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Sex and Relationships

Why I Hate Beauty

By Michael Levine and Hara Estroff Marano, Psychology Today. Posted August 8, 2008.


Men are barraged by images of unobtainable women in the media, making it difficult for them to desire the ordinarily beautiful.
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Poets rave about beauty. Brave men have started wars over beauty. Women the world over strive for it. Scholars devote their lives to deconstructing our impulse to obtain it. Ordinary mortals erect temples to beauty. In just about every way imaginable, the world honors physical beauty. But I hate beauty.

I live in what is likely the beauty capital of the world and have the enviable fortune to work with some of the most beautiful women in it. With their smooth bodies and supple waists, these women are the very picture of youth and attractiveness. Not only are they exemplars of nature's design for detonating desire in men, but they stir yearnings for companionship that date back to ancestral mating dances. Still, beauty is driving me nuts, and although I'm a successful red-blooded American male, divorced and available, it is beauty alone that is keeping me single and lonely.

It is scant solace that science is on my side. I seem to have a confirmed case of the contrast effect. It doesn't make me any happier knowing it's afflicting lots of others too.

As an author of books on marketing, I have long known about the contrast effect. It is a principle of perception whereby the differences between two things are exaggerated depending on the order in which those things are presented. If you lift a light object and then a heavy object, you will judge the second object heavier than if you had lifted it first or solo.

Psychologists Sara Gutierres, Ph.D., and Douglas Kenrick, Ph.D., both of Arizona State University, demonstrated that the contrast effect operates powerfully in the sphere of person-to-person attraction as well. In a series of studies over the past two decades, they have shown that, more than any of us might suspect, judgments of attractiveness (of ourselves and of others) depend on the situation in which we find ourselves. For example, a woman of average attractiveness seems a lot less attractive than she actually is if a viewer has first seen a highly attractive woman. If a man is talking to a beautiful female at a cocktail party and is then joined by a less attractive one, the second woman will seem relatively unattractive.

The contrast principle also works in reverse. A woman of average attractiveness will seem more attractive than she is if she enters a room of unattractive women. In other words, context counts.

In their very first set of studies, which have been expanded and refined over the years to determine the exact circumstances under which the findings apply and their effects on both men and women, Gutierres and Kenrick asked male college dormitory residents to rate the photo of a potential blind date. (The photos had been previously rated by other males to be of average attractiveness.) If the men were watching an episode of Charlie's Angels when shown the photo, the blind date was rated less desirable than she was by males watching a different show. The initial impressions of romantic partners -- women who were actually available to them and likely to be interested in them -- were so adversely affected that the men didn't even want to bother.

Since these studies, the researchers have found that the contrast effect influences not only our evaluations of strangers but also our views of our own mates. And it sways self-assessments of attractiveness too.

Kenrick and Gutierres discovered that women who are surrounded by other attractive women, whether in the flesh, in films, or in photographs, rate themselves as less satisfied with their attractiveness -- and less desirable as a marriage partner. "If there are a large number of desirable members of one's own sex available, one may regard one's own market value as lower," the researchers reported in the Personality and Social Psychology Bulletin.

If you had to pick ground zero for the contrast effect, it would be Hollywood. To feed the film industry's voracious appetite for attractive faces, it lures especially beautiful women from around the world. And for those who don't arrive already at the pinnacle of perfection, whole industries exist here to render it attainable, to reshape faces and bodies to the prevailing standard of attractiveness.

There's an extraordinarily high concentration of gorgeous females in Los Angeles, and courtesy of the usually balmy weather and lifestyle, they tend to be highly visible -- and not just locally. The film and television industries project their images all over the world, not to mention all the supporting media dealing with celebrities and gossip that help keep them professionally viable.

As the head of a public relations agency, I work with these women day and night. You might expect that to make me feel good, as we normally like being around attractive people. But my exposure to extreme beauty is ruining my capacity to love the ordinarily beautiful women of the real world, women who are more likely to meet my needs for deep connection and partnership of the soul.

The contrast effect doesn't apply just to strangers men have yet to meet who might be most suitable for them. In studies, Gutierres and Kenrick have found that it also affects men's feelings about their current partner. Viewing pictures of attractive women weakens their commitment to their mates. Men rate themselves as being less in love with their partner after looking at Playboy centerfolds than they did before seeing the pictures of beautiful women.


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View:
Beauty?
Posted by: Tom Degan on Aug 8, 2008 12:29 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These so called "unobtainable women" in the media leaved me stumped, to day the least. Take Madonna. Please.

For the record: She and I were both born on August 16, 1958. We both will be turning fifty a week from tomorrow. It speaks volumes that the reigning "sex queen" of my generation is a woman I wouldn't give a second look at if she were the last gal at the bar at closing time and I had a quart of vodka in me.

The two most beautiful women in the world live right here in Orange County, New York. One is my ex-girlfriend, Virginia. The other is an elementary school teacher who lives around the corner from me.

Audrey Hepburn is dead and she's not coming back.

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY.
Coming of Age In The Sixties

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» RE: Beauty? Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: Beauty? Posted by: badkitty68
» RE: Beauty? Posted by: bomec
» RE: Beauty? Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: Beauty? Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» RE: Beauty? Posted by: donnee
» RE: Beauty? Posted by: bomec
» RE: Beauty? Posted by: Grandma Crabby
» RE: Beauty? Posted by: Yam
» RE: Beauty? Posted by: Grandma Crabby
» RE: Beauty? Posted by: Tom Degan
» Happy Birthday, Emiliano Posted by: Moore Hognutz
» RE: Beauty? Posted by: john mont
I'm Not Buying
Posted by: NoPCZone on Aug 8, 2008 12:48 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Beauty is subjective and although some may be susceptible to the image projected by mass media and norms, all of us are not. Maybe it just goes to how one defines beauty.

I would contend that a static picture cannot reflect beauty any more than taste can reflect motion. Beauty is more than physical appearance- it's bearing, countenance, confidence, personality and other factors as well as mere appearance. A woman of what is considered by many to be plain that projects confidence and a warm, engaging personality is far more beautiful than some tarted up model/actress-type.

Can I explain it? Not really, but I find it to be true.

The old joke about beauty being only skin deep while ugly goes to the bone may have a speck of truth in it. How many of us have seen a 'first glance' attractive person that upon observation is a a repulsive, manipulative, egotistic brat- a user and manipulator of people. Maybe they meet your definition of beautiful, but I don't and I doubt that I'm alone.

The merely physical I would ascribe the title of attractive to and reserve beauty only for one experienced in an unscripted observation through time.

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» RE: I'm Not Buying Posted by: lrubemp
» RE: I'm Not Buying Posted by: annavan1
The reality
Posted by: glowforever on Aug 8, 2008 2:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
interesting article. Yet I disagree that L.A. has the most beautiful, they may have the most "made-up". Some of those same "unobtainable" women don't look so hot, without their hair dye, make-up, breast jobs and liposuction. Hollywood's notion of beauty is biased and racist, as a woman of color I rarely see other races celebrated and it's pitiful. That is why I stopped buying magazines.

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» RE: The reality Posted by: ArtemInox
» RE: The reality Posted by: Yam
» RE: The reality Posted by: alternitpic
» Beyonce...? Posted by: mjabele
» RE: Beyonce...? Posted by: Mel H.
All women can be beautiful
Posted by: Bobsays on Aug 8, 2008 2:32 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just go to a country where the majority of the female population is physically fit, dresses well, and have good hygiene habits (Northern Europe for example). And you will find that the vast majority of women are beautiful and physically appealling. What is the problem is the massive increase in obesity, bad style sense and poor hygience habits. These things lead to ugly women. Militant feminists do not help the issue, by writing drivel defending people being fat. There is no excuse to being overweight. Go out and take a walk!

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» I'm not fat Posted by: Bobsays
» RE: I'm not fat Posted by: NoKidding
» RE: I'm not fat Posted by: ArtemInox
» RE: All women can be beautiful Posted by: beautifulady2003
» Brilliant response Posted by: Bobsays
Sorry, this comment has been removed from the system.
» RE: Sorry, Fat AND Beautiful Here!!! Posted by: beautifulady2003
» RE: All women can be beautiful Posted by: morticia
» RE: All women can be beautiful Posted by: cmaciain
» RE: All women can be beautiful Posted by: ArtemInox
» RE: Women are just making excuses Posted by: chrysalis124812
Why does the author hate beauty?
Posted by: weathered on Aug 8, 2008 2:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hate is an irresponsible word to describe something we all have. We're beautiful, we're ugly, there's the warts, the elegance its all there on the inside.

The authors 'hates' what he can't have, well that's too bad - don't be so vanity obsessed, look at Leona Hemlsley for all that she had she remained bankrupt, self-love and respect eluded her and it showed.

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» And the answer is... Posted by: MartianBachelor
Many American "Beauties" Move To England And Just Mingle With The Crowd
Posted by: opmoc on Aug 8, 2008 3:32 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Where they remain unrecognised most of the time.

The problem with many Americans is that they have got their head so firmly stuck up their own backsides that their perception of beauty is based only around their limited visibilty.

See the movie American Beauty for an explanation, and wonder why Kevin Spacey has been running a little theatre in a grotty part of South London for the last few years.

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Grow up.
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Aug 8, 2008 3:42 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article sounds like it was written by a 17-year-old. Not all of us have been brainwashed by the Hollywood, twiggy vanilla-blond standard. Some of those statistics may be interesting, but I don't think they speak for all men.

I find some of the women I see every day to be far more attractive than the ones I read about in the grocery line or in the movies. And if you've ever seen international news clips of peasant women in Afghanistan, India, or Brazil, I don't see how you can even remember where to find LA on a map.

As for the theory about distorting our interest in our mate or the pool of potential mates, I'll also have to disagree. We may be pigs in the sense that we like to look at babes. But most of the men I know are perfectly capable of loving their wives and girlfriends the way they are without holding them to Hollywood or other media standards.

You don't have to hate beauty just because it's there. It's as if the author has been reading too many feminist articles, and doesn't understand how to work the switches inside the mature male brain.

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» RE: Grow up. Posted by: jpjmarti
» The error of your post Posted by: maddy
Does Age play a role?
Posted by: vksa on Aug 8, 2008 4:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is something I would like to know - in particular, how old most of you poster so far are. I ask because your opinions seem to be more of the 'Wow, I can't believe these authors believe this mold, whereas I am only 25, and I can personally vouch that, being in college, and interacting with guys my age and younger on a regular basis, and myself having very high physical standards for any female I'd even consider flirting wit, this article quite squarely hits the mark.

I've been guilty of it until I cut my feeding tube from the MSM, but many...MANY guys roaming my campus cannot be mentally that far from the several I know, who as easily compare a passing girl (or simply her individual features) to that of models and celebs. I put it forward that this is due to my generation being exposed to the MSM on a daily basis since we were toddlers...and even those young men born after me, since they first could focus their sight.

Our perceptions of women I believe differ from even the immediately preceding generation's in that between tabloids - print and broadcast, reality TV, increasingly accessible porn, etc, our superficial basis of judgment of potential mates is based on a much deeper indoctrination of optimal 'beauty' than in generations of men before.

The effects? I believe the article touched upon it again - I personally know at least 5 or 6 young women who are single, and have been consistently for years - women who are mostly average-looking , or gorgeous in one case, but some physical feature helps maintain their single status. Be it a few extra pounds...and actually, that's the culprit in all of their cases truth be told (I tried to think of any others...but nada), I think my generation's standards have been widely artificially inflated. And these are women of various ethnic backgrounds, personal achievement, and personalities, only 2-3 of whom know one another - but all single. And not a single one is conventionally 'ugly'...just 'average.'

Too 'average' to be tolerated though, evidently.

Thoughts?

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» RE: Does Age play a role? Posted by: beautifulady2003
» hey beautiful lady Posted by: o
» RE: hey beautiful lady Posted by: beautifulady2003
» RE: hey beautiful lady Posted by: anneliese-nyc
» RE: Does Age play a role? Posted by: lkagy
» RE: Does Age play a role? Posted by: craighorowitz
» RE: Does Age play a role? Posted by: donnee
Now I get it
Posted by: beautifulady2003 on Aug 8, 2008 4:54 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"So the women men count as possibilities are not real possibilities for most of them. That leads to a lot of guys sitting at home alone with their fantasies of unobtainable supermodels, stuck in a secret, sorry state that makes them unable to access real love for real women."

This explains a lot. For one thing, it explains why so many middle-aged guys seem to only be attracted to the young and beautiful, and so few to women of their own age and comparable attributes. Men are very visually-oriented in their sexuality, and their habit of looking at beautiful women may be actually self-defeating because it could cause them to remain in their lonely state.

Perhaps our society needs to evolve into a less adolescent attitude as to what is beautiful. Smiles are beautiful, as are eyes, hands, laughter, kindness, and a good sense of humor. Some are physical features, but others are also there if a person cares to take a second look.

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» RE: Now I get it Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: Now I get it Posted by: Catwoman
» RE: Now I get it Posted by: beautifulady2003
» RE: Now I get it Posted by: beautifulady2003
» RE: Now I get it Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: Now I get it Posted by: 6399
» RE: Now I get it Posted by: beautifulady2003
» RE: Now I get it Posted by: nochicagoboys
Gee
Posted by: wal55 on Aug 8, 2008 4:56 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Perhaps this is a naturally subtle method of containing population growth: if a substantial part of the population maintains unrealistic expectations for mating, that might contribute to a lower birth rate...

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» RE: Gee Posted by: beautifulady2003
this article......
Posted by: blueglass on Aug 8, 2008 5:06 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
makes me grateful I'm a lesbian.....

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» Why? Posted by: kepstein7777
» RE: Why? Posted by: beautifulady2003
» RE: Why? Posted by: blueglass
» RE: Why? Posted by: beautifulady2003
» RE: Why? Posted by: blueglass
Beauty as a civil rights issue?
Posted by: chorton on Aug 8, 2008 5:21 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have at times amused myself by noticing the faces, sizes and shapes of women - and men - I encounter in movies and in real life and building rough statistics. In particular what I speculated about is how many features which have nothing to do with our innate perceptions of beauty come in so much wider a range of variations in real life than in movies. For example, in real life women's noses range from big to small, long to short, wide to thin, none of which has anything to do with our hardwired perceptions of beauty. Yet it is not just in Charlies Angels that Hollywood noses all fall within a very restricted range of sizes and shapes; so do the noses of the hundreds of extras playing the roles of ordinary people in movies, movies that ostensibly are presenting scenes of everyday life. Tens of millions of dollars are spent to create a scene that will look "exactly the way it was", and then it gets populated with this bizarre subset of "beautiful people" that has never existed anywhere outside of Hollywood!

Once one focuses on this phenomenon, the Hollywood world which seems so pleasantly normal suddenly stands out as a bizarre and artificial abstraction on real life. Is this a trivial issue? Not when one considers the pain and disruption caused to the vast majority of women, whose self-image is damaged or even devastated by their perception that they are ugly, that their appearances do not come close to matching this Hollywood ideal. Not to the millions of children who grow up fatherless because their parents' marriage failed at least in part due to some combination of the father's dissatisfaction with the mother's appearance and the mother's inability to believe that she deserves love.

Norman Rockwell's painting of the teenage girl in obvious distress studying her face in a mirror, with a picture of a Hollywood glamor queen propped up beside it, captures the pain and destruction of this process. Multiply that moment of pain by a few billion people and a hundred odd years. What a disaster! And what an opportunity to make huge profits selling an endless array of products and services to distraught consumers urgently trying to fix this artificially-created problem!

Hollywood's defenders argue that what we see on the silver screen and the idiot box reflects what audiences demand; no one will go to the movies to see a bunch of "ugly" people! This may be reality for the maker of a particular movie, but nevertheless the power of Hollywood to define what is beautiful or ugly is enormous, and this cannot be blamed on biology and hard-wired brains. That this is so can be seen in the transformation that has occurred over the course of my lifetime in the perceptions of "Afro-Americans".

It was not so long ago that it was perfectly normal to view a world on the silver screen and the small screen where everyone, often 100%, was "white", where no one had any features that could identify them as having any trace of African, Native American or Asian ancestry. Before Sidney Poitier, in the "mainstream" movie houses and TV, there were with rare exceptions no "Negro" movie stars whatsoever! In that time, nearly all "whites" and many, perhaps most "Blacks" viewed African features as ugly. It is hard now to remember not being able to see the beauty in them, but nevertheless it was so.

This change was not the result of cultural forces; it was brought about by a political movement, involving thousands, millions of people, over the course of decades, demanding the inclusion of Afro-Americans in the entertainment industry. Perhaps it is time for a movement to demand of Hollywood that the images they present us with on TV and the silver screen reflect the full range of people in the real world, not just in skin color but in nose type, chin type, height, hair type and everything else!

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My Litmus Test
Posted by: terradea42 on Aug 8, 2008 5:24 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The author has revealed my litmus test for men! If a man is attracted to beautiful young women but fails to appreciate a wildly sexy, amazingly entertaining and much sought after woman in her late 40s, then that man has not evolved enough for me to go out with him. This elegant, foolproof method for dating has never failed me, and I date only the most gorgeous men.

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Shallow males an endangered species?
Posted by: scheherezade on Aug 8, 2008 5:29 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So the women men count as possibilities are not real possibilities for most of them. That leads to a lot of guys sitting at home alone with their fantasies of unobtainable supermodels, stuck in a secret, sorry state that makes them unable to access real love for real women.

Sounds like male shallowness could become an unsuccessful evolutionary trait.

Perhaps, if we're lucky, those males most likely to be moping on the sofa won't ever pass their genes on...thus improving the genome for all of us.

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» It's not shallow... Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: It's not shallow... Posted by: cmaciain
Beauty Is In The Mind. Your Mind Has Been Programmed By The Media.
Posted by: opmoc on Aug 8, 2008 5:29 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It affects women far more than men. It's about conforming to the norm - just like all the other sheep.

We all have our basic personality on top of our appearence, which is programmed by a combination of our inherited genetics and the way we are brought up.

A massive part of how we appear to others comes from how we feel about ourselves. We can drastically change the image we present.

A brilliant actress - no matter what age - if she really adopts the role - such that when she is playing it she really believes she is that person - can present the appearence of total beauty or total ugliness.

Yet she is exactly the same person - with the same basic appearence.

The make up is only a side dressing - the real beauty comes from within.

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What I hate
Posted by: Razst on Aug 8, 2008 5:36 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't hate beauty. I only hate articles about hating beauty.

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» RE: I Hate What... Posted by: ranchero42
Our idea of "Beauty" has been programed into us
Posted by: Lilykins on Aug 8, 2008 5:55 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We have been brainwashed by the media into believeing that young absoulutely perfect skin is normal on women, that wrinkles and gray hair are beautiful on men (to some extent to make them apprear distinguished).
Pert, gravity-defying breasts that normally appear on newly mentruating girls should be how all women's breasts are supposed to look. We find skinny women with protruding bones "sexy" and dismiss healthy looking women as being ugly or fat.
I can't imaging that in our natural state we would think a 95lb, 5'8" woman would be attractive! We would normally think she was malnutritioned or diseased, NOT "sexy"!
There are some people that have avoided the brainwashing, and that does make their lives easier.

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what double standards!
Posted by: mtngrl on Aug 8, 2008 6:03 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm a female who is considered fairly attractive by most people (so I've been told, anyway) and is middle aged and happily married. I do workout and have healthy habits and a healthy weight.

I cannot help but notice the complete and ridiculous double standard that exists in the media regarding what constitutes "beauty" for women vs men. Pick up any women's magazine and you'll see articles like "How to Please Your Husband in Bed' right next to "Lose 10 lbs in A Day" which is listed next to "Our Best Chocolate Dessert Recipes". Huh? What conflicting messages!

The men's magazines have articles like " We Interview 10 Hot Models", "What to Say to Her the Morning After" (one night stand) and possibly "Macho Workout". I've NEVER seen an article in a men's magazine about how to please a WIFE!

One other case in point, publications ALWAYS show older men with much younger women, never vice versa. Even a staid catalog like LL Bean is guilty of this.

I guess older wealthy men and younger hot women are the ones who
have it made in our society. The rest of us who are older women, people of color, and senior citizens are considered unworthy....

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» RE: what double standards! Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: what double standards! Posted by: beautifulady2003
Where are the hips?
Posted by: Nicnic on Aug 8, 2008 6:07 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bimbo boobs are for boys and hallowed hips are for men. The former is more visual and visceral and the later more mysterious and meaningful. And that's almost the end of the story.

In case anyone hasn't noticed, women around the world are loosing their hips. They are becoming less womanly. This is due largely to diets increasingly composed of excessive yin substances like sugars, fats and dairy. These poor women are raised on soda (the wretched corn syrup), cheap overly processed carbohydrates and lots of dairy. Their growth energy from an early age becomes vertical and exaggerated as opposed horizontal and steady. The pelvis is robbed of the growth energy it needs to widen and is redistributed higher in the body, or the region of the chest.

It's quite sad to see all these young women walking around in what they think are sexy shorts when the truth is they still look like children with their stovepipe elongated torsos that bypass the hips and go straight to the thighs. For a real man who has a real focus on a real woman this is anything but desirable. Not surprisingly the mindset of younger males has likewise been affected. The reality for both will be in the birthing process.

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» RE: Where are the hips? Posted by: jroth420
» RE: Where are the hips? Posted by: nezuminico
Childishness, from start to finish.
Posted by: nh on Aug 8, 2008 6:11 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This man wants us to believe that because he is surrounded by "beautiful women", he is compelled to behave like a textbook responder and cannot see "normal" women as beautiful, leaving him sad and lonely. Hollywood has ruined "beauty" for him.

It's laughable. Everyone knows Hollywood "beauty" is barely skin deep, created by trainers, plastic surgeons, makeup artists and image consultants. It's a created look, meant to market products (clothes, movies, lifestyle purchases) through an advertising image, i.e., the young woman (who is rarely a plausible consumer, unless she is empowered by...some older man's money, perhaps?)

They're selling a fantasy, and this guy knows it. So is it really so impossible to live in a reality-based world, even if you live in L.A.?! Even if everything he says about "studies" is true, all it takes to be free of that influence is to grow up, pal. Blaming the industry for your childish unwillingness to face your own relationship issues is a farce, considering that you chose that as a career, and your wistful mightabeens at the end just made me LOL!

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What's wrong with a man or woman looking beautiful?
Posted by: jwverez on Aug 8, 2008 6:21 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Beauty is what brought my wife and I together. Even after losing two legs and an arm in Vietnam, I didn't give up trying to recover some handsome looks and my wife deeply admired my strength in not giving up. It's bad enough that if a man looks more handsome, he's written off as "gay" whereas if a woman isn't "beautiful" enough, she's SOL. However, if we're gonna distinguish between beautiful and being too lustrous, we gotta draw a line somewhere.

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What you see is not what you get
Posted by: taxidriver on Aug 8, 2008 6:28 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have a friend whose sister works with female models. She told him, basically, "You should see them when they come to work, before the makeup, hair styling, and all the other primping."

Men need to grow up and recognize the "cover girls" are not as amazing as they seem. A photographer takes hundred of photos, sometimes thousands, to get the one, "magical" shot. Then that photo is often "enhanced," with creative airbrushing. (Remember how Katie Couric "lost" about 20 pounds when a well-meaning but dumb refinisher "slimmed" her photo, using digital technology?)

Of course, there's no denying there are beautiful men and women. Most of us would agree Heath Ledger was a hunk; and that Jessica Alba is a babe. But even the hunkiest guy or the prettiest gal can look ugly real fast if they're bossy, abusive, selfish, mean, greedy, etc.

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Beautiful? You mean white.
Posted by: Pinorrow on Aug 8, 2008 6:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The image of beauty you get in Los Angeles is of tall, skinny, white women with northern European features. Venture out into the world a little and your idea of beauty wouldn't be limited to someone who looks like Kate Moss (who isn't too sexy, if you ask me).

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What was Left Out
Posted by: badkitty68 on Aug 8, 2008 6:35 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The article seemed to be solely focused on male perception and biases resulting from media programming. Where is the research about how women evaluate men based on media images? It tends to reinforce the sexist, cultural norm of women being commodities to be evaluated for market value, based solely on appearance.
If people would spend some time thinking about how we are all intensely impacted psychologically by the media, which reduces everything and every being into products for consumption, we would all benefit greatly. We have to be willing to choose actual life experiences over non-stop fantasy entertainment, and see through the number corporate puppeteers are running on our heads.
Some of the most intensely sexy, intensely appealing men that I have had the pleasure to be involved with would not be meeting any GQ standards of male attractiveness. But I was enthralled with them because of who they were, what they cared about, their energy, charisma, and their sense of humor, charm, and manners (I know, so outdated).
The self-absorbed, "perfect 10" mannequin is soooo boring and tedious. Give me the unconventional, brainy, funny, crazy, passionate mess any day.
Anna
The Mills River Progressive

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» RE: What was Left Out Posted by: Q30
» RE: What was Left Out Posted by: janvdb
» RE: What was Left Out Posted by: cmaciain
» Yup Posted by: Q30
» RE: What was Left Out Posted by: badkitty68
» RE: You make your own money... Posted by: annavan1
» RE: What was Left Out Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: What was Left Out Posted by: 6399
» RE: What was Left Out Posted by: cmaciain
» You're kidding, right? Posted by: annavan1
» RE: Martian Bachelor Posted by: badkitty68
» RE: actually, it does... Posted by: Durga_is_my_homey
Beauty as coercion, not vulnerability
Posted by: daniel347x on Aug 8, 2008 6:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The research described here is immensely valuable, but it is flawed.

There are a number of points to be made.

The context in which men view and perceive physical beauty in women is of paramount importance, but a far more important aspect of a man's environment than the physical characteristics of women in that environment is the community rootedness and the sense of meaning and engagement in that environmnent.

In the U.S., we live in a society that has destroyed community, arguably more so than almost any other country in the world, including the poorest countries. The form of sexuality that is considered beautiful in this environment is plasticized, devoid of character, acts to conceal emotional reality and forms an impenetrable shield against vulnerability.

The purpose of healthy sexuality is to express vulnerability and open the door to emotional reality. When sexuality has not been corrupted and distorted, young attractive women are not perceived as untouchable idols. They are integrated into the community, because a little communication among people in a community is the antidote to the perverse tendency to wield sexuality as a weapon - for both men and women. In such a community, women would not walk around in high heels, fully shaven, using makeup to exacerbate impenetrability - rather than vulnerability - and gripped with fear. Women today are encouraged to use sexuality as a weapon, to use it to destroy community and privatize privilege. The social mechanisms by which sexuality is coerced out of young women to feed the isolation machine has become an industry in which women's sexuality has now become a destructive force in society.

The women in Hollywood movies and fashion magazines are not sexually attractive in the way that sexuality would be expressed in a healthy society. Sexuality has been corrupted in our society, as food has been, and men's perception that fashion models are attractive is an indication that men in our culture are not sexually developed, in the same way that our food diet is one of the unhealthiest in the world, or in the same way that somebody who never exercises is not physically developed.

Therefore, the results of the research studies cited in this article identifying the effects of male perceptions of beauty are flawed. These studies reveal instead something very different: in a social environment stripped of community and meaningful engagement, men have lost their sensibility to the connection between sexuality and vulnerability, and instead respond only to the aspect of sexuality that implies power and coercion.

Sexuality can be used as coercion, to stimulate a response that only seems sexually attractive in the context of an environment in which vulnerability and emotion is suppressed and in which the sexually attractive individual is perceived to be in a position of privilege and power in that environment.

There are other equally potent aspects of sexuality that lead to equally intense sexual desire, with a different conception of beauty than the Hollywood ideal.

Failing to recognize the dimensions of sexual attractiveness and failing to describe the fact that men and women both generally have a stunted and undeveloped sexual self whose primary purpose has been directed towards survival in a competitive, dehumanizing social environment, the authors make the mistake of confusing what should be considered a social analysis, with an analysis that makes the false assumption of a universal measure of sexual attractiveness. The author writes, they're just giving us what we are naturally interested in. This is false.

(continued...apologies for long posting)

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(continued)
Posted by: daniel347x on Aug 8, 2008 6:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
(continued...apologies for long posting)

The author discusses the concept that beauty could make so many men so miserable, but fails to recognize that beauty as defined by fashion models is not true beauty - it is sexuality being wielded as a weapon, to hide vulnerability and contribute to an isolating social environment in which discussion of social issues is off the table. Therefore, the author does not draw the proper conclusion. When this concept of beauty is coerced upon men through the scientifically developed industry of the mass media, it creates a highly oppressive and debilitating social environment for men, as well as for women.

The author also makes an incidental comment that women are bombarded with images of socially powerful men. This staggering reality is a massively oppressive force in our society. It encourages men to be manipulative and coercive in a psychotic and antisocial work environment, and it induces women to express their sexuality in coercive and destructive ways.

Finally, the author writes about the biological basis of physical attributes identified as "beautiful". There is a more important biological basis to sexual attractiveness that stems from the sense of meaning associated with community rootedness.

Dan Nissenbaum

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» RE: (continued) Posted by: Lilykins
» RE: (continued) Posted by: daniel347x
» RE: (continued) Posted by: Lilykins
» RE: (continued) Posted by: daniel347x
» RE: (continued) Posted by: Lilykins
» RE: (continued) Posted by: daniel347x
» RE: (continued) Posted by: Lilykins
» RE: (continued) Posted by: daniel347x
» RE: (continued) Posted by: daniel347x
» RE: (continued) Posted by: LLKimmel
Eye of the Beholder is the Media
Posted by: nfamous on Aug 8, 2008 6:45 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Men have had their perception of beauty warped by the media. Non-black males think of beauty as tan, usually long hair, large breasts (usually fake) and a small butt. Black males are somewhat different. In general we prefer women thicker but maybe that's because that's what we normally see the most. Black men are into tiny waists , big butts, medium to large natural breasts, long hair and any skin complexion. Black men have someone escaped the European standardization of beauty through our own isolation in this white dominated culture. No one really escapes though.

The authors here are exactly right. I am in the same situation as an intelligent, funny 38 year old SBPM. I never think the women I find attractive will also find me attractive because I don't look like that male models on tv and in movies. Now I'm working out all the time in a desperate attempt to make feel more deserving of a beautiful woman. People will say this is my fault and that I have self-esteem issues. Wrong. I'm a very confident person.

This is a result of the media completely taking the non-physical aspects of beauty out of the picture. Men only see the physical so that's all that most beautiful women give us. And to call them beautiful is inaccurate. It is a false standard that has been erected over time through some quasi-agreement between males. We learn some of it and some of it is evolution but it does cause one to devalue less attractive women.

Me and my friends don't even want female friends that are not attractive. Why? Because you have to spend a lot of time with someone to be a real friend. Why would you spend time with unattractive women when you know you don't want to have sex with them or be in a relationship with them merely based on looks? People are very busy these days and we don't have time to waste on people with no potential as mates. Men have become self-limited but I disagree with the author that this is largely evolution. I believe this is just a way for the elite, who pay hundreds of millions of dollars to Ivy League Phd researchers for human behavior modification techniques, to decrease the human population.

Men will never think they deserve beautiful women and beautiful women will continue to get so much attention that they too in turn believe no one deserves them except the most tall, tan and chiseled men out there. It's too bad for them that most of those men are gay.

I don't like to talk about problems without offering solutions but in this case there are not many practical ones. One is to simply tune out of the media as much as possible. It doesn't work well because men still have the images in our minds and our friends keep refreshing them to us. Of course there is the porn stash we need because we aren't having regular sex because we have set out standards too high.

The second is for the media to stop the barrage of unrealistic beauty. These so-called beautiful women do not look like what we see most of the time. Their breasts are fake. Their lips are fake. Their skin is fake with foundation and make-up. Their lips are a fake color. Their nails are fake. Their hair is fake. They even have fake butts now. I'm not saying they all take part in all of these but all of them take part in at least the makeup ruse. Having said that, the media will not stop its barrage because its what men desire even if they end up single and lonely as a result. The elite could care less. They are just happy that people are not forming meaningful bonds that could lead to stronger local communities that eventually could expand to overthrow them once we all got on the same page.

Women are the last possibility. Women can just say no to being objectified but that won't happen either. The women in LA need the money, just like the women in porn and they will continue to provide these unrealistic images of themselves to Pavlovian men.

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Waaaah!!
Posted by: popeurbanxxiii on Aug 8, 2008 6:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The author seems to be saying, "Poor, poor, pitiful me!" I withhold my pity, but my contempt is another thing. Maybe if I were surrounded by plastic Barbies 24/7, I might become deformed and dysfunctional too.

I find that "Woman" -- in a very generic and architypal way -- is the very earthly embodiment of beauty. Of course there is a spectrum of beauty, but every woman who walks this earth is beautiful to me to some degree.

I don't know how many men I speak for (not that that matters in the least to me), but I find the bleach-blonde, fake breast look to be a bit of a turn-off. Give me a woman who has confidence, humor, and a sense of style any day.

And as many posters have noted, there is indeed a double standard when it comes to men.

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Skewed Evidence
Posted by: o on Aug 8, 2008 6:48 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
in gathering evidence from college professors theyve overlooked the fact that the young women necessarily react differently to people who control their grades. in real life the situation is reversed; so the study is interesting but in generalizing it there is a problem.

most men on an average NYC sidewalk see many beautiful women who dont pander to them at all.

in situations where women are encouraged to ingratiate themselves the effect on the men is probably significantly different from just seeing a couple of nice faces.

and maybe these college professors wives' leave THEM due to the attitude they acquire, an expectation of deferment, rather than the assumption that the study makes about the dissatisfaction with the superficial look of their mates. i dont know, but it does open more questions than it answers.

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» RE: Skewed Evidence Posted by: jfkeeler
Disarming women by ignoring them
Posted by: nfamous on Aug 8, 2008 7:06 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Whether humans want to admit or not we are the lab rats in an awful experiment by the elite to make us miserable so they can have as many single workers as possible, each spending their own money, paying their own taxes and rejecting collectivism at any level. Sex has become nothing more than a way to relieve stress from work, not a way to express love to someone. It has become nothing but the physical need of a release. Men are women all over this country are in completely emotionally void arrangements where they agree to sexually satisfy each other for no other reason than they like each others' bodies. Most of them actually dislike each other. The only real solution to this problem may be allowing evolution to do its job over thousands of years to help us adapt to this media-sponsored madness.

What many men have done and is highly effective is just ignoring beautiful women. It completely disarms beautiful, who only have their beauty as a weapon. Once men take that away from them they become completely vulnerable and then men abuse them to no end. It works like a charm. You just have to be around beautiful women enough so that they notice that you are ignoring them. Beautiful women are constantly being approached by pimps and players. They are attracted to anything else and that is men that ignore them and who are not phased by their beauty.

Women have absolutely no defense to this male technique. It works almost every time because most beautiful women have nothing else to fall back on. Men get the sex they want without the relationship and women walk away defeated, angry and bitter for having fallen for the ruse. Of course they go right off again and commit the same offense to themselves. The cycle continues.

The only thing that may alter this perversion of humanity is if the United States becomes a Third World country. It already seems to be in the works. Other countries are coming up while we are sinking down as part of the elite's plan of globalization. Once everyone is pretty much as the same income level then single women won't be able to afford these falsifications of beauty or not as much. Maybe them, out of necessity, men will start approaching the less attractive women more which will in turn make the shallow women less shallow. It's time we took the money and corporations out of sex. They don't belong there.

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» You're a creep Posted by: janvdb
» Why is it a battle? Posted by: mcubed
I Guess I Look Pretty Weird - But I Don't Care
Posted by: opmoc on Aug 8, 2008 7:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was down a pub a few weeks ago watching a band and this bloke was trying to wind me up - calling me Dumber (presumably from the Film Dumb & Dumber)

So I said - well how old are you?

He said 38. He then said well how old are you - I bet you are younger than me!

I told him how old I was

He replied.

"You Fucking Lying Bastard"

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» Let Me Explain Posted by: opmoc
Men are just stupid
Posted by: janvdb on Aug 8, 2008 7:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
OK, so this thing is making you miserable.

It is based on a logical error of your brain -- your brain isn't properly distinguishing between "real" and "unreal" women.

Your brain is doing something stupid.

Women on TV, in magazines and on the internet are NOT available to you to screw.

Duh!!!!

So, realize this. Stop being stupid.

Problem solved.

Jan VanDenBerg

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» I like your thinking Posted by: suprmark
» RE: Women are just stupid . . . Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: Women are just stupid . . . Posted by: badkitty68
» I feel stupid asking this. Posted by: mcartri
Deciding what's attractive
Posted by: joncehart on Aug 8, 2008 7:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I found the article rather pointless because of its basic frame.

I am wondering why do we think we are so fixed in how we respond to stimuli of any kind. We're not robots; we have the capacity to change our conditioning. Conditioning is a large part of what this article is talking about, but as if that's what we are stuck with. It's as if we can't grow up and change what turns us on sexually.

I am a white, 66byear-old male who has recently become interested in observing how he is programmed to respond to images of female (in person and in pictures; clothed and naked). Programmed both by my culture and by my deference to that programming. Rather fascinated with my current stupidity and passivity, primarily for not recognizing until now that this is stuff I can change and I would be so much better off. Now I know what I need to work on.

joncehart

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» RE: Deciding what's attractive Posted by: Lilykins
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Posted by: doodahman on Aug 8, 2008 7:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Okay, so people prefer more beautiful to less beautiful if forced to compare? I have to say, I've read a lot of stupid shit in over a decade of web surfing, but this ranks in the top ten.

The levels on which this piece is meaningless tripe are so numerous that one knows not where to begin. How about the fact that 90% of non-rich people date, copulate with, marry and procreate with people who are not in the top 10% most "beautiful people"-- by definition. And about 100% of everyone fantasizes about somebody other than the person they happen to be dating, copulating with, marring and siring?

Frankly, I liked this concept a lot better when it was called, "The Time Machine."

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Duh!
Posted by: donnee on Aug 8, 2008 7:28 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Any woman who hasn't already figured this out by the time she is twelve, would have to be catatonic or have lived under a rock.
That it took a white Jewish male from New York to think he has discovered something groundbreaking, and then try to market it, is no surprise either.

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Aesthetics, fashion, and the hive mind
Posted by: mercianomad on Aug 8, 2008 7:33 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't hate beauty. Beauty brings definite value to my life in many things, including the beauty of art, bicycle designs, a friendly smile, music, or an old ornate doorway on even a ho-hum building from the turn of the 20th century (modern architecture is mostly a "straight lines, no filigree" affair).

What I hate is the hive-mind aesthetics of the modern world, based largely on fashion and business. It permeates so many things, even artistic tastes: In my generation, as an example, nearly everyone I know or know about likes some form of popular music from the last - say - 50 years (tops! It's usually bands and music from right now that are important to them), and never even bothers with anything before that, although it seems to be socially acceptable to appreciate old blues and jazz. The clothes people wear reflect their musical tastes, which I find outrageously funny. A composer like Chopin is ignored or unexplored; it's just not cool. I go to the philharmonic and look out upon a sea of white hair. But it's almost a social error among my friends not to know all the albums of this or that crappy band, some of which are celebrated because they are fashion icons, not because they are particularly talented musicians. The talented ones in our society are often completely screwed in favor of bands that are forgotten once they are out of fashion. I can't do that. Once I like something aesthetically, I might wear myself out on it, but I don't drop it when it goes out of fashion.

Clothing fashion has also really sort of run its course, I think. Haven't we exhausted just about every type of clothing style and hair style that people will be likely to wear? Men are still largely looking like the characters in "Fight Club" from 1998. Women likewise haven't really changed much, still wearing tight clothes and longish hair. Isn't it all boring and recycled to anyone else now? Isn't it a waste to try and keep up with it?

There are all sorts of other hive-mind aesthetics. It's all about the body now for both men and women. The face or personality is almost secondary. Porn has really sort of de-humanized sex and love for a lot of people who have been overexposed to it. The concept of romance has been made trite by overexposure to media guidelines. Modern men think of romance along the lines of figuring out a clever or surprising way to propose to a woman. "I'll hide the ring in the thoracic cavity of her cornish hen at dinner!"

I remember a time when pubic hair was acceptable on women. Now it's almost a patterned thing for men to abhor it or at most be just tolerant of it if it's trimmed properly. How could a single aesthetic like that be adopted en masse from out of nowhere - one that dictates that all women should be hair-free from the eyebrows down? Something is at work there that isn't natural - it's the result of an aesthetic handed down from on high, and I may be the only guy left in the world who is turned off by it.

Advertising has finally permeated every aspect of our lives, and it has made us monstrously shallow and alike in thought. It's on your internet, your radio, billboards, buses, mail catalogs, newspapers and print media, it calls you at home, and of course, it's all over the TV, including in the programs. Bruce Robinson had it right in "How to get Ahead in Advertising." It's not Big Brother that is watching us, it is we who watch him, willingly, every time we turn on that TV set.

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» RE: Bravo! Posted by: lightwing1
» RE: Bravo! Posted by: mercianomad
» RE: Bravo! continued Posted by: lightwing1
» thank you, lightwing1... Posted by: Moira61
I Luv Beauty
Posted by: RemyC on Aug 8, 2008 7:39 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Everybody settles, get over it! Beautiful people are here to make ugly people suffer, it's what makes us human. It's what creates cults of personality, creates Gods and Goddesses... nothing's changed since the Greeks and the Romans, we just changed the medium a bit, now we have TV, the big screen and being e-famous.

Beauty is fun, makes life worthwhile... it would be so boring without the eternal quest to rid ourselves of pimples and scars. Worry about all the nuclear power plants of the world ready to be flooded. Use beauty to kill the beast!

Leave all this whining behind at not being good enough to date the prettiest girl in town... That's why they used to throw the prettiest girl in the village down the volcano to appease the Gods, or rather even out the playing field. They did the same thing to witches in the middle ages.

We're doing the same thing today by throwing our most precious specimen to the media wolves and paparazzi... in sacrifice to our own insufficiencies, which this article panders to just the same as Vogue.

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Like... whatevER!
Posted by: zeofredo on Aug 8, 2008 7:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have a friend who is a visiting scholar at my local university in Canada. He is from Colombia. I have found Colombian women (or any Latinas) to be effortlessly attractive... including the somewhat 'thicker' ones, even! As a longtime single male I don't get too worked up about such issues, though, because there are so many more significant things to engage in.

But I'm forgetting to tell you about my friend... he confided to me that he really found 'Canadian' women to be more gorgeous and desirable than his own countrywomen! I laughed and said, well, okay... except that we are mostly ethnic hybrids here, so 'Canadian' doesn't really account for 'type'. In addition, women from other places always possess a compelling allure to curious imaginations.

Finally, I will say that natural features and healthy physiques are always the purest aesthetic ideal. Women from rural Slovakia or places far off the urban path in Asia or Africa can be surpassingly beautiful in ways we don't see in our degenerate culture. They may not make it into our magazines, but to see them for real is to be in the presence of simple perfection.

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It's even worse than that.
Posted by: ankhet on Aug 8, 2008 8:08 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One young student in a Grade 9 class I was teaching a number of years ago, brought a copy of the swimsuit edition of "Sports Illustrated" into my classroom to share with his pals. While the boys were enjoying the pretty pictures, commenting on them, it was obvious that a number of the girls were growing more uncomfortable at their comments. Of course, I told the young man to put the magazine away. When one girl echoed my request, the young man told her, speaking for the boys, "You shut up. Unless you look like this, don't bother talking to us."

The Beauty Myth does more harm than reducing interest in "ordinary" women; it actually creates hostility toward normal, non-processed, non-enhanced, non-airbrushed, non-surgically-"improved" women.

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Where's the other side?
Posted by: luckypuck on Aug 8, 2008 8:12 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well, now, where are the counter-balancing studies of how women rate men? Why is it a woman will show some interest in a guy when she’s alone, but when she’s with other women, she brushes off the same guy? Why does a woman flirt with a guy in whom she has no real interest? To show off her power over men? Why will a group of women circle up and start to whisper and titter when a guy approaches, then move off, acting as if he’s not even on the same planet? Why is a man, good-looking, well-groomed, attentive and sensitive left in the lurch for some pierced, tattooed, spiked-hair goon? Why is a pierced, tattooed, spiked-hair goon left in the lurch for a good-looking, well-groomed, attentive and sensitive man?

All taste is acquired, no matter what one’s “taste buds” are like. Just a superficial look at paintings and photos of the past will make it clear that a standard of beauty is not only in the eye of the beholder, but throughout the ages yields to the cultural milieu of the beholder. What is desirable to many is desirable to one; that’s true of both sexes. Unless one makes it into one, the so-called battle of the sexes is not really a battle, it’s a game. You play games because they are fun and entertaining. If you want to play, you have to understand the rules. You may not like the rules, you may not like whomever or whatever it was that made up the rules, but there it is. You don’t like it, don’t play. Oh, I can hear it now, “but I HAVE to play.” No, you don’t, you only think you do.

The problem is women play the game one way and men play the game another way. Different strategies to gain advantage in the same game. The article above is skewed to one view, perhaps even a sexist view. For the article to be valid I must ask again, where are the studies similar to those stated in the article regarding women’s strategies, women’s standards of male beauty and behavior?

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Move to Arabia...
Posted by: RemyC on Aug 8, 2008 8:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Where all the women are forced to cover themselves, for fear they might stir the desires of men... Then when they get off the plane in Paris, they rush to buy designer t-shirts and jeans, party all night long in all the seedy Champs Elysees clubs, spilling onto the streets dead drunk... boinking every two-bit playboy in sight. Few days later, their veil back on, they climb into their jet planes, go back to their miserable repressed lives. Welcome to planet Earth and the curse of religious fundamentalism!

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» RE: Move to Arabia... Posted by: beautifulady2003
The Inside That Counts
Posted by: Godfather89 on Aug 8, 2008 8:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If their is one thing I have seen its that those who focus their life on looking beautiful are the ones who are very superficial and ignorant. Essentially, they have the Valley Girl Mentality.

Theirs a video on YouTube with Miss South Carolina Pagent and I feel that the behavior shown by her is the behavior of those who do not bother to educate themselves on anything but fashion and fields of the like.

Its always been on the inside that matters most, if I had the choice to choose between exaggerated beauty or relative beauty I would rather choose the later because, most of us have outer flaws. But the ones with the inner flaws, present in exaggerated beauty, are the ones truly lacking.

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Outstanding Article!!!
Posted by: Gravitas on Aug 8, 2008 8:32 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is simply an outstanding article. Having taught social psychology I was already aware of the contrast principle, but this article connected some dots for me.
The point that men are constantly dissatisfied is so DEAD ON. Both my ex and I were raised in the L.A. area. He constantly read Playboy and was constantly dissatisfied. While he never "cheated," it was obviously he was restless and discontent, always feeling he had to settle. I have also casually dated a number of men on a "progressive" dating site. They often just abruptly end the relationship. I thought it was that deep down I really don't want to be seriously involved and was somehow unconsciously transmitting that. But I notice these men are still looking years later. That they are stuck in the "I can always do better" mode makes perfect sense.

The next question now is what can we do about it. I am soooo tired of the attitude that women should try harder (because we don't have enough to do already!) There is no excuse not to devote your entire life to achieving this beauty ideal. Well, there is NO EXCUSE for not trying to counteract social manipulation. If we are nagged relentlesly to stop eating junk food or exercise, maybe we should be nagged into working on our characters. If people know that too much "eye candy" is harming authentic relationships there no excuse not to put down the magazines or turn off your t.v!!!!

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» RE: Outstanding Article!!! Posted by: ankhet
» RE: Outstanding Article!!! Posted by: TerryS
Men vs. Women
Posted by: laurena on Aug 8, 2008 8:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Satisfaction is not about landing the best you can get (or think/wish you could get). It's about finding what makes you the most comfortable. Aiming for the former instead of the latter is what makes people unsatisfied in their relationships. It's not Hollywood's fault. It's your perspective that's messed up.

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» RE: Men vs. Women Posted by: libgal
Not fair.
Posted by: luckypuck on Aug 8, 2008 9:10 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well, now, where are the counter-balancing studies of how women rate men? Why is it a woman will show some interest in a guy when she’s alone, but when she’s with other women, she brushes off the same guy? Why does a woman flirt with a guy in whom she has no real interest? To show off her power over men? Why will a group of women circle up and start to whisper and titter when a guy approaches, then move off, acting as if he’s not even on the same planet? Why is a man, good-looking, well-groomed, attentive and sensitive, left in the lurch for some pierced, tattooed, spiked-hair goon? Why is a pierced, tattooed, spiked-hair goon left in the lurch for a good-looking, well-groomed, attentive and sensitive man? It happens.

All taste is acquired, no matter what one’s “taste buds” are like. Just a superficial look at paintings and photos of the past will make it clear that a standard of beauty is not only in the eye of the beholder, but throughout the ages standards yield to the cultural milieu of the beholder. What is desirable to many becomes desirable to one; that’s true of both sexes.

Except for those who make it into one, the so-called battle of the sexes is not really a battle, it’s a game. Unless you are into S&M, you play games because they're fun and entertaining. If you want the fun and entertainment, you have to understand and play by the rules. You may not like the rules, you may not like whomever or whatever it was that made up the rules, but there it is. You don’t like it, don’t play. Oh, I can hear it now, “but I HAVE to play.” No, you don’t, you only think you do.

The truth is women play the game one way and men play the game another way. Different strategies at play to gain advantage in the same game and isn't that soooo romantic.

The article above is skewed to one view, perhaps even a sexist view. For the article to be valid I must ask again, where are the studies similar to those stated in the article examining women’s strategies, women’s standards of male beauty and behavior?

Hate beauty? How perverse.

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LMAO!!!
Posted by: craigandrew on Aug 8, 2008 9:23 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let me get this straight... beautiful women are responsible for you feeling insecure so we need to stop women from being beautiful? This is like communism of appearance. Here is a clue, beauty is what WE define it to be as a part of OUR individual character (same as success and power)... so if WE lack the integrity to define beauty on OUR OWN terms, that is OUR problem. That fact that the people around us lack that integrity, or have made the choice to define beauty in traditional terms, has nothing to do with US... All of these scientific studies are only measuring the level of integrity in people. The simple answer is to stop whining, grow a backbone, and simply don't choose them.

Have a nice day. C:)

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» RE: LMAO!!! Posted by: Mel H.
15 Years Ago I Looked 10 Years Older Than I Do Now
Posted by: opmoc on Aug 8, 2008 9:53 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was working my balls off in a highly stressful job. My hair turned white almost overnight. I was fighting to survive to bring my kids up and pay my mortgage.

Now I am retired, I have no stress. I have paid the mortgage off through sheer fucking hard work and live on a small pension.

I can grow my hair really long and look silly.

Yes of course I die it blonde.

And I flirt like hell with all the young girls - but only flirt cos I have an absolutely beautiful wife who also flirts like hell with blokes 20 years younger.

Beauty is all in the mind.

When I was in my 20's I was incredibly shy and had a really poor self image of myself.

But my daughter recently found some really old photographs of me

And what she said really floored me

She said - Dad - when you were younger you were really stunningly attractive - you could easily have been a male model

I thought I was ugly

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"unobtainable" women?
Posted by: aalif ba ta tha on Aug 8, 2008 10:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
speak for yourself

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Beautiful in NY
Posted by: Jean Siracusa on Aug 8, 2008 10:33 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article does not address handsome men. It does not define beauty. Television and magazines are an example of a shallow ignorant culture obsessed with superficial BS. I am disappointed that Alternet gave space to such a trite and unintelligent perspective when there are so many positive, intelligent and beautiful people who are humanitarians, teachers, mothers and fathers, community leaders, and young people. These are the people that should be acknowledged for their positive influence..but unfortunately they do not live in LA., and are not classified as beautiful (anyone can be physically beautiful if they have the right tools). Alternet, please report important and relevant material or give up. There is enough garbage on TV and in the mainstrean media of the type in this article and we do not need it here. Thank you.

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» RE: Beautiful in NY Posted by: TerryS
» RE: Beautiful in NY Posted by: Jean Siracusa
Bravo, Alternet
Posted by: 6399 on Aug 8, 2008 10:41 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Another tepid, pointless excursion down irrelevancy lane.

A summation of the points introduced in the comments: Some people appreciate highly produced women like the featured Giselle Bundchen, others prefer the girl next door. Yawn.

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» RE: Bravo, Alternet Posted by: VH
"Don't hate me because I'm beautiful."
Posted by: ssdd on Aug 8, 2008 10:41 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"But my exposure to extreme beauty is ruining my capacity to love the ordinarily beautiful women of the real world, women who are more likely to meet my needs for deep connection and partnership of the soul."

So beautiful women are incapable of deep connections with their partners? Beauty automatically equals shallowness?

Your self-absorbed, whiny, immature, bitter attitude is ruining your capacity to love. Grow up.

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BIG SNOOOORE
Posted by: TheNamelessCity on Aug 8, 2008 10:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Books on marketing...the authors of books on marketing, and the consultants, and tech fools, business, business, business, blah blah blah...in a just, sane world you fools would be working in factories, where you belong.

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Boredom
Posted by: VH on Aug 8, 2008 11:07 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With all due respect, I find that many superficially attractive persons are boring. There is simply very little beyond the exterior. Thus, in a way, the "beauty" you speak of helps me eliminate potential partners, for better or for worse.

Simply said, the work of a plastic surgeon or a Mystic Tan session cannot be transmitted genetically. Therefore, the more plastic the person, the further away I run. It's brains or bust. But that's just me. To each our own.

Interesting perspective you share, however. Although not wholly unexpected. You may find some fulfillment if you begin focusing on non physical qualities. But that would mean you'd have to hone those in yourself first. Which for some requires more effort than it's worth. After all, walking around being pretty is rather primal (= easy).

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somebody
Posted by: maxsmart on Aug 8, 2008 11:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is a lot more than that going on. How about sexual repression. How about social control of sexuality. What about all kinds of alternatives. It is a market economy, but not much shopping. It is controlled by vast networks of crime and punishment, fear, and loathing. We are trapped in a moral morass we can't navigate, we can't be honest and certainly can't relax and be human. Religion has attempted to control all impulses and urges and lock them up in a box which is a sterile married couples bedroom. We are surrounded by sex and the more we are the less of it there is. And it has been hijacked by anger, hatred, and violence and is getting worse by the day. War and rape are interrelated and this masculine distortion of societies raping each other is getting more and more prevalent or at least on a more massive scale. It is not just a coupling problem it is the biggest problem in our world. How to have societies that are open, caring, loving, non-judgemental, less manipultive, less punitive and more compassionate. This distortion could destroy the human race and the rest of the planet. Look at Darfur, look at Yugoslavia, look at the surrounding environment of our military bases, look at the rape of Nanking. This control and selling of sex is a pressure cooker getting ready to explode.

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related to greed
Posted by: fomented on Aug 8, 2008 11:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I expected this to be written by a woman who was tired of the infernal struggle.

It all ties in with corporate push to spend, spend, spend on "better".

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Seems? Actually is?
Posted by: pdxjoe on Aug 8, 2008 11:35 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"If a man is talking to a beautiful female at a cocktail party and is then joined by a less attractive one, the second woman will seem relatively unattractive."

No, less attractive compared to more attractive is relatively unattractive. More bizarre is the sentence that comes before that one:

"For example, a woman of average attractiveness seems a lot less attractive than she actually is if a viewer has first seen a highly attractive woman."

If beauty is contextual in the way argued in this article, then "actually is" makes no sense.

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...beauty?
Posted by: carolcsme on Aug 8, 2008 11:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So - perhaps we have some official statistics on tv's ruination of our family life and sex life. Ye Viagra commercial creates the situation it purports to solve... And do you want your preschooler watching dismembered bodies on TV?

Our world's become bizarre. Solution? Don't numb out and live on surface views. Beauty is not only skin deep, it comes from within as well. A really dorky movie covered it a few years back: a guy got reprogrammed to see women's outsides as though they matched their insides. Same issue.

No one's ever adequately tested gender differences, but any clear look will note that women are encouraged to see others' insides (women "communicate") and men are encouraged to build physical structures (compute/engineer/correlate). Nowhere, lately, are we encouraged to become whole human beings, to see and act in our full capacity. We are socially engineered...

Right there you have a focus on words for girls and math for boys. While there are definitely strong individual preferences, those don't always follow the traditional boy/girl model. What actual gender differences might be, beyond anatomy, reproduction, and history might be ... we don't really know at this point. And perhaps never will, at the rate we are going.

Also, please note, analogy is distrusted and marginalized, as it is so effective at communicating global understanding - which our educational system tries to avoid.

The analogy here is that of predator and prey: that is the model so rampant in our culture and so politely referred to as "win/lose." We are a bullying culture, and it has become deadly serious during the Bush years.

...is anyone listening?

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Second Thoughts
Posted by: carolcsme on Aug 8, 2008 12:03 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
On looking back on other comments, someone noted this wasn't about beauty, it only addressed what a man saw of women... I thought that was obvious. We also all know that women do NOT choose men based on appearance - it's a very welcome asset, but not the reason for choosing a partner. Beautiful women choose self-assured men. Self-assured men feel free to treat beautiful/successful/independent women well. The answer there is that power trusts power, and trust is the basis of relationship. One-on-one is where power belongs. What is it, money, sex and ___(?) are the three major issues in marital disputes. And the gesure of lifting the nostrils in disgust is the greatest predictor of failure in marital counseling - revulsion is the opposite of trust.

True beauty is in the integrity of wholeness, the abilty to be honest within - and without, when appropriate, and to hold appropriate boundaries when not. Much of beauty is in the abilty to note, interpret, and respond to subtle cues. Most "great beauties" have this difficult-to-name quality, the quicksilver sense of perceiving and experiencing more of reality...

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Hypocritical expectations don't support "partnership"
Posted by: mcubed on Aug 8, 2008 12:26 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Finally an article on why men are single!

! ! ! THANK YOU ! ! !

As for the flip side, that some posters don't feel has been covered enough:
Why are so many women single?

Here's one of the options for an unhappy life/marriage I turned down:

Overweight ex-fiance
who constantly yelled at me because I was "fat"
(I was underweight at the time).
He also got angry if I cooked healthy food.

This article gave me the best explanation I've seen thus far on why this ex (and others) would react to me in this manner. I did not stay with him (and others) because his expectations fueled an anger that manifested in verbal abuse and physical threats, based on my appearance or the possibility that my appearance might change.

On a lighter note, during a breakup, another boyfriend told me that one of the main reasons he was breaking up with me was because my middle toe wasn't long enough. He was completely serious. I thought it was bizarre, and told him so.

Michele

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simple truth
Posted by: carpe.gavin on Aug 8, 2008 1:11 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
25% of Americans are now obese. That's gross, and that's the truth. Women--stop drinking soda, stop eating garbage food, take a walk, have a little respect for your body. Every single day in college ALL I see are fat girls, PRETTY girls, getting fatter and fatter. It's sad. And ya know what? In ALL of their hands are Cokes and chips--high sugar, high fat crap. Stop, stop, stop. FRUIT is amazing! So is water with lemon! Guys are attracted to HEALTH, not necessarily beauty.
--gav

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» RE: simple truth Posted by: cmaciain
» RE: simple truth Posted by: craighorowitz
Some Blokes I Know Think Women With Enormous Bottoms Are The Most Beautiful Women In The World
Posted by: opmoc on Aug 8, 2008 1:24 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How can I argue?

Tony

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Beauty and the cursed
Posted by: maven on Aug 8, 2008 1:35 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My teenage years (mid sixties)solidified my thorough lack of self-confidence--20-30 pounds overweight, 4-eyed, acne (before Proactiv) fuzzy curly hair, and in the top 5 of my class.

That translates to no boyfriends and no dates. No prom, no going steady NADA.

I came to believe that only beautiful people deserved sex and love. The old Groucho line--Why would I want to belong to a club that would have me as a member?--became relevant to the club of people who get to date and have relationships.

I am now 59 years old, never married, never asked, and never even part of any romantic relationship.

Oh, since I was in college from '67-'72 I got laid like everyone--but all experiences led to nothing, and riddled with insecurity is no way to even become a good lay.

I've spent the last 20 years gaining weight and celibate(trust me, no one cared or was ever turned down)

Oh, of course intellectually (remember the top 5 part) I know that all types of people can attract the opposite sex, have good sex, find real love. But that doesn't change that little voice in my head that says you have to be beautiful to be loved and I am living proof that not beautiful means no love. I'm clear that this is therapy material, but I've never been able to afford the luxury of outside help, and feminism and self-help just never got through.

I just helped celebrate my parents 60th wedding anniversary--they are dearly in love after all this time. All I ever really wanted out of this life is a loving partner and children, but never had any guidance on how to get out of the mental trap I was in and find what I wanted.

Of course Hollywood and romantic movies with beautiful people were a passion and they reinforced every stereotype. So here I am amidst a lot of married and divorced friends in my strange unmarried state. Some think I'm lucky I've never had an ugly marriage or relationship, or ungrateful difficult children, but no one can convince me that my shriveled unused romantic heart is better off.

Beauty and misunderstanding have left me in this state, and I am all for a more enlightened view of people--but it seems that this plastic surgery, anorexic, hairless obsessed, trending in American society is making everything worse instead of better. I'm sure it's over for me, but I weep for those that follow and never flower with their potential because of all the fucked up messages about beautiful people that bombard their lives. I can only pray now for some miraculous societal healing.

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» RE: Beauty and the cursed Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: Beauty and the cursed Posted by: ecl1958
I Have Just Had a Beautiful Cat Called Prince Spend 5 Minutes Controlling Me
Posted by: opmoc on Aug 8, 2008 2:05 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Prince is not our cat.

We have two cats called Millie and Lucy

Prince however was born on our Daughter's bed

And we gave him to a neighbour a few doors away

But Prince keeps coming back to the home he was born with to meet his almost identical sister Millie

And well of course - we always let him in - even though he is not ours

And we have a cat flap - and I was outside cos I was having a smoke - and am not allowed to smoke in the house.

So I opened the cat flap for Prince - but he refused to go through the cat flap (he normally has no problem doing it himself when there are no humans around)

No Prince insisted I open the back door for him

So him being a Prince and me just being a mere human being - I opened the door for the Prince

Prince then walked up to the two cat bowls - one of which had some dried food

But he didn't want the dried food

So he goes right through the house and finds an exit upstairs through my daughter's bedromm window where he was born - jumps down on the lower roof

And starts the same game again

Which is repeated exactly

And then he does it for a third time

And of course this time I actually followed him inside the house to the kitchen and gave him what he wanted which was some FRESH WHISKAS SUPERMEAT

My wife caught me feeding him - and I of course had to tell her the full story

And then my wife demanded my FULL ATTENTION

And Got It

Tony

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Gender and Desire
Posted by: Paolo on Aug 8, 2008 2:16 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For excellent insight into this issue read Gender & Desire: Uncursing Pandora by Polly Young-Eisendrath. This book explores theses issues with depth and insight in order to better understand. It is not for the glib of heart.

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Keeping Him Single
Posted by: CS1974 on Aug 8, 2008 2:39 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"...it is beauty alone that is keeping me single and lonely."

Perhaps the reason why the author is still single is that women can spot his superficial nature coming a mile away.

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WORST.... ARTICLE...YET... ON... ALTERNET
Posted by: lexicon on Aug 8, 2008 3:10 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Can I have those 10 minutes back? You just took 10 minutes from my life that I'll never have back.

Did you plug your book...I didn't catch it...I want to be sure to AVOID it.

What a load of drivel. Unworthy even of comment. Then again, I may have a higher opinion of the general level of humanity than is warranted.

This country DID re-elect GWB after all...it could be that there's a lot of people out there who are as dumb as a post, like this author seems to be.

Undeniable drivel. Scatological specimen. Shark Sandwich.

I think I disagree with literally EVERY premise, assumption, and conclusion in this article.

Trying to figure it out. Is it a veiled anti-porn screed? Is it a "don't you wish YOU were a public relations person in LA" screed? What is it, except a 10-minute THIEF?

lexicon

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"If you want to be happy for the rest of your life,
Posted by: mcartri on Aug 8, 2008 3:20 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
make an average woman your wife(Had to change "ugly"." A "Beautiful Wife" is nothing but trouble. She will constantly be hit on everywhere she goes. It's one thing to bring a beautiful date to a party, but when she's your wife, it's BIG trouble. If you're "average" looking, be thankful. Your pool of fellow "average lookers" is by far the greatest in number. This is all written by a very happy, average looking married man, married to a very beautiful, happily married wife. Of course my wife says I'm handsome, but hey, what does she know? Please ignore any contradictions in this posting you find.

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'Psychology Today' is a mainstream publication. Why feature from it here?
Posted by: realmuzik on Aug 8, 2008 3:21 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is indeed an excellent article that belongs in the Reproductive Justice and Gender section, and many of the comments posted here sum up my thoughts about it nicely. But here is the problem: The article was taken from the "mainstream," corporate-owned (by a small corporation called Sussex Publishing) Psychology Today! It is easily accessible from any "big box" grocery store, chain bookseller, Target, public library, school library, and many doctors' and psychologists/psychiatrists' waiting rooms. It is even sold by the multinational Publishers' Clearing House. It, like most publications of such calibre, has a website. If I want to read it, and often I admit that I do, I will. But in all seriousness, I think Alternet can do much better than feature material from a "mainstream" publication. If Utne Reader, which is now also corporate-owned, can maintain its independence to where they are still an invaluable resource of featuring
the "best of what you have never heard about," then Alternet, being the "alternative" to the mainstream, should follow suit. Please ... given the precarious state of independent media ... continue featuring material from independent resources demanding attention. Psychology Today does not demand attention. It gets it, anyway.

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Oh god...
Posted by: blogbooks on Aug 8, 2008 3:22 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now you've given all those crazy American women out there even more reason to forbid their boyfriends/husbands look at pornography or other women:

"In studies, Gutierres and Kenrick have found that it also affects men's feelings about their current partner. Viewing pictures of attractive women weakens their commitment to their mates. Men rate themselves as being less in love with their partner after looking at Playboy centerfolds than they did before seeing the pictures of beautiful women."

Dude...you've betrayed your gender.

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Real Beauty
Posted by: Urgelt on Aug 8, 2008 3:30 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I do not hate beauty.

But I might have a different idea of what beauty is than many of my fellow Americans.

I think makeup and lipstick are foul.

Perfume just kills me. I probably have chemical sensitivities.

I think high heels and nylons are hideous.

I think vanity surgery is a sick abomination.

Shaved legs and armpits turn me off. Razor stubble is horrible; give me sensuous, silky body hair any day.

I think clever camera angles, photo retouching and lighting tricks are just more of the same. They're all ways to lie.

A woman who is visually deceitful is sending a message I get loud and clear. "You cannot trust me. I lie, in every possible way, to gain advantage."

The "beautiful people" are not beautiful in my eyes. They have voluntarily sacrificed their humanity to become objects in exchange for cash. They are the cultural artifacts of madness.

A woman, clean, in glowing good health, unaltered by artifice, is what I find beautiful. You can't fake that kind of beauty. If she is also kind and gentle, she's worth more than all of Paris Hilton's vacuous millions.

And if she's smart, too, I'm in love.

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» RE: eal Beauty Posted by: wearesilhouettes
» RE: eal Beauty Posted by: sasha40
Normal, healthy men know beauty when they see it
Posted by: blogbooks on Aug 8, 2008 3:32 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It isn't necessarily what Hollywood or the fashion dregs say it is. But we know it when we see it.

The least attractive thing in the world is a deformation of the human body. Fat people are deformed with their lumpy, sagging sacks of flesh tossed ere and there asymmetrically.

When I see a beautiful woman I don't deconstruct her hair, lips, face, tan, or body. I simply look and appreciate the beauty that I behold.

All the little tricks that women use to make themselves more attractive only fool drunken or stupid men.

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Lo Cor De La Plana - Tant Deman - Probably The Best Band And Album In The World
Posted by: opmoc on Aug 8, 2008 3:56 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The very Definition of Beauty

These Musicians Sing in an unusual dialect of French and come from Marseilles in Southern France but all their roots are from North Africa

When You Go and see them perform live

It doesn't matter how disabled you think you are

You just get up and Dance

Of course it is not compulsory

They don't say get up and dance

You just can't help get up and Dance

Dance

Dance

it is Good For You

it makes you feel happy and you can touch other human beings and have fun and feel like a child

with a big smile on your face

you have no idea what they are singing about but they are singing their hearts out about

FREEDOM

Tony

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Thanks for reminding me
Posted by: pomes on Aug 8, 2008 4:23 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When I watch television, I feel like I'm peering into an alien world that doesn't exist (and thank god).

Sometimes I need reminders like this that some people actually do believe there's some kind of reality to it. And what's even more mysterious is that they ENJOY this reality and PREFER it to our own.

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Uh..huh...
Posted by: wearesilhouettes on Aug 8, 2008 5:30 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anything else concerning media/television that we don't already know? TV and media are designed to disarm us, make us hate ourselves and be dissatisfied w/ the real world. Luckily there are men out there that know what the "real world" is and those men find us women! Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.... Kill your TV!!!! Geez add up the EMF frequencies and it's a horrible device.

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Unobtainable
Posted by: Jeanne on Aug 8, 2008 5:41 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That is the operative word. That beauty is not real. It is airbrushed on. The "look" takes hours to achieve by professionals. The men who are aspiring to collect a female who looks like that will be spending a lot of time waiting for the preparations to be complete; and they'll be spending a heap of money on the cosmetics, clothing, jewelry, accessories -- not to mention the hours of spa, gym, and hair salon time it takes to achieve such perfection. Remember, dude, it's what she looks like in the morning, sans makeup. Oh, and have any of these men looked in the mirror? Unless they have themselves attained a comparable status of male beauty, they should set their sights on something more realistic. And the biggest "besides" is that real beauty radiates from the very being of a person. That beauty does not decay with age. No makeup, tummy tuck, liposuction, or botox required.

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» RE: Unobtainable Posted by: opmoc
» RE: Unobtainable Posted by: opmoc
You're kidding, right?
Posted by: annavan1 on Aug 8, 2008 6:29 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"It has nothing to do with sexist, cultural norms"? What planet do you live on? Your lack of insight is stunning.

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Commondreamer
Posted by: CommonDreamer on Aug 8, 2008 8:11 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
More emptyness, more amorality and lack of spirituality, ageism too - brought to you by Maxim and Playboy style "thinking" (if you can call it that). Boring. Not real. Just a reflection of this society's sickness, which is so far reaching in its shallowness, its greed, its stupidity and selfishness, that I don't know if we can ever rout it out. But getting rid of Maxim and its empty ilk would be a start. After all, this was the magazine that decreed that Tina Fey wasn't "hot"...oh and some other intelligent women too..weren't "hot".

Obviously, intelligence, nuance, sensuality, love - those things don't matter. Fake hair, fake bodies, fake lives - now that matters.

Did you read about Heather Locklear? The poor woman is being treated for depression apparently. I guess she realized, just like we all do, that we're just human beings and even being genetically blessed isn't going to stop the aging process. As to Hollywood I believe the only values left there are nearly entirely embodied by the lives of Paul Newman and Joanne Woodward. They know how to live dignified and rich lives.

Listen, those pretty little things are going to turn 45 some day and not be so perfect - then what? And what about the men getting older?

Sad. Sad. Get rid of Maxim thinking and get a real, rich, loving and thoughtful life that's deep......now that would be something new for America...something deep, sexy and thoughtful. The French have it right. They embrace older, nuanced, and sexy women. We could learn so much if only....we didn't have Maxim as the standard bearer (of what, I don't know).

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Beauty VS Glamour
Posted by: kingrat on Aug 8, 2008 9:28 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think what a lot of people overlook is the fact that glamour does not equal beauty. Pamela Anderson is glamorous. Meryl Streep is beautiful.

European women are much more attractive to me than the women that I see walking down the street here in Ohio. That has nothing to do with what the media or Hollywood has presented to me. I've traveled a bit in Europe and I prefer the women there. The women I saw in Taiwan last year were amazing, both native and Japanese women on holiday. Why do I find this to be true? They take care of themselves. They dress nicely and take time to present a good image to the world. Neither there nor in Europe have I seen a 300+ pound woman with thick cracked yellow toenails in flip flops and a muu-muu munching a bag of potato chips drinking a 2 litre of Mountain Dew on her way to Wal Mart. I don't buy into the "I'm fat and beautiful" line. Fat is more than just looks. For me, fat implies a lack of self control and goes way beyond a waistline. It's a whole lifestyle and self respect issue. You can't let your body go to hell and expect others to find you attractive.
There's a balance there between what Hollywood shows us and what I see around me every day. Comparatively attractive? Yes.

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» Need glasses? Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: Beauty VS Glamour Posted by: mercianomad
» RE: Beauty VS Glamour Posted by: craighorowitz
Beauty is about life
Posted by: Alsu on Aug 9, 2008 2:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What annoys me most, is the very narrowed concept of beauty used by the hollywood standards. Looking at all those beautiful women on the screen you can but notice that they all look like sisters, even if their skin tone and their hair colors vary. Same build, same nose, same lips, same cheeks, same form of the face. All look like seventeen (even if they play mothers of ten year olds or lawyers), and all look like they have the same mother. If you take a look at this years contestants for miss world beauty paegant, same effect. It is really hard to distinguish them if they wear the same bathing suit. They are beautiful, true, but this is just one kind of beauty. The most interesting and beautiful portraits of art history, as photos or as paintings, show people that are far away from the supposed "perfection" profused by playboy or cosmo, which is nothing more than irreal plastic perfection. A tall woman with voluptous curves - what the french call a femme formidable - is beautiful, just as a petite girl with a cute boyish face, just as a mature woman with ladylike appeal, just as an old woman with a kind and wise face. True, an 80 year old is not sexy anymore. But he or she can be beautiful just the same. And if you take a closer look, and throw away the much to narrow and uncreative standards you are beeing brainwashed with, you can see it. Beauty is about life, about touch, smell, hearing and vision, and yes, about decay and aging too, which can be beautiful in its own way. It has very little to do with photoshop-manipulated covers of magazines. About as much as fine cooking has with fast food.

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Obesity is not pretty
Posted by: craighorowitz on Aug 9, 2008 4:51 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The vast majority of people would be attractive if not exceptionally so (although many would) if they simply lost weight and got into shape. I lived in Korea for two years, Most Korean women are, by American standards, gorgeous. The simple reason is most are at their ideal weights (although the infiltration of our repulsive fast food industry is rapidly making them fat). Beleieve me a fat Korean woman, or man, is just as unappetitive as a fat American. Honestly folks, it's the fat that is the major turnoff.

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» RE: Obesity is not pretty Posted by: papibear
Toby
Posted by: Toby on Aug 9, 2008 5:45 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
May of the elements of beauty are also the elements of health - good bodily proportion, clear skin, bright eyes, good teeth and so on. These characteristics deserve to be attractive. As a previous poster pointed out, fat is the biggest problem. All the crap about fat people learning to love their size and big being beautiful is nonsense. Fat is ugly and uhealthy - period. If you have let yourself go that way, stop whining about it and hating those who work hard to stay looking good. If you choose to be a lazy, self-destructive slob, don't expect to winning the dating game. To a large extent, beauty is not some magic gift of the gods - it is the result of hard work and deserves respect like any other art form. I am blessed with four adopted, college age gay sons who are all very good looking - some even in the "OMG!" range. They work on maintaining and improving their bodies constantly. As a result they are besiged by would-be mates who then discover that they are each also brilliant, compassionate and very gifted young men - qualities that serve to greatly enhance their physical beauty and all of which is the result of HARD WORK. I respect their achievments beyond words.

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Remember
Posted by: Defender57 on Aug 9, 2008 5:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Beauty's only skin deep but ugly's to the bone. UGLY's what is left behind when all the beauty's gone. We all know alot of the glamorous people today and yesterday have more ugly sordid details in their lives to go along with their celebrity. Makes me glad I ain't a purdy boy. I like spending time in the woods, on a lake or with my partner, not being one of the seen people that goes with my lifestyle . I agree beauty is subjective. In the eyes of the beholder. Vivian Leighs, Cary Grants, Clark Gables,Kate and Audrey Hepburns are a dying breed. The most beautiful people in my life , there beauty runs deep inside not necessarily visible to others on the outside. My grandma said still waters always ran deep. She was right. But also remember the Green Eyed Monster, which has poked its head up in some of these comments, ain't too purdy either.

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Unobtainable??
Posted by: gellero1 on Aug 9, 2008 7:14 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is the author serious??

Any available drop dead beauty can be had by the average looking guy ( and even below average ) if he approaches her with confidence, the right amount of aggression, and a personality/charm that can get her to laugh in the first 5 minutes.

The drawers will drop by the second date, guaranteed !!

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Ratings
Posted by: Mel H. on Aug 9, 2008 7:56 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why does everyone and everything have to be rated?

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BEAUTY 101
Posted by: TFYQA on Aug 9, 2008 11:30 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have a message to deliver to the cute people of the world...if you're cute, or maybe beautiful...remember this, there's MORE OF US UGLY MOTHERFUCKERS OUT THERE THAN YOU ARE!! So watch out. - Frank Zappa

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» Indeed there are........... Posted by: gellero1
LOL! He hates beauty! LMAO!
Posted by: papibear on Aug 9, 2008 3:17 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He must also hate truth, intelligence, love, honesty, and other positive things in life.

Perhaps he should move to where the ugly people live, and he can bask in their ugliness. Maybe then, he'll be happy (only no, he can't be happy, because happy is a positive emotion, and he no doubt hates happiness, preferring the satisfaction of unhappiness and ugliness to happiness and beauty).

Pffft. Somebody tell Mr. Levine that it's time he entered rehab. What a friggin' maroon.

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This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
Lost Interest
Posted by: hilly7 on Aug 9, 2008 7:44 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I couldn't finish this article. As I draw nearer to 50 I still notice a beautiful woman but compared to my wife who like me, is getting a little fluffier as we get older, no thanks. One day perhaps when you get a little more mature this will all change. If I can do it, anybody can, I was a bit of a womanizer when I was younger. I wasn't too faithful.

I dated some more physically attractive people but none compared to her as I dated her more, funny, her beauty increased as we grew to know each other. If I had made a list of what I thought I wanted, she would have filled few things. It has been 20 years now and neither of us are quite what we were, but she is still the most beautiful woman I know and I have passed up chances without a second thought over the years, I'm surt she has too. Turns out, all the things I thought I wanted may have been hidden from me, as well as all the things I needed. Not that I don't look, but I don't want.

Of course, I also don't watch that much media and definately not Playboy. There are way more things in life that comprise beauty than physical, self respect comes to mind. I respect myself and my wife far too much to view, let alone pose nude.

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"Don't Hate Me Because I'm Beautiful"
Posted by: What4 on Aug 10, 2008 6:46 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A hair conditioner's ad slogan, "Don't Hate Me Because I'm Beautiful," led me to ponder a similar theme -- how women, and men as well, can come to a destructive envy that feels like hate toward beautiful women.

The resulting piece is here:

http://www.longleaf.net/ggrow/Hate/HateIndex.html

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I do not hate beauty
Posted by: drewpopo99 on Aug 11, 2008 1:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A hot debate is taking place at Richromances.com now among hollywood celebrities. Many guys said they were super-excited about it~

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camellia22
Posted by: camellia22 on Aug 11, 2008 9:20 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a mature woman and life-long student of social mores, I found this article fascinating. The author’s delusion that he is a helpless victim of his circumstances is at least as comical as it is pathetic. But I do believe it is a wide-spread issue affecting many of the media-obsessed young people of this period in history.

I think it is basically a male self-esteem issue that is cruelly exploited by mainstream media and advertising. Because Mr. Levine is himself one of the more successful exploiters, he has to believe there is something inevitable about the situation. Yes, there are many young men, and a few, like Mr. Levine, not-so-young, who sit at home night after night, lonely and miserable, masturbating into their magazines or in front of their computer screens, who are simply so deluded by the cultural hype that they are unable to fully participate in their own lives, perennially hoping for some perfect, plastic life that is held up as the standard. There are also many other men, of all ages, who do have the ability to see beyond the hype and to find happiness in the real world, rather than holding out for the perfect fantasy woman who will somehow provide them with the perfect fantasy life.

I did find it gratifying that many of the commenters exhibit much more maturity than Mr. Levine, and seem to have the ability to accept life on its own terms, including accepting real women on their own terms. However, as a lifelong student of our culture, I have observed something of the phenomenon described. I do believe it has become more of an issue, especially for young people, over the last 20-30 years. We do hear about high schools where most of the boys seem to all want to date only the 2 or 3 most popular girls. Also, I have male acquaintances and family members in their teens to forties, who I think are suffering from similar problems.

The ones who are themselves perhaps not so attractive may be the saddest victims. They feel validated by having a perfect-looking woman at their side. There seems to be some fear that if they are associated with a less-than-perfect woman, they might lose the respect of their friends and associates. The problem is a lack of self-confidence among the men, more than anything else. It’s not that their standards are too high. It’s rather that their standards are too low and too superficial. Their standards have too much to do with looking good to others, while willingly sacrificing their own happiness and sexual pleasure, in pursuit of fantasies of hyped, artificial images that will always remain just out of reach. This obsession prevents them from fully participating in their own lives. I hope that in time they grow out of it and develop the confidence and self-respect to form relationships that are truly satisfying and nurturing. This might be very bad for many advertisers and marketers, but very good for many humans.

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» RE: camellia22 Posted by: Snurpa
Lame article...
Posted by: tagonist on Aug 11, 2008 12:42 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Please, "hating" beauty is such a waste of time. You could at least try to come off as less bitter and desperate. There are so many more important things going on in the world that this tripe

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Excellent article
Posted by: gkrehbiel on Aug 12, 2008 5:21 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sensible people have known for a long time that pornography and, generally, over-exposure to sexy women, is bad for marriage. You have to spend a lot of time in a university to get stupid enough to doubt that obvious fact.

It's also somewhat funny that the author mentioned an "evolutionary psychology" explanation. Isn't it interesting that backwoods Baptists who don't believe in evolution have understood and recognized this phenomenon for a long time while the intelligent elitists laughed and mocked?

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Yep, its only men barraged by the media, right?
Posted by: rickiey on Aug 12, 2008 8:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Men are barraged by images of unobtainable women in the media, making it difficult for them to desire the ordinarily beautiful.

Yep. Fortunately there are no images of unobtainable men in the media, that make it difficult for women to desire the ordinary man.

Its a good thing the media doesn't show a bunch of men who are all naturally good looking, wealthy and of course, in peak physical condition well into their late 40s, even though they don't have time to work out and aren't vain about their bodies because they are so busy spoiling their current love interest that they don't have time for either job or exercise.

Good thing there's no such thing as a soap opera, is there?

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How we got your country
Posted by: maloo on Aug 12, 2008 9:20 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So if I'm part of an ethnic group that's less than 2% of the population how can we possibly gain control? We'd need to create allies. The majority we're up against are real capitalists, in fact they built their booming economy by inventing and manufacturing. We are more 'anti-capitalism' so we created unions. Now they all vote with us so they can make more money and not work as hard as their non-union neighbors. Another large group we recruited was Blacks. We ran the Civil Rights movement, got them all sorts of programs, encouraged their population boom and now they are voting with us. But there was still too many of these original 'real american' type yahoos voting against us so we changed the immigration policy and let lots of different cultures in to make us more 'diverse'. They now get all kinds of benefits so they vote with us. Oh and the Gays are all ours. We totally support them and whatever excesses they can think of. That goes for child molesters, pornographers, gangstas, anything the Christian majority has a problem with. Our ACLU protects them. And makes sure we don't have to endure their Christmas celebration anymore.

To keep the ball rolling we were able to buy up just about all of their information sources. We had our people writing and producing most of the news, movies, magazines, books, and TV shows and reviews. Now our liberal ideas are considered 'politically correct'. Every drama and talk show shows how bad our government and corporations are and how really great and misunderstood immigrants and minorities are. Our people run the public broadcasting and universities making sure no alternative message gets through.

We had it made for a while. Then Limbaugh slipped through somehow. We got a book out as fast as we could 'Rush Limbaugh is a big fat idiot'. That's the kind of attack we use. Ann Coulter is stupid. O'Reilly is stupid. We do our best to control the Internet, Google is ours and we have so many rabid bloggers you'd think we were the majority in this 'democracy'.

Our history with other host countries hasn't been that good. When we got a good foothold here we decided to create a homeland of our own. A safe place we couldn't be thrown out of when we get 'found out'. We got the 'real americans' to pay for it by tying it in with their Christianity and 'stability in the middle east'. Three billion a year and anyone in government who questions it finds their opponent supported by our huge lobby.

We recruit any 'real american' types we can to be our puppets. They make a lot of money if they behave. Some of our favorites are Al Gore, Katie Couric, and any actors who want to work.

This country has really been a cakewalk. 'Real americans' were so caring and moral they'll accept all our schemes to buy voters using their tax dollars. More programs to help minorities and immigrants. They've seen nothing but positive portrayals from us so 'sure'.

We may have milked them dry now though. They seemed to have an endless supply of riches from their inventive creativity and hard work. A few of those early heroes like Henry Ford and Charles Lindbergh tried to warn them about us. We sued and wrote negative stuff about them. That's worked very well for us. Like Joe McCarthy, ever seen anything positive about him? Okay only from Ann Coulter. She's stupid.

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876
Posted by: 876 on Aug 12, 2008 10:10 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Americans have so much time to worry about such utter crap. They are deluded enough to imagine their rejection of beauty makes them interesting and profound but for most people such things are of secondary concern. It is an ugly commentary on your society when people base the depth of their humanity and their soul on their ponderings regarding images perpetrated by Maxim magazine.

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your article is right on the mark !
Posted by: cherylsass123 on Aug 13, 2008 11:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
as a transwoman whom has lived on both sides, I never could truly understand how these men, beer guts and stinking like sweat- could say " she's fat when maybe she was a [wmns] size 12-14. asll of my so called friends, long before my MTF transition and back to teen years- oogled after those beauty's on charlie's angels and the beer commercials. my teen heartthrob was Christy Mc Nicholas " Buddy" ; the tom-boi teenager on that 70's TV show - Family. I was, as " it. definitely a loser in high school, rejected by those " beautiful women/girls"; many whom I soon learned to hate. I saw those women most boy/men call " pretty" as " stuck-up bitches" and " jock-cock candy. long before transition, living as " it"; I saw myself[ like many MTF transsexuals] as " straight". but I never knew how to get along with women; well except the more butch lesbians whom I loved for refusing to look,act, and be " girly"! for the past 10 years, my TV " prince-cess" has been ellen de generes! she's funny, athletic, very " boy-like"[ Boi] and just plan real. BUT, ask many real,desirable men and they'd find her partner, the ultra high femme actor, portia de rossi- as good looking[ and a " waste of a good woman" because she's NOT attracted to MEN!].maybe I always saw " beauty" from a woman's perspective? I'd often say to the guys back then, "DID YOU EVER REALIZE HOW HARD WOMAN HAVE TO WORK AT BEING SUPPOSEDLY " GOOD LOOKING". one time I remember telling my buddy, greg, a beer drinking ignorant southern redneck slob, " then why don't I see her with YOU??"; this when he said " if I was him I'd be ashamed to be seen with that fat ass pig" sometimes I wonder how many of THEM ever found/kept a woman in their lives?? actually one whom I looked up online did- but I don't think she was any real beauty queen. just a simple, aging like him; new hampshire country gal!

now, as transwoman, I figured out that I was never really " straight" but more like lesbian trapped in the wrong body. my so called pothead buddies, back then; they were all " straight men" that is how many think, like those morons at the macho pick up bar seen in the bud light commercials! I see things from the woman's side , and so, soon took to feminism's values with a fervor.[ most transgender woman, like their biological sisters; read IN STYLE and all want to be " beauty queens".
and so, I love those " feminazis" [ feminists] as many men consider them to be. the national organization for women their own " beauty campaign" out; it is called ' LOVE YOUR BODY'[ www.now.org/loveyourbody ] yes, they are telling the " fat" woman [ from many of these " desirable males" perspectives] to accept herself as she is and NOT try to attain that " hollywood" look. and they are right at NOW and Ms. magazine; especially about how many women are STUPID enough to buy into this beauty shit.
just the other day in the supermarket line, I picked up In Style, that fucking " women's shit rag" to look at the article " must have fall styles" I saw NOTHING I even liked and thought-" give me my plus sized denim mini skirts anyday. this high femme shit is all bullshit; just like most women's magazines[feminist's " Bitch" and "Ms."; others similar, excluded] all seem to be. and yes, does that very same " competition for beauty" exist with women. women will stare other women down for not wearing the " right" fashions, not " coordinating" their colors, etc. and this all because they[too many] want to be hollywood starlets, or fifth ave. NYC models. but I'd much rather a butchy-femme partner, anyway. one whom swears without feeling " unfeminine" and does NOT buy into all that so called " feminine beauty". A REAL WOMAN!

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Good stuff indeed.
Posted by: zaxtervid on Aug 13, 2008 5:24 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Great article, although i do wonder how long it took the author to come to some of these conclusions which to me are really obvious.

But thanks also for helping shed light on why my father, like so many men, ditched his wife for a woman half his age. It was like a tidal wave in the 80s. And my mom was great looking for her age. She still is, people tell her every day.

I think most people don't ever take the time to cultivate their own tastes in ANYTHING. They simply go for what is being fed to them, and what others think is good. That includes their tastes in the opposite sex.

A lot of men are so insecure that they wouldn't ever consider dating someone that may not be considered attractive by the general population.

And you may think people are immune to the stream of media images forming their opinions and tastes, but you're wrong. The level of psychology used in marketing is way beyond the scope of the general population's level of comprehension.

And oh yeah, fat chicks do rule. They're great in bed and their bodies are interesting and fun. Never had an idea until I made out with a big curvy woman one day, and it changed my life forever. I've dated women of all races and body sizes, and you can't tell me a skinny girl is better than a woman with junk in the trunk. That's just my own taste, which I had the courage and interest to cultivate. I work in media, so I know it's all lies :)

PS. big article in AP newswire showing that the spin on overweight is exaggerated immensely. do a news seacrh ,link is too long for Alternet system to post it.

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» RE: Good stuff indeed. Posted by: rickiey
I don't really think this is a problem...
Posted by: Snurpa on Aug 14, 2008 2:13 AM   
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The vast majority of men realize early on that they have no chance with beautiful women (because they are only interested in the most attractive men) so they have a lot of time to accept their rung on the desireability ladder. So unless they are delusional they should quickly get over any dissatifaction.

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What about women seeing attractive men?
Posted by: plusein on Aug 18, 2008 12:08 PM   
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How about being a female teacher and being surrounded by young men who are truly at their sexual peak? The media presents us women with images of older men (007!) as sexually desirable, when teenage girls are portrayed as "jailbait", understandably desirable but legally unobtainable.
As a fashion designer, I am surrounded by male models. Though these guys are really hot, they don't diminish my desire for my boyfriend. The problem is the conception that females exist to please men. Men first see our image, our sexuality, then later see us as people. I can see a model's attractiveness, but also see him as a person. Also, I can recognize that its his JOB to be hot.
Men see life as a buffet of women who want to please them, because thats what sells in advertising and media. The idea of the virgin, the unexperienced youngster is portrayed as hot and sexy, something that a real man would want to get up into and take away.
I see a 17 year old model, and sure he's hot, but would I really want to have sex with someone who's unexperienced in bed, vulnerable, and immature?

Beauty is not the problem. Its the idea that beauty belongs only to women, and exists for the benefit of men. I enjoy my life appreciating the beauty of men, and loving my hot, intelligent, and caring boyfriend, who knows he has no reason to be jealous.

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