…That the perfect vagina does not require her to lift up her gut in order to access?

Priorities people.

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Certainly, women should not be expected to have their genitals altered to conform to the desires of others. Surgeries like this, to remove healthy, natural tissue, unnecessarily risk serious complications, possibly including death, and waste money better used for other things.

I've also heard male circumcision referred to (and promoted) as the "porn cock." The person who used that phrase (and all advocates of non-religious, medically unnecessary circumcision) was basically advocating that normal, healthy tissue be cut off to meet the expectation/aesthetic of others, with a small but non-zero risk of death or loss of the penis.

Healthy genitals should be left alone. Think of what this money and these doctors' time could do if applied to more useful things.

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Certainly, women should not be expected to have their genitals altered to conform to the desires of others. Surgeries like this, to remove healthy, natural tissue, unnecessarily risk serious complications, possibly including death, and waste money better used for other things.

I've also heard male circumcision referred to (and promoted) as the "porn cock." The person who used that phrase (and all advocates of non-religious, medically unnecessary circumcision) was basically advocating that normal, healthy tissue be cut off to meet the expectation/aesthetic of others, with a small but non-zero risk of death or loss of the penis.

Healthy genitals should be left alone. Think of what this money and these doctors' time could do if applied to more useful things.

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I guess when a society is so caught up in Enhancements, life has become somewhat convoluted.

When will people start moving back to a simpler, healthier lifestyle?

I feel sorry for the next generation growing up in this mad world. Even if you rid yourself of many of the external influences...the kids need to be "socialized!"...meaning they will be indoctrinated one way or the other.

Take a mental fast! Eat more whole foods, less ingredients, more life!

Blessings to all on the journey!

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We are so appalled by tribal peoples doing it, but it is okay if it costs $15K done by an American plastic surgeon??? Yeccch. What the hell are we coming to?!

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I'm a woman, and I just snapped. I'm tired of defending my poor, victimized sisters with phrases like "women should not be expected/forced/whatever to...".

Women, grow a brain and a spine.

A lazy, ignorant person looking for a quick fix so she can stay lazy and ignorant, a person who puts all her value into her looks (and then cries that she's being objectified), a person who continuously expects everyone *else* to solve her own problems and then complains of victimization when people take advantage of her laziness, cupidity and lack of introspection, gets no sympathy from me any more. Man, woman or anything in between.

A little advice for otherwise normal people seeking genital surgery:

1) TAKE TIME to learn your body and what gives you pleasure. Then communicate with your partner and ask for it. Cutting off half your nerves will NOT make sex feel better (duh), unless you're so narcissistic, you orgasm from thinking about your new, improved body alone.

2) Kegels, Kegels, Kegels. Exercise your vaginal muscles and both you and your partner will be MUCH happier. After a little while, the difference in the level of pleasure is astonishing.

3) Learn to please your partner. Actually paying attention to your partner's body and their pleasure can be very hot - for both of you. You worry about the length of your labia? After you give him an Earth-shattering orgasm, and help him to give you one too, he *will* be back for more even if you have a third ear on the back of your head.

Yeah, I know - the 1, 2 and 3 are something that you actually have to *work* on by yourself. So much easier to just dump a bunch of money on someone to make you prettier/younger/more attractive/happier... Well, tough luck.

Sheesh.

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Where in the world do females draw these fashionable excising fads from. Here we have western women voluntary submitting and paying for a good old fashioned neo cultural genital mutilation, while condemning the less affluent world for their traditional poor persons version.
What defines the perfect mutilated pussy in the great gynocopian order. This evergrowing self indulgent hubris reflects a more serious problem, yet I can't quite put my finger on what that is. I suppose we can extend the philosophy of it's my body and I can choose to do with it or any of it's product as I please. If you are poor or don't have it done with high priced surgery, it is morally a crime. I look forward to hearing of back street labic mutilation shops springing up with abandon. While female devotees of high fashion are turning up at hospitals to unbotch the job. We should of course blame males for forcing females to conform to patriarchal desires of someones idea of what constitutes the perfect puss.

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"boob jobs", which are pretty stupid. Guess you can't protect people from their own idiocy.

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As a young girl, I was consumed with thoughts of cutting off my labia myself. It was so large that I couldn't wear a bathing suit without it falling out the leg holes. I couldn't ride a bicycle without getting seriously bruised. When I became an adult, I had to deal with mean comments like "Did you used to be a guy?" Sex was difficult since my labia would wrap around the penis and prevent entry. I had the "pie slice" type surgery. My surgeon said I had the 2nd largest labia he had ever seen. After surgery I had full nerve sensation, and sex has never been better. I can wear skimpy bathing suits without worry of offending others. And I can ride a bike and have sex without pain or issues. AND YOU STUPID WOMEN WANT TO PREVENT OTHERS FROM THIS RELIEF? You are all nothing more than ivory tower idiots dictating to the ignorant masses of women who you think are too stupid to decide how to manage their own bodies. Shame on you!

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...from those in search of perfection in their mind's eye, I have to chip in there a lesson from the pro-choice movement: her vulva, her body, her choice, ultimately.

The decision is betwixt her and her doctor, none of your conservative nanny-stating is necessary.

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Alternet, you already ran a "designer vaginas" article. Maybe it's time for Designer Scrota.

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that is a sad appraisal of self.

We're always obsessed w/the outside, never looking at how cool and beautiful we are on the inside. You can thank the cosmetic/fashion industry of myths for giving low self-esteem a Lie that says how you can fix it from the outside only - that's a cheap, shallow Lie.

Vote w/your Wallet.

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I've put this post in the "Ya Gotta Be Kiddin"
file. I certainly hope that one of these loving throw away money people does not try to claim this from the insurance company or try to get it included in the health care revisions now being contemplated.

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It is a procedure on a par with giving proprofol to a person outside of an OR or ICU.

Sue the bastards performing these surgeries and take their licenses.

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This falls into the category of "the Pursuit of Happiness". It is in the Constitution.
If women choose to do it, who are you to criticize them? Just where do you get off, you insufferable know-it-all?
Shut your smug, elitist, condescending mouth and leave these women alone?

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IS OWWWWWWWWW!!!

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Really, we don't.

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Who'd a thunk it? Only in America, eh?

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...it would be so much better. Porn that would let women be women....and not the anti-pubic hair, plastic looking barbie dolls that are a dime a dozen.

I don't get it.

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"After careful measurement of 50 volunteers ages 18 and 50, these authors report "wide variation in all parameters assessed," with the width of the labia minora varying from 7 to 50 centimeters in width."

Somehow I really don't think it falls within normal variability to have labia minora that are about EIGHTEEN INCHES WIDE. (50cm?)

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and one night we both got really drunk, went home and I finally looked on her without underpants, and I saw that her labia minora were hypertrophied, --

why, um, yes, I'd close up shop, walk out of the room immediately and never come back. So unsightly!

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Kind of a confusing article, I think you are trying to inform us about these enhancement surgeries, OK, fair enough, but you also seem to have an anti porn agenda which throws your article out of balance. It's like 2 articles in one. Let me just tell you that there is no "porn vulva" just like there are no "porn breasts" or "porn bodies." In porn everything goes, all shapes, all types, in fact, if you knew anything about porn you would know that it is very much "to each their own" everyone has their own tastes and preferences, and they are as diverse as any other human tastes. There is porn geared towards every kind of body, size, race, gender, species, whatever..Again, ALternet fails on the editing when it comes to sex...and like I always say, leave the sex related articles out, they don't seem to be working fo you

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I like big labia. Why in the world would you want to cut something so gorgeous off?

O.K. That's just one man's opinion that probably no one wanted to hear.

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THERE'S NO LIMIT TO A WOMAN'S NARCISSISM


and i use the term "woman" very loosely here....(really they aren't women, they are childish spoiled brats that never grew up)

a "woman" is a confident wise human being.....who projects an air of respect. no one respects a woman whose only friend/enemy is the mirror.

when women finally wake up from their narcissistic sociopathy, they'll find themselves and find REAL men again.

until then? deal with your empty heads, empty hearts, empty souls and empty lives

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Very strange indeed.

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Can't wait till all the women my age (31) look like Joan Rivers when they are 50. Looking like a plastic doll does not make you look good. If this keeps up men will be buying plastic women from the porn shop because it will be the same sensation as having sex with a real woman.

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When I was younger I used to look at a LITTLE porn on-line. The vulvas in that porn ranged all over the place in shape, color, etc.
There didn't seem to used to be an "ideal".

I find it distressing that women feel they need to undergo surgery to obtain the "perfect" breasts, for instance. But whose idea of perfect is it!!!???

As for vulvas, it used to be that our society didn't have a vision of what was perfect, at least as far as I knew.
Big, little, red, pink, brown, plaid, hairy, bald. No guy really cares. Or at least they didn't used to care. Now that it has been ARBITRARILY deemed what is "perfect", then that is the kind of vulva women are going to want to get for themselves, the dangers and complications of the surgery be damned.
Men can do their part to thwart this madness by not pressuring their women to change themselves (in any way, actually). Let your women know that they are beautiful as they are. Because they probably are.

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the amazing thing to me (I am a retired physician) is that plastic surgeons, who have perhaps the lengthiest and most demanding residency training of any medical specialists, seem to be all to often ethically challenged when it comes to private practice. How else can one explain the gross excess of cosmetic proceedures in the case of Michael Jackson? Now comes labioplasty, which may well be a marketing tool conceived by practicing plastic surgeons to bolster their practice income. Plastic surgeons are trained to take care of the most severe burns and cosmetic injuries, and instead they end up trimming lady lips.

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No more camel toe!

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"Previous work has defined the labia minora as hypertrophic [enlarged or overgrown] … if the maximum distance from the base to edge was [greater than] 4 centimeters." After careful measurement of 50 volunteers ages 18 and 50, these authors report "wide variation in all parameters assessed," with the width of the labia minora varying from 7 to 50 centimeters in width.

WTF???? For real? 50 cm is almost 20", Jeez, a skinny guy could fall in!!! Gotta nail a 2"x 4" to his tiny ass!

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OK, this article is another alternet cut & paste piece of pseudo-jounalism. I enjoy some of the content on A-net, but when it comes to sex & sexuality the articles are usually sub-par. Take this excerpt for example...

Houston, a popular porn star and strip club dancer, appeared on Stern's show and talked about reducing her labia to look better on film. Carlin Ross, of www.dodsonandross.com remembers how Stern milked the topic.

"He could see that the porn stars were good for ratings, and they would bring their labia trophies cast in clear resin like an award and auction them off on Ebay."


Not accurate... I watched the episode and Houston (who started out as an attractive woman & gradually destroyed her personal appearance through surgery- collagen lip injections, breast augmentation, labiaplasty etc...) told howard that she was planning on having her labia cast in order to auction them off on ebay. Sure it's a twisted idea but the article makes it seem like Howard encouraged this when in fact he ridiculed the idea when she brought it up.

Look folks, humans are demented creatures- always have been, always will be. Do what works for you and try not to be influenced by the pop-culture freakshow that is going on all around you. Be yourself, by yourself and don't try and make sense out of nonsense- it's a complete waste of time.

And ladies, unless your labia is as long as your forearm- just enjoy what you've got.

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It's amazing to me having been a person who tried for many years to find a mate and then realized I was bisexual. I've been with many women and all their "hoo ha's" (I prefer kuchi) are different. Therein lies their beauty. All the different ways of being women.

Anyway, genital mutilation when it occurs in Africa causes one reaction while in America it causes quite another. The differences are many.

In Africa, when a girl comes of age a few cultures require female circumcision or infibulation it is sometimes called. This is done in ceremony with tribal leaders and mentors generally. It is certainly misunderstood and viewed as a horrible event in this child's life by Americans who are aware of its existence. We go on and on about how horrible it is for the children and how unsanitary it is.

Not a peep from anyone regarding the willingness on the parts of some American women to mutilate their own private parts. The fact that it is difficult to impossible to get real numbers on cases gone wrong strongly indicates to me that there is something wrong. These people are record centric, look anywhere else you'll find records and data coming out every hole. When you find this distinct lack of data it automatically makes me suspicious.

The bottom line here is that we are being homogenized into autodomesticated meat puppets.

I know this guy that had a book of women's genitals. It was just picture after picture of vagina's. I really liked it because having had so many different women I really do have an appreciation for the physical beauty of the human female... in all their various forms. So, I was a person who through my various interactions with women over the years who kind of already got it. I'm not at all happy about the idea that all women might look alike some day...

Here is my advice to women regarding their kuchi's: Yoga. There are many exercises which will strengthen the pelvic floor muscles. This will tighten your kuchi and make sex more pleasurable more certainly across the board for more women and their partners than any surgery can ever do. Short of hardwiring the brain with a button that you press to stimulate the pleasure centers of your brain (right around the corner I'm sure, remember the cocaine button?) yoga will remain the most effective method of "improving" the female anatomy. And no, it won't change the appearance of your vagina, it will just be tighter and give you and your partner more pleasure because of that.

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linked text

Before & after pics! Thinking inside the box, these pics show twat happens. Sorry I cunt help myself.

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One picture describes a thousand words...........

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.

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For approximately 50 years I have been committed to the struggle for liberation, equality and justice for all.

Now, everywhere one turns, one sees and reads evidences like those presented and dealt with in this article. Men and women alike have accepted themselves as Objects for Others, and build and design their lives around this acceptance.

And when one is an Object for Others one is not free, one is not equal, and one is not just.

And yet, despite the overwhelming force and incessant pressures to accept such a society, I'll remain steadfastedly and unreservedly committed to the struggle, as far as ever these days, to liberation, equality and justice for all.

That a human would alter their physiology to satisfy a System is a most dismal, un-welcome and unacceptable state of affairs.

Whatever all 300 million of us are, we are not a society I would care to be part of.

Despite immense advances and gains for a great many sectors of our population, we have arrived to being this? Words can only fail, in advance.

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disturbing. Are we really that concerned with how our vagina looks? Geeze I've either become extremely old or extremely odd that articles like this are meaningless. The only reason I commented is because I'm stupefied that this is even an issue. I could see where one might care, if we walked around in crotchless pants, but really how many people will even see it in your lifetime that it would be worth altering?

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Dear Women of the Earth,

Some of you already know this, please don't take this as patronizing, just hear this as an affirmation of what you already know.

You are all absolutely gorgeous. I've never encountered a truly "ugly" woman in my forty+ years, despite my own "preferences" for certain external and internal features--the reality is if our hearts or thrill/lust fit, no such "preference" actually matters in the end. As there are boatloads of men around, I cannot imagine that to someone you're not absolutely beyond hot. It's a subjective thing that works both ways, for a reason: so that people find happiness and pleasure with each other, some with many, some with a few.

To this topic, I've never met a vulva I didn't think was drop-dead amazing and utterly fascinating. The variety is exhilarating and I'm happy to make it work for you so you spend some time amongst the stars. It's a fairly safe bet most men are like-minded: that part of your body is the most gorgeous thing we've ever seen and we just wanna make you sing. If a man is what you prefer or are drawn to, just be with the dude(s) who adore(s) every part of you. Just like we tell our brothers, more and more, unless you have to for genuine health reasons, please don't cut that stuff. Certainly don't do that for us. Trust a Bear, most straight dudes, if not all of us, are totally stoked by whatever you got and we're just damned thrilled you even let us get down with you in the first place. It's all good, my sisters.

Unconditionally loving all of you,
Da-aging-Bear.

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I find it interesting that women are fixated on "perfecting" their physical attributes – the perfect clitoris, the perfect pubic hair sculpting, the perfect breasts – but at the same time paying absolutely NO attention to learning how to be SENSUAL – how to think sensual, how to act sensual, how to feel sensual. As usual in our image-obsessed country, it is all about the appearance, not the substance.

In the 1970's, between marriages, I dated a lot of women. All of them were sexual; that is, they would go to bed and act to a degree the role of being sexually free. But, out of all those women, I can count on less than the fingers of one hand the ones who could be sensual – and, believe me, with those two or three, breasts, weight, clitoris, whatever, NONE of that mattered. Those two or three women created by far the most satisfying and memorable sexual experiences – and they didn't need a plastic surgeon to do it.

Remember, women; the most powerful sexual organ is the one between your ... ears.

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Hasn't anyone heard of the virtues of biodiversity???

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These posts would have made us all quite wealthy! - Even at half scale!

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It's appalling when tribal people do it because the girl (who is really barely older than a child) isn't given the choice.

So...while choosing to do something like this may be grotesque and ridiculous, if it's an informed choice then it's really not anyone else's business.

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>Not a peep from anyone regarding the willingness on the parts of some American women to mutilate their own private parts.

This is the key here: willingness to do this to *their own* parts.

Granted, there's a lot of propaganda here, and a lot of brainwashing, but no one is holding these women down and doing this to them without their consent (and in unsterile conditions with no anesthesia).

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...who's really looking?
They just feel really good.
That's all that matters.

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I mean... how much difference are we talking about, here?

But seriously, here in Colorado, Vox Feminista took up the subject of LVR (Laser Vaginal Rejuvenation) a few years ago... I think that may have been the funniest skit I have ever seen! Vox Rocks!

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Meat Curtains for nothing...

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Otherwise, I would never have noticed it, but I'm wondering now how many people, people who heard me say at St. Johns Episcopal Church in Mason City, Iowa that day in 1969 that this would one day come about, are thinking of me whenever they hear of this sort of thing. Everyone ridiculed what I was saying then - we were talking about "feminism," "liberated women," and a prospective nation governed by the kind.

I guess no one is scornful or laughing now, and I trust the effects of "womens liberation" are now sufficiently evident that I will not be so ridiculed again. Except for those demented by their ideological urges, that is.

Anyway, thanks, Jay, for the "heads-up" (and the good laugh).

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50 centimeters! that's like 20inches O_0! my...

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has flaps on her vagina like a P-38...and I love them. She never fails to orgasm and any time we want we can have a simultaneous experience. When I first met her she thought that her "lips" down there were abnormally large, but I convinced her otherwise. Although, they are good sized, they are filled to the brim with nerves and create a sensory zone.

To chop off these lips like they were pit bull's ears would be a shame, sin and stupid...and ucantcurestupid.

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Women may start being as obsessed with whether their genitals are "good enough" as men are! And gee whiz, we don't need that!

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Practically every man I know complains that he doesn't get enough sexual interest from his partner IF he's lucky enough to have one.

That's men rich and poor, old and young. All sizes.

These women are mutilating themselves for a function they probably will not exercise.

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The young women doing this will themselves be shocked when biotech advances, and their daughters go for prehensile genitalia with conscious flavor control.

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...except for purely scientific reasons I guess.

I went to he web sites listed for scientific reasons also.

Although I have not met a vagina I have not liked, I will say that after visiting the sites I would have to defer to the women that may be experiencing pain from some of the situations I never realized existed. They looked like they would be painful to me anyway!

Other than that, I think women may be overreacting to what they think men think is attractive. For me its the person attached to the vagina that ultimately made her sexy or attractive...but what do I know.

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M2TS Converter

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surgically implanted on my penis. that way i can see everything! can i get my butt hole made the shape of a gingerbread man along with that?

face it, we are getting retardeder and retardeder. or is that more retardeder?

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It is sad that women should be made to feel ashamed of their bodies, and it would be wonderful if everyone could be able to enjoy their sexuality without resorting to surgery.

That said, if someone wants to have this surgery, it's her choice. I personally think it's a waste of time, but everyone has her reasons. So I'm not going to judge.

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"Previous work has defined the labia minora as hypertrophic [enlarged or overgrown] … if the maximum distance from the base to edge was [greater than] 4 centimeters." After careful measurement of 50 volunteers ages 18 and 50, these authors report "wide variation in all parameters assessed," with the width of the labia minora varying from 7 to 50 centimeters in width."




Ummm....... 50 CENTIMETERS is 19.7 INCHES. I would dare say that 19.7 inch labia are NOT normal, at least not on this planet....

As a guy, I think that unless a woman is doing it for medical reasons, she is really missing the point. How it feels, what you do with it, and how often we get to interact with it matters a WHOLE lot more than how it looks. :P

Every woman I have ever been with is different. I have preferences, sure, but after you've begun the act, you can't see it anyhow, so what's the point?

If you really want to make it more attractive, save yourself $15k, buy an inexpensive electric trimmer and trim it down a little to get rid of the buckwheat on a bad 70's hair day look, so I don't need a toothpick after and it's all good from there. But again, thats just my preference.

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