes to global warming. Trees convert carbon dioxide into oxygen, and the destruction of forests around the globe to make room for grazing cattle furthers the greenhouse effect. The Food and Agricultural Organization of the United Nations reports that the annual rate of tropical deforestation has increased from 9 million hectares in 1980 to 16.8 million hectares in 1990, and unfortunately, this destruction has accelerated since then. By 1994, a staggering 200 million hectares of rainforest had been destroyed in South America just for cattle.
"The impact of countless hooves and mouths over the years has done more to alter the type of vegetation and land forms of the West than all the water projects, strip mines, power plants, freeways, and sub-division developments combined."
---Philip Fradkin, in Audubon, National Audubon Society, New York
Agricultural meat production generates air pollution. As manure decomposes, it releases over 400 volatile organic compounds, many of which are extremely harmful to human health. Nitrogen, a major by-product of animal wastes, changes to ammonia as it escapes into the air, and this is a major source of acid rain. Worldwide, livestock produce over 30 million tons of ammonia. Hydrogen sulfide, another chemical released from animal waste, can cause irreversible neurological damage, even at low levels.
The world Conservation Union lists over 1,000 different fish species that are threatened or endangered. According to the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) estimate, over 60 percent of the world's fish species are either fully exploited or depleted. Commercial fish populations of cod, hake, haddock, and flounder have fallen by as much as 95 percent in the north Atlantic.
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Posted by: vasumurti on Nov 27, 2008 8:55 PM
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The United States and Europe lose several billion tons of topsoil each year from cropland and grazing land, and 84 percent of this erosion is caused by livestock agriculture. While this soil is theoretically a renewable resource, we are losing soil at a much faster rate than we are able to replace it. It takes 100 to 500 years to produce one inch of topsoil, but due to livestock grazing and feeding, farming areas can lose up to six inches of topsoil a year.
Livestock production affects a startling 70 to 85 percent of the land area of the United States, United Kingdom, and the European Union. That includes the public and private rangeland used for grazing, as well as the land used to produce the crops that feed the animals. By comparison, urbanization only affects 3 percent of the United States land area, slightly larger for the European Union and the United Kingdom. Meat production consumes the world's land resources.
Half of all fresh water worldwide is used for thirsty livestock. Producing eight ounces of beef requires an unimaginable 25,000 liters of water, or the water necessary for one pound of steak equals the water consumption of the average household for a year.
The United States government spends $10 million each year to kill an estimated 100,000 wild animals, including coyotes, foxes, bobcats, badgers, bears, and mountain lions just to placate ranchers who don't want these animals killing their livestock. The cost far outweighs the damage to livestock that these predators cause.
The Worldwatch Institute estimates one pound of steak from a steer raised in a feedlot costs: five pounds of grain, a whopping 2,500 gallons of water, the energy equivalent of a gallon of gasoline, and about 34 pounds of topsoil.
33 percent of our nation's raw materials and fossil fuels go into livestock destined for slaughter. In a vegan economy, only 2 percent of our resources will go to the production of food.
"It seems disingenuous for the intellectual elite of the first world to dwell on the subject of too many babies being born in the second- and third-world nations while virtually ignoring the overpopulation of cattle and the realities of a food chain that robs the poor of sustenance to feed the rich a steady diet of grain-fed meat."
---Jeremy Rifkin, author, Beyond Beef: The Rise and Fall of the Cattle Culture, and president of the Greenhouse Crisis Foundation
Lester Brown of the Overseas Development Council calculates that if Americans reduced their meat consumption by only 10 percent per year, it would free at least 12 million tons of grain for human consumption--or enough to feed 60 million people.
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Posted by: wisegalah on Nov 27, 2008 9:08 PM
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I was vegetarain for many years but now eat small quantities of meat from time to time.
Flesh is flesh, vegetable or animal.
What is important is to accept with gratitude what is given or one has earned to eat and to be filled with respect for the living organisms which have lived to keep you alive.
Those who work in the turkey industry become deadened in their minds and hearts to their fellow creatures. They are as dead as the corpses they process.
I am not a muslim but find something touching in the slaugher practices of that tradition.
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Posted by: vasumurti on Nov 27, 2008 9:13 PM
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Brother Wayne Teasdale, a Benedictine monk who passed away a few years ago, wrote in 1995: "...it is necessary to elevate nonviolence to a noble place in our civilization of loving compassion because nonviolence as ahimsa in the Hindu tradition, a tradition that seems to possess the most advanced understanding of nonviolence, IS love! Love is the goal and ultimate nature of nonviolence as an inner disposition and commitment of the heart. It is the fulfillment of love and compassion in the social sphere, that is, in the normal course of relations among people in the matrix of society."
Contemporary Hindu spiritual masters have taught that if one wishes to eat cow's flesh (or the flesh of any other animal for that matter), one should wait until the animal dies of natural causes, rather than take the life of a fellow creature. This indicates that we are vegetarian first and foremost out of nonviolence towards and compassion for animals, rather than because we follow "dietary laws."
A popular vegetarian bumper sticker reads: "Vegetarianism is Love in Action." The number of animals killed for food is 70 times larger than the number of animals killed in laboratories, 30 times larger than the number killed by hunters and trappers, and 500 times larger than the number of animals killed in animal pounds. So if we really want to end animal cruelty, vegetarianism and veganism would be a good place to start!
Roberta Kalechofsky of Jews for Animal Rights similarly says:
"Merely by ceasing to eat meat
Merely by practicing restraint
We have the power to end a painful industry
"We do not have to bear arms to end this evil,
We do not have to contribute money,
We do not have to sit in jail or go to
meetings or demonstrations or
engage in acts of civil disobedience
"Most often, the act of repairing the world,
of healing mortal wounds,
is left to heroes and tzaddikim (holy people)
Saints and people of unusual discipline
"But here is an action every mortal can
perform--surely it is not too difficult!"
During the height of Beatlemania, John Lennon was asked by a reporter, "Does your hair require any special attention?" Lennon replied, "Inattention is the main thing." Similarly, with vegetarianism, we're not asking people to engage in activity--we're asking them to REFRAIN from engaging in an activity. By refraining from eating animals, they are, in effect, refraining from killing them.
By refraining from eating animals, refraining from using products tested on animals, refraining from patronizing forms of "entertainment" that use animals, refraining from wearing the furs or skins of animals, etc., we are, in effect, refraining from harming and killing animals altogether...just as pro-life Christians who refuse vaccines containing aborted fetal cells are refraining from contributing to the death of another human being.
Christians are sometimes reluctant to engage in what they misunderstand to be "good works," but again, we're not asking them to perform good deeds, just to REFRAIN FROM KILLING. This is not merely an academic point, it's one I make when discussing current trends in animal liberation theology:
Perhaps the real question true believers should be asking themselves with regards to animal rights and vegetarianism is not "Why should Christians abstain from certain foods?", but rather, "Why should Christians want to harm or kill God's innocent creatures in the first place?"
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Posted by: georgiaorwell on Nov 27, 2008 11:07 PM
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Kicking and deliberately maliciously prodding animals and being sadistic in dealing with them in the method of killing them seems to largely go with the territory with these types of employees, and people surely do not condone this kind of behavior. I understand there are many who want their 'meat fix' and I'm not saying eating meat is bad - but the barbaric way in which these animals are treated must stop. Boycott eating meat for a week or two and those corporate places that allow this insanity. The whole Thanksgiving thing is a joke anyway. The way the First Nation people have been treated in our country is just as bad - check out Pine Ridge Reservation in N. Dakota.
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Posted by: ladyoracle on Nov 28, 2008 12:47 AM
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Posted by: sirios on Nov 28, 2008 7:41 AM
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Posted by: Beck on Nov 28, 2008 8:03 AM
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"Vitamin B-12. Many vegetarians lack
vitamin B-12 simply because it does not exist
naturally in any non-animal forms. Vegetarians
should seek out vitamin B-12 fortified foods,
such as certain soy milks and cereals to
supplement what they lack. "
We do have modern supplements in recent history. But only in recent history. If a diet needs a supplement, it's not a natural human diet.
http://brucefriedrich.org/Top_Five_Nutrients.html
An Oxford U. study showed no differences in longevity between vegetarians and omnivores except for neurological diseases, which lack of B12 exacerbates.
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» Wow!
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Wow!
Posted by: brunowe
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Posted by: vasumurti on Nov 28, 2008 11:54 AM
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Keith Akers writes in A Vegetarian Sourcebook (1983):
"There is no question that lacto-ovo-vegetarians easily obtain enough vitamin B-12; dairy products and eggs are generous suppliers of vitamin B-12. The controversy pertains only to those who live on plant foods and do not eat any animal foods at all--the 'total vegetarians' or 'vegans.'...The evidence shows, however, that there are numerous sources of vitamin B-12 other than animal foods, and that vitamin B-12 is not a particularly difficult vitamin to get. In short, the Great Vitamin B-12 Controversy, like the protein controversy, is largely generated by lack of information concerning already available research data.
"Only incredibly small quantities of vitamin B-12 are thought to be needed in the diet. According to the National Research Council, 3 micrograms daily will meet the body's requirements. but Victor Herbert, a noted authority on the subject, puts the requirement at 0.1 micrograms, making even the National Research Council's microscopic figure 30 times in excess of the actual need."
John Robbins, author of the Pulitzer Prize nominated Diet for a New America (1987), says that vitamin B-12 is found naturally in the environment around us; on the dirt on a carrot pulled out of the ground, in rainwater, etc., but we live in a sanitized society, removed from nature.
Keith Akers similarly observes:
"Vitamin B-12 has been found in rainwater and in many plant foods. In small quantities, Vitamin B-12 has been found either in or on various foods such as the roots and stems of tomatoes, cabbage, celery, kale, broccoli, leeks, and the leaves of kohlrabi. An ounce of the roots of leeks, beets, and other vegetables will provide 0.1 to 0.3 micrograms of B-12, which is more than a day's requirement.
"There are other plant foods which provide 'massive' quantities of vitamin B-12 -- 'massive,' that is, in relation to human requirements for the vitamin. These include nutritional yeast, tempeh, seaweed, algae, kelp, and fermented soy sauces. The human liver can store vitamin B-12 for years, so once it is ingested from one of these sources, one can go for long periods of time without having to worry about a source of B-12."
The Garden of Eden was vegan, but veganism as an historical trend is a recent phenomenon.
The Vegan Society was formed in England in 1944.
In his 1979 book, Vegetarianism: A Way of Life, Dudley Giehl writes that some ancient Egyptian priests were vegetarian to help them with their vows of celibacy and that they avoided eggs and milk, which they called "liquid flesh." Giehl also writes that Leonardo da Vinci was a vegan, out of ethical concern for animals.
In his 1923 book, The Natural Diet of Man, Adventist physician Dr. John Harvey Kellogg
writes:
"The Ladrone Islands were discovered by the Spaniards around 1620. There were
no animals on the islands except birds, which the natives did not eat. The natives had
never seen fire, and they lived entirely on plant foods--fruits and roots in their
natural state. They were found to be vigorous, active, and of good longevity."
Americans should go vegetarian or vegan.
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Posted by: jazmin623 on Nov 28, 2008 9:43 PM
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GUILA MANCHESTER
The card I send to you this year
Will not be thoughts of Christmas cheer
Or Santa riding in a sleigh
With loads of gifts to come your way.
A starving dog, a homeless cat,
A beaver lying in a trap,
A sparrow punctured in the eyes
To win some kid a science prize,
A horse that's trampled in a ditch
To make a movie baron rich,
A tiny baby left alone,
Old folks forgotten in a home.
If you believe in God at all,
Then love His creatures, great and small,
And help in any way you can
A suffering beast or bird or man.
If you believe these things are wrong
Then let this be your Christmas song
And raise your voice with all your might,
For only you can make them right.
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Posted by: jazmin623 on Nov 29, 2008 12:37 PM
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The factory farming system of modern agriculture strives to maximize output while minimizing costs. Cows, calves, pigs, chickens, turkeys, ducks, geese, and other animals are kept in small cages, in jam-packed sheds, or on filthy feedlots, often with so little space that they can't even turn around or lie down comfortably. They are deprived of exercise so that all their bodies' energy goes toward producing flesh, eggs, or milk for human consumption. The giant corporations that run most factory farms have found that they can make more money by cramming animals into tiny spaces, even though many of the animals get sick and some die. Industry journal National Hog Farmer explains, "Crowding Pigs Pays," and egg-industry expert Bernard Rollins writes that "chickens are cheap; cages are expensive."
They are fed drugs to fatten them faster and to keep them alive in conditions that would otherwise kill them, and they are genetically altered to grow faster or to produce much more milk or eggs than they would naturally. Many animals become crippled under their own weight and die within inches of water and food.
While the suffering of all animals on factory farms is similar, each type of farmed animal faces different types of cruelty.
http://www.goveg.com/factoryFarming.asp
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Posted by: jazmin623 on Nov 29, 2008 12:44 PM
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The heart is the hardest working muscle in the body, pumping blood, oxygen, & nutrients to all the body’s organs. A healthy heart is a prescription for a healthy body.
Eating animal-based foods impairs the heart’s ability to do its job. Meat & dairy products are high in cholesterol and saturated fat. As these fatty substances, or “plaques,” build up inside the walls of arteries, blood flow to all areas of the body is impeded. This artery damage is called atherosclerosis.
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Posted by: jazmin623 on Nov 29, 2008 12:48 PM
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Read about specific carcinogens in meat, such as arsenic in chicken and mercury in fish:
http://www.goveg.com/cancer_meat.asp
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Posted by: jazmin623 on Nov 29, 2008 12:51 PM
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Atherosclerosis
According to Teresa Fung, a researcher who studies strokes at the Harvard School of Public Health, "In essence, an ischemic stroke is much like a heart attack that occurs in your brain and [that] can result from atherosclerosis."6 Atherosclerosis is the narrowing and hardening of our blood vessels that is caused by the consumption of saturated fat and cholesterol. Meat, eggs, and dairy products are the leading sources of saturated fat and the only sources of cholesterol in the human diet. Although the average cholesterol level in the U.S. is 210, the average vegetarian in the U.S. has a cholesterol level of 161, and the average American vegan has a cholesterol level of 133.7
Since vegetarians have lower cholesterol levels and lower intakes of saturated fat than meat-eaters do, they are less likely to suffer from the hardened and clogged arteries that often lead to heart disease and strokes.
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Posted by: jazmin623 on Nov 29, 2008 1:06 PM
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High cholesterol, obesity, diabetes, prostate cancers or inflammations, and hormonal imbalances cause the vast majority of all cases of impotence. The good news is that medical science has proved that all of these conditions can be virtually eliminated (and even cured) with a low-fat vegan diet.
High Cholesterol-
"I don't understand why asking people to eat a well-balanced vegetarian diet is drastic, while it's mediclly conservative to cut people open or put then on powerful cholesterol=lowering drugs the rest of their lives." -Dean Ornish, MD
Obesity & Diabetes
A man with a 42-inch waistline is nearly twice as likely to fall victim to impotence as a man with a 32-inch waistline.
But there is good news! A healthy vegan diet promotes a fit and slim figure. It is estimated that only about 2 percent of American vegans are clinically obese compared to 18 percent of meat-eating Americans. Obesity causes much more than your middle section to go soft. This is yet another excellent reason to go vegan and slim down.
Hormonal Concerns
High Blood Pressure
http://www.goveg.com/impotence.asp
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Posted by: jazmin623 on Nov 29, 2008 1:12 PM
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**********
Protecting Our Children From Obesity-
Kids in the U.S. are getting fatter for the same reasons that adults are getting fatter: The typical Western diet, which relies heavily on animal foods, is high in fat and cholesterol and is the major cause of obesity and coronary heart disease.
**********
It’s the easiest ‘diet’ I’ve ever been on—I saw results right away.”
Before: 200+ pounds, size 16
After: 134 pounds, size 6
Read Leah’s story:
http://www.goveg.com/f-veganweightloss.asp
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Posted by: jazmin623 on Nov 29, 2008 1:19 PM
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"Studies have shown that risk for AD [Alzheimer's disease] is greater in people who consume diets high in cholesterol, saturated fats, & total calorie & low in fiber, vegetables, & fruits."-Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine
Also See:
Meat Hinders Heart & Head
Meat Vs. Veggie Amino Acids
Alzheimer's & Free Radicals
The Veggie Solution
Fat, Fish & Intelligence
http://www.goveg.com/alzheimers.asp
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Posted by: jazmin623 on Nov 29, 2008 1:23 PM
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http://www.goveg.com/AnimalBorneDiseases.asp
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Posted by: jazmin623 on Nov 29, 2008 1:26 PM
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A few of the most prominent reasons include the high amount of fiber in plant foods, the lack of artery-clogging cholesterol and saturated animal fats in vegetarian diets, differences between the types of iron found in animal flesh and plant foods, and the fact that vegetarians tend to weigh less and have less excess body fat than meat-eaters do (maintaining a healthy weight is an extremely important factor in preventing and treating diabetes.
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Posted by: jazmin623 on Nov 29, 2008 1:34 PM
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******
Organic and Hormone-Free: Conning Consumers-
Some health-conscious consumers have turned to organic milk and flesh because they think it’s hormone-free, but they are mistaken. Despite its label, “organic” animal products are often treated with hormones—when inspectors in the European Union randomly sampled “hormone-free” cow flesh from the U.S., they found that 12 percent of the meat had been treated with powerful hormones that are banned in Europe!
http://www.goveg.com/contamination_other.asp
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Posted by: Xynyx on Nov 27, 2008 1:36 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. If you eat turkeys, you don't see them as creatures in need of compassion... at least, not enough to keep you from killing them or paying to have them killed so you can eat them.
2. If you eat turkeys (or chickens... or ducks... or cows... etc.), this is what you are getting. It's brutal, sure... but you pay for it. If you can't face the reality of what you are paying for, perhaps you should consider how you are spending your money.
3. Albert Schweitzer: "Think occasionally of the suffering of which you spare yourself the sight"
To behave in this fashion... sparing yourself the sight of such suffering, allows you to be "good Germans". Isn't that nice.
4. Politically... progressives should drop this thing about Palin being interviewed with a turkey being pulled apart behind her. Conservatives will use it to further embed the idea that progressives are just a bunch of pansies who can't bare the realities associated with their choices. Get over it.
If you're going to eat animals, eat animals... and accept that it is likely that some amount of suffering and brutality is going to come with it. I'm not suggesting that you inure yourselves to such things... but you kind of do need to accept that you are responsible for them.
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» RE: Allow me to be the first...
Posted by: Ka-bird
» RE: Allow me to be the first...No, allow me
Posted by: Beck
» vegetarians eat no dead animals- period
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: vegetarians eat no dead animals- period
Posted by: mr. joshua
» RE: vegetarians eat no dead animals- period
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: vegetarians eat no dead animals- period
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: vegetarians eat no dead animals- period
Posted by: babs
» RE: B12 is available...
Posted by: fearn
» RE: Allow me to be the first...No, allow me
Posted by: sirios
» RE: B12
Posted by: Plexius2
» RE: B12
Posted by: Xynyx
» Very Wrong
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» B12 is sorely lacking in typical corn-fed shit, not in grass-fed/pasture raised meat and diary.
Posted by: maxpayne
» ...to demonstrate the intellectual and moral consequences of eating animals...
Posted by: bornxeyed
» Wow
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» There are no moral consequences. We are food, and we eat food.
Posted by: Beck
» RE: There are no moral consequences. We are food, and we eat food.
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: There are no moral consequences. This is mostly directed to beck
Posted by: sirios
» POPULATION!!!!
Posted by: pelican beak
» RE: Allow me to be the first...No, allow me
Posted by: orwellturns
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Suzon on Nov 27, 2008 2:20 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's important to recognize how agribusinesses increase animal suffering but it's also important to recognize how their practices degrade the people they hire to do the killing.
In an ideal world, the CEOs would do the dirty work.
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» RE: we despise what we harm (see Stanley Milgram on Obedience to Authority)
Posted by: ehensleyky
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Posted by: teel on Nov 27, 2008 2:26 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you would be unable for moral reasons to kill the animal you intend to eat with your own hands then you are disqualified from eating it. Letting someone else do your dirty work and looking the other way makes you a hypocrite plain and simple.
Personally I love meat, not turkey so much but I eat plenty of chicken, seafood and fish. I have no trouble cracking the neck of a fish I just caught and I have no issue chopping off the head of a chicken for my dinner. If you can't do it then you don't deserve to eat it.
What I do object to are cruel death factories staffed by sadistic people with cattle prods causing undue harm to the animals. I would be happy to cut down on my intake to allow animals to grow on a farm on a scale that is reasonable and then terminated as gently as possible. I don't see eating meat as morally wrong per say, but the industrialization of it is disgusting.
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» Thanks, but there are many things I don't want to taken action on, but still participate in
Posted by: Beck
» by your assessment, if they're eating meat, how come they're deficient in iron and B12?
Posted by: Smackback
» RE: by your assessment, if they're eating meat, how come they're deficient in iron and B12?
Posted by: Beck
» RE: by your assessment, if they're eating meat, how come they're deficient in iron and B12?
Posted by: bornxeyed
» absurd presumption!
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: absurd presumption! Here's why I say that.
Posted by: Beck
» i hope you correct every one of those people listed above
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: i hope you correct every one of those people listed above
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» Ten bucks she invented most of those in her list
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» RE: absurd presumption! Here's why I say that.
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Thanks, but there are many things I don't want to taken action on, but still participate in
Posted by: babs
» I also gave up meat
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
» Rationalizations
Posted by: Tricia
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Tom Degan on Nov 27, 2008 2:36 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Does that gal even have a clue?
No Ordinary Team of Rivals
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
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» RE: Turkey Girl
Posted by: Moira61
» RE: Turkey Girl
Posted by: lenioui
» I especially liked the irony...
Posted by: bornxeyed
» By her ramblings I don't think so...
Posted by: WhuThe?!?
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Nightstallion on Nov 27, 2008 3:03 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some of my kinds of folk are out on the street starving . . . . I really don't think they give a fuck how the bird gets to the table or even if there is a table; some of us have to peruse garbage cans just to be present tomorrow and not on the county slab!
Who on this green earth will deny a starving man a meal? No, you don't have to dissemble and look no farther than your own mirror!
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» RE: Forgive me idiots but Sarah Palin (loathsome creature that she is) did not write this article . . .
Posted by: NickJones
» Silly, silly, silly (and patronizing)
Posted by: brucegfriedrich
» RE: Forgive me idiots but Sarah Palin (loathsome creature that she is) did not write this article .
Posted by: babs
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Nightstallion on Nov 27, 2008 3:06 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Vegitarians! Are you fucking kidding?
Posted by: NickJones
» Living?
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Vegitarians! Are you fucking kidding?
Posted by: sirios
» RE: Vegitarians! Are you fucking kidding?
Posted by: gilliani
» RE: Vegitarians! Are you fucking kidding?
Posted by: Beck
» real vegetarians don't eat animals.
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: Vegitarians! Are you fucking kidding?
Posted by: gilliani
» RE: Vegitarians! Are you fucking kidding?
Posted by: babs
» RE: Vegitarians! Are you fucking kidding?
Posted by: pelican beak
» Don't hold back....
Posted by: 2thepoint
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ShoShenQ on Nov 27, 2008 4:06 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Btw plants have rights as well, I shiver when I think about all those poor soya beans, slaughtered to feed all those hungry vegetarian maws, why are you so cruel guys ? Its my belief that plants should be spared and only animals should be eaten, so what ?
Ludicrous people...
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» RE: a useless article
Posted by: gilliani
» Its convenient not to...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: a useless article
Posted by: morninmist
» RE: a useless article
Posted by: babs
» fewer plants suffer for a vegn diet
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: a useless article
Posted by: bornxeyed
Comments are closed-
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Nov 27, 2008 4:07 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think it's a bit extreme to suggest it's a moral crime to eat meat, as some self-righteous vegetarians seem to do. Are lions, tigers, and bears criminals?
In one of the local parks, there's this pond that accumulates during the rain. In it, there are hundreds of fish who slowly die every summer as the pond dries out. What will becoming a vegetarian do for them? If I were one of them, I think I would rather have lived a short but happy life and become food for some hungry fisherman.
So I think the message ought to be about cruel factory methods, and not about vegetarianism. If Palin were to hunt for a non-endangered animal herself, shoot it as quickly and painlessly as possible, eat it herself, use the bones to make handles for her kitchenware, use the skin to make rugs or clothes for her family, etc., I wouldn't condemn her for it. I have plenty of other things to condemn her for.
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» RE: Vegetarians
Posted by: clvngodess
» Vegans are the Left's fundamentalists
Posted by: Smackback
» RE: Vegans are the Left's fundamentalists
Posted by: babs
» RE: Vegans are the Left's fundamentalists
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Vegans are the Left's fundamentalists
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Vegetarians
Posted by: lenioui
» RE: Vegetarians
Posted by: bornxeyed
Comments are closed-
Posted by: la nurse on Nov 27, 2008 4:11 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've learned that running grain through an animal is one reason why, globally, people have less to eat. It is not efficient. In addition, animal farming is a very significant source of pollution.
I eat cheaper and much more healthy because of these changes. I have reduced the risk of many diseases by eliminating meat and dairy products. It is quite easy to change dietary habits once you decide to make those changes and have a good reason to do so. Why wait for a heart attack?
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» RE: L. A.
Posted by: NickJones
» RE: L. A.
Posted by: gilliani
» RE: L. A.
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: L. A.
Posted by: bornxeyed
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Gregory Kruse on Nov 27, 2008 5:06 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: morninmist on Nov 27, 2008 5:18 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Get a live and go out and do something constructive if you are concerned about how turkeys get to our tables.
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» RE: morningmist
Posted by: morticia
Comments are closed-
Posted by: raine1 on Nov 27, 2008 5:22 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» What a wonderful post. Thank you for your perspective. -nt-
Posted by: Smackback
» Both parties are responsible for allowing Big Agri to crush family farms.
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: The family farm
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: The family farm
Posted by: yesman
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Carol Burns on Nov 27, 2008 5:53 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: weathered on Nov 27, 2008 6:11 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Cute Martha, why don't
Posted by: babs
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Posted by: 2thepoint on Nov 27, 2008 6:20 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The current American population, especially those that live in cities, have become insulated as to how they live. People seem to think hamburgers just "are" . No thought as to how it came into existence. Clothing or other consumer items just appear. Food just naturally belongs in a can or a package.
No or little thought is given to how all this happens or what it takes to live.
Maybe Palins realistic connection to how what it takes to really live will open many eyes! Somehow I doubt it though.
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» No, not if she continues shooting wolves from a helicopter.
Posted by: Beck
» shooting wolves from a helicopter is legal and desirable.
Posted by: CalKid
» Wolf population
Posted by: bornxeyed
» Wrong, humans are out of control, not wolves.
Posted by: yale
» RE: Wrong, humans are out of control, not wolves.
Posted by: 2thepoint
Comments are closed-
Posted by: dancingcloud on Nov 27, 2008 6:51 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Beck on Nov 27, 2008 6:58 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Verse from the Book of Romans
Posted by: dancingcloud
» Jesus eating flesh? Debatable. But he clearly had no problem if others ate it.
Posted by: Smackback
» RE: Jesus eating flesh? Debatable. But he clearly had no problem if others ate it.
Posted by: bornxeyed
» Romans 14 indicates we are not to impose our own matters of conscience upon others
Posted by: Smackback
» weak eat only vegetables
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» TYPO CORRECTED: weak eat only vegetables
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» RE: Verse from the Book of Romans
Posted by: babs
» the Bible approved of slavery (part 1)
Posted by: vasumurti
» the Bible approved of slavery (part 2)
Posted by: vasumurti
Comments are closed-
Posted by: jeffrey7 on Nov 27, 2008 7:08 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone who is so stupid as to think giving an interview from the 'killing floor' is good PR,seriously need deep psychological help.
I'll bet she'll be one that thinks it's a good idea to chew through her soon to be grandchild's ambilical cord.
Do the world a favor Sarah and take a ride on a calving glacier.
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Posted by: BST on Nov 27, 2008 7:28 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Try this: Ask 10 people on the street to match foods on their table, like veal, to a picture of the source. Ask the same about Brussel sprouts or beef. I'll bet most of them flunk.
We have effectively shut ourselves off from gratitude -- at the very least -- that should come from consuming another living thing.
I am a vegetarian. While I do not nag and preach to others, I would be far happier if all of us really knew where our food comes from, the way in which animals are treated and how that should inform our decisions.
For me, the thought of animal cruelty to feed a greedy market of consumers who more often than not eat either too much or waste what they have, is excessively distressing. Buddhists say that the fear and anger in your food source becaomes part of your own body.
I have far more respect for the small free-range farmers and the expert hunters who gather, then consume. They do the best they can to prevent suffering and they know the truths the rest of us often do not.
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» I agree, with all you said, but I still choose to eat meat from family farmers
Posted by: Smackback
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Posted by: Archie1954 on Nov 27, 2008 8:24 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Meat
Posted by: sanaa
» RE: Meat
Posted by: bornxeyed
Comments are closed-
Posted by: caru on Nov 27, 2008 9:23 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
now thats thinking.
if you eat meat you are eating fear. can you imagine these animals dying without fear?
antibiotics, toxins and fear, let us eat it right now. and we do. and we get what we eat.
ive heard that the most powerful food is the food most directly connected to the sun. if one can eat straight out of the garden, yes the garden of earth, one eats the most highest vibration.
ive also heard of breatharians. imagine. just breathing.
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Posted by: Auk on Nov 27, 2008 9:58 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Although I am unlikely ever to be a hunter again, I was a VERY good shot when I was a hunter, and my relatives in rural Pennsylvania are Barack Obama's "bitter" people who "cling" to their guns & religion, etc. etc. -- and many of them still voted for Obama! -- and I think when they shoot one deer to deed themselves for a whole winter, they are doing the rest of us a favor. There are too many deer out there to collide with your car, or give you Lime disease or EEE in the summer, and venison is an economical and traditional American way to get through a depression.
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» wild turkeys too!
Posted by: Auk
» RE: Has nothing to do with Sarah Palin or factory farming
Posted by: babs
» Sigh. Lyme Disease.
Posted by: Auk
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Posted by: morticia on Nov 27, 2008 10:38 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals on Nov 27, 2008 11:21 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: reality
Posted by: babs
» Every State had the right Contorl there Wild life
Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals
» RE: very State had the right Contorl there Wild life
Posted by: bornxeyed
» Where is the proof?
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» Maybe so but, but the helicopter thing is way out of line with true outdoors folks.
Posted by: yale
Comments are closed-
Posted by: prtsimmons on Nov 27, 2008 12:13 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Find a local, ethical farmer, or kill your own meat, or give up on the whole sick enterprise. If you think meat comes from the frozen foods section, you are the problem. I have a lot more respect for the hunters out there than I do for the people who support the factory food industry. If the cruelty wasn't enough of a reason to stop eating meat wrapped in plastic, please be aware that you are contributing to the next great food scare: might be mad cow, might be listeria, might be E. coli, might be bird flu, might be something totally new, but it will come if we keep treating animals like this.
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» RE: I finally found something I respect Ms. Palin for
Posted by: babs
» RE: I finally found something I respect Ms. Palin for
Posted by: bornxeyed
Comments are closed-
Posted by: vasumurti on Nov 27, 2008 12:25 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In The Human Story, edited by Marie-Louise Makris (1985), we read: "...recent studies of their teeth reveal that the Australopithecines did not eat meat as a regular part of their diet, and were mainly peaceful vegetarians, rather like chimps or gorillas. The popular image of the murderous ape is now as extinct as the Australopithecines themselves."
Dr. Gordon Latto notes that carnivorous and omnivorous animals can only move their jaws up and down, and that omnivores "have a blunt tooth, a sharp tooth, a blunt tooth, a sharp tooth--showing that they were destined to deal both with flesh foods from the animal kingdom and foods from the vegetable kingdom...
"Carnivorous mammals and omnivorous mammals cannot perspire except at the extremity of the limbs and the tip of the nose; man perspires all over the body. Finally, our instincts; the carnivorous mammal (which first of all has claws and canine teeth) is capable of tearing flesh asunder, whereas man only partakes of flesh foods after they have been camouflaged by cooking and by condiments.
"Man instinctively is not carnivorous," explains Dr. Latto. "...he takes the flesh food after somebody else has killed it, and after it has been cooked and camouflaged with certain condiments. Whereas to pick an apple off a tree or eat some grain or a carrot is a natural thing to do; people enjoy doing it; they don't feel disturbed by it. But to see these animals being slaughtered does affect people; it offends them. Even the toughest of people are affected by the sights in the slaughterhouse.
"I remember taking some medical students into a slaughterhouse. They were about as hardened people as you could meet. After seeing the animals slaughtered that day in the slaughterhouse, not one of them could eat the meat that evening."
Author R.H. Weldon writes in No Animal Food:
"The gorge of a cat, for instance, will rise at the smell of a mouse or a piece of raw flesh, but not at the aroma of fruit. If a man can take delight in pouncing upon a bird, tear its still living body apart with his teeth, sucking the warm blood, one might infer that Nature had provided him with a carnivorous instinct, but the very thought of doing such a thing makes him shudder. On the other hand, a bunch of luscious grapes makes his mouth water, and even in the absence of hunger, he will eat fruit to gratify taste."
As far back as 1961, the Journal of the American Medical Association reported that: "A vegetarian diet can prevent 97% of our coronary occlusions." More recently, Wiiliam S. Collens and Gerald B. Dobkens concluded: "Examination of the dental structure of modern man reveals that he possesses all the features of a strictly herbivorous animal. While designed to subsist on vegetarian foods, he has perverted his dietary habits to accept food of the carnivore. It is postulated that man cannot handle carnivorous foods like the carnivore. Herein may lie the basis for the high incidence of arteriosclerotic disease."
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Posted by: vasumurti on Nov 27, 2008 12:27 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"This is quite an admirable argument. It explains practically everything; why we do not eat each other, except under conditions of unusual stress; why we may kill certain other animals (they are, in the order of nature, food for us); even why we should be kind to pets and try to help miscellaneous wildlife (they are not naturally our food). There are some problems with the idea that an order of nature determines which species are food for us, but an examination of human history indicates the broad outlines of just such an order, though inhibitions against eating certain species may vary from culture to culture.
"The main problem with this argument is that it does not justify the practice of meat-eating or animal husbandry as we know it today; it justifies hunting. The distinction between hunting and animal husbandry probably seems rather fine to the man in the street, or even to your typical rule-utilitarian moral philosopher. The distinction, however, is obvious to an ecologist. If one defends killing on the grounds that it occurs in nature, then one is defending the practice as it occurs in nature.
"When one species of animal preys on another in nature, it only preys on a very small proportion of the total species population. Obviously, the predator species relies on its prey for its continued survival. Therefore, to wipe the prey species out through overhunting would be fatal. In practice, members of such predator species rely on such strategies as territoriality to restrict overhunting and to insure the continued existence of its food supply.
"Moreover, only the weakest members of the prey species are the predator's victims: the feeble, the sick, the lame, or the young accidentally separated from the fold. The life of the typical zebra is usually placid, even in lion country; this kind of violence is the exception in nature, not the rule.
"As it exists in the wild, hunting is the preying upon isolated members of an animal herd. Animal husbandry is the nearly complete annihilation of an animal herd. In nature, this kind of slaughter does not exist. The philosopher is free to argue that there is no moral difference between hunting and slaughter, but he cannot invoke nature as a defense of this idea.
"Why are hunters, not butchers, most frequently taken to task by the larger community for their killing of animals? Hunters usually react to such criticism by replying that if hunting is wrong, then meat-hunting must be wrong as well. The hunter is certainly right on one point--the larger community is hypocritical to object to hunting when it consumes the flesh of domesticated animals. If any form of meat-eating is justified, it would be meat from a hunted animal."
In his 1975 book, Animal Liberation, Australian philosopher Peter Singer writes:
"Killing an animal is in itself a troubling act. It has been said that if we had to kill our own meat we would all be vegetarians. There may be exceptions to that general rule, but it is true that most people prefer not to inquire into the killing of the animals they eat.
"Very few people ever visit a slaughterhouse; and films of slaughterhouse operations are rarely shown on television...Yet those who, by their purchases, require animals to be killed have no right to be shielded from this or any other aspect of the production of the meat they buy.
"If it is distasteful for humans to think about, what can it be like for the animals to experience it?"
Peter Singer concludes that "by ceasing to rear and kill animals for food, we can make extra food available for humans that, properly distributed, it would eliminate starvation and malnutrition from this planet. Animal Liberation is Human Liberation, too."
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Posted by: Darklady on Nov 27, 2008 12:28 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If one has decided to embrace an omnivorous diet, one can still work to make sure as little suffering as possible took place. Small, local, often organic and/or non-hormone feeding farms can be a solution.
As for Palin's latest demonstration of GOP leadership skills -- I generally find any program that depicts the actual death of a creature as being tasteless unless it's an anthropological program that provides context. Those generally depict people who have an actual respect for the animals they'll eat, however, and an appreciation for the sacrifice they've made. I detect no such perspective from Palin.
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» You got that right about factory farming. It's not only cruel but totally unhealthy.
Posted by: maxpayne
» that was a family farm?
Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals
» You don't know jack about family farms so shut the fuck up.
Posted by: maxpayne
Comments are closed-
Posted by: maxpayne on Nov 27, 2008 12:46 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And Alternet, Huffpost, etc ..., leave Paling alone already ! She already lost and the election is OVER even on the Senate side where Begich won !
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Posted by: JohnTodd on Nov 27, 2008 1:43 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And, perhaps best of all, since they are living things, they reproduce and grow! Once you buy a colony you never have to buy it again.
Same thing applies to Kombucha, which is fermented from Tea.
Do a search for those words, Kefir and Kombucha. No need to harm animals when you have these things available.
Disclaimer: I still eat meat. I make no claims to being a vegt., although I am considering it in the future.
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Posted by: akbirdwm on Nov 27, 2008 2:56 PM
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Posted by: vasumurti on Nov 27, 2008 8:54 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"A reduction in beef and other meat consumption is the most potent single act you can take to halt the destruction of our environment and preserve our natural resources. Our choices do matter: What's healthiest for each of us personally is also healthiest for the life support system of our precious, but wounded planet."
---John Robbins, author, Diet for a New America, and President, EarthSave Foundation
One study puts animal waste in the United States to between 2.4 trillion to 3.9 trillion pounds per year. The United states produces 15,000 pounds of manure per person. This is 130 times the amount of waste produced by the entire human population of the United States.
A 1,000-cow dairy can produce approximately 120,000 pounds of waste per day. This is the functional equivalent of the amount of sanitary waste produced by a city of 20,000 people.
A 20,000-chicken factory produces about 2.4 million pounds of manure a year. Poultry factories are one of the fastest growing industries throughout Asia.
One pig excretes nearly three gallons of waste per day, or 2.5 times the average human's daily total. One hog farm with 50,000 pigs in France produces more waste than the entire city of Los Angeles, and some pig farms are much larger.
Factory farm pollution is the primary source of damage to coastal waters in North and South America, Europe, and Asia. Scientists report that over sixty percent of the coastal waters in the United States are moderately to severely degraded from factory farm nutrient pollution. This pollution creates oxygen-depleted dead zones, which are huge areas of ocean devoid of aquatic life.
Meat production causes deforestation, which then contributes to global warming. Trees convert carbon dioxide into oxygen, and the destruction of forests around the globe to make room for grazing cattle furthers the greenhouse effect. The Food and Agricultural Organization of the United Nations reports that the annual rate of tropical deforestation has increased from 9 million hectares in 1980 to 16.8 million hectares in 1990, and unfortunately, this destruction has accelerated since then. By 1994, a staggering 200 million hectares of rainforest had been destroyed in South America just for cattle.
"The impact of countless hooves and mouths over the years has done more to alter the type of vegetation and land forms of the West than all the water projects, strip mines, power plants, freeways, and sub-division developments combined."
---Philip Fradkin, in Audubon, National Audubon Society, New York
Agricultural meat production generates air pollution. As manure decomposes, it releases over 400 volatile organic compounds, many of which are extremely harmful to human health. Nitrogen, a major by-product of animal wastes, changes to ammonia as it escapes into the air, and this is a major source of acid rain. Worldwide, livestock produce over 30 million tons of ammonia. Hydrogen sulfide, another chemical released from animal waste, can cause irreversible neurological damage, even at low levels.
The world Conservation Union lists over 1,000 different fish species that are threatened or endangered. According to the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) estimate, over 60 percent of the world's fish species are either fully exploited or depleted. Commercial fish populations of cod, hake, haddock, and flounder have fallen by as much as 95 percent in the north Atlantic.
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Posted by: vasumurti on Nov 27, 2008 8:55 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The United States and Europe lose several billion tons of topsoil each year from cropland and grazing land, and 84 percent of this erosion is caused by livestock agriculture. While this soil is theoretically a renewable resource, we are losing soil at a much faster rate than we are able to replace it. It takes 100 to 500 years to produce one inch of topsoil, but due to livestock grazing and feeding, farming areas can lose up to six inches of topsoil a year.
Livestock production affects a startling 70 to 85 percent of the land area of the United States, United Kingdom, and the European Union. That includes the public and private rangeland used for grazing, as well as the land used to produce the crops that feed the animals. By comparison, urbanization only affects 3 percent of the United States land area, slightly larger for the European Union and the United Kingdom. Meat production consumes the world's land resources.
Half of all fresh water worldwide is used for thirsty livestock. Producing eight ounces of beef requires an unimaginable 25,000 liters of water, or the water necessary for one pound of steak equals the water consumption of the average household for a year.
The United States government spends $10 million each year to kill an estimated 100,000 wild animals, including coyotes, foxes, bobcats, badgers, bears, and mountain lions just to placate ranchers who don't want these animals killing their livestock. The cost far outweighs the damage to livestock that these predators cause.
The Worldwatch Institute estimates one pound of steak from a steer raised in a feedlot costs: five pounds of grain, a whopping 2,500 gallons of water, the energy equivalent of a gallon of gasoline, and about 34 pounds of topsoil.
33 percent of our nation's raw materials and fossil fuels go into livestock destined for slaughter. In a vegan economy, only 2 percent of our resources will go to the production of food.
"It seems disingenuous for the intellectual elite of the first world to dwell on the subject of too many babies being born in the second- and third-world nations while virtually ignoring the overpopulation of cattle and the realities of a food chain that robs the poor of sustenance to feed the rich a steady diet of grain-fed meat."
---Jeremy Rifkin, author, Beyond Beef: The Rise and Fall of the Cattle Culture, and president of the Greenhouse Crisis Foundation
Lester Brown of the Overseas Development Council calculates that if Americans reduced their meat consumption by only 10 percent per year, it would free at least 12 million tons of grain for human consumption--or enough to feed 60 million people.
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Posted by: wisegalah on Nov 27, 2008 9:08 PM
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I was vegetarain for many years but now eat small quantities of meat from time to time.
Flesh is flesh, vegetable or animal.
What is important is to accept with gratitude what is given or one has earned to eat and to be filled with respect for the living organisms which have lived to keep you alive.
Those who work in the turkey industry become deadened in their minds and hearts to their fellow creatures. They are as dead as the corpses they process.
I am not a muslim but find something touching in the slaugher practices of that tradition.
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Posted by: vasumurti on Nov 27, 2008 9:13 PM
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Brother Wayne Teasdale, a Benedictine monk who passed away a few years ago, wrote in 1995: "...it is necessary to elevate nonviolence to a noble place in our civilization of loving compassion because nonviolence as ahimsa in the Hindu tradition, a tradition that seems to possess the most advanced understanding of nonviolence, IS love! Love is the goal and ultimate nature of nonviolence as an inner disposition and commitment of the heart. It is the fulfillment of love and compassion in the social sphere, that is, in the normal course of relations among people in the matrix of society."
Contemporary Hindu spiritual masters have taught that if one wishes to eat cow's flesh (or the flesh of any other animal for that matter), one should wait until the animal dies of natural causes, rather than take the life of a fellow creature. This indicates that we are vegetarian first and foremost out of nonviolence towards and compassion for animals, rather than because we follow "dietary laws."
A popular vegetarian bumper sticker reads: "Vegetarianism is Love in Action." The number of animals killed for food is 70 times larger than the number of animals killed in laboratories, 30 times larger than the number killed by hunters and trappers, and 500 times larger than the number of animals killed in animal pounds. So if we really want to end animal cruelty, vegetarianism and veganism would be a good place to start!
Roberta Kalechofsky of Jews for Animal Rights similarly says:
"Merely by ceasing to eat meat
Merely by practicing restraint
We have the power to end a painful industry
"We do not have to bear arms to end this evil,
We do not have to contribute money,
We do not have to sit in jail or go to
meetings or demonstrations or
engage in acts of civil disobedience
"Most often, the act of repairing the world,
of healing mortal wounds,
is left to heroes and tzaddikim (holy people)
Saints and people of unusual discipline
"But here is an action every mortal can
perform--surely it is not too difficult!"
During the height of Beatlemania, John Lennon was asked by a reporter, "Does your hair require any special attention?" Lennon replied, "Inattention is the main thing." Similarly, with vegetarianism, we're not asking people to engage in activity--we're asking them to REFRAIN from engaging in an activity. By refraining from eating animals, they are, in effect, refraining from killing them.
By refraining from eating animals, refraining from using products tested on animals, refraining from patronizing forms of "entertainment" that use animals, refraining from wearing the furs or skins of animals, etc., we are, in effect, refraining from harming and killing animals altogether...just as pro-life Christians who refuse vaccines containing aborted fetal cells are refraining from contributing to the death of another human being.
Christians are sometimes reluctant to engage in what they misunderstand to be "good works," but again, we're not asking them to perform good deeds, just to REFRAIN FROM KILLING. This is not merely an academic point, it's one I make when discussing current trends in animal liberation theology:
Perhaps the real question true believers should be asking themselves with regards to animal rights and vegetarianism is not "Why should Christians abstain from certain foods?", but rather, "Why should Christians want to harm or kill God's innocent creatures in the first place?"
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Posted by: georgiaorwell on Nov 27, 2008 11:07 PM
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Kicking and deliberately maliciously prodding animals and being sadistic in dealing with them in the method of killing them seems to largely go with the territory with these types of employees, and people surely do not condone this kind of behavior. I understand there are many who want their 'meat fix' and I'm not saying eating meat is bad - but the barbaric way in which these animals are treated must stop. Boycott eating meat for a week or two and those corporate places that allow this insanity. The whole Thanksgiving thing is a joke anyway. The way the First Nation people have been treated in our country is just as bad - check out Pine Ridge Reservation in N. Dakota.
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Posted by: ladyoracle on Nov 28, 2008 12:47 AM
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Posted by: sirios on Nov 28, 2008 7:41 AM
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Posted by: Beck on Nov 28, 2008 8:03 AM
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"Vitamin B-12. Many vegetarians lack
vitamin B-12 simply because it does not exist
naturally in any non-animal forms. Vegetarians
should seek out vitamin B-12 fortified foods,
such as certain soy milks and cereals to
supplement what they lack. "
We do have modern supplements in recent history. But only in recent history. If a diet needs a supplement, it's not a natural human diet.
http://brucefriedrich.org/Top_Five_Nutrients.html
An Oxford U. study showed no differences in longevity between vegetarians and omnivores except for neurological diseases, which lack of B12 exacerbates.
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» Wow!
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Wow!
Posted by: brunowe
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Posted by: vasumurti on Nov 28, 2008 11:54 AM
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Keith Akers writes in A Vegetarian Sourcebook (1983):
"There is no question that lacto-ovo-vegetarians easily obtain enough vitamin B-12; dairy products and eggs are generous suppliers of vitamin B-12. The controversy pertains only to those who live on plant foods and do not eat any animal foods at all--the 'total vegetarians' or 'vegans.'...The evidence shows, however, that there are numerous sources of vitamin B-12 other than animal foods, and that vitamin B-12 is not a particularly difficult vitamin to get. In short, the Great Vitamin B-12 Controversy, like the protein controversy, is largely generated by lack of information concerning already available research data.
"Only incredibly small quantities of vitamin B-12 are thought to be needed in the diet. According to the National Research Council, 3 micrograms daily will meet the body's requirements. but Victor Herbert, a noted authority on the subject, puts the requirement at 0.1 micrograms, making even the National Research Council's microscopic figure 30 times in excess of the actual need."
John Robbins, author of the Pulitzer Prize nominated Diet for a New America (1987), says that vitamin B-12 is found naturally in the environment around us; on the dirt on a carrot pulled out of the ground, in rainwater, etc., but we live in a sanitized society, removed from nature.
Keith Akers similarly observes:
"Vitamin B-12 has been found in rainwater and in many plant foods. In small quantities, Vitamin B-12 has been found either in or on various foods such as the roots and stems of tomatoes, cabbage, celery, kale, broccoli, leeks, and the leaves of kohlrabi. An ounce of the roots of leeks, beets, and other vegetables will provide 0.1 to 0.3 micrograms of B-12, which is more than a day's requirement.
"There are other plant foods which provide 'massive' quantities of vitamin B-12 -- 'massive,' that is, in relation to human requirements for the vitamin. These include nutritional yeast, tempeh, seaweed, algae, kelp, and fermented soy sauces. The human liver can store vitamin B-12 for years, so once it is ingested from one of these sources, one can go for long periods of time without having to worry about a source of B-12."
The Garden of Eden was vegan, but veganism as an historical trend is a recent phenomenon.
The Vegan Society was formed in England in 1944.
In his 1979 book, Vegetarianism: A Way of Life, Dudley Giehl writes that some ancient Egyptian priests were vegetarian to help them with their vows of celibacy and that they avoided eggs and milk, which they called "liquid flesh." Giehl also writes that Leonardo da Vinci was a vegan, out of ethical concern for animals.
In his 1923 book, The Natural Diet of Man, Adventist physician Dr. John Harvey Kellogg
writes:
"The Ladrone Islands were discovered by the Spaniards around 1620. There were
no animals on the islands except birds, which the natives did not eat. The natives had
never seen fire, and they lived entirely on plant foods--fruits and roots in their
natural state. They were found to be vigorous, active, and of good longevity."
Americans should go vegetarian or vegan.
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Posted by: jazmin623 on Nov 28, 2008 9:43 PM
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GUILA MANCHESTER
The card I send to you this year
Will not be thoughts of Christmas cheer
Or Santa riding in a sleigh
With loads of gifts to come your way.
A starving dog, a homeless cat,
A beaver lying in a trap,
A sparrow punctured in the eyes
To win some kid a science prize,
A horse that's trampled in a ditch
To make a movie baron rich,
A tiny baby left alone,
Old folks forgotten in a home.
If you believe in God at all,
Then love His creatures, great and small,
And help in any way you can
A suffering beast or bird or man.
If you believe these things are wrong
Then let this be your Christmas song
And raise your voice with all your might,
For only you can make them right.
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Posted by: jazmin623 on Nov 29, 2008 12:37 PM
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The factory farming system of modern agriculture strives to maximize output while minimizing costs. Cows, calves, pigs, chickens, turkeys, ducks, geese, and other animals are kept in small cages, in jam-packed sheds, or on filthy feedlots, often with so little space that they can't even turn around or lie down comfortably. They are deprived of exercise so that all their bodies' energy goes toward producing flesh, eggs, or milk for human consumption. The giant corporations that run most factory farms have found that they can make more money by cramming animals into tiny spaces, even though many of the animals get sick and some die. Industry journal National Hog Farmer explains, "Crowding Pigs Pays," and egg-industry expert Bernard Rollins writes that "chickens are cheap; cages are expensive."
They are fed drugs to fatten them faster and to keep them alive in conditions that would otherwise kill them, and they are genetically altered to grow faster or to produce much more milk or eggs than they would naturally. Many animals become crippled under their own weight and die within inches of water and food.
While the suffering of all animals on factory farms is similar, each type of farmed animal faces different types of cruelty.
http://www.goveg.com/factoryFarming.asp
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Posted by: jazmin623 on Nov 29, 2008 12:44 PM
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The heart is the hardest working muscle in the body, pumping blood, oxygen, & nutrients to all the body’s organs. A healthy heart is a prescription for a healthy body.
Eating animal-based foods impairs the heart’s ability to do its job. Meat & dairy products are high in cholesterol and saturated fat. As these fatty substances, or “plaques,” build up inside the walls of arteries, blood flow to all areas of the body is impeded. This artery damage is called atherosclerosis.
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Posted by: jazmin623 on Nov 29, 2008 12:48 PM
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Read about specific carcinogens in meat, such as arsenic in chicken and mercury in fish:
http://www.goveg.com/cancer_meat.asp
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Posted by: jazmin623 on Nov 29, 2008 12:51 PM
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Atherosclerosis
According to Teresa Fung, a researcher who studies strokes at the Harvard School of Public Health, "In essence, an ischemic stroke is much like a heart attack that occurs in your brain and [that] can result from atherosclerosis."6 Atherosclerosis is the narrowing and hardening of our blood vessels that is caused by the consumption of saturated fat and cholesterol. Meat, eggs, and dairy products are the leading sources of saturated fat and the only sources of cholesterol in the human diet. Although the average cholesterol level in the U.S. is 210, the average vegetarian in the U.S. has a cholesterol level of 161, and the average American vegan has a cholesterol level of 133.7
Since vegetarians have lower cholesterol levels and lower intakes of saturated fat than meat-eaters do, they are less likely to suffer from the hardened and clogged arteries that often lead to heart disease and strokes.
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Posted by: jazmin623 on Nov 29, 2008 1:06 PM
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High cholesterol, obesity, diabetes, prostate cancers or inflammations, and hormonal imbalances cause the vast majority of all cases of impotence. The good news is that medical science has proved that all of these conditions can be virtually eliminated (and even cured) with a low-fat vegan diet.
High Cholesterol-
"I don't understand why asking people to eat a well-balanced vegetarian diet is drastic, while it's mediclly conservative to cut people open or put then on powerful cholesterol=lowering drugs the rest of their lives." -Dean Ornish, MD
Obesity & Diabetes
A man with a 42-inch waistline is nearly twice as likely to fall victim to impotence as a man with a 32-inch waistline.
But there is good news! A healthy vegan diet promotes a fit and slim figure. It is estimated that only about 2 percent of American vegans are clinically obese compared to 18 percent of meat-eating Americans. Obesity causes much more than your middle section to go soft. This is yet another excellent reason to go vegan and slim down.
Hormonal Concerns
High Blood Pressure
http://www.goveg.com/impotence.asp
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Posted by: jazmin623 on Nov 29, 2008 1:12 PM
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**********
Protecting Our Children From Obesity-
Kids in the U.S. are getting fatter for the same reasons that adults are getting fatter: The typical Western diet, which relies heavily on animal foods, is high in fat and cholesterol and is the major cause of obesity and coronary heart disease.
**********
It’s the easiest ‘diet’ I’ve ever been on—I saw results right away.”
Before: 200+ pounds, size 16
After: 134 pounds, size 6
Read Leah’s story:
http://www.goveg.com/f-veganweightloss.asp
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Posted by: jazmin623 on Nov 29, 2008 1:19 PM
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"Studies have shown that risk for AD [Alzheimer's disease] is greater in people who consume diets high in cholesterol, saturated fats, & total calorie & low in fiber, vegetables, & fruits."-Physicians Committee for Responsible Medicine
Also See:
Meat Hinders Heart & Head
Meat Vs. Veggie Amino Acids
Alzheimer's & Free Radicals
The Veggie Solution
Fat, Fish & Intelligence
http://www.goveg.com/alzheimers.asp
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Posted by: jazmin623 on Nov 29, 2008 1:23 PM
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http://www.goveg.com/AnimalBorneDiseases.asp
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Posted by: jazmin623 on Nov 29, 2008 1:26 PM
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A few of the most prominent reasons include the high amount of fiber in plant foods, the lack of artery-clogging cholesterol and saturated animal fats in vegetarian diets, differences between the types of iron found in animal flesh and plant foods, and the fact that vegetarians tend to weigh less and have less excess body fat than meat-eaters do (maintaining a healthy weight is an extremely important factor in preventing and treating diabetes.
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Posted by: jazmin623 on Nov 29, 2008 1:34 PM
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******
Organic and Hormone-Free: Conning Consumers-
Some health-conscious consumers have turned to organic milk and flesh because they think it’s hormone-free, but they are mistaken. Despite its label, “organic” animal products are often treated with hormones—when inspectors in the European Union randomly sampled “hormone-free” cow flesh from the U.S., they found that 12 percent of the meat had been treated with powerful hormones that are banned in Europe!
http://www.goveg.com/contamination_other.asp
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