COMMENTS: 80
Bush Playing Chicken With Detroit in Last-Gasp Effort to Demoralize the Dems
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That's what Bush's moves this week are clearly about: dividing -- not uniting. The New York Times reported that during his first meeting with Barack Obama, the outgoing president suggested he might support Democrats' economic stimulus package and aid to struggling automakers if party leaders "drop their opposition to a free-trade agreement with Colombia." While Bush later denied an overt quid pro quo, one was obviously implied.
Strange behavior? Yes and no.
Bush is the Texas Hold 'Em addict who raised on the largest tax cuts in contemporary history, re-raised on two wars and went all-in with an attempt to privatize Social Security. So yes, from a brinkmanship standpoint, it seems bizarre that in exchange for a massive legislative effort to right the entire economy, the cowboy president may insist on a tiny trade deal that -- at best -- promises a boost of "less than seven-hundredths of one percent to U.S. gross domestic product," according to the Brookings Institution.
But, then, Bush is the protege of Karl Rove and the son of George H. W. Bush. So no, his Colombia demand isn't weird at all -- nor is it as small a wager as it appears.
Bush understands what happened in 1993 when his father left an almost-finished North American Free Trade Agreement (NAFTA) in the lap of Bill Clinton's incoming administration. He knows that business interests subsequently pressured Clinton into joining with Republicans to pass the pact over his own party's opposition. His Rove-trained mind gets what The Nation's John Nichols reported: that the payout came with a 1994 election whose NAFTA taint delivered "a dramatic drop in turnout among members of union households," decreased "Democratic support in traditional areas of strength" -- and thus birthed the Republican Congress.
Bush wants to replicate this Three Card Monte -- and the Colombia trade pact is his ace in the hole.
The deal would reward a right-wing Colombian regime under investigation for links to paramilitary gangs, drug cartels and anti-union brutality. Like NAFTA, it includes few labor protections, meaning it will enrich Bush's corporate donors by forcing Americans into a wage-cutting competition with low-paid foreign workers. And, most important to Bush's legacy, the pact could bust Democrats before they ever have a chance to unify.
NAFTA proved that trade is the most divisive issue inside the Democratic Party. On one side is the party's Wall Street wing that supports free trade. On the other side is its progressive wing that wants our trade policies reformed. Lately, the latter has increased its clout. As globalization became a major campaign theme in the last two elections, the watchdog group Public Citizen reports that free trade critics replaced free trade proponents in 69 House and Senate races. These new populists, along with Democrats' more senior progressive incumbents, comprise a powerful new voting bloc promising to reject deals like the Colombia agreement and protect labor and human rights.
Therefore, if Bush successfully uses the economic emergency to hustle a faction of Wall Street Democrats into supporting the deal, he will have potentially engineered a 1994 redux: Democratic infighting, a demoralized progressive base, and these newly elected fair-trade Democrats humiliated -- and thus electorally endangered -- by their own party standard-bearers.
Certainly, with the president betting the economy on the Colombia deal, this is a difficult, high-stakes situation for Obama. But amid all the conflicting opinions he's hearing, he has the sound advice of country music's great political sage Kenny Rogers, who counsels that gambling greatness means knowing "when to walk away."
COPYRIGHT 2008 CREATORS SYNDICATE, INC.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: mmckinl on Nov 14, 2008 12:38 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama called his bluff when he publicized the offer. Who ya gonna believe, Bush or Barack ? Any state producing producing cars or parts for the big three will now be Democratic for the next 20 years.
Now if Bush vetoes any help for Detroit it is all in his lap and just another chapter in the encyclopedia of Bush Failure now numbering in the tens of volumes and those states producing for the big three will be Democratic for 40 years.
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» Dems are totally lost
Posted by: IPF
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Posted by: CatDad on Nov 14, 2008 2:23 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» What does Columbia export?
Posted by: colinmeister
» RE: What does Columbia export?
Posted by: somegirl
» RE: What does Columbia export?
Posted by: Bbear41
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Posted by: 2thepoint on Nov 14, 2008 2:53 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Aside from that, the auto industry has been in a tailspin for some time now. Union contracts combined with poor product decisions have taen their toll.
The Columbia trade agreement and saving the auto industry have nothing to do with each other and shouldn't be bartered.
The auto manufactures and the unions need to take their greed on the chin and and pay up! When an industry doesn't have the foresight to develop products that will meet market demands and unions cannot not see the impact of their demands on manufactures, they both need to pay the price! Unfortunately workers get caught in the middle!
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» RE: Lose lips!
Posted by: adp3d
» RE: Lose lips!
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Lose lips!
Posted by: Spot
» RE: Lose lips!
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Lose lips!
Posted by: IPF
» RE: Lose lips! No, sales tanked a few years ago. Here in Detroit, they sat unsold
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Lose lips!
Posted by: blue3zero
» RE: Lose lips!
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Lose lips weren't Obama's
Posted by: Beck
» RE: Lose lips weren't Obama's
Posted by: Shehova
» RE: Lose lips weren't Obama's
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Lose lips weren't Obama's
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Lose lips weren't Obama's
Posted by: mejsmith
» RE: Lose lips weren't Obama's
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Lose lips!
Posted by: violawall
» Where'd you "Lose lips!", 2thepoint?
Posted by: hurricane hugo
» RE: Where'd you "Lose lips!", 2thepoint?
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Lose lips!
Posted by: Ethical1
» RE: Lose lips!
Posted by: 2thepoint
» What's wrong with LOOSE lips - and games?
Posted by: Daniel35
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Posted by: sasquuatch55 on Nov 14, 2008 5:04 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Diecash1 on Nov 14, 2008 5:38 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There have been a number of excellent discussions on the matter such as NPR's On Point:
Auto Industry Bailout
The auto industry is the largest purchaser of steel, plastic, electronics, etc and as such, it's failure would negatively impact virtually every industry and most everyone. Before you cast our manufacturing base into the abyss you might want to consider that the job you save may be your own!
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» Chrysler execs are about to get $30 million in bonuses
Posted by: Beck
» What YOU fail to understand.....
Posted by: Spot
» Others will fill the void
Posted by: suprmark
» RE: What people fail to understand.....
Posted by: AlienSlave
» Your logic.....
Posted by: Diecash1
» RE: Your logic.....
Posted by: AlienSlave
» More propaganda
Posted by: IPF
» RE: More propaganda
Posted by: AlienSlave
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Posted by: Purple Girl on Nov 14, 2008 6:34 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They have been the Dealers for the Oil industry and their Foreign Bosses since the last Oil extortion in the '70's.
Only once the japanese started kicking their ass in sales did the Big 3 blink an eye to build Shit versions of their 'fuel efficient 'car lines- what about 2 model yrs? then right back to gas guzzlers called SUV's which they CONNED Ameircans into buying ( one thing the big 3 knows is how to elicit Egoism from consumers). In fact they intentionally went after woman, first the updated Station wagon called the Minivan, but that was far to 'common' so they kicked it up a notch with size, Heigth and DVD players so they could drive their kids two blocks to soccor practice, and look better and Richer than those Moms in Mini Vans....Yes ladies your arrogance aided this economic heist! How to sell anything...play to womens Vanity-but that's a Doctoral dissertation in and of itself.
Notice the Dramaitc drop in fuel prices right now...Started just before the election. Ya think that was a fluke? Same Game different Decade.Now before this great drop in pricing it was stated conservation would have little real effect on pricing. Yet this is exactly why they are now claiming the price has Dropped. Bullshit. No doubt the downward spiral of our economy has reduced the need for Fuel Because NO ONE IS WORKING Because of Co's cut backs....But when the price drops to 1/2 price rigging becomes the obvious reason.
Personally having had 2 grandfathers work for the Big 3 before Unionization, building those corps from the ground Up..I have come to hate them for their Betrayal to those who made them Interantional Corps. I'd like to do to them what they did to MI... Leave them like spent dead whores on Woodward & 8. Unfortunately this would have a adverse effect on my friends and family who not only work in the auto industry but rely on it for their own business.
So what I would rather see is an immediate influx of money to Auto Corps who moved in as the Big 3 bugged Out. give Tax breaks and working capitol to Toyota, Honda, Saab to take over these factories and let the Big 3 go Fuck themselves. MI has the factories, the Workers (with lean hungry looks) and the Educational resources to start moving immediately Under the Guidance of Corps & CEO's who have invested in the American Worker instead of Screwing the American worker. I am sick of these 3 claiming to be the 'American Auto industry ' when they have done everything to bring America to her Knees- AGAIN!!!
In fact many past & present Big 3 top brass should be Prosecuted for Extortion, Embezzlement and TREASON! Thye have been pushing US down into third world Labor standards for Decades!Why should Americans be expected to lower their standards instead of the Corps raising the bar for the third world Workers. We are not in competition with the other Workers We are in a WAR with th eMultinational Corps who want US all to be indentured Slaves.
If the Ameircan worker and the Unions are willing to make concessions, do it for the auto Corps who have INVESTED in US, Not those who have Betrayed US!Just because they still have their World HQ's here and Fly Our Flag Does Not mean they have ANY allegience to US, or our citizens. these SOB's have been dancing and spitting on My ancestors graves for 30 decades!- Frankly I'd like to see some of thes TRAITORS Feet dangling from a very High Tree!
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» RE: Michigander on the Fence
Posted by: 2thepoint
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Posted by: Tim Chadron on Nov 14, 2008 6:41 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So, the auto makers want money. Here's my deal. First, all CEO and upper management assets frozen and vastly confiscated to help pay for said bailout. Oh, and did I mention that they will virtually all be fired? Cafe standards to be upped way above anything that has been discussed in recent years. In other words, you will start producing fuel efficient vehicles that puts us as equal to or better than any other auto manufacturers world wide. How are we going to do that? It's easy. Stop the wars. Put a moratorium on ALL weapons sales and development, and use those incredible engineers who have been working so long and hard developing sophisticated weaponry to develop green energy sources and more efficient means of moving an auto down the road. Oh, and did I mention that every penny that is given you will have to be paid back in full? Or that there will be caps on CEO salaries with no bonuses whatsoever until those loans are paid?
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» RE: A bail out is a bail out is a bail out....
Posted by: Spot
» RE: A bail out is a bail out is a bail out....
Posted by: Diecash1
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Posted by: Carol Burns on Nov 14, 2008 6:42 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
fromthewilderness.com/free/ciadrugs/bush-cheney-drugs.html
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Posted by: Dana L. Stern on Nov 14, 2008 8:02 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Mr. Dana L. Stern
Posted by: Pop
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Posted by: truthteller on Nov 14, 2008 9:06 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A couple of years ago, GM sold off it's locomotive division to a Canadian based partnership. From the 1930's to the 1980's GM had built the best diesel-electric locomotives in the World and had 80% of the U. S. market, but went into a downward spiral of ever worsening design and quality control problems after that that made minor rival GE into the dominant locomotive builder today. The problems they had with their Electro-Motive Division mirrored the problems with the rest of the company. First they quit building complete locomotives in the U. S. at LaGrange, IL, then they dumped the entire division, now based in London, ON.
I'm sure most Americans are not aware of this, but there is not one single successful company based in the U. S. that builds new rail-passenger, or rail-transit vehicles. The best you get here is final assembly of foreign built vehicles. GE is the ONLY U. S. manufacturer of totally new, self-designed and built diesel-electric locomotives from scratch. Brookville Locomotive (formerly just a maker of small, industrial railroad "critters") just got into the manufacture of a limited number of mainline locomotives from supplier provided components, and MPI in Idaho makes remanufactured locomotives from used/wrecked locomotives and new parts. No U. S. manufacturer builds totally electric locomotives or trains.
The U. S. auto industry was able to gear up in the early 1940's to build military vehicles and planes for WWII. If we are to come to their aid this time, we need to get them to build what this country really needs for people to get around - mass transit and passenger rail vehicles.
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» THANK YOU !
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: We need the industrial infrastructure, but...
Posted by: monkeywrench
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Posted by: REDgodowar on Nov 14, 2008 10:07 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He successfully has invoked that image, and fooled most to believe that he is.
Cowboys value honor, courage, your "word" is your promise and contract, giving up all to help others in need, resourcefulness and endurance in dire circumstances, friendliness to all (not just an elite group), etc.
Bush personifies not one of these qualities.
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» RE: "cowboy president"
Posted by: Malamute
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Posted by: AlienSlave on Nov 14, 2008 10:07 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Whining and petty jealousy....
Posted by: Diecash1
» RE: Whining and petty jealousy....
Posted by: AlienSlave
» RE: Whining and petty jealousy....
Posted by: IPF
» RE: Factory RATS
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Factory RATS
Posted by: AlienSlave
» How sweet it is
Posted by: MplsVala
» RE: How sweet it is
Posted by: AlienSlave
» LOLZ
Posted by: IPF
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Posted by: monkeywrench on Nov 14, 2008 10:48 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now, there's a legacy he can believe in!
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» RE: Is being "worst in history" a form of achievement?
Posted by: AlienSlave
» You are dreaming......
Posted by: Diecash1
» RE: You are dreaming......
Posted by: AlienSlave
» What kind of medication......
Posted by: Diecash1
» RE: What kind of medication......
Posted by: AlienSlave
» Ignorant as hell is more like it....
Posted by: Diecash1
» RE: Ignorant as hell is more like it....
Posted by: AlienSlave
» The oil-rich Middle East is the centre of the Universe
Posted by: outlook
» RE: The oil-rich Middle East is the centre of the Universe
Posted by: AlienSlave
» "worst in history" might go to some of GM's cars...
Posted by: IPF
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Posted by: maxpayne on Nov 14, 2008 10:49 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: And why is Obama planning on giving Big Auto another taxpayer funded bailout all the while leaving
Posted by: IPF
» RE: And why is Obama planning on giving Big Auto another taxpayer funded bailout all the while leavi
Posted by: 2thepoint
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Posted by: Archie1954 on Nov 14, 2008 11:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Spiritgirl on Nov 14, 2008 12:28 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The nerve, even as Ford does make hybrids for Latin American markets! Even as they are laying off workers, workers that could have been retrained with those earlier $$$$ that they received! Earlier as they were paying their lobbiests to fight against higher fuel standards! Okay, let's give them money - but there definitely need to be major strings attached! And while we're at it - let's just give every American citizen making under $200,000.00, $1 million dollars, just to make it even!!!!!!
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Posted by: amacd on Nov 14, 2008 6:49 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Any real progress must start with the investment industry which is the rotten core that determines and drives the abuses of all industrial sectors and all abuses of the ‘working class’.
As Nobel laurite in economics, Paul Krugman, has repeatedly noted in the NYTimes, “powerful stimulus needs to be progressive” --- which means it has to be 'externality positive' AND sustained, by individual as well as public investments.
Al Gore wrote a great op-ed here Sunday about the 'good news' synergies between new energy technologies, jobs, our environment, economic recovery, etc. But he didn't address the 'best news' which an economist like Krugman understands; that accepted government control over tax policy can change the whole balance of investing in our economy from one focused on negative externality scams to one of positive externality progress.
Yes, our US government already has the proper power and role of taxing investment in the production of things that hurt the economy, and giving tax breaks to things that help our economy, to provide true cost signals (which include externality costs) to industry --- so that the market functions FOR society, and not against it.
Four of the biggest industries in our democratic country are clearly producing things that hurt, rather than help, all of us: the financial industry – which produces ‘debt bombs’, the war industry --- which produces real bombs, the energy industry --- which produces globe-killing pollution, and the auto industry --- which produces energy consuming junk.
By simply starting with the first of these broken and destructive enabling industries, finance, we the people --- through our government, can use tax policy to channel trillions of our dollars into sustainable and honest investments for 21st century technologies and jobs, and away from dishonest, unsustainable and anti-investment schemes that produce nothing except pain for us and looted profits for the super-wealthy.
The starting point for this rebuilding of a healthy, progressive, honest, sustainable, and democratic investment industry is already in place – in the form of the new Socially Responsible Investment industry (SRI). We only need to expand on its success, assure (through government regulation and standards) that it honestly invests in positive (and not negative) externality industries, expand its scope and promote its image as the Socially Responsible and Honest Investment industry (SRHI), and give tax breaks to all Americans who invest in it for a better 21st century future, while applying extra tax costs to any laggards who want to continue to make money the ‘old fashioned way’, in the ‘fixed casino’ of ruthless investors of the old 19th century Wall Street of unbridled greed and destructive industries.
The snake of 'corporatist Empire' can best be killed by first cutting off its head --- the greedy, out-dated, and ANTI-social investment industry.
Alan MacDonald
Sanford, Maine
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» RE: Auto industry not issue. 'Corporate finacial Empire'
Posted by: IPF
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Posted by: upatriot on Nov 15, 2008 7:15 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How can folks who consider themselves progressive support any form of corporate welfare. There has to be a better way to help American workers.
Visit my blog, UrbanPatriot.com
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Posted by: mmckinl on Nov 14, 2008 12:38 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama called his bluff when he publicized the offer. Who ya gonna believe, Bush or Barack ? Any state producing producing cars or parts for the big three will now be Democratic for the next 20 years.
Now if Bush vetoes any help for Detroit it is all in his lap and just another chapter in the encyclopedia of Bush Failure now numbering in the tens of volumes and those states producing for the big three will be Democratic for 40 years.
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» Dems are totally lost
Posted by: IPF
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Posted by: CatDad on Nov 14, 2008 2:23 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» What does Columbia export?
Posted by: colinmeister
» RE: What does Columbia export?
Posted by: somegirl
» RE: What does Columbia export?
Posted by: Bbear41
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Posted by: 2thepoint on Nov 14, 2008 2:53 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Aside from that, the auto industry has been in a tailspin for some time now. Union contracts combined with poor product decisions have taen their toll.
The Columbia trade agreement and saving the auto industry have nothing to do with each other and shouldn't be bartered.
The auto manufactures and the unions need to take their greed on the chin and and pay up! When an industry doesn't have the foresight to develop products that will meet market demands and unions cannot not see the impact of their demands on manufactures, they both need to pay the price! Unfortunately workers get caught in the middle!
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» RE: Lose lips!
Posted by: adp3d
» RE: Lose lips!
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Lose lips!
Posted by: Spot
» RE: Lose lips!
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Lose lips!
Posted by: IPF
» RE: Lose lips! No, sales tanked a few years ago. Here in Detroit, they sat unsold
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Lose lips!
Posted by: blue3zero
» RE: Lose lips!
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Lose lips weren't Obama's
Posted by: Beck
» RE: Lose lips weren't Obama's
Posted by: Shehova
» RE: Lose lips weren't Obama's
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Lose lips weren't Obama's
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Lose lips weren't Obama's
Posted by: mejsmith
» RE: Lose lips weren't Obama's
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Lose lips!
Posted by: violawall
» Where'd you "Lose lips!", 2thepoint?
Posted by: hurricane hugo
» RE: Where'd you "Lose lips!", 2thepoint?
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Lose lips!
Posted by: Ethical1
» RE: Lose lips!
Posted by: 2thepoint
» What's wrong with LOOSE lips - and games?
Posted by: Daniel35
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sasquuatch55 on Nov 14, 2008 5:04 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Diecash1 on Nov 14, 2008 5:38 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There have been a number of excellent discussions on the matter such as NPR's On Point:
Auto Industry Bailout
The auto industry is the largest purchaser of steel, plastic, electronics, etc and as such, it's failure would negatively impact virtually every industry and most everyone. Before you cast our manufacturing base into the abyss you might want to consider that the job you save may be your own!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Chrysler execs are about to get $30 million in bonuses
Posted by: Beck
» What YOU fail to understand.....
Posted by: Spot
» Others will fill the void
Posted by: suprmark
» RE: What people fail to understand.....
Posted by: AlienSlave
» Your logic.....
Posted by: Diecash1
» RE: Your logic.....
Posted by: AlienSlave
» More propaganda
Posted by: IPF
» RE: More propaganda
Posted by: AlienSlave
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Purple Girl on Nov 14, 2008 6:34 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They have been the Dealers for the Oil industry and their Foreign Bosses since the last Oil extortion in the '70's.
Only once the japanese started kicking their ass in sales did the Big 3 blink an eye to build Shit versions of their 'fuel efficient 'car lines- what about 2 model yrs? then right back to gas guzzlers called SUV's which they CONNED Ameircans into buying ( one thing the big 3 knows is how to elicit Egoism from consumers). In fact they intentionally went after woman, first the updated Station wagon called the Minivan, but that was far to 'common' so they kicked it up a notch with size, Heigth and DVD players so they could drive their kids two blocks to soccor practice, and look better and Richer than those Moms in Mini Vans....Yes ladies your arrogance aided this economic heist! How to sell anything...play to womens Vanity-but that's a Doctoral dissertation in and of itself.
Notice the Dramaitc drop in fuel prices right now...Started just before the election. Ya think that was a fluke? Same Game different Decade.Now before this great drop in pricing it was stated conservation would have little real effect on pricing. Yet this is exactly why they are now claiming the price has Dropped. Bullshit. No doubt the downward spiral of our economy has reduced the need for Fuel Because NO ONE IS WORKING Because of Co's cut backs....But when the price drops to 1/2 price rigging becomes the obvious reason.
Personally having had 2 grandfathers work for the Big 3 before Unionization, building those corps from the ground Up..I have come to hate them for their Betrayal to those who made them Interantional Corps. I'd like to do to them what they did to MI... Leave them like spent dead whores on Woodward & 8. Unfortunately this would have a adverse effect on my friends and family who not only work in the auto industry but rely on it for their own business.
So what I would rather see is an immediate influx of money to Auto Corps who moved in as the Big 3 bugged Out. give Tax breaks and working capitol to Toyota, Honda, Saab to take over these factories and let the Big 3 go Fuck themselves. MI has the factories, the Workers (with lean hungry looks) and the Educational resources to start moving immediately Under the Guidance of Corps & CEO's who have invested in the American Worker instead of Screwing the American worker. I am sick of these 3 claiming to be the 'American Auto industry ' when they have done everything to bring America to her Knees- AGAIN!!!
In fact many past & present Big 3 top brass should be Prosecuted for Extortion, Embezzlement and TREASON! Thye have been pushing US down into third world Labor standards for Decades!Why should Americans be expected to lower their standards instead of the Corps raising the bar for the third world Workers. We are not in competition with the other Workers We are in a WAR with th eMultinational Corps who want US all to be indentured Slaves.
If the Ameircan worker and the Unions are willing to make concessions, do it for the auto Corps who have INVESTED in US, Not those who have Betrayed US!Just because they still have their World HQ's here and Fly Our Flag Does Not mean they have ANY allegience to US, or our citizens. these SOB's have been dancing and spitting on My ancestors graves for 30 decades!- Frankly I'd like to see some of thes TRAITORS Feet dangling from a very High Tree!
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» RE: Michigander on the Fence
Posted by: 2thepoint
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Posted by: Tim Chadron on Nov 14, 2008 6:41 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So, the auto makers want money. Here's my deal. First, all CEO and upper management assets frozen and vastly confiscated to help pay for said bailout. Oh, and did I mention that they will virtually all be fired? Cafe standards to be upped way above anything that has been discussed in recent years. In other words, you will start producing fuel efficient vehicles that puts us as equal to or better than any other auto manufacturers world wide. How are we going to do that? It's easy. Stop the wars. Put a moratorium on ALL weapons sales and development, and use those incredible engineers who have been working so long and hard developing sophisticated weaponry to develop green energy sources and more efficient means of moving an auto down the road. Oh, and did I mention that every penny that is given you will have to be paid back in full? Or that there will be caps on CEO salaries with no bonuses whatsoever until those loans are paid?
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» RE: A bail out is a bail out is a bail out....
Posted by: Spot
» RE: A bail out is a bail out is a bail out....
Posted by: Diecash1
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Posted by: Carol Burns on Nov 14, 2008 6:42 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
fromthewilderness.com/free/ciadrugs/bush-cheney-drugs.html
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Posted by: Dana L. Stern on Nov 14, 2008 8:02 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Mr. Dana L. Stern
Posted by: Pop
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Posted by: truthteller on Nov 14, 2008 9:06 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A couple of years ago, GM sold off it's locomotive division to a Canadian based partnership. From the 1930's to the 1980's GM had built the best diesel-electric locomotives in the World and had 80% of the U. S. market, but went into a downward spiral of ever worsening design and quality control problems after that that made minor rival GE into the dominant locomotive builder today. The problems they had with their Electro-Motive Division mirrored the problems with the rest of the company. First they quit building complete locomotives in the U. S. at LaGrange, IL, then they dumped the entire division, now based in London, ON.
I'm sure most Americans are not aware of this, but there is not one single successful company based in the U. S. that builds new rail-passenger, or rail-transit vehicles. The best you get here is final assembly of foreign built vehicles. GE is the ONLY U. S. manufacturer of totally new, self-designed and built diesel-electric locomotives from scratch. Brookville Locomotive (formerly just a maker of small, industrial railroad "critters") just got into the manufacture of a limited number of mainline locomotives from supplier provided components, and MPI in Idaho makes remanufactured locomotives from used/wrecked locomotives and new parts. No U. S. manufacturer builds totally electric locomotives or trains.
The U. S. auto industry was able to gear up in the early 1940's to build military vehicles and planes for WWII. If we are to come to their aid this time, we need to get them to build what this country really needs for people to get around - mass transit and passenger rail vehicles.
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» THANK YOU !
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: We need the industrial infrastructure, but...
Posted by: monkeywrench
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Posted by: REDgodowar on Nov 14, 2008 10:07 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He successfully has invoked that image, and fooled most to believe that he is.
Cowboys value honor, courage, your "word" is your promise and contract, giving up all to help others in need, resourcefulness and endurance in dire circumstances, friendliness to all (not just an elite group), etc.
Bush personifies not one of these qualities.
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» RE: "cowboy president"
Posted by: Malamute
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Posted by: AlienSlave on Nov 14, 2008 10:07 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Whining and petty jealousy....
Posted by: Diecash1
» RE: Whining and petty jealousy....
Posted by: AlienSlave
» RE: Whining and petty jealousy....
Posted by: IPF
» RE: Factory RATS
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Factory RATS
Posted by: AlienSlave
» How sweet it is
Posted by: MplsVala
» RE: How sweet it is
Posted by: AlienSlave
» LOLZ
Posted by: IPF
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Posted by: monkeywrench on Nov 14, 2008 10:48 AM
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Now, there's a legacy he can believe in!
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» RE: Is being "worst in history" a form of achievement?
Posted by: AlienSlave
» You are dreaming......
Posted by: Diecash1
» RE: You are dreaming......
Posted by: AlienSlave
» What kind of medication......
Posted by: Diecash1
» RE: What kind of medication......
Posted by: AlienSlave
» Ignorant as hell is more like it....
Posted by: Diecash1
» RE: Ignorant as hell is more like it....
Posted by: AlienSlave
» The oil-rich Middle East is the centre of the Universe
Posted by: outlook
» RE: The oil-rich Middle East is the centre of the Universe
Posted by: AlienSlave
» "worst in history" might go to some of GM's cars...
Posted by: IPF
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Posted by: maxpayne on Nov 14, 2008 10:49 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: And why is Obama planning on giving Big Auto another taxpayer funded bailout all the while leaving
Posted by: IPF
» RE: And why is Obama planning on giving Big Auto another taxpayer funded bailout all the while leavi
Posted by: 2thepoint
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Posted by: Archie1954 on Nov 14, 2008 11:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Spiritgirl on Nov 14, 2008 12:28 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The nerve, even as Ford does make hybrids for Latin American markets! Even as they are laying off workers, workers that could have been retrained with those earlier $$$$ that they received! Earlier as they were paying their lobbiests to fight against higher fuel standards! Okay, let's give them money - but there definitely need to be major strings attached! And while we're at it - let's just give every American citizen making under $200,000.00, $1 million dollars, just to make it even!!!!!!
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Posted by: amacd on Nov 14, 2008 6:49 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Any real progress must start with the investment industry which is the rotten core that determines and drives the abuses of all industrial sectors and all abuses of the ‘working class’.
As Nobel laurite in economics, Paul Krugman, has repeatedly noted in the NYTimes, “powerful stimulus needs to be progressive” --- which means it has to be 'externality positive' AND sustained, by individual as well as public investments.
Al Gore wrote a great op-ed here Sunday about the 'good news' synergies between new energy technologies, jobs, our environment, economic recovery, etc. But he didn't address the 'best news' which an economist like Krugman understands; that accepted government control over tax policy can change the whole balance of investing in our economy from one focused on negative externality scams to one of positive externality progress.
Yes, our US government already has the proper power and role of taxing investment in the production of things that hurt the economy, and giving tax breaks to things that help our economy, to provide true cost signals (which include externality costs) to industry --- so that the market functions FOR society, and not against it.
Four of the biggest industries in our democratic country are clearly producing things that hurt, rather than help, all of us: the financial industry – which produces ‘debt bombs’, the war industry --- which produces real bombs, the energy industry --- which produces globe-killing pollution, and the auto industry --- which produces energy consuming junk.
By simply starting with the first of these broken and destructive enabling industries, finance, we the people --- through our government, can use tax policy to channel trillions of our dollars into sustainable and honest investments for 21st century technologies and jobs, and away from dishonest, unsustainable and anti-investment schemes that produce nothing except pain for us and looted profits for the super-wealthy.
The starting point for this rebuilding of a healthy, progressive, honest, sustainable, and democratic investment industry is already in place – in the form of the new Socially Responsible Investment industry (SRI). We only need to expand on its success, assure (through government regulation and standards) that it honestly invests in positive (and not negative) externality industries, expand its scope and promote its image as the Socially Responsible and Honest Investment industry (SRHI), and give tax breaks to all Americans who invest in it for a better 21st century future, while applying extra tax costs to any laggards who want to continue to make money the ‘old fashioned way’, in the ‘fixed casino’ of ruthless investors of the old 19th century Wall Street of unbridled greed and destructive industries.
The snake of 'corporatist Empire' can best be killed by first cutting off its head --- the greedy, out-dated, and ANTI-social investment industry.
Alan MacDonald
Sanford, Maine
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» RE: Auto industry not issue. 'Corporate finacial Empire'
Posted by: IPF
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Posted by: upatriot on Nov 15, 2008 7:15 PM
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How can folks who consider themselves progressive support any form of corporate welfare. There has to be a better way to help American workers.
Visit my blog, UrbanPatriot.com
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