Home
Archive
Columnists
Video
Blogs
Discuss
About
Search
Donate
Advertise
100 words for 100 days: submit your 100 word essay and get published on AlterNet
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
Register to Vote: Rock the Vote, powered by Working Assets Wireless
Advertisement
  • AlterNetYour turn

Support AlterNet
Do you value the information you're getting from AlterNet? Please show your support with a tax-deductible donation.


Feedback
Tell us how we're doing.

Advertisement
Advertisement

If We Get Through This Crisis, We'll Face Another in 5 to 10 Years -- Here's Why

By Joshua Holland, AlterNet. Posted October 7, 2008.


You don't need a crystal ball -- history is repeating itself.

Share and save this post:
Digg iconDelicious iconReddit iconFark iconYahoo! iconNewsvine! iconFacebook iconNewsTrust icon

More stories by Joshua Holland

Get AlterNet in
your mailbox!

 
Advertisement

If the bailout passed last week were to have the desired outcome, kick-starting our ailing economy -- and there's no reason to believe it will -- we can expect another painful economic crisis in five to 10 years. It may not be an American crisis, and it might get less attention for that reason, but it will happen.

In the meantime, an enormous bubble of paper wealth will grow -- nobody can say in what sector or which region it will occur -- and some people who get out at the right time will make fortunes. But many more will lose their shirts when it all comes crashing down, and crash down it will.

You don't need prescience to predict this with confidence; those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. We haven't learned a thing from recent history -- it would threaten our underlying economic culture to do so -- so we'll repeat it all over again. Five to 10 years -- mark my words.

In the late 1980s and early 1990s, a huge asset bubble grew up in Asia, as "hot money" -- foreign investment looking to cash in on higher interest rates in those emerging markets -- flooded the region. Japanese housing prices flew through the roof, totally unmoored from the laws of supply and demand. Countries like Thailand, Malaysia, Singapore and South Korea saw growth rates of up to 12 percent, but it wasn't real growth; as Paul Krugman noted in 1994, it was the effect of tons of new capital flowing in, not real increases in productivity, that created what was then known as the "Asian miracle." When it all came crashing down in 1997 -- the "Asian Financial Crisis" -- trillions of dollars in paper wealth were wiped out and poverty rates spiraled.

Between 1995 and 2000, tech stocks were the Next Big Thing -- the way to get rich in a heartbeat. By the end of the 1990s, the bubble was mammoth, and again, prices of IT stocks had little connection to the sector's earnings. When the bubble burst, $7 trillion in paper wealth evaporated.

Similar (but not identical) crises have popped up in countries like Argentina, Sweden and Ecuador over the past two decades.

Now we're facing the consequences of trillions of dollars in overvalued assets in the American real estate market, and we have no idea yet just how much pain that bubble's deflation will ultimately bring to the global economy.

During the past few weeks, America's economic and political elites have been running around like the house is on fire, and after quite a bit of arm-twisting, they passed a mammoth banking bailout in an attempt to stave off a complete crash. But nobody dares discuss why this cycle of growing and popping bubbles continues to happen. There's been some discussion of deregulation, but the simple fact that this pattern is caused by imbalances inherent in our global economic structure has been completely obscured in our mainstream economic discourse.

Only by understanding that some fundamental economic changes that have occurred since the early 1970s have created this cycle of boom and bust can we even hope to prevent the next crisis.

Consider how the following factors play into the investor class's repeated fits of "irrational exuberance":

  • A long-term movement of "corporate globalization," beginning in the 1970s and accelerating through the 1990s, created a global economy in which the wealthy world held onto high-value "core" functions, and farmed out a great deal of nuts-and-bolts manufacturing to the developing world. The problem is that only a handful of people are able to earn a good living from those high-value activities, and the wages of working majorities in wealthy countries have stagnated (more so in the United States than in the social democracies where unions still have some clout). This has led to rising income inequality in the advanced economies.
  • The share of the world's income pulled in by a small elite has grown dramatically, while their share of the tax burden has declined, and those at the top of the economic pile now have more money than they know what to do with. At the same time, global inequality has risen as well, meaning that there's still a huge portion of the world's population that doesn't have the means to be "good consumers."
  • That has led to a "crisis of overproduction," with the world now awash in goods -- from microchips to steel to automobiles -- and not enough consumers to absorb all this stuff.

Digg!

See more stories tagged with: capitalism, financial crisis

Joshua Holland is an AlterNet staff writer.

Liked this story? Get top stories in your inbox each week from AlterNet! Sign up now »

Advertisement
Advertisement

 

Comments Turn comments off sitewide Give us feedback »
Comments closed.
The comments for this story have been closed. Thank you to everyone who participated.
View:
Thanks for ruining me day, Joshua!
Posted by: NoMcCainPalin on Oct 7, 2008 1:15 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
More seriously, your alarming article should get widespread attention. The American people need to know how dangerious is their future, despite what the bullshit artists in Washington say.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Loyalty to the American dollar is not loyalty to America.
Posted by: nihilozero on Oct 7, 2008 1:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's possible that, amongst other factors, some people may withdraw from American investments out of spite and/or as a punishment. Why should anyone feel comfortable about holding American dollars or being invested in American businesses right now anyway? It's one thing when they are providing returns, but without that... international capitalist loyalty or solidarity is, almost by definition, shallow and fleeting.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The Next Bubble won't be in America ...
Posted by: mmckinl on Oct 7, 2008 1:40 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The American economy has been thoroughly bled.

There is not s sector left to begin a bubble ... Stocks, bonds, real estate, finance, insurance ... all, already looted ... while our debt to GDP is over 350% ...

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Bubbles aren't necessarily regional Posted by: Joshua Holland
jump you bastards, jump
Posted by: blogoffanddie on Oct 7, 2008 3:55 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The market is in difficulty due to the corrupt and shamefully shoddy business practices of bankers, financiers and, of course the obnoxious greed the stock market naturally cultivates in investors. It’s not really a money problem, it’s a problem of ethical and honest brokering.

http://blogoffanddie.wordpress.com
http://theimpolitecanadian.wordpress.com/

Brother can you spare $700 Billion?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Will the next bubble be green?
Posted by: kegbot1 on Oct 7, 2008 4:59 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is what I'm hearing in some quarters that the whole 'green' movement will now attract the attention (and I think it's starting already) of the usual crowd of wise guys who will begin selling speculative investments in everything from carbon credits to solar panel manufacturing. Everyone get on the Big Green Money Train!

Back to another part of Holland's analysis, the biggest problem I see may be an intractable one - when the capitalist class can buy democratically elected legislatures wholesale, how can you hope to stop these boom-bust cycles? I'm surprised, in retrospect, that Glass-Steagall wasn't killed off earlier, say in Reagan's time. This activity has to be regulated but even the most carefully crafted laws can be completely undone by a majority vote of legislators who are bought off in campaign cash.

http://badamerican.wordpress.com/

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Happy to expand Posted by: NthnBrazil
» Absolutely agree Posted by: NthnBrazil
Funny
Posted by: RedFoxOne on Oct 7, 2008 5:40 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of course it wont. Do you really think ANY of that TRILLION dollar "bail out" will make it back to Main Street America? I assure you it wont. The bottom feeders of Wall Street and other large corporations will suck that money up like a sponge, and we'll still be suffering. Way to go Dictator Bush, way to go!

Jiff
Online pRivacy when it Counts

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Funny Posted by: jack alexander
The american economy is the victim of a leveraged buyout
Posted by: Farasien on Oct 7, 2008 5:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To those of you who don't know how these things work, a mega-rich investor or group of investors approach a company using borrowed money and buy it. They reduce the 'costs' of that company by reducing headcount, reducing or eliminating employee benefits, sell off underperforming areas of the company, etc. They then borrow money from someone else, tack the debt onto the already hurting company (and its employees)using the company as collateral and pocket the payout. Then, they usually sell the company to some other sucker or take it public, essentially selling it to the sharks on Wall street. In the end, the company will be gutted, under-staffed, non-competitive in compensation packages and usually run by a crony of the original buyer. Take a look at the USA folks- THAT is what happened here.

The real problem here is that the ultra-rich have had a huge mountain of money they are looking to double or triple in 'value'. These corporate raiders are moving this mountain of cash from one place to another, increasing its value over time- and they don't give a damn who it hurts to do it. Like the article above said, the bubble/crashes started in Asia, then moved into tech, then into real estate, commodities, insurance, bonds, etc. The issues we are facing will continue as long as we allow the bastards who own this mountain of cash to continue using it like this-or own it at all. If we really wanted to fix the problem, that mountain of money should be confiscated by the respective governments (and people) it is harming, split up and used to improve worldwide conditions as a whole for people. This means rebuilding world-wide infrastructure (the USA isn't the only one crumbling, folks), reworking world government structures, eliminating currently used globalistic business models and reworking the world economy with all people-not the mega rich- as the central aspect.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Workers of the world: Unite
Posted by: MeyravLevine on Oct 7, 2008 6:17 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is time to free your mind from the dogma of nationality.

It is time to break free from the shackles of patriotism.

You have more in common with the poor peasants and factory workers in the 3rd world than with the politicians safeguarding the interests of the ruling elites.

Wake up!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Workers of the world: Unite? Posted by: Last Chance
Don't Wait Another 5 to 10 years.
Posted by: Last Chance on Oct 7, 2008 6:58 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's time for peaceful action now. The first step is get together with friends and family to acquire a parcel of land upon which to grow your own food, so when the money runs out you won't starve.

The next step is to help other people do the same and form a network of self-reliant communities that grow their own food, build their own shelter, sew their own clothes, plan their own families, home school their own children and carefully surround themselves with miles of healthy wilderness.

Nobody can be forced to do this. To work, it must be voluntary, but dire circumstances make it increasingly obvious that friendly cooperation is needed for survival.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» That kind of insult Posted by: Last Chance
All Dressed Up and No Where to Go
Posted by: FSadley on Oct 7, 2008 7:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This investment game has gone too far. Investing money in new companies, and hoping they succeed, and making a reasonable profit when they do is what (I think) the market is for. But these skeems that have taken over the market today are such fluff, with nothing to hold it up. With fewer and fewer people benefiting from it. I agree with the author, we have been great at making things, but not great at getting people the income they need to buy them. We shouldn't depend on the people who got us into this mess to get us out. Why not give the money directly to the people themselves, to pay off their mortgages, and buy some of the luxuries out there? Why not end the 40 hour work week and give people more time (with an equitable income) to enjoy the life we have, to travel and meet more people. I'm not talking about guaranteeing an income, but paying people enough to live. This is all there is, you can't take anything with you when you die. I just don't understand the need to accumulate so much money that you are totally out of touch with 90% of the world. Yes, rich people do a lot for poor people, but no one likes taking charity. People are happy to be able to take care of themselves and loved ones, and have some free time to relax. I think the world would be a much safer place if we tried to organize things so that everyone could participate. Sadly I will not live to see rationality prevail, I'm sure.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Too Much Sense
Posted by: Liberty G on Oct 7, 2008 7:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is encouraging to read comments that are realistic and practical. I wish I had any real belief that the current "powers that be" will hear and heed such good advice.

The person who wrote about setting up sustainable communities in the wilderness had a good point, though a bit too extreme in the remedy. Smaller efforts at consumer independence and sustainability can, if pursued by many, make a big difference. There are, for example, a lot of small scale alternative energy solutions available - or on the way - for homeowners. And the local foods movement is in full swing.

There lies most of whatever hope I have.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Too Much Sense Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: Too Much Sense Posted by: HoboHomo
There was no Need
Posted by: websmith on Oct 7, 2008 8:00 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This problem is as bad as it is because the entire bubble was created by the Fed without the existence of any true demand in the market place. Legislation was passed in an attempt to sustain the bubble, which only made things worse.

The people who are benefiting are the same ones who grew bigger in the wake of the 1907 Panic and the Great Depression and they are all shareholders in the Fed.

http://ewebsmith.com/finance/thecause.html

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Taxing the Rich
Posted by: westomoon on Oct 7, 2008 8:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Great piece!

It did not mention one simple, basic option for controlling the speculative activities of super-wealth -- restoring the graduated tax. High tax rates on high incomes have a long international history of creating greater overall prosperity. If you're only going to net 5% of profits you make on investments, investing in risky, high-return instruments becomes much less attractive, and investing in the real economy becomes a more appealing option.

And let's not forget the capital gains tax rate. I honestly didn't realize til last year how low it had gotten. Remember Warren Buffet pointing out that he actually pays taxes at a lower rate than his secretary? When the Congress took up the question of whether hedge-fund managers should pay income tax on their collossal incomes, not the 15% capital-gains rate they were being charged, the big argument against it -- just a year ago -- was that the tax rate I'm charged would "discourage risk-taking".

Since insane risk-taking is exactly what we need to discourage, seems like a no-brainer to me -- we need lots more taxes on wealth, especially on unearned income.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Taxing the Rich Posted by: QuestionAuthority
» RE: Taxing the Rich Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: Taxing the Rich Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: Taxing the Rich Posted by: Cybershaman
Chasing the "almighty $$$'s"......
Posted by: Spiritgirl on Oct 7, 2008 8:37 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There was a time that people invested their money for the long term, say 20 to 30 years. Those days along with people's attention spans are gone. Now everyone wants to get rich quick, everyone wants to turn one buck into 50 as quickly as possible. Americans have been programmed (due to marketing) into the next big thing, having what the Jones have but newer and better, mass consumerism!

Well, it has now played us, yet as Americans we refuse to believe that it's us - it's the little lies that we tell our selves to make us feel better! What we need before any knee jerk reactions start, is to have a national conversation about our economy, and where we should be going! Along with the long term view of how we as a country should get there! This is too important for those that continue to push "free market" economics to have the lone voice!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

WE'VE BEEN HERE BEFORE
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Oct 7, 2008 8:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Problem is, it all happened before most of us were born. We are all characters in the play but without any rehearsal. And so we flounder. Looking to place blame. The people at fault are all just fine and still very rich. Our leaders simply don't care. They too are just fine. We get to watch the smug basta---s on television wishing they had done things differently, but still walking away with countless millions of dollars. It's written into their contracts. A guaranteed amount of money regardless of their reason for leaving as long as they're not convicted of a crime. That smarts. On one hand we're informed but that doesn't pay the bills. Informed is the one privilege that previous generations didn't have. We have access to everyone and everything. I can't think of a better way to stay on top of things and make sure that our leaders don't have a days's peace until all Ameicans are living an acceptable lifestyle. It's not too much to ask. ANNA

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Joshua, Good Assessment of the Situation!
Posted by: djnoll on Oct 7, 2008 10:09 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have contended for years that there would be a perfect storm of oil depletion, baby boomer 401K withdrawals, and a failing economy in about 10 years, but thanks to the BushCo policies that storm has been accelerated by about 8 years!

There is a silver lining in all this though: It will force us to take pro-active action on a local and personal level. There are simply only a few things you can do, but you can try them for yourself: payoff and cut up your credit and debit cards - use cash and checks for bill paying; keep only a few days of expense money in cash on you in case your bank closes to carry you over while they audit the books and cover the deposits; if you have stocks, call your stockbroker and do not sell off completely, rather transfer into stocks that are stable or in green industries that seem to be more acceptable into the future. These things can help to stabilize the stock market, give companies much needed capital, and keep the banks stable.

On a community level, go to your banks and credit unions, ask them to form collaborations on a community level, branch-to-branch system that would function only on the local level, like the Gameen Bank did originally. Have them voluntarily work together to re-write mortgages so that principles are secured as 30 year fixed at the original lowest rate, rolling over missed payments into the principle. This will help to locally stabilize credit lines between branches. Have them work together, sharing personnel if necessary to help with the work load, and go out into local businesses that need lines of credit and help them streamline their financial pictures to make them more secure and then establish lines of credit, using short-term inter-branch loans to stable companies, and then follow-up regularly to insure that the companies are working well with their new financial plans.

These are pro-active things that can be done in our communities to help preserve our communities in a time of gross instability. My great-grandmother, nearly a century ago, gathered together her lady friends and they formed an investment club. When the group broke up, they split the pot evenly among the members. My mother is now living on the portion given to her grandmother, and living quite well, and that is after two world wars, the Great Depression, and all the bubbles of the last 100 years. There is no reason that groups of families could not form investment clubs, but rather than invest in stocks (or only investing in green stocks), they could arrange to invest in small, local businesses, in the form of small loans to meet cash flow needs, with a guaranteed rate of return. It was done in the past and it helped to build this nation, so there is no reason we cannot do this now if we have to. Helping our neighbors and supporting our local businesses is the way the country was built before mega-banks and corporate politics.

So, Joshua, We the People have the ability to address this crisis even as it gets worse, but only if we stop looking to the Feds for the answers. We need to encourage self-reliance not only for ourselves, but for our communities. It is time to appeal to our better selves once again, because if you allow ourselves to sink to the lowest levels of our nation's leaders, we will definitely not survive this crisis or the ones to come.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Is capitalism collapsing?
Posted by: practical idealist on Oct 7, 2008 11:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Perhaps. But the thing about democracy it's always coming up new ideas that meet the challenges that history presents. Check out on the internet "Can Sustainable Cities Save The Planet?"

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE:capitalism is not democracy Posted by: avatar_singh
At This Time, I'd Like To Give A Big Fat "THANK YOU"....
Posted by: Animal on Oct 7, 2008 11:48 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To everyone who thought that keeping gays from marrying was more important than keeping our economy and our country strong, healthy, and viable. Good work, the neocons, fascists, globalists, corporatists, and robber barons couldn't have done it without you!!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Things Will Always Get Better?
Posted by: FoonTheElder on Oct 7, 2008 12:22 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The American assumption that things will always get better is about to be dealt a heavy blow. A society that prospers on consumer goods cannot afford to wage a class war on the people who it needs to survive. That is exactly what has happened in the U.S. A country whose growing industries are military corporate welfare, importing goods made with cheap labor and unneeded services is not a base for continued economic stability.

The U.S. government has let the U.S. be the dumping grounds for cheap goods and labor in exchange for military and political influence throughout the rest of the world. What has that trade off given the average American? Absolutely nothing!

The Reagan Revolution just allowed the people at the top the ability to increase their profits while cutting quality jobs. You can get away with layoffs and wage cuts for awhile, but when it reaches the critical mass, who is going to buy your goods and services at any price?

Now when the clowns at the top have ruined the mess they created and they receive more corporate government welfare to continue on as normal. It just shows that our government still doesn't understand what happened and needs to be done.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

that is why may be depression would be good for america and the world.
Posted by: avatar_singh on Oct 7, 2008 5:25 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
afterall japanese have been living with such a proplonged recessi9on for last 17 years despite producing so much of industrail goods while parasite england has been looting russiana nd arab money to create stolen wealth in its own dirty shore.

this is what I wrote in one stock market down turn years ago--..

August 2002



It really is funny when the english media start telling to all and sundry that while it may be that U.S. has some reason to lose shares in the stock market and while the rest of world has lost stock market for so long it is some special god given right of london stock market not to fall or atleast not to fall as others have. Why?thses english propagandist who have been champion of globalization and have told others country that evrything in one country affects other country(though not aparently england even if england produces nothing of sort and her so called service industry is run by constipated looking arse faced low lif salesman and women), ; these people are now saying that england's accounting system and stock market is different than americas. Till other days they have been telling that their system is best because it is very much like american system.
Whole thing smacks of rats(in this case british) leaving the ship(america) when the rats fear of ship sinking.After it ion the strenght of american power that this thrid rate country called england has had such a boom time while the real industrial giants like japan and Germany have been in recession for years(no globalizatio effect there).In fact poplke should throw their economic book ab=nd theory and examine how a thrid rate country like england has nbeen able to survuive let alone propsper.ofcourse the english were fisrt to glee when they initaited downfall of japanese and far east market-no advice at that time to put money into equity as good value as they talk of in their case now. The english spies in form of jopurnalist put a lot (billion) of false paper money into Soviet russia during may-december 1900 to bankrupt soviets. ofcourse the englsh have been trying to thwart Euro for a long time-only when they are successful then they think of joining eueo-in fact europe should not allow britian to join euro.Also english media and govt. have been indulging in industrial sabotage of european countries thru the anglosaxon network of satellite and net , telephone spying and tapping-even E.U. rightly had complained about it-it was hushed just as it was in case of money laundering by british through their so called tax heaven off shore islands.
In fact for last 20 years and more so in last 15 years the english have shown their true clour-after cold war it is clear that the impotent english have been trying to piggy back pon american strength(americans in majority are not anglosaxons)and thru america england treis to bully other nations-install dictators their and then those dictators without peoples supprt are asked to bring the money to england and buy house in london-that creates housing boom and this nation of plumbers(graduation from pirates to shopkeepers then plumbers now) feels very happy with inflated house prices and low qulaity housing and infrastructrue-the money from abroad comes to london stock exchange and fuels the stock price. The london stock price should be forced to be lowered to one fourth of its present price becasue the rest is all false pumped up price with no real value. wht does england produce that any country would want? the real indutrial nations of the worls -Japan, germany have been in recesssion for last 10years while this england has been booming after gulf war for no reason other than becasue it falsley persuaded other countries and their dicataors to bring money to london and starve the rest of worrld. For God' sake the english plumber does not even eat healthy food.--atleast not non infected.england -which has preached globalization

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

A global FASCIST ECONOMY is the CORE ISSUE
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on Oct 7, 2008 5:54 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not the usual list of downstream symptoms (boom-bust bubbles, "overproduction", etc, etc) presented in this article.

At the heart of ruling class darkness is a system of privately owned and run Fascist banks that print worthless fiat scrip out of thin air and charge the human race interest on it. A freeloading and cozy corporate crime privilege that is defended tooth and nail. The worst offenders in this are the "Federal Reserve" Corp (not "federal", with less than ZERO "reserves") the Bank of England and the Bank for International Settlements.

The "Federal Reserve" sham basically works like this: The government granted its power to create money to “FED” banks. The “FED” creates money out of thin air, then loans it back to the government [ i.e. the people ] charging interest. The government levies income taxes to pay the interest on the debt.

A nation ruled under the monopoly of parasite Organized Corporate Crime Fascism cannot survive and was not meant to. At least not for the rank and file. There are few things more important to realize.

(Oh, and whatever you may think of "capitalism" by definition it DID NOT EXIST even when Karl Marx coined the word in the late 19th century Gilded Age ruled by monopoly robber barons that made sure competition and democracy necessary to said "capitalism" was virtually nonexistent)

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Economics is a subset of Ecology not the other way around
Posted by: leemiller38 on Oct 8, 2008 11:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We live on a planet raped of resources and where the rich are on a looting spree and the poor get children. What else is new?

The resource base for this global economy is crashing as forests, fish, soil disappear. Can we humans be far behind? It is likely a couple hundred years too late for a rational program to limit our numbers and hence avoid a population crash. Overbreeding produces the cheap labor for the rich to exploit. Maybe that is why Bush has cut family planning or maybe it was just stupidity and ideology.

The population explosion graph is a thin line on a geological time scale going straight up and it will likely go straight back done on an even shorter time scale. I didn't see any of this mentioned by Mr. Holland, but then I suspect his biological and ecological education was minimal. Energy flow is vital to the functioning of ecosystems. Cash flow seems to fill that role in human culture though food resources are still the basis for civilization. Not much food is available now on this planet without cash flow. I am poorly trained in economics, but I do sense like Mr. Holland that a bust is coming our way, but it has more to do with our numbers, collective greed and shortsightedness in the long run, than the manic manipulations of the rich of the world.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

There's a word for this.
Posted by: monkeywrench on Oct 9, 2008 12:22 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Being awash in capital, having more money than you know what to do with, and then looking around the world to find ways to make even MORE of it (usually on poor people's backs) goes by one word and one word only:

GREED!

(And, to all those "Good Christian" right-wingers out there who slavishly believe in the so-called "free market" and decry the "socialism" of caring for our fellow humans; let me remind you that greed was a serious biblical offense which carried a severe punishment.)

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

And we think thats all?
Posted by: hilly7 on Oct 9, 2008 6:11 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anybody look into the rest of the bill? This is a distraction, of course, its a good one. While Congress actually support the people's voice on the No vote, The Great Lakes was privitized. Apparently the government thinks that we the people can't manage our water supplies, and while that is probably true, think corporations do better? Just one of their CFL bulbs can contaninate 6,000 gallons of water! Whats in your house.

A bridgade of our own soldiers were called out of Iraq, good thing except they will be serving here, against America citizens. Then again the Air Force back at the first of the year called in some of their people from FL, to serve their country in DC.

The money not only went to the sharks on Wall Street, but the larger parts to China, Russia, and Dubai... biggest winners. Do people actually think the bill was passed to save homes from foreclosure?

This somehow saves the stock market? Well that certainly worked now didn't it. Everybody that believed that line should by now be awake, if not, line up for the consentration camp in a single file, shit, we've cooperated good so far why change.

As for the dollar, well kiss it good-bye. Not really, we will have to first endure Africa's fate a few years.

This isn't the small banks, when we take money from the small banks they fail, then they are eaten by larger ones who get eaten by the real preditor, the world banks. The only country I know of right off bat is Russia that doesn't owe the bastards, and that is about to change. Think this is about just your dollar, think twice, research who owns the oil fields in the middleeast or the Amazon Basin, to name a few.

Personally I took my CDs, etc, out in January and as they matured, I done ok. My wife is about to get bitch slapped on her 401k when she pulls it out, but like me, I quit investing. We may end out slaves but I'll be damned if I'll pay for my own enslavement! Contained in this message are the key stocks if one wants to return a profit in time. But this would be financing the ones who wish to own us, so I quit investing. We have only ourselves to blame for our greed.

I hope I'm wrong but what will be here quicker than a year will be a depression and maybe before that, martial law, and or war.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Oh god not again...
Posted by: Livemike on Oct 9, 2008 8:04 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
History not only repeats itself, bad interpretations of history are repeated as well. The "overproduction" theory was debunked by Say centuries ago. What caused the current crisis is well known, unsustainable credit expansion caused a bubble, just like it always does. As usual the left are scrambling for a way to blame someone other than government. The trouble is their explanations don't make sense. Why would the rich compared to the poor having more money cause a bubble? It would reduce average profit rates (since capacity would increase reducing prices for goods) but since there was nowhere to get a bigger profit that would not cause a drop in the asset price.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]