COMMENTS: 84
The America We Never Seem to Talk About (Photo Essay)
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Photographer Brenda Ann Kenneally, author of Money, Power, Respect, documents the permanently poor in Troy, N.Y., once a proud industrial boomtown with a rich labor history, now a city of female-headed households where big box stores and penitentiaries are the only sources of employment.
Nina Berman talks to Kenneally about her hometown of Troy, the mothers and daughters she photographs, the culture of incarceration in Troy and whether the presidential race has any resonance.
Nina Berman: You've been photographing poor, female-headed households in the mainly white, post-industrial town of Troy, New York. How is the presidential election playing out among these voters?
Ann Kenneally: I would say that the current elections are of little interest to the women that I know in Troy. Most of them said they would not vote, and those with felony convictions can't vote. One young woman thought Obama was David Paterson, New York's new African-American governor. Those with strong church connections had no opinion because they told me that their kingdom is of God and not man. A woman I met who cleans rooms at the Econolodge thought George Washington was our best president, and that's about as far as she went. As for Sarah Palin, most of the people didn't know who she was, and those who did weren't ready to vote for her simply because she was a woman.
NB: The title of your work is "Upstate Girls." Upstate, meaning it's north of New York City, but upstate has another connotation.
AK: Yes -- "Upstate" is a phrase that is well known in New York street culture, now also interchangeable with "Up North." It is a stable in hip-hop lyrics and needs no clarification among families whose involvement with the legal system is all-pervasive. The phrase is, of course, demographically, relevant. Well-heeled New Yorkers often keep vacation homes "upstate." I was clearly reminded of the two Americas a few years ago when one of my godsons from Bedford Stuyvesant was attending a function at my son's Manhattan school. He heard one of the parents talking about their summer getaway upstate, and later asked me who in that woman's family was "locked up."
NB: How was this "upstate" born?
AK: It came into being during the 1970s with the enactment of the Rockefeller drug laws, which created thousands of new convicts facing drug sentences of 10, 20, even 30 years for possession charges. The result was a prison boom upstate, which became increasingly important in towns like Troy, as manufacturing jobs were lost to globalization. So young male inmates with brown skin and low incomes were shipped from New York City to be counted as widgets in the state inventory where government money was awarded according to population numbers. And the only population gain in upstate New York over the past 10 years has been from inmates and those connected to inmates. Drug crimes have risen and the local police and sheriff have adopted a zero-tolerance policy, Giuliani-style, leading to more arrests and incarcerations, and the circle spins round and round. This has particularly impacted juveniles. There is now a special section in Albany County Jail for under 18 years old known as "baby jail."
The policy of judicial intervention has become more widely acceptable, spreading to schools -- children who are seen as behavioral problems are required to take medication. If parents do not comply, there have been cases where the parents have been charged with neglect through family court. The medication is seen as a permanent solution to an often short-term problem and can turn into another form of warehousing already disadvantaged young people. Many times the students have problems because they lack structure at home due to a working mother and an incarcerated father, so it is like they are criminalized at every turn. I met one woman who had been arrested and jailed because her teenage daughter became pregnant while "living under her mother's roof." It happened during a period when the woman was working at Wal-Mart and the daughter was home unsupervised. She was reported by a bitter ex-husband.
NB: You were in a group home when you were a teenager living in upstate New York. How does your experience from 30 years ago inform your photographs now, and what has changed since you were a teenager?
AK: I was in a group home in 1971 -- a result of a family court decision. My mother brought me before the judge asking for help in controlling me. She was divorced with three kids so she had to work. I was 6 when my mother went to work. By the time I was 12, I had been taking care of myself and my younger brother and sister, so I was not about to be told what to do. At any rate, I was the oldest so I got the worst punishment. When I went before the judge, she would not let me speak, and I remember feeling so angry -- I really had done nothing except not having any guidance. I had gotten a boyfriend that was much older than me, and I continued to see him even after my mother found out. The judge was very strict and spoke harshly to me as if he knew my situation. I refused to stay silent, somehow knowing that what I needed was a parent -- not a policeman. Anyway, I got into a lot of trouble, and I was called bad and incorrigible. And ever since that time, I have been a fierce advocate for "the bad and incorrigible" people, especially children and women. There are no bad children; this is an absurd concept, and it seemed to me then as now that the very system that labels you bad is the one that can make you bad. Women of every age seem to bear this stereotype, and society only loves an obvious victim.
Nothing has changed since I was teenager in upstate New York. In some cases, even the decor adds to the claustrophobia. I was different from my family and classmates -- I guess because I had older friends that I was told not to be with. These people saved my life. They were in that '60s, early '70s mindset of questioning authority and taught me about social hypocrisy. No one I knew thought like that, and it was liberating especially during a time when I was a prisoner, first of my family and then of the courts.
NB: Your photographs show three generations of poverty under one roof with no end to the cycle. Most of the men are in jail or have abandoned their partners and children. The women are battered in low-wage jobs, and the children, moved from apartment to shelter to youth homes, are traumatized, treated with prescription drugs for so-called learning disorders and depression. Through it all, more babies are being born. After spending five years photographing these families, what solutions can you imagine to stop the cycle?
AK: What saved me is this gift that came from the outside, almost like the big bang. I was lucky to meet some people who introduced me to radical thought. In these young women's lives, there is no outside air getting in. You buckle down and accept hard work and drudgery, and you conform. The schools, rather than trying to open their minds, are trying to just get them to learn a trade at best. Their parents have not gone through any higher education, so the way would not be paved by them.
The force that should have empowered these women was the feminist movement, but this took place among women of education and privilege and rarely reached "downward" to the sisters who could have not only benefited form the movement, but strengthened and diversified it in a way that would be valuable today in the empowerment of this permanent underclass of working female heads of household. This is the same problem that the youth movement of the '60s tried to address when the college-educated organizers tried to recruit the children of the proletariat. It was not seen as valuable to working class youth. ... It is the educated class that learns and takes seriously their role in the larger world. This is the role of education -- to expand the worldview. It is not as simple as the working-class kids did not have time to think of philosophical matters like stopping the war or fighting hypocrisy; they just did not understand this kind of impractical thinking, nor were they groomed to feel a sense of duty to such causes. Also, there was a resentment and suspicion for the educated class that still lingers today.
NB: The women and girls in your photographs look very masculine.
AK: I guess because they are tough, meaning they cannot afford to be vulnerable, as they often have to keep big male children in line and keep the place of respect in their homes. I think that it also has a lot to do with dealing with male children. I have one friend who I photographed who actually changed the timbre of her voice when she was speaking to a man on the phone. It was totally automatic. It was as if, in order to be taken seriously, she had to be male. This same woman who had two voices used to take her son to baseball games, and as she was yelling she would actually cup her crotch in a stereotypical male gesture. It is assumed that in order to get respect as a woman you have to act like a man. Also, there is some self-loathing that has been adopted in the same way as racism is internalized.
NB: Symbols of American popular culture are an obvious presence in many of your pictures and at times provide the strongest, most vibrant color in the frame. You see a child's face covered by a SpongeBob picture. You see a young girl wearing a Statue of Liberty crown. There is a poster of Britney Spears, and in one photo, a backpack with Bratz girls. To an outside viewer, these symbols feel ironic, almost mocking, like cruel jokes against the subjects of the photo. Describe the influence of popular and consumerist culture on the women and girls and also their relationship to obvious symbols of American pride and power -- the flag, the Statue of Liberty, etc.
AK: The items serve as emotional fixes and are marketed to imply an inclusion in American culture. But the reality is that the cycle of earning and consumption is a kind of slavery and makes it nearly impossible to get ahead. Consider what it does to young people on public assistance to be targeted by ad campaigns for $100-plus sneakers -- or worse, marketing so-called wholesome popular culture, acceptance of which is seen as progress and success. It's an endless covert cycle targeting low-wage workers.
Photographer Brenda Ann Kenneally is the author of Money, Power, Respect.
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Posted by: billjv on Nov 4, 2008 4:28 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Until we can provide good jobs for workers with good pay and not let companies just walk out on their community commitments when it's convenient for them to do so, things aren't going to change. Corporations have been given a free pass to abandon the infrastructure that was built by these workers - these workers MADE these companies what they are!!! Yet they pull out of these towns leaving a vacuous wasteland of empty factories and warehouses, unemployed people with not much more than a high school education, and usually serious drug and alcohol problems due to the stress of living in a city with no jobs and no hope.
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» RE: This is America
Posted by: Romantic Violence
» RE: This is America
Posted by: NYCartist
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Posted by: Bushmaster on Nov 4, 2008 5:49 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Who will stand up for the poor in this society? If no one stands up for them will they be cut down?
This is an excellent article and photo essay. Thanks for publishing it.
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» RE: Amazing Photo Essay
Posted by: clvngodess
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Posted by: RedFoxOne on Nov 4, 2008 6:23 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Jiff
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» Obama is much better than McCain but
Posted by: wolfgangmo
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Posted by: waltermoss on Nov 4, 2008 6:28 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: sad but true
Posted by: liz_imp
» RE: sad but true
Posted by: maxfactor
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Nov 4, 2008 6:56 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: WALMART DESTROYED MAIN STREET
Posted by: Bittersham2
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Posted by: Allstar Cookie on Nov 4, 2008 7:39 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Personally, I don't blame anybody for doing that and I don't think a black voter needs to make excuses for doing that.
I put myself in the shoes of a minority......and it has to be a comforting feeling, maybe in symbolism only, that you have representation sitting in the most powerful position in the country.....a country that once enslaved you......denied your voice to vote....made you sit in the back of a bus......take water from a different source.
We can talk policies all you want....and as a Republican most of you will disagree with my views. But please, don't call me a racist because I'm NOT voting for Obama.
I think Obama is going to win........I certainly don't fear that and a hope he does a great job.
However, I don't think it's going to change the lives of our poorest, single moms right here in Western New York.....in New Orleans.....or anywhere else. There are too many other factors that lead people to poverty........much of it, certainly not all, is self-inflicted.
If Obama loses.....lets hope there isn't chaos in the streets because that will only set us back further......and if Obama wins, lets hope there isn't chaos in the streets.......because that too will set us back.
Now.....I'm going to vote.
Allstar Cookie
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» RE: bootstraps and all that
Posted by: WyrdSister
» RE: bootstraps and all that
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» RE: bootstraps and all that
Posted by: WyrdSister
» I won't call you a racist, but I will call you a classist.
Posted by: wolfgangmo
» RE: I won't call you a racist, but I will call you a classist.
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» RE: I won't call you a racist, but I will call you a classist.
Posted by: liz_imp
» Your union was which?
Posted by: billwald
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Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN on Nov 4, 2008 7:40 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I slept in other peoples' vehicles or wherever.
It's much different for me now.
Long ago I got fed up with the imperious assholes who tell everyone ELSE to 'just say no", etc.
I also see through those who say, "You can change if you want to."
those who say that have full pockets & a roof,etc.
The reality is that some truly CANNOT just say no or change if they want to.
Some people CAN change their lives.
Fortunately I'm one who was able to.
I don't see this as me being "better' than the others.
I see myself as fortunate to be in circumstances which gave me the knowledge of how and opportunity to change my life.
I did every sort of drug you can imagine, the worst drug being alcohol.
It's been 25+ years since I stopped using.
I've been told how 'strong' I am because of all that.
Well, I'm not so sure about that.
I'm pretty damn happy & greatful that things have worked out as they did.
I'm 69 now and have all that 'middle class" shit such as a house, a business, truck & car.
Big fucking deal. It does NOT make me better than anyone else who was in the life in which I was.
How the hell can someone get out of it when they're truly STUCK in the neighborhoods which actually contribute to it and steal away the chance to have a better life?
I'm also fortunate that I'm a white guy.
I rum a business which brings me into peoples' homes.
I know some of these people are ignorantly racist and wouldn't allow a black guy in, especially in the small city I'm in in WI.
Yes, the drug laws DO need to be changed.
However, too many people just plain don't give a fuck about the people trapped in this shit life.
They pont at them any say derogatory things about the homeless, the druggies, etc.
Yet, they REFUSE to look at the fact that THEY ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM.
Their imperious attitudes manifest themselves into boots to KJEEP these people down.
You can't imagine the neat conversations I have with some of the stepped on people when they know about my old life and that it's legit when I say, "I know, etc."
It's a built in fact of the human race that there will ALWAYS be the stepped on, the un-concerned and the steppers.
Just say hello to someone you wonder about sometime.
It makes a difference.
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» RE: I was one of them
Posted by: Katiii
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Posted by: karenyoung521 on Nov 4, 2008 8:13 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Alternet: One Of The Best, But Could Be Better JDFU!
Posted by: DaBear
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Posted by: Marshalldoc on Nov 4, 2008 8:18 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have to say, though, that after viewing the photos & reading the interview, I felt the same sense of hopelessness I saw in the eyes of the people in the photos.
Sigh...
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Posted by: cherylholmes on Nov 4, 2008 8:47 AM
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Posted by: maxpayne on Nov 4, 2008 9:07 AM
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Posted by: Allstar Cookie on Nov 4, 2008 9:17 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Eight dollars an hour is better than sitting around playing video games all day.......or standing on street corners.
Bad jobs can lead to good jobs with the right attitude and work ethic.
You have to at least try........it's better than giving up.
Use birth control.....stay in school.....stay away from drugs....get into a trade.....college....military........and you'll have a chance.
Otherwise........you'll wind up like those in these photos.
Allstar Cookie
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» RE: Change comes from COMMUNITY...not the White House
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: Change comes from COMMUNITY...not the White House
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» RE: Change comes from COMMUNITY...not the White House
Posted by: liz_imp
» RE: Change comes from COMMUNITY...not the White House
Posted by: liz_imp
» RE: Change comes from COMMUNITY...not the White House
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Change comes from within...not the White House
Posted by: WyrdSister
» RE: Change comes from within...not the White House
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» RE: lifestyles
Posted by: WyrdSister
» RE: lifestyles
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» RE: nobody chooses to be born in poverty
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: nobody chooses to be born in poverty
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» RE: No...but what to do, what to do.....?
Posted by: Longdream
» RE: No...but what to do, what to do.....?
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» RE: No...but what to do, what to do.....?
Posted by: Longdream
» RE: No...but what to do, what to do.....?
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» RE: Yeah, laugh it up. You are SO flip and clever, I should be impressed
Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Yeah, laugh it up. You are SO flip and clever, I should be impressed
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» RE: Change comes from within...not the White House
Posted by: Bittersham2
» what a Loser: you think everyone has the tools they need, right?
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN
» RE: what a Loser: you think everyone has the tools they need, right?
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
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Posted by: billwald on Nov 4, 2008 10:49 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The death of shame hasn't changed the economics of human activity. Except in society where humans are a state asset, there is no system in which a single working class parent will not be on the bottom of the economic food chain because there are economic efficiencies produced by two adults working together.
Even in the construction trade two people working together are more efficient that two people working alone. Why? Think "Heavy lifting."
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» RE: This is a new phenomenon caused by the death of shame
Posted by: liz_imp
» RE: This is a new phenomenon caused by the death of shame
Posted by: liz_imp
» RE: This is a new phenomenon caused by the death of shame
Posted by: kegbot1
» RE: This is a new phenomenon caused by the death of shame
Posted by: Pissed Off Woman
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Posted by: writerman on Nov 4, 2008 11:00 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Over the last thirty years the gap between the rich and the poor has been increasing and the position of the poor, working or not, the decline has been speeding up.
What's tragic is the collosal waste of human potential and the moral degeneracy in society that seems to have washed its hands of millions of people, who have been relegated to the status of virtual slaves. And what of the children? Surely they deserve better? How can we turn our backs on them and consign them to the garbage dump?
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» RE: Not Just in America
Posted by: amerijake
» RE: Not Just in America
Posted by: liz_imp
» RE: Not Just in America
Posted by: liz_imp
» RE: Not Just in America
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: tmwright on Nov 6, 2008 6:33 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most Trojans are employed in government (Troy is 15 minutes North of the capital in Albany), in education (RPI and Russell Sage are located within the City, or in the growing arts and antiques district.
Troy is rapidily becomming a city of haves and have nots as more well heeled empty nesters move into the the Victorian townhouses that populate the downtown district and push the poor to the outer areas of the city.
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» This is why I like sites with posted comments.
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: The narrative falls short -- there is no prison inustry in Troy
Posted by: Bittersham2
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Posted by: edgeofnowhere on Nov 8, 2008 8:27 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Faces of the "free market"
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: Longdream on Nov 8, 2008 10:19 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't think people really look at poor folks, anyway. Not people like us, who think nothing of spending three bucks for a cup of coffee. These are folks who CAN'T spend three bucks for coffee, and probably can't spend three bucks for lunch, if they smoke. They're all pretty slender, so my guess is that they do. Has anyone checked out what cigarettes cost, lately?
The devil is in the details, my friends, my fellow Americans, my base, my homies, my buds.
Bootstraps? Boots? Let's cut the metaphors, shall we?
How do you learn reading as a habit when your parent doesn't read well, and there are no books in your home, and you never see her reading? She can't help with your schoolwork much, because she doesn't know the answers. You don't do so well in school, and you don't know anyone who's going to college. You can't go many places because you don't have a car, and the town's small so not so much transportation. You got pregnant when you were sixteen, and now your fourteen-year-old daughter is going with a boy. And you don't even know that not everyone thinks or feels or does things this way.
Details, details.
Go ahead. Pull out of that, if you can. Use whatever straps you can find.
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Posted by: daniel1982 on Nov 8, 2008 2:27 PM
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» RE: Am I the only one that thought ..
Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Am I the only one that thought ..
Posted by: daniel1982
» RE: Very good observations.
Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Very good observations.
Posted by: daniel1982
» RE: Whatever.
Posted by: Longdream
» You're forgetting about the emotional component
Posted by: Pissed Off Woman
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Posted by: gigantor21 on Nov 8, 2008 3:59 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From a nihilistic, pure politics standpoint, it makes perfect sense. The middle and upper class outnumber the poor by at least 5 to 1: those making more than $30,000 outnumber those below by about 3 to 1. Those above that threshold are far more likely to participate in the political process, and have more money to give to the campaigns, the media outlets reporting on them, and the corporations that funnel tons of money into both. In this day and age, the poor and disadvantaged are only good for tax breaks and brownie points with your constituents/customers.
Of course, it's complete bullshit to hew to those impulses--but it's the only way to fly for most politicians. I don't see that changing anytime soon.
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» 40 years ago, poverty was a political issue we were facing.
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: 40 years ago, poverty was a political issue we were facing.
Posted by: gigantor21
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Posted by: hilly7 on Nov 8, 2008 5:39 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We are crashing and even though McCain was far from the answer, Obama isn't it either, at this point there isn't one. I was excited that Obama won right up until I saw his cabinet, but I'm sure that the IMF and World Bank, the corporations and the wealthy were.
Thank you for semi waking up the people that say they are optimistic with a realistic view of the near the bottom. Want to see the poor in 6 months? Look into the mirror if your middle class. Want to see the poor of today in 6 months...they will not be here.
Right now, GM and Ford say they are going broke, but whatever you do, don't look at the 3 million dollar plant that GM is building in Russia, or the overtime Ford is being sued over not paying, in Russia. The taxpayer is about to help them help them, not us, but at our expense. Just like they did foreign governments with the Wall Street bail-out.
Then, like Venezuela and Iceland, we will file bankruptcy, and only then does the show begin. Pssst.. Do something!
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» Venezuela & Iceland have POWER FOR THE PEOPLE
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN
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Posted by: hilly7 on Nov 8, 2008 5:39 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We are crashing and even though McCain was far from the answer, Obama isn't it either, at this point there isn't one. I was excited that Obama won right up until I saw his cabinet, but I'm sure that the IMF and World Bank, the corporations and the wealthy were.
Thank you for semi waking up the people that say they are optimistic with a realistic view of the near the bottom. Want to see the poor in 6 months? Look into the mirror if your middle class. Want to see the poor of today in 6 months...they will not be here.
Right now, GM and Ford say they are going broke, but whatever you do, don't look at the 3 million dollar plant that GM is building in Russia, or the overtime Ford is being sued over not paying, in Russia. The taxpayer is about to help them help them, not us, but at our expense. Just like they did foreign governments with the Wall Street bail-out.
Then, like Venezuela and Iceland, we will file bankruptcy, and only then does the show begin. Pssst.. Do something!
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» RE: Good, but not complete
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: common intelligence on Nov 8, 2008 6:27 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Blessed are the humblest that realize their true self worth and are not shaken by circumstances out of thier hands. Living simply is a blessing......if you can afford it!"
It is understandable when people are short on funds to be able to afford better or functional things and possessions. But personal cleanliness is not. At least not all the time.
The worse thing anyone without, or that looses what they have (had), can do is feel shame and blame themselves. This is because this world was not created by them that overwhelms them with never ending rungs on ladders that can not be climbed.
The suppressing thing those that have do to those that appear to have not is connect with their humanKINDness.
My biggest peav is with those that constantly call for "support the troops" all well they drive by ignoring a veteran asking for a with a hand out, that are from previous wars still suffering and living lives of indignation. It's as if those that ignore them have a line in thesand or prejudice of which vets are worth supporting.
Now that the nation is being dealt cards from the bottom of the deck by a corrupt economic system and a model of economics "they" are seemingly trying to keep alive (at all cost, to you and me) to hide the pillaging of all classes but the 1% in the theives den.
Trickle down is the scurge theory of this economic model that "they" refuse to dispens with. People are worn out working more and more and more to climb out of the pit of evil economic burdens that continually fall on those at the bottom of the "latter to success".
We can not and will not tread the tidal waters out of the coming depression without ripping some new assholes this time.
The economics of this country, and the world, would flourish and grow dramatically if only the people where dealt out the cash for homes health and medical care and retirements.
But by time the trillions given to banks and that 1% triclke down to US we will all be lead into another world war.
It's a grand idea to feel directing cash though an infrastucture rebuild boom would get the country back on track. But Amercans are beat and don't want to ignite any fireballs in their bellies for the hope of a better economy if health care, medical care, retirement, and having a home, if they have an unfathomable tax burden to carry on top of their backs too.
The key word here is Unfathomable.
Americans have been reemed to the bone and even generations not born yet. THIS is why the stilulas packages will not fix the economy.
The debt can not simply be payed off with more debt. What in hell is so hard to understand that? ...at any IQ level?
IT's a big lie, a cover up.
I don't know about you but I'm getting older too and worked my life to one step out of the grave now and I simple can't bear it all over again. Oh, and the banking system wants us to borrow our way to a better future? But now with no work or money flow, with now way to pay it back what are the odds?
"The truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there?" -V
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Posted by: textynn on Nov 9, 2008 6:54 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Step 1. Supposedly we are suppose to get our health care from our employers. Employers do not want to give employees health care and they know every trick in the book to avoid it. i.e., only offering part time jobs to everyone except a skeleton crew. Firing sick and pregnant employees for looking funny one day.And so forth.
Step 2. Once someone is really sick and can't work they, of course lose their health care if they had it. Then they must liquidate everything they every were able to have to pay for medical costs. Got a house,,,bye-bye. Got a piece of property. bye-bye. Got a little piece of stock or a savings account. Bye-bye.
Step 3. Everything you ever had will now go to the rich and you will leave your children nothing.
Since everyone gets sick eventually, slowly everything goes to the gatekeepers of health care.
DON'T BELIEVE THE HEALTH CARE LIE.
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Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com on Nov 13, 2008 10:14 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No woman should have to live in conditions like that. There must be a way to brighten their lives with the promise of a good job and access to affordable heatlh care for their children.
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Posted by: be2be on Nov 24, 2008 6:38 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The way this article refer to "most people" when they mean most of the people in this slice of demographic is annoying and unprofessional.
I am sure that the people she photographed did not feel the relevance of this election but the article gave the impression that the election didn't mean anything to most people - this is ridiculous. To quote uneducated people so that you can be alarmed by their ignorance of affairs outside their own daily cares should not be a revelation. Compare poor people from Troy with those from London to those from Rio and you will see parallels. Compare them to a good newspaper's readership and yes, you will see a huge disparity. Surprise.
Election Results
President - NY » Rensselaer County
99% precincts reporting
Obama 62% McCain 37%
People in Troy have been acutely interested in this election and have been for some time. That the author was able to find people who were not is not enough to claim that the city of Troy didn't "feel" this election.
During our last serious recession, in 1993 poverty was up to 21% in Troy. Troy, NY has 14.3% of the population under poverty level. By comparison New York City has 18.5% people under poverty level. The Bronx has a 28% poverty level according to Census statistics. Troy is like many other cities all across the United States (and for that matter, Britain) where the industries that gave birth to them no long exists. Troy is called the collar city. There were collar factories here that no longer exist. Many people left, and those left behind didn't have the means or the will to, remained. This is not unique to Troy either. Crime in Troy is almost at half of what it was in 1992.
To give you perspective, "London has the highest proportion of children living in income poverty (after housing costs have been met) of any region or country in Great Britain." In 2006, 26% of London's children lived in homes with no working adult. According to National Statistics, in "2004-5, 16% of the population in Great Britain lived in low income households". I also take issue with the way "single mother" is bandied about like it's a bad word and is synonymous with child neglect.
I know many, many good people who do a great deal of work to help people in need. Poverty is shocking, period. But Troy does not have a corner on the market.
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Posted by: billjv on Nov 4, 2008 4:28 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Until we can provide good jobs for workers with good pay and not let companies just walk out on their community commitments when it's convenient for them to do so, things aren't going to change. Corporations have been given a free pass to abandon the infrastructure that was built by these workers - these workers MADE these companies what they are!!! Yet they pull out of these towns leaving a vacuous wasteland of empty factories and warehouses, unemployed people with not much more than a high school education, and usually serious drug and alcohol problems due to the stress of living in a city with no jobs and no hope.
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» RE: This is America
Posted by: Romantic Violence
» RE: This is America
Posted by: NYCartist
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Posted by: Bushmaster on Nov 4, 2008 5:49 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Who will stand up for the poor in this society? If no one stands up for them will they be cut down?
This is an excellent article and photo essay. Thanks for publishing it.
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» RE: Amazing Photo Essay
Posted by: clvngodess
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Posted by: RedFoxOne on Nov 4, 2008 6:23 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Jiff
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» Obama is much better than McCain but
Posted by: wolfgangmo
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Posted by: waltermoss on Nov 4, 2008 6:28 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: sad but true
Posted by: liz_imp
» RE: sad but true
Posted by: maxfactor
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Nov 4, 2008 6:56 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: WALMART DESTROYED MAIN STREET
Posted by: Bittersham2
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Posted by: Allstar Cookie on Nov 4, 2008 7:39 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Personally, I don't blame anybody for doing that and I don't think a black voter needs to make excuses for doing that.
I put myself in the shoes of a minority......and it has to be a comforting feeling, maybe in symbolism only, that you have representation sitting in the most powerful position in the country.....a country that once enslaved you......denied your voice to vote....made you sit in the back of a bus......take water from a different source.
We can talk policies all you want....and as a Republican most of you will disagree with my views. But please, don't call me a racist because I'm NOT voting for Obama.
I think Obama is going to win........I certainly don't fear that and a hope he does a great job.
However, I don't think it's going to change the lives of our poorest, single moms right here in Western New York.....in New Orleans.....or anywhere else. There are too many other factors that lead people to poverty........much of it, certainly not all, is self-inflicted.
If Obama loses.....lets hope there isn't chaos in the streets because that will only set us back further......and if Obama wins, lets hope there isn't chaos in the streets.......because that too will set us back.
Now.....I'm going to vote.
Allstar Cookie
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» RE: bootstraps and all that
Posted by: WyrdSister
» RE: bootstraps and all that
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» RE: bootstraps and all that
Posted by: WyrdSister
» I won't call you a racist, but I will call you a classist.
Posted by: wolfgangmo
» RE: I won't call you a racist, but I will call you a classist.
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» RE: I won't call you a racist, but I will call you a classist.
Posted by: liz_imp
» Your union was which?
Posted by: billwald
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Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN on Nov 4, 2008 7:40 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I slept in other peoples' vehicles or wherever.
It's much different for me now.
Long ago I got fed up with the imperious assholes who tell everyone ELSE to 'just say no", etc.
I also see through those who say, "You can change if you want to."
those who say that have full pockets & a roof,etc.
The reality is that some truly CANNOT just say no or change if they want to.
Some people CAN change their lives.
Fortunately I'm one who was able to.
I don't see this as me being "better' than the others.
I see myself as fortunate to be in circumstances which gave me the knowledge of how and opportunity to change my life.
I did every sort of drug you can imagine, the worst drug being alcohol.
It's been 25+ years since I stopped using.
I've been told how 'strong' I am because of all that.
Well, I'm not so sure about that.
I'm pretty damn happy & greatful that things have worked out as they did.
I'm 69 now and have all that 'middle class" shit such as a house, a business, truck & car.
Big fucking deal. It does NOT make me better than anyone else who was in the life in which I was.
How the hell can someone get out of it when they're truly STUCK in the neighborhoods which actually contribute to it and steal away the chance to have a better life?
I'm also fortunate that I'm a white guy.
I rum a business which brings me into peoples' homes.
I know some of these people are ignorantly racist and wouldn't allow a black guy in, especially in the small city I'm in in WI.
Yes, the drug laws DO need to be changed.
However, too many people just plain don't give a fuck about the people trapped in this shit life.
They pont at them any say derogatory things about the homeless, the druggies, etc.
Yet, they REFUSE to look at the fact that THEY ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM.
Their imperious attitudes manifest themselves into boots to KJEEP these people down.
You can't imagine the neat conversations I have with some of the stepped on people when they know about my old life and that it's legit when I say, "I know, etc."
It's a built in fact of the human race that there will ALWAYS be the stepped on, the un-concerned and the steppers.
Just say hello to someone you wonder about sometime.
It makes a difference.
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» RE: I was one of them
Posted by: Katiii
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Posted by: karenyoung521 on Nov 4, 2008 8:13 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Alternet: One Of The Best, But Could Be Better JDFU!
Posted by: DaBear
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Posted by: Marshalldoc on Nov 4, 2008 8:18 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have to say, though, that after viewing the photos & reading the interview, I felt the same sense of hopelessness I saw in the eyes of the people in the photos.
Sigh...
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Posted by: cherylholmes on Nov 4, 2008 8:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: maxpayne on Nov 4, 2008 9:07 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Allstar Cookie on Nov 4, 2008 9:17 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Eight dollars an hour is better than sitting around playing video games all day.......or standing on street corners.
Bad jobs can lead to good jobs with the right attitude and work ethic.
You have to at least try........it's better than giving up.
Use birth control.....stay in school.....stay away from drugs....get into a trade.....college....military........and you'll have a chance.
Otherwise........you'll wind up like those in these photos.
Allstar Cookie
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» RE: Change comes from COMMUNITY...not the White House
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: Change comes from COMMUNITY...not the White House
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» RE: Change comes from COMMUNITY...not the White House
Posted by: liz_imp
» RE: Change comes from COMMUNITY...not the White House
Posted by: liz_imp
» RE: Change comes from COMMUNITY...not the White House
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Change comes from within...not the White House
Posted by: WyrdSister
» RE: Change comes from within...not the White House
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» RE: lifestyles
Posted by: WyrdSister
» RE: lifestyles
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» RE: nobody chooses to be born in poverty
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: nobody chooses to be born in poverty
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» RE: No...but what to do, what to do.....?
Posted by: Longdream
» RE: No...but what to do, what to do.....?
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» RE: No...but what to do, what to do.....?
Posted by: Longdream
» RE: No...but what to do, what to do.....?
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» RE: Yeah, laugh it up. You are SO flip and clever, I should be impressed
Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Yeah, laugh it up. You are SO flip and clever, I should be impressed
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» RE: Change comes from within...not the White House
Posted by: Bittersham2
» what a Loser: you think everyone has the tools they need, right?
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN
» RE: what a Loser: you think everyone has the tools they need, right?
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
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Posted by: billwald on Nov 4, 2008 10:49 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The death of shame hasn't changed the economics of human activity. Except in society where humans are a state asset, there is no system in which a single working class parent will not be on the bottom of the economic food chain because there are economic efficiencies produced by two adults working together.
Even in the construction trade two people working together are more efficient that two people working alone. Why? Think "Heavy lifting."
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» RE: This is a new phenomenon caused by the death of shame
Posted by: liz_imp
» RE: This is a new phenomenon caused by the death of shame
Posted by: liz_imp
» RE: This is a new phenomenon caused by the death of shame
Posted by: kegbot1
» RE: This is a new phenomenon caused by the death of shame
Posted by: Pissed Off Woman
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Posted by: writerman on Nov 4, 2008 11:00 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Over the last thirty years the gap between the rich and the poor has been increasing and the position of the poor, working or not, the decline has been speeding up.
What's tragic is the collosal waste of human potential and the moral degeneracy in society that seems to have washed its hands of millions of people, who have been relegated to the status of virtual slaves. And what of the children? Surely they deserve better? How can we turn our backs on them and consign them to the garbage dump?
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» RE: Not Just in America
Posted by: amerijake
» RE: Not Just in America
Posted by: liz_imp
» RE: Not Just in America
Posted by: liz_imp
» RE: Not Just in America
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: tmwright on Nov 6, 2008 6:33 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most Trojans are employed in government (Troy is 15 minutes North of the capital in Albany), in education (RPI and Russell Sage are located within the City, or in the growing arts and antiques district.
Troy is rapidily becomming a city of haves and have nots as more well heeled empty nesters move into the the Victorian townhouses that populate the downtown district and push the poor to the outer areas of the city.
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» This is why I like sites with posted comments.
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: The narrative falls short -- there is no prison inustry in Troy
Posted by: Bittersham2
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Posted by: edgeofnowhere on Nov 8, 2008 8:27 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Faces of the "free market"
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: Longdream on Nov 8, 2008 10:19 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't think people really look at poor folks, anyway. Not people like us, who think nothing of spending three bucks for a cup of coffee. These are folks who CAN'T spend three bucks for coffee, and probably can't spend three bucks for lunch, if they smoke. They're all pretty slender, so my guess is that they do. Has anyone checked out what cigarettes cost, lately?
The devil is in the details, my friends, my fellow Americans, my base, my homies, my buds.
Bootstraps? Boots? Let's cut the metaphors, shall we?
How do you learn reading as a habit when your parent doesn't read well, and there are no books in your home, and you never see her reading? She can't help with your schoolwork much, because she doesn't know the answers. You don't do so well in school, and you don't know anyone who's going to college. You can't go many places because you don't have a car, and the town's small so not so much transportation. You got pregnant when you were sixteen, and now your fourteen-year-old daughter is going with a boy. And you don't even know that not everyone thinks or feels or does things this way.
Details, details.
Go ahead. Pull out of that, if you can. Use whatever straps you can find.
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Posted by: daniel1982 on Nov 8, 2008 2:27 PM
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» RE: Am I the only one that thought ..
Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Am I the only one that thought ..
Posted by: daniel1982
» RE: Very good observations.
Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Very good observations.
Posted by: daniel1982
» RE: Whatever.
Posted by: Longdream
» You're forgetting about the emotional component
Posted by: Pissed Off Woman
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Posted by: gigantor21 on Nov 8, 2008 3:59 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From a nihilistic, pure politics standpoint, it makes perfect sense. The middle and upper class outnumber the poor by at least 5 to 1: those making more than $30,000 outnumber those below by about 3 to 1. Those above that threshold are far more likely to participate in the political process, and have more money to give to the campaigns, the media outlets reporting on them, and the corporations that funnel tons of money into both. In this day and age, the poor and disadvantaged are only good for tax breaks and brownie points with your constituents/customers.
Of course, it's complete bullshit to hew to those impulses--but it's the only way to fly for most politicians. I don't see that changing anytime soon.
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» 40 years ago, poverty was a political issue we were facing.
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: 40 years ago, poverty was a political issue we were facing.
Posted by: gigantor21
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Posted by: hilly7 on Nov 8, 2008 5:39 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We are crashing and even though McCain was far from the answer, Obama isn't it either, at this point there isn't one. I was excited that Obama won right up until I saw his cabinet, but I'm sure that the IMF and World Bank, the corporations and the wealthy were.
Thank you for semi waking up the people that say they are optimistic with a realistic view of the near the bottom. Want to see the poor in 6 months? Look into the mirror if your middle class. Want to see the poor of today in 6 months...they will not be here.
Right now, GM and Ford say they are going broke, but whatever you do, don't look at the 3 million dollar plant that GM is building in Russia, or the overtime Ford is being sued over not paying, in Russia. The taxpayer is about to help them help them, not us, but at our expense. Just like they did foreign governments with the Wall Street bail-out.
Then, like Venezuela and Iceland, we will file bankruptcy, and only then does the show begin. Pssst.. Do something!
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» Venezuela & Iceland have POWER FOR THE PEOPLE
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN
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Posted by: hilly7 on Nov 8, 2008 5:39 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We are crashing and even though McCain was far from the answer, Obama isn't it either, at this point there isn't one. I was excited that Obama won right up until I saw his cabinet, but I'm sure that the IMF and World Bank, the corporations and the wealthy were.
Thank you for semi waking up the people that say they are optimistic with a realistic view of the near the bottom. Want to see the poor in 6 months? Look into the mirror if your middle class. Want to see the poor of today in 6 months...they will not be here.
Right now, GM and Ford say they are going broke, but whatever you do, don't look at the 3 million dollar plant that GM is building in Russia, or the overtime Ford is being sued over not paying, in Russia. The taxpayer is about to help them help them, not us, but at our expense. Just like they did foreign governments with the Wall Street bail-out.
Then, like Venezuela and Iceland, we will file bankruptcy, and only then does the show begin. Pssst.. Do something!
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» RE: Good, but not complete
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: common intelligence on Nov 8, 2008 6:27 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Blessed are the humblest that realize their true self worth and are not shaken by circumstances out of thier hands. Living simply is a blessing......if you can afford it!"
It is understandable when people are short on funds to be able to afford better or functional things and possessions. But personal cleanliness is not. At least not all the time.
The worse thing anyone without, or that looses what they have (had), can do is feel shame and blame themselves. This is because this world was not created by them that overwhelms them with never ending rungs on ladders that can not be climbed.
The suppressing thing those that have do to those that appear to have not is connect with their humanKINDness.
My biggest peav is with those that constantly call for "support the troops" all well they drive by ignoring a veteran asking for a with a hand out, that are from previous wars still suffering and living lives of indignation. It's as if those that ignore them have a line in thesand or prejudice of which vets are worth supporting.
Now that the nation is being dealt cards from the bottom of the deck by a corrupt economic system and a model of economics "they" are seemingly trying to keep alive (at all cost, to you and me) to hide the pillaging of all classes but the 1% in the theives den.
Trickle down is the scurge theory of this economic model that "they" refuse to dispens with. People are worn out working more and more and more to climb out of the pit of evil economic burdens that continually fall on those at the bottom of the "latter to success".
We can not and will not tread the tidal waters out of the coming depression without ripping some new assholes this time.
The economics of this country, and the world, would flourish and grow dramatically if only the people where dealt out the cash for homes health and medical care and retirements.
But by time the trillions given to banks and that 1% triclke down to US we will all be lead into another world war.
It's a grand idea to feel directing cash though an infrastucture rebuild boom would get the country back on track. But Amercans are beat and don't want to ignite any fireballs in their bellies for the hope of a better economy if health care, medical care, retirement, and having a home, if they have an unfathomable tax burden to carry on top of their backs too.
The key word here is Unfathomable.
Americans have been reemed to the bone and even generations not born yet. THIS is why the stilulas packages will not fix the economy.
The debt can not simply be payed off with more debt. What in hell is so hard to understand that? ...at any IQ level?
IT's a big lie, a cover up.
I don't know about you but I'm getting older too and worked my life to one step out of the grave now and I simple can't bear it all over again. Oh, and the banking system wants us to borrow our way to a better future? But now with no work or money flow, with now way to pay it back what are the odds?
"The truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there?" -V
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Posted by: textynn on Nov 9, 2008 6:54 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Step 1. Supposedly we are suppose to get our health care from our employers. Employers do not want to give employees health care and they know every trick in the book to avoid it. i.e., only offering part time jobs to everyone except a skeleton crew. Firing sick and pregnant employees for looking funny one day.And so forth.
Step 2. Once someone is really sick and can't work they, of course lose their health care if they had it. Then they must liquidate everything they every were able to have to pay for medical costs. Got a house,,,bye-bye. Got a piece of property. bye-bye. Got a little piece of stock or a savings account. Bye-bye.
Step 3. Everything you ever had will now go to the rich and you will leave your children nothing.
Since everyone gets sick eventually, slowly everything goes to the gatekeepers of health care.
DON'T BELIEVE THE HEALTH CARE LIE.
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Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com on Nov 13, 2008 10:14 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No woman should have to live in conditions like that. There must be a way to brighten their lives with the promise of a good job and access to affordable heatlh care for their children.
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Posted by: be2be on Nov 24, 2008 6:38 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The way this article refer to "most people" when they mean most of the people in this slice of demographic is annoying and unprofessional.
I am sure that the people she photographed did not feel the relevance of this election but the article gave the impression that the election didn't mean anything to most people - this is ridiculous. To quote uneducated people so that you can be alarmed by their ignorance of affairs outside their own daily cares should not be a revelation. Compare poor people from Troy with those from London to those from Rio and you will see parallels. Compare them to a good newspaper's readership and yes, you will see a huge disparity. Surprise.
Election Results
President - NY » Rensselaer County
99% precincts reporting
Obama 62% McCain 37%
People in Troy have been acutely interested in this election and have been for some time. That the author was able to find people who were not is not enough to claim that the city of Troy didn't "feel" this election.
During our last serious recession, in 1993 poverty was up to 21% in Troy. Troy, NY has 14.3% of the population under poverty level. By comparison New York City has 18.5% people under poverty level. The Bronx has a 28% poverty level according to Census statistics. Troy is like many other cities all across the United States (and for that matter, Britain) where the industries that gave birth to them no long exists. Troy is called the collar city. There were collar factories here that no longer exist. Many people left, and those left behind didn't have the means or the will to, remained. This is not unique to Troy either. Crime in Troy is almost at half of what it was in 1992.
To give you perspective, "London has the highest proportion of children living in income poverty (after housing costs have been met) of any region or country in Great Britain." In 2006, 26% of London's children lived in homes with no working adult. According to National Statistics, in "2004-5, 16% of the population in Great Britain lived in low income households". I also take issue with the way "single mother" is bandied about like it's a bad word and is synonymous with child neglect.
I know many, many good people who do a great deal of work to help people in need. Poverty is shocking, period. But Troy does not have a corner on the market.
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