AlterNet / By AlterNet Staff
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Bailout Backlash: Five Surprising Things That Happened on Thursday

Protests on Wall Street ... White House pow-wow flops ... Bailout plan implodes ... Obama will attend debate ... McCain's suspended campaign stunt.
September 26, 2008  |  
 
 
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Even news junkies had a hard time keeping up with a flurry of events on September 25 on Wall Street, Washington and the presidential campaigns. Here's a round-up of what happened:

1. Outrage over the bailout spreads across the Internet and to Wall Street

The Internet is flooded with angst about Treasury Secretary Paulson's proposed $700 billion bailout:
A lot of the online rage is channeled in the form of signatures on petitions and electronic letters to members of Congress. Senator Bernie Sanders (Independent-Vt.) is circulating a popular one on the left-wing blog Huffington Post. The 1.9-million member Service Employees International Union is also circulating a sign-on letter to Congress that reads in part: "No deal. No blank check." StopTheHousingBailout.com reasons: "A bailout tells responsible Americans that they are suckers."
The anger is coming from right-leaning groups as well. The National Taxpayers Union's "No More Bailouts!" petition reads: "Bailouts that keep mismanaged organizations afloat delay natural corrections to unsound business practices . Enough is enough. No more bailouts. Not with my tax dollars."
The conservative site townhall.com features a similar petition. Right-wing blogger Patrick Ruffini, meanwhile, urges Republicans to vote against the bailout, since "God Himself couldn't have given rank-and-file Republicans a better opportunity to create political space between themselves and the Administration."
And as Steven Wishnia reports for AlterNet, protesters took to New York's financial district:
Enraged by the prospect of $700 billion of their taxes going to reimburse Wall Street speculators for their dubious investments, about 500 protesters paraded through Lower Manhattan's financial district Thursday afternoon, their chants of "You broke it, you bought it" reverberating through the narrow office building canyons and off the flag-draped wall of the New York Stock Exchange.
2. White House pow-wow flops

The White House summit originally billed as a bipartisan, non-partisan effort to come to a deal on Treasury Secretary Hank Paulson's proposed $700 billion bailout plan ended bitterly. With the entire Senate and House leadership along with Barack Obama and John McCain in attendance, Paulson apparently got down on one knee at the end of the meeting and begged the Democratic congressional leaders not to publicly disclose how poorly the session had gone:

Inside the White House session, House Republican leader John Boehner announced his concerns about the emerging plan and asked that the conservatives' alternative be considered.
Financial Services Chairman Barney Frank, the feisty Democrat who has been leading negotiations with Paulson, reacted angrily, saying Republicans had waited until the last moment to present their proposal.
McCain, who dramatically announced Wednesday that he was suspending his campaign to deal with the economic crisis, stayed silent for most of the session and spoke only briefly to voice general principles for a rescue plan.
"If money isn't loosened up, this sucker could go down," Bush apparently warned as the meeting broke up. Republican Sen. Richard Shelby of Alabama, the top Republican on the Senate Banking Committee summed up the White House meeting, saying there was "obviously no agreement."

3. The entire bailout discussion implodes entirely

As the Washington Post reports, "A renegade bloc of Republicans moved to reshape a massive bailout of the U.S. financial system yesterday, surprising and angering Bush administration and congressional leaders who hours earlier announced agreement on the 'fundamentals' of a deal":
Democrats accused Boehner of acting on behalf of GOP presidential candidate Sen. John McCain (Ariz.) in trying to disrupt a developing consensus
Democrats say they would not approve the legislation without a significant number of Republican votes to share in any political fallout from the controversial proposal, which comes just weeks before the November election. "We are working to try to get this bill ready, but if House Republicans continue to reject the president's approach, then there's no bill," said Rep. Barney Frank (D-Mass.), an architect of the bailout legislation. "We told Paulson the whole thing is at risk if the president can't get his own party to participate."
Marc Ambinder of the Atlantic Monthly reports that there are less than 100 of the 202 GOP house members who would support the Paulson plan.

4. Obama says he'll host a townhall meeting if McCain doesn't show up

Sam Stein of the Huffington Post reported on Thursday, "Barack Obama is committed to hosting a public, televised event Friday night in Mississippi even if John McCain does not show up," according to an Obama official. "In McCain's absence, the Senator is willing to make the scheduled debate a townhall meeting, a one-on-one interview with NewsHour's Jim Lehrer, or the combination of the two, the official said."

Interestingly, Mississippi governor and former chair of the Republican Party Haley Barbour also said Thursday that he believed the debate would continue as planned. And later in the day, McCain spokesman Tucker Bounds implied that the McCain campaign was going into the debate.

5. John McCain's fake campaign suspension

On Wednesday, McCain said he would "suspend" his campaign and return to Washington to work on the bailout proposal. But it was soon clear that this was a gigantic political stunt. As Think Progress reports, "Five hours after McCain said he would suspend his campaign, aides Nancy Pfotenhauer, Tucker Bounds, and Mike Duhaime appeared on Fox News and MSNBC five times, frequently criticizing Obama and Democrats."

The Huffington Post also reported that:

Across the country, McCain campaign offices are up and running, accepting volunteers, conducting phone banking, literature dropping and other GOTV activities. This held true on a local, state, and even regional level. The Huffington Post called up 15 McCain-Palin and McCain Victory Committee headquarters in various battleground states. Not one said that it was temporarily halting operations because of the supposed "suspension" in the campaign. Several, in fact, enthusiastically declared the continuation of their work. Others hadn't even heard that the candidate for whom they were devoting their time had officially stopped campaigning.

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Hopefully this Bailout is Dead ...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: mmckinl on Sep 26, 2008 12:15 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We're probably gonna need that money to fund the FDIC and Pension Guarantees once the banks and the stock markets implode ...

The Democrats should turn their backs on the banksters and embrace the American people. They have been given political permission by the Republicans, who, I hate to say, are doing right by America in opposing this giveaway that would not stop the freezing of the financial markets.

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» either way Posted by: kegbot1
» RE: either way Posted by: peridot
» Thanks to the House GOP... Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals
» RE: Thanks to the House GOP... Posted by: Karl.Ben
» Regulate Congress! Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals
» RE: egulate Congress! Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: egulate Congress! Posted by: Karl.Ben
» RE: Thanks to the House GOP... Posted by: left_libertarian

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McCain shot himself in the foot...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: NoMcCainPalin on Sep 26, 2008 12:20 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
legs, torso, both arms and his head.

Good riddance, Songbird!

Old Man McCain and Stupid Sarah -- wrong for America, wrong for the world
For reasons why JM and SP should not be elected
in November, click on: Vote Against McCain/Palin
(HOTTEST anti-McCain/Palin site on the Web)

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Radical Alternative
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Direct Democracy on Sep 26, 2008 12:47 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If the bailout goes through, close your bank account and do all transactions in cash.

FREE AMERICA

REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY

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» RE: adical Alternative Posted by: Von
» RE: adical Alternative Posted by: weathered
» Small Scale Capitalism Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: adical Alternative Posted by: DaBear
» RE: adical Alternative Posted by: greenPuker

Comments are closed-

FASCIST ECONOMY STUNT = “BAILOUT”
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on Sep 26, 2008 1:37 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The “bailout” is basic blackmail extortion. A private label for what is in point of fact—a criminal parasite class (or what has been traditionally called “the ruling class”).

The so-called “bailout” is doublespeak for the establishment’s latest trap that feeds into the hypocrisy of what is a de facto corporate monopoly ruled Washington and MSM axis. Thus, no version of blackmail “bailout” can work for the simple fact it will NOT address core systemic issues that reflect a nation raped and gutted by what amounts to a Wall Street parasite freeloader class.

At the top of this Ponzi orgy is the private Orwellian “Federal Reserve” Corp (never federal, with minus ZERO reserves) from where the $1,280 QUADRILLION derivatives bubble originated. Notice: that’s $1,280 TRILLIONS for an amount so large that even a 10% write-down would break the entire planet overnight (Bank of International Settlements figure).

The Federal Reserve sham basically works like this: The government granted its power to create money to “FED” banks. The “FED” creates money out of thin air, then loans it back to the government [ i.e. the people ] charging interest. The government levies income taxes to pay the interest on the debt.

Put simply, a nation ruled by parasite monopoly corporate crime better known as FASCISM was built to gut the nation for private abuse.

So the truth is, the world is already far worse than bankrupt under Organized Corporate Crime rule that has plundered everything in sight for greed based stolen power that Fascists now want Americans to pay for on the public nickel. In other words, the ambush “bailout” is a monopoly Fascist coup and criminal power grab to be swallowed down like acid Kool-Aid by the gullible.

But of course, caving in to any such extortion “bailout” scheme would be transparent insanity. And any recommendation that advocates such lunacy should be dismissed out of hand.

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» Shock Doctrine comes home to roost Posted by: Itsthewater

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have you ever noticed
[Report this comment]
Posted by: helenahanbasquet on Sep 26, 2008 3:33 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
how the Republicans are never about bipartisanship unless they are in shit up to their eyeballs?

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» RE: have you ever noticed Posted by: VZEQICVA
» that would be great Posted by: undrgrndgirl
» RE: that would be great Posted by: Bliss Doubt
» aha! Posted by: Bliss Doubt

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New National Radio Ad
[Report this comment]
Posted by: ErHoff on Sep 26, 2008 3:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
New National Radio Ad:

It's September Madness on Wall Street.

For years big business has been moving back the dates on frivolous holiday decorating days like Halloween, Thanksgiving, X-Mas to where Halloween decorations go on sale September 1st.

In the past you had to wait till October for things like the Russian Revolution, or when vice-presidential candidate George Bush Senior did a deal to keep our hostages in Iran for a nice round number of 444days in exchange for selling weapons to Iran.

Now you don't have to wait till October for decorative political surprises anymore!

That's right no more waiting till October for sneaky government malevolence.

Ever since they learned how to scare you from your Constitution in September 2001; the same group that brought you Controlled Demolition of the three skyscrapers, the missile hit on pentagon accounting auditors, the now famous ad hoc Why Wait Till October Group in the Whitewash House has been cooking up some good ones to spring on you.

Now the Whitewash House brings to you Presidential Ponzi in September! That's right they steal more than $2000 from each and every child and poor working person in America and hand it over to the richest criminals in history.

Our Criminal Chimp in Resident says: Act Now! Don't wait. Don't read the fine print! Don't Read. Just be afraid America, hand over the cash now so Ponzi can continue to flourish in your economy.

Remember if you let the Wall Street Ponzi Schemers fail it will be on your conscious.

This advertisement was brought to you by your own money.

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» RE: New National Radio Ad Posted by: kellysgarden
» Now that's good advertising. I love it! Posted by: common intelligence

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No wonder their magic number is 9%
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Karl.Ben on Sep 26, 2008 4:00 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's crazy that the democrats (9% congress) would have gone along with this with no consulation with the repubs in the hoiuse. It's also crazy, but expected that Bush couldn't lead anyone out of the basement of the whitehouse, no less the basement of economic collpase!

I guess they (the dems) figured they could steam roll right over the repubs..

Thank god someone is looking out for the nations economic well being because Bush and the democrats sure aren't!

McCains "stunt" as many like to call it really gave this a sense of urgency on the part of congress. They all probably would have left early today and taken the weekend off!

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» The real McCain Posted by: greenthumb
» FairyTales v REALITY Posted by: PointMan
» RE: FairyTales v REALITY Posted by: kahalab
» so is barney frank Posted by: undrgrndgirl
» I stand corrected! Posted by: Karl.Ben
» The reason approval is so low Posted by: truthlover

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Been waiting
[Report this comment]
Posted by: When In Doubt on Sep 26, 2008 4:14 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This may well be the reality check the country has needed for 25 years.

It may be the end of the Greed Nation as the Sleepinmg Giant of the American People realized we have been had.

Maybe the roar of "ENOUGH" will get loud enough to drown out the fear mongering small b bush/cheney cacaphony.

No question..the future will be painful because optimism has been a false front from this tragic debacle.

Problems are easier to solve when we have few options.

This administration took care of those options.

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» The Time has Come! Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: The Time has Come! Posted by: greenPuker
» RE: Been waiting Posted by: VZEQICVA
» Time to stop waiting and act. Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: Time to stop waiting and act. Posted by: greenPuker

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CASH FOR EQUITY, DO NOT BUY WORTHLESS PAPER!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Peter Mackrael on Sep 26, 2008 4:42 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The US Congress is currently under pressure to quickly pass Paulson’s $700 billion bail-out proposal. Paulson's initial proposal will give the Bush administration incredible power to privatize profits of investment banks while socializing their losses!

If any company is given federal capital, the US government should receive equity in the company otherwise any massive cash infusion will merely reward those investment banks that got deepest in debt. Buying worthless paper from failing investment banks makes no sense. There is no clear method to evaluate the paper to be 'bought' and worst of all, no regulations to address the real cause or to investigate possible criminal activity. Buying this worthless paper from investment banks without writing and enforcing new trading regulations will merely encourage continued derivatives trading and increase the total US debt. If this occurs, does anyone believe that $700 billion will be enough? I expect total bail-out costs could run into the tens of trillions if foreign investment banks are included. There is no reason to bail out these irresponsible and socially harmful speculators. Let the investment banks and insurance companies that did gamble with derivatives fail as they should.

The government should not get into investment banking, but if they insist, then government ownership is the only way. This will ensure that future profits (if any) are returned to the people and that new regulations to manage derivatives trading - assuming Congress writes them - are followed. If and when these investment banks become profitable and socially responsible, they can be sold back to private investors.
Meanwhile if there truly is a shortage of capital for operations of commercial enterprises (as claimed) credit could be extended through existing commercial banks in the form of federal loans – this money should not go to the investment banks or to commercial banks that are owned by investment banks. I believe that recent legislation allowing investment banks to buy commercial banks is a serious error. It can lead to loss of confidence and a run on legitimate commercial banks - see http://www.slate.com/id/2074372/ .

In any case, I certainly do not trust Treasury Secretary Paulson and the Bush administration to administer this huge 'bail-out/buy-out'. As with the war in Iraq, I fear that most of this money will go to political allies and cronies. A separate bi-partisan committee/agency should be created to assess other alternatives. If it is agreed to buy these failing banks at their current market value, the guidelines and restrictions must be transparent and all purchase offers should be subject to review and approval by Congress.

I believe it is highly likely that conspiracy to defraud and outright fraud has occurred before and may occur during this 'rescue' plan. An independent agency should be assigned to investigate fraud/conspiracy and these investigations should begin immediately.

The current approach uses "fear of imminent financial collapse and appeals to the need for public sacrifice" combined with a rush to push a "clean" bill through a Congress distracted by “how to protect the interests of homeowners facing foreclosure”, without allowing adequate time for assessment. This reminds me of the method that President Bush used to pass the bill to authorize the invasion of Iraq.

Regarding homeowners facing mortgage default, these owners got in over their head by choice. They and their lenders chose to speculate in the housing market. If they believe that a lender defrauded them, they should initiate a law suit against the bank that gave them their mortgage. The federal government should not assume any responsibility for these mortgages. It is unfair to make responsible borrowers pay for these failed speculators.

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» AMEN! Posted by: Solar Wind

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Stupid is as stupid does
[Report this comment]
Posted by: solrev on Sep 26, 2008 4:50 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We revolutionaries thought you progressives would be of some help, from most of the remarks, you people are just as bad as the sheeple you whine about. You are being handed what we are willing to die for and you can not see it, reactionaries do not make very good revolutionaries. There are to groups in congress fighting about a bailout, one group is the free market capitalists and the other group is willing to socialize risk. What do we do after the bailout, it is sad that you are on the side that wants the free market to decide. They own you because you are them.

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» RE: Stupid is as stupid does Posted by: BobKincaid
» RE: Stupid is as stupid does Posted by: badkitty68
» Did You Say ---> Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: Do not be so reactionary Posted by: left_libertarian
» Just plain stupid Posted by: Jest2007

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Prosecute for Treason & Bail out AmericaNs
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Purple Girl on Sep 26, 2008 5:15 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Screw US Once Shame on YOU- Screw US twice Shame on US.
McCain slitered out of Conviction during th ekeating 5 Scandal- will we let him do it again? The Guilt is not only written all over his face - It lives and breaths in his Campaign headquaters- Davis Gramm Carly..About 19 Lobbist. Question for Davis- if you were Doing NO work for Freddie, yet getting paid is that Not Embezzlement,Fraud? If you were doing covert operations for Freddie, what role did you paly in bringing it down- Kind of like Torching your own business to get the 'insurance' money. So which Is it Davis? Ya might want to claim the Former- the latter will get up Hung for Treason, along with your current Boss- Johnny Boy, who has a long Criminal Record for High crimes.
What Congress is doing as Usual is the 'Shell Game' with our Nations (and her citizens) Futures.
KISS Boys and Girls- go to the Chinese (since we don't have even a cheap chinese Pot to piss in left) and request the Loan. But not for the Gamblers but for the AmericaN Citizens- who have proven they KNOW How to build and Stimualte an Economy. Explain that once our People get back on their feet they will once agian return to buying products - esp Chinese (We love to find a bargin- as long as it won't Kill Us).then Cuta Check to every Taxpaying Household- A loan to ourselves. Tell the public to pay their mortgages, car payments, credit cards, utlities and put away some fro a 'rainy day',BUT take a small amount of that Check and Buy some Middle Classer type 'luxury' with Cash- Computer, TV..American Made Only. this will kick up manufacturing Demands, thus Jobs.
The only System which is compatible with a Democratic, Free market Doctrine is 'Bottoms Up'.Trickle Down was proven to be nothing more than a modern day Monarchial Economic Ideology- Freidman was an ELITIST and Fundementally UNAMERICAN! Thus all those who employed his Doctrine are TRAITORS- Above & Beyond any we have Ever seen Before! Our Response and Our Punishment should reflect this Fact!
So Every CEO,CFO,COO, Boardmember and Bought & paid for Politician should be facing the Gallows- all their assets should be seized, and put back into the national Coffers. Of course then again since they had no reservations basically leading US , Our Children and Our grandchildren to the Global Auction Block- perhaps we should offer that to them. Face the Gallows, or the Auction Block for the nextfew generations- You Pick McCain,Davis, Gramm.....How much can we get for a Blonde Ex- Socialite/Heiress on the Asian Market? Ho wmuch you want to bet that Coward McCain would put Cindy on the Block, to try and save his own ass???

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The old razzle-dazzle
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Posted by: Democritus on Sep 26, 2008 5:55 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Remember that soft-shoe shuffle Richard Gere performed in "Chicago" to confuse the jury? That's what Karl Rove protégé and McCain campaign manager Steve Schmidt was doing in having McCain announce McCain's "suspension" of his campaign to deal with Wall Street's financial crisis.

What prompted it was, understandably, Obama's leaping ahead of McCain in the recent ABC poll. McCain even proposed suspending the debate because of "national emergency." Obama rightly demurred. If McCain had really been concerned with our financial mess, he would have done something about it during his long tenure in the Senate. He might even have showed up for some of the votes he's missed in the last couple of months.

Nice try, Steve, but the old "razzle-dazzle" isn't working. Good luck finding another job after November 4.

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Sad
[Report this comment]
Posted by: GreyFoxThree on Sep 26, 2008 6:06 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Souns to me as if the entire country has gone straight to Hell in a hand basket! Pretty sad indeed. the Sheeple suffer and our leaders run around like chickens with their heads cut off. Go figure, poor leadership at its finest.

Jiff
Is your ISP Spying on you?

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Palin and McCain: Untried and Untrue
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Posted by: KeepsonTickn on Sep 26, 2008 6:08 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Couric interview shows how sadly lacking in experience or preparation Palin is. And McCain again shows his true colors with more lies and dissembling.

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Not Savvy
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Posted by: pcushniesr on Sep 26, 2008 6:17 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I admit that I am not very savvy when it comes to finances on the scale we have in this present issue, so I'm asking for an education from readers. My question is: What would be likely to happen if no bailout whatsoever took place? If everybody just sat back and let nature take its course? Thanks in advance for any info.

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» RE: Not Savvy Posted by: greenthumb

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this sucker's going down
[Report this comment]
Posted by: taxidriver on Sep 26, 2008 6:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ah, our eloquent president. But who's the sucker going down? The economy? Bush? Everyone who voted for him? All of the above?

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You want to show disapproval...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: ReallyBearish on Sep 26, 2008 7:12 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of this bailout BS? Make a legal protest that will send the wrath of God down their throats. Buy gold (if you can find any). That's the signal to Wall Street that the jig is up.

The COMEX has been bending over backwards to keep the price of gold down. At some point foreigners will dump the dollar for gold, and if you're holding dollars, you'll get stuck with nothing.

Of course, you can't buy gold coins from the Treasury. They just had a run on them and had to stop selling.

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» RE: You want to show disapproval... Posted by: garciamukamuka
» Stupid, stupid, stupid Posted by: ReallyBearish

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Short-changed
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Spiritgirl on Sep 26, 2008 7:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For the last 30 years both Democrats and Republicans have been bowing down and preaching about the "Free Market" as they rolled back regulations; taken to new heights over the last 7 years they have fleeced the American public with a combination of: collusion thru de-regulation, tax breaks, off-shore tax havens, lower taxes on the wealthy, Golden parachute packages, etc.!

Now that the Ponzi scheme is toppling down they have the nerve to want bail-outs! Let's call it a "Market Correction"! Let them sweat a little longer, before any deal is sealed! Congress needs to get a spine and a pair, hold these people accountable for their (Mis)actions, demand some help for homeowners facing foreclosure, and rules and regulations must be put back into place to force these people to walk the line! If they refuse - they loose!

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This article misses the point entirely
[Report this comment]
Posted by: GuitarBill on Sep 26, 2008 7:19 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article misses the point entirely because the real evil of this proposed "bailout" is not that it helps the degenerate American ruling elite. The real evil of this "bailout" is that it will financially constrain whoever becomes the next president.

The goal of the "bailout" is not to help Wall Street; they are beyond help. The goal is to bankrupt Obama's administration before they ever take office.

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» Half truth Posted by: Karl.Ben
» The unmitigated gall. Posted by: GuitarBill
» The unmitigated gall - ouch! Posted by: Karl.Ben
» No, you fail. Posted by: GuitarBill
» Too dumb to realize... Posted by: Karl.Ben

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Bail out homeowners too not just banks!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: garciamukamuka on Sep 26, 2008 7:22 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Solve several problems at once. Why give the money directly to the banks? Why not use the money to keep people in their homes?
1. Renegotiate bad mortgages and turn them into fixed interest affordable ones.
2. Pay the minimum to bring each loan into current good standing.

With this plan the banks do get the money but the people benefit too.

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X-POLYGAMIST WIFE in ARIZONA
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Posted by: X-POLYGAMIST WIFE on Sep 26, 2008 7:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don't give our money to CROOKS on Wall Street.

Pay individual investors back and the economy will boom!

http://www.bankingonheaven.com
BANKING ON HEAVEN . COM

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» The Criminal Empire Devours Itself Posted by: Last Chance

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TAX PAYERS ARE ALREADY PAYING TRILLIONS FOR THE WARS
[Report this comment]
Posted by: cori on Sep 26, 2008 7:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As we are sitting on the 2nd biggiest oil deposit in the world, while oil companies are making record profits, we are paying billions if not trillions on military spending. Now Bush and until very recently McCain, who supported the war and said we have to be in Iraq for 100 years,has put a halt to negoiating a bailout that won't totally shaft the American tax payer.
Bush and McCain opposed regulation knowing full well this would lead to disaster. Now they want to add another trillion to the already exploding military budget that just pays arms manufacturers and private corporations. These people who have stolen the last 2 elections and are working hard to steal the 08 election, will spend us into more disasters and McCains track record has not been one of fiscal responsibility. If McCain gets in we can kiss Social security good bye, our education system will totally fold, leaving huge populations who will lack the tools to make wise decisions. A stupid America is one that won't protect our Democracy from the predators who want to take all of our tax dollars for them and leave congress and us out.

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Why are the Democrats in such a Mad Rush to give Bush $700 Billion?
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Posted by: US Citizen on Sep 26, 2008 7:34 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Democrats should not give any money to Bush, Cheney, Paulson, and Bernanke. This is putting the foxes in charge of the hen house and will probably
destroy the Democratic party for another 10 years.
There should be a provision to not make any decisions about the money until after January 21, 2009. Wall Street will hungrily wait until then.

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» Easy way out. Posted by: BAKslider

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What About When They Get Rid Of Paper Money?
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Posted by: loxias on Sep 26, 2008 7:37 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How long before they slide through legislation to put everything in the form of plastic?
No more than 10 years I bet.

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To Do or Not To Do...that is the question...
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Posted by: ChicagoPaul on Sep 26, 2008 7:37 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Interesting posts, so far….

So, here we are at this moment in history: This MAY be a momentous moment, or this MAY be an ordinary moment in history.

The financial structure of the United States could crumble in a week or a month (or a day), or it might not. Who knows? I guarantee you that Mr. Paulson doesn’t know. President Bush doesn’t know (trying not to be overly snide here). Senator McCain doesn’t know. Senator Obama doesn’t know. The list goes on…..

I’d also submit that I don’t know if we are on the brink of financial disaster or not either.

I would also add that YOU don’t either. Not “for sure” anyway!!

So, where does that leave us? My best guess is that we have a choice to do something or nothing. Pretty easy, really.

If we do nothing and nothing happens…KEWL!!

If we do nothing and the financial disaster actually happens, we, first of all, probably should say, “Shit, we shoulda’ done something.” Then, we’ll probably DO something.

If we do something and nothing happens, we’ll either be able to say, “Damn, it’s a good thing we did something.” Or, we will be able to say, “What a heap of crap, we shoulda’ done nothing.”

If we do something, and the financial disaster STILL happens, then we probably will say, “Well, hell, we better do even more.”

Now, I’m not even interested in WHAT we should do, only WHETHER we should do something.

(See below)

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» My Humble Suggestion: Posted by: ChicagoPaul
» Missed a ZERO Posted by: ChicagoPaul

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smells bad
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Posted by: maryyooch on Sep 26, 2008 7:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don't you think this whole bail out fiasco has a bad odor to it? It reminds me of the last presidential election when, every time there was a drop in Bush's poll numbers, they would heighten the terror alerts.
Don't you think that Paulson, Bernake, et al, knew this was coming? Banks and Mortgage giants do not fail in a day, nevermind a week or month!
I do not trust a single person in the Bush administration. Just like McCains political ploy, the White House is just trying to help him along.
Sen. Dodd and Barney Frank and even Harry Reid all told the public that if McCain showed up it would just throw a wrench in the negotiations. Which it has done.
Amazing, that McCain. It truly boggles the mind how he thinks this will help his campaign. He looks more impulsive, partison and useless day by day.

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» RE: smells bad Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: smells bad Posted by: ChicagoPaul
» RE: smells bad Posted by: LeeAnnG
» RE: smells bad Posted by: ChicagoPaul

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Washington Is Ruled By Organized Crime
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Posted by: Last Chance on Sep 26, 2008 7:56 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bush used lying fear tactics to force Congress to approve his attack on Iraq. Now he's using those same lying fear tactics to steal 700 billion dollars from our taxes to cover the debts of corrupt bankers. That is a criminal enterprise and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law!

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When Ceo's fly....
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Posted by: ashbaines on Sep 26, 2008 8:07 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Where are the jumpers? I want to see em splattered on Wall Street sidewalks before I call this a catastrophe.

Until then, I"m reminded of the Colo. Springs school board members who conspired to halt bus service for the district - saying they needed to 'hit em where it hurts' to get their tax increase.

I'm sick of government conspiring to spread the misery of a few to the population at large, to enlist us to their plight.

Let's have some body splatters first - with CEO's Mudd & Syron sharing a cell with a gal named Darnell.

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Congress...take a breather. Stop Foreclosures first
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Posted by: reelectnoone on Sep 26, 2008 8:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rushing leads to errors in judgment. Slow down. Let Wall Street wait.

However! Pass emergency legislation to implement a 90 day moratorium on home foreclosures to protect Main Street until you have a workable plan.

Paul

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McCain's bold plan !
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Posted by: reelectnoone on Sep 26, 2008 8:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This was obviously a stunt by McCain. How did he think people would buy this after he himself admitted he did not know much about the economy. as but as only 1 of 100 Senators what was he going to do? He is not even on the banking committee that was working on the plan.

"I'm delighted that John is expressing himself on this issue," [Senator] Dodd said. "I have heard from Obama on numerous occasions these last couple days. I have never heard from John McCain on the issue . . . I'm just worried a little bit that sort of politicizing this problem, sort of flying in here, I'm beginning to think this is more of a rescue plan for John McCain and not a rescue plan for the economy."

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darkmark
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Posted by: darkmark on Sep 26, 2008 8:41 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
in 2004 a bill was passed to change the ratio of reserves from 1 to 12 to 1 to 40. now at over 1 to 30 and no regulators in sight we have a financial meltdown happening. congress and the senate have made changes on paulson's request for a bailout of 700 billion dollars and on oversight. its either congress's modified bailout or severe pain. not just for the banks but for every working person and their children in this country. we can prance around and be blind to the problem or make a deal and demand a trade for our 700 billion dollars. along with the bailout there should be single payer medical care and free quality public education, not just k thru 12 but k thru post graduate. that's where the real strength of this country lies, in a educated citizen, a new class of citizen.

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Let's get creative
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Posted by: Prussian on Sep 26, 2008 9:06 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The proposed buyout of financial institutions is simply immoral. It would not directly help investors; it would simply rescue speculators and money changers. Even the Bible, condemns these groups. Let’s get creative and not continue the path of mining the wealth of America to give it to the few.

We should consider the immediate establishment of a federal central bank that would instead provide the funds to rebuild our Country. Funds going into infrastructure, jobs and education, have a multiplier effect - one dollar invested becomes many. As it circulates it stimulates growth and reduces the economic burden of privatization.

We need to reinstate regulations on financial institutions and predatory corporations. This is the time to return to fair taxation where this type of greed does not flourish. Let’s return to the American Dream for everyone. Please don’t let us down.

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ANARCHY IN THE USA!!!
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Posted by: whathappened on Sep 26, 2008 9:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone?

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» Can there be peaceful anarchy? Posted by: Last Chance

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WHoo Hoo! "we don't nickle and dime you", ...
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Posted by: common intelligence on Sep 26, 2008 9:16 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yahooooooo!

Actung, actung, abandon von shipman!

One person said it eloquently.

"The whole of the Financial Committee is busy rearranging the (musical) deck chairs on the Titanic" as they try to anticiple when the music will stop.

Life boats? Sorry the ship is under supplied because "this ship is too big to sink"!

YA think? Don't these scenerios sound familiar?

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» Back To The Land! Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: Back To The Land! Posted by: EncinoM

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Bailout solution
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Posted by: Sushi on Sep 26, 2008 9:24 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How about we take the $700 billion ( they suddenly found in our pockets) subtract health care, subtract education, subtract infrastructure, then divide the rest into the population, give each citizen a check so they can pay off their mortgages! The banks would get their money (through us anyway), we could pay down our staggering debts, the CEO's can write themselves their hefty bonuses and we can go back to consuming. What's the problem?

Their way, we give the banks $700 billion, then owe the banks $700 billion? In addition, we still owe our mortgages on top of it! The banks are robbing us!

Sushi
"I need just enough money to tide me over until I need more."

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» Bailout solution ??? Posted by: Last Chance

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A Proposed Letter from the republican party
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Posted by: JohnJlws on Sep 26, 2008 9:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With a lot of friends in the republican party I thought I would offer my hand with their current problems. I offer the following letter a suggestion for them:

"Our fellow Americans:

Gosh, where to begin. we're sorry. We're sorry for the last 8 years of nonsense and crap. With the possible exception of his speech following 9-1-1 and maybe the 72 hours following we're sorry for everything that ever dribbled out of GW's or any of his Administration's mouth. We're doubly sorry for asking all those minions to get up every night on Larry and Dave and Jay and wherever else anyone would have us and lace together words and conclusions that shockingly no one questioned, but that didn't mean they had any credence as they did not.

But mostly, our fellow Americans, we're sorry for asking you to put 'McCain/Palin' signs in your yard. Can you please take them down. We're as embarrassed as all of you and we don't want to see them either. And, since we all know the Democrats have been right for about the last 5 decades would you go ahead and recycle them so maybe we can quit destroying our planet? We're sorry, we sort of got caught up in this "make all the money you can and then when you've made all the money you can take from those who don't have very much to begin with and hide this by telling them how lazy they are and how the government can't support them forever and how they should pull themselves up by their bootstraps like we all did" even though few of us did. This, we have to say, was simply an honest mistake on our parts and perhaps a little overzealous. We got caught up in the moment. Sorry.

And we're sorry for every convention trotting out the 15 black people we have in our party and putting them right where the cameras always point. We actually have 26 black people in our party, but invariably for one reason or another 11 of them can't get off work to come to the convention. We all have black friends though.

Sorry for all the mudslinging and lies, too. I guess it was around Abe Lincoln right before he went to that unfortunate play that we stopped telling the whole truth. Abe was pretty good at it, but gosh we sort of lost the whole vision, truth thing around then and just never got it back. We have a committee looking into that.

Mostly we're sorry for this candidate. We could have done better. There was a
republican in the Senate who mentioned, when we were getting all the Reagan wannabes together, that he had a really smart parrot and we thought about running Ace, that's his name, but he didn't meet the age requirement and even with the way we've dismantled the Constitution we thought the Democrats would sue us with all their lawyers and even though we control all the courts we probably couldn't win that one without having to resort to using the military to quell the revolution that would have started in California. We drew up plans, but someone at the last minute said they didn't think the idea was a good one and for the first time in his Administration GW actually listened.

We're sorry. We've decided not to run anyone this year for President. We've talked with John, given him a big bowl of applesauce and he's okay with it. Sarah's pretty upset. She said "Thanks, but no thanks." One in our party, who prefers to remain anonymous said, very loudly, "Oh, shut up." We're not sure where Sarah is, but she's not doing interviews.

We hope you'll forgive us, America. We're going to go away for a while now and rest. We'll be back though. There's another Contract for America out there somewhere. We've hired some plumbers to check in the usual places where we find our ideas. Thanks for your understanding. Good luck with this Obama thing. He seems like a pretty good guy. Is he really that tall, or does he wear heels?

The Republican Party."

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» Perfect! Posted by: LeeAnnG

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I have Never Voted For a Republican
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Posted by: Shankari46 on Sep 26, 2008 9:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
but I'm glad they are having a hissy fit. I am embarrassed and outraged that the Democrats bend over and let Bush rape the whole country. The Republican Senator from Alabama made more sense than anyone else. Why is this? We need some aggressive, honest, progressives to replace these push-over Democrats. Every post up for election needs to have a third party progressive. Enough is enough. We need some real change not business as usual.

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Thank the House Republicans!
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Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals on Sep 26, 2008 9:41 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You know you AlterNeters dont want to be billed to bailout Wall Street and the "real" Republicans are standing in the way.

Its not to late to support Nader!

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» has this been a land mark day Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals
» RE: has this been a land mark day Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals
» Ironic, isn't it? Posted by: Jeanne
» eh Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals

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Just an observation
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Posted by: Bastet62 on Sep 26, 2008 10:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Funny how when it comes to war, torture, rendition, the trashing of the constitution, high crimes and misdemeanors, no health care for millions: not much dissent about those things and those that have protested against these things are marginalized, ignored, demonized, called traitors, pepper-sprayed, beaten and jailed!

BUT HEY! When it comes to MONEY - wow! The populace all of a sudden becomes relevant and cohesive enough to make the news and get the attention of those that "represent" them.

Kind of shows where America's priorities are doesn't it?

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APOCALIPSTICK NOW!
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Sep 26, 2008 10:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Please, when you're done reading all of the great articles and comments on AlterNet, have a look at what I wrote this morning on this very topic. Here's a link:

APOLALIPSTIC NOW!

Cheers!

Tom Degan

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Crisis Illusion
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Posted by: cbishopp on Sep 26, 2008 10:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A common thread in the manipulation of the public during the Bush administration has been crisis. As each crisis arises bold dramatic last minute action must be taken to protect our freedom, our safety, our economy.
As far as the news is concerned I have seen less information about the nuts and bolts of this financial crisis than I have heard the actual words "crisis", "meltdown", and "panic".
Keep in mind that destroying the dollar is a necessary step to forming a North American union. Other steps include creating an overall distrust of your government, depleting military resources, and in the end creating panic and scarcity of resources on a mass scale where the people scream for effective authoritarian control. These problems that have been created for us will force us into willing slavery.
This has been in motion for quite a while, certainly before Bush, but little Bush has been instrumental in doing the most damage.
But as I watch CNN I see constant focus on the theater of Bush's negotiations and McCain's dramatic campaign cancellation and the meltdown of the economy with a presidential debate countdown ticker in the corner and then there is a comfortable, calming commercial for the Nexus card (true story).
For those who don't know, Nexus is a cooperative program between the United States and Canada via the Canada Border Services Agency and United States Customs and Border Protection that will allow you, voluntarily, to be pre-screened for travel to our neighbors to the north (or south if you are Canadian). It was set up four years ago and began last year as part of the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative, or WHTI, which requires a passport or other official identification for all U.S. and Canadian citizens who want to travel from one country to the other.
Nexus takes WHTI a step further by pre-qualifying people who are citizens or permanent residents of either country. To qualify, a person has to submit an application, go through a registration process; and pass an Interpol criminal history check.
Small steps toward world government and big events that make it happen. Once the infrastructure is in place the proper impetus will be found to drive the public into submission.

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See What Sweden did in 1992
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Posted by: JSquercia on Sep 26, 2008 11:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sweden had a similar problem in 1992 but they MADE the banks right down their assets BEFORE they stepped in to recapitalize . There was much behind the scenes fighting but they presented a united front AND they Soved the problem . Seems like we should consider the same PROVEN approach .

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» But did anyone go to jail or was hung? Posted by: common intelligence

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here's another idea...
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Posted by: undrgrndgirl on Sep 26, 2008 1:02 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the mega-churches (church of greed)could foot this bill - ultimately they are in cahoots with washington and wall street...

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JUST RECEIVED THIS NOTION
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Posted by: TREEGUY on Sep 26, 2008 2:28 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG, and etcs. Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a We Deserve It Dividend. It is exactly the same amount proposed by President Bush for corporate America.

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+. Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up.. So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billion that equals $425,000.00.

My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a We Deserve It Dividend.

Of course, it would NOT be tax free. So let's assume a tax rate of 30%. Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes. That sends $25,500,000,000 (billions) right back to Uncle Sam. But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket. A husband and wife has $595,000.00.

What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family? Pay off your mortgage – housing crisis solved. Repay college loans – what a great boost to new grads. Put away money for college – it'll be there Safe in a bank – create money to loan to entrepreneurs. Buy a new car – buy appliances – create jobs. Invest in the market – capital drives growth. Pay for your parent's medical insurance – health care improves. Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean – or else. Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.

If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it... instead of trickling out a puny $1000.00 ("vote buy") economic incentive that is being proposed by one of our candidates for President.

If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+!

As for AIG – liquidate it. Sell off its parts. Let American General go back to being American General. Sell off the real estate. Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.

Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't. Sure it's a crazy idea that can "never work." But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party! How do you spell Economic Boom? I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion We Deserve It Dividend more than I do the geniuses at AIG or in Washington DC.

And remember, this plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam. The rest gets poured into the economy. What a boom it would be.

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» RE: CHECK THE MATH Posted by: EncinoM
» I apologize Posted by: TREEGUY

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paranoid still
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Posted by: cbishopp on Sep 26, 2008 10:20 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Below is taken from an article in PC Magazine dated 9/25/08 (similar articles appear in the LA Times, the Independent, the Telegraph, etc. This new proposed British ID has no sign of the union flag or any mention of Britian printed on it.

...Britain unveiled its new biometric identity card on Thursday which the government says will be vital in fighting illegal immigration and terrorism, while critics call it an expensive attack on civil liberties.

The controversial multi-billion pound scheme, which involves one of the world's most ambitious biometric projects, will see ID cards used in Britain for the first time since they were abolished after World War Two.

Initially only foreign nationals from outside the European Economic Area will be required to have one if they come to Britain to work or study, but the scheme will be expanded to Britons and some others over the next few years.

"We all want to see our borders more secure, and human trafficking, organized immigration crime, illegal working and benefit fraud tackled," said Home Secretary Jacqui Smith.

"ID cards for foreign nationals, in locking people to one identity, will deliver in all these areas."

Despite a series of embarrassing data losses recently, including the admission that the personal details of half the population had been mislaid, the government insists that both the cards and their related databases will be secure.

But critics of the cards, which will contain personal details, fingerprints and a facial image, remain unimpressed.

Both major opposition parties have vowed to ditch cards for Britons should they win power, and with the Labour government trailing in the polls, the 4.7 billion pound national identity scheme's days may already be numbered.

"It does not matter how fancy the design of ID cards is, they remain a grotesque intrusion on the liberty of the British people," said Chris Huhne, the Liberal Democrat home affairs spokesman.

"When voting adults are forced to carry ID cards, this scheme will prove to be a laminated poll tax," he added, referring to the local charge whose massive unpopularity led to Margaret Thatcher being ousted as prime minister.

The first cards for foreign nationals will be issued in November while from next year anyone working in sensitive areas, such as airport staff, will need one at a cost of 30 pounds.

Smith said opinion polls showed the majority of the public supported the cards and that people would warm to them once they saw the advantages, allowing them to easily verify who they are and helping the authorities at the same time.

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The $700 billion ‘Bailout’ of Wall Street will have no effect on long-term global financial stabilit
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Posted by: davidhill on Sep 27, 2008 5:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The $700 billion ‘Bailout’ of Wall Street will have no effect on long-term global financial stability
Indeed, The global banking system under the dictates of the capitalist system is dire. In this respect the $700 billion bailout of Wall Street will not have any major impact in the long-term to stem the enormous problems that reside in the global financial markets. This can only be seen as a stopgap in what will become the greatest economic problem that the world has ever seen. For with the US alone having unprecedented and unsustainable household, corporate and public debt of $51.1 trillion at the end of 2007 and projected to be at least $53 trillion (equivalent to nearly the whole economic turnover of the entire world) by the end of this year, $700 billion is only small change in the whole of the global debt market at over $100 trillion (equivalent to nearly two years of global GDP). Indeed, this insurmountable and unmanageable debt in the US alone is running at an interest payment of over $2 trillion a year when all is taken into account. Therefore, the whole fundamentals of the global financial system are totally flawed and where they need radically re-engineering urgently. Consequently all that the $700 billion will do in reality is to simply bail out the bankers who caused this human disaster in the first place and no more. Unfortunately therefore the main effects of this dire problem lie ahead and where presently the taxpayer is being deceived again. For in this respect the financial world and governments are simply looking after their short-term interests and no more. For on the one side they wish to offload their debt scot-free and on the other side, they only think of the impending political elections not the people themselves.

Dr David Hill
World Innovation Foundation Charity (WIFC)
Bern, Switzerland
27th September 2008
UK Postal Address: PO Box A60, Huddersfield, HD1 1XJ
UK Contact No: 01484 537181

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McPalin
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Posted by: Jest2007 on Sep 28, 2008 3:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe McCain's campaign is one big stunt and we, the people, just haven't been told yet. Or maybe we'll end up having a beauty queen for president. That should put a nice cap on the Bush years.

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Limited payouts to CEO's of failed wall street companies
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Posted by: sicntired on Sep 28, 2008 10:40 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's the wording of the deal made today,Sunday,Sept 28,'08.I hope America is ready for the betrayal that's coming on Monday.Paulson was on 60 minutes and looked very much like the guilty coward he is.These people care nothing about joe public.The lip service paid to "main street"was all just a smoke screen laid down to cover up their avarice and panicked rush to pass this sell out bill.Remember the next time you get your tax notice.Nothing says you have to pay this bailout and if the 45% of you that have polled as opposing this bill,refuse to pay it,they're screwed.Right now it's you they want to take the screwing.

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Shadow Banking at work!
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Posted by: Paisano1 on Sep 30, 2008 8:30 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
WHO REALLY OWNS YOUR MONEY? Part One: The Depository Trust & Clearing Corporation
The DTCC controls tens of trillions of dollars in assets, but have you ever heard of them? 99% of all securities list their subsidiary CEDE as the owner - you are just the beneficiary! http://yourmortgageoryourlife.com

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Alternet Comments:

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Hopefully this Bailout is Dead ...
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Posted by: mmckinl on Sep 26, 2008 12:15 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We're probably gonna need that money to fund the FDIC and Pension Guarantees once the banks and the stock markets implode ...

The Democrats should turn their backs on the banksters and embrace the American people. They have been given political permission by the Republicans, who, I hate to say, are doing right by America in opposing this giveaway that would not stop the freezing of the financial markets.

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» either way Posted by: kegbot1
» RE: either way Posted by: peridot
» Thanks to the House GOP... Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals
» RE: Thanks to the House GOP... Posted by: Karl.Ben
» Regulate Congress! Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals
» RE: egulate Congress! Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: egulate Congress! Posted by: Karl.Ben
» RE: Thanks to the House GOP... Posted by: left_libertarian

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McCain shot himself in the foot...
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Posted by: NoMcCainPalin on Sep 26, 2008 12:20 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
legs, torso, both arms and his head.

Good riddance, Songbird!

Old Man McCain and Stupid Sarah -- wrong for America, wrong for the world
For reasons why JM and SP should not be elected
in November, click on: Vote Against McCain/Palin
(HOTTEST anti-McCain/Palin site on the Web)

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Radical Alternative
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Posted by: Direct Democracy on Sep 26, 2008 12:47 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If the bailout goes through, close your bank account and do all transactions in cash.

FREE AMERICA

REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY

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» RE: adical Alternative Posted by: Von
» RE: adical Alternative Posted by: weathered
» Small Scale Capitalism Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: adical Alternative Posted by: DaBear
» RE: adical Alternative Posted by: greenPuker

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FASCIST ECONOMY STUNT = “BAILOUT”
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Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on Sep 26, 2008 1:37 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The “bailout” is basic blackmail extortion. A private label for what is in point of fact—a criminal parasite class (or what has been traditionally called “the ruling class”).

The so-called “bailout” is doublespeak for the establishment’s latest trap that feeds into the hypocrisy of what is a de facto corporate monopoly ruled Washington and MSM axis. Thus, no version of blackmail “bailout” can work for the simple fact it will NOT address core systemic issues that reflect a nation raped and gutted by what amounts to a Wall Street parasite freeloader class.

At the top of this Ponzi orgy is the private Orwellian “Federal Reserve” Corp (never federal, with minus ZERO reserves) from where the $1,280 QUADRILLION derivatives bubble originated. Notice: that’s $1,280 TRILLIONS for an amount so large that even a 10% write-down would break the entire planet overnight (Bank of International Settlements figure).

The Federal Reserve sham basically works like this: The government granted its power to create money to “FED” banks. The “FED” creates money out of thin air, then loans it back to the government [ i.e. the people ] charging interest. The government levies income taxes to pay the interest on the debt.

Put simply, a nation ruled by parasite monopoly corporate crime better known as FASCISM was built to gut the nation for private abuse.

So the truth is, the world is already far worse than bankrupt under Organized Corporate Crime rule that has plundered everything in sight for greed based stolen power that Fascists now want Americans to pay for on the public nickel. In other words, the ambush “bailout” is a monopoly Fascist coup and criminal power grab to be swallowed down like acid Kool-Aid by the gullible.

But of course, caving in to any such extortion “bailout” scheme would be transparent insanity. And any recommendation that advocates such lunacy should be dismissed out of hand.

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» Shock Doctrine comes home to roost Posted by: Itsthewater

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have you ever noticed
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Posted by: helenahanbasquet on Sep 26, 2008 3:33 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
how the Republicans are never about bipartisanship unless they are in shit up to their eyeballs?

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» RE: have you ever noticed Posted by: VZEQICVA
» that would be great Posted by: undrgrndgirl
» RE: that would be great Posted by: Bliss Doubt
» aha! Posted by: Bliss Doubt

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New National Radio Ad
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Posted by: ErHoff on Sep 26, 2008 3:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
New National Radio Ad:

It's September Madness on Wall Street.

For years big business has been moving back the dates on frivolous holiday decorating days like Halloween, Thanksgiving, X-Mas to where Halloween decorations go on sale September 1st.

In the past you had to wait till October for things like the Russian Revolution, or when vice-presidential candidate George Bush Senior did a deal to keep our hostages in Iran for a nice round number of 444days in exchange for selling weapons to Iran.

Now you don't have to wait till October for decorative political surprises anymore!

That's right no more waiting till October for sneaky government malevolence.

Ever since they learned how to scare you from your Constitution in September 2001; the same group that brought you Controlled Demolition of the three skyscrapers, the missile hit on pentagon accounting auditors, the now famous ad hoc Why Wait Till October Group in the Whitewash House has been cooking up some good ones to spring on you.

Now the Whitewash House brings to you Presidential Ponzi in September! That's right they steal more than $2000 from each and every child and poor working person in America and hand it over to the richest criminals in history.

Our Criminal Chimp in Resident says: Act Now! Don't wait. Don't read the fine print! Don't Read. Just be afraid America, hand over the cash now so Ponzi can continue to flourish in your economy.

Remember if you let the Wall Street Ponzi Schemers fail it will be on your conscious.

This advertisement was brought to you by your own money.

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» RE: New National Radio Ad Posted by: kellysgarden
» Now that's good advertising. I love it! Posted by: common intelligence

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No wonder their magic number is 9%
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Posted by: Karl.Ben on Sep 26, 2008 4:00 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's crazy that the democrats (9% congress) would have gone along with this with no consulation with the repubs in the hoiuse. It's also crazy, but expected that Bush couldn't lead anyone out of the basement of the whitehouse, no less the basement of economic collpase!

I guess they (the dems) figured they could steam roll right over the repubs..

Thank god someone is looking out for the nations economic well being because Bush and the democrats sure aren't!

McCains "stunt" as many like to call it really gave this a sense of urgency on the part of congress. They all probably would have left early today and taken the weekend off!

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» The real McCain Posted by: greenthumb
» FairyTales v REALITY Posted by: PointMan
» RE: FairyTales v REALITY Posted by: kahalab
» so is barney frank Posted by: undrgrndgirl
» I stand corrected! Posted by: Karl.Ben
» The reason approval is so low Posted by: truthlover

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Been waiting
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Posted by: When In Doubt on Sep 26, 2008 4:14 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This may well be the reality check the country has needed for 25 years.

It may be the end of the Greed Nation as the Sleepinmg Giant of the American People realized we have been had.

Maybe the roar of "ENOUGH" will get loud enough to drown out the fear mongering small b bush/cheney cacaphony.

No question..the future will be painful because optimism has been a false front from this tragic debacle.

Problems are easier to solve when we have few options.

This administration took care of those options.

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» The Time has Come! Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: The Time has Come! Posted by: greenPuker
» RE: Been waiting Posted by: VZEQICVA
» Time to stop waiting and act. Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: Time to stop waiting and act. Posted by: greenPuker

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CASH FOR EQUITY, DO NOT BUY WORTHLESS PAPER!
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Posted by: Peter Mackrael on Sep 26, 2008 4:42 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The US Congress is currently under pressure to quickly pass Paulson’s $700 billion bail-out proposal. Paulson's initial proposal will give the Bush administration incredible power to privatize profits of investment banks while socializing their losses!

If any company is given federal capital, the US government should receive equity in the company otherwise any massive cash infusion will merely reward those investment banks that got deepest in debt. Buying worthless paper from failing investment banks makes no sense. There is no clear method to evaluate the paper to be 'bought' and worst of all, no regulations to address the real cause or to investigate possible criminal activity. Buying this worthless paper from investment banks without writing and enforcing new trading regulations will merely encourage continued derivatives trading and increase the total US debt. If this occurs, does anyone believe that $700 billion will be enough? I expect total bail-out costs could run into the tens of trillions if foreign investment banks are included. There is no reason to bail out these irresponsible and socially harmful speculators. Let the investment banks and insurance companies that did gamble with derivatives fail as they should.

The government should not get into investment banking, but if they insist, then government ownership is the only way. This will ensure that future profits (if any) are returned to the people and that new regulations to manage derivatives trading - assuming Congress writes them - are followed. If and when these investment banks become profitable and socially responsible, they can be sold back to private investors.
Meanwhile if there truly is a shortage of capital for operations of commercial enterprises (as claimed) credit could be extended through existing commercial banks in the form of federal loans – this money should not go to the investment banks or to commercial banks that are owned by investment banks. I believe that recent legislation allowing investment banks to buy commercial banks is a serious error. It can lead to loss of confidence and a run on legitimate commercial banks - see http://www.slate.com/id/2074372/ .

In any case, I certainly do not trust Treasury Secretary Paulson and the Bush administration to administer this huge 'bail-out/buy-out'. As with the war in Iraq, I fear that most of this money will go to political allies and cronies. A separate bi-partisan committee/agency should be created to assess other alternatives. If it is agreed to buy these failing banks at their current market value, the guidelines and restrictions must be transparent and all purchase offers should be subject to review and approval by Congress.

I believe it is highly likely that conspiracy to defraud and outright fraud has occurred before and may occur during this 'rescue' plan. An independent agency should be assigned to investigate fraud/conspiracy and these investigations should begin immediately.

The current approach uses "fear of imminent financial collapse and appeals to the need for public sacrifice" combined with a rush to push a "clean" bill through a Congress distracted by “how to protect the interests of homeowners facing foreclosure”, without allowing adequate time for assessment. This reminds me of the method that President Bush used to pass the bill to authorize the invasion of Iraq.

Regarding homeowners facing mortgage default, these owners got in over their head by choice. They and their lenders chose to speculate in the housing market. If they believe that a lender defrauded them, they should initiate a law suit against the bank that gave them their mortgage. The federal government should not assume any responsibility for these mortgages. It is unfair to make responsible borrowers pay for these failed speculators.

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» AMEN! Posted by: Solar Wind

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Stupid is as stupid does
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Posted by: solrev on Sep 26, 2008 4:50 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We revolutionaries thought you progressives would be of some help, from most of the remarks, you people are just as bad as the sheeple you whine about. You are being handed what we are willing to die for and you can not see it, reactionaries do not make very good revolutionaries. There are to groups in congress fighting about a bailout, one group is the free market capitalists and the other group is willing to socialize risk. What do we do after the bailout, it is sad that you are on the side that wants the free market to decide. They own you because you are them.

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» RE: Stupid is as stupid does Posted by: BobKincaid
» RE: Stupid is as stupid does Posted by: badkitty68
» Did You Say ---> Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: Do not be so reactionary Posted by: left_libertarian
» Just plain stupid Posted by: Jest2007

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Prosecute for Treason & Bail out AmericaNs
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Posted by: Purple Girl on Sep 26, 2008 5:15 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Screw US Once Shame on YOU- Screw US twice Shame on US.
McCain slitered out of Conviction during th ekeating 5 Scandal- will we let him do it again? The Guilt is not only written all over his face - It lives and breaths in his Campaign headquaters- Davis Gramm Carly..About 19 Lobbist. Question for Davis- if you were Doing NO work for Freddie, yet getting paid is that Not Embezzlement,Fraud? If you were doing covert operations for Freddie, what role did you paly in bringing it down- Kind of like Torching your own business to get the 'insurance' money. So which Is it Davis? Ya might want to claim the Former- the latter will get up Hung for Treason, along with your current Boss- Johnny Boy, who has a long Criminal Record for High crimes.
What Congress is doing as Usual is the 'Shell Game' with our Nations (and her citizens) Futures.
KISS Boys and Girls- go to the Chinese (since we don't have even a cheap chinese Pot to piss in left) and request the Loan. But not for the Gamblers but for the AmericaN Citizens- who have proven they KNOW How to build and Stimualte an Economy. Explain that once our People get back on their feet they will once agian return to buying products - esp Chinese (We love to find a bargin- as long as it won't Kill Us).then Cuta Check to every Taxpaying Household- A loan to ourselves. Tell the public to pay their mortgages, car payments, credit cards, utlities and put away some fro a 'rainy day',BUT take a small amount of that Check and Buy some Middle Classer type 'luxury' with Cash- Computer, TV..American Made Only. this will kick up manufacturing Demands, thus Jobs.
The only System which is compatible with a Democratic, Free market Doctrine is 'Bottoms Up'.Trickle Down was proven to be nothing more than a modern day Monarchial Economic Ideology- Freidman was an ELITIST and Fundementally UNAMERICAN! Thus all those who employed his Doctrine are TRAITORS- Above & Beyond any we have Ever seen Before! Our Response and Our Punishment should reflect this Fact!
So Every CEO,CFO,COO, Boardmember and Bought & paid for Politician should be facing the Gallows- all their assets should be seized, and put back into the national Coffers. Of course then again since they had no reservations basically leading US , Our Children and Our grandchildren to the Global Auction Block- perhaps we should offer that to them. Face the Gallows, or the Auction Block for the nextfew generations- You Pick McCain,Davis, Gramm.....How much can we get for a Blonde Ex- Socialite/Heiress on the Asian Market? Ho wmuch you want to bet that Coward McCain would put Cindy on the Block, to try and save his own ass???

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The old razzle-dazzle
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Posted by: Democritus on Sep 26, 2008 5:55 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Remember that soft-shoe shuffle Richard Gere performed in "Chicago" to confuse the jury? That's what Karl Rove protégé and McCain campaign manager Steve Schmidt was doing in having McCain announce McCain's "suspension" of his campaign to deal with Wall Street's financial crisis.

What prompted it was, understandably, Obama's leaping ahead of McCain in the recent ABC poll. McCain even proposed suspending the debate because of "national emergency." Obama rightly demurred. If McCain had really been concerned with our financial mess, he would have done something about it during his long tenure in the Senate. He might even have showed up for some of the votes he's missed in the last couple of months.

Nice try, Steve, but the old "razzle-dazzle" isn't working. Good luck finding another job after November 4.

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Sad
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Posted by: GreyFoxThree on Sep 26, 2008 6:06 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Souns to me as if the entire country has gone straight to Hell in a hand basket! Pretty sad indeed. the Sheeple suffer and our leaders run around like chickens with their heads cut off. Go figure, poor leadership at its finest.

Jiff
Is your ISP Spying on you?

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Palin and McCain: Untried and Untrue
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Posted by: KeepsonTickn on Sep 26, 2008 6:08 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Couric interview shows how sadly lacking in experience or preparation Palin is. And McCain again shows his true colors with more lies and dissembling.

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Not Savvy
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Posted by: pcushniesr on Sep 26, 2008 6:17 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I admit that I am not very savvy when it comes to finances on the scale we have in this present issue, so I'm asking for an education from readers. My question is: What would be likely to happen if no bailout whatsoever took place? If everybody just sat back and let nature take its course? Thanks in advance for any info.

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» RE: Not Savvy Posted by: greenthumb

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this sucker's going down
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Posted by: taxidriver on Sep 26, 2008 6:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ah, our eloquent president. But who's the sucker going down? The economy? Bush? Everyone who voted for him? All of the above?

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You want to show disapproval...
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Posted by: ReallyBearish on Sep 26, 2008 7:12 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of this bailout BS? Make a legal protest that will send the wrath of God down their throats. Buy gold (if you can find any). That's the signal to Wall Street that the jig is up.

The COMEX has been bending over backwards to keep the price of gold down. At some point foreigners will dump the dollar for gold, and if you're holding dollars, you'll get stuck with nothing.

Of course, you can't buy gold coins from the Treasury. They just had a run on them and had to stop selling.

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» RE: You want to show disapproval... Posted by: garciamukamuka
» Stupid, stupid, stupid Posted by: ReallyBearish

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Short-changed
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Spiritgirl on Sep 26, 2008 7:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For the last 30 years both Democrats and Republicans have been bowing down and preaching about the "Free Market" as they rolled back regulations; taken to new heights over the last 7 years they have fleeced the American public with a combination of: collusion thru de-regulation, tax breaks, off-shore tax havens, lower taxes on the wealthy, Golden parachute packages, etc.!

Now that the Ponzi scheme is toppling down they have the nerve to want bail-outs! Let's call it a "Market Correction"! Let them sweat a little longer, before any deal is sealed! Congress needs to get a spine and a pair, hold these people accountable for their (Mis)actions, demand some help for homeowners facing foreclosure, and rules and regulations must be put back into place to force these people to walk the line! If they refuse - they loose!

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This article misses the point entirely
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Posted by: GuitarBill on Sep 26, 2008 7:19 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article misses the point entirely because the real evil of this proposed "bailout" is not that it helps the degenerate American ruling elite. The real evil of this "bailout" is that it will financially constrain whoever becomes the next president.

The goal of the "bailout" is not to help Wall Street; they are beyond help. The goal is to bankrupt Obama's administration before they ever take office.

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» Half truth Posted by: Karl.Ben
» The unmitigated gall. Posted by: GuitarBill
» The unmitigated gall - ouch! Posted by: Karl.Ben
» No, you fail. Posted by: GuitarBill
» Too dumb to realize... Posted by: Karl.Ben

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Bail out homeowners too not just banks!
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Posted by: garciamukamuka on Sep 26, 2008 7:22 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Solve several problems at once. Why give the money directly to the banks? Why not use the money to keep people in their homes?
1. Renegotiate bad mortgages and turn them into fixed interest affordable ones.
2. Pay the minimum to bring each loan into current good standing.

With this plan the banks do get the money but the people benefit too.

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X-POLYGAMIST WIFE in ARIZONA
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Posted by: X-POLYGAMIST WIFE on Sep 26, 2008 7:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don't give our money to CROOKS on Wall Street.

Pay individual investors back and the economy will boom!

http://www.bankingonheaven.com
BANKING ON HEAVEN . COM

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» The Criminal Empire Devours Itself Posted by: Last Chance

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TAX PAYERS ARE ALREADY PAYING TRILLIONS FOR THE WARS
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Posted by: cori on Sep 26, 2008 7:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As we are sitting on the 2nd biggiest oil deposit in the world, while oil companies are making record profits, we are paying billions if not trillions on military spending. Now Bush and until very recently McCain, who supported the war and said we have to be in Iraq for 100 years,has put a halt to negoiating a bailout that won't totally shaft the American tax payer.
Bush and McCain opposed regulation knowing full well this would lead to disaster. Now they want to add another trillion to the already exploding military budget that just pays arms manufacturers and private corporations. These people who have stolen the last 2 elections and are working hard to steal the 08 election, will spend us into more disasters and McCains track record has not been one of fiscal responsibility. If McCain gets in we can kiss Social security good bye, our education system will totally fold, leaving huge populations who will lack the tools to make wise decisions. A stupid America is one that won't protect our Democracy from the predators who want to take all of our tax dollars for them and leave congress and us out.

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Why are the Democrats in such a Mad Rush to give Bush $700 Billion?
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Posted by: US Citizen on Sep 26, 2008 7:34 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Democrats should not give any money to Bush, Cheney, Paulson, and Bernanke. This is putting the foxes in charge of the hen house and will probably
destroy the Democratic party for another 10 years.
There should be a provision to not make any decisions about the money until after January 21, 2009. Wall Street will hungrily wait until then.

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» Easy way out. Posted by: BAKslider

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What About When They Get Rid Of Paper Money?
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Posted by: loxias on Sep 26, 2008 7:37 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How long before they slide through legislation to put everything in the form of plastic?
No more than 10 years I bet.

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To Do or Not To Do...that is the question...
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Posted by: ChicagoPaul on Sep 26, 2008 7:37 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Interesting posts, so far….

So, here we are at this moment in history: This MAY be a momentous moment, or this MAY be an ordinary moment in history.

The financial structure of the United States could crumble in a week or a month (or a day), or it might not. Who knows? I guarantee you that Mr. Paulson doesn’t know. President Bush doesn’t know (trying not to be overly snide here). Senator McCain doesn’t know. Senator Obama doesn’t know. The list goes on…..

I’d also submit that I don’t know if we are on the brink of financial disaster or not either.

I would also add that YOU don’t either. Not “for sure” anyway!!

So, where does that leave us? My best guess is that we have a choice to do something or nothing. Pretty easy, really.

If we do nothing and nothing happens…KEWL!!

If we do nothing and the financial disaster actually happens, we, first of all, probably should say, “Shit, we shoulda’ done something.” Then, we’ll probably DO something.

If we do something and nothing happens, we’ll either be able to say, “Damn, it’s a good thing we did something.” Or, we will be able to say, “What a heap of crap, we shoulda’ done nothing.”

If we do something, and the financial disaster STILL happens, then we probably will say, “Well, hell, we better do even more.”

Now, I’m not even interested in WHAT we should do, only WHETHER we should do something.

(See below)

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» My Humble Suggestion: Posted by: ChicagoPaul
» Missed a ZERO Posted by: ChicagoPaul

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smells bad
[Report this comment]
Posted by: maryyooch on Sep 26, 2008 7:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don't you think this whole bail out fiasco has a bad odor to it? It reminds me of the last presidential election when, every time there was a drop in Bush's poll numbers, they would heighten the terror alerts.
Don't you think that Paulson, Bernake, et al, knew this was coming? Banks and Mortgage giants do not fail in a day, nevermind a week or month!
I do not trust a single person in the Bush administration. Just like McCains political ploy, the White House is just trying to help him along.
Sen. Dodd and Barney Frank and even Harry Reid all told the public that if McCain showed up it would just throw a wrench in the negotiations. Which it has done.
Amazing, that McCain. It truly boggles the mind how he thinks this will help his campaign. He looks more impulsive, partison and useless day by day.

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» RE: smells bad Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: smells bad Posted by: ChicagoPaul
» RE: smells bad Posted by: LeeAnnG
» RE: smells bad Posted by: ChicagoPaul

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Washington Is Ruled By Organized Crime
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Posted by: Last Chance on Sep 26, 2008 7:56 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bush used lying fear tactics to force Congress to approve his attack on Iraq. Now he's using those same lying fear tactics to steal 700 billion dollars from our taxes to cover the debts of corrupt bankers. That is a criminal enterprise and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law!

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When Ceo's fly....
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Posted by: ashbaines on Sep 26, 2008 8:07 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Where are the jumpers? I want to see em splattered on Wall Street sidewalks before I call this a catastrophe.

Until then, I"m reminded of the Colo. Springs school board members who conspired to halt bus service for the district - saying they needed to 'hit em where it hurts' to get their tax increase.

I'm sick of government conspiring to spread the misery of a few to the population at large, to enlist us to their plight.

Let's have some body splatters first - with CEO's Mudd & Syron sharing a cell with a gal named Darnell.

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Congress...take a breather. Stop Foreclosures first
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Posted by: reelectnoone on Sep 26, 2008 8:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rushing leads to errors in judgment. Slow down. Let Wall Street wait.

However! Pass emergency legislation to implement a 90 day moratorium on home foreclosures to protect Main Street until you have a workable plan.

Paul

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McCain's bold plan !
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Posted by: reelectnoone on Sep 26, 2008 8:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This was obviously a stunt by McCain. How did he think people would buy this after he himself admitted he did not know much about the economy. as but as only 1 of 100 Senators what was he going to do? He is not even on the banking committee that was working on the plan.

"I'm delighted that John is expressing himself on this issue," [Senator] Dodd said. "I have heard from Obama on numerous occasions these last couple days. I have never heard from John McCain on the issue . . . I'm just worried a little bit that sort of politicizing this problem, sort of flying in here, I'm beginning to think this is more of a rescue plan for John McCain and not a rescue plan for the economy."

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darkmark
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Posted by: darkmark on Sep 26, 2008 8:41 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
in 2004 a bill was passed to change the ratio of reserves from 1 to 12 to 1 to 40. now at over 1 to 30 and no regulators in sight we have a financial meltdown happening. congress and the senate have made changes on paulson's request for a bailout of 700 billion dollars and on oversight. its either congress's modified bailout or severe pain. not just for the banks but for every working person and their children in this country. we can prance around and be blind to the problem or make a deal and demand a trade for our 700 billion dollars. along with the bailout there should be single payer medical care and free quality public education, not just k thru 12 but k thru post graduate. that's where the real strength of this country lies, in a educated citizen, a new class of citizen.

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Let's get creative
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Posted by: Prussian on Sep 26, 2008 9:06 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The proposed buyout of financial institutions is simply immoral. It would not directly help investors; it would simply rescue speculators and money changers. Even the Bible, condemns these groups. Let’s get creative and not continue the path of mining the wealth of America to give it to the few.

We should consider the immediate establishment of a federal central bank that would instead provide the funds to rebuild our Country. Funds going into infrastructure, jobs and education, have a multiplier effect - one dollar invested becomes many. As it circulates it stimulates growth and reduces the economic burden of privatization.

We need to reinstate regulations on financial institutions and predatory corporations. This is the time to return to fair taxation where this type of greed does not flourish. Let’s return to the American Dream for everyone. Please don’t let us down.

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ANARCHY IN THE USA!!!
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Posted by: whathappened on Sep 26, 2008 9:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone?

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» Can there be peaceful anarchy? Posted by: Last Chance

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WHoo Hoo! "we don't nickle and dime you", ...
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Posted by: common intelligence on Sep 26, 2008 9:16 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yahooooooo!

Actung, actung, abandon von shipman!

One person said it eloquently.

"The whole of the Financial Committee is busy rearranging the (musical) deck chairs on the Titanic" as they try to anticiple when the music will stop.

Life boats? Sorry the ship is under supplied because "this ship is too big to sink"!

YA think? Don't these scenerios sound familiar?

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» Back To The Land! Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: Back To The Land! Posted by: EncinoM

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Bailout solution
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Posted by: Sushi on Sep 26, 2008 9:24 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How about we take the $700 billion ( they suddenly found in our pockets) subtract health care, subtract education, subtract infrastructure, then divide the rest into the population, give each citizen a check so they can pay off their mortgages! The banks would get their money (through us anyway), we could pay down our staggering debts, the CEO's can write themselves their hefty bonuses and we can go back to consuming. What's the problem?

Their way, we give the banks $700 billion, then owe the banks $700 billion? In addition, we still owe our mortgages on top of it! The banks are robbing us!

Sushi
"I need just enough money to tide me over until I need more."

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» Bailout solution ??? Posted by: Last Chance

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A Proposed Letter from the republican party
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Posted by: JohnJlws on Sep 26, 2008 9:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With a lot of friends in the republican party I thought I would offer my hand with their current problems. I offer the following letter a suggestion for them:

"Our fellow Americans:

Gosh, where to begin. we're sorry. We're sorry for the last 8 years of nonsense and crap. With the possible exception of his speech following 9-1-1 and maybe the 72 hours following we're sorry for everything that ever dribbled out of GW's or any of his Administration's mouth. We're doubly sorry for asking all those minions to get up every night on Larry and Dave and Jay and wherever else anyone would have us and lace together words and conclusions that shockingly no one questioned, but that didn't mean they had any credence as they did not.

But mostly, our fellow Americans, we're sorry for asking you to put 'McCain/Palin' signs in your yard. Can you please take them down. We're as embarrassed as all of you and we don't want to see them either. And, since we all know the Democrats have been right for about the last 5 decades would you go ahead and recycle them so maybe we can quit destroying our planet? We're sorry, we sort of got caught up in this "make all the money you can and then when you've made all the money you can take from those who don't have very much to begin with and hide this by telling them how lazy they are and how the government can't support them forever and how they should pull themselves up by their bootstraps like we all did" even though few of us did. This, we have to say, was simply an honest mistake on our parts and perhaps a little overzealous. We got caught up in the moment. Sorry.

And we're sorry for every convention trotting out the 15 black people we have in our party and putting them right where the cameras always point. We actually have 26 black people in our party, but invariably for one reason or another 11 of them can't get off work to come to the convention. We all have black friends though.

Sorry for all the mudslinging and lies, too. I guess it was around Abe Lincoln right before he went to that unfortunate play that we stopped telling the whole truth. Abe was pretty good at it, but gosh we sort of lost the whole vision, truth thing around then and just never got it back. We have a committee looking into that.

Mostly we're sorry for this candidate. We could have done better. There was a
republican in the Senate who mentioned, when we were getting all the Reagan wannabes together, that he had a really smart parrot and we thought about running Ace, that's his name, but he didn't meet the age requirement and even with the way we've dismantled the Constitution we thought the Democrats would sue us with all their lawyers and even though we control all the courts we probably couldn't win that one without having to resort to using the military to quell the revolution that would have started in California. We drew up plans, but someone at the last minute said they didn't think the idea was a good one and for the first time in his Administration GW actually listened.

We're sorry. We've decided not to run anyone this year for President. We've talked with John, given him a big bowl of applesauce and he's okay with it. Sarah's pretty upset. She said "Thanks, but no thanks." One in our party, who prefers to remain anonymous said, very loudly, "Oh, shut up." We're not sure where Sarah is, but she's not doing interviews.

We hope you'll forgive us, America. We're going to go away for a while now and rest. We'll be back though. There's another Contract for America out there somewhere. We've hired some plumbers to check in the usual places where we find our ideas. Thanks for your understanding. Good luck with this Obama thing. He seems like a pretty good guy. Is he really that tall, or does he wear heels?

The Republican Party."

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» Perfect! Posted by: LeeAnnG

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I have Never Voted For a Republican
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Posted by: Shankari46 on Sep 26, 2008 9:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
but I'm glad they are having a hissy fit. I am embarrassed and outraged that the Democrats bend over and let Bush rape the whole country. The Republican Senator from Alabama made more sense than anyone else. Why is this? We need some aggressive, honest, progressives to replace these push-over Democrats. Every post up for election needs to have a third party progressive. Enough is enough. We need some real change not business as usual.

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Thank the House Republicans!
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Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals on Sep 26, 2008 9:41 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You know you AlterNeters dont want to be billed to bailout Wall Street and the "real" Republicans are standing in the way.

Its not to late to support Nader!

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» has this been a land mark day Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals
» RE: has this been a land mark day Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals
» Ironic, isn't it? Posted by: Jeanne
» eh Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals

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Just an observation
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Bastet62 on Sep 26, 2008 10:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Funny how when it comes to war, torture, rendition, the trashing of the constitution, high crimes and misdemeanors, no health care for millions: not much dissent about those things and those that have protested against these things are marginalized, ignored, demonized, called traitors, pepper-sprayed, beaten and jailed!

BUT HEY! When it comes to MONEY - wow! The populace all of a sudden becomes relevant and cohesive enough to make the news and get the attention of those that "represent" them.

Kind of shows where America's priorities are doesn't it?

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APOCALIPSTICK NOW!
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Sep 26, 2008 10:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Please, when you're done reading all of the great articles and comments on AlterNet, have a look at what I wrote this morning on this very topic. Here's a link:

APOLALIPSTIC NOW!

Cheers!

Tom Degan

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Crisis Illusion
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Posted by: cbishopp on Sep 26, 2008 10:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A common thread in the manipulation of the public during the Bush administration has been crisis. As each crisis arises bold dramatic last minute action must be taken to protect our freedom, our safety, our economy.
As far as the news is concerned I have seen less information about the nuts and bolts of this financial crisis than I have heard the actual words "crisis", "meltdown", and "panic".
Keep in mind that destroying the dollar is a necessary step to forming a North American union. Other steps include creating an overall distrust of your government, depleting military resources, and in the end creating panic and scarcity of resources on a mass scale where the people scream for effective authoritarian control. These problems that have been created for us will force us into willing slavery.
This has been in motion for quite a while, certainly before Bush, but little Bush has been instrumental in doing the most damage.
But as I watch CNN I see constant focus on the theater of Bush's negotiations and McCain's dramatic campaign cancellation and the meltdown of the economy with a presidential debate countdown ticker in the corner and then there is a comfortable, calming commercial for the Nexus card (true story).
For those who don't know, Nexus is a cooperative program between the United States and Canada via the Canada Border Services Agency and United States Customs and Border Protection that will allow you, voluntarily, to be pre-screened for travel to our neighbors to the north (or south if you are Canadian). It was set up four years ago and began last year as part of the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative, or WHTI, which requires a passport or other official identification for all U.S. and Canadian citizens who want to travel from one country to the other.
Nexus takes WHTI a step further by pre-qualifying people who are citizens or permanent residents of either country. To qualify, a person has to submit an application, go through a registration process; and pass an Interpol criminal history check.
Small steps toward world government and big events that make it happen. Once the infrastructure is in place the proper impetus will be found to drive the public into submission.

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See What Sweden did in 1992
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Posted by: JSquercia on Sep 26, 2008 11:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sweden had a similar problem in 1992 but they MADE the banks right down their assets BEFORE they stepped in to recapitalize . There was much behind the scenes fighting but they presented a united front AND they Soved the problem . Seems like we should consider the same PROVEN approach .

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» But did anyone go to jail or was hung? Posted by: common intelligence

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here's another idea...
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Posted by: undrgrndgirl on Sep 26, 2008 1:02 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the mega-churches (church of greed)could foot this bill - ultimately they are in cahoots with washington and wall street...

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JUST RECEIVED THIS NOTION
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Posted by: TREEGUY on Sep 26, 2008 2:28 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG, and etcs. Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a We Deserve It Dividend. It is exactly the same amount proposed by President Bush for corporate America.

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+. Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up.. So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billion that equals $425,000.00.

My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a We Deserve It Dividend.

Of course, it would NOT be tax free. So let's assume a tax rate of 30%. Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes. That sends $25,500,000,000 (billions) right back to Uncle Sam. But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket. A husband and wife has $595,000.00.

What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family? Pay off your mortgage – housing crisis solved. Repay college loans – what a great boost to new grads. Put away money for college – it'll be there Safe in a bank – create money to loan to entrepreneurs. Buy a new car – buy appliances – create jobs. Invest in the market – capital drives growth. Pay for your parent's medical insurance – health care improves. Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean – or else. Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks who lost their jobs at Lehman Brothers and every other company that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.

If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it... instead of trickling out a puny $1000.00 ("vote buy") economic incentive that is being proposed by one of our candidates for President.

If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+!

As for AIG – liquidate it. Sell off its parts. Let American General go back to being American General. Sell off the real estate. Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.

Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't. Sure it's a crazy idea that can "never work." But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party! How do you spell Economic Boom? I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion We Deserve It Dividend more than I do the geniuses at AIG or in Washington DC.

And remember, this plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam. The rest gets poured into the economy. What a boom it would be.

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» RE: CHECK THE MATH Posted by: EncinoM
» I apologize Posted by: TREEGUY

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paranoid still
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Posted by: cbishopp on Sep 26, 2008 10:20 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Below is taken from an article in PC Magazine dated 9/25/08 (similar articles appear in the LA Times, the Independent, the Telegraph, etc. This new proposed British ID has no sign of the union flag or any mention of Britian printed on it.

...Britain unveiled its new biometric identity card on Thursday which the government says will be vital in fighting illegal immigration and terrorism, while critics call it an expensive attack on civil liberties.

The controversial multi-billion pound scheme, which involves one of the world's most ambitious biometric projects, will see ID cards used in Britain for the first time since they were abolished after World War Two.

Initially only foreign nationals from outside the European Economic Area will be required to have one if they come to Britain to work or study, but the scheme will be expanded to Britons and some others over the next few years.

"We all want to see our borders more secure, and human trafficking, organized immigration crime, illegal working and benefit fraud tackled," said Home Secretary Jacqui Smith.

"ID cards for foreign nationals, in locking people to one identity, will deliver in all these areas."

Despite a series of embarrassing data losses recently, including the admission that the personal details of half the population had been mislaid, the government insists that both the cards and their related databases will be secure.

But critics of the cards, which will contain personal details, fingerprints and a facial image, remain unimpressed.

Both major opposition parties have vowed to ditch cards for Britons should they win power, and with the Labour government trailing in the polls, the 4.7 billion pound national identity scheme's days may already be numbered.

"It does not matter how fancy the design of ID cards is, they remain a grotesque intrusion on the liberty of the British people," said Chris Huhne, the Liberal Democrat home affairs spokesman.

"When voting adults are forced to carry ID cards, this scheme will prove to be a laminated poll tax," he added, referring to the local charge whose massive unpopularity led to Margaret Thatcher being ousted as prime minister.

The first cards for foreign nationals will be issued in November while from next year anyone working in sensitive areas, such as airport staff, will need one at a cost of 30 pounds.

Smith said opinion polls showed the majority of the public supported the cards and that people would warm to them once they saw the advantages, allowing them to easily verify who they are and helping the authorities at the same time.

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The $700 billion ‘Bailout’ of Wall Street will have no effect on long-term global financial stabilit
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Posted by: davidhill on Sep 27, 2008 5:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The $700 billion ‘Bailout’ of Wall Street will have no effect on long-term global financial stability
Indeed, The global banking system under the dictates of the capitalist system is dire. In this respect the $700 billion bailout of Wall Street will not have any major impact in the long-term to stem the enormous problems that reside in the global financial markets. This can only be seen as a stopgap in what will become the greatest economic problem that the world has ever seen. For with the US alone having unprecedented and unsustainable household, corporate and public debt of $51.1 trillion at the end of 2007 and projected to be at least $53 trillion (equivalent to nearly the whole economic turnover of the entire world) by the end of this year, $700 billion is only small change in the whole of the global debt market at over $100 trillion (equivalent to nearly two years of global GDP). Indeed, this insurmountable and unmanageable debt in the US alone is running at an interest payment of over $2 trillion a year when all is taken into account. Therefore, the whole fundamentals of the global financial system are totally flawed and where they need radically re-engineering urgently. Consequently all that the $700 billion will do in reality is to simply bail out the bankers who caused this human disaster in the first place and no more. Unfortunately therefore the main effects of this dire problem lie ahead and where presently the taxpayer is being deceived again. For in this respect the financial world and governments are simply looking after their short-term interests and no more. For on the one side they wish to offload their debt scot-free and on the other side, they only think of the impending political elections not the people themselves.

Dr David Hill
World Innovation Foundation Charity (WIFC)
Bern, Switzerland
27th September 2008
UK Postal Address: PO Box A60, Huddersfield, HD1 1XJ
UK Contact No: 01484 537181

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McPalin
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Posted by: Jest2007 on Sep 28, 2008 3:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe McCain's campaign is one big stunt and we, the people, just haven't been told yet. Or maybe we'll end up having a beauty queen for president. That should put a nice cap on the Bush years.

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Limited payouts to CEO's of failed wall street companies
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Posted by: sicntired on Sep 28, 2008 10:40 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's the wording of the deal made today,Sunday,Sept 28,'08.I hope America is ready for the betrayal that's coming on Monday.Paulson was on 60 minutes and looked very much like the guilty coward he is.These people care nothing about joe public.The lip service paid to "main street"was all just a smoke screen laid down to cover up their avarice and panicked rush to pass this sell out bill.Remember the next time you get your tax notice.Nothing says you have to pay this bailout and if the 45% of you that have polled as opposing this bill,refuse to pay it,they're screwed.Right now it's you they want to take the screwing.

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Shadow Banking at work!
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Posted by: Paisano1 on Sep 30, 2008 8:30 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
WHO REALLY OWNS YOUR MONEY? Part One: The Depository Trust & Clearing Corporation
The DTCC controls tens of trillions of dollars in assets, but have you ever heard of them? 99% of all securities list their subsidiary CEDE as the owner - you are just the beneficiary! http://yourmortgageoryourlife.com

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