COMMENTS: 141
Relax: Adultery Is Not That Big of a Deal
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Infidelity and the institution it demolishes -- marriage -- are all the rage (again). This time it's thanks to Senator John Ensign, Governor Mark Sanford, and civilian Jon Gosselin. Despite these recent scandals and ever sobering divorce rates, the New York Times offers an optimistic analysis: "Marriage Stands Up for Itself." Meanwhile the cover of Time ominously states "Unfaithfully Yours: Infidelity Is Eroding Our Most Sacred Institution. How to Make Marriage Matter Again." I invite everyone to relax and take a deep breath. I have news -- I'm not sure if it's good or bad: adultery has always and will always exist.
"If prostitution is the world's oldest profession, then the finer art of being a mistress must be the second oldest," opens the book Sex with Kings by Eleanor Herman. This book is a scintillating chronicle of the many mistresses had and had again by the rulers of France, England, Russia, and Poland to name a few. In France they even had a title for the king's head mistress -- because the king usually had more than one -- Maitresse-en-titre (official royal mistress). Little did Princess Diana know, that Charles was acting very much like every monarch before him by having a side salad.
Herman's book is a testament to the fact that adultery has been around for a very long time. [Note: she followed up with another book called Sex with the Queen, so the kings weren't the only ones misbehaving.] But we knew this already because of a much older book. When the Bible says NOT to do something (such as coveting your neighbor's wife) it's because people tend to do it -- a lot. For the record: I'm not justifying infidelity. I think it's an unfortunate circumstance that negatively affects many lives. I do, however, know for a fact that it's not going to shake the moral foundation of the nation nor is it going to destroy the institution of marriage. If it were going to do that, it would have done it already.
I'm willing to argue that it's not marriage, but divorce rather, that's changed over the past sixty years. Up until roughly the 1950s, divorce was so socially unacceptable that it rarely happened. Not only was divorce a stigma, but life for a woman after divorce was a death sentence. Prior to the 1900s, children from a divorced family would automatically go to the father (no contest), along with any property the couple owned. Job options for a woman were pretty much non-existent until the early-mid twentieth century. In post World War II America, the image of the ideal housewife and her handsome working husband was projected in advertisements and on televisions shows. It was an image that people were afraid to taint. It was all about keeping up appearances -- even more so than it is today. Rest assured it's not that they had better marriages way back when -- void of lying and cheating -- it's that they had no way out. In the home, that circumstance is no more desirable than divorce. It's only out of the home -- when collective divorce rates are down -- that it appears to be better.
Actor Spencer Tracey had a twenty-six year affair with Katherine Hepburn, but refused to get divorced from his wife, Louise Treadwell, because he was Catholic and divorce was highly frowned upon. The hypocrisy is astounding, isn't it? Interestingly enough, the Bible cites adultery as the only acceptable reason for getting divorced. Even with that holy clause, I don't think every couple who faces infidelity should get divorced necessarily. If they want to work it out then that's their business. The rest of us should stop talking about it and cease to be continually fascinated by affairs. They happen. Even mighty philanthropist and master marriage man Paul Newman had an affair. I'm sorry to be the one to tell you.
I do think Mark Sanford is doing right by not resigning. (I didn't think Eliot Spitzer should have resigned either.) Can you imagine if every man or woman who's had an affair had to give up his or her job? Then something besides the economy would be causing an employment crisis. We must honor the separation of home and workplace.
I would love to see a politician do as Jesus did and say to a crowd hungry for a (figurative) stoning, "He who has not sinned, cast the first stone." If the crowd were in an honest mood, then at least half of them would walk away. Subsequently, half of the viewers at home would turn off their television sets in solidarity.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: armorypk on Jul 10, 2009 1:08 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Men, on the other hand, don't give a hoot what the motive may have been. If their mate has sex with another man, it is unforgivable.
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» RE: Yes, But Men And Women React Differently
Posted by: QuestionAuthority
» RE: Yes, But Men And Women React Differently
Posted by: clvngodess
» RE: Yes, But Men And Women React Differently
Posted by: raymondg
» RE: Yes, But Men And Women React Differently
Posted by: antonius116
» RE: Yes, But Men And Women React Differently
Posted by: maglindracia
» RE: Yes, But Men And Women React Differently
Posted by: antonius116
» RE: Yes, But Men And Women React Differently
Posted by: lepidopteryx
» RE: Yes, But Men And Women React Differently
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Yes, But Men And Women React Differently
Posted by: lalala
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Posted by: debocracy on Jul 10, 2009 2:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Absolutely
Posted by: AlexaD
» RE: It's the hypocrisy, not the adultery
Posted by: Aimleft
» RE: It's the hypocrisy, not the adultery
Posted by: Beck
» RE: It's the hypocrisy, not the adultery
Posted by: mjt
» Exactly. Likewise with the guys who get caught running after other guys.
Posted by: hagwind
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Posted by: weathered on Jul 10, 2009 2:07 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: "Honor, respect and trust"
Posted by: xvictor
» Really? Then perhaps you'll tell us why you lie about 911?
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: eally? Then perhaps you'll tell us why you lie about 911?
Posted by: lalala
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Posted by: Don Quixot on Jul 10, 2009 2:51 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
…adultery is not going to destroy the institution of marriage... But it is the first cause of divorce, which has been growing exponentially since the sixties. In some countries there are more people divorced now than married. When 90 % of the people are divorced, and this is where we are heading, will the “institution of marriage” still not be destroyed?
…it's not marriage, but divorce rather, that's changed over the past sixty years… same strange logic, when divorce soars, “marriage” is still the same, so even if we have 90 % divorce, the 10% still married will remain unchanged, of course, so “marriage” will remain unchanged.
Marriage is based on trust, just like every other partnership, commercial, political, etc. Infidelity destroys trust forever, so even if you do not divorce, there is no marriage any more. There is an infinite distance between fear of infidelity and knowledge of infidelity. We are heading not so slow but sure to Aldous Huxley’s Brave New World, a sad, mentally sick, fatherless society.
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» Sorry, but...
Posted by: AlexaD
» RE: Sorry, but...
Posted by: Don Quixot
» RE: Sorry, but...
Posted by: QuestionAuthority
» RE: Sorry, but...
Posted by: gilliani
» RE: Sorry, but...
Posted by: Don Quixot
» RE: Sorry, but...
Posted by: jroth420
» RE: Sorry, but...
Posted by: harryf200
» RE: Sorry, but...
Posted by: gilliani
» RE: Money...
Posted by: kiel
» RE: Money...
Posted by: harryf200
» RE: Sorry, but...
Posted by: clvngodess
» RE: Sorry, but...
Posted by: melloe2
» RE: Sorry, but...
Posted by: rider3
» RE: Don Quixote
Posted by: hagwind
» Money problems, not infidelty
Posted by: cdmsr
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Posted by: justAnEgg on Jul 10, 2009 5:17 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Formalized marriage is going to vanish, hopefully. We can be committed, devoted, partners and parents without official certificates.
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» RE: Dinosaur marriage
Posted by: gilliani
» In nature.....
Posted by: Fencerider
» RE: Destroy marriage - legalize gay marriage
Posted by: kettleblack
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Posted by: mjt on Jul 10, 2009 5:54 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No leader can be allowed to so visibly allow himself a behavior that he punishes other people for.
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» RE: Have you heard him retract his "moral courage"
Posted by: kettleblack
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Posted by: colinmeister on Jul 10, 2009 5:54 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: I wonder
Posted by: Fencerider
» adults dont enjoy it that much
Posted by: lalala
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Posted by: Benn_Miller on Jul 10, 2009 5:59 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If Bill Clinton hadn't let his zipper down, Gore would have easily won in 2000 and we wouldn't have had Iraq or 9/11 !
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» That's a far reach....
Posted by: Fencerider
» Used to be, the word "deadbeat" could only mean an irresponsible, wage-earning parent.
Posted by: Beck
» Fencerider and Beck, you two don't even know what you're talking about.
Posted by: Benn_Miller
» RE: That's a far reach....Not Really
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: That's a far reach....Not Really
Posted by: Benn_Miller
» RE: That's a far reach....Not Really
Posted by: meronkun
» It's impossible to prove and you know it. BUT,
Posted by: hardwroc
» RE: This article is completely insulting to me and my wife.
Posted by: jareilly
» Unfortunately, you are in the minority.
Posted by: countingdaisies
» Wrong on Clinton
Posted by: cdmsr
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Posted by: rastaman on Jul 10, 2009 7:24 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
woooooooo hooooooooooooo
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» yeah if that helps you sleep through the night
Posted by: lalala
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Posted by: Outspokengrandmother on Jul 10, 2009 7:30 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: ladyoracle on Jul 10, 2009 7:43 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Adultery, you're missing the point
Posted by: clvngodess
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Jul 10, 2009 7:52 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you cannot keep it in your pants, say goodbye and leave. Don't cheat.
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Posted by: Gravitas on Jul 10, 2009 7:53 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But some people like fantasies, and others seem to obsess on restricting pleasure. So we have a bunch of fools and puritans dictating how we need to live our lives.
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» RE: Gravitas
Posted by: xtine
» it aint always a fantasy
Posted by: lalala
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Posted by: Samara on Jul 10, 2009 8:04 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think adultery is a big deal—between the two people who are married. I don’t think it should be as big of a deal—as far as the media is concerned—when other people do it. The point is, adultery is a common (moral) crime committed among humans beings, and—as per the write-up—it’s been committed over thousands of years. So we needn’t be surprised anymore when we find out another politician or public figure has been unfaithful, and we certainly shouldn’t dedicate as much TV time to it. The world has more important problems that deserve our attention.
As far as the hypocrisy is concerned: I agree, many of the unfaithful have been hypocrites. However, I don’t think the public gives them much choice. They have to appear as family men. The public wouldn't exactly support a man who stood on the soapbox and openly admitted he was a womanizer. Some might appreciate the honesty, most would not. Part of the political image is what we project onto those running and, after a while, we're fools for falling for the picture perfect political family. Politicians (and priests) fall short of the glory just like the rest of us. If we focus more on their leadership abilities and their record of promises -to- actual policies then we might not be as disappointed.
When I say, “Infidelity is not going to destroy the institution of marriage,” what I mean is that people will always get married. We will always aspire to create and maintain the ultimate loving relationship. I don’t think this desire will ever go away. Some couples will succeed and others will not. As far as the couples who don’t make it: I think it’s better to have a 50% divorce rate than a 50% “people stuck in a miserable relationship they can’t get out of rate,” which was our one-time alternative.
I tip my hat to those—like my parents—who can be married for thirty or more years without inviting a third party into the bedroom. It is not easy and quite commendable.
Thank you everyone for participating. This is a lively discussion!
Samara
www.LetterLover.net
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» RE: This is Interesting
Posted by: drone
» Must An "Ultimate Loving Relationship" Always Take the Same Form?
Posted by: Libertine
» RE: This is Interesting
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: This is Interesting
Posted by: Longdream
» RE: First of all Samara, there is NO evidence that Jesus ever existed...
Posted by: ShrubtheWarcriminal
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jul 10, 2009 8:08 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: ecogazoo on Jul 10, 2009 8:16 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Just be careful [Yeah, and Frankie & Johnny were American
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: Just be careful [Yeah, and Frankie & Johnny were American
Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Just be careful [Yeah, and Frankie & Johnny were American
Posted by: lalala
» RE: Just be careful [Yeah, and Frankie & Johnny were American
Posted by: Longdream
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Posted by: CLARENCE SWINNEY on Jul 10, 2009 8:20 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sexual stimulation is greatest energy factor.
I have seen many marriages destroyed.
Children suffered.
Family suffered.
Is sex with hotter body worth it.NO.
Temporary. Then, want a new one.
I hurt from lifetime of anguish I nave observed.
Pal loved wife and kids. Hot young house painter started sticking wife.
She left large home, executive mate and moved into trailer park.
Hurt two teenage kids.
Killed husband. Lost 35 lbs in few weeks contemplated suicide.
Has never recovered.
There is so much that is inside and never meets the eye.
It hurts to see so much pain from sexual stimulation.
House of Prostitution on each street corner like beer parlors.
Stimulated for beer or sex come get over it.
It is awful.
Yet! We promote it.
Lady usually cannot be host or guest on TV unless show breasts.
TV show naked teen agers.
Yet! We make fun of Muslims for covering bodies to reduce sexual stimulation.
Which is correct????
I prefer covering.
Conversation at golf club by young men.
"Today, the gals prefer S over F."
They get a thrill and no danger of pregnancy.
What a Modern World!!!!
cswinney2@triad.rr.com
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» RE: SEX
Posted by: TheExpatriate
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Posted by: coachsappho on Jul 10, 2009 8:35 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One thing you didn't mention is the possible increase in infidelity due to the 'availability' created by the internet. Now, if a marriage is strong, influences like the internet may not matter, but, when a marriage is experiencing trouble, it's easy (or often an excuse) to go online and have affairs.
For anyone who has been in a relationship where a partner has 'strayed', this is a painful article to read. Even if a couple 'stays together', there is often untold pain to the person who is hurt.
I think that even more have been tempted to stray who don't. Perhaps they were attracted to someone else, but that person didn't return the attention.
Often, the 'wronged' partner knew things weren't going well in the marriage and either tried to do something (ineffective) about it or denied the problem.
Many times perhaps there is nothing a partner can do when their partner is straying (or thinking about it). Often the infidelity is a symptom of a larger pattern of 'dishonesty' or 'attempts to one up' in a person.
Particularly if the victim is too afraid to confront their partner or, if the partner isn't willing to look at his or her part in the 'wedge' that is leading to the occurrence.
Would it discourage infidelity to make laws stronger or create incentives to 'keep it in your pants'? Sounds silly but this may be our future, along with the food police and such.
You know, that may work. You see, the one who 'strays' is often the more powerful partner in a relationship. Or, they are trying to take power. Those who are 'power sensitive' often respond to authoritarian tactics. Read Deborah Tanner's work on this idea.
That's why throughout history those 'in power' or of some 'high rank' have mistresses and or 'side salads' (I loved that one!). When you are in a relationship where power is unequal, perhaps the one with 'too much' power treats the partner more like a 'possession' or a 'thing' than in relationships where power is more equal?
Life will always be complex, and people even more complex. The reasons for non-monogamy are unlimited. The king and trash collector both have affairs, right?
As a love coach I do what I can to help individuals 'stay true' and/or select a life partner who seems to truly value monogamy, but we never really know what the future holds.
Perhaps the best thing helpers can do is to teach individuals (especially women) to be more resilient, to take better care of themselves, so that they can better handle infidelity, should it visit them.
Luckily, women don't have to stay and put up with it. However, that doesn't mean she isn't going to have other big challenges in letting a relationship go. The person must often choose: is it better for a person's self respect to be single and struggling to survive than to stay and work it out? Particularly if minor children are involved. Each person's circumstances are unique so there is no one right answer....
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» RE: Adultery
Posted by: lalala
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Posted by: jbjbjbjbjb on Jul 10, 2009 8:38 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's happening (and has been happening for quite some time now) in our precious country. We are on the downward spiral, and I'm not sure there's the time or even enough interest to try to turn back!
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» RE: Yes it is a big deal
Posted by: mapsguy1955
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Posted by: harryf200 on Jul 10, 2009 8:47 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But infidelity is, what ever you might like to call it or to justify it, the embodiment of dishonesty. It's a betrayal of trust. It is treacherous. It is a breach of a (usually) solemn promise, a breach of contract.
If you can live with that, okay - I'm not here to stand in judgement! But you can't get away from the fact that it is dishonest.
So, if you do it, you can't, or shouldn't, claim the high moral ground and criticize our leaders of dishonesty if we are dishonest ourselves. Can you?
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» RE: Marriage ought to be based upon HONESTY
Posted by: mythmorph
» We are of the same mind .... I will try to match your standard ;o)
Posted by: harryf200
» I'm Honest But I'm not Monogamous
Posted by: Libertine
» RE: It depends on how you define the institution of marriage!
Posted by: La Colombetta
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Posted by: sirios on Jul 10, 2009 9:14 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: isky investment
Posted by: Benn_Miller
» RE: isky investment..superbly articulated
Posted by: Zimbly
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Posted by: mythmorph on Jul 10, 2009 9:17 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Was it not possible to give your article a grammatically-correct title?
It is egregiously incorrect to insert the word "OF" as a qualifier as you have done in offering us "Too Big OF [sic] a Deal" as your header.
Just because the majority of ignorant and undereducated Americans write and speak this way does not make it good grammar. Don't speak/write down to us. Stamp Out Bad Usage.
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» RE: mythmorph - It’s not my title
Posted by: Samara
» And it's Spencer TRACY, not "Tracey"
Posted by: Libertine
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Posted by: BlueSun on Jul 10, 2009 9:29 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree that adultery, as such, is a private and personal issue between spouses. What Ensign and Sanford (and other Republicans with similar feet of clay) are being castigated for is not the adultery, per se, but their self-righteous holier-than-thou attitude and their arrogant assumption that they have the right to dictate morals to everybody else - even as they break their own code with startling frequency.
If the injunction is "He who is without sin can cast the first stone" then it is the faux-pious bluenoses like Sanford and Ensign who should be the ones to shut up about morality.
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Posted by: BlueTigress on Jul 10, 2009 9:34 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When it involves public figures and politicians who belong to the party that has a huge stake in telling us how to live they deserve full-court shaming and to be hounded out of office not because they are adulterers, but because they are hypocrites.
It's not the adultery, it's the hypocrisy.
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Posted by: garella on Jul 10, 2009 10:05 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
(This aside from the more important question of whether the headline accurately represents the author's argument.)
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Posted by: Quannah on Jul 10, 2009 10:55 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If adultery happens in a marriage, you can bet you can trace it back to a simple lack of respect for oneself and for one's partner. It's a selfish act, which points to a much larger problem. If one partner in a marriage is selfish, then I would posit that adultery isn't the worst problem you have.
The REAL issue when debating marriage, to me, is whether or not it's a valid institution at all. There are both pluses and minuses to marriage, but the Right puts that institution on some religious pedestal, uses marriage as a measuring stick of "success in life," and have co-opted marriage and twisted it into some God-affirming/sanctioned institution that is built on myth and wishful thinking. Some of the most loving and committed relationships I've seen were between people who chose NOT to marry.
With a failure rate of well over 50% and climbing every year, it isn't difficult to believe we've outgrown this archaic tradition and should just move on.
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» Maybe
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: Maybe
Posted by: Quannah
» Yes, Got It!
Posted by: LMNOP
» Don Quixote
Posted by: Don Quixot
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Posted by: maxsmart on Jul 10, 2009 10:56 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We need emotional and financial stability so this arrangement is a futility.
Instead we should have group living arrangements with contractual conditions allowing biodivesification of sexual relations.
A group would be much more flexible and stable and not have the fear of total emotional and financial abandonment. It would allow for pooled wage less devastated by job losses and allow for some to stay home and attend to the hearth and family in a world of increasing eco-economic stress and instability.
The nuclear family died when both parents had to work to make enought to live. When there was less time to keep up a house, job, family, and sexual relations. This isn't a matter of rich elitist privilege it is an matter of survival and recognition of sexual instincts for genetic diversity as well as security.
It is time to think outside of the suburban box and the autocratic patriarchal God of dominance and submission. The god of war of the sexes and war against our own senses!!!
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Posted by: Cynic13 on Jul 10, 2009 12:41 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I also agree with the comments that adulterous politicians do not necessarily need to step down or be exiled. It is the fact that so many of them spout off about following Christian values, and use the Bible as a bludgeon to fight anything they see as threatening our "Good Christian Nation" -blah, blah, blah. Then suddenly they are at the center of a very UNChristian scandal involving illegal use of funds, prostitutes, and elaborate lies. HELLO! Where are their Christain values now???
What we really need is thoroughly REMOVE religioius beliefs from our laws and government completely. This is a FREE country, not a CHRISTIAN one - we should all be able to live by our own beliefs, not be held to one groups extreme beliefs!!
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Posted by: PDJr on Jul 10, 2009 12:42 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Libertine on Jul 10, 2009 12:45 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We must ask ourselves, what was the original point in mandating monogamous marriage in the first place?
Religion?
No, guess again. In ancient times, when hunter-gatherers settled into agricultural societies, the ideas of private property and inheritance were established. To reliably name heirs, a man had to know which children were actually his. To do this, the sexuality of women had to be tightly controlled. Thus, formal monogamous marriage was established, with polygyny for the rich(and where the women were still monogamous, even the men weren't). This is also why women have been traditionally punished more harshly than men for adultery and why virginity was required for brides.
It had nothing to do with love, as marriage was mainly a practical arrangement until around the beginning of the 18th century.
Religion put its stamp of approval on this, which gave it the force of law in societies where religion was the law. The pronouncement of "God said it" was to ensure compliance to what went against basic human nature.
Yet people have committed adultery all through the centuries, as it's almost impossible to completely thwart human nature.
We see adultery more in the news now, as the original valid reasons for monogamy no longer exist:
Marriage is no longer primarily about reproduction, DNA tests prove paternity, non-marital children enjoy the same rights as marital children, women are no longer legally dependent on men for their survival, etc.
However, cultural sensibilities have not caught up to current practical realities, especially considering that few people know the real reasons why monogamy was mandated in the first place.
It's time our society stopped insisting that every marriage be a monogamous one in "one size fits all" style. Only then will the hypocrisy end, as human nature will surely not change.
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» RE: Monogamy is the Elephant in the Living Room
Posted by: xtine
» RE: Monogamy is the Elephant in the Living Room
Posted by: Libertine
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Posted by: MotherLodeBeth on Jul 10, 2009 12:50 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: uropeans leaders dont lecture on sex either...
Posted by: meronkun
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Posted by: rickiey on Jul 10, 2009 1:43 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So why do I look down my nose at the aforementioned politicians and think that their resignations are reasonable?
Because they lied about it. Like lying to your spouse is unacceptable in marriage, lying to the public is unacceptable from my representatives.
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» you had a mistress. what did she have?
Posted by: mcubed
» RE: you had a mistress. what did she have?
Posted by: La Colombetta
» RE: you had a mistress. what did she have?
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: you had a mistress. what did she have?
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: you had a mistress. what did she have?
Posted by: mcubed
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Posted by: Reverend Bookburn on Jul 10, 2009 2:29 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: stellabloo on Jul 10, 2009 3:08 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Certainly the euros didn't get it and I suspect many of my fellow canadians didn't get it either (whether or not they knew that Trudeau had smuggled classical guitarist Liona Boyd into 24 Sussex Drive but made her hide under the coats in the back of the car) - and we are still not getting it ... I stand with CBC host Evan Solomon when he asks Lee Hamilton, co-chair of the 9/11 commission:
"The question is ... if 40 odd million dollars were spent investigating President Bill Clinton’s sexual infidelities, why did the American people and the world have to wait 441 days for a [9/11] commission that was originally budgeted for 3 million dollars and given barely a year...?"
Why indeed. I am not necessarily condoning adultery - but - priorities, people, priorities.
The Lee Hamilton Interview
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Posted by: westomoon on Jul 10, 2009 4:00 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would too. But it would have to be a politician who hasn't been spokesperson, cheerleader, and head stone-thrower of the stoning posse for the past 20 years. Like, for instance, Bill Clinton, who didn't preach about other people's adultery while committing his.
Ensign and Sanford have been loudly and publicly driving people out of office for the same stuff they've done -- adultery and lying, not to mention misappropriation of funds to support that adultery and cover-up -- for way too long to stand in for Jesus on this one. Isn't there another applicable parable -- you know, the one about the mote in another person's eye and the beam in one's own?
I agree that adultery is distasteful, but not that big a deal. In fact, so many liberals feel the same that I'm surprised to find this piece on AlterNet -- seems like the "cultural conservative" sites would find it more interesting. But hypocrisy, lying, abandonment of post, and misappropriation of public funds cover the gamut from revolting behavior to serious crime.
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» RE: Glass Houses
Posted by: Quannah
» The Family and Dominionism
Posted by: westomoon
» RE: The Family and Dominionism
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Glass Houses
Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Glass Houses
Posted by: Longdream
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Longdream on Jul 10, 2009 5:24 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's the flying off and leaving the state decapitated with nobody in charge. It's the girlfriend and her husband on the campaign payroll. It's the smarmy pay-off to them by mom and dad. It's the vicious denigration of gays that came before the lies about the "wide stance". It's the lies and cover-ups, perjuries upon compounded perjuries.
Aren't you beginning to wonder if the Congress of these United States is used as a giant candy store by some of the people privileged enough to be sent there ?
It's not the adultery that makes a person unfit to hold office. It's the matter-of-fact ill-use of said office in service of personal priorities. It's the obvious subversion of any goal in service of the constituents of said office to the higher personal goal of being re-elected in perpetuity to said office. This, in spite of the predilection of some people to engage in behaviors so risky that, in retrospect, you'd think they were TRYING with all their energy to be thrown out.
It's not the adultery. It's the assumption of privilege so arrogant that just looking at it causes us ordinary folks to disbelieve our eyes and ears. Can a member of the US Senate really have spent his brief time in office behaving like a manipulative, 20-year-old geek?
The adultery is their wives' problem. How they got away with this kind of malfeasance in office is the only thing that should concern us.
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Posted by: Longdream on Jul 10, 2009 7:24 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: artcalight on Jul 10, 2009 7:43 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» You are so right.
Posted by: countingdaisies
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Posted by: mcubed on Jul 10, 2009 9:07 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And our pop culture promotes this, and some married women are into it to. There was actually an article in our local paper last year, profiling local married male MD's as "local McDreamies" ala the nighttime soap opera "Grey's Anatomy". One of these "hunky" doctor's wives was actually quoted that she liked for other women to be jealous of her. WTF.
Anyway, in real life, I don't care. I'm not married, and I do not aspire to be any asshole's mistress. Thank goodness I live in a time when I can own property by myself. Good grief.
And yeah, the governor of South Carolina should be replaced with an adult.
Michele
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Posted by: GPFrank on Jul 11, 2009 5:44 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
is that fiddling around is the cause of infidelity, especially when there are guys and the string things are guitars.
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Posted by: ShrubtheWarcriminal on Jul 12, 2009 3:54 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Second the comment "I would love to see a politician do as Jesus did and say to a crowd hungry for a (figurative) stoning, "He who has not sinned, cast the first stone..." is inane, as there would be NO one in jail. If it were not for "Jesus" and religion, many people of victimless crimes would not be in jail. Though this is another article for another time, this is the defense that the religious use...WHEN CAUGHT!
No matter how you flush it, you never mentioned in your original article about the hypocrisy that is the MOST important issue with most of these adulterers. The same people who had trouble with Clinton, have trouble with gays, etc. are now telling us that "god" forgives them for the same thing.
Even in your rebuttal about the title above, you are an apologist for the hypocrite in the adulterer. "If we focus more on their leadership abilities and their record of promises -to- actual policies then we might not be as disappointed." The hypocrisy is part and parcel of their leadership abilities and their record.
Adultry,not a problem with me.
Hypocrisy..."the false claim to or pretense of having admirable principles, beliefs, or feelings"
Hypocrite..."one who behaves otherwise"
I, and most people here, have big trouble with the last two.
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Posted by: reelman on Jul 12, 2009 3:02 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Huh? what's your point?
Posted by: mcubed
» actually horny polygamist= non monogamist
Posted by: lalala
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Posted by: lalala on Jul 12, 2009 10:56 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: babka on Jul 13, 2009 4:54 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: itouch backup on Jul 15, 2009 8:01 PM
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Posted by: JennyHypnosis on Jul 16, 2009 9:57 AM
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It is amazingly. It works on any man but has to be done by a woman.
The reason is phenomenal. Man has always had a weakness for women. Physically and mentally,he has an unseen weakness. Any woman can hypnotise any men using the ancient artform of Hypnotism.
Do we ladies have the last say? We look after the kids. We cook his dinner. We keep the house in order. At the end of the day,we deserve a little tenderness. How many times has he taken us for granted? We do the shitload and there he is glued to the screen watching his football.
I needed to change things alittle when it came to my husband and now his twirled round my little fingers.
THINGS are about to change Ladies!!!
Lets control our men through the power of Hypnotism. Lets turn the tables around. Get him to cook for you. Get him to wash those dishes. Get him to give you that massage while you tune in to your favourite episode of Desperate Housewives.
Ive done it and you can too.Enough is enough. Its time to put him under Hypnosis and I'll tell you just how. It sure as hell works for
me and it will for you too.
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Posted by: RobbieUMD on Jul 16, 2009 11:27 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Don Quixot on Jul 25, 2009 5:40 AM
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Posted by: armorypk on Jul 10, 2009 1:08 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Men, on the other hand, don't give a hoot what the motive may have been. If their mate has sex with another man, it is unforgivable.
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» RE: Yes, But Men And Women React Differently
Posted by: QuestionAuthority
» RE: Yes, But Men And Women React Differently
Posted by: clvngodess
» RE: Yes, But Men And Women React Differently
Posted by: raymondg
» RE: Yes, But Men And Women React Differently
Posted by: antonius116
» RE: Yes, But Men And Women React Differently
Posted by: maglindracia
» RE: Yes, But Men And Women React Differently
Posted by: antonius116
» RE: Yes, But Men And Women React Differently
Posted by: lepidopteryx
» RE: Yes, But Men And Women React Differently
Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Yes, But Men And Women React Differently
Posted by: lalala
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Posted by: debocracy on Jul 10, 2009 2:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Absolutely
Posted by: AlexaD
» RE: It's the hypocrisy, not the adultery
Posted by: Aimleft
» RE: It's the hypocrisy, not the adultery
Posted by: Beck
» RE: It's the hypocrisy, not the adultery
Posted by: mjt
» Exactly. Likewise with the guys who get caught running after other guys.
Posted by: hagwind
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Posted by: weathered on Jul 10, 2009 2:07 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: "Honor, respect and trust"
Posted by: xvictor
» Really? Then perhaps you'll tell us why you lie about 911?
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: eally? Then perhaps you'll tell us why you lie about 911?
Posted by: lalala
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Posted by: Don Quixot on Jul 10, 2009 2:51 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
…adultery is not going to destroy the institution of marriage... But it is the first cause of divorce, which has been growing exponentially since the sixties. In some countries there are more people divorced now than married. When 90 % of the people are divorced, and this is where we are heading, will the “institution of marriage” still not be destroyed?
…it's not marriage, but divorce rather, that's changed over the past sixty years… same strange logic, when divorce soars, “marriage” is still the same, so even if we have 90 % divorce, the 10% still married will remain unchanged, of course, so “marriage” will remain unchanged.
Marriage is based on trust, just like every other partnership, commercial, political, etc. Infidelity destroys trust forever, so even if you do not divorce, there is no marriage any more. There is an infinite distance between fear of infidelity and knowledge of infidelity. We are heading not so slow but sure to Aldous Huxley’s Brave New World, a sad, mentally sick, fatherless society.
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» Sorry, but...
Posted by: AlexaD
» RE: Sorry, but...
Posted by: Don Quixot
» RE: Sorry, but...
Posted by: QuestionAuthority
» RE: Sorry, but...
Posted by: gilliani
» RE: Sorry, but...
Posted by: Don Quixot
» RE: Sorry, but...
Posted by: jroth420
» RE: Sorry, but...
Posted by: harryf200
» RE: Sorry, but...
Posted by: gilliani
» RE: Money...
Posted by: kiel
» RE: Money...
Posted by: harryf200
» RE: Sorry, but...
Posted by: clvngodess
» RE: Sorry, but...
Posted by: melloe2
» RE: Sorry, but...
Posted by: rider3
» RE: Don Quixote
Posted by: hagwind
» Money problems, not infidelty
Posted by: cdmsr
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Posted by: justAnEgg on Jul 10, 2009 5:17 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Formalized marriage is going to vanish, hopefully. We can be committed, devoted, partners and parents without official certificates.
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» RE: Dinosaur marriage
Posted by: gilliani
» In nature.....
Posted by: Fencerider
» RE: Destroy marriage - legalize gay marriage
Posted by: kettleblack
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Posted by: mjt on Jul 10, 2009 5:54 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No leader can be allowed to so visibly allow himself a behavior that he punishes other people for.
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» RE: Have you heard him retract his "moral courage"
Posted by: kettleblack
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Posted by: colinmeister on Jul 10, 2009 5:54 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: I wonder
Posted by: Fencerider
» adults dont enjoy it that much
Posted by: lalala
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Posted by: Benn_Miller on Jul 10, 2009 5:59 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If Bill Clinton hadn't let his zipper down, Gore would have easily won in 2000 and we wouldn't have had Iraq or 9/11 !
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» That's a far reach....
Posted by: Fencerider
» Used to be, the word "deadbeat" could only mean an irresponsible, wage-earning parent.
Posted by: Beck
» Fencerider and Beck, you two don't even know what you're talking about.
Posted by: Benn_Miller
» RE: That's a far reach....Not Really
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: That's a far reach....Not Really
Posted by: Benn_Miller
» RE: That's a far reach....Not Really
Posted by: meronkun
» It's impossible to prove and you know it. BUT,
Posted by: hardwroc
» RE: This article is completely insulting to me and my wife.
Posted by: jareilly
» Unfortunately, you are in the minority.
Posted by: countingdaisies
» Wrong on Clinton
Posted by: cdmsr
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Posted by: rastaman on Jul 10, 2009 7:24 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
woooooooo hooooooooooooo
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» yeah if that helps you sleep through the night
Posted by: lalala
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Posted by: Outspokengrandmother on Jul 10, 2009 7:30 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: ladyoracle on Jul 10, 2009 7:43 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Adultery, you're missing the point
Posted by: clvngodess
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Jul 10, 2009 7:52 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you cannot keep it in your pants, say goodbye and leave. Don't cheat.
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Posted by: Gravitas on Jul 10, 2009 7:53 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But some people like fantasies, and others seem to obsess on restricting pleasure. So we have a bunch of fools and puritans dictating how we need to live our lives.
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» RE: Gravitas
Posted by: xtine
» it aint always a fantasy
Posted by: lalala
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Posted by: Samara on Jul 10, 2009 8:04 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think adultery is a big deal—between the two people who are married. I don’t think it should be as big of a deal—as far as the media is concerned—when other people do it. The point is, adultery is a common (moral) crime committed among humans beings, and—as per the write-up—it’s been committed over thousands of years. So we needn’t be surprised anymore when we find out another politician or public figure has been unfaithful, and we certainly shouldn’t dedicate as much TV time to it. The world has more important problems that deserve our attention.
As far as the hypocrisy is concerned: I agree, many of the unfaithful have been hypocrites. However, I don’t think the public gives them much choice. They have to appear as family men. The public wouldn't exactly support a man who stood on the soapbox and openly admitted he was a womanizer. Some might appreciate the honesty, most would not. Part of the political image is what we project onto those running and, after a while, we're fools for falling for the picture perfect political family. Politicians (and priests) fall short of the glory just like the rest of us. If we focus more on their leadership abilities and their record of promises -to- actual policies then we might not be as disappointed.
When I say, “Infidelity is not going to destroy the institution of marriage,” what I mean is that people will always get married. We will always aspire to create and maintain the ultimate loving relationship. I don’t think this desire will ever go away. Some couples will succeed and others will not. As far as the couples who don’t make it: I think it’s better to have a 50% divorce rate than a 50% “people stuck in a miserable relationship they can’t get out of rate,” which was our one-time alternative.
I tip my hat to those—like my parents—who can be married for thirty or more years without inviting a third party into the bedroom. It is not easy and quite commendable.
Thank you everyone for participating. This is a lively discussion!
Samara
www.LetterLover.net
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» RE: This is Interesting
Posted by: drone
» Must An "Ultimate Loving Relationship" Always Take the Same Form?
Posted by: Libertine
» RE: This is Interesting
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: This is Interesting
Posted by: Longdream
» RE: First of all Samara, there is NO evidence that Jesus ever existed...
Posted by: ShrubtheWarcriminal
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jul 10, 2009 8:08 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: ecogazoo on Jul 10, 2009 8:16 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Just be careful [Yeah, and Frankie & Johnny were American
Posted by: Squarehead
» RE: Just be careful [Yeah, and Frankie & Johnny were American
Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Just be careful [Yeah, and Frankie & Johnny were American
Posted by: lalala
» RE: Just be careful [Yeah, and Frankie & Johnny were American
Posted by: Longdream
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Posted by: CLARENCE SWINNEY on Jul 10, 2009 8:20 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sexual stimulation is greatest energy factor.
I have seen many marriages destroyed.
Children suffered.
Family suffered.
Is sex with hotter body worth it.NO.
Temporary. Then, want a new one.
I hurt from lifetime of anguish I nave observed.
Pal loved wife and kids. Hot young house painter started sticking wife.
She left large home, executive mate and moved into trailer park.
Hurt two teenage kids.
Killed husband. Lost 35 lbs in few weeks contemplated suicide.
Has never recovered.
There is so much that is inside and never meets the eye.
It hurts to see so much pain from sexual stimulation.
House of Prostitution on each street corner like beer parlors.
Stimulated for beer or sex come get over it.
It is awful.
Yet! We promote it.
Lady usually cannot be host or guest on TV unless show breasts.
TV show naked teen agers.
Yet! We make fun of Muslims for covering bodies to reduce sexual stimulation.
Which is correct????
I prefer covering.
Conversation at golf club by young men.
"Today, the gals prefer S over F."
They get a thrill and no danger of pregnancy.
What a Modern World!!!!
cswinney2@triad.rr.com
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» RE: SEX
Posted by: TheExpatriate
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Posted by: coachsappho on Jul 10, 2009 8:35 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One thing you didn't mention is the possible increase in infidelity due to the 'availability' created by the internet. Now, if a marriage is strong, influences like the internet may not matter, but, when a marriage is experiencing trouble, it's easy (or often an excuse) to go online and have affairs.
For anyone who has been in a relationship where a partner has 'strayed', this is a painful article to read. Even if a couple 'stays together', there is often untold pain to the person who is hurt.
I think that even more have been tempted to stray who don't. Perhaps they were attracted to someone else, but that person didn't return the attention.
Often, the 'wronged' partner knew things weren't going well in the marriage and either tried to do something (ineffective) about it or denied the problem.
Many times perhaps there is nothing a partner can do when their partner is straying (or thinking about it). Often the infidelity is a symptom of a larger pattern of 'dishonesty' or 'attempts to one up' in a person.
Particularly if the victim is too afraid to confront their partner or, if the partner isn't willing to look at his or her part in the 'wedge' that is leading to the occurrence.
Would it discourage infidelity to make laws stronger or create incentives to 'keep it in your pants'? Sounds silly but this may be our future, along with the food police and such.
You know, that may work. You see, the one who 'strays' is often the more powerful partner in a relationship. Or, they are trying to take power. Those who are 'power sensitive' often respond to authoritarian tactics. Read Deborah Tanner's work on this idea.
That's why throughout history those 'in power' or of some 'high rank' have mistresses and or 'side salads' (I loved that one!). When you are in a relationship where power is unequal, perhaps the one with 'too much' power treats the partner more like a 'possession' or a 'thing' than in relationships where power is more equal?
Life will always be complex, and people even more complex. The reasons for non-monogamy are unlimited. The king and trash collector both have affairs, right?
As a love coach I do what I can to help individuals 'stay true' and/or select a life partner who seems to truly value monogamy, but we never really know what the future holds.
Perhaps the best thing helpers can do is to teach individuals (especially women) to be more resilient, to take better care of themselves, so that they can better handle infidelity, should it visit them.
Luckily, women don't have to stay and put up with it. However, that doesn't mean she isn't going to have other big challenges in letting a relationship go. The person must often choose: is it better for a person's self respect to be single and struggling to survive than to stay and work it out? Particularly if minor children are involved. Each person's circumstances are unique so there is no one right answer....
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» RE: Adultery
Posted by: lalala
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Posted by: jbjbjbjbjb on Jul 10, 2009 8:38 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's happening (and has been happening for quite some time now) in our precious country. We are on the downward spiral, and I'm not sure there's the time or even enough interest to try to turn back!
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» RE: Yes it is a big deal
Posted by: mapsguy1955
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Posted by: harryf200 on Jul 10, 2009 8:47 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But infidelity is, what ever you might like to call it or to justify it, the embodiment of dishonesty. It's a betrayal of trust. It is treacherous. It is a breach of a (usually) solemn promise, a breach of contract.
If you can live with that, okay - I'm not here to stand in judgement! But you can't get away from the fact that it is dishonest.
So, if you do it, you can't, or shouldn't, claim the high moral ground and criticize our leaders of dishonesty if we are dishonest ourselves. Can you?
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» RE: Marriage ought to be based upon HONESTY
Posted by: mythmorph
» We are of the same mind .... I will try to match your standard ;o)
Posted by: harryf200
» I'm Honest But I'm not Monogamous
Posted by: Libertine
» RE: It depends on how you define the institution of marriage!
Posted by: La Colombetta
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Posted by: sirios on Jul 10, 2009 9:14 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: isky investment
Posted by: Benn_Miller
» RE: isky investment..superbly articulated
Posted by: Zimbly
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Posted by: mythmorph on Jul 10, 2009 9:17 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Was it not possible to give your article a grammatically-correct title?
It is egregiously incorrect to insert the word "OF" as a qualifier as you have done in offering us "Too Big OF [sic] a Deal" as your header.
Just because the majority of ignorant and undereducated Americans write and speak this way does not make it good grammar. Don't speak/write down to us. Stamp Out Bad Usage.
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» RE: mythmorph - It’s not my title
Posted by: Samara
» And it's Spencer TRACY, not "Tracey"
Posted by: Libertine
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Posted by: BlueSun on Jul 10, 2009 9:29 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree that adultery, as such, is a private and personal issue between spouses. What Ensign and Sanford (and other Republicans with similar feet of clay) are being castigated for is not the adultery, per se, but their self-righteous holier-than-thou attitude and their arrogant assumption that they have the right to dictate morals to everybody else - even as they break their own code with startling frequency.
If the injunction is "He who is without sin can cast the first stone" then it is the faux-pious bluenoses like Sanford and Ensign who should be the ones to shut up about morality.
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Posted by: BlueTigress on Jul 10, 2009 9:34 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When it involves public figures and politicians who belong to the party that has a huge stake in telling us how to live they deserve full-court shaming and to be hounded out of office not because they are adulterers, but because they are hypocrites.
It's not the adultery, it's the hypocrisy.
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Posted by: garella on Jul 10, 2009 10:05 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
(This aside from the more important question of whether the headline accurately represents the author's argument.)
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Posted by: Quannah on Jul 10, 2009 10:55 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If adultery happens in a marriage, you can bet you can trace it back to a simple lack of respect for oneself and for one's partner. It's a selfish act, which points to a much larger problem. If one partner in a marriage is selfish, then I would posit that adultery isn't the worst problem you have.
The REAL issue when debating marriage, to me, is whether or not it's a valid institution at all. There are both pluses and minuses to marriage, but the Right puts that institution on some religious pedestal, uses marriage as a measuring stick of "success in life," and have co-opted marriage and twisted it into some God-affirming/sanctioned institution that is built on myth and wishful thinking. Some of the most loving and committed relationships I've seen were between people who chose NOT to marry.
With a failure rate of well over 50% and climbing every year, it isn't difficult to believe we've outgrown this archaic tradition and should just move on.
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» Maybe
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: Maybe
Posted by: Quannah
» Yes, Got It!
Posted by: LMNOP
» Don Quixote
Posted by: Don Quixot
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Posted by: maxsmart on Jul 10, 2009 10:56 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We need emotional and financial stability so this arrangement is a futility.
Instead we should have group living arrangements with contractual conditions allowing biodivesification of sexual relations.
A group would be much more flexible and stable and not have the fear of total emotional and financial abandonment. It would allow for pooled wage less devastated by job losses and allow for some to stay home and attend to the hearth and family in a world of increasing eco-economic stress and instability.
The nuclear family died when both parents had to work to make enought to live. When there was less time to keep up a house, job, family, and sexual relations. This isn't a matter of rich elitist privilege it is an matter of survival and recognition of sexual instincts for genetic diversity as well as security.
It is time to think outside of the suburban box and the autocratic patriarchal God of dominance and submission. The god of war of the sexes and war against our own senses!!!
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Posted by: Cynic13 on Jul 10, 2009 12:41 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I also agree with the comments that adulterous politicians do not necessarily need to step down or be exiled. It is the fact that so many of them spout off about following Christian values, and use the Bible as a bludgeon to fight anything they see as threatening our "Good Christian Nation" -blah, blah, blah. Then suddenly they are at the center of a very UNChristian scandal involving illegal use of funds, prostitutes, and elaborate lies. HELLO! Where are their Christain values now???
What we really need is thoroughly REMOVE religioius beliefs from our laws and government completely. This is a FREE country, not a CHRISTIAN one - we should all be able to live by our own beliefs, not be held to one groups extreme beliefs!!
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Posted by: PDJr on Jul 10, 2009 12:42 PM
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Posted by: Libertine on Jul 10, 2009 12:45 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We must ask ourselves, what was the original point in mandating monogamous marriage in the first place?
Religion?
No, guess again. In ancient times, when hunter-gatherers settled into agricultural societies, the ideas of private property and inheritance were established. To reliably name heirs, a man had to know which children were actually his. To do this, the sexuality of women had to be tightly controlled. Thus, formal monogamous marriage was established, with polygyny for the rich(and where the women were still monogamous, even the men weren't). This is also why women have been traditionally punished more harshly than men for adultery and why virginity was required for brides.
It had nothing to do with love, as marriage was mainly a practical arrangement until around the beginning of the 18th century.
Religion put its stamp of approval on this, which gave it the force of law in societies where religion was the law. The pronouncement of "God said it" was to ensure compliance to what went against basic human nature.
Yet people have committed adultery all through the centuries, as it's almost impossible to completely thwart human nature.
We see adultery more in the news now, as the original valid reasons for monogamy no longer exist:
Marriage is no longer primarily about reproduction, DNA tests prove paternity, non-marital children enjoy the same rights as marital children, women are no longer legally dependent on men for their survival, etc.
However, cultural sensibilities have not caught up to current practical realities, especially considering that few people know the real reasons why monogamy was mandated in the first place.
It's time our society stopped insisting that every marriage be a monogamous one in "one size fits all" style. Only then will the hypocrisy end, as human nature will surely not change.
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» RE: Monogamy is the Elephant in the Living Room
Posted by: xtine
» RE: Monogamy is the Elephant in the Living Room
Posted by: Libertine
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Posted by: MotherLodeBeth on Jul 10, 2009 12:50 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: uropeans leaders dont lecture on sex either...
Posted by: meronkun
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Posted by: rickiey on Jul 10, 2009 1:43 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So why do I look down my nose at the aforementioned politicians and think that their resignations are reasonable?
Because they lied about it. Like lying to your spouse is unacceptable in marriage, lying to the public is unacceptable from my representatives.
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» you had a mistress. what did she have?
Posted by: mcubed
» RE: you had a mistress. what did she have?
Posted by: La Colombetta
» RE: you had a mistress. what did she have?
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: you had a mistress. what did she have?
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: you had a mistress. what did she have?
Posted by: mcubed
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Posted by: Reverend Bookburn on Jul 10, 2009 2:29 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: stellabloo on Jul 10, 2009 3:08 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Certainly the euros didn't get it and I suspect many of my fellow canadians didn't get it either (whether or not they knew that Trudeau had smuggled classical guitarist Liona Boyd into 24 Sussex Drive but made her hide under the coats in the back of the car) - and we are still not getting it ... I stand with CBC host Evan Solomon when he asks Lee Hamilton, co-chair of the 9/11 commission:
"The question is ... if 40 odd million dollars were spent investigating President Bill Clinton’s sexual infidelities, why did the American people and the world have to wait 441 days for a [9/11] commission that was originally budgeted for 3 million dollars and given barely a year...?"
Why indeed. I am not necessarily condoning adultery - but - priorities, people, priorities.
The Lee Hamilton Interview
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Posted by: westomoon on Jul 10, 2009 4:00 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would too. But it would have to be a politician who hasn't been spokesperson, cheerleader, and head stone-thrower of the stoning posse for the past 20 years. Like, for instance, Bill Clinton, who didn't preach about other people's adultery while committing his.
Ensign and Sanford have been loudly and publicly driving people out of office for the same stuff they've done -- adultery and lying, not to mention misappropriation of funds to support that adultery and cover-up -- for way too long to stand in for Jesus on this one. Isn't there another applicable parable -- you know, the one about the mote in another person's eye and the beam in one's own?
I agree that adultery is distasteful, but not that big a deal. In fact, so many liberals feel the same that I'm surprised to find this piece on AlterNet -- seems like the "cultural conservative" sites would find it more interesting. But hypocrisy, lying, abandonment of post, and misappropriation of public funds cover the gamut from revolting behavior to serious crime.
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» RE: Glass Houses
Posted by: Quannah
» The Family and Dominionism
Posted by: westomoon
» RE: The Family and Dominionism
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Glass Houses
Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Glass Houses
Posted by: Longdream
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Posted by: Longdream on Jul 10, 2009 5:24 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's the flying off and leaving the state decapitated with nobody in charge. It's the girlfriend and her husband on the campaign payroll. It's the smarmy pay-off to them by mom and dad. It's the vicious denigration of gays that came before the lies about the "wide stance". It's the lies and cover-ups, perjuries upon compounded perjuries.
Aren't you beginning to wonder if the Congress of these United States is used as a giant candy store by some of the people privileged enough to be sent there ?
It's not the adultery that makes a person unfit to hold office. It's the matter-of-fact ill-use of said office in service of personal priorities. It's the obvious subversion of any goal in service of the constituents of said office to the higher personal goal of being re-elected in perpetuity to said office. This, in spite of the predilection of some people to engage in behaviors so risky that, in retrospect, you'd think they were TRYING with all their energy to be thrown out.
It's not the adultery. It's the assumption of privilege so arrogant that just looking at it causes us ordinary folks to disbelieve our eyes and ears. Can a member of the US Senate really have spent his brief time in office behaving like a manipulative, 20-year-old geek?
The adultery is their wives' problem. How they got away with this kind of malfeasance in office is the only thing that should concern us.
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Posted by: Longdream on Jul 10, 2009 7:24 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: artcalight on Jul 10, 2009 7:43 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» You are so right.
Posted by: countingdaisies
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Posted by: mcubed on Jul 10, 2009 9:07 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And our pop culture promotes this, and some married women are into it to. There was actually an article in our local paper last year, profiling local married male MD's as "local McDreamies" ala the nighttime soap opera "Grey's Anatomy". One of these "hunky" doctor's wives was actually quoted that she liked for other women to be jealous of her. WTF.
Anyway, in real life, I don't care. I'm not married, and I do not aspire to be any asshole's mistress. Thank goodness I live in a time when I can own property by myself. Good grief.
And yeah, the governor of South Carolina should be replaced with an adult.
Michele
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Posted by: GPFrank on Jul 11, 2009 5:44 AM
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is that fiddling around is the cause of infidelity, especially when there are guys and the string things are guitars.
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Posted by: ShrubtheWarcriminal on Jul 12, 2009 3:54 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Second the comment "I would love to see a politician do as Jesus did and say to a crowd hungry for a (figurative) stoning, "He who has not sinned, cast the first stone..." is inane, as there would be NO one in jail. If it were not for "Jesus" and religion, many people of victimless crimes would not be in jail. Though this is another article for another time, this is the defense that the religious use...WHEN CAUGHT!
No matter how you flush it, you never mentioned in your original article about the hypocrisy that is the MOST important issue with most of these adulterers. The same people who had trouble with Clinton, have trouble with gays, etc. are now telling us that "god" forgives them for the same thing.
Even in your rebuttal about the title above, you are an apologist for the hypocrite in the adulterer. "If we focus more on their leadership abilities and their record of promises -to- actual policies then we might not be as disappointed." The hypocrisy is part and parcel of their leadership abilities and their record.
Adultry,not a problem with me.
Hypocrisy..."the false claim to or pretense of having admirable principles, beliefs, or feelings"
Hypocrite..."one who behaves otherwise"
I, and most people here, have big trouble with the last two.
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Posted by: reelman on Jul 12, 2009 3:02 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Huh? what's your point?
Posted by: mcubed
» actually horny polygamist= non monogamist
Posted by: lalala
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Posted by: lalala on Jul 12, 2009 10:56 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: babka on Jul 13, 2009 4:54 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: itouch backup on Jul 15, 2009 8:01 PM
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Posted by: JennyHypnosis on Jul 16, 2009 9:57 AM
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It is amazingly. It works on any man but has to be done by a woman.
The reason is phenomenal. Man has always had a weakness for women. Physically and mentally,he has an unseen weakness. Any woman can hypnotise any men using the ancient artform of Hypnotism.
Do we ladies have the last say? We look after the kids. We cook his dinner. We keep the house in order. At the end of the day,we deserve a little tenderness. How many times has he taken us for granted? We do the shitload and there he is glued to the screen watching his football.
I needed to change things alittle when it came to my husband and now his twirled round my little fingers.
THINGS are about to change Ladies!!!
Lets control our men through the power of Hypnotism. Lets turn the tables around. Get him to cook for you. Get him to wash those dishes. Get him to give you that massage while you tune in to your favourite episode of Desperate Housewives.
Ive done it and you can too.Enough is enough. Its time to put him under Hypnosis and I'll tell you just how. It sure as hell works for
me and it will for you too.
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Posted by: RobbieUMD on Jul 16, 2009 11:27 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Don Quixot on Jul 25, 2009 5:40 AM
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