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Sex and Relationships

The Things Women Go Through to Attract Men ...

By Cheryl Saban, Huffington Post. Posted August 21, 2008.


A mind-boggling variety of torture devices have been contrived throughout history to make women more 'attractive' to men.
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Ever hear the phrase, barefoot and pregnant? Clearly it wasn't spawned from current pop culture. Though this artifact of generations past was probably meant to be endearing, the subtext behind it seems to have more to do with territory and boasting rights than terms of endearment. By keeping a woman barefoot and pregnant, a man was not only staking his claim on her as his territory, but was also bragging that his penis worked and his seeds were lively and strong.

Men have historically been territorial where their women and sex are concerned and we women have come to accept this behavior, and to a certain degree, foster it. In fact, we seem willing to jump through all kinds of hoops to attract a man.

Throughout recorded history, women have learned to take the male's particular fancies into account when seeking a mate with whom to have children. Current fashions, style and cultural rituals typically dictate how women behave. Each generation and every culture adds new moves and brings a slightly different flair to the male-female mating dance.

It's generally accepted, for example, that men like long legs and so we wear high-heeled shoes and short dresses to show them off. Why? We instinctually want to perpetuate humankind. Some studies show that women will wear shorter dresses and higher heels when ovulating -- we dress more provocatively during specific days of our menstrual cycles because we are consciously or unconsciously trying to attract a mate. Just for fun, notice what you wear between the 14th and 18th days after your period. Perhaps more telling, check out what your teenaged daughters wear on those days. Oh my -- perhaps it's a good time to discuss birth control.

Another known turn-on for men is a high, rounded, voluptuous butt. Add that to a narrow waistline, and you get the classic hourglass figure. This so-called perfect figure has a ratio of 70 percent. Such a figure -- the narrow waist, flat abdomen, large, round, easy-to-grasp fanny historically signaled 'fertility' to the male species. Women became aware of this particular male lure and went to incredible lengths to draw attention to their curves.

In the nineteenth century, women wore bustles under their skirts to accentuate the size of their hips. Was this comfortable, do you think? Hell no, but what does comfort have to do with it? Our female predecessors strapped on torturous corsets to reduce their waist size to make the distinction between waist and hip even more obvious and alluring. Women of that era cinched their waistlines to the point of damaging their rib cages -- going as far as surgically removing ribs to achieve that perfectly narrow waist.

Ohmygod. The corset squeezed their organs and restricted their oxygen intake and turned fainting into a gender-oriented pastime. According to studies on the subject, this ratio has consistently proven to grab a male's attention. So much so, in fact, that throughout history it was thought that a woman most capable of bearing children had a waist that was 70 percent smaller than her hips. Not surprisingly, the ideal waist size for a girl in the nineteenth century was one that matched her age. Could this have been a trigger for an eating disorder? Hmm. And all of this to attract a man.

Another feature of women thought to be highly attractive, is a long neck. This stunning attribute is so prized that we adorn them with jewels to show them off. Japanese Geishas painted their necks in white body paint, leaving only a small, seductively bare patch of skin showing at the nape, which at the time of Geishas was considered highly erotic, and could bring a man to his knees. It could also encourage a hefty payment.

The attraction to long necks is so pronounced in some Southern and East African tribes that girls begin to elongate their necks with silver rings as youngsters, eventually stretching the neck completely out of proportion, ultimately deforming the collarbone, and of course, the neck. These women can never take the rings off, for if removed, the elongated, deformed neck could not possibly support the weight of their heads, and their necks would break. A high price to pay for attraction.

Though we may not universally follow their lead, our culture's glossy magazine pages are filled with beautiful, young, painfully skinny models who promote skeletal thinness, body piercing, tattoos and sexy body wear -- all of which is, essentially, this generation's iteration of male bait; Beauty chasing the beast.

Though some of our current come-hither trends are quirky, when I read about rituals that women of other cultures engage in to hedge their bets in the mating game, I think we of the westernized persuasion basically have it easy. Lucky for me my guy is a leg man. I can handle high heels.

What guys need to do to attract us is a whole different conversation.

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See more stories tagged with: sex, eating disorders, beauty standards

Cheryl Saban, Ph.D., is an author and advocate for women and children. As a writer, she focuses on social issues -- predominately family, women's empowerment, and wellness for kids.

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Heterosex a ripoff for women
Posted by: Ka-bird on Aug 21, 2008 12:39 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Girls waste thousands of hours and lots of money to make themselves attractive to boys. Then they are deflowered with pain by some boy who will have an orgasm but they won't. Eventually they will marry some man who will always enjoy sex, though the women may have to fake it. If they get pregnant, they will spend many months of discomfort and then suffer pain bearing the child.
This is under IDEAL circumstances.

In the underdeveloped world, girls may be genitally mutilated, forced into marriage, impregnated without pleasure, have babies until they are physically depleted, or die in childbirth.

And that's now, in the 21st century.

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» RE: Heterosex a ripoff for women Posted by: greenlantern
» RE: Heterosex a ripoff for women Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» sorry you draw such loser guys Posted by: hurricane hugo
» RE: Heterosex a ripoff for women Posted by: Blue Heron
» Good point Posted by: wolfgangmo75
» RE: Good point Posted by: Blue Heron
» RE: Heterosex a ripoff for women Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Heterosex a ripoff for women Posted by: beautifulady2003
The ad truth is
Posted by: leerhok on Aug 21, 2008 1:38 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Things Women Go Through to Attract Men

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The Sad Truth is
Posted by: leerhok on Aug 21, 2008 1:40 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Things Women Go Through to Attract Men
mostly make them less attractive.

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was with you there until...
Posted by: maddasein on Aug 21, 2008 1:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...you brought up the promotion of body piercing and tattoos as more male bait.

I absolutely agree that A LOT of the things women do for attracting other people's (male and female) attention are seriously unhealthy, especially when it comes to the obsession over body size/weight. However, I don't feel that everything a woman does to make herself feel more beautiful has everything necessarily to do with men. Many people get tattoos, piercings, dye their hair, strap on some heels or maybe even a corset to have fun with the way they look. I mention many "people" because I am including men in this. Yes, you are correct in your analysis in what women have done in different generations and how much more extreme things are for women in underdeveloped parts of the world. I just wish you hadn't made it sound as if anyone who gets tattooed or puts on some heels are doing so because of some conscious or unconscious seeking of male attention, especially in our modern society where gender and sexuality are becoming less and less black and white. Additionally, in past eras women had more of a homogeneous look. Today we can see much diversity in how women dress and overall express themselves aesthetically. I for one, am tattooed/pierced and love putting on a tie and slacks as much as some heels and a corset (hell sometimes all in one outfit) AND I am damn sure NOT trying to attract men.

Please do not misread me and think that I am missing the point. I think this is an interesting subject and aside from my above personal objections I am glad that these types of women's issues are being brought to the table so that we may have open conversation over them.

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» RE: was with you there until... Posted by: Birdperson
Yes and no
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Aug 21, 2008 1:46 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For me: Yes on the legs, butt and curves, though with the legs it's more about being shapely than long. And definitely no on the long neck, tattoos, and body-piercing. As far as I'm concerned, that stuff is for geese, middle-aged sailors, and punk weirdos, respectively.

I'm not sure the butt thing is universal. If so, and women are always jumping through hoops to attract males, why are they always worried that their butt is big, and that things they eat will go "straight to their hips"?

As for the relationship between menstrual cycle and short dresses, that's an interesting one I'll have to watch for. Back in the 60s and 70s, wasn't there a theory that it was related to economic cycles?

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» RE: Yes and no Posted by: MyLeftFoot
Fifty years ago, my wife attracted me with offers of free sex.
Posted by: HughScott on Aug 21, 2008 2:20 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank God!

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» sexist comment alert! Posted by: wolfgangmo75
» And that's the point Posted by: GuitarBill
Ladies - How to turn me off.
Posted by: strahlungsamt on Aug 21, 2008 3:53 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have this weird sexual fetish that I find so difficult to satisfy. There is not even a support group for people like me. I am not a homosexual, a pedophile or bestiophile. I don't even have a parade I can join. Yet society thwarts my desires at every step.

I like normal natural women and I like looking at them naked with no accouterments.

Here are my leading turnoffs:
1. Plastic surgery, especially fake breasts but also face mutilation. No, Angelina Jolie didn't convince me as Helen of Troy with that mangled face of hers. No wonder the Greeks went for little boys.

2. Anorexic chic. Surprise surprise!! I am not turned on by skinny models. If I find out you barf up every meal to stay skinny, or fret over the calories in every meal, find another guy. I could never respect a woman who does this.

3. Tattoos. Tattoos are for hairy bikers, not pretty girls. They don't make you look prettier. A tattoo is permanent. If you got it because of something you believe in, I will respect you for that. If not, you come across as an idiot. Also most of today's tattoos look mass produced and are about as individual as the label "bananas" on a wooden box.

4. High heels. Why on earth are these sexy? And why does every girl in a porno flick wear them in bed? I would never let any girl wear high heels in bed. It's a personal safety issue. I want to make sweet sweet love to you, not get my eyes poked out.

Whenever I am in a public location and some girl stumbles in in high heels and tries to get attention, she comes across as a bimbo. No, I will not help her pick up her stuff. I leave that to the sex-starved morons who do.

5. Lingerie. Believe it or not, I never saw the attraction in lingerie. Again, I like a woman's natural curves and I don't want to look into my granny's underwear drawer. Besides, Victoria's Secret is overpriced trash.

6. Tan lines. Sorry but I lived in Europe too long to put up with this. It screams "Prude".


And now for some Turn Ons:

1. Brains. I went to college and got a degree. I enjoy art, music and literature and like to talk science and politics. I love a woman I can talk to on my own level.

2. Common Sense. You have some kind of goals in life and can focus on them. You don't spend excess money on fashion and you can enjoy a night out without it costing over $100. Also, if you borrow someone else's car, you bring it back without another fender-bender every time.

My point is: be natural. Be who you are. You don't have to look like Anna Kournikova. Most of all, don't follow trends. They don't impress me and just show a complete lack of imagination and intelligence.

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» RE: Ladies - How to turn me off. Posted by: greenlantern
» Tattoos... Posted by: theVRWCwhodatesLiberals
» Guitar Bill - you are wrong. Posted by: wolfgangmo75
» RE: Guitar Bill - you are wrong. Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Ladies - How to turn me off. Posted by: SereneBlue
» RE: Ladies - How to turn me off. Posted by: cherylholmes
» RE: Ladies - How to turn me off. Posted by: beautifulady2003
And so this is an issue worthy of appearing in print because....
Posted by: rugger on Aug 21, 2008 4:08 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And in other studies, water is wet.

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such ignorance
Posted by: Jabby on Aug 21, 2008 4:28 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For pete's sake, this isn't "nature," and these attributes aren't UNIVERSAL! (Or at least they weren't before global media.)

How evolutionarily smart would it be for South Sea Islanders and Inuits, for example, to prefer narrow wastes and long, slim legs? Such preferences are SOCIAL CONSTRUCTIONS.

You don't need a graduate degree to know that. Historically these fashions in taste changed over time and place (though granted with global media we might be stuck with the current set for longer than usual).

Why is Alternet publishing such slop? No more contributions from me if I see one more brainless article like this here.

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» RE: such ignorance Posted by: colocha
» RE: such ignorance Posted by: greenlantern
This Author Is A PhD?!?
Posted by: grumble-bum on Aug 21, 2008 5:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In what, Incomplete, Outdated & Pointless Blather In the Western World?

I think my favorite part is the last sentence, where she states that the various tortures men go through in the mating game are a subject most separate & to be discussed at another time. In other words, never, not when we can just slap together endless, thoroughly rehashed, skin-deep (& I might add, racially biased) regurgitations of the oppressed woman screed.

Do some women go to uncomfortable lengths to attract men/feel better about themselves? Yes, sadly, they do. I certainly don't recall insisting upon, or supporting many, if any, of those lengths. Makeup, other that minimal, accentuating touches, turns me right off. So does fake anything, high heels, & cosmetic surgery. What women fail to realize is that men just really, really, really want to be next to their beautiful, natural bodies. Tortuous trappings (largely) be damned.

This is all such a chicken-&-egg question. As the author notes, different times in human history & different cultures have seen wide variations in what makes women "beautiful", some of them absurd. Funny thing is, we always seem to end up shacking up together frequently enough to ensure another generation & a new set of unobtainable ideals. Why? Because at the end of the day, the conclusion of the mating dance, we all just need to be with someone, hopefully someone we care about beyond simply how they look in a cocktail dress.

I do find that certain body types, combined with certain attitudes, are more attractive to me than others. That's how I'm wired, & that's conversely why some women who I find attractive don't happen to feel the same way about me. That's how they're wired. There isn't much we can do about the core constructions that we bring to our socio-sexual relations. But for every man wired to go after the current feminine ideal, there are countless others who are pleased to find a special person who doesn't.

Otherwise, none of us less-than-perfect people would likely be here to debate the issue.

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Most men dont care about fashion
Posted by: mattcoa on Aug 21, 2008 5:48 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months.
-Oscar Wilde

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» YES! Posted by: wolfgangmo75
The Last Horizon Awaits Us
Posted by: Spyder on Aug 21, 2008 5:58 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The deeper women look into themselves, the more they will learn about their own sexual identities, our social mores, and our most satisfying relationships. As one of the men above said, women being themselves naturally instead of artificially can be a real turn-on to many of us. The visual ideal is mostly a corporate construct.

Feminine Sexuality & The Class System

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Not all motivations are for the Preservation of the Species
Posted by: curiousdwk on Aug 21, 2008 6:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While I will agree with the author that a lot of women will do some reckless things with their bodies to gain the attention of men, I disagree with her too-oft made false assumption that it is for the preservation of the species. Many of our reasons are for pure pleasure. And I would bet that many women want to be attractive because it makes them feel good - not so they can have more off-springs.

The Preservation of the Species argument is a cop-out appearing to be scientific when it is really an excuse not to attribute motivations to personal reasons. Shame on this PhD for using such a cop-out.

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LOL!!
Posted by: craigandrew on Aug 21, 2008 6:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and just consider, that it really should be the other way around. In nature, it is the men who have beautiful feathers and do crazy dances to attract women.

Have a nice day C:)

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» RE: LOL!! Posted by: TheNamelessCity
» RE: LOL!! Posted by: craigandrew
» And furthermore... Posted by: craigandrew
I stopped wearing heels...
Posted by: astockton on Aug 21, 2008 7:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That was years ago, and I haven't had a backache since.

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This is a PhD?
Posted by: ankhet on Aug 21, 2008 7:19 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The content is old, old, old and inadequately analyzed, even wrong in places. The writing is at a high school level.

Girl, you better spend less on high heels and more on books by real feminist authors.

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» RE: This is a PhD? Posted by: redavenger
» RE: This is a PhD? Posted by: ankhet
forgot to mention...
Posted by: vasumurti on Aug 21, 2008 7:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...women shave their legs, to make themselves more attractive to the opposite sex. I don't know if this is a "universal" phenomenon: many European women, for example, don't shave their legs.

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» RE: forgot to mention... Posted by: rugger
Women have a choice but make bad ones
Posted by: nfamous on Aug 21, 2008 7:32 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Women are no longer forced to adopt the narrow utopian view of the female body that men have been fed by the media. In fact if you want a relationship to last you should adorn yourself physically as little as possible. I never thought it was possible but I did fall in love with an overweight women once after we had been friends for a few years. It didn't last and it ruined the friendship but it did happen.

I'm not sure what the target of the angst from women here is. Actually I'm sure it's men....all men but this assumes that all men are alike, an idea that feminists and pseudo-feminists have been parroting for decades. I am not like most men. My longest relationships have been with women I had sex with on the first night. I don't see much value in waiting. That makes it seem like the woman is more desirable than the man, an outright lie.

Women like sex more than men so perhaps this is why women go to such extremes to attract us? the lure of the orgasm. Men can't have multiple simultaneous orgasms so nature shorted us on that deal. What I'm saying is that men are taught to behave as though women have nothing to offer but sex. Guess what happens then? Most women start to believe the same thing so what happens then? Women focus only on the outside and completely ignore the inside.

Most women these days are so boring. They are completely absorbed by pop culture to a ridiculous extent. At the same time women have freedom to do what they want when they want with whom they want and they do. Women cheat more than men do now. It seems like whatever happens in society women as a whole always make the wrong decisions. Women should reject these images of them as Barbie Dolls but they go right out and buy breast implants, makeup, new clothes, stockings, shoes, lip implants, fake hair, fake nails, etc. The list is ginormous and all for what? So a man can see you as an object. How sad.

I don't want to hear any more excuses about how women are targeted by corporations more as consumers. I'm sure that's true because many women do have low self-esteem but getting yourself into debt as an overconsumer won't help you find a mater either. Women are equal to men in every way except physical strength and they need to start acting like it and not expecting to be treated special because they have a hormone imbalance or because of how white men have created a sexist patriarchal society. I'm a black man and I have to deal with most people I meet initially thinking I'm dumb, criminal and oversexed. Actually the last one is true but it has nothing to do with my skin color.

Women need to stop blaming men at large for their oppression. Things have gotten much better for women of all races. Black women now make much more money than black men, a telling statistic. If women want to vent their outrage they should join a civic organization that lobbies to combat ongoing sexism in the media. It would be a worthwhile cause but don't expect to change the world. Humans change slow and the media is a nonstop barage of sexism, racism and everything else that makes America what it is today. That's not a compliment either.

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You never know
Posted by: solrev on Aug 21, 2008 7:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I guess everything in this article is true or the American marketing machine has been wasting a bunch off bucks. However, I had a girl friend my freshman year in college and she was a naturally really pretty girl. One day some friends called and said come down to a bar and play some bridge, a common Friday afternoon activity. I ask her to come with me, she said, I have to go put on my nylons. I told her, she looked so good none of the dudes was going to notice whether she was wearing nylons. Her reply, there will be other girls there and they will notice, so I had to wait for her. She was not dressing to attract a mate, was she dressing to fend off competition?

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Don't Forget Dieting
Posted by: Gravitas on Aug 21, 2008 7:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We actually have a norm in our society that says do whatever it takes to be thin. In high school I bought into this. I lived for 2 years under 1000 calories a day, but could still never get very thin. I was actually told that is no excuse. Then I should cut my calories to 800 or even 500. And exercise 2 or 3 hours a day. Whatever it takes. People just don't get Mother Nature designed some women naturally plumb and it takes an extrodinary effort to become thin.

I thank God I freed myself from the brainwash. Now, if people give me attitude that I am not sacrificing enough to please them, I ask them point blank what are they doing to meet my standards in other things? Have they given up their car? (I have!) Can they turn off their t.v.'s and improve their minds? I always find something. They are shocked, but it is no different. And I think I am much more comfortable getting older free of the idea my self worth depends on a cultural beauty ideal!

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» Don't Forget Your Diet Posted by: Birdperson
implants anyone?
Posted by: cyr3n on Aug 21, 2008 8:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
surprisingly missing from the list..
- breast implants

Isnt it funny how the male-dominated baseball profession has this huge scandal about performance enhancing drugs.. and yet.. no one says a peep about women going under the knife to be models.

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For a good laugh, go to awfulplasticsurgery.com ;.)
Posted by: stellabloo on Aug 21, 2008 8:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well, this is just dumb timing. My point is that physical fitness will never go out of style. Go to your tv right now and watch the olympics - are these girls not beautiful? ... and without makeup, high heels or breast implants? Do they look like dateless wonders to you?

And for us 'more mature women', it is possible to take ten years off your age without surgery.
Do it for yourself, because when you get to be my age I promise - you will never regret all the butts you didn't hack in the bar ;.)

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Men go to war and die to attract women
Posted by: janvdb on Aug 21, 2008 8:27 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Which is just as stupid, destructive and mindless as all this nonsense women do, except innocent babies die, farm animals have gasoline poured over them and they are burned alive, people are tortured, the riches of the earth are consumed, then blown up and burned to huge piles of toxic garbage . . .

You get the point.

High heels and bound feet -- stupid but at least not destructive to the entire human race and other species as well.

Jan VanDenBerg

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» Maribelle: Jan's not... Posted by: morticia
Pesky wolverine
Posted by: Pesky wolverine on Aug 21, 2008 8:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Addressing only heterosexual relationships:

What of women competing with women to attract a man? Of men competing with men for the attention of women? What is the message within the message of "personal adornnment"? To what degree are we manpulated to literally buy into a complex multibillion business of personal appearance and possessions (to convey what)? So is there truth in advertising (in what we wear, how we appear, what we seem to own...)?

What seems ignored too often is that dynamic evolutionary strategies exist for both women and men to enhance their reproductive success. These strategies often involve "asymmetries" (favoring one over the other). Is it a valid contention that until recently men, rarely women, have controlled access to resources with a spectrum of personal, social and political ramfications?

Another example of an asymmetry is revealed in the simplistic statement that a woman always knows the child is "hers" whereas (until DNA tests) her spouse or partner remained unsure (what was the recent percentage of children not of the wife's husband-15% or so?).

Would one agree that until a man can give birth to "his" child, he needs a partner (spouse) to ensure his/their mutual reproductive success. Similarly, is it not wise for the woman to select a man who has the qualities to help ensure her success (with the risk of false advertising by both).

Are women willing to acknowledge their active role in sexual selection or do we simply blame men for it all and let it go at that?

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Maybe if men would be given more freedom to where what they want and not be PERSECUTED,
Posted by: jwverez on Aug 21, 2008 8:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
they'd actually understand women some more. Sure, men cannot be pregnant. Now, I may not be one of those guys who chooses to wear clothes designed for women but I do believe in equal rights and opportunities. That said, when women can wear just about everything men can wear, the reverse ought to hold. If women shave their legs and go out in shorts, they're considered "sexy" but if men do it, they're frowned upon as "gay" ! And what about tranvestites? There doesn't seem to be any problem with transvestite women but somehow transvestite men are viewed as moral "threats" to society. I see nothing perverse about men and women dressing up the way each of them chooses to. However, what's really perverse is when women are asked to pick between a macho rapist and a transvestite male, 9 out of 10 pick the former ! Talk about picking an abuser over one who can most likely show true love and understanding !

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Hmmm...
Posted by: MelKnee on Aug 21, 2008 9:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I attracted my man (husband) with my intellect and wit. If a woman is looking for a meaningful relationship, I think she needs to rely on more than high heels and short skirts. If she's looking for some fun, more power to the skimpy clothes.

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» RE: Hmmm... Posted by: wolfgangmo75
A Passionate Plea
Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com on Aug 21, 2008 10:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Listen, ladies; I'm not here to scold you, but you don't have to go to extremes to attract me. All I ask is consider the consequences of doing damage to your precious bodies. I think it's awfully hard to wear high-heeled shoes (I know I can't wear those) and to become anorexic just to get a man.
Nor do I ask you to be "barefoot and pregnant." And for the record, I'm a man who thinks highly of women and I don't want you to change a thing to your appearance.
Don't be fooled by the radio, TV, or magazines telling women how they should be. That's a fantasy world. That's pressure. What's the routine? Get up, apply make-up, then go out and face the world. Sometimes you wear too much make-up or wear too much perfume; and in a elevator the scent lingers. Then at home wash the stuff off. Then repeat it the next day. (Adam Ant: "Put on a little make-up, make-up; make sure they get your good side, good side.")
There's no need to spend gazillions of dollars on "beauty" products or get liposuctions or silicone implants. Many of you are beautiful to me, regardless of makeup or your body type. But then again, we men have our issues, too. We can be vain, too. We undertake to what could be de facto "standards" of male beauty. We buy those gray hair removal products and assorted body fragrances (AXE, for example) because we might go from a roomful of sweaty males at the gym to a roomful of women at a nightclub, work, or at school.
I'm concerned about society putting so much coaction onto women; for if they don't buy Cover Girl products or aren't wearing Apple Blossom jeans or aren't hip or mimic a celebrity they can't get a guy. No matter what women do, they can't get no satisfaction just by being women. There's no written edict saying you have to subscribe to someone else's requirements for beauty.
This is my passionate plea. Just be yourselves and you will be alright. In sum, we have choices and it's your life, so do what you want.

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» RE: A Passionate Plea Posted by: Bonita
Womens Track & Field, Soccer, etc
Posted by: Tat106 on Aug 21, 2008 10:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Seeing these women, run, shoot & jump and straight up compete, is what makes them attractive to me. Yeah, you may see some hair extensions, long nails and some necklaces but it's stripped down beauty coupled with athletic prowess. To me that spells F-I-N-E.

Folks need to stop blaming guys for high heels and pantyhose. Mahnolo Blanik didn't do this to you. Put down that latte, get out on that field and start kicking the ball around or start running laps.

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I Don't Need High Maintenance Barbie Dolls
Posted by: Libertine on Aug 21, 2008 10:41 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I like women. I like them in all sizes and shapes and I like them just as they are without a lot of artificial embellishments.

I like women who are sufficiently confident and laid-back enough to take on the world with a minimum of embellishment.

Being sexy and attractive is an attitude -- it's not high heels, makeup, fancy hairstyles, and so on. A woman who needs these things in order to feel confident and attractive is missing the boat, in my opinion. I think of women like Tammy Faye Bakker, who once said she didn't even go to bed without makeup, which I think is kind of sad.

A woman who is truly sexy will be sexy no matter what she wears because it's her attitude and bearing that makes her so, not her adornments.

High maintenance types who spend large amounts of time on their hair, makeup, clothes, and going to the gym strike me as being excessively self-absorbed, which isn't all that sexy of a personality trait. A woman who jumps out of the shower and pulls on a clean t shirt and jeans and runs a comb through her hair and is ready to go will always attract me over the "don't muss my hair or kiss me with makeup on" types, hands down.

Of course, if a woman wants to do the Barbie doll routine, that's her right, but I'll pass her up for one of her less flashy, down-to-earth sisters every time. She'll be a lot more fun to be around in most cases.

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» damnit, you stole my post! Posted by: hurricane hugo
876
Posted by: 876 on Aug 21, 2008 10:48 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why do you assert that women in underdeveloped parts of the world go to more extreme lengths? Is this your American arrogance rearing its ugly head? What could be more extreme than surgically implanting foreign objects into various parts of your body, injecting deadly poisons into your face, waxing the hairs from even the orifices of your body and parading nearly nude in public in garments made only of string? Do you Americans have to delude yourselves into believing that somewhere in the “third world” some oppressed ninny is doing worse to make your own insanity and desperation tolerable to yourselves?

In the west the bizarre mental illnesses of European women amounts to a phenomenon. If black males, for example, displayed the bizarre array of mental illnesses that white women do it would be on the cover of Newsweek every week. Shooting husbands, drowning their kids, vomiting, starving, cutting, sex with school children, running away from home at an advanced age and filing false police reports creating a national issue etc. Yeah you people aren’t extreme at all.

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» RE: 876 Posted by: 6399
See the world and feel it too!
Posted by: maxsmart on Aug 21, 2008 10:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yeah, and men go to war to have sex. In fact war is a form of rape plain and simple. The poor men get to face death but then they also get to rape and plunder a country and sometimes their women. When flying the flag and glorifying war it may pay to think about this. And with bases all around the world we have a big selection of various women.
Those uniforms and medal are very alluring. It is said the SS were perfect gentlemen during the day when the women were watching and perhaps perfect demons at night when no one was looking.
We need to think about going beyond the hereditary and genetic urge to war and the war of the sexes. Because if as a species we can't learn how to use our minds for something other than war and hatred and dehumanization we may not survive as species with a problematic mental faculty.

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For a man to attract a woman, the steps are much simpler:
Posted by: MD1 on Aug 21, 2008 11:22 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. Be tall

and...

2. Be conventionally "handsome"

or...

3. Have money (and lots of it)

even better...

4. Have part 1 and part 3

or else...

5. Forget about attracting a woman, dating, relationships, marriage, etc.

NOTE: A deficit of part 1 (not being tall) can ONLY be countered by a massive infusion of part 3, barring that, see part 5.

And, I'm sure I'll be flamed mercilessly, but these ARE the facts and everyone, while they may not admit it, knows it to be true!

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» Some life forms have ironic sex lives Posted by: MartianBachelor
» Equality? Posted by: MartianBachelor
» Tall Posted by: kepstein7777
» RE: Tall Posted by: MartianBachelor
Generalizations
Posted by: Karina on Aug 21, 2008 12:14 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is possible for an intelligent woman to simply like high heels and makeup without being a vacuous Barbie doll. Some of us enjoy our pretty shoes and shaved legs and wide womanly hips, and it has nothing to do with men at all.

Some of us could care less what money a man makes or the kind of vehicle he drives. Contrary to an earlier comment, it is the man who tells me within 5 minutes what kind of car he has and how much money he makes. That instantly indicates to me that he is the one who needs external trappings to sell himself.
But I must be an anomaly.

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How sad the stereotype continues
Posted by: angelmom1 on Aug 21, 2008 12:28 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can honestly say that I followed the routine set forth to catch a man, and the marriage ended in bitter disaster. My second marriage came about completely differently, seeing me sans all the usual 'attractants' he was drawn by my natural 'beauty' while I played outside with my kids. The sad part is I tried to influence my girls to be more natural and more themselves, but the media, peer pressure, and early exposure of mom's 'stupidity' of beauty, was too much. I'm now trying to have a more positive influence on my granddaughters. I don't give gifts that push the media stereotypes instead I try to encourage their individual talents and their brains. I realized that in order for them to become strong, lovely, smart women, they need to know they are strong, lovely, smart young ladies. They don't need anything to complete them or make them whole, God gave them everything they need and they are complete already. As the older ones begin to come to the age where boys and girls notice each other, I'm encouraged by what I see in them. They look at boys that see their inner beauty and self assurance, and they honestly don't realize how beautiful they are physically. But those young boys sure do.

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» RE: Bingo! Posted by: Crazy H
RE: I too am an anomoly. One promoted against by the media.
Posted by: daniel347x on Aug 24, 2008 2:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I feel sorry for women and to a lesser extent men who are pressured from childhood to fit certain narrow views of what it desirable.

May I ask why "to a lesser extent"?

I suspect you intended to say "I feel sorry for those women who are pressured from childhood (and men, who are pressured to a lesser extent) to fit certain narrow views of what it desirable."

Or do you in fact mean that you are sorry to a lesser extent for men who are victimized to an equal extent as women in this way?

Dan.

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Free To Be.... Myself!
Posted by: Naomi on Aug 21, 2008 3:36 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I feel like women do go overboard catering to contrived images of beauty in order to feel attractive....

BUT...

You know what? I enjoy wearing high heels some times. I like to show off my *assets*. I like shaving my legs - and any other hair south of my eyebrows. Corsets make me feel so sexy I could seduce an entire city. That doesn't mean I wear one every day.

I like feeling sensual, sexy and attractive - and I love SEX! Call me a slut, I DON'T CARE!

Freedom, after all, is the ability to be yourself - to explore your ambitions, your goals and desires without getting crap from other people who want to impose their own values upon others. I work hard to be healthy and happy in all facets of my life. I just wish people would stop telling me what they think I should or should not wear, who I should have a relationship with, or how that relationship should look.

I don't want to hear it. Let me be free!

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» RE: Feminine hygiene products? Posted by: ranchero42
Love is wrong, and girls are FUCKIN EVIL !!
Posted by: marxistsocialist on Aug 21, 2008 7:42 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Love is wrong, and girls are FUCKIN EVIL !!

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CommonDreamer
Posted by: CommonDreamer on Aug 21, 2008 9:15 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can't think of anything worse...than FGM.......this is at the very top of the horror scale. And what is even worse - is that it is the women who perpetuate and insist upon FGM - doing this to their own sex - their own daughters...brainwashed in the extreme by fanaticism, suspicion, societal misconceptions and the like. And sometimes the men are more open than the women about getting rid of this horrifying practice.

Did you know...in at least one African country it is considered bad form for women to go to the bathroom during daylight hours? Can you imagine...no, I really cannot imagine the cruelty of man because it is beyond the imagination, as these unneccessary and insane practices show.

The others...high heels and the like....pale in comparison.

I still miss the hippies (that's my era). Natural was good enough for them. I liked that. The yuppies hijacked what they liked of hippie life (the clothes, the ecological, the natural foods)...but they forgot about the best things - hippie values. Yep, that's right - you read that correctly. We need to return to their sensible values - not money worship and so on. These values worked for humanity a lot better than the ones we have now for the most part. It was about natural beauty and accepting who one is...peace and love and all the important stuff....but now we have Pam Anderson and Maxim magazine as some kind of "standard". Help. Women, don't fall for it.

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Carnegie, Mellon, Saban
Posted by: CV on Aug 21, 2008 11:17 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I recognize that the Sabans have given many millions of dollars to "causes" - as did the Mellons, the Carnegies, the Rockefellers - and I am sure that invitations to their events are much sought. And it bothers me that I am about to say what I will say, because the "causes" they support are those I care about as well.

But here is a story I remember about Haim Saban which is all too close to the business behavior of the storied robber barons:

A woman who worked in the finance department of Fox Family Worldwide related a tale to me of her first months with that company- which was then run by Haim Saban. She said that, being an eager new employee, the first thing she did was review all of the agreements between FFW and the various people providing content for their shows to them. Then she prepared the proper checks and reports - whatever they're called when a company has a contract for distribution or licensing - and delivered the package to Haim Saban's office. She said she thought the "boss" would be pleased by her diligence. Instead, she got a call from him in which he basically said "what the F#!*$ are you doing?" She told him she was being diligent about fulfilling the terms of the various agreements. And he told her "if they don't ask, they don't get." Thereafter, she was significantly less diligent.

This meant that those people would either have to ask for reports and checks or they wouldn't get paid. And there was a big process they had to follow to challenge the reports. The woman felt bad, but she kept her job - and got a raise for following orders so well.

I've never forgotten her story, because it resonates so with the stories of others who made their fortunes by cheating others while developing reputations as benefactors. Carnegie built Museums and libraries while fighting unions. I'm sure thousands of AlterNet readers can add similar stories.

I have never come to understand how a human being can cheat one group of other human beings and take a portion of the dollars thus "saved" and give it to another group of beings in order to "gather glory."

These things leave me at a loss. Does it buy prestige, glamour, access to the rich & powerful? Are those who get cheated insignificant?

And I do wonder about whether the "rich and famous" ever experience guilt.

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Women ever wanted to attract me? Promise me alone with me in jungle 500 miles from other humans.
Posted by: Nightstallion on Aug 22, 2008 1:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And believe me NO WOMAN that exists is going to be going for that. It is said trust is a mutual respect, good then come to the jungle with me. You say men don't want the responsibility of being with children. Proove it come into the middle of the Patagonian Outback with me. Put up or shut up. Lets make babies with the rest of the critters.

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What Women Do To Impress Other Women
Posted by: FoonTheElder on Aug 22, 2008 9:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most of what I see are women who are trying to one-up other women. They are more often trying to impress other women by having 'the look' and getting 'the man' so that they look superior in the eyes of other women.

Women need to quit competing with themselves just to feed their egos. Women are often their own worst enemies. They complain about their situation and continue to do the things that causes the situation in the first place.

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Sexual Dynamics of Lust in Men Who Rape
Posted by: Elurby on Aug 22, 2008 11:15 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
#######
#######

Read my essay about
what drives men to
lust after women,
and attempt to put
them in bondage
(( IT'S MOTHER
NATURE, FOLKS )):

©1987

Sexual Dynamics of Lust in Men Who Rape

- why sexual aggression in males must never be about sex but violence -

Men have about 12 to 16 times more production of the HORMONE for sexual interest and physical aggression than women produce: TESTOSTERONE.

It's a well-established scientific fact that men's sexual aggression may be visually triggered by, for example, a female's sexually provocative dress (or behavior), such as wearing a low-cut blouse or miniskirt (or acting out sexually suggestive poses).

That sexual response in men is not voluntary but autonomic; that is, for example, teen-age boys' erection-response to the sight of pornography is not voluntarily but involuntarily produced in him.

As Natural to Him as His Beating Heart

It is his NATURE to be sexually aroused at the sight of a female body, if his sexual orientation is normal (homosexuality is not a normal sexual response for boys who have successfully passed beyond that “I’m curious” stage of sexual experimentation during puberty—that time of uncertainty when a boy/girl may act out homosexual behavior but, then, becomes heterosexual as he/she matures).

Some males’ testosterone production is so high that they can be driven to rape, as that part of the brain where sexual interest and aggression originates - called the "reptilian" or "old" brain – can pretty much shut down the higher, rational, THINKING brain—resulting from a concomitant sex-drive phenomenon - a scientifically established phenomenon - that when a boy’s/man’s penis is engorged, he suffers diminished mental capacity because of the much-reduced blood flow to the higher brain; that is, he can't THINK clearly when he's sexually aroused, and which diminished mental capacity makes him ask himself, after his normal mental faculties have returned: "What in hell was I thinking?" just after his sexual impulse has been acted out upon some unwilling female—or after he has masturbated away his body’s sexual tension.

Add to the above NATURAL facts about males’ sexual mechanics a very low IQ, and you have a very dangerous teen-age boy or adult man whenever he’s exposed to provocatively dressed (or behaviorally provocative) females.

So, while on feminism's march towards a perfect - but unachievable - equality between men and women, feminists have had to DENY at all costs (particularly at the cost of the safety of females), the above NATURAL facts, so that any male's sexual aggression against a female is strictly attributed to some penchant for VIOLENCE on his part—not to be attributed in any way - ever! - to NATURE and a females sexually provocative dress and/or provocative behavior.

Sex-Based Power and Politics in Feminism

The underlying purpose of feminists’ denial is both power and politics, as the former allows women to feel powerful in their sexual control of men while the latter is used to denigrate masculinity in the claim that men lack “civility,” which, of course, only women may define and apply to the benefit of society, and which “thinking” on their part results in this pervasive view about rape throughout this feminism-directed criminal justice system: “Rape is never about sex but violence,” as if NATURAL LAWS governing male’s sexuality were mere myth, and feminists’ defense-against-men claim were a universal and irrefutable truth.

-Founders’ America

-truncated essay-


#######
#######

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» that explains the pervs Posted by: YogiBear
I find the whole "butt thing" amusing
Posted by: Kym525 on Aug 22, 2008 12:00 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Black women have always had round and voluptuous "assets" that were thought of by eurocentrists as a symbol of our "animalistic natures". Isn't there some loser pseudo-scientist who tried to link black people's physicality to being less intelligent? What's even more amusing is that there's a lot of less gifted women strapping themselves into fanny panties, butt-plumping jeans and other assorted items in vain attempts to have what nature has given to women of color--in spite of the continuing media fixation on white standards of beauty. Go figure. It would nice if feminists actually addressed this glaring inequality.

Also, I really wish writers like this would just stop generalizing about women in this way. There are just as many women who get piercings and tattoos simply because THEY LIKE THEM--and NO, they are not lesbians! The artwork may have a deeper meaning, like a milestone. I'm a fan of corsets, especially in the specialized skills that go into actually making them. When I wear one, I feel like I create my own fashion ideal not based on what the rest of society thinks is hip or cool but on what is unique and rare.

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Something
Posted by: Britney1990 on Aug 22, 2008 3:39 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm a lesbian and I love fashion i.e. heels, skirts etc. However, I have no interest in attracting men at all. It takes effort to attract other women as well. Its doubtful though that there is much research done on this.

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Changing the mating ritual
Posted by: Andrew_S on Aug 24, 2008 8:39 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As bureacrats and our more male brain attired physical females have attested, changing the mating ritual is a social imperitive. We can assume the deluge of pro female positions no longer requires the presence of males. Which ultimately is I am to assume a good thing, extending the controlled consumer experience in shopping for not only the females restricted contribution to the gene pool, but the correct type. Lets all celebrate the new world and feminist thinking. I believe this argument and position was used to justify many malfeasant outcomes, as well as murder. Strange thing though, we don't see this female position taken to the body shop or beauty shows, nor the fashion trendsetters who ply their wares up and down cattle runs. Nor the boycoting of shaved armpits, time for the introduction of uniform corporate grey sackclothes. You go fruitcakes.

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The Basics
Posted by: Birdperson on Aug 24, 2008 10:35 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Men desire woman. Woman want the desire of men.

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Barefoot & Pregnant
Posted by: OleManRiver on Aug 24, 2008 9:10 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
On my paternal side, going back to 1702 on this side of the Atlantic, until the 20th Century they were all dirt farmers who tended to have large families so when the parents got too old to farm the kids could do it for them and take care of them in their dotage. What became the United States back then ws enabling Western expansionism so if there were too many kids they could always move west into Kentucky, for example, from Virginia and South Carolina, thence to Indiana circa 1809, thence westward nearly forever...until the late 19th and early 20th Century, when the landstarved Europeans flooded the U.S. with new "immigrants." By the mid-20th Century, family size started dropping for two primary reasons: the land had run out (we discovered the Pacific Ocean), and gas-powered vehicles had started to replace man and horse and ox in the field.

The article that initiated this thread is unfortunately a product of Media historical ignorance or disregard of the above.

I do not want a woman with shaved armpits or shaved legs. These are Media-driven perversions. They are Capitalism made personal. The best sex I ever had was with a wife who was carrying my child at the time. The psycho-chemistry of it was completely different from all other sexual experiences, and perhaps goes far to suggest the profundity of Biblical pronouncements. And I am an Empiricist.

Related to this is the issue of SMELL. Our language falls short on this issue. When asked, "How do you smell?" you are immediately confronted by a linguistic anomoly. How do Iraqui's, who cannot afford "DEODERANT," SMELL. Bad or Badly? Here, your language begins to digress into meaningless gibberish.

Why would a man want to shave his beard other than for a Social Purpose? Why did the Jews impose one of the most barbaric sins of Humanity. What are the costs of consciousness? I know what I want in a woman, and she is not an American idiot. She might well be Iranian and highly intellectual. And I do not really care if she has high hips.

Sick unto Death, I am

OleManRiver

-30-

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Ordinary women can be quite attractive if...
Posted by: craighorowitz on Aug 25, 2008 3:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ordinary women, very "Plain Jane" gals can be extremely attractive IF THEY JUST GOT INTO SHAPE. With the omnipresence of obese and overweight Americans, the Plain Janes and Plain Joes too, could have their revenge on those highschool beauty queens and jocks that have lost it to blubber. Run. RUN. That is the real ticket to a good body and all this artificial beauty enhancement would be unnecessary.

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Thanks, MOTO
Posted by: theshadowknows on Aug 25, 2008 10:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wow, women and men are attracted to each other and will go to lengths to appeal to one another. Next you'll be telling us that the sun rises in the east and that the earth revolves around it..... great reporting!!

This stuff is just worthless

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