Too Much Stuff: How Our Profligate Consumerism Might Keep Us in Iraq

Leave our stuff there and bring their stuff here. Then we discharge everyone in the military in Iraq and revoke their citizenship. Should take about a week and a half.
Reality is beginning to take hold, isn't it? It truly was an occupation, not a war, and this problem proves that we came to stay. It will cost us much more time and money than we thought to clean up this mess.

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No - alas, nothing much was learned from Vietnam! And now we face two "Vietnams" - in Iraq and Afghanisan: those twin problems: can we still win? When to leave?

The profligacy is only part of it. On two stints in Vietnam during that war we saw the apalling waste and worse, the complete isolation of the foreign forces from the Vietnamese (except in fighting or controlling them).

This led to a failure to see that the over-reactions and violence against the population brought just about everyone from President Khieu to the woman in the ricefield to hate the Americans & their allies (possibly excepting the Australians).

The same phenomenon has happened, is happening in both wars today. Profligacy, isolation from the people, and excessive violence means loss of those "hearts and minds

(on how "Iraq" has brought 2 "Vietnams" see our website www.dipconsult.eu)

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This is complete bullshit!

The Pentagon has been wasting billions for decades. And "NOW" they want to be frugal and responsible?!?

Make Iraq the 51st State, give the people representation, OR GET THE HELL OUT!

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and bring all our "stuff". Some of it might be perfectly usable.

What a pathetic argument!!!!!

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I worked with a relief agency in Kurdish controlled Iraq after the 1st gulf war in 1992 and 1993. The US and allies left tons of stuff there--no ice cream machines but plenty of other junk. Some was useful and some useless. I cannot imagine the volume of junk now. I would say we open a HUGE K-mart army surplus store in the middle of Iraq and sell or give it away. Imagine the cost of cleaning each piece of crap we ship back to US????? WRITE it off just like we should write off the poor investment the invasion has been--exhausting our military, wastng the lives and limbs of our youngins, good will of allies, new enememies, collpase of the economy (a nice spin off), ...should i go on?????????? Oh yeah...and completely messing up Iraq and BOOSTING Iran--on a golden platter--exactly what they wanted for decades: a destablised Iraq and a middle east where they can have influence--all that without any spilling of blood or setting foot in Iraq. How SWEET for Iran--how stupid for us!!!! God help Obama.

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Ok, overturn the ban first and let hempseed oil compete with petroleum and watch support for staying in Iraq drop like a rock. Get it?

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Don't kid yourself: the superbases are there forever. This is an epoch-making move: to place a permanent US power presence in the region forever. The US is never leaving.

It is true the troops will probably move back to the superbases, and only launch missions from there. A combination of strike teams and Reper missiles should keep security good for the future. The US will go lo-pro (low profile) but will always be there.

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Maybe I just haven't had enough coffee, but I'm just missing the point here. It may be wrong that we have all those computers and ice cream makers (though as a mom of a Marine who served over there, I'm pretty glad for the Humvees and artillery), but the bottom line is that it's ours and it's there. If, logistically speaking, it's going to take several years to clear our crap out of Iraq, then that's what it's going to take and whining about it doesn't do any good at all. Let's just do what needs to be done and get out of there.

I mean, seriously, what are our options here? A chaotic Vietnam-style retreat, abandoning all our stuff, or bringing it home, with proper safeguards against environmental and medical contamination (not interested in the Iraqi equivalent of plague-infested rats, thank you very much). I vote for option B.

If indeed all that stuff is soon going to seem like 'part of an American dream life,' because our future prospects are so dire, then we ought to bring it home and reuse it, cannibalize it for parts, recycle the metals, whatever we can do to get some benefit from this fiasco.

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This is just the first shoe to drop. Soon, we will be hearing about how we can leave everything in Iraq for the Iraqis and buy all new stuff for the military upon their return to the US. It will be spun as economic development for the Iraqis and an economic stimulus program for the US.

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We moved millions of men and most of their equipment out of Europe and Asia at the end of World War II in about two years.

If we want to move 150K men and women out of Iraq, we can easily do it in 16 months.

I bet Blackwater will get their mercenaries out of there in no time, once the war became unprofitable.

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Let the USA government in conjunction with its military sort out what to ship home and what to sell. Hold an international auction (minimum bids set) via internet with international banks handling funds transfers. Certificates of title provided by USA via internet to the buyers. Auction opening and closing dates and times set. All unsold items will be cleaned and packed and shipped to USA. Buyer must arrange shipping of purchased items within three months of purchase date. If purchased items are not picked up by buyer with valid title, the items become the property of the Iraqi government. The payment for the auctioned equipment should substantially if not entirely pay for the cost of shipping the rest home. The Iraqi government will have much better equipment than they currently have. And the entire withdrawal can be accomplished in vastly less time than three years.

President-elect Obama, I am available for a position in your administration. Please call.
:-)

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This is an excellent article. It would be our job as community or alternative media to help our public understand this challenge so Pres.elect Obama does not run headlong into the military over something that cannot be prevented.

Hillary Clinton said in her primary campaign exactly what you are saying in your article (only in a sound bite). She got trounced in the alternative media for being the messenger.
Let's not do that to Barack.

The point is this mess in Iraq was created by Madmen with delusions of grandeur, a deep lack of understanding about either civil wars or wars where there is an unwilling populace.
The worst part was their greedy war-profiteering friends who are making billions off the backs of the U.S. and Iraqi people.

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Yep, give all that war stuff to the Christian Rightists and tell 'em thars gold in those Iraqi hills.......

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We blame the banksters, Wall Street, corporate CEO's, congress, the president, and the weather for the financial meltdown.

But who is really to blame? The American public, who are dumber than a sack full of door knobs. Need I explain why?

Have a nice day.

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They aint going to pull out.Its just another lie to please the masses.Look at the map,why would you give up such a strategic spot rite on the doorstep of your so called arch enemy"IRAN" when you intend to invade in the very near future.Who would spend 750mil on a green zone and leave?.No one.USA will stay until they are forced to leave by the new world leaders,Maybe China Or Russia or both if they join forces.Lets wait and see what big testing thing so many world speakers keep mentioning will happen when Obama takes over.Or will Bush do it before he goes

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I take issue with the profligate use of the term profligate in this story.

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... Tell them, "What you can get out of Iraq by the deadline, you can bring home. What's there after the deadline gets left behind. So you boys better get back on over to the Pentagon and start prioritizing. Dismissed! Carry On!

It's called "civilian control of the military."

BTW, I am NOT some anti-military type. I spent 3 1/2 years active and 20 years in the naval reserves. Long enough, I think, to be able to know bullsh*t when I smell it.

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First they bs us with the line that we have to stay here or dishonor our troops.

Now they bs us with the line that we have to stay here for our stuff.

Soon they'll be telling us we have to stay because we've always been there.

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Having 'too much stuff' in Iraq is not a reason to stay. It presents a job opportunity for thousands of Americans who are unemployed and physically able to do the job. Moving, dismantling, shipping for openers. It could be a good paying job with decent benfits with the understanding that's it's temporary. It could get alot of people back on their feet, save their houses from the bank and stash some cash. They would not face the same danger as the military since they're there to get the U.S. out. Empty 'The Green Zone' which is nothing more than overpaid civilian staff that doesn't do much of anything. That would provide a place to stay. It's filled with amenities. I know it's not as easy as it sounds but then nothing is. The invasion of Iraq back in 2003 was supposed to be short lived. In and out. We have no choice but to get out. It's not our country and as long as we have soldiers there, they will get killed. Nobody want's their country 'occupied'. As for the multi billion dollar embassy we built, well I'm sure they can make good use use of it. I suppose some brilliant mind thought that the Iraqis would get used to having us around and adjust. Guess not. The cost of staying on will always be higher than the cost of leaving. The human toll on Americans and Iraqis alike is doesn't get much attention. It's all about "stuff". thanks, ANNA

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Why not take a page from our military's History Book of Ingenious Strategeries and outfit our enemies with all that swag. That way we can turn right around in another 15 years and go fight an even better armed ragtag squad of highly armed villains? It'd be great training for our future forces. Throw a US Military yard sale open to the Iraqi public!

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Why not take a page from our military's History Book of Ingenious Strategeries and outfit our enemies with all that swag. That way we can turn right around in another 15 years and go fight an even better armed ragtag squad of highly armed villains? It'd be great training for our future forces. Throw a US Military yard sale open to the Iraqi public!

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You said it.

You gotta laugh at the prospect of fatass Americans who can't leave a country they destroyed without their ice cream machines.

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At the cost of 4,500 American dead, and the deaths of probably a million Iraqis, we managed to destroy a country. And now we can't leave because we have too much "stuff" there? Give me a break.

We owe the Iraqis "big time" for what we have done to their country. Therefore, by way of making reparations for an illegal, immoral invasion, we should just bequeath our "stuff" to the Iraqi government. Let them sort out whether to keep or destroy it. All that's needed to get our troops home is a safe, orderly exodus, with each man and woman bringing no more personal "stuff" than they can carry.

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That's how long it would take to move all US forces out of Iraq. The neocons hoped to make the occupation permanent by investing in permanent bases. Most of that detritus can be left for the Iraqis. They are supposed to be our allies, right? Decontamination can be accomplished in Kuwait. This is just another in a long line of excuses to stay in Iraq for a hundred years. It is an idiotic lie to say that the country we overran in three weeks cannot be disoccupied in less than three years.

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I don't see any problem. Just leave all the god-damn stuff THERE...and go. Consider the STUFF part of the compensation. Surely, they can find a use for it?

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to do for the last 7 years. Burn it all. It didn't take 3 years to get all those troops and equipment OVER there in the first place. If it had, there would never have been an invasion in the first place.
Burn it to make it unusable and get the HELL OUT. NOW.

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Has said we would withdraw 'when ground conditions warrant it'.

Those of you who have been taken in by the 'rope a dope' strategy should understand that all the 'promises' were hedged later. check it out.

We certainly will not be out in 16 months. Figure decades............just like McLame said.

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On the afternoon of Sept. 3, 1968 I arrived in Vietnam full of patriotic duty. The following morning while being assigned to a work detail on the Saigon River a break was called. As I looked around a stark realization came over me that this war had nothing to do with freedom or democracy but with power and wealth, that I and every one else had been lied to. I was on the losing side and was expected to stop a bullet for economic theory. At that moment I lost all respect for any and all authority and have yet to regain it. I wonder how many, after arriving in Iraq have realized the same thing?

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We invaded their country and destroyed all their stuff. We could just leave our stuff there and give these people some peace. They could sell it to some country that needed some war stuff then they would have money to repair their electric, sewer, water system, hospitals and then maybe the doctors would return and they won't have to die from infections anymore.

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As long as we continue to stuff ourselves with every purchasable thing under the sun, we will never become the wonderful species we could be. We could change (not phony Obama change but real change) our profligate ways but we won't. Instead, we will crash and burn. Oh yes, we'll disintegrate slowly like a burned down bonfire but we will fizzle out and disappear.

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FYI, during the Vietnam war the Army and Air Force Exchange System (PX) was the third largest retail organization in the world after Sears and Pennys.

Billions of dollars in PX and Commissary products disappeared into the local economy on top of it.

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Is this the reason why they want to keep Gates? Nobody else would accept this bull@#$%!

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The embassy is exhibit #1 that we are there to stay -- in large numbers. Now that the oil has been privatized, the only way western companies will be able to get it is if we protect the facilities. Hence the permanent bases.

We will not leave until we can no longer get credit.

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A major point that is being missed is the fact any of the motorised transport type machinery will be in poor condition. A hell of a lot of the used equipment will likewise be of little value — the dessert is hell on machinery!
Therefore a great deal of this ‘stuff’ is scrap metal. The Iraqis would probably take it off your hands for less than the cost of shipping it home.

If I were in the Iraqi government I would set a deadline for you and your junk to be gone, and charge for clean up and storage of anything left.

I would also begin action in the International Court, suing for damages caused, death , pain and suffering, the return of the twenty billion of oil funds that the US squandered in the initial stages, and the stolen /looted treasure of world significance.

Would be nice to see the US ay for the destruction it wrought!

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When we are spending $10 billion plus each month over there, you mean to tell me that $10 billion isnt enough to sort, sift, salvage and send our reusable equipment home in a short period? It certainly did not seem to take us very long to get enough there to occupy the country with some success. As for the buildings and permanant bases, sell them to the Iraqi Govt and recoup some of our monies lost. I am sure they would be glad to utilize them, rather than going to the expense of building new ones and they evidently have plenty of surplus money to spend. This premise borders on idiotic..we cant leave because our "stuff" is there? PPffffttttttt!

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Either it's too much consumerism that keeps us in Iraq, we're attempting to stave off a Depression by initiating World War III or we are dead set on stealing all of Iraq's oil and that of the other Middle Eastern countries. No matter, we will make the ME ours.

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