Why Atheists Have Great Sex

“…varieties of Wicca, Goddess worship, shamanism, Tantra, astrology, chi, chakras, belief in a collective metaphysical consciousness, and other forms of New Age belief and magical thinking permeate it, both privately and publicly.

This troubles me. I am a hard- core atheist/ materialist/ naturalist/ humanist/ skeptic/ whatever you want to call someone who doesn’t believe in any supernatural entities or substances.”

Supernatural is an oxymoron in the English language, and unfortunately a lack of attention to language tends to confuse philosophy. I believe this is why so any philosophic or religious/ideological arguments eventually devolve into semantics. Abiogenesis (origins of life itself) is a question which science seems far from answering without even touching on the idea of consciousness or will, which are equally mysterious questions in a deterministic/material universe.

I firmly believe that there is no supernatural, at all. Yet I think that consciousness and life are aspects of this material universe, and we continually increase our scientific understanding of them. With sufficient advances in technology we may even conceivably render time and space, even our bodies, irrelevant. I believe our only limitations are those of imagination, understanding, desire and our ability to resist fear. How much space does an idea require? How much flesh? We are constantly reducing the amount of space and matter required for computer data storage and processing. We are constantly increasing the speed of processing that data. Only a few years ago a photon was frozen, and they were already talking about quantum computing, and just a year or two ago I read that they have already built those computers. Our scientific breakthroughs are marching along at a telescopic/exponential rate - allowing for technology which is still withheld from the public. I believe that consciousness and imagination could be considered forces of nature, potentially capable of diverting stars from their paths. It is a simple fact that we are products of this universe, therefore products of nature. Therefore at least part of this universe is conscious. If electrochemistry can give rise to human consciousness, and the known universe proves to be a veritable cauldron of electrochemistry, then it follows that far higher and less materially significant forms of consciousness (assuming we would recognize it) , and the necessary mechanics which would make it possible, may be yet await discovery.

Supernatural is a word that is mutually exclusive all by itself, and yet there are real phenomena which cannot be quantified (matter literally means ‘to measure) or which tend toward progressive material insignificance. It is wrong to think of several of the things listed by the author as being 'supernatural' when in fact the followers of most of these ideas see them as utterly natural, and likely could be described in materialistic scientific terms if they were understood. We still have a lot of interesting questions that are not answered, and I believe the answers are obstructed by the arbitrary distinction between nature (deterministic/materialistic universe and all that is yet to be learned about it) and Supernature, which is a term that basically says that there is something above and beyond 'everything that we know, and everything we don't know' (all that is) - as in the idea that there are 'many universes in the universe'. I’ve heard it said that “sufficiently advanced technology would appear as magic". I’ll go one better. “Sufficiently advanced technology would appear as biology"

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We don't need magic when consciousness, understanding, and imagination, and desire seem to consistently bring 'all things into the realm of possibility' (Einstein). If something 'is' it must be natural, and if it seems unnatural (another oxymoron) then it says more about our lack of understanding of wha tever natural mechanism is operating than of the phenomena itself. Even the concept of 'God' needs no twisting of language such as 'supernatural’, because it is only a matter of proper language to say that if God did exist, and had a truly objective understanding of natural law, then it would be 'in the nature of things' for such a supreme consciousness to be able to exploit those laws at will, much as a sailor accepts that he can't control the wind or stars, but through desire, imagination, understanding, and courage, uses them to accomplish his will.

As for the topic of this article, I believe that transcendent sex (the truly best sex) comes when a person is able to trust themselves to their partner (faith? Oh no!), and submit to abandonment of ‘self’. It appears to me that sexual desire is primordial, an animal instinct, a hunger to seek dissipation of 'self' while simultaneously consume and assimilate the ‘other’. In a way I see it as similar to death - yet not lifelessness, but rather being open to sensual and truly objective experience without judgment – to ‘know’ in the often overlooked and utterly profound ‘Biblical sense’. Not academic knowing, but knowing through experience, of knowing ‘even as we are known’. "It is judgment that defeats us." (Col. Kurtz).

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when they climax? Ahh...their own name!!! I get it! ;-)

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I'm forwarding this to some of my humanist friends as a starting point for further discussions. I hope this will become a discussion topic at both of the humanist groups that I belong to in the Washington, DC area.

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The word "religion" includes a huge variety of human interractions, most of them directly related to the tribalism that has evolved for thousands of years. There is very little difference between natives dancing around a campfire deep in the Amazon and a session at the most palatial local church. We use our manmade gods to justify and legitimize our ideas and behavior, and God help any who disagree with us.

I used to take a live-and-let-live stance toward religion, but this human penchant for embracing irrationality now threatens to destroy the entire planet. That's why it's so sad to see the U.S. president and other heads of state genuflecting to religious leaders -- some of them ignorant buffoons -- merely to show their "respect for" (actually fear of) religion. Unless humanity can get past this tendency to create gods and other supernatural forces, what's left of us will soon be living in caves again. Maybe the survivors will learn to live as rational beings -- but I doubt it.

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...who despite claiming atheism (as I do), still clings to puritanical moralizing to judge women and disempower them sexually. After all, good girls don't do it outside of marriage--only whores do!

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I find it interesting that both religious and non-religious groups feel the need to defend their beliefs vis a vis who is the most "anything." There have been individuals throughout history from both groups who have contributed significantly, both positively and negatively, to thought, art, justice, the human condition. Individual motivation is not the problem. The arrogance of supposing that anyone is the repository of absolute truth
denies the potential for growth inherent in diversity.

As to who has better sex, I'm glad you're happy whoever you are.

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Well ~ that was all very interesting ;-)

As a former extreme fundamentalist Christian, I used to believe that sex could only be rightly enjoyed between a man and his wife ~ and even that pleasure was only God-approved if the couple eschewed birth control and left it totally up to God as to whether their union would result in the creation of a new life.

A "queer spanking fetishist who neither has nor wants kids" ~ I'd have felt so sorry for this person who was obviously missing out on "God's best."

I lived my life "by the Book" for over 25 years ~ had seven kids, homeschooled, dutifully submitted to and supported a controlling, abusive husband ~ I was so committed to following God that I was willing to lose my life for His sake ~ and I nearly did on several occasions because bearing children never came easy for me.

It took a year-long email correspondence with my atheist uncle ~ plus having my oldest daughter end up in the psych ward after she tried to kill herself ~ to wake me up to the absolute insanity of my religious beliefs.

I am no longer married to the misogynistic asshole who made us all hate our lives, I am no longer ordering my life according to the teachings of an ancient book of patriarchal sheep herders, I am No Longer Quivering.

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I have long taken the position that, at least with respect to this world (in the context of the rest of the universe, NOT some 'netherworld'), everything is 'natural', including everything conceived/devised/made by humans simply because we have the 'natural' (innate? inherent? - choose whatever word(s) you like - they, too, are 'natura'l) ability to conceive/devise/make such thoughts, beliefs or things. For what it's worth, I too, believe there is no god and I, too, marvel at the exquisite nature of all things. (Sure is hard to describe something by its own term but that's the best I can do with only one espresso this early!).

To touch briefly on a comment in one of Ms. Christina's links, we atheists have an unfettered reason to live our lives in harmony with others - perhaps even more so than those who profess to be religious. Consider the fact that we have no ethereal god to protect against infidels who have their own gods to protect - and so on. One less burden to carry - defending one's 'religion'. To the extent one should believe in a god, let it be that which is characterized by Gary Larson - you know, the one making snakes, etc. out of clay and having a 'devilishly' good time at it ;>)

Best wishes to all

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While we only have a sample of one. The conclusion is, have the best sex and bang yourself out of the gene pool. If we all follow this enlightened path we could make the world a better place. We could get rid of that nasty human gene pool. In my view two-dimensional thinking is what makes me human. It has always amazed me that the old ones would write; “eating the fruit from the tree of knowledge would not make you a God”. What did they know they never had that much knowledge of this dimension anyway? When we have eaten all the fruit and have all the knowledge of this dimension and have become masters of the universe, will we happily live our life cycle like all the other organisms in the universe or will we bang our selves out of the universe? Hedonism is a school of philosophy, which argues that pleasure has an ultimate importance and is the most important pursuit of humanity.

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Given the right chemical cocktail, the right magnetic fields or the right electrical stimulation to the brain I can reproduce exactly every 'transcendental' feeling someone has. If that's the case then it's not transcendental any more than putting baking soda and vinegar together is a lava flow from a volcano.

You can wrap it up in any fancy costume, prop, tradition, religion or other mumbo jumbo you want but it's all just biology at work.

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Great article. It's good to read something sane written about sex for once (or about anything for that matter). When you say:

"...taking advantage of the joyful experiences it has to offer, suddenly becomes a whole lot more important. It’s almost a moral obligation."

Just take out the word "almost" and you've got it exactly right.
Or as the last rational philosopher put it:

"The purpose of morality is to teach you, not to suffer and die, but to enjoy yourself and live."

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"We are the cousins of everything that lives on this planet, with a common ancestor of primordial soup going back billions of years . . . and we are all related, not entirely but substantially, because of sex."

One can't be controlling or powerful or exploitative if one recognizes this, and if there's one thing that's anathema to the powerful and their devotees, it's equality.

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I read in an English novel of a marriage under the Anglican church in which part of the service that is read by the priest says that it would be better that people do not indulge themselves at all but Marriage allows it by sufferance. Not having been a communicant I can't verify that first hand but I heard during my childhood similar comments from teachers .

Adding to passages in the text about the Lord not suffering women and Paul the great founder of the actual church's bachelorhood and general
hostility to sexual practice it is a wonder good Christians have any fun at all. Unitarians
and other liberals always display some sort of embarasment.

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Well I feel sorry for you.

Its funny , in an age where we accept the Quantum Theory...ie a Fourth dimension and Law of Conservation of Energy and so forth, we can't seem to apply this to ourselves and our lives, as if all of this stuff somehow had nothing to do with us, only with "things"

We still live back in a 17th Century Newtonian world of "things and objects".

When Albert Einstein was asked to explain what E=mc2 meant to him personally, his answer was very interesting, he said " E=mc2 was a spiritual experience that I managed to express mathematically"

Yet we know that this "vapor" that Einstein cooked up is very real.

Lastly as humans we also make the mistake that "thoughts and feelings" are somehow our proprietary right, that as a species , only humans can think and feel. Wade Davis and David Suzuki both called this view, "Anthropo-centric".
In most of the Indigenous cultures around the world including the Aborigines of Australia, it is their understanding that " thoughts and feelings" are a dimension on there own and are not exclusive to the human domain, they enter human awareness, can posses someone and can also destroy someone as well as be a great benefit
It is this particular brand of unconsciousness that CG Jung found repulsive in the European/ Western outlook.

It is only we in the Western world with our typical hubris and arrogance , believe that the world is a playground or shopping mall where you go out and exploit it for your egotistic enjoyment.

The author is speaking to an audience via the "Unspoken Religion"...full of half baked unconscious assumptions and beliefs that when carefully scrutinized, are as irrational and idiotic as any mainstream religion can be.
Yet believed in they are, in a world where there in US/ human beings/Me/Myself and I and the rest of the world is a "thing" .
How tragic, vacuous and sad.

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I'm a conservative Christian man, married to a conservative Christian woman. Found the article interesting, in a doofy sort of way.

I mean, how the heck can anybody know whether theists or atheists have better sex? The assumption that one group or the other is missing out is just that--an assumption, and a rather silly one at that. I'd never presume to say that gettin' it on Godless-style is no fun. I couldn't possibly know.

I always figured atheists favored a hardcore, evidence-based, just-the-facts approach to life. Which makes the central claim of this article seem kinda ridiculous.

BTW, I jes' love sex! Why do you think I was so eager to read this article? I suppose there are religious people who hate getting busy, but I've not met very many of them. And based on my personal experience, I know at least two Baptists who are pretty darn good at it!

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I strongly disagree. I live in San Diego where piousness contests with sanctimony and atheists are either burned at the stake or exiled to Tijuana.

See, I'm Roman Catholic and love oral which to me is Transubstantiation all over again.

And when I cry out in unadulterated sexual pleasure the image that strikes like lightning through my loins is of Saint Theresa in Her ecstasy.

I am also an avid sports fan who roots like mad for the San Diego Chargers, so don't even mention your godless Oakland Raiders or SF 'Niners because I'm also into Mixed Martial Arts and know how to kick butt.

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As a Hindu Brahmin, I find this article completely laughable. In our culture, we don't go kablooey on sex unlike you atheists. Thanks for making me feel even prouder to be a strict Hindu Brahmin.

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You're in the presence of your future.

How's your funkentelechy?

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This is a pretty phenomenal piece by Richard Dawkins on the topic.

I dunno man. I've got a bio degree, I've got no doubt about evolution, I've studied neuroscience and am fascinated by it. I understand that you can poke a brain in the right spot and thusly change the person's awareness, drives, actions. But even beyond all the infinite magic and majesty of the human body, I'm disturbed at the concept of so many people, their stories so long and complex, their lives full of struggle, virtue and vice. And that they all go into the blackness, the void of unbeing, like a candle snuffed or a sand-painting swept from the floor.

Just people? What about the dogs, the cats, the dinosaurs, the parrots, the trees? Why should my conception of a preserved soul be so anthropocentric?

I go to church, but I don't like much of what they say there. I go because it focuses me, gives me a ritual, a place to meditate and commune.

I agree that your perspective on the joy of sex is a good one, and I'd hope that many religious people could share it! I sure do. I don't see it as exclusively an atheist one, at all.

I dunno, man. My arguments for the supernatural are simple: one is that the very fact of the existence of anything is itself irrational. Either everything is eternal and has always existed (which doesn't make sense) or everything spontaneously sprang into being (which also doesn't make sense), so your only possibilities are each supernatural in nature.
My other argument is the fact of consciousness. It's unnecessary for function- we could be computers or calculators and carry out all the same evolutionarily adaptive (or maladaptive) behaviors. To say that consciousness, the quality of awareness, is an emergent property of the interaction between neurons, is a lacking explanation. Emergent properties- i.e. the dipole of a water molecule- always draw logically from an interaction of the properties of their parts. What's necessary or logical about consciousness?

" ... and it seemed to be a matter of wandering through room after room of my brain looking for the owner and not finding him anywhere, sweat broke out on my forehead, it was becoming desperate because I was running out of rooms and the Padre was still watching me.
"Nobody home," I said finally, sure that the answer wasn't good enough.
"That's odd," he said. "Who's conducting the search?""
-Illuminatus! Trilogy, R.A. Wilson

These ideas tell me nothing about god. But they derive, from no assumptions, Cartesian-style, the existence of the supernatural. And that's a good start.

Historically the church has been the home of turds and charlatans who would sell the people visions of Rock Candy Mountain to get 'em to comply with the boss man's whip. Ain't no denyin that. So I see atheism as a good social movement, away from a traditional form of oppression, and I applaud it.

I just don't necessarily think it's true.

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Nicely done as usual. This link is a classic regarding the possibilities of sex as biologically based but still with the potential for non supernatural transcendence. (Yes, I know it has that 'tantra' word in it, but just ignore that ;-)


http://www.tantra.org/basis.html

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The kind of "materialism" that Greta is talking about also makes it possible for humans to really own their own shit. That's important because as an ex-religionist I have 40+ years of observing that people most often invoke the "supernatural" or the "spiritual" because of an unwillingness (or incapacity) to own their own shit.

This is one of the flaws I see in a lot of progressive thought too, the itch to have to include the supernatural in order to legitimate something. David Korten's wonderful book The Great Turning falls down flat when he goes into a three chapter long diatribe about how intelligent design of all bloody things is a vital part of a mature spiritual consciousness. At that point the old guy lost me. I've been around long enough to know the shine-on from the hard-on and I'm sorry if that offends Mr. Korten and the other weak minded 'merkaaner simps but when you own your shit you own your arousal. You don't give it away to some mumbo jumbo'd nonsense because it suits your white cultural sensibility or whatever. That's frakked.

Earth never lies. People do. There is profound ecstasy in what is right here in front of us. Own that. Never give it away to some bullshit Beyond.

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Oh Scientific Method! Math! Chemical Chance!

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The title "Why Atheists Have Better Sex" that this piece originally had was not my title. My original title of this piece was "A Skeptic's View of Sexual Transcendence." AlterNet changed the title to "Why Atheists Have Better Sex", and then changed it again on my request. I do not, in fact, think atheists have better sex than religious or spiritual believers, and in any case I don't think it's a competition. Just so y'all know. Thanks.

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All I can say is that this dude is repressed by trauma.

He talks about sex in way spiritual terms and throws a evolutionary cloak over it. Why can't evolution also be a spiritual/moral process at the same time? C'mon, I know you can do it, be nondual. That's what yer screaming about anyway.

We like to be angry at other people's perceived wrongness.

Regardless of the righteousness, definitions all point to the same thing. Thanks for clarifying it.

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were performed on me, an atheist, by a born-again Christian girl.

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Its one of the benefits we enjoy from, not allowing religion to hinder our imagination. And it doesn't stop there, when you can be free from religion, everything is great, the world is a much more positive place. Religion = oppression, suppression, control, etc.

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This is the most ridiculous article to come down the pike in a while on this site. Assertion, followed by purely theoretical argument, no evidence presented... hmmmm, sounds familiar... I remember now, it sounds like exactly what atheists say religious people are doing - without knowing very much about what religious people actually do or say, and making the kind of argument from pre-existing preference that science abhors.

Anyway, every one knows that South Philly Catholics have the best sex. They don't worry, they just do it and then tell the priest, if they feel like it. Come on, what is this garbage? Humans have great sex and crappy sex in every town, every religion, every nook and cranny of the earth. On top of cars, in the choir robing room, on a bench by a river. Great sex is all about mutual passion and trust. People who believe in God are also quite capable of that, you know. I'm not saying that some odd birds with distorted theology haven't ruined sex for a lot of people, but if you think atheists don't know how to have bad, abusive, stupid sex... you don't know my relatives and ancestors very well.

Can we get over this absurd obsession with religion? Man, you atheists are way more interested in religion than most of the churchgoers I know. Hmmmmm.....

Peace y'all

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"I think we can see sex as a physical act , and still see it as an act that connects us intimately, not only with ourselves and with one another, but with all of life, and with the expanse of history, and with the vastness of the universe.'

ARE YOU LISTENING TO WHAT YOU ARE EVEN SAYING?

ALL THAT TALK ABOUT "CONNECTING WITH ALL OF LIFE, AND WITH THE EXPANSE OF HISTORY."

THAT'S THE SAME KIND OF NON-SENSE THAT YOU SAY YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN!

We don't connect with anything else but the person we are having sex with, period. But I like the spanking part!

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I've noticed that the people who have the best sex all have bodies. I have a body. I have had the best sex I've ever had. I am enjoying having a body.

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Ms Christina,
By "connecting with all living things" as you wrote this reader gets your point in a metaphorical, 6 degrees of separation, non-metaphysical sense.
When will some folks learn that language is yet another tool derived by the human brain?
And that it's offshoot, logic, is limited, as Kant taught us, to _experience_.
And more to the point, all language is symbolic; symbols tend to be absolute, and when we discourse in symbols we all too often tend to fall into the anti-experiential trap of believing that our _conclusions_ in "symbols" or symbolic language are absolute...
"The map is not the territory," Korzybski warned us.
I tend to believe we put language to its purest use when we use it to express our feelings and our perceptions. Beyond that, all we can use language for is salesmanship (to persuade you to accept my "goods" or my "gods").
As you sagely wrote, what were my probable-istic chances of coming into existence as a human being before and during my parents' act of coitus? Slender, very slender. But it is that un-likely--if not random--result which compels me, in following my empathic/tribal impulse, to understand the joy/pain/struggles of others and let each man enjoy his finite moments of ecstasy without my interference...
Then we die and our atoms re-join the cosmic brew. No teleology, no theology, no metaphysics, no linguistic mumbo-jumbo. No manipulative symbol-word games.
"Man makes himself," assuming he understands the chthonic pull (endorpin-based conditioning, actually) of the atavistic, survival impulses (sexual, tribal, territorial/acquisitive, religious, sado-masochistic, revenge, etc.) embedded in his evolutionary, simian brain.
And until our culture strips the taboo nature from the study and understanding of many of these impulses, we will remain the slaves of these easily-reinforced/conditioned impulses.
Till then, Greta, spank on, spank on...

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I use to hold with the view that atheists enjoyed sex a great deal more than their religious counterparts, since they were by and large, more uninhibited and less sexually oppressed, but I've had to adjust my thinking to reflect the reality--to wit, there are many more religious nitwits than atheists, ergo, they out produce us and must perforce enjoy sex more than atheists. As an atheist, I'm forced to accept this "reasonable" conclusion.

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just not know. I'm just not that smart. I'll keep looking. I can't think of anything except stupidity that destroys sex.

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