SEX & RELATIONSHIPS  
comments_imageCOMMENTS: 106

Catholic Bishops Put Sex Obsession Ahead of Mission to the Sick and the Poor

First they threatened to take down health-care reform over abortion coverage. Now they're threatening services to the sick and poor of Washington, D.C., over same-sex marriage.
November 16, 2009  |  
 
 
LIKE THIS ARTICLE ?
Join our mailing list:

Sign up to stay up to date on the latest Sex & Relationships headlines via email.

 
 
Advertisement
 

They lead a church that claims to stand on the side of the sick and the poor, the meek who shall inherit the earth. But in the course of a single week, the bishops of the Roman Catholic Church proclaimed themselves willing to see health-care denied to millions of uninsured Americans, and to yank the social-service rug out from under the feet of tens of thousands of urban poor in the nation's capital -- all to serve the bishops' obsession with the sex lives and reproductive organs of others.

The church's week of shame began with the bishops' role in creating the monster that is the Stupak amendment to the health-care reform bill passed last weekend by the House of Representatives, when the bishops refused to bless a compromise made between pro-choice and anti-abortion Democrats in the language of the bill. (Without the bishops' blessing, anti-choice Democrats vowed to vote against the bill, so Speaker Nancy Pelosi was strong-armed into allowing Rep. Bart Stupak, D-Mich., to bring an anti-choice amendment to the floor.) Finishing off the week with a brutal bang, the church threatened to sever its social service contracts with the District of Columbia if the city council of Washington, D.C., passes a measure legalizing same-sex marriage -- a move that would throw services to 68,000 of the poorest and most vulnerable citizens of the nation's capital into chaos.

This week in the life of the church, says Frances Kissling, the long-time Catholic feminist activist and current visiting scholar at the University of Pennsylvania Center for Bioethics, demonstrated the church's "willingness to just be a bully." (Full disclosure: I worked for Kissling in 1998, during her 30-year tenure at the helm of Catholics for Choice.)

The Poor Must Suffer for the Sin of Same-Sex Marriage

Edward Orzechowski is the president and chief executive officer of Catholic Charities of the Archdiocese of Washington. At issue for the church, he said in a press statement, is that the committee drafting the measure in the city council had adjusted the language so that the church would be forbidden from discriminating against same-sex couples in either the adoptions it arranges for the city's foster-care system, or in the employment benefits it offers to its own personnel.

Many of the people who work for Catholic Charities, Orzechowski told the Washington Post, hail from the LGBT community, so the church would be forced to violate its tenets if the anti-discrimination provision remained in the marriage-equality measure. Just so you have that straight: gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender people are good enough to work for Catholic Charities, as long as it's okay for the church offer them a lower level of benefits than those conferred on heterosexual couples. And what of the thousands of good people who work hard jobs for low pay in the employ of Catholic Charities in Washington? What will become of their jobs if the church severs its contracts with the city?

"It's a dangerous thing when the Catholic Church starts writing and determining the legislation and the laws of the District of Columbia," said city council member Tommy Wells (D-Ward 6), chairman of the Human Services Committee, told the Post, only to receive this rejoinder:

Susan Gibbs, a spokeswoman for the archdiocese, countered that the city is "the one giving the ultimatum."

"We are not threatening to walk out of the city," Gibbs said. "The city is the one saying, 'If you want to continue partnering with the city, then you cannot follow your faith teachings.' "

"This is the way the church has dealt with every human being from time immemorial -- and that is to somehow make everybody else feel guilty, and they're never guilty," said Kissling, the former president of Catholics for Choice, in an interview with AlterNet. "It's true in your personal life, it's true about if you have an abortion, or if you're gay, or if you want to get divorced. It's always, somehow, you who is being selfish."

Bishops on Steroids

To many observers, the church's strong-arming of both House Democrats and the Democrats of the District of Columbia city council arrived as a sudden and unexpected show of force. Except for the election-year antics of individual bishops bent on denying the church's sacraments to pro-choice Catholic politicians, the institutional church has assumed a more reserved political posture in recent years. That may be, in part, that eight years of the Bush administration gave them less to oppose at the federal level in the way of abortion rights. But the big obstacle to the flexing of the the magisterial muscle in the political arena was the church's willingness to hide the sexual crimes of its priests -- crimes perpetrated against children, first exposed by the Boston Globe in 2002.

"And the sex abuse thing was on everybody's mind, and every time they tried to flex their muscles, somebody would bring up the sex abuse," Kissling explained. "So they didn't get as much of an opportunity to flex their muscles because their moral authority had been totally eroded. Nobody remembers anything for very long, you know? And now it's like, eight years, or whatever it's been since the sex-abuse thing, and so nobody's talking about that any more. And so now they can flex their muscles again."

By its own account, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops reports that it has paid a total of $2.6 billion to settle sexual-abuse claims made against its priests. Since the Globe broke the story of of the bishops' practice of concealing the crimes of abusive priests while moving them from parish to parish, where they claimed additional victims, seven dioceses have filed for bankruptcy because of the abuse claims.

Just last month, the Diocese of Wilmington, Delaware, filed for federal bankruptcy protection on the eve of a civil trial about the church's role in the abuse scandal, after settlement negotiations with victims of priestly sex-abuse broke down. Bankruptcy protection could permit the diocese to keep secret for years to come what its leaders knew about the abuse, David Clohessy of Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests told Bloomberg News, if long delays in the resolution of plaintiffs' lawsuits result from bankruptcy protection. "The crisis has always been about secrecy for church officials, from day one," he said. The bankruptcy filing put a hold on all 131 sex-abuse cases against the diocese.

Sex and Secrets in the Church

There is no small irony in the church's self-appointed role as the moral arbiter of human sexuality, whether in the areas of human reproduction or non-heterosexual sex. As an institution, it ranks among the world's most sexually dysfunctional. Its demands for life-long celibacy from its priests and nuns attract no small number people who are uncomfortable with their own sexuality -- be it something as benign and normal as homosexuality, or something criminal and predatory, as in the case of the priests who preyed on minors. Despite the high number of gay men in the priesthood -- most of them likely celibate -- speaking of their orientation publicly, while not expressly proscribed, is not exactly encouraged. The church addresses the sexuality of its own leaders by drawing a curtain around it, creating a culture of sexual secrecy that can only lead to dysfunction. By its actions, the church seems to say it's not the sex that's the sin, but evidence thereof. And that makes heterosexual sex primarily a woman's sin, evidenced by pregnancy, a dynamic that feeds the misogyny of the church's all-male leadership.

Many will argue that the church's anti-abortion position is not about sex; it's about the fetus, they will say. Yet if you take the church's fierce opposition to abortion -- without mercy even in cases of rape or incest -- in the context of its opposition to contraception, it becomes difficult to accept the notion that the church's dysfunction on matters of sexuality doesn't enter into the equation.

The church has long excluded women from the priesthood for no reason other than their sex. Only a very naive or stupid woman would take church leaders at their word when they stake their abortion position on their purported love for the fetus.  How many pregnant women will the Archdiocese of Washington abandon in favor maintaining a discriminatory practice against those LGBT people willing to speak the name of a love once denied them. How many babies born to mothers unable to care for them would the church prefer to see languish in foster care rather than place them in the home of a same-sex couple capable of raising them? Does love for the fetus end at the outer bank of the birth canal?

Getting Their Way?

At press time, leading members the city council of the District of Columbia seemed unwilling to yield to the church's demands. If the church walks away from its contractual obligations to society's less fortunate, it won't be the first time it has done so. In Boston, where the sex-abuse scandal first came to light, Catholic Charities ended its adoption programs in 2006 when Massachusetts banned discrimination against same-sex couples. In 1991, the City of New York reached a compromise with the Archdiocese of New York after a threat to give back to the city thousands of teen-age children in foster care after the state passed a law mandating access to contraceptives for children over the age of 12.

But in the Congress, things are different. There a stand against the newly invigorated church can mean major policy losses, thanks to the efforts of conservative Democrats like Stupak, recruited by the Democratic National Committee to run in less-than-liberal districts, who are allied with the bishops on matters concerning women's rights.

"So the bishops were able to get their way," Kissling says of the anti-abortion measure added to the health-care bill. "And the thing with the bishops is, if they can get their way, no nuance or doubt enters their minds about whether getting their way is the right thing to do."

NOTE: The Catholic Alliance for the Common Good, a group that supports the anti-abortion Stupak amendment, was invited to comment for this article. AlterNet's call was not returned.

 

 

Adele M. Stan AlterNet's Washington bureau chief.
Email
Print
Share
Post on reddit
Post on stumbleupon
Post on facebook
Post on digg
Post on twitter
Post on delicious
LIKED THIS ARTICLE? JOIN OUR EMAIL LIST
Stay up to date with the latest Sex & Relationships headlines via email


Comments are closed-

The Irrelevancy of the Roman Church
Posted by: billslm on Nov 16, 2009 1:49 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Roman Church is losing one after another of the traditional believers at an alarming rate in their incomprehensible insistance on irrelevant and rigid dogma. They have beautiful cathedrals but that is all. The ugliness of the history of the Roman Church is enough to make one wonder why people still give it any credence. The Inquisition in the 13th Century was an appalling episode, but it did show once and for all time how Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely. Later, in the 16th Century there were the Borgia Popes; Cesare Borgia living openly with his mistress and their murderous and thieving progeny. In Italy, as one visits art museums and old Palazzos, it becomes obvious that Cardinalship and the Papacy were the only way to wealth. Even today, the most powerful families of Italy are those with Cardinals and Popes in the family history.

In the meantime there was the Reformation, Luther reacting in disgust at the out and out corruption and still, basically, the Church felt that it was beyond reproach.

The deals that Pope Pius 11th made with Hitler make one ill to contemplate. And even in this era, we have the pedophile priests molesting boys.

If the bishops had any sense at all they'd keep their mouths shut tight and concentrate on doing good works--- such as care for the poor.

I remember when I was a kid. The movie, The Moon Is Blue, a sophisticated comedy, one of the first after the Hollywood Movie Code went away. How the Monsignor in our church howled his disapproval in the pulpit and forbid his congregation, under pain of Mortal Sin, for which one would burn eternally, in Hell, from seeing the film. The same Monsignor, however, stole more than a million dollars in donations he had been quietly stashing in his own bank account. He withdrew every penny when he retired to Ireland.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Relevant to being inhumane.. Posted by: luzmejor

Comments are closed-

CONSTITUTIONAL REMINDER
Posted by: bryangalt on Nov 16, 2009 3:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This episode with the Catholic Church should be a wake up jolt to everyone in this country as to why the Founders insisted on the seperation of church and state. There is ample evidence throughout history, recent and long-term, that mixing the two is a potent cocktail that leads to human suffering and dispair.

I applaud the Washington DC City Council for sticking to their ideals. It is wrong to continue discrimination against GLBT people, period. If the Catholic Church, or any other religious organization won't follow the law, and chooses to no longer accept our tax dollars to serve the community, then fuck 'em.

The reality is they should never have been getting the money to begin with. The government shouldn't be handing out our tax dollars to any religious organization, but even more so to one that feels it shouldn't be forced to follow the laws of the United States.

No good will ever come out of allowing religion and government to mix. The Founders knew this and their admonition on the matter was a warning to the future-it's too bad we aren't listening any more.

Bryan Galt dot US

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: The Good News: Posted by: oregoncharles

Comments are closed-

Selective outrage
Posted by: LeonBNJ on Nov 16, 2009 3:35 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is the same church that allowed 1000's of it priests to get away with among the worst of mortal sins of same gender and hetrosexual sexual crimes, including rape, of minors. This is the same church that gives help to people here illegally in the USA but denies to long time citizens and faithful because they are not active in the church. This is the same church that is against Abortion but generally accepts the use of the Death Penalty. The Bishops never condemmed the use of torture on Islamic alleged terror suspects, but they howl loudly at any slightest tasteless comment of the church and it's symbols in the media.
And they wonder why they are losing followers.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Good Catch, Oregoncharles Posted by: Eric.Arthur.Blair
» RE: Second thoughts: Posted by: oregoncharles
» Just Being Fair Posted by: Eric.Arthur.Blair
» RE: Thanks for the correction Posted by: kettleblack
» RE: Selective outrage Posted by: finleyd

Comments are closed-

Pleasures Of Sin
Posted by: melpol on Nov 16, 2009 4:36 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Curbing pleasure by calling it sin has always been the top agenda of the Catholic church. They are supported by most corporate executives who need a docile work force. It is one in which employees are comfortable taking orders from a higher authority. The rebellion against traditional marriage by homosexuals is seen by the church as an infringement of its authority. They fear it will lead to a wave of enlightened Catholics experiencing the pleasures of what they call sin.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Who the Fuck are the Cat-Lick Bishops....
Posted by: moloko velocet on Nov 16, 2009 5:15 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and why the hell do they have any say at all in my goddam legislature!!!???

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: let's tax them Posted by: Sister_Lauren

Comments are closed-

Sex IS The Churches Obsession
Posted by: Atheistno1 on Nov 16, 2009 5:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Again we see another blog that highlights the Religious sectors obsession with sex & it's ongoing nasty inbuilt culture & the government administration's willingness to support policies that enhance the power of sexual discrimination. Tonight, on ABC TV's Lateline program 16/11/09, Obama called for other countries to support the gender discrimination policy that abuses children & Western culture calls family law but play's it up as domestic violence against women. The revelations that stopping all domestic violence is equal to the claim by Prime minister Bob Hawk, "No Child in Poverty" because like the gay community, the real crutch of the issue is diverted to another form of reason & played as something not mentioned & in their case it's now being played as a legality that will support incests, paedophiles, or other forms of sexual deviance.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Stan, an anti-Catholic biggot ?
Posted by: citizenjoe on Nov 16, 2009 5:49 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With the virtual collapse of Obama's presidential authority, the repeated violation of his campaign promises, the defeat of his major political endeavors, the sell out to the banks, the insurance companies, the endless insubordination of the military and of the Democratic Party, the increasing impoverishment of the working and middle classes, and the endless imperial wars, etc., Adele Stan attacks the Catholic hierarchy? And not for the first time either.This reminds me of nothing so much as the traditional American scapegoating of Jews. Come on Alternet, you pay Stan to do this? Progressives can do much better.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Read my reply to Sister Lauren Posted by: citizenjoe
» RE: Stan, an anti-Catholic biggot ? Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» We have to figure it out Posted by: citizenjoe
» Absolute nonsense Posted by: brunowe
» Hey Slow Down There Cowboy. Posted by: That_SOB

Comments are closed-

Peter "The Rock"
Posted by: Purple Girl on Nov 16, 2009 6:17 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That Humanity has had it's head bashed with for 2 millenia.
Next to killing someone with your own bare hands, bashing their head in with a Rock must come in about second in the oldest form of force.
The ROMAN Catholic Church has been bashing heads since their inception. In fact they began when they were merely called Romans.
We may have misinterpreted the meaning behind Christs nickname for Ol Peter. Instead of referring to stability and resolve. He was referring to Peters tendency to use force and intimadation.Reviewing the Vaticans History that is at least how they have defined it. these are not the Christians slaughtered by the Romans, it's the Romans who slaughter the true Christians.
The Evangelicals have the same Schtick, and aspriations for 'Glory'.Only the slighest of variations is that Theirs is a delusion of the future, not the Romans dreams of resurrecting the past.
Here lies within the real division in Christianity (and probabaly many others faiths), Are Religious hierarchies required for communion with God and thus salvation? Christ Thought Not.
So Peters Church is built not on a rock, but a fault line (Lie). Peter Built his Own 'Temple' under a Roman name.Hades/Pluto Stood at the 'Gates' as well. Installed all the same trappings of both the Jewish Heirarchy and 'Pagan' ritualism that was outright rejected by Jesus.Bread and wine as stand ins for Blood and flesh. Yes We Sacrificed Christ the 'lamb of God' so we could reap the "benefits".Through this sacrific humanity was washed of it's sins? Are you fucking kidding, His sacrific was OUR sin! It not something to be revered, but shamed.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Peter "The Rock" Posted by: fma7

Comments are closed-

Make the churches pay taxes, THEN give them a voice
Posted by: peterjkraus on Nov 16, 2009 6:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Tax the fuckers who, for 2000 years, have been running the biggest scam the world has ever seen. Tax them or start looking at them with a criminalist's eye.

Either way, they'd start having to toe the line.

Who do they think they are... God?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

The RC Church took 9/11 $$$$
Posted by: weathered on Nov 16, 2009 6:33 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
big time. Its got flushed through Newark 9/11am before they pulled down all 3 bldgs.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: The RC Church took 9/11 $$$$ Posted by: Sister_Lauren

Comments are closed-

Sins of the Church
Posted by: Frankiex on Nov 16, 2009 6:41 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The media still occasionally talk about the pedophile priests. Now that same sex marriage is the issue, I would like to see a report in the media about all the Catholic priests who died of AIDS in the 80s. There were a lot of them, including bishops and above. And obviously they were sexually active homosexuals. Perhaps that would quiet the hierarchy's opposition to gays today.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

THE VATICAN WILL CAUSE CATHOLICISM TO FAIL
Posted by: drricklippin on Nov 16, 2009 7:13 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Unless the current conservative leadership at the Vatican is toppled we will witness the collapse of a huge worldwide religion.

Out of the ashes a new Catholicism will be born.

It will be painful but necessary to witness.

Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton,Pa

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

God Of The World
Posted by: Drafus D. Dragon on Nov 16, 2009 7:17 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
GOD OF THE WORLD

The Roman Catholic Church has always cared more about their God, money and power, than about the suffering of mankind. Their teachings have created it through fear and guilt. Their brutal and bloody history, you'd think, would be enough. It is about control of the masses. It has always been about politics, not about love. It is God in man's image and it is deadly as is evident wherever we look.

I am an artist and writer. I've written extensively about this travesty we call religion on my website: www.saintlysinnersloft.com under the "Manifesto" link.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: God Of nothing Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: God Of The World Posted by: Richardsievert

Comments are closed-

Hypocrisy......
Posted by: Spiritgirl on Nov 16, 2009 7:28 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is a reason that the founders have a separation of Church & State clause, because they knew the abuse and havoc that that would create for the average American! It's really a shame that that is something today's Americans forget to our own peril!

Of course the hypocrisy is astounding on many levels; this is the same church that allowed their sadistic priests to molest children and then covered it up for years, this is the same church that is supposed to be "the final" authority for "morality" and they effectively would blackmail the District's sick and poor because they recognize LBGT people?!?!? WTH! Is that really what they think Jesus would do?

No! The Catholic Church in reality they hate women, period! It's ok with them if women are dirt poor having babies that they can't take care of, but they have a problem with LBGT folk, puhlease!! I think the real problem is that these "men" have never known the love of a woman or a man and are sooo confused and full of "backlog" that they have started hating themselves! How about they allow themselves to get married, at least a spouse would relieve their lonely nights!!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Hypocrisy...... Posted by: fma7
» RE: Hypocrisy...... Posted by: illit

Comments are closed-

Getting health insurance through employers is a screwy system
Posted by: plantland on Nov 16, 2009 7:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article illustrates some of the problems that come about when employers are expected to pay for their workers' health insurance.

In this instance, Catholic Charities resents being dictated to in ways it can't accept- or afford.

What they can spend on services for those they help, like recent immigrants or paying more workers goes down if they have to pay for a package for that worker's family, or to create a family for the worker using expensive IVF procedures and surrogates, etc.

I don't think the Catholic Church should dictate to Congess about abortion, but I am not sure that the Church should have to let the DC Council force them to act against their beliefs either.

I am surprised that they don't seem to discriminate in hiring overall- good for them.
But reader comments made me realize that they are also receiving grants from government, as opposed to simply using the bequests of parishioners for theri social aims. I wish I knew the ratio of what comes from their congregants vs what they compete for in grant money.

Single payer would also help products made in the US compete better with imports, which don't have to add the costs of health insurance as directly to their products.

Making even more employers pay to insure their workers and their families, or pay penalities as both the House and Senate bill would do, is out of synch with the need to create new jobs for our distressed unemployed.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Why the Gay Marriage Message Is Misfiring: Part 1
Posted by: Sister_Lauren on Nov 16, 2009 8:17 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]

Comments are closed-

These men do not act like men of God! Has the Catholic Church been infiltrated over the centuries
Posted by: JohnTruth2001 on Nov 16, 2009 9:21 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
like the U.S. gov't has been???

What happened of the mission to care for the sick & poor? Why does the Vatican hoard the wealth that could feed the planet???

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: No, they were always like this: Posted by: oregoncharles
» Death to the Church! Posted by: and_abottleofrum
» RE: I didn't say that. Posted by: oregoncharles

Comments are closed-

Since When...
Posted by: oregoncharles on Nov 16, 2009 9:43 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
do we let pedophiles dictate policy to the rest of us?

(Quoted from a comment on a previous string - just in case that person doesn't get to it.)

And what makes the Bishops think we've forgotten?

And yes, it's absolutely relevant: it reveals how ruthless and amoral they really are.

The scum also rises.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» These hypocrite Catholic leaders, Posted by: and_abottleofrum

Comments are closed-

makaainana
Posted by: Makaainana on Nov 16, 2009 9:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What would Christ do?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

The Good News:
Posted by: oregoncharles on Nov 16, 2009 9:45 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Catholic Church will no longer be administering social services in D.C., giving them power over the poor there.

The less power they have over people's lives, the better.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

ted
Posted by: tedri50 on Nov 16, 2009 10:23 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the 'church's should lose their tax exemptions - with that money going to the services they now provide [with limitations based on their 'conscience']. this would leave them with one less tool with which to blackmail society.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Secularism
Posted by: bonapartist on Nov 16, 2009 10:33 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is a very simple concept and apparently the one that has a hard time taking root. The basic premises that the church and the state must be separated. Period. At the same time it is often forgotten that the secular state guarantees the freedom of practicing one's religion freely or not practicing at all.

That is when the idea usually breaks down and the whole train of anti Catholicism etc comes out. Scroll the responses even in this forum if you will, very few will denounce all organized religions and fewer still will demand separation of church and state combined with a freedom of worship.

There is an old saying that anti Catholicism is antisemitism for the liberals and thus acceptable. Catholic church, as any other religious group, should have no say in the government whatsoever. Period.

However the moment you start with the reasoning of religion A is worse than religion B and thus religion A should be banned, you are forcing people to take sides.

In a nutshell all religions and creeds should be separated from the state, no exceptions and no special cases. So long as the aim is set at one group (Catholics, Evangelicals, Muslims) the game is lost before it even started.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: AntiCatholic vs. AntiClerical Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: AntiCatholic vs. AntiClerical Posted by: bonapartist

Comments are closed-

Devoid of Moral Authority
Posted by: thornwolf on Nov 16, 2009 11:12 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone can see that the "catholic" church is devoid of moral authority. The mere existence of fancy vestments, gold ornamentation and pricey artworks, all trappings of wealth and power, not to mention sexual abuse and right-wing politics, all speak of a distinctly temporal orientation, not a spiritual one. The church hierarchy amply demonstrate what they stand for. Can you picture Jesus dressed up like the pope? Doesn't that say something?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

tangodaddy
Posted by: tangodaddy on Nov 16, 2009 11:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With the Catholic church and all other churchs obviously lobbying its time to revisit your tax free status

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Catholic Power Priorities: Sex Obsession first, Sick later...
Posted by: spbreathnach on Nov 16, 2009 11:17 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Without sounding paternalistic, it is truly gratifying to see more Americans turn their critical attention on the role of the Catholic Church in every aspect of their governmental institutions. The RCC has a controlling interest in most of those countries in which it allows its Jesuits free reign. These states are all 'Papal States' in the old sense of that word.

Ireland, Poland, the Phillipines are all Papal States,and in each of them the entire secular project of production is adumbrated. Not only do these countries try to survive on the most medieval notions, but they surrender their entire intellectual motor force to a pathetics cabal of ignorant celibates, most die-hard Jesuits who exhibit a spurious sense of secular knowledge and learning. These celibates subvert the machinery of government and , as has been evidenced so often in hisory, are prepared to die rather than share Papal power.

Mexico, Spain, Austria, Italy and Germany are linked together in the production of WW1 and WW2. American only comes into its own with these wars and the infiltration of American politics by Catholic 'universities'. Since WW11, India, America and South America have been closely brought into alignment by a concerted universal church, which really does not mind war, if only they can direct the where, the when and the why of it. Its secret missions, hidden invariably behind 'charitable projects', is becoming farcical.

Secular authorities , in my opinion, have no real idea of the dedication of these celibates to acquiring world domination. Government after government gives way, at first to charitable projects, then legislative and educaitonal programmes. Thereafter, piecemeal party-systems are afraid of the homogeneous strength and international terror of the Roman Church.

The current rumble concerning the emphasis on fertility and sexual control by the RCC in preference to helping the poor and the infirm is only one rumble among thousands of other such conflicts that reveal the real nature of the Roman church around the world -- all of which conflicts are led and instigated by the smallest of states, the Vatican, controlled by one man, a Pharaoh and Vicar to the memory of Titus Caesar, a little Italian tyrant.

Can secular America -- even to the memory of Vietnam and such places -- do nothing to stem the tide of this universally unhealthy subversive...???


Seamus Breathnach

www.irish-criminology.com

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Hell, They Chose Abortion Over The Iraq War
Posted by: rgoalierob on Nov 16, 2009 11:39 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a recovering Catholic, that proved to me that they were in bed with the GOP. They'd rather oppress women than do something about poverty and needless war, in spite of Pope John Paul II's protestations.
The American Catholic Church is pointless.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Jew Rabbis Put Obsession With Killing Muslims Ahead Loving their Neighbors
Posted by: barefeet on Nov 16, 2009 12:09 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
America and Alternet is populated with One-Eyed Jacks. You can all kiss my ass.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Please don't say Catholic Bishops. Say "American Bishops"
Posted by: ais1956 on Nov 16, 2009 12:11 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a Catholic from India. The behavior of American bishops shocks me. They are right-wing Americans. They are Catholic only in name. They have supported racism; they have actively supported the imperialist policies of the Bush administration; even though Pope John Paul II said: "a war in Iraq would be a defeat for humanity".
It seems to me that American Bishops are not satisfied with allowing their priests to bugger boys and get away with it. Now they want to do the same thing to the entire country.
I am an American citizen now. The greatest thing about this country's foundation is the separation of Church and State.
NO AMERICAN should tolerate political interfearance by clergy - of any religion.
The founding fathers setup a wall of separation between church and state because they wanted to protect the church. History shows that whenever clergy have political power, it corrupts the church. This has happened to all religions not just Christianity.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Edd Doerr
Posted by: EddDoerr on Nov 16, 2009 2:02 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Readers of this piece and its commentators would find interesting the new book "The Purple Culture", by Stephen Boehrer (2009). Boehrer, a former priest and diocesan chancellor, neatly describes in this short, readable novel the "purple culture" and "malignant narcissism" of all too many top Catholic Church leaders now and over the centuries. Unfortunately, too many non-Catholic politicians and pundits have a higher regard for, or fear of, the church hierarchy than the average Catholic. As several comments have noted, our country really needs to take the constitutional principle of separation of church and state seriously. We should note that two thirds of Catholic Democrats in the House voted against the anti-choice Stupak/Pitts amendment, as did 16 out of 18 Catholic women members of the House. -- Edd Doerr, Pres., Americans for Religious Liberty, www.arlinc.org

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

good - let 'em all go away
Posted by: illit on Nov 16, 2009 2:24 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
all religious institutions in this country have too much power/authority AND to top it off we all have to subsidize them via their tax-exempt status.

The only way for religions to freely vent their spleen is to be NON tax supported.

Send a nice fat tax bill to the Catholic/Baptist/christian/Mormon/Jewish/Islamic/ad nauseam places of worship and the rest of us can get on with our lives with decent health care and who cares who marries who(M?)

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

All The Government Has To Do Is Remind Them They Get Tax Dollars For Social Programs
Posted by: desidid on Nov 16, 2009 2:41 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
then cut them off. That would teach any one who forgets that their money is provided by Americans who don't share their political, religious, or social point of view. And then take their tax exemption from them too.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Catholic Bishops
Posted by: frank69 on Nov 16, 2009 4:16 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Catholic Bishops' hypocrisy knows no bounds. The coverup of sexual crimes is absolutely disgusting and criminal. Consequently, I for one, feel the Catholic Church left me, rather than the other way around.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Catholic Cult
Posted by: jwbeeno on Nov 16, 2009 4:54 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
LOL, is anyone surprised by this? If it involves little boys and/or sex, rest assured its a priority with them. I am not sure which is the biggest cult, the Catholics or the Scientologists.

Hess
Online Privacy when it Counts

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Ice in their veins
Posted by: PaulK on Nov 16, 2009 5:27 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
On the order of 100,000 children and adults in the U.S. will die each year that we don't have national health care. I can't imagine anyone holding this program for ransom.

People will die if they aren't fed. I can't imagine anyone holding this program for ransom.

I have a sense that "Christianity" isn't primarily about wielding raw, naked political power in a high stakes poker game. Blessed are those with ice in their veins? Which Jesus of Nazareth is that?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Until
Posted by: JefffromCA on Nov 16, 2009 6:37 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
they stop fu*king altar boys or aiding and abetting the pedophile priests they have no credibility.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Make the Catholic Church pay taxes
Posted by: Jersey Devil on Nov 16, 2009 8:52 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
OK, so the Roman Catholic Church is no longer a faith-based organization but a PAC - strip them of their tax exempt status on income and property taxes.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

http://www.ebuyings.com
Posted by: jacklang0001 on Nov 17, 2009 5:52 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.ebuyings.com
have some cheap things ...
nike shoes, fashion clothes ;brand handbags ,wallet ...
free shipping
competitive price
any size available
accept the paypal

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

It should be pretty evident by now that the Catholic Church...
Posted by: ShrubtheWarcriminal on Nov 17, 2009 8:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...is the most evil, genocidal religion to ever exist.

Just take one particular time in history.

J. M. Robertson has estimated that from the first crusade launched by Pope Urban II in 1095 to the fall of Acre in 1291, nine million lives were lost.

This may be an overestimation, but the number is certainly in the millions and represents only the beginning of the carnage which places the Catholic Church in the same league with the Third Reich and the purges of Stalin or Mao.

Before the crusades against the 'heathens' were concluded, the popes began an internal crusade against heretics within Christendom. The resulting Inquisition lasted officially almost 600 years and resulted in the loss of additional millions of lives.

As a recovering Catholic, there is little doubt in my mind that if given the chance, the present Nazi pope would repeat this event.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

makaainana
Posted by: Makaainana on Nov 18, 2009 9:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Catholic Priests and their protectors have been putting sex ahead of their own salvation for years.
So its no surprise they are putting sex ahead of the needs of the poor.

They need to stop making judgments on society and teach us and themselves to simply ask, "What would Christ do?"

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Bill Keenan
Posted by: unionyes on Nov 21, 2009 6:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a lifelong Catholic and one time Altar-boy, I'm saddened and ashamed that the Catholic Church continues to care only about the unborn at the cost of all other critical issues that effect those that have already been brought into this world. They supported Bush over Kerry (remember their refusal to serve Kerry communion at the height of his campaign)despite Bush's neanderthal positions on the poor, torture, war, labor union's, civil rights etc., then repeated with McCain. Thank God the Catholic faithful didn't listen and voted for Obama. Now they're willing to throw away health care for millions and millions of Americans due to their obsession with the unborn. They continue to maintain their zealot position and to hell with the consequences. We must all recognize and respect the right to maintain our own beliefs on the abortion issue but let's not destroy the fabric of our society and punish those who don't follow the churches dogma.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

nice
Posted by: Serenalin on Dec 4, 2009 11:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We meet in the night in the Spanish cafe , we give a hug for each other with pleasure, at that moment, how i wish come with U and stay with U forever, NFL JERSEYS
football jersey
NFL

this is forever!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Alternet Comments:

Comments are closed-

The Irrelevancy of the Roman Church
Posted by: billslm on Nov 16, 2009 1:49 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Roman Church is losing one after another of the traditional believers at an alarming rate in their incomprehensible insistance on irrelevant and rigid dogma. They have beautiful cathedrals but that is all. The ugliness of the history of the Roman Church is enough to make one wonder why people still give it any credence. The Inquisition in the 13th Century was an appalling episode, but it did show once and for all time how Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely. Later, in the 16th Century there were the Borgia Popes; Cesare Borgia living openly with his mistress and their murderous and thieving progeny. In Italy, as one visits art museums and old Palazzos, it becomes obvious that Cardinalship and the Papacy were the only way to wealth. Even today, the most powerful families of Italy are those with Cardinals and Popes in the family history.

In the meantime there was the Reformation, Luther reacting in disgust at the out and out corruption and still, basically, the Church felt that it was beyond reproach.

The deals that Pope Pius 11th made with Hitler make one ill to contemplate. And even in this era, we have the pedophile priests molesting boys.

If the bishops had any sense at all they'd keep their mouths shut tight and concentrate on doing good works--- such as care for the poor.

I remember when I was a kid. The movie, The Moon Is Blue, a sophisticated comedy, one of the first after the Hollywood Movie Code went away. How the Monsignor in our church howled his disapproval in the pulpit and forbid his congregation, under pain of Mortal Sin, for which one would burn eternally, in Hell, from seeing the film. The same Monsignor, however, stole more than a million dollars in donations he had been quietly stashing in his own bank account. He withdrew every penny when he retired to Ireland.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Relevant to being inhumane.. Posted by: luzmejor

Comments are closed-

CONSTITUTIONAL REMINDER
Posted by: bryangalt on Nov 16, 2009 3:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This episode with the Catholic Church should be a wake up jolt to everyone in this country as to why the Founders insisted on the seperation of church and state. There is ample evidence throughout history, recent and long-term, that mixing the two is a potent cocktail that leads to human suffering and dispair.

I applaud the Washington DC City Council for sticking to their ideals. It is wrong to continue discrimination against GLBT people, period. If the Catholic Church, or any other religious organization won't follow the law, and chooses to no longer accept our tax dollars to serve the community, then fuck 'em.

The reality is they should never have been getting the money to begin with. The government shouldn't be handing out our tax dollars to any religious organization, but even more so to one that feels it shouldn't be forced to follow the laws of the United States.

No good will ever come out of allowing religion and government to mix. The Founders knew this and their admonition on the matter was a warning to the future-it's too bad we aren't listening any more.

Bryan Galt dot US

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: The Good News: Posted by: oregoncharles

Comments are closed-

Selective outrage
Posted by: LeonBNJ on Nov 16, 2009 3:35 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is the same church that allowed 1000's of it priests to get away with among the worst of mortal sins of same gender and hetrosexual sexual crimes, including rape, of minors. This is the same church that gives help to people here illegally in the USA but denies to long time citizens and faithful because they are not active in the church. This is the same church that is against Abortion but generally accepts the use of the Death Penalty. The Bishops never condemmed the use of torture on Islamic alleged terror suspects, but they howl loudly at any slightest tasteless comment of the church and it's symbols in the media.
And they wonder why they are losing followers.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Good Catch, Oregoncharles Posted by: Eric.Arthur.Blair
» RE: Second thoughts: Posted by: oregoncharles
» Just Being Fair Posted by: Eric.Arthur.Blair
» RE: Thanks for the correction Posted by: kettleblack
» RE: Selective outrage Posted by: finleyd

Comments are closed-

Pleasures Of Sin
Posted by: melpol on Nov 16, 2009 4:36 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Curbing pleasure by calling it sin has always been the top agenda of the Catholic church. They are supported by most corporate executives who need a docile work force. It is one in which employees are comfortable taking orders from a higher authority. The rebellion against traditional marriage by homosexuals is seen by the church as an infringement of its authority. They fear it will lead to a wave of enlightened Catholics experiencing the pleasures of what they call sin.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Who the Fuck are the Cat-Lick Bishops....
Posted by: moloko velocet on Nov 16, 2009 5:15 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and why the hell do they have any say at all in my goddam legislature!!!???

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: let's tax them Posted by: Sister_Lauren

Comments are closed-

Sex IS The Churches Obsession
Posted by: Atheistno1 on Nov 16, 2009 5:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Again we see another blog that highlights the Religious sectors obsession with sex & it's ongoing nasty inbuilt culture & the government administration's willingness to support policies that enhance the power of sexual discrimination. Tonight, on ABC TV's Lateline program 16/11/09, Obama called for other countries to support the gender discrimination policy that abuses children & Western culture calls family law but play's it up as domestic violence against women. The revelations that stopping all domestic violence is equal to the claim by Prime minister Bob Hawk, "No Child in Poverty" because like the gay community, the real crutch of the issue is diverted to another form of reason & played as something not mentioned & in their case it's now being played as a legality that will support incests, paedophiles, or other forms of sexual deviance.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Stan, an anti-Catholic biggot ?
Posted by: citizenjoe on Nov 16, 2009 5:49 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With the virtual collapse of Obama's presidential authority, the repeated violation of his campaign promises, the defeat of his major political endeavors, the sell out to the banks, the insurance companies, the endless insubordination of the military and of the Democratic Party, the increasing impoverishment of the working and middle classes, and the endless imperial wars, etc., Adele Stan attacks the Catholic hierarchy? And not for the first time either.This reminds me of nothing so much as the traditional American scapegoating of Jews. Come on Alternet, you pay Stan to do this? Progressives can do much better.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Read my reply to Sister Lauren Posted by: citizenjoe
» RE: Stan, an anti-Catholic biggot ? Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» We have to figure it out Posted by: citizenjoe
» Absolute nonsense Posted by: brunowe
» Hey Slow Down There Cowboy. Posted by: That_SOB

Comments are closed-

Peter "The Rock"
Posted by: Purple Girl on Nov 16, 2009 6:17 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That Humanity has had it's head bashed with for 2 millenia.
Next to killing someone with your own bare hands, bashing their head in with a Rock must come in about second in the oldest form of force.
The ROMAN Catholic Church has been bashing heads since their inception. In fact they began when they were merely called Romans.
We may have misinterpreted the meaning behind Christs nickname for Ol Peter. Instead of referring to stability and resolve. He was referring to Peters tendency to use force and intimadation.Reviewing the Vaticans History that is at least how they have defined it. these are not the Christians slaughtered by the Romans, it's the Romans who slaughter the true Christians.
The Evangelicals have the same Schtick, and aspriations for 'Glory'.Only the slighest of variations is that Theirs is a delusion of the future, not the Romans dreams of resurrecting the past.
Here lies within the real division in Christianity (and probabaly many others faiths), Are Religious hierarchies required for communion with God and thus salvation? Christ Thought Not.
So Peters Church is built not on a rock, but a fault line (Lie). Peter Built his Own 'Temple' under a Roman name.Hades/Pluto Stood at the 'Gates' as well. Installed all the same trappings of both the Jewish Heirarchy and 'Pagan' ritualism that was outright rejected by Jesus.Bread and wine as stand ins for Blood and flesh. Yes We Sacrificed Christ the 'lamb of God' so we could reap the "benefits".Through this sacrific humanity was washed of it's sins? Are you fucking kidding, His sacrific was OUR sin! It not something to be revered, but shamed.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Peter "The Rock" Posted by: fma7

Comments are closed-

Make the churches pay taxes, THEN give them a voice
Posted by: peterjkraus on Nov 16, 2009 6:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Tax the fuckers who, for 2000 years, have been running the biggest scam the world has ever seen. Tax them or start looking at them with a criminalist's eye.

Either way, they'd start having to toe the line.

Who do they think they are... God?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

The RC Church took 9/11 $$$$
Posted by: weathered on Nov 16, 2009 6:33 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
big time. Its got flushed through Newark 9/11am before they pulled down all 3 bldgs.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: The RC Church took 9/11 $$$$ Posted by: Sister_Lauren

Comments are closed-

Sins of the Church
Posted by: Frankiex on Nov 16, 2009 6:41 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The media still occasionally talk about the pedophile priests. Now that same sex marriage is the issue, I would like to see a report in the media about all the Catholic priests who died of AIDS in the 80s. There were a lot of them, including bishops and above. And obviously they were sexually active homosexuals. Perhaps that would quiet the hierarchy's opposition to gays today.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

THE VATICAN WILL CAUSE CATHOLICISM TO FAIL
Posted by: drricklippin on Nov 16, 2009 7:13 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Unless the current conservative leadership at the Vatican is toppled we will witness the collapse of a huge worldwide religion.

Out of the ashes a new Catholicism will be born.

It will be painful but necessary to witness.

Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton,Pa

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

God Of The World
Posted by: Drafus D. Dragon on Nov 16, 2009 7:17 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
GOD OF THE WORLD

The Roman Catholic Church has always cared more about their God, money and power, than about the suffering of mankind. Their teachings have created it through fear and guilt. Their brutal and bloody history, you'd think, would be enough. It is about control of the masses. It has always been about politics, not about love. It is God in man's image and it is deadly as is evident wherever we look.

I am an artist and writer. I've written extensively about this travesty we call religion on my website: www.saintlysinnersloft.com under the "Manifesto" link.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: God Of nothing Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: God Of The World Posted by: Richardsievert

Comments are closed-

Hypocrisy......
Posted by: Spiritgirl on Nov 16, 2009 7:28 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is a reason that the founders have a separation of Church & State clause, because they knew the abuse and havoc that that would create for the average American! It's really a shame that that is something today's Americans forget to our own peril!

Of course the hypocrisy is astounding on many levels; this is the same church that allowed their sadistic priests to molest children and then covered it up for years, this is the same church that is supposed to be "the final" authority for "morality" and they effectively would blackmail the District's sick and poor because they recognize LBGT people?!?!? WTH! Is that really what they think Jesus would do?

No! The Catholic Church in reality they hate women, period! It's ok with them if women are dirt poor having babies that they can't take care of, but they have a problem with LBGT folk, puhlease!! I think the real problem is that these "men" have never known the love of a woman or a man and are sooo confused and full of "backlog" that they have started hating themselves! How about they allow themselves to get married, at least a spouse would relieve their lonely nights!!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Hypocrisy...... Posted by: fma7
» RE: Hypocrisy...... Posted by: illit

Comments are closed-

Getting health insurance through employers is a screwy system
Posted by: plantland on Nov 16, 2009 7:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article illustrates some of the problems that come about when employers are expected to pay for their workers' health insurance.

In this instance, Catholic Charities resents being dictated to in ways it can't accept- or afford.

What they can spend on services for those they help, like recent immigrants or paying more workers goes down if they have to pay for a package for that worker's family, or to create a family for the worker using expensive IVF procedures and surrogates, etc.

I don't think the Catholic Church should dictate to Congess about abortion, but I am not sure that the Church should have to let the DC Council force them to act against their beliefs either.

I am surprised that they don't seem to discriminate in hiring overall- good for them.
But reader comments made me realize that they are also receiving grants from government, as opposed to simply using the bequests of parishioners for theri social aims. I wish I knew the ratio of what comes from their congregants vs what they compete for in grant money.

Single payer would also help products made in the US compete better with imports, which don't have to add the costs of health insurance as directly to their products.

Making even more employers pay to insure their workers and their families, or pay penalities as both the House and Senate bill would do, is out of synch with the need to create new jobs for our distressed unemployed.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Why the Gay Marriage Message Is Misfiring: Part 1
Posted by: Sister_Lauren on Nov 16, 2009 8:17 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]

Comments are closed-

These men do not act like men of God! Has the Catholic Church been infiltrated over the centuries
Posted by: JohnTruth2001 on Nov 16, 2009 9:21 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
like the U.S. gov't has been???

What happened of the mission to care for the sick & poor? Why does the Vatican hoard the wealth that could feed the planet???

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: No, they were always like this: Posted by: oregoncharles
» Death to the Church! Posted by: and_abottleofrum
» RE: I didn't say that. Posted by: oregoncharles

Comments are closed-

Since When...
Posted by: oregoncharles on Nov 16, 2009 9:43 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
do we let pedophiles dictate policy to the rest of us?

(Quoted from a comment on a previous string - just in case that person doesn't get to it.)

And what makes the Bishops think we've forgotten?

And yes, it's absolutely relevant: it reveals how ruthless and amoral they really are.

The scum also rises.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» These hypocrite Catholic leaders, Posted by: and_abottleofrum

Comments are closed-

makaainana
Posted by: Makaainana on Nov 16, 2009 9:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What would Christ do?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

The Good News:
Posted by: oregoncharles on Nov 16, 2009 9:45 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Catholic Church will no longer be administering social services in D.C., giving them power over the poor there.

The less power they have over people's lives, the better.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

ted
Posted by: tedri50 on Nov 16, 2009 10:23 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the 'church's should lose their tax exemptions - with that money going to the services they now provide [with limitations based on their 'conscience']. this would leave them with one less tool with which to blackmail society.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Secularism
Posted by: bonapartist on Nov 16, 2009 10:33 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is a very simple concept and apparently the one that has a hard time taking root. The basic premises that the church and the state must be separated. Period. At the same time it is often forgotten that the secular state guarantees the freedom of practicing one's religion freely or not practicing at all.

That is when the idea usually breaks down and the whole train of anti Catholicism etc comes out. Scroll the responses even in this forum if you will, very few will denounce all organized religions and fewer still will demand separation of church and state combined with a freedom of worship.

There is an old saying that anti Catholicism is antisemitism for the liberals and thus acceptable. Catholic church, as any other religious group, should have no say in the government whatsoever. Period.

However the moment you start with the reasoning of religion A is worse than religion B and thus religion A should be banned, you are forcing people to take sides.

In a nutshell all religions and creeds should be separated from the state, no exceptions and no special cases. So long as the aim is set at one group (Catholics, Evangelicals, Muslims) the game is lost before it even started.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: AntiCatholic vs. AntiClerical Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: AntiCatholic vs. AntiClerical Posted by: bonapartist

Comments are closed-

Devoid of Moral Authority
Posted by: thornwolf on Nov 16, 2009 11:12 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone can see that the "catholic" church is devoid of moral authority. The mere existence of fancy vestments, gold ornamentation and pricey artworks, all trappings of wealth and power, not to mention sexual abuse and right-wing politics, all speak of a distinctly temporal orientation, not a spiritual one. The church hierarchy amply demonstrate what they stand for. Can you picture Jesus dressed up like the pope? Doesn't that say something?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

tangodaddy
Posted by: tangodaddy on Nov 16, 2009 11:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With the Catholic church and all other churchs obviously lobbying its time to revisit your tax free status

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Catholic Power Priorities: Sex Obsession first, Sick later...
Posted by: spbreathnach on Nov 16, 2009 11:17 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Without sounding paternalistic, it is truly gratifying to see more Americans turn their critical attention on the role of the Catholic Church in every aspect of their governmental institutions. The RCC has a controlling interest in most of those countries in which it allows its Jesuits free reign. These states are all 'Papal States' in the old sense of that word.

Ireland, Poland, the Phillipines are all Papal States,and in each of them the entire secular project of production is adumbrated. Not only do these countries try to survive on the most medieval notions, but they surrender their entire intellectual motor force to a pathetics cabal of ignorant celibates, most die-hard Jesuits who exhibit a spurious sense of secular knowledge and learning. These celibates subvert the machinery of government and , as has been evidenced so often in hisory, are prepared to die rather than share Papal power.

Mexico, Spain, Austria, Italy and Germany are linked together in the production of WW1 and WW2. American only comes into its own with these wars and the infiltration of American politics by Catholic 'universities'. Since WW11, India, America and South America have been closely brought into alignment by a concerted universal church, which really does not mind war, if only they can direct the where, the when and the why of it. Its secret missions, hidden invariably behind 'charitable projects', is becoming farcical.

Secular authorities , in my opinion, have no real idea of the dedication of these celibates to acquiring world domination. Government after government gives way, at first to charitable projects, then legislative and educaitonal programmes. Thereafter, piecemeal party-systems are afraid of the homogeneous strength and international terror of the Roman Church.

The current rumble concerning the emphasis on fertility and sexual control by the RCC in preference to helping the poor and the infirm is only one rumble among thousands of other such conflicts that reveal the real nature of the Roman church around the world -- all of which conflicts are led and instigated by the smallest of states, the Vatican, controlled by one man, a Pharaoh and Vicar to the memory of Titus Caesar, a little Italian tyrant.

Can secular America -- even to the memory of Vietnam and such places -- do nothing to stem the tide of this universally unhealthy subversive...???


Seamus Breathnach

www.irish-criminology.com

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Hell, They Chose Abortion Over The Iraq War
Posted by: rgoalierob on Nov 16, 2009 11:39 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a recovering Catholic, that proved to me that they were in bed with the GOP. They'd rather oppress women than do something about poverty and needless war, in spite of Pope John Paul II's protestations.
The American Catholic Church is pointless.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Jew Rabbis Put Obsession With Killing Muslims Ahead Loving their Neighbors
Posted by: barefeet on Nov 16, 2009 12:09 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
America and Alternet is populated with One-Eyed Jacks. You can all kiss my ass.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Please don't say Catholic Bishops. Say "American Bishops"
Posted by: ais1956 on Nov 16, 2009 12:11 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a Catholic from India. The behavior of American bishops shocks me. They are right-wing Americans. They are Catholic only in name. They have supported racism; they have actively supported the imperialist policies of the Bush administration; even though Pope John Paul II said: "a war in Iraq would be a defeat for humanity".
It seems to me that American Bishops are not satisfied with allowing their priests to bugger boys and get away with it. Now they want to do the same thing to the entire country.
I am an American citizen now. The greatest thing about this country's foundation is the separation of Church and State.
NO AMERICAN should tolerate political interfearance by clergy - of any religion.
The founding fathers setup a wall of separation between church and state because they wanted to protect the church. History shows that whenever clergy have political power, it corrupts the church. This has happened to all religions not just Christianity.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Edd Doerr
Posted by: EddDoerr on Nov 16, 2009 2:02 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Readers of this piece and its commentators would find interesting the new book "The Purple Culture", by Stephen Boehrer (2009). Boehrer, a former priest and diocesan chancellor, neatly describes in this short, readable novel the "purple culture" and "malignant narcissism" of all too many top Catholic Church leaders now and over the centuries. Unfortunately, too many non-Catholic politicians and pundits have a higher regard for, or fear of, the church hierarchy than the average Catholic. As several comments have noted, our country really needs to take the constitutional principle of separation of church and state seriously. We should note that two thirds of Catholic Democrats in the House voted against the anti-choice Stupak/Pitts amendment, as did 16 out of 18 Catholic women members of the House. -- Edd Doerr, Pres., Americans for Religious Liberty, www.arlinc.org

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

good - let 'em all go away
Posted by: illit on Nov 16, 2009 2:24 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
all religious institutions in this country have too much power/authority AND to top it off we all have to subsidize them via their tax-exempt status.

The only way for religions to freely vent their spleen is to be NON tax supported.

Send a nice fat tax bill to the Catholic/Baptist/christian/Mormon/Jewish/Islamic/ad nauseam places of worship and the rest of us can get on with our lives with decent health care and who cares who marries who(M?)

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

All The Government Has To Do Is Remind Them They Get Tax Dollars For Social Programs
Posted by: desidid on Nov 16, 2009 2:41 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
then cut them off. That would teach any one who forgets that their money is provided by Americans who don't share their political, religious, or social point of view. And then take their tax exemption from them too.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Catholic Bishops
Posted by: frank69 on Nov 16, 2009 4:16 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Catholic Bishops' hypocrisy knows no bounds. The coverup of sexual crimes is absolutely disgusting and criminal. Consequently, I for one, feel the Catholic Church left me, rather than the other way around.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Catholic Cult
Posted by: jwbeeno on Nov 16, 2009 4:54 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
LOL, is anyone surprised by this? If it involves little boys and/or sex, rest assured its a priority with them. I am not sure which is the biggest cult, the Catholics or the Scientologists.

Hess
Online Privacy when it Counts

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Ice in their veins
Posted by: PaulK on Nov 16, 2009 5:27 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
On the order of 100,000 children and adults in the U.S. will die each year that we don't have national health care. I can't imagine anyone holding this program for ransom.

People will die if they aren't fed. I can't imagine anyone holding this program for ransom.

I have a sense that "Christianity" isn't primarily about wielding raw, naked political power in a high stakes poker game. Blessed are those with ice in their veins? Which Jesus of Nazareth is that?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Until
Posted by: JefffromCA on Nov 16, 2009 6:37 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
they stop fu*king altar boys or aiding and abetting the pedophile priests they have no credibility.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Make the Catholic Church pay taxes
Posted by: Jersey Devil on Nov 16, 2009 8:52 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
OK, so the Roman Catholic Church is no longer a faith-based organization but a PAC - strip them of their tax exempt status on income and property taxes.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

http://www.ebuyings.com
Posted by: jacklang0001 on Nov 17, 2009 5:52 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.ebuyings.com
have some cheap things ...
nike shoes, fashion clothes ;brand handbags ,wallet ...
free shipping
competitive price
any size available
accept the paypal

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

It should be pretty evident by now that the Catholic Church...
Posted by: ShrubtheWarcriminal on Nov 17, 2009 8:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...is the most evil, genocidal religion to ever exist.

Just take one particular time in history.

J. M. Robertson has estimated that from the first crusade launched by Pope Urban II in 1095 to the fall of Acre in 1291, nine million lives were lost.

This may be an overestimation, but the number is certainly in the millions and represents only the beginning of the carnage which places the Catholic Church in the same league with the Third Reich and the purges of Stalin or Mao.

Before the crusades against the 'heathens' were concluded, the popes began an internal crusade against heretics within Christendom. The resulting Inquisition lasted officially almost 600 years and resulted in the loss of additional millions of lives.

As a recovering Catholic, there is little doubt in my mind that if given the chance, the present Nazi pope would repeat this event.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

makaainana
Posted by: Makaainana on Nov 18, 2009 9:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Catholic Priests and their protectors have been putting sex ahead of their own salvation for years.
So its no surprise they are putting sex ahead of the needs of the poor.

They need to stop making judgments on society and teach us and themselves to simply ask, "What would Christ do?"

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

Bill Keenan
Posted by: unionyes on Nov 21, 2009 6:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a lifelong Catholic and one time Altar-boy, I'm saddened and ashamed that the Catholic Church continues to care only about the unborn at the cost of all other critical issues that effect those that have already been brought into this world. They supported Bush over Kerry (remember their refusal to serve Kerry communion at the height of his campaign)despite Bush's neanderthal positions on the poor, torture, war, labor union's, civil rights etc., then repeated with McCain. Thank God the Catholic faithful didn't listen and voted for Obama. Now they're willing to throw away health care for millions and millions of Americans due to their obsession with the unborn. They continue to maintain their zealot position and to hell with the consequences. We must all recognize and respect the right to maintain our own beliefs on the abortion issue but let's not destroy the fabric of our society and punish those who don't follow the churches dogma.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]


Comments are closed-

nice
Posted by: Serenalin on Dec 4, 2009 11:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We meet in the night in the Spanish cafe , we give a hug for each other with pleasure, at that moment, how i wish come with U and stay with U forever, NFL JERSEYS
football jersey
NFL

this is forever!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

 
Advertisement
From The Blog
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Most Read
Most Emailed
Most Discussed
On REDDIT
On DIGG
 
loading ...
POWERED BY DIGG'S USERS