COMMENTS: 325
The Christian Right's Slick Campaign to Make Abstinence Seem Trendy
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But after a decade of the Bush administration pouring millions of taxpayer dollars into abstinence education programs, only to see them fail, that's exactly what's happening.
Study after study has shown that those schooled in abstinence rhetoric are just as sexually active as those who aren't, leaving the right wing with virtually no credibility on the subject. Now, conservatives have to be a little savvier if they want to lie about condoms' effectiveness against sexually transmitted infections, make bogus claims about a link between abortion and breast cancer, or manipulate teens into thinking that premarital sex is damaging to one's self-worth. That's why conservative ideologues have taken abstinence-only discourse outside of the classroom and are trying to woo students through a different strategy: by making abstinence the teen trend of the year.
To boost the no-sex-'til-marriage cool factor, conservatives are co-opting everything from teen magazines to fashion to comedy routines. But behind the trendy talk are the same shame-inducing tactics and medical misinformation that could potentially put teens' self-esteem, health and lives in danger.
Abstinence Chic
The 2008-2009 edition cover of J4G (Just 4 Girls/Just 4 Guys) magazine features a close-up of a smiling girl with a fashionable fur-collared sweater, surrounded by brightly colored headlines like "The Inside Scoop on Guys!" This is a pretty familiar image for teens -- no different than what you'd likely see on the cover of Seventeen or YM. But what a young reader may not know is that J4G's "Inside Scoops on Guys" is really a lesson on dressing modestly. The feature tells the young reader that "guys are visual, so when a girl is dressing to show off (wearing tight pants, low-cut shirts, etc.), it is hard for guys because they are stimulated by what they see."
The piece continues its urge to readers: "(S)tart respecting yourself and your guy friends by dressing modestly" -- equating "respect" with wearing more -- and placing all responsibility on girls to tame the wild beast of young men's sexual desires. The diatribe ends with a suggested clothing Web site so female readers can be fashionable and "still be modest."
A project of the Human Life Alliance, J4G is given out to middle and high school students across the country in an effort to present "the importance of abstinence until marriage." The HLA proudly describes the magazine as "cutting edge," contending on its Web site, "The colorful graphics will catch their attention, and the thought-provoking stories and facts on the inside will challenge them to change the way they think about sex outside of marriage."
The magazine's Q&A advice column features Dr. Mary Paquette, who says birth control causes not only weight gain, acne and depression, but abortion. The same goes for emergency contraception. A 16-year-old pregnant girl seeking advice from the doctor is given all of her options, but with an obvious slant: Dr. Paquette describes parenting and adoption as being "selfless," and abortion as "often thought of as a quick fix." She then contends that abortion is a "painful option" and continues: "Women have described it to me as the most awful thing they have ever been through. Women often block out the memory of it and regret having aborted their baby. Not only do these women have lives haunted by their abortion, but they also have an increased risk of infertility, miscarriage and premature babies. There is also a risk of breast cancer in women who have an abortion. Trying to hide your pregnancy with abortion only leaves you alone to cope with all the depression, pain and regret that follow."
Coming from a doctor, teens are likely too see this as a reliable and accurate source of information, despite the fact that all of these "risks" have been disproved by numerous studies, including the National Cancer Institute's findings in 2003 that abortion is not linked to breast cancer. The magazine fails to inform its readers that Paquette works at AALFA Family Clinic in Minnesota, which identifies itself as a pro-life Christian clinic. Not surprisingly, the clinic does not provide birth control or emergency contraception.
When you flip J4G to the opposite end of the magazine, you'll find "Just for Guys" -- the opposite end of the magazine's gendered spectrum. While the girls are fed messages about modesty and respect amid pink designs and trendy fashion tips, the boys are told to "be a man" -- the mantra juxtaposed against images of sports and pretty girls. One feature article titled "Why Wait?" comes with an epitomized image of teen masculinity: three buff, attractive young studs flexing their arms with dirt smeared on their faces and shirts. The article conveniently matches the picture: It's a story of the author's road from abstinence to a loving marriage, all the while using war as a metaphor for young men's struggle to want to have premarital sex, and urging them to "fight the 'dragon' of sexual temptation while their ladies watch in wonder and admiration."
The other pages of "Just for Guys" include many of the same scare tactics you find in "Just for Girls:" discussing the "dangers" of birth control, incorrectly linking abortion to health risks in both sexes, and downplaying the effectiveness of condoms.
What is dangerous about J4G is that it offers a layer of lies to the young and impressionable; not only are the magazine's staff and publisher manipulating teens by packaging fear and shame-inducing rhetoric in trendy teen wrapping, but that rhetoric is trumpeting medical inaccuracies and deceptive advertisements.
And J4G isn't the only teen zine like this reaching young people's hands. Revolve, a Biblezine made to look like Seventeen, tells girls who want to ask a boy out that it's not appropriate because, "God made guys to be the leaders. That means that they lead in relationships." Jen Magazine, a publication for Morman teen girls, is filled with tips on how to live and dress modestly -- for example, how to wear two pairs of jeans or a bodysuit under your clothes to make sure not a hint of skin is showing where it shouldn't be -- like your shoulders.
The Human Life Alliance has distributed over 150,000 copies of its third edition of J4G for 2008-2009, including a reprint. They've dispensed over 450,000 copies total of J4G since the release of its first edition in 2004, spreading the word widely across the nation to schools, church youth groups and pregnancy centers. Some even made it outside of the U.S. to nations where HIV rates are high, like Uganda and Cameroon -- nations that can't afford to be told that condoms don't work.
Abstinence Comedy
Self-labeled "educational comedian" Keith Deltano dangles a cinderblock over a young male student's genital area to show the ineffectiveness of condoms against HIV. This is one of the many acts Deltano features in his performances that he demonstrates to schools across the country. As the Funny Man of the abstinence-only movement, he's been featured in Christian conservative magazines and has won teaching awards of excellence from the Abstinence Clearinghouse, one of the largest abstinence-only organizations in the country. Deltano's show, "Abstinence is Cool," initially comes off as harmless; videos of his performance show students laughing as he jokes that just because dogs have sex doesn't make them "men," and he continues on to tell them what it means to be a man: "paying your bills, serving your country when called, paying your taxes, going to a job you don't like to support a family you love." But this is just the foreplay; shortly thereafter, you see Deltano strapping a male student to a table onstage and holding a cinderblock over him while yelling closely to his face (Deltano was formerly a military police officer) that there's a 10 to 20 percent chance that the cinderblock will fall on him. This is his metaphor of condoms' ineffectiveness against HIV.
While students laugh at his stunts half in shock, he tells them that laughing means that they get it -- and believe it. In one of his performances, he says: "I'm not laughing at these diseases, I'm laughing at the idea that you can have casual premarital sex with no negative consequences. And you know something, young people? That's what you're laughing at. You agree with me."
Pam Stenzel is another abstinence-only educator who uses comedy as way to engage her audience, and is perhaps even more dangerous than Deltano. While Stenzel also uses fear and shame tactics, she targets young girls specifically by telling them that birth control could kill them. Stenzel's special, "Sex Still Has a Price Tag," starts off charming and funny but quickly escalates to her chilling take on birth control: "Every high school I'm in, without exception, everywhere in this nation, every high school I'm in, I will have a girl write me, e-mail me or come right up to me and say this: 'Well, my mom found out I was having sex, and so she put me on the pill.' Or Depo, the shot, fill in the blank. What is that protecting that girl from? What does birth control protect you from? Pregnancy is what that protects you from. That drug, that hormone, that pill, that shot that this girl is taking has just made her 10 times more likely to contract a disease than if she were not taking that drug. This girl could end up sterile or dead. Thanks Mom. Glad you cared."
Stenzel also talks about how many young women she has counseled have suffered from bulimia, anorexia and suicide from having an abortion that "they couldn't take back." This is despite the fact that the American Psychological Association affirmed in 1989 that abortion "does not pose a psychological hazard for most women," and it doesn't recognize the existence of a "post-abortion traumatic stress syndrome," a popular term used by the anti-choice movement. But Stenzel still travels all over the world, spreading the message to young teens that birth control and abortion could potentially result in their death, all sandwiched in between funny stories and personal anecdotes.
Stenzel and Deltano use comedy as their guise, pushing scare and shame tactics to convince teens to mock the idea of having premarital sex -- that not only is sex not cool, but to make fun of the losers who "risk their lives" with it.
Sex and Social Control
The Sexuality Information and Education Council of the United States (SIECUS) reviewed Pam Stenzel's and Keith Deltano's work last year, deeming their work "fear-based" and "designed to control young people's sexual behavior by instilling in them feelings of dread, guilt and embarrassment."
SIECUS' Martha Kempner, who authored the reviews, contends that Deltano and Stenzel are not only deeming themselves the connoisseurs of what's cool, they are manipulating teens into thinking they're someone to trust. "What's so wrong is that they start this conversation by saying, 'I'm your friend'; they ingratiate themselves into the teen world, create a personal relationship with them and then give this information. ... They're giving blatant misinformation to teens in an attempt to control their behavior, and that's just wrong."
J4G essentially does the same thing; while the text is surrounded by smiling faces and catchy headlines, "the inside scoop" isn't giving teen girls a secret on dating, but a lecture on young women's responsibility -- and only young women's -- to keep "visually sensitive" males away from them by dressing modestly.
"These are old age messages the conservative movement has been putting out there," says Kempner. "It wasn't long ago that these were the same messages that were given to rape victims (who were blamed for what they wore). And that's pretty dangerous to still have out there."
Kempner says educators like themselves need to assist teens in developing a critical eye for misinformation in these messages they're given: "Much of what they're going to consume from the media is going to be inaccurate, so we need to help them figure that out, and the biases, whatever they are."
These "old age" messages Kempner talks of remind us that "abstinence-only" may not be the correct terminology for a movement in which abstinence is not the only lifestyle being pushed here. Rather, it's a broader form of regressive conservatism that longs for a country where abortion is illegal, same-sex relationships are virtually ignored (or demonized) and birth control doesn't exist. This is despite the fact that when these things were all a reality 50 years ago, nearly 9 out of 10 women were still having premarital sex, and thousands of women were dying from illegal abortions every year.
The "Abstinence Chic" approach is not only encouraging kids to refrain from sex until marriage, but is packaging an old-school conservatism of anti-abortion, anti-birth control and anti-sex ideologies into a new, shiny teen trend. What is being pitched as "new" and "in" is in fact the oldest -- and most dangerous -- of ideas.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: cordas on Aug 28, 2008 12:30 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: war on sex, war on drugs
Posted by: pure_genius
» RE: war on sex, war on drugs
Posted by: cordas
» Maybe they need to hold concrete blocks over bales of pot
Posted by: Beck
» RE: Maybe they need to hold concrete blocks over bales of pot
Posted by: Xynyx
» RE: war on sex, war on drugs.... both waged by Control Addicts
Posted by: Jayzer
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Posted by: pure_genius on Aug 28, 2008 1:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I didn't have sex until I was 18 and I used protection. There are a multitude of reasons why I waited, but the primary one was not wanting to get a girl pregnant at that age.
I knew so many kids who were going to church every Sunday and being taught abstinence. They engaged in some of the most risky behavior.
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» RE: Knowledge is key
Posted by: Sissy
» RE: Knowledge is key
Posted by: PumbyUmpkin
» RE: Knowledge is key and lock and...
Posted by: ranchero42
» As a former musician...
Posted by: wolfgangmo
» RE: As a former musician...
Posted by: ranchero42
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Posted by: LMNOP on Aug 28, 2008 1:25 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No friggin' way! Next you'll be telling me that they realized that lying doesn't work either.
Then I read on and confirmed that that comment was just an inaccurate teaser to lure potential readers into the column, including people like me who simply refuse to believe that the Christian right realized that moralizing doesn't work and stopped doing it. No way.
Of course they haven't learned that lesson and never will. Never.
How does moralizing in teen zines and through lame Christian comedians not constitute moralizing just the same? And whatever would make anyone think that preaching "abstinence only" in this embarrassing and sure to fail wrapper wasn't moralizing or was an example of these Neanderthals learning?
I guess that we can look forward to another generation of butt sex from the little abstinence-only madonnas. LOL.
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» RE: False advertising... blame Canada.. I mean, Alternet for that
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: False advertising... blame Canada.. I mean, Alternet for that
Posted by: LMNOP
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Posted by: toddlip on Aug 28, 2008 3:24 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: todd
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: todd
Posted by: kwms
» RE: todd
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: todd
Posted by: Xynyx
» RE: todd
Posted by: LMNOP
» ssegallmd
Posted by: emmas
» RE: todd..Pest Control
Posted by: BigElectricCat
» RE: todd..Pest Control
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: todd
Posted by: TagsNOLA
» RE: todd - I agree. We need a diversity of opinion
Posted by: wolfgangmo
» RE: todd
Posted by: Gisele
» RE: todd
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: todd
Posted by: Turiye
» RE: todd
Posted by: hms2004
» Hilarious....
Posted by: Fencerider
» RE: Hilarious....
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: Hilarious....it really is.
Posted by: Fencerider
» RE: Hilarious....it really is.
Posted by: BigElectricCat
» RE: Hilarious....it really is.
Posted by: Fencerider
» RE: Hilarious....it really is.
Posted by: BigElectricCat
» Get out the tranquilizer darts
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: Get out the tranquilizer darts, for BEC and the lithium for ssegal.
Posted by: Fencerider
» RE: Get out the tranquilizer darts..Ba Bye...Bye Now!..Ba Bye!
Posted by: BigElectricCat
» I think you knocked him off of the fence
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: todd
Posted by: Jbuuty
» RE: todd
Posted by: NWCrow
» RE: todd
Posted by: Romans1
» Huh?
Posted by: NWCrow
» RE: todd
Posted by: Jbuuty
» RE: todd
Posted by: wwittman
» That Teen-Abstinence Rally Totally Rocked!
Posted by: fanny666
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Posted by: opmoc on Aug 28, 2008 3:42 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I doubt if it has much if any effect on behaviour, but there is an argument that such repetetive advertising actually encourages such behaviour.
Kids don't want to miss out. They want to conform to the norm.
Whilst I have no objection to education and awareness, the continual indoctrination via radio advertising becomes extremely boring and is largely irrelevant cos most teenage kids spend most of their time on the internet.
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» RE: The UK Government's Advertising Strongly Encourages Teen Sex - Using a Condom
Posted by: cordas
» Not "safe" - "safER"
Posted by: truthlover
» RE: Not "safe" - "safER"
Posted by: Intellect
» RE: The UK Government's Advertising Strongly Encourages Teen Sex - Using a Condom
Posted by: wwittman
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Posted by: Sissy on Aug 28, 2008 3:55 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» why is it so amazing...
Posted by: aislinnluv
» RE: why is it so amazing...
Posted by: emmas
» emmas - you're gonna love this
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: emmas - you're gonna love this
Posted by: UCSD90
» RE: emmas - you're gonna love this
Posted by: emmas
» RE: why is it so amazing...
Posted by: dangerouslysane
» RE: why is it so amazing...
Posted by: Jbuuty
» RE: why is it so amazing...
Posted by: Intellect
» RE: What I find so amazing
Posted by: john mont
» RE: What I find so amazing
Posted by: Xynyx
» RE: What I find so amazing
Posted by: crashgrab
» RE: What I find so amazing
Posted by: Jbuuty
» RE: What I find so amazing
Posted by: crashgrab
» They're sociopaths
Posted by: LMNOP
» yikes...
Posted by: aislinnluv
» RE: They're sociopaths
Posted by: Cathyblj
» Maybe - I'm not certain
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: They're sociopaths
Posted by: BigElectricCat
» RE: They're sociopaths
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: They're sociopaths
Posted by: BigElectricCat
» RE: They're sociopaths
Posted by: LMNOP
» What happens in Vegas..
Posted by: BigElectricCat
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Science1 on Aug 28, 2008 4:01 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
one overall observation.
The Chinese people were very happy, patriotic
and had observably apparent strong family values.
Yes and they did this without organized religion.
My observation only confirmed my feeling that
religion is all about power and control and of course money. This article made a clear statement concerning how the "abstinence issue"
is really more about power and control over
all aspects of reproduction.
Personally I feel the Christian Right, is
a group more to be concerned about then the war, economy and illegal aliens.
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» RE: A little of the subject but
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: A little of the subject but
Posted by: xtine
» RE: A little of the subject but:
Posted by: annekarina
» RE: A little of the subject but:
Posted by: Xynyx
» RE: A little of the subject but:
Posted by: austex_chris
» RE: A little of the subject but:
Posted by: Science1
» reality in China
Posted by: zorro
» RE: reality in China/furthermore...on abortion
Posted by: zorro
» (correction) NONE will talk about sex...no further comment
Posted by: zorro
» RE: reality in China/furthermore...on abortion
Posted by: zorro
Comments are closed-
Posted by: synx on Aug 28, 2008 4:08 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I fully support censoring what impressionable teens are allowed to experience, but let them play all the violent video games they want! Shower them with pornography, gay, splatter, whatever floats your boat! Just keep them away from those goddamn teen magazines, away from sitcoms and soap operas, cruel mind viruses of the most unctuous and penetrating, and for God sakes, don't let them watch all that commercial advertising!
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» RE: Ugh... teen magazines...
Posted by: herronsmith
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Posted by: rugger on Aug 28, 2008 4:11 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here's an idea, let's try to convince everyone else that that's cool.
brilliant strategy.
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Posted by: terradea42 on Aug 28, 2008 4:22 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Cover up, Girls! It works in Iraq & Afganistan
Posted by: crashgrab
» RE: Cover up, Girls! (or Else) It works in Iraq & Afganistan
Posted by: Jayzer
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Posted by: robchapman on Aug 28, 2008 4:31 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
During a scene showing two of the Debaters in bed together in the morning post coitus, several students spontaneously called out, "Oh they are in TROUBLE."
There are adolescents who want to be good people. They are willing to uphold high standards of morality in all matters including sex.
Adolescents who are willing to commit themselves to high standards of sexual morality and behavior need and deserve our support.
Whatever problems we have politically with the Christian Right should not blind us to the importance of giving young people a period of time to develop themselves without the pressure and intrusion of sexually based relationships.
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» RE: Some teens
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: Some teens
Posted by: BeckyD
» RE: Some teens
Posted by: BreeMass
» Oh, just do it honestly then, for god's sake. No "abortion causes cancer and depression" lies
Posted by: Beck
» SO Right on, Beck (as always)
Posted by: Cathyblj
» RE: Oh, just do it honestly then, for god's sake. No "abortion causes cancer and depression" lies
Posted by: robchapman
» RE: Some teens--BAD ANALYSIS
Posted by: lexicon
» He's just saying they don't need to be left to flounder
Posted by: Bonita
» RE: Some teens--BAD ANALYSIS
Posted by: robchapman
» RE: Some teens--BAD ANALYSIS
Posted by: Jayzer
» RE: Some teens--BAD ANALYSIS ..by robchapman
Posted by: BigElectricCat
» RE: Some teens
Posted by: wwittman
» RE: Some teens : No teens need lies
Posted by: arthurread
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Posted by: davescott on Aug 28, 2008 5:00 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: fred_53_99 on Aug 28, 2008 5:10 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: A Better Idea.
Posted by: everton9
» RE: A Better Idea.
Posted by: trying.to.evolve
» RE: A Better Idea.
Posted by: everton9
» really?
Posted by: aislinnluv
» RE: A Better Idea.
Posted by: crashgrab
Comments are closed-
Posted by: fred_53_99 on Aug 28, 2008 5:22 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Mathew 25:41-45
Posted by: john mont
» ??????
Posted by: Fencerider
» Er, I think that was sarcasm! (no text below)
Posted by: truthlover
» LOL
Posted by: LMNOP
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Posted by: Elurby on Aug 28, 2008 5:47 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
#######
Liberals' advancing liberalism sexually
molests babies and children.
How?: by removing the SACRED from human
sexuality and framing it as a recreational
sport.
Can abstinence protect babies and
children from the SICK results of
liberals' anything-goes SEXUAL REVOLU-
TION--particularly those babies and
children abused in child-porn?
Read Dr. Judith Reisman's report on the
stunning increase in sex crimes against
babies and children:
"Child-porn crimes have gone from a
rarity on federal court dockets to
a phenomenon, with prosecutions
jumping nationally from a scant 30
in 1995 to more than 2,100 last
year....Typically, they are catching
successful people - engineers,
businessmen, professors and lawyers
- who are under the false impression
that their habit is personal,
harmless and anonymous."
If abstinence doesn't work to corral
teen sex, then it won't work to corral
adults who like to diddle kids.
Go figure, you-tolerate-everything
liberals!
#######
#######
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» LOL (no text)
Posted by: LMNOP
» maybe the pedophiles are the ones holding concrete blocks over the penises of strange boys
Posted by: Beck
» Last I checked, the Catholic Church has never been too liberal...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» go figure yourself, ya fundy puritan neo-taliban
Posted by: rugger
» There is really only one response to this....
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: There is really only one response to this....
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: Hmmm...Abtinence Doesn't Protect Children from Pedophiles
Posted by: helenwheels
» Great link - thanks (no text)
Posted by: LMNOP
» THANKS For GOP Pedophile Link!; RE: Hmmm...Abtinence Doesn't Protect Children from Pedophiles
Posted by: Elurby
» RE: Hmmm...Abtinence Doesn't Protect Children from Pedophiles
Posted by: songbird1268
» RE: Hmmm...Abtinence Doesn't Protect Children from Pedophiles
Posted by: Elurby
» RE: Hmmm...Abtinence Doesn't Protect Children from Pedophiles
Posted by: wwittman
» You are Certifiable, a blatant falsifier of Truth, how sad to be so ignorant of truth.
Posted by: Turiye
» RE: Hmmm...Abtinence Doesn't Protect Children from Pedophiles
Posted by: atomic
» We knew this was coming. After we made them get rid of the sheets.
Posted by: wolfgangmo
Comments are closed-
Posted by: jrmart on Aug 28, 2008 5:49 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When 13 and 14 year old have sex, this is SEXUAL AUTONOMY???
I deplore the radical Christian right but I deplore just as much those that see everything, every idea and every action of them as "scary" and vicious and mean minded and short sighted and conspiratorial.
If you think unbridled sexual activity of early teens is their right, is part of their "autonomy" then your a real danger.
The use of "slick" ads and promotions is used successfully and widely throughout the marketing world. Why is it wrong to use it to try to reach those impressionable minds?
Do You advocate teen sex?
Just what is wrong with using modern advertising techniques to teach sexual responsibility.
I am shocked to find this attitude in a forum that is usually sane if not fair and balanced.
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» RE: WRONG WRONG WRONG! Yeah, it's wrong to lie to kids. And is the brick a "modern ad technique?"
Posted by: Beck
» RE: "Abortion doesn't cause regret and depression"?
Posted by: Bonita
» RE: "Abortion doesn't cause regret and depression"?
Posted by: crashgrab
» All big life decisions have potential regret built into them. Why are some of you. . .
Posted by: Beck
» RE: All big life decisions have potential regret built into them. Why are some of you. . .
Posted by: crashgrab
» RE: WRONG WRONG WRONG! Yeah, it's wrong to lie to kids. And is the brick a "modern ad technique?"
Posted by: jrmart
» Puritans...
Posted by: wolfgangmo
» RE: WRONG WRONG WRONG!
Posted by: BeckyD
» You were taken aback because apparently you can't comprehend a complexity or sublety
Posted by: Beck
» RE: You were taken aback because apparently you can't comprehend a complexity or sublety
Posted by: BeckyD
» How did life reward the abstainers?
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: You were taken aback because apparently you can't comprehend a complexity or sublety
Posted by: jrmart
» RE: You were taken aback because apparently you can't comprehend a complexity or sublety
Posted by: BigElectricCat
» RE: WRONG WRONG WRONG!
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: WRONG WRONG WRONG!? Um, that'd be you...
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: WRONG WRONG WRONG!? Um, that'd be you...
Posted by: jrmart
» RE: WRONG WRONG WRONG!
Posted by: crashgrab
» No unbridled sex?
Posted by: LMNOP
» LMAO!!
Posted by: BreeMass
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Godfather89 on Aug 28, 2008 5:53 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is acting upon that lust on someone else that holds people down, not because you'll burn in hell when you die but because, it can lead to unwanted things like STD's, Unwanted Pregnancy, Relationship Problems (especially if you are with someone else). If your single and acting upon the lust after someone that you dont know from a hole in the wall than you put yourself at risk.
Plus their is scientific proof that people who love are far more happier than people who lust. Sexual Lust is more so a youth thing because as you get older the lust wheres down and most people come to realize that lust is not as powerful nor worth as much as love.
While I am not in a relationship right now, I have still abstained -despite the comprehensive sex ed- from sex, it is my belief that the religious right has no right to influence teens like this. It is also my belief that when I find the girl I love, I don't care if we are married or not, I will make love to her and I will not hold back nor be guilty for doing so.
So basically it needs some self-control.
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» RE: A little Something To know...
Posted by: dawnteach
» RE: A little Something To know...
Posted by: Gisele
» a "spiritual path"
Posted by: aislinnluv
» Ethnocentric
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: thnocentric
Posted by: Dboy
» RE: A little Something To know...
Posted by: wwittman
Comments are closed-
Posted by: dawnteach on Aug 28, 2008 5:55 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: your nuts
Posted by: soowee
» sadly...
Posted by: aislinnluv
» I rate this attempt a 4.5
Posted by: Curio
» RE: your nuts
Posted by: maestra
» RE: ; the nuts of teenage boys, it would seem
Posted by: Beck
» Let's try this again...
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: your nuts
Posted by: songbird1268
» RE: your nuts
Posted by: wwittman
» my nuts? what about them, you perv?
Posted by: LMNOP
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Posted by: maxpayne on Aug 28, 2008 6:07 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
P.S.: If we'd defeat the rightwingers at the economic, environmental, and foreign-policy levels, getting through the social issues would automatically be taken care of. And if it's any consolation, Bush has plenty of lapdogs in the DLC/BlueDoggy wing of the Democratic Party to "assist" him.
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Aug 28, 2008 6:39 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» or preach to the entire Bible Belt, with its higher abortion and crime and divorce rates
Posted by: Beck
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Posted by: grindermonkey on Aug 28, 2008 6:44 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» THONG EQUALS BURKA
Posted by: Rosasharn
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Posted by: southerndem on Aug 28, 2008 6:49 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Dumbest article ever?
Posted by: bornxeyed
» You're okay with ANYTHING? the concrete blocks, the lies? What HAPPENED to you people?
Posted by: Beck
» Umm..yeah...
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: Umm..yeah...at least, not this one
Posted by: Beck
» RE: Dumbest article ever! NOT!
Posted by: DaBear
» Dumbest response ever!
Posted by: aislinnluv
» RE: Dumbest article ever!
Posted by: wwittman
» RE: Dumbest article ever!
Posted by: crashgrab
» RE: Dumbest article ever!
Posted by: LMNOP
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Posted by: flagsmasher on Aug 28, 2008 6:54 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
. . . and yet . . .
teens who recieved Abstience Only education are:
twice as likely to have oral sex and
4 times as likely to do anal! (and unprotected too)
This is more "moral" than allowing teens to have acurate information about birth control?
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Posted by: 876 on Aug 28, 2008 6:59 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» No, creepy is when other people think they should raise MY kids, even thought theirs. . .
Posted by: Beck
» RE: No, creepy is when other people think they should raise MY kids, even thought theirs. . .
Posted by: 876
» Maybe we need to try another language.
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: No, creepy is when other people think they should raise MY kids, even thought theirs. . .
Posted by: 876
» RE: No, creepy is when other people think they should raise MY kids, even thought theirs. . .
Posted by: 876
» RE: No, creepy is when other people think they should raise MY kids, even thought theirs. . .
Posted by: emmas
» RE: Twice the Satisfaction
Posted by: BigElectricCat
» Now THAT'S how it's done!
Posted by: Curio
» Love it!!
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: 876
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: BreeMass
Posted by: 876
» RE: BreeMass
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: BreeMass
Posted by: BigElectricCat
» RE: "Promiscuous depravity"
Posted by: grindermonkey
» RE: 876
Posted by: crashgrab
» RE: 876
Posted by: AlineSE
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Posted by: 876 on Aug 28, 2008 7:01 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
She sounds like some sort of liberal pervert.
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» Not to mention...
Posted by: BreeMass
» And then you had to go too far...
Posted by: Curio
» Trollometrics
Posted by: LMNOP
» Freud, anyone?
Posted by: AlineSE
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Posted by: vasumurti on Aug 28, 2008 7:06 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami writes in The Path of Perfection:
"Yoga does not mean going to some class, paying some money, engaging in gymnastics, and then returning home to drink, smoke, and engage in sex. Such yoga is practiced by societies of the cheaters and the cheated...If one tells you that you can indulge in sex as much as you like and at the same time become a yogi, he is cheating you. If some so-called guru tells you to give him money in exchange for some mantra and that you can go on and engage in all kinds of nonsense, he is just cheating you. Because we want something sublime and yet want it cheaply, we put ourselves in a position to be cheated...if we want perfection in yoga, we have to pay for it by abstaining from sex. Perfection in yoga is not something childish, and Bhagavad-gita instructs us that if we try to make yoga into something childish, we will be cheated. There are many cheaters awaiting us, waiting to take our money, giving us nothing, and then leaving."
The apostle Paul similarly taught his followers to bless their persecutors and not curse them (Romans 12:14), to care for their enemies by providing them with food and drink (12:20), and to pay their taxes and obey all earthly governments (13:1-7). He mentioned giving all his belongings to feed the hungry (I Corinthians 13:3), and taught giving to the person in need (Ephesians 4:23). He told his followers it was wrong to take their conflicts before non-Christian courts rather than before the saints. (I Corinthians 6:1)
Paul wrote, "it is good for a man not to touch a woman," i.e., it is best to be celibate, but because of prevailing immoralities, marriage is allowed. Divorce is allowed in the case of an unbeliever demanding separation. (I Corinthians 7)
Paul repeatedly attacked sexual immorality:
"This is God's will--your sanctification, that you keep yourselves from sexual immorality, that each of you learn how to take his own wife in purity and honor, not in lustful passion like the gentiles who have no knowledge of God." (I Thessalonians 4:3-5)
Paul told his followers not to associate with sexually immoral people (I Corinthians 5:9-12, 6:15,18). He condemned homosexuality (Romans 1:24-27) and incest (I Corinthians 5:1).
"Make no mistake," warned Paul, "no fornicator or idolater, none who are guilty either of adultery or of homosexual perversion, no thieves or grabbers or drunkards or slanderers or swindlers, will possess the kingdom of God." (I Corinthians 6:9-10 [NEB])
Paul condemned wickedness, immorality, depravity, greed, envy, murder, quarreling, deceit, malignity, gossip, slander, insolence, pride (Romans 1:29-30), drunkenness, carousing, debauchery, jealousy (Romans 13:13), sensuality, magic arts, animosities, bad temper, selfishness, dissensions, envy (Galatians 5:19-21; greediness (Ephesians 4:19; Colossians 3:5), foul speech, anger, clamor, abusive language, malice (Ephesians 4:29-32), dishonesty (Colossians 3:13), materialism (I Timothy 6:6-11), conceit, avarice, boasting and treachery. (II Timothy 3:2-4)
Paul told the gentiles to train themselves for godliness, to practice self-control and lead upright, godly lives (Galatians 5:23; I Timothy 4:7; II Timothy 1:7; Titus 2:11-12). He instructed them to ALWAYS pray constantly. (I Thessalonians 5:17)
Women should cover their heads while worshipping, and long hair on males is dishonorable. (I Corinthians 11:5-14) Christian women are to dress modestly and prudently, and are not to be adorned with braided hair, gold or pearls or expensive clothes. (I Tim. 2:9)
My problem isn't with Christians unable to follow Paul, but the hypocrisy of saying "I believe" and ignoring what their religion dictates.
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» RE: the spirit versus the flesh
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Peter & Paul highjacked the Church and Crowned themelves
Posted by: Purple Girl
» RE: the spirit versus the flesh
Posted by: aki_no_kaze
» RELIGIOUS MIND POISON
Posted by: atomic
» RE: the spirit versus the flesh
Posted by: boing007
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Posted by: Ambercat on Aug 28, 2008 7:11 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Alarm misplaced... whose alarm is misplaced?
Posted by: DaBear
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Posted by: Peschko on Aug 28, 2008 7:17 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: American tactics?
Posted by: 876
» RE: American tactics?
Posted by: crashgrab
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Posted by: PaulK on Aug 28, 2008 7:24 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Issue two is whether we should set the dumbest bunnies up to fail in life. Do we actually educate, or do we smugly say "Told you so, slut" outside of Planned Parenthood?
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» Issue one isn't an issue
Posted by: Curio
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Posted by: GuitarBill on Aug 28, 2008 7:49 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: X-POLYGAMIST WIFE on Aug 28, 2008 7:50 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.bankingonheaven.com
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» Sorry, incorrect. Try again.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Sorry, incorrect. Try again.
Posted by: aki_no_kaze
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Posted by: luzmejor on Aug 28, 2008 7:58 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think the solution is quite clear.
We should move all these professional hand-wringers to Iraq, Iran, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, where the girls will be assaulted and killed regularly and they won't need to worry their pointy heads so much about "tight" clothing because girls are already dressed in the Oriental version of hooded white supremacists.
That kind of "christian" could be a lot happier where they can just kill women because they are there and the men feel insufficiently admired by strangers.
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» Gentle 876, you truly have no idea how you come off, do you?
Posted by: Beck
» RE: It is so hard for boys to be "visual"
Posted by: crashgrab
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Posted by: Purple Girl on Aug 28, 2008 8:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
BUT, when you are unwilling to use all methods available to combat both these problems, you motives must be suspect.
so if you discourage Birth control of all forms, and ignore the natural drive, you are working to INCREASE Preganancies.Reason sex Drive kicks in at puberty, because as a species we are capable for reproduction (Survival & Reproduction, basic drives of ALL Living things!)
Abstinence is a great supporting program, if conducted correctly.
End Abortions..Support Education AND
Birth control.
Otherwise you are just cheapening the Human Labor Commodity for the Corps Beenfit and Proving 'God' should have never left our species in charge as Stewards.That means being able to manage yourselves first!Otherwise you are throwing away the 'sense God Gave You'!!!
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» it's actually "forced birthers"
Posted by: goatini
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Posted by: jeffrey7 on Aug 28, 2008 8:08 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Teaching.
Bright side...if they get their followers to be abstinate there won't be many of them around to fuck things up for the rest of us.
They believe the Anti-Christ will come and they are waiting for him. Abstinance might make that not so...or maybe they just need to look into the mirror to see him.
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» RE: Only if they practice it amongst themselves
Posted by: emmas
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Posted by: hms2004 on Aug 28, 2008 8:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: xtine on Aug 28, 2008 8:52 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: xtinez
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: xtinez
Posted by: 2821ajk
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Posted by: Jbuuty on Aug 28, 2008 9:30 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: What ignorance
Posted by: BreeMass
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Posted by: BlueTigress on Aug 28, 2008 9:50 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Further, ones that are vicious or a nuisance are to be put down quickly and humanely.
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» RE: Boys as mindless sexual animals
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: Boys as mindless sexual animals
Posted by: Cathyblj
» RE: Boys as mindless sexual animals
Posted by: BlueTigress
» RE: Boys as mindless sexual animals
Posted by: Martin32
» RE: Boys as mindless sexual animals
Posted by: Martin32
» RE: Boys as mindless sexual animals
Posted by: BlueTigress
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Posted by: maxsmart on Aug 28, 2008 9:52 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: ninaalt on Aug 28, 2008 10:00 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Lastly, the proponents of this absurd sex education must know that those kids that are not having sex yet are having lots of oral sex, which also presents dangers to physical and mental sex.
These "teachers" live in a bubble and their plans are dangerous.
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Posted by: JerseyGuy on Aug 28, 2008 10:03 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.ffrf.org/fttoday/1998/jan_feb98/walker.html
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» great article, thank you!!
Posted by: goatini
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Posted by: gsong on Aug 28, 2008 10:50 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: GSong
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: GSong
Posted by: mercury613
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Posted by: Megnificent on Aug 28, 2008 10:52 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I didn't grow up with ANY sex education- abstinence or otherwise. Everything I learned I virtually taught myself. I had a very positive first sexual experience that I initiated. I talk to friends all the time (girls and boys) who had TERRIBLE stories of losing their virginity. Kinda makes one want to major in sex therapy!
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» Good point!
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: The Virtual Elephant on this Comment Board
Posted by: nen
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Posted by: DaBear on Aug 28, 2008 11:19 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Watch a few episodes of "Secret Life of the American Teenager" and the abstinence only bullshit is so thick I find myself in shock and disbelief. Aside from the shockingly horrible script (inexplicably "dropped out" plot points, dialogue smacking of 1st-year drama student work, overly simplistic story formation) and the caricatures of "adults", the "info" and thematic material in SLOTAT embodies in every way exactly what Valenti is exposing in the piece. We had to stop watching it, mainly because of it's seductive appeal to our tween daughter despite her awareness of the bullshit; she can now write a paper on the misinformation and disinformation the episodes foist on an audience but she isn't old enough yet to see the different between the "pretty main character" and the Xtian fundie agenda posing as a dramatic-comedy series (it's also arguable which the producers wanted, drama or comedy). It's damned scary sometimes.
Given ABC Family's lineup, I'm a little surprised Valenti didn't cite the series or the channel in the piece. Maybe those parts got cut by her editors (damned editors, always insisting that all readers have only short attention spans).
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» RE: The other weapon is the ABC Family channel
Posted by: realmuzik
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Posted by: tHetrIp on Aug 28, 2008 11:58 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In junior high, we had the police anti-drug presentation and laughed when one cop mispronounced "shrooms" and again when he passed around a bag of weed that was of such obviously poor quality, none of us - even at 13 years old - would even consider smoking it. Mission accomplished!
We had some douchebag show the entire school a series of accident photos - dead bodies, brains, and all - while talking about the dangers of drunk driving, and claiming - ludicrously - not to be using scare tactics, merely trying to "educate" us. He was booed.
We had the abstinence presentation in high school, which left everyone in the room praying: "God, if you're up there, and you're merciful, please provide me a good job, so I don't wind up some ridiculously-dressed, under-sexed, 20-something dork, jumping around cracking weak jokes for an unimpressed bunch of high-schoolers for my paychecque!"
Kids generally aren't stupid. They know bullshit when they see it and, as long as we foster a healthy suspicion of authority figures, we likely needn't worry about the "hip" and "savvy" new propaganda being thrown their way. Let these people keep shoveling money down the rat hole - just make sure it's their money and not yours.
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Posted by: Romans1 on Aug 28, 2008 11:59 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
She is also tired of picking up the pieces of her friends' shattered lives after they have made the decision to have sex before marriage. But she will continue to do so as long as she has to.
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» RE: Consequences
Posted by: wwittman
» The point is...
Posted by: Romans1
» RE: The point is...
Posted by: crashgrab
» RE: Consequences
Posted by: mercury613
» RE: Consequences
Posted by: crashgrab
» RE: Consequences
Posted by: Romans1
» RE: Consequences
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: Consequences
Posted by: crashgrab
» Wow, she knows some lowlifes, eh? My sons and neighbors don't know all these shattered souls
Posted by: Beck
» Steve allways calls when I'm thinking of calling him....
Posted by: aki_no_kaze
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Posted by: TheNamelessCity on Aug 28, 2008 12:10 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Psychoanalyze the religious freaks
Posted by: mercury613
» RE: Psychoanalyze the religious freaks
Posted by: Romans1
» RE: Psychoactive-ize the religious freaks
Posted by: ranchero42
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Posted by: manderson on Aug 28, 2008 12:14 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The religious "right" (I hate to compare ideology on a line nowadays, but it will serve as a noun for the purpose) is alloyed with Corporate power, and obedience to it. It is Capitalism and Religion bound together in a package that any old hard-line patriarchal authoritarian Stalinist or Maoist would see in a heartbeat.
what's next----the Bhurka, killing women who are raped? Christian genital mutilation? I wonder if it'll stop those Congressmen (and others, like Jimmy Swaggert) from soliciting sex and drugs in bus stop bathrooms and motels.
I guess you can't argue with "God", the bully---Jesus Christ Rambo. It saves those who follow him from actually THINKING about how fucking stupid they are.
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Posted by: BlueGorilla on Aug 28, 2008 12:35 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We are living in an age where "ultra-femininity" is heavily encouraged.The message sent out by teen mags to young women, is "be girly,or be left behind".
There are only a few "types" for young women to choose from today..and they all revolve around sexiness and girliness,at the expense of other attributes.
Where once feminism,offered a resistance to this mainstream construction of women's identity,such theories are increasingly marginalized,though not extinguished.
Some of the blame for this marginalization of more thoughtful feminism, can be attributed to the shallowness of the popular"post-feminism"which basically says that ,such acts as being a pole dancer, are empowering for women.
This ideological failure,has allowed room for the neo-cons, to come along,and offer an alternative to the "be sexy,or die trying" role.
The social environment has always commodified women,but now it is in overdrive.Showing as much ,of what little flesh they have,(gotta be skinny,or your no one,hey girls!?) is the norm in cities and towns throughout the west.
What is wrong with young women resisting that social pressure?if they so choose?In itself nothing.
The problem is though,that the neo-cons aren't setting out to support empowerment,they are merely replacing one set of controls,with another.The free market,so beloved of the neo-cons,has adverse effects,which the cons find a little too wild and uncontrolled.These right wingers,wish to control that sex drive,like all authoritarian groups set out to do.Though this time it is God's name,and is on many levels "anti-women."
As a largely heterosexual male,I am attracted to the female bodies on display ,but and here is the point for me..its for me,to control my desires,and no one else..and having male led movements ,controlling womens sexuality is dangerous.
Really it would be healthier, if society led by woman,were to offer a few decent alternatives to women,beyond JUST sexual objectification.
That isnt to deny womens sexuality,cos it would be a grim world without it (if your a straight guy,or a woman),its just that there has to be more to a person.
In my mind,this multi-dimensional personality,along with assertiveness and self awareness,makes a woman much more attractive,than if she is a victim of social forces,who just worries about hair,nails and make up all day.Change has to come from women themselves though.
The opposite view to this,the neo-con view,although an alternative to objectification, would lead to an endorsement, of a Taleban style, forced cover up of women,(its funny,how neo-cons and Taleban are sssooo similar in outlook,they should make friends again).
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Posted by: mercury613 on Aug 28, 2008 12:42 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's not to say that we should encourage kids to have sex at an early age when they are not emotionally prepared for it, but the only thing that will work is giving kids all the information and all the options. Anything else virtually guarantees bad choices.
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» RE: You create what you defend against
Posted by: wwittman
» RE: You create what you defend against
Posted by: mercury613
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Posted by: nen on Aug 28, 2008 1:34 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I started my relationship with the wonderful lady who is now my wife as a casual weekly or bi-weekly "play time" if you will. We are both trans and it was hard for us to make intimate relationships where we could be sure we could trust the other person with our bodies and hearts and respect us for the person we are. This sort of "playing around" I would call casual. It did become serious later but I'm speaking about this to make a distinction.
My wife and I have an open relationship. The rule: you can bring someone home as long as you share. We invited a good friend of ours to our bed for some fun. Now this bit of intimacy is NOT casual. Why not? Because we both love and trust this person and want to share something beautiful with them.
As such, not all extra-marital relations are casual or even wrong (ie: cheating). That's the point I'm making here.
I know some people reading this must be wrinkling their noses in disgust, but do consider a point before you dismiss my views as crazy. Consider, that in the Christian view, the world started out with Adam and Eve. God loved these two people equally. Now, if love were a finite thing, of limited quantity, we would all be in a great deal of trouble. There are many MANY more than just two people on this earth at the moment.
I would ask of all Christians reading this comment: do you believe that you have only a billionth of God's love? I don't care how big it is, that's a very tiny fraction. Consider also, that the Bible tells us to love as God loves. That means everyone equally. If God is love, then love is limitless and infinite. I am not Christian. I used to be and decided that it wasn't for me. But I enjoin you, please, use your own logic when telling others what to do with their hearts and bodies.
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» RE: Pre-marital is not the same as casual
Posted by: Romans1
» RE: Pre-marital is not the same as casual
Posted by: aki_no_kaze
» RE: Pre-marital is not the same as casual
Posted by: crashgrab
» RE: Pre-marital is not the same as casual
Posted by: emmas
» RE: Pre-marital is not the same as casual
Posted by: nen
» RE: Pre-marital is not the same as casual
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: Pre-marital is not the same as casual
Posted by: crashgrab
» RE: Pre-marital is not the same as casual
Posted by: mercury613
» RE: Pre-marital is not the same as casual
Posted by: nen
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Posted by: realmuzik on Aug 28, 2008 3:24 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is a growing movement of young people actually rising up and demanding realistic sex-ed courses. I applaud these brave young people for exercising their First Amendment right to stand up and speak out for their own welfare.
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Posted by: theallegro on Aug 28, 2008 4:13 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Islam does not equal Saudi Arabia, and even Arab culture does not equal Saudi culture. The Nejd (center of Saudi Arabia) has been populated by what we in the West would consider "backward tribes" since well before the foundation of Islam. Come on.
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Posted by: ems on Aug 28, 2008 4:33 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't think we should look at men as God's designated relationship leaders (and I could point out Biblical passages to support this view from Genesis and from I Corinthians).
However, I don't think the "tactics" mentioned here are all that creepy. How are they really that different from all the other media young people (and old people) are showered with?
The point the author makes about young women going on the pill or Depo or "fill in the blank" and these methods not preventing STDs is true. Sure, it's a scare tactic to keep kids from having sex. But it's also true!
And of my friends from high school and college who did have abortions, I can safely say that three out of the four I knew about really did struggle very much emotionally after having an abortion. Why would we expect "most women" to have NO psychological impact from going through an abortion?
As far as the media stuff goes, I think the bottom line is we need to teach our children how to analyze, how to read between the lines of just about EVERYTHING they read, see or hear. No news source, no history book, no radio talk show, not even the Bible -- is without an agenda. At least somewhat of an agenda.
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» The concrete block is truly creepy, and I've struggled emtionally after quitting jobs, or moving, or
Posted by: Beck
» RE: The concrete block is truly creepy, and I've struggled emtionally after quitting jobs, or moving, or
Posted by: LMNOP
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Posted by: playitsam on Aug 28, 2008 4:33 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: At the risk of sounding like an old &^%*.....
Posted by: tap17x
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Posted by: aki_no_kaze on Aug 28, 2008 8:21 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
now, I was recently married and we got some WONDERFUL gifts from our friends and family, some were decorative, most were practical (which was what we asked for). We use these practical gifts regularly, as we feel to do otherwise would be a great insult to those who gave them to us.
"Wow! thanks a microwave... let me put that back in the box and tuck it away in the closet so it doesn't get damaged."
sexuality is a gift like a microwave, it was meant to be used (that "go forth and multiply" thing), to purposefully shun the gift, never use it, even ignore that you even got it... well if someone did that to a gift I gave that was meant to be used, I would be pretty dang upset.
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Posted by: tap17x on Aug 28, 2008 9:27 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Walks-in-Storms on Aug 29, 2008 6:40 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This society and nation with its relentless imprisonment of the innocent (read that victims of false rape charges and everything the like) is a fearsome one, its blundering and bungling criminal justice system, its hideous prison system, its political correctness . . . and on, and on, and on.
But then what would you expect of a nation, all of whose related social systems are degraded by women? Anyone who wishes to see why the U.S. is the world's laughingstock where sex is concerned need only look to militant feminism.
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» RE: Of all life's fears . . .those of you who blame women for everything reflect the biggest
Posted by: Beck
» RE: Of all life's fears . . .
Posted by: mercury613
» RE: Of all life's fears . . .
Posted by: crashgrab
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Posted by: mombot on Aug 29, 2008 11:25 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rock on!
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» RE: you remind me of some dear friends
Posted by: mombot
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Posted by: Jeanne on Aug 29, 2008 7:33 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Excellent point...
Posted by: ShrubtheWarcriminal
» RE: Anything that keeps
Posted by: jstepp590
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Posted by: ShrubtheWarcriminal on Aug 30, 2008 8:30 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This basic tenet has been know by the religious since the founding of the Catholic Church.
That means you can get them to even die for their Invisible Friends...like the Shrub did.
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Posted by: Ms T on Aug 31, 2008 2:10 PM
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Posted by: cherylsass123 on Aug 31, 2008 3:56 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and so, my 87 year old mom was telling me about " those foreign women working at kohls in brookfield[ CT] and how they wear the scarves over their head. why do they have to dress that way?" she wanted to know.
I explained " because they have to remain faithful to allah and their moslem religion! a moslem woman once explained that they do this so that they will not tempt the men into sin by looking pretty!" sounds familiar???
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Posted by: Hrpufnstuff on Sep 2, 2008 7:12 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Personally, I don't see any reason why progressives should be against abstinence. It does no harm, and it can do good. Instead of complaining, progressives should come up with an abstinence-option within their own system. One gets the impression, however, that abstinence has become a knee-jerk issue: it must be bad if conservatives are for it.
If it's the propaganda side of the campaign that we find objectionable... well, what can we say about that? If promoting social causes is wrong, then progressives have no reason to exist.
Maybe it's the religious/conservative "style" of abstinence that gives offense. That is an easy thing to correct: offer a better alternative -- better than prudishness and better than moral indifference to the vulgarity of the lives of young people in this country.
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Posted by: Richmond on Sep 3, 2008 5:05 PM
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» RE: Is Mc Cain a Born-Again Adulterer ?
Posted by: Dboy
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Posted by: jstepp590 on Sep 4, 2008 6:40 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Besides, good luck! It's not immorality they are fighting but biology. The bible says "be fruitful and multiply". Just exactly how did they expect that was going to happen anyway! LOL
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Posted by: cordas on Aug 28, 2008 12:30 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: war on sex, war on drugs
Posted by: pure_genius
» RE: war on sex, war on drugs
Posted by: cordas
» Maybe they need to hold concrete blocks over bales of pot
Posted by: Beck
» RE: Maybe they need to hold concrete blocks over bales of pot
Posted by: Xynyx
» RE: war on sex, war on drugs.... both waged by Control Addicts
Posted by: Jayzer
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Posted by: pure_genius on Aug 28, 2008 1:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I didn't have sex until I was 18 and I used protection. There are a multitude of reasons why I waited, but the primary one was not wanting to get a girl pregnant at that age.
I knew so many kids who were going to church every Sunday and being taught abstinence. They engaged in some of the most risky behavior.
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» RE: Knowledge is key
Posted by: Sissy
» RE: Knowledge is key
Posted by: PumbyUmpkin
» RE: Knowledge is key and lock and...
Posted by: ranchero42
» As a former musician...
Posted by: wolfgangmo
» RE: As a former musician...
Posted by: ranchero42
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Posted by: LMNOP on Aug 28, 2008 1:25 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No friggin' way! Next you'll be telling me that they realized that lying doesn't work either.
Then I read on and confirmed that that comment was just an inaccurate teaser to lure potential readers into the column, including people like me who simply refuse to believe that the Christian right realized that moralizing doesn't work and stopped doing it. No way.
Of course they haven't learned that lesson and never will. Never.
How does moralizing in teen zines and through lame Christian comedians not constitute moralizing just the same? And whatever would make anyone think that preaching "abstinence only" in this embarrassing and sure to fail wrapper wasn't moralizing or was an example of these Neanderthals learning?
I guess that we can look forward to another generation of butt sex from the little abstinence-only madonnas. LOL.
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» RE: False advertising... blame Canada.. I mean, Alternet for that
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: False advertising... blame Canada.. I mean, Alternet for that
Posted by: LMNOP
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Posted by: toddlip on Aug 28, 2008 3:24 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: todd
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: todd
Posted by: kwms
» RE: todd
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: todd
Posted by: Xynyx
» RE: todd
Posted by: LMNOP
» ssegallmd
Posted by: emmas
» RE: todd..Pest Control
Posted by: BigElectricCat
» RE: todd..Pest Control
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: todd
Posted by: TagsNOLA
» RE: todd - I agree. We need a diversity of opinion
Posted by: wolfgangmo
» RE: todd
Posted by: Gisele
» RE: todd
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: todd
Posted by: Turiye
» RE: todd
Posted by: hms2004
» Hilarious....
Posted by: Fencerider
» RE: Hilarious....
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: Hilarious....it really is.
Posted by: Fencerider
» RE: Hilarious....it really is.
Posted by: BigElectricCat
» RE: Hilarious....it really is.
Posted by: Fencerider
» RE: Hilarious....it really is.
Posted by: BigElectricCat
» Get out the tranquilizer darts
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: Get out the tranquilizer darts, for BEC and the lithium for ssegal.
Posted by: Fencerider
» RE: Get out the tranquilizer darts..Ba Bye...Bye Now!..Ba Bye!
Posted by: BigElectricCat
» I think you knocked him off of the fence
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: todd
Posted by: Jbuuty
» RE: todd
Posted by: NWCrow
» RE: todd
Posted by: Romans1
» Huh?
Posted by: NWCrow
» RE: todd
Posted by: Jbuuty
» RE: todd
Posted by: wwittman
» That Teen-Abstinence Rally Totally Rocked!
Posted by: fanny666
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Posted by: opmoc on Aug 28, 2008 3:42 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I doubt if it has much if any effect on behaviour, but there is an argument that such repetetive advertising actually encourages such behaviour.
Kids don't want to miss out. They want to conform to the norm.
Whilst I have no objection to education and awareness, the continual indoctrination via radio advertising becomes extremely boring and is largely irrelevant cos most teenage kids spend most of their time on the internet.
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» RE: The UK Government's Advertising Strongly Encourages Teen Sex - Using a Condom
Posted by: cordas
» Not "safe" - "safER"
Posted by: truthlover
» RE: Not "safe" - "safER"
Posted by: Intellect
» RE: The UK Government's Advertising Strongly Encourages Teen Sex - Using a Condom
Posted by: wwittman
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Posted by: Sissy on Aug 28, 2008 3:55 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» why is it so amazing...
Posted by: aislinnluv
» RE: why is it so amazing...
Posted by: emmas
» emmas - you're gonna love this
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: emmas - you're gonna love this
Posted by: UCSD90
» RE: emmas - you're gonna love this
Posted by: emmas
» RE: why is it so amazing...
Posted by: dangerouslysane
» RE: why is it so amazing...
Posted by: Jbuuty
» RE: why is it so amazing...
Posted by: Intellect
» RE: What I find so amazing
Posted by: john mont
» RE: What I find so amazing
Posted by: Xynyx
» RE: What I find so amazing
Posted by: crashgrab
» RE: What I find so amazing
Posted by: Jbuuty
» RE: What I find so amazing
Posted by: crashgrab
» They're sociopaths
Posted by: LMNOP
» yikes...
Posted by: aislinnluv
» RE: They're sociopaths
Posted by: Cathyblj
» Maybe - I'm not certain
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: They're sociopaths
Posted by: BigElectricCat
» RE: They're sociopaths
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: They're sociopaths
Posted by: BigElectricCat
» RE: They're sociopaths
Posted by: LMNOP
» What happens in Vegas..
Posted by: BigElectricCat
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Posted by: Science1 on Aug 28, 2008 4:01 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
one overall observation.
The Chinese people were very happy, patriotic
and had observably apparent strong family values.
Yes and they did this without organized religion.
My observation only confirmed my feeling that
religion is all about power and control and of course money. This article made a clear statement concerning how the "abstinence issue"
is really more about power and control over
all aspects of reproduction.
Personally I feel the Christian Right, is
a group more to be concerned about then the war, economy and illegal aliens.
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» RE: A little of the subject but
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: A little of the subject but
Posted by: xtine
» RE: A little of the subject but:
Posted by: annekarina
» RE: A little of the subject but:
Posted by: Xynyx
» RE: A little of the subject but:
Posted by: austex_chris
» RE: A little of the subject but:
Posted by: Science1
» reality in China
Posted by: zorro
» RE: reality in China/furthermore...on abortion
Posted by: zorro
» (correction) NONE will talk about sex...no further comment
Posted by: zorro
» RE: reality in China/furthermore...on abortion
Posted by: zorro
Comments are closed-
Posted by: synx on Aug 28, 2008 4:08 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I fully support censoring what impressionable teens are allowed to experience, but let them play all the violent video games they want! Shower them with pornography, gay, splatter, whatever floats your boat! Just keep them away from those goddamn teen magazines, away from sitcoms and soap operas, cruel mind viruses of the most unctuous and penetrating, and for God sakes, don't let them watch all that commercial advertising!
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» RE: Ugh... teen magazines...
Posted by: herronsmith
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Posted by: rugger on Aug 28, 2008 4:11 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here's an idea, let's try to convince everyone else that that's cool.
brilliant strategy.
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Posted by: terradea42 on Aug 28, 2008 4:22 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Cover up, Girls! It works in Iraq & Afganistan
Posted by: crashgrab
» RE: Cover up, Girls! (or Else) It works in Iraq & Afganistan
Posted by: Jayzer
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Posted by: robchapman on Aug 28, 2008 4:31 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
During a scene showing two of the Debaters in bed together in the morning post coitus, several students spontaneously called out, "Oh they are in TROUBLE."
There are adolescents who want to be good people. They are willing to uphold high standards of morality in all matters including sex.
Adolescents who are willing to commit themselves to high standards of sexual morality and behavior need and deserve our support.
Whatever problems we have politically with the Christian Right should not blind us to the importance of giving young people a period of time to develop themselves without the pressure and intrusion of sexually based relationships.
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» RE: Some teens
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: Some teens
Posted by: BeckyD
» RE: Some teens
Posted by: BreeMass
» Oh, just do it honestly then, for god's sake. No "abortion causes cancer and depression" lies
Posted by: Beck
» SO Right on, Beck (as always)
Posted by: Cathyblj
» RE: Oh, just do it honestly then, for god's sake. No "abortion causes cancer and depression" lies
Posted by: robchapman
» RE: Some teens--BAD ANALYSIS
Posted by: lexicon
» He's just saying they don't need to be left to flounder
Posted by: Bonita
» RE: Some teens--BAD ANALYSIS
Posted by: robchapman
» RE: Some teens--BAD ANALYSIS
Posted by: Jayzer
» RE: Some teens--BAD ANALYSIS ..by robchapman
Posted by: BigElectricCat
» RE: Some teens
Posted by: wwittman
» RE: Some teens : No teens need lies
Posted by: arthurread
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Posted by: davescott on Aug 28, 2008 5:00 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: fred_53_99 on Aug 28, 2008 5:10 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: A Better Idea.
Posted by: everton9
» RE: A Better Idea.
Posted by: trying.to.evolve
» RE: A Better Idea.
Posted by: everton9
» really?
Posted by: aislinnluv
» RE: A Better Idea.
Posted by: crashgrab
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Posted by: fred_53_99 on Aug 28, 2008 5:22 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Mathew 25:41-45
Posted by: john mont
» ??????
Posted by: Fencerider
» Er, I think that was sarcasm! (no text below)
Posted by: truthlover
» LOL
Posted by: LMNOP
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Posted by: Elurby on Aug 28, 2008 5:47 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
#######
Liberals' advancing liberalism sexually
molests babies and children.
How?: by removing the SACRED from human
sexuality and framing it as a recreational
sport.
Can abstinence protect babies and
children from the SICK results of
liberals' anything-goes SEXUAL REVOLU-
TION--particularly those babies and
children abused in child-porn?
Read Dr. Judith Reisman's report on the
stunning increase in sex crimes against
babies and children:
"Child-porn crimes have gone from a
rarity on federal court dockets to
a phenomenon, with prosecutions
jumping nationally from a scant 30
in 1995 to more than 2,100 last
year....Typically, they are catching
successful people - engineers,
businessmen, professors and lawyers
- who are under the false impression
that their habit is personal,
harmless and anonymous."
If abstinence doesn't work to corral
teen sex, then it won't work to corral
adults who like to diddle kids.
Go figure, you-tolerate-everything
liberals!
#######
#######
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» LOL (no text)
Posted by: LMNOP
» maybe the pedophiles are the ones holding concrete blocks over the penises of strange boys
Posted by: Beck
» Last I checked, the Catholic Church has never been too liberal...
Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» go figure yourself, ya fundy puritan neo-taliban
Posted by: rugger
» There is really only one response to this....
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: There is really only one response to this....
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: Hmmm...Abtinence Doesn't Protect Children from Pedophiles
Posted by: helenwheels
» Great link - thanks (no text)
Posted by: LMNOP
» THANKS For GOP Pedophile Link!; RE: Hmmm...Abtinence Doesn't Protect Children from Pedophiles
Posted by: Elurby
» RE: Hmmm...Abtinence Doesn't Protect Children from Pedophiles
Posted by: songbird1268
» RE: Hmmm...Abtinence Doesn't Protect Children from Pedophiles
Posted by: Elurby
» RE: Hmmm...Abtinence Doesn't Protect Children from Pedophiles
Posted by: wwittman
» You are Certifiable, a blatant falsifier of Truth, how sad to be so ignorant of truth.
Posted by: Turiye
» RE: Hmmm...Abtinence Doesn't Protect Children from Pedophiles
Posted by: atomic
» We knew this was coming. After we made them get rid of the sheets.
Posted by: wolfgangmo
Comments are closed-
Posted by: jrmart on Aug 28, 2008 5:49 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When 13 and 14 year old have sex, this is SEXUAL AUTONOMY???
I deplore the radical Christian right but I deplore just as much those that see everything, every idea and every action of them as "scary" and vicious and mean minded and short sighted and conspiratorial.
If you think unbridled sexual activity of early teens is their right, is part of their "autonomy" then your a real danger.
The use of "slick" ads and promotions is used successfully and widely throughout the marketing world. Why is it wrong to use it to try to reach those impressionable minds?
Do You advocate teen sex?
Just what is wrong with using modern advertising techniques to teach sexual responsibility.
I am shocked to find this attitude in a forum that is usually sane if not fair and balanced.
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» RE: WRONG WRONG WRONG! Yeah, it's wrong to lie to kids. And is the brick a "modern ad technique?"
Posted by: Beck
» RE: "Abortion doesn't cause regret and depression"?
Posted by: Bonita
» RE: "Abortion doesn't cause regret and depression"?
Posted by: crashgrab
» All big life decisions have potential regret built into them. Why are some of you. . .
Posted by: Beck
» RE: All big life decisions have potential regret built into them. Why are some of you. . .
Posted by: crashgrab
» RE: WRONG WRONG WRONG! Yeah, it's wrong to lie to kids. And is the brick a "modern ad technique?"
Posted by: jrmart
» Puritans...
Posted by: wolfgangmo
» RE: WRONG WRONG WRONG!
Posted by: BeckyD
» You were taken aback because apparently you can't comprehend a complexity or sublety
Posted by: Beck
» RE: You were taken aback because apparently you can't comprehend a complexity or sublety
Posted by: BeckyD
» How did life reward the abstainers?
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: You were taken aback because apparently you can't comprehend a complexity or sublety
Posted by: jrmart
» RE: You were taken aback because apparently you can't comprehend a complexity or sublety
Posted by: BigElectricCat
» RE: WRONG WRONG WRONG!
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: WRONG WRONG WRONG!? Um, that'd be you...
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: WRONG WRONG WRONG!? Um, that'd be you...
Posted by: jrmart
» RE: WRONG WRONG WRONG!
Posted by: crashgrab
» No unbridled sex?
Posted by: LMNOP
» LMAO!!
Posted by: BreeMass
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Godfather89 on Aug 28, 2008 5:53 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is acting upon that lust on someone else that holds people down, not because you'll burn in hell when you die but because, it can lead to unwanted things like STD's, Unwanted Pregnancy, Relationship Problems (especially if you are with someone else). If your single and acting upon the lust after someone that you dont know from a hole in the wall than you put yourself at risk.
Plus their is scientific proof that people who love are far more happier than people who lust. Sexual Lust is more so a youth thing because as you get older the lust wheres down and most people come to realize that lust is not as powerful nor worth as much as love.
While I am not in a relationship right now, I have still abstained -despite the comprehensive sex ed- from sex, it is my belief that the religious right has no right to influence teens like this. It is also my belief that when I find the girl I love, I don't care if we are married or not, I will make love to her and I will not hold back nor be guilty for doing so.
So basically it needs some self-control.
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» RE: A little Something To know...
Posted by: dawnteach
» RE: A little Something To know...
Posted by: Gisele
» a "spiritual path"
Posted by: aislinnluv
» Ethnocentric
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: thnocentric
Posted by: Dboy
» RE: A little Something To know...
Posted by: wwittman
Comments are closed-
Posted by: dawnteach on Aug 28, 2008 5:55 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: your nuts
Posted by: soowee
» sadly...
Posted by: aislinnluv
» I rate this attempt a 4.5
Posted by: Curio
» RE: your nuts
Posted by: maestra
» RE: ; the nuts of teenage boys, it would seem
Posted by: Beck
» Let's try this again...
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: your nuts
Posted by: songbird1268
» RE: your nuts
Posted by: wwittman
» my nuts? what about them, you perv?
Posted by: LMNOP
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Posted by: maxpayne on Aug 28, 2008 6:07 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
P.S.: If we'd defeat the rightwingers at the economic, environmental, and foreign-policy levels, getting through the social issues would automatically be taken care of. And if it's any consolation, Bush has plenty of lapdogs in the DLC/BlueDoggy wing of the Democratic Party to "assist" him.
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Aug 28, 2008 6:39 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» or preach to the entire Bible Belt, with its higher abortion and crime and divorce rates
Posted by: Beck
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Posted by: grindermonkey on Aug 28, 2008 6:44 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» THONG EQUALS BURKA
Posted by: Rosasharn
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Posted by: southerndem on Aug 28, 2008 6:49 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Dumbest article ever?
Posted by: bornxeyed
» You're okay with ANYTHING? the concrete blocks, the lies? What HAPPENED to you people?
Posted by: Beck
» Umm..yeah...
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: Umm..yeah...at least, not this one
Posted by: Beck
» RE: Dumbest article ever! NOT!
Posted by: DaBear
» Dumbest response ever!
Posted by: aislinnluv
» RE: Dumbest article ever!
Posted by: wwittman
» RE: Dumbest article ever!
Posted by: crashgrab
» RE: Dumbest article ever!
Posted by: LMNOP
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Posted by: flagsmasher on Aug 28, 2008 6:54 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
. . . and yet . . .
teens who recieved Abstience Only education are:
twice as likely to have oral sex and
4 times as likely to do anal! (and unprotected too)
This is more "moral" than allowing teens to have acurate information about birth control?
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Posted by: 876 on Aug 28, 2008 6:59 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» No, creepy is when other people think they should raise MY kids, even thought theirs. . .
Posted by: Beck
» RE: No, creepy is when other people think they should raise MY kids, even thought theirs. . .
Posted by: 876
» Maybe we need to try another language.
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: No, creepy is when other people think they should raise MY kids, even thought theirs. . .
Posted by: 876
» RE: No, creepy is when other people think they should raise MY kids, even thought theirs. . .
Posted by: 876
» RE: No, creepy is when other people think they should raise MY kids, even thought theirs. . .
Posted by: emmas
» RE: Twice the Satisfaction
Posted by: BigElectricCat
» Now THAT'S how it's done!
Posted by: Curio
» Love it!!
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: 876
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: BreeMass
Posted by: 876
» RE: BreeMass
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: BreeMass
Posted by: BigElectricCat
» RE: "Promiscuous depravity"
Posted by: grindermonkey
» RE: 876
Posted by: crashgrab
» RE: 876
Posted by: AlineSE
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Posted by: 876 on Aug 28, 2008 7:01 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
She sounds like some sort of liberal pervert.
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» Not to mention...
Posted by: BreeMass
» And then you had to go too far...
Posted by: Curio
» Trollometrics
Posted by: LMNOP
» Freud, anyone?
Posted by: AlineSE
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Posted by: vasumurti on Aug 28, 2008 7:06 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami writes in The Path of Perfection:
"Yoga does not mean going to some class, paying some money, engaging in gymnastics, and then returning home to drink, smoke, and engage in sex. Such yoga is practiced by societies of the cheaters and the cheated...If one tells you that you can indulge in sex as much as you like and at the same time become a yogi, he is cheating you. If some so-called guru tells you to give him money in exchange for some mantra and that you can go on and engage in all kinds of nonsense, he is just cheating you. Because we want something sublime and yet want it cheaply, we put ourselves in a position to be cheated...if we want perfection in yoga, we have to pay for it by abstaining from sex. Perfection in yoga is not something childish, and Bhagavad-gita instructs us that if we try to make yoga into something childish, we will be cheated. There are many cheaters awaiting us, waiting to take our money, giving us nothing, and then leaving."
The apostle Paul similarly taught his followers to bless their persecutors and not curse them (Romans 12:14), to care for their enemies by providing them with food and drink (12:20), and to pay their taxes and obey all earthly governments (13:1-7). He mentioned giving all his belongings to feed the hungry (I Corinthians 13:3), and taught giving to the person in need (Ephesians 4:23). He told his followers it was wrong to take their conflicts before non-Christian courts rather than before the saints. (I Corinthians 6:1)
Paul wrote, "it is good for a man not to touch a woman," i.e., it is best to be celibate, but because of prevailing immoralities, marriage is allowed. Divorce is allowed in the case of an unbeliever demanding separation. (I Corinthians 7)
Paul repeatedly attacked sexual immorality:
"This is God's will--your sanctification, that you keep yourselves from sexual immorality, that each of you learn how to take his own wife in purity and honor, not in lustful passion like the gentiles who have no knowledge of God." (I Thessalonians 4:3-5)
Paul told his followers not to associate with sexually immoral people (I Corinthians 5:9-12, 6:15,18). He condemned homosexuality (Romans 1:24-27) and incest (I Corinthians 5:1).
"Make no mistake," warned Paul, "no fornicator or idolater, none who are guilty either of adultery or of homosexual perversion, no thieves or grabbers or drunkards or slanderers or swindlers, will possess the kingdom of God." (I Corinthians 6:9-10 [NEB])
Paul condemned wickedness, immorality, depravity, greed, envy, murder, quarreling, deceit, malignity, gossip, slander, insolence, pride (Romans 1:29-30), drunkenness, carousing, debauchery, jealousy (Romans 13:13), sensuality, magic arts, animosities, bad temper, selfishness, dissensions, envy (Galatians 5:19-21; greediness (Ephesians 4:19; Colossians 3:5), foul speech, anger, clamor, abusive language, malice (Ephesians 4:29-32), dishonesty (Colossians 3:13), materialism (I Timothy 6:6-11), conceit, avarice, boasting and treachery. (II Timothy 3:2-4)
Paul told the gentiles to train themselves for godliness, to practice self-control and lead upright, godly lives (Galatians 5:23; I Timothy 4:7; II Timothy 1:7; Titus 2:11-12). He instructed them to ALWAYS pray constantly. (I Thessalonians 5:17)
Women should cover their heads while worshipping, and long hair on males is dishonorable. (I Corinthians 11:5-14) Christian women are to dress modestly and prudently, and are not to be adorned with braided hair, gold or pearls or expensive clothes. (I Tim. 2:9)
My problem isn't with Christians unable to follow Paul, but the hypocrisy of saying "I believe" and ignoring what their religion dictates.
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» RE: the spirit versus the flesh
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Peter & Paul highjacked the Church and Crowned themelves
Posted by: Purple Girl
» RE: the spirit versus the flesh
Posted by: aki_no_kaze
» RELIGIOUS MIND POISON
Posted by: atomic
» RE: the spirit versus the flesh
Posted by: boing007
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Posted by: Ambercat on Aug 28, 2008 7:11 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Alarm misplaced... whose alarm is misplaced?
Posted by: DaBear
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Posted by: Peschko on Aug 28, 2008 7:17 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: American tactics?
Posted by: 876
» RE: American tactics?
Posted by: crashgrab
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Posted by: PaulK on Aug 28, 2008 7:24 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Issue two is whether we should set the dumbest bunnies up to fail in life. Do we actually educate, or do we smugly say "Told you so, slut" outside of Planned Parenthood?
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» Issue one isn't an issue
Posted by: Curio
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Posted by: GuitarBill on Aug 28, 2008 7:49 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: X-POLYGAMIST WIFE on Aug 28, 2008 7:50 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.bankingonheaven.com
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» Sorry, incorrect. Try again.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Sorry, incorrect. Try again.
Posted by: aki_no_kaze
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Posted by: luzmejor on Aug 28, 2008 7:58 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think the solution is quite clear.
We should move all these professional hand-wringers to Iraq, Iran, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, where the girls will be assaulted and killed regularly and they won't need to worry their pointy heads so much about "tight" clothing because girls are already dressed in the Oriental version of hooded white supremacists.
That kind of "christian" could be a lot happier where they can just kill women because they are there and the men feel insufficiently admired by strangers.
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» Gentle 876, you truly have no idea how you come off, do you?
Posted by: Beck
» RE: It is so hard for boys to be "visual"
Posted by: crashgrab
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Posted by: Purple Girl on Aug 28, 2008 8:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
BUT, when you are unwilling to use all methods available to combat both these problems, you motives must be suspect.
so if you discourage Birth control of all forms, and ignore the natural drive, you are working to INCREASE Preganancies.Reason sex Drive kicks in at puberty, because as a species we are capable for reproduction (Survival & Reproduction, basic drives of ALL Living things!)
Abstinence is a great supporting program, if conducted correctly.
End Abortions..Support Education AND
Birth control.
Otherwise you are just cheapening the Human Labor Commodity for the Corps Beenfit and Proving 'God' should have never left our species in charge as Stewards.That means being able to manage yourselves first!Otherwise you are throwing away the 'sense God Gave You'!!!
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» it's actually "forced birthers"
Posted by: goatini
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Posted by: jeffrey7 on Aug 28, 2008 8:08 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Teaching.
Bright side...if they get their followers to be abstinate there won't be many of them around to fuck things up for the rest of us.
They believe the Anti-Christ will come and they are waiting for him. Abstinance might make that not so...or maybe they just need to look into the mirror to see him.
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» RE: Only if they practice it amongst themselves
Posted by: emmas
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Posted by: hms2004 on Aug 28, 2008 8:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: xtine on Aug 28, 2008 8:52 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: xtinez
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: xtinez
Posted by: 2821ajk
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Posted by: Jbuuty on Aug 28, 2008 9:30 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: What ignorance
Posted by: BreeMass
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Posted by: BlueTigress on Aug 28, 2008 9:50 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Further, ones that are vicious or a nuisance are to be put down quickly and humanely.
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» RE: Boys as mindless sexual animals
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: Boys as mindless sexual animals
Posted by: Cathyblj
» RE: Boys as mindless sexual animals
Posted by: BlueTigress
» RE: Boys as mindless sexual animals
Posted by: Martin32
» RE: Boys as mindless sexual animals
Posted by: Martin32
» RE: Boys as mindless sexual animals
Posted by: BlueTigress
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Posted by: maxsmart on Aug 28, 2008 9:52 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: ninaalt on Aug 28, 2008 10:00 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Lastly, the proponents of this absurd sex education must know that those kids that are not having sex yet are having lots of oral sex, which also presents dangers to physical and mental sex.
These "teachers" live in a bubble and their plans are dangerous.
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Posted by: JerseyGuy on Aug 28, 2008 10:03 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.ffrf.org/fttoday/1998/jan_feb98/walker.html
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» great article, thank you!!
Posted by: goatini
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Posted by: gsong on Aug 28, 2008 10:50 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: GSong
Posted by: DaBear
» RE: GSong
Posted by: mercury613
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Posted by: Megnificent on Aug 28, 2008 10:52 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I didn't grow up with ANY sex education- abstinence or otherwise. Everything I learned I virtually taught myself. I had a very positive first sexual experience that I initiated. I talk to friends all the time (girls and boys) who had TERRIBLE stories of losing their virginity. Kinda makes one want to major in sex therapy!
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» Good point!
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: The Virtual Elephant on this Comment Board
Posted by: nen
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Posted by: DaBear on Aug 28, 2008 11:19 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Watch a few episodes of "Secret Life of the American Teenager" and the abstinence only bullshit is so thick I find myself in shock and disbelief. Aside from the shockingly horrible script (inexplicably "dropped out" plot points, dialogue smacking of 1st-year drama student work, overly simplistic story formation) and the caricatures of "adults", the "info" and thematic material in SLOTAT embodies in every way exactly what Valenti is exposing in the piece. We had to stop watching it, mainly because of it's seductive appeal to our tween daughter despite her awareness of the bullshit; she can now write a paper on the misinformation and disinformation the episodes foist on an audience but she isn't old enough yet to see the different between the "pretty main character" and the Xtian fundie agenda posing as a dramatic-comedy series (it's also arguable which the producers wanted, drama or comedy). It's damned scary sometimes.
Given ABC Family's lineup, I'm a little surprised Valenti didn't cite the series or the channel in the piece. Maybe those parts got cut by her editors (damned editors, always insisting that all readers have only short attention spans).
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» RE: The other weapon is the ABC Family channel
Posted by: realmuzik
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Posted by: tHetrIp on Aug 28, 2008 11:58 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In junior high, we had the police anti-drug presentation and laughed when one cop mispronounced "shrooms" and again when he passed around a bag of weed that was of such obviously poor quality, none of us - even at 13 years old - would even consider smoking it. Mission accomplished!
We had some douchebag show the entire school a series of accident photos - dead bodies, brains, and all - while talking about the dangers of drunk driving, and claiming - ludicrously - not to be using scare tactics, merely trying to "educate" us. He was booed.
We had the abstinence presentation in high school, which left everyone in the room praying: "God, if you're up there, and you're merciful, please provide me a good job, so I don't wind up some ridiculously-dressed, under-sexed, 20-something dork, jumping around cracking weak jokes for an unimpressed bunch of high-schoolers for my paychecque!"
Kids generally aren't stupid. They know bullshit when they see it and, as long as we foster a healthy suspicion of authority figures, we likely needn't worry about the "hip" and "savvy" new propaganda being thrown their way. Let these people keep shoveling money down the rat hole - just make sure it's their money and not yours.
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Posted by: Romans1 on Aug 28, 2008 11:59 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
She is also tired of picking up the pieces of her friends' shattered lives after they have made the decision to have sex before marriage. But she will continue to do so as long as she has to.
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