COMMENTS: 68
Will the Republican Party Ever Change?
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Even if some Republicans did want to shift toward a more bipartisan approach -- after more than three decades of successfully using "wedge" tactics and armed with a right-wing media infrastructure built to destroy opponents -- such a change might be impossible.
The idea of transforming modern Republicanism into some less partisan form might be like trying to train a boa constrictor which fork to use at the dinner table.
In recent years, whenever Republicans have talked about repudiating "partisan rancor" -- as John McCain did at the Republican National Convention -- it is followed by another binge of partisan rancor, like Sarah Palin's ugly rhetoric about Obama "palling around with terrorists" or McCain's own smearing of Obama as a "socialist."
Think back, too, on George W. Bush's sweet talk in Campaign 2000 about his "compassionate conservatism" that would respect opponents. That was followed by the bare-knuckled suppression of Florida's votes and then -- despite his tainted victory as a popular-vote loser -- Bush's hard-ball determination to enact a right-wing agenda.
After the 9/11 attacks, when Democrats and many other Americans swore off partisanship in the cause of national unity, Bush seized the moment to arrogate unprecedented powers to himself. Then, in fall 2002, he exploited America's fear and anger to push through a pre-election Iraq War authorization and still branded the Democrats as soft on terror.
In 2004, Bush and his political guru Karl Rove set their sights on a "permanent Republican majority" that would relegate the Democrats to a cosmetic appendage to what would really be a one-party state, with the Republicans controlling all levers of government power and backed by an intimidating right-wing news media.
For Bush, the notion of bipartisanship became: Do whatever I say. Otherwise, you get billed as unpatriotic and un-American -- deserving of abuse and even physical threats, like those meted out to the Dixie Chicks for daring to criticize Bush at a pre-Iraq-invasion concert.
Similarly, anyone who threatened Republican electoral dominance could expect steady doses of smears, like the Swift Boat attacks on John Kerry's Vietnam War heroism. At Bush's 2004 convention, some GOP delegates wore Purple Heart Band-Aids to mock the severity of Kerry's war wounds.
After Election 2004, with Bush gaining a second term and the Republicans again owning both houses of Congress, Rove ally Grover Norquist mused that Democrats should learn to get along in Washington by becoming like castrated pets to their Republican masters.
Fawning Press Corps
It may seem odd today with Bush's approval ratings in the 20th percentiles, but it's worth looking back on Bush's triumphalism after he got that second term.
Not only did the potent right-wing news media gush about his innate brilliance, but so did much of the mainstream press. Pundits were enthralled by Bush's grandiose Second Inaugural Address -- with its repetitious use of the words "freedom" and "liberty" even as Bush was trampling on the Founders' concepts of "unalienable rights" for all.
Only a series of Bush failures -- from his attempts to partially privatize Social Security to the worsening Iraq War to his bungled response to Hurricane Katrina -- began to wash away the veneer of Bush's infallibility.
Small news outlets mostly on the Internet and Comedy Central's "The Daily Show with Jon Stewart" gave voice to a popular awakening about the phoniness of Bush's tough-guy rhetoric and the obsequiousness of the major news media.
That critical narrative of Bush and the press gained traction through Campaign 2006 as Democrats rediscovered some long-lost courage and Bush sounded increasingly hysterical in his attempts to revive an excessive fear of terrorism. [For details, see our book Neck Deep.]
The result in November 2006 was a surprising electoral drubbing for Republicans, as Democrats erased GOP majorities and gained narrow control of Congress. However, in the wake of their victory, Democrats reverted to form, putting wishful thinking about bipartisanship ahead of hardheaded analysis.
Democrats hoped that Bush finally would take some bipartisan advice, like that from the Iraq Study Group -- headed by longtime Bush Family lawyer James Baker -- to begin drawing down U.S. troop levels in Iraq.
So, these Democrats widely misinterpreted the meaning of Bush's day-after-the-election firing of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and the appointment ISG member (and former CIA Director) Robert Gates as Rumsfeld's successor.
The Democrats wanted to believe that the Rumsfeld-to-Gates shift meant that Bush was taking to heart the ISG's drawdown recommendations, when the personnel change actually marked the opposite course.
The behind-the-scenes reality was that the arrogant-but-humbled Rumsfeld had evolved into a relative dove on the Iraq War, favoring the position of field commanders Generals George Casey and John Abizaid on keeping the U.S. footprint small and beginning a gradual withdrawal of combat forces.
By contrast, Gates, who had been a controversial figure at the CIA and was banished from the national stage after Bill Clinton's victory in 1992, was eager to reestablish his Washington credentials. Thus, Gates was willing to play the "yes man" to Bush's more hawkish desires, such as the escalation of U.S. forces in Iraq, the so-called "surge."
Getting Blindsided
Although much of this reality was known before Gates's confirmation hearing in December 2006 -- the New York Times had obtained and published Rumsfeld's pre-election drawdown memo on Dec. 3 -- the Democrats ignored it during what amounted to a unanimous love-fest at Gates's hearing on Dec. 5.
As it turned out, the dreamy-eyed Democrats got blindsided. The Bush administration sent 30,000 more combat troops to Iraq and then argued that the "surge" led to a decline in overall violence -- even as 1,000 more American soldiers died. Republicans said Democrats advocated "defeat," "a white flag" and "surrender."
Even though many U.S. military experts considered the proclaimed "surge success" a myth -- crediting the drop in violence to other factors such as the pre-surge Anbar Awakening and new high-tech methods for tracking and killing insurgent leaders -- the Republicans continued to beat Democrats over the head with the "surge."
Now, in the wake of Obama's solid victory and an expanded Democratic control of Congress, some Republicans are having second thoughts about the wisdom of the GOP's nasty political style.
Dov. S. Zakheim, a foreign policy adviser to Bush's 2000 campaign and a Pentagon official during the first term, lamented in a Washington Post opinion article that Bush dropped his "compassionate conservative" mask soon after taking office.
"We came to a bitterly divided Washington and poured salt on partisan wounds, culminating in an ugly divide-and-rule style of politics," Zakheim acknowledged.
That style continued through Election 2008 with the McCain campaign's endless references to Obama's tenuous connection to Vietnam War-era radical William Ayers and Sarah Palin's attempts to pit "real America" against supposedly less patriotic parts of the country.
Yet, despite the failure of that political approach on Nov. 4, the current question must be whether the Republican Party can change its stripes. With fewer moderate Republicans left in Congress, the residue is even more concentrated with radical right-wingers who know little beyond the "ugly divide-and-rule" politics.
Plus, there is the powerful right-wing media infrastructure that runs on the high-octane fuel of hate and anti-liberal conspiracy theories. This machinery faces a business imperative to find new attack lines that can be used to tear down Obama and build up audience share.
Only two days after the election, right-wing leaders gathered at the Shenandoah Valley country home of liberal-hating media critic Brent Bozell to plot a route back to power.
Meanwhile, radio talk show host Rush Limbaugh -- who played a key role in rallying Republicans after Bill Clinton's victory in 1992 -- declared war on two targets: the "country-club" Republicans and the Obama administration.
"We're going to be taking on two things here [over] the next four years: Obama, and our own party establishment," Limbaugh vowed.
So, while many in the national news media are waiting to see how Obama will live up to his pledge of seeking to end partisan bickering in Washington, the more relevant point of observation might be to watch what the Republicans do.
It might finally be time to suggest that the Republicans go first.
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Posted by: jreinhart1 on Nov 13, 2008 1:07 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Where have all the conservatives gone?
Posted by: CatDad
» Conservatism is dead
Posted by: jreinhart1
» RE: Where have all the conservatives gone, to liberal cities, yikes?
Posted by: wallisp
» RE: Where have all the conservatives gone?
Posted by: boing007
» RE: Where have all the conservatives gone?
Posted by: mr. joshua
» RE: Where have all the conservatives gone?
Posted by: Arlene
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Posted by: AlexLawyer on Nov 13, 2008 2:34 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As their party has edged further to the right under the influence of Limbaugh, Fox, and the rest of the know-nothing Greek chorus, Republicans have become caricatures of their former selves.
Better are people like Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins, and the Mitt Romney of old before he sold his soul to gain the evangelical vote.
Nationally, there just doesn't seem to be any place for a socially moderate, sane conservative to go.
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» I don't understand the problem here. Abandon the label!
Posted by: rancespergl
» RE: I don't understand the problem here. Abandon the label!
Posted by: fitzjohn
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Nov 13, 2008 2:51 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Which would be fine and dandy with me, thank you very much. Between you and me and the lamp post, I'm sick of these people. I just want them to go away. I've had to endure these half-witted, bloviating gas bags for thirty years now. Going all the way back to Jerry Falwell, I'm sick and tired of them distorting the teachings of our Lord and Savior (Okay, my Lord and Savior). Have any of them even read the Sermon on the Mount? A series of blessings so at odds with the modern day philosophy of the conservative movement, one has to wonder.
Believe me, if fate dictates that George W. Bush turns out to be the last Republcian president, there will be no tears on this end. I suspect that there will be no tears in Heaven either.
Me 'n' George
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
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» RE: They'd Better Change
Posted by: Woodpecker
» RE: They'd Better Change
Posted by: RedWalt67
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Posted by: Perry Logan on Nov 13, 2008 4:34 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
(And I say that with love.)
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Posted by: xvictor on Nov 13, 2008 4:49 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: "Will the Republican Party Ever Change?"
Posted by: RedWalt67
» RE: "Will the Republican Party Ever Change?"
Posted by: Beck
» RE: "Will the Republican Party Ever Change?"
Posted by: mr. joshua
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Posted by: maxpayne on Nov 13, 2008 5:11 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: daniel1982 on Nov 13, 2008 6:59 AM
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You think Democrats are not partisan? You're delusional.
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» RE: Are you serious?
Posted by: RedWalt67
» RE: Are you serious?
Posted by: daniel1982
» Stop being delusional like a bastardized "conservative" and wake up dude.
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Stop being delusional like a bastardized "conservative" and wake up dude.
Posted by: daniel1982
» RE: Stop being delusional like a bastardized "conservative" and wake up dude.
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Stop being delusional like a bastardized "conservative" and wake up dude.
Posted by: daniel1982
» RE: Stop being delusional like a bastardized "conservative" and wake up dude.
Posted by: maxpayne
» I rest my case
Posted by: ohb0b
» You're just spewing crap.
Posted by: rancespergl
» RE: Are you serious?
Posted by: mr. joshua
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Posted by: democraticcritique.us on Nov 13, 2008 7:12 AM
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» Some good points here...
Posted by: popeurbanxxiii
» RE: Some good points here...
Posted by: mr. joshua
» RE: democraticcritique.us
Posted by: daniel1982
» RE: democraticcritique.us
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: democraticcritique.us
Posted by: madregal
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Posted by: ABetterFuture on Nov 13, 2008 7:46 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You're introducing a states' rights issue into the procedural B.S. that goes on in Congress. Your opinion of whether the votes should have been counted a fourth time, an eighth time, or a twelfth time are fine and dandy.
The distinction should be drawn somewhere. It was drawn in a way that you didn't approve of, not in a way that was inconsistent with our Constitution.
Now, had Gore won, we might have ended up with a much better situation--I'll certainly concede and opine that direction. Relegating the U.S. to a banana republic, at the time, didn't seem appropriate. Therefore, the liberal-leaning (at the time, anyway) Supremes stepped in, and stopped the perpetual recount party in FL.
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» The issue of how poorly our Supreme Court interpreted...
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: Not to object to the stupidity of republicanism versus democraticism, but...
Posted by: daniel1982
» RE: Not to object to the stupidity of republicanism versus democraticism, but...
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Not to object to the stupidity of republicanism versus democraticism, but...
Posted by: madregal
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Posted by: ClassAct on Nov 13, 2008 7:55 AM
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Posted by: ABetterFuture on Nov 13, 2008 8:10 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yeah, we get that you want to be on the winning team. Hooray.
Can we concede, at least in part, that the republican (winner) domination over the last four of eight years has been a failure? I think...yeah...maybe.
Can we begin to think about how unchecked legislation offered by the democrats, in a manner similar to republicans, could create a separate set of problems, compounded by the ones created by republican-only control?
Meh. Maybe, and maybe not. Fair enough.
Deliberation and thoughtfulness were lost under Bush. Utterly and totally lost. He surrounded himself with "yes-men" and surrogates, and didn't give one hoot in hell for an opposing mindset. It was party first, and party all the time...and we are suffering for it.
We could genuinely use a major party that concerned itself with responsible taxation and spending. We could genuinely use a major party that concerned itself with the environment. We could genuinely use a major party that concerned itself with the rights of workers, unionized or not. We could genuinely use a major party that promotes the interests of business. We could genuinely use a major party that busied itself with the issues of Constitutional protections...
What we lose is everything, aside from the politics of "winners and losers" when we limit ourselves to demoboob and republicrat.
To succeed as as nation, we must move beyond the idiotic pendulum that we have embraced. Who gives 3 tin sh_ts if the republicans survive? Or the demobots? Where will we be ten years from now, under the current policies, with the best predictions that educated folks can give on issues of economics, militarization, world conflicts, trade, and etc.?
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» Excellent post. Good job.
Posted by: rancespergl
» Thx. More parties instead of more parisitism would give us lots...
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: Meh...you adapt and survive or you die out.
Posted by: madregal
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Posted by: LeeAnnG on Nov 13, 2008 8:32 AM
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Particularly when it comes to the environment, they are making changes that apparently will be difficult to reverse. Much of this is truly important and relevant to the lives of everyone on the planet.
In addition, there's a rather insignificant (perhaps) ruling that doesn't affect lots of people, but is quite significant to others. I got an email today from the Poker Players Alliance:
"Despite the efforts of the poker community, the opposition of the banks and the recent news exposing inappropriate influence by the White House, today the current administration finalized the UIGEA regulations to be made effective on January 19th the day before president-elect Obama officially takes office."
This is the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act, which prohibits banks and other financial institutions from transferring money to poker sites. It's a bit like the stand they take about medical marijuana (and pot prohibition in general) - no logic or reasoning will change their minds. There are other forces at work here.
Interestingly, sports betting is not included in this act, which was proposed and promoted by Bill Frist and tacked onto a non-related bit of legislation concerning (I believe) national security. So the NFL supports it. Hypocrisy much?
Funny how Bingo, which is absolute unmitigated gambling with no skill involved whatsoever, is not outlawed anywhere I know of, but poker, which requires a great deal of skill, is considered somehow immoral and in need of close regulation. Why should it be illegal for my bank to transfer my money from my checking account to a poker site?
Perhaps casino magnates prefer to keep poker restricted to brick and mortar games. Perhaps the religious right is involved. But at a time when the government needs all the revenue it can get, doesn't it seem counterproductive to refuse the taxes that could be generated through this popular activity? (Note: the BANKS oppose the UIGEA! Even if they goofed up on other parts of the economy, they know poker makes money.)
Yeah, I know this is rather off-topic. But it's just another example of the way in which the Bush administration is using its final days to screw as many people as possible.
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Posted by: oregoncharles on Nov 13, 2008 8:54 AM
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Had that about right, didn't he? That's exactly the way they behaved, even with a majority.
Now we shall see who they REALLY are (but hey, I remember the Clinton administration that Mr. "Change!" is getting his people from.)
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» RE: Grover Norquist's Prophecy
Posted by: boing007
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Posted by: DaBear on Nov 13, 2008 10:09 AM
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That so many liberals cannot seem to grasp this is not merely shocking but will also be the inevitable downfall of democracy itself.
Progressives need to rise up because, even with Obama-the-Messiah, solutions will not occur without our direct influence and just action.
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» RE: Cover not ducks
Posted by: madregal
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Posted by: boing007 on Nov 13, 2008 11:31 AM
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Agreed. Sarah Palin reminds me of Bush.
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Posted by: hurricane hugo on Nov 13, 2008 11:50 AM
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#@!
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Posted by: login@bugmenot.com on Nov 13, 2008 12:58 PM
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however Ron Paul is getting kinda old, and people think hes just a crazy old man. so he needs to keep talking his talk, and maybe run for senate? but he needs some new young people to carry his message in a new way. the campaign for liberty needs a new face.
anyway i see good things on the horizon for america: the DISTANT horizon... AFTER the supercollapse/reorganization. 2015, 2020 maybe?
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» RE: RON PAUL...
Posted by: mr. joshua
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Posted by: Spiritgirl on Nov 13, 2008 2:28 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These people tend to have been born to follow - and while they see the dirt in your house, they are averse to seeing the dirt in their own homes! These people have found it convenient to dismiss all rational debates on the basis of arguments based on "their understandings of biblical prophesy" or on that "liberal media"! Since we now realize that at least one-third of all Americans no longer read - and if they do they have no understanding of what they have read, it would behoove those of us that have some learning to engage these people on the level of a decent, well trained, precocious 6 year old! However, precaution must be taken lest they realize and become offended!
And yes this is a very simple watered down theory of why Republicans act the way they do, it is based on objective observations of "Joe the plumber".
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Posted by: joeocho88 on Nov 13, 2008 4:19 PM
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It didn't matter which political party was in power, some greedy, ignorant, crooked ******* would somehow manage to cause a recession, a financial panic or otherwise manipulate the market so I ended up always trying to find an underemployment job just to stay alive.
When I learned that Kerry was Bush II's cousin, I realized that there was a small, incestuous group of elites from the northeastern United States who have DOMINATED this country from its beginnings and brought hell down on the rest of us.
And when I heard Henry Kissinger, their court jester, declare that the majority of us (80 percent)were "Useless Eaters" unworthy to be alive, the truth hit home that this is a country for the elites, by the elites,to the elites and from the elites.
AND IT DOESN'T MATTER WHICH ONE OF THEIR POLITICAL FACTIONS IS IN CHARGE!
So when they forget about the rest of us, since we are only fit to be stampeded, herded and insulted like the "useless eating" cattle and rabble that we are ASSUMED by them to be, THESE GENTLEMANLY DEAL BEAILOUTS should come as no surprise. I was ANGERED, DISGUSTED AND REPULSED as ANY American should have been. Especially that MY tax money should be subsidizing the ELITES' GAMBLING while I can barely get enough to eat, never mind medical or dental care or even housing!
I am scared. I am depressed and I am ANGRY!
So I voted for the man who advocated CHANGE and I must not have been alone because he was swept on a landslide.
AND THEN I THOUGHT.
HIS FATHER WAS NO POOR BOY FROM AFRICA.
HIS MOTHER WAS NO POOR GIRL FROM AMERICA!
In fact, look up who his mother is related to.
AND YOU TELL ME, HOW DIFFERENT IS IT REALLY GOING TO BE!
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Posted by: johnsmithson on Nov 13, 2008 5:00 PM
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Why is it Republicans always are the ones criticized for not reaching across the aisle?
Have you ever seen a Democrat other than Joe Lieberman reach across the aisle? And he is hated for it by the Democratic party. That speaks volumes.
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» Listening to too much rightwing hate talk out there I see.
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Listening to too much rightwing hate talk out there I see.
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Listening to too much rightwing hate talk out there I see.
Posted by: maxpayne
Comments are closed-
Posted by: 2thepoint on Nov 13, 2008 6:45 PM
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The democrat party is asking if the republicans will ever become less partisan?
With the likes of McCain who invited Leibermann to give the keynote speech at the RNC I doubt the democrats can preach to bipartisanship anyone!
Obama, like most Presidents make that "we are all one nation" but in the end it's screw you if you are part of the other party!
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» Joe LIEberNAZI is a DISGRACE to good Jews, the Democrats, and to this country.
Posted by: maxpayne
» SECULAR SOCIALISM IS NEVER THE ANSWER
Posted by: reelman
» RE: SECULAR SOCIALISM IS NEVER THE ANSWER
Posted by: TheNamelessCity
» RE: SECULAR SOCIALISM IS NEVER THE ANSWER
Posted by: maxpayne
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Posted by: HANGTRAITORS on Nov 15, 2008 3:58 PM
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The only rational conclusion is that, despite their cynical "family values" propaganda, the Republican Party is a criminal conspiracy to betray the interests of the American people
in favor of plutocratic and corporate interests, and absolutist religious groups.
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Posted by: jreinhart1 on Nov 13, 2008 1:07 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Where have all the conservatives gone?
Posted by: CatDad
» Conservatism is dead
Posted by: jreinhart1
» RE: Where have all the conservatives gone, to liberal cities, yikes?
Posted by: wallisp
» RE: Where have all the conservatives gone?
Posted by: boing007
» RE: Where have all the conservatives gone?
Posted by: mr. joshua
» RE: Where have all the conservatives gone?
Posted by: Arlene
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Posted by: AlexLawyer on Nov 13, 2008 2:34 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As their party has edged further to the right under the influence of Limbaugh, Fox, and the rest of the know-nothing Greek chorus, Republicans have become caricatures of their former selves.
Better are people like Olympia Snowe and Susan Collins, and the Mitt Romney of old before he sold his soul to gain the evangelical vote.
Nationally, there just doesn't seem to be any place for a socially moderate, sane conservative to go.
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» I don't understand the problem here. Abandon the label!
Posted by: rancespergl
» RE: I don't understand the problem here. Abandon the label!
Posted by: fitzjohn
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Nov 13, 2008 2:51 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Which would be fine and dandy with me, thank you very much. Between you and me and the lamp post, I'm sick of these people. I just want them to go away. I've had to endure these half-witted, bloviating gas bags for thirty years now. Going all the way back to Jerry Falwell, I'm sick and tired of them distorting the teachings of our Lord and Savior (Okay, my Lord and Savior). Have any of them even read the Sermon on the Mount? A series of blessings so at odds with the modern day philosophy of the conservative movement, one has to wonder.
Believe me, if fate dictates that George W. Bush turns out to be the last Republcian president, there will be no tears on this end. I suspect that there will be no tears in Heaven either.
Me 'n' George
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
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» RE: They'd Better Change
Posted by: Woodpecker
» RE: They'd Better Change
Posted by: RedWalt67
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Posted by: Perry Logan on Nov 13, 2008 4:34 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
(And I say that with love.)
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Posted by: xvictor on Nov 13, 2008 4:49 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: "Will the Republican Party Ever Change?"
Posted by: RedWalt67
» RE: "Will the Republican Party Ever Change?"
Posted by: Beck
» RE: "Will the Republican Party Ever Change?"
Posted by: mr. joshua
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Posted by: maxpayne on Nov 13, 2008 5:11 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: daniel1982 on Nov 13, 2008 6:59 AM
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You think Democrats are not partisan? You're delusional.
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» RE: Are you serious?
Posted by: RedWalt67
» RE: Are you serious?
Posted by: daniel1982
» Stop being delusional like a bastardized "conservative" and wake up dude.
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Stop being delusional like a bastardized "conservative" and wake up dude.
Posted by: daniel1982
» RE: Stop being delusional like a bastardized "conservative" and wake up dude.
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Stop being delusional like a bastardized "conservative" and wake up dude.
Posted by: daniel1982
» RE: Stop being delusional like a bastardized "conservative" and wake up dude.
Posted by: maxpayne
» I rest my case
Posted by: ohb0b
» You're just spewing crap.
Posted by: rancespergl
» RE: Are you serious?
Posted by: mr. joshua
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Posted by: democraticcritique.us on Nov 13, 2008 7:12 AM
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» Some good points here...
Posted by: popeurbanxxiii
» RE: Some good points here...
Posted by: mr. joshua
» RE: democraticcritique.us
Posted by: daniel1982
» RE: democraticcritique.us
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: democraticcritique.us
Posted by: madregal
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Posted by: ABetterFuture on Nov 13, 2008 7:46 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You're introducing a states' rights issue into the procedural B.S. that goes on in Congress. Your opinion of whether the votes should have been counted a fourth time, an eighth time, or a twelfth time are fine and dandy.
The distinction should be drawn somewhere. It was drawn in a way that you didn't approve of, not in a way that was inconsistent with our Constitution.
Now, had Gore won, we might have ended up with a much better situation--I'll certainly concede and opine that direction. Relegating the U.S. to a banana republic, at the time, didn't seem appropriate. Therefore, the liberal-leaning (at the time, anyway) Supremes stepped in, and stopped the perpetual recount party in FL.
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» The issue of how poorly our Supreme Court interpreted...
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: Not to object to the stupidity of republicanism versus democraticism, but...
Posted by: daniel1982
» RE: Not to object to the stupidity of republicanism versus democraticism, but...
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Not to object to the stupidity of republicanism versus democraticism, but...
Posted by: madregal
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Posted by: ClassAct on Nov 13, 2008 7:55 AM
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Posted by: ABetterFuture on Nov 13, 2008 8:10 AM
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Yeah, we get that you want to be on the winning team. Hooray.
Can we concede, at least in part, that the republican (winner) domination over the last four of eight years has been a failure? I think...yeah...maybe.
Can we begin to think about how unchecked legislation offered by the democrats, in a manner similar to republicans, could create a separate set of problems, compounded by the ones created by republican-only control?
Meh. Maybe, and maybe not. Fair enough.
Deliberation and thoughtfulness were lost under Bush. Utterly and totally lost. He surrounded himself with "yes-men" and surrogates, and didn't give one hoot in hell for an opposing mindset. It was party first, and party all the time...and we are suffering for it.
We could genuinely use a major party that concerned itself with responsible taxation and spending. We could genuinely use a major party that concerned itself with the environment. We could genuinely use a major party that concerned itself with the rights of workers, unionized or not. We could genuinely use a major party that promotes the interests of business. We could genuinely use a major party that busied itself with the issues of Constitutional protections...
What we lose is everything, aside from the politics of "winners and losers" when we limit ourselves to demoboob and republicrat.
To succeed as as nation, we must move beyond the idiotic pendulum that we have embraced. Who gives 3 tin sh_ts if the republicans survive? Or the demobots? Where will we be ten years from now, under the current policies, with the best predictions that educated folks can give on issues of economics, militarization, world conflicts, trade, and etc.?
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» Excellent post. Good job.
Posted by: rancespergl
» Thx. More parties instead of more parisitism would give us lots...
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: Meh...you adapt and survive or you die out.
Posted by: madregal
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Posted by: LeeAnnG on Nov 13, 2008 8:32 AM
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Particularly when it comes to the environment, they are making changes that apparently will be difficult to reverse. Much of this is truly important and relevant to the lives of everyone on the planet.
In addition, there's a rather insignificant (perhaps) ruling that doesn't affect lots of people, but is quite significant to others. I got an email today from the Poker Players Alliance:
"Despite the efforts of the poker community, the opposition of the banks and the recent news exposing inappropriate influence by the White House, today the current administration finalized the UIGEA regulations to be made effective on January 19th the day before president-elect Obama officially takes office."
This is the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act, which prohibits banks and other financial institutions from transferring money to poker sites. It's a bit like the stand they take about medical marijuana (and pot prohibition in general) - no logic or reasoning will change their minds. There are other forces at work here.
Interestingly, sports betting is not included in this act, which was proposed and promoted by Bill Frist and tacked onto a non-related bit of legislation concerning (I believe) national security. So the NFL supports it. Hypocrisy much?
Funny how Bingo, which is absolute unmitigated gambling with no skill involved whatsoever, is not outlawed anywhere I know of, but poker, which requires a great deal of skill, is considered somehow immoral and in need of close regulation. Why should it be illegal for my bank to transfer my money from my checking account to a poker site?
Perhaps casino magnates prefer to keep poker restricted to brick and mortar games. Perhaps the religious right is involved. But at a time when the government needs all the revenue it can get, doesn't it seem counterproductive to refuse the taxes that could be generated through this popular activity? (Note: the BANKS oppose the UIGEA! Even if they goofed up on other parts of the economy, they know poker makes money.)
Yeah, I know this is rather off-topic. But it's just another example of the way in which the Bush administration is using its final days to screw as many people as possible.
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Posted by: oregoncharles on Nov 13, 2008 8:54 AM
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Had that about right, didn't he? That's exactly the way they behaved, even with a majority.
Now we shall see who they REALLY are (but hey, I remember the Clinton administration that Mr. "Change!" is getting his people from.)
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» RE: Grover Norquist's Prophecy
Posted by: boing007
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Posted by: DaBear on Nov 13, 2008 10:09 AM
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That so many liberals cannot seem to grasp this is not merely shocking but will also be the inevitable downfall of democracy itself.
Progressives need to rise up because, even with Obama-the-Messiah, solutions will not occur without our direct influence and just action.
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» RE: Cover not ducks
Posted by: madregal
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Posted by: boing007 on Nov 13, 2008 11:31 AM
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Agreed. Sarah Palin reminds me of Bush.
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Posted by: hurricane hugo on Nov 13, 2008 11:50 AM
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#@!
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Posted by: login@bugmenot.com on Nov 13, 2008 12:58 PM
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however Ron Paul is getting kinda old, and people think hes just a crazy old man. so he needs to keep talking his talk, and maybe run for senate? but he needs some new young people to carry his message in a new way. the campaign for liberty needs a new face.
anyway i see good things on the horizon for america: the DISTANT horizon... AFTER the supercollapse/reorganization. 2015, 2020 maybe?
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» RE: RON PAUL...
Posted by: mr. joshua
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Posted by: Spiritgirl on Nov 13, 2008 2:28 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These people tend to have been born to follow - and while they see the dirt in your house, they are averse to seeing the dirt in their own homes! These people have found it convenient to dismiss all rational debates on the basis of arguments based on "their understandings of biblical prophesy" or on that "liberal media"! Since we now realize that at least one-third of all Americans no longer read - and if they do they have no understanding of what they have read, it would behoove those of us that have some learning to engage these people on the level of a decent, well trained, precocious 6 year old! However, precaution must be taken lest they realize and become offended!
And yes this is a very simple watered down theory of why Republicans act the way they do, it is based on objective observations of "Joe the plumber".
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Posted by: joeocho88 on Nov 13, 2008 4:19 PM
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It didn't matter which political party was in power, some greedy, ignorant, crooked ******* would somehow manage to cause a recession, a financial panic or otherwise manipulate the market so I ended up always trying to find an underemployment job just to stay alive.
When I learned that Kerry was Bush II's cousin, I realized that there was a small, incestuous group of elites from the northeastern United States who have DOMINATED this country from its beginnings and brought hell down on the rest of us.
And when I heard Henry Kissinger, their court jester, declare that the majority of us (80 percent)were "Useless Eaters" unworthy to be alive, the truth hit home that this is a country for the elites, by the elites,to the elites and from the elites.
AND IT DOESN'T MATTER WHICH ONE OF THEIR POLITICAL FACTIONS IS IN CHARGE!
So when they forget about the rest of us, since we are only fit to be stampeded, herded and insulted like the "useless eating" cattle and rabble that we are ASSUMED by them to be, THESE GENTLEMANLY DEAL BEAILOUTS should come as no surprise. I was ANGERED, DISGUSTED AND REPULSED as ANY American should have been. Especially that MY tax money should be subsidizing the ELITES' GAMBLING while I can barely get enough to eat, never mind medical or dental care or even housing!
I am scared. I am depressed and I am ANGRY!
So I voted for the man who advocated CHANGE and I must not have been alone because he was swept on a landslide.
AND THEN I THOUGHT.
HIS FATHER WAS NO POOR BOY FROM AFRICA.
HIS MOTHER WAS NO POOR GIRL FROM AMERICA!
In fact, look up who his mother is related to.
AND YOU TELL ME, HOW DIFFERENT IS IT REALLY GOING TO BE!
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Posted by: johnsmithson on Nov 13, 2008 5:00 PM
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Why is it Republicans always are the ones criticized for not reaching across the aisle?
Have you ever seen a Democrat other than Joe Lieberman reach across the aisle? And he is hated for it by the Democratic party. That speaks volumes.
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» Listening to too much rightwing hate talk out there I see.
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: Listening to too much rightwing hate talk out there I see.
Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Listening to too much rightwing hate talk out there I see.
Posted by: maxpayne
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Posted by: 2thepoint on Nov 13, 2008 6:45 PM
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The democrat party is asking if the republicans will ever become less partisan?
With the likes of McCain who invited Leibermann to give the keynote speech at the RNC I doubt the democrats can preach to bipartisanship anyone!
Obama, like most Presidents make that "we are all one nation" but in the end it's screw you if you are part of the other party!
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» Joe LIEberNAZI is a DISGRACE to good Jews, the Democrats, and to this country.
Posted by: maxpayne
» SECULAR SOCIALISM IS NEVER THE ANSWER
Posted by: reelman
» RE: SECULAR SOCIALISM IS NEVER THE ANSWER
Posted by: TheNamelessCity
» RE: SECULAR SOCIALISM IS NEVER THE ANSWER
Posted by: maxpayne
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Posted by: HANGTRAITORS on Nov 15, 2008 3:58 PM
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The only rational conclusion is that, despite their cynical "family values" propaganda, the Republican Party is a criminal conspiracy to betray the interests of the American people
in favor of plutocratic and corporate interests, and absolutist religious groups.
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