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9 Silly Things People Say When They Hear You Don't Want Kids (And Ways to Counter Them)

Wanting kids isn't just the social norm, it's said to be a biological imperative, the only supposed "duh" of evolution. But yet, some of us choose not to -- and for good reason.
November 10, 2009  |  
 
 
 
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It's been about five years since anyone asked me, "Why don't you have kids?"

"Just lucky, I guess," was my response then (it was a kid who asked me), and my friends and colleagues just know it's a non-issue, like you wouldn't ask Woody Allen if he'd like to go camping.

The subject has been in my thoughts, though, ever since I realized that I'm about to turn 45, which means that not being a celebrity, my chances of reproducing are now Olsen-twin thin. The realization that my fertility was a closed issue made me feel a bit like I did when they retired the Concorde: It wasn't likely I'd ever use it, but it was nice to know it was there.

Now if this were a movie, this would fling me into crisis mode -- I imagine Sandra Bullock having a comical panic attack, to bouncy-but-urgent music, and hatching a crazy plan to go the turkey-baster route with her gay BFF (played by Matt Damon). Of course, there would be happy endings all around, including an infant so cute she would make a basket of kittens look like Keith Richards.

But I didn't panic. I felt relieved and actually enjoy my friends' kids more now that the threat of motherhood had passed. I had occasional baby cravings in my 20s and 30s but curbed them like you would a yen for chocolate or cigarettes.

I never wanted kids the way some women do and I decided I wouldn't have one unless I got really rich, and since I didn't, I didn't.

Money plays a part in a lot of women's decisions. The U.S. birth rate recently dropped by 2 percent, Time magazine says, possibly because women are worried about having kids in this economy; it costs about $221,000 to raise one for 17 years (sadly, though, the story says, the economy is also making some of them skimp on contraception).

So, done. Curtain. And now a moment to stretch my legs before starting the last act.

Wanting kids isn't just the social norm, it's said to be a biological imperative, the only supposed "duh" of evolution, so I know my lack of sentiment isn't especially mainstream. I listen to people rhapsodize about parenthood, that it's so fulfilling and the greatest job in the world and good for them -- the more happiness in the world, the better.

Then I see parents at Target -- with one kid screaming in the cart, one screaming in their arms -- looking as blissful as a cat in a dryer. And I remember to take my pill.

Maybe because I was raised in the '70s heyday of feminism, or maybe ambivalence toward breeding is innate (Madelyn Cain's 2001 book The Childless Revolution: What It Means to be Childless Today, touches on the Mest gene in mice, which seemed to determine their levels of maternal behavior), but I never felt fazed by social pressure in my decision.

Now, in the interest of people who are made to feel defensive about their choice to be childless, and those who put them there, here are "Nine Things People Say When They Hear You Don't Want Kids" (and ways I've found to counter them).

1. Aren't you worried about ending up old and lonely?

No. When Mel Brooks, playing the 2,000-year-old man, joked that "I have over 1,500 children and not one comes to visit me on a Sunday," he had a point: There's no guarantee that kids will be there for you in your old age. Plus, the University of Florida has shown that the idea of the lonely, childless senior is flat not true.

University of Florida sociology professor Tanya Koropeckyj-Cox's 2003 study concluded that there's no higher rate of depression or loneliness among childless seniors. Of the 3,800 people between the ages of 50 and 84 who were surveyed about loneliness, responses didn't vary much between those who had kids and those who didn't. According to the University of Florida report:

"One reason is that some people without children are able to maintain social ties throughout their lives that may substitute for what children would have given them, Koropeckyj-Cox said. They may do this with friends, work relationships or the younger generation, she said."

As for those seniors who did have kids, it was how well they got along that mattered, not just the fact that they were family.

2. "But you'd have such great kids!"

Thanks! But that's what everyone thinks! You know damn well they're not all right!

3. "But you'd be such a great mom!"

That's nice, dear ... have a cookie. While some people simply adore kids, others of us are better at providing wise Mrs. Garrett-style comfort. If you're a good listener, there are already plenty of kids and adults who could use your empathy.

"It's a completely overused sentiment, but it takes a village," says Jenn Cole, a self-employed graphic designer from San Francisco, who can't wait to give her support as the "cool auntie" but has no interest in being Mom.

"In this increasingly complex world, kids need lots of adults in their lives. This used to be covered through extended-family networks and close-knit communities," she writes in an e-mail, adding that she cherished the outside influences of teachers, neighbors and mentors. "I will never forget the ballet teacher that helped me find my own beauty in movement, or the English teacher who got me deeply into literature, or the religion teacher who subtly echoed my questioning, or the old lady up the street who taught me to bake cookies and was so different from my mean and bitter grandmother. I can't wait to be these things to my friends' kids," she says.

Indeed, what would any of our parents have done without outside support?

4. Don't you want a family?

I was raised in a family. That was plenty.

Seriously, some people just don't function well in traditional families, which are like albums -- there are only two tracks you like, but you have to buy the whole damn record. Some of us just work better a la carte.

5. "But they're so cute!"

This is a topping good reason to buy a Hello Kitty "vibrator," but to bring a whole new person into existence?

"Ten years ago, I did this children's festival," says a close friend who is a parent and a teacher, "and there were these vendors, and on this one tote bag there was a poem about the beauty and innocence of children and how wonderful the world was because of children. I said to her 'You don't have kids, do you?' And she said 'No, but I really want them.'

"One of the pluses of not having children is being able to maintain this idealism that human beings are innocent."

This woman is as good with kids as anyone you'll ever meet, but not because they're angels.

"I love kids, but not because they're nice," she says, adding that they're actually downright mean at times. "Don't have a kid thinking they're going to make you feel better about yourself.

"They're more real. They haven't built up the bullshit meter yet, so you know where you're coming from all the time."

She loves them, she says, because they're people, and she loves people.

And they're their own people. Don't have a kid if what you want is a Mini-Me.

"When we have a kid, there's the idea that somehow ... they're going to represent us in the world, and they're going to love us unconditionally ... that's the reason people have kids. If you knew the moment you had them you had to let them go, who would have kids?"

6. "But it's natural."

It's amazing how selective our society is about the "natural" things we promote versus the ones we scowl at. Nudity is natural -- and banned. Hunting is certainly more natural than shopping, but most people wouldn't kill a pig to get a Baconator.

7. "It's a woman's greatest achievement."

Producing a spin-off could well be the greatest achievement of a lot of people, but just because your contributions don't get diaper rash doesn't mean you haven't made any.

Some notable childless achievers: Jesus Christ, Julia Child, Oprah Winfrey, George Washington, Amelia Earhart, Rock Hudson, George Clooney, the Dalai Lama, Dr. Seuss, Margaret Mitchell, Katharine Hepburn, Jay Leno and Helen Mirren. Mirren was traumatized by an educational film on childbirth as a teen, saying (quoted here in Marie Claire): "I haven't had children, and now I can't look at anything to do with childbirth. It absolutely disgusts me."

8. "You'll change your mind."

Now that I'm old, no one can say this to me anymore, but if anyone says it to you, Grasshopper, just return their condescending smile and say that one day they'll change their mind about their partner, career choice, spiritual predilections or any other extraordinarily personal element of their lives. See how they like it.

9. "You should have at least one of your own."

This is one of my favorites, as though kids were canapés or raffle tickets that would be gone by the time the party is over instead of people who require care, feeding and lots and lots of things.

"When I see babies, not only do I see the beauty, joy and miracle of life, I also see nappies, landfill waste, vast amounts of food and money needed, and a very shaky, unpredictable future," Joanna Benn wrote for the BBC Science & Environment blog when she was an independent on the whys and whethers of having kids. She now works for the United Nations Environmental Program, but gave permission to quote her past work, where she also noted the U.N. projections that "the world population will nearly stabilize at just above 10 billion people after 2200."

Overpopulation is the greatest threat to our environment, according to a recent survey of professors at State University of New York College of Environmental Science and Forestry. In a story in Science Daily, systems ecologist Charles Hall called it "the only problem."

A study by Oregon State University says that the carbon imprint of child born in the U.S. now is 20 times as important as the other eco-savvy measures a parent might take, like recycling or driving a hybrid vehicle (the carbon emissions in America, with our consumer-based lifestyle and longer life spans, is higher than in many other countries).

The choice of whether to have kids is such an intensely personal one that it seems weirdly disproportionate to literally put the weight of the world on one's shoulders when considering it; it's at least self-satisfying to know that my choice was a green one, albeit by accident.

Finally, it's less what we do to the world as what the world is capable of doing to us that also made me leery of bringing anyone into a place this tough. You have to be an optimist to have kids, and I'm more your neurotic emotional claustrophobe. At least I know it; I also know, unshakably, that I made the right choice.

And choice is what it comes down to in the end -- a simple to each his own, without either side passing judgment on the other for the most important and personal decision of all.

Liz Langley is a freelance writer in Orlando, Fla.
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This is what I tell people.
Posted by: messedup on Nov 10, 2009 12:26 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I say look, for what I'd pay to raise one kid in the U.S. I could raise an army of kids in a 3rd world country. I'd rather spend my child-raising money feeding kids who I know will eat their dinner.

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» What a strange pair of signatures! Posted by: letrightbedone
» Sorry, 'jaded' Posted by: letrightbedone
» No, it is not... Posted by: zigy
» RE: No, it is not... Posted by: jaded
» RE: This is what I tell people. Posted by: xennonette

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I agree - it's a personal choice
Posted by: Terrintokyo on Nov 10, 2009 1:17 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
not a biological or societal imperative that I have to pay any attention to.

It's a relief that, as I work through my own long list of middle-aged growing pains that there is no one depending on me to the point that if I don't eat, they don't.

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Nobody should have kids unless they LIKE kids.
Posted by: geometeer on Nov 10, 2009 1:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Liking kids, enjoying being around them, is different from the Love that most people claim to have. In the US and UK, most people find it so hard to imagine actually liking children, as children, that anybody who does is a suspected sexual predator, as the only reason that makes sense. (This collective sexualization of children surely raises the risk.)
Here in India, people do like them: they carry them joyfully (and the bigger ones carry the little ones), and smile when they see them pull my snowy beard. Those children do not scream all the time in supermarkets or even airplanes, because they are among friends.
I don't regret not breeding, as it has taken me those decades to learn to like them, and be a surrogate grandfather. I'd have been a rotten dad.

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» Very insightful thought. Posted by: zigy

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A masculine perspective.
Posted by: batmagoo on Nov 10, 2009 1:41 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I experience enormous pressure from my surroundings, as a successful man in my forties, to explain why I do not have children nor want them -

As I took-out the trash a few days ago, failing to separate the recyclables - as I do - I was nearly assaulted by a mother of many who pointed-out that "I was part of the problem." I kindly explained to her that no matter how much I pollute, and jet-set across the planet, I will never rival with the exponential carbon-footprint holocaust that her progeny is generating ad-infinitum - and that SHE, not I, was the real problem.
It may not have fixed anything, but it did shut her up.

This article by Liz Langley discusses a woman's perspective on the matter, and I can assure you that men are equal targets of similar comments from their peer groups.

Another retort to the usual silly inquiries might include: "Oh, I would like a family, and people around in my house when I am old, but it turns out that having children doesn't guarantee that the family will hold, or that I will even still have a house by the time things break-apart -- to say nothing of when I am old..."

I dare them to challenge that!

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» RE: A masculine perspective. Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» consumption, not overpopulation... Posted by: undrgrndgirl
» RE: A masculine perspective. Posted by: YogiBear

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I Missed That Day In School
Posted by: bookmonger on Nov 10, 2009 2:04 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The reason I never got married, had kids, indeed have ever owned a brand new car is that it is as though all of those things were taught the one day I was ill and missed that day in school.

You cannot miss a thing that you never wanted.

Upon reflection the whole Leave It To Beaver/Father Knows Best thing, for me personally, turns my stomach.

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» Kudos to you... Posted by: zigy

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To Breed Or Not To Breed That is the Question
Posted by: philprism on Nov 10, 2009 2:07 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Men have sperm, women have vaginas and ovaries. If we don't have sex the species will die out.

So some simple conclusions I have reached I would like to share:


If you don't want to make babies go in peace. Bonk with protection, masturbate in harmony and dedication. You babies will not be born as you wish, Your genetic identity will play no part in the future of the human race.

If you want a baby and can't have one, may god have mercy on your soul in this life.

For those that want a baby and go ahead and do it; Enjoy the sex, your partner and your babies. Love a lot, often and smile.

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» Churchy & Trite Posted by: terradea42

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X-FUNDIE
Posted by: X-POLYGAMIST WIFE on Nov 10, 2009 2:16 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article should be sent to every polygamist at the YFZ Ranch in Eldorado, Texas, and to every Mormon in Utah.

BANKING ON HEAVEN . COM

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I've heard them all
Posted by: maxfrisson on Nov 10, 2009 4:33 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm 57 and happily childless. I was engaged to be married in about 1976-7 to a woman in Portland, OR and she asked how many kids I wanted and I said NONE, she asked why and I said it costs $150,000 to raise a kid to 18 and a Ferrari costs $125,000. I never have seen a kid I liked as well as a 12-cylinder piece of Italian moto Art. She got over the shock, told me she was pregnant and I paid for the abortion. We never married and I bought a 512 a few years later.

I meet guys who seem to think it's a necessary fulfillment of something. I can honestly say that never, ever, in any way, shape, or form has the idea so much as crossed my mind that I might want to be a slave to a child for a sentence of two decades.

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» RE: I've heard them all Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» RE: I've heard them all Posted by: weenie
» RE: I've heard them all Posted by: mimsi
» RE: I've heard them all Posted by: weenie
» RE: I've heard them all Posted by: Cooltruth

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kids
Posted by: Toby on Nov 10, 2009 5:04 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wow! I'm genuinely shocked at the outpouring of thinly disguised selfishness in this article and many of the comments. I feel the deepest pity for those who think a happy life is all about their own comfort and convenience. No matter how such attitudes are masked in PC blather about carbon footprints or schtick about "they'll never call, they'll never write," it reveals an impoverished and self-centered philosophy that places little or no value on love and on the fact that, once you become involved in the life of a child, other considerations pale to insignificance. I have been blessed with four adopted sons - all now pretty much grown into brilliant and beautiful young men. They have been the sunshine and joy of my life. Yes, there have been some difficult passages. Perhaps they would have gotten through them without me and my fatherly advice but that I was there to help them has meant more to me than any of my personal accomplishments. I have had a good and long life and have achieved much - advanced degrees, grand adventures, publication, some influence in certain spheres - but somehow, nothing I have done myself has given me as much pride and pleasure as what those boys have accomplished and knowing that, to the best of my ability, I helped them become what they are - good, caring, decent, happy young men. If you can find other, greater rewards in life, so be it and good luck to you, but as for me, I thank all the gods for putting those kids into my life.

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» you miss the point.. Posted by: zipper696
» RE: you miss the point.. Posted by: jaded
» RE: you miss the point.. Posted by: Just Danj
» RE: you miss the point.. Posted by: Just Danj
» RE: kids Posted by: dirtyspeed
» They are selfish and know it.... Posted by: Jethro2112
» They do know it? Posted by: dirtyspeed
» RE: They do know it? Posted by: jroth420
» RE: They do know it? Posted by: NoKidding
» RE: They do know it? Posted by: dirtyspeed
» RE: kids Posted by: waltermoss
» RE: kids Posted by: 3leggeddub
» RE: kids Posted by: dirtyspeed
» You have a point... Posted by: mjabele
» RE: kids Posted by: Vik
» RE: kids Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» RE: kids Posted by: Naumadd

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Loved this
Posted by: yogachick on Nov 10, 2009 5:08 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you for writing this article. I am 38 and so tired of having to answer this question. My sister, who has 2 kids, says I am the smartest person she knows for not having kids-she said its like a religious cult, friends try to convince each other to have kids saying how wonderful it is and there is nothing like it, and then once you are pregnant, they laugh at you. I think the "you're going to be old and lonley" comment is the most insulting because it sounds like they only had kids in order to have someone to fawn over them when they are old.

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» RE: Loved this Posted by: jroth420
» A cult that you can never escape... Posted by: eddie torres

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My Late Wife And I Never Wanted 'Em
Posted by: Eric.Arthur.Blair on Nov 10, 2009 5:16 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And we knew that going into marriage. We married for us, not for progeny. Both of us had had unpleasant childhoods, and didn't feel that the experience had left us with whatever it takes to be good parents.

It turned out to be a good thing. My wife died shortly before what would have been our fifth anniversary. Had we reproduced, there would be a child now entering adolescence, who would barely remember a mother, and who has a single father on disability unable to afford what it takes to raise a child. We married later in life than usual, and I have friends who are younger than me with grandchildren. I shudder to think of the struggles of dealing with a teenager at this time of my life, and am grateful that it didn't happen.

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Since I don't have kids,
Posted by: exvagabond on Nov 10, 2009 5:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...mine won't be fighting yours over jobs, living space and parking, and eventually air and water.

Too many people can multiply, but they can't add.

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» RE: Since I don't have kids, Posted by: veggiegrrrl

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Commendable
Posted by: moloko velocet on Nov 10, 2009 5:49 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've always admired people who had the wisdom, and self awareness to decide against having children. Ironically, these types would, because of their wisdom, probably make great parents.

The problem in this country is that the vast majority fall victim to the "9 silly things". There are plenty of children needing adoption.

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» however.. Posted by: zipper696
» RE: however.. Posted by: Jethro2112

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Kids born today will likely witness the collapse of civilization
Posted by: souffrantfleur on Nov 10, 2009 5:51 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These days, not having kids is the least selfish thing a person can do. Most folks who have kids ultimately do it for one reason- the immortality factor. But now we're in the waning days of a livable ecosystem and beginning of the collapse of our oil-based civilization. Why on earth would I want to punish a new human with such a horrifying life sentence, and for a crime they didn't commit? I'm not having kids because there's not going to be much left for them after our long, selfish carbon party.

And if we do happen to figure out how to fix this giant mess, I'll be pleased that I helped lower the population.

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Population Growth
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac on Nov 10, 2009 5:56 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The growth in population is not as rapid as it once was; people are having smaller families. However, population is still growing exponentially and that is simply unsustainable. No closed environment (like earth) can forever sustain positive exponential growth of any species. In this context, we should all think clearly about the number of children we have.

Still, there is something very appealing about children growing up in a healthy home environment. It is quite understandable that people should want to have children.

On the other hand, the social pressure on people who don't want children to nevertheless have them is confounding. More children is not what this world is crying out for and more children in unhappy homes is certainly not what is needed.

Anyone who feels it important to pressure someone to have children should ask themselves what kind of home such children are apt to have and how loving that parent is apt to be when that parent never really wanted to have children.

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Alternet keep publishing the same article over and over again
Posted by: waltermoss on Nov 10, 2009 6:22 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Alternet Article Templates:

1. I'm selfish and I hate kids.
2. I'm slutty and want you to acknowledge me.
3. Christians are Idiots.
4. Right wingers are r-tards.
5. Substance X will kill you.
6. Marijuana is good for treating ailment X.
7. Cheating is better than monogamy.

It's gotten to the point where I just read the title and diagonally scan the text for key words. The rare gems of really interesting articles are getting even rarer. Oh well.

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» Obviously you would prefer... Posted by: zipper696
» I didn't jump to that conclusion Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
» And don't forget.... Posted by: moloko velocet
» True in some cases Posted by: Robba29

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Sorry to report...
Posted by: MartianBachelor on Nov 10, 2009 6:33 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...I've never run into even one of these nine things, though I've heard they're present in the general cultural atmosphere.

Maybe it's because I live in a very "red" part of the country, and everyone else is too busy and wrapped up in being religious and having their own (large) families and carting them around in their infernal minivans and monster SUV's to notice or bother.

I don't know, but if they view me as some sort of anomaly they don't ever say anything. Maybe they feel they're more than doing their fair share, so they can tolerate the occasional nonconformist "slacker" (breeding-wise) like me.

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» But you know.. Posted by: zipper696
» Quiver full don'tyou know.. Posted by: Hiroak

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Kids....
Posted by: Spiritgirl on Nov 10, 2009 6:38 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I genuinely appreciated this article, thank you. Although I've added to the carbon foot-print (got kids), it has never really occurred to me that people without kids get harassed by their "friends & family". Of course there were times that I had to ask myself "why did I have kids again?" usually these were the times when the "angels" had sprouted horns & tail, or very innocently blurted out questions or honest answers to questions by adults, who generally weren't prepared for those answers!

Frankly, I'm appalled, by those comments from a few that call childless people selfish. Frankly, they aren't supporting you or the progeny they want you to have! More importantly - those are probably the very people that shouldn't be having kids (think Geoffry Dalhmer) because we see how they turn out!

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Hey Liz
Posted by: praedor on Nov 10, 2009 6:59 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You have a way with words. I love the "basket full of kittens look like Keith Richards" and the "blissful as a cat in a dryer". Hilarious and smooth.

Will you have my baby? Oh...uh...oops? Nevermind.

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I think you've been misinformed.
Posted by: dirtyspeed on Nov 10, 2009 7:11 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I really don't think you would have great kids nor make a good mother. Your general smug and condescending attitude not to mention your apparent selfishness are not good traits of a parent. Personally I am glad you do not have kids. So can I have that cookie now?

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Way too many unloved children
Posted by: ProfBob on Nov 10, 2009 7:21 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The good solution might be, heaven forbid, to license parents when they can show that they are capable of loving, are mentally stable, are financially able, and are of sufficient age. I suggest reading the pertinent sections of books 3 and 5 of the free ebook series on overpopulation, titled ". . .And Gulliver Returns" at http://andgulliverreturns.info
I would also suggest the web sites of Dr. Jack Westman, M.D. a child psychiatrist and Professor Hugh LaFollette, a philosophy professor. Both are found by Googling 'licensing parents'.
It seems that with the world's overpopulation and the increasing lifespans both responsible for global warming, poverty, illegal immigration, and much more--we might give the child who are to be born a chance to fulfill their potentials and live happy and fruitful lives. Too many of the planet's infants don't have such a chance.

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» But who hands out the licences? Posted by: colinmeister

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I never wanted any kids ~ but today I'm the mother of seven
Posted by: vyckie on Nov 10, 2009 7:24 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is because I gave my life to Jesus at age 17 and started living for Him. It no longer mattered what I want or what I thought I could handle ~ it was all about, "What did God intend for me as a woman? What was I created for?"

Christian fundamentalism told me that as a woman, I could never really be fulfilled unless I embraced my "true calling" ~ that of motherhood.

I do not regret having seven children ~ each one is a unique and wonderful individual. But I am actually fairly pissed about the strict fundamentalist "biblical family" teachings which I believed so wholeheartedly that I was willing to risk my life to fulfill.

I'm writing about my journey into the most severe fundamentalist "Quiverfull" lifestyle ~ and how my daughter's attempted suicide forced me to wake up and rethink it all. I am no longer submitting my womb for God's purposes ~ I am no longer ordering my life according to the sacred text of an ancient patriarchal society ~ I am No Longer Quivering.

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Childfree and happy!
Posted by: NoKidding on Nov 10, 2009 7:29 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a forty-five yr. old woman who knew at about age eight(!) that she didn't want kids. I just knew in my soul. Thank you for this article, I posted it on my Childfree forum. It is frustrating sometimes living in a world of consumerism and conformity, but I have stuck to my convictions and am all the happier for it....really people, we have choices when it comes to family planning!

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» RE: Childfree and happy! Posted by: Sushi
» RE: Childfree and happy! Posted by: NoKidding
» RE: Childfree and happy! Posted by: flirt

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The Most Important Paragraph in the Whole Piece:
Posted by: Todd on Nov 10, 2009 7:53 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Overpopulation is the greatest threat to our environment, according to a recent survey of professors at State University of New York College of Environmental Science and Forestry. In a story in Science Daily, systems ecologist Charles Hall called it "the only problem."

Mr. Hall is correct. It took 100,000 years for modern humans to reach a population of 1.6 billion in 1900. It took just over 100 years to more than quadruple that number to 6.7 billion.

Faced with these facts, one has to question: Of what value to the earth is a breeding heterosexual human couple? Biologically speaking, one could argue that the partial extinction of 6 billion humans could only be a benefit.

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Happy IN SPITE OF not having kids
Posted by: TimV on Nov 10, 2009 8:05 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Raising kids is a superficial pain in the ass, but I can see that having kids is a source of deep happiness. - Deep happiness clearly outweighs superficial pain-in-the-ass- experiences. Therefore, it is generally in people's self-interest to have kids (I'm childless due to marrying late in life.)
Volunatry childlessness is instead a miscalculation of the needs of oneself and/or others, unless there are overriding reasons not to have kids. Obviously, childless people can serve humanity in ways other than child-rearing.

Since children are generally a great benefit to their parents, there is no reason to down childless people (and I don't think any negativity should be aimed at "Octomom" either.) Here are some answers to some chiding I received over not having kids:

When someone asked "didn't you want to have kids" I said "That's one possible explanation among other possible explanations."

A parent once said "you're lucky" for not having kids, so I said "you don't really mean that, do you?"

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» A great benefit? Show me the money. Posted by: eddie torres

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thankful
Posted by: sherry on Nov 10, 2009 8:06 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I consider my very early decision not to have children the best decision of my life.

I've made some other decisions that have not worked out so well, including marriage to a man who by no stretch of the imagination would have made a good father. Childbearing requires a courage, an ego that one's genetic material is worth replicating, or a blind eye to the realities of life today that I didn't have. About once a week I get this strange dread, as though I've escaped something that would have destroyed me. Not having children takes work and mindfulness ---- I have several friends with grown children (who even past the age of 40 are way too dependent on Mama) who tell me frankly they wish they had made my choice. Ironically, I happen to know they made no choice ---- they found themselves pregnant and went along for the ride.

Sorry to bring up a sore topic, but behind the questions about why I haven't had children is sometimes more than a hint of racism or elitism----mentions of our browning population or the weakening gene pool (sick stuff). My former sister-in-law, like the former Quiverfull, above, fell complete victim of that attitude in one of the right-wing neo-Nazi churches in Missouri. She was expected to produce Aryans on demand ---- followed by refusal of any medical attention for the kids or public education. They lived in poverty and abuse ---- after my divorce I didn't find out if she ever escaped.

So my answer to "why didn't you have children" is "I worked hard at it."

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Re Nr. 4
Posted by: CorineJ on Nov 10, 2009 8:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My husband and I _are_ a family, thank you very much.

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Just more proof that human beings say & do stupid things.....
Posted by: Ontic on Nov 10, 2009 8:16 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is the not only subject where people are besieged with idiotic and inane comments. Life experience shows us that everyone will have to defend their live choices to people who have the need to judge. I know many parents who are the constant recipients of equally boorish and judgmental comments. You are not alone in your dismay of having to defend your life. You are not alone in your coming in contact with uncouth people.

Newsflash: EVERYONE GETS JUDGED BY OTHERS !!!


Fat, thin, skin tone, illness, disability, hair color/style, dietary choices/restrictions, clothing, job, political beliefs, religious beliefs, age, the car you drive, too many kids, not enough kids, how you are raising your kids, pets, how you are raising your pets, hobbies, sexual orientation, vocabulary, carbon foot print, the stores you shop at, the list is endless people.

Clearly the empathy aspect of the evolution of our species is still in the infancy stage.
May I suggest an article of why people judge?

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A List Of My Own
Posted by: QQOblivion on Nov 10, 2009 8:17 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nobody at all asks me why I don't have kids. That is because I am a nonconformist and ugly. Everyone I know is RELIEVED I don't have kids!

Why I don't want to have kids (I was just thinking about this yesterday):
1) I'm ugly.
2) I am crazy.
3) I don't have a job.
4) I have a dirty house.
5) I would fear, to the point of insanity, my kids getting sick or killed.
6) I don't want to pass on my genes.
7) I don't want to contribute to overpopulation or climate-change.
8) I prefer to contribute to the world in other ways.
9) I can't get a date, let alone married.

And since I am not exactly a party-animal, I find claims that childless-people (including me) are "selfish" to be absolutely ludicrous. Maybe people who HAVE kids (without adopting) are the truly selfish ones (if anyone is selfish because of their views on having kids, anyway)!

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» 3 more Posted by: QQOblivion
» You forgot 10) Posted by: zigy

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Idiocracy
Posted by: dirtyspeed on Nov 10, 2009 8:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://tinyurl.com/9mzz9s

If you don't make babies, others will.

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» RE: Idiocracy Posted by: teddy
» RE: Idiocracy Posted by: liz-at-blackrose

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Sad
Posted by: dawnsutro@hotmail.com on Nov 10, 2009 9:00 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm sad that you chose to serve the created rather than the Creator ! Your idealogy won't be past on to your offspring though. How ironic !

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» RE: Sad Posted by: CorineJ
» RE: Sad Posted by: Outsidetheboxlookingin
» RE: Sad Posted by: tvaspen

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I think
Posted by: Archie1954 on Nov 10, 2009 9:06 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
a parent gets out of any relationship with his of her children what they put into it. A woman I know who is now a grandmother at 61 years of age but who looks and acts 20 years younger (she was in the cosmetics industry) says that her three grandchildren have a normal grandmother (her son in law's parents) and her. She says that she is different as she teaches the kids the important things in life, "how to order sushi and how to make a good martini". She has taken to the role with gusto and having been a single mother for many years she has absolutely no regrets. My two sons are our pride and joy and are dedicated to their parents. Even amongst their busy academic, business and social lives we are blessed with their company on a regular basis. I certainly wouldn't change that for anything.

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Perfect Timing
Posted by: exileinla on Nov 10, 2009 9:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article really resonates with me. My mother and grandmother both had kids at the age of 21 with their high school sweethearts turned husbands, followed by divorce and extreme financial hardship as a single mother while getting an education to be a breadwinner.

I am 33.5 and love children but feel that it is a bigger decision to decide to have children yourself than not to have children. I recently made the decision that I would rather go back to school to get a professional degree in healthcare, leading to a less stressful lifestyle and better career security with benefits, maternity leave and vacation time than give in to the clock and have kids now while my husband and I struggle to keep our small business going in this economy.

If I lived in a Scandanavian country where all kids get healthcare and a great education from nursery school on plus great maternity leave and other government support, I would have without a doubt have had kids by now. These days the stakes the stakes in the US are really high. If you are unlucky and you get sick or lose your job there is no safety net. You face the real risk of homelessness and bankruptcy, and your kids are fodder for the prison / military industrial complex. Once you have kids you have a lot less options when it comes to navigating our dangerous world.

I know that by choosing to go back to school before having children I might not be able to have children ever. I am just trying to play the best game with the hand I have been dealt.

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Excellent choice
Posted by: jaded on Nov 10, 2009 9:21 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People who have nothing to give a child, should NEVER be parents, so I commend the posters on here who give their green, overpopulation, and other excuses as to why they do not want or have children. Those excuses are pretty weak, but the bottom line is that they made the right choice for them and for a child. They have nothing to give them. There are far too many examples of people who would rather just live for themselves, abusing or neglecting children that were put in their lives. Everything is not for everyone.

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» RE: xcellent choice Posted by: Outsidetheboxlookingin
» RE: xcellent choice Posted by: jaded
» you can keep the backhanded compliments Posted by: inverse_agonist

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I find it odd...
Posted by: james108 on Nov 10, 2009 9:37 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... that anyone would be trying to convince you to have kids, unless it was your mother or other half, in which case they have their right to ask and own desires for kids or grandkids, and it's still up to you...

About the only time I would be trying to convince someone of how good a parent they would be is if I think they would be, and they are subtly or not so subtly asking my opinion, by bringing it up themselves.

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» RE: I find completely agree! Posted by: wwittman
» RE: I find completely agree! Posted by: katcourt79

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A Tenth Comment
Posted by: mdsfilm on Nov 10, 2009 10:29 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is one more comment we received when people found out we (gasp!) had no children: "have you had your (husband/wife) looked at to see what's wrong? Maybe they can be fixed." Class is class, no matter how low.

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Carbon foot print bull
Posted by: linecrosser on Nov 10, 2009 12:02 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Consider, the carbon foot print of any third world human. Next to none. No more than an elephant or polar bear. It's pretty much a even trade. Now consider, the carbon foot print of any of the rich elite class. More than one home, with the power on just to maintain a proper humidity level so all the electronics will work when and if they visit this year. Several different types of transportation at their beck and call, none of which will be considered fuel efficient. One rich family consumes more and creates a larger footprint than a couple of tribes living like the did thousands of years ago. I have never understood the desire to know my family tree or to create a legacy. To me it devalues me as an individual and cripples future generation with a built in excuse for failure or the opposite a predetermined position of power that is undeserved (the Bush family) I have to adult children, both of whom I love and would die for. What I gave to them, was a dose of reality. Your dad's disabled and can't provide you with the things you want, so you'll have to get them thru your own efforts. I also told them that under no circumstances do I ever want to become a grand parent. So far they have been any parents dream.They have become accomplished in all their endeavors. Stayed out of debt, and can think critically in any situation. They see what is really going on in this f-up time and have chosen to remain childless. Life can be full with or without breeding.

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"MIND YOUR OWN BUSNINESS"
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Nov 10, 2009 12:46 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is the correct response to such a personal nature. Some may thinks it's rude, but it's not as rude as asking the qyestion in the first place. ANNA

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» RE: "MIND YOUR OWN BUSNINESS" Posted by: Basenjis

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I can't say much about the rest of the world
Posted by: willymack on Nov 10, 2009 12:56 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Except to say it's much more crowded in most places outside the USA.
In this country there are those who, in my opinion, shouldn't reproduce at all. Ever.
Of course, those people have way more kids than the rest, and those kids will grow up to be just as stupid, ignorant, hateful and intolerant as their parents.

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Aside from
Posted by: Robba29 on Nov 10, 2009 1:00 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
your in-laws (if you have them) or a nosy neighbor, no one gives two shits whether you decide to have kids or not. Why do these articles keep popping up? Seriously, are you that narcissistic--oh, wait, probably because you have chosen to live a life that is all about you and not somebody else. Oops, did that slip out. How about Alternet posts an article titled, "The 10 Stupidest Things People Who Don't Want Kids Keep Complaining About Without Any F***ing Reason". The majority of people have kids--even gay/lesbian partners in committed (or, hell, even single)relationships have kids because there is something inherent in most of us that drives us to that. Given that everything is a spectrum, of course there would be those who don't want them, but you are not the majority. And you are not a targeted, disenfranchised, persecuted, denied rights, denied personhood, minority. You are selfish, period. You want everything to be about YOU. Get a life.

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Who is really the selfish one here?
Posted by: wireup on Nov 10, 2009 1:26 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One of the above posters accused those of us who don't want children as being selfish! This sort of statement has ALWAYS mystified me. WHAT exactly is selfish about not wanting to pollute the planet with more people?

Aren't there enough people on the planet already?

Is it even conceivable that our species will die out (given, of course, that we don't do ourselves in) because some of us prefer NOT to have children?

What kind of fuzzy mindless thinking is this anyway?

According to dictionary.com, one of the definitions for selfishness is:

"self-interested, self-seeking, egoistic; illiberal, parsimonious, stingy."

What is the desire to perpetuate one's self if not SELF-INTERESTED, SELF-SEEKING, EGOISTIC.

Personally, I have NEVER regretted not having children. Given what's going on now in this world, I think that NOT having children was the sanest possible decision. If you truly love your children, why would you want to subject them to the possibility of their demise in their lifetime due to lack of food or water or the very real possibility of an end to life on earth because of climate change. Is this how you love your children?

And, please, save the crap about being alone when you're older. This is NO reason to have children!!!

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» I called you selfish Posted by: Robba29
» RE: Go Robba! Posted by: Ontic

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There's really only ONE thing to say
Posted by: Kym525 on Nov 10, 2009 1:33 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and that is...

"Are you gonna raise and pay for it for me?"

People should mind their own damn business and do better for the children who are already here (i.e. better health care, education and housing).

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» Well said... Posted by: zigy
» Love the past, hate the future Posted by: eddie torres

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Very thoughtful article, Ms. Langley.
Posted by: zigy on Nov 10, 2009 1:48 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a 52 year old male with no children, I have much sympathy for your outlook on this issue. I think many so-called "adults" have children for the most well, childish reasons: they want to flatter their own ego with someone who is just like them (and their oh so wonderful spouse). It never crosses their mind that THEIR wonderful little "bundle of joy" might grow up to be a psycopath or a serial-killer, or some lazy, dim-witted slob who can't do anything more than work in a gas station as an adult. (Not that there is anything wrong, per se in this kind of work, it would just be kind of disapointing if my kid aspired to this.)

It was the acclaimed linguist Steven Pinker who said that (and I paraphrase)from the moment of conception a child is at war with its mother for scarce resources;then once born, that war extends to the mother's attention. Who needs it! I'm an introvert and I fear that if I had one of those fussy, screaming infants I would either loose my mind or...well, enough said.

Anyway, if one really wants to nurture a child (and more power to those who do, you can have it)you can always adopt. Lord knows, there are plenty of unwanted children out there....

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I remember that...
Posted by: stinkypoot on Nov 10, 2009 4:22 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I used to hate when people said those things to me. I did wind up having a child (oops!) and it transformed my life and I am very glad. But I do remember what it felt like. I, for one, do not see people that way. My sister seems like she'll choose never to have children. She's a planetary geophysicist and doesn't have the time or inclination. She's happy being an aunt. I can barely remember what it was like not to be a daddy and I'm happy too.
I'm glad you made the right decision for you and I'm glad you are happy. After all, if there is one thing humanity could stand to do less of, it's breeding! And this country in particular does not need more unwanted children.
To each their own, I say, and with healthy respect.

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Dp onto others
Posted by: vertical on Nov 10, 2009 5:49 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am fifty and I have lost at least three women I loved because I did not want children (It is a dealbreaker to a lot of women). And the reason I chose not to have children is because I try to live by the adage "Do onto thers as you would want done onto you." Here is the deal, the Earth could be an Eden at 3 to 4 billion, and it is in bad shape at today's 6.7 billion, and it will be a living Hell at 9 to 10 billion. I do not want a child of mine living in that Hell! If a good plague came along, and I was a survivor then maybe I would want a child because then they might have a chance at a good life.

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» Exactly... Posted by: veggiegrrrl

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They Think You'll Want Kids Once They Have Kids
Posted by: MJ Fields on Nov 10, 2009 6:26 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My best friend was sure I'd change my mind and want a baby of my own once she had hers. I do love her daughter, but she just couldn't believe it when I didn't catch babyfever. I think some parents take it as a personal offense when their friends are childless by choice; like they can't imagine why we wouldn't want what they have. Or maybe misery loves company.

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Yes, I am selfish
Posted by: ladyoracle on Nov 10, 2009 9:23 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, I am selfish perhaps. But that's not a label reserved only for the childess by choice. How many mothers have accused themselves or been accused of being selfish? I've got a good friend who is judged as selfish by the other mothers in her daughter's playgroup because my friend likes to dress up and go on a girl's night out twice a month. Selfish indeed! The people who are doling out the selfish label need to take a hard look at themselves and see if in fact they are not jealous of anyone, parents or non-parents, who spend time on themselves and cultivate a self that isn't enmeshed with child rearing. If by selfish you mean that I take Socrates seriously when he says "Know thyself," then I am certainly quite selfish. I am selfish enough to look at what I am willing to do and what I truly want and then seek it out and not just do anything from buying a toothpaste or taking out a mortgage to yes, having a child, just because I am told by others that it will make me happy or is the best thing or right thing to do. What is best, right, and happiness-conducive happens not to be motherhood for me. The women in my condo think I am selfish, and that is fine, because I think they are petty and jealous of me, like they are toward friend who is a mother, but isn't the "right kind" by their cultish standards. I just feel sorry for their children!

People often tell me I would be a great mother because I am a good cook and I am a supportive friend, but just because my hypothetical child would be well-fed doesn't mean shit, and I am supportive because I believe the world is a place full of sadness and unfulfilled expectations, disappointment, and violence--therefore I pity all of us humans who are stuck in this existence and work to do what I can to help my peers make the most of it and not get bogged down in the black tar of life. But I certainly would never bring a person into this life and be responsible for subjecting them to sorrow.

Adoption, however, is a fine idea that I might pursue when the time is right. That way I am not responsible for the fact of someone's existence, but I could devote myself to helping them make the best of it.

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» RE: Yes, I am selfish Posted by: Naumadd
» RE: Yes, I am selfish Posted by: jaded

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Sure am glad that Mom and Dad had 6 kids....
Posted by: 24&somuchmore on Nov 10, 2009 9:52 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That way my wife and I can be a fantastic Aunt and Uncle. Counting the latest addition last month, we have 14 nieces and nephews, along with another 14 great nieces and nephews.

Along the way we have helped out a few of them financially and probably will do more for the younger ones.

I think the gene pool is well represented.

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Breeding Cattle & Property
Posted by: Naumadd on Nov 10, 2009 10:58 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Human beings aren't breeding cattle. Sure, if a breeding cow is how you wish to live your life, go for it but, considering the drastic overpopulation of the species on the planet, it's no longer a biological imperative for the survival of the species. Now, it's a choice and, between you and me, a relatively irresponsible one. That brings up the second point, even if it were a biological imperative of the species to breed more to ensure its survival, no one human being would easily agree that they are the property of the species as a whole and ought to do as they are told. This is mainly because none of us ARE, ever have been or ever will be anything but the sole property of ourselves and our selves alone, period and amen. Thank you very much and mind your own bloody business.

As for the rewards of "having one of your own" or of being a parent and having family, there are many great rewards of living from which one can freely choose. Creating a child of your own is only one and, as most parents will tell you, a "mixed bag" as rewards go. There are also many methods in which one can experience and then love or hate the status of "parent" and there are and can be many definitions of "family", most of which have nothing at all to do with having children of your own or having children at all and, arguably, more fulfilling and enduring than the usual one.

True, as I've heard others say - "If everyone thought as you do, the species would die out." Of course, they assume nature gives a damn whether human beings exist or not and assume that the human species MUST exist or else ... or else ... or else ... They never seem to answer that one or answer it with some flowery unsubstantiated diatribe about "an empty soulless universe" blah blah blah. It's no one's particular responsibility to "carry on the species". It either does or it does not and does only because those who wish to breed do and those who don't let the other half do as they like as long as the favor's returned. It's wrong to assume and declare that those who choose NOT to breed contribute nothing genuine to the survival of the species.

Right. You'll never adequately sell that one because it's complete crap ... and you know it.

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isnt it strange that men can be bachalors and..
Posted by: Bearzerker on Nov 10, 2009 11:16 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...childless and you'd never question it nor would you see an article about it, as its a given.

but when a woman is childless its like its un-natural or something...

the world population is near 6 billion with overpopulation causing many of the earths problems...

stay the course dear lass...
your decision to not have children isnt something new...

I applaud your choice but dread the need to articulate it in the media to find peace.

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think of something new to say...
Posted by: yusandnick on Nov 11, 2009 1:36 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Didn't we have an article with virtually the same content on this site about six months ago? It got a lot of attention then--so is that why we rewriting it now and pretending like it's something new??

It was pointless twaddle the first time around, and it's even more pointless now. Just like much of the other stuff that keeps repeating and repeating (TV shows are good, meat is poison, etc. etc.).

This site is really turning rancid.

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» and another thing... Posted by: yusandnick

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me thinks she doeth protest too much
Posted by: schubert on Nov 11, 2009 7:29 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you were as secure in your decision as you claim, you wouldn't go to all this trouble to justify it. If you don't want kids don't have them--who cares? I sure get a lot of joy from mine.

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Group marriage
Posted by: maxsmart on Nov 11, 2009 9:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the light of over-population and global eco-economic stresses it might be wise to have group marriages where more people share in aspects of giving birth, nurturing, raising, and teaching children in larger settings than the toxic nuclear family of over-consumption. There would be sharing of financial and emotional and intimacy and homekeeping needs along with greater biodiversity and less threat of abandonment and financial privation getting in the way. Plus there would be away to reduce population but allow a variety of levels of involvement with raising children if one wanted.

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» indeed, it takes a village... Posted by: veggiegrrrl

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The best one I've heard
Posted by: Bob Loblaw on Nov 11, 2009 2:52 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A few months ago I had a conversation with three coworkers- all parents- about why I didn't want to have kids. All three said to me almost simultaneously, "Ooooh, you're just not ready." (I'm 33, and one of the people saying this was 27.)

Gosh, guys, thanks. Maybe I'll get there someday.

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ML561
Posted by: ML561 on Nov 11, 2009 3:59 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Have children or do not, it is nobody's business but your own. I am, however, a bit curious about how families with 18 plus children (you know who I mean) manage to support this large brood. I had only one child and even with my husband working, had to depend partially on government help for basics such as baby food and diapers. Children are a huge expense, even for families who are carefully watching their budgets, at least for those who are trying to take care of them properly.

And maybe this is off the topic a little bit, but pregnant women seem to always be getting hassled for one reason or another. When I was pregnant people would criticize me for not eating enough, saying I was starving the baby. (My doctor had recommended several small meals throughout the day to settle my stomach, and my son turned out just fine, thank you.)

Then I got yelled at by a stranger while in a restaurant while I was drinking a nonalcoholic cocktail for "poisoning" my baby. Same thing happened when I went into a convenience store to get cigarettes for my brother. The clerk commenced to lecture me about how smoking was bad for pregnant women. Then there are all kinds of people who feel that they can just come up to you and pat you on the belly. Women are not brood mares!!!!

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Heard It All
Posted by: Minervah on Nov 11, 2009 6:03 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What an excellent article! I am 63 years old and child-free by choice. I have heard all the aforementioned "bingoes" and more.
The one that really cracks me up is when parents call me "selfish." There is nothing more selfish than a parents. They have to take care of their progeny no matter what and often do it at the expense of others beginning to creating new carbon footprints with each child to demanding tax breaks, discounts and other miscellaneous perks because they chose to reproduce.
I usually point out to these clueless parents that neither Mother Theresa nor Oprah had/have kids but both contributed greatly to the care of other people's kids. Many teachers, nurses and counselors devote their lives to other people's kids but have none of their own.
Contrary to what these meddlesome people preached, I always believed what I did with my uterus was my business. And I told them so.

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» Oprah/Mother Theresa Posted by: Robba29
» Dispute Carbon Footprint Posted by: katcourt79
» RE: Dispute Carbon Footprint Posted by: Robba29
» RE: Dispute Carbon Footprint Posted by: katcourt79
» RE: Oprah/Mother Theresa Posted by: Minervah

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max
Posted by: sultan on Nov 11, 2009 10:43 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]

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Positives and negatives cancel each other out
Posted by: Anderson on Nov 12, 2009 1:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I feel the positives of having children are cancelled out by equally big negatives, so there is no reason for everyone to have kids just for the heck of it...
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musher
Posted by: musher on Nov 12, 2009 2:59 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm amused at the level of vitriol displayed by some of the comments- usually made by the childed in regard to the childfree- of which I am happily the latter. Are you angry about the choice I made or the one you just realized you had? I have observed that the vast majority of people who have children do so because they believe it is an inevitabilty, not a choice- until it's too late of course.

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» RE: musher Posted by: secondbanana
» RE: musher Posted by: musher

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The last generation of humans...
Posted by: Greg001 on Nov 12, 2009 9:59 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have a "Children of Men" pessimism about parents and children today. People are cranking out kids as much as in the past, but nurturing them into full human-hood seems like a coin toss. I may sound like my parents speaking about my generation, but kids today are so de-centered; pomo zombies lost in materialism. Parenting is such a lonely chore in this society. There are no longer any social supports, mores, or institutions to help families raise childern to be happy, responsible adults. I am amazed anybody chooses to become parents, and I fear for their kids in this brave new world.

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Corporations LOVE overpopulation!
Posted by: Sushi on Nov 12, 2009 10:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Corporations love overpopulation and encourage it. More workers mean lower wages, mean more consumers, mean more profits going to the top of the pyramid.

Sushi
"A symphony is not played merely to reach its end. "

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A pleasant relief,
Posted by: sirios on Nov 12, 2009 7:21 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
from the daily dose of depressing world chaos. I throughly enjoyed reading most of the comments here. the commenters spoke from their heartfelt experiences. so much more uplifting than the usual verbal warfare. thanks to all who posted.

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Being Childless is being Responsible When You Can't Give Children What They Need
Posted by: jvbronke on Nov 13, 2009 2:59 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Unfortunately some people even who read this article don't get it. They seem to think that having children is just about liking them. Who doesn't like a child? It is being able to give them what they need including yourself that is the reality of this article and the importance. For the sake of everyone involved.

These questions posed are rather light weight in difficulty when posed by a friend compared to when you are in front of 250 people at a therapeutic weekend and the host asks you one. I had that happen to me at en event called THE LANDMARK FORUM (Used to be EST years ago). I chewed out this person mercilessly for even asking it and informed her I would never come back. I didn't. For people to make serious changes in their lives they have to focus on themselves, which is what the focus of her weekend was supposed to be. Diverting attention away from that to a biological function meant that she really had no real commitment to helping people make those changes. Nor smarts.

The complexity of life and relationships really point to the having of children as something akin to a death wish. Jobs don't last forever, especially ones that pay well and relationships change. Combined with the other life challenges means you are doomed to have one or many of them catch up with you. Just this past weekend I saw a man and a woman (husband and wife) working an intersection in Mishawaka, Indiana with signs for help for their family. I am sure there are millions more in this country in the same boat.

Some men look at the desire to have children as the meal ticket in a relationship to make it happen. So many women want children that if a man says he wants some then she’s on board, in spite of even if he already has ten. Go figure. There are so many brainless people. They will only learn the hard way. I appreciate this article. Hopefully, less people can be viewed as a good thing.

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existence is reasonable
Posted by: soundwonder on Nov 13, 2009 5:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just as you said "Wanting kids isn't just the social norm, it's said to be a biological imperative, the only supposed duh of evolution."
Maybe it is the past thing.We should know that the state of existence is reasonable.
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The problem is...
Posted by: 2dogarage on Nov 13, 2009 7:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
that those who chose to remain childless have had to swim against the tide of popular sentiment, perhaps proving that they are in some ways better candidates for parenthood as well as planetary stewardship, free of herd mentality and able to think for themselves, a trait one would surely want to pass on to their progeny?

Many people want children so that they can say that they did something important (in lieu of actually doing something truly important) in their lives and then spend the rest of their parenthood abusing their mini-mes who turned out to be just like them.

Unfortunately it is these mindless slackers, slaves to popular propaganda which dictates that we are all supposed to be narcissistic "stand-outs", who are replicating themselves out of control and leaving their NIKE footprints all over the planet.

Having children for some is a way of trying to find meaning in their own inherently small lives. Handed down to them by parents who felt the same way.

I personally would never expose my own flesh and blood to the obvious de-evolution that now spirals out of control on the planet.

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So now global warming is my fault?
Posted by: secondbanana on Nov 13, 2009 9:32 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a 47 year old single mother who supports her two teenaged daughters just fine on her own. I am not making any apologies for "overpopulating" the planet to you people who either chose not to have children or were just too homely to find anybody to F**K. I like my children and its satisfying to see them grow into intelligent young women. My "carbon footprint" might be larger than yours, but when one of my kids discovers a cure for HIV or cancer, you are going to be mighty glad they were born. Maybe they will never amount to much at all, but for right now, they help me find my car keys to my six cylinder station wagon!

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If it wasn't for gun control...
Posted by: Eddie Van Helsing on Nov 14, 2009 3:44 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I could just kneecap assholes who ask impertinent questions of my wife -- like why we don't have kids.

Thanks for nothing.

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Is it selfish not to want kids, or TO want kids?
Posted by: swimmer963 on Nov 15, 2009 7:50 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I should establish right now that I am a very maternal person and I adore children. No, they are not always fun to deal with, or cute. But the hours I spend working with children are probably the most satisfying in my life.

Nevertheless, I decided years ago not to have children of my own. I don't need to contribute to overpopulation, and anyway, by the time I would hit my twenties or thirties and get around to having kids, the future facing them could be pretty grim. The thought of not passing on my particular genes doesn't bother me. Someone else in my extended family will. And what's so special about my genes anyway? There are plenty of people alive who have better genes than me. It's the contents of my mind I would most like to pass on, and I can do that through teaching and mentoring other people's children, or maybe through raising a family of adopted kids. There are so many children in the world who never even get a chance to contribute to society because their parents can't even provide food or pay for their education. If I can benefit some of them directly, and others indirectly through donations and charity work, then I feel I will have made the largest contribution possible to the future of humanity while placing the minimum burden on this planet.

Of course, as I reach an age where people start to pressure me about children, I may end up changing my mind. Pregnancy frightens me, and for reasons specific to me I expect I would find it a nastier experience than most people, but sometimes I look at infants on the bus, or the three-year-old I've just taught to swim, and that seems like a small thing.

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Let's face it...
Posted by: flirt on Nov 16, 2009 10:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There may be several reason people do not have children. This could include: medically not being able, fear that they would not make good parents, they may have convinced themselves long ago that they didn't want children and do not want to go back on their resolution, they might think the world would be better a better place without their offspring, don't want the responsibility, they enjoy personal pursuits and their free time.

And there are people who have children: by accident, they feel they will be immortal by passing their DNA through offspring, they feel pressured to, they want to help the world by procreating and passing along their morals, think kids would fill a gap in their lives.

Regardless, it doesn't help to generalize. For example, the author brings up shoppers at Target. If you ignore all the good kids you've passed that day and just focus on the one in the shopping cart, then that is irresponsible, since it just shows selective statistics. Same holds for people generalizing about those who do not have kids, using words like selfish.

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Just Say No to Kids
Posted by: kbird on Nov 18, 2009 3:23 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm 58, and I had my tubes tied when I was 29. I've had a lot of people ask me why I decided not to have kids, and I always say, "I'm not temperamentally suited to having kids." That's enough to end the discussion for a lot of people. Most of the others say, "Oh, but you love them when they're yours" to which I respond, "It's not a matter of loving them -- it's a matter of choosing not to be miserable, and choosing not to inflict that misery on another human being." For the few who have continued to push the point, I've said something along the lines of: "You seem to have a really strong opinion about something that has absolutely nothing to do with your life. What's THAT about?" That usually does the trick.

And to whoever posted a comment here about child-free people being essentially selfish and shallow, you might want to reconsider your words. Some of us are making big contributions in other ways -- contributions that may even be much larger than we'd be making by raising a kid. (For example, I write books for educational publishers and have the privilege of helping to educate young people about respecting the natural world.) It's my belief that each of us was born as a "seed," and it's up to each of us to figure out what we're meant to turn into and to nurture the seed and give it the sunlight and water and love it needs to grow into the best it can be. If your seed is meant to turn into a parent, great -- go do it, and do it as well and consciously as possible. My seed wasn't meant to grow into a parent, and thank goodness I had the wisdom to recognize that and honor it. I'm doing what I came here to do -- as well and as consciously as I can. I'm grateful to be living during a time in history when I have a choice instead of being forced to live a one-size-fits-all life.

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Mest gene
Posted by: mimsi on Nov 24, 2009 5:44 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The more I think about this Mest gene the more intrigued I am. I've never had children. On my mother's side I had 2 great-aunts who never had children. On my father's side, neither of his 2 sisters had children. Two of my 3 female cousins on my father's side have never had children. Coincidence?

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Understand this way
Posted by: hdconverter on Dec 2, 2009 9:29 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Another lady I know, who is 35, didn't go as far as to say that she definitely does not want children. But to be openly, loudly undecided on the issue - at the point when her biological clock should be ticking so loudly that she can hardly sleep, eat or think about anything else - is to be brave enough, frankly. It's an admission that invites suspicion and pity. Convert Blu Ray to MKV

To be a thirtysomething woman in 2009 and not want a child so desperately that you think you might die is simply not allowed.

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This is what I tell people.
Posted by: messedup on Nov 10, 2009 12:26 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I say look, for what I'd pay to raise one kid in the U.S. I could raise an army of kids in a 3rd world country. I'd rather spend my child-raising money feeding kids who I know will eat their dinner.

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» What a strange pair of signatures! Posted by: letrightbedone
» Sorry, 'jaded' Posted by: letrightbedone
» No, it is not... Posted by: zigy
» RE: No, it is not... Posted by: jaded
» RE: This is what I tell people. Posted by: xennonette

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I agree - it's a personal choice
Posted by: Terrintokyo on Nov 10, 2009 1:17 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
not a biological or societal imperative that I have to pay any attention to.

It's a relief that, as I work through my own long list of middle-aged growing pains that there is no one depending on me to the point that if I don't eat, they don't.

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Nobody should have kids unless they LIKE kids.
Posted by: geometeer on Nov 10, 2009 1:40 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Liking kids, enjoying being around them, is different from the Love that most people claim to have. In the US and UK, most people find it so hard to imagine actually liking children, as children, that anybody who does is a suspected sexual predator, as the only reason that makes sense. (This collective sexualization of children surely raises the risk.)
Here in India, people do like them: they carry them joyfully (and the bigger ones carry the little ones), and smile when they see them pull my snowy beard. Those children do not scream all the time in supermarkets or even airplanes, because they are among friends.
I don't regret not breeding, as it has taken me those decades to learn to like them, and be a surrogate grandfather. I'd have been a rotten dad.

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» Very insightful thought. Posted by: zigy

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A masculine perspective.
Posted by: batmagoo on Nov 10, 2009 1:41 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I experience enormous pressure from my surroundings, as a successful man in my forties, to explain why I do not have children nor want them -

As I took-out the trash a few days ago, failing to separate the recyclables - as I do - I was nearly assaulted by a mother of many who pointed-out that "I was part of the problem." I kindly explained to her that no matter how much I pollute, and jet-set across the planet, I will never rival with the exponential carbon-footprint holocaust that her progeny is generating ad-infinitum - and that SHE, not I, was the real problem.
It may not have fixed anything, but it did shut her up.

This article by Liz Langley discusses a woman's perspective on the matter, and I can assure you that men are equal targets of similar comments from their peer groups.

Another retort to the usual silly inquiries might include: "Oh, I would like a family, and people around in my house when I am old, but it turns out that having children doesn't guarantee that the family will hold, or that I will even still have a house by the time things break-apart -- to say nothing of when I am old..."

I dare them to challenge that!

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» RE: A masculine perspective. Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» consumption, not overpopulation... Posted by: undrgrndgirl
» RE: A masculine perspective. Posted by: YogiBear

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I Missed That Day In School
Posted by: bookmonger on Nov 10, 2009 2:04 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The reason I never got married, had kids, indeed have ever owned a brand new car is that it is as though all of those things were taught the one day I was ill and missed that day in school.

You cannot miss a thing that you never wanted.

Upon reflection the whole Leave It To Beaver/Father Knows Best thing, for me personally, turns my stomach.

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» Kudos to you... Posted by: zigy

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To Breed Or Not To Breed That is the Question
Posted by: philprism on Nov 10, 2009 2:07 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Men have sperm, women have vaginas and ovaries. If we don't have sex the species will die out.

So some simple conclusions I have reached I would like to share:


If you don't want to make babies go in peace. Bonk with protection, masturbate in harmony and dedication. You babies will not be born as you wish, Your genetic identity will play no part in the future of the human race.

If you want a baby and can't have one, may god have mercy on your soul in this life.

For those that want a baby and go ahead and do it; Enjoy the sex, your partner and your babies. Love a lot, often and smile.

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» Churchy & Trite Posted by: terradea42

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X-FUNDIE
Posted by: X-POLYGAMIST WIFE on Nov 10, 2009 2:16 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article should be sent to every polygamist at the YFZ Ranch in Eldorado, Texas, and to every Mormon in Utah.

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I've heard them all
Posted by: maxfrisson on Nov 10, 2009 4:33 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm 57 and happily childless. I was engaged to be married in about 1976-7 to a woman in Portland, OR and she asked how many kids I wanted and I said NONE, she asked why and I said it costs $150,000 to raise a kid to 18 and a Ferrari costs $125,000. I never have seen a kid I liked as well as a 12-cylinder piece of Italian moto Art. She got over the shock, told me she was pregnant and I paid for the abortion. We never married and I bought a 512 a few years later.

I meet guys who seem to think it's a necessary fulfillment of something. I can honestly say that never, ever, in any way, shape, or form has the idea so much as crossed my mind that I might want to be a slave to a child for a sentence of two decades.

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» RE: I've heard them all Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» RE: I've heard them all Posted by: weenie
» RE: I've heard them all Posted by: mimsi
» RE: I've heard them all Posted by: weenie
» RE: I've heard them all Posted by: Cooltruth

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kids
Posted by: Toby on Nov 10, 2009 5:04 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wow! I'm genuinely shocked at the outpouring of thinly disguised selfishness in this article and many of the comments. I feel the deepest pity for those who think a happy life is all about their own comfort and convenience. No matter how such attitudes are masked in PC blather about carbon footprints or schtick about "they'll never call, they'll never write," it reveals an impoverished and self-centered philosophy that places little or no value on love and on the fact that, once you become involved in the life of a child, other considerations pale to insignificance. I have been blessed with four adopted sons - all now pretty much grown into brilliant and beautiful young men. They have been the sunshine and joy of my life. Yes, there have been some difficult passages. Perhaps they would have gotten through them without me and my fatherly advice but that I was there to help them has meant more to me than any of my personal accomplishments. I have had a good and long life and have achieved much - advanced degrees, grand adventures, publication, some influence in certain spheres - but somehow, nothing I have done myself has given me as much pride and pleasure as what those boys have accomplished and knowing that, to the best of my ability, I helped them become what they are - good, caring, decent, happy young men. If you can find other, greater rewards in life, so be it and good luck to you, but as for me, I thank all the gods for putting those kids into my life.

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» you miss the point.. Posted by: zipper696
» RE: you miss the point.. Posted by: jaded
» RE: you miss the point.. Posted by: Just Danj
» RE: you miss the point.. Posted by: Just Danj
» RE: kids Posted by: dirtyspeed
» They are selfish and know it.... Posted by: Jethro2112
» They do know it? Posted by: dirtyspeed
» RE: They do know it? Posted by: jroth420
» RE: They do know it? Posted by: NoKidding
» RE: They do know it? Posted by: dirtyspeed
» RE: kids Posted by: waltermoss
» RE: kids Posted by: 3leggeddub
» RE: kids Posted by: dirtyspeed
» You have a point... Posted by: mjabele
» RE: kids Posted by: Vik
» RE: kids Posted by: Fat Man at the Buffet Line
» RE: kids Posted by: Naumadd

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Loved this
Posted by: yogachick on Nov 10, 2009 5:08 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you for writing this article. I am 38 and so tired of having to answer this question. My sister, who has 2 kids, says I am the smartest person she knows for not having kids-she said its like a religious cult, friends try to convince each other to have kids saying how wonderful it is and there is nothing like it, and then once you are pregnant, they laugh at you. I think the "you're going to be old and lonley" comment is the most insulting because it sounds like they only had kids in order to have someone to fawn over them when they are old.

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» RE: Loved this Posted by: jroth420
» A cult that you can never escape... Posted by: eddie torres

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My Late Wife And I Never Wanted 'Em
Posted by: Eric.Arthur.Blair on Nov 10, 2009 5:16 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And we knew that going into marriage. We married for us, not for progeny. Both of us had had unpleasant childhoods, and didn't feel that the experience had left us with whatever it takes to be good parents.

It turned out to be a good thing. My wife died shortly before what would have been our fifth anniversary. Had we reproduced, there would be a child now entering adolescence, who would barely remember a mother, and who has a single father on disability unable to afford what it takes to raise a child. We married later in life than usual, and I have friends who are younger than me with grandchildren. I shudder to think of the struggles of dealing with a teenager at this time of my life, and am grateful that it didn't happen.

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Since I don't have kids,
Posted by: exvagabond on Nov 10, 2009 5:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...mine won't be fighting yours over jobs, living space and parking, and eventually air and water.

Too many people can multiply, but they can't add.

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» RE: Since I don't have kids, Posted by: veggiegrrrl

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Commendable
Posted by: moloko velocet on Nov 10, 2009 5:49 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've always admired people who had the wisdom, and self awareness to decide against having children. Ironically, these types would, because of their wisdom, probably make great parents.

The problem in this country is that the vast majority fall victim to the "9 silly things". There are plenty of children needing adoption.

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» however.. Posted by: zipper696
» RE: however.. Posted by: Jethro2112

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Kids born today will likely witness the collapse of civilization
Posted by: souffrantfleur on Nov 10, 2009 5:51 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These days, not having kids is the least selfish thing a person can do. Most folks who have kids ultimately do it for one reason- the immortality factor. But now we're in the waning days of a livable ecosystem and beginning of the collapse of our oil-based civilization. Why on earth would I want to punish a new human with such a horrifying life sentence, and for a crime they didn't commit? I'm not having kids because there's not going to be much left for them after our long, selfish carbon party.

And if we do happen to figure out how to fix this giant mess, I'll be pleased that I helped lower the population.

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Population Growth
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac on Nov 10, 2009 5:56 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The growth in population is not as rapid as it once was; people are having smaller families. However, population is still growing exponentially and that is simply unsustainable. No closed environment (like earth) can forever sustain positive exponential growth of any species. In this context, we should all think clearly about the number of children we have.

Still, there is something very appealing about children growing up in a healthy home environment. It is quite understandable that people should want to have children.

On the other hand, the social pressure on people who don't want children to nevertheless have them is confounding. More children is not what this world is crying out for and more children in unhappy homes is certainly not what is needed.

Anyone who feels it important to pressure someone to have children should ask themselves what kind of home such children are apt to have and how loving that parent is apt to be when that parent never really wanted to have children.

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Alternet keep publishing the same article over and over again
Posted by: waltermoss on Nov 10, 2009 6:22 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Alternet Article Templates:

1. I'm selfish and I hate kids.
2. I'm slutty and want you to acknowledge me.
3. Christians are Idiots.
4. Right wingers are r-tards.
5. Substance X will kill you.
6. Marijuana is good for treating ailment X.
7. Cheating is better than monogamy.

It's gotten to the point where I just read the title and diagonally scan the text for key words. The rare gems of really interesting articles are getting even rarer. Oh well.

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» Obviously you would prefer... Posted by: zipper696
» I didn't jump to that conclusion Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey
» And don't forget.... Posted by: moloko velocet
» True in some cases Posted by: Robba29

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Sorry to report...
Posted by: MartianBachelor on Nov 10, 2009 6:33 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...I've never run into even one of these nine things, though I've heard they're present in the general cultural atmosphere.

Maybe it's because I live in a very "red" part of the country, and everyone else is too busy and wrapped up in being religious and having their own (large) families and carting them around in their infernal minivans and monster SUV's to notice or bother.

I don't know, but if they view me as some sort of anomaly they don't ever say anything. Maybe they feel they're more than doing their fair share, so they can tolerate the occasional nonconformist "slacker" (breeding-wise) like me.

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» But you know.. Posted by: zipper696
» Quiver full don'tyou know.. Posted by: Hiroak

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Kids....
Posted by: Spiritgirl on Nov 10, 2009 6:38 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I genuinely appreciated this article, thank you. Although I've added to the carbon foot-print (got kids), it has never really occurred to me that people without kids get harassed by their "friends & family". Of course there were times that I had to ask myself "why did I have kids again?" usually these were the times when the "angels" had sprouted horns & tail, or very innocently blurted out questions or honest answers to questions by adults, who generally weren't prepared for those answers!

Frankly, I'm appalled, by those comments from a few that call childless people selfish. Frankly, they aren't supporting you or the progeny they want you to have! More importantly - those are probably the very people that shouldn't be having kids (think Geoffry Dalhmer) because we see how they turn out!

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Hey Liz
Posted by: praedor on Nov 10, 2009 6:59 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You have a way with words. I love the "basket full of kittens look like Keith Richards" and the "blissful as a cat in a dryer". Hilarious and smooth.

Will you have my baby? Oh...uh...oops? Nevermind.

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I think you've been misinformed.
Posted by: dirtyspeed on Nov 10, 2009 7:11 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I really don't think you would have great kids nor make a good mother. Your general smug and condescending attitude not to mention your apparent selfishness are not good traits of a parent. Personally I am glad you do not have kids. So can I have that cookie now?

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Way too many unloved children
Posted by: ProfBob on Nov 10, 2009 7:21 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The good solution might be, heaven forbid, to license parents when they can show that they are capable of loving, are mentally stable, are financially able, and are of sufficient age. I suggest reading the pertinent sections of books 3 and 5 of the free ebook series on overpopulation, titled ". . .And Gulliver Returns" at http://andgulliverreturns.info
I would also suggest the web sites of Dr. Jack Westman, M.D. a child psychiatrist and Professor Hugh LaFollette, a philosophy professor. Both are found by Googling 'licensing parents'.
It seems that with the world's overpopulation and the increasing lifespans both responsible for global warming, poverty, illegal immigration, and much more--we might give the child who are to be born a chance to fulfill their potentials and live happy and fruitful lives. Too many of the planet's infants don't have such a chance.

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» But who hands out the licences? Posted by: colinmeister

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I never wanted any kids ~ but today I'm the mother of seven
Posted by: vyckie on Nov 10, 2009 7:24 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is because I gave my life to Jesus at age 17 and started living for Him. It no longer mattered what I want or what I thought I could handle ~ it was all about, "What did God intend for me as a woman? What was I created for?"

Christian fundamentalism told me that as a woman, I could never really be fulfilled unless I embraced my "true calling" ~ that of motherhood.

I do not regret having seven children ~ each one is a unique and wonderful individual. But I am actually fairly pissed about the strict fundamentalist "biblical family" teachings which I believed so wholeheartedly that I was willing to risk my life to fulfill.

I'm writing about my journey into the most severe fundamentalist "Quiverfull" lifestyle ~ and how my daughter's attempted suicide forced me to wake up and rethink it all. I am no longer submitting my womb for God's purposes ~ I am no longer ordering my life according to the sacred text of an ancient patriarchal society ~ I am No Longer Quivering.

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Childfree and happy!
Posted by: NoKidding on Nov 10, 2009 7:29 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a forty-five yr. old woman who knew at about age eight(!) that she didn't want kids. I just knew in my soul. Thank you for this article, I posted it on my Childfree forum. It is frustrating sometimes living in a world of consumerism and conformity, but I have stuck to my convictions and am all the happier for it....really people, we have choices when it comes to family planning!

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» RE: Childfree and happy! Posted by: Sushi
» RE: Childfree and happy! Posted by: NoKidding
» RE: Childfree and happy! Posted by: flirt

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The Most Important Paragraph in the Whole Piece:
Posted by: Todd on Nov 10, 2009 7:53 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Overpopulation is the greatest threat to our environment, according to a recent survey of professors at State University of New York College of Environmental Science and Forestry. In a story in Science Daily, systems ecologist Charles Hall called it "the only problem."

Mr. Hall is correct. It took 100,000 years for modern humans to reach a population of 1.6 billion in 1900. It took just over 100 years to more than quadruple that number to 6.7 billion.

Faced with these facts, one has to question: Of what value to the earth is a breeding heterosexual human couple? Biologically speaking, one could argue that the partial extinction of 6 billion humans could only be a benefit.

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Happy IN SPITE OF not having kids
Posted by: TimV on Nov 10, 2009 8:05 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Raising kids is a superficial pain in the ass, but I can see that having kids is a source of deep happiness. - Deep happiness clearly outweighs superficial pain-in-the-ass- experiences. Therefore, it is generally in people's self-interest to have kids (I'm childless due to marrying late in life.)
Volunatry childlessness is instead a miscalculation of the needs of oneself and/or others, unless there are overriding reasons not to have kids. Obviously, childless people can serve humanity in ways other than child-rearing.

Since children are generally a great benefit to their parents, there is no reason to down childless people (and I don't think any negativity should be aimed at "Octomom" either.) Here are some answers to some chiding I received over not having kids:

When someone asked "didn't you want to have kids" I said "That's one possible explanation among other possible explanations."

A parent once said "you're lucky" for not having kids, so I said "you don't really mean that, do you?"

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» A great benefit? Show me the money. Posted by: eddie torres

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thankful
Posted by: sherry on Nov 10, 2009 8:06 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I consider my very early decision not to have children the best decision of my life.

I've made some other decisions that have not worked out so well, including marriage to a man who by no stretch of the imagination would have made a good father. Childbearing requires a courage, an ego that one's genetic material is worth replicating, or a blind eye to the realities of life today that I didn't have. About once a week I get this strange dread, as though I've escaped something that would have destroyed me. Not having children takes work and mindfulness ---- I have several friends with grown children (who even past the age of 40 are way too dependent on Mama) who tell me frankly they wish they had made my choice. Ironically, I happen to know they made no choice ---- they found themselves pregnant and went along for the ride.

Sorry to bring up a sore topic, but behind the questions about why I haven't had children is sometimes more than a hint of racism or elitism----mentions of our browning population or the weakening gene pool (sick stuff). My former sister-in-law, like the former Quiverfull, above, fell complete victim of that attitude in one of the right-wing neo-Nazi churches in Missouri. She was expected to produce Aryans on demand ---- followed by refusal of any medical attention for the kids or public education. They lived in poverty and abuse ---- after my divorce I didn't find out if she ever escaped.

So my answer to "why didn't you have children" is "I worked hard at it."

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Re Nr. 4
Posted by: CorineJ on Nov 10, 2009 8:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My husband and I _are_ a family, thank you very much.

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Just more proof that human beings say & do stupid things.....
Posted by: Ontic on Nov 10, 2009 8:16 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is the not only subject where people are besieged with idiotic and inane comments. Life experience shows us that everyone will have to defend their live choices to people who have the need to judge. I know many parents who are the constant recipients of equally boorish and judgmental comments. You are not alone in your dismay of having to defend your life. You are not alone in your coming in contact with uncouth people.

Newsflash: EVERYONE GETS JUDGED BY OTHERS !!!


Fat, thin, skin tone, illness, disability, hair color/style, dietary choices/restrictions, clothing, job, political beliefs, religious beliefs, age, the car you drive, too many kids, not enough kids, how you are raising your kids, pets, how you are raising your pets, hobbies, sexual orientation, vocabulary, carbon foot print, the stores you shop at, the list is endless people.

Clearly the empathy aspect of the evolution of our species is still in the infancy stage.
May I suggest an article of why people judge?

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A List Of My Own
Posted by: QQOblivion on Nov 10, 2009 8:17 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nobody at all asks me why I don't have kids. That is because I am a nonconformist and ugly. Everyone I know is RELIEVED I don't have kids!

Why I don't want to have kids (I was just thinking about this yesterday):
1) I'm ugly.
2) I am crazy.
3) I don't have a job.
4) I have a dirty house.
5) I would fear, to the point of insanity, my kids getting sick or killed.
6) I don't want to pass on my genes.
7) I don't want to contribute to overpopulation or climate-change.
8) I prefer to contribute to the world in other ways.
9) I can't get a date, let alone married.

And since I am not exactly a party-animal, I find claims that childless-people (including me) are "selfish" to be absolutely ludicrous. Maybe people who HAVE kids (without adopting) are the truly selfish ones (if anyone is selfish because of their views on having kids, anyway)!

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» 3 more Posted by: QQOblivion
» You forgot 10) Posted by: zigy

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Idiocracy
Posted by: dirtyspeed on Nov 10, 2009 8:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://tinyurl.com/9mzz9s

If you don't make babies, others will.

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» RE: Idiocracy Posted by: teddy
» RE: Idiocracy Posted by: liz-at-blackrose

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Sad
Posted by: dawnsutro@hotmail.com on Nov 10, 2009 9:00 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm sad that you chose to serve the created rather than the Creator ! Your idealogy won't be past on to your offspring though. How ironic !

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» RE: Sad Posted by: CorineJ
» RE: Sad Posted by: Outsidetheboxlookingin
» RE: Sad Posted by: tvaspen

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I think
Posted by: Archie1954 on Nov 10, 2009 9:06 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
a parent gets out of any relationship with his of her children what they put into it. A woman I know who is now a grandmother at 61 years of age but who looks and acts 20 years younger (she was in the cosmetics industry) says that her three grandchildren have a normal grandmother (her son in law's parents) and her. She says that she is different as she teaches the kids the important things in life, "how to order sushi and how to make a good martini". She has taken to the role with gusto and having been a single mother for many years she has absolutely no regrets. My two sons are our pride and joy and are dedicated to their parents. Even amongst their busy academic, business and social lives we are blessed with their company on a regular basis. I certainly wouldn't change that for anything.

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Perfect Timing
Posted by: exileinla on Nov 10, 2009 9:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article really resonates with me. My mother and grandmother both had kids at the age of 21 with their high school sweethearts turned husbands, followed by divorce and extreme financial hardship as a single mother while getting an education to be a breadwinner.

I am 33.5 and love children but feel that it is a bigger decision to decide to have children yourself than not to have children. I recently made the decision that I would rather go back to school to get a professional degree in healthcare, leading to a less stressful lifestyle and better career security with benefits, maternity leave and vacation time than give in to the clock and have kids now while my husband and I struggle to keep our small business going in this economy.

If I lived in a Scandanavian country where all kids get healthcare and a great education from nursery school on plus great maternity leave and other government support, I would have without a doubt have had kids by now. These days the stakes the stakes in the US are really high. If you are unlucky and you get sick or lose your job there is no safety net. You face the real risk of homelessness and bankruptcy, and your kids are fodder for the prison / military industrial complex. Once you have kids you have a lot less options when it comes to navigating our dangerous world.

I know that by choosing to go back to school before having children I might not be able to have children ever. I am just trying to play the best game with the hand I have been dealt.

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Excellent choice
Posted by: jaded on Nov 10, 2009 9:21 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People who have nothing to give a child, should NEVER be parents, so I commend the posters on here who give their green, overpopulation, and other excuses as to why they do not want or have children. Those excuses are pretty weak, but the bottom line is that they made the right choice for them and for a child. They have nothing to give them. There are far too many examples of people who would rather just live for themselves, abusing or neglecting children that were put in their lives. Everything is not for everyone.

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» RE: xcellent choice Posted by: Outsidetheboxlookingin
» RE: xcellent choice Posted by: jaded
» you can keep the backhanded compliments Posted by: inverse_agonist

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I find it odd...
Posted by: james108 on Nov 10, 2009 9:37 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... that anyone would be trying to convince you to have kids, unless it was your mother or other half, in which case they have their right to ask and own desires for kids or grandkids, and it's still up to you...

About the only time I would be trying to convince someone of how good a parent they would be is if I think they would be, and they are subtly or not so subtly asking my opinion, by bringing it up themselves.

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» RE: I find completely agree! Posted by: wwittman
» RE: I find completely agree! Posted by: katcourt79

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A Tenth Comment
Posted by: mdsfilm on Nov 10, 2009 10:29 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is one more comment we received when people found out we (gasp!) had no children: "have you had your (husband/wife) looked at to see what's wrong? Maybe they can be fixed." Class is class, no matter how low.

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Carbon foot print bull
Posted by: linecrosser on Nov 10, 2009 12:02 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Consider, the carbon foot print of any third world human. Next to none. No more than an elephant or polar bear. It's pretty much a even trade. Now consider, the carbon foot print of any of the rich elite class. More than one home, with the power on just to maintain a proper humidity level so all the electronics will work when and if they visit this year. Several different types of transportation at their beck and call, none of which will be considered fuel efficient. One rich family consumes more and creates a larger footprint than a couple of tribes living like the did thousands of years ago. I have never understood the desire to know my family tree or to create a legacy. To me it devalues me as an individual and cripples future generation with a built in excuse for failure or the opposite a predetermined position of power that is undeserved (the Bush family) I have to adult children, both of whom I love and would die for. What I gave to them, was a dose of reality. Your dad's disabled and can't provide you with the things you want, so you'll have to get them thru your own efforts. I also told them that under no circumstances do I ever want to become a grand parent. So far they have been any parents dream.They have become accomplished in all their endeavors. Stayed out of debt, and can think critically in any situation. They see what is really going on in this f-up time and have chosen to remain childless. Life can be full with or without breeding.

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"MIND YOUR OWN BUSNINESS"
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Nov 10, 2009 12:46 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is the correct response to such a personal nature. Some may thinks it's rude, but it's not as rude as asking the qyestion in the first place. ANNA

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» RE: "MIND YOUR OWN BUSNINESS" Posted by: Basenjis

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I can't say much about the rest of the world
Posted by: willymack on Nov 10, 2009 12:56 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Except to say it's much more crowded in most places outside the USA.
In this country there are those who, in my opinion, shouldn't reproduce at all. Ever.
Of course, those people have way more kids than the rest, and those kids will grow up to be just as stupid, ignorant, hateful and intolerant as their parents.

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Aside from
Posted by: Robba29 on Nov 10, 2009 1:00 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
your in-laws (if you have them) or a nosy neighbor, no one gives two shits whether you decide to have kids or not. Why do these articles keep popping up? Seriously, are you that narcissistic--oh, wait, probably because you have chosen to live a life that is all about you and not somebody else. Oops, did that slip out. How about Alternet posts an article titled, "The 10 Stupidest Things People Who Don't Want Kids Keep Complaining About Without Any F***ing Reason". The majority of people have kids--even gay/lesbian partners in committed (or, hell, even single)relationships have kids because there is something inherent in most of us that drives us to that. Given that everything is a spectrum, of course there would be those who don't want them, but you are not the majority. And you are not a targeted, disenfranchised, persecuted, denied rights, denied personhood, minority. You are selfish, period. You want everything to be about YOU. Get a life.

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Who is really the selfish one here?
Posted by: wireup on Nov 10, 2009 1:26 PM   
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One of the above posters accused those of us who don't want children as being selfish! This sort of statement has ALWAYS mystified me. WHAT exactly is selfish about not wanting to pollute the planet with more people?

Aren't there enough people on the planet already?

Is it even conceivable that our species will die out (given, of course, that we don't do ourselves in) because some of us prefer NOT to have children?

What kind of fuzzy mindless thinking is this anyway?

According to dictionary.com, one of the definitions for selfishness is:

"self-interested, self-seeking, egoistic; illiberal, parsimonious, stingy."

What is the desire to perpetuate one's self if not SELF-INTERESTED, SELF-SEEKING, EGOISTIC.

Personally, I have NEVER regretted not having children. Given what's going on now in this world, I think that NOT having children was the sanest possible decision. If you truly love your children, why would you want to subject them to the possibility of their demise in their lifetime due to lack of food or water or the very real possibility of an end to life on earth because of climate change. Is this how you love your children?

And, please, save the crap about being alone when you're older. This is NO reason to have children!!!

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» I called you selfish Posted by: Robba29
» RE: Go Robba! Posted by: Ontic

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There's really only ONE thing to say
Posted by: Kym525 on Nov 10, 2009 1:33 PM   
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and that is...

"Are you gonna raise and pay for it for me?"

People should mind their own damn business and do better for the children who are already here (i.e. better health care, education and housing).

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» Well said... Posted by: zigy
» Love the past, hate the future Posted by: eddie torres

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Very thoughtful article, Ms. Langley.
Posted by: zigy on Nov 10, 2009 1:48 PM   
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As a 52 year old male with no children, I have much sympathy for your outlook on this issue. I think many so-called "adults" have children for the most well, childish reasons: they want to flatter their own ego with someone who is just like them (and their oh so wonderful spouse). It never crosses their mind that THEIR wonderful little "bundle of joy" might grow up to be a psycopath or a serial-killer, or some lazy, dim-witted slob who can't do anything more than work in a gas station as an adult. (Not that there is anything wrong, per se in this kind of work, it would just be kind of disapointing if my kid aspired to this.)

It was the acclaimed linguist Steven Pinker who said that (and I paraphrase)from the moment of conception a child is at war with its mother for scarce resources;then once born, that war extends to the mother's attention. Who needs it! I'm an introvert and I fear that if I had one of those fussy, screaming infants I would either loose my mind or...well, enough said.

Anyway, if one really wants to nurture a child (and more power to those who do, you can have it)you can always adopt. Lord knows, there are plenty of unwanted children out there....

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I remember that...
Posted by: stinkypoot on Nov 10, 2009 4:22 PM   
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I used to hate when people said those things to me. I did wind up having a child (oops!) and it transformed my life and I am very glad. But I do remember what it felt like. I, for one, do not see people that way. My sister seems like she'll choose never to have children. She's a planetary geophysicist and doesn't have the time or inclination. She's happy being an aunt. I can barely remember what it was like not to be a daddy and I'm happy too.
I'm glad you made the right decision for you and I'm glad you are happy. After all, if there is one thing humanity could stand to do less of, it's breeding! And this country in particular does not need more unwanted children.
To each their own, I say, and with healthy respect.

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Dp onto others
Posted by: vertical on Nov 10, 2009 5:49 PM   
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I am fifty and I have lost at least three women I loved because I did not want children (It is a dealbreaker to a lot of women). And the reason I chose not to have children is because I try to live by the adage "Do onto thers as you would want done onto you." Here is the deal, the Earth could be an Eden at 3 to 4 billion, and it is in bad shape at today's 6.7 billion, and it will be a living Hell at 9 to 10 billion. I do not want a child of mine living in that Hell! If a good plague came along, and I was a survivor then maybe I would want a child because then they might have a chance at a good life.

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» Exactly... Posted by: veggiegrrrl

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They Think You'll Want Kids Once They Have Kids
Posted by: MJ Fields on Nov 10, 2009 6:26 PM   
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My best friend was sure I'd change my mind and want a baby of my own once she had hers. I do love her daughter, but she just couldn't believe it when I didn't catch babyfever. I think some parents take it as a personal offense when their friends are childless by choice; like they can't imagine why we wouldn't want what they have. Or maybe misery loves company.

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Yes, I am selfish
Posted by: ladyoracle on Nov 10, 2009 9:23 PM   
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Yes, I am selfish perhaps. But that's not a label reserved only for the childess by choice. How many mothers have accused themselves or been accused of being selfish? I've got a good friend who is judged as selfish by the other mothers in her daughter's playgroup because my friend likes to dress up and go on a girl's night out twice a month. Selfish indeed! The people who are doling out the selfish label need to take a hard look at themselves and see if in fact they are not jealous of anyone, parents or non-parents, who spend time on themselves and cultivate a self that isn't enmeshed with child rearing. If by selfish you mean that I take Socrates seriously when he says "Know thyself," then I am certainly quite selfish. I am selfish enough to look at what I am willing to do and what I truly want and then seek it out and not just do anything from buying a toothpaste or taking out a mortgage to yes, having a child, just because I am told by others that it will make me happy or is the best thing or right thing to do. What is best, right, and happiness-conducive happens not to be motherhood for me. The women in my condo think I am selfish, and that is fine, because I think they are petty and jealous of me, like they are toward friend who is a mother, but isn't the "right kind" by their cultish standards. I just feel sorry for their children!

People often tell me I would be a great mother because I am a good cook and I am a supportive friend, but just because my hypothetical child would be well-fed doesn't mean shit, and I am supportive because I believe the world is a place full of sadness and unfulfilled expectations, disappointment, and violence--therefore I pity all of us humans who are stuck in this existence and work to do what I can to help my peers make the most of it and not get bogged down in the black tar of life. But I certainly would never bring a person into this life and be responsible for subjecting them to sorrow.

Adoption, however, is a fine idea that I might pursue when the time is right. That way I am not responsible for the fact of someone's existence, but I could devote myself to helping them make the best of it.

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