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PopMatters / By Michael Abernethy
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Get Over It, Conservatives: Same-Sex Marriage Will Be Legal in All 50 States

Some day, people will look back with amazement and disdain that same-sex couples were denied a fundamental right for so long in America.
May 19, 2009  |  
 
 
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Do a Google search for the term "same-sex marriage". I'll wait. Odds are that you got over 33 million results. Seems like everyone has something to say on the subject, good, bad, or ignorant.

Which is one reason I've never devoted an entire article to the subject ‘til now. After all, what could I say that is new? Still, there comes a time when the elephant in the room is tearing up all the furniture and peeing on everything and you just have to say, "Hey, look. There's a big elephant making a mess, here!"

Vermont, Iowa, New York, Washington, D.C., Connecticut -- most likely, you don't need me to tell you what's going on in those states (and the district of D.C.). And if you're a savvy, literate person, you've already seen Frank Rich's wonderful New York Times piece deconstructing the ridiculous "Gathering Storm" commercial from the National Organization for Marriage, a group whose sole purpose it to stop loving couples from getting married, as opposed to helping those in troubled marriages fix their problems.

Instead, let me direct your attention to another well written op-ed piece, "Constitutional amendment on gay marriage is a waste of time" (11 March 2009), this one by an excellent writer named Michael Abernethy. No, not me. This Michael Abernethy is a writer with The Times News, Burlington, North Carolina's leading, and -- one assumes -- only, newspaper.

Abernethy excels at deconstructing some of the arguments against allowing gay marriage with wit and intelligence. (In the spirit of full disclosure, I should admit that Michael and I are e-mail acquaintances and he is probably a distant cousin of some sort, as I have a considerable number of kinfolk in that area of the country.)

In response to the idea that allowing gay marriage will destroy the traditional marriage, he notes, "America's idea of the sanctity of marriage ended sometime between Elizabeth Taylor's fourth or fifth husband and Britney Spears' 55-hour marriage to a school friend." And he seems almost gleeful when it is suggested by an anti-gay crusader that after allowing gay marriage, marriage with "pets or robots" could be next: "I'll be first to sign the papers and finally consummate my love for ‘Agnes' -- my red, hollow-body, Washburn electric guitar -- to whom I've been devoted for 10 years."

What I like about Abernethy, aside from the great name, is his ability to cut through carefully constructed claims that are basically bullshit and fear-mongering and get to the absurdity of the primary arguments. And you should read some of his music reviews -- he's not shy about telling you a piece of crap music when he hears it, either. But I digress.

The same qualities I like in Michael's article are what I like about the Iowa Supreme Court's ruling on gay marriage, only take out the wit and add a lengthy discussion of the Iowa state constitution, with emphasis on the striking similarities to the U.S. Constitution (message to the U.S. Supreme Court received, thank you). The ruling cut down a well-financed, finely tuned anti-gay argument with logic, based in adherence to the principles of the Constitution. For instance, in response to arguments that the people of Iowa were opposed to gay marriage, the court replied, "A statute inconsistent with the Iowa Constitution must be declared void, even though it may be supported by strong and deep-seated traditional beliefs and popular opinion." (p. 13, VARNUM, HYDE, BARBOUROSKE, BARBOUROSKE, MORGAN, SWAGGERTY, TWOMBLEY, HOCH, MUSSER, DREAMING, OLSON, and EVANS v. TIMOTHY J. BRIEN, In His Official Capacities as the Polk County Recorder and Polk County Registrar.) They got it: that marriage is a legal right, not a religious practice. That doesn't preclude people from making the marriage ceremony a religious service, in any of a number of ceremony choices, but at its heart, marriage is all about the law.

Even if you have a grandiose wedding worthy of a four-page spread in People and performed by the Pope himself, you're not married in the United States until you file an official license with the government and some clerk with a bad attitude and hair extensions enters your information into the state's computer records. Then, you stay married until some court says you're not, at which point you are legally single, regardless of what your church thinks or says.

In fact, many denominations just avoid the whole divorce issue, leaving it strictly to the courts to determine. This is understandable, though; after pronouncing "what God has joined together, let no man put asunder" during the wedding, you've kind of painted yourself into a corner. Who really wants to take on God?

Thus, marriage exists in two forms in America: the legal form, which gets you tax breaks and hospital visitation rights, and the religious form, which gets you peace of mind in knowing that you are not going to Hell for screwing around with your spouse. Churches are free, and always have been, to marry whomever they want and to not marry those they don't want.


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Gay Marriage All But Inevitable!!!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Dak on May 19, 2009 1:48 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is probably the best written, most sensible article I have read in a long, long time. It takes a really talented, intelligent writer to cut through and lay bare the arrogance and stupidity of the RRR conservatives. And then to do it with humor, as if the RRR thinks they have a sense of humor! Politically and Constitutionally correct in all manner.
Many thanks to the Author and Editor for letting this gem hit the paper and ink in so clear a fashion!
GMM, Pastor/Chaplain (Ret.)
25 Yr. Retired PS Teacher, Music/Government

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This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
» RE: Give the Holy Spirit a chance Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Screw tolerance. Posted by: Eddie Van Helsing
» Yes, "some" do! Posted by: Curio
» RE: Making Something Legal Does NOT Make It Right: Posted by: Christopher Hobe Morrison
» Irish Workhouses Posted by: LeaderofMen
» RE: Irish Workhouses Posted by: iris89

Comments are closed-

Addendum To My Last Post
[Report this comment]
Posted by: iris89 on May 19, 2009 8:03 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hi Everyone

Here is something I overlooked adding to my last post:

To assist you and all others in knowing the truth, I have set up an educational forum where facts are presented so all can learn reality. Now go to:

http://religioustruths.proboards59.com/

An Educational Referral Forum for those objective individuals that are interested in the truth and NOT bigoted none objective 'crappola.'

NOW I CHALLENGE OUT TO ONE AND ALL TO SHOW A SINGLE FACTUAL ERROR IN WANY OF MY ARTICLES! Now, Let's start accepting the facts and being objective instead of being none objective and closed minded. I am just the bearer of the truth, the facts, NOT the maker of the facts! I am just a messenger of the truth which all should want if they are honest with them selves in keeping with John 8:32, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (Authorized King James Bible; AV) .

Iris89

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» RE: Addendum To My Last Post Posted by: reverendnick
» Factual rebuttal Posted by: abbadon2007
» RE: How's that for factual rebuttal Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Don't you "hi" me, troll Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Don't you "hi" me, troll Posted by: Seranvali
» RE: Addendum To My Last Post Posted by: Aimleft
» Hey Biblical Expert Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: Hey Biblical Expert Posted by: iris89
» RE: Hey Biblical Expert Posted by: Seranvali
» RE: Hey Biblical Expert Posted by: stormy
» RE: Hey Biblical Expert Posted by: Seranvali
» RE: Hey Biblical Expert Posted by: iris89
» RE: Hey Biblical Expert Posted by: Seranvali

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Who Cares?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Honky the Nihilist VI on May 20, 2009 12:06 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Marriage is a relic. It should not exist in an legal sense.

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» RE: Who Cares? Posted by: stormy
» RE: Who Cares? Posted by: snax
» RE: Who Cares? Posted by: johnwinthrop

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Does Gender Matter?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: RustyOldCar on May 20, 2009 3:05 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It seems to me that this writer, and his "cousin" miss the most important question. Aside from the personal, cute jabs, and the obvious disdain for any religious influence on jurisprudence; these writers miss the obvious question: In marriage, does gender matter? It is not "gay marriage" the he is extolling, it is "marriage as a genderless institution" that "gay marriage" advocates, well, advocate.

Now, this is not the same question as "does skin color or race matter?" in marriage. We, as a country have rightly answered no.

But, you cannot simply extent that "rights" argument to "genderless marriage." It simply does not follow.

I believe that gender-based marriage -- aka, one man, one woman -- marriage does matter, for a host of reasons that cannot be explained here and are never touched by writers like Mr. Abernathy (both of them). But I might suggest you Google "Genderless Marriage, Institutional Realities, and Judicial Elision" as a starter to get a different perspective on this important topic.

I am not "against gays." I am in favor of a distinction -- legally -- between a gender-based marriage (one man, one woman) and one that is not gender-based.

In my view, a gay person has the same right that I do (in my state, thankfully); and that is to marry - a person of the opposite sex. A gay person can marry, just not someone of the same sex.

Some may think this small-minded, but it does expose the most obvious misnomer which is that many states do not allow gays to marry. No, we do not allow gays to marry someone of the same sex -- the same gender.

And, that is not prejudice. Unless you don't think that gender matters.

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» RE: Does Gender Matter? Posted by: cmaciain
» RE: Does Gender Matter? Posted by: mjglow
» RE: Does Gender Matter? Posted by: katvilani
» RE: Does Gender Matter? Posted by: acmwallace
» RE: Does Gender Matter? Posted by: Seranvali
» RE: Does Gender Matter? Posted by: EYEAM4ANARCHY

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Just like we look back on...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: kiel on May 20, 2009 4:56 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...the fact that women couldn't vote, or slavery, or Jim Crow laws, or any number of former laws that denied large groups of people basic human rights. We'll look back and ask, WTF?

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Does anyone here know what it means to be conservative?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: lisafrequency on May 20, 2009 5:22 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a real political conservative I see no reason what so ever to interfere in the private lives of others. Who cares one way or another if gays can marry? Let them do what they want to do. Stop trying to bring the bible into it. Keep church and state separate.

Get this straight political conservatism has nothing to do with regulating the morals of others.

Most political conservatives believe in minding their own business and and keeping the government out of their personal life.

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All fifty states . . .
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Posted by: Walks-in-Storms on May 20, 2009 5:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And by then we'll another term and ceremony describing and celebrating the original and traditional union. As to whether we'll get over the idea that one can change a fact by changing how it is represented in words one can't say. Truth made by repeating a lie often enough to confuse - especially the youth of the society in question - doesn't change the truth. Just minds.

"Gay marriage" will always be just that, and both government and public will go on asking what kind of "marriage" the principals have.

As a society and nation we're pretty sick politically, economically, ideologically, and more - perhaps terminally so - and nothing so accurately serves as a metaphor of the sickness than the way homosexuality is being treated. For the tacticians who might see this, consider what this "issue" (whoo, the double entendred there is smashing!) means for others we might - almost certainly will - handle the same way.

Were this a ship, and I was aboard, I'd be thinking (as my wife and our family are) of manning the lifeboats.

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» RE: All fifty states . . .SOON! Posted by: kanekoa64

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what happen in California then?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars on May 20, 2009 5:58 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
really what happen in California then? I guess the courts have to fix what the people "the stupid ones, you know the plebs" messed up something simple. Wait, didn't the Prop 8 vote come on the same night as the general election, you know the same night some black guy from Chicago won the presidency? I see the Mormon Church really came a long way eh or this is what happens when you get the majority to vote, it might not go your way.

Should Gay partners have the same "legal" rights as heterosexual couples: Yes

Should Gays be allowed to marry however: yes

Should Gay Marriage however be forced down my throat like a ball gag: no

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» The Same Courts that validated slavery Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars

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I am a Lesbian
[Report this comment]
Posted by: missmoon on May 20, 2009 6:48 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a lesbian and will be marrying my partner in Massachusetts this July. I do not believe in the Bible as the word of God, therefore I find the Christian "truth sayers" offensive at the very least. My right to marry is a LEGAL issue, not religious a one! If you want to marry a person of the opposite gender great! I ask, why did you choose to be a heterosexual rather than homosexual ... oh! it wasn't a choice? Go figure.

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» RE: I am a Lesbian Posted by: JefffromCA
» RE: I am a Lesbian Posted by: missmoon
» RE: I am a Lesbian Posted by: Seranvali

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the bible.... ugh.....
[Report this comment]
Posted by: dsmidiman on May 20, 2009 6:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I get so tired of hearing conservatives and so called religious people quoting bits and pieces of the bible as "proof" that thier close minded dictorial way of thinking is correct and the way "GOD" intended us to believe and live. The bible was written by MAN!! It reads like a horoscope. You can go through and pick out individual bits and peices and present them in a way that would support just about anything. Example: God is against abortion (the killing of unborn human beings) But apparently GOD sanctions the slaughter of thousands of living beings in wars, or the death of thousands in need by neglect so those who are making the laws and already living like kings can prosper even more. God doesn't want us to abort unborn fetuses for ANY reason yet he sanctions the use of hidious torture techniques (sometimes resulting in death) used to aquire false confessions in order to support an illegal invasion of another country that kills thousands of innocent men women and children in order to make billions of dollars. It's rediculous the hypocrasy that exists in the far right so called religious people of this country. Who the hell cares what consenting adults do with each other when it comes to sharing thier lives and bodies with each other. The few same sex couples of I know and have known over the years are the most compassionate loving people I have ever met. I don't find the physical attraction between gays and lesbians to be something I like but I don't like brocholie either. But that doesn't mean I think anyone who eats brocholie should be denied the same protection against food contamination or any of the other regulations in place to keep food safe and beneficial to all. religion in itself it not a bad thing. I think the core phylosophy of religion is good. Jesus takes a basket of bread and feeds hundreds of starving people, things like that, things that are good for all mankind. It's the constant interpretation of the bible by those who want to dictate to all others how to live and believe that has destroyed religion in this country....

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None of the government's business
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Posted by: Eddie Van Helsing on May 20, 2009 6:58 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Relationships between consenting adults are none of the government's or society's business, and we could cut through a lot of the bullshit surrounding marriage by recognizing this and adjusting policy accordingly.

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Let the churches
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Posted by: JefffromCA on May 20, 2009 9:25 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Have ceremonies for those they choose to rent out the church. This should not be the issue. I would not want to force any church or similar private organization do anything it did not want to do.

The courts are going to decide on the basic issue of issuing marriage licenses to two people who want to have the benefits of sanctioned commitment. And pay the marriage penalty. The idea that marriage needs "protection" because gays want to get married is simply preposterous.

If a church does not want to perform a ceremony that's all it should say. Getting involved with the politics should endanger their tax free status. But, then again here I go, trying to talk about organized religion doing something logical. I am sorry, I keep forgetting that religion and logic do not go together.

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Let's have bible-based marriage laws for everybody!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Defenestrator on May 20, 2009 9:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's be consistent! Bible-based rules on marriage for everybody, not just gays. Here's some suggestions from the Good Book (King James Version, written in 1611):

As homosexual sex is a sin
(Leviticus 20:13); (Romans 1:26-27)
We will outlaw gay marriage. Although to be accurate, the Bible does not ever mention marriage between men or marriage between women. Just like conservatives, it is entirely focused on the gay sex act and not loving partnerships.

No man shall be allowed to marry a woman who has been divorced.
(Matthew 5:32)

No marriage for widows (unless it is to her brother-in-law, see below). Women whose husbands have died are to refrain from intimacy and pleasure for the rest of their lives.
(1 Timothy 5:5-15) (that passage translated into modern English)

A widow is allowed to marry her brother-in-law, if her dead husband never impregnated her with a son. However- if he refuses to marry her, she is to pull off one of his sandals and spit in his face, and from that point on his family is to be known as "The Family Of The Man Whose Sandal Was Pulled Off."
(Deuteronomy 25:5-10) (that passage translated into modern English)

If a man rapes a woman he shall be sentenced... to marry her. The rapist cannot marry any other woman.
(Deuteronomy 22:28-29) Unless, of course, she did not yell or shout during the rape. Then he does not have to marry her.
(Deuteronomy 22:23-24)

In a marriage, a wife must obey her husband's every command.
(Ephesians 5:22-24); (1 Corinthians 11:3); (Colossians 3:18); (1 Timothy 2:11-12 ); (Titus 2:5); (1 Peter 3:1)

During this wonderful Christian marriage, if the righteous heterosexual couple has sex while the wife is on her period, they are to be banished from the village.
(Leviticus 20:18) (Note that this passage is FIVE SENTENCES after the passage stating that homosexuality is a sin. Why is this passage not an obsession among "Christians" like gay marriage?)

In fact, the husband may not even go near his menstruating wife.
(Ezekiel 18:5-6)

A minister can only marry a virgin.
(Leviticus 21:13-14)

Clearly, these are rules designed for happy marriages in the modern world.

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» No Coke! Pepsi! Posted by: kanekoa64
» A matter of intelligence Posted by: YogiBear

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Hopefully,
[Report this comment]
Posted by: bettyn on May 20, 2009 9:46 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
we get beyond this issue very soon. It is NOBODY ELSE'S BUSINESS WHO SOMEONE SLEEPS WITH. Get the government and these crazy churches OUT of our bedrooms!

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Congratulations - you get gay marriage
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Daito on May 20, 2009 10:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
uhhh. OK. Now what? You finally realize what a silly issue this was? What will the left argue for next? Goldfish riparian rights?

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Get over it
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Ahimsa on May 20, 2009 2:34 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is no God
There is no sin other than those committed against the well-being of sentient beings
Snap out of the illusion already
It is th XXI century for God's sake! (wink)

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You want it? You Got It. Now what the H do you have?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: johnwinthrop on May 20, 2009 3:53 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree practically all states will recognize "gay marriages" or civil unions. No state can force a church to perform a gay marriage ceremony. Even under Obama, freedom of religion will have some resilience.

So now you have gay unions. Legal. So what. You can't force people to love gays, gay unions, or gay anything. The only thing I have against gays is the name "gay". I want it to remain a synonym for happy, carefree. How did gay preempt homosexual, and what is wrong with homosexual, if you believe it is normal, which I do. I frankly think it's a tragic life choice, and always will be. Most people won't treat it as normal, even if they say they will. Gays are so desperate. It's sad. But they want "marriage", great. How pathetic. What's so great about marriage anyway? But gays want to "be" like everybody else. Wonderful. Why would anyone sane want to be like "everybody else"?

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I have a solution!!!
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Posted by: olita on May 20, 2009 4:01 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here's a solution that should make everyone happy.

First, separate marriage and civil unions.

Moving forward, MARRIAGE, can only be obtained through a CHURCH. Every church is allowed to set their own standard for who can be MARRIED in that church. CIVIL UNIONS may only be granted by the state, the state MAY NOT perform marriages (kinda like the state doesn't perform bar mitzvahs or first communions or baptisims or any other religous rite). The state must follow equal protection standards and will be required to grant CIVIL UNIONS to every person, gay or straight.

So, people who want to keep marriage "sacred" are protected. MARRIAGE will hensforth be recognized as a religious rite/institution.

Civil Unions are a state recognized legal contract between two people (gay or straight it doesn't matter).

All the marriages on the books now will be grandfathered in and can "stay on the books" as they are.

In short: the State must get out of the marriage business - that's for churches (like baptisims etc.)The State has the power to grant civil unions to everyone but not marriage.

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» RE: I have a solution!!! Posted by: fork
» RE: I have a solution!!! Posted by: olita
» RE: I have a solution!!! Posted by: fork
» RE: I have a solution??? Posted by: kanekoa64
» RE: I have a solution!!! Posted by: rickiey
» RE: I have a solution!!! Posted by: Seranvali
» RE: I have a solution!!! Posted by: YogiBear

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Some Make Big Comments Without Substance
[Report this comment]
Posted by: iris89 on May 20, 2009 5:38 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some make big comments without substance, but are totally unable to show any error in any of my articles. They just want to promote their deviant agenda without regard to whether it is right or not.

Iris89

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Seriously?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: rickiey on May 20, 2009 6:42 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You used "religious" and "truths" together with a straight face?

I don't now whether you deserve an Oscar or a lobotomy.

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» RE: Seriously? Posted by: Seranvali
» RE: Seriously? Posted by: rickiey
» RE: Seriously? Posted by: Seranvali

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Who are we to judge??
[Report this comment]
Posted by: BaconDatty on May 21, 2009 5:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The way I see it is that we have no right to judge. If two people of the same gender want to be together, then so be it. Its THEIR lives and they should be able to do what makes THEM happy. Who are WE to judge?

RT
Privacy Center

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Let's Remember What Country We're In...
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Posted by: kanekoa64 on May 21, 2009 5:47 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's America.
Land of the FREE. Free to believe in whatever invisible overlord you want.
Free to live a lifestyle in your own fashion, to the benefit of your community and loved ones. Free to pursue the elusive element of happiness using whatever carrot on a stick gets you up in the damn morning to pursue that end.
AND.. free to love, cherish, caress, screw, dress up in rubber and clown shoes for while taking polaroids of you dripping candle wax on your privates that you damn well please. If your Hetero, Homo, or Asexual, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks about what you do in your own, paid for by you and your significant other, house, as long as it's not illegal or harmful to yourself or anyone else. You know why?

BECAUSE IT'S NOBODY ELSES DAMN BUSINESS, THATS WHY!!

Sitting in judgement over others because their belief damns THEM if they stray from their self set guidelines is arrogant, which is a SIN, by the way.
Does it adversely effect a healthy marriage to observe or approve of someone else's, just because it's non traditional? NO, IT DOESN'T!
Nor does it lower the "morality" of our country any more than having some Bible thumping prick calling everyone who doesn't behave like he does immoral or evil. There have been and always will be, forever and ever, Homosexual humans in the world. They are in our families, offices and every job you can imagine. They are as lovely or as assholish as you or I.
Homosexuality is natural, folks. It's not just a human thing, either. It's been a fact since day one of the evolution of sexual reproduction, so get over yourselves, Religinoids. I know quite a few as friends and family and some have been "married" longer and more faithfully than most "straight" couples I know. Just remember, when the urge to be a judgmental sh-thead rises in your righteous little brain, repeat to yourself as many times as needed,
"MIND MY OWN BUSINESS AND KEEP IT TO MYSELF!"
Be prepared to take years to get used to it.
Deprogramming is a bitch.

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Same sex MARRIAGE is not a "fundamental right"
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Posted by: login@bugmenot.com on May 21, 2009 7:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Same sex UNIONS are a fundamental right.

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Definition People!
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Posted by: definition on May 21, 2009 7:26 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article fails to address the main reason I have a problem with gay marriage aside from my religious beliefs...the fact that the very definition of marriage is that it is between a MAN and a WOMAN! Am I allowed to call myself a Senator even if I'm not a member of the Senate...just because I really want to be? No! It's the same difference! The definition of the word is not for anyone except the joining of a MAN and WOMAN! Get over it and develop a new term for yourselves and embrace that. The word MARRIAGE is NOT defined for GAYS!!! Respect words and their intended meanings!

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» Words and meanings... Posted by: mjglow
» RE: Definition People! Posted by: RuthDBWalker
» Respect PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!! Posted by: kanekoa64

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let reality sink in
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Posted by: iris89 on May 21, 2009 7:37 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hi Everyone

To my two previous post, the 2 nd. And 3 rd. below the article received many absurd post that were alike in substance but lacked any substance with respect my post and the articles linked to it. All these post can be easily summed up as follows:

One, Unreasonable name calling an innuendos directed at me.

Two, Denouncing of the oldest standards book on earth – started in 1,500 BC, the Bible. Clearly showing that the posters were ignorant with respect comprehension and/or understanding of the inspired word of Almighty God (YHWH), the Bible.

These individuals clearly show their ignorance and failure to comprehend the Bible as God clearly said in it in Genesis, Adam and Eve, NOT ADAM AND STEVE!

Let’s look at the Bible as a Standard, go to:

STANDARDS ARE PROMULGATED NOT PROVEN BUT USED:

linked text

Three, Failure to deal in any substantive way with the facts brought out in my post and/or the articles it was linked to.

Now this is NOT right for individuals to make nasty and unintelligent replies to an intelligent post, but utterly fail to accept the challenge I threw out which is as follows:

“
NOW I CHALLENGE OUT TO ONE AND ALL TO SHOW A SINGLE FACTUAL ERROR IN WANY OF MY ARTICLES! Now, Let's start accepting the facts and being objective instead of being none objective and closed minded. I am just the bearer of the truth, the facts, NOT the maker of the facts! I am just a messenger of the truth which all should want if they are honest with them selves in keeping with John 8:32, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (Authorized King James Bible; AV).”

Iris89

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» RE: let reality sink in Posted by: co longhorn
» RE: let reality sink in Posted by: Seranvali
» RE: let reality sink in Posted by: iris89
» You are filled with pride Posted by: Defenestrator
» RE: let reality sink in Posted by: iris89

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Learn the truth about Child Molestation and Sodomy:
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Posted by: iris89 on May 21, 2009 7:45 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Learn the truth about Child Molestation and Sodomy:

Child Sexual Molestation's - Two Religious Groups Different Take On The Problem:

linked text

Discourse on Sodomy Always Having Been Wrong:

linked text

Also, NOW I CHALLENGE OUT TO ONE AND ALL TO SHOW A SINGLE FACTUAL ERROR IN WANY OF MY ARTICLES! Now, Let's start accepting the facts and being objective instead of being none objective and closed minded. I am just the bearer of the truth, the facts, NOT the maker of the facts! I am just a messenger of the truth which all should want if they are honest with them selves in keeping with John 8:32, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (Authorized King James Bible; AV) .

Now this is NOT right for individuals to make nasty and unintelligent replies to an intelligent post, but utterly fail to accept the challenge I threw out so please no nasty and unintelligent replies or replies not related to factual errors in my articles. Note, nasties and unintelligent replies will not be answered.

Iris89

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» Intelligence? Posted by: YogiBear

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tomackio
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Posted by: tomackio on May 21, 2009 11:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's take a vote. Oh, that's right many states have taken a vote. What were the results? The truth is, that this can only get passed by an unelected judiciary and not by the democratic process of the people voting for it.

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» Let's NOT Vote... Posted by: kanekoa64

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learn the truth about ...
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Posted by: missmoon on May 22, 2009 6:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A pedophile is not a homosexual. I am a clinician who specializes in this field. Pedophiles abuse CHILDREN, often both sexes (Father Porter, an example). The thrill lies in the psychological power over a child in the fantasy of loving...

A gay person seeks a mutual and reciprocal relationship with an apprpriate age mate. Not a child.

Many child rapists are married and in stright relationships.

Regarding your other issues, at first I was angered, then I realised you are hopelessly lost and cannot think with out rules and directions that will get you into heaven. I hope you make it. But in my TRUTH, I have a feeling you'll be back in another life, maybe even gay.

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» RE: learn the truth about ... Posted by: Seranvali
» RE: learn the truth about ... Posted by: QueenieB

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tomackio
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Posted by: tomackio on May 22, 2009 12:09 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The homosexual agenda isn't looking for tolerance. If that were the case they would have no problem ever winning a vote. What people do behind closed doors really is their business. It seems to me that what the are really looking for is approval which is very different from tolerance. I don't think the majority will ever give approval

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» RE: tomackio - You are Correct Posted by: tomackio
» RE: tomackio - You are Correct Posted by: tomackio
» RE: tomackio - You are Correct Posted by: Seranvali
» RE: tomackio - You are Correct Posted by: tomackio
» RE: tomackio Posted by: Seranvali
» RE: tomackio Posted by: tomackio
» RE: tomackio Posted by: mjglow
» RE: tomackio Posted by: Seranvali
» RE: tomackio Posted by: tomackio
» RE: tomackio Posted by: mjglow

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This is Not About Preference or Dislikes...
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Posted by: kanekoa64 on May 23, 2009 3:30 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is about equality.
As a human being, you have the right to live as you choose within the limitations of harming or oppressing others by actions or intent, including yourselves.
Laws that inhibit or marginalize these rights need to changed or removed, regardless of personal preference or prejudice of the lawmaker or society as a whole. It doesn't matter if one group prefers to pursue different lifestyles and BELIEVE any deviation from that preference causes harm. It actually has to be proven logically and agreed upon without bias, otherwise, it doesn't apply to enacting laws that are solely based on one groups intolerance, no matter how much larger that group is compared to any other and in fact, may have impact on members of their own group they may not be aware of, ignore or even persecute. These statements are broad interpretations of laws in effect that seem to work based on logic and unspoken agreements humans include in day to day interactions with each other, for basic functioning.
When we allow ourselves the luxury of building a society that comforts one group over another and in fact, oppresses another, it's criminal to justify it.

I may not like Right Wing conservatives, but I feel they deserve to be heard and exist, even if they transgress into areas which should not be their concern. As far as including Homosexuals as automatic members of a list of criminal deviants, it should be noted that list is almost solely comprised of Heterosexual men, primarily white ones, at least in the U.S.
If you don't like it, deal with it in a way that is allowable within your own beliefs.
Try forgiveness, Christians. It works for the rest of when we have to deal with some of you being righteous or repressive.

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» Thanks Part Three... Posted by: kanekoa64

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I AM ALL FOR GAY and LESBIAN MARRIAGES!
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Posted by: joeocho88 on May 23, 2009 2:18 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why should straight people be able to monopolize the HELL of marriage?

Look at the DIVORCE rate!

Are they afraid that gays and lesbians have a more committed relationship and it isn't even legally sanctioned by the states?

What are people afraid of who don't want to permit gays and lesbians to marry????

I would like to see what the divorce rate for gays and lesbians will be compared to those of the straight population.

Also, the family violence statistics.

AND again I reiterate --WHY SHOULD STRAIGHT PEOPLE HAVE ALL OF THE HELL OF MARRIAGE?

THIS SHOULD BE AVAILABLE TO EVERYBODY!

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MULTIPLE ANSWERS AND RE-ANSWERS WILL NOT CONTINUE:
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Posted by: iris89 on May 24, 2009 9:59 AM   
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MULTIPLE ANSWERS AND RE-ANSWERS WILL NOT CONTINUE:

Some keep posting even after I have answered them. This is ridicules as I do not intend to keep answering and re-answering post of the same dumb basic nature. So I shall answer by type of question to put an end to this nonsense:

FIRST, some question and/or fail to comprehend the the inspired word of Almighty God (YHWH), the Bible.

The inspired word of Almighty God (YHWH), the Bible has been recognized as the truth for over 3,000 years and over six billion copies of it exist. It is the world's oldest standard, go to:

STANDARDS ARE PROMULGATED NOT PROVEN BUT USED:

linked text

Now what is your problem?

Also, check out the following:

THE BIBLE'S HISTORICITY AND CORRECTNESS TESTIFIED TO BY A "PIM"

linked text

And,

A Corroboration Of The Bible Record By A Babylonian Document Found Near Baghdad:

linked text

And,

Bible Claim of Jewish Occupancy of Palestine Around 900 BC By Jar Handle Find

linked text

And,

Civilization and the Bible

linked text

And,

Ignorance of The Bible Leads Some To Make Foolish Charges

linked text

And, the fulfilled prophecies about Jesus (Yeshua) written well in advance of his arrival prove divine inspiration.

Prophecy About Jesus (Yeshua):

linked text

TWO, Deviant life styles that many need to get out of:

Discourse on the Subject of Adultery:

linked text

Discourse Against Deviant Sex Acts and Need For Repentance:

linked text
GOD'S VIEWS ON DEVIANT SEX AND OUTCOMES IN THE PRESENT

linked text

Child Sexual Molestation's - Two Religious Groups Different Take On The Problem:

linked text

Discourse on Sodomy Always Having Been Wrong:

linked text

THIRD, Women as preachers is okay. For details, go to,

linked text

FOURTH, there is no excuse for calling me untrue names as some do. This is both childish and inappropriate.

See Part Two

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MULTIPLE ANSWERS AND RE-ANSWERS WILL NOT CONTINUE: - Part Two
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Posted by: iris89 on May 24, 2009 10:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
FIFTH, "NOW I CHALLENGE OUT TO ONE AND ALL TO SHOW A SINGLE FACTUAL ERROR IN WANY OF MY ARTICLES! Now, Let's start accepting the facts and being objective instead of being none objective and closed minded. I am just the bearer of the truth, the facts, NOT the maker of the facts! I am just a messenger of the truth which all should want if they are honest with them selves in keeping with John 8:32, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (Authorized King James Bible; AV)."


To learn more, check out the following:

[1] http://religioustruths.proboards59.com/ An Educational Referral Forum

[2] http://www.network54.com/Forum/403209 A Forum Devoted to Exposing The False Religion of Islam

[3] http://jude3.proboards92.com/ A Free-Speech Forum For All

[4] http://www.freewebs.com/iris_the_preacher My web site.

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

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More heat than light . . .
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Posted by: Walks-in-Storms on May 24, 2009 10:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Any sociologist, any forensics specialist (lawyer, detective, scientist, etc), would find this "thread" worth reading in its entirety (as I have, finally).

It demonstrates perhaps better than any other here or elsewhere in the internet forums the anatomy and system of our mentally crippled, functionally spastic nation. The discussion here being comprised all but entirely of ideological opinion and proof based upon bias of one sort or the other (Biblical v. "atheist" mostly) - lie told often enough to have become truth (and fact) in the mind of the arguer - there is almost nothing of useful substance.

There are, it would appear, only two possible views. More, every comment (one or two exceptions) amounts to circular argument in one guise or the other, such that anyone looking for any kind of logical process used to sustain an opinion and argument will search absolutely in vain.

Why is it, for instance, that no one discussing what is incontrovertibly an abnormality and dysfunction seems to refuse utterly to discuss alternatives to the fundamentally (and fundamentalist) opposed views? Why the rigid avoidance - thunderously conspicuous by its absence in such an instance - of any discussion or analysis otherwise in depth?

Is one to believe - is it demanded? - that NO homosexual person desires to be otherwise? Were one to accept the idea that some homosexuals would like to be normal - i.e., heterosexual - what does totally ignoring them in the national discourse and the science and scientific research that would otherwise result mean ethically - in responsibility to the individuals in question, in other words?

What makes the matters of homosexuality, "gay marriage," and the like religious - or, even, matters having to do with morality? What would it mean, were we to apply the logic and reasoning having to do with these issues to others the like - other examples of congenital or birth abnormality? Why do we not, for instance (one among many), deal with autism in a similar manner?

Not only does falsehood told often enough become accepted as fact, so does such behavior. I suggest that we might - and we had better - consider that where our future is concerned.

Our relentlessly continual wars, for instance.

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» RE: More heat than light . . . Posted by: Seranvali

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P.S. my last here . . .
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Posted by: Walks-in-Storms on May 24, 2009 10:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Get used to it" - prostitution, gambling, bigamy, marijuana and drugs, even carrying a gun may soon be legal in all fifty states. Alcoholism might become legal - and "normal" - in every state.

What would any or all that prove?

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» RE: P.S. my last here . . . Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: P.S. my last here . . . Posted by: Seranvali

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Give me a break!!
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Posted by: rjs on May 24, 2009 6:07 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Some day, people will look back with amazement and disdain that same-sex couples were denied a fundamental right for so long in America."

---

Uh, excuse me. Homosexuals just started coming out of the closet a few years ago. I do believe you have the fundamental right to reverse course and head back to your closet.

---

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LIARS ARE AT WORK SAYING I SAID THAT WHICH I DID NOT:
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Posted by: iris89 on May 26, 2009 12:42 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
FIRST, I have been informed that someone is posting big lies about as follows:

"Everyone but me is going to Hell'

It simply telling a big lie and is against the truth. I am NOT a judge, but a messenger of the truth. All judging belongs to the Almighty God (YHWH), the Creator of heaven and earth or to his designee Jesus (Yeshua) Christ; I have no part with respect judgment. My job is to make known the truth to all and to expose false doctrine and false practice such as deviant sexual and commercial practices.

But speaking of human justice decisions, the Supreme Court of California has just upheld proposition 22.

SECOND, All have failed to accept my challenge,

"I CHALLENGE YOU OR ANYONE ELSE TO SHOW A SINGLE FACTUAL ERROR IN ANY OF MY RESEARCH PRODUCTS AND/OR ARTICLES."

NOW I HOLD THE SAME CHALLENGE OUT TO ONE AND ALL! Let's start accepting the facts and being objective instead of being none objective and closed minded. I am just the bearer of the truth, the facts, NOT the maker of the facts! I am just a messenger of the truth which all should want if they are honest with them selves in keeping with John 8:32, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (Authorized King James Bible; (Authorized King James Bible; AV)."

Many say untrue items about myself and what I post, but NONE have dared to accept my challenge. Probably because they well know my facts and evidence is in order, but it is NOT what they desire to hear because it means they should change their life style.

THIRD, But nothing contained in the inspired word of Almighty God (YHWH), the Bible, should be taken as a license to continue doing willful wrongs. I am doing a good work of exposing this nature of wrong thinking, for details, go to,

Showing Love By Exposure of False Religion and Doctrine:

linked text

Now I hope you will take this in a constructive way and consider a life style change since Romans 1:19-28 clearly shows deviant sex of all types to be a sin!

Romans 1:19-28, "Because that which is known of God is manifest in them. For God hath manifested it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made. His eternal power also and divinity: so that they are inexcusable.
21 Because that, when they knew God, they have not glorified him as God or given thanks: but became vain in their thoughts. And their foolish heart was darkened.
22 For, professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.
23 And they changed the glory of the incorruptible God into the likeness of the image of a corruptible man and of birds, and of fourfooted beasts and of creeping things.
24 Wherefore, God gave them up to the desires of their heart, unto uncleanness: to dishonour their own bodies among themselves.
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause, God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature.
27 And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts, one towards another: men with men, working that which is filthy and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error.
28 And as they liked not to have God in their knowledge, God delivered them up to a reprobate sense, to do those things which are not convenient." (Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible; DRCB).

Iris89

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Some Are Unreasonable
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Posted by: iris89 on May 26, 2009 7:03 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some do not want to accept the inspired word of Almighty God (YHWH), the Bible, but that is just as dumb as trying to reject the Law of Gravity because they are governed by both. The last post before this one clearly issustrates this type of thinking:

FIRST, some question and/or fail to comprehend the inspired word of Almighty God (YHWH), the Bible.

The inspired word of Almighty God (YHWH), the Bible has been recognized as the truth for over 3,000 years and over six billion copies of it exist. It is the world's oldest standard, go to:

STANDARDS ARE PROMULGATED NOT PROVEN BUT USED:

linked text

Now what is your problem?

Also, check out the following:

THE BIBLE'S HISTORICITY AND CORRECTNESS TESTIFIED TO BY A "PIM"

linked text

And,

A Corroboration Of The Bible Record By A Babylonian Document Found Near Baghdad:

linked text

And,

Bible Claim of Jewish Occupancy of Palestine Around 900 BC By Jar Handle Find

linked text

And,

Civilization and the Bible

linked text

And,

Ignorance of The Bible Leads Some To Make Foolish Charges

linked text

And, the fulfilled prophecies about Jesus (Yeshua) written well in advance of his arrival prove divine inspiration.

Prophecy About Jesus (Yeshua):

linked text

TWO, Deviant life styles that many need to get out of:

Discourse on the Subject of Adultery:

linked text

Discourse Against Deviant Sex Acts and Need For Repentance:

linked text
GOD'S VIEWS ON DEVIANT SEX AND OUTCOMES IN THE PRESENT

linked text

Child Sexual Molestation's - Two Religious Groups Different Take On The Problem:

linked text

Discourse on Sodomy Always Having Been Wrong:

linked text

THIRD, Women as preachers is okay. For details, go to,

linked text

FOURTH, there is no excuse for calling me untrue names as some do. This is both childish and inappropriate.

See Part Two

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Part Two of Some Are Unreasonable
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Posted by: iris89 on May 26, 2009 7:10 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Part Two of Some Are Unreasonable

FIFTH, "NOW I CHALLENGE OUT TO ONE AND ALL TO SHOW A SINGLE FACTUAL ERROR IN WANY OF MY ARTICLES! Now, Let's start accepting the facts and being objective instead of being none objective and closed minded. I am just the bearer of the truth, the facts, NOT the maker of the facts! I am just a messenger of the truth which all should want if they are honest with them selves in keeping with John 8:32, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (Authorized King James Bible; AV)."

SIXTH, Atheist are a class of pyrrhonist skeptics that are unreasonable; whereas, pragmatic skeptics are reasonable and forward looking. Let’s look at this in some detail:

Unbelieving Atheist Do Not Want to Accept Reality

linked text

And,

Pyrrhonist Are Circular In Thought And Can Not Learn or Move On

linked text

And,

Skepticism Is Good Up To The Point Reasonableness Is Surpassed:

linked text

And,

Skepticism With a Purpose and Skepticism Without A Purpose:

linked text

And,

Worldly Critics Are Always Seeking to Destroy Reality They Do Not Want to Accept

linked text

And,

The Saga of Unreasonable Ones Who Reject The Inspired Word of Almighty God (YHWH), the Creator of All there is, the Bible:

linked text

And, as usual, none dare to take on my challenge.

Iris89

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What If Jesus Was Gay...?
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Posted by: kanekoa64 on May 27, 2009 1:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Or, what if Jesus was here to stand against you and anyone who would throw stones at Gods Homosexual children? Did God make a mistake when he made them? Or is there purpose to ALL things unto Heaven? You can't have it both ways, just because YOU don't understand the will of God.

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Life Style Changes Required To Win Jesus (Yeshua) Approval
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Posted by: iris89 on May 27, 2009 5:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Life Style Changes Required To Win Jesus (Yeshua) Approval

Some can not grasp truth which is clearly shown by the dumb speculation about Jesus (Yeshua) Christ in the post just before this one.

Life style changes required to win the approval of Jesus (Yeshua) Christ and his Father Almighty God (YHWH), Creator of all there is. Jesus (Yeshua) has held out many benefits for his genuine true followers, but to be a genuine true follower of Jesus (Yeshua) requires that you bring your life in harmony with his Father’s righteous requirements.

FIRST, Let’s consider the fact, the reality, that there is only one true God. Now here are some educational items to consider:

[1] There Is Only One True God

linked text

[2] Sequel to There Is Only One True God

linked text


[3] Almighty God (YHWH) Is Sovereign Over All

linked text


[4] Discourse on The Name of God (YHWH) You Worship Does Matter:

linked text

[5] Discourse on the Word of God Vs. the Unreliable Word of Men:

linked text

[6] Discourse on What God (YHWH) Considers Acceptable Worship:

linked text


[7] Worshippers of False God(s) Do Not Know How To Deal With Context:

linked text

SECOND, Let’s consider the fact, the reality, about Jesus (Yeshua) Christ and his ransom sacrifice for the benefit of all mankind. Now here are some educational items to consider:

[1] DOCUMENTARY ON OUR SAVIOR JESUS (YESHUA):

linked

[2] the Ransom Provided by Christ and Why Necessary:

linked text

[3] DISCOURSE ON WHAT GOD (YHWH) ASKS OF HIS SON'S FOLLOWERS:

linked text

[4]Jesus (Yeshua) Is The Only Begotten Son of God

linked text

[5] Prophecy About Jesus (Yeshua):

linked text


[6] Sent Ones Are Subordinate Ones:

linked text

[7] Who Came To Earth To Live Among Mankind?

linked text

THIRD, Now check out all these educational articles and come to realize why a life change is necessary.

Iris89

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Alternet Comments:

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Gay Marriage All But Inevitable!!!
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Posted by: Dak on May 19, 2009 1:48 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is probably the best written, most sensible article I have read in a long, long time. It takes a really talented, intelligent writer to cut through and lay bare the arrogance and stupidity of the RRR conservatives. And then to do it with humor, as if the RRR thinks they have a sense of humor! Politically and Constitutionally correct in all manner.
Many thanks to the Author and Editor for letting this gem hit the paper and ink in so clear a fashion!
GMM, Pastor/Chaplain (Ret.)
25 Yr. Retired PS Teacher, Music/Government

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This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
» RE: Give the Holy Spirit a chance Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Screw tolerance. Posted by: Eddie Van Helsing
» Yes, "some" do! Posted by: Curio
» RE: Making Something Legal Does NOT Make It Right: Posted by: Christopher Hobe Morrison
» Irish Workhouses Posted by: LeaderofMen
» RE: Irish Workhouses Posted by: iris89

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Addendum To My Last Post
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Posted by: iris89 on May 19, 2009 8:03 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hi Everyone

Here is something I overlooked adding to my last post:

To assist you and all others in knowing the truth, I have set up an educational forum where facts are presented so all can learn reality. Now go to:

http://religioustruths.proboards59.com/

An Educational Referral Forum for those objective individuals that are interested in the truth and NOT bigoted none objective 'crappola.'

NOW I CHALLENGE OUT TO ONE AND ALL TO SHOW A SINGLE FACTUAL ERROR IN WANY OF MY ARTICLES! Now, Let's start accepting the facts and being objective instead of being none objective and closed minded. I am just the bearer of the truth, the facts, NOT the maker of the facts! I am just a messenger of the truth which all should want if they are honest with them selves in keeping with John 8:32, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (Authorized King James Bible; AV) .

Iris89

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» RE: Addendum To My Last Post Posted by: reverendnick
» Factual rebuttal Posted by: abbadon2007
» RE: How's that for factual rebuttal Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Don't you "hi" me, troll Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Don't you "hi" me, troll Posted by: Seranvali
» RE: Addendum To My Last Post Posted by: Aimleft
» Hey Biblical Expert Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: Hey Biblical Expert Posted by: iris89
» RE: Hey Biblical Expert Posted by: Seranvali
» RE: Hey Biblical Expert Posted by: stormy
» RE: Hey Biblical Expert Posted by: Seranvali
» RE: Hey Biblical Expert Posted by: iris89
» RE: Hey Biblical Expert Posted by: Seranvali

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Who Cares?
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Posted by: Honky the Nihilist VI on May 20, 2009 12:06 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Marriage is a relic. It should not exist in an legal sense.

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» RE: Who Cares? Posted by: stormy
» RE: Who Cares? Posted by: snax
» RE: Who Cares? Posted by: johnwinthrop

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Does Gender Matter?
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Posted by: RustyOldCar on May 20, 2009 3:05 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It seems to me that this writer, and his "cousin" miss the most important question. Aside from the personal, cute jabs, and the obvious disdain for any religious influence on jurisprudence; these writers miss the obvious question: In marriage, does gender matter? It is not "gay marriage" the he is extolling, it is "marriage as a genderless institution" that "gay marriage" advocates, well, advocate.

Now, this is not the same question as "does skin color or race matter?" in marriage. We, as a country have rightly answered no.

But, you cannot simply extent that "rights" argument to "genderless marriage." It simply does not follow.

I believe that gender-based marriage -- aka, one man, one woman -- marriage does matter, for a host of reasons that cannot be explained here and are never touched by writers like Mr. Abernathy (both of them). But I might suggest you Google "Genderless Marriage, Institutional Realities, and Judicial Elision" as a starter to get a different perspective on this important topic.

I am not "against gays." I am in favor of a distinction -- legally -- between a gender-based marriage (one man, one woman) and one that is not gender-based.

In my view, a gay person has the same right that I do (in my state, thankfully); and that is to marry - a person of the opposite sex. A gay person can marry, just not someone of the same sex.

Some may think this small-minded, but it does expose the most obvious misnomer which is that many states do not allow gays to marry. No, we do not allow gays to marry someone of the same sex -- the same gender.

And, that is not prejudice. Unless you don't think that gender matters.

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» RE: Does Gender Matter? Posted by: cmaciain
» RE: Does Gender Matter? Posted by: mjglow
» RE: Does Gender Matter? Posted by: katvilani
» RE: Does Gender Matter? Posted by: acmwallace
» RE: Does Gender Matter? Posted by: Seranvali
» RE: Does Gender Matter? Posted by: EYEAM4ANARCHY

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Just like we look back on...
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Posted by: kiel on May 20, 2009 4:56 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...the fact that women couldn't vote, or slavery, or Jim Crow laws, or any number of former laws that denied large groups of people basic human rights. We'll look back and ask, WTF?

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Does anyone here know what it means to be conservative?
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Posted by: lisafrequency on May 20, 2009 5:22 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a real political conservative I see no reason what so ever to interfere in the private lives of others. Who cares one way or another if gays can marry? Let them do what they want to do. Stop trying to bring the bible into it. Keep church and state separate.

Get this straight political conservatism has nothing to do with regulating the morals of others.

Most political conservatives believe in minding their own business and and keeping the government out of their personal life.

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All fifty states . . .
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Posted by: Walks-in-Storms on May 20, 2009 5:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And by then we'll another term and ceremony describing and celebrating the original and traditional union. As to whether we'll get over the idea that one can change a fact by changing how it is represented in words one can't say. Truth made by repeating a lie often enough to confuse - especially the youth of the society in question - doesn't change the truth. Just minds.

"Gay marriage" will always be just that, and both government and public will go on asking what kind of "marriage" the principals have.

As a society and nation we're pretty sick politically, economically, ideologically, and more - perhaps terminally so - and nothing so accurately serves as a metaphor of the sickness than the way homosexuality is being treated. For the tacticians who might see this, consider what this "issue" (whoo, the double entendred there is smashing!) means for others we might - almost certainly will - handle the same way.

Were this a ship, and I was aboard, I'd be thinking (as my wife and our family are) of manning the lifeboats.

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» RE: All fifty states . . .SOON! Posted by: kanekoa64

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what happen in California then?
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Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars on May 20, 2009 5:58 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
really what happen in California then? I guess the courts have to fix what the people "the stupid ones, you know the plebs" messed up something simple. Wait, didn't the Prop 8 vote come on the same night as the general election, you know the same night some black guy from Chicago won the presidency? I see the Mormon Church really came a long way eh or this is what happens when you get the majority to vote, it might not go your way.

Should Gay partners have the same "legal" rights as heterosexual couples: Yes

Should Gays be allowed to marry however: yes

Should Gay Marriage however be forced down my throat like a ball gag: no

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» The Same Courts that validated slavery Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars

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I am a Lesbian
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Posted by: missmoon on May 20, 2009 6:48 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a lesbian and will be marrying my partner in Massachusetts this July. I do not believe in the Bible as the word of God, therefore I find the Christian "truth sayers" offensive at the very least. My right to marry is a LEGAL issue, not religious a one! If you want to marry a person of the opposite gender great! I ask, why did you choose to be a heterosexual rather than homosexual ... oh! it wasn't a choice? Go figure.

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» RE: I am a Lesbian Posted by: JefffromCA
» RE: I am a Lesbian Posted by: missmoon
» RE: I am a Lesbian Posted by: Seranvali

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the bible.... ugh.....
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Posted by: dsmidiman on May 20, 2009 6:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I get so tired of hearing conservatives and so called religious people quoting bits and pieces of the bible as "proof" that thier close minded dictorial way of thinking is correct and the way "GOD" intended us to believe and live. The bible was written by MAN!! It reads like a horoscope. You can go through and pick out individual bits and peices and present them in a way that would support just about anything. Example: God is against abortion (the killing of unborn human beings) But apparently GOD sanctions the slaughter of thousands of living beings in wars, or the death of thousands in need by neglect so those who are making the laws and already living like kings can prosper even more. God doesn't want us to abort unborn fetuses for ANY reason yet he sanctions the use of hidious torture techniques (sometimes resulting in death) used to aquire false confessions in order to support an illegal invasion of another country that kills thousands of innocent men women and children in order to make billions of dollars. It's rediculous the hypocrasy that exists in the far right so called religious people of this country. Who the hell cares what consenting adults do with each other when it comes to sharing thier lives and bodies with each other. The few same sex couples of I know and have known over the years are the most compassionate loving people I have ever met. I don't find the physical attraction between gays and lesbians to be something I like but I don't like brocholie either. But that doesn't mean I think anyone who eats brocholie should be denied the same protection against food contamination or any of the other regulations in place to keep food safe and beneficial to all. religion in itself it not a bad thing. I think the core phylosophy of religion is good. Jesus takes a basket of bread and feeds hundreds of starving people, things like that, things that are good for all mankind. It's the constant interpretation of the bible by those who want to dictate to all others how to live and believe that has destroyed religion in this country....

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None of the government's business
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Posted by: Eddie Van Helsing on May 20, 2009 6:58 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Relationships between consenting adults are none of the government's or society's business, and we could cut through a lot of the bullshit surrounding marriage by recognizing this and adjusting policy accordingly.

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Let the churches
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Posted by: JefffromCA on May 20, 2009 9:25 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Have ceremonies for those they choose to rent out the church. This should not be the issue. I would not want to force any church or similar private organization do anything it did not want to do.

The courts are going to decide on the basic issue of issuing marriage licenses to two people who want to have the benefits of sanctioned commitment. And pay the marriage penalty. The idea that marriage needs "protection" because gays want to get married is simply preposterous.

If a church does not want to perform a ceremony that's all it should say. Getting involved with the politics should endanger their tax free status. But, then again here I go, trying to talk about organized religion doing something logical. I am sorry, I keep forgetting that religion and logic do not go together.

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Let's have bible-based marriage laws for everybody!
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Posted by: Defenestrator on May 20, 2009 9:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's be consistent! Bible-based rules on marriage for everybody, not just gays. Here's some suggestions from the Good Book (King James Version, written in 1611):

As homosexual sex is a sin
(Leviticus 20:13); (Romans 1:26-27)
We will outlaw gay marriage. Although to be accurate, the Bible does not ever mention marriage between men or marriage between women. Just like conservatives, it is entirely focused on the gay sex act and not loving partnerships.

No man shall be allowed to marry a woman who has been divorced.
(Matthew 5:32)

No marriage for widows (unless it is to her brother-in-law, see below). Women whose husbands have died are to refrain from intimacy and pleasure for the rest of their lives.
(1 Timothy 5:5-15) (that passage translated into modern English)

A widow is allowed to marry her brother-in-law, if her dead husband never impregnated her with a son. However- if he refuses to marry her, she is to pull off one of his sandals and spit in his face, and from that point on his family is to be known as "The Family Of The Man Whose Sandal Was Pulled Off."
(Deuteronomy 25:5-10) (that passage translated into modern English)

If a man rapes a woman he shall be sentenced... to marry her. The rapist cannot marry any other woman.
(Deuteronomy 22:28-29) Unless, of course, she did not yell or shout during the rape. Then he does not have to marry her.
(Deuteronomy 22:23-24)

In a marriage, a wife must obey her husband's every command.
(Ephesians 5:22-24); (1 Corinthians 11:3); (Colossians 3:18); (1 Timothy 2:11-12 ); (Titus 2:5); (1 Peter 3:1)

During this wonderful Christian marriage, if the righteous heterosexual couple has sex while the wife is on her period, they are to be banished from the village.
(Leviticus 20:18) (Note that this passage is FIVE SENTENCES after the passage stating that homosexuality is a sin. Why is this passage not an obsession among "Christians" like gay marriage?)

In fact, the husband may not even go near his menstruating wife.
(Ezekiel 18:5-6)

A minister can only marry a virgin.
(Leviticus 21:13-14)

Clearly, these are rules designed for happy marriages in the modern world.

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» No Coke! Pepsi! Posted by: kanekoa64
» A matter of intelligence Posted by: YogiBear

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Hopefully,
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Posted by: bettyn on May 20, 2009 9:46 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
we get beyond this issue very soon. It is NOBODY ELSE'S BUSINESS WHO SOMEONE SLEEPS WITH. Get the government and these crazy churches OUT of our bedrooms!

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Congratulations - you get gay marriage
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Posted by: Daito on May 20, 2009 10:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
uhhh. OK. Now what? You finally realize what a silly issue this was? What will the left argue for next? Goldfish riparian rights?

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Get over it
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Posted by: Ahimsa on May 20, 2009 2:34 PM   
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There is no God
There is no sin other than those committed against the well-being of sentient beings
Snap out of the illusion already
It is th XXI century for God's sake! (wink)

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You want it? You Got It. Now what the H do you have?
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Posted by: johnwinthrop on May 20, 2009 3:53 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree practically all states will recognize "gay marriages" or civil unions. No state can force a church to perform a gay marriage ceremony. Even under Obama, freedom of religion will have some resilience.

So now you have gay unions. Legal. So what. You can't force people to love gays, gay unions, or gay anything. The only thing I have against gays is the name "gay". I want it to remain a synonym for happy, carefree. How did gay preempt homosexual, and what is wrong with homosexual, if you believe it is normal, which I do. I frankly think it's a tragic life choice, and always will be. Most people won't treat it as normal, even if they say they will. Gays are so desperate. It's sad. But they want "marriage", great. How pathetic. What's so great about marriage anyway? But gays want to "be" like everybody else. Wonderful. Why would anyone sane want to be like "everybody else"?

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I have a solution!!!
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Posted by: olita on May 20, 2009 4:01 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here's a solution that should make everyone happy.

First, separate marriage and civil unions.

Moving forward, MARRIAGE, can only be obtained through a CHURCH. Every church is allowed to set their own standard for who can be MARRIED in that church. CIVIL UNIONS may only be granted by the state, the state MAY NOT perform marriages (kinda like the state doesn't perform bar mitzvahs or first communions or baptisims or any other religous rite). The state must follow equal protection standards and will be required to grant CIVIL UNIONS to every person, gay or straight.

So, people who want to keep marriage "sacred" are protected. MARRIAGE will hensforth be recognized as a religious rite/institution.

Civil Unions are a state recognized legal contract between two people (gay or straight it doesn't matter).

All the marriages on the books now will be grandfathered in and can "stay on the books" as they are.

In short: the State must get out of the marriage business - that's for churches (like baptisims etc.)The State has the power to grant civil unions to everyone but not marriage.

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» RE: I have a solution!!! Posted by: fork
» RE: I have a solution!!! Posted by: olita
» RE: I have a solution!!! Posted by: fork
» RE: I have a solution??? Posted by: kanekoa64
» RE: I have a solution!!! Posted by: rickiey
» RE: I have a solution!!! Posted by: Seranvali
» RE: I have a solution!!! Posted by: YogiBear

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Some Make Big Comments Without Substance
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Posted by: iris89 on May 20, 2009 5:38 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some make big comments without substance, but are totally unable to show any error in any of my articles. They just want to promote their deviant agenda without regard to whether it is right or not.

Iris89

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Seriously?
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Posted by: rickiey on May 20, 2009 6:42 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You used "religious" and "truths" together with a straight face?

I don't now whether you deserve an Oscar or a lobotomy.

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» RE: Seriously? Posted by: Seranvali
» RE: Seriously? Posted by: rickiey
» RE: Seriously? Posted by: Seranvali

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Who are we to judge??
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Posted by: BaconDatty on May 21, 2009 5:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The way I see it is that we have no right to judge. If two people of the same gender want to be together, then so be it. Its THEIR lives and they should be able to do what makes THEM happy. Who are WE to judge?

RT
Privacy Center

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Let's Remember What Country We're In...
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Posted by: kanekoa64 on May 21, 2009 5:47 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's America.
Land of the FREE. Free to believe in whatever invisible overlord you want.
Free to live a lifestyle in your own fashion, to the benefit of your community and loved ones. Free to pursue the elusive element of happiness using whatever carrot on a stick gets you up in the damn morning to pursue that end.
AND.. free to love, cherish, caress, screw, dress up in rubber and clown shoes for while taking polaroids of you dripping candle wax on your privates that you damn well please. If your Hetero, Homo, or Asexual, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks about what you do in your own, paid for by you and your significant other, house, as long as it's not illegal or harmful to yourself or anyone else. You know why?

BECAUSE IT'S NOBODY ELSES DAMN BUSINESS, THATS WHY!!

Sitting in judgement over others because their belief damns THEM if they stray from their self set guidelines is arrogant, which is a SIN, by the way.
Does it adversely effect a healthy marriage to observe or approve of someone else's, just because it's non traditional? NO, IT DOESN'T!
Nor does it lower the "morality" of our country any more than having some Bible thumping prick calling everyone who doesn't behave like he does immoral or evil. There have been and always will be, forever and ever, Homosexual humans in the world. They are in our families, offices and every job you can imagine. They are as lovely or as assholish as you or I.
Homosexuality is natural, folks. It's not just a human thing, either. It's been a fact since day one of the evolution of sexual reproduction, so get over yourselves, Religinoids. I know quite a few as friends and family and some have been "married" longer and more faithfully than most "straight" couples I know. Just remember, when the urge to be a judgmental sh-thead rises in your righteous little brain, repeat to yourself as many times as needed,
"MIND MY OWN BUSINESS AND KEEP IT TO MYSELF!"
Be prepared to take years to get used to it.
Deprogramming is a bitch.

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Same sex MARRIAGE is not a "fundamental right"
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Posted by: login@bugmenot.com on May 21, 2009 7:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Same sex UNIONS are a fundamental right.

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Definition People!
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Posted by: definition on May 21, 2009 7:26 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article fails to address the main reason I have a problem with gay marriage aside from my religious beliefs...the fact that the very definition of marriage is that it is between a MAN and a WOMAN! Am I allowed to call myself a Senator even if I'm not a member of the Senate...just because I really want to be? No! It's the same difference! The definition of the word is not for anyone except the joining of a MAN and WOMAN! Get over it and develop a new term for yourselves and embrace that. The word MARRIAGE is NOT defined for GAYS!!! Respect words and their intended meanings!

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» Words and meanings... Posted by: mjglow
» RE: Definition People! Posted by: RuthDBWalker
» Respect PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!! Posted by: kanekoa64

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let reality sink in
[Report this comment]
Posted by: iris89 on May 21, 2009 7:37 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hi Everyone

To my two previous post, the 2 nd. And 3 rd. below the article received many absurd post that were alike in substance but lacked any substance with respect my post and the articles linked to it. All these post can be easily summed up as follows:

One, Unreasonable name calling an innuendos directed at me.

Two, Denouncing of the oldest standards book on earth – started in 1,500 BC, the Bible. Clearly showing that the posters were ignorant with respect comprehension and/or understanding of the inspired word of Almighty God (YHWH), the Bible.

These individuals clearly show their ignorance and failure to comprehend the Bible as God clearly said in it in Genesis, Adam and Eve, NOT ADAM AND STEVE!

Let’s look at the Bible as a Standard, go to:

STANDARDS ARE PROMULGATED NOT PROVEN BUT USED:

linked text

Three, Failure to deal in any substantive way with the facts brought out in my post and/or the articles it was linked to.

Now this is NOT right for individuals to make nasty and unintelligent replies to an intelligent post, but utterly fail to accept the challenge I threw out which is as follows:

“
NOW I CHALLENGE OUT TO ONE AND ALL TO SHOW A SINGLE FACTUAL ERROR IN WANY OF MY ARTICLES! Now, Let's start accepting the facts and being objective instead of being none objective and closed minded. I am just the bearer of the truth, the facts, NOT the maker of the facts! I am just a messenger of the truth which all should want if they are honest with them selves in keeping with John 8:32, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (Authorized King James Bible; AV).”

Iris89

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» RE: let reality sink in Posted by: co longhorn
» RE: let reality sink in Posted by: Seranvali
» RE: let reality sink in Posted by: iris89
» You are filled with pride Posted by: Defenestrator
» RE: let reality sink in Posted by: iris89

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Learn the truth about Child Molestation and Sodomy:
[Report this comment]
Posted by: iris89 on May 21, 2009 7:45 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Learn the truth about Child Molestation and Sodomy:

Child Sexual Molestation's - Two Religious Groups Different Take On The Problem:

linked text

Discourse on Sodomy Always Having Been Wrong:

linked text

Also, NOW I CHALLENGE OUT TO ONE AND ALL TO SHOW A SINGLE FACTUAL ERROR IN WANY OF MY ARTICLES! Now, Let's start accepting the facts and being objective instead of being none objective and closed minded. I am just the bearer of the truth, the facts, NOT the maker of the facts! I am just a messenger of the truth which all should want if they are honest with them selves in keeping with John 8:32, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (Authorized King James Bible; AV) .

Now this is NOT right for individuals to make nasty and unintelligent replies to an intelligent post, but utterly fail to accept the challenge I threw out so please no nasty and unintelligent replies or replies not related to factual errors in my articles. Note, nasties and unintelligent replies will not be answered.

Iris89

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» Intelligence? Posted by: YogiBear

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tomackio
[Report this comment]
Posted by: tomackio on May 21, 2009 11:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's take a vote. Oh, that's right many states have taken a vote. What were the results? The truth is, that this can only get passed by an unelected judiciary and not by the democratic process of the people voting for it.

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» Let's NOT Vote... Posted by: kanekoa64

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learn the truth about ...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: missmoon on May 22, 2009 6:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A pedophile is not a homosexual. I am a clinician who specializes in this field. Pedophiles abuse CHILDREN, often both sexes (Father Porter, an example). The thrill lies in the psychological power over a child in the fantasy of loving...

A gay person seeks a mutual and reciprocal relationship with an apprpriate age mate. Not a child.

Many child rapists are married and in stright relationships.

Regarding your other issues, at first I was angered, then I realised you are hopelessly lost and cannot think with out rules and directions that will get you into heaven. I hope you make it. But in my TRUTH, I have a feeling you'll be back in another life, maybe even gay.

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» RE: learn the truth about ... Posted by: Seranvali
» RE: learn the truth about ... Posted by: QueenieB

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tomackio
[Report this comment]
Posted by: tomackio on May 22, 2009 12:09 PM   
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The homosexual agenda isn't looking for tolerance. If that were the case they would have no problem ever winning a vote. What people do behind closed doors really is their business. It seems to me that what the are really looking for is approval which is very different from tolerance. I don't think the majority will ever give approval

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This is Not About Preference or Dislikes...
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Posted by: kanekoa64 on May 23, 2009 3:30 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is about equality.
As a human being, you have the right to live as you choose within the limitations of harming or oppressing others by actions or intent, including yourselves.
Laws that inhibit or marginalize these rights need to changed or removed, regardless of personal preference or prejudice of the lawmaker or society as a whole. It doesn't matter if one group prefers to pursue different lifestyles and BELIEVE any deviation from that preference causes harm. It actually has to be proven logically and agreed upon without bias, otherwise, it doesn't apply to enacting laws that are solely based on one groups intolerance, no matter how much larger that group is compared to any other and in fact, may have impact on members of their own group they may not be aware of, ignore or even persecute. These statements are broad interpretations of laws in effect that seem to work based on logic and unspoken agreements humans include in day to day interactions with each other, for basic functioning.
When we allow ourselves the luxury of building a society that comforts one group over another and in fact, oppresses another, it's criminal to justify it.

I may not like Right Wing conservatives, but I feel they deserve to be heard and exist, even if they transgress into areas which should not be their concern. As far as including Homosexuals as automatic members of a list of criminal deviants, it should be noted that list is almost solely comprised of Heterosexual men, primarily white ones, at least in the U.S.
If you don't like it, deal with it in a way that is allowable within your own beliefs.
Try forgiveness, Christians. It works for the rest of when we have to deal with some of you being righteous or repressive.

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» Thanks Part Three... Posted by: kanekoa64

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I AM ALL FOR GAY and LESBIAN MARRIAGES!
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Posted by: joeocho88 on May 23, 2009 2:18 PM   
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Why should straight people be able to monopolize the HELL of marriage?

Look at the DIVORCE rate!

Are they afraid that gays and lesbians have a more committed relationship and it isn't even legally sanctioned by the states?

What are people afraid of who don't want to permit gays and lesbians to marry????

I would like to see what the divorce rate for gays and lesbians will be compared to those of the straight population.

Also, the family violence statistics.

AND again I reiterate --WHY SHOULD STRAIGHT PEOPLE HAVE ALL OF THE HELL OF MARRIAGE?

THIS SHOULD BE AVAILABLE TO EVERYBODY!

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MULTIPLE ANSWERS AND RE-ANSWERS WILL NOT CONTINUE:
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Posted by: iris89 on May 24, 2009 9:59 AM   
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MULTIPLE ANSWERS AND RE-ANSWERS WILL NOT CONTINUE:

Some keep posting even after I have answered them. This is ridicules as I do not intend to keep answering and re-answering post of the same dumb basic nature. So I shall answer by type of question to put an end to this nonsense:

FIRST, some question and/or fail to comprehend the the inspired word of Almighty God (YHWH), the Bible.

The inspired word of Almighty God (YHWH), the Bible has been recognized as the truth for over 3,000 years and over six billion copies of it exist. It is the world's oldest standard, go to:

STANDARDS ARE PROMULGATED NOT PROVEN BUT USED:

linked text

Now what is your problem?

Also, check out the following:

THE BIBLE'S HISTORICITY AND CORRECTNESS TESTIFIED TO BY A "PIM"

linked text

And,

A Corroboration Of The Bible Record By A Babylonian Document Found Near Baghdad:

linked text

And,

Bible Claim of Jewish Occupancy of Palestine Around 900 BC By Jar Handle Find

linked text

And,

Civilization and the Bible

linked text

And,

Ignorance of The Bible Leads Some To Make Foolish Charges

linked text

And, the fulfilled prophecies about Jesus (Yeshua) written well in advance of his arrival prove divine inspiration.

Prophecy About Jesus (Yeshua):

linked text

TWO, Deviant life styles that many need to get out of:

Discourse on the Subject of Adultery:

linked text

Discourse Against Deviant Sex Acts and Need For Repentance:

linked text
GOD'S VIEWS ON DEVIANT SEX AND OUTCOMES IN THE PRESENT

linked text

Child Sexual Molestation's - Two Religious Groups Different Take On The Problem:

linked text

Discourse on Sodomy Always Having Been Wrong:

linked text

THIRD, Women as preachers is okay. For details, go to,

linked text

FOURTH, there is no excuse for calling me untrue names as some do. This is both childish and inappropriate.

See Part Two

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MULTIPLE ANSWERS AND RE-ANSWERS WILL NOT CONTINUE: - Part Two
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Posted by: iris89 on May 24, 2009 10:05 AM   
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FIFTH, "NOW I CHALLENGE OUT TO ONE AND ALL TO SHOW A SINGLE FACTUAL ERROR IN WANY OF MY ARTICLES! Now, Let's start accepting the facts and being objective instead of being none objective and closed minded. I am just the bearer of the truth, the facts, NOT the maker of the facts! I am just a messenger of the truth which all should want if they are honest with them selves in keeping with John 8:32, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (Authorized King James Bible; AV)."


To learn more, check out the following:

[1] http://religioustruths.proboards59.com/ An Educational Referral Forum

[2] http://www.network54.com/Forum/403209 A Forum Devoted to Exposing The False Religion of Islam

[3] http://jude3.proboards92.com/ A Free-Speech Forum For All

[4] http://www.freewebs.com/iris_the_preacher My web site.

Your Friend in Christ Iris89

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More heat than light . . .
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Posted by: Walks-in-Storms on May 24, 2009 10:41 AM   
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Any sociologist, any forensics specialist (lawyer, detective, scientist, etc), would find this "thread" worth reading in its entirety (as I have, finally).

It demonstrates perhaps better than any other here or elsewhere in the internet forums the anatomy and system of our mentally crippled, functionally spastic nation. The discussion here being comprised all but entirely of ideological opinion and proof based upon bias of one sort or the other (Biblical v. "atheist" mostly) - lie told often enough to have become truth (and fact) in the mind of the arguer - there is almost nothing of useful substance.

There are, it would appear, only two possible views. More, every comment (one or two exceptions) amounts to circular argument in one guise or the other, such that anyone looking for any kind of logical process used to sustain an opinion and argument will search absolutely in vain.

Why is it, for instance, that no one discussing what is incontrovertibly an abnormality and dysfunction seems to refuse utterly to discuss alternatives to the fundamentally (and fundamentalist) opposed views? Why the rigid avoidance - thunderously conspicuous by its absence in such an instance - of any discussion or analysis otherwise in depth?

Is one to believe - is it demanded? - that NO homosexual person desires to be otherwise? Were one to accept the idea that some homosexuals would like to be normal - i.e., heterosexual - what does totally ignoring them in the national discourse and the science and scientific research that would otherwise result mean ethically - in responsibility to the individuals in question, in other words?

What makes the matters of homosexuality, "gay marriage," and the like religious - or, even, matters having to do with morality? What would it mean, were we to apply the logic and reasoning having to do with these issues to others the like - other examples of congenital or birth abnormality? Why do we not, for instance (one among many), deal with autism in a similar manner?

Not only does falsehood told often enough become accepted as fact, so does such behavior. I suggest that we might - and we had better - consider that where our future is concerned.

Our relentlessly continual wars, for instance.

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» RE: More heat than light . . . Posted by: Seranvali

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P.S. my last here . . .
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Posted by: Walks-in-Storms on May 24, 2009 10:51 AM   
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"Get used to it" - prostitution, gambling, bigamy, marijuana and drugs, even carrying a gun may soon be legal in all fifty states. Alcoholism might become legal - and "normal" - in every state.

What would any or all that prove?

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» RE: P.S. my last here . . . Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: P.S. my last here . . . Posted by: Seranvali

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Give me a break!!
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Posted by: rjs on May 24, 2009 6:07 PM   
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"Some day, people will look back with amazement and disdain that same-sex couples were denied a fundamental right for so long in America."

---

Uh, excuse me. Homosexuals just started coming out of the closet a few years ago. I do believe you have the fundamental right to reverse course and head back to your closet.

---

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LIARS ARE AT WORK SAYING I SAID THAT WHICH I DID NOT:
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Posted by: iris89 on May 26, 2009 12:42 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
FIRST, I have been informed that someone is posting big lies about as follows:

"Everyone but me is going to Hell'

It simply telling a big lie and is against the truth. I am NOT a judge, but a messenger of the truth. All judging belongs to the Almighty God (YHWH), the Creator of heaven and earth or to his designee Jesus (Yeshua) Christ; I have no part with respect judgment. My job is to make known the truth to all and to expose false doctrine and false practice such as deviant sexual and commercial practices.

But speaking of human justice decisions, the Supreme Court of California has just upheld proposition 22.

SECOND, All have failed to accept my challenge,

"I CHALLENGE YOU OR ANYONE ELSE TO SHOW A SINGLE FACTUAL ERROR IN ANY OF MY RESEARCH PRODUCTS AND/OR ARTICLES."

NOW I HOLD THE SAME CHALLENGE OUT TO ONE AND ALL! Let's start accepting the facts and being objective instead of being none objective and closed minded. I am just the bearer of the truth, the facts, NOT the maker of the facts! I am just a messenger of the truth which all should want if they are honest with them selves in keeping with John 8:32, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (Authorized King James Bible; (Authorized King James Bible; AV)."

Many say untrue items about myself and what I post, but NONE have dared to accept my challenge. Probably because they well know my facts and evidence is in order, but it is NOT what they desire to hear because it means they should change their life style.

THIRD, But nothing contained in the inspired word of Almighty God (YHWH), the Bible, should be taken as a license to continue doing willful wrongs. I am doing a good work of exposing this nature of wrong thinking, for details, go to,

Showing Love By Exposure of False Religion and Doctrine:

linked text

Now I hope you will take this in a constructive way and consider a life style change since Romans 1:19-28 clearly shows deviant sex of all types to be a sin!

Romans 1:19-28, "Because that which is known of God is manifest in them. For God hath manifested it unto them.
20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made. His eternal power also and divinity: so that they are inexcusable.
21 Because that, when they knew God, they have not glorified him as God or given thanks: but became vain in their thoughts. And their foolish heart was darkened.
22 For, professing themselves to be wise, they became fools.
23 And they changed the glory of the incorruptible God into the likeness of the image of a corruptible man and of birds, and of fourfooted beasts and of creeping things.
24 Wherefore, God gave them up to the desires of their heart, unto uncleanness: to dishonour their own bodies among themselves.
25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.
26 For this cause, God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature.
27 And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts, one towards another: men with men, working that which is filthy and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error.
28 And as they liked not to have God in their knowledge, God delivered them up to a reprobate sense, to do those things which are not convenient." (Douay-Rheims Catholic Bible; DRCB).

Iris89

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Some Are Unreasonable
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Posted by: iris89 on May 26, 2009 7:03 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some do not want to accept the inspired word of Almighty God (YHWH), the Bible, but that is just as dumb as trying to reject the Law of Gravity because they are governed by both. The last post before this one clearly issustrates this type of thinking:

FIRST, some question and/or fail to comprehend the inspired word of Almighty God (YHWH), the Bible.

The inspired word of Almighty God (YHWH), the Bible has been recognized as the truth for over 3,000 years and over six billion copies of it exist. It is the world's oldest standard, go to:

STANDARDS ARE PROMULGATED NOT PROVEN BUT USED:

linked text

Now what is your problem?

Also, check out the following:

THE BIBLE'S HISTORICITY AND CORRECTNESS TESTIFIED TO BY A "PIM"

linked text

And,

A Corroboration Of The Bible Record By A Babylonian Document Found Near Baghdad:

linked text

And,

Bible Claim of Jewish Occupancy of Palestine Around 900 BC By Jar Handle Find

linked text

And,

Civilization and the Bible

linked text

And,

Ignorance of The Bible Leads Some To Make Foolish Charges

linked text

And, the fulfilled prophecies about Jesus (Yeshua) written well in advance of his arrival prove divine inspiration.

Prophecy About Jesus (Yeshua):

linked text

TWO, Deviant life styles that many need to get out of:

Discourse on the Subject of Adultery:

linked text

Discourse Against Deviant Sex Acts and Need For Repentance:

linked text
GOD'S VIEWS ON DEVIANT SEX AND OUTCOMES IN THE PRESENT

linked text

Child Sexual Molestation's - Two Religious Groups Different Take On The Problem:

linked text

Discourse on Sodomy Always Having Been Wrong:

linked text

THIRD, Women as preachers is okay. For details, go to,

linked text

FOURTH, there is no excuse for calling me untrue names as some do. This is both childish and inappropriate.

See Part Two

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Part Two of Some Are Unreasonable
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Posted by: iris89 on May 26, 2009 7:10 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Part Two of Some Are Unreasonable

FIFTH, "NOW I CHALLENGE OUT TO ONE AND ALL TO SHOW A SINGLE FACTUAL ERROR IN WANY OF MY ARTICLES! Now, Let's start accepting the facts and being objective instead of being none objective and closed minded. I am just the bearer of the truth, the facts, NOT the maker of the facts! I am just a messenger of the truth which all should want if they are honest with them selves in keeping with John 8:32, "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (Authorized King James Bible; AV)."

SIXTH, Atheist are a class of pyrrhonist skeptics that are unreasonable; whereas, pragmatic skeptics are reasonable and forward looking. Let’s look at this in some detail:

Unbelieving Atheist Do Not Want to Accept Reality

linked text

And,

Pyrrhonist Are Circular In Thought And Can Not Learn or Move On

linked text

And,

Skepticism Is Good Up To The Point Reasonableness Is Surpassed:

linked text

And,

Skepticism With a Purpose and Skepticism Without A Purpose:

linked text

And,

Worldly Critics Are Always Seeking to Destroy Reality They Do Not Want to Accept

linked text

And,

The Saga of Unreasonable Ones Who Reject The Inspired Word of Almighty God (YHWH), the Creator of All there is, the Bible:

linked text

And, as usual, none dare to take on my challenge.

Iris89

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What If Jesus Was Gay...?
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Posted by: kanekoa64 on May 27, 2009 1:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Or, what if Jesus was here to stand against you and anyone who would throw stones at Gods Homosexual children? Did God make a mistake when he made them? Or is there purpose to ALL things unto Heaven? You can't have it both ways, just because YOU don't understand the will of God.

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Life Style Changes Required To Win Jesus (Yeshua) Approval
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Posted by: iris89 on May 27, 2009 5:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Life Style Changes Required To Win Jesus (Yeshua) Approval

Some can not grasp truth which is clearly shown by the dumb speculation about Jesus (Yeshua) Christ in the post just before this one.

Life style changes required to win the approval of Jesus (Yeshua) Christ and his Father Almighty God (YHWH), Creator of all there is. Jesus (Yeshua) has held out many benefits for his genuine true followers, but to be a genuine true follower of Jesus (Yeshua) requires that you bring your life in harmony with his Father’s righteous requirements.

FIRST, Let’s consider the fact, the reality, that there is only one true God. Now here are some educational items to consider:

[1] There Is Only One True God

linked text

[2] Sequel to There Is Only One True God

linked text


[3] Almighty God (YHWH) Is Sovereign Over All

linked text


[4] Discourse on The Name of God (YHWH) You Worship Does Matter:

linked text

[5] Discourse on the Word of God Vs. the Unreliable Word of Men:

linked text

[6] Discourse on What God (YHWH) Considers Acceptable Worship:

linked text


[7] Worshippers of False God(s) Do Not Know How To Deal With Context:

linked text

SECOND, Let’s consider the fact, the reality, about Jesus (Yeshua) Christ and his ransom sacrifice for the benefit of all mankind. Now here are some educational items to consider:

[1] DOCUMENTARY ON OUR SAVIOR JESUS (YESHUA):

linked

[2] the Ransom Provided by Christ and Why Necessary:

linked text

[3] DISCOURSE ON WHAT GOD (YHWH) ASKS OF HIS SON'S FOLLOWERS:

linked text

[4]Jesus (Yeshua) Is The Only Begotten Son of God

linked text

[5] Prophecy About Jesus (Yeshua):

linked text


[6] Sent Ones Are Subordinate Ones:

linked text

[7] Who Came To Earth To Live Among Mankind?

linked text

THIRD, Now check out all these educational articles and come to realize why a life change is necessary.

Iris89

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