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9 Silly Things People Say When They Hear You Don't Want Kids (And Ways to Counter Them)
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It's been about five years since anyone asked me, "Why don't you have kids?"
"Just lucky, I guess," was my response then (it was a kid who asked me), and my friends and colleagues just know it's a non-issue, like you wouldn't ask Woody Allen if he'd like to go camping.
The subject has been in my thoughts, though, ever since I realized that I'm about to turn 45, which means that not being a celebrity, my chances of reproducing are now Olsen-twin thin. The realization that my fertility was a closed issue made me feel a bit like I did when they retired the Concorde: It wasn't likely I'd ever use it, but it was nice to know it was there.
Now if this were a movie, this would fling me into crisis mode -- I imagine Sandra Bullock having a comical panic attack, to bouncy-but-urgent music, and hatching a crazy plan to go the turkey-baster route with her gay BFF (played by Matt Damon). Of course, there would be happy endings all around, including an infant so cute she would make a basket of kittens look like Keith Richards.
But I didn't panic. I felt relieved and actually enjoy my friends' kids more now that the threat of motherhood had passed. I had occasional baby cravings in my 20s and 30s but curbed them like you would a yen for chocolate or cigarettes.
I never wanted kids the way some women do and I decided I wouldn't have one unless I got really rich, and since I didn't, I didn't.
Money plays a part in a lot of women's decisions. The U.S. birth rate recently dropped by 2 percent, Time magazine says, possibly because women are worried about having kids in this economy; it costs about $221,000 to raise one for 17 years (sadly, though, the story says, the economy is also making some of them skimp on contraception).
So, done. Curtain. And now a moment to stretch my legs before starting the last act.
Wanting kids isn't just the social norm, it's said to be a biological imperative, the only supposed "duh" of evolution, so I know my lack of sentiment isn't especially mainstream. I listen to people rhapsodize about parenthood, that it's so fulfilling and the greatest job in the world and good for them -- the more happiness in the world, the better.
Then I see parents at Target -- with one kid screaming in the cart, one screaming in their arms -- looking as blissful as a cat in a dryer. And I remember to take my pill.
Maybe because I was raised in the '70s heyday of feminism, or maybe ambivalence toward breeding is innate (Madelyn Cain's 2001 book The Childless Revolution: What It Means to be Childless Today, touches on the Mest gene in mice, which seemed to determine their levels of maternal behavior), but I never felt fazed by social pressure in my decision.
Now, in the interest of people who are made to feel defensive about their choice to be childless, and those who put them there, here are "Nine Things People Say When They Hear You Don't Want Kids" (and ways I've found to counter them).
1. Aren't you worried about ending up old and lonely?
No. When Mel Brooks, playing the 2,000-year-old man, joked that "I have over 1,500 children and not one comes to visit me on a Sunday," he had a point: There's no guarantee that kids will be there for you in your old age. Plus, the University of Florida has shown that the idea of the lonely, childless senior is flat not true.
University of Florida sociology professor Tanya Koropeckyj-Cox's 2003 study concluded that there's no higher rate of depression or loneliness among childless seniors. Of the 3,800 people between the ages of 50 and 84 who were surveyed about loneliness, responses didn't vary much between those who had kids and those who didn't. According to the University of Florida report:
"One reason is that some people without children are able to maintain social ties throughout their lives that may substitute for what children would have given them, Koropeckyj-Cox said. They may do this with friends, work relationships or the younger generation, she said."
As for those seniors who did have kids, it was how well they got along that mattered, not just the fact that they were family.
2. "But you'd have such great kids!"
Thanks! But that's what everyone thinks! You know damn well they're not all right!
3. "But you'd be such a great mom!"
That's nice, dear ... have a cookie. While some people simply adore kids, others of us are better at providing wise Mrs. Garrett-style comfort. If you're a good listener, there are already plenty of kids and adults who could use your empathy.
"It's a completely overused sentiment, but it takes a village," says Jenn Cole, a self-employed graphic designer from San Francisco, who can't wait to give her support as the "cool auntie" but has no interest in being Mom.
"In this increasingly complex world, kids need lots of adults in their lives. This used to be covered through extended-family networks and close-knit communities," she writes in an e-mail, adding that she cherished the outside influences of teachers, neighbors and mentors. "I will never forget the ballet teacher that helped me find my own beauty in movement, or the English teacher who got me deeply into literature, or the religion teacher who subtly echoed my questioning, or the old lady up the street who taught me to bake cookies and was so different from my mean and bitter grandmother. I can't wait to be these things to my friends' kids," she says.
Indeed, what would any of our parents have done without outside support?
4. Don't you want a family?
I was raised in a family. That was plenty.
Seriously, some people just don't function well in traditional families, which are like albums -- there are only two tracks you like, but you have to buy the whole damn record. Some of us just work better a la carte.
5. "But they're so cute!"
This is a topping good reason to buy a Hello Kitty "vibrator," but to bring a whole new person into existence?
"Ten years ago, I did this children's festival," says a close friend who is a parent and a teacher, "and there were these vendors, and on this one tote bag there was a poem about the beauty and innocence of children and how wonderful the world was because of children. I said to her 'You don't have kids, do you?' And she said 'No, but I really want them.'
"One of the pluses of not having children is being able to maintain this idealism that human beings are innocent."
This woman is as good with kids as anyone you'll ever meet, but not because they're angels.
"I love kids, but not because they're nice," she says, adding that they're actually downright mean at times. "Don't have a kid thinking they're going to make you feel better about yourself.
"They're more real. They haven't built up the bullshit meter yet, so you know where you're coming from all the time."
She loves them, she says, because they're people, and she loves people.
And they're their own people. Don't have a kid if what you want is a Mini-Me.
"When we have a kid, there's the idea that somehow ... they're going to represent us in the world, and they're going to love us unconditionally ... that's the reason people have kids. If you knew the moment you had them you had to let them go, who would have kids?"
6. "But it's natural."
It's amazing how selective our society is about the "natural" things we promote versus the ones we scowl at. Nudity is natural -- and banned. Hunting is certainly more natural than shopping, but most people wouldn't kill a pig to get a Baconator.
7. "It's a woman's greatest achievement."
Producing a spin-off could well be the greatest achievement of a lot of people, but just because your contributions don't get diaper rash doesn't mean you haven't made any.
Some notable childless achievers: Jesus Christ, Julia Child, Oprah Winfrey, George Washington, Amelia Earhart, Rock Hudson, George Clooney, the Dalai Lama, Dr. Seuss, Margaret Mitchell, Katharine Hepburn, Jay Leno and Helen Mirren. Mirren was traumatized by an educational film on childbirth as a teen, saying (quoted here in Marie Claire): "I haven't had children, and now I can't look at anything to do with childbirth. It absolutely disgusts me."
8. "You'll change your mind."
Now that I'm old, no one can say this to me anymore, but if anyone says it to you, Grasshopper, just return their condescending smile and say that one day they'll change their mind about their partner, career choice, spiritual predilections or any other extraordinarily personal element of their lives. See how they like it.
9. "You should have at least one of your own."
This is one of my favorites, as though kids were canapés or raffle tickets that would be gone by the time the party is over instead of people who require care, feeding and lots and lots of things.
"When I see babies, not only do I see the beauty, joy and miracle of life, I also see nappies, landfill waste, vast amounts of food and money needed, and a very shaky, unpredictable future," Joanna Benn wrote for the BBC Science & Environment blog when she was an independent on the whys and whethers of having kids. She now works for the United Nations Environmental Program, but gave permission to quote her past work, where she also noted the U.N. projections that "the world population will nearly stabilize at just above 10 billion people after 2200."
Overpopulation is the greatest threat to our environment, according to a recent survey of professors at State University of New York College of Environmental Science and Forestry. In a story in Science Daily, systems ecologist Charles Hall called it "the only problem."
A study by Oregon State University says that the carbon imprint of child born in the U.S. now is 20 times as important as the other eco-savvy measures a parent might take, like recycling or driving a hybrid vehicle (the carbon emissions in America, with our consumer-based lifestyle and longer life spans, is higher than in many other countries).
The choice of whether to have kids is such an intensely personal one that it seems weirdly disproportionate to literally put the weight of the world on one's shoulders when considering it; it's at least self-satisfying to know that my choice was a green one, albeit by accident.
Finally, it's less what we do to the world as what the world is capable of doing to us that also made me leery of bringing anyone into a place this tough. You have to be an optimist to have kids, and I'm more your neurotic emotional claustrophobe. At least I know it; I also know, unshakably, that I made the right choice.
And choice is what it comes down to in the end -- a simple to each his own, without either side passing judgment on the other for the most important and personal decision of all.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: messedup on Nov 10, 2009 12:26 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: This is what I tell people.
Posted by: jaded
» What a strange pair of signatures!
Posted by: letrightbedone
» RE: What a strange pair of signatures!
Posted by: jaded
» Sorry, 'jaded'
Posted by: letrightbedone
» No, it is not...
Posted by: zigy
» RE: No, it is not...
Posted by: jaded
» RE: This is what I tell people.
Posted by: osd
» RE: This is what I tell people.
Posted by: jaded
» RE: This is what I tell people.
Posted by: xennonette
» Childless is not in my vocabulary....
Posted by: Beepath
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Posted by: Terrintokyo on Nov 10, 2009 1:17 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's a relief that, as I work through my own long list of middle-aged growing pains that there is no one depending on me to the point that if I don't eat, they don't.
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Posted by: geometeer on Nov 10, 2009 1:40 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here in India, people do like them: they carry them joyfully (and the bigger ones carry the little ones), and smile when they see them pull my snowy beard. Those children do not scream all the time in supermarkets or even airplanes, because they are among friends.
I don't regret not breeding, as it has taken me those decades to learn to like them, and be a surrogate grandfather. I'd have been a rotten dad.
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» Very insightful thought.
Posted by: zigy
» fantastic comment , so incredibly truthful
Posted by: sirios
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Posted by: batmagoo on Nov 10, 2009 1:41 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As I took-out the trash a few days ago, failing to separate the recyclables - as I do - I was nearly assaulted by a mother of many who pointed-out that "I was part of the problem." I kindly explained to her that no matter how much I pollute, and jet-set across the planet, I will never rival with the exponential carbon-footprint holocaust that her progeny is generating ad-infinitum - and that SHE, not I, was the real problem.
It may not have fixed anything, but it did shut her up.
This article by Liz Langley discusses a woman's perspective on the matter, and I can assure you that men are equal targets of similar comments from their peer groups.
Another retort to the usual silly inquiries might include: "Oh, I would like a family, and people around in my house when I am old, but it turns out that having children doesn't guarantee that the family will hold, or that I will even still have a house by the time things break-apart -- to say nothing of when I am old..."
I dare them to challenge that!
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» RE: A masculine perspective.
Posted by: ginny
» RE: A masculine perspective.
Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» I greatly admire your outlook...
Posted by: zigy
» You definitely need help …
Posted by: DJC11
» RE: A masculine perspective.
Posted by: jaded
» consumption, not overpopulation...
Posted by: undrgrndgirl
» You are an American patriot; she is a slave enabler.
Posted by: eddie torres
» RE: A masculine perspective.
Posted by: YogiBear
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Posted by: bookmonger on Nov 10, 2009 2:04 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You cannot miss a thing that you never wanted.
Upon reflection the whole Leave It To Beaver/Father Knows Best thing, for me personally, turns my stomach.
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» Kudos to you...
Posted by: zigy
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Posted by: philprism on Nov 10, 2009 2:07 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So some simple conclusions I have reached I would like to share:
If you don't want to make babies go in peace. Bonk with protection, masturbate in harmony and dedication. You babies will not be born as you wish, Your genetic identity will play no part in the future of the human race.
If you want a baby and can't have one, may god have mercy on your soul in this life.
For those that want a baby and go ahead and do it; Enjoy the sex, your partner and your babies. Love a lot, often and smile.
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» Churchy & Trite
Posted by: terradea42
» In your scenario...God's not very merciful
Posted by: moloko velocet
» RE: To Breed Or Not To Breed That is the Question
Posted by: Feltixx
» We ALL play a part in evolution, we are ALL related!!!
Posted by: greentime
» RE: To Breed Or Not To Breed That is the Question
Posted by: amandalynne
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Posted by: X-POLYGAMIST WIFE on Nov 10, 2009 2:16 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
BANKING ON HEAVEN . COM
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Posted by: maxfrisson on Nov 10, 2009 4:33 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I meet guys who seem to think it's a necessary fulfillment of something. I can honestly say that never, ever, in any way, shape, or form has the idea so much as crossed my mind that I might want to be a slave to a child for a sentence of two decades.
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» RE: I've heard them all
Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» RE: I've heard them all
Posted by: weenie
» Sadly, that 512 is probably only worth $135,000 today.
Posted by: eddie torres
» 2 decades my ass try For EVER
Posted by: Hiroak
» I share your sentiments exactly.
Posted by: zigy
» RE: I've heard them all
Posted by: mimsi
» RE: I've heard them all
Posted by: weenie
» RE: I've heard them all
Posted by: Cooltruth
» uh...daycare alone can cost $9000.00 annually !
Posted by: undrgrndgirl
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Posted by: Toby on Nov 10, 2009 5:04 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» you miss the point..
Posted by: zipper696
» RE: you miss the point..
Posted by: jaded
» RE: you miss the point..
Posted by: Just Danj
» RE: you miss the point..
Posted by: Just Danj
» RE: kids
Posted by: dirtyspeed
» They are selfish and know it....
Posted by: Jethro2112
» They do know it?
Posted by: dirtyspeed
» RE: They do know it?
Posted by: jroth420
» RE: They do know it?
Posted by: NoKidding
» RE: They do know it?
Posted by: dirtyspeed
» RE: They are selfish and know it....
Posted by: mimsi
» Oh yeah, there's no selfish parents, uh huh......
Posted by: colocha
» RE: kids
Posted by: waltermoss
» RE: kids
Posted by: 3leggeddub
» RE: kids
Posted by: dirtyspeed
» You have a point...
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: kids
Posted by: Vik
» RE: kids
Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» Up is down. Greed is love. Slavery is generosity.
Posted by: eddie torres
» RE: Up is down. Greed is love. Slavery is generosity.
Posted by: Toby
» RE: Up is down. Greed is love. Slavery is generosity.
Posted by: PopRox80
» RE: kids
Posted by: Naumadd
» thank you for adopting and not breeding.
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
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Posted by: yogachick on Nov 10, 2009 5:08 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Loved this
Posted by: jroth420
» A cult that you can never escape...
Posted by: eddie torres
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Posted by: Eric.Arthur.Blair on Nov 10, 2009 5:16 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It turned out to be a good thing. My wife died shortly before what would have been our fifth anniversary. Had we reproduced, there would be a child now entering adolescence, who would barely remember a mother, and who has a single father on disability unable to afford what it takes to raise a child. We married later in life than usual, and I have friends who are younger than me with grandchildren. I shudder to think of the struggles of dealing with a teenager at this time of my life, and am grateful that it didn't happen.
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» RE: My Late Wife And I Never Wanted 'Em
Posted by: NoKidding
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Posted by: exvagabond on Nov 10, 2009 5:45 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Too many people can multiply, but they can't add.
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» RE: Since I don't have kids,
Posted by: nen
» RE: Since I don't have kids,
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
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Posted by: moloko velocet on Nov 10, 2009 5:49 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The problem in this country is that the vast majority fall victim to the "9 silly things". There are plenty of children needing adoption.
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» however..
Posted by: zipper696
» RE: however..
Posted by: Jethro2112
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Posted by: souffrantfleur on Nov 10, 2009 5:51 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And if we do happen to figure out how to fix this giant mess, I'll be pleased that I helped lower the population.
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» Don't worry, it'll all be sorted out when the Sun goes red giant
Posted by: eddie torres
» Good point, if you would love your child why bring them in to this wicked world...
Posted by: zigy
» That's the same line I used to use.
Posted by: messedup
» RE: Kids born today will likely witness the collapse of civilization
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
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Posted by: ProgressiveManiac on Nov 10, 2009 5:56 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Still, there is something very appealing about children growing up in a healthy home environment. It is quite understandable that people should want to have children.
On the other hand, the social pressure on people who don't want children to nevertheless have them is confounding. More children is not what this world is crying out for and more children in unhappy homes is certainly not what is needed.
Anyone who feels it important to pressure someone to have children should ask themselves what kind of home such children are apt to have and how loving that parent is apt to be when that parent never really wanted to have children.
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Posted by: waltermoss on Nov 10, 2009 6:22 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. I'm selfish and I hate kids.
2. I'm slutty and want you to acknowledge me.
3. Christians are Idiots.
4. Right wingers are r-tards.
5. Substance X will kill you.
6. Marijuana is good for treating ailment X.
7. Cheating is better than monogamy.
It's gotten to the point where I just read the title and diagonally scan the text for key words. The rare gems of really interesting articles are getting even rarer. Oh well.
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» Obviously you would prefer...
Posted by: zipper696
» I didn't jump to that conclusion
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
» 8. You're destroying the planet if you eat X.
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
» RE: 8. You're destroying the planet if you eat X.
Posted by: waltermoss
» RE: Alternet keep publishing the same article over and over again
Posted by: MilesGregarius
» RE: Alternet keep publishing the same article over and over again
Posted by: MilesGregarius
» RE: Alternet keep publishing the same article over and over again
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
» C'mon. You know you love template #10.
Posted by: eddie torres
» RE: Alternet keep publishing the same article over and over again
Posted by: Archie1954
» And don't forget....
Posted by: moloko velocet
» True in some cases
Posted by: Robba29
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Posted by: MartianBachelor on Nov 10, 2009 6:33 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe it's because I live in a very "red" part of the country, and everyone else is too busy and wrapped up in being religious and having their own (large) families and carting them around in their infernal minivans and monster SUV's to notice or bother.
I don't know, but if they view me as some sort of anomaly they don't ever say anything. Maybe they feel they're more than doing their fair share, so they can tolerate the occasional nonconformist "slacker" (breeding-wise) like me.
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» But you know..
Posted by: zipper696
» Quiver full don'tyou know..
Posted by: Hiroak
» did you watch the film "Idiocracy?"
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» Sign @ Tea Bagger rally: "Neuter Liberals, Not Dogs!"
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
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Posted by: Spiritgirl on Nov 10, 2009 6:38 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Frankly, I'm appalled, by those comments from a few that call childless people selfish. Frankly, they aren't supporting you or the progeny they want you to have! More importantly - those are probably the very people that shouldn't be having kids (think Geoffry Dalhmer) because we see how they turn out!
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» Did you really just correlate
Posted by: Robba29
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Posted by: praedor on Nov 10, 2009 6:59 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Will you have my baby? Oh...uh...oops? Nevermind.
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Posted by: dirtyspeed on Nov 10, 2009 7:11 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: I think you've been misinformed.
Posted by: waltermoss
» RE: I think you've been misinformed.
Posted by: Naumadd
» RE: I think you've been misinformed.
Posted by: Robba29
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Posted by: ProfBob on Nov 10, 2009 7:21 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would also suggest the web sites of Dr. Jack Westman, M.D. a child psychiatrist and Professor Hugh LaFollette, a philosophy professor. Both are found by Googling 'licensing parents'.
It seems that with the world's overpopulation and the increasing lifespans both responsible for global warming, poverty, illegal immigration, and much more--we might give the child who are to be born a chance to fulfill their potentials and live happy and fruitful lives. Too many of the planet's infants don't have such a chance.
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» But who hands out the licences?
Posted by: colinmeister
» The billionaires. They hand out everything.
Posted by: eddie torres
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Posted by: vyckie on Nov 10, 2009 7:24 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Christian fundamentalism told me that as a woman, I could never really be fulfilled unless I embraced my "true calling" ~ that of motherhood.
I do not regret having seven children ~ each one is a unique and wonderful individual. But I am actually fairly pissed about the strict fundamentalist "biblical family" teachings which I believed so wholeheartedly that I was willing to risk my life to fulfill.
I'm writing about my journey into the most severe fundamentalist "Quiverfull" lifestyle ~ and how my daughter's attempted suicide forced me to wake up and rethink it all. I am no longer submitting my womb for God's purposes ~ I am no longer ordering my life according to the sacred text of an ancient patriarchal society ~ I am No Longer Quivering.
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» RE: I never wanted any kids ~ but today I'm the mother of seven
Posted by: LightningJoe
» RE: I never wanted any kids ~ but today I'm the mother of seven
Posted by: Naumadd
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Posted by: NoKidding on Nov 10, 2009 7:29 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Childfree and happy!
Posted by: Sushi
» RE: Childfree and happy!
Posted by: NoKidding
» RE: Childfree and happy!
Posted by: flirt
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Posted by: Todd on Nov 10, 2009 7:53 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mr. Hall is correct. It took 100,000 years for modern humans to reach a population of 1.6 billion in 1900. It took just over 100 years to more than quadruple that number to 6.7 billion.
Faced with these facts, one has to question: Of what value to the earth is a breeding heterosexual human couple? Biologically speaking, one could argue that the partial extinction of 6 billion humans could only be a benefit.
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» RE: The Most Important Paragraph in the Whole Piece:
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» RE: The Most Important Paragraph in the Whole Piece:
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» RE: The Most Important Paragraph in the Whole Piece:
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» RE: The Most Important Paragraph in the Whole Piece:
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Posted by: TimV on Nov 10, 2009 8:05 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Volunatry childlessness is instead a miscalculation of the needs of oneself and/or others, unless there are overriding reasons not to have kids. Obviously, childless people can serve humanity in ways other than child-rearing.
Since children are generally a great benefit to their parents, there is no reason to down childless people (and I don't think any negativity should be aimed at "Octomom" either.) Here are some answers to some chiding I received over not having kids:
When someone asked "didn't you want to have kids" I said "That's one possible explanation among other possible explanations."
A parent once said "you're lucky" for not having kids, so I said "you don't really mean that, do you?"
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» RE: Happy IN SPITE OF not having kids
Posted by: jroth420
» RE: Happy IN SPITE OF not having kids - not quite
Posted by: teddy
» RE: Happy IN SPITE OF not having kids - not quite
Posted by: TimV
» A great benefit? Show me the money.
Posted by: eddie torres
» RE: A great benefit? Show me the money.
Posted by: Toby
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Posted by: sherry on Nov 10, 2009 8:06 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've made some other decisions that have not worked out so well, including marriage to a man who by no stretch of the imagination would have made a good father. Childbearing requires a courage, an ego that one's genetic material is worth replicating, or a blind eye to the realities of life today that I didn't have. About once a week I get this strange dread, as though I've escaped something that would have destroyed me. Not having children takes work and mindfulness ---- I have several friends with grown children (who even past the age of 40 are way too dependent on Mama) who tell me frankly they wish they had made my choice. Ironically, I happen to know they made no choice ---- they found themselves pregnant and went along for the ride.
Sorry to bring up a sore topic, but behind the questions about why I haven't had children is sometimes more than a hint of racism or elitism----mentions of our browning population or the weakening gene pool (sick stuff). My former sister-in-law, like the former Quiverfull, above, fell complete victim of that attitude in one of the right-wing neo-Nazi churches in Missouri. She was expected to produce Aryans on demand ---- followed by refusal of any medical attention for the kids or public education. They lived in poverty and abuse ---- after my divorce I didn't find out if she ever escaped.
So my answer to "why didn't you have children" is "I worked hard at it."
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Posted by: CorineJ on Nov 10, 2009 8:11 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Ontic on Nov 10, 2009 8:16 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Newsflash: EVERYONE GETS JUDGED BY OTHERS !!!
Fat, thin, skin tone, illness, disability, hair color/style, dietary choices/restrictions, clothing, job, political beliefs, religious beliefs, age, the car you drive, too many kids, not enough kids, how you are raising your kids, pets, how you are raising your pets, hobbies, sexual orientation, vocabulary, carbon foot print, the stores you shop at, the list is endless people.
Clearly the empathy aspect of the evolution of our species is still in the infancy stage.
May I suggest an article of why people judge?
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» RE: Just more proof that human beings say & do stupid things.....
Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» RE: Just more proof that human beings say & do stupid things.....
Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
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Posted by: QQOblivion on Nov 10, 2009 8:17 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why I don't want to have kids (I was just thinking about this yesterday):
1) I'm ugly.
2) I am crazy.
3) I don't have a job.
4) I have a dirty house.
5) I would fear, to the point of insanity, my kids getting sick or killed.
6) I don't want to pass on my genes.
7) I don't want to contribute to overpopulation or climate-change.
8) I prefer to contribute to the world in other ways.
9) I can't get a date, let alone married.
And since I am not exactly a party-animal, I find claims that childless-people (including me) are "selfish" to be absolutely ludicrous. Maybe people who HAVE kids (without adopting) are the truly selfish ones (if anyone is selfish because of their views on having kids, anyway)!
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» 3 more
Posted by: QQOblivion
» You too can secretly be... Penn Jillette!
Posted by: eddie torres
» The Number One Reason I Don't Want Kids
Posted by: MJ Fields
» You forgot 10)
Posted by: zigy
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Posted by: dirtyspeed on Nov 10, 2009 8:33 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you don't make babies, others will.
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» RE: Idiocracy
Posted by: teddy
» RE: Idiocracy
Posted by: liz-at-blackrose
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Posted by: dawnsutro@hotmail.com on Nov 10, 2009 9:00 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Sad
Posted by: CorineJ
» RE: Sad
Posted by: Outsidetheboxlookingin
» RE: Sad
Posted by: tvaspen
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Posted by: Archie1954 on Nov 10, 2009 9:06 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: exileinla on Nov 10, 2009 9:13 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am 33.5 and love children but feel that it is a bigger decision to decide to have children yourself than not to have children. I recently made the decision that I would rather go back to school to get a professional degree in healthcare, leading to a less stressful lifestyle and better career security with benefits, maternity leave and vacation time than give in to the clock and have kids now while my husband and I struggle to keep our small business going in this economy.
If I lived in a Scandanavian country where all kids get healthcare and a great education from nursery school on plus great maternity leave and other government support, I would have without a doubt have had kids by now. These days the stakes the stakes in the US are really high. If you are unlucky and you get sick or lose your job there is no safety net. You face the real risk of homelessness and bankruptcy, and your kids are fodder for the prison / military industrial complex. Once you have kids you have a lot less options when it comes to navigating our dangerous world.
I know that by choosing to go back to school before having children I might not be able to have children ever. I am just trying to play the best game with the hand I have been dealt.
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Posted by: jaded on Nov 10, 2009 9:21 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: xcellent choice
Posted by: Outsidetheboxlookingin
» RE: xcellent choice
Posted by: jaded
» you can keep the backhanded compliments
Posted by: inverse_agonist
» RE: you can keep the backhanded compliments
Posted by: jaded
» RE: you can keep the backhanded compliments
Posted by: PopRox80
» It's the inequality... and the Civil War
Posted by: eddie torres
» RE: It's the inequality... and the Civil War
Posted by: liz-at-blackrose
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Posted by: james108 on Nov 10, 2009 9:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
About the only time I would be trying to convince someone of how good a parent they would be is if I think they would be, and they are subtly or not so subtly asking my opinion, by bringing it up themselves.
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» RE: I find completely agree!
Posted by: wwittman
» RE: I find completely agree!
Posted by: katcourt79
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Posted by: mdsfilm on Nov 10, 2009 10:29 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: linecrosser on Nov 10, 2009 12:02 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Idiot!! Third worlders will not STAY that way!
Posted by: Smartcookie
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Nov 10, 2009 12:46 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: "MIND YOUR OWN BUSNINESS"
Posted by: Basenjis
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Posted by: willymack on Nov 10, 2009 12:56 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In this country there are those who, in my opinion, shouldn't reproduce at all. Ever.
Of course, those people have way more kids than the rest, and those kids will grow up to be just as stupid, ignorant, hateful and intolerant as their parents.
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» RE: I can't say much about the rest of the world
Posted by: liz-at-blackrose
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Posted by: Robba29 on Nov 10, 2009 1:00 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: YOU are an example of why I didn't want kids.
Posted by: greentime
» RE: YOU are an example of why I didn't want kids.
Posted by: Robba29
» RE: YOU are an example of why I didn't want kids.
Posted by: PopRox80
» RE: YOU are an example of why I didn't want kids.
Posted by: Robba29
Comments are closed-
Posted by: wireup on Nov 10, 2009 1:26 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Aren't there enough people on the planet already?
Is it even conceivable that our species will die out (given, of course, that we don't do ourselves in) because some of us prefer NOT to have children?
What kind of fuzzy mindless thinking is this anyway?
According to dictionary.com, one of the definitions for selfishness is:
"self-interested, self-seeking, egoistic; illiberal, parsimonious, stingy."
What is the desire to perpetuate one's self if not SELF-INTERESTED, SELF-SEEKING, EGOISTIC.
Personally, I have NEVER regretted not having children. Given what's going on now in this world, I think that NOT having children was the sanest possible decision. If you truly love your children, why would you want to subject them to the possibility of their demise in their lifetime due to lack of food or water or the very real possibility of an end to life on earth because of climate change. Is this how you love your children?
And, please, save the crap about being alone when you're older. This is NO reason to have children!!!
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» RE: Who is really the selfish one here?
Posted by: Ontic
» RE: Who is really the selfish one here?
Posted by: Robba29
» RE: Thank you wireup for "Who is really the selfish one here?"
Posted by: greentime
» I called you selfish
Posted by: Robba29
» Oh, and on the "NO reason to have children" bit
Posted by: Robba29
» RE: Go Robba!
Posted by: Ontic
» RE: Oh, and on the "NO reason to have children" bit
Posted by: wireup
» RE: Oh, and on the "NO reason to have children" bit
Posted by: Robba29
» RE: Oh, and on the "NO reason to have children" bit
Posted by: wireup
» RE: Oh, and on the "NO reason to have children" bit
Posted by: Robba29
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Kym525 on Nov 10, 2009 1:33 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Are you gonna raise and pay for it for me?"
People should mind their own damn business and do better for the children who are already here (i.e. better health care, education and housing).
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» Well said...
Posted by: zigy
» Love the past, hate the future
Posted by: eddie torres
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Posted by: zigy on Nov 10, 2009 1:48 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It was the acclaimed linguist Steven Pinker who said that (and I paraphrase)from the moment of conception a child is at war with its mother for scarce resources;then once born, that war extends to the mother's attention. Who needs it! I'm an introvert and I fear that if I had one of those fussy, screaming infants I would either loose my mind or...well, enough said.
Anyway, if one really wants to nurture a child (and more power to those who do, you can have it)you can always adopt. Lord knows, there are plenty of unwanted children out there....
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Posted by: stinkypoot on Nov 10, 2009 4:22 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm glad you made the right decision for you and I'm glad you are happy. After all, if there is one thing humanity could stand to do less of, it's breeding! And this country in particular does not need more unwanted children.
To each their own, I say, and with healthy respect.
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Posted by: vertical on Nov 10, 2009 5:49 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Exactly...
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
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Posted by: MJ Fields on Nov 10, 2009 6:26 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: They Think You'll Want Kids Once They Have Kids
Posted by: Archie1954
» RE: They Think You'll Want Kids Once They Have Kids
Posted by: Naumadd
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Posted by: ladyoracle on Nov 10, 2009 9:23 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People often tell me I would be a great mother because I am a good cook and I am a supportive friend, but just because my hypothetical child would be well-fed doesn't mean shit, and I am supportive because I believe the world is a place full of sadness and unfulfilled expectations, disappointment, and violence--therefore I pity all of us humans who are stuck in this existence and work to do what I can to help my peers make the most of it and not get bogged down in the black tar of life. But I certainly would never bring a person into this life and be responsible for subjecting them to sorrow.
Adoption, however, is a fine idea that I might pursue when the time is right. That way I am not responsible for the fact of someone's existence, but I could devote myself to helping them make the best of it.
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» RE: Yes, I am selfish
Posted by: Naumadd
» RE: Yes, I am selfish
Posted by: jaded
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Posted by: 24&somuchmore on Nov 10, 2009 9:52 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Along the way we have helped out a few of them financially and probably will do more for the younger ones.
I think the gene pool is well represented.
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Posted by: Naumadd on Nov 10, 2009 10:58 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As for the rewards of "having one of your own" or of being a parent and having family, there are many great rewards of living from which one can freely choose. Creating a child of your own is only one and, as most parents will tell you, a "mixed bag" as rewards go. There are also many methods in which one can experience and then love or hate the status of "parent" and there are and can be many definitions of "family", most of which have nothing at all to do with having children of your own or having children at all and, arguably, more fulfilling and enduring than the usual one.
True, as I've heard others say - "If everyone thought as you do, the species would die out." Of course, they assume nature gives a damn whether human beings exist or not and assume that the human species MUST exist or else ... or else ... or else ... They never seem to answer that one or answer it with some flowery unsubstantiated diatribe about "an empty soulless universe" blah blah blah. It's no one's particular responsibility to "carry on the species". It either does or it does not and does only because those who wish to breed do and those who don't let the other half do as they like as long as the favor's returned. It's wrong to assume and declare that those who choose NOT to breed contribute nothing genuine to the survival of the species.
Right. You'll never adequately sell that one because it's complete crap ... and you know it.
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Posted by: Bearzerker on Nov 10, 2009 11:16 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
but when a woman is childless its like its un-natural or something...
the world population is near 6 billion with overpopulation causing many of the earths problems...
stay the course dear lass...
your decision to not have children isnt something new...
I applaud your choice but dread the need to articulate it in the media to find peace.
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Posted by: yusandnick on Nov 11, 2009 1:36 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It was pointless twaddle the first time around, and it's even more pointless now. Just like much of the other stuff that keeps repeating and repeating (TV shows are good, meat is poison, etc. etc.).
This site is really turning rancid.
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» and another thing...
Posted by: yusandnick
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Posted by: schubert on Nov 11, 2009 7:29 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: me thinks she doeth protest too much
Posted by: NoKidding
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Posted by: maxsmart on Nov 11, 2009 9:27 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» indeed, it takes a village...
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» The only way I can see this working
Posted by: Kym525
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Posted by: Bob Loblaw on Nov 11, 2009 2:52 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Gosh, guys, thanks. Maybe I'll get there someday.
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Posted by: ML561 on Nov 11, 2009 3:59 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And maybe this is off the topic a little bit, but pregnant women seem to always be getting hassled for one reason or another. When I was pregnant people would criticize me for not eating enough, saying I was starving the baby. (My doctor had recommended several small meals throughout the day to settle my stomach, and my son turned out just fine, thank you.)
Then I got yelled at by a stranger while in a restaurant while I was drinking a nonalcoholic cocktail for "poisoning" my baby. Same thing happened when I went into a convenience store to get cigarettes for my brother. The clerk commenced to lecture me about how smoking was bad for pregnant women. Then there are all kinds of people who feel that they can just come up to you and pat you on the belly. Women are not brood mares!!!!
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Posted by: Minervah on Nov 11, 2009 6:03 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The one that really cracks me up is when parents call me "selfish." There is nothing more selfish than a parents. They have to take care of their progeny no matter what and often do it at the expense of others beginning to creating new carbon footprints with each child to demanding tax breaks, discounts and other miscellaneous perks because they chose to reproduce.
I usually point out to these clueless parents that neither Mother Theresa nor Oprah had/have kids but both contributed greatly to the care of other people's kids. Many teachers, nurses and counselors devote their lives to other people's kids but have none of their own.
Contrary to what these meddlesome people preached, I always believed what I did with my uterus was my business. And I told them so.
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» Oprah/Mother Theresa
Posted by: Robba29
» Dispute Carbon Footprint
Posted by: katcourt79
» RE: Dispute Carbon Footprint
Posted by: Robba29
» RE: Dispute Carbon Footprint
Posted by: katcourt79
» RE: Oprah/Mother Theresa
Posted by: Minervah
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Posted by: sultan on Nov 11, 2009 10:43 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Anderson on Nov 12, 2009 1:28 AM
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Posted by: musher on Nov 12, 2009 2:59 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: musher
Posted by: secondbanana
» RE: musher
Posted by: musher
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Posted by: Greg001 on Nov 12, 2009 9:59 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Sushi on Nov 12, 2009 10:19 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sushi
"A symphony is not played merely to reach its end. "
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Posted by: sirios on Nov 12, 2009 7:21 PM
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Posted by: jvbronke on Nov 13, 2009 2:59 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These questions posed are rather light weight in difficulty when posed by a friend compared to when you are in front of 250 people at a therapeutic weekend and the host asks you one. I had that happen to me at en event called THE LANDMARK FORUM (Used to be EST years ago). I chewed out this person mercilessly for even asking it and informed her I would never come back. I didn't. For people to make serious changes in their lives they have to focus on themselves, which is what the focus of her weekend was supposed to be. Diverting attention away from that to a biological function meant that she really had no real commitment to helping people make those changes. Nor smarts.
The complexity of life and relationships really point to the having of children as something akin to a death wish. Jobs don't last forever, especially ones that pay well and relationships change. Combined with the other life challenges means you are doomed to have one or many of them catch up with you. Just this past weekend I saw a man and a woman (husband and wife) working an intersection in Mishawaka, Indiana with signs for help for their family. I am sure there are millions more in this country in the same boat.
Some men look at the desire to have children as the meal ticket in a relationship to make it happen. So many women want children that if a man says he wants some then she’s on board, in spite of even if he already has ten. Go figure. There are so many brainless people. They will only learn the hard way. I appreciate this article. Hopefully, less people can be viewed as a good thing.
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» RE: Being Childless is being Responsible When You Can't Give Children What They Need
Posted by: Squarehead
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Posted by: soundwonder on Nov 13, 2009 5:51 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe it is the past thing.We should know that the state of existence is reasonable.
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Posted by: 2dogarage on Nov 13, 2009 7:36 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Many people want children so that they can say that they did something important (in lieu of actually doing something truly important) in their lives and then spend the rest of their parenthood abusing their mini-mes who turned out to be just like them.
Unfortunately it is these mindless slackers, slaves to popular propaganda which dictates that we are all supposed to be narcissistic "stand-outs", who are replicating themselves out of control and leaving their NIKE footprints all over the planet.
Having children for some is a way of trying to find meaning in their own inherently small lives. Handed down to them by parents who felt the same way.
I personally would never expose my own flesh and blood to the obvious de-evolution that now spirals out of control on the planet.
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» RE: The problem is..[you are probably just right, 2dogarage.
Posted by: Squarehead
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Posted by: secondbanana on Nov 13, 2009 9:32 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» No one said global warming is all your fault
Posted by: katcourt79
» RE: No one said global warming is all your fault
Posted by: Robba29
» RE: No one said global warming is all your fault
Posted by: katcourt79
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Posted by: Eddie Van Helsing on Nov 14, 2009 3:44 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thanks for nothing.
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Posted by: swimmer963 on Nov 15, 2009 7:50 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nevertheless, I decided years ago not to have children of my own. I don't need to contribute to overpopulation, and anyway, by the time I would hit my twenties or thirties and get around to having kids, the future facing them could be pretty grim. The thought of not passing on my particular genes doesn't bother me. Someone else in my extended family will. And what's so special about my genes anyway? There are plenty of people alive who have better genes than me. It's the contents of my mind I would most like to pass on, and I can do that through teaching and mentoring other people's children, or maybe through raising a family of adopted kids. There are so many children in the world who never even get a chance to contribute to society because their parents can't even provide food or pay for their education. If I can benefit some of them directly, and others indirectly through donations and charity work, then I feel I will have made the largest contribution possible to the future of humanity while placing the minimum burden on this planet.
Of course, as I reach an age where people start to pressure me about children, I may end up changing my mind. Pregnancy frightens me, and for reasons specific to me I expect I would find it a nastier experience than most people, but sometimes I look at infants on the bus, or the three-year-old I've just taught to swim, and that seems like a small thing.
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Posted by: benfuziff on Nov 16, 2009 12:49 AM
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Posted by: flirt on Nov 16, 2009 10:39 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And there are people who have children: by accident, they feel they will be immortal by passing their DNA through offspring, they feel pressured to, they want to help the world by procreating and passing along their morals, think kids would fill a gap in their lives.
Regardless, it doesn't help to generalize. For example, the author brings up shoppers at Target. If you ignore all the good kids you've passed that day and just focus on the one in the shopping cart, then that is irresponsible, since it just shows selective statistics. Same holds for people generalizing about those who do not have kids, using words like selfish.
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Posted by: kbird on Nov 18, 2009 3:23 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And to whoever posted a comment here about child-free people being essentially selfish and shallow, you might want to reconsider your words. Some of us are making big contributions in other ways -- contributions that may even be much larger than we'd be making by raising a kid. (For example, I write books for educational publishers and have the privilege of helping to educate young people about respecting the natural world.) It's my belief that each of us was born as a "seed," and it's up to each of us to figure out what we're meant to turn into and to nurture the seed and give it the sunlight and water and love it needs to grow into the best it can be. If your seed is meant to turn into a parent, great -- go do it, and do it as well and consciously as possible. My seed wasn't meant to grow into a parent, and thank goodness I had the wisdom to recognize that and honor it. I'm doing what I came here to do -- as well and as consciously as I can. I'm grateful to be living during a time in history when I have a choice instead of being forced to live a one-size-fits-all life.
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Posted by: mimsi on Nov 24, 2009 5:44 PM
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Posted by: hdconverter on Dec 2, 2009 9:29 PM
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To be a thirtysomething woman in 2009 and not want a child so desperately that you think you might die is simply not allowed.
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Posted by: Serenalin on Dec 4, 2009 11:40 AM
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Posted by: Serenalin on Dec 4, 2009 11:46 AM
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Posted by: a7bkcam on Dec 8, 2009 1:21 AM
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Posted by: messedup on Nov 10, 2009 12:26 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: This is what I tell people.
Posted by: jaded
» What a strange pair of signatures!
Posted by: letrightbedone
» RE: What a strange pair of signatures!
Posted by: jaded
» Sorry, 'jaded'
Posted by: letrightbedone
» No, it is not...
Posted by: zigy
» RE: No, it is not...
Posted by: jaded
» RE: This is what I tell people.
Posted by: osd
» RE: This is what I tell people.
Posted by: jaded
» RE: This is what I tell people.
Posted by: xennonette
» Childless is not in my vocabulary....
Posted by: Beepath
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Posted by: Terrintokyo on Nov 10, 2009 1:17 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's a relief that, as I work through my own long list of middle-aged growing pains that there is no one depending on me to the point that if I don't eat, they don't.
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Posted by: geometeer on Nov 10, 2009 1:40 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here in India, people do like them: they carry them joyfully (and the bigger ones carry the little ones), and smile when they see them pull my snowy beard. Those children do not scream all the time in supermarkets or even airplanes, because they are among friends.
I don't regret not breeding, as it has taken me those decades to learn to like them, and be a surrogate grandfather. I'd have been a rotten dad.
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» Very insightful thought.
Posted by: zigy
» fantastic comment , so incredibly truthful
Posted by: sirios
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Posted by: batmagoo on Nov 10, 2009 1:41 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As I took-out the trash a few days ago, failing to separate the recyclables - as I do - I was nearly assaulted by a mother of many who pointed-out that "I was part of the problem." I kindly explained to her that no matter how much I pollute, and jet-set across the planet, I will never rival with the exponential carbon-footprint holocaust that her progeny is generating ad-infinitum - and that SHE, not I, was the real problem.
It may not have fixed anything, but it did shut her up.
This article by Liz Langley discusses a woman's perspective on the matter, and I can assure you that men are equal targets of similar comments from their peer groups.
Another retort to the usual silly inquiries might include: "Oh, I would like a family, and people around in my house when I am old, but it turns out that having children doesn't guarantee that the family will hold, or that I will even still have a house by the time things break-apart -- to say nothing of when I am old..."
I dare them to challenge that!
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» RE: A masculine perspective.
Posted by: ginny
» RE: A masculine perspective.
Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» I greatly admire your outlook...
Posted by: zigy
» You definitely need help …
Posted by: DJC11
» RE: A masculine perspective.
Posted by: jaded
» consumption, not overpopulation...
Posted by: undrgrndgirl
» You are an American patriot; she is a slave enabler.
Posted by: eddie torres
» RE: A masculine perspective.
Posted by: YogiBear
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Posted by: bookmonger on Nov 10, 2009 2:04 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You cannot miss a thing that you never wanted.
Upon reflection the whole Leave It To Beaver/Father Knows Best thing, for me personally, turns my stomach.
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» Kudos to you...
Posted by: zigy
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Posted by: philprism on Nov 10, 2009 2:07 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So some simple conclusions I have reached I would like to share:
If you don't want to make babies go in peace. Bonk with protection, masturbate in harmony and dedication. You babies will not be born as you wish, Your genetic identity will play no part in the future of the human race.
If you want a baby and can't have one, may god have mercy on your soul in this life.
For those that want a baby and go ahead and do it; Enjoy the sex, your partner and your babies. Love a lot, often and smile.
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» Churchy & Trite
Posted by: terradea42
» In your scenario...God's not very merciful
Posted by: moloko velocet
» RE: To Breed Or Not To Breed That is the Question
Posted by: Feltixx
» We ALL play a part in evolution, we are ALL related!!!
Posted by: greentime
» RE: To Breed Or Not To Breed That is the Question
Posted by: amandalynne
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Posted by: X-POLYGAMIST WIFE on Nov 10, 2009 2:16 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
BANKING ON HEAVEN . COM
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Posted by: maxfrisson on Nov 10, 2009 4:33 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I meet guys who seem to think it's a necessary fulfillment of something. I can honestly say that never, ever, in any way, shape, or form has the idea so much as crossed my mind that I might want to be a slave to a child for a sentence of two decades.
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» RE: I've heard them all
Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» RE: I've heard them all
Posted by: weenie
» Sadly, that 512 is probably only worth $135,000 today.
Posted by: eddie torres
» 2 decades my ass try For EVER
Posted by: Hiroak
» I share your sentiments exactly.
Posted by: zigy
» RE: I've heard them all
Posted by: mimsi
» RE: I've heard them all
Posted by: weenie
» RE: I've heard them all
Posted by: Cooltruth
» uh...daycare alone can cost $9000.00 annually !
Posted by: undrgrndgirl
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Posted by: Toby on Nov 10, 2009 5:04 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» you miss the point..
Posted by: zipper696
» RE: you miss the point..
Posted by: jaded
» RE: you miss the point..
Posted by: Just Danj
» RE: you miss the point..
Posted by: Just Danj
» RE: kids
Posted by: dirtyspeed
» They are selfish and know it....
Posted by: Jethro2112
» They do know it?
Posted by: dirtyspeed
» RE: They do know it?
Posted by: jroth420
» RE: They do know it?
Posted by: NoKidding
» RE: They do know it?
Posted by: dirtyspeed
» RE: They are selfish and know it....
Posted by: mimsi
» Oh yeah, there's no selfish parents, uh huh......
Posted by: colocha
» RE: kids
Posted by: waltermoss
» RE: kids
Posted by: 3leggeddub
» RE: kids
Posted by: dirtyspeed
» You have a point...
Posted by: mjabele
» RE: kids
Posted by: Vik
» RE: kids
Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» Up is down. Greed is love. Slavery is generosity.
Posted by: eddie torres
» RE: Up is down. Greed is love. Slavery is generosity.
Posted by: Toby
» RE: Up is down. Greed is love. Slavery is generosity.
Posted by: PopRox80
» RE: kids
Posted by: Naumadd
» thank you for adopting and not breeding.
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
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Posted by: yogachick on Nov 10, 2009 5:08 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Loved this
Posted by: jroth420
» A cult that you can never escape...
Posted by: eddie torres
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Posted by: Eric.Arthur.Blair on Nov 10, 2009 5:16 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It turned out to be a good thing. My wife died shortly before what would have been our fifth anniversary. Had we reproduced, there would be a child now entering adolescence, who would barely remember a mother, and who has a single father on disability unable to afford what it takes to raise a child. We married later in life than usual, and I have friends who are younger than me with grandchildren. I shudder to think of the struggles of dealing with a teenager at this time of my life, and am grateful that it didn't happen.
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» RE: My Late Wife And I Never Wanted 'Em
Posted by: NoKidding
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Posted by: exvagabond on Nov 10, 2009 5:45 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Too many people can multiply, but they can't add.
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» RE: Since I don't have kids,
Posted by: nen
» RE: Since I don't have kids,
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
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Posted by: moloko velocet on Nov 10, 2009 5:49 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The problem in this country is that the vast majority fall victim to the "9 silly things". There are plenty of children needing adoption.
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» however..
Posted by: zipper696
» RE: however..
Posted by: Jethro2112
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Posted by: souffrantfleur on Nov 10, 2009 5:51 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And if we do happen to figure out how to fix this giant mess, I'll be pleased that I helped lower the population.
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» Don't worry, it'll all be sorted out when the Sun goes red giant
Posted by: eddie torres
» Good point, if you would love your child why bring them in to this wicked world...
Posted by: zigy
» That's the same line I used to use.
Posted by: messedup
» RE: Kids born today will likely witness the collapse of civilization
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
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Posted by: ProgressiveManiac on Nov 10, 2009 5:56 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Still, there is something very appealing about children growing up in a healthy home environment. It is quite understandable that people should want to have children.
On the other hand, the social pressure on people who don't want children to nevertheless have them is confounding. More children is not what this world is crying out for and more children in unhappy homes is certainly not what is needed.
Anyone who feels it important to pressure someone to have children should ask themselves what kind of home such children are apt to have and how loving that parent is apt to be when that parent never really wanted to have children.
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Posted by: waltermoss on Nov 10, 2009 6:22 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. I'm selfish and I hate kids.
2. I'm slutty and want you to acknowledge me.
3. Christians are Idiots.
4. Right wingers are r-tards.
5. Substance X will kill you.
6. Marijuana is good for treating ailment X.
7. Cheating is better than monogamy.
It's gotten to the point where I just read the title and diagonally scan the text for key words. The rare gems of really interesting articles are getting even rarer. Oh well.
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» Obviously you would prefer...
Posted by: zipper696
» I didn't jump to that conclusion
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
» 8. You're destroying the planet if you eat X.
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
» RE: 8. You're destroying the planet if you eat X.
Posted by: waltermoss
» RE: Alternet keep publishing the same article over and over again
Posted by: MilesGregarius
» RE: Alternet keep publishing the same article over and over again
Posted by: MilesGregarius
» RE: Alternet keep publishing the same article over and over again
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
» C'mon. You know you love template #10.
Posted by: eddie torres
» RE: Alternet keep publishing the same article over and over again
Posted by: Archie1954
» And don't forget....
Posted by: moloko velocet
» True in some cases
Posted by: Robba29
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Posted by: MartianBachelor on Nov 10, 2009 6:33 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe it's because I live in a very "red" part of the country, and everyone else is too busy and wrapped up in being religious and having their own (large) families and carting them around in their infernal minivans and monster SUV's to notice or bother.
I don't know, but if they view me as some sort of anomaly they don't ever say anything. Maybe they feel they're more than doing their fair share, so they can tolerate the occasional nonconformist "slacker" (breeding-wise) like me.
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» But you know..
Posted by: zipper696
» Quiver full don'tyou know..
Posted by: Hiroak
» did you watch the film "Idiocracy?"
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
» Sign @ Tea Bagger rally: "Neuter Liberals, Not Dogs!"
Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
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Posted by: Spiritgirl on Nov 10, 2009 6:38 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Frankly, I'm appalled, by those comments from a few that call childless people selfish. Frankly, they aren't supporting you or the progeny they want you to have! More importantly - those are probably the very people that shouldn't be having kids (think Geoffry Dalhmer) because we see how they turn out!
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» Did you really just correlate
Posted by: Robba29
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Posted by: praedor on Nov 10, 2009 6:59 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Will you have my baby? Oh...uh...oops? Nevermind.
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Posted by: dirtyspeed on Nov 10, 2009 7:11 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: I think you've been misinformed.
Posted by: waltermoss
» RE: I think you've been misinformed.
Posted by: Naumadd
» RE: I think you've been misinformed.
Posted by: Robba29
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Posted by: ProfBob on Nov 10, 2009 7:21 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would also suggest the web sites of Dr. Jack Westman, M.D. a child psychiatrist and Professor Hugh LaFollette, a philosophy professor. Both are found by Googling 'licensing parents'.
It seems that with the world's overpopulation and the increasing lifespans both responsible for global warming, poverty, illegal immigration, and much more--we might give the child who are to be born a chance to fulfill their potentials and live happy and fruitful lives. Too many of the planet's infants don't have such a chance.
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» But who hands out the licences?
Posted by: colinmeister
» The billionaires. They hand out everything.
Posted by: eddie torres
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Posted by: vyckie on Nov 10, 2009 7:24 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Christian fundamentalism told me that as a woman, I could never really be fulfilled unless I embraced my "true calling" ~ that of motherhood.
I do not regret having seven children ~ each one is a unique and wonderful individual. But I am actually fairly pissed about the strict fundamentalist "biblical family" teachings which I believed so wholeheartedly that I was willing to risk my life to fulfill.
I'm writing about my journey into the most severe fundamentalist "Quiverfull" lifestyle ~ and how my daughter's attempted suicide forced me to wake up and rethink it all. I am no longer submitting my womb for God's purposes ~ I am no longer ordering my life according to the sacred text of an ancient patriarchal society ~ I am No Longer Quivering.
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» RE: I never wanted any kids ~ but today I'm the mother of seven
Posted by: LightningJoe
» RE: I never wanted any kids ~ but today I'm the mother of seven
Posted by: Naumadd
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Posted by: NoKidding on Nov 10, 2009 7:29 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Childfree and happy!
Posted by: Sushi
» RE: Childfree and happy!
Posted by: NoKidding
» RE: Childfree and happy!
Posted by: flirt
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Posted by: Todd on Nov 10, 2009 7:53 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mr. Hall is correct. It took 100,000 years for modern humans to reach a population of 1.6 billion in 1900. It took just over 100 years to more than quadruple that number to 6.7 billion.
Faced with these facts, one has to question: Of what value to the earth is a breeding heterosexual human couple? Biologically speaking, one could argue that the partial extinction of 6 billion humans could only be a benefit.
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» RE: The Most Important Paragraph in the Whole Piece:
Posted by: Naumadd
» RE: The Most Important Paragraph in the Whole Piece:
Posted by: Robba29
» RE: The Most Important Paragraph in the Whole Piece:
Posted by: PopRox80
» RE: The Most Important Paragraph in the Whole Piece:
Posted by: Robba29
Comments are closed-
Posted by: TimV on Nov 10, 2009 8:05 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Volunatry childlessness is instead a miscalculation of the needs of oneself and/or others, unless there are overriding reasons not to have kids. Obviously, childless people can serve humanity in ways other than child-rearing.
Since children are generally a great benefit to their parents, there is no reason to down childless people (and I don't think any negativity should be aimed at "Octomom" either.) Here are some answers to some chiding I received over not having kids:
When someone asked "didn't you want to have kids" I said "That's one possible explanation among other possible explanations."
A parent once said "you're lucky" for not having kids, so I said "you don't really mean that, do you?"
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» RE: Happy IN SPITE OF not having kids
Posted by: jroth420
» RE: Happy IN SPITE OF not having kids - not quite
Posted by: teddy
» RE: Happy IN SPITE OF not having kids - not quite
Posted by: TimV
» A great benefit? Show me the money.
Posted by: eddie torres
» RE: A great benefit? Show me the money.
Posted by: Toby
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sherry on Nov 10, 2009 8:06 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've made some other decisions that have not worked out so well, including marriage to a man who by no stretch of the imagination would have made a good father. Childbearing requires a courage, an ego that one's genetic material is worth replicating, or a blind eye to the realities of life today that I didn't have. About once a week I get this strange dread, as though I've escaped something that would have destroyed me. Not having children takes work and mindfulness ---- I have several friends with grown children (who even past the age of 40 are way too dependent on Mama) who tell me frankly they wish they had made my choice. Ironically, I happen to know they made no choice ---- they found themselves pregnant and went along for the ride.
Sorry to bring up a sore topic, but behind the questions about why I haven't had children is sometimes more than a hint of racism or elitism----mentions of our browning population or the weakening gene pool (sick stuff). My former sister-in-law, like the former Quiverfull, above, fell complete victim of that attitude in one of the right-wing neo-Nazi churches in Missouri. She was expected to produce Aryans on demand ---- followed by refusal of any medical attention for the kids or public education. They lived in poverty and abuse ---- after my divorce I didn't find out if she ever escaped.
So my answer to "why didn't you have children" is "I worked hard at it."
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Posted by: CorineJ on Nov 10, 2009 8:11 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Ontic on Nov 10, 2009 8:16 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Newsflash: EVERYONE GETS JUDGED BY OTHERS !!!
Fat, thin, skin tone, illness, disability, hair color/style, dietary choices/restrictions, clothing, job, political beliefs, religious beliefs, age, the car you drive, too many kids, not enough kids, how you are raising your kids, pets, how you are raising your pets, hobbies, sexual orientation, vocabulary, carbon foot print, the stores you shop at, the list is endless people.
Clearly the empathy aspect of the evolution of our species is still in the infancy stage.
May I suggest an article of why people judge?
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» RE: Just more proof that human beings say & do stupid things.....
Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» RE: Just more proof that human beings say & do stupid things.....
Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
Comments are closed-
Posted by: QQOblivion on Nov 10, 2009 8:17 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why I don't want to have kids (I was just thinking about this yesterday):
1) I'm ugly.
2) I am crazy.
3) I don't have a job.
4) I have a dirty house.
5) I would fear, to the point of insanity, my kids getting sick or killed.
6) I don't want to pass on my genes.
7) I don't want to contribute to overpopulation or climate-change.
8) I prefer to contribute to the world in other ways.
9) I can't get a date, let alone married.
And since I am not exactly a party-animal, I find claims that childless-people (including me) are "selfish" to be absolutely ludicrous. Maybe people who HAVE kids (without adopting) are the truly selfish ones (if anyone is selfish because of their views on having kids, anyway)!
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» 3 more
Posted by: QQOblivion
» You too can secretly be... Penn Jillette!
Posted by: eddie torres
» The Number One Reason I Don't Want Kids
Posted by: MJ Fields
» You forgot 10)
Posted by: zigy
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Posted by: dirtyspeed on Nov 10, 2009 8:33 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you don't make babies, others will.
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» RE: Idiocracy
Posted by: teddy
» RE: Idiocracy
Posted by: liz-at-blackrose
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Posted by: dawnsutro@hotmail.com on Nov 10, 2009 9:00 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Sad
Posted by: CorineJ
» RE: Sad
Posted by: Outsidetheboxlookingin
» RE: Sad
Posted by: tvaspen
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Posted by: Archie1954 on Nov 10, 2009 9:06 AM
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Posted by: exileinla on Nov 10, 2009 9:13 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am 33.5 and love children but feel that it is a bigger decision to decide to have children yourself than not to have children. I recently made the decision that I would rather go back to school to get a professional degree in healthcare, leading to a less stressful lifestyle and better career security with benefits, maternity leave and vacation time than give in to the clock and have kids now while my husband and I struggle to keep our small business going in this economy.
If I lived in a Scandanavian country where all kids get healthcare and a great education from nursery school on plus great maternity leave and other government support, I would have without a doubt have had kids by now. These days the stakes the stakes in the US are really high. If you are unlucky and you get sick or lose your job there is no safety net. You face the real risk of homelessness and bankruptcy, and your kids are fodder for the prison / military industrial complex. Once you have kids you have a lot less options when it comes to navigating our dangerous world.
I know that by choosing to go back to school before having children I might not be able to have children ever. I am just trying to play the best game with the hand I have been dealt.
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Posted by: jaded on Nov 10, 2009 9:21 AM
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» RE: xcellent choice
Posted by: Outsidetheboxlookingin
» RE: xcellent choice
Posted by: jaded
» you can keep the backhanded compliments
Posted by: inverse_agonist
» RE: you can keep the backhanded compliments
Posted by: jaded
» RE: you can keep the backhanded compliments
Posted by: PopRox80
» It's the inequality... and the Civil War
Posted by: eddie torres
» RE: It's the inequality... and the Civil War
Posted by: liz-at-blackrose
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Posted by: james108 on Nov 10, 2009 9:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
About the only time I would be trying to convince someone of how good a parent they would be is if I think they would be, and they are subtly or not so subtly asking my opinion, by bringing it up themselves.
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» RE: I find completely agree!
Posted by: wwittman
» RE: I find completely agree!
Posted by: katcourt79
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Posted by: mdsfilm on Nov 10, 2009 10:29 AM
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Posted by: linecrosser on Nov 10, 2009 12:02 PM
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» Idiot!! Third worlders will not STAY that way!
Posted by: Smartcookie
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Nov 10, 2009 12:46 PM
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» RE: "MIND YOUR OWN BUSNINESS"
Posted by: Basenjis
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Posted by: willymack on Nov 10, 2009 12:56 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In this country there are those who, in my opinion, shouldn't reproduce at all. Ever.
Of course, those people have way more kids than the rest, and those kids will grow up to be just as stupid, ignorant, hateful and intolerant as their parents.
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» RE: I can't say much about the rest of the world
Posted by: liz-at-blackrose
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Posted by: Robba29 on Nov 10, 2009 1:00 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: YOU are an example of why I didn't want kids.
Posted by: greentime
» RE: YOU are an example of why I didn't want kids.
Posted by: Robba29
» RE: YOU are an example of why I didn't want kids.
Posted by: PopRox80
» RE: YOU are an example of why I didn't want kids.
Posted by: Robba29
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Posted by: wireup on Nov 10, 2009 1:26 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Aren't there enough people on the planet already?
Is it even conceivable that our species will die out (given, of course, that we don't do ourselves in) because some of us prefer NOT to have children?
What kind of fuzzy mindless thinking is this anyway?
According to dictionary.com, one of the definitions for selfishness is:
"self-interested, self-seeking, egoistic; illiberal, parsimonious, stingy."
What is the desire to perpetuate one's self if not SELF-INTERESTED, SELF-SEEKING, EGOISTIC.
Personally, I have NEVER regretted not having children. Given what's going on now in this world, I think that NOT having children was the sanest possible decision. If you truly love your children, why would you want to subject them to the possibility of their demise in their lifetime due to lack of food or water or the very real possibility of an end to life on earth because of climate change. Is this how you love your children?
And, please, save the crap about being alone when you're older. This is NO reason to have children!!!
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» RE: Who is really the selfish one here?
Posted by: Ontic
» RE: Who is really the selfish one here?
Posted by: Robba29
» RE: Thank you wireup for "Who is really the selfish one here?"
Posted by: greentime
» I called you selfish
Posted by: Robba29
» Oh, and on the "NO reason to have children" bit
Posted by: Robba29
» RE: Go Robba!
Posted by: Ontic
» RE: Oh, and on the "NO reason to have children" bit
Posted by: wireup
» RE: Oh, and on the "NO reason to have children" bit
Posted by: Robba29
» RE: Oh, and on the "NO reason to have children" bit
Posted by: wireup
» RE: Oh, and on the "NO reason to have children" bit
Posted by: Robba29
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Posted by: Kym525 on Nov 10, 2009 1:33 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Are you gonna raise and pay for it for me?"
People should mind their own damn business and do better for the children who are already here (i.e. better health care, education and housing).
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» Well said...
Posted by: zigy
» Love the past, hate the future
Posted by: eddie torres
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Posted by: zigy on Nov 10, 2009 1:48 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It was the acclaimed linguist Steven Pinker who said that (and I paraphrase)from the moment of conception a child is at war with its mother for scarce resources;then once born, that war extends to the mother's attention. Who needs it! I'm an introvert and I fear that if I had one of those fussy, screaming infants I would either loose my mind or...well, enough said.
Anyway, if one really wants to nurture a child (and more power to those who do, you can have it)you can always adopt. Lord knows, there are plenty of unwanted children out there....
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Posted by: stinkypoot on Nov 10, 2009 4:22 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm glad you made the right decision for you and I'm glad you are happy. After all, if there is one thing humanity could stand to do less of, it's breeding! And this country in particular does not need more unwanted children.
To each their own, I say, and with healthy respect.
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Posted by: vertical on Nov 10, 2009 5:49 PM
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» Exactly...
Posted by: veggiegrrrl
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Posted by: MJ Fields on Nov 10, 2009 6:26 PM
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» RE: They Think You'll Want Kids Once They Have Kids
Posted by: Archie1954
» RE: They Think You'll Want Kids Once They Have Kids
Posted by: Naumadd
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Posted by: ladyoracle on Nov 10, 2009 9:23 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People often tell me I would be a great mother because I am a good cook and I am a supportive friend, but just because my hypothetical child would be well-fed doesn't mean shit, and I am supportive because I believe the world is a place full of sadness and unfulfilled expectations, disappointment, and violence--therefore I pity all of us humans who are stuck in this existence and work to do what I can to help my peers make the most of it and not get bogged down in the black tar of life. But I certainly would never bring a person into this life and be responsible for subjecting them to sorrow.
Adoption, however, is a fine idea that I might pursue when the time is right. That way I am not responsible for the fact of someone's existence, but I could devote myself to helping them make the best of it.
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